"Leveraging technology for customer engagement" - with Matt Young

(upbeat music) - All right, everybody, welcome back to the Grow Your Moving Company podcast. Today's guest is Matt Young. Matt is the owner CEO, founder of EyeHall Eye Move, as well as movingletters.ai, based out in Colorado. And he's been in the business for 18 years and seeing some record growth this year. February and March, both up 65%. You can say that our March is crushing it and we're having the best March. I hope that you guys all are out too, but I think 2026 is off to a great start. We've been seeing a lot of good trends over the last really six months. You know, we've been, had several record months. We've had several number two months and the only other best month might have been during the peak zero percent interest times of COVID. And so I think that's all a very good sign for everybody, but enough about that. Let's get into it with Matt. Matt, tell me a little bit in your own words. You know, what you got going on with your different companies, EyeHall Eye Move, Matti Mailers, how'd you get into this business? You've been doing it for 18 years, so you're a veteran in the industry. What can you tell me? What's the story? - For sure, man. So yeah, so thanks so much for having me on their way. It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, so I actually started this moving company right at the height of the recession back in 2008 here in Calder Springs. And my brother had a partner, and he also had a moving company. And they kind of had that bad nasty split. And I was able to kind of jump in on one of his little thrifty nickel advertisements and the little paper. And I said, hey, this could be a good opportunity for me. Before that, I had never really had a real job. I was doing furniture deliveries from my dad's furniture store and things like that. So it was kind of scary, obviously going out on our own and things like that. But so I spent about seven years on the truck. You know, fast forward, that was a lot of time there. But seven years on the truck, dude, just running things myself doing all of it. And those were some massive headaches. I don't know why I did that. But, you know, and up until recently building defining relationships have really helped me scale the business, you know, between the Lewis-Massarro stuff and, you know, all of the other things. Your events, all of that has really helped to help my business grow recently. So yeah, that's kind of like a quick short end of the version of it. Yeah, no, I had a very similar story, you know, but basically five years on an off the truck, probably the first three were the most heavily involved in the beginning. And then, you know, Lewis-Massarro kind of turned the lights on. And it was, it was like, gave me finally, like the answer I was looking for, the road map, getting in the room, not only Lewis, I mean, Lewis gave me, gave me a ton of amazing information, but getting in the room with some awesome moving companies from all over the country that were in the same position as I was or they had been in the same position as I was and allowed me to seek out mentorship. What would you say was kind of like the turning point to getting off the truck from, you know, that seven-year mark? For sure, for sure. I was back then while I was still on the truck, I was in a networking group and this guy, you know, you know, he's pretty high level in our community. I think he owned a garage door business and he looked at me and he said, Matt, your business is never gonna grow until you jump off that truck, dude. And I said, yeah, and I was scared because I was scared of the quality. I was scared to take the risk, right? I was like, man, what is this moving company without me, right? And I think that's, we get stuck in our heads sometimes in there, but, and of course, also having a kiddo, right? Once you go jump and you have a kiddo, like that kind of changes the life and that opens up your eyes a little bit more with time with like, hey, I don't have time to just go be 12 hours a day on the truck anymore. And of course, also trying to run sales and things. It just wasn't scalable. So sometimes I say, you know, even though I'm 18 years, I'm a veteran in the industry. I think the reality is that I'm still a pretty new business. I'm probably only 11 years in considering that I wasted like seven years just dogging it out on the truck, you know? Good days don't get me wrong, but, you know, obviously. Well, life was simpler back on the truck. Sometimes I wish I could trade places with the movers because it was just a lot less going on with how many different people are involved with delegating things to and, you know, everything that goes into it. But it's the only way to grow, you know, you're limited. You're only getting paid for your time, you're getting paid for your labor. And you can only do so much with your time and your, you know, of strength when you're out there doing it yourself. And that goes for any business. You know, if you've read Red Ridge, Chad Portad, they talk about the employees, the technician or the owner operator that, you know, doctors, dentists, lawyers, a lot of times are those people, even though they make a lot of money for their time, they're still limited in the scalability of it. And then you've got your business owners and your investors. And it's really important to get into that, that business owner investor quadrant if you're trying to do big things. And not the wrong if you want to stay small and you enjoy doing what you do and you're making enough to be happy and support your family. But I know probably you are the same as me. You got big dreams and you want to, you want to build an empire. So yeah, that's exactly right. So since you've been off the trucks, what have you, what have you found have been kind of the catalysts to allowing you to answer this season of growth aside from being more, you know, delegating? - For sure, I think there's a lot of things, right? Like obviously being able to network once again, with these movers and seeing everything that they're doing, that's just yet the mentorship, right? Number one, that's going to be the biggest thing and finding friends in this industry that you can, I know you always say this, your network is, what is it, your network is your network, right? And so totally a little bit of that, but I would say within that last, you know, recent time, some of the shifts that we've done is focused on relationship building within our community, more events, you know, finding ways to, you know, reach out to realitters in a creative way to inspire more relationships. So that one has been very helpful for us. I did hire pretty much a full time business development rep as well that goes out in our community, you know, obviously goes to the apartment complexes, brings the donuts, brings the cookies. And we stay in front of that. We're very, you know, in front of that. And we also use a little bit of snowball to help kind of cultivate some of those relationships. And so I would say that was some of this shift. Of course, you know, I'm not sure what else we've done differently to help with the growth, but I think it could just be a little with that market shift, you know, the seasonality of like where we're at right now. And people just getting used to the interest rates and things like that that, you know, like, hey, might as well move now, right? It's not going to get much better. And so it is really, it's like really enlightening to see. So yeah, it's just like up to recently, that's been some of the big portions of my growth. And yeah, delegating, dude, getting some VA is getting some people who can help you buy back your time and yet figuring out like trusting your people more, you know, that's been a big thing. So yeah, no doubt. Tell me a little bit about your market. You said Colorado Springs, right? I know it was Colorado Springs. Okay, yeah, how big is that market? What's the competition like over there? For sure. So right now, I think we probably have 700,000 in surrounding. I'm not exactly sure it's somewhere around that number as far as population goes. A very military-centric, you know, community. So we have no or add up in the mountain. You may see those, you know, from the movies and stuff like that. We also have, you know, another army base right down here, a couple space force bases and the Air Force Academy. So a lot going on here as far as the military, as far as competition goes, I mean, our biggest competitor in our market is going to be like our two men in a truck. And I think they might have 25, 30 trucks. They're probably one of the biggest in the franchise network I would imagine or at least somewhere about from what I know. So they're definitely a force to be reckoned with. They're pretty monster. And then from