LGBT In The Ring Ep. 324: Scotty Rawk

[Music] Hello, lovelies. Welcome to another edition of LGBT in the ring your rainbow bastion for all things pro wrestling. I am your host Brian Bell here with you once again. We have a very fun one in store for all of y'all today. We are welcoming on the dogs, bollocks, Scotty Rock to the show. Scotty is someone who has been building his name over more than a decade now at this point in pro wrestling over in the UK and outside of his own country into multiple nations in Europe at this point. He is on the cusp of making an American debut as well. He is a shape in ship all over the UK. His story is one that goes beyond just the wrestling aspect of things here. Like so many stories on this show do, you know, from coming out publicly in the ring at F.E. Big A. Burns UK three last year at TNT Extreme to the natural evolution of his relationship with his partner that had pro wrestling very much at the heart of it, what brought them together. But ultimately how that is evolved into what Scotty very affectionately calls in our chat pro wrestling heated rivalry. So to speak. And just how you know them being together and helped Scotty kind of embrace his own queerness. After an upbringing where you know there's a very cultural kind of oppression on the idea around you know homosexuality very heteronormative environments that really kept him closeted for a long time. And you know how similar to his overcoming mental health and substance issues is able to overcome and really come to understand himself fully in that way and how over the last year it's you know helped him to continue building momentum in his wrestling career and beyond in a lot of ways. You know it's it's a really interesting story and I'm glad that Scotty came on the show to kind of delve into it a bit more and we talk about more than just that. But you know I think that that's really going to paramount to Scotty story and I'm very happy to be able to share it here with all of y'all today. Before we get there though like we've been doing during pride month I'm going to let y'all know what pro wrestling stuff we have going on in the days between here this weekend is our first it's our first weekend of pride month and good lord. There are a lot of events going on this weekend to get to here to touch on for anyone who wants to go embrace their queerness through pro wrestling wants to celebrate queerness in pro wrestling there are plenty of opportunities to do so all over the US and the UK which starting off we mentioned this in the show. Scotty is going to be at fist club tonight along with a number of other outstanding queer talents fist clubs the big one goes down tonight June 5th over in London England. We also have tomorrow June 6th it's a heavy day for for the queer community and wrestling full queer once upon a time in a wrestling ring is going to go down and Berkeley California on June 6th as well as cap a wrestles for show of pride month at Hartford pride and hard for Connecticut. That's a free show as is the full queer show both of those shows are free to attend if you're in the areas my neck of the woods a little bit north but still in the cascaded Pacific Northwest whatever you want to call it boom pro wrestling on the ropes it's a night of drag queer art performance and pro wrestling all plitted together in cooperation with new West pride over a new West Mister bridge Columbia just outside of Vancouver. Pro wrestling symphony down in Nashville Tennessee is running their resistance show on on June 6th as well defy wrestling is going to be doing their annual pride show for I believe the third year in a row now that they've been doing this over at Larry at bar. You know the every year they crown a white center pride champion which of course this event coincides with white center pride there just outside of Seattle. So yeah it's pretty dope there big valley wrestling is running their annual loud and proud show loud and proud six on June 6th in Las Vegas Nevada. Dusk pro up in Vancouver bridge Columbia comes back with another show on June 7th the wrestling outside your window standing stuff there and that is it for for the weekend it's going to be a whole lot of stuff going on if you're in the areas for for any of those shows definitely check them out I'm sure some number of these shows will be up streaming at some point as well so definitely keep your eye out for all this. And let's continue celebrating pride month through pro wrestling in the way that only pro wrestling can provide for sure. Alright so we're going to take a quick break and on the other side my conversation with Scotty rock. Alright y'all thank you so much for tuning in to LGBT in the ring just take a quick break here to let you know ways that you can support the show and say thank you to some very rad people that help make this show as amazing as it is. First off if you would like to support the show we are on patreon now patreon.com slash LGBT ring pod multiple tiers there for everyone that feels so moved to support this show we've got numerous patron benefits over there including bonus shows that are going to be coming out on monthly round table of those sort of things so definitely go over and check us out again patreon.com slash LGBT ring pod every single dollar that is pledge there to support the show is very very humbling and we thank you we also have a merch store over on brainbuster tees go to brainbuster tees.com search LGBT in the ring. 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He is the current wrestling North ultra violent champion, current wrestling East men's champion, former BWR heavyweight champion, former TNT Extreme Ultra X champion, the dog's bollocks, Scotty rock is here today. How are you doing today, Scotty? I am all good, my man. It is an absolute pleasure to be here. Thank you for such a wicked introduction. That was quite a list of accolades you gave me there. You put me over strong, bro. I'm only listing what you've accomplished. I say this a lot with people on the show, I can't say the things that I say or do the things that I do without y'all going out there and accomplishing the things that you do. I run through that list of championships that you either currently hold or have held. That's just a tip of the iceberg when it comes to the reputation that you've built in the UK and across Europe at this point now, 12 years into your 11-12 years into your career, at this point. It's been a really interesting journey to watch from the origins of you in Grimsby with cobbling together along with your crew there, including your partner now Adam with BWR and how this whole thing has exploded into your work with TNT, your work in Copious other European nations. You've been all over the continent, you've been all over the world. I think really the only place you haven't been to wrestle and correct me if I am wrong is like, I haven't seen you have a US date yet, but I could be wrong there. Please correct me if I am. The US is actually a goal of mine this year and it's closer than you might think to be fair. I've got conversations that are being had with some pretty important people and obviously I've got some people that are pretty important themselves about reaching for me that I've come up through with like being trained by Nathan Cruz who is now sort of Ring of Honor and producing for AEW. I was brought up with training at Fight Inspirit with the Grizzled Young Veterans. I came up with training with because he's like my hometown boy, he was Lincoln and he now lives in Grimsby when he's not flying to New Japan or CML in