Life After ICE

hi david hi risabelle it sounds like you're on the move i am on the move driving through the rainy auckland streets to go pick up my linen is your um washing machine broken at the moment my washing machine is not broken but we don't have a dryer i understand are you a good driver or a bad driver would you say i mean i picked up this call while i was driving so you be the judge uh in this week's episode we're catching up with evilly wehongi who was kidnapped by ice from alley x and is now out and free oh evilly nice my god what a weird time and still like losing that much of your life it must be such a whiplash weird experience yeah two and a half months uh locked up and then sort of dumped back into her life so yeah i want to learn about what that's been like um okay well look good luck out there good luck getting your sheets um thank you i've just retrieved them and i hope they get dry in time they did seem dry but then i walked through the rain so they got wet again just then i'm david farrier a new zealander accidentally marooned in america and i want to figure out what makes this country tick now you may recall a while back our episode about new zealander evilly wehongi she'd been raised in america since she was about six years old she was on a green card then she was coming back through la x from a trip to new zealand when ice grabbed her and locked her up for about two and a half months it was all over being caught with weed over a decade ago anyway if you missed the memo evilly got out after 73 days in various ice prisons and so today some updates from evilly on the outside i go and visit her in wisconsin i hang out with her and her mom and her dog so prepare to find out what life is like on the other side of an ice prison because this is the life after ice episode i don't know about you rob but i don't know if it's the speed at which life is moving at the moment but when i think back to ice i don't know if it's the speed at which life is moving at the episodes we've done or any kind of time stamp i really struggle to know how long it was yeah yeah absolutely which is so so weird um but i do remember this episode well because we drove um over some mountains to the word i always struggle to say the adelanto adelanto detention facility i want to say altadena because it's close yeah it's not that's the thing um i waited outside um it's incredibly depressing convicts while you went inside to visit everly who had been um locked up for quite some time yeah this was two weeks into her detention this is just two weeks in yeah so at this point she had no idea that she was going to be in there for over another two months one i think at this point she was also not told why she was being detained no idea no idea it's like the idea of being detained for two weeks without even a explanation no i mean if i am locked up anywhere i want to know why i've been locked up yeah and then you can go about problem solving like what the hell happened yeah yeah so essentially she everly had lived her parents moved to america when she was just six years old her dad is a was brought over to work on the american railroad system he's a train driver uh so she's been raised here uh she had 13 years ago got caught with weed um that led to a conviction where she pleaded guilty um didn't think about it again didn't think about it affecting her immigration at all she's come and gone from america since this particular trip uh she comes back from new zealand uh enters lax and gets detained and carried away by ice so she had kind of a shitty lawyer to start with then they found a really good lawyer for her who basically fought tooth and nail to get her out the way they did that primarily was by getting that weed um conviction quashed well you walk through though there was a lot of annoyances and complications that they put her through even in that process right oh completely you know just getting court dates was hard and shifting her around i've actually i've got an email i'm going to read from her lawyer because it kind of speaks to how chaotic it was yeah so there was like there was zoom that was meant to be set up and then the detention center just didn't have internet that day yeah internet mysteriously dropped out and then another one where they then moved her yes which it seems conspiratorial to say that they're doing it intentionally but there were so many just flagrant things that were getting in the way of her having a fair trial completely that it it seemed like it was the goal to just fuck with people that are in these detention centers yeah and i agree with you when you say it it does sound conspiratorial but it's happened to so many people and i think there was such a clear case we have with eberly who we followed really closely just showing how that happened again and again and again yeah and i'm sorry the internet dropping out yeah come on and the thing was uh she was in a federal facility in a different state um her lawyer was getting her weed conviction quashed in a wisconsin court so the wisconsin judge had to talk to her lawyer and she was like oh my god i want to talk to her in a nice detention facility and that facility was not playing ball with that court in wisconsin at all so you know when you have ice not even playing ball with a court in a different state it's like where do you even begin to make that work yeah they weren't they were not making any attempts to no even justify why they were detaining her yeah a pretty reasonable thing to know why am i why do you take me away at lax or working towards a solution completely i mean when you visited her she still didn't know whether she was detained because maybe she had too many green cards issued accidentally or whether it was for this weed thing 13 years ago or something that she didn't even know about yeah her lawyer sent out a statement on june 18 uh the day that there'd been basically another of these mysterious delays where she was shunted along for another two weeks and i think he kind of summed up the chaos of what it's like in ice detention for so many people her lawyer said as you know the criminal conviction that formed the basis of the immigration case was successfully vacated in wisconsin so that she had a clean record yeah at this point it had been and they got that wiped off her record because essentially the lawyer that she had in that case advised her incredibly badly and had also since been disbarred for um faking a signature so her lawyer was rubbish essentially the state court determined that the conviction should be withdrawn because of constitutional defects in the original plea process following that victory marie immediately moved to terminate the immigration proceedings rather than addressing those issues promptly the case has been mired in delays and this is where he kind of sums up how everly was fucked around for so long the department of homeland security transferred everly from the adelanto detention facility in california to the eloy detention center in arizona despite physically moving everly to arizona the government allowed the case to remain assigned to the adelanto immigration court for a month before taking steps to transfer it and during that period valuable time passed where everly remained detained uh then there was the internet drop-offs and a variety of other missed dates no one should remain incarcerated while the government takes months to determine where a case belongs months to transfer a venue after physically relocating a detainee and