Lindsay Clancy Case: Husband's Timeline INCONSISTENT?

That would have been sometime around 5.18 or 5.20 p.m. that you should have arrived at CVS, correct? Right. But you don't go in until 5.32 p.m., correct? I don't know. Are inconsistencies arising in Patrick Clancy's story? Is what the date was? It's January 24th at 5.24. And that was sent from your service, bro? I don't know, actually. It could have been sent from a headphone. We're breaking down a complete timeline, where Patrick Clancy was and when, the day his ex-wife killed their kids. This is Scandal, presented by Law & Crime. I'm Sierra Gillespie. The Lindsay Clancy case is taking the world by storm. The facts of this case, that three young children were strangled to death by their mother, are disturbing and devastating. But, arguably, the online discourse is now focused more on Patrick Clancy, Lindsay's ex-husband and the father of her three kids. Online sleuths are now pointing to what they're calling alleged inconsistencies in the timeline, the day of the children's deaths. And there's a long list of things that people are pointing to. For example, the theory of his outfit change, allegedly going from wearing boots and a half-zip jacket at CVS to tennis shoes and a full-zip jacket minutes later. For example, the theory of his outfit change, allegedly going from wearing boots and a half-zip jacket minutes later. But even after that, when Patrick testified he returned home, he said: Patrick Clancy: "I started taking my boots off." And that's just one example. Online discourse also points to the alleged "missing" 15 minutes. One Reddit user wrote: "His timeline, in my eyes, does not add up." The Massachusetts prosecutors went extensively through what his "tasks" were while he was away from the house. Patrick states he left the house at 5:15. He confirms the first stop is CVS. The prosecutors state that CVS is three minutes away from their home. So why did Patrick not appear in the store until 5:32? And out of the store by 5:37? There's 15 minutes that he's unaccounted for. And all of that, by the way, was discussed at length during Patrick's testimony. And so you leave the house, you get into your car, and you drive to CVS, correct? Correct. And so that should have taken three minutes, correct? Yep. So after the text that was sent at 5:15 p.m., that would have been sometime around 5:18 or 5:20 p.m. Right. But you don't go in until 5:32 p.m., correct? I don't know. Also, somewhere in this timeline, there's the discussion about an email sent from Patrick's Surface Pro. We have an email sent from your, is it Surface Pro, is that what it's called? No, it was my laptop, yeah. But the email sent from his laptop was reportedly sent at 5:24 p.m. on January 24th, eight minutes before he ever walked in to CVS. Clearly, there's a lot to unpack. We've had a lot of comments and discussions about Patrick's timeline, so we're going to break it all down for you right now. Let's start with the basics. Lindsay Clancy is charged with three counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of her three children, five-year-old Cora, three-year-old Dawson, and eight-month-old Sam. On January 24th, 2023, Lindsay reportedly used exercise bands to strangle each one of her kids in the basement of her Duxbury, Massachusetts home. She did this while her husband Patrick was allegedly out running errands. After that, she took some crushed-up pills, slit her wrists and neck, and jumped out of a second-story window in an attempt to end her life. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts argues that Lindsay carried out cold and calculated drugs, as well as calculated murders, doing so when she was of sound mind. Her defense, however, argues Lindsay was in the midst of postpartum psychosis, and that she suffered a mental break that led to her killing the kids. This case is interesting, because the defense is arguing Lindsay isn't criminally responsible for murder, but they admit she killed the kids. It's not a classic "who done it?" And yet, the narrative online says that it is. In fact, some people online speculate that Lindsay killed the kids. Patrick Clancy himself murdered the children and even convinced Lindsay that she was the one who did it. These people point to what they say are inconsistencies in his testimony and timeline the day the children were killed, arguing it's proof of their theories. And here's where I have to tell you, Patrick Clancy is not charged in the murders of his children. In fact, he's not charged in this case at all. By all accounts displayed at trial so far, Patrick has been cooperative with Lindsay, he's been supportive with investigators since the day it happened, and honest about what happened too. So as far as we've heard, Patrick was never a suspect in this case, and still trial watchers following this case have questions. So let's take a look at his timeline from start to finish the day the kids died. And for that, we actually have to start one day prior, on January 23rd, 2023. That Monday after her parents had gone home to Connecticut, so Monday the 23rd of January, did Cora and Dawson go to school? Yeah. And do you recall Lindsay picking them up that afternoon? Yeah. When Lindsay returned home with Cora and Dawson, did she discuss with you that Cora was having some stomach issues at school? Yeah. And were you familiar with the stomach issues that Cora had been having? Yeah. And did you have an idea of what was causing those stomach issues? No. Yeah, it wasn't unusual. She was embarrassed to go to the bathroom at school. So she just held it all day. Okay. And so this was a common occurrence? Yeah. This is an important setup for something that comes later. Cora had stomach issues and would later need stool softener, so remember that. Fast forward now to January 24th, 2023, the children's last day. And it begins normally. Were you aware that Cora had her five-year physical scheduled for the next day, Tuesday the 24th? Uh, no. I didn't know that was already scheduled. I thought she, like, called it in and set it up. So, yeah, that's news to me. Okay. So would it have been Lindsay who would make those kinds of appointments, the physicals and all of that? She usually handled that, yeah. Okay. Cora's appointment was at 8:00 AM. Lindsay drove Cora