Mexico. It's crazy. But I think, yeah, it's all the reputation, all the good things that I've put out there has all just been a testament to that true punk rock DIY upbringing. If you want a job doing and doing well, you've got to dig deep and do it yourself, right? That's kind of whether the origin comes from just being able to really dig deep into who I am, look into the mirror and give out that best performance and best performer version of myself to anyone that graces a rep for rest in showing the UK or in Europe or soon to be the United States, man. No, I'm excited for you to come to the States side, honestly. I'm excited because I know the talent that you bring, I know how you have built yourself and evolved yourself and developed over the years as well. It's a truly unique path that you have carved out for yourself over the years. Obviously you're in London now, but Grimsby, the punk DIY aesthetic that you preach is one that very much comes from the heart considering starting out in Grimsby where there wasn't really much of a wrestling scene building a company like BWR if they are to give Grimsby a wrestling scene and see how it is exploded in the way that it has up to the point that y'all had like what a thousand people in the building a couple of years back for. Yeah, yeah. It was a revolution. The evolution was our sort of biggest ever show that we hired the Grimsby Auditorium for, which is the Grimsby's biggest venue. And yeah, we had over a thousand people in that venue all to see the spectacle that what was BWR, this brand that we've built from the ground up, from the rubble, from the remnants of whatever sort of back yard sort of second rate training school promotion that was kind of left dying and we all kind of banded together as a band of brothers because we were passionate about pro wrestling and we were passionate about indie wrestling and we wanted to put out the best product that we can. We had lined that with a huge like eight man war games style steel cage match which spilled out into the audience and we were the brawls from sort of seat to seat. We were going through the audience of all these like a thousand people and me and Adam actually did the Lion King balcony spot in front of the Grimsby's biggest wrestling crowd. Yeah, it was it was some real cinema. But coming up in Grimsby like I feel like Grimsby does get quite a bad rap because it's been registered and recognised as the UK's most deprived town. It is the poorest sort of real fist, the crime rates are one of the highest they are anywhere in the country. It really is. It has been voted numerous years as the worst place to live in the UK. So you think about what that's like to sort of grow up in and especially grow up in as a bit of an outcast, a little bit of an outsider. I mean, there's a lot of work sort of going on internally within sort of the local Grimsby communities to sort of revive the name, revitalise what it means to be sort of a grim barian and the real sort of passion. I mean, it does. It puts a smile on my face anytime that I can go out there and represent my hometown because we are the underdogs. We are the underdogs of an entire nation, the entire United Kingdom and I think being located in kind of the armpit of England as I like to call it. There's no real room for growth or opportunities. So we kind of have to make our own or scratch and claw and dig our teeth into just get a sniff of an opportunity, you know. I mean, to hear you describe it, I can see a lot of, you know, obviously in a lot of instances with pro wrestling, like the personas that performers have in the ring are very much like, you know, high octane versions of themselves in real life, right? And I know you've gone on record saying that exact same thing about Scotty Rock versus, you know, the person behind Scotty Rock in a way. But to hear you describe Grinsby and the way that you have any kind of the people there, it makes me think like how much of growing up they're really informed who you are and who Scotty Rock is in terms of not just a pro wrestling presentation, but also kind of what you've positioned the persona to kind of represent in terms of like, you know, representing as you put it in your promo last September at TAT, the weirdos, the queers and the freaks of the world, the people that who's, you know, existence creates controversy in a way, right? Yeah, completely. And I think being from that sort of backwards working class town where creative outlets were never a valid career path, right? They were almost kind of frowned upon laughter. It was almost, you know, get a load of this guy, he thinks he's going to be a pro wrestler. And that is just the tip of the iceberg of the things that you have to sort of overcome, especially coming from that sort of very ostracized background, like not only ostracized as in, I didn't really fit in with the local lads that were happy working sort of their shift patterns in the factories and going out and getting bladded on the weekends. The whole stigma around Grimsby was it was this fishing port, this, this dock mainstream sort of party going town where all the dockers and the fishermen would come in and it was known as being the three day millionaire, right? So you'd come in from being away at sea, you'd come into port and sell everything and then all the fishermen would go and just blow whatever they'd made in the pubs doing God knows what with God knows who until God knows when and then jumping back on the boat Monday morning and they're straight back out to sea. So that's what I'm saying. That kind of mentality after it all collapsed never really went away. So it was almost, you stood out if you wanted to be more than what you were born into. And I think over come in that was a huge part of Scotty Rock's journey. Yeah, it was almost like, no, I've worked my ass off to be here and I will be recognized as one of the best in the UK. No matter where I've come from, no matter what my upbringing, no matter what I've had to sort of face head on. And I guess mental health, depression, anxiety, ADHD, all that I've been diagnosed with are just more hurdles and barriers that I've smashed through and sexuality for me was another one of those. It was a very much come to terms with who you are or it's shit or get off the part, right? No, completely, completely. And as someone who literally just took their, both their antidepressants and ADHD meds right before we get on this call, I can relate in a lot of ways and also being a big old queer though. So yeah, I like it. A lot of the same one, separate, separate at the. But I do want to talk about all those things. Throughout your career and then of course, the recently over the last year, two years for you when it comes to, you know, queerness and blending your voice to that has been a huge thing. But here you kind of talk about kind of the attitudes of like the population and Grimsby towards like, you know, people that aren't just looking to like pursue like a nine to five sort of thing. And in this like determination that you had within yourself to really build this career that you have now like before we hit record here, you were telling me like you made it, you're going your full time at this point, which is wrestling, you know, and that's crazy. I mean, I never, I never thought as a sort of 16, 17 year old trainee taking his first bumps that I'd be able to turn around and say 28 years old with, with my whole chest that I am making a full time living off of independent pro wrestling in the UK and Europe. Yeah, that's wild. But to hear like you described that, it kind of