Life Behind Bars for Lindsay Clancy?

The defendant has been charged in three counts of murder. - That means if Lindsey Clancy is convicted, she could spend the rest of her life in prison. So what exactly would that mean for someone with her limitations? - Every day she came in this courthouse. Good talk. Oh, plan intended, the poor thing is in a wheelchair as we all know for the rest of her life. - We're hearing from an expert on the inside about the conditions and what could be ahead for Lindsey Clancy. This is scandal, presented by Lawn Cron. I'm Sierra Gillespie. (upbeat music) - Let me start off by saying, the future of Lindsey Clancy's case is uncertain right now. Last week, after more than 30 hours of deliberations across seven days, the jurors in this case remained deadlocked and a mistrial was ultimately declared. Now, there are several options for what could be ahead. The Plymouth County District Attorney's Office could file the exact same charges, three counts of first to remurder and try the case again, or they could switch things up, opting for a lesser charge. There's also the option that they could work with Lindsey's defense team to reach a plea agreement and avoid trial altogether. And then, there's the final option. That in this case seems kind of unlikely that prosecutors would drop the charges and just move on altogether. Again, I don't think that one's very likely, but at the time of this recording, we don't know which way it's gonna go. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts originally brought three charges of first-degree murder against Lindsey in the death of her three kids, five-year-old Kora, three-year-old Dawson, and eight-month-old Callin. Lindsey admitted to strangling the kids in the basement of her Duxbury, Massachusetts home on January 24th, 2023. As part of her defense, Lindsey argued, she wasn't criminally responsible because she was in the throes of postpartum psychosis at the time of their deaths. Now, the facts of this case are so disturbing, and yet it's still become a major spectacle. Some people agree with the defense, saying Lindsey was suffering a mental break and was failed by the health care system. Other people, side with the prosecution, saying this was cold-blooded and calculated murder. And reading between the lines, it kind of seems like the Plymouth County District Attorney's Office is really passionate about this case, and what they're saying is seeking justice. Here's Plymouth County DA, Tim Cruise. - One of our parts in this proceeding is to speak for the victims who are no longer here. And that is one of our most important functions. Our priority has always been to fight for Kora, for Dawson and for Callin. The noise in this case may be louder than it is for other prosecutions in our county, but we have treated it the same as any other case. Children were murdered, and it's our job to seek justice. I appreciate the fact that there are strong feelings and opinions tied to this case. However, our job is to set aside our feelings and focus solely on the facts. The facts are Lindsey Clancy killed her three children, and the evidence suggested to us that she was in control of her actions when she committed those homicides. I have led the Plymouth DA's office for a long time now. And I have never been swayed to act a certain way or make certain decisions based upon public sentiment. In this job, it is the facts ultimately decide how you act. Not the opinions of observers, several steps removed from our court proceedings. - That sound bite makes me think it's more likely than not that another trial could be on the way for Lindsey Clancy. - I do know that one of the questions that are out here right now regarding retrials, I will let you know that there will be no decisions made today regarding that. I'm going to be meeting with our team, and we will address this case further at the appropriate time in the context of an official court proceeding. So you don't get an answer on that question today. - If this goes to a retrial, potentially what do you expect to do in terms of finding an impartial jury given the current media coverage and social media? - Yeah, we'll do what we always do. We will go through the court system and we will do what we have as to preemptory why it. - So once again, let me be clear. We don't know if we're headed to another trial yet. But Judge William Sullivan said in open court, he wants to put something on the books for this fall. And given that it's currently September, that means a trial could be right around the corner. No defense attorney Kevin Reddington says he's ready to go. - He said she wasn't emotionally available or is ready to handle a retrial of what happened two weeks ago. What now that you face the possibility? - So Judge Sullivan is indicating that we're looking at some time in the fall. And she'll be ready. - Reddington made this statement on Friday, just minutes after this mistrial was officially declared. And I also want to note how he describes Lindsey because that sort of became the basis for this episode. Here's how Reddington began his statement to the press. Well, obviously, this is not a time for bloating, bragging, expressing victory. It's a very sad case. Cruise knows that he was crushed. He doesn't have a case. He doesn't have to stand here and say that he's advocating on behalf of the victims and then look down to see what their names are. I'm representing a woman who is a fantastic, wonderful individual. This woman is so brave, so awesome. Every day she came in this courthouse. Good talk. O pun intended, the poor thing is in a wheelchair as we