Linda Perry

You know, I'm hard in the studio because when I see potential in somebody, I want them to know about it. I want them to bring it out, you know, I want to help them bring it out. But what I do is I got your clothes on, I got her clothes on, I got their clothes on, I'm fucking loaded up with clothes, I'm drowning, I'm suffocating, and underneath it all, I forgot what I was wearing. How you doing? I'm good. You always have. Can I say? Go for it. You always have the best hats. I'm a hat guy. You know that. No, you're a trucker hat, baseball hat guy. I am. I am a hat person. This is a hat. I do have real hats, and I wear them when I dress up. The hats are funny for me because when I was a kid, I used to run around with a big sombrero. And you know, like when you're five years old and you have like a sombrero like this big, and I loved it. And they would just fall over my face and I would wrap things around my head. I tried to go to school with towels wrapped around my head because I love that Carmen Miranda look. You know, it's my mom's Brazilian and I was raised on, you know, a lot of Bostonovac. She loved Carmen Miranda because she met her at one point, but I just loved wrapping things around my head. So if it was a hat or something and then cut to years later, I was walking somewhere out of nowhere. This woman stopped. She's like, do you know why you wear hats and the total stranger? And I'm like, no. Why? She's like, because you're an empath, you're always taking in. You take in energy and you wear hats for protection. And I'm like, that's so interesting because I actually almost believed that. I was like, okay, I actually believe that. I could see that being a thing. I believe that. Yeah. I could totally say because I am. I'm very sensitive to people's energy. And so when she said that, it's like, you know, because I just don't, you know, I guess I have a hard time believing somebody can come out of the blue and tell me that. But then at the same time, I do believe it. It's to be very careful because I don't want anyone listening to think that you should just believe anything anyone tells you when they walk up to you on the street. But you should also believe that anyone tells you when they walk up to you on the street, like a grain of salt kind of way, but also in like a possible angels kind of way. Oh, yeah. No, totally. Also like what if life has its own way of telling us things it wants us to believe and things it wants us to not believe and they get all kind of matters. So it's like the message isn't always the message. Like when you get it from certain places, but the impact thing, I believe because I think artists are their impacts on, and there's levels to it, right? However much you want to let yourself be an impact as a creative person who's making things to help people heal, to help people feel better, to help people work things out, to help people understand life and what we're going through here in this life. But I do think that the impact thing is real. I think you are too. I've always thought that you were very -- The reason for me why I would judge it a little bit is because she also seemed like a fan, you know? And so like anybody who knew me would already know that, you know, like that I am because one of the conversations I have the most about is like people are always asking me about my production style and how I work with people. And it's very about, you know, if Joel's coming in to work with me, we're going to talk for a little bit like this without the microphones in front of us. And I'm going to ask you about what's going on with you. You're going to tell me a bunch of bullshit. And then I'm going to start reading through you and get down to a deeper place. Because you know, for me, to write music, I don't like just surface stuff, you know, I like to go deep. That's just how I am. I'm a songwriter. So I get into people's space and I'm putting on your hat, your vest. I put your clothes on. And I'm like, it's not about me writing a song about what's going to be great for me. It's about how am I going to identify a great song for you. So anyways, I talk about that a lot. So that was the only reason it seemed a little random. But I 100% agree that the universe gives us signs. All that my whole life is built on one gut feeling. You know, I'm constantly following this frequency that's constantly pulsing in my life. And sometimes if I open up the frequency, you know, and magnify it, I get in there and I see the signs of what I need to do. And that's how I navigate through life is constantly by receiving these incredible gifts. The universe constantly gives, but sometimes we just don't see it. Sometimes we don't want to see it because sometimes the universe brings us bad gifts too, but those gifts are important for our journey. So I just try to open up and receive everything as much as possible, but I love what you said because it is all true and especially being creative and our job is to express, we have to keep those channels open to be our best self and to be believable and authentic and organic and hence why music sucks right now is because people are not being organic and they're thinking, they're being strategic, everything strategic. And I get it. I get that's what the world we're in, you know, but it's like that element of people going on a gut feeling and expressing what actually comes from the heart or from, sometimes how many songs have you written that you have no idea what it's about. Till later. Till later. You hear and you go, oh, that's what I'm talking about. Exactly. Because sometimes these songs come to us and we're like, I don't get no, what this is. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, shit. Of course. Why didn't I see that or it was for somebody else or whatever. I don't know. I'm sorry. Didn't mean to go into this. No. Just ask you. I love how you're doing. I love it. I love it. You know, what is Westlake? I knew we would have a talk like this. What's the point of small talk anyways, you know? I can't go out because I can't do small talk. You know how people just try to get into these conversations with you in a really loud place. I'm like going, I don't hear you, man. I'm not, you know, you're blurred to me and plus your drunk. So I'm not going to get involved in the heavy conversation. But to your point, as far as, you know, the thing that jumps out to me the most is remaining open. You know, I think that right now we're in a world in a time where we need to go back to what I'm saying earlier, where we have to open ourselves up a little bit more to get a little deeper. But saying we have to go, you know, be, you know, Joni Mitchell, I'm just saying we do need to kind of open up a little bit and start looking at things a little differently because we need a little bit more depth in life and art and poetry and, you know, I don't want to see the same movies being recycled, you know, I think that creativity is hitting a weird space because people are not open to risk, you know, because everybody's worried about their jobs. Every kid out there on social media is worried about saying the wrong thing and losing, you know, their followers or being, you know, like, I don't know what's the word, being canceled or, you know, how am I going to get more followers? How am I going to do this? We're in such a weird place to be creative because you would think it would give us the most open opportunity. But it's actually closing us up because it's making us have more rigid, you know, creative is like being funneled into this, okay, this is the space I can live in. Like somebody said something to me that you can't release demos because it won't be caught onto the algorithms on the DSP's and I'm