there, I would say, you know, we have, you know, you're all my son's guys and then from there, like just a lot of our smaller niche guys about my size as well. And I feel like that's kind of where it trickles to. And then, yeah, obviously you have your big nation-wide companies that are around too, but as far as like the market goes, you know, we're seeing like I said, just a big up shift on, you know, the type of clients we're getting to come to our circles. And, you know, we're trying to kind of separate ourselves by trying to be a little bit more of the higher end mover, right? Like, and not just taking every job just to take it. So that's kind of been our kind of shift as well. Yeah, I figured out your avatar, your ideal client is really important. When I first started, I thought it was college kids. And I didn't think I wanted to go service big moves, like, you know, a regular moving company would do. And quickly realized that was not a sustainable business model. We kept the name, you know, takes us back to our humble beginnings. But, yeah, I mean, figuring that out, I think a lot of movers don't even realize who their ideal client is. And I talk a lot in my book about just dialing that into like, you know, who exactly is this person? Is it the 45 year old mother of three that goes to Starbucks every morning? What does she read? What does she listen to? What does she watch on TV? Does she even watch TV? You know, where does she live? Do they own their house? Do they rent their house? Is she married? I mean, there's so many different dynamics. And as you start to pick apart those dynamics, you can start to target marketing and getting in front of those areas. And if you know that, you know, this person likely plays pickleball, you know, goes sponsor a pickleball court somewhere or get involved in that community. And that's something that we've been doing over the course of the last several months. Because I'm a big pickleball guy and a new country club for pickleball just opened up. And we sponsored a court and did a lot of cross promotional. We've got a two two year cross promotional deal with them. So super excited about that. And I feel like that really resonates with the clientele that we're looking to go after. But you know, may it be different for you? Maybe something with your market. You know, getting involved in things that your passionate about is, in my opinion, one of the best ways to network because it's, you don't even have to think about it. You just go do what you want to do and you're around other people doing what they want to do and you can naturally build those relationships. But you mentioned that you have somebody in your company that does a lot of business development now and that's been a big turning point towards your growth. What do you have them doing? Yeah, so right now, they're, you know, the big thing that that person does is we research new partners every week and so whether that's restoration companies, it's realitters to go stop by finding ways to introduce ourselves to some of those other niche ones, whether it's stages, designers, things of that nature. And so we are trying to make that, you know, shift a bit of like, hey, we've been so, you know, was like, reliant on residential moving, specifically here, local moving that, how can we break through a little bit more commercially? And some of our B and I, you know, we also have a B and I chapter that were involved in that has, I mean, honestly, he's been a game changer. It's one of the biggest ones, I think, in the state. And so that was fantastic as well. So yes, that person specifically is out there just out to build relationships. Be everybody's friend, bring off cookies, you know, and we find that, you know, there's some people that refer us, there's some people that can't because of corporate things of that nature. But we also reward those people to, like I said, using the little bit of that snowball platform to make sure that they're getting paid out as a part of our affiliate program. Because I think like movers, you know, I've done an affiliate program. I don't know how many times we all have wanted to. And it just always fell apart. It always felt part because I could never remember to pay them or send a gift card. It's not because I was trying to be a jerk or it's not because I didn't intend to. It's just because like, you know, obviously it happens. It's hard to keep track of, especially in the day to day. And so now having someone who can help us, you know, automate that process has really, helped us to make sure that they get rewarded. And so when they get $100 every referral or 75, it just encourages the stack of like, hey, not, well, at least I'm getting paid every time I do this. So that's been something too is making sure we're incentivizing them with something. And I think our pitch is like, hey, what would you do with an extra 300 or 400 a month? And I mean, they're running into people all day that are moving, whether it's a, you know, retirement community, things of that nature. So just getting out there in a creative way. And that person spends about three days a week doing this. We also do box drops to some homes that realtors request us to do as well. So it's kind of a mixture of like everything. And then the other two days is research and some phone sales as well for backup days. Of course, Mondays are busiest days. And I'm sure like you as well in the movie industry. And so she does help stay on the phones on Monday too. And kind of keeps her a little on the sales mindset too. Yeah, yeah, box drops are great with a great in with realtors because a lot of times it's tough for a mover to find value or to give a realtor value. You come later in the process and you know, realtors, you know, at the end of the day, usually I'll, I'll want referrals. And if you can't give them referrals because you're coming in after the fact and you have a bunch of realtors, you can't give them all referrals if you know somebody who needs a realtor, you know, what else can you do to, to get their attention? And a lot of realtors are real hesitant about taking a kick back. Snowballs awesome. We use that. And I mean, it just automates it. So even if they say they don't want the kick back or they don't want the little bonus, they don't turn it away either. They're not going to give it back to you. And usually, you know, there's a lot of gray areas. Different states might be different. I know in Florida, you cannot compensate only a broker can compensate the realtor as it relates to the transaction. But moving comes after the transaction. So a lot of new realtors don't quite understand that. And they're just hesitant. They're afraid to step on toes. And then a lot of the more established realtors are, you know, they just want to protect the reputation and make sure that, you know, that their clients are getting taken care of. So, you know, that's where it really, you know, that trust building thing comes into play. But finding ways like giving them boxes is a really good way to get your foot in the door with them. And if you guys have brand and boxes, anybody who's listening to this, go drop the, go drop off a stack at brokerage offices. And, you know, even if they stick them in the back cause that ideally they're out displayed in front of, you know, for them to come and grab. But have them ask them, you know, do a presentation, tell them they can take them with them any time to listing appointments. And they can leave behind some boxes with their clients when they have a listing appointment. Because that helps them win that job. When you're giving them some kind of value to then give to their prospective client, they can win that client over by the law of reciprocity. Great. If you love you, they'll probably send you some referrals and then your box, your brand of box is sitting right there in that customer's home for when they're ready to call the movers and you're going to be the first person that they think of. So that's something that we do a lot to. We'll give realtors typically 20 free boxes a piece if they want to individually or we'll drop, you know, we'll leave a bunch behind at a brokerage when we do a presentation. But I think that's a pretty good strategy there. 