months to produce evidence supporting the very allegations being used to justify detention yeah the next day everly finally got a break 19th of june the department of homeland security emailed everly's lawyer saying finally the government plans to file a motion to dismiss the above case without prejudice so the family heard this ice didn't communicate anything directly and then in the ice database their whole family had been watching closely suddenly in the database it just flicked to her being not there so she kind of vanished from things for a little bit the family didn't know she was if she was being released eventually everly calls from a um a visitor center in in arizona uh and said hey i'm free um someone at the visitor center had given her a pie some woman had come down for the local church and fed her and then it was just a matter of everly figuring out how to get reunited with her family well tell us her being let out too was also a little bit of a shock to her she's in arizona yes from wisconsin they have her id her green card passport yeah she was yeah and essentially she was released she got her stuff back except for the really key things that were her driver's license and passport yeah so you know that just brings up a very practical thing of like you've got no id you're just out on the street you can't rent a hotel without id yeah like how was she meant to do anything probably dead Yeah, I had to wait for a phone to charge up before she could call her parents and say hey this is where i am can you come and get me so sort of just spat back out into the world after all this time yeah stranded in arizona in june yeah just yeah phoenix phoenix is the phoenix is arizona right i'm not confused with location yeah the visitor center in phoenix is where she ended up and so then the family had to scramble to because they all live um in different places around the state so they had to scramble to actually come and get her well and no driver's license or passport it's not like everly can just hop on a plane no fly back no i mean you're a woman on your own at a visitor center it's also like it's a not a great place to be without id or any facilities so the whole journey was felt so haphazard i mean i feel like that's something you commented on early on it's just this whole thing is so haphazard the whole process yeah and it seems intentional intentionally that way yeah so what i wanted to do um is really spend a little bit of time with everly post all this happening and just kind of get a feeling for how her head was how her mom's feeling her thoughts on the states um and just get a bit more detail about what it was like in there because she was at various facilities for two and a half months which is you know there are people that have been in there for longer but two and a half months is still a pretty long time and put this little audio documentary together i've been reporting on every step of the journey over on the internet and i've been reporting on my journalism outlet webworm so this ran there a couple of weeks ago so if you're a webworm person you might be hearing this again but to be honest i think her and her mom are two of the most optimistic people i've met and i think they're kind of amazing to listen to my main takeaway and we'll talk about this after you hear from them but i get so pissy about nothing all the time and i kind of when i expected them when i met them i expected everly and her mom to both just be so angry and they sort of they're not and that surprised me because the shit i get angry at i mean that was my that was one of my takeaways when i visited her at that facility was just how she's like making jokes right yeah and yeah not under not knowing kind of the weight that this conversation would take or not of like what what i'm walking into here yeah yeah and just to say and and everly talks to this about the people that she met in there that are still in there but just to make it clear and i feel like the longer this goes on the harder it gets to talk about because it feels like you're rehashing what we all know yeah but isis is i think this is idea that ice have kind of backed off somehow because some of them more um i mean they haven't executed anyone in the last couple of days but they're still um picking people up on mass and there are still people who are still doing it and they're still doing it and they're caught up in the legal process like eberly was without any sense of when they will get in front of a judge and actually have a fair trial over any of this yeah or get a trial at all it goes on and on and on but yeah i don't say this i feel like this conversation is overall a positive one so i yeah i i think i'm just in awe of eberly and her mom so this is um this is our meeting um getting to see eberly in person involved a three-hour flight from la to dallas then another two hours from dallas to madison then it was a two-hour drive northeast up to a small town where eberly's mom lives which is where eberly is currently staying i drive past cornfield after cornfield there's a lot of corn in this part of wisconsin before pulling into a little subdivision a typical american slice of life all right pulling in i and an incredibly mellow black and white dog comes out to greet me tail wagging eberly's dog hey pup hello how are you hey buddy how's it going hi hello hey how's it going good to see you i love the dog good to see you good to see you on the outside fuck yes yep it's kind of strange meeting this person i know so much about but i've never actually seen in person the first thing that strikes me about eberly is that she looks so happy dressed in a black tee she's beaming my dad was saying he missed you he just went to work as i've been traveling eberly had been celebrating her nephew's first birthday with the family huge one-year-old he's massive typical polynesian baby i'm mainly struck by how normal everything seems talking about kids and dogs but eberly's dog is the biggest dog i've seen in my whole life year has been anything but normal over 70 days locked up in various ice prisons before being suddenly spat back out into the life she was living before well sort of the life she was living before a lot can change in three months we'll get to that the day i visit eberly's been free for about six weeks we move from the kitchen where we've been chatting around the kitchen counter to the couch where i get out my sound gear and hit record that day that you got released can you just sort of walk me through that day from like when you got woken up to being loaded onto that bus what how did that day shake out well they woke me up at 1 30 in the morning uh the lady the guard comes and she knocks our doors had all been locked um and so she came and unlocked my door and she goes you're leaving and so i immediately shot out of the bed and i rolled up my uh sheets got all like got all packed up and then i was i had written notes already because i knew i'd be getting out soon and so i was running through the hallways giving them to my like sliding them under people's doors and she came back and you know i was sitting downstairs and she goes what are you doing out and i go you said i was leaving and she goes you're not leaving till 3 30 and i look at the clock and it's only 1 30 and she goes i didn't think you were going to get out of bed so quick and i go well you said i was leaving i wasn't going to the doctor or anywhere you're not just going to lie in bed we'll go back to bed and i'm