Life of Mike with Derick Halliman and Christine Swanson (Ep. 554)

What really motivated me was just, you know, I think a lot of, especially my friends, they and how I grew up and where I grew up, they wanted to be like their father so bad, including myself. But, you know, sometimes it's like, "Hey man, you're blessed with having people around, you're that love you and you shouldn't even kind of try to take those footsteps of a person that probably wasn't, you know, a great A." Hello and welcome back to the Directors Cut, brought to you by the Directors Guild of America. In this episode, an emotionally absent real estate tycoon has his world shattered by an act of kindness in director Derek Halliman's drama, Life of Mike. The film tells the story of Mike Smith, a thriving real estate tycoon who lives a life devoid of close friends or family. As his birthday unfolds, his wife makes a heartfelt attempt to show him love, setting off a chain of events that make him confront the reality of who genuinely cares for him and who doesn't. Life of Mike is Halliman's feature directorial debut. Following a screening of the film at the DGA Theatre in Los Angeles, Halliman spoke with director Christine Swanson about filming Life of Mike. Listen on for their spoiler-filled conversation. Hello everyone and hello, Derek. Hey, how you doing? How you doing? I'm very, very excited to have a conversation with you. One of the first things that I thought of because Derek directed and shot the movie. So that alone kudos to you because it's an impressive-looking film, so it's a rarity to see a movie shot and directed by the same person. So are you intentionally following Stephen Soderbergh's footsteps? I feel like I was forced to do it. My first passion is photography and D-Pen, but I knew I really wasn't seasoned enough to feel confident to go to a company or someone to say, "Hey, I'm a D-P." So I felt like I wanted to write and direct my first thing and be able to D-Pen because so I can kind of work out the kinks and work out my insecurities and my ... It's almost like a practice, a kind of practice to kind of do. You also produced and financed this as well. Yeah. Practice on your own dime guys. Oh yeah, yeah. Because I always felt weird doing that, like taking someone else's money and kind of practicing on it because I know sometimes people will say, "Hey, if I've met people, they'll take a camera, like they'll use a red camera and they've never used it before, but they'll rent it for another production and use it for something else." And it's like, "Yo, you don't really know how to even use that camera." But they used it on somebody else's dime and I just always felt weird about that. Okay. Well, so having written it, directed it, shot it, produced it. How much do you feel of your vision that you achieved from what you set out to do? You know being a director, you never feel like you got everything, like even looking at it. It's hard for me to look at it because I know some of the mistakes, I know some of the gaps that need to be filled, but then when you write it and then shot it and then financed it, I'm like really going crazy in a whole lot of ways. So it's some things in there that... Do you still feel like it's a work in progress? Yes, but I'm not going to work on it for 12 years. Okay, good. I still feel like it's a work in progress. Talk to me about the ending. I have some ideas about it philosophically, but since we have the writer and director here, talk about what you wanted to do, like what was your intent, and now that you've done it, what do you think? I like the way it ended, but we did have an alternate ending, like one of the actors in here, Roberto, I don't know if Roberto is still in here, played one, and the AD Regina. We had an ending, but we changed it. And why? Why? We wanted to kind of give people an open ending, kind of ending, but we're going to re-release it in November, and we're going to have that other ending. Do you want to discuss it? Do you want people to discover it? I'll let them discover it. Okay. Okay. So he has a very stylized ending, which I think, again, philosophically, it works for people who want to imagine for themselves what this means. But he told me what the other ending is, and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, you've got to do the other ending only because nobody's going to see it coming." Yeah. It was, I felt kind of bad telling you, because she was like... I'm glad you did. And she was like, "Yes, I think you should go with that one, and it's so cool, because both of them, I think..." Yeah. Not that this ending is bad. I was like, "Whoa." Wow. It's very essential. Yeah. And I'm not mad at that, right? And I can see my AD smiling at me right now, because she's probably like, "Okay, we're going to rock and roll with it." So I feel good about it, especially telling you if I feel good. So how many days did you shoot? So it took us about 30 days to shoot. And one of the things that I'm trying to kind of have a philosophy of is more days, smaller crew. Yeah. It's kind of different now. Most people are kind of going with fewer days, kind of larger crew, like shooting. So I don't really want to kind of take that philosophy. I'd rather pay the talent, and pay locations, or pay set design, things of that sort. But no work in more days, because I feel like when you have actors that's trying to shoot 10 pages in a day, I just feel like they can't get into it. So I'd rather spend a little bit more money on sets or on locations, and then have the actor be able to focus on maybe shooting a couple of days at a time. It's the opposite of how everybody works. So talk to me about what your inspirations were when you wrote the film, and visually, what were some of the comps or films that you modeled or were inspired by? In writing the film, I was really thinking about, like you said, redemption. That somebody, usually when people make mistakes, they can't come out of them. But this, it was like, okay, with that ending, we