while Patrick stayed home with Dawson and Callan. And while you're with the boys, and Lindsay's with Cora at the doctor's, are you sending text messages and photos back and forth? Yeah. And why did you send a photo of Dawson to Lindsay that morning? Because he dressed himself completely for the first time. And he was excited about that? Yeah. At 8:17 AM, Patrick texted Lindsay this picture of Dawson. One minute later, at 8:18 AM, Lindsay said, "Hey, I'm so excited to see you. I can't wait to see you again." Lindsay sent this photo of Cora in response. Both of these photos, by the way, have been admitted into evidence. And if you want to take a closer look at all the evidence files we've received so far in this case, it's just a click away. For behind every major scandal is a paper trail the public rarely gets to see. If you haven't heard yet, you can go beyond the headlines with case files on the Law & Crime Plus app. This is where you get direct access to the raw evidence, uncensored body camera recordings, crime scene images, video recordings of interrogations, and so much more. You can analyze the facts and uncover the truth for yourself. Plus, you get ad-free streaming of all your favorite Law & Crime & Court TV shows. Unlock the evidence room today. Head over to LawAndCrimePlus.com, enter promo code SCANDAL, and start your 30-day free trial. Now, Patrick says Lindsay's texts and photos that day seemed pretty normal. Well, you were texting with Lindsay back and forth. Um, yeah. Yeah. Were you able to understand her text messages? Yeah. Did she seem to understand yours in response? Yes. This goes to the prosecution's theory that Lindsay was of sound mind the day of the alleged murders and acted with premeditation. But back to the timeline. Did she return home? Yes. And, um, do you recall around what time she got home that morning? 8:30. And once she got home, what did you do? Uh, I think I got ready for work. And, um, while you were downstairs working in your office, um, do you know what Lindsay and the kids were doing? Uh, they built a snowman and they did some art projects. And how did you know this was happening? She texted me a picture. This is the photo that Lindsay texted Patrick while he was inside working and she was outside with the kids playing in the snow. So Lindsay was continuing to text you and send you photographs, um, throughout that day? Yeah. And I went up to say hi at one point. How often do you think you, or do you remember going upstairs that day to interact with Lindsay and the kids? Um, once or twice. It was a busier day than usual. And, um, when you did come out to, um, interact with them, how was Lindsay's mood? She seemed happy. Happy. And how could you tell that? What was she doing? Uh, she was playing with the kids. and she seemed in a good mood at any point during that day when you came up or while she's texting you did she tell you she was having suicidal thoughts no did she tell you she was having thoughts of harming the kids no did she ask for help or or anything that caused concern no she's having one of her best days one of her best days Patrick says there was no indication that Lindsay was having any sort of suicidal thoughts or mental health issues that day he said everything seemed normal the next stop on the timeline comes at 4:53 p.m. did you receive a text from Lindsay about dinner yeah and do you recall what it said something along the lines of do you want to get takeout I haven't planned anything do you recall it saying any chance you want to do takeout from 3v I didn't cook anything it's been a long day yeah I had you been to 3v but restaurant previously yep alone or with the family with the family and approximately how many times had you been there to eat probably three times and so you you had all gotten in the car and driven from your home to 3v restaurant in Plymouth approximately three times yeah sometimes we are already out somewhere but yeah okay but been there three times and I'm Had you ever done takeout from there before? No. At this point, Patrick and Lindsay texted back and forth about the dinner plans and the kids. So Lindsay suggested 3V and you agreed, is that correct? Yeah. Did she send you another text at 4.56 p.m. asking you to take a look at the menu? Yeah. And did you send a text at 5.06 p.m. about Callan? Yeah, I asked if he had taken a nap. And did she respond? Yeah. And what was her response? That it was a shorter nap and he was awake. And at that time, did you also send a separate text asking what she was getting at 3V? Yeah. I don't remember what she ordered. Do you recall a Mediterranean Power Bowl? Yeah, that sounds right. And did she ask you what you were getting? Yeah. At 5.08, Patrick replied saying he planned to get scallop and pork belly risotto. He testified it was Lindsay who called the order into the restaurant. Once the order was placed, what did you do? I came upstairs. I took Callan for a minute and I rocked him by my knees. I kissed Cora on the head. And I still carry it back. And what was Dawson doing when you were leaving? He was eating chicken nuggets on the couch. And do you recall if he was using a bowl or a plate? It was a bowl. Do you remember what the defendant. Well, first of all, where was the defendant seated when you left the house or was she seated? She was standing in the doorway. And where was she? In the doorway of the living room. And. Was that. Was that the doorway by the front door or the doorway by the basement door? It was the doorway by the basement door. Okay. And did she have Callan or where was Callan? She had Callan. Okay. And what was her demeanor? Normal. During Patrick's testimony, prosecutors asked if there were other, closer restaurants Patrick and Lindsay usually got takeout from more often. He said yes, oftentimes they went somewhere in nearby Duxbury as opposed to the 3V restaurant in Plymouth. And the location of the restaurant is really important for the timeline. According to Google Maps, it's 5.7 miles away from the Clancy home. It should take around 11 minutes to get there. But in this case, Patrick didn't go straight to the restaurant. As you're getting ready to leave the house to head out to get the takeout, did Lindsay say anything to you? Nothing specific that I can recall other than maybe