like, well, you can't call it a demo, but it's a demo. So what are the fuck am I going to call it, you know, well, you can't call it a demo because it won't recognize, but I'm not trying to get it on the DSPs, I just, I don't could give a fuck about that. I'm just trying to show that this artist has a body of work and this is where it came from, the acoustic version of it. And then I'll release the, the big production later, but I want people to hear where songs come from. They don't come blaring out, you know, of your butthole like that, you know, they come. You know, they come out with like, hey, you know, here's an idea. So I'm trying to utilize that, you know, I know I just jumped into a whole other area, but it's all the same thing, you know, but anyways, did we have any questions like, what are we just going to hang out? I mean, you know, that's kind of what this is. The main kind of that I can chatter all day. I knew we would have a, a great talk and you know, the way that we do this show, I think for people listening, I want people to feel inspired to go into their own life and go upwards and try and do special things because I think it makes the world a better place. So when we get to know each other better and we get a sense of people, it kind of feels like it's achievable for us too. No, and I understand that that's what the whole social media is for is for people to, you know, say, here, this is who I am and, you know, but when it's real, you grab onto it, you and um. Real time. Real is hard to do though. Yeah, exactly because people edit themselves constantly. Filters. And I think it's kind of hard and like long time ago. Long time ago. In the 90s, we had run around in flyer. And as we're firing, we would talk to people and people would get to know our personalities just being out on the street. And then it would make them want to come see our show. And then the personality that you're displaying on stage, it's real, raw, you know, emotional and fun. Then you're, you know, engaging more people. And then there's more people at your show and blah, blah, blah and so on and so on. So we're missing a big part of that piece now, you know, in the music is because now you're having to go on to social media and think about, okay, how am I going to engage? If I tell a story about, you know, this is not going to do it. Okay, that didn't work. Okay, I'm just going to, you know, I did a test actually the past couple of weeks because I'm terrible on social media, but somehow I've gotten better on it because I had that big TikTok explosion, you know, with the bees in the trap and what's up. It was like a huge trend, right? Yeah. So and what was great about that is I had reunited for non-blans already, you know, and so I was like, hey, you know, I, we got an offer to play bottle rock, do you guys want to and every year I get asked to reunite for non-blans. I'm like, no. But how did you do it? I just called them up, you know, so well, first of all, I came out, you know, I, in my studio, I have this, my lawn, my front yard, and it's where I always go and I manifest, you know, so I stood out there and, hey, universe, I'm ready to receive whatever it is that you want to give. And then I said to the universe, and I'm open to reuniting for non-blans kid, you know, a week later, my manager calls me and he's like, so I got some interesting offers and I'm like, yeah, he's like, and I'm like, go ahead, I already knew. And he's like, well, I just got to call bottle rock. They want a for non-blans and to play. And I'm like, start laughing. And I go, you know, I just put that out into the universe last week. And so funny, it showed up so fast, fast. And so anyway, so I called up the band and I said, hey, you know, we don't talk at all. And I said, listen, there's an opportunity for us to play. I'm not approving yet, and I'm not saying yes, I'd like to come out to San Francisco, like to meet you guys at a rehearsal place. Let's just see how it feels. If it feels weird and awkward, done deal, no big deal, move on. Nice to see you guys. And they were all like, okay, and so I go out there and it was weird and it was awkward. And I gave it another day and they came the next day. And the next day I just changed my perspective. I was just like, I'm putting too much on making this something. Yeah, or even like, how do it feels? Yeah, it's like, whatever. You know, it's like, let's just jam. So the next day, I said, you know what? I just want to jam. Let's just see, you know, let's play some stuff. Let's stick around whatever. And we did that. And we instantly just fell right back into place. We were a great band together. Great Krista, the bass player and Don, the drummer and Roger phenomenal players. And so then I was like, okay, do you guys want to do this bottle rock show? And they're like, yeah. And I said, just to let you know, once we say yes to bottle rock, all the other offers are going to come. So I'm just letting you know in advance that I have to control everything. This is not a democracy. This is not raise your hand. You know, and I'm in control. So first of all, it's an awkward thing to get together with people you haven't seen in 20 years, no matter what the relationship was. It's just time. It's just, it's always going to be awkward. So it's going to take a little bit of practice to like be together with anyone regardless and let alone a band that you have like a history with and we're probably like some unresolved stuff or whatever like all bands, right? So that I would say was huge that you guys could just get in a room and stand the awkwardness and the uncomfortable. Like most people can't do it. They run away from the pain of discomfort, of being in the presence of someone that there's something unresolved or something hasn't been like unpacked and sorted out. So I think that's incredible that you guys did that. And then the fact that you could say what like this is how this has got to work or you know what I mean? You're like basically, you gave them terms of a relationship which most people also don't do. They don't like work it out together. Like I think a successful relationship actually heard this somewhere and so it's not mine. But a successful relationship is just a set of sustainable agreements that everyone agrees on that they can sustain. And so if you can't sustain it, you shouldn't be in that relationship because it won't be successful and what's the point, right? Time is the only thing we have that we can't buy more of, right? So it's incredible that you got there. I'm just saying it as you go. So I'm just so you know, I'm very comfortable in discomfort. So like I'm really good in that space. In fact, I thrive in discomfort. That's great. And laying down rules, I just have to, you know, because that's just the way it's going to be. I'm not going to all of a sudden rejoin this ban. So it could be all the same bullshit as it was before. You know, it's just not going to happen. Why why did it on the first go around, right? This is hugely successful. You know, you're living the dream. You're in a band. You become a rock star and everyone, you know, obviously anyone who hasn't done that. I'm not saying it is the dream. I'm saying that's what you think it is when you're when you're going for it. Why did you shut it down? It wasn't shutting it down for say because I didn't really mean to do it. So basically for me, I was not prepared for the level of like people trying to, I mean, everybody want to interview me. I wasn't one of those lead singers that felt like I needed all the attention. Right. And nobody ever wanted to interview anybody else. So this pressure of me constantly, always having to speak for the band felt weird to me. You know, and then