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Have you come up with any specific strategies that you found that you've been not getting some gold? Yeah, I mean, obviously we do call the email to a lot of realtors and what I've found is that it takes about a fourth touch point to get most of them to consider or respond. If you hit on one time and you're like, "Hey, I'm a mover. I can help your clients." You're coming off a certain way. They're going to be turned off. You have to be selfless in your approach and I think you had mentioned this very well that you have to provide up from value. I'll tell you this right now, realtors love free. You know what I mean? Anything you can do to provide that, whether it's some type of gift card, whether it's something for their client to get a value, we also do branded seller prep guides. Hey, give this to your seller. This will help them in the process of getting their home ready to be sold. Things of that nature. We also do landing pages for a lot of our realtors that if they're requesting us to go maybe do a box drop or maybe it's the first time, we'll build a landing page on the site. We share that with them and their clients can get an exclusive discount. The cool thing about that landing page is typically when you're searching that realtors name, we're popping up organically usually on the first page. So my hope is that if anyone is searching to hire that realtor and they're looking at their reviews and they type that into Google, which I've done, we're about usually 6, 7, down on organic and my hope is that it says right in the title, hey, this realtor's clients get 10% and $100 off their move and click here and obviously they click there and they'll land on their landing page with some more specific information about that realtor. So we do that for them too. It's probably a valuable backlink for them. I'm not sure if it's completely valuable for us, but it has been nice to show it to them that like, hey, we're out there to help support them in some type of way. So yeah, I think you've nailed it where it's like value value value, how do you provide it? And I think that's always something we're continuously trying to solve and be creative with for sure. Yeah. And if you've got pages that rank well for very like specific neighborhoods or suburbs or parts of your community that that a realtor covers or that farms, you know, maybe they farm a specific neighborhood, we've got several blog posts through our SEO. That rank for like best schools in South Tampa or, you know, Apollo Beach, Florida or whatever. And don't quote me if you go search that. Maybe it doesn't show up now. Those I haven't looked at the updated list, but I know we've got like 300 keywords similar to that that we rank number one or number in the top three four. But what you can do is you can, when you're having these meetings with realtor's, talk about them on that page and even put one of their lead forms on that page because a lot of people are researching an area that they're thinking about moving to. Maybe they're going to look at Tampa versus St. Peter. Maybe they're going to look at Colorado Springs versus Denver. And if you rank for Colorado Springs versus Denver, then find a realtor in Colorado Springs that maybe they also cover Denver or whatever, one or the other, maybe both. And you can set up a backlink to them. You can set up a quote form that drips to them. And if they get any leads out of that, then now all of a sudden you are providing them some referrals. And do this with all the different pages that rank well for those certain specific areas that people might be researching. And if anything, it's a really good way to just get your foot in the door with them. And you can do, even if they don't get any leads, at least you're making that effort to try to send them some business. So a little pro tip there that has helped me get in front and have a lot of meetings with specific realtors that I've been trying to meet. But talk a little bit about how you make up those landing pages. I mean, it sounds like you're working with AI. You're doing some pretty cool stuff there. If you're willing to, I don't know if it's something that you want to share. Let's give the good sauce here, man. We want to make this a good episode. episode, right? So yeah, I mean, specifically, we'll talk about that, you know, up to recently, I had a website for like the last few years, and it was okay. It was buggy. It was WordPress. It was starting to get slow. And one of the things, you know, in my research is that page speed is very important, especially in the eyes of Google. And so if you're, you know, your website isn't loading, mobile, you know, friendly and all of that, you're not going to rank well either. And so I said, Hey, you know, I'm deep in the, I'm deep in the thick of it. And I said, like, I need a new website. How can I do this? And so I researched all of the, you know, different moving companies across the country that websites are great and that I look up to. And I tried to find ways to like, you know, build this. And so through AI, and I, I'll just be honest, I use cloud code and I built this website on an Astro framework, which is a JavaScript framework. And it's a little technical, but it's a very fast framework. And so I built it on this and I read it our website. I probably spent 50 to 60 hours of my own time doing this because I was sick of going on, on fiber and hiring people. And I felt like I had the technical chops to finally do this. And since we've launched that website, our lead form, our lead form requests per week have increased 4x from when it was on the prior website. So that has been huge for us. So just because my time is worth a lot, right? My time investment to do it, I think is still going to be, you know, a 10X return probably over the next, you know, year. And so I would say that was a big shift. Now for when you said, if you have your service pages and you're thinking of your communities and maybe you're not ranking well in your area for like Colorado Springs Movers, right now if you search that, I'm probably 20 at the probably in the second, maybe page, maybe even third. And I hate to say that. But if you search the nicest community in our area and you type in broadmore Movers, Colorado or broadmore moving company, I pretty sure were like one or two on the organic list. And so now we're ranking so much better for the most long tail keywords that we never did before. And so I'm like, Hey, we'll dominate those all day. If we don't get the main one, I mean, yeah, that's where we all want to be, but that's okay. And I think that has really helped attribute plus the high in nature of the website. I think it just has a different look and feel than it ever has something else I did way that was really unique is, and I'm trying to track this is I've done three different, you know, when they land to our page three different quote forms. And so I start off first by asking, what day are you moving? And that's lead form one. Lead form two is where are you moving? And then the leads the C is first name last name. And the reason why I'm do this is I want to ABC test. What is the highest conversion when they get to your page? What puts the most guard down for them to fill out your lead form? And so this is a goal that I have to. That's interesting. So are all three of those forms? Are they all displayed at the same time? Or do you rotate them in and out? Yeah, they they automatically rotate per click. And so it kind of goes, you know, random every time. And if if they fill it out, I believe we have an smart moving to put it in the notes form or something of that nature to say ABC. I'll be honest with you. I implemented it post tracking of it. And obviously it's only been about like a month and a half since we launched this new site hasn't been great. So I can't say for sure that I haven't dug into the numbers. I probably should have built a better tracker for it. But that was at least my intentions. God sure. No, that's really interesting. I haven't really thought about that. I know that I've always been under the philosophy of less is more when it comes to quote forms because every field that they have to enter some kind of information additional that isn't necessarily, you know, necessarily needed is it's a friction point. And there's statistics that will show even if it's a few percentage points that fewer people will bounce before they hit submit, you know, the more information for every question that you ask them. So we try to keep it as simple as possible having multiple locations. It's a little tricky because we do need to know where they're coming into. But, but you know, we try to still keep it as simple as possible. We want to just get that basic contact information. We want to make it very easy to find above the fold on a phone. It'll just scroll up and down with you, you know, basically every part of the page so that nobody has to go looking for how to get in touch with you. You know, they can either call you right away by clicking the phone number or they can see that form very clearly because really the two biggest purposes of having a website are to build trust and get leads. And you kind of need to build the trust in order to get the lead most of the time. But you also want to make it that path of least resistance with as little friction as possible. But I