reminds me of kind of the story of of Adrian Street, you know, the very famous photo of him with his father outside the coal mine, you know, and just kind of a lot of, I see similar like attitudes and similar determinations between like what you've described for yourself and what Adrian described in his own story. I'm in the past as well. And I don't know like it obviously like the connection there might just be that you brought from the UK and then that's the kind of where it ends obviously. But like, I don't know like it. It speaks to this kind of attitude between the two of y'all. But I don't know if this is maybe a larger like British thing where like those sort of like societal attitudes kind of are there to be broken in some ways. Yeah, I think so. And I think I think very much in the north, I think very much in the north of England where you did see a lot of like work houses, coal mines and that's where sort of the very sort of the earth, you're mucking lad that that sort of working class, um, mentality is still is still very present. And as much as my, my, my mother was like very, very supportive like I was raised by a, by a single mom who was working on a part time wage in one of the poorest areas of the country. She was as supportive as she could be, but I don't think people like me growing up even thought that a creative pursue as a career was a valid option. I think every, I think we were all taught to, to play it safe, uh, to not take the risk and to sort of, you know, get, get the job secured, get the mortgage secured and then you settle down and then you get with a partner and it's definitely, it's definitely a partner that's a woman and then you get married and then you have kids and then you get two dogs and the kids leave and like that, that was just kind of brainwashed into, oh, that was just the, the working class way, I think, um, and anyone that sort of set outside the mold, got criticized, got scrutinized and got sort of mocked for having these different ideologies, having these different dreams. I think that's what it was. I think when you're born in the gutters, you, the dreams kind of get stamped out here. And it takes the real strong ones to hold on. It really does because some, some of us are born for greatness. We really are. And I think we've all got something special inside of us that is to be capitalized on to make the most and make a happy, fulfilling life, whatever that could be, whatever that is in, in your passions. But I mean, I used to, I used to play in bands when I was young and we used to play it like youth centers. We used to play at skate parks. We used to play it. The family bar that was attached to Pleasure Island, which was like a big sort of rollercoaster, um, amusement park theme park. And then the next summer, like we did that for maybe being 13 to 15. And then the next summer, all the funding was stripped out of the youth centers. So all the youth centers shut down. All the skate parks stopped having maintenance worked on them. So no one skated anymore. Everything was all overgrown and trashed. And no one was running events there. The amusement park shut down and has been derelict for years. So there's been no one, no reason to open that family bar. So it's, it really does feel like at times, a town that has, has had almost everything taken off it and been like pointed out to the rest of the countries if to go prove yourself. And I'm the kid that did. Yeah. No, I think that's a, that's a wonderful thing to embody. It feels like, especially knowing your own journey and your own like outside of just like the societal community aspect of like hardship, but your own like internal hardships with your journey through, you know, building up ways to deal with mental health issues, right? And I know you've been very public, you know, out there talking about how, you know, wrestling basically saved your life in a lot of ways and how you struggles with, you know, substances and stuff like that during university and how that kind of pushed you in wrestling helped you really kind of battle those and battle those internal demons for yourself and really give you, like bring you to a place where, you know, you felt comfortable in your own skin in a lot of ways. Like what was it about wrestling specifically that helped push like that sort of like positive influence in you during those times where it was the worst for you? Yeah, I mean, I'm not, I'm no cookie cutter, cut out. I'm not, I'm not perfect. I'm a, I'm a little rough around the edges. Yeah. And I think wrestling for me has always been that, you know, it's, it's not looked at as a sport. It's not recognised in the UK by sports England at least. It's not recognised by the, the performing arts society in the UK, like the British sort of the dramatic society is that sort of fringe, passion, creative project that is only driven by that. And I think having that sort of underlying, underdog narrative of no, I am here and, and I will sort of be heard and body in that from the town I grew up in. I think wrestling was really the driving force that did keep me going through these, these sort of tough times because as I say, I mean, without that community, without the, the sort of bonds that you build through, whether you're training, whether you're going to shows, whether you're wrestling and sharing locker rooms with these people, I mean, we're all striving to be the best versions of ourselves. And as much as we are all there for each other, it is a competitive game, it is a competitive market. So we are trying to sort of one up each other and sort of be better, be the best one that's head and shoulders above the rest of the locker room, like everyone is trying that. And I think when everyone is trying to be that, everyone is on their A game and that's when it really, truly thrives. And I think it was getting that mentality switched on that pulled me through some, yeah, some real dark lows. We've spoke a little bit about Adam. So Adam is my partner. Adam has been my partner for almost a year. two years now, just over 18 months, nearly two years. But before that, he was my best friend. Me and Adam met 12 years ago when we both started training to become professional wrestlers at the Grimsby Wrestling Academy, which is as good as you could expect to training an academy from Grimsby to be, like, let's be fair. I've seen plenty that would fit the similar description here as the state. I understand what you mean. Yeah, I'm 100%. I mean, the sort of school where on your second session, you're taking snap suplexes on the laminate floor and the coach is kind of just their smiling and chukling to himself to put you through your paces, you know? So me and Adam kind of had the same way of coming up through pro wrestling. And it was around the time that I was turning 20 years old. I'd been at university for just over a year. I was living in Liverpool. I was depressed. Like, there's no two ways about it. I was depressed. I was abusing alcohol. I was abusing different substances. And I really just found myself in a hole. And I'd gone through a recent break up of that university love that you go through. That sort of college high school. That love that you go through where it's all, everything's new to you. And you sort of 18, 19. And it's all like you're going out together and like experimenting with alcohol and things like that and falling into bed with each other. So I'd gone through that sort of heartache. And I was in a real bad way. And it was actually a conversation that I had with Adam about gearing up and switching on. And if I wanted to be a