all know for the rest of her life. Sat there through seven weeks of the trial, where nobody had anything bad to say about her, except for the two prosecutors, and apparently Tim Cruise. - This sound bite really got me thinking. If Lindsey Clancy is retried and found guilty, she could be sentenced to some serious prison time. In fact, if she's found guilty of first-degree murder, it couldn't mean life in prison. Massachusetts' case law reads in part. Any person who's found guilty of murder in the first-degree shall be punished by imprisonment in state prison for life, and shall not be eligible for parole pursuant to section 133A of chapter 127. And at least for a time, this is what Lindsey was charged with, and she could be charged with this again. - The defendant has been charged in three counts of murder. There are two different degrees of murder. There's murder in the first-degree and murder in the second-degree. If you find the defendant guilty of murder, you shall decide the degree of murder. The Commonwealth alleges that the defendant committed murder in the first-degree on the following theories. Murder with deliberate premeditation, and/or murder with extreme atrocity or cruelty. Now, to prove the defendant guilty of any crime, the Commonwealth must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was criminally responsible at the time the alleged crime was committed. The Commonwealth bears the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the crime, with which he's charged, and also that the defendant is criminally responsible for her conduct. The defendant has no burden to prove a lack of criminal responsibility. - Regardless of how you feel about Lindsey Clancy, or what you think should have been the outcome of this case, or even a sentence, you have to admit there are some logistical hurdles for something like her to serve some time in a state prison. To start, there's her physical limitations. After strangling her children, Lindsey attempted to end her own life. She slit her throat and wrists, ingested a slew of crushed-up pills, and jumped from a second-story window. And at trial, we heard a lot of testimony about her injuries sustained in that attempt and how they've affected Lindsey, namely the fact that she's paralyzed now from the waist down. - Yeah, so this is all after her head head. So she gets her head hurt, then there is some flexion of her body and the energy from the impact is transmitted down her vertebral crew. And what that did was it crushed the number of her thoracic vertebrae or vertebrae in the chest area and actually made thoracic vertebral body P5 go be compressed and move over the top of the lower vertebrae. And that is what injured her spinal cord. In the right-hand panel there, the yellow two coming down is the spinal cord. And the thoracic vertebral five and six is pictured there and you can see that her whole spinal column was compressed and it moved forward and out of place causing her spinal cord injury. There were also injuries that are indicated by little red stars there. And those are fractures of the transverse processes of the cervical vertebrae. So when they were compressed, area for the New York City. the source between the vertebrae were compressed and fractured those transfers processes. So she had a bending injury and she also had a right posterior rib injury. You can see on the left hand panel her shoulders are also hitting the ground and that caught the fracture of the right first rib in the back and the flexion of her neck also damaged her thyroid gland and some of her voice-balked ridges. It was made clear at trial time and time again that Lindsey Clancy is paralyzed from the waist down. Kevin Rennington talked at length about it, including in his closing arguments. And they put her in the hospital and she's the evil woman who killed the three innocent kids and they're going to stand there while she's chained to the bed, paralyzed. You heard testimony from Dr. Zazel, they weren't little fluffy cuffs that were securing her to the bed. They were handcuffs, not the medical treatment. No treatment would be restraints so you don't do whatever, pull lines out and things. What's talking about when the big man were in there with their guns and their badges and they're sitting outside the door and they're going to make sure that Lindsey Clancy paralyzed, chained to the bed, doesn't get up and run away from the hospital, I guess. And they just have to suffer their way through whom I guess I worked. I don't know, I always had to know the shift, I had to work that night. This is the treatment. And this leads to my first major question here. If Lindsey Clancy is convicted and sentenced to prison time, hypothetically, what would that look like for somebody in a wheelchair? And I assume it depends on the prison, but are they handicapped, accessible? Are there ramps? Would Lindsey still be allowed to have a wheelchair given that things are sometimes taken away from people in prison because they could be a security risk or a danger? And that leads into the next question I have. Because right now Lindsey has nurses who help her with going to the bathroom, washing up things like that. I was there in the courtroom. Those nurses are always behind her in the very first row. They're closer to Lindsey even than her parents are. Kevin Reddington spoke about this in Open Court too, noting that these nurses help Lindsey, they're friendly with her, but mostly they help her to in front of the bathroom and with cleaning. Now in prison, would Lindsey be granted the same treatment? And if not, how would she be able to use the