goodbye. Do you recall something about discussing something with her? No, I don't remember anything specific that I can recall other than maybe goodbye. Did you say something about CVS with her? Yeah. Okay. And what did she say about CVS? She wanted me to pick up some stool softener for Cora. And she hadn't mentioned that earlier in the text, correct? Yeah, I don't think so. So as you're leaving, she asked you to make a second or another stop while you're out. Is that correct? Correct. Okay. And in response to that request, did you ask her to do something? Um, I don't remember. I could show you page 77, lines 20, 30, and 24, if you could just read those to yourself. Yeah, I told her to text it to me, which she did. I'm sorry, so that will refresh your memory and ask her to text it to you? Yep. And did she do so? She did. And was that at approximately 5:15 p.m. that she texted PDLX? Sounds correct. Of the two stops on this errand run, Patrick says he went to CVS first. And do you remember the route that you took to get there? Yeah, I went out our driveway, took a right on Winter Street, and then took a left on the main road and went to CVS. So it's a pretty direct route from your house to CVS? Yeah. Give me the map. Just going to have you look at the screen, if you would, to a map. Okay. And coming in to this red dot here, is that the approximate location of your home at 47 Summer Street? Yeah. And then looking at this pink dot here next to Big Y, is that where the CVS is located? Yes. And that's the CVS you went to that night? Yes. That's the CVS you went to that night? About how long did it take you to get there? Three minutes. According to Google Maps, the CVS is 1.4 miles away from the Clancy home, just a three-minute drive. And here's where some of the alleged inconsistencies come in. Patrick testified he left the Clancy home at about 5:15. If he went straight there to CVS, he would have arrived by 5:18 p.m. But Patrick doesn't actually go into the CVS until 5:30 p.m. We know that time stamp, because it's caught on the CVS security camera. Online, people are referring to this as the missing 15 minutes. Technically, it would be only 14 minutes, but that's not the point here. Because it's not entirely missing. In fact, we know Patrick sent an email at 5:24 p.m., but once again, things get complicated. So let's start by talking about Patrick's Surface Pro. Here's an explainer from the defense questioning. We have an email from the defense questioning. Here's an explanation. in three minutes, correct? Yep. So after the text that was sent at 5 15 p.m., that would have been sometime around 5 18 or 5 20 p.m. Right. But you don't go in until 5 32 p.m., correct? I don't know. I don't know what time I pulled in the parking lot. I'm not asking what time you pulled into the parking lot, but is it fair to say that the video that you were shown earlier shows you entering the store at 5 32 p.m.? Yes. So from the time you should have been at the parking lot of CVS around 5 20 p.m. until 5 32 p.m., could you have been in your car sending this email on your iPhone? Yeah, I just don't know if I pulled into the parking lot at 5 20. But sometime after the text was sent from Lindsay about PDLX, but before 5 32 p.m., you were in your car. Security camera video. Shows Patrick enter the CVS at 5 32 p.m. on January 24th, 2023. I'm going to ask you to look at the video here. Is that you entering the store? Yeah. And that section you head to on the right, is that the pediatric medication section? Yeah. Okay. And while you're in that section, looking for the medication, do you do something? I called Lindsay. I have to pause to note something important. Pay close attention to what Patrick is wearing. It appears to be brown boots and a half zip jacket. After Patrick heads inside to the pediatric section, he calls Lindsay at 5 33 p.m. Why did you call Lindsay? Because what we were looking for wasn't there. The shelves were pretty empty. It was still during COVID. It was, I'm sorry, what? It was during COVID, so. Okay. So, and was that call at about approximately 5 33 p.m.? Yeah. Okay. And then, did she answer the call? Yes. She entered when you called her? Actually, I think, I think she didn't at first. She called back. Okay. And did you receive a call back from her about a minute later at 5 34 p.m.? Yeah, that's correct. Okay. And, can you describe that phone call for us? It was very brief. I just said, I think there was a generic brand, and I said, is this one okay? And she said, yeah, that's fine. And what was her demeanor during the call? She's pretty quiet. It sounded like she was busy. I remember hanging up thinking she's probably in the middle of giving baths or something like that. So, it sounded to you like she was in the middle of something? Yeah. Were you able to understand her? Did you understand her when she spoke to you? Yeah. And did she seem to understand what you were saying? Yes. And she didn't seem to have any trouble recalling why you were at CVS or what you were looking for? That's correct. Prosecutors allege that when Patrick said Lindsay sounded like she was in the middle of something, she was actually in the middle of killing their children. Patrick left CVS at 5 37 p.m. after purchasing the stool softener and a pack of Skittles. From there, he headed to the hospital. And from there, he headed to the 3-B restaurant. Per Google Maps, that's a 4.5-mile drive. After you had made your purchases at CVS, where did you go next? To 3-B. And do you remember the route you took to get there? Yeah, I think I got on Route 3 South for just, I think, just one exit. And then I got off and went straight to 3-B. And showing you the map again here on the screen. This green dot here on the bottom. Is that where 3V restaurant is located? Yeah. Google suggests it would take about 11 minutes, but Patrick got there in only about seven minutes, arriving at 5 54 PM. And when you got to the 3V restaurant, did you go inside? Yeah. I'm just going to ask you to watch the video on the screen. At 5 54, 15 PM, is that you coming in behind that other couple there? Yeah. And what are you doing at that point when you're looking at the bags? I think I was looking for the bag with my name on it. This security camera video shows Patrick entering the 3V restaurant. Eagle-eyed