504. Lila Kilby, Kat Markham, and Baslam Mountain Preserve in Person

Welcome to The Plaidcast: A Glimpse into Balsam Mountain This is the plod Cast. I'm Piper Clem, publisher of the Plaid Horse magazine. Coming up on today's plod cast, we're doing something a little different. Tell me if you love. Speaker 2 It if you hate it if we. Speaker 1 Should do it again. This episode consists of parts of my visit to the Balsam Mountain Preserve in rural North Carolina in the Blue Ridge Mountains in June of 2026. In the first part, we are miked up while I go on a trail ride with Lila Kilby, who runs the equestrian center there and we chat horses, chat life, and you just kind of get to join me on on a trail ride. In the second part of the interview, I sit down more formally in the barn and again interview Lila Kilby and then also trainer Kat Markham of the Balsam Mountain Preserve. And we talk about training methodology and ethos in creating a program that's not a around competition, but has high level aspirations and standards for horse care and consistency. And so something a little bit different from both regular podcast and the people we very frequently talk to on this podcast. So come along for the ride and I hope you like it. Lila Kilby is the Equestrian director at Balsam Mountain Preserve, a 4400 acre private residential community in Sylva, NC, set amid the Blue Ridge and Great Smoky Mountains. A Greenville, SC, native, Lila was bitten by the horse bug at age 6 on the back of a gentle Tennessee Walker named Sunny, and she never looked back. She earned her BS in Animal Science from Clemson University in 2016 and then spent that year show season working for a hunter, jumper, veterinarian traveling circuits of Chicago, Traverse City and Tryon at Balsam Mountain. Lila overseas a growing equestrian program that includes the care of a dozen horses, boarding lessons, guided trail rides across more than 40 acres of mountain trails, and a full calendar of horse related community events. She's known for her passion, her warm sense of humor, and her ever present barn dog and unofficial mascot goose. Exploring Balsam Mountain: Lila's Approach to Beginners In this portion of the podcast, Lila and I go for a trail ride together and I get to ride my first ever Tennessee Walking Horse, which was amazing. Speaker 2 Sorry, Sparks, I'm just getting adjusted basically Once Upon a time there's like about 1100 acres out here, OK? It's what we're going to be riding on, OK. It used to have like 100 more house lots on it. OK, So our like current Max is like 354 one day. Yeah. And so it would have been like another like, you know, up to 400 and something, OK. And many, many years ago, one of the old old developers like 3 or 4 ago turned 1100 of this acres into conservation easement still owns it. But the trail system that lines through it, you can't tell them given over to the CA OK us to be able to use, which is great. So that means like this road right here. This is called cabin flats will never be like developed into a paved Rd. There will not be any houses down it. So we are thrilled if it is keep losing my left syrup somehow. Sorry, Sparks. What am I doing wrong? Is it is it lower? OK, hang on one second. Let me just get this works. Let me just get. OK, we're in, locked in. Sparks is like your worst case scenario. It's like people who know nothing of like very, very. And you're like, yeah, it doesn't feel right. Like, I don't bring the club horses out here with people, Yeah. I know. Yeah, but I get like, a ton, a ton of ton of people who like, are like, oh, no, I've written four times in my life. Yeah. And like, I love that. And I will say this, I tell everyone those are my favorite actually, because I don't have a lot of, like, bad habits to break, right? It's the ones that are like, oh, I go out to this one particular ranch every year. Yeah. And I think I'm. And so this is how I ride. And I'm like, maybe not on my horses. Well, like, we put my mom on and she's like, so brave, which, like, cracks me up because like, but like, nothing bad's ever happened to her. Like, like, we're like, we're like, it's OK. And she like, believes, you know, she's just like, OK. Well, they said it was OK. I took this one lady out one time and she'd never ridden. She was afraid of them on the ground. Yeah. But then was like, oh, I like, wanna get out there. OK. I sit around like my 30 minute ride. I swear to God. She rode like that. Yeah, Yeah. And it was like yelping, like anytime there was like a branch or the horse tripped or twisted tail or Bob's head, you know, And I was like, like, I don't think she's having any fun back there. But like, good for her for trying. And she did it. Yeah. And I'm like, go again tomorrow. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, girl, like do it. And like, that's, that's what I love. Because like some, there's some people that like, we just have to get over that. Like whatever's in their way, like if you can get them over that hump. And like, there's so many people like I put on my horses that like, like I haven't ridden in 10 years and I'm like, hop on this one. And and then like a month later, they'll have like leased a horse or so you know, it's like that was the only barrier they needed to get away from and. Developing Horse Fitness in a Natural Environment Yeah, like I think doing this would be like the best thing for a young warm blood to do for like 2 years and then go out and start their show career. just live out in the field. Yeah, yeah. And self falters. Yeah. And then they, you know, they take him out on like dumps them over their first, like, cross country obstacles and, like, lets them figure out how to move their own feet. Like he doesn't. You know, I think a lot of times, you know, riders are so concerned about doing their right thing for their horse and making sure everything's perfect. And I'm just like, gosh, like, life's not perfect. Your horse needs to be in charge of, like, no body. And if you're worried about getting perfect distance from their folder, yeah. You know, but that's like, if they went out on here, they would learn how to use their body and find their feet and like, that would serve them their whole lives. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Make good choices. Yeah. That's what we say to ours all the time. We're like make good choices, you're so sweet and don't you worry about your works out there. And I'm just like, no, I was like, and if I was worried about you're not on the pasture, I was certainly not about to be on the back and go on and go a trail ride. Yeah, all, all are. You can tell who was raised on like the side of a mountain 'cause they have the perfectly changed cause like literally if they skip change, they would fall over. I'm messing with my 2 clubs there. They're on my. It was like, you know, in deference to border concerns. Yeah. I feel like they've lived there. They've both been on like for six, almost seven years and they're 22 years old. Once on percent, they're on 0 joint maintenance. Yeah. The cleanest hawk and shetlock entrance I've ever seen. Yeah. And like, yeah, they're like, they're not going to come out here and go for Gallup. No, no, But like they're so fit and I have like, but what other 22 year old horse is going to go out here and go for Gallup anyways? So and the crazy thing is, is if I conditioned them, yeah, they could come out here and certainly do a good like trail gate for the long time and I could probably get them up to like 12 miles, you know, yeah, if I wasn't going to. But I want them to be calm and safe and comfortable. Packing total begins and that's another thing, but like, I can so little think about, I can tell how balanced the rider is by how well my horses at the end of the ride. Yeah. Because I'm like, you know, balance driver comes in, we go ride for an hour and my girls are like that spot. Yeah. Yesterday we took with some total beginners out and we just did the 30 minute trail. Yeah. And like when we took that point, yeah, 'cause they were like, this was a lot of work. lot of times they're not going to get help from the driver, but having like the physical and emotional skills to not have that help and, like, just get sweaty and be fine. Yeah, right. Exactly. you know, book directors. They're like costume. It's like, you know, like section planning for those horses. We need to retire them. And I'm like, no, I'm like if I start telling you they need not that I would do it, of course. I'm like, if I was like, that's what guys, they need monthly Hock injections. I was like, you would do like do it to keep the good words you have. Yeah. They might be telling me how long it's gonna take me to make another one. Yeah. Making Horse Sports Accessible with Mustangs So I have this thing where like like our entire this is like my like quiet project, which I'm going to like launch like probably next year, like being really vocal about it. Is that like our entire industry was built on the thoroughbred as like the byproduct, right? Like we could get cheap thoroughbreds and you could make them up and then, you know, not that horse sports ever going to be affordable, but it was like affordable enough. And then now we have like purpose spread warm bloods and everyone in the process wants to make a living wage, which I fully believe in. But then it's like you can't buy a warm blood for less than, you know, 6 figures. And then it just prices everybody out. So I judge a lot of local shows and I'm seeing more and more like frankly really nice Mustangs showing at the local level. And like now we have more and more tiny jumper to, you know, a try on. You can go do the 2 foot jumpers. You can literally try on invented the Crossrail Olympics. Like and I'm like, so you can get a Mustang like if you adopt it straight off the range for $125.00 adoption fee. And then if you let a cowboy like pick through it, like even the expensive ones are 5 or 10,000 like after someone's picked through them a little bit and they need some training just like the sour breads always did. But like then we can like because like the horses are so valuable now that they're assets and we can't let the kids touch them. So my barn, like we have all the jumpers and the pony jumpers are getting big, but they don't jump that big. So we just got someone who called it a bucket of Mustangs as our like trial thing. And if it works, like, if it works for us, like we'll like start pushing it because like, yeah, they're, because like a lot of families could afford save up and afford a $10,000 horse. You know, like realistically, like that's and also like then people would just like let kids do stuff and be less psychotic about like, oh, like my kid can't wrap it because like if it bows A tendon, then then I you know, like I can't afford, you know, that's my house. Like and like, and I understand like, like I understand all the factors. And even if a kid, just every kid had like a Mustang is a practice pony that they got to do everything on or you know, like some of them have great handers and jump really well. And like, so I'm, I'm speaking to like a horse that has to really survive, yes, and a bit of an independent fear. I mean like that's what I want in a jumping horse and it's certainly in a three day event. And like my horses, if, if they did like 2 lessons a day, it would be like calling the union like like my horse had an IHSA show and he slept for like 6 days afterwards. He was like, you cannot ride me. I'm still asleep. I am still asleep you guys. But I like it. But then it means that, like, like, no one can afford less than horses because, like, the warm bloods can't. The thoroughbreds used to step down and do lessons, and it was affordable to do that. Like, the warm bloods can't step down and do lessons. They just, like, physically fall apart, right? Yeah. And that's isn't like finding like, a good hacker, like, lesson horse is almost impossible to pay. You know, I was like, 'cause they get like, they either get to run down to where they're not even like servicing somebody found for a lesson, right? Or they're still like, like, that's The thing is like, they're too fancy to get retired. Yeah, but they're too fancy to like be part of an ecosystem that's not big horse shows, right? For one kid, we have an inner city barn. And it's like, so cool what they do for the kids. It's amazing for the community. I could, I could get a box about like yeah, yeah. But the horses are aging and they need to like replace them and they don't really have the money or like, hey, this is expensive. Yeah, yeah. And and, and property taxes. Yeah, yeah. Cost of living for your employee. Yeah, yeah. It's also gonna get like valid. So I got them like I got them a shockwave this year. I was like, I was like, you know, I was like looking around and I was like, OK, we're on a limited foot. Like how would I deal with this at a horse show? We're on a limited footprint limited, you know, they do their best, but like it's limited and and I was like the horses work too hard, but also like they're doing such good service. Like how do we make them the best we can? So I'm like, but I'm also like, OK, I think the shockwave can get a few more years out of some of these horses and then we need to heard of us things that that's my goal. So yes, yeah, like good. Yes, we're rescuing these horses. Then the prisoners are doing the backing. Yep, Yep. And they're yes, yes, no. And they have a purpose and they have people who come every day and love them and great food and nutrition. And so, so yeah, that's, that's my next. Like I think that's my 2027 project. I just want to make sure it all works 1st and like whatever issues we run into, I want to know what they are before. Like yeah, troubleshoot it before we like get going on telling people about it too much. But that's to me, that's how we fix horses. And because the only reason it existed before is because the thoroughbreds were a byproduct. Like it didn't, it's not like anyone could afford this purpose