bathroom? Showers are already slippery, they can already be dangerous even if you're not paralyzed, so that adds a hurdle. I mean, who's going to help her shower or bathe, would someone be there to help her? And this is a question that I personally did not have an answer to, but today's guest does have an answer. It's Justin Piperney, prison consultant. So stick around, Justin's going to answer that question and more because the physical limitations aren't the only hurdle that Lindsey Clancy could face. There's also the mental health side of things. Now this next sound bite is from a Commonwealth Rebuttal witness, Dr. Kirk Hyalbrun, and I say all of that just to show there's literally no dispute to me that Lindsey has mental health issues. So among some of the diagnoses that you've been given were adjustment disorder with anxiety and depression, generalized anxiety disorder, major depressive disorder, bipolar disorder, bipolar disorder too, postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis, post traumatic stress disorder. That last one was not before January of 2023, but it's something that she has right now. And in addition to those diagnoses, which sort of implies that she has a disorder and she has symptoms, there were complicating factors. She had psychotropic medication with apparent adverse reaction. She had serious sleep deprivation over three month period. She had between five and eight months after the birth of her third child. She had anxiety about returning to work in the fall of 22. She was worried about leaving her baby for work and he was not taking the bottle and the other thing, which was important for her, is she was always someone who was, she was into exercise and she stopped exercising sometime in October when she started having these adverse reactions, but it's one of these things that she, it was a real difficult thing for her to handle when she couldn't do the running or the yoga or the peloton or other things that she used to keep her anxiety managed. To be fair, these were a lot of the conditions and symptoms that Lindsey experienced leading up to the death of her children. But yet another Commonwealth rebuttal witness testified to medication Lindsey is on to this day. Other than the fact that she's paralyzed and has to be in a wheelchair, she's not exhibiting the inability to bathe, the inability to emote, to have feelings, to talk to people. She's able to communicate with people, right? Yeah, okay, do you know what medications that she's on, well, she's at 2Xperry? She's taking, I think we've discussed a few of the day, a low dose of zyprexa. I believe clonidine and chrasidone and propranol occasionally. So let's break those down. Lindsey has been prescribed zyprexa. That's an anisecotic drug that treats conditions like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. She's also been prescribed a drug called clonidine. This drug treats things like high blood pressure, ADHD or even anxiety or PTSD. She's also been prescribed chrasidone, which is used commonly for insomnia or a major depressive disorder. And lastly, this doctor testified that Lindsey occasionally takes propranolol, which is a beta blocker that's often used to treat anxiety. So that's three prescriptions. Lindsey is consistently on at this time, occasionally she's on four. But if she were convicted and serving time in prison, would these medications be readily available? And right now, and really since early 2023, by the way, Lindsey has been held at Tuxperry Hospital, which is a state-run facility north of Boston. And it wasn't really relevant at trial, so it wasn't discussed at length about what her daily life is really like. And we know Lindsey has access to the prescription drugs there, and therapy, as well as nurses, that help with her physical therapy and her day-to-day tasks, like the bathroom and showering or bathing, whatever it may be. On top of all that, Lindsey has wound the clock care and is under constant suicide watch. There are a number of what we call clinical scales on this test, and she was not elevated on any of them, meaning that she's not actively symptomatic in many areas or in great distress in certain ways. But there was one scale that is elevated, and that is the suicide and death ideation scale, thinking about suicide and death. And I should say that Miss Clancy has been on one-to-one suicide precautions, which is the highest level of precautions that a hospital can take, since she came to Tuxperry. This is a very long time to be on that kind of precautions, and what it says to me is that she was at risk for suicide, she remains at risk for suicide, and so she still is. So there really are a lot of things to consider if Lindsey Clancy were to be convicted and sentenced to prison time. And I post a few of those questions throughout this episode, but now I want to have some answers. And for that, we're joined with today's guest, it's prison consultant, Justin Papperny. Justin, it's so great to have you on scale. Thank you for coming on with us today. You're welcome. Okay, so let me start with the really vast question we have. I guess, let me back up before I even ask that question, Lindsey Clancy has not been convicted. She has not been sentenced any prison time. We're speculating here, but it's a possibility if she is convicted. So I have to ask this very stark question to start. She's in a hospital right now, but that's so much different than a prison, right? It's such a big difference. It's like comparing my golf game to Tiger Woods, okay? In a hospital, she has 24-hour care, doctor, psychiatrist, nurses that can treat