viewers suggested Patrick has changed his jacket and his shoes. It now appears he's wearing a full zip jacket and tennis shoes instead of brown boots. And there are a lot of explanations here. I mean, maybe the security camera video had a different filter or lighting than the CVS. Maybe it just looks like they're different shoes. Or maybe they really are different shoes. I mean, what if Patrick's boots got wet, he had an extra pair of sneakers in his car that he changed into? We don't know what happened, if he was wearing the same shoes or not. But what we do know is that it wasn't addressed in his testimony. But another mystery at the 3V restaurant was addressed. Do you recall what you're doing on your phone at that time? Um, I don't. It could be work-related. It could be anything. Once again, the Commonwealth points to Lindsay's alleged sound mind leading up to the children's deaths that she was able to successfully order food off the menu. And the order that was listed under your name and phone number, correct? Uh, I think Lindsay ordered it. Right. Do you recall whose name it was under when you picked it up? I don't recall specifically, but it could have been mine. Show your receipt here from 3V restaurant, um, for Mediterranean Power Bowl and scallop and pork belly risotto. You could just look at the name and the number on the receipt. Yeah, that's my name and my number. So that's your phone number? Yeah. Okay. So although the defendant called in the order, your name and phone number were given and were given accurately. Is that correct? Correct. After he picked up the food, Patrick headed home. Once again, per Google Maps, that's 5.7 miles. And do you recall the route you took home? Um, probably the same route. Uh, one exit on the highway and then went home. Okay. Um, do you recall approximately how long it took you to get home? I would guess, um, 10 to 12 minutes. Okay. when you arrived home um where did you park in the driveway per patrick's own testimony he was wearing boots when he arrived home and then that window on the far left there um is that the kitchen yeah and on the far left of the photo with the um sliding glass doors are where does that lead into there's like a room off of the kitchen where there is a kitchen table when you got home and you parked your truck um how did you get into the home i went in through that side door the door that was um to the left of the kitchen where there was a kitchen table um how did you get into the home i went in through that side door the door that was um to the left of the kitchen where there was a kitchen table um how did you get into the home i went in through that side door the left of the garage yeah and what did you do once you got inside the home um i started taking my boots off and did you have um some bags with you from cvs and 3v yeah where did you place those on the kitchen island it seems like this is the moment where everything changed for patrick when you came into the house and you were taking off your boots and putting things down um was there anything noticed yeah the house was really quiet is that unusual yeah and when you you realized it was really quiet what did you do um i called out and who did you call out to everyone did anyone answer no after you called out and no one answered what did you do next uh. i think i i don't know the order but i called down in the basement and no one answered and then um i called lindsay to see if she was home because i looked out and i i couldn't see her car but it's because it was dark and her car's black okay so when you you say you um you called down to the basement when you approach the basement door do you remember if it was open or shut it was shut so did you open it and yell down and there was no response correct and um i'll show you a photo here is is that a fair and accurate depiction of the stairway down to the basement level yeah you could have this marked as an executed case that may be admitted do you recall when you opened the door to yell down whether the light was on or off yeah it was on but lindsay always left the light on at 6:09 pm patrick called lindsay's cell phone but she didn't answer um and so after you called lindsay and didn't get a response what did you do next i started checking upstairs and where did you check upstairs um first the bathroom i thought maybe they were taking baths um but there's no one there and then where did you go the kids bedrooms was there anyone in the kids bedrooms no um and then did you go to your bedroom yeah and were you able to get into your bedroom right away no the door was locked and that's when i knew something was wrong patrick says he knew something was really wrong when the door to the master bedroom was locked he pushed his way in and came across a shocking scene when you unlocked the door to your bedroom um did you go in yeah and what did you see when you um opened the door and went in i just saw blood everywhere and the window is open and showing you here a photo is this um the bed in your bedroom yeah now the way the bed is in this photo um kind of pulled away from the wall and slightly askew or at an angle is that the way it was typically no and when you left the bedroom that day um for the last time prior to coming home later that night was the bed in that position i don't think so patrick testified the window was open and cold air was coming through it sir um after making those observations in the bedroom what did you do next i ran out of time i ran out of time i ran out of time i ran downstairs and went outside and do you recall um whether you came around whether you went out the front door or the back door i went out the back door so that would be the sliders is that right yeah and where did you go from there i just looked around in the backyard um below that window and i saw lindsey and where did you see her uh she was face up in the backyard and where in the backyard was she at the bottom of the window patrick says he found lindsey directly below the window with severe injuries and did you um observe any injuries yes and what did you see uh she had deep cuts on her wrists um and she had a red line across her neck i wasn't sure what it was at first um but she cut her neck yeah i said what happened and what was her response she said i tried