there would be some situations that would happen within the band where totally understood this, a jealousy kind of thing. Why is she getting all the attention? You know, we're equally, you know, a part of this band, blah, blah, blah, which then turned into me getting resentful going, well, fuck you. I'm not asking to do this. You go do the interviews, you know, and if you want to be, you know, looked at as a songwriter, then you stay up till two or three in the morning and get up and write those songs. I have no problem. You can come knock on my door anytime. It'll, I'll probably be up and I'll probably be writing a song. It's just what I do. So if you want to take on that responsibility, I'm totally open. Yeah, also like go come up with the great ideas for the song go. Yeah. There is something about a creative driver. Yeah. So it, so that those were the kind of things. And then honestly, I was just like, that was my first band, you know, when I was before foreign on blonde, I was already making my way up as just acoustic, you know, I was showing up. I played opened up for DeBora IL, Bob Moll. I opened up for X. I was starting, you know, my own little thing as this girl that show up with her acoustic guitar. And where was this at San Francisco? Okay, San Francisco. So is that where you're from, born and raised? No, I was born in Boston, raised in San Diego and spent time in San Francisco. Moved up there when you got like like around 20. Okay, cool. So right, you know, I moved to San Francisco around 20 or 21. Cool. And then I moved from Boston to San Diego when I was one years old. Oh, wow. So you were in San Diego a long time. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. So I was there. So, you know, I was doing pretty well as the singer, songwriter, weirdo girl that, you know, had dreads and was kind of kooky. And then it was the band that showed up. Anyway, so the point is I was having this moment on my own and then shifted over to this band because I thought, you know, this could be fun. You know, and I didn't bring any of my songs into the band. I played their songs and their songs were like country punk, you know, and had like a, it was dumb and fun, you know, and then until I started realizing, you know, maybe I could, maybe I can marry the two. So I married the two, wrote my songs in and started writing more. And then all of a sudden, that's when things started taking off. So when we started making the second record. Right. You're right. Fucking amazing song. You know, but when we're, so all this stuff is happening, we blow up. It's huge. Everything's where, you know, one hit. I get it. Whatever. Big song. Fucking huge song. Big song for anybody, you know, and, you know, and I was like starting to find a different part of me, you know, because I'm inspired by so much, you know, and so when we started working on the next record, I just, I was like, dark. I was dark. I was getting depressed and I was very confused about, you know, where am I going with this? Because, you know, I'm thinking, I'm on the wrong path. I don't think I'm supposed to be here, you know, I was supposed to stay on the other path that was going to be, you know, either way, I would have gotten to where I was going to go, it just would have looked different. Linda Solo, Linda with Band for non-blanch, you know, so it does, there's no, I don't care. I'm not resentful, I'm not, you know, like, oh, I, you know what I mean? I don't have that at home. And then, so when we started making the second record, I was like, in like, Tom Wates, you know, Pink Floyd, ELO, that's where I'm at, you know, I'm like, I'm like, oh, okay, I can explore all these other pieces about me. And the band would write these songs and they'd be like, uh, that doesn't sound like a foreign-on-blanch song. And I'm like, you're right, it doesn't, you know, and then, then I would bring in another one. That doesn't sound, that doesn't sound, that doesn't sound. And then it was like, okay, let me go write a song that does sound. You know, and then play it to them. That sounds more like foreign-on-blans. And I'd be like, looking at them, going, are you fucking kidding me? I just gave you gold over here. You know, it's like, what are you talking about? And so then, Krista said to me, oh, this was a big thing. This is actually a great story. This was huge. So I'm sitting with my best friend. I'm sitting with Krista, the bass player, and I'm talking to my manager, all separately, different stories, different times, same story. I want to play Carnegie Hall. I want to look into the audience and I want to see people in suits and fancy dresses. Yeah. Jewels sitting down, watching me because I have an orchestra behind me and a big band and I'm singing songs that really mean something and they're open and they're airy and they're spaced, you know, and it's powerful. And I'm just standing there, you know, and everybody's like, you know, and my best friend, Aubyn, is the only one that's getting it, you know. And so then, my manager calls me a week later, a week later. I have a week thing, seven days. This guy is going to call you, just know it is who it is when they say it. And I'm like, okay. And so this English person, hello, Linda, you know, and I knew exactly who it was already. So it's Roger Daltry for you, kids that don't know from the who. And if you don't know that, basically who started punk rock. Okay. Listen. If you don't know that. No kidding. Look it up Google. And so then, you know, I'm like, hello. And he's like, this is Roger Daltry. I'm like, I know. And he's like, it's my 50th birthday. And I want you to come out here and I'm playing Carnegie Hall. And Bob Ezren is going to produce it. My one of my favorite producers. And Michael came and conducting the orchestra. You know, I'm doing such a bad job with his voice. And I'd like for you to come out. And I don't know if you know my music, but I'd like for you to come out and sing acid queen and Dr. Jimmy. And I'm like going, and I'm like going, he's like, can you do that? I'm like, yes. Just tell me when I'll be there. Anyways, I show up and there's fucking Pete Townsend. John Antwistle. Michael came in Bob Ezren, the whole orchestra. And I just started crying, crying. And he walks over to mean he's like, are you okay? And I'm like, I am so okay. I'm beyond so okay. Right. So that was like this moment that happens. You know, and Bob Ezren after the show comes up to me, you know, and he's like, you are incredible. And then one of my favorite directors, Terry Gillian, comes in and Terry Gillian did Brazil and time travelers and a bunch of other great things, but incredible director. And he comes up to me. He's like, who taught you to be like that? And I'm like, to be like, what? He's like, the way you're dressed, the way you're dancing around on the stage. He's like, you're like a character. I don't want my movies. And I'm like, it's just how I've always been, you know. And I got my big boots on. You know, I got a hat on and whatever. I look like all of her twist. Well, you look like you. Yeah. But I go home with my buddy. And I'm like, and I had my dress and like shave off my hair. And he was like, what? I'm like, shave it off. And so I shaved my hair off. And he's like, you sure? I'm like, shave it. Fucking off. I'm starting a new thing. And then I go back in to talk to the band. We had some shows. And then I go talk to them. And I say, listen, I'm unhappy. I'm suicidal. I'm depressed. I'm really unhappy. And something just happened to me that validated what I need to do. And I need to go. And they were like, and I feel actually emotional saying that because I remember. I feel emotional. I remember their faces, you know. And the stupid songs I did