“Life Is Just So” (w/ Lena Dunham)

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie To Me. I'm Lexi Juanio, we're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa de Julio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my food days, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Kylie Breikman, Angel Jaretana, Jeremy Cole, Hanepash McDonald, and we're the hosts of the artists on artists on artists on artists podcast. The improvised character comedy podcast were each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. It's right up next to the microphone. I hear you get the elbows here, the eyelashes hate each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on artists every Thursday on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcasts. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I could talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Scam Goddess! Look, man. Oh, I see him. Oh, my. Oh, and look over there. How is that culture? Yes. Oh, wow. ♪ Last cultureistas ♪ Ding dong! Last cultureistas calling. I just want to say before we sort of launch into whatever this is going to be, what's making me really happy is that we're watching our guest consume her first ever Celsius. On ice and a glass. And it's a color. It's a color that serendipitously matches her outfit and shoes. And speaking of the word serendipitous, I've had this vocal stem for at least 12 years. I'm sorry. I don't want to go to serendipity and drink frozen hot chocolates with your uncle's girlfriend, who was a stewardess named LED. The build that is right there. In one line, I'm masterbot and dialogue. You build a build and build and oh, I've never forgotten that line of dialogue. I mean, among the other, among the legion of other sequences of words on that show called Girls. But can I tell you another shorter one? Yes, of course. And sometimes the gravity will be what hits. What do I want to be like you like mentally ill? Show your cruel drunk. It's crazy. And we really had to work with Allison to try to go back into the file cabinets of her brain when she was on. Yes, yes. Was that improvised line? It's crazy. It's crazy. But then you read this wonderful book. Famicick. And you get a glimpse into the creative process. Honestly. Here's the thing, everyone out there. You need this book. You actually need to read it. It's required reading. Not that there's going to be a test, but like consider yourself unprepared for the rest of your life going forward if you don't go out and get it. There's no test involved. It's just a book where, and I haven't had this in a while, it's one of those. It's a nodder. You're nodding every page. You recognize this. Yeah. You knowingly nod at a book like this, which I felt really refreshing. I mean, just to say, this is obviously a huge moment in the podcast. I mean, it's the creative of our favorite show. Creative of our favorite words. I mean, become a pal. In a true love at first sight moment became a pal. Yeah. We found love in an apple place. That's all we'll say. That's all we're going to say. Let's just say I have one photo. You know how like sometimes on your iPhone, like one photo. There's that thing of like this day last year, or sometimes it's not even a year ago. It's just like your phone just decides pictures that it's going to keep showing you. That's terrible. Our guest factors in too. Oh. That for me because it's just I'll just randomly be flipping through. And it's like, oh, there's a picture of me and Beau. Oh, there's a picture of me and Greta. And then there's Lena Dunham and Tim Cook. Just the two of them. A gorgeous couple. Have my nipples erect. And we have to unpack this on the anniversary of Apple's 50th birthday. And Apple's 50th birthday. Okay, we'll get into this. Today is the 50th anniversary of Apple computer. Is it really? And we're here together. Okay, so I don't know how much I can say before a drone strike happens right here. But firstly, I just want to say it's an honor to be with you. Are you kidding me? I'm a huge fan, a huge consumer of your content. I love what you do. See, that's the kind of thing where it's like we ear market immediately because I'm like, oh, okay, that's something that can happen. Yeah. I was begging for it. I was circling the building. But we spent two full and complete days together at the Apple iPhone launch. Yes. Which I kept saying we're here to understand the future. I didn't know what else to say or how to say it. Was that just what you were saying as a line to the people that worked there? Like, yeah, I'm here to understand the future. Well, I was saying to the people who worked there and then I started to believe it. And then I started to say it to be like, care about like you. Yeah. But I was like, I don't want to be left behind. I was like, when the future comes, I want to be there. When they're having us use the tools, I want to be the one running the tools. And I was like, okay. You're going to get a free iPhone. You can breathe. It's got a new lens. I saw you two walk in. There was a series of sort of public art arches. Colorful arches. And I was standing there awkwardly. My heels digging into the sod. And I saw you two. And I screamed a scream that was like pure pleasure. It was like if you were a wolf separated from your child in a Disney movie. And you encountered them in the forest after a full story. Yeah, 100%. That's how it felt. I will say I was like, I said to Bella and I was like, how gagged would you be? If it's just to go back to like 2013 and be like, one day we're going to see Lena Donovan event and be like, thank God. That's right. Oh my God. And I couldn't believe I was just sitting here in such pleasure because you're better at being Alison and me than Alison and me. Oh my God. But I will tell you I don't remember much, but I do know that I don't want to drink frozen hot chocolate. It's here in Dippity with your uncles, girlfriend who's a stewardess named Ellen. Yeah, no. Was an improv. Yeah, are you serious? Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle. Lena. Sometimes I remember it was we were really jacked up. It was the middle of the night. We weren't drinking Celsius, but something equivalent. And it just happened. I'm going to butcher this because in that same line of and that same block of script, you also say, and let me mind you, you're your cooked up, your characters, your hand is cooked up. And you looked me with your eyes and you lied to me with your eyes when you said by not saying anything at all. It's just that's of course that's all improvised and I'm like, but that's just that's just your brain. Well, that's so sweet. We also snorted a lot of lactose powder. Yeah, I was wondering. And you can't know what that does. Like Andrew and I recently talked about really we snorted milk. Yeah, tons of milk off a toilet that day. And what came later just had to be a sinus infection. Had to we I know we didn't feel good. We were also dead. We were dancing in a club that we arrived at five in the morning. So by the time we were sweaty, it coked up and dancing. It was seven thirty a.m. Yeah. So like this nightlife scene was actually us jacked up on lactose powder seven thirty a.m. And what happens happens in proving our face. Little face. Yeah. What is it with that? You do on repulse drag race. You did it. Realize your life. Realize your life. I think your supper. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. That also broke open. Crop mesh. I think for a new generation. Thank you so much. I remember when the shirt came out, we had amazing costume designer. Yeah. And she brought the shirt out. I was like, we could do a bra with it. We could take it. I was like, we're not doing anything with it. No, this is tits underneath. This is tits under. This is my tits are my accessory. Yeah. And also you don't know in your twenties how much they're going to change. You don't know. Yeah, your tits. Yeah. And I was thinking about this recently because I have a pal who lives with me who's in her twenties. And they were just up like champagne flutes. And I just looked and I was like, take advantage. Take photos. Yeah. When you're doing a TV show and they ask you if you want a bra underneath your mesh. Say no. Say no. Because someday you're going to be wearing three t shirts. Yeah. And sweater just to hold it back. You know. So on this topic, do you want to unpack the reason why your nipples went erect next to Tim Cook? It was crazy. It's okay if it's attraction. It was definitely like, he's got, what do we call it? Swag. Riz, whatever is going on. - Whatever that thing is gonna be next week. - But I also think like the panic of you have two minutes with which to properly engage with this person. I mean, I kept saying things like I love your products. I was saying things that I'd never imagined would come out of my mouth. - Of course. - And then I looked down and like for the first time in 15 years, my nipples were standing at a tangent. And I looked at the photo and it truly looks like one of those pictures you see of like a married couple that has moved to a vacation destination. - No, I know, I have it on my phone. - Yeah, you have on your phone. - This is a picture that I treasure. - Yeah, we look and I remember coming up to you and being like, I just took the picture with him. My nipples popped out and then popped right back in. Don't know why, don't know how. - Portrait mode. - He's got searing eyes. - Okay, so this is something I haven't said. - Like you incredibly blue searing eyes. - So about a few months later, I actually was at the same restaurant as him. When I was in DC, remember this Melissa came and we was saying back up for me on my tour, we're at a restaurant. - Thank you Melissa for your service. - Everyone goes and Melissa knew that I had met him at the event. So the waiter comes over to our table and goes, I do have to ask you guys if you're finished, if you don't mind, I never do this. It's just that Tim Cook has your table after you. And we go, what? And I was like, not sure they were supposed to do that. Anyway, I'm like, yes, we'll go, we'll go, we'll go. And then someone goes, are you gonna say hi on the way out? I was like, no, I am not. And then they go, well, why not? I mean, you've met the guy once. I was like, I am not saying hello to Tim Cook on the way out of here. I was like, I don't want to do it. - Well, not Tim and being like, we met for two minutes in a picture line. - Can you remember? - But everyone I was with was like, expecting it to happen. And so they described me running by him. Like he was standing at the bar. I got on the ground and basically used all my pads of all my feet and hands to like crawl out. And they were like, what you just did to not say hi to him is the craziest thing we've ever seen. - What's crazy is if I saw him in the wild, I would never recognize him again. And my brain, he looks like Steve Jobs. - Yeah, well, you're like, it can't be. - It can't be, but also his face, which was so clear to me in that moment, like we'd been waiting for each other our whole life, gone, disappeared into a puff of smoke. - No. - And it's interesting because we were there together and we didn't totally know, I mean, everyone was being really nice, but we didn't totally know what our job was. - No. - What are we here for? What do you want from us? I like clear instructions. - It felt like they'd be getting of the Westing game. Or like an Agatha Christie. - Yes. - The Westing game. - Well, I love the Westing game too. And you kind of just shot something through me. - That's our project we all do together. - Should we make a Westing game? - Did they ever make a movie of the Westing game? - They sure were. - I'm sure I looked this up. I think they did, Becca, can you look up if they did the Westing game, maybe in the late 80s, early 90s for television. - Well, I see these books that are like, part of a genre of like mysteries for children, like suspense for children. There was one that I loved. I don't know if you ever called the wolves of Willoughby Chase. - No, tell what it is. - Did that hit anything? It was like about a girl who, I loved books about like a girl who is an orphan and she moves to a house and something's not quite right. - Yeah. - And she gets out her little book and pencil. - That's exactly right. And I wanted to be that child. And the Westing game. And also, did you like the giver? - Of course. - The giver. Wasn't Taylor Swift in the giver? - She was in the giver. - Yeah, she was. - She played an important memory in the giver. - She played an important memory. - And remember his job. - She plays an important memory in all of our lives. - Of course. - I think about the giver 'cause she's a