her. Okay. Treatment is the priority. When you are in a medium security prison, fenced in with barbed wire, the highest value in a prison is security. So if she has a doctor's appointment today in the hospital at two o'clock, she's going to get there. In prison, she may have to get to count. There could be a lockdown, heavy security. In this environment in the hospital, I presume, people with mental health issues may be more sympathetic to what she's enduring, yet when you look at a medium security prison with women, many of whom have children, they've lost custody. They miss their children. They've endured trauma throughout their entire life. There's not going to be that level of sympathy for her. So her security is much more concerning in a medium security prison than it is in a hospital. And the transfer for her, if she were convicted, would be so jarring. And so much to take in, she's going to require more treatment and care inside of that prison. It's just not a priority. I mean, there's a couple of things to look at here. First of all, there's the physical limitations that she has because she's paralyzed and then the mental health of it all. So let's start with the physical because she is in a wheelchair. She's paralyzed from the waist down. I know that she has nurses who help her go to the bathroom or wash up, take a bath, things of the like. Is that something that would happen in prison, which she has, and when they're to help her get around? Potentially, right? So we have to, on a macro level, we have to accept their myriad security risks that prison has to accept her notoriety. If convicted, she killed her children, mental health issues. She's in a wheelchair. That's a lot to take in. So I presume after intake, not she's going to go probably to the medical unit. Probably I think being a single cell, not because she's famous, but because she's in a wheelchair. These things are only so big. Then there's the idea of help in the hospital, she gets it 24 hours a day. Then inside of the prison, it's one thing for a prisoner to walk her down to the, walk her down the hall or move her down the hall in the wheelchair or get to a medical appointment. To your point, what about using the restroom or showering? It's going to create such strain on the prison that if a prisoner helped her, it's someone who has a lot of trust, who's cultivated goodwill with staff. It would be a high trust worthy job because you can expect inside of a prison. This is not the sort of crime that is well received. There have been people in prison throughout this country who have been killed. Jeffrey Dahmer was killed in a prison because of the crime. Why do you boulder? The FBI informant was killed in prison. If convicted, it is a horrific crime which I target on her back. So sure a prisoner could help her, but how do you trust that prisoner? Does that prisoner in time expect something in return because what you don't want to do in prison is being dead? The security factors are massive and it's going to consume a lot of the resources if she ends up going to this prison in Massachusetts. So you've talked about this a lot throughout here that she wouldn't be well received in terms of killing three children. That's just kind of colloquially what everybody knows if you kill children or if you are a pedophile, you're not going to go over well in prison. So if she is convicted and she's there, that's not looking good. Besides the fact that she is now famous worldwide for all of this. And on top of that, her attorney Kevin Reddington has said literally since the day that this happened in the hospital she's in, she's been on suicide watch since then, since 2023. So how did those things go together? Do you think she would be isolated and put on suicide watch? Yes. And before I get into more detail, we want to be careful about speaking in absolutes. There's no doubt some prisoners there will loathe her for her crime. There is no doubt. Others may be enamored by her because we are enamored by celebrity in this country. Indeed, some will be sympathetic to her. Some will not care. Some will be annoyed that her presence is disrupting their prison routine. When she gets there, if she goes, the security factors are so serious that it is going to require 24 hour supervision. Is she eating less? Why? Is she not sleeping? Why? Is what we saw with MDC, with Jeffrey Epstein and Brooklyn hanging himself. They don't have resources that the federal government does. So because of that, security is paramount. All eyes will be on her and unfortunately, while they're focused on security, she is just not going to get the treatment she is getting right now. I mean, she's in a hospital where people can check themselves in. Now I know she can't leave, but she's had visitors that have brought her things. Food. Let's talk. When you're in prison, every phone call is recorded. Every email she has access to it is saved. When people come to visit, they're going through a security and a lockdown. And every movement is, it is a massive undertaking. So if she's on suicide watch now, that's like, in she's in a hospital, it's like a one. You can imagine she's going to continue to be on suicide watch in a prison. That's like a 10 in part because the reality has set in. And let me just quickly say, right now, she maintains some hope that this, you know, she may stay there, right? Hope that it may, this may go away at some point, she may see freedom again. But if convicted, the reality is, I'm here in this prison forever and she's got to embrace that reality, embrace waiting and also very, very little privacy. And I mean, regardless of