haven't really thought about that by having different priority rankings. So let me know how that goes once you get some more data because I am curious to see where that where that leads to. But what about AI? I, I, how are you implementing AI into your business? You're a pretty tech savvy guy. We were talking shop on our podcast equipment here before we jumped on and yeah, yeah, yeah, started to lead to some AI. I said, wait, no, we got to say that for the podcast. For sure. So I'll get into it. So, you know, I've been heavily into it, you know, since the chat GPT days. I know this sounds like I'm too in my own horn, but I was one of the first people to introduce Lewis Masaro to it when I was in his mastermind. And he was floored by it, right? And so that was like right at the early days. And I knew the moment that I pressed submit on something and I saw it magically spit something out. I was like, this is going to change everything. And it clearly has. I mean, think about just that progress in those, those, you know, few short years feels like an eternity in AI, you know, world, right? With how much it is changing. But what I did is, you know, up to recently, there was a tool that had come out. And I know probably some movers know about this, but it's really not for the faint of heart. And I'll be real with you, but it's called OpenClaw. And OpenClaw is basically a framework to take an API of an AI agent and install it on your computer. And now it has full browser use. It can browse the web for you. It can build apps for you. It can, you know, all of that. And so this agent lives within, you know, my signal chats, which is we use signal messenger at my, my moving company and my like a telegram chat. And it lives right back here on the computer. Its name is Avery. I also have some other sub agents under it, like Holly and a couple others that have very specific roles in my company. But Avery does help us in a lot of ways to help optimize. So when we say build those landing pages, I can literally say, Hey, Avery, we have a new realtor partner. Here's their headshot. Go build us go research them. Make it SEO friendly. Build them a landing page and a moving prep kit, like that they can, you know, give to their sellers. And let me know when it's done. I mean, three to five minutes later, it's deployed on a website live. Here's the link. And we're able to send that to a realtor pretty quickly than we ever have. So we can literally launch landing pages, additional blogs all through just my mess in like like my messenger app on my phone. Wow. So this is the future. And it does live in some of my group chats too. So, you know, in sales and things like that. So currently I have it tied into the smart moving API, which, you know, I'll do respect to those guys. I love them, but I wish they would expand it a bit more. But right now for the, for instance, the other day I had a client text me and I was out walking my dog. And she says, Hey, I want to book this day. And I'm just like, dude, you know, load and smart moving up on my phone is kind of the worst. And I didn't want to forget because I'm one of those guys who like, if I don't do this right now, there's a good chance I won't ever do it. And so I literally messaged Avery. I said, Avery, book this client for me. Here's her information. Here's where she's moving from and to. And this is the date. And here's the hourly rate. Submit literally went into the smart moving API. Did everything put the notes in everything that I needed. And pretty much had it ready to be scheduled. The only thing I had to do is log into smart moving and press the book button as the only thing it couldn't do. So now that is the future of I think CRM is having some type of agent be able to interact on the top layer of this. And yes, the user interface and all that stuff matters. We still need to look at these things. But having an agent be able to interact with those apps is going to be the future. The other cool thing I can do with Avery is I can message and say, Hey, we have this client who says we forgot to tell him about drive time or something. Let's just give an example. Can say, Hey, here's their phone number. Here's their opportunity number and smart moving. Pull the call recordings, transcribe it and let me know if you know, my sales agent was able to told them about drive time. And it can literally transcribe and message me back within three to five minutes if that happened. And so this is something that I don't even know if a VA could do as quickly or as efficiently as this. That's amazing. I mean, I have kind of heard about these these concepts, you know, these agents. I don't know how to even get started with setting one up. Is there a lot of setup and training? Do you have to do any coding? You mentioned the API, which is, you know, that's basically for anybody who may not know. It's the key to like connect things to your to your CRM or whatever program it is that you that have, you know, it's not just CRM's that have APIs. There's a lot of APIs. But, you know, I'm not an expert when it comes to that stuff. Is this something that anybody can do or is this something that you just have a lot of knowledge and expertise in? For sure. I think it's just, I mean, I'm probably one on, I'm probably on the top of like one of the more technical, you know, moving company owners out there that does this. And in my community of like the Let's Go boys and things, I'm always flooring them with stuff I'm doing and they're always like, dude, I don't know how you do it. But it's really the secret is that like, dude, I don't know a lick of code. You know, I've gotten more familiar with it, but I don't know anything of this stuff. So really, it's not too hard, you know, these days if you hit a quick YouTube tutorial up and you go get a Mac mini, most of these people are getting like Mac mini's to put it on. I'm just gonna have five, six hundred dollar, you know, computer. And the agent just lives on this computer. It's sole purpose is to do that. And just with one line and a terminal command, you can install this thing. And it will walk you through the setup. It's crazy. Hey, do you have Goucha Gbt? Do you want to link that? Do you have an API key from Google Gemini? Do you want to link that cool? And you can use all kinds of different, you know, the different, oh, there goes my headphone. All of the different, you know, AI providers out there, you can utilize. So yeah, I think the setup isn't too bad. It's just that when it breaks, it's like, well, how do I fix this? Or, you know, things like that that I think become a little more daunting of like, okay, now I got to open up a terminal window. I got to type a command, things of that nature that might be a little daunting. And that's why I say it's not for the faint of heart. You know, when I, when I started with this way to start about a month and a half ago, I was kind of worried that like, man, I don't want to get too dependent on it that it's doing so much in my business than now I won't be able to live without it. And the reality is is I can't live without it now. So it's just the truth. Like there's no way, like the stuff that it does for me and how much better it makes it. It's like it's literally taking JAPGPT and putting on steroids. And that's exactly now what you're able to do with it. So, and I think the people who are going to do it, you know, are really going to be separating themselves if they're, how fast they can implement different tools or how much easier can make your life, whether it's just interacting with smart moving. I mean, the thing checks my email, it can send email responses, it can send, you know, I hate sending Zoom links to people. So it can literally just do that, you know, so. - Just all kinds of stuff, dude. - Yeah, it's like a VA. I mean, I feel like it basically can do everything for the most part. - Oh, you know, a lot of VA's can do for tasks like that. That's amazing. I definitely won't play with that, you know. - I want to take a second and tell you all about Titan Up Training. As a co-founder, we've spent months and months and months and a lot of money pulling together resources from some of the best moving companies in the world. And we're excited to bring this to an online platform available to any mover to use at an affordable price. Titan Up Training has over 200 videos, including mover training, your highest turnover position so that you can reduce claims, streamline operations, give your team the tools to perform at the highest level of service that generate repeat and referral business and allow you to charge higher prices, as well as sales training, marketing training, business development leadership, we're adding more content as we speak, we've got legal training in there, we've even got door to door training for the moving