brunette in the giver. - Yeah, she is. - That's why you think about it. - That's why I think about it is because she was a brunette with bangs. - Yes. - And I loved it. - I love it every time she has. - Sarah, that doesn't get spoken out of her. - I mean, her giver. - Her giver. - It's rule of culture number 13. No one talks about Taylor's giver era. - That was so amazing a fast. It's amazing to be on saying that you're a fan of because I'm watching this thing I love, but I'm here. - Well, just to speak on that. It's funny because everyone did the girl's rewatch moment and that had to feel like- - But it's not going, I feel. - Yeah, well, it definitely started. I would say like 2022. It started to really catch fire. We're all rewatching this, but I wonder how it feels to know that at the time everyone was like, I don't understand how someone can be in it and capture it, but as a time capsule, it may be growing into its purpose even more as a time capsule of that era. - That is for me the greatest thing because if we think about it, I remember Judd Apatowan saying to me, you never really, we think the most important moment of anything's life is when it first comes out. And the internet's responding in people, but actually you don't know the role that anything plays until it's been in the world for a long time. - Right. - Like we all now recognize that my so-called life is the greatest teen show of all time. It was canceled after one season. My best friend Matt Wolfe did put together a petition which was signed by over 10,000 people that to try to get it back on the air, but shockingly was it ABC? - Yeah, ABC. - Didn't listen to a 15 year old head of his gay straight alliance in San Jose, California. - Not really a big problem. - And that's a big problem with television because that's who we need to be serving. - Because we would have had more than one season in Freakston, Geekston too. - Yeah. - Of course, we would have had more than one season have been lightened, but we can't have nice things. - Here's the thing, we were just talking, people are so much smarter than they are when they're like, hi, I'm promoting a movie and I'm behind it. It's like they walk off camera and they're like, I don't know about this. - Yeah, and then they, and even if it's a hit, sometimes they don't know about it. - Right. - Because some things that hit with culture are actually hitting on the worst parts of us. - Right. - And some things, and we now know that lots of brilliant actors have had to do things. So it's just an interesting thing to think like, there are things that hit and you go, everyone's talking about it, but what will be happening in five, 10, 15, 20 years. And when we were making girls, there was so much sort of feedback. It's probably more, we had more people reviewing it than watched it. - Honestly. - And I believe this and I agree. - The discussion was something that was paramount. - Exactly. And then it's really nice when something's out of its discussion phase. And now people are just maybe getting to like, watch it in a cozy context. And also they don't have to be reacting to the reaction, to the reaction or thinking, does this define what it feels like for me to be 24? Does this feel like it reflects, but actually can just engage with it as what it was. There's some TikTok sound where the girl's like, she's like, I don't know. I'm just being goofy. And sometimes they feel about the show. I'm like, I'm just being goofy. And when there's that much discussion, you're like, and now I think people can maybe go like, they were just being goofy. And actually that's more meaningful in a way. - Oh good. Because, but I think what we're just, what Matt's saying is like, you captured it while you were in it. And I think it's kind of, it's completely remarkable that you were able to maintain that sort of valence throughout, despite the discourse around it. - You can probably use a valence, you just, not me out. - I probably don't. - You'll always use valence and things like that. - It's so beautiful, it's beautiful. - But like, the fact that you maintained this throughout, and I was even laughing in the book where you were like talking about the last season, you were writing scenes that made no sense. Like, you know, Shoshana goes to this place. - Shoshana goes to a nudist camp, because of any show, it's so hard. And you're like, "I'm gonna really shock them." And then you're like, "This isn't chalking. "Shoshana wandered down the road to a nudist camp." You'll search her, remember. There was a lot of, I always knew where I wanted the show to end from the beginning, which is I wanted her to have a baby latching, but I was like, "How do we get there?" And what does that look like? And there was definitely some crawling around in the mud to arrive at. I mean, I remember just like, it was like a maniacal detective. I had 150, you know, index cards that I was spread. I have these pictures of me like, sitting in a sea of index cards on my floor, just being like, "What if we don't?" I remember one day, I was like, "Okay, I have a crazy idea. "We don't have a season finale." We do an episode nine, and then we stop. And they were like, "But that would then be the season finale." And I was like, "Okay, it's like my father told me a story "about when he did acid for the first time." And he looked at his friend and said, "What if we raise our children with no egos?" And they thought that they'd like solved it. - They figured it out, and they kind of did. - They kind of did, but you can't necessarily maintain that when you're not on a heavy dose of LSD. - See, yeah, they would have to just make sure that when the baby came into the world immediately, they give them the same dose. - Exactly. - I went to the sky, see, it's a dome. This is all fake. - This is all fake, do a full Truman show. But then I was having a, what if we raise our babies with no egos? What if we just forsake the season finale? Blow everybody's mind. - Yeah. - They're just, it's another day, it's over. - Yeah. - But you can't game the system that way. - Well, we all would have arrived at that same exact idea had we been showing, like creating, starring, running a show, directing episodes of the show while we were at the tender age of 25, 26, 27. - Definitely relating the book made me realize how crazy it is to give jobs to any consequence. And as I, again, another quote from my father, he says, "There are no art emergencies." 'Cause like, you know, people love to act like they're actually, like my aunt is an emergency room doctor. Sometimes she would have to treat someone who's like, leg got caught in a subway door. That is an emergency. - That would be, yeah. - Season finale, actually not an emergency, but it was still a job that involved actual, like, interfacing with many people and engaging. And I'm, I just look back and I go, that is, So, what's the problem? But like I see people are that age now and you know, you should still be inside your mother's body. Yeah. Right. Yeah. No, that's, you should be a Joey and a kangaroo. You should be a Joey and a kangaroo and no one should let you out till you're 32. Yeah. And so a lot of the book was grappling that and what was interesting was I was so judgmental of myself at the time and looking back, I was like, oh my god, like they're definitely remote. They're definitely low points. But they're definitely some moments where I was like, I should have been nicer to you. You were doing, you were trying so hard and it was going okay. I'm trying actually trying things. I mean, there were moments in that show where I was like, I would sit perplex with it. I remember just being a huge fan of the show and the first season had come and gone and the second season happened and there's an episode where your Hannah is at the cemetery and she sits there and she parrots back a story that someone else had told about their own grief to someone else. And the episode ended and I remember being like, at the time, I was like, I didn't like that episode. I can't believe she did that. And I didn't like that episode. And then now looking back, I'm like, no, I think I saw something true. And I think there's a testament to you putting that out there even at that age when you know discourse is really tough and you're judging yourself. There's a lot of checkpoints to get through when you put on your lead character who's like, you know, close to yourself doing an ugly thing. And she did a lot of ugly things and all those characters did. I always forget how many ugly things she did. And then someone was like, oh, I just watched the episode, came out between the street and they were like, I just watched the episode where she goes to her boss's funeral and makes it all about herself. And I was like, she did that exactly right. You can't go to somebody's funeral that you don't know well and make it all about yourself. And I remember that being that the scene in the cemetery, first thing I remember it because I fainted. And then the medic said, I think you're okay because you still have rosiness in your finger and now beds. And I was like, I don't think you are a medical professional. I think this on a TV set on it. I was like, I remember he laid me back and he was like, rosy nail beds, check? And I was like, I think we need to get some gatorade in this girl's stat. And I, so that is one memory I have, but the others I remember doing that monologue where she's like, my cousin had cystic fibrosis and I had to, which was actually a true, that story was a true story about my father's cousin that is real and sad that we then gave to Gabby, that we then gave to me. And I remember feeling sick doing the monologue because there were a couple things like there's a scene in the first season where Hannah tries to seduce her boss who sexually harassing her to turn the tables and reclaim and also try to like maybe get a bunch of back pay. Yeah. She's like, maybe if we fuck, then he'll have to look at me a ton of money. Yep. And I remember the scene and being like, who wrote this for me? Why am I do it? Why am I Richard Mazer, a kind, talented, um, seasoned character actor, I'm about to go in and straddle aggressively. Yeah. And then I saw him recently because he came and did a part in my movie and he was like, I haven't seen you since that straddling, but it was hard sometimes because I was like, also I knew that the valence was, is it a valence? I knew that the curtain between how people perceived her and perceived me as extremely sheer. Yeah, yes. So I also knew when I made those choices. And what I loved thinking about writing a book was also like Sasha. I mean, you've been Allison, she's the most career. She's hilarious and dirty, but she's also correct and polite. She wants everything. She needs to know better. She once got 10 to 9 is from writing too many thank you notes. That really describes her as a thank you note and her thank you note writing life. Her thank you note writing life. And she and Sasha is incredibly smart and thoughtful. And Jermima is her own iconic roamed and they were also down to clout like you'd go up to them and you'd be like today, you are going to get your ass eaten by your friends boyfriend. And they'll be all right. Here we go. The one time I remember we gave Allison a monologue where she was supposed to say that she lost her virginity at 14 and she was like, what? And I was like, yeah, she lost her virginity when she was 14 and she was like, that doesn't really square with like how I've been thinking about it very thoughtfully. She's like, you know, I've been playing her in one way. And Jermima came up and she's like, what would you've been doing if you knew she lost her virginity at 14? Hi. I'm Marney. And then she did this like voice of like the alternate Marney who talked like this because she lost her virginity at 14 and we were just like, okay, we're not going to be precious about this. No. We're just going to try it. And then she talked about losing her virginity at 14 and fucking crushed it. Yeah. It's going on in my, this is my take on what the person coming up to you saying, oh, I just saw the episode where about the funeral and this is and what Matt's saying about like, I don't like what I just saw. And then realizing in hindsight, that's me is like, I think the show kind of conveyed this better than anything else in our for our generation where it's like, the person you hate the most or the person that annoys you the most is would be you if they grew up and lived in your exact same circumstances. And I remember my first ever therapist, shout out Lisa Spiegel, she a truly important woman in my life. And I remember I was talking about a girl that I, I was not cool at school and I was like, there's