pro wrestler, I'd have to basically pull my head out of my ass and set the sights, aim down the barrel and go for it. And that was kind of the conversation that talked me off the ledge. From that moment, that's when I started going and training with that Gibson and James Drake a fighting spirit. That's when I really started taking my professional wrestling career seriously. Like even when I was at home, I was constantly at the NGW training school being coached by Nathan Cruz, by Robbie X, by Matt Myers. I mean, we go over to even a little further on from that. Like I finished you and E, but we were in the middle of COVID. We were in the middle of lockdown. And I was chomping at the bit and sort of pulling my hair out because I didn't have pro wrestling because they had all kind of been taken away from us. And I was on the first drive for the first day that the first training school opened that was two and a half hours away. And I started training in Manchester. So yeah, I think looking over the last 12 years of my life from being sort of 16 to going to university to dealing with brushes with suicide, my spats of depression, anxiety diagnosis, ADHD diagnosis, hi, egg, turmoil, you name it. The two constants that have been there all of them, my mum, have been pro wrestling and Adam. Yeah. I mean, it sounds cliché in some ways when talking about combating mental health struggles and stuff like that. But the first line of defense really does blow down to having a solid support system around you and then building that out into copy mechanisms that you can have for yourself, where you are and those moments where you're by yourself and having outlets like pro wrestling. I think everybody that I've spoken to, whether in pro wrestling or not, that has really come out the other side and been able to better manage those things for themselves. They always point to having that solid support system around them. They point to having an outlet, whether it be artistic, whether it be through music, whether it be through, for myself, through sports and stuff like that. Having something you can throw yourself into. I think having those communities as well that you can integrate with and communicate with really do play such a heavy part in that as well, because a conversation can save a life. A conversation can change your perspective and turn someone's entire headspace mindset around. It happens to me. One stubborn ass I am. It happens to me. It happens to anyone. No, and I think it's reflected. I was looking at the big piece that came out about you in attitude recently over there. And one thing that really stands out from that article, which shout out to June for that article, is great. But is the relationship between you and Adam and how it kind of just naturally evolved over time from someone who looked up to and became friends with and then was there for you to help write the ship in a way. And to be that source of support for you. And then over time, evolving to this point of like, oh, wait, no, I love this dude more than just a friend that have it snowball into that moment less September for you. For you looking back on the past 12 years of knowing and being around Adam and then being with Adam now, how does the evolution of that relationship kind of look to you in hindsight now? I think it's very romantic. I think it's very cinematic. I think it's broke back mountain. If the two car boys didn't go their separate ways and never see each other again, it's broke back mountain without the heartbreak at the end. It's very pro-restlings heated rivalry, you know? But the real answer to that question, the organic evolution was we-- it went from two trainees to almost me being taken under Adam's wing because he was a little bit older than me. And we'd shoot each other sort of gear designs and he'd help me hone in on like merged designs, sort of the way that I should present myself. We bounced ideas for different ring jackets, different storylines. Like it went really from that kind of wrestling, all encompassing friendship to then we'd spend all night talking about philosophy and we'd talk about our views on the universe. We'd talk about our different sort of psychology principles and what really made us who we were at our cause. And we align on a hell of a lot of things. And I think we had that almost stepmother's moment of did we just become best friends? And then it goes a little further and it's like, OK, I'm spending entire Christmas periods with my best friend because his house makes a way. And I'd rather be spending Christmas with Adam to, oh, I've got a plus one to this family event. I'll invite Adam, everyone in my family loves Adam and loves seeing me with Adam and us two hanging out together because we're best friends. You know? I went through the whole get a job, get a mortgage, find a girl, settle down. Because I was in a relationship with my previous partner for almost five years. And we had a house together. We had cats together. I asked it to marry me. We got engaged. And that kind of just came to a natural end. Because we both wanted different things in life and we were both pursuing different happinesses. When I was getting booked to go and wrestle Speedball might Bailey in Poland in front of two and a half thousand people, I'd ask my partner if she wanted to come and she'd say, no, I'd rather be doing this. Don't you want to go with Adam? So I'd be like, well, yeah, I guess. And then it was the promoters booked you a double room. And it's, well, he's my homie. So I don't mind sharing a double bed with Adam. Like it's like Christmas all over again. And then that becomes more frequent. That becomes, I don't want to come with you to see, I don't want to come with you on a wrestling trip to Barcelona. Don't wouldn't they think? that's more UN Adams thing. I don't want to go away for the weekend with you on the road in the UK, like that seems like more of a UN Adam thing. So it was in ways my ex-partner knew before I knew, like we were kind of me and Adam have always just been orbiting each other. And it was only when me and my ex-partner came to that sort of natural amicable end that me and Adam were kind of forced into a caravan together to live with each other because he'd just moved back up north from living in London with his partner. I'd just lost the home that I'd been living in and building for the last five years and we went and lived in a caravan together and that was kind of when we sat with each other and went right. What's all these failings then? Because it's not normal for me to be in a house with a life that I've set up and still be sat there going but I'd rather be with him. And that's when you start asking yourself those questions of well why? Because I'm not going to sit here and judge my own thoughts because thoughts are just innocent. I can't help thoughts that come into my head. So you've kind of got to attack them with a little bit of curiosity. It's like if you're aware of your actions but you're not questioning why you're doing them then you have no understanding as to the reasons behind it. And I think it was when you just start peeling away at the surface, it really is just a story of two silly boys that took it to the road and fell in love. We did. No, it's beautiful the way that you put it. You know, it speaks to kind of what we were talking about earlier in terms of that like, you know, not necessarily in the similar like chip on the shoulder way of like bucking like the trend of like, you know, what societal norms in Grimsey would put on to someone growing up there in terms of like career path, life