write, they were actually really good. And I knew they were. And the record company was, it's so excited. Tom Wally was listening. They had picked their singles. Everything. But I just knew it wasn't where I supposed to be. So that's why I left because it wasn't anything in particular that anybody did. It was, I just knew. And everybody thought I was crazy. You know, for doing that. Like, are you kidding me? Like you guys are one of the biggest bands. This record is amazing. And it's going to have so much success. And I said, it's not worth it to me. If I'm unhappy, I'm not going to be happy playing these songs. You wrote them. I know. I wrote them for you guys. Who taught you to express yourself like that? Who like was the example? And maybe there is one. I don't know. But like who, I have a lot to say. I see it in your eyes. I have a lot to say. You're thinking right now. And I don't want to forget. I don't want to forget what it came to me when you started the story. It came to me. I understand. And so I want to say that. So I don't want to forget that. But I want to know reach out of that file. I want to know where you got the thing that so many of us, we don't have it. The ability to express ourself. Now me, I had to get there. And I'm still not great at it. But I can do it when I, maybe when I write a song, maybe. But then I sit in a room and I can't express what I think or how I feel in a moment that pertains to me. And then I might find myself on a whole other path. All getting led down a whole road because I didn't say no. Now I don't feel actually like this is nothing. There's a way to do it without saying fuck you to someone. You say, this isn't this isn't the fit for me. This isn't right for me. At this time, it's not right for me. Whatever it is, you can say no to people. You can say what you did was in a moment where everybody wants more. Everybody wants just the biggest record, one of the biggest records of the time. Everyone wants another one. They're all dying for another one. They're waiting for the next hit. The next, let's keep the fuel going. Let's keep the coal in the train. Let's keep the thing. And you go, not happy. I feel suicidal. I feel like I just want to know like who nurtured that part of you if anyone did or was it a, or was it a reaction to maybe not being able to at some point in your life? Those are the. So to answer that. And here's going to be a little promotion. I have a documentary coming out called Let It Die Here when my my solo album comes out May 8th. But the record and the documentary are kind of connected. They're very connected. Right. So it's super cool. In that documentary, it'll answer this question. So let's leave it. No, no, no, no, I want to answer though a little beyond that. Okay. I am a survivor. When you're a survivor, you have nothing to lose because I could care less if I die tomorrow. You understand? Like I live like if somebody broke into my house, I would go, kill me. I don't give a shit. Go for it. Because I don't live in that space of like fear of, I mean, I love life. I love life. Let me try to explain it a little differently. But when you're raised a survivor, my mom was mean. She was a mean Brazilian woman that was very opinionated. So I loved her. I love her still. She was one of my biggest influences. But that woman was mean. And I remember the story. My dad looked like and don't be shocked when you hear this price. But in the '70s, gas was 47 cents. Right. Gigi fucking not. It was 47 cents. And so my dad asked and then and self service like the full service was there and it didn't cost extra to go in full service. So my dad pulls in to full service says, give me a dollar. That's, you know, two gallons is you know, because we were poor. So the guy puts in a dollar 25. He comes back to my dad, okay, that'll be a dollar 25. And my mom just whipped around and looked at my dad and it's like, you know, you asked him to put a dollar in that 25 cents is going to come out of his pocket. You didn't ask for that. And my dad was like, Maria, you know, just whatever. And my mom's got the very heavy accident. She gets out of the car. She goes right to the guy and she's like, "You owe my husband at $0.25," and he's looking at her like, "But man, we put $1.25," she's like, "You put $1.25." He asked for a dollar. And I'm going to stay here until you give me the $0.25 back, or I'm going to go to your manager. And that guy got so afraid of my mom, gave the $0.25, gotten my mom through the fucking quarter at my dad and said, "Alfred, you need to fucking learn how to take care of yourself and stand up for yourself." And my mom is an immigrant. She came here, she got married, she got her visa and everything, but she barely knew English. And my dad was an engineer. He worked for Macintosh back in the day. It was called General Dynamics Back then, but my dad was making missiles and computer chips and stuff like this, he was a very smart man, but he had no backbone whatsoever. He was very passive-aggressive, so that dynamic, I think, is what I grabbed onto. I can either be that loser, that's an alcoholic, or I can be the woman that's standing up and surviving and strong, but hopefully I don't become the abuser, and I had to choose very quick in my life, which person, so if my mom threatened to leave, which she always did, I always ran upstairs, packed a little bag and sat by the front door, because I would rather be with my abuser than the guy that is a wimp. Were you close with your dad? No. No, I wasn't. Right. Because my dad was like one of those, my dad was from Portugal, but he was raised a white male, that believed that women were, does it have to be just in the kitchen, making dinner, pregnant, barefoot and pregnant, they shouldn't vote, they shouldn't have credit card. My dad was that guy, and we were Americans, and you got to have American names and all this stuff, and my dad was a very pro-America, because I think that's the way he was raised, his family was in Boston, there's a big Portuguese community in Boston, and so when everybody migrated to Boston, it was immediate, it's uncool to be an immigrant, so we got an American, you know, so I think his father raised him to be that way. So to answer your question, it was basically I was beaten into being outspoken, and that was the only way I was going to survive because I had to start fighting her, and I only could fight my mom with words. Right. I can't hit my mom, so I had to stand up to her in a way that nobody else was. My other members of my brothers and sisters were not, and I was the youngest. I would watch my mom fight with my dad constantly, and it just taught me like, okay, I'm going to have to be a fighter in this world because I'm definitely not going to get anywhere just walking away. So I would put myself in the situation constantly, and you know, I'm aggressive, I am, I'm an aggressive Brazilian woman, and I'm also in fucking areas, you know, and that's like, you can't get any more aggro than that. Yeah, I think you're, I think you're very much when you've arrived to something you've arrived to it, and you get, I think you're likely once you know, you know, and you can't unsee it once you know. Yeah. And then you, you, you can't stop thinking about what you saw. That's where you want to go, and everything else is noise. There's like something also about a mean or critical parent that, even if they don't mean it, they don't, they're, they're surviving in the world, and then they're trying to raise you to survive in the end. Oh, yeah, no, totally. I listen, my mom loved me very, very much. She loved me very, very much, and I know that. Was there ever tender moments with her? No. Did she, the tender, that wasn't like a way of