this one girl and I just can't stand her and every time she sits near me and she was like, do you think maybe you recognize a little bit of yourself in her? And it was like, I mean, I was nine. So it was like saying what if we raise our kids with no egos and blew my fucking mind? But of course, and I've always been interested in, I remember like the first time I saw the British office, I was told you're allowed to do this. Like you're allowed to celebrate characters who are making insane mistakes. And I love when a character does not who, you know, when you meet someone and they're like, I'm a very empathic person and you know whatever comes after is not going to be empathic. Right. Or they say no offense and whatever comes after is going to offend you. How do you know I don't want to hear this then? 100% or when my brother last week started saying can I be real for a second a lot? And I was like, no, I don't like it. What are you the other seconds? Yeah. What was happening before and why is this happening to me now? But I've always been interested in characters who see themselves very differently than the rest of the world. Yes. Yes. And that gap. And it's interesting also because people now know that you're not allowed to sit. It's the same way that the daily mail stop being allowed to call you fat, so they had to call you voluptuous or zafdig or whatever other synonym they could come up with for what they used to say, which was like messy, fat lady. And now people know that they're not supposed to be angry if women are unlikable. There's a new word that is being used. Oh, what is it? That comes up in notes. Are they rootable? Rootable. Rootable. Rootable. Rootable. Meaning can we root for them? Is there any world in which we could want them to succeed? Correct. I think that is being likable and being rootable or two different things, but it was also always really interesting when girls was on to realize that people could accept the idea of like Tony soprano. They could accept the idea of Walter White, which is like a girl giving like an air and tan job was truly the biggest societal problem that we had. 100%. And I think that feels very quaint to people now. Yes. And also now there's all the like, I have main character syndrome. I'm the main character of my own like, like there's sort of a celebration of this kind of like delirious selfishness that before was considered a major character philosophy. I think there's like more room in the world. It feels to me. It's funny because women, it's women have never had more problems actually. Yeah. But on television, their space to wild out just a little bit more. I almost feel like people actually think that they, I think people think they love and support women because they watch television with them in it and then they convince themselves of something. And then the second they turn away, it's like, well, I've already spent my time thinking and supporting. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I think it's so much more prevalent than people think. And it is so interesting. I mean, they're, they're great theorists or looking at sort of like the gap between what we accept in media and what we accept in the world. Yeah. And what we support in media and what we support in the world. But it was interesting because when we were doing girls, it was kind of, you know, it was like, was Obama era? Everything was going to be okay. Try it. Yeah. We were on our way up. But everything, like, there was a, even though, of course, there was lots of consequence in the world that I didn't have a full, complete understanding of because I was like inside a sound stage and didn't know what time it was. There was, it felt like the world was, we were going to a women's march. We were having, being sent pussy hats, everything was happening. And now there's been a, a profound backtracking. I don't know if you remember something called me too, but I don't think it happened. Yeah. It's, it didn't reach a lot of corners of the world. Yeah. But, but we know that we're supposed to think that women can be naughty on TV. Right. That, that's somehow sustained. It's a survived that whole fucking. Yeah. And I want that. I want Rachel Weiss to be naughty on TV. Don't get me wrong. Always. That's why I'm alive. No one does it better. I mean, I was, I was watching her, I mean, direct to camera address from Rachel Weiss. No. We don't deserve. No. We don't deserve. Also, I love how the whole time she's like, I'm old and ugly and no one will look at me. And I was like, you're the single most beautiful woman. You're actually a famously iconic for your, like, I, I'll never forget the first time I saw her in the mommy movies. Oh. That's like, that's like an arresting image for all time. Like. She's almost more so if you're not even attracted to women 'cause you go, "What am I?" - Yeah, right. - "What am I?" - I know I have questions. - And they come from you, Ms. Vice. But that being said, yeah, she's an iconically beautiful but at the same time, any iconically beautiful woman who is over 50 is still dealing with these same things. - Right, but it's so funny to bring up, it's not funny. - Except for J-Lo. - Except for who J-Lo. Naturally. (upbeat music) - And now a quick break from our sponsor, Vital Proteins. - And it is vital. Collagen peptides is a wellness supplement that supports healthy hair, skin, nails, bones and joints. - When we hit 30, our body's collagen production starts to drop and that's when Vital Proteins steps in. - Their iconic blue tub is everywhere. People love Vital Proteins in part because it's so easy. - Just mix it into your coffee, tea, or smoothie and you're good to go. - Right now, you can get 20% off your next order by going to vitalproteins.com and using promo code, last culture beast does two zero at checkout. - Huge thanks again to our sponsor, Vital Proteins. - These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. - Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. - Oh my God, Lexi, we have a new podcast. I'm Lexi Iwaneo, we're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. - I'm not gonna get any worse than fighting. - That is wild. I learned that about you today. - Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. And I've always got something to say. - If man were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. - We're gonna talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. - We're best friends, but we don't always agree. - Because you told us how accommodating you are. - Obviously I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. - Don't lie to me. - Don't lie to me. - Don't lie to me. - Lire. - Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, I don't really care. - I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up, comedian, creator, and host of SCAM Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcast, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debris, Lamor and Morris, and Nicole Byer. - Ooh, I scammed them. - What? - I could talk to you for an hour. - You're a generational yapper, like me. - That's why I had to make yapping a job. - And the scams run the gamut. I'm talking about scams from the 1800s, all the way up to today. I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers. Call your grandparents, tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you. And I'm also here to laugh with you. So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to SCAM Goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. SCAM Goddess! - Hi, this is Kylie Breakman, Angel Jaretana. - Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald. - And we're the hosts of the artists on artists on artists on artists podcast. - The improvised character comedy podcast were each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. - Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. - What I try to do is foe journal. I don't know, I think I sort of foe journaling. - Yeah, it's reading, it's called reading. - So you're, so we don't like to use that word anymore. - Okay, a panel of New Yorker cartoonists. - Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? - No! - I've been dying too. - I'm so sorry, I'm seeing a reading of Sadako in the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audrement Donald at the Wonderland Bookstore, 14. - That's crazy, I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Doctor 30. - No way. - Patrick of the last bookstore though. Kim Control is reading the guitar tabs. - Oh, but yesterday. - A panel of Eurovision participants. - And we do a little Halloween sometimes. - Does the Pope dress up? - He winks on Halloween. - It's right up next to the microphone. - I hear you get the elbows here, the eyelashes hate each other. - You've never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. - Listen to artists on artists on artists, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - I'm Hamza. - And I'm Martin and we're the hosts of Out of Care. - It's a podcast, I know. There's a lot of them to listen to these days. - How are you gonna get to us? - Well, there's a specific reason why you should listen to us. - We are the best podcast in the entire world. I swear. - I know, bold. But why don't we list some of the things we might talk about on a regular episode? - So sometimes we'll talk about, I don't know, the Uber driver we just had. - And how nice they were or if we tip them or not, come and find out. - Sometimes we'll talk about that weird news story from last week. It's the one you're thinking about, trust me. Or maybe we'll talk about music and what's happening in the underground or drama and music or TV shows or the Med Gala and what the actors wore. What we're saying is we're not afraid to talk about everything under the sun. And if you wanna see what that's like, come join us. It's a place where everyone can hang out, anyone, wherever you're from, whatever you're like, you're welcome. Listen Out of Character from Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Pods, or wherever you get your podcasts. But I feel like you just had this locus of chaos happening around you, around the time of this quote unquote, reckoning with me too, where it's like, the show ends, this relationship is on the out. Like all of these things about your body are sort of coming to light for you. Like, that was my takeaway from the book was just like, oh, how are you writing this within such clear, gorgeous detail, while you're talking about how you are in this like long dissociative state and how you've grown up with like these little flashes of dissociation, like hospital feeling. - Yeah, hospital feeling, thank you for. - Something is going on with me and I'm ignoring my basic needs while I'm making this show in the name of ambition and all these things and I have to prove something right about the way the world sees me and sees this show. Now that like the dust is settled, like, I hope you're so proud of everything. - That is a beautiful thing to say and thank you. And I think, I think that was really lovely about writing the book was I had a really long time to do it. I mean, I wrote my first book in eight months, I wrote this book in eight years. - Which we also loved. - Thank you. - Love, not that kind of girl. - Thank you so much. And I don't only want, I didn't want to do it for the sake of, you know, there's, I've been asked to do like, do a girls rewatch podcast, get together with the girls and I mean, people love nostalgia and I love nostalgia and like, do I want to watch the whole cast of OC, respond to episodes of the OC? Yes, I do. - Tate Donovan, come back. - Tate Donovan, I want to watch Tate Donovan watch anything. - Yes. - But I'm interested in like forward motion and forward progression and so I haven't, maybe there will be a time when I go, I'd like to live watch every episode of Girls, but I haven't gotten any yet. - Yeah, yeah, that's okay. - But I only wanted to write the book if I felt like I had something to say about the larger machine in which women are working and which people are working about like the larger, I do think that Hollywood is a microcosm and it reflects the way the industry works, the way that we see people reflect things that exist in a lot of parts of the world because it's like where the center, it's interesting because Hollywood is this very kind of comparatively small industry where we have chosen to center our attention. It's a distraction, it's an indulgence, but it also has something bigger to say about the way that we live. And so I only wanted to write the book if I felt like I had something to say about all of that and about while also being hopefully thoughtful about the fact that like a