to kill myself did you um ask her anything else i said where are the kids and what was her response she said they're in the basement and at that time she didn't tell you um that they needed help or they were in danger or any or they were injured correct correct patrick isn't sure when he called 9-1-1 but he says it was at some point after he found lindsey i don't know the exact time but it took a few minutes because my phone was switching between wi-fi and 9-1-1 so i almost just started calling out for the neighbors but eventually it went through okay um so you had some difficulty connecting but eventually you connected to the 9-1-1 operator yeah okay and did you stay on the phone with them while they were sending people to respond yeah while you're on um the phone with 911 are they asking you questions and you're responding with information about her condition yeah um and if you could just look at the screen here um i just is this the model of the first floor of your home yes okay and so um we have here um the sliding glass doors um where would the um basement door be in this model directly before below the stairs so now that it's flipped around um is this the door to the basement right here yeah for the record that's the door across from the downstairs bathroom yeah how long approximately and i know you weren't looking at your watch or anything like that but can you estimate for us how long it took um for first responders to arrive four or five minutes okay and um during that time are you continuing to try to talk to lindsay yeah is she responding she's in and out of consciousness okay um was she breathing on her own i believe so okay and um you're communicating information to the 9-1-1 operators and um are they giving you you know advice on how to deal with the situation as it progresses yeah we were court ordered not to record or live stream the 9-1-1 call patrick made that evening only the people inside the courtroom at the time it was played were able to hear it one such person is our director of photography richie morgan stern so the first the call starts off with him talking and kind of having his wife in the background obviously you can't see anything it's just a 9-1-1 call and he's like talking to his wife and you can hear his wife you could tell that she had some liquid in her throat you know like as far as like she was kind of like the way her voice was coming out it was more of like uh it was more sounds than actual words and he's like what do you mean they're in the basement you know and so he heads down to the basement and this is where you just hear that first sound i wouldn't even want to even try and like i couldn't even like want to even try making that sound you know i don't but it's the sound of somebody's heartbreak and that's for sure and he's going through the room and he's talking to dispatch but he doesn't have the ability to actually say full words so you can hear like maybe he says like the first name of his baby and then it's just more like vowel sounds um and it just kind of gets worse and worse and then you hear like him say something along the lines of she killed the babies and then the dispatch is like whoa whoa whoa like what do you mean like you hear the dispatch talking to somebody else in the room around him or something she killed the babies like and then i mean i'd have to say some of us including myself might even like blacked out to like what we are hearing because i'm like having trouble you know recalling some of it because of i can just hear his his primal scream that he was making it really kind of shocks you when you it hits you once um emergency personnel arrive what do you do i immediately got up and ran to the basement okay and um do you have any other questions for me i don't have any other questions do you still have the phone on you you're still on the 9-1-1 call yeah i didn't realize it at the time but i did so when you um come down those stairs um that night which direction did you go i immediately went left and when you went left what did you see i saw cora and how did she look she had a band around her neck and was that an exercise band yeah and um do you recall whether she was um what position she was in whether face up or face down she's face down and um when you saw her in that condition what did you do i immediately ran over and tried to take the band off were you able to get the band off yeah and do you recall how you got the band off i think i untied it and when you say untied it was it in a knot that you had to you know put everything down and unknotted or how how was it tied i'm not sure i fully remember do you recall describing it previously as when you initially tie your shoes but then don't do the bow yeah that sounds right and um was she responsive no and um what did you see or do next i saw callen and where was he he was next to her and um how did he appear he had a band around his neck sorry he had a band around his neck and did you remove that as well yeah and do you recall um what position he was in same as cora and looking at the model here um you could just tell us where was cora the left of the couch so would that be this area here that i'm pointing to in between the bureau and the couch yeah yeah and where was cal to her left so would that be more over here towards the the chair and the bureau yeah after you removed the band um from callen's neck what did you do next i tried to find dawson and um where did you go i looked in the bathroom and um on the other side of the couch and then i went to the other side of the couch and i went to the other side of the couch and then i went to the the other side of the basement and he was in my office. When you saw Dawson, what condition was he in? I knew he was gone. And did he also have a band around his neck? Yeah. And did you remove that band? Yeah. And looking at the office here, where was he located within the office? Just to the left of the door when you went in. Just in this area here right inside the door? Yeah. Patrick testified he was back and forth during this time trying to help all of the kids. Eventually, he says, first responders let him upstairs away from the scene. Cora, Dawson, and Callan removed from the home and taken to a hospital? Yeah. Was that Beth Israel Deaconess in Plymouth? Yeah. Did