how you feel about the case, whether you think that she's a murder or you think that this is a mental health issue, I don't think that anybody can say that she doesn't have mental health problems. She has multiple diagnoses, both sides, the commonwealth and the defense have said this. They talked about her medications. And so I have to wonder if she's convicted, if she is in prison, would she have access to therapy in the way that she does now? I'm assuming that's a no. It's a yes, but you have to understand nothing compared to what she gets now in 24 hour treatment and care. So certainly there's medical treatment and program. You can see a psychiatrist, you can see a doctor, but it's always secondary to counts to your job, to security of the institution. They have a whole institution to manage. They can't just fixate on her 24 hours a day and give her attention that she's currently getting in the hospital. So the treatment I know is going to be second to security counts, making sure the institution is being run smoothly. And that makes sense too, because she wouldn't be the only person who's there. We need to make sure that everybody is safe, that everybody is accounted for. She's just an additional person, but does bring some challenges for the day-to-day life of prison. So we talked about therapy, but also medications too. Now I know that this is something that inmates have access to medications, but would it be the same? I mean, again, I don't know all of the logistics you explain this to me, but are they readily available in terms of prescriptions, like if it's not like walking to CVS and you just get it from there from your prescriber, is there a difference? There's a difference from the prisoner's perspective. I heard a former guard talking about healthcare and mental health in prison and it's phenomenal and it's terrific and there'll be no change for her. That's just not rooted in reality. So keep in mind, if convicted, she's going to sit for a probation interview, which would lead to a report, and that report, of course, is going to disclose her history of any substance abuse, alcohol, medications, treatment that she needs, that will factor into treatment and medications that she should get in prison. But we have to understand these states are there broke. The last thing they really care about are people in prison. I hate to say it. They got poverty, homelessness, drug addiction, social services they need to fund and prison staff isn't going to view her as someone who has necessarily mental health issues. If convicted, they're going to look at her as a killer, as a murder of the worst of the worst of the monks, the two or three hundred women inside of that prison. She is amongst the worst. So it's not going to listen to sympathy and it's not necessarily going to compel them to go above and beyond to give her medications that she may need, regardless of the platitudes that the prisons may tell you. And that's what if you were to reach out to them, they'd say, we have medical doctors here, we have staff, they're going to get the treatment they need. I've been to prison. I've been in this space for 17 years. It is very easy for them to say one thing and do another because medication and treatment in prison is very expensive and they have a lot of people to manage and look after. Yeah. The reality is just simply different because we've all heard stories about overpopulation or overcrowding rather in prisons that there's more people than they have food or medications for treatment, whatever it may be. And you said something really interesting to me too, that if she's convicted again for our viewers, she has not been convicted. We don't even know if she's going to trial again. It seems likely, but who's to say this is all speculation. But if she is convicted, she's going there as somebody who would be a triple murderer. And ordinarily, that would be a high security prison, but I don't think she poses quite the same risk. Do you think she would be in high security medium? What do you think would happen? I believe in Massachusetts. It's that framing him prison, which is where she would spend her time. It's fenced in. There's razor coil, controlled movements. She may work. When I was in prison, there was a few prisoners in wheelchairs who handed out trays in the chow hall, who handed out racket balls or handed out books in the library. If she goes, it's productive to work, to feel as if you're contributing in some way. Because when the reality sets in, I'm here for a lifetime, you have to find meaning. There will be some programming there. There will be access to work there. Some recreation or exercise, even if she's in a wheelchair, I know. But it's the reality that I'm going to be here forever with this crime, very little privacy and you never sleep well again, because there could be some prisoner looking to hurt you to get some attention, especially if they're serving life in prison. I mentioned yesterday on an interview with Jessie, three or four times a month, I get a call from someone that says, do you want to know what Sean Combs eats in prison? No. Do you want to know what Elizabeth Holmes does, a four o'clock on a Friday? No, I don't. So you can expect at some point, if she's there, prisoners going to leave, they're going to call you CNN or Fox and say, let me tell you about her routine or if people can be more nefarious and criminal and seek to make an example out of her for some short term fame, the privacy issue, the concern, she'll never rest well again. And I mean, to be fair, people are interested. We've done stories about Brian Coburger, what