bred horses before. We just had this like weird wormhole the last 10 years where like everyone was on the purpose bred horses thing. But like that's not sustainable. No one can afford that. Ownership Philosophy and Trail Saddle Comfort No, so many like 6 year old ladies I know get like spun off of their warm blood and I'm like, wouldn't you be happier on a quarter horse? Like your quarter horse can jump 26, it can go to horse shows, it can look cute, but also it's not going to spin you off when it gets cold. Yes, and then one has to again talk about efficiency. Yeah, yes. They go on to buy a horse and then they're like, oh, I didn't get to show it. It's first season I owned it. Yeah. I'm really bummed. And I'm like, what? That's why I share my like 6 year thing all the time. It's not that like I'm particularly proud of that. But like also I want people to know that like there's some that's what it is on some of them. You know, that's my thing. I was like, if you're doing it for the horse, it shouldn't matter how much time it takes, right? No, I view it as like, my horses are never for sale. Like a lot of people can't be honest because of horses are going to be for sale. And I totally get that, you know? And so my big thing is like, my horses are never for sale. So it's their job to be like, embarrassed. Like their role in this community is like, yeah, OK, so do the borders like trailer up here on their own and ride. OK. I luckily I don't have, otherwise I would not have that. I know of everything else. Yeah, they bring themselves and they basically like. None. Spanky, you got the pep. I think you're, uh, you're gonna have regrets about this. It is, I will say, like I love like dated. Yeah, but they aren't like pop. Yeah. No, I mean, I can see how if you like had to ride all day long for work, this would be like very attractive. The saddle would be very attractive and like I like to OK, yeah, that to me that's the main thing, although I don't like the horror either because I'm sure I'm possibly like if I like go into post, I have to look out for my bra. Yeah. And I once, you know, went to this now and got my oh God, no, no thanks, No thanks. Yeah, which saddle's at Tucker, OK. OK, yeah, grab on. OK. Like more than what this is. Oh, that's awesome. I needed that for my mom. Yeah, I feel like fighting fenders destabilizes rockers, Yeah, Even like the Guinness, Yeah, they might feel like, oh, more stable in it, but it's putting them putting the entire rest of their bodies unstable. So I like the Tuckers a lot for like, like I said, for my girls. And it adorbs a lot. And you'll feel like you'll be like, oh, I can't feel my horse too much. Yeah. But again, you don't want them to feel the horse as much. Yeah. Like, ignore the person on your back, the great coworker who, like, died on. Yeah, Yeah. And that's another fun thing to explain to, like, newer people. Yeah. When they're out in the wild, like, even in the desert, they have a hierarchy. Yeah. Yep. Yep, Yep. Should not be getting. Yep, Yep. The other rest should not pass. Lila's Journey and the Joy of 100-Pace Rides This is so nice that it's like, so like private. It's great. I mean, you know, there are hikers. Yeah. Parking people who mountain bike around here. Yeah. But And then on our way back up, we'll be like alongside the river. So we'll want to get something footage, but it's also like perfect easy grade for doing some product perfect. Perfect, I was at the tree you're talking about 'cause this is like so well cared for here. Way smaller, like if we knew no one was going to be like meeting up on the trailer, that's a whole thing. Basically, like from Camp Trail 40 goes it's this way and then all the way up to where like the unused kind of Rd. gate is, and then all the way down the Cabin Flats Rd. that we parked on or we're going to take. Oh, you know, apparently, you know, Sparky the wrong way. He's like, this is not correct. So if you went up that way, it'd be a little bit longer, I believe. But this is the most beautiful like, except the gorgeous training trail. Yeah, you're ready, Sparks. He's like Lenny Adam. He's gone. OK. They're really big, strided across the terrain, like, like, it's really just reach for it. Reach for it. Yeah. And I love it. Like, I feel so good, you know? Yeah. I feel confident in my course. Yeah. Yeah. I thought I remembered this. Yeah. We didn't need to canner through here. I was like, because they're quite good, but they're not ready to jump. OK, let me grab on to everything again. Is that fun Sparks? It's crazy they can just canner on the rocks. Like, our horses would be lame at the walk at this somebody. We end up putting in, like, torrents or pads. Yeah. I saw he has pads behind. Yeah. And this was a old trimming issue. Like. Yeah, terrible. Like, you know, negative angle. Yeah. So we put him in a wedge. Yeah. But a lot. I mean, like, this guy's barefoot behind and has just a straight set up front. Yeah. They do just so beautifully, you know, out there putting on this diet and conditioning and genetics and like, it's one of the great things about our dry lofts is like that, that, you know, hardens their feet up within the first half year of the meeting here. Yeah. Oh, totally. To get a much harder soul when they came in with another little cancer. Yeah. Yeah, was that fun, Sparks? The bridges can be a little slick, so I just have a bit of contact. OK. Just to help them balance a bit. That mud spills over the edge. Yeah. Come on. You got it. What a star. It's hard carrying up and down hills. Uses your body. This is. It's so nice being on them out there. And like, we can tell they're just balanced, see fit. Yeah. And they just take their way around this little ravine. Yep. Yep. I was like, I just trust them. They know this better than I do. Like, just love their dogs. I'm like, I think that's my favorite thing. Yeah. About being here. It's the ownership of their. Yeah. And it's such a good light to just get to come out here and do this. Yeah. And I'm like that kind of that feedback, like we're so lucky to have good wishes and then they're and then acknowledge like they're lucky to be here. Yeah. And, you know, it's kind of like a, it's a dual trade of kind of taking care of each other. And it's awesome to watch. And like, you know, if I play a small part and like matching a horse and, you know, doing that and I get to see him after like, years of living after year and like how far they come and yeah, how happy they are and what it is for their owners to like, you know, like horsemen and horses change their life just changes who you are as a person in a really positive space. Yep. And it's just so great to get to watch. I do. I really believe that like when horses meet their person, they get prettier. I know that's like, not like it's science, but like you can tell when a horse has its person 'cause they're so pretty, they glow. Plain Bay working horse like it's love can't be fascist. But that's part of all the other subtleties. We got a second