you also go to that location? Yeah. And at the hospital, were you able to see your children? Yeah. And was Callan then transported to Children's Hospital? Yeah. Dawson and Cora were pronounced dead that day, on January 24th, 2023. Callan was taken off life support days later, on January 27th, 2023. And that is it. Patrick Clancy's entire timeline that we know of, the day of the kids' deaths. And now it's time to dig even deeper into all of this. So let's bring on today's guest, who's been extensively following this case. It's trial attorney Alexis Rosenberg, a friend of the show. Alexis, thank you for coming on Scandal with us today. Thank you for having me. As always. And I have to ask you, I've been kind of surprised going into this trial that so many people are talking about Patrick Clancy and pointing the finger at him. It's just not something I expected. What's your reaction to all that? I have to tell you, when I first heard this, this buzz all over the internet, and I mean, it really has gotten a lot of traction. I mean, if you're on there and people truly believe he did it. And when I first heard it, I was like, you know, this is just people. I'm not able to wrap their brain around something that totally doesn't make sense. How a mother could kill her three young children in the manner that she did. But I got to tell you, once I started doing a little deep dive into the timeline and the different things, I see, I can see where they're coming from. Yeah. And I mean, I tend to agree with you, actually, because at first I was like, wait a minute. Why are people attacking this husband? Who's gone? He's gone through so much. I mean, he found his children. And then when you talk about the changing of the shoes, the missing 15 minutes, there's a lot going on here. So let's talk about that. The thing that people are talking about a lot is the change in the shoes that he was apparently wearing boots at the CVS, which he went to first. And then it looks like he's wearing tennis shoes at the 3V restaurant that he went to, you know, a couple of minutes later. What do you make of that? Do you think that that's decent evidence to prove he changed his shoes? Well, I mean, first of all, we're in Massachusetts. It's snowy. It's cold. It's not unheard of people having other pairs of shoes if one gets wet in their car. But I looked, I kept looking at that video and looking at that video, and I'm not so sure. I'm not 100% that they're different shoes. I think it might be a different angle, a different shadowing on the shoes. You know, some people are saying that it's a whole, it's a different person, that they think it was like a friend of his. But I'm not 100% sure because the video is a little grainy because it's a surveillance video. Yeah, it's tricky. I was zooming in on both of them side by side on my computer, and the CVS is really bright in there. And then the restaurant is a lot more dim, just probably for like the mood lighting of like a cute restaurant at night. So definitely the lighting is different. So that could be it. Maybe they have different security cams that kind of have a different filter. So unclear if they're. The same pair of shoes. If he changed, I know that he did testify when he got home. Okay, I took off my boots, he said. So, okay, if we set the boots, the shoes, the whatever aside, there's something that's pretty glaring that a lot of people just can't get past. And this is the email from the Surface Pro that comes in at 5:24 p.m. Okay, what do you make of this? I mean, he says, oh, I could have sent it from my iPhone. I could have sent it from my cell phone. But the Surface Pro says that it was at his home at the time. So what do you make of that? Well, I know IT expert. However, it's my understanding that just like when you send unless you change it on your iPhone, it's going to say it's sent from your iPhone. Now, obviously, you can change like on my iPhone. It has it has my actual, you know, signature block that I have put in there and on a Surface Pro, I'm going to assume that it's similar. That is factory that it's going to say that it's from the Surface Pro and it is not, you know, unless you alter that, I don't know. Anybody, I guess it's not impossible to put on your phone as sent by from the Surface Pro. I don't know why you would do that. It doesn't make any sense. So, I mean, that that is a little suspicious. I mean, he could have had the Surface Pro in the car, but that wasn't his testimony. And then sent it like through a hotspot, you know, the email from his Surface Pro in the car. But that once again, it's that's not his testimony. You know, so it does conflict. We also have to take into consideration, you know, this is a very traumatic, even though a lot of people are upset that they feel like he wasn't reacting the way they thought he should on the stand. But it is a very traumatic situation. And when people are coming out of or in a traumatic situation, their memory may not be specific, like with the boots saying boots. It's kind of like people saying soda and calling everything coke. Right. So, I mean, was he is that what he refers to? I don't know. But that is I'm not sure why the police didn't investigate that, because that really does affect the timeline. OK, I have to ask about this, too, because so many people are pointing to the Surface Pro, the missing 15 minutes. And we saw this on Patrick's redirect where the prosecutor was kind of going back and forth and talking about he was like, I don't know what time I pulled into the driveway or the parking lot of CVS. And she's like, OK, but you didn't go in until 532. Right. But this email was sent at 524. They kind of went back and forth and he was like, I'm not sure what time I went in. Now, there's a couple of things that could go into this. I mean, one, you mentioned the trauma. This was a really devastating day for him. Maybe he blocked things out to this is three and a half years ago at the time when he's going to CVS. He's thinking he's just going to pick up some stool softener and he got some Skittles. Like for me, the last time I went to CVS, I don't know how long I was there, what time I walked in, etc. Obviously, we have the timestamps because of the security cam. But do you think the three and a half years of it all? Plus