path, that sort of thing. But it does kind of speak to like, you know, there's a whole lot of stability in like having a fiance, having a partner you've been with for years at the point, having a home that you're paying a mortgage on, right? And having all of that kind of just putting that to the side just let me like, I'm going to give up this kind of stability because it's not where my heart is, right? I believe like, yeah. Because there was something that didn't sit right with me. Like at the end of the day, it's it's only our own heads that hit the pillow at the end of the day when we go to sleep. And you're you're the same as me. You've got, you've got ADHD. Yeah. When you've got those racing thoughts that just won't let you settle and you still you just can't put your finger on what it is, it you start picking away. There you, I think it initially out of frustration. And then the more you reveal the more you sort of open your eyes, I think specifically for me, and I don't know if this is the same for a lot of sort of adult bisexual or pansexual people that that come out in later adulthood. But because being straight or being heteronormative is the the almost default setting that you're brought to believe that Disney wants you to think every princess has their prints and we all live happily ever after. That as a bisexual man, I don't think I looked in the draw. I knew there was something there. I knew there was something there for me from a very young age because I don't think I've ever referred to myself as being a straight man. But I never opened the door. I never looked in the closet because why would I cause myself the hassle? Why would I when I was growing up in the north of England being gay was still the punchline to a lot of gags being being gay was still the punchline to a lot of jokes. It was very it was very little Britain humor. It was very in between as humor. If you've seen the in between as I'm familiar. Not like violently homophobic but there was a lot of homophobic jokes and and punchlines and slurs and things like that that just became as we thought as kids innocently part of our vocabulary. It was funny to say because it was funny on TV but not knowing the damage that that was doing to the people that were actually queer. And I mean I think the way that that resonated with me is I didn't look in the closet. I didn't open the cupboard door. I didn't face down what I knew was there because I didn't want to cause myself the hassle. I was already an outcast kid that didn't fit in that flitted around friend groups and got bullied, got marked. I didn't want another reason for me to not feel normal. So I just hunkered down and played it safe. So to speak it's not until it's staring you in the face. That you left eventually it will. Yeah eventually it will. That you left sort of questioning a lot of your upbringing and a lot of the mindset that you've thought was the way to do things that might not be. Yeah. No I mean I think I think there are some valid points to like like the experiences that you describe and that can be relatable to a lot of people that have come out later in life I think. And it's specific to like by pan and that sort of thing. I think the environment that you're raised in does contribute a lot to that because I can for my own personal experience I grew up in the South here in the States. Which based on how you describe the North and Grimsby. Comparable. In a lot of ways. I always. So any to any sort of American friends or workers that I do speak to regularly. I do describe the North of England very much as like the South or the deep South in the US. Yeah. Yeah exactly. And like I grew up in like the deep South. Like I grew up in like South Georgia. And yeah. So so yeah it was very much a slimmer thing where a lot of that vernacular wasn't like it wasn't like virulent homophobia but in some ways it was more insidious because it was like you know infiltrating the culture in a way that you're not thinking about it that way but you're still expressing it in a fashion that's going to mess with you. And as someone who is you know I think similar from an early age like you're seeing that part of yourself there and not really knowing what it is or what to do with it and especially in the climate that you're existing and you know like you don't necessarily know how to explore it or might not even want to explore it in some ways. You know because like I didn't come out until I was 19 and that is still I think is pretty late in for especially nowadays it's pretty late I feel like you know kids these days are pretty pretty sure themselves much earlier. Yeah. I mean my my little brother my little brother came out towards as a family when he was 13 and I thought yeah the confidence on the boy honestly and he went through like he he does drag but he went through like a full like goth phase as well so he was he was cooler than I was when I was 60. If I had half the balls that this kid has then who knows where I'd have ended up. Well I grew up with a broken home and when I did see my dad my dad was was very much working class engineer worked down on the docks was a was a tug driver and I remember a conversation that we had where something slightly queer was either mentioned or hinted at and the and the response that came was was immediate shutdown and speculation and you know so to get that from from a parent or albeit like you know he's not around in my life for for various reasons but such a young age to have that message driven home to you by someone that is you know the the bringer of life should you should not should love you unconditionally it's it's a hard pill to swallow and a hard hurdle to get over when you are coming from it. with it like that. - I can understand that for sure. I think, especially when it comes to parents in that way because even if it's not directly coming from them 'cause I know for me, my dad's gay also. And so, and he came out much later in life too. He'd been married to my mom for almost 20 years. And whenever they split up, whenever I was like fifth grade, sixth grade, so I was like 10, 11 years old or whatever. And so for, while it wasn't directly like my dad kind of like shutting down like any expression of ideas of queerness for me, I got to see like firsthand how the people around me treated him and what they said about him and how they looked at me because of him. - Because you were the son of a gay dad, yeah. - Exactly, right? - So like it was just one of those things where I was like, okay, maybe like maybe I don't externalize the things that I'm like talking to myself about internally and trying to figure out who I am in some ways. Like it does keep you like that. The people that are around you that don't necessarily know what you are like thinking or going through or coming to terms with about yourself and have those sort of ideas that continue to expel some not knowing the hurt that they cause. Like that really does create the kind of hurdles that a lot of people in our community go through before they find the strength to just put themselves out there in a way that they can stand on. - A pot can only be left on boil for so long, right? And I think that is something that I would like to see a lot more within the wrestling community, within the wider community, within sort of the wider world is just people being a little bit more self-aware in a sense that they understand that everyone has got their own shit going on. And that in itself will breed more patients, more tolerance, more acceptance, because people understand that what is the most important