industry thanks to Lenny Gray at the Moving Titan retreat. We've seen a massive explosion of moving companies jumping on to Titan Up Training since the last retreat and people are loving it. And when you sign up and mention this podcast, we're gonna give you a free six week onboarding course in order to learn how to hold your team accountable and get the entire team on the platform so that you can have the best off season and summer season that you've ever had. So go to TitanUpTraining.com, schedule your free demo today and look forward to tightening up. - After our last Titan retreat, I wanted to figure out a way that we could put together directory of all the attendees with an interactive map where you could go in there and see what you got of job going to North Carolina, you just zoom in on the map, who's in North Carolina. And I basically just started talking to Chad GBT and went down this rabbit hole and it literally built out Python code and showed me how to host it on like a short mini URL and be able to text this link to people. I don't know how you got it, but I said it to a bunch of people. Like check this out, we got this whole interactive map on like where everybody was at the retreat that I had contact information for is based out of. We've used that to hire companies that, you know, we hired an M-movers up in near Delaware when we had to drop a shipment off because there was a blizzard or something and we had to get our driver back. Customer wasn't gonna be ready for the delivery but they needed to get their stuff, you know. By date, so I pulled up my map of our Titan retreat attendees and I zoomed in on that area and picked out the closest company and we reached out and we dropped off the shipment at their warehouse. They delivered it on the final mile, everybody was happy. So it was a really helpful thing, but like I built this whole thing just by talking to chat GPT and asking how to do that. And it spit out all this code. It gave me step-by-step directions. I would ask questions to clarify what certain terms and keywords like terminal was, you know, the terminal commands and all that. You know, so it can, like you can just talk to AI and ask it how to do this stuff and it could probably walk you through everything you need to know about setting that up. I'm probably next time I have some free time on my hands, I might go down that rabbit hole and figure out the open claw. Is that related to the notebook that I saw where they created their own social network? - Yeah. - All these agents? - For sure, yeah. So, you know, it started as claw bot and then it went to mold bot and then, yeah, they created a social network and it's a social network just for our agents. And so only our agents can go in there and post and stuff. I haven't connected that. I didn't want to. But it's funny to see that like, yo, humans are screenshotting us and sharing it online and like, I don't know, it's weird. It's really weird where it's at. But yeah, I heard something about Mark Zuckerberg wanted to buy a notebook or something like that. - I think they maybe did. I think they might have bought it. - Yeah, I don't know who they bought it from. Did they buy it from the AI's? Or did somebody, did somebody have the rights to it? I don't know. But yeah, crazy, crazy times. And so are you training it to learn how to do smart moving tasks like that or whatever VoIP system is pulling the transcripts or are you connecting it to those APIs and it already knows what's that process. - Yeah, for sure. So yeah, I plug in those APIs from the different things. Whether it's Go High Level, whether it's Versel, which is where I host my website, get GitHub, all of those things. And I start just connecting all those different APIs and then I give it API documents and I say, "Hey, research this. Start to test it, play around with it." And how could we work with this? Like, how could this help our workflow? One of the biggest things with AI that people don't do is reverse prompting. It's like, "Hey, based upon what you know about me, what could we do that could get us closer to our goals today?" Reverse prompt. And so I think like those are the things that are like, "Oh, wow, well, based upon what I know about you, we could be working on this, this, and this, or you need to get this done." So that's been a big one for sure. So once you plug in the APIs, I think, and give it API docs, it starts to kind of figure it out. I also have it connected to our, you know, truck GPS systems, API too. So I can say, "Hey, where's green?" We have, you know, we do colors for our trucks, but I say, "Where's green truck?" And I literally say, "Oh, here you go." And it will give me the coordinates where I can click on a Google map and see exactly where it is without opening the app. Or I can see its history through the day and it can show that for me. Or, "Hey, what time did the trucks get started today?" See if the guys were later not on dispatch. So that's some of the stuff you could do too. So once, you know, APIs are the future and MCP, which is model context protocol, which is the way AI's are deciphering these APIs in a kind of a simpler fashion. So I did go and build my own smart moving MCP, which is what, it's like a little server that kind of hosts all of the endpoints. And so it knows exactly how to do the different things. So if I needed to do something, it doesn't have to make six different API calls that has like one and it kind of does it all at one time. So it's kind of nice, man, it's a fun, efficient system. And, you know, I'm sure I'm not even using it to all of its possibilities. But, man, talk about that. - It seems like there's unlimited possibilities with the-- - There really is, dude. - Yeah. I recently saw that the newest version of ChatGBT, I follow some AI accounts and I was reading up on some of these updates that have recently rolled out like what's new in AI. And I know you're in the mailing business. You know, full disclosure, we do work with USA homeless things, but you know, it's okay to have that mentality of abundance with multiple people in different industries all coming together. And I saw that ChatGBT was now scraping, but like it showed that it could scrape San Francisco's homeless things and pull up a bunch of all the houses, whatever parameters, talk about the real estate market and very detailed demographics. You know, I don't think it replaces services like yours and USA with Eric and those guys, but it's an interesting thing because I use ChatGBT to do market research data for our different markets and see like, you know, what's the average home price in San Antonio? What's the average home price in Tampa? You know, what are the demographics? What are-- you know, we talked a little bit about avatars of your customers. And I like to talk to it about doing that kind of research and development of really hone in on like, you know, who is my customer and what are they doing and where are they living and how are they spending their money and what are they looking for with moving companies? I'm curious if you've used AI to help research market data or to help come up with different strategies and campaigns and your own mailers or your other marketing that you might be doing. Yeah, for sure. You know, one of the things that I'm eager to build out for my business development rep is to have an agent for her to be able to interact with and kind of give her her own AI employee, who will more or less-- the goal is that every week it's researching different partners. And we're going to have another API that we'll plug into that can do some data enrichment as far as like, if we get a first name, last name, off of LinkedIn, we can possibly get an email or a phone number so we can start trying to get to the big decision-makers at some of these companies. So that is kind of our hope is to use it to, hey, once a week, go build out a plan for them, spend however many hours doing this, and let's start laying and out based upon four quadrants of our city, north east, southwest, all that stuff. And now that way when she goes out, it's not just, hey, I'm going to make it a real it or day, it's like, no, we're going out and I'm tapping everybody I can in that area. Also, a big part of this outreach is the follow-up. I think that's the big thing where a lot of people fall through with business dev is they're not doing efficient follow-up. If you're just like, hey, I met you once, we went for coffee, but see you, I'll never talk to you again, you're broke, it's already ruined. And so deals are made in the follow-up and the continuous cultivation of that relationship building. And so that's our goal is that if we can get that kind of data, besides just dropping by, you know, cookies, we were able to still email them, post cookie and say, hey, how are the cookies? Yeah, you