tiny thousand tiny violins play for the girl who's like my TV show was too hard. But so thank you for saying that and it was interesting to realize how much I did do. I had always had, I talked about in the book, I had always had dissociative episodes throughout childhood. The more that my life picked up and the more stress was involved, the more they happened. But I think at the time I thought ignoring your basic needs was correct. I thought like if you're really good at being a person, you can suppress and override everything that you need in order to be comfortable for the, and you know, we've all been sent a million signals about what ambition, what's important, what ambition means, what, you know, who we have to be in this sort of in I'm about to say under capitalism, send me to jail. But um, and so I-- - To capitalist jails. - Yeah, send me to capitalist jail. - I did, prison. - Send me to a private prison where they'll treat me the way I've always treated myself. But, but I want to tell you that something is happening inside me, not a bad way, good way. But I just kind of like, my nipples aren't correct, but I did stand at attention. - You felt the free song. - Yeah, like is there a moment when you're drinking your Celsius or you go, it's on? - Yeah, whatever. - Yeah. - You starting to buzz? - Yeah, it's a little bit like when you try drugs for the friends of your first time and you go, is it working on you? Is it working on you? - It's working. - It's working. And also because I'm sober and now thanks to you. this one. Vape free. Oh, is this where we, is this where we entray into this discussion? Okay. I was just going to say one, one more before we do that. I just want to say the one thing about girls that, it's so much of it terrified me at the time because I was like, I'm, I think I'm feeling uncomfortable because it's me. A lot of it was Marnie. I, I know. Are you a Marnie? Yeah. What are you? I think I'm, I'm probably a show. I was gonna say that. Yeah. And you know, I've been public about fact that I'm a show. You're a show. I mean, you told us this. Yeah. I'm a show. You're a show. I've grown into a show. Yeah. It's kind of like, it's not to, not to invoke, but it's like with the Hogwarts houses, my, my whole thing was like, listen, yeah, I was born a Gryffindor. Yeah. In my 20s, I was a slither in. Right now, I'm a Hufflepuff. I will die a Ravenclaw. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, that's sort of what it is. Yeah. It feels like it's like that with the girls' girls. Yeah. Well, like in my, in high school, I was a Charlotte. Yeah. Then I turned into a Samantha. Yes. Had a moment thinking I was a carry. Uh-huh. And I will be a Miranda for the rest of my life. Oh, 100%. But I guess even maybe up to the part where she gets together with Cheg, you know? Yeah. I think we can't, we can't rule it out. My husband is maybe a Cheg. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. He doesn't want to hear that. Right. Who does? He's fingering you in the kitchen. I could. It could happen. I'm sorry. I don't need to talk about your marriage. I'm sorry. When you said it, I was almost like, I was almost like, let's call him. Like, I don't know. I'd love to talk about marriage. Well, I guess we're five years in. Thanks, release. They things really settle in. Yes, simmering. Yeah. I guess what I, what I, what was the big pull for me at the end when I was like really sitting with the end in the rewatch, too. I confirmed. I was like, wow, you don't stay friends with everyone forever. And the fact the fact that my audience calls it the great scattering. Yes, the great scattering. She does call it that, but that whole last season is kind of about like them realizing that I imagine. Like, you know, I mean, like they're moving into their different lives. Like all of a sudden, there's something solidifying hearing you didn't know was coming now, but it is coming now in this sadness that comes with that not even the acceptance, the idea that you might have to accept it. And that I think is one of the truest things about the show. I don't know about you, but I held on really tight. I was really scared for the great scattering. I held on. I mean, I think my friends and I talked to each other in our 20s. If I look back, it's like people in a relationship. It's like we're act. It's like I feel like it's been a little strange lately and you're not responding to me the way. And it's like now I would never say that to a friend in a fucking million years because I'm like, you've got a big, complicated life for all trying to just get through this thing. And it's what happens. And you know, the show was also interesting because it was all about these friendships, but I was also literally always on set. So the friendships I talk about this, the friendships that it was about were then affected by the fact that I wasn't around. And then it was this big. It was like I went to sleep one day and then or like stepped on to this into Hannah's apartment one day. And then I got out when I was 30. And I was like, I'm back guys. And they were all like, we're pregnant. Like you are looking for a boyfriend on Delancey Street. We're pregnant. And I was like, anybody want to hear about my hysterectomy? And they're like, we are wearing clogs in Brooklyn together. And I remember feeling like going to my friends and being like, I'm that weird aunt lady that's like comes in and she's like, I've brought you guys scarves. I was well, I was traveling and you know what that means? Little gifts for everyone. My mom had a friend. My mom had a has a lot of wonderful eccentric friends. But I remember she had one friend who didn't have kids who came over once because she wanted to take some photos of our hairless cat to work into an art, a video art piece naturally. Well, yes. And she was wearing like full isy Miyaki pleats, please. And she's I saw a tattoo on her hand. And she was like, she was I loved her partially because she was the only chubby woman that I really knew because downtown was not right for those. But also she was wearing isy Miyaki pleats, please. And I said, I like your tattoo. And she said, do you want to see my others? And she dropped her pants. And she had like a full, like a constellation of all of the constellations on her, like, big, beautiful ass. The universe on her ass. And I was like, that's what I want to be. I would never drop my pants in front of a child. No, I want that to be the, if you did, you'd be her. If I did, that was a different time. But if I, but I do, I got comfortable with the idea of like, I'm going to come in to take a picture of your hairless cat for a video art piece. And you're going to say, do you, and they're you're going to say, what's that tattoo? And I'm going to say, I've made some mistakes. And it's just a matter, I've made some mistakes. It's just a matter of if your friends want to stick around for that. 100%. I think the show girl is about a friendship, a group of friends sort of, I mean, friendship is entropic. It's like, it's, it's just inevitable. And I think that's what the book is about. It's about like a friendship sort of sort of splitting up. And that's, that's kind of, that's like the most universal thing you can write about. I remember when saying to my mom, like, it's so sad. I used to know all these people that I don't know anymore. And she's like, that's called being alive. Yeah. Living. Like she was like, have you ever heard of like Judith Garegan? And I was like, no, and she's like, well, she was my best friend till you were three. Yeah. And then she drank a lot. There's, that's a need. Yeah. I used to look, I used to look at other human being in the eyes and say, we will die together. I haven't spoken to them in 30 years. Yes. By the way, we don't speak outside of this. I know. I know. And the thing about whether your friends want to stick around for that, like that's one of the reasons I think I've had such prolonged and beautiful friendships with queer men is because since my life didn't necessarily conform to some of the milestones that I thought it would. Right. Being friends with people who had a different idea about what family and adulthood could mean was like deeply important to me. Yeah. There was commonality there where you may have tried to find it somewhere else. I thought that I was supposed to be. And by the way, I love all those women and they're still my friends. But I thought I was supposed to be in, um, in Bushwick, but have moved out of the small place into the townhouse and be wearing the clogs. And actually, I was supposed to be at the S.L.N. resort in the hot springs with a buff, acupuncturist. Yeah. Of course. Yes. Talk about the baby. Shout out to Russell. I just, yeah, I just feel like in, it's just in terms of like the way you write character. It's like obviously there's a couple huge. The book is really about like relationships and there's two relationships that you just, you lose by the end of the book. But what I wanted to say was you've always created some of the like best characters of our generation. But the way that you write these people in your life, it's like such a beautiful thing, a testament to the place that they held in your life. And I feel like if you have anything in you and I'm sure you do, I'm positive you do, which is like nervous about how they're going to receive it, which of course you are going to. Because of course, whenever you make something, you make it for like two people and there are probably two people who won't even look at it. That's life. But the thing is like the way you've written them is so beautiful because what I love about what you do, even if sometimes you were fighting with yourself because you might feel a different way about these two people on any given day, it's like it feels like you always held true to I'm going to try and 360 flesh this person out as much as you can because you know, with these relationships like Jenny and Jack, you get a sense of both they're humor, you get a sense of both their positive oddities, you get a sense of them on all of their best days. They're the two funniest, most special, most defining relationships of 20 to 30. I mean, your first romantic relationship where you feel deeply understood is like the most precious thing that can ever exist. You're like, oh, I thought I really had a crush on that guy in 10th grade. But this is the first time you make a life with someone, the first best real, but adult best friend you have. And I hoped that I could show like why I fell in love with them. Yeah. And also that it couldn't. I was quoting Casey Musgraves to you earlier saying that when she got divorced, it's a soul connection that didn't work out. Yeah. And that doesn't I think like love is I think if you love someone really deeply, firstly, we know that if when two people get divorced or something and they're like, I fucking hate them, you're like, that's because you were obsessed with them and your obsession had to energy cannot be created nor destroyed. And therefore it had to transmute into something. And my goal has always been not to have that transmute into something negative and also if I didn't feel that deep love for them, I'd have to do this like grand erasure of all these memories. And I remember I dated one person after my breakup and it was like a quick. It was one of those four months, like four months that could have been 50 years. Yeah. And afterwards I deleted all the photos. And it's the one time I've done that and I regret it so much because it's like, there's this whole in my life that I just in this moment of rash, maybe you can call Tim Cook and you can get them back. Yeah. Honestly, he's got them. I did the same thing. I did it with, I did it with text messages and a lot of photos. And I go back and forth now on whether or not that was the right thing to do. What was the right thing for you in the moment because you knew that you were not, you could not trust yourself with them because I was obsessing. Yes. And I think that like, you were self harming through nostalgia. That's really what, what it was. And I, I knew, I knew in the moment that that's what it had become. And so I was like, I think in order to set myself free from this, I have to do this. But as someone who does, you know, see value looking back and being like, oh, and also just like the way you talk positively and the way you drop up what it feels like to finally get comfortable in a relationship, like actually made me look back on like one particular X that I, you know, kind of have exclusively like hard feelings about. Yeah. And reading what you wrote about like an old relationship and I was like, oh, like one good thing I can say is like, I