thing to them in the world isn't to the person sat next to them. And for one person sat one side of the bus, it could be Doomsday and for the person sat the other side looking out the window, it's literally the brightest day of the year. I think if we have a little bit more, yeah, self-awareness, it will promote more acceptance, it will promote more patients and it will promote more tolerance. And I think that's all that people need, a little bit more kindness in the world, and through kindness is love. And all you've got to do for any of those things is just listen, it doesn't cost anything, it's just time and listening. And most people out there have got two good ears. - Yeah, and you only need one, honestly. But if you got one to spare, go for it. But yeah, I gotta know, it's, I'm curious to ask, like, in your mind and your experience over time, like where we're at now in terms of like those locker room spaces, the spaces that pro-wrestling creates, do you feel like those kind of issues have gotten better over time? - I think so. I think there's still a selection of locker rooms that do hold some views and ideologies that aren't best shared. But as far as I'm concerned, they keep themselves to themselves. You keep your opinions to yourself. I'll keep my opinions to mine. Whether to do a job, whether to be professional, or not there to break bread and invite each other to our weddings. I think trust and professionalism always, always comes first. But I do think these locker rooms are getting better. I do, I really do. I think the more open locker rooms that we see, the more queer talent that you see on a card, the more diverse cards that you see, whether it's colors, creeds, religions, races, sexuality, ethnicities, genders, then the more vibrant the wrestling community can be. And I think that's beautiful. Plus, I mean, a lot of the old school locker rooms that were sort of quite set in their ways and at points very, I guess, they could have been homophobic and racist and not accepting quite a prejudice place to be and quite intimidating place to go and work. A lot of them were run rugby clubs anyway. And we all know how the rugby boys get down when they're on tour. I mean, I'm a bisexual boy in the world, but there's some pretty gay shit that goes on those tours, man. And someone who comes from an all comes from internal, I people just not being happy with themselves and not being as close as out there. As someone who has friends with multiple people on a gay rugby team out here in Portland. Out of, yeah. Yep. The scrums don't just happen on the pitch. Let's just say, anyway, even the shells. I know. But no, that's definitely something that we've been noticing here in the States. And obviously, it's no, for a nation as big as where I live, much less as, you know, as big as as England, you know, there's always pockets, right? Where the speed of which the culture evolution doesn't really match other areas. And that sort of thing. So it's, you know, it's, it's a very general question, I think, but it is something that just continually gets, gets built and finally eventually, I think all areas start to kind of get the message in some ways. And I think a big thing that helps with that for sure and something I've really enjoyed noticing about the British Indies scene now is the growth of promotions with queer leadership behind them too, you know, because for the longest time, the only, like, I've been covering, pro wrestling professionally for almost, fuck, almost nine years now at this point. And wherever I first started, the only promotion that I was aware of for years over in the UK that had queer leadership was full force because of Joey Scott, right? But then over the years, like we see, you know, I find out, you know, more about you and Adam and BWR being there. You have like companies like Wrestling with Pride pop up recent, like in recent years, companies like Venom pop up in recent years. Like we're seeing more promotions over there with queer people at the helm. And I think the more that you have people from a marginalized population, the more that approach to diversity, intersectional diversity in terms of like who you are including and who you are promoting and who you are building out stories for is a really important thing to see develop as well. Like is that's something that with BWR has been on, like, years and Adams mind as you know, because that yellow approaching the nine year anniversary coming up on July 18th, right? Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest with you. That's the first time that it's been put to me or put in a way for me to digest the, I guess, yeah, BWR is a queer, headed wrestling promotion. It's regarded as one of the best products in the country. We have incredible setups. We've been selling out consistently for nine years and that goes from when we were running rugby clubs with a capacity of 80 people to our sort of British wrestling home ground, which is the the Kleathorx Memorial Hall that we sell out at regularly with 250 to squeeze in 1,000 people in the auditorium. And I mean, the plan is not to stop there. We put a lot of passion into our promotion. We put a lot of passion into our product and we embody a lot of passion in our performers. BWR stands for British wrestling revolution. And I truly think that, yeah, now it seems that it really is queredded we are on the on the course of what could be a bit of a revolution in the British scene because we're not just stopping in the small working Clash Fisherman's town of Grimsby, we're moving on to bigger and better things. This year me and Adam are launching our second brand of BWR in the south of England, just outside of London. Where we're gonna be running as many shows as we run up in the north and our plan is to branch out from there. We want to take some big cities and take the revolution on the road, truly grow and bring our message with us. And that is, I guess, dream big, follow through. Don't let the bastards get you down because there's plenty that we'll try. If you truly hold on, persevere, take everything you've tried and you'll get there. - Yeah. - And that's all it can be one step at a time. And I think a great space for queer creative outlets within the wrestling place, within the wrestling industry and scene, as you've mentioned, you've just mentioned a couple wrestling with pride, British wrestling revolution, as TNT, that they collaborate with Effie every year when Effie comes to the UK and we do Effie's big gay brunch, which was amazing for me to be a huge part of last year, winning the rainbow rumble and being able to openly come out after kind of a year of figuring out myself and being like, this is me, what's an all, hoping that real recognises real and authentic authenticity you can shine through. I've actually got my debut next week, which will be, I think, Friday, the fourth or fifth of June. - Oh, yeah, June fifth with this club, right? - It's fifth club. So, fifth club is a very cool queer lead cabaret wrestling show and they're holding that at the Clapham Grand Theatre, which is renowned as such an iconic venue in London. And I believe iconic for being quite a queer venue for performers and places to run, which you'd work in. I'm really, really looking forward to working with fifth club next week that's gonna be Ace. - No, I'm excited for you too. I'm remiss that I didn't mention fifth club in that initial list that I put out there. 