know, and it'll automatically do some of those follow-ups and email them or text them to or is it mainly like stuck on it? So yeah, I mean, you could connect it to the MailChimp. You know, I don't have it, I think I may have it connected, but I don't know if I've done anything with it on the MailChimp side of things, but we have it connected to the email. And so my goal is to maybe connect to email and so she can say, hey, send this email, hey, I have 10 partners draft a personalized response to all of them. Here's some key details about my meetings with them today. And it will do that. And then it will just send it. And it's beautiful because how much time she saves versus even doing the old school copy paste from chat GPT, right? Now it's actually just able to kind of go in and just do that. So for sure, a lot of potential opportunities that I think a lot of people are sleeping on on the AI thing, but it's really just asking it, like, hey, how can I do this? Hey, how can I install OpenClaw? What would you suggest I do? You know, and then there you go. And it's going to literally give you a search the web on how people are doing this right now. If even if I'm not good at AI, and what to expect, like, is this is this for me? Is it not? Yeah. Well, Steven Reed told me a retreat a couple of years ago when chat GPT was just, you know, fresh off the press. It was like a brand new thing. Maybe it had been around for a few months, but he was like all in, like right away as well. And and I was like, man, how did you learn this thing? How did you like, how do you know how to use it? He goes, I just asked it. I asked chat GBD. How do I use chat GBD? It's old about how to use it. And I think that, you know, we can do that for a lot of this stuff. And, you know, probably a lot way too technical to go into all the details on it for a podcast. But like, you know, just take that with you and do what you will. I mean, the information that we have access to today, I mean, it's really a magician in your pocket at this point. And I mean, I use chat GBD pretty much every day. But I've also, I've got all the other ones. I'm looking on my bookmark tabs. I've got GROC. I've got Clawed. I've got Proplexity. Gemini I found is really good for making, like images. Just today I made a joke image of my friend and I switched his face on to mine where I was doing something. And I just sent a picture of me and I sent a picture to him and I said, switch faces. And it just, yeah, it looks flawless. So it's really, really amazing, you know, what you can do. And I'm finding that like each of these different AIs, I go to them for slightly different things. Like, the Clawed is really good at cleaning up spreadsheets or building out really like complicated spreadsheets with a lot of formulas and a lot of really like making them look very pretty and so that I can use them for a presentation or if I'm showing somebody or just to have like a template on how to run certain KPIs and scorecards and stats on different things. And chat GBD when I tried to ask that, you know, it could do something, but I found that Clawed like nailed it. Like first try. And I was like, holy cow, like this is my new spreadsheet wizard. Anytime I want to make a pretty spreadsheet with complicated formulas to do what I want to do, like it connect multiple spreadsheets and aggregate it into one. I mean, it was pretty impressive stuff. You know, I'm still figuring out like Proplexity and what that might be a good use case for. I know GROC is scraping the whole X feed of information so it's really good for like current event related things. Most of you have heard me talk about Moversville and the power of their email marketing service that has helped us increase leads by over 112 percent over the last year. But have you heard of Moversville Connect? Moversville Connect is an incredible resource for all things moving. They feature an array of vendors and services and lists like insurance providers, software, equipment suppliers, marketing sources and much, much more. The best part, this resource is free. Go check out Moversville Connect today by going to Moversville.com and clicking connect. That's Moversville.com and click connect and discover the world of Moversville beyond. But I'm curious like, do you use multiple different LLMs or AI platforms and for different use cases and like what are some of those? Yeah, for sure. Let's get into it. So, Claude is my main. Claude Opus is for the more complicated, you know, big, big picture stuff. And it just has a great personality for some reason. And then I'll use Sonnet when I'm running out of usage. Usage can be a thing in this game. And so, and then for just quick questions, I'll still fire up the chat GPT. Some of the other ones I don't touch as much as I used to, but there are those weird use cases. Like I still like Gemini when you can turn your camera around and you're like, hey, I'm doing this thing right now and you can get in the voice mode. And like, especially if I'm like working on something that I'm stuck on or like, maybe it's, you know, on a car, you know, I'm like, hey, look at this thing. Where do you think I should do or, you know, whatever if a truck broke down or something. But that has been good too. The other thing that I did is, you know, I went and bought, you know, a pretty good computer here, which is called a Mac studio and I literally have a local LLM hosted on it, which is it's a model called Quinn 3.5. It's a, it's a Chinese open weight model. And China's been very, you know, like good about pushing their models and making them open sourced and things like that. And this is really where I think the future is, is our own private LLM's that aren't in the cloud and things like that that we can interact with or that will, you know, do stuff with us that we don't even have to pay inference for. I don't have to pay any API for it. So I hosted over there and so a lot of people are doing this kind of local AI game and I'll be honest with you. It's just also kind of another hobby. It's kind of fun. So yeah, man, that's kind of my LLM. But, you know, Opus definitely, cloud Opus for, for number one, for choice for sure. Yeah, yeah. I've been playing more and more with that. It's done some stuff that used to take hours, you know, even just like changing like the colors and like merging cells and really simple things that just take a long time to do on your own. It'll spit it out in 15 seconds. It's really, really cool. And I could tell you're passionate about it and I'm just fascinated by the whole thing. One of the things I was just talking with Austin about we had a podcast recording right before this one is creating like a custom GPT or a custom, you know, bought, I guess LLM, whatever you want to call it, that knows everything about your company has all of your SOPs, which I have uploaded all of our SOPs into chat GPT and a custom, you know, project that I can reference for various things. But, but basically building this thing out to make it more customer facing and putting it as like a bot on your website that can actually book moves over text whether, you know, they're chatting with the website person. They think that, you know, because it's so conversational now that it feels like you're talking to a real person when you're asking at these questions. And I'm thinking like, why can't we train it on everything there is no about our company so that it knows more than I do as far as like every detail of an SOP that I would otherwise have to go back and reference. And then maybe even it, you know, is cleaning up SOPs and like making them even more optimized, more simple, better, whatever. But can we train it as a salesperson, give it our script, our rebuttles, all the FAQs that our company has, and then planting that onto our site so that customers can literally, and then APIing it to like a smart moving and then, you know, making it so that they can literally chat with this thing and book their move, pay their deposit, do everything that a human would otherwise be doing. Do you think something like that currently is possible? And what do you think the LOM that would be best capable of handling something like that is? Yeah, for sure. I think that's a good question. Like, obviously, you want it to be conversational, you want it to be trained to interact like one of your agents. And it needs to have some of your SOPs. You also need to make sure that like while you're doing this, I think not only does that world exist where it has like the references for your sales, what it does and its sole purpose, you also have another version of this that's more for your operation side of things. So I think, you know, we're an operator, an operator at your business or maybe it's a sales rep has a question about a process. It can literally go on