life, like, like life was too. There was no, how are you doing in my family, right? There was never like wanting to know how you know, no days, well, we had to stop crying. So like the group, but we, the group, you know, the, the, my brothers and sisters got, um, sister, we would get together and we would say, okay, we just have to stop crying. Because if we stop crying, she's going to start stop beating on us, you know, she's only beating on us because she likes seeing the crying. Right. She knows it's affecting us. So we got to stop. And so we just one by one stopped and so she would punish you guys with like spankings or like beatings. Oh, beatings. Like what's a beating? You know, like, like, like, like, like, just grab anything and hit you with it, type thing or like. My mom has broken a broom over like my sister's head. Right. She's tied me up on the railing and with me, you know, I've been chained up to a dog caller and put in the doghouse stuff like that abusive, like bad things, you know, like the kind of stuff that I would like literally, I would be in a story like in our friends being like, oh, yeah, my mom, like, she totally, you know, you know, my daddy, you know, we had to go to bed early and my dad didn't let me watch TV and then the friend like, yeah, my mom hit me in the butt the other day and it really stung. And I'm like, yeah, my mom would put hot spoons on the burner and put it on our tongues and everybody would be like, oh, this is, this is, this is okay. And it wasn't until my adult years, I'm not kidding until I realized like, oh, that was not cool. You know, because you're just thinking this is the way you're raised. And listen, honestly, I'll tell you this, the, the honest, I wouldn't change one thing because I love the person I turned out to be and I'm loving who I keep growing into, you know, and. Absolutely. You are. Listen, you're, that, those stories, first of all, I have to say, you can't change anything right? We can't, but abuse is tough one for me and it's not that we have to accept it. It's wrong. But we can't change it. Some people become broken from it. Yeah. And then there's these like incredible people like you. I'm very like, I'm sensitive to it because I've been around it my whole life and it's something that I've done a lot of thinking about and I mean by that that I've been around at my whole life, I would say I didn't suffer the horrible abuse that you just kind of explained that you gave me a little peek. I'm sure there's more to it. It's horrifying to me because as kids, we don't choose to be abused or neglected or there's lots of different forms of it. But physical abuse is like the manifestation of that in its like worst form is those like levels of physical abuse too. It's just like there's levels to it and it's, but to me, it's all horrible. Neglect is pretty bad too. And then there's emotional abuse, which is also really twisted and like which one's worse. It's like this big world to which one did you have? I would say this is the top one, never talking about this stuff. I would say neglect emotional and some physical, but not to the level that I think it was negligence. Yeah, but just so you know, there is no abuse as abuse, whether someone got hit harder or you got hit softer, that doesn't matter because it's still affecting the same system. You're still, yeah, it's still the injury is the injury and I feel emotional. I had that and mental abuse is actually, I rather have the beatings, you know, because that that one's the one that sticks with you the most. And you can kind of when you become an adult with the physical, you can kind of go, that was wrong. I know it. It's black and white. But emotional, emotional you have to, there's paths that it creates. It's really fucked up. It causes these things, you know, the way you think, the way you operate, the way you feel about yourself. So like where, what did it do for you? And also, I will say that like there is negligent abuse, there's, there's abuse like you could say, well, it didn't mean it. I, I have this or I have this problem or I have a drinking problem or I have a, you know, or also then to witness abuse as well. If you witness your parents abusing each other, there's so many like to me, like levels and angles that abuse and trauma, those kind of traumas can affect us. So it's very complicated because I think like a lot of people go through it and they don't realize that. How did it affect you? It affected me in a, a few different ways. So anxiety. I developed anxiety at a very young age. I started having panic attacks around the age of 11 and I would have them every day of my life until I was in my late 20s and realize I didn't even know what that was. I thought it was normal, so it was really strange. When I started going to therapy, which was like in my late 20s, after I was lucky enough to have like a few relationships with really good people who really cared about me and that would say, I'd say that's what set me on my path to like therapy and like really working on myself and developing a bunch of shit that I didn't get to develop. And so that was like my journey was actually, I went out into the world, it was a super religious [BLANK_AUDIO] it was very like and then my dad was an alcoholic and then there was the darker side of our family was there. But then there was this like these moments of like I guess happiness. I don't know if we were ever happy, but like they were trying and like it was a really strange place to grow up because also they used religion as like we're better than everyone else. Everyone else is going to hell kind of like that's the messages I got like when I was a kid and I never felt like it fit me like I never really like believed. I'm like well they don't look so bad. Everyone looks pretty it's like they're having fun over there like you know what I mean. But it was like being upside down and like this is down and this is up kind of the way you're raised in like religion. And so it was really tough because everything had a religious kind of Christian or Catholic which was like evangelical Christian like very hardcore go to church three times a week. And everything is had a religious connection to it. So everything we did was because of this and was like or if something bad happened it was because this you know they hit you was because of this if it was this because so it was a very religious like everything was attached to the religion. So it was a very confusing way to grow up because really you're not learning how life works. You're not learning how the world works. You're not learning anything useful to go into the world and actually function for all the religious people out there. It's a beautiful thing. The transcendent part of life. The higher meaning the idea that there's something bigger than us that that God is up there. It's incredible and it's important. I'm not taking that away. But you have to know how the world works to be in the world. So you got to understand how you get a job and you work and you build over time and things can grow and you can you can build. It's not just you know praying is like a meditation right you can manifest meditate you can pray then you have to get up every day and you have to do things and you have to work with all different people and you have to like learn how to be in the world. But I think too with religion ritual practice is important. Yeah. You know so I think that it's not a matter of maybe someone not wanting to teach you the way of the world but that is the world. That's the world that they live in. And so there's you know and you know there's like that routine of doing something you know like I feel like I live in a bubble you know because I don't like to venture