the trauma could make his testimony, I don't want to say inconsistent or unreliable, but difficult to remember back to that exact moment? Well, Sierra, every time you go to CVS, you don't stop and look at the clock when you go in and out. I can't say I do. In general, I mean, overall, not just this situation, any time as attorneys we have witnesses and we have a time, you know, a big time gap, their recollection isn't going to be as strong as closer in time. And that's humans in general. That's not whether there's a traumatic situation or not about that. So saying that he doesn't know what time he pulled up to CVS and what time he left CVS, that that doesn't cause any concern. Now, if he was sitting in the car for 15 minutes, maybe he didn't know he was sitting in there for 15 minutes. But you should he should be able to testify. Yeah, I pulled up and I sat there for a couple of minutes and listened to music because it was a stressful situation. I got on the laptop that I brought in the car, the Surface Pro and sent out an email or whatever it is. Now, obviously, if it was like two minutes where you're just kind of, I don't know, you know, getting yourself together that you may not remember in that situation. But the missing 15 minutes, that's what people are going back to, because to your point, I mean, maybe it took a hot second to get out of the car. If it's cold, maybe he's putting on a jacket. Who knows what's going on? If it's two minutes, whatever. But 15. Is a pretty big time gap. And a lot of people online are saying, what was Patrick Clancy doing in those 15 minutes? Is he somehow responsible for what happened to the children? And I'm not saying that's the case. I'm just saying that's what people are saying online. So I have to wonder why didn't investigators take a closer look at the 15 minutes? Would that have been a red flag for you? Well, I mean, online, they're saying because it's Massachusetts, but I mean, here's the thing. His timeline is very, the whole timeline is important, but also ruling him out. The police need to rule out the father, the husband in the situation and ruling them out. Yeah, they need to make that timeline. That timeline is very important. And it doesn't seem that there has really been an explanation for the timeline because also the timeline related to the actual murders. It's a pretty tight timeline in itself. Um, so ruling out. You know, what may have been other factors? I mean, it could simply have been, uh, and we don't know, there hasn't been testimony as full disclosure about this, but it couldn't have been, he was in the house for maybe the first of the murders. Um, and, and he didn't, obviously we're not saying that he knew this was going on necessarily, but he was in the house for that and that would play into the timeline, but that missing 15 minutes. wrote it off as maybe there was a little more traffic or something of that nature, we really haven't gotten a clear explanation as to that 15 minutes. And I also have to wonder too, I mean, we as internet sleuths or people who are watching this, we can go back, rewind in the live stream. We can watch all of these clips. We can really dissect it and take a closer look. But the jurors, the ones who are going to decide Lindsay Clancy's fate, they are instructed specifically, you can't watch the news about this. You can't do any outside research. They also, I mean, they did do the jury view, but beyond that, you can't go driving to the CVS and clocking on your phone how long it'll take. None of that stuff is allowed. So I have to wonder while the online community is talking about all of this, do you think the jurors are even kind of clocking this is going on? I don't know that they're clocking it to this extent, especially like the shoes and all of those various things. I think that the timeline they're going to, I do think there's. There is going to be discussion about the timeline. And even if it's not necessarily having to do with what's required to prove, you know, this case or, you know, find her not guilty by insanity, but out of curiosity, because even myself, and I'm sure you did the same thing, this timeline is really tight. I mean, it's extremely tight. And her attorney has kind of gotten into that. There was, you know, he was asking about the fact that Patrick had traveled before. Patrick had gone off with one of the children before. That there was a lot of opportunity for this to take place, the killing of these children. Now that kind of is like counter to the argument that she basically snapped and killed, right? Because that kind of sort of he's balancing between like it was planned and he's knocking out that, that, you know, first degree intentional murder aspect of it. By saying, listen, if it was planned, then she could have done it these, all these other, these other times. So that kind of not goes more towards, she was snapping, she snapped. But the timeline to, when you break down the no DNA, I mean the, the timeline with the fact that to be able to kill three human beings and this short period of time, and then to slit her neck and cut her wrist, move a bed and jump off the bed. Jump out of a window and be laying there for a while. That's, I mean, that now to say, we're trying to make sense. We're right. We're doing a timeline for somebody who had what I believe, I do believe she snapped and, and I think to try to put, you know, sanity to something that's insane, does it work? Because if you have someone who snapped and they're manic and they're doing this, yeah, I guess it could fit into that timeline, but it's a tight timeline. Yeah. And you know, I, I have thought about that because I've covered a lot of true crime cases. You have to, I've had you on many times. And I always talk about strangulation being so intimate because first of all, you have to be very close between the perpetrator and the victim. But second of all, it isn't instantaneous, like a gunshot to the head. It takes time. You have to do it consistently. I believe it's five to eight minutes. So that's three children. And then after that, like you said, move the bed, jump out the window, slit the wrists, all of those things. Very tight timeline. And you brought up Kevin Reddington, her defense attorney, and he's kind of said from the beginning, you