win, so now we're trying to walk a little faster than shoot you back out of the trail. Yeah, yeah. He's like, I'm trying to. I'm like, you are fine. Everyone knows you're both winners, both of you. I can get into this walking horse lifestyle. It's honestly like when you get a good one, like I think that's the big problems a lot of times, like the first Tennessee Walter someone ever rides and some like broken down between trail horse on like a strange yeah, but like a really good one out here doing this is just so good. Boy, I love bring the trailers all the way down. Yeah, I'm parked here. Yeah, but it adds like in my car. It's like a 5 minute further thing, you know, we're yeah. So with the rig and you're driving slow, it's like an extra 20 minutes both ways. You're like faster on the horses. I totally is. And we will probably walk the rest of the way perfect just to get a cool down. That's great. Here's a bad decision that's running. Speaker 1 Down. Speaker 2 Her. Speaker 1 Face. Speaker 2 Graduated soft bar less than a year there. It's been wounds up and like a little bit of like English pleasure, Yeah, Yeah. I just so pass, like, nothing serious, but just innocent. And I want it. And I said the next two days crying because the girl I beat tried. Yeah. And I felt so bad. Yeah. It was like, I didn't even care. I was just talking all of that. So my parents were thrilled to realize that they maybe didn't have to pay for, like, chokies. Yeah. Yeah. But my best Sometimes they miss, but like, trying. Yeah. But also like the casual side of things too is like, yeah, we're just here for a fun show on the and kind of deal. And I have this this cute cutsy little portal or just a small variety. Yeah, they did not just the name, I needed someone to ride her like Steady Eddie for 100 pace that she wanted to take her young course out on. Yeah. And going to listen to touch. And I went out and like doing my first 100 pace. I was like, all right, this is it. This is it for me, like me and my horse out there just versus, you know, reasonable time. It's fun. Yeah. And I love that. And there's a great, you know, 100 pace series in the trial area. And so we've we bought it several times. Oh, that's awesome. Stuff like that. It's just so much. I haven't done any since I was a kid. If they're so great, I just I love the philosophy around them, which is like it's a hidden time. Yep, you don't know, you just like go out and ride well, Yep, have some fun, Yep, and if you get pose, it's good for you. But like who care? Even if you just like blaze it and don't get a ribbon, like you had fun. So right, exactly. I was like, you know, they do a vet check halfway, make sure your horse is doing good. Amazing. As you should. Great. I think like we're so siloed as a horse community and it's like, I really want to like doing our like live podcasts and stuff. Like I want to just start bringing more people, you know, together and learn from each other. The care, the yeah. And that's what I love about going to see the 100 cases and trying on. It's like it's everybody, everybody. It's kids. It's adult Amy, It's 70 year old horse women. It's Cowboys. It's trainers starting young horses. Sparky's having regrets about coming out here. So Pepe, Yeah. Then coming up next, we have snack time. There is your. Speaker 1 Trailer. Speaker 2 Oh, now we got a pep at our step. Your hay bag is right there. Episode Break That's GRIE r.org Greer School, where riders become leaders in this portion of the Plaid cast. Balsam's Multidisciplinary Approach to Horsemanship I'm joined in person on site at Balsam Mountain Preserve, again with Lila Kelby and with trainer Cat Markham. Speaker 2 Welcome to the Plaid cast. We are live here from the barn in Balsam Mountain and there is actively barn stuff happening. So if you hear barn noises, we got a lot going on. Speaker 3 Our bagel was to be on the podcast. So does Goose. So does Goose. Speaker 2 We got lots of puppies running around. We are in the barn aisle. We've got two horses, one who's completely bad proof that we just, we tried putting rocket shares in front of it, he said. I've never seen that before, never seen, never seen a rocket chair in the aisle. So we are trying something new with the podcast and it's a little haphazard here. So we we love it. So yeah, you're one of the trainers here. Can you talk a little bit about what it's like coming up on the mountain and kind of how your your role works with integrating with everyone? And I think this is such a great place because it is so multidisciplinary. And we talk a lot on the podcast about how siloed our equestrian community is. And this place is certainly not siloed. There are a lot of people doing a lot of different types of riding, different types of horses and really kind of seamlessly it seems integrating different belief systems and and the organization and their training to to find results. Speaker 3 Yeah, and everyone, everyone feeds off of one another to what somebody brings into the into the barn, somebody else picks up on. And it's very integrated. I was invited to come up here and start working with Rio actually a year and a half ago now. It doesn't does not feel that long being a dressage writer. His owner rides dressage. So I came up and started exercising him and it was kind of, you know, I I was the only one in the barn besides Lila time because it was in February. And then now, like I feel like the community has just grown a whole lot. There's a lot more people that own horses and super active, like, and everyone is just super nice and very inviting. And a lot of people are very interested in riding on the trail. Some want to do working Eck. We also have another trainer that comes up once a week. Her name's Megan Milan and she does working equi with with everyone. And yeah, it's just a great community to be a part of. Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a great balance. I really, I very much appreciate it. Thank you. You know, when Cat came in for Rio at the very beginning, he had had a lot of time off, which was kind of sitting in the field in between jobs. And his owner doesn't live here year round. So we were kind of looking for someone that could come and get him back into working shape and ready for the season. And Cat did like such an amazing job that I think everyone else the next winter was like, sign me up. You know, it's so great because we do we're, we're a seasonal membership to some extent, but the horses live here year round and it's just been so great to have someone that can come in and keep them all. Not just like they get ridden for 30 minutes so they're not sitting in the stall, but someone who's really focused on like bio mechanics and their balance and like really what they're doing with their body. And I think our horse owners have seen incredible improvements in their horses once they kind of sign up for that and are like, oh, that's great. Now I kind of come back to town and my horses ready to go and he's not as a barn sour. And you know, all of these great things that come from having a good trainer mechanics. There's so many horses here that are bred for so many different purposes and very different confirmation. And so they all need different things. And you know, like, like barriers have to adapt to what, what kind of barn and, and what kind of purpose every horse is doing, how you ride and how you train them. You know, the principles of training are the same across disciplines. We don't need to be siloed over that. But when you talk, when you make a plan for a specific horse and and think about what they can do and their progression towards the end goal, how do you bring in confirmation bio mechanics, working straight? Evaluating Asymmetries and Groundwork for Balance You know, horses are like a lot of us, you know, sided right-handed. Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, asymmetries are common and all living creatures, especially horses. So what I do outside of Balsam is I do equine body work as well and PMF therapy, and I work with a lot of rehab horses. So a lot of like the basics to what I do with the horses here are simply balancing, looking to see which foot lands heavier than the other one, if they're slightly bent to one side more than the other and just starting to help guide their bodies to start becoming straighter. That they're equally strengthening both their right and their left, which also the diagonals. And just also helping them be calm. Like relaxation is super important to all of that. Getting them to work through their back, activate their hindquarters, because there's a lot of big hills here on the trails, which almost every single person has a horse here. They're a big trail rider. That's definitely part of like the draw of this beautiful farm on top of a mountain. So helping a horse become strong and, and you know, equally on each diagonal helps them be able to like tackle some of these hills and, and go up the hills and down them with a lot more balance and, and no injuries. Speaker 2 So how are you evaluating the cemeteries? Is that groundwork? Is that riding them and feeling what's kind of your process for looking for which hubs they're landing on maybe harder or which ways they want to turn or how they do or they'll? Speaker 3 I I start with every horse on the ground. I always put eyes on them. It starts from me, you know, having them in a in the stall on the wash rack, grooming them and seeing which foot they're placing forward, if they're perching over their front legs, if they're resting a hind leg like on a wall and starting, starting from there, which, you know, grooming is a very important part of starting to take in how a horse just uses their body at rest. And then before I ride any horse, we're in the arena. I work from the ground. You know, sometimes depending on the horse, it's one session on the ground, sometimes it's multiple sessions on the ground. Like when I first started working with Rio, I don't, I don't even think I wrote him for like almost a month. Maybe he was very unbalanced, but she's a very big horse. And so almost like the bigger the horses when they're out of shape, the bigger the asymmetries and that. And so like every horse that I, I have begun to work with, I do start from the ground and then watching them move on a circle, move on a straight line, starting to ask them for halts and have it be a balanced halt where they're not falling forward on the forehand And starting to get them to think about their hind quarters a little more. Because a lot of times horses do not, especially if they're very forward and just been ridden. Some of the horses that are here have mainly been ridden and not had a lot of groundwork. So then I come in and they think I'm crazy, but then they end up liking it. Speaker 2 And how can you teach your horses to to use their bodies and their posture and like think about their own proprioception on the ground? Speaker 3 I mean, there's many, many different ways. One of the most simple ones that I like to do is add a standstill and asking for the horse to be relaxed and not bracing through the base of his neck and then starting to ask for almost a like a step backwards, but not quite, just a shifting of the weight. And a lot of times they go from either being perched over their front legs or standing with a very base narrow stance to taking that wider, stacking their joints above each other and and starting to place their weight evenly and taking a more square stance. That's a very, very simple way and a lot of horses have a lot of releases and just doing that, taking their mind off of their forehand and starting to activate their hind end. Speaker 2 And one of those releases look like for people who might not be familiar. Speaker 3 They drop their heads, they get a very gentle look in their eye. They start licking and chewing. A lot of horses. If they're holding a lot of tension through their thoracic sling, which are typically the horses that have that braced base of their neck, they'll start to yawn a lot of times. And it's because the muscles are starting to elevate the rib cage up through the scapulas. And it's almost like someone going from being hunched over to standing up and taking a deep breath and it feels really good, so. Speaker 2 You talked about building up hind end and the high quarter muscles. What are some of the exercises you're doing? How are you thinking about that on the ground and in the subtle? Speaker 3 Asking for a lot of like yielding of the shoulders. So they start to think about taking weight behind because in order to free up the shoulders, they have to start rocking their their weight back and having it start to be even. And then also along with like yielding the haunches, but always in a gentle format, like asking for like one or two steps. Like I don't want to over exert a horse that's never even thought about those things. And then be constantly asking every single step, step. It's a very gentle process of, of, of of asking for, for a little bit and then letting them go back to their neutral and then asking for a little bit more. And then transitions a lot. I'm a huge fan of transitions. Unlocking Horse Potential Through Foundational Training I had to grab the mic. I just I had like a thought that I was like, I got to make sure I say that. But I do. I think that's really interesting kind of in watching cat work and like the great work she's done with the horses in here is I think a lot of people would find it really surprising how not high energy and explosives. All of this starts out like it's all this really subtle stuff that happens at the very beginning. And you know, I had one owner where I kind of was like, hey, like, you know, there's this great, you know, Cat's been amazing. She's worked on a couple horses in the barn. You know, I think your horse could really benefit and get it some exercise in. And after, like Cat's first couple reports, the owner was like, well, since they're just like walking around on the grounds and