like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry to sleep with that news right and so i got ready right away uh and i was all set to go and so i just had to sit there and tool around um they made me sit in my room but i'd given heaps of my stuff away um but at 3 30 um they opened the doors to let me out and we went down to uh this place called south intake and when we got in there they took all of our things there were two guys in there a girl and a boy and they were pretty short um like short fuses and um so when we got in there they're like yelling at us put our stuff down go get changed they're giving us our clothes um and so we go get changed we put our regular clothes on and then um and then we just sit in this room and for a good probably two three hours at this point you've had three months of wins and then losses and wins and losses how can events were you that this was actually happening was it real to you at this point that you were getting out of here um no no not even not even then even in my regular clothes that whole day they were like quite horrible to us um the guards in what way i had so i had a backpack i got brought in from the airport and so i had a backpack with me plus i had all the property i had accumulated from you know atlanto and so i had like books papers and stuff and the man goes he gets i had two boxes there and he goes well you're gonna have to fit everything into this paper bag and i go my backpack as well and i he goes that's not my problem and then i started getting angry and i started swearing at him i just said i didn't pick to come here from the airport like this is all my stuff i'm not leaving anything here and the girls piped up and she said well you don't have to swear at him you know this this is just a misunderstanding i got this is his liaison between me my stuff and the jail and he said i couldn't bring it all so hearing this i could understand why everly was frustrated think of the one carry-on bag you take on a plane it's full of your most important things there's a reason you don't check it in and then the stuff from her life for the last 73 days letters from prison mates story she'd scroll down memory she needed to process once she was out you can't just let go of all that stuff and standing up for herself worked out she got to keep her things not just a paper bag's worth then she turned her attention to the others in the room there was this lady that had cancer that had been waiting to be transported so she was dressed in orange she had the head thing on and she had a walker by the door and every time they'd go out it would slam and she would kind of and they kept doing it to her and just looking past her and so i started hitting the door and the lady comes back and she goes what's going on and i said i don't know i don't know i don't know what and i go stop slamming the door in that sick lady's face and she turned around she looked at her and she goes what and i go you keep slamming the door in that sick lady's face and she goes why i didn't see her you didn't see her in the bright orange with the walker in front of the white wall you didn't see her i go that's look at her she's she's sick that's probably really horrible for her um so that happened uh they ended up shackling us also when we lived and i heard the chat we all went down have a look and um this was about 12 30 finally they got loaded onto a bus Yes, Evely was used to being moved around by this point. Court dates missed because Ice would just randomly shunt her to another facility. But right from the start, this trip felt more hopeful. There was the bus driver. He was so cool. He was talking in Spanish. I was just standing there and he goes, I'm like, I don't speak Spanish. I'm sorry. And he goes, the only person in this whole facility doesn't speak Spanish. But then he goes, where are you from? And I go, New Zealand. He goes, you're a Maori. I'm like, yeah. And he goes, oh, that's so cool. You're the first one I've ever met. And he came and shakes my hand. And they're putting on the things, the belly belt and the shackles, and I'm just grumbling. I don't want to wear the legs, shackles. I was like, those things are cheeks. I hate wearing them. And then he just looks and he goes, dang, it looks like you need big boy ones for your ankles. And he goes, I don't have any. And I go, must be I don't need them then. You can't wear them. And yeah, so I didn't have to have my legs shackled. He was so cool. The bus set off from the Eloy Detention Centre, briefly stopping at another ICE facility in Florence, a place known for charming things like regular measles outbreaks. Then it was a few hours north to the city of Phoenix. Everly says most of the people on the bus were sleeping after what had been a very, very long night. They were woken up again as the bus, pulled into a Department of Homeland Security facility. That's when people panicked and they thought that we were just getting dropped off there and transported to a different facility. But the bus driver said there, he goes, no, everybody can relax. You're all going home today. Imagine finally hearing those words. From there, it was the final leg to the visitor's centre. At some point, you've gone for three months of being in prison to freedom. Was there a particular moment where you kind of went, holy shit, this is over now? It was when we were actually getting off the bus and the people, like the visitors came and they were hugging everybody. And that was too, I thought, oh, wow, you know, we're actually out. And like everybody in the bus was like, I can't believe it. You know, and then we're all hugging each other, hugging the guards. A local church group was there waiting. They came with boxes of food and drinks and clothing. This wasn't some state funded group or an official part of the ICE process. They were just volunteers. Mutual aid at its finest. I'd never met any of those ladies before, but we're all holding hands, walking into the, walking into the church. They brought us food too. They just, they were just serving us, bringing us whatever we wanted, you know. And then who was, you called your mum? I called my mum right away. She was the first one and she goes, have you called anybody else? And I go, no. And so I just let her know that I was out. And then I called my, I called the family group chat and so they, they thought that my grandmother was calling everybody by accident again. And so, you know, they all kind of slowly hopped on there, but it was the same reaction from everybody because I was just, hi. And, you know, I talked to my family, but then we have a cousin's group chat from our holiday. I saw my aunt posted the thing. I think maybe you posted it. Everly has been released after 73 days. And so they had put that in the group chat, but I just like write and they go, kia ora. And then the cousins started trying to call and, um, no, it wasn't wicked. It was really cool. In the months of writing about Everly's case, I'd never imagined those stories were being flung around in family group chats. Revelations all around, I guess. My mum said, she goes, wow, your hair is so much longer. Eventually, Everly made her way from the visitor's center in Phoenix to an Airbnb her parents had booked. She couldn't check into a hotel because she discovered ICE had kept her passport and ID. My cousins were so good to everybody, the whole family. Nobody's trying to overwhelm. They were just, oh, let me know when you're ready. You know, we can, we can talk. Um, they had asked, they, they all had rides for me. You know, if I needed a ride, they had friends there that could come and get me. Um, everybody was ready to have their people there, but when I got to the Airbnb, my cousin called because she was like, are you all right? And I go, ah, a bit weird being alone, eh? And so she talked to me for hours, but then she called her sister. And so it was probably six of us on the FaceTiming all at the same time after that. And just till my parents got there. It had been 73 days since Everly had last seen her mum and dad. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from. Our sponsors support for Flightless Bird comes from Cozy Earth. Now I'm incredibly excited about the timing of partnering with Cozy Earth because I've only recently discovered how I don't love my sheets very much. I stayed in an amazing bed in Australia recently, and they were really amazing sheets. I was like, I need to get some good sheets. I'm in bed all the time. I have Cozy Earth sheets now on my bed and they are amazing. It is like, you know, that feeling. When you sleep in really good hotel sheets, that's Cozy Earth. You're essentially having your own luxury experience in your own bed and you kind of feel like you're slipping into a bed at a five star resort. I think it's the texture of the things. Um, they're really soft and smooth and lightweight. And the other thing is this is maybe TMI, but I'm a hot sleeper. And if you're a hot sleeper, Cozy Earth sheets are so good because they're breathable and they naturally wick away moisture so you don't wake up with. That clammy feeling in the morning, which is the worst thing we, it's like, it's not full sweat, but you're just like overheating with Cozy Earth. For me, that problem has gone also really, really beautiful colors. I have these incredible Navy blue sheets. They also do this. Oh, they're just, you'll find a color that you like. Believe me, they also have a 100 night sleep trial, so you can try them for yourself. Returns are really easy, but I think once you feel them on your body, you're not going to want to return. Them to be honest, and they also have a 10 year warranty, which shows that Cozy Earth stands behind what it makes. So if you want to do what I did and revamp your bed situation and feel so, so good, head to CozyEarth.com and use my code bird for up to 20% off. That's code bird for up to 20% off. And if you see a post purchase survey, please be sure to mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Endless summer escapes start here. Travel the worlds of Netflix IRL. Inspired by fan favorites like Stranger Things and Squid Game. Brave the upside down. Face off with the front man. Play leveled up arcade games. Shop exclusive merch. And enjoy themed food and drinks. Beat the heat. Play, eat, and shop on repeat at Netflix House at Galleria Dallas. Bring your crew and save. Get your tickets today at Netflix.com slash house. This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. For 125 years, Nordstrom has been part of your story. The stylist who found the perfect outfit for your big interview. The first pair of walking shoes for your one-year-old. The tomato soup you shared with your sister at the cafe. These are the moments that make Nordstrom, Nordstrom. Big or small, we're here for all of it. Celebrating 125 years with new moments still ahead. Discover it all in Nordstrom stores and at Nordstrom.com. The last time you would have seen them would have been at LAX, right? Coming back from New Zealand. Yeah, I had that image of them all huddled together too, like watching me. They knew something was wrong when they, like, oh, they're just going to take me to the back for a little bit. And the man goes, she'll meet you at the carousel. But it was the way they were staring at me. They didn't leave until they couldn't see me through the doors anymore because I kept turning around to have a look. And they, my mom was just, you could see. He was just scared. So was my dad. The little kids didn't know what was going on, but. So that had been the last time I'd seen them. At this point, I hear a car pull in. Everly's mom, Betty's back from work. It's the first time I've met her in person too. And she's got a grin as big as Everly's. We sit around the table and I want to know what it was like for her and her husband, Gordon, at LAX. What they saw as that kid was led away. When she walked away with the border patrol, I, you know, when they talk about, you know, your ice water in your veins, that's what it felt like. You just, you just feel yourself go numb. And it really was, you know, and you just feel, I'm like, you couldn't, I couldn't even talk. I was just like, I just knew something was going to happen. And, you know, and then we had to leave her and fly back to Wisconsin. And that was, I think, Gordon and I. I nearly got into an argument over that. You know, we were just very stressed out. And it was just the worst feeling, you know, even having her call and say, you know, I'll be being detained by ICE. You just feel hollowed out. And coming here, you, all of us, we're just hollow. We, we, we just didn't know what to do at that point. Fast forward those 70 or so days and Everly's family had done a lot. Turns out. getting a green card holder out of an ICE prison It isn't as easy as you might think. But they did it. Everly got free. We had rented an Airbnb for Everly to wait at, you know, because she didn't have any ID so she couldn't go in a hotel. We couldn't book her a hotel. And Gordon and I scrambled and we found an Airbnb and we got it, gave her the address, she got an Uber there, and then I just said, wait there and go shower, swim, wait for us, we'll be there later on and, you know, your brothers will be there too. We walk in and she's there. Her two brothers and my daughter-in-law were there waiting and I went to hug Everly and one of them had picked up a phone and I just looked at them like, no. There were a lot of hugs and I get the temptation to take some photos. They got one of Gordon but I think I just kind of gave them the look, like no photos right now. Yeah. Someone will die tonight if that happens. My dad's not a hugger. I've gotten, before this, he had given me two hugs in my whole life and then he gave me one right when he got there too and then when he was going to, you know, when they said goodnight, gave me another hug and then when they left the next day, he gave me a hug and I'm like, Dad, you've doubled the amount of hugs I've ever gotten in my whole life. He's like, ah, get lost. Everly says that first night out, while amazing, was also incredibly difficult. Could you sleep or was it like the best sleep of your life or just an awful sleep? Like what is that like? It was, I, it was so weird. There was a huge bed, I had a king size bed, but I stayed in like the cot, like the same size as the cot. I didn't expand from there. And it was, I, it was not a good sleep. No, I kept hearing the, the key chains, you know, key chains jingling. So I would just open my eyes and then realize I wasn't in there. And then when I would fall asleep, I'd go, Quenta. And so I'd just like go to stand up and. What is that usually? Is that when they come to check on you? Yeah, Quenta is count. But it was mostly people spoke Spanish. And so that's, what they'd say, they'd just say, Quenta. And then you'd have to stand up by your door. And then they would walk past the door, you know, look at the slip, make sure it matched up with your badge and your face, and then you could go back to bed. And so the first couple of days, I just kept hearing that in the key chains. How are you in general right now? I have these little bouts when I'm by myself. I just bouts of despair. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to get out of this. heavily staid things like facilities and detention centers but make no mistake they're prisons privately owned prisons that are financially rewarded for being full of prisoners and in prison prison things happen there were multiple fights that happened in atalanta um and so there was one particular fight there where there were these two girls they fought at the phone the one girl hit the girl with the phone but and then they were all yelling and screaming so they all sent us up you know sent us up to our beds but then the lieutenant it's supposed to be when they call i think it was a code yellow and they call code yellow everybody is supposed to run into that dorm but it was just the old man and this one little lady but he comes in and he has his like mace and he's have you ever seen what's that movie with russell gladiator have you ever seen that how do you okay so there's a part where he's like you know looking down and the whole crowd is like yelling at him and he's just like so the man comes in and it was just like that we're all up in our dorms there's people downstairs and we're all like on the rails to like looking down at the fight that had just broken out and he's like everybody to your beds but everybody's screaming at him that feeling of not having control over what you could do and being locked away how was how did that feel you just felt helpless often too you know um like the transport i think was the most i'd never i've never felt so helpless before in my life i've never because i've never felt so helpless before in my life because i've never felt so helpless before in my life because i've never felt so helpless before in my life because i've never felt so helpless before in my life because there it was just being herded around um even with the shackles you know you're going where they tell you to go when you need to go to the bathroom you just get one hand out of your shackles um and then it was just the way that you were treated like like farm animals you know they were just you'd try and ask questions and they're like but you know they'd wave you off and it's just like look this is this is absolutely crazy and so not having control over anything was i'm very particular about things too and so that was one of the hardest things for me was just not being able to like really even advocate for myself or advocate for others around it was just you had to do what they wanted when they wanted you to do it and it's a you know humiliating experience i think that when we were transported to everybody like people were crying on the plane lots of people they didn't know what was happening they were taking people from california and they were taking people from california and moving them further away from their families people that would visit them things like that now she has to figure out how to live her life with all of that still in her head you know you've got your green card at the moment i don't imagine you want to leave the country with that right now like what's your thinking about that and america in general i know this is all pretty fresh still i i mean it's left it's left a very dirty mark on america for me you know and i hate to say it um i i'm like i'm so proud to be from new zealand i love going back then you know i love telling people i'm from new zealand and so this i feel like just the way i was treated that's in the way they've treated people that i've seen i just feel like that's not part of the american dream that i ever thought would be that's not part of the american dream i want to be in so while she's happy to be back with her family and her friends and her dog she also moves through the world now with a certain amount of worry a certain amount of dread it's you know hard after something like this i just feel i paid taxes here i've like you know i contribute to my community here i'm i did a lot and i just feel like for the way that i was treated was just so mind-boggling i can't still can't really believe it i think being out is i do feel anxious i feel very anxious about the whole you know because what what will they find you know if they were to if i were to say i got pulled over by the police and i swear to come like what would they find i feel like anything any excuse to fill a bed in one of the detention centers make the place a bit more money i don't think anybody's really safe from them for all the people that i met that are stuck in there like immigrants innocent people and it wasn't you know the people that i saw and they weren't the criminals that donald trump said they were housewives business owners doctors i keep going back to the transport but they gave us all our regular clothes when we left when we were getting transported and they were people that they like had they were in their high fives they still had like mud on their pants they were pregnant people there was a pregnant lady there were children it was just these people that they picked up at the job sites that's not a criminal person you picked him up from work you know at some point evilly gets up and starts banging around in the kitchen she's making something and it smells pretty good what's it like having evilly in in the house at the moment have you sort of gotten used to it yet no sometimes you kind of walk out here and she's sitting there and it's like oh evilly it's been awesome we've um just really have loved having you know you kind of appreciate your kids a little bit more when they're being kept away from you and it's just been yeah it's been awesome having a home and how are you doing because i feel like for you it was a pretty intense three months it feels like you were sort of running the ship essentially like how do you feel right now i just just relieved um you know i didn't really realize how affected i was i thought i was doing pretty good at kind of keeping things together and um after evilly came home i was at work my boss comes in and he's like we're chatting with him and he goes i'm really glad evilly's back and i said yeah me too and he goes it's just nice to have you back and i'm like what he goes you've been really dark yeah he goes you've been really dark and he goes and we didn't know what to do i feel like you were juggling so many balls at different times did that come pretty naturally or is it something you've always sort of done um i'm the oldest in my family so it's just something that we've always done and then you know we have six kids and we've had to juggle them and um i think we've been really blessed in a way that we've had our kids have been able to step up and really really help and take the ball you know um courtney and i have been really in utah they they've been rock stars reading here um you know or everyone has had a task to do and yeah we've been really blessed that way with um with the kids but um i i have been told i'm very controlling so maybe that's why can you back that up evs can confirm and speaking of confirming things back to how when all this started new zealand's minister of foreign affairs winston peters went on the tv news and confirmed to a nation why everly had been detained at lax his confirmation was false we know that now he said she'd failed to fill in some forms like she'd been hiding something that she somehow got