there and like, do we move hot tubs? Like, I got this question the other day from our business development rep. So like, do we move hot tubs? Like, it's been here a while. I hope she had known that actually we don't really dig in on that, but she could have asked that maybe before even coming to us. So, but I do see a side of it where eventually, yes, right now, I've already explored the option of tying in an LOM kind of like what I have over here with OpenClaw to like a Twilio or to a text interface where they can text it and it's always going to interact right here through this text message. And yeah, it could be tied into smart moving and helping you book jobs. And I think that exists right now. I think that would be a better use of AI now than maybe even the voice agents. I'll do respect. I'm personally not a big fan of the AI voice stuff that's going on. And I was going to bring that up. Yeah, I was going to bring that up next, but no, continue your thought. We can chat on that here. I was like, yeah, for sure. But like, I really, I think that that is the world. And I think like my goal, like last year, I had this prediction and it didn't really come true that more people will book on online and I think it's the craziest thing in the world that there's these CRMs out here. And there's a lot of them, they're all great, they do a lot, but none of them have figured out how to build a tool to help their customers book moves online. And that to me, it's just wild because I do believe there's a world here where, you know, we're in the Uber lift generation where we can have instant gratification to order something right away that as those younger generations, Gen Zers come up into the market who can start to afford movers, they're going to want to book moves online. You know, that's all they know. And so I think there has to be a way to make those smaller one, two bedroom, maybe even three bedroom apartments, bookable online. I'm not saying you should be able to book house moves online yet. I'm not a big fan of that because of course, as you know, talking to them, we, I want a qualifyum, you know what I mean, I want to know how much stuff they have in their home, but typically a two bedroom apartment, let's be honest, I think we all have those pretty well figured out. So I do think there's a world where we can start with some smaller moves. And as the technology gets better and as we adapt to trust it more, we can start to expand into the bigger move. So yeah, I'm right there with you and I, you know, I was saying Austin, our ideal customer age 40 to 65, sometimes older than that, you know, they, they still want to talk to a person, they're, they're not quite as tech savvy, they're not, you know, they don't trust it as much, they want to have a face-to-face conversation, whether it's a virtual, over live switch or an on-site estimate, somebody going out there or even just a phone call where they're talking to a real person, but you know, millennials and, and later, you know, Jen, whatever generations were up to Gen Z, Gen X, Gen A, whatever it is now. Like as those start to come of age, you know, they're, they've been born with a screen in their hand and texting. I mean, they're probably texting before they're talking in a lot of cases or navigating an iPad or something. And, you know, I think that, that will be how people want to do business. I mean, even today, I know myself and I'll, people that are a lot older than me prefer to text rather than call because when you, when you, you can't, you know, it's hard to talk to somebody when you're in a noisy place or if you're with friends, you can't, you know, it's rude to just take a call and start talking, but how many times are you out in public? Can you see people both texting other people and having four different conversations when they're sitting across from each other at dinner? I mean, that is, it's just a lot more succinct, you know, there's pros and cons to it. Obviously, you can't convey certain tonalities and personalities as well, but I do think that a lot of the younger generation as they start to become our ideal customers are going to want to book over text. They're going to want to book with, you know, chat and the chat is so much more conversational than the agent, the voice agents right now. And, you know, I think a lot of people, you know, a year, you're in a half ago, we're really, really bullish on the voice agents. And we adopted them. We still use one, but it, you know, we use the super move one actually and it connects with smart moving. But I just think that people know it's a voice agent still. It's, it's, it's just, you know, you hear, it almost sometimes I feel like people are like operator, operator. Let me talk to, you listen to some of those calls and they're kind of clunky. They lag, they cut people off. They don't give them what they want. I think you could probably be a lot smoother with like a messaging AI agent, at least where things are right now. And I do think that eventually the voice agents will catch up and they will probably get a lot better and you'll probably be able to do virtuals with an AI that looks exactly like a regular human that could, you know, I think it's going to continue to improve at light speed. But it's not quite there. I don't, I don't think, what are your thoughts on that? I don't think it's quite there. And I'll give you some good example, prime examples of this, you know, like, well, first of all, I haven't adapted it into my business, you know, currently Austin and I use a call center that only is US based. And I don't even use VAs there for a lot of stuff. And I really, I love it's a few hundred dollars more a month that I'll spend and maybe even more. But the reality is they're always getting, you know, an American human on the phone. And even though they might not know everything and it's a call center still, there's some of that disconnect. It's still so much better than give me an agent or some of the cringy stuff that I'm seeing AI do. And so, but and I'll give you another example of where like just because like I said, you, you can, doesn't mean you should is that I with my open claw and Avery, I programmed using one of the more popular like APIs for voice agents. I programmed a hiring agent. And so the hiring agent is to field the calls. And so it starts with, hey, my name's Melissa with the eye hole. I move, you know, hiring team. My purpose is I'm an agent, but this will take about 10 minutes. It's to field some questions to you to see if you'd be a good fit on progressing your career with our company. And so we, we deployed this and what it does is after it's done, it sends to another LLM to analyze their sentiment, their questions and give us a scale from one to 10. If they recommend we should contact this person or not. Now, it's been great. I will say it's like a really cool tool, but a lot of people hang up. And I think of how movers think and how they might not be the most tech savvy. And I actually think once I after we implemented this, I said like, I think we might have to go back to, you know, Kathleen's her name. She's like our operations via I said, Kathleen, I think you're going to have to just come back to the phones. I was like, I don't think we can have we, you know, her field, the, are the AI field these calls anymore because I think we're losing a part of it, right? A part of the kind of like human touch to this. And I think we're probably losing some movers because of it. They're getting turned off. I mean, we, we do a lot of our interviews, our group interviews over, you know, Google me and not a lot of people show up. And I'm like, I think we got to go back to a lot more in person because we're trying to feel them in a quick way and have our VA help with that. But I'm like, I think we're going to have to go back to the old school way because I think AI might be kind of turning some people off here. It might, it might be hurting us more than it's, it's helping us here. Yeah, I think we've seen a lot of things kind of similarly come full circle. You know, we had originally back in the day, you would just talk to your neighbors and see who they used or your friends, you know, who everybody used to, and the yellow pages came about and we ever had the biggest boldest page in the yellow pages would get the calls. And then Google shut down the yellow pages basically. And everybody wanted the best website with SEO and all the black hat stuff and they just needed all the keywords listed in a million directories and all this stuff. And whoever had the website won the game. And then social media came around and then anybody who had the social media presence, if your company had a Facebook, then you know, you were cutting edge and you know, people would find you on there and then all of a sudden everybody