out too much. This is the world I live in. I want to be right here but I'm not you know forcing anybody to be in it but it's like you know I'd be curious like as far as the anxiety and having kids like did any of that transfer into you being a father and having children and did you have any concerns because that was one of my biggest concerns when Sarah came to me after we got married and said you know I think you're supposed to have a kid and I'm like no way if there's one percent of my mom and me you know and so then it wasn't until we had roads did I go oh my god I'm a great I'm a great mom you know and I'm really amazing and in fact everything wrong my mother did it was showing me what not to do you know and so and I basically raised roads with how I wish I was raised you know with that same love and compassion and understanding and respect the same strategy for me yeah okay great just do what I wish I would have like I'm re I'm actually just living the childhood I never got with my kids so in some ways it's really fun because I'm just like a kid I don't give a fuck I'm like I just love it and then in some way and now as teenagers now they don't really want to like hang with me all the time they still do a little bit like we have a cool relationship but like I just have lived vicariously I think for Nicole it's a little frustrating sometimes because she's the rule keeper there has to be some structure there has to be smooth we find our our balance but definitely the strategy is like let's have a good childhood let's make some memories let's have fun yeah so that's great I think that that was a really wonderful and beautiful gift that was given you know because it really you know having that child really healed me a lot I mean I'm more than I can ever imagine and you know going back to you know you and the anxiety and I'm sure there's more but I won't press for that but it's like some stuff yeah yeah I know um but it's like how amazing in a weird way so like when I'm when you're talking about being broken and stuff like having those experiences really helped to find who I am and where my songs come from you know who I am as an adult who I'm as a friend and having this you know kind of everybody always calls me badass or fierce or whatever I'm just a strong human being that has survived you know a lot of things and to back up when I say that for you know a burglar came in I wouldn't be like a victim I would just say go for it you know and I would probably attack you know like I would be that person yeah you have a gun I don't care you get a couple shots in me but you're going down you know because you will not fuck with my family like I'm that person and I love that you know like Rhodes says to me all the time like I know that you will always protect me and take care of me yeah I know that about you have that you know and I'm like I feel like you're with you I'm like I'm not worried you know so how much of this is in the documentary so the documentary is a funny one because I didn't mean to make a documentary first of all I let someone come in my studio that wanted that thought I was interesting and wanted to shoot be a fly in the wall like in my mind the last thing I thought was a documentary I thought he was just gonna get some cool footage and I could use for content for yeah but also meeting like to document any part of our life we'll never regret it even though we probably don't do it enough I'm the same I'm like yeah cameras but then anytime I've ever let it just like on a tour now on if we ever do tours which isn't often we bring somebody because we just want the footage because I look back and I wish I would have filmed more absolutely no I agree but yeah so I was just like sure whatever can I use some of it for social media and that what's funny is I remember his look when I said that it was more like okay because I think he already knew what he was up to and didn't tell me and so then all of a sudden stuff started happening you know I had started having a meltdown you know I started things were going on in a very short period of time while he was there and I'm just like thinking of course you know and then he came to me and he he said um hey you know that footage I've been you know the stuff I've been shooting like yeah and he's like well I added 30 minutes of it and I'm like yeah and he's like and I showed it to some people and I'm like aha and he's like and everybody thinks it's a documentary and I just looked at him and I said Don I don't want to hear about it do what you're going to do but don't include me you know and he started laughing he's like but the documentary would be about you know I'm like I hear you but I don't want to know about it and then I'm like so just do what you're going to do if I said it I'll stand behind it if you caught me how can I deny it that's pretty cool you know just do what you're going to do but don't fucking talk to me about it I'd want to know about it you know so you know cut to stuff going on going on and whatever and then you know the end ended up you know like a kid Linda I need you to see the documentary and I'm like do I have to and he's like yes you have you have to sign off on it it's about you so anyways the documentary is not about my life story it's not about for non blonde it's about a moment I was having after years of like writing for other people and trying to bring out the best and people like you know I'm hard in the studio because when I see potential in somebody I want them to know about it I want them to bring it out you know I'm want to help them bring it out but what I do is I'm like I got your clothes on I got her clothes on I got their clothes on I'm fucking loaded up with clothes I'm drowning I'm suffocating and underneath it all I forgot what I was wearing you know so I started losing my identity like who am I I can't write a song for myself I can write a song for anybody else but I can't write a song for me and I'd sit and try to write a song okay you know I think there's one moment in the movie where I'm going what would Linda write you know and I'm like blank okay Joe what do you want to do I hear five ideas you know to spewing true sending it's like bam bam bam bam bam but anytime I want to write for me it's like crickets crickets so that's what the documentary is about and so I have this breakthrough kind of because there's a big moment with my mom there's a moment with my health and at the ending it is so beautiful hmm you're happy with it No, I'm not, but it's like a really beautiful moment and it's a beautiful expression and It's so stunning to me and and that moment. I was like, okay, I get it I get why this had to happen. It is so unflattering Visually on me, you know, and it is raw as can be it is so beyond and barricing Lee honest, it's I mean, I can't fucking believe I'm gonna let this motherfucker out there But it's like I realize why it needs to go out there especially now, you know, and then at the end of it I wrote this song and that's the beautiful moment, you know, like I wrote a song for me and then I'm Teaching the band and it was in real time, you know, I wrote it the night before I asked the director to go into this dude I'm gonna go in a rehearsal room. I'm going to mates. I'm gonna put a band together. I'm gonna have strings on have backgrounds He's like, what are you gonna do? And I'm like, I have no idea And he's like, so why all the musicians? I'm like because something's going to happen Don and I believe that, you know So he's like, okay, I'll be there. He gets the crew and he calls me the night before he's like Do you know what you're gonna do yet? I'm like I have no idea. So I hang up the phone with him Maybe a couple hours later. I just started