really like like being silly with him. They're like, I was thinking something when I was reading your words, like, oh, that person when someone sees you silly, when the movement of it all, the movement of it all, the names that you give each other. And like, you know, it's like, it's, it's, it's, you're, you can't replicate that. And I ran, I was once just, I was at the Toronto Film Festival. It's some one of the places that I've been in my life. I don't know what to say. And I ran into my ex boyfriend. I was with my husband, and he was watching. And then this really into this way he was like, you guys were being so funny together. Yeah. And you just get back into this like, in a way, when you've had a long-term relationship with someone, especially through a very pivotal moment in your life, there's things that they will only, like, there's certain facts about my aunts, particular, my aunts, Bonnie and Susan, who are very important complex female characters. And I will, something will happen with Bonnie and Susan will be like, this is the only person who could possibly understand how funny this is. And do you reach out? Sometimes I think that it's, I don't like to have a blockade. Right. And I, you know, I try to do it in appropriate doses. I'm not like, I'm not like, hey, came across this photo of us really made me think, I think that's aggressive. Yeah. That's aggressive. That's a married man. Yeah. From a married woman. Psychotic. And I'm totally capable of that. I just have to reel it in. We've seen the show. You know, like, there's a part of me that could 100% be like, there's funny things that you go, this is a value that we remember this. And it's, I remember when my father's, my father's parents died and then his brother died. And he was like, there's nobody else who remembers what it was like to be in my family. First, he kept saying, I'm an orphan. And I was like, okay, you're, you're 70. So I don't know if you get to claim that title. Everyone wants a title, these days. But, and that's the thing is it's really beautiful to have people who remember, even if they remember differently. And my goal in the book was to show how much they meant. And how much love there is that still exists for them will also. And I'm sure that someone could give their account. And it would be the same events, but with an extremely different, I mean, that's the amazing thing about the world is like, we're all looking through our own eyes. I'm on acid. No, no, no, but I think I, we're on acid too. I'm like, it's called. There was also so much in like, you're, you're working relationship and close, close, close friendship with Jenny that like, I texted ball. And I was like, are you really? Is it better relevant stuff? It's about relevant things. Well, I think the thing that I've learned. And I mean, those creative relationships that were so intense, they were like marriages. They were like all these, it was like I was, it was like I was in a polyamorous relationship. I mean, it was and in a way I look back and I make that was my primary relationship. And then I had a secondary relationship, which was a boyfriend. And then a tertiary relationship, which was my dad. And so that is, oh, that's a wild thing to look back on. And creative relationships, you do know really well, require just as much if not more emotional maintenance. Like, when you're married to a straight man, there's so much that you just don't even have to say my brother's like, it must be so relaxing to be married to a straight guy because they like are not really picking up on anything. You don't have to. Like, it's like, when I've heard nothing means more than it does. That's exactly right. When I remember on queer couples, they're like, you moved your eyebrows, are you feeling a little bit destabilized? And like, you can just hide in your own house for days with a straight man. The studying of punctuation. Forget it. It doesn't mean anything. If a queer, if a queer man or a woman, like, like, is texting you in a, like, punctuation way that is out of the order, I'm like, oh, something is deeply wrong. Oh, yeah. No, it's, my husband will just send a text that he doesn't. It's just one word, inexplicable word, because he hasn't looked back. And I will look back at a text and be like, did I say what I meant to say? The amount of texts I had it. Just sending out word and meant to send the recipe didn't last. He just sent me a picture of a broken window in our house with zero explanation. And I was like, were we robbed? And he was like, no, no, it was a wind issue. And I was like, you need to lead with that. But in the relationship with another woman specifically, the amount that you're picking up, it's like this insane, it's like whatever's traveling between machines at the Apple headquarters. It's like this insane level of information and subtlety and, and also in creative relationships, you're in each other's heads in a different way. You've been your smartest with that person. They know your, they've been your smartest. You've been your dumbest in the middle of the night. You've been your most petulant. You've been your most elegant. You've been your most brave. All of it. It's really amazing. And I think they require a very specific kind of care and maintenance. And that's why I'm sending you to Esther Pearl. Oh, brother. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my god, Lexi, we have a new podcast. I'm Lexi, you want to wear two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa, Julio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. I'm not going to get any of your fighting. That is wild. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Lie. Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't really care. I'm Lexi Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast, the True Crime Comedy Podcast, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debris, Lamor and Morris, and Nicole Buyer. Ooh, I scammed them. What? And the scams run the gamut. I'm talking about scams from the 1800s all the way up to today. Call your grandparents. Tell your parents to stop clicking on links. Please. So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to Scam Goddess on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Kylie breakman, Angela Jaretana, Jeremy Colhane Cash McDonald, and we're the hosts of the artists on artists on artists on artists podcast. The improvised character comedy podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. I think I sort of faux journaling. Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So you're so we don't like to use that word anymore. Okay, a panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? No, I've been dying too. I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako in the thousand paper cranes by Auderman Donalds at the Wonderland bookstore. 14. That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland bookstore yesterday and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of zero dark 30. No way. We have to come to the last bookstore though. Kim Katrol is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. A panel of Eurovision participants and we do a little Halloween sometimes. He, he winks on Halloween. You get, I hear you get almost here. The eyelashes hate each other. You've never seen it least so quiet as when the pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on the I heard radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hamza and I'm Martin and we're the hosts of Out of Character. It's a podcast. I know. How are you gonna get to us? Well, there's a specific reason why you should listen to us. We are the best podcast in the entire world. I swear. I know. Bold. So sometimes we'll talk about, I don't know, the Uber driver we just had. And how nice they were or if we tip them or not, come and find out. Sometimes we'll talk about that weird news story from last week. It's the one you're thinking about. Trust me. Or maybe we'll talk about music and what's happening in the underground or drama music or TV shows or the Med Gala and what the actors were. And if you want to see what that's like, come join us. Listen to Out of Character from Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Pods or wherever you get your podcasts. During the therapy scene, I was like, because we've talked, like Ed. There's particular moments there have been like, well, maybe we should see a council or a therapist, like, or someone that, and then we land on like mediator. It's like those things where like, you know, the relationship like needs something, but you're not ready to say what kind of person and then you're like kind of filtering through the sand. And I'm like, well, what is the difference between these people? - And you're like, maybe it should just be a friend who likes us both to talk it through. - But then that, just to save on like the explanation that you can, but there is something, I mean, also going to therapy with somebody that you work with is a big choice because you go, okay, I'm really proclaiming the significance of this dynamic because we're in a therapist's office together. So you two have never been to therapy together yet. - Oh, no, we've gotten far along in the process, but then inevitably things pop up and we're like, okay, we gotta address this and we will be together and we can, we can work this out ad hoc as necessary. - We can work this out amongst ourselves. - Until we really need to, like my therapist says she doesn't think we need it. - By the way, I trust that. - Yeah. - And also it seems to me as a passionate viewer that you're doing fine. I'm not picking up on any tension right now. - It's not like, okay, great. - What I will say is that whenever there is a period of tension, it does break and it blows and we're always literally 50 times better afterwards. I sometimes wish it didn't have to get there, but I also think that we get better at communicating every time. And as we know, that's what it is all about. - Well, also it is all about that. And I don't know about you. I am extremely conflict avoidant, except for, I saw this. - Don't love it. - I don't love it. I saw a meme that was like, this man did something and he's about to see the woman that only my father knows. And that's truly like, I think if you have a, as a woman, if you have a comfortable, it should be another, like I have yelled in a way that's like blown the hair back on his head. - Oh, forget it. - And I can't do it with, and he said to me before he's been like, you need to go in there and act like you act with me. Like a fucking bitch, like, but it's really hard. And I think one of the reasons I love writing conflict, like I've never been in a four way scream off, like happened at the beach house. I would pass out, I would dissociate, I would go to another plane of existence. - I remember the first time it happened with you, when Allison and I guess it was the penultimate episode of one. - You were the wound. - Yeah, you were the wound. - Bruce or Kaplan's great line, you were the wound. And I remember doing it and feeling sick, even doing the scene, 'cause I was like, I don't wanna yell at you like this. I love you. - I thought it doesn't know the difference, yeah. - But no, and you're like, this feels horrible, but then also it's so fun to do, because you're like, this is a world in which I somehow feel comfortable screaming in my friend's face and telling her all these things that I used to always say to like anyone who would list, I'd be like, and then I was like, and then I was like, and they'd be like, did you actually say any of that stuff? And I was like, no, I was like. - I was like. - I was like. - I was like. - Oh, no, you're always, you're always in, you're always like truly, truly like a Kate Blanchett performance in your mind with someone else. - Oh. - Or like, like, like, Shonda rhymes in on the best seasons of Grace, like turning to someone and being like, I'm giving it to you exactly succinctly, and I can feel proud of the way I express myself. - One of the great moments of my life, despite the fact that my wig on Scandal was not ideal, is that I delivering a Shonda Rhymes monologue, and it was like, yes, I am a woman who loves sex, but am I a slut? No, and it was like, I don't deliver it to beautiful, Carrie Washington, all my might. And then of course, I had to get my throat slug, 'cause I was a slut. - You died on that? - Yeah, Huck killed me. - Huck killed you for the sin of being a slut? - You got your throat slug because you were a slut. Huck killed me because I was about to kill someone else. - Oh, well then. - Who was trying to kill me? - Getting killed by Huck is hot, though. - Damn. - It was amazing. I had a backpack