know, she did this, but she's not criminally responsible. That's their whole theory here. You know, she didn't know what she was doing. She snapped at the time it was psychosis. But do you think if there actually was enough proof about Patrick Clancy that he would change things up? I mean, we saw this, there was a TikTok of a woman who worked at McLean who talked about, you know, the different staffing around the holidays, et cetera. He's trying to have her included as a witness now. So do you think if there actually was enough evidence against Patrick, he would switch things up? You know, I don't know that he would, and you mean go try for a complete acquittal? I guess if there's enough evidence that's coming out, he could switch and say that, you know, ask for a complete not guilty. The issue is that I think that's going to be hard for the jury because like you just brought up, Ciara, very good point. They're not hearing the stuff. So they only have what's in front of them and they're not, they don't have all this other noise. So I don't know to switch a jury like that midway is going to be really difficult because it's already been presented to them that, that she did it. I mean, to the point where, you know, Kevin Reddington was trying to get the prosecution to stipulate to the fact that she did it and they were saying that they weren't going to cause they wanted all this gruesome stuff put out in front of them. of the jury, which they wouldn't be able to. So, but there's also the individual that's bringing up the point that, uh, on the internet that, and I don't remember his name that said, like, for instance, that Patrick said that she said that kids were in the basement, but her windpipe there's, you know, now the testimony has come out that her wind, you know, there was, was compromised and she wasn't able to talk to anybody. So how was she able to talk to him? And then we all, you know, we also have, um, I mean, there just is a lot of inconsistencies in his story and I, I'm having a hard time believing that he did this and I'm not even sure he knew the, um, the now wife. I think they met after the fact, you know, they're trying to make it was for her. And I just don't. And some people are saying, you know, the friend was part of it and he was the one that was walking in CVS and into the, the, um, restaurant. And, and I just, I think that we're trying to, and I think there's definitely inconsistencies in this, in his story for sure. But I also think this was very traumatic, but I think that we're really trying to take someone who had mentally snapped and we're trying to say, okay, an, an individual who was saying it would have taken, like you said, eight minutes to do this. And I want to compare it to someone like you here, like under extreme stress, like there's a child under a car and all of a sudden a mother can lift the car. Nobody can explain that, right? There's no, she didn't, it wasn't like she's training to lift cars and she was an iron man. She just does that in that moment. Um, her body allows her to do that. And, and, you know, so I think that might be the situation here. I mean, they're bringing up the watch too, right? That she, the watch was taken off. She slid her wrist. So, I mean, I guess she could have left the watch on to slit her wrist, but I, I mean, it makes more sense. And I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think it makes more sense. It's on your wrist. You're going to take the watch off, right? I mean, there's so many different avenues that you can go down. I mean, you brought up like three different potential conspiracy theories that people have here. And I think you're right. It's just that everybody's trying to make sense of it all. And I guess I'm going to ask you this last question because I had a viewer just reach out to me and she was talking about some of the conspiracies, talking about how she thought maybe Patrick did it. And she said, I just haven't seen anywhere where they've said that Lindsay did it. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't And I replied and said, well, opening statements, they said that. And the plea itself that she's not criminally responsible. Kevin Reddington is admitting Lindsay Clancy did this, but she wasn't criminally responsible because the allegation that she had postpartum psychosis at the time. So if viewers who are watching all of this are confused about that, do you think it's going to be difficult for the jury to wrap their minds around it? I know that they're, you know, doing their due diligence and they're of course going to have jury instructions, but is it going to be complicated when it comes time for deliberations? Well, they're going to get an instruction. I mean, not guilty by reason of insanity is difficult for jury all over to wrap their head around. I mean, because let's face it, most people that are in prison have mental illness. So that, you know, that's a hard concept, but there's going to be jury instructions. And hopefully in closing, Kevin is going to go through this as part of his closing argument. I'm going to assume because he's a very good attorney. Uh, but the key is not guilty, right? Not guilty. So it's like, and then the second part is by reason of insanity. So I, this is going to have to be cleared up on closing. And I definitely think Kevin Rennington is going to do that. Yeah. I mean, I'm getting ahead of myself going into deliberation already. Cause we're not even in the defense's case in chief, but I'm interested to see how this shakes up. And I know you've been covering this from the start. So Alexis, I'd love to have you back on as this case progresses and we can dive even deeper into the details. I would love to do that. We'll continue to follow this case and bring you the latest updates right here on scandal and for the complete live coverage of the trial, make sure to tune into law and crime where we're streaming the case with gavel to gavel coverage. And that is where today's episode of scandal leaves us for now. If you like what you saw and you want to see more connect with me on social media, you can find me on places like Instagram at Sierra Gillespie. Thanks for watching today's episode of scandal. As always, I'm your host, Sierra Gillespie, and I'll see you next time.