solving and I go to the piano and I just wrote this such a beautiful song and Why are you crying? Because it was it was a lot, you know, and I don't want to spoil why I wrote the song Okay, I love it. I can't wait to watch it. Yeah, and so I wrote this song and then I I call him in the morning and then said I wrote a song. He's like great. I go and it's a really good one. So I enter in he starts filming right away and I'm finishing up the lyrics The band show I tell the band to show up at 10 string show up 11 bv show up at 12 So band shows up at 10 I teach them the song strings walk in right at 12 or 11 and I have a part in my head as soon as I see them the the part shows up Filming that teach them right when I'm done with that the bv show up I teach them the background vocal and then we are playing it and it's like it all you see all that in real time happening You know, and it's just this really incredible Moment to watch a song come from nowhere. Yeah, and you're teaching it to everybody right then in there This wasn't like over weeks. This was a few hours. Yeah, even that you know, it's like watching a painter paint Just showed up and you know, I didn't know what the drum beats were gonna be I didn't know at the base part of the guitar, but it's like teaching everybody as it's coming. Oh, I like that Strings no, okay tata k bv's okay. I don't know, but here seeing that and then at the same time I'm still trying to learn the song myself, you know, but you are a master. I'm just saying you're a master so you've been doing this for Enough time with talent. You're not just someone who doesn't have talent who learned how to do it and You have the ability because of your experience and all the awful and wonderful things you you've gotten to experience in life Which not many people can say they've experienced the pendulum to it's the furthest it's swung out like how far bad can you swing it out pretty far bad Hey, I'd say you're getting a hot spoon put on your tongue or getting whatever. It's pretty far here and then Rock startup all the way over here right then having children having the experience of all these incredible things right You've gotten to see the whole pendulum. So there's something about that not many people most people live right in the here They're like kind of hits these sides. It's like pretty good, but pretty bad pretty good Right, you've got to go all the way to the edge all the way to the edge So much so that some people this is why I don't think being a rock stars good for everyone Some people go to the edge and they kill themselves because it's too much That's a sad truth of Of this thing we do where there's a edge that we all look at We go do I want to go over the edge? Some of us will go over the edge and become a shell of a person and we're not real We can't sit here and actually feel things and we don't know what we like and we don't Have real connected relationships and like the I've seen we've seen you know that you know what I'm talking about like there are people Who are living in a shell and you're like who's in there and then you have these people who accomplish incredible things What you have but I think I wanted to touch base on The unhappy people that you're talking about like that you know hit the edge and you know Don't want to be here anymore. I think that too is all stems from No one ever feeling good enough You know like you get someone like now mind you. I have no idea at the state of mind of this person But like if you get like someone like Kurt Cobain who you know is a heroin addict, you know Yeah, we know that um, but you Get to a point of where you know, no it doesn't matter what you you can call me a master I loving everything you're making me out to be like a pretty powerful person But I don't see that right I'm like going who the fuck is he talking about you know I'm constantly hard on myself. I'm not good enough. You got to be better. You got to do this You got you know that song sucks. You got to write better. You got to get in more in touch You know, you got to get more you know you start linda you got to work on your patience linda you're you got to stop overreacting You got to blah blah blah. I like I'm constantly adjusting in life You know, I'm constantly trying to adjust because ultimately I would love to be this person that you're talking about But I don't see it yet. So That to me would set anybody that's my depression the thing that gets me the most is that I can never ever just go I've made it. Yes, pretty good. You know like I can't get there. I can't get there. Do you ever go like I was pretty good. I'm happy with that. That's good perfect. Okay. Yeah. No Um Like It's like saying it. I'm like saying it. I'm like what weirdo. What are you talking about? All I'm saying all you do that All I'm saying is so no. Okay. Let me say I say that with roads. Well, there you go my child I'm like I can confidently Say I'm a awesome mom. I'm I'm trying my best. I'm not always perfect But I'm doing a great job because I see it in that child like that kid is phenomenal and I can honestly say that, you know But like am I a great producer? No, I don't think I am. Will I get there? Hopefully am I the greatest songwriter? I still have a long way to go to get there You know, although I can write all these songs, you know, but I don't think everything I do is great I can identify a good song like okay. I know I like this. I like this record. Okay. I understand what you're saying but I think There's a base where we have to hold it's a practice, right? We're never going to be out of practice We're always going to be like there's never going to be a level that I'm satisfied with as a songwriter and Maybe you'll never ever truly be satisfied But I think like I do think that comes with even just wanting to master something Like anything whether it was golf or whether it was art or whatever There is something like like to people who are in pursuit of The very best they can of themselves that will never be fully satisfied But that they can hold it and go like like the way you Probably the way I am with my kids and the way I can hear it right away when you talk about roads I know exactly what kind of mom you are. That's everyone's dream mom The mom who accepts you Supports you still pushes you a little bit to like try your best But like you can't fail in her eyes. You can't let her down. She's never going to be ashamed of you He's always going to like welcome you with a hug It doesn't create a weak person it creates a strong person So I always say like what I did get some of was Acceptance of like if you fuck up Your mom said he's like helps you figure it out. She's like talks to you and it's like that's okay Let's figure this out. It's not saying you're right or you're wrong or whatever Just acceptance like a hug and they see you and they and they they love you just as you are And so it makes you want to go try it makes you want to So I think there's like some of that like we give because we didn't get it And then some of it we have to like what I've learned with my kids probably is that I need to give it to myself sometimes But it's so easy to do for our kids because they're like I think the experience you have when you're young and shapes like You either repeat it or you do the opposite and we're doing the opposite But I think that you know did going back to the whole story of just you know the okay you got the documentary and You know here I am exploring okay who I am in this film and and then after fact I you know I wrote this whole album You know all of a sudden just shoot came out then it turns into you know going to try Becca and premiering the movie and then performing this album, you know and um I'm like, you