'Cause fifth club is one of the most fun promotions, queer lead promotions out there, just doing something completely different with their interpretation of pro wrestling and how they implement queer culture into it. It's a really fun promotion there as well. I'm excited for you to get the chance to work there too. And I do want to come back and talk to you about the moment at Big Game brunch last year since you brought it up and I think that's a might be a good place to end on. But before we get there, you talk about launching this like BWR South brand for lack of a better term. And you've been in London now for, what, like, - Nearly six months. - Nearly six months. - How much has been being around the London indie scene? And because I know obviously you have fifth club, but you also have other promotions that feature a lot of, like queer talent, like hustle is a big one. And I know you have connections to hustle as well. You know, they're running a pride show this year. They're doing big things there with people like Cassius and Tony Harlow and Alexander Lockhart. Like these burgeoning, if not, you know, in the case of Cassius, someone, a queer name that's been around for years at this point has really built a solid brand for himself there. Like how much of being around that London indie scene more acutely in the last six months has really kind of influenced that decision to bring BWR down south or how has it influenced any different ways you want to approach bringing BWR down south versus what you all have been doing up in grocery for the last nine years? - I mean, this was the whole reason for me moving to London. This was the whole reason for me moving to the Capitol. It was to be where my people are, whether that's in an alternative lifestyle way, a queer community way or where the best pro wrestling is happening. So yeah, I'm training with hustle and the community that hustle brings is honestly phenomenal. Like it's so encouraging, so supporting from all colors, creeds and sexual orientations. It's very much a everyone welcome vibe. And I think there's a lot of training schools that need to adopt that a little more, adopt that sort of mindset, that hospitality, I guess. But working regularly in London and well as well for promotions that do have queer talent on the cards and sort of make a spectacle and put the voice of the voiceless forward. Our place is like United that run in Red Inn and Oxford, just outside. Hustle you've mentioned are running a pride show in heaven at the end of June, which it looks like it's going to be an absolutely stellar event. It looks incredible. I actually got to you mentioned Tony Harlow. I got to go and wrestle at a launch party for the make up 'cause Metac brand Urban Decay, only a few nights ago. So that was a collaboration we didn't know we needed. But I got to wrestle Tony Harlow on that show at this launch party in front of makeup influences and cosmetics, streamers, drag queens, sort of the head of Urban Decay, like it was truly wicked. And again, bringing wrestling to an audience that aren't a wrestling audience, but are heavily queer. I think just opens people's eyes to what's really out there and what wrestling really can be and it can be for everyone. That's the beauty of it. It's so subjective. It doesn't have to be this hyper masculine space that it once was. And I think the more and more we move to a diverse work in place, the happier and healthier we can all be both going to shows, watching shows, and coming away from shows. Yeah, no. I'm all for obviously the athlete to wrestler pipeline is always going to be a strong one. But the more we can bolster the theater kid to wrestler pipeline and the musician to wrestler pipeline, like those things that bring that different approach to performance in some ways. And then of course, brushing that out to directly queer community, like drag and ballroom and the influences of those things into pro wrestling as well. Like it's special. I was a guitarist that did martial arts and loved pro wrestling, but took it too far. And now it's my fourth time job. I love that characterization for sure, especially the taking it too far. (laughing) Well, Scotty, as we kind of wind down here, I do want to talk to you about that moment last September. Because like I said, at the very beginning here, we're only a few months away from the one year anniversary of that promo that you cut after winning the Rainbow Rumble. I even hesitate to call it a promo because like it was just you just kind of the near down in a lot of ways, sharing this very, very intimate information about yourself publicly for the first time. Obviously you kind of already, I guess, come to terms with like who you were or like better, had a better understanding, right? That's the better terminology. Come to terms on so negative. You had a better understanding of who you were. You know, you and Adam have been together for a while before that happened. But then this moment came where it's like, okay, I'm going to share this publicly for the first time. What in your mind made Big A branch UK the spot for that and like how, talking about your emotions and your feelings around that day and heading into the promo? It felt a little bit like a full circle moment, really. Liverpool has always struck a strange chord with me because it is where I went to uni. It is where I was kind of out in my little dinghy on my little life raft, fending for myself for the first time. It is where I felt heartbreak. It is where I faced a lot of my demons. And it's a place that I tried to take my own life. So it felt very fitting that coming out of COVID, J-Aptor and TNT in Liverpool were one of the first companies to take a punt on me. Like they were the first sort of company to gamble on me. And they were the first place that I won my first single's championship. I was the TNT Ultra X champion coming out of COVID. And that was always something very special to me. So when I was talking about going public and speaking to Adam about like, how we sort of go about it, it was actually a phone call that I had with Jay. And Jay was one of the first people within the wrestling scene that I spoke to about it, that I disclosed that me and Adam were an item. And it was my first relationship with a man. And I'd spent a long time sort of coming to terms with it myself and all the rest of it. And right then and there on the spot, he said that he'd love to have me involved with F.E.'s big gay brunch when F.E. came to the UK in September. And so yeah, it really felt like a real full circle moment. I've always loved F.E. as a worker. as a character, as a wrestler, in ring and online. I think he is very, very good for representation, especially for lads like me that don't see themselves in what is displayed as gay in the media or at least what was displayed as gay in the media growing up. I think F.E. is cool as shit, man. I really do. And I think him and Ali catch are two of the most iconic baddies in the U.S. today. I would love to wrestle them. I would love to go out for dinner with them. I would love to go for a drink with them. So yeah, having that moment where like me and F.E. could sort of sit down, bond, and develop a not only a working relationship but a personal relationship. For me, it was a real cool moment. He's still someone that I stay in touch with from time to time and we shoot each other a message every now and then. And he's one of the people that I'll be talking to about coming over to the states this year. But when I turned up to the show and Jay App to give me a big hug told me what was happening that night told me how we wanted it all to go down. It was almost just a case of this big scousel bloke handing me a microphone and just going, speak from