his life is like on the inside, or I think when it was the P Diddy trial, I had you on, you know, what is life like in MDC or what is life like him now? It's interesting for people to see, but at the same time, you're right, her privacy is completely gone if this is the case. And you mentioned that you've seen people who are in wheelchairs in prison. That was going to be one of my questions because I know I've seen stories of, you know, people have their shoelaces taken away because this could be used as a weapon or you could use it to harm yourself or something like that. She needs a wheelchair. She's bound by it, but it is bulky. It could be rammed into someone to injure someone. So what would the per- Costions there be is in terms of her wheelchair. They're going to try to account for it as best they can This is an old prison like 200 years almost 150 years or something like that I know there's been some updates to make it compliant So they'll be showers that will allow her to go in and try to manage it as best she can But it doesn't change not just that she's in a wheelchair if she's in that prison mental health issue psychosis feeling Suicidal may make it difficult for her to get out of bed or brush her teeth or want to go to the chow hall More care and that's why I say when she's in the hospital right now. She has 24-hour Lookout from doctors and guards the new lookout is going to be a staff member a correctional officer assessing is she sleeping less is she eating less is something off here? And they'll be reading letters checking email listening to phone calls to get an assessment of how well She is doing so to the extent that they can make accommodations They will but it doesn't change it is nothing like the benefit she has right now in this hospital And that also makes it harder at times for people who go from Something that's kind of cushy to very difficult. It's usually the other way around like Sean Comis for example Went from a detention center to a low security prison where you feel free It's sort of like going from prison to Disneyland like wow. I can walk outside run the track. I see the blue skies In her case, it's the opposite she's going from cushy to locked in 24 hours a day And it's tougher because you have that comparison of what you once had I also had a question you mentioned letters. I was there in the courtroom and I saw Kevin running to near attorney Coming in with a giant box filled of letters and he said these are all not fan mail But there are letters of support for Lindsay and I'm wondering we should call it we should call it what it it's fan mail Let's call it what it is. Well, I think so. Okay fair enough. Okay fan mail. Let's say she's getting this in prison Or she's getting the extra attention Does that make her a target for lack of a better term if people are jealous? Oh Lindsay Clancy who killed her three kids. She's getting all this mail. She's getting all this attention What about me? I mean does that make things tricky? There is no doubt you're reading my mind I wrote this little book in prison called Lessons from prison I was serving 18 months and nobody knew me but by writing publicly online I began to get some letters at mail call leading to some prisoners to say it's not fair. You're a tourist You're a short timer. Why are you getting some attention? It can be off-putting to people So there's no doubt while some people will be sympathetic to her some are going to be jealous They're not going to like the notoriety or the attention the disruption to their routine There is absolutely no doubt about that. It's humbling to be at mail call and to never have your name called And I experienced that too. I frequently said it's okay to be forgotten in prison. You're safe people move on But there is no doubt the attention Every media outlet in the world will seek permission as we've seen with the Menendez brothers They were interviewed in prison. I think Richard Dahmer the night stalker killer was interviewed in prison on death row At some point they're going to reach out the warden will probably approve it Then she's going to do interviews right and that can be very off-putting to other prisoners who Have not had that level of attention who don't have money on their books who didn't raise money to pay for lawyers Who didn't have a defense attorney saying this or that? So to answer your question Of course and it's something she needs to embrace and I can tell you something the prisons thinking about or will think about Okay I There's so much to think about here and again, this is all speculation because she could be going to another trial We don't know if she's going to be convicted But it is interesting because she's different than a normal inmates even if somebody is convicted of something I haven't seen anybody like this and any of the stories I've covered so Justin thank you for coming on and kind of kind of giving us some insight into what she maybe could expect if this does happen My pleasure Lindsey Clancy is due back in court on September 29th It's unclear if we'll know then or maybe even before that whether the Plymouth County District Attorney's Office plans to retry the case This is something we're going to keep falling for updates and bring you the latest right here on lawn crime And that is where today's episode of Scandal leaves us for now If you like what you saw and you want to see more or connect with me on social media You can find me on places like Instagram at Sierra Gillespie Thanks for watching today's episode of Scandal as always. I'm your host Sierra Gillespie and I'll see you next time (upbeat music)