like, I wanted my horse to like work out and like, you know, get sweaty and all that kind of stuff. And I had to tell them I'm like, look, this is all part of the process and we will get there. But I think it like kind of really speaks to kind of a horse first approach the cat has of like, I'm, you know, it's not here to be hard on them. It's here to build them and to strengthen them. And you can get your horse really fit and forward and moving. But if you skip those kind of slow, boring first steps, you know, you're, you're not setting them up for as much success. And so I really like watching that and like, as a barn manager who's like, kind of ultimately, you know, watching all of the horses and all of their journeys, I really like having a trainer like Pat in the barn. I feel very comfortable, you know, with her. And, you know, it's so nice to have as like, part of the team of someone who's got that approach. You mentioned the word boring, and I was thinking of it too. Like these are the steps that like a lot of people got some water smash. You know, I, I think a lot of people learning the new odds and, and how subtle these changes are and how subtle like it is, you know, breathing and noticing when your horses yawns and noticing when they lick their lips. You know, these are all such like subtle, subtle things and they take out, they both are like take a long time to learn and to train yourself to notice and a ton of repetition. And you know, it's, I guess my question is like in, in getting people interested in the sport. I think one of the most affordable ways to get people interested in the sport, we talk about accessibility and affordability is to get people going on ground work. But as you said, like it's, it's easy to have people not understand the, the quote UN quote value with that and, and all horse people know the value of the walk and how much more walking all of our horses need all the time. You know, can you talk about like how we how we kind of bring these concepts to the public more in a way that, yeah, that they feel value or feel that interest? I, I think all of us find this to be very satisfying work. And I think, you know, I'm just as satisfied with like an incredible groundwork session with horses as riding. But I get it to people who don't understand this and are still learning. And it's so nuanced. You know, it's, it's like in the hunters, you know, if you don't know what you're looking at, you can't tell the difference between an 82 and an 88. And then you sit there and say the hunters are boring. You're like, no, no, I just like get into it. And it's super interesting. How do we get people over that kind of hump or encourage them or, or get more people involved? And, and you have been here many lifelong horse owners who, you know, need the value explained to them. And then when the value is explained to them, they're completely on board. Speaker 3 I find that it's a lot of horse owners that start, you know, not always, but a lot of times like my clients that find me and I start to teach them. They're like, I'm having this performance issue and then just starting to talk about bio mechanics and doing some simple things like in hand from the ground and showing them how their horse is moving and then asking their horse to take one or two steps in a different way. And it like like it's people that have been doing horses for years and years and they get their minds blown because all of a sudden this performance issue they were having with their horse, they're sometimes seeing a huge change, maybe being able to do this thing. Like I had a woman the other day, she was struggling with the, the left lead canner and it was a very simple, we worked on walk leg yields, you know, and then started to ask for more. Anyways, she just it, it, it excites people and they're like, oh, this is the missing link because so many people and, and everyone are started, you know, of like the whole goal is to ride your horse, but there's so much more to it. If you want to do it long term and if you want to prevent injury and which horses like to injure themselves. We all know that. So I think that gets people really excited as if they start to have like an issue with something and then they they come to somebody that does have bio mechanics background and then they start to see that issue dissipate and go away. Speaker 2 Yeah. And you know, I think it's really interesting. We've talked a lot about kind of like the different journeys people go on and getting people into the horse world and access to information and you know what that looks like. And I think more and more it's exciting to see that people are talking about, you know, groundwork, horsemanship, bio mechanics and less like, you know, their competition goals And whether you're using all of those things to get to a competition goal or just to have a really healthy trail horse that can go beyond the trail until they're 25 and thrive and be comfortable and balanced and not hurt themselves. I think more and more people are realizing that, but it is tough to kind of get into it. Like if you, you know, you can go to a lesson barn and learn how to walk, track, canter, but it's hard to find someone to train you on bio mechanics. So I think that's a big kind of part of it is kind of getting accessibility of information out there, which I think is kind of really the next step we're going to have to see. Every Interaction is a Training Session I wrote about this a little bit, but this winter I was at my friend's house and we finished at the barn early and you know, horse people are like 4:30. And after dinner we were like talking about if we wanted to watch a movie or something. And she was like, oh, I got this like outtake. So fuck for anime clinics DVD, do you want to watch it? And I was like absolutely 100%. Speaker 1 And what was? Speaker 2 Like the videos I've watched have been like of him doing clinics and he's amazing in his body language and the way he, you know, moves his hips and turns the, you know, turns everything at just the slightest angles. But it's like it's almost so well done that you don't know what he's doing. But because the sorts of Outtakes DVD, it showed all the other people in the clinic trying to mimic him and trying to do all the exercises. Speaker 3 Great, he. Speaker 2 Would he would like show them how to do something? Oh, we watch like 10 hours of this. I have that. I have that box set. And so he would do something and just like, like a professional, right? Like absolutely perfect. And like with these horses, he doesn't know and like, you know, his hips are angled and he's moving and his body is just like a liquid, like moving around the horse and everything is so timed and like the rope and like precision. And these lifelong horse people, like great horse people. I'm sure they would come out. They're they're at the clinic to learn. And this is like it was taped in like 2010 or something, so long before social media. No one self-conscious that they might