know having you know like this is amazing Then it goes into you know all this is happening and then the four non-blans and then but you'll appreciate this So when I forgot to I want to bring it back there because there's a funny thing. So after the fact I put the rules down, the other rule I said is like, and by the way, I don't want to play any foreign on blonde songs, except for a train and what's up? Those are the only two songs I'll play at these shows. And then everybody was like, uh, but um, what are we going to play? And I'm like, I'm working on that. And then in a matter of that asked by the matter of two or three weeks, I wrote a whole album. And I kept sending it to them. As I wrote the song, I send it to them, they would rehearse it in San Francisco. And then finally by the time we were going to rehearse and start rehearsing for a bottle rock, I had a whole, you know, whole set of all new songs, except for train and, and what's up? And um, did you have fun? I had so much fun because what I, what I, what was great about is I've never written a record like this or written in the style, but I was thinking, okay, so I don't want to play the old songs, get it, but I'm going to be playing a bunch of new songs. So what kind of show do I want to have? What kind of show do we want to have? Do I want to have the show where it's like a good Charlotte and people are boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, or do I want like, you know, a show where there's a little bit of, boom, boom, boom, and a little bit of listening, you know, okay, I think that, that would be a balance, you know, so I, and then, but in order for people to get into it, they're going to need to sing these courses. I got to get them to sing the courses. So I just like, I'll just write the most simplest hooks, simple courses, not very wordy at all. And that's where I went. So I created a whole show and just, okay, this is where we're going to have our downtime, you know, and I'm going to, this is where this song's going to show up. So it was really fun, you know, there are a bunch of dumb, fun songs that have some depth, but not too much, you know, and so as we are playing, I could tell right away what songs we're working, okay, that one people are not grabbing onto. So the next time, the next time I write another one, I, we're going to put it this song in. And so I kept doing that until it was like literally the master album. It's like every single song I'm watching people, they're jumping up and down. They, they're all the right cues are happening. And I'm like, there's the album, you know, it's a great way to write it. So it's a great album. I'm really actually, you know, impressed with myself about that one. So they're all love your record. I love it. I think it's really cool. So I'm not done reporting it, but they're coming in next week. And we're going to, because I wrote three more because I want to also have the best album. I, so I keep replacing songs. And so I just wrote three more. They're like, are you fucking kidding me? I'm like, I just, it's got to be the right album. It's like we're, it's got to be 10, 11 songs, 12 tops. But it's just got to be a really solid record, you guys, because if we're going to do this after 30 years, I just want it to be the best record. It can be. And I want to know that I did everything I possibly could, you know, so they're coming in next week. We're going to record these three songs. Then it's like some overdubs and then off to day way to mix, you know, what is their record come out? My record just came out in my documentary. It's called Let It Die Here. But anyways, all those things are, it's a very deep, it's very, it's a lot to take in. It's a story about me and my mom, you know, very cinematic. I scored my documentary. So I brought some of the score into the album too. And you'll hear why I needed to do that because they were transitions, they were emotional transitions. And it's like, I have strings. I have Thereman. I have vibes. I have Marimba. I have a Samba song. It's like I have so many different characters in this album. It's, it's, it's, and I just didn't think about it. I was just like, you know what? I don't know what Neil Diamond is doing here, but I'll fucking do it. You know, like all of a sudden, like this Neil Diamond character shows up. I don't even listen to Neil Diamond. I'm like, going, what does this remind me? And I'm like, oh, of Neil Diamond. But I'm instead of judging it. I just, I just did it. I just went with it. And so I think a lot of my influences showed up. And I think the influences showed up because they are reminding me of moments of what's going on in my life. So the, the documentary isn't about my life, but the album is right. You know, and so then, "Forn on Blonde" songs will come out this side of the year, but the album itself will come out in 2027. Wow. But I'll release a couple of songs on this side. That's a big year. Yeah, it is. It is. But I've been planting a lot of frigging seeds, you know. And talking about swinging, I'm swinging off that edge and I'm going to fucking dive off of it, you know, swore dive off of that, you know, I'm going. And I like to me, the only thing I can say is I'm in a moment. I'm on a wave right now. I'm just trying to stay in it and not control it. Yeah. And it doesn't mean I love it, but I'm in it. And I'm appreciating why I'm in it. And I don't really understand completely, but I'm so like, I'm in something. I'm in it. I mean, I don't know. I just all I can say is I'm in a moment and I'm totally digging it. I'm really like, all right, I'm going to own it. I'm going to take it. I'm not really thinking about age. I'm not thinking about anything. I'm just like past, present, whatever. I'm just going to be in this moment with you as we are talking today. There's no agenda. There's no plan. As soon as you said, I asked you, said, what do you want to talk about something? You said, no, I'm like, that's the only way I like to talk. So this has been a dream conversation, because I feel like when we go in and plan things, planning can mess things up because you know, it's like, well, maybe we were going to go this way, but because we had a plan, we stopped from varying off and asking about you and talking about your anxiety and some of the things that happened you in your life and maybe tonight when you go home, you'll go to Nicole and say, you know what, the strange thing happened today. Talked about my anxiety and it made me feel a certain way, but I was okay with it because usually I probably would have ran and was like, said, no, but I was actually okay with talking about it, which makes me feel like I've grown as a human being, whatever, this conversation is going to be. So I appreciate this style of open communication. And so to me, everything that's going on with me is fully open communication. I don't know what the plan is, I'm just in it and just trying not to control it. And I'm a control freak, but I'm just trying to lay low, kick back and go, all right, I'm down with whatever's about to happen. I think you're on, I can just feel it. Like I think you're on your path. Thank you. And all of this is necessary. And you wouldn't, you know, like if you went back and said, what would you change about your career, I would tell you nothing. Ask me what I would change. What would you change? Nothing. There you go. Thank you so much for having me on this show. Thank you. Thank you for watching artist friendly. If you like this episode, please make sure you hit the like button. You follow the channel and please share it with your friends. We appreciate the support. That is why this show exists because you listen to it. Thank you guys. We'll see you next time.