of blood, and then they made this thing, and suddenly there was like a man who pulled a thing and blood squirted from my neck. - It's so fun. - Have you died on screen? - No, I want to, so badly. - I've died twice in a, in Scandal. - Yeah. - And in American Horror Story. - Oh, the dreams. - I mean, and when I died in American Horror Story, I rotted from the inside, and what it involved was, I'm supposed to have maggots in my eyes, so they glued my eyes shut and covered them in white rice. And then there was a PA whose, this person deserve, I mean, whoever you are, I couldn't see you, so I'm sorry, but I'm gonna speak directly to you. Thank you for what you did. I want to thank you. You led me around by the back so gently all day long, making sure I didn't trip over any scenery while I rotted from many angles. - There's a guy, for everything, as you say. - There's a guy, for everything. - I'm speaking of dying, but not the vaping. - Okay. - What do you want to say here? - Sure, so I want to say, we're on a text, Jane. - We are. - Do you want to revo what it's called? - It's called Life Is So, which is a quote. - Life is just so. - Life is just so. - Which is a word, which is another gorgeous turn of phrase by Ms. Lena Dunham. - Thank you so much. I leave 'cause we were at Apple and I just went, "Life is just so," and then you created our text chain, and then it's just so. - Life is just so. - So we're on life is just so, and I just, I like, sometimes if I feel like they're too far, I just like to pop in. - And it's the best moment of my life. - Oh, I appreciate that. - So mine, that I'm there. And I said, "How are you?" And you let me know that you had been going through an experience with someone you were dating, who was a phraser. I'm allowed to say it. - No, no, please, we can bring, we can invoke phraser. - So phrases had an incident that a vaping induced lung infection, evil. - So basically what happened was, and some people might not know this, but so phraser, phraser was a, he was a vape artist. - Yes. - And like so many out there. - Yeah. - And basically, the cartridge, essentially like, this can happen when you're sucking on the vape. - And listen, I'm gonna look at the camera again, listen to this man. - The like, oil from the vape cartridge can, basically leak into your lungs and it's poison. And so when we were at BravoCon, and I can say this because he is set all of it, and this is all about his health, and it's public, and I would never share anything if he hadn't been public about it, but we were at BravoCon. - I stole his medical records. - Melissa and I were there, and we were all there together. I was actually announcing that the cultural wars were coming back, he was obviously there for below deck, it was exciting. - A fun moment. We're a power couple, we're at BravoCon. - You know, I wasn't even going with the idea of like, and we're gonna take a photo on the carpet. He wanna take a picture together, I was like, let's do it, I put it on my Instagram, then all of a sudden, that very weekend, people were like, oh, Matt and Fraser are dating. As that was happening, and I know this is gonna sound dramatic, he had a heart attack in front of us. - Doesn't sound dramatic, it's true. - It's traumatic is what it is. - And I feel like what people don't know is it's like, or if you know, you obviously know, 'cause it's horrifying and it's hard to explain, but you don't know what heart attack is happening every time. It's like, he was, he had very intense chest pains and like couldn't get comfortable, and you know, it was short of breath, and had to bail on the whole night with us, and we checked in on him later, and it was ongoing. And so I'm thinking like, is this stress and anxiety, whatever, we find out much later after tests come in that essentially because of this poison, not gotten his lungs, he had what was the equivalent of a heart attack. And it was really bad, and we were in the hospital until 5, 5, 30 in the morning, we really had only been dating for about three months. - Which is also really intense because it certainly, you hall lesbians things up a bit. - Oh, 100%. And so we were already like really enjoying being together, and then there was this health stuff that entered. And so that accelerated things, and you know, now where we're at is, he was, he's off. I can't say where, but he's, you know. - He's got a secret, tropical location. - Yeah, he's creating the television program, many people like, and I'm gonna see him soon, but while he's been gone, and I've been sort of busy doing my own thing, we kind of did like take a little bit of space, just because of how intense everything had gotten, and like personal things. - And you had to go into caretaker mode, and he's grappling with this terrifying change to his body, and it's really intense. And you shared just the littlest, thank you for sharing, and you shared just the littlest snippet with me. - Yeah. - And I didn't know you had been addicted to the, to the stuff. - Oh, when we were at Apple, I didn't have my vape, 'cause I was trying to be elegant. - Right. - And when, do you remember we got in the car, I was like sweating, like I was like, can someone get a gas station? Can someone find a gas station? - Oh my god, we have to stop. - We have to stop. - Because I had been off the vape for like 24 hours, and I was losing my mind. So I stood, I'm a, was a, uh, L-I-L-V, a little, a late-in-life vapor. - Right, in my vapor. - I started vaping on the set of a little television show called "Industry," because-- - Yeah, 'cause you were direct dressed? - I was direct dressed up, but also it was of, it was in whales, people love to party in whales. - Yeah. - I had been-- - Don't I know about English people? - You know about English people. - Yeah. - Hello, Fraser. - They love sucking those things. And a friend was like, oh, you don't drink, you don't smoke, you're sober. You know what, this is this, it tastes like candy. It doesn't do anything to you except put you in a great mood. Like literally it was handed to me like it was a ring pop. - Yeah. - And then-- - And then it looks like a toy. - It looks like a toy, it lights up. It makes noises. And I went, great, am I anxious all the time? Sure, do I like to do something with my hands? Absolutely. And I became a person who would like wake up with my vape under my pillow. And I was not proud of it, I was embarrassed about it. I used to like hide it in my sleeve during meetings. I mean, it was really became like a pacifier. And I had this, I stopped, I started. I'm also a chronically ill person. I have no business. I mean, I have practically no business drinking Celsius. This is the craziest thing I've done in months. Sorry - Oh, it's, I love it. (laughing) - New vice unlocked. - Yup, but I was in this on-off relationship. I stopped, I started for one minute. I was like, you know, it'd be healthier than vaping, rolled, cigarettes, that's insane. But I was married to an English man, so. - Right, right, right. - And he quit and I still couldn't, it was, and I kept, I was in a shame cycle with the vape, and I was sitting there just sucking on my vape, texting my boys, and you said this, and I, because I am dramatic, I literally took the vape, and I dropped it into a cup of water, so that I couldn't retrieve it. And I went, today's the day it stops, and I've not taken a puff since. It's been. - You're incredible. - Thank you so much, but you did that for me, because, you know, everyone else is like popcorn lung. It's a little abstract. (laughing) We don't know what happens. - You know, you can understand heart attack, and I've never understood it more than when it was happening in front of me. - And also, I could feel the urgency, and you said to me, I'll never forget, you go, these things are so much more evil than we know. We don't even know the beginning of it. His lungs look like a 70 year old man's, and I just want, I want no part of this, and I have to say, the first week, it was the week of Thanksgiving, and my family had all chosen to assemble without me, do it that way, you will. - Okay, okay. - No, my, they were on various little-- - And you figure yourself Phantom Grab? - All day. Every day, I'd reach for it in my pocket, but I spent the week alone sweating it out, which needed to happen, because I am generally a pretty, I have my issues, but I'm a good mood girl. Like, I don't take my moods out on other people. I was raised in a house where I was like, if you're in a bad mood, you better turn yourself back around, missy, and come back out here with a smile. - Right, yeah. - 'Cause we, who puts the shoes on your feet? - Fix your face culture. - Yes, it was a fake, my father's a wasp, it was fix your face culture. And so I don't, and I was in a kind of mood, as it was a synthetic nasty mood, and that could not be controlled. - Because the nefarious thing about these things is that they were meant originally to help you quit smoking cigarettes. - And now, yesterday I saw a girl in the bodega, and she was crying because her credit card wasn't working and she wanted her vape. - Yeah. - And she was like 23, and I did pay for it, because I was like, I can't watch you in this kind of pain, but I said to her, you gotta stop. - Yeah, because look at you, look at your life, look at your choices. - Correct, and I also said getzins, getz Los Angeles, but also anything that makes you cry in the bodega, like there's nothing I want in the bodega, that if I can't get it, I'm gonna cry. - I'm reduced to tears. - Yes, and I don't wanna live that way. - Speak for yourself. (laughing) - I don't wanna live that way. I don't wanna live that way. - I also gotta say, like, he has remained off the vape, he's doing so much better. - I'm really proud of him. - I'm gonna see him. - Does he use Los Angeles, or anything, or has gone totally, no, anything. - You know what's crazy about those British people? - It's stiff, upper, fucking. - Oh. - When my husband is done. - Quit smoking. I was like, do you wanna do a patch, you wanna do this? And he was like, that is for pussy. - Yeah, no, no, he wants to feel the pain. - He was like, he was, it was so, if you know Fraser from the show, it was so Fraser. It was right then, it's over. It was just like, it's done. And he loved the thing. Like, I mean, but, and I have to say the, then as someone's like boyfriend in that moment, I think it might make it easier to when you have someone that's like, hi, like, I'm here too. This like, really was scary and it affected me, and I do think there is a degree of like, all of a sudden, it's like that zoom out thing. It's like football, right? You zoom out, you look at it, you're like, that's fucking crazy. - I know a lot about football. - That's fucking crazy. - Yeah, well, yeah. But I guess my thing to be, you know, negative on football, is like, you zoom out as an alien looking on the world, and you're like, what do they do? It doesn't seem exactly right, like, many forms of like, you know, government, things like that. Like, if you all were to just zoom out, the zooming out that happens when you look at people sucking on a little machine of smoke. - Of course. - Yeah, right there, you'll be like, well, I look crazy. - My husband was a smoke roommate. He saw me with the vape, he goes, it looks like you're plugged into a USB, like you have to go back to your USB to charge every five minutes. Like, you look like a demented robot. And it's interesting, the thing you said about going, this is really scary for me, 'cause the only thing that affected my behavior in my 20s when I was not healthy and not making choices to be healthier was my family looking at me after I'd had, you know, a terrifying incident in the hospital being, that was scary for us. - Yeah. - And if you love people, you don't want them to suffer. - Yeah. - Well, you're moving through the world completely aware of your body. And like, I'm starting to be. - Well, like, and you're hearing this thing that phrase went through and you're like, it's done. - Totally. - Drop it in the water. - Drop it in the water, never look at it again. It was green and it was green. - Remember every day. - And I think about our every day. And when I see people vaping, I think, I hope that you have fun and I hope you, a woman once said to me, a powerful one said, "When I quit smoking," she said. I didn't judge myself, I thanked myself for what it gave me. And I do think, those years, do I think it was good that I veped for six years, on and off, on and off? - No. - Oh no. - Do I think that during that time, I needed something to stop like darker impulses? Probably yes. - Yeah, but. - And now I'm like, training wheels are off. - Yeah. - The vape is gone. But I do