what she deserved it's a narrative that a lot of people in new zealand still believe look at the comment section under various news stories on social media and winston peters i'm just you know looking back now you know winston peters he he worries me for our country he really does he just he's like a mini trump in new zealand for me um but just um just someone who can brazenly lie you know and tell people oh everly didn't fill out some forms correctly and that's why you know she she let she missed information that just to blatantly lie like that was just i couldn't believe it and then at first i thought maybe he didn't know and i'm like but he's the minister of foreign affairs how can he not know and and then you come to the realization that he just straight out lied he's a liar a bald-faced liar what was the consulate like um to begin with they weren't very helpful you know um i called everly called and i what one of her calls she was asked by i don't know if it was an assistant like you know what do you want us to do what are they supposed to do i've never i've never been in this situation i just want them to do something did that comms get better as time went on or was it sort of yeah um they were great like three three years ago i was like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry three weeks in they um after my calls my daughter's calls everly's calls um they finally called back and um asked how i was doing and i went this must have been during one of my dark times because i went i went aren't you meant to be helping everly because i really don't understand how that question is going to help everly in any way and he goes oh we're just you know we're just to you know contact family and support them and you can support us by helping and you know poor poor dude I must have kicked him around you're nodding heavily well when he came to visit he was just he was like a kicked puppy I felt so sorry when I walked him I was like oh man I'm really sorry about my family like I'm there but you know very passionate and I'm sorry and he goes oh that's what families are supposed to do but he ticked off all the boxes yeah he was uh very very helpful and then I called mum when I got back and I go mum we have to be nice to that man because I was going in for round two I was like I'm ready for you as time went by other Kiwi politicians gave Betty some hope they weren't all like Winston Peters and yeah this stuff does get so political but then also there's just a case to be made for being honest and being kind for Betty Labour's spokesperson for immigration comes to mind Phil Twyford texted me and goes hey what can we do and so you know we talked back and forth with him and um you know he he did his part he took part in um the protest march with for Everly um the the Maori party were awesome you know that they were they were they were they were they were they were they were fantastic and they're so supportive how does this leave you feeling at the moment with I mean obviously you've been in the U.S. for a very long time you've got grandkids here now like how you know how is this I know it's only been a month since Everly got out but how do you feel about the kids here and different levels of citizenship and green cards and all the rest of it it's just a it's a very scary time um you know I I worry like I worry for Everly you know this happening to her again I worry for Reden you know we've got two people that aren't citizens and um it's very worrisome and you know the new things that they're coming up with like the naturalization bill that they try to push through you know it failed once but it doesn't mean that they're not going to push it try again you know so it's it's worrisome um yeah I think um is it worrisome to the point where we would go home maybe I'm not sure this is your life here though right this is like your home this is everything yeah totally yeah it would be just really hard to leave because um we had planned on leaving when Gordon retired and he's looking at retiring this year and um but then our kids went and had kids who love us and want to be around us and call us and you know and just um and that that's made it hard for you know that that's made it difficult for us to want to leave grandkids are the fun bit right yeah they're way better than the kids way better Emily there's been a lot of beeping while we've been talking and you've been making something what have you been what have you been whipping up uh crispy artichoke hearts I saw a video on Facebook I wanted to try it I know I brought this up a little bit earlier but what were you um what were you mainly eating in there what was the food like um all soy meat products so no regular meat uh and then beans and rice was the main two times a day beans uh and rice and soy meat like much fresh stuff like fruit or vegetables um sometimes we'd get an apple but uh on Saturdays and Sundays at Eloy um there was bagged lunch um and so you get an apple those days and then sandwiches for dinner both days um but apple was about it no fresh fruit nothing like that no fresh vegetables it'd be nice to just eat what you want to eat now yeah this is artichoke hearts it's been ages the viral crispy artichokes tasted great and listening back to the recordings of that day there's just so much chatting and laughter and yeah we ate way too many of those viral artichokes to the point that when we went out to dinner later we couldn't even begin to finish what we'd ordered by the time I said goodbye I felt like I was going to explode I drove back off into the corn driving back to Madison Betty texts me to make sure I made it back safely I had the next day some messages from Everly too she sent me a video it was eight seconds long and it's soundtracked by music blasting from a speaker it's a terrifically bright day and she's out in the middle of a lake on a paddleboard surrounded by sparkling blue water and a giant blue sky it's just her and she's about as free as any human could be stay tuned for more flightless bird we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors support for flightless bird comes from you shopify now if you're anything like me you're pretty good at putting things off in your life and then years go by and you maybe start a thing and you're like why didn't I do this a couple of years ago I almost feel like this with this podcast I'd wanted to start a consistent podcast for a long time I just put it off and now I feel like we're almost a couple of hundred episodes into flightless bird and I'm so glad that I just took the step thank you Rob good god my point is if you've been sitting on any kind of business idea then shopify is the thing that makes it really easy to make it all happen everything you need to start selling is included and ready from day one also all shopify storefronts are integrated with the checkout for free you pay no additional fee for this service which makes your life so much easier which makes the life of your customers so much easier it's also a one-click checkout if you're selling things that's really important it's good for the customer it's good for you and because it handles both setup and checkout you have more time to spend on your business than you have time to focus on growing your business which is the fun bit you're not tied up fixing mistakes you want to be spending your time in the sun enjoying these precious moments with the people that you want to spend time with shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide from household names to just small ones that are just getting started that could be you so with shopify nothing stands between your idea and a real business so go make it one if you're ready to stop putting off your business and start hearing then you're ready for shopify start your free trial at shopify.com bird today you heard that right start your free trial today at shopify.com bird that's shopify.com bird endless summer escapes start here travel the worlds of netflix irl inspired by fan favorites like stranger things and squid game brave the upside down face off with the front man play leveled up arcade games exclusive merch and enjoy themed food and drinks beat the heat play eat and shop on repeat at netflix house at galleria dallas bring your crew and save get your tickets today at netflix.com slash house this episode is brought to you by nordstrom for 125 years nordstrom has been part of your story the stylist who found the perfect outfit for your big interview the first pair of walking shoes for your one-year-old the tomato soup you shared with your sister at the cafe these are the moments that make nordstrom nordstrom big or small we're here for all of it celebrating 125 years with new moments still add discover it all in nordstrom stores and at nordstrom.com um shortly after evilly had sent me that really joyous photo of her paddleboarding in the middle of just an empty lake she sent a text also can you thank rob for me when you get a chance i was in a bad way before he came and that really lifted my spirits we were strangers but we weren't he was easy to talk to and the visit alone did wonders for my mental health um i just wanted to pass that on and was reflecting on it uh which is because it was an odd situation it's like she didn't know you you didn't know her yep um and yeah when i was there she said um it's her friends and prison mates for like who are you going to meet and she's like i don't know it's just what it's like oh yeah i'd like to make some podcast um anyway she did really appreciate that uh which is um it's just yeah she was at the two just two weeks in yeah at that point with no idea that all this other shit was to follow yeah i mean the what happened to her is still so mind-boggling yeah and i think she's figuring out how to live with that and how that feels um she's also got this situation where it's not like she got out and immediately she's like i don't know i don't know she goes back to work like she's looking for a job now and sort of figuring that out and she's still got her place because the family said i would go fund me and that kept her place but she doesn't want to be there alone at the moment because she's just it just feels weird well yeah i mean you have these people that have been wrongfully convicted for years and when they're let out and brought back into society not knowing what to do i mean this is a smaller scale version of that but it's still people wrongfully detained and it's not like anyone is taking care of them because they're seen as criminals completely so like you're yeah they're let out in a much worse state than they were when they even went in yeah um and then micro version of that just the impact that it's having on people in these communities that came here and have built a life are now having to live in fear and the fact that they're concerned about her getting picked up again or yeah one of her siblings or yeah no just all of that she has i mean speaking of that her car has been pulled over once when her mum was driving it because she's still flagged in the system somehow so her car has been pulled over inevitably she will at some point and was also just speaking to the people that are detained what she said to me stood out that on that bus when they got their clothes back which had probably been like sealed up when they went away they were like people back in their hivers vests with mud in it and shit like road workers and landscapers and all the rest of it it's just like yeah and we've said this a million times but it's not the kind of people that um the administration says that they are no and the people that don't have someone on the outside that can fight for them yeah that's the other crazy thing i mean lucy who she was talking about and so many of the people in there like evilly had a shitty time but she had a lawyer and a family like parents and siblings and cousins that were all and you know the media in new zealand like all pushing yeah uh and so many people we don't even know who they are that are locked up well yeah you you would hope that the system is in place that uh what's right will prevail but there is no actual thought that that's what's happening here and crazy i mean it seems like yeah everything in america at this point is pushing back against those that don't have anything i was just reading about the um the food stamp system here in the u.s that's been completely cramped up down on in various states and people aren't getting the help they need there that was like the one kind of form of socialism that seemed to be working in the states a little bit where we care about people that don't have anything well there's low education low income educations also on the chopping block now and some more recent news and meanwhile you sent me this link the other day you've got a president that's planning kind of a what sounds like a hunger games-esque tournament the patriots the patriot games just explain this to me briefly um we we i think need to do a patreon episode on this where we just watch and observe this but apparently one male and female representative from high schools are selected for each state and they're going to compete in the 2026 patriot games yes for donald trump that's so yeah kids in front of trump i don't know if i had kids i wouldn't put them anyway yeah yeah i mean you can't make up yeah the levels of parody involved at the moment had just been sane and bonkers um and then very real world consequences like what happened to evilly but it seemed like important to kind of you know we talked about when she was um locked away i think it's nice to kind of follow up and just see how people are doing after and all things considered doing crazy well again that what i said at the beginning of i feel like i complain about the smallest things she was obviously she's dealing with so much shit but she wasn't there i thought when i met her it might be you know a day of moaning but it wasn't it was kind of reflecting on things with humor and perspective and worrying more about other people still stuck there than there was no woe is me i mean that was my experience exactly my experience with her as well when she was locked up in there it's like it's a pretty amazing attitude but her whole family is like that and it's that sense of humor and that not gonna stew in their own misery you know but i mean for something that like for something that's causing her ptsd and issues with sleep and no repercussions for the system that put her through that and are continuing to do that to other people without concern that they're causing all of this trauma in people that don't deserve it completely yeah the fact that in that airbnb she was in the corner basically and uh and she was like i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know she was in this like shape of her cot that she was in in the prison waking up and hearing jangling keys like that's i say she was in there for two and a half months some people she was in there with have been in there for 16 months and