be being videoed, you know, today it would be so performative. But in this video. And then they're just like, you watch them and you're like, Oh my gosh. And they're the ropes go, you know, the wrong way. And this is the turn and the hips are in the wrong direction. You know their feet are pointed and you're like. But I actually like like fun aside. I learned so much more from watching people do it wrong in a lot of ways that I learned from watching him do it right. You know what? I know that like kind of sounds crazy, but I think like when you when you really watch, like, you know, when you watch all day on the Hunters, you know, we talked about track and pace all the time and track and pace and it's all the time. OK, Like that's great. Like we can be drilled and preach to and all that. If you sit at the hunter ring all day, you will watch people all day long at their corners and chocolate chip up that line and like it. It has so much more impact in a lot of ways because it's like it's the purpose of what we're doing comes through. And then you watch these horses when the people aren't shaped correctly and their body's not doing the right thing. You watch their you watch their bio mechanics, you watch their pole come up. You watch the the horses be like, what are you doing? And like brace themselves and and you watch the horse not relax. And I think like we almost don't talk about like, like we talk about bad groundwork. Like we talk about, you know, other things. Oh, like, you know, the horse is bad or lunging is evil or, you know, like we, we make all these like just grand sweeping statements. And I think we like kind of missed how interesting like leading of horses. But on the flip side, if we admit that leading a horse is that important and that serious, then we would need like qualified staff to do every little piece of everything. And I'm not sure that's a jump that the, the horse community at large is like willing to make it to. Yeah. And I, I, I think it's really interesting. It's something like kind of my staff and I talk about, you know, here in the bar and I say, you know, it's like, we aren't trainers. We're not here to be like training horses day-to-day. That's not our purview. I was like, but it is our job to, you know, maintain them and maybe slightly improve them. And not, you know, even something as simple as, you know, I tell myself I was like, when you're feeling, hey, nuts, they don't get to eat out of your hands while you're standing there like that. Like your bubble is your bubble. And you know, and all of that kind of stuff I think is so critically important to having a horse that has a healthy relationship with people. And it's really easy kind of want to become best friends with our horses, but you can't support them sometimes if you're afraid of hurting their feelings. And so that's something, you know, like I said, like we have such a wonderful barn of like forced moms who like love their babies. But I do joke sometimes. I'm like, it's really nice. Like in the winter when all like the moms can go away for a little bit. I was like all the horses get much more well mannered when they're not getting their daily treats and everything. So I was like, it is, it's a fun balance of like, you know, every time you're working with them, even if it's just moving them from their paddock to their stall, it's a training session. Like it is something you are like you are having a conversation, your horse is learning something from that. And maybe all that's learning is that things have stayed the same. But you can you can learn some bad things just in your daily walks. Speaker 3 Every time you handle a horse, it is a training session, whether it's from the ground, riding, anything. So yeah. Balsam's Collaborative Approach to Horse Well-being And back to talking about like bio mechanics, I often tell a lot of my clients I'm like, and we're going to play Twister now, like, just like, like being like, we're mixing everything up that you're doing. And it's really funny because it's people forgetting like what part of their body is their left side and their right side? Speaker 2 Yeah, like it's at we can all work on our own, like proprioception. Like I don't think about like many parts of my body, like in your horse too, like they just start existing, which is great. It means they're comfortable in their skin to exist. But also, you know, they need to be thinking about where everything goes and how it lands. And I also think like a lot of groundwork is about teaching a horse to like for them to have control over their body and where they're putting things and, and for them, teaching them to have the understanding to help keep themselves sound, help put their body in the right position. Can you talk about like kind of the, the confidence that comes in the horses with the independence and understanding how they can relax themselves and how they can, you know, we, you talked about breathing, you know, and opening up their sternum. You know, I think, I think one of the sides of people don't see is like if you do good ground work, you're training your horse how to have that release on their own and their cell by themselves or in the paddock by themselves without you. Speaker 3 Absolutely. And you know, a lot of times people they want, they want to help fix like their horse spooking or having anxiety or separation anxiety or you know, being barn sour. And a lot of that does come with like a strong and confident body. I don't ever really try to address that specifically with some of the horses that I do work with. It just comes naturally because as the horse starts to gain confidence in his own body, he starts to gain confidence everywhere throughout everything, so the anxiety starts to go away if it was present. Speaker 2 Kind of to that, like Rio, who we've talked about a little bit here, he was thinking again, very good trick, yeah. Speaker 3 He just had a workout. He. Speaker 2 Was sweaty, but he's, he's a great example of like that kind of confidence in the body. So when we got him in the fall and his owner wrote him a couple times in like the two months, you know, that she was here before she was found for the season, she tried to ride him away from the barn on his own or cross the Creek on his own. And he balked. He, you know, he wasn't horrific, but he was like, absolutely not. I don't do that. I don't ride off in the barn alone. And we're like, oh, you know, OK, we kind of only know the source a couple months and we'll work on this and get back to it. And then that worked with him in the offseason and did no trail riding. Like, it was purely like arena, you know, groundwork, strengthening work. And then when his owner came back to town, she like, on like her first week back, rode him off on the trail on his own without even, like, thinking about it. We didn't blink. And he went and he was totally fine. And all that changed was he was stronger in his body and that, but it wasn't that we had trained for solo rides. We just, we, it