were kind of like, should we have him wake up? Because we don't want him to die. But some people might want him to die. And so for me, it was like, I just wanted to have something where people kind of felt this character. And as far as who I like, I really like David Fincher. And just his look and kind of his, the way he tells stories and the way he can really put visually, he can put stuff. So I was hoping with this, and even when we do the re-release, just the, if you really didn't like the storyline, you could really say it looked good. If you really didn't like the way it looked, you could say it sounded good. If you really didn't, you know, so I wanted someone, you know, everyone to be able to walk away. I was telling Derek that this is my third time watching it. And I said, I'm going to watch it one more time, but I'm going to watch it on mute. So I can really see the visual language that you created. And I felt like there were a lot of snapshots in there. It's just, it's just so beautifully shot. You know, so is that from like your photography background? Is it, or is it like, Hey, I want to make this movie. I want to make this venture movie. And I want to infuse that into this movie. Yes. I mean, that's, you hit it, hit it around the head. Like I really just, to me, I think if, if a storyline, if someone doesn't get the storyline, at least they can walk away with something. They can say, man, it looked good, it sounded good. So that's what my inspiration is in this film and future projects is to really just be able to be like, Hey, you know, at least it looked good. You can only do that when you finance your own movie. Hey, if it just sounds good, you can walk away with that good feeling. So it's kudos that you can create that opportunity to do what you need to do to escalate like your craft. And thank you. And to me, just talking to someone like yourself who's directed and produced several movies, you know, saying that, that you really understood where I was coming from and, you know, because I'm not a seasoned writer, you know. So to me, when we were talking in the back and you were saying, Hey, you were telling me some stuff. And I was like, man, that, it made me really feel good. But then working with a lot of DPs, I know when you said, Hey, it looks good. You know, I can cut the volume off and, and it looks good because I always tell people with a commercial, I can, to me, a commercial is a really good commercial when you cut the volume down and just knowing that 30 seconds was what's happening in that commercial. So, so I, you know, that's, I really, really appreciate that you're telling me that. You know, I thought that it was a very complex portrayal of a troubled man, I think Marvin Gaye, you know, a troubled man. It is, you don't get to see this a lot in terms of emotional death and complexity in a black male character. And so talk about the inner turmoil of Mike's emotional journey and, and why was it important for you to tell a story through Mike? I think a lot of times me, me growing up, you know, you, you always hear sons that they want to be like their fathers and even though sometimes people are telling them your father wasn't really about nothing, you know what I mean? But they want to try to identify with them. They want to try to, try to keep, you know, saying like, okay, I want to be like him. I want to be like him. But if the world is telling them like, yo, man, he really wasn't about nothing. You should, and you, and you have good people around you. You shouldn't be worried about trying to identify or trying to be like him. So to me, that's why that ending kind of takes place because, you know, people want to think like, okay, his wife and the bad guy is going to, going to kill him. But you know, then he wakes up. But then on the other end, then this on the other end, then you'll really see, see what, you know, what happens. But what really motivated me was just, you know, I think a lot of, especially my friends, they, they, and how I grew up and where I grew up, they wanted to be like their father so bad, including myself. But you know, sometimes it's like, hey, man, you, you, you, you're blessed with having people around you that love you and, and you shouldn't even kind of try to take those footsteps of a, of a person that probably wasn't, you know, a grade A. Yeah. I felt his pain in, in, in terms of just his complexity and, and black men that I have known in my life and it's really just holding things in and not really able to have that release. So it's almost like this guy was sleepwalking in the whole movie. And so that's why I understand the meaningful ending when he wakes up. So. And, and a lot of times too, I didn't mean to interrupt you. And a lot of times they, I think they, they, they want, they want us to have a, how can I say this? A sad ending or have a, have a, have them around a lot of chaos that's, that's, that's with a family. But the family and his friends really, you know, were like, hey, you know what I mean? Like they were, they were really odd people. And especially like, say, once we, we kind of do the other, do the other ending, you'll see like, oh, okay. Like it really was about family. So talk about your locations cause I felt like the locations were like a character in the storytelling. And when you are doing lower budgeted storytelling, you know, sometimes the locations are limited. I never felt like that. I felt like I could always breathe and stretch and it's like, oh, where are you taking me now? So talk about how you pick these locations and why. So some of the locations were, we built the sets. So like the, I think the father's home, the psychiatrist and the diner, they were, they were sets. And then the, the other locations was what, Stone Mountain, East, East Point, it was, it was, we had like three locations, but they were really all in the same, same area. So, and we were trying to shoot, shoot in places that, because there's so much stuff shot in Atlanta. We were trying to kind