have stuff animals. - Of course, the woman who, what did she say? I think, I think, if it were to give me. - Yeah. - And that woman was Marie Kondo. And that woman, wait, the woman was gonna say, "Oh, but this is like when a total fucking stranger tells you, "Hey, I watched girls, I read your book "and I think you have EDS." - That was the craziest. It was so crazy, the, a total stranger wrote to me. I had been- - It's the zoom out, yeah. - It's the zoom out. - I had been- - And it was exactly right. - Everything she said, it was like reading my, she literally, her name is Marjorie. She literally made my life make sense to me. Because I had had, my entire childhood, I had all of this weird symptoms. Like you're running in dodgeball and your knee dislocates and your teacher was like, how did you do that? Nobody touched you. You know, I was like, I was the const. There was, if there was anyone had a cold at school like within, you know, six hours, I was going down. I had migrating, starting when I was seven. I had really strong, I used to faint when I had to be, when I was in the sun, which my grandma loved because once I fainted in the customs line in Mexico and we got to skip. And she said, never forget, she said, "Can you do that again?" - Airport app. - Customs hack. - But what was amazing was I had been, I knew I had endometriosis and I had been writing about my health, which involved more symptoms. And also there were times I had to pause life for my health. And this woman had been paying attention. She said, even the way that you run, the way that your skin flushes, it all makes sense and sent me to this doctor at Johns Hopkins. And now there's more awareness about, there's both more awareness about Aylor Danlos Syndrome, other sort of autoimmune illness, the intersection between all these things and endometriosis, there's increasing sort of people in the medical field to understand. But it was also a huge moment for me 'cause I was like, you know, a Jewish girl who was raised to be like the doctor's always right. That was who you respected in. My grandfather's great shame was that he was a dentist, not a doctor, because he had not been able to afford like that much schooling. And so he loved to be Dr. Samuel Simmons, but he felt shame about the kind of doctor that he was. - Oh, Dr. Simmons. - I think it was a great-- - I think it was a great-- - I had pain. - Andy Kaufman's orthodontist. - Wow, I never clocked his teeth anyway, I keep going. - I don't know. - It's probably a good thing. - My grandpa wasn't really keeping it doing cosmetic. He was doing like, does one of your teeth go out like that? - Yeah. - I'll put it back. - Yeah, okay. - He, there was a thing in our house, which was you were never supposed to let him look in your mouth, because if you had a loose tooth, he would rip it out. - No. - And so my mom would always be like, whatever we do when we get to Passover, do not open your mouth for grandpa, because his thing was just like-- - Come on. - Let's go. - Oh, right there. - And he has office in the house and his tools were upstairs, so. - I had to say, there's something about an in-home dental or doctor thing, which no, I trusted more. - You know? - I'm like, this is the center of your life literally, so you must be carrying down. - So do you know who the central orthodont, the central dental practices in Great Necklong Island between the period of 1945 and 1983? - Dr. Sam Simmons. - Dr. Samuel Simmons. And the patriarch from capturing the Friedmans. And those were the two warring. - Remind me? - Do you remember the documentary about the family that end up maybe being predatory monsters? It was like, the first Andrew Durecki documentary, I watched it, Angelica Nicole Kidman was sitting in front of me at the theater, and it's about this family that potentially, it's unclear whether they committed mass acts of pedophilia or whether there was a sort of satanic panic moment that happened. I'm sure that it you end up kind of really siding of course with the victims, but he was this orthodontist who's kind of seemed like he had this really perfect family and then it disintegrates. And his son was Bobo the clown, the premier party clown of downtown Manhattan. So he used to do birthday parties. And the father was the other orthodontist and great neck. And of course, when all of this came out, my grandfather was king. - Of course. - I have to say, and this is the biggest compliment I could give. That story sounds like a limited series, starring Matthew Reese. - That's so nice. - Well, you should have-- - That's the best compliment I could give. - Watch capturing the Friedmans. I've never seen anyone nod as emphatically as Nicole Kidman ahead of me in the theater. - She loves it. - She loves it. - She loves it. - She was just excited to be in the theater. - She loves it. I can still remember what the light looked like pouring on her beautiful face. - Yeah, she's just stunning. She sat here just days ago. - I know, I know. I listened. - It really was a transfer. When she saw my little looney tunes on my shirt and couldn't handle herself for 45 seconds. - I can't imagine anything better than making a cool Kidman happy. - It was wonderful. - Right. - Except for making Tilda Swinton smile. - Oh, which I did once, once. - Tilda. - So we need to get her in the chair. - I have a photo. I don't do, I'm sure you're the same, which is I don't do a lot of celebrity approaches. I'm always shocked by when it comes out of me. - Right. - Like one time I saw Janice Dickinson at the Sunset Tower and I screamed, "You mean everything to me?" - Oh, I love that part of the book. - Yeah, you know that recently, I facetimed Judd and he had facetimed me and I was in bed, sweaty mass. He goes, "Lena, I'm a little busy right now. Passes the phone to Glen Powell." - Oh. - Glen Powell. - It's a cure for pretty much no feelings. The masculinity, radiating from the screen. Do you want to know what I did? - What'd you do? - I went like this. Hey, you're my number one movie star. What happened? Who is she? What's going on? And Glen Powell's like, "Thank you, that's so sweet." And then I go, "Aint no set, like a jet appetite set." - It's like no lies told. - No lies told, but what's she doing? - No, I think she-- - Why is she-- - Something else took over. - That's exactly what happened. And that's usually when I approach a celebrity, it's something else takes over. - 100%. - I learned the hard way because I once approached theater character actress legend Jackie Hoffman in a bodega, and said, "You were incredible in kissing Jessica Stein." And she went, "Oh." - Oh. - And I went, "I'm never doing that again." - Yeah, but you know what? You had the right idea, which was to not approach with the most popular thing she's done. You approach with the thing that's going to hit them in the heart the most, like when I met Queen Latifa, and three people in front of me said, "I loved you in Chicago." And I went up to her and said, "I loved you in life support," which was her AIDS drama on HBO. - If you don't think I remember life support-- - And she said, "Thank you so much, baby." - And she probably was like, "That means everything to me." One time when I was at Esselin, my favorite place in the world, a woman said, "I loved how you represented pelvic pain "in your TV show Camping." Camping is not even available in HBO matters. It has been scrubbed. Jennifer Garner has probably taken it off for IMDb. Beautiful person, amazing experience, inside and out. Inside and out, makes blueberry buckle for the crew. Ain't no set like a Jennifer Garner set. (laughing) But that being said, like when someone says something to you like that, you cannot help but be bold. That's what you did for La Tifa. (upbeat music) - Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. I'm Lexi Iwanyu, we're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa de Julio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. - I'm not gonna get any words I'm fighting. That is wild. - If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. - Obviously I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight. - I can fight. - Don't lie to me. - Don't lie to me. - Don't lie to me. - Liar. - Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't really care. - I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcasts, the True Crime Comedy Podcasts, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Deppery, Lamon Morris, and the Coldfire. - Ooh, I scammed 'em. - What? So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. ♪ Scam Goddess ♪ - Hi, this is Kylie Breakman, Angel Jaretana. - Jeremy Colhane, Pastor McDonald. - The Improvized Character Comedy Podcasts where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. - What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know, I think I sort of faux journaling. - Yeah, so we don't like to use that word anymore. - Okay. - A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. - No! - I'm so sorry, I'm seeing a reading of Sadako in the thousand paper cranes by Audrey McDonald's at the Wonderland Bookstore, 14. - No way! - I'm gonna have to come to the last bookstore though. Kim Catrol is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday! - He gets right up next to the microphone. - I hear you get the elbows here, the eyelashes hit each other. - Listen to artists on artists on artists on artists on the iHeard Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. - I'm Hamza. - And I'm Martin and we're the hosts of Out of Character. It's a podcast, I know. I swear. - I know, bold, but why don't we list some of the things we might talk about on a regular episode? Or maybe we'll talk about music and what's happening in the underground or drama and music or TV shows or the Med Galan, what the actors wore. Listen out of character from Will Ferrell's big money players network. On the iHeart radio app, Apple Pods, or wherever you get your podcasts. - So they're telling me we're almost, we're almost out of time so we have to do it. I don't think so, honey. - Man, we're gonna ask you the question, but that's a question. - Oh my god, we didn't even ask the question. - Really quickly, do you want to tell us what was it? - What was the culture that made you say culture was for you? - It was seeing Sarah Jessica Parker and Jane Krickowski in once a month. - What's up, princess? - On Broadway. - Lady Larkin and Winifred, thank you so much. - And I saying, I'm shy, I'm so quiet and shy for my camp musical audition did not get in, but I just thought like, I love being a woman. Women can be funny, they can be fun, they can be sexy. Sarah Jessica Parker is like wearing rags and screaming. My, I then went home, AOL.com, printed out probably a hundred low-resolution images of Sarah Jessica Parker made a wallpaper out of them. - Yep, yep. - And it was so big for me. - I'm so sad we don't have more time to talk about this, but yes, no one's gonna keep it going. - It was everything and I mean, it's still, and then I've also gone back and watched Carol Burnett and it's like, once upon a mattress to me is, I love it because it's a musical where the central character is not supposed to be good, it's singing. - Yeah. - Which is one of the biggest fights my mom and I ever had was when I was going to impact performing arts camp in Salisbury, Connecticut, where I was in camp with all the gummer sisters as well as Lily Rape. They were all graded acting. We were doing a review. We were supposed to choose a song. My mom said, you should choose. - Shy, no. - No, she said, from guys and dolls, Adelaide's lament, because it's a character piece. And I said, I wanna sing Adelaide's voice. And she said, you are a character actress. And I said, you are not an on-genoo. She was right, but I wasn't ready to see the writing on the wall. And you are a character actresses. - You are a character actress. - No, it's the best. Have a mom who knows you're a character actress? - Yeah. - I mean, my mom played red butler in the camp play. Like that's where she, 'cause she was tall, so they always gave her the boy parts. So she was like, take what you got. Put on your robe and sing Adelaide's lament. But I just love that, once upon a mattress, is a musical for girls who aren't naturally good at musicals. - Yeah, because they can go, because I'm actually. - Terrible, you scared me. - Shy, my favorite one is the swamps of home. - Our brush with green and gold. - Oh my god, my god, my god, my god. - I always forget that you're like a musical theater hit. And then it just gets me right in my heart. Then I remember when I watch Wicked. (laughs) - You can stream that on P-Car. - Yeah. - Okay, so we gotta do it. - All right. - All right, I