that'll just be getting longer and longer if you have feedback um or any stories you'd like to pass on in regards to ice or what we've been talking about it's always flightlessbredchat at gmail.com we love to hear from you a little bit of feedback from some former episodes sen and rodan saying i was listening to your chat and i was listening to about communion at the end of the gaming episode i grew up catholic in ireland and around the ages of eight to ten my brother and i were both alt servers essentially the kids that wear gowns on the altar and assist the priest ring the bell and all that stuff after mass in the rooms in the back of the church while the priests would be saying goodbye we would devour what we would call communion sandwiches essentially it was just going into the big box of communion um wafers and stacking them to see how they were doing and i was like i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know how many we could fit in our mouths in one bite it's truly feral saltine cragger challenge i'm sure over the years we must have gotten through thousands of wafers this way as they were very thin just fyi uh the church believes they turn into the body and blood of christ once they are blessed during mass when you eat the body you're not supposed to bite as you could be biting jesus's body just leave it on your tongue and that jesus's body melts and disintegrate any blessed communion that was left over is stored in an incredibly lavish golden box called the tabernacle which was locked with the key only the priest had access to so we never had access to the real good stuff uh thank you for that email i sent him i didn't realize you weren't supposed to chew it i don't know if that was or it was communicated to me at such a young age that i yeah yeah i mean it's the it's the body of jesus i knew that part yeah but but i feel like melting on your tongue and chewing they're both yeah i mean it's the same result it ends up in your stomach right makes it seem a little makes it feel grosser that explanation though um i can't believe you're biting on jesus's body thigh wonder thigh what body parts joe also wrote in about that gaming episode the gaming feedback keeps rolling in i'm 64 years old i'm a retired math teacher um i started video games at the beginning text-based games on university computers via terminals star trek specifically then arcade games and the local bowling center pong battle zone asteroids moving to my college years i worked at a donut shop they had a few arcade games i could play for free on my breaks got into asteroids sequel that was called space duel i just like that joe is listing his history with games i find this very cute fast forward to my early years as a teacher and parent um i got an nes console and played the legend of dalda so much that i could play completely through without ever dying and i was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna dying including the boss level at the end it's the end of joe's email it's like a life of gaming i love this and i like the idea of being there from the beginning day dot and just finally um so many people were emailing about my fruit fly problem i got a plant and it came coupled with fungus gnats not fruit flies tell talk to us about this journey you've been on have you solved it you've gotten a lot of suggestions yes so many i have solved it um essentially what i thought were fruit flies were fungus gnats they come in a lot of plants apparently and they infest your plant that you just bought in but then they'll infest all the other plants twofold system you got to kill the adults so i bought off amazon horrific platform but i still use it these sticky kind of um little panels that you put into the dirt and so the sticky and the adults are attracted to the bright colors yellow they stick on it they die that eliminates the adults for the youngsters that are breeding in the soil uh you get something called mosquito bits which are these little like that's like sort of kitty litter almost like little pallets you brew that into a tea in a big bucket for a few days it kind of stinks and smells disgusting but once that tea is brewed you then water your plants every um three to four weeks and that eventually kills the young larvae that is um brewing in your soil so mosquito bites bits bites who knows um and those sticky things for the adults i now have one last gnat that is in my house just one you you're just keeping it as a pet i'm keeping it as a pet um i tried to kill it a few times it kept evading me i kind of respect that it's avoiding all the traps i've said it's evolved and it just it's evolved and it just lives there um i've named him rob and he's kind of cute and he drifts around and i'll say good morning to him and good night and um but But all his siblings and family and friends are all dead, which feels fucking great. You've murdered. I've murdered them all. oh yeah he doesn't know that or he's plotting i'm plotting thank you for everyone that wrote in for advice because it really was fucking me up i'd get home and i'd just be just a barrage of tiny horrific gnats in my face awful it's no way to live and now you can help solve this issue for other people i can um mosquito bits get them 10 out of 10 if you have feedback for the show uh flightlessbirdchat at gmail.com we're also as always over on patreon we've got bonus episodes every week different threads going on discussion patreon.com slash flightlessbird and you can watch us on youtube or spotify we're in a beautiful studio we've got beautiful props a lot of easter eggs in our set that you may or may not notice not actual easter eggs but things that are of interest yeah i just wanted to clarify yeah yeah what how do you get an easter egg what is an easter egg it's just like it's referencing something else yeah yeah but an easter egg is also a little plastic egg that are you typically will have candy in it i see which would make sense for you to keep because i love candy easter eggs around i'm doing better i've got a policy now of not buying any sugar when i'm at the supermarket and if you don't buy it you don't eat it did you have any sugar today i may have had some sugar today in the form of a marshmallow yes and i can feel it coursing through it the crash is the worrying but sugar i don't know if you know this it's not good for you nope in fact it's quite bad for you my bad yeah and so in my 40s i'm trying to eat less i'm gonna be healthy i want to live i'm gonna be like brian johnson and live forever and uh drain your son's blood drain my son's blood god he's a weird man all right we'll see you next week see you next week you In the summer escape start here travel the worlds of netflix irl inspired by fan favorites like stranger things and squid game brave the upside down face off with the front man play leveled up arcade games shop exclusive merch and enjoy themed food and drinks beat the heat play eat and shop on repeat at netflix house at galleria dallas bring your crew and save get your tickets today at netflix.com slash house hank joined bj's wholesale club the day he became a father of 30 i coach football now coach hank saves up to 25 off grocery store prices 30 pounds of pasta three cases of protein bars 75 sports drinks and that's just pre-game he knows teamwork and bj's knows savings this is your home coach home of the save join for just 20 at bjs.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months open soon limited time offer new members only bj's home of the save