was all Cap. It was just I'm strengthening him. I'm making him feel better. And now? Speaker 3 Yeah, and I. Speaker 2 Was like, and you know, and now he feels better and he can do these things that made him nervous before. So but it's kind of like it's looking for that root base of, you know, it's like if there's spooky suddenly, you know, addressing that, like that could be a stomach issue or that could be something else. And it's not necessarily like you need to address the spooking. You need to address with what is, you know, the what's the cause, the root cause. Yeah, exactly. And I you know, we, we were talking yesterday about, you know, the old adage and loading problem is a leading problem. And like if you are not leading your horse correctly and your horse doesn't understand your commands walking down the barn aisle and that's where every time you walk out of the paddock and come back, it's it's a training session. You are taking your horse to the cross size or taking them to the washed all like that has as much to do with loading on the trailer as practicing loading. Yeah. Speaker 3 Absolutely. Speaker 2 Do you want to talk a little bit about just kind of the being here at Balsam and kind of the collaborative experience? And I think, you know, one of the things that's been so cool is I think our industry was known for being a little, I mean, part of why we're so siloed among the disciplines is people have gotten territorial over the years. I think that's a fair statement. And, and they haven't been curious and, and inquisitive to, to new things quite to maybe a helpful degree for their horses. Can you talk about kind of your collaborative environment here and working together with all the professionals and you know, what's what it's been like for you to come in and have this team And I, I, everyone at this farm seems to get along really well, which is a cool dynamic to be part of. Speaker 3 Absolutely. I think a lot of that has to do with Lila and her openness to like all these different disciplines, whether it's like natural horsemanship to walking horse to like, you know, jumping, you have a couple 100 jumpers, but and then dressage. And she just makes this environment so warm and welcoming. And it's never about like, like competition. It's like, all right, who wants to do what and grow from there. And yeah, I have to say that has a lot to do with you. That's the energy you set here in 100%. And. Speaker 2 It was, I was saying thank you. You know, it's something I, I think from a young age in the horse world, kind of recognize that, that, you know, the competitive spirit is good in terms of, you know, wanting to, you know, be better than you were the day before. But I will say, and my family will agree, I am like the least competitive person in the world. I once cried because I like meet someone in a tennis tournament when I was 13. I like cried for like 2 days and I was like, Oh my God, yeah. I'm like I'm anti competitive almost. But I think what that kind of meant, what that kind of turned me into is this person who's like, I just want, I want to be able to like build on things. And I don't really kind of care what the label that that came from is. I don't care if it's a natural horsemanship thing or a dressage thing or a western thing or a walking horse thing. I'm like, if it's something that can benefit like my riders, my horses, my team, you know, I just I think there's value in being really open to a lot of different you just information. And it is tough because I think I think a lot of what kind of has happened in the horse world is we want to do things right. So I think everyone has this huge pressure like that. They feel like they have to do the right thing for their horse. And what they'll do is they'll go to like, you know, a single trainer, single barn and they're like, that looks good. And so I'm just going to fully commit to like just this. And I think this is just like my one winning formula and then I'll just never deviate. And so I think having, like I said, just open, you know, lines of communication between trainers and farriers and your vets and just pulling from everything to try to see like, you know, it's all about just having a really big tool kit. And, you know, it won't always work for each horse. Like one thing won't work for all, you know, eighteen horses we have in this barn. So I always am looking for, you know, just the next thing to kind of know how to do, to have a trick to have something that might help the next horse. So I think that's kind of where we come from and we're really lucky, like our borders and pack and attest to this. Like our horse owners here are all so heavily invested in their horses just like well-being. And they're very easy to talk to. Like when you say like, Hey, I think this is something your horse could help, like use. They're like do it, which is my favorite part about my job is that I have really supportive owners that are encouraging of like me and the team of professionals that we work with just like be able to go after things with their horses and it makes it really fun. In the equine world, every four legged friend matters. Episode Break Thank you so much for joining us and listening to today's Plat Cast. Building the Horse World Together: Final Thoughts The Plat Cast is a labor of love and every single episode exists because of this incredible community of riders, trainers, barn managers, parents and horse lovers who show up in the barn and the ring and right here with us. Come join us for an upcoming live podcast in person. Look for our schedule at The Plot horse.com/plot Cast. We would love to have you subscribe to the print issue of the magazine at The Plot horse.com/subscribe and read daily articles and follow-ups at The Plot horse.com. At The Plot Horse, our commitment goes far beyond the show ring. We believe deeply in the power of literacy and education, that every rider at every level deserves access to knowledge, stories, and ideas that make them a better horse person and a better human being. Reading matters, learning matters, and the stories we tell each other in this sport matter more than we sometimes realize. Whether you are a junior rider picking up your first copy of the Plaid Horse Magazine, professional trainer looking for inspiration, or someone who simply loves horses and everything this world stands for, this community is for you. You belong here. We build this together. Every article, every episode, every conversation is an opportunity to learn something new, to feel less alone in the challenges of the sport, and to be reminded of why we fell in love with horses in the 1st place. So please share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. Pick up a copy of the Plot Horse Magazine, leave a review, reach out, connect, because that is what we are all about. Until next time, keep reading, keep learning, keep riding, and remember the horse world is better when we build it together. I'm Piper Clem, and I will see you at the ring.