have one. This is our 60th Seconds, where we take some time. - Great. - 60 seconds. - Great. - To rake things across the calls. I do have something-- - Gently. - Directed on jokes. - Directed at our guest. - Yes. - This is Matt Rodgers. Directed at Lena Dunham. His time starts now. - I don't think so, honey. What you're about to do to role model, making him a movie star is so dangerous. I don't think so, honey, that we're gonna be able to handle it. I've been seeing Tucker rise and rise and rise. I've seen the Sally phenomenon. I said they're making a movie star now. We are, if you think Hudson and Conor have taken over-- - You're not ready. - Yes, you fucking wait. The little tattoos all over his body. - I know. - It's sort of easy way with the smile, the hair that looks unstyled, but you know what it is. - There it goes. - The sort of natural charm and charisma. I don't think so, honey, that we're ready for this person to show us perfection in this type of way. Not to put pressure, because I think putting pressure on it would then sort of like, I don't know, I would hate for any thought-- - 15 seconds. - To run through his head besides, well, I'm up, I'm in a good mood, I'm gonna do my thing today, which seems like the vibe of his mood. I don't think so, honey, that we're gonna be able to get through, but I do think so, honey, that I'm gonna be there, 'cause you-- - Thank you. - Natalie Portman, Tucker. I'm in the seat. I do think so. - And Rashida Jones kind of giving him like a little scance look, and I will say this that I showed an early cut of the movie to a friend of mine who's like a very thoughtful 45-year-old writer, like who's like half queer, and she was like, you're ruining my life. - Yep. - I didn't think I still had feelings like this in me, and it's any 'cause I so want Tucker never to feel objectified that I literally talked him, like I'm like, put her here, pal. Like I was like, I talked him like I'm a friend's father who's just walked in from golfing and doesn't really want kids at the house, 'cause I so don't want him to ever feel like all of these like creepy, like I wanted to feel freedom, and I'm like, anyone can be objectified like this. I don't want this like lovely young boy who like loves his mother Susan so much to ever feel that he's being like control. - Well, that'd seem to be too late on that. - He has the perfect perspective on it though, because, and by that I mean, he has a sense of humor, but he recently, or a couple of months ago, posted something on Instagram stories where it was a meme, because they have the same haircut of a famous Sean Cody porn star named Brandon, and he was like, come to the show tonight. He has an awareness of what he does to people, but doesn't flaunt it too much and too flagrant of a way that he will be perfect and objectify him. - He's also just a good boy. Like I was around him for long enough that if the facade was going to crack, it would have. Let's just say if someone was gonna kick a rug or throw a chair, it would have happened, and he is a good boy. Like he's from Maine. He gets really happy when dogs show up. Like there's an ease and he is obviously poetic and complicated. I just love him. He's my buddy. Like I text in pictures of my pigs all the time and he writes LOL. Like, and it's, you know, it's very healthy to have young friends. - Hey, he writes LOL. - He writes LOL. - I love him, but he's a really good actor and it's annoying. - Oh, I love that. - It's very like Brad Pitt in California where you're like, who's that? - Yeah, okay, well get ready for that. Who's that moment? - Okay. - Here's Bowen Young's. - I'm so excited. - I'm so inspired by our guest. - Okay, this is Bowen Young's. I don't think so any, he's time. - Starts now. More places should be like the Tower Bar at sunset tower and serve what chicken pot pie. - Oh, what? - I don't care that it costs $34, like it does at Tower Bar. Price it up and flate that all you want. I know I'm paying for something premium, even if it's pretty bad, I love the crust and you're thinking, oh, but Bowen, it's so hard to make and it's so hard to scale up at a restaurant. Buy the puff pastry ahead of time. - 30 seconds. - Put it in the freezer, lay it out on the day, you'll be okay. Cut it out, just above the dish, it will be fine. It's not that hard to make. I just want it made from the expertise and curatorial sort of. - And 15 seconds. - Just POV of Ashev. And Tower Bar, I do lament how populated it's been. It's gotten since your time there and making it a home. I love going still, it has a new valence to it now. - It has a really new valence. - And that's one minute. - That was incredible. I agree with you 100%. I will say, and I talked about this in the book, that during COVID, I was for a period the only guest at the sunset tower. - Incredible. - With one guest, there was a gentleman at the desk. There was a lady upstairs in 11, 09. She was me. I was a, and my dog, Ingrid, who has her own relationship to that place. And because I was alone, I could go work on my computer in the bar. I could go sit by the pool. I could go sit on the roof. The freedom, I was Eloise. It was the greatest time of my life. - And no one knew that the burger was famous so they couldn't charge $46 for it. - Well, they weren't even serving the menu. They were literally serving croissants wrapped in croissants wrapped in whatever. - Yeah. - Yes, tinfoil. Because they, I forgot the word for tinfoil. - They have good bits and a blanket too, I believe. - I am a vegetarian, but that's not a judgment. - More for me. - But I've had them before in my pat when I was acting out of pocket and eating me. And I loved them. - Yeah. - And now I was alone at the tower barn. It was really beautiful. And then you set one table on fire. - Yeah, and they kicked out. - Oh, sorry. - Kick me out, which was incredible. What they did was look at monitor me. And now every time I see lovely Jeff who runs the tower or he says, are you gonna set anything on fire today? And I go, no, no, no, I don't have matches. I don't have a lighter. My husband won't let me. (laughing) - You can't live down something like lighting something on fire. And once you walk back into that establishment, it's tough and incredible. - Well, you're about to set this whole place on fire with your, I don't think so, honey. Are you ready? - I thought about it in advance. I can't be as good in a cold-kid men saying bad breath. And everything will ever be as good. - Listen, we're all trailing in her dust. But are you ready? This is Lena Dunham's. I don't think so, honey, her time starts now. Quiet luxury. - Oh. - I don't. If I'm gonna have luxury, I want it to be loud. - Yes. - Firstly, I'm not, since when did elegance mean that you were wearing oatmeal with bone, with beige, with tan? We have so many colors. We have so many materials. Why is looking like you work at a spa suddenly a sign? Did rich people get so bored with having so many things that they thought the most important things are gonna be things that look like nothing? And I don't think so, honey. What, you're a fashion blocker. And you're showing me that you have a top that looks like someone's baby's skin and a pants that look like someone else's brother and both those people are white. I don't want it. - Five seconds. I, when I get something and I spend a lot of money on it, I want everyone to know. - Headlines, and that's one minute. - Honestly, it does, I think I'm gonna say something big. Fashion got worse when we went minimalist. The other thing to know is that minimalism looks very different on a person who's spent 20 years creating their body. - Of course. - Whereas minimalism on a person who's just trying to survive, is it different energy? - Yeah, it's just a shirt that looks, and what you want me to get spent $500 on a t-shirt that looks like the one that I wore over my bathing suit when I went to the breakers with my grandma in 1992. - Well, looks dirty on purpose a little bit. - So that's why it's more expensive. - Yeah, that's exactly right. And it looks like someone sewed it in a shaker community. And I'm mad. - But you can see the stitching, that's why it's $8,000. - I'm mad, I'm so mad. And I see things and I just go, well, you're really trying to tell me this. And I don't want to indulge in fast fashion. I'm not trying to hurt the planet. - Oh no. - But I don't want what you're offered. So I'm gonna have to go to Forever 21. - Yeah. - I'm gonna have to go to Forever 21. - Thank you for giving me the space to say. - Of course. Being the Polquois. - Being the Polquois. - Maybe that's the title of that. - The first time Forever 21 opened, I was like, this is a utopia. - Oh, yes. - You were one like me. - It felt like something that wasn't for us in one of the things that like, it was one of those moments where it's like, you know when you're like a little gay boy and you see Justin Timberlake and all the girls are excited, but you can't be. - No. - So you get angry? That's how I felt about Forever 21. - But then they have a place to go hang out. - But then we would go add in why you at the Forever 21 Union Square and that was a haven. - Well, finding out that they even sold things for boys slash men. - I used to like, if it was a hot day and I was in a dress in my thighs, we're up until you just pop into Forever 21 and get a pair of like neon bike shorts. It's only your outfit is singing. - Yeah, beautiful. Famesick April 14th. - I love being with you too. And it's so special to have our group chat come to life in this way. And thank you for everything you've given me, friendship, changing my life through helping me quit vaping, reading the book so thoughtfully. - We love every single page of it. Just like we love everything that you've done. I mean, like it's not a lie. That show, you're one of the most important people to our generation in terms of pop culture in terms of what you contributed. - Life. - This is so, just so- - Life is just so. - Oh wow. - That's the title of that. - I love you guys. - Love you. - This is just so, we end up here. - Thanks for having me and for jacking me up for three days. - Oh, we love you. - I'm going home to take 42 Benadrill. - That's actually in Vogue. Okay, we end every episode with a song. You know the one. - You know the one. - You go. - I'm curious if you know the one. ♪ I'm in the corner watching you kisser ♪ ♪ Oh ♪ - So listen to the rest of that. - Watch the best episode of television of all time. - So make some awesome videos. - Sexistential, she's out. - She's out. - It's so good. (laughing) - I love you guys. - "Loss Cultures" is the production by Will Ferrell's "Big Money Players" in my heart radio podcasts. - "Created and Hosted" by Matt Rodgers and Bowen Yang. "Executive Produced" by Anna Hosniay and "Produced" by Becca Ramos. - "Edited and Mixed" by Doug Bame. - And our music is by Henry Keverski. - Lisa, tell them about our new show. - We have a new podcast. It's called "Don't Lie To Me." I'm Lexi Juanu, we're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. - And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. - Listen on the "I Heart" radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of "Scam Goddess" podcast. The "True Crime Comedy" podcast, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. - Ooh, I scam them. - What? - And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. - Start listening to "Scam Goddess" on the "I Heart" radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music) - Hi, this is Kylie Breakman, Angel Jaretana. - Jeremy Cole Hane, Patrick McDonald. - And we're the hosts of the "Artists on Artists" on "Artists on Artists" podcast. - The "Improvized Character Comedy" podcast were each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. - Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. - You never seen it least so quiet. As when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. - Listen to "Artists on Artists" on "Artists" on "Artists" every Thursday on the "I Heart" radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - I'm Hamza. - And I'm Martin. - And we're the hosts of "Art of Character" the best podcast in the world, is what they said. - Wait, they said that? - Yeah, yeah, they said that. The best podcast with two best friends who jabber and talk about topical, trendy, funny stuff, give our input on it, that's what you've needed. I think up until now, listener. - Listen "Art of Character" on the "I Heart" radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Sometimes I just feel like a burden. - You're a bird. - You fly. - You're a morn. - And we are. - "Art of Character" podcast. - Dude, who messed up the club? - This is an "I Heart" podcast.