the art lad, nod you me and on I went and that was it. I resonated with every single person in that room. I think there wasn't a pair of lips that left that building without Scotty Rock on them. Now I can definitely see that for sure. Seeing the crowd response to the moment and just the response online to the moment, it felt like I can imagine that while there might have been some nerves potentially or some anxiety around doing that, I can imagine there's a weight lifted as soon as you're able to put that out into the public as well. Yeah, I think it's very much called a plaster off, all the bandaid off. It is anxiety inducing to be vulnerable but I think with vulnerability comes power. Yeah, with vulnerability comes knowledge, with vulnerability comes connection and what is any wrestler trying to do is connect with a crowd, connect with an audience. And I've just managed to do that by channeling myself, putting myself out there because at the end of the day, as black and white as it is, anyone can lace up a pair of boots, anyone can throw on a pair of trunks. The gimmick is not the fact that I'm a punk rock character. I'm not Scotty Rock with the Mohawk coming out to the sex pistols because that's what everyone sees as the depiction of what punk rock is. I'm punk rock because I'm true to who I am. I'm punk rock because I go out there and I show people all of me, even the ugly bits and I go, yeah, that's it. That's me. What's in all? Love me, hate me, make sure you buy a T-shirt. And the beautiful thing about that is that we all have those words, right? We all have those things, and even if we don't want to. And anyone that tells you that they don't, anyone that tells you that they don't is a liar. Yeah. Yeah. And the more honesty we can have about those sort of things, the more relatable, the more human we become. I think that's the key thing. It's just like, how can we be more human to one another? Yeah. I think in a world that is overrun with artificial intelligence, with propaganda, with falsities, with brand deals, with advertising, with things that aren't real and don't matter, the one thing that we can try and restore is humanity. If we can restore a little bit of humanity to a point or a place or a people that seem to lack it, fuck me, you've got it cracked. That's power. Yeah. It really is. I'll throw one more on that list that you just gave. The people out there grifting on homophobia and transphobia, simply for fucking capitalistic gains. 100%. Yeah. And the ones that are hiding behind fake profiles and fucking, you know, the cartoon display pictures and it's not a real person behind them on it, fuck you. That is the perfect button on this conversation. I feel like Scotty. Thank you so much for taking the time today. This has been an absolute treat. Thank you, Brian. Honestly, it's been an absolute pleasure. What a lovely conversation to have. No, same, same. Let everybody know where they can find you online and what you have coming up. Yeah. You can find me on socials, on all the good ones and the bad ones at Scotty Rock. So that's the S-C-O-D-T-Y-R-A-W-K. You can find me at Upcoming Shows. I am in London next Friday. I am in Oxford next Sunday. I'm here there and everywhere, but I will always be posting about the shows that I've got up come in and my tour schedule that is coming up. So please, if you want to catch me at any of your local shows, any of your local merch tables, follow me online and you'll see where the dogs are. Awesome. Thank you again, Scotty. Thank you, my mom. Thank you. My thanks once again, Scotty, for taking the time to sit down and chat with me all about his experiences and what the last year has been like in that years-long process of kind of realizing, oh wait, no, I'm in love with this dude. His and Adam's story just warms my heart every time I think about it and I'm glad that this show can play a small part in kind of telling that story as it continues to be written for sure. So yeah, I'm excited there. And excited to see what Scotty does. I hope that American debut does come sooner rather than later because Scotty is extremely talented. And I think American audiences would really dig him for sure. That's going to do it for us this week. Come back next week. We'll have two more episodes for y'all as we keep doing our double dose during Pride Month here on the show. Before we go, we do have to talk about Patreon real quick. patreon.com/LGBTringbot is where you can go if you want to financially support this show. We have multiple tiers at which you can do so with the $1 tier which is basically just like a tip jar, a tip bucket for us, thing in us for what we do here on the show. At the $3 tier, you join the official roster of Lovelies and have your name shout out on every episode of this show as a signifier of your support alongside the lights of Val Simons, Val Capone, Lily E and Cherry Legend. And of course at the $5 here you unlock the entire library. of all of our bonus content on the Patreon, the entire archive of required reading, the show or myself and my good friend Hollis, we put pro wrestling and film into semantic conversation with one another. We are finally back. We are doing the first new episode and half a year, maybe an over that at this point, for June and we're hopefully going to get back onto the regular monthly cadence with that show as well. There's been some personal stuff going on in myself and Hollis' life that's kind of prevented us from being able to record that show. I won't speak for Hollis, I'll let Hollis speak for himself about stuff that's been going on, how much you want to divulge, but regardless, it's been an arduous process to get it back to where we can record that show again and we are finally at that point, at least for Pride Month and hopefully beyond as well. So beyond the lookout for that drop here in June and also if you want to listen to that show in June, ever it drops and catch up on all the episodes that we have done so far, which I am very proud of all of them. Definitely go over support of the $5 tier at patreon.com/LGBTRingPod. Of course, we also understand the financial support is not feasible for everyone. I've been there, I get it. They're putting it free ways that you can support the show as well if you want to do so. Of course, telling the people in your lives about the show, Word of Mouth does wonders for awareness of this show and you know, I can't thank y'all enough for all of the the Word of Mouth that y'all have given the show over the years for sure. You can follow us on all of our socials at Wonder Hoyotium or my personal socials on Twitter, Blue Sky Instagram and you can follow the show at LGBT RingPod on Twitter, Instagram, Blue Sky and Facebook. And of course, rating and reviewing on your podcast platform of choice that helps a ton with visibility for sure as we keep rolling along here with this show. I don't know, it's just amazing to still be on this journey with all of y'all and I'm still excited every single time to sit down and share it with you and bring y'all interesting perspectives on progressing that your, you know, the greater wrestling media space is not really providing. That's the thing I'm I think I'm most proud of with this show and again do it without all of y'all subordinate. So thank you. All right, enough's to be. That's all we got for this week. Come back next week. Until then, y'all stay messy. Wash your hands, wear your mask, get vaccinated, boost it if at all possible. Same goes for impacts. As always, fuck ice, no kings, free Palestine and welcome to the family, Corinne Joy and Divina. [Music]