of, kind of shoot in some unique places, but it's, it's, it's crazy that we shot in, in some, in, in places that, in areas that have, that have had a lot of things shot there, but we just shot them and that's the thing. I've shot all throughout Atlanta and none of this felt like Atlanta locations. So you were intentional about that. Yeah. I was, I was intentional and, you know, being born and raised in Atlanta. Like I, when I see a lot of these shows and I'm like, Oh, okay, that's Greenbride Mall. That's, that's, that's, and it's like, you keep seeing it over and over and over. So we're burning out in Atlanta. Yeah. It's burning out. So we were just really trying to find some, some, some other alternate locations. But, you know, I really, really like, like having sets built because, you know, because I think when you do that, you know, you're in more, you know, you're more in control of the lighting, you know, you're, you know, things of that sort. It's spoken like a DP. I actually love practical locations for, for storytelling reasons and discovery. But yes, you actually have more control when you build the sets and things of that nature. Because it was, it was a couple of times that, you know, weather, you know, like when we, we did the one shot, we didn't even, we, it took us how long to shoot that shot? It took us days because we had to shoot it and then we really didn't really like how it turned out on that because we, the window was just kept closed and kept closed and kept closed. So, like you were saying, but in a set, you know, we can go in anytime, you know, if we need to reshoot something, if we had to, you know, it was, it was easy, but, but like you say, the practical stuff, it, it, it is, it is, feels more natural, but, you know, that's why I was trying to hopefully when we shot it, the sets that you all didn't really feel, make it feel like it's a set, you know, like you were looking at a play. Yes. And where did the story take place in your mind? In my mind, it was, it was either South Carolina or South Georgia. Got it. Like, you know, city, city guy, you know, going down to, yeah. So that was, that was my, my little, my mind. I did not feel Atlanta at all. That's why I'm asking, like, where, where does this take place? So, thank you. It's a good job on that. So what was the most challenging aspect of the film? Oh, God. Um, um, yeah, the money, um, even though it's mine, quote unquote, but it was, it was coming up with that and, and respecting everybody, you know, respecting the crew, respecting the actors, um, you know, not, you know, and the actors, you know, they really did it for, you know, what they are, I felt like they did it for what they're not worth. You know what I mean? Like they did it for beneath their worth and, you know, like scale. Yeah. But yeah, definitely. Definitely. But, but we did it. Scale is not that low. But go ahead. I know. I know. But, but, but they, they did it. And I, no, I paid them a little bit more than that, but, but it was, I wanted to respect them because I always hear that, um, everybody wants to shoot. They want to shoot a movie, but they want to just pay, you know, uh, a, you know, to pay the AD a hundred bucks, pay the script, you know, something like that. And we wanted to respect everybody's craft because no one on, on this shoot, you know, we're just straight out of college, you know, they diesel were professional, professional people and I, and I, and I told, well, that's one of the beauties is shooting under these DGA contracts. Yup. You're going to get a DGA AD and their department. So it's going to be professional across the board, at least on that level. Yeah. So that's, that's pretty helpful. And I, and I had, I had someone here in the DGA, Beth, to really, to really make sure that, um, you know, every, you know, I knew everything I had to do, you know what I mean? And, and, and that's what with the DGA, I've always, I've been surprised on why certain projects don't want to do, you know, like don't want to deal with the DGA. And I'm not saying that just because I'm here. It's like, I always thought it was just this, this, um, frightening process, but you know, I talked, uh, talked to people and Beth and, you know, other people and it was like, it was kind of seamless. Like it was like, why wouldn't I want to, why, why wouldn't I want to do this? Why wouldn't I want to, um, go through a payroll service? Why wouldn't I want to, you know, like it was kind of, it's kind of, it's kind of, you know, weird. Well, most people think was very smaller budgets that they can't afford to go DGA. That's not necessarily the case. And then once you get into the DGA, you realize like, oh my gosh, they have healthcare, you know, and, and you can go see a therapist. You can, you know, you can actually go to physical therapy. Like it's, there's so many advantages of being in a DGA that most people are not aware of, um, or they become aware of too late. And it was funny. I, um, I thought the dues were like crazy high and, and, and when, and when I, when I was, um, told the dues, I was like, that's it. That's it. And they have a payment plan. Right. Hey, I'm on. Yes. Anyway, but yeah. So I think in the long run, it's very, um, advantageous to get into the DGA and then all you have access to while you're in the DGA, like screenings and seminars and all kinds of different committees where you can network. And so yeah, it's, it's more people should look into it, right? And it was funny when like you and I was, um, outside and we were talking, talking about some mutual people that we've worked with and who we knew. And to me, that's the cool thing about it because it is a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a club. Yeah. A club. Yeah. And so, you know, when you're talking to, to, we talking to each other, we're like, okay, he's in that club. She's in that club. Hey, we're in this club. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's a good thing. You know what I mean? So I, I thought it was, I think it's good. I, I, I, I, I, I, yeah. And, and, and they've really, really, everybody's really, really treating me, treating me good. That's, that's great. So, uh, what was the greatest personal satisfaction you achieved from directing this film? Um, just being able to finally finish it. So how, what was the process? How long did that take from script to, uh, exhibition? Um, tell the truth, uh, uh, tell the truth, um, about two and a half, three years. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it from, it was funny. We did a, um, a test shoot. We did a test shoot for one of the, uh, for one of the car scenes and no, no, no, no, we did a table read and then I did a test shoot and I was looking at the footage and I saw the date and I was like, wow. It was like two and a half, three years ago. Wow. Is it just getting the money together? Keep going? Yeah. Okay. So what I didn't want to do is I didn't want to just keep piecemeal in it and, and to me I just felt like that's kind of again, disrespecting, um, you know, everybody, like I wanted to make sure that everybody got what they wanted, you know, like what they, you know, like what they asked for, you know, and, um, because, you know, you and I, we talked about someone that we, we, we mutually know and, you know, and they, they just beat people down, you know, like they're, Hey man, can you, can you DP this movie for $50, you know, and things of that sort. And, um, and so it's, it's one of those situations that I didn't want to, I didn't want to do that to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to anyone. So I had to get the money up. So it was a, it was a, it was a gift and a curse because having to come up with the money, I mean, well, it takes, it took so long to script, just you keep thinking about it. You keep thinking about sometimes it's good that, you know, you write it, then you shoot it. Because as long as it, as it keeps going on, you got, you're like, man, okay, I can change this. So I can, you know, go to another location. I just met a, I just met a dude that, you know, we were going to use a L right and she wrote, now I met a dude that he has a Corvette, you know, so I'm like, Oh man, I want to use a Corvette now instead of the L right, you know, so, so it was, it was a, it was a, it was a curse because of that, but it was a gift because it took so long. I was able to kind of figure some things out that I, that I probably would have rushed or some shots that, that I would have, um, on set. I probably wouldn't have gotten, you know, if I would have not test them, had time to test them and things like that. So this being your first film, talk about what your process was working with the actors in terms of getting the performances that you needed, and especially now if it was spread out over time, how do you maintain specificity, you know, given, you know, time lagging. So being, that's why I was kind of blessed with having, um, the actors like Roberto and um, Miko, I don't know if Roberto is here, but, um, Is Roberto here? Is Roberto here? Okay. Cause that's, I directed him and BMF right. Yeah. Yeah. He gets around. Yeah. He gets around. So he's, he's the guy who kidnapped the, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He kept kidnapped Mike. Yeah. And, and so he, um, I was, I was blessed with having actors who you didn't really need to tell, tell too much to, you know, you didn't, you didn't really need to, to direct them. So it was, you know, that was a blessing to, to, to really have, have those, those kind of actors. So, so it was. So the director's job is to cast well. Yeah. Correct. Yes. I mean, you're right. She said it. Yeah. Cause I totally, I took, cause I, and if you notice, um, with this first film, I felt like, you know, it's a, wasn't a whole lot of characters, like it wasn't a whole lot of people. And I think, and, and I think a lot of times first, first film, first directors or people that do their first film, I think sometimes they be doing too much, they be doing too much. You know, they want to do a, a cry, they want to do a restaurant scene when it's, you know, when they want to do a party scene, you know, people doing the electric, party scenes that want to kill you, waste of time, waste of people, waste of money, and you got to feed them. Hey, hey, I'm telling you, I, and that was the thing I was like, um, I forgot the name of the, uh, the show that's on, um, man, I'm, I'm drawing a blank, but the M, uh, M night Shyamalan show on, um, Apple TV, but anyway, but that show, it doesn't have like five characters, you know, in, in, you know, that first season and to me that's like, that's like genius because, you know, you don't have to, you know, you don't have to do a whole lot. So for me, being the director and the DP, you know, I was like, okay, if you notice it wasn't too many, it wasn't a whole lot of people on, on, on the screen at the same time. What camera did you shoot on? The red. Wow. Did you borrow that? And you own it. Good. Hey, unfortunately, but yeah, I own it. Okay. Nice. Nice. So what's next for you? So you know, we're, we're going to re, uh, re re, um, launch, um, this in November. And um, and then in 2000, um, 20, what is 25, 2027, we have, uh, another, another movie that we go. We're going to launch. You're going to shoot it next year? Yeah. Yeah. Great. We're pre-producing right now. Okay. You get the money for that one. You're working on it. You're working on it. You're working on it. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. We're working on it. Yeah. Well, good. Well, congratulations. Thank you. And a wonderful film and go DGA. I know. Go DGA. Thanks for listening to another DGA Q and A. The director's cut is available wherever you listen to podcasts and please share, subscribe, rate and review. We'd love to hear your feedback and you can help fellow film buffs find the show. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time. This podcast is produced by the director's guild of America.