has a Facebook and, you know, and now it's, it's AI, which is kind of the next big thing. Everybody wants to hop on that AI bandwagon. But I honestly feel like certain elements are going to come full circle or they already have come full circle where it's kind of back to that grassroots at the end of the day. You know, people want to go back to doing business with people, you know, they don't want to see just pick a company because they have the biggest yellow page. They don't want to just pick a company that has a website. You're expected to have a website. You're expected to have social media. Now, you know, it's getting a place where you're expected to have AI and it just seems like it's all kind of come back around to where it's like you can't, we still can't replace it. I don't think we necessarily ever will replace the fact that business people want to do business with people. And it's important to keep that in mind because if you're the person who's going to be the face of your company and you're still going to give people that that one-on-one human being to human being treatment, all of a sudden that stuff that was a hundred years ago, what worked is now what is helping you stand out in this world of all the tech. And that's not any way to say that like the tech isn't isn't going to ultimately help us all because I think it will. But I think we still have to be conscious and strategic about where we implement it and how we implement it in order for it to be as effective as possible. We can't just let it run and like do, you know, let it run our business for us. We have to be able to to know like this, this is where it makes sense to run it. And I see AI and training becoming a really, really big thing. I mean, obviously I have we have a training company with Titan up training. And I look at my moving company as a training company that happens to do moves because like we have to constantly be training and enforcing us with ease and we've got new people coming in and that, you know, we want to get them up to speed as quickly as possible. And I think with voice agents, there's a really good use case if somebody can figure out how to use the voice agents on the flip side to where we can now roleplay with them as opposed to having customers call and talk to a voice agent. The voice agent is the customer and we can now practice roleplaying and it can read the transcripts, provide the insights and the feedback in real time as people are talking to them. And I know some people that are working on building out those training voice agent things. But I think that there's going to be things that we can do with the movers as well where AI is giving them real time feedback. Companies like LiveSwitch, you know, they they have people that are adopting a live switch for their crews, not just their salespeople. So they can go through the home and do the pre-move inventory with LiveSwitch and it'll use AI to tally up all the furniture. You know, we've had Yembo, we've had come home AI, we've had some other tools that have allowed you to take pictures or the customer to take pictures or videos and get that inventory and all those things along with LiveSwitch on the video's side are great for for that. But I think that there may be an even more valuable piece of using those things to to prevent missing things or problems or documenting things. And then on the training side as well from an internal standpoint that I think is a lot of times overlooked because we're trying to find that magic bullet from the marketing and the sales side. But but the real gold might might be the flip side, the reverse of that internal. But those are just my philosophical thoughts on it. For sure. I think you've nailed it there Wade for sure. And I try to tell people to, as we progress, we always want to get bigger and better. And I see people who even have their ring central phone system, and they have for press one, press two, press three. I'm like, guys, get rid of that. That's actually killing calls. A lot of people will bounce out just because of that. Or the AI agents go straight into like, get, go back to a ringer. Just go back to a ringer, guys. Like, you don't need to have the whole music that's like, hey, welcome to a whole lot of move. I used to do it. And people bounce out. Yeah, us too. Yeah. And we-- Exactly. We did the same thing. We did create a custom jingle that, you know, instead of it just being a ring phone, it does start to play. And it actually upsells for us. So like, you know, kiss taping boxes, goodbye. Ask your moving consultant about packing services. Hello, this is Jay with two college brothers. How's it going? So like, you know, or if they have to be put on hold or transferred or something like that. But like, yeah, we have it ringed directly to our team. Now, after-- you know, because Lewis used to talk about having that IVR set up to where it directs to the departments. And you don't want a bog your salesperson down with a claim or an operations question or solicitor or whatever. But like, the fact of the matter is, that's going to create the best customer experience. And after doing it that way for a while, we went back to just having it ringed directly to our customer facing sales team. Because I'd rather capture those leads and have them take the occasional non-sales related call and transfer them or, you know, tell them we're not interested. Then miss those leads altogether just because we're trying to route that call somewhere else. And I think-- Oh, for sure. --I think you're onto something for sure with that. Well, Matt, I know that we had talked about, you know, maybe keeping it to 45 minutes, it's close to two an hour. We've already got over an hour. I've got-- to get on the road here, going to see my sister this weekend down in Sanabelle Island, where she's staying on the beach. So pretty excited about that. But I do have to wrap it up, unfortunately. But are you coming out in June to Scottsdale for our Mastermind retreat? Definitely going in June, you know, Austin told me in the call. And they called me and they's like, dude, you got to go. We're going to have a great time. And I just had come back from another retreat where it was in person at a mansion. And I can tell you that those tech-- like, I'll do respect. I love your events. Don't get me wrong. But I love those. I like those a little bit better. I like just the person hanging out sessions, you know what I mean? Those mean more to me. So I'm definitely excited to come out and be a part of this opportunity. So thank you, Wade. Absolutely. That's how we got started with the Titan retreats as we were doing this. This was like our original plan was to bring together 15, 20 movers from all walks of the country, doing all kinds of different things. And we got so much value out of those. I mean, Chad, he forexed his business. I brought him to one that was actually in Scottsdale that Jesse and Chris Shipp organized from mentors moving. And they had a bunch of us out there. And Chad was like nervous to go because he's like all these big dogs are going to be there. I'm just like, I think he was doing like 800,000 at the time. It was probably 2021. And he came back from that so fired up with so many nuggets ready to take his business to the next level. And has literally forexed his business since then. And believe it in so much, that's why we started doing that. Hosting our own. And then that ultimately got too big to contain to one Airbnb mansion, which is how we started doing the conferences, which are a ton of fun too. And awesome, awesome experience. But we decided like, let's get back to our roots and do a more intimate mastermind one again, because that so much magic happens. We talk about this kind of stuff. We show each other these kinds of things that we've been doing. Just share these ideas behind closed doors that maybe you're don't want to talk about on a podcast or on a public stage. But you don't mind talking about with 10 other movers and confidence and sharing some real powerful stuff. And it is just motivating. I get so fired up for weeks after I come back to implement all these nuggets, because whether you're doing $20 million, $5 million, $1 million, or you're just starting off, that you got something to learn from everybody in your step in the way. That's good. Yeah, sometimes getting back to the fundamentals, the grassroots stuff that you forgot about, because you grew a lot. You get really fresh perspectives on how these people that don't have the resources to be inefficient or finding ways to be a lot more efficient. And then of course, you got the companies that are bigger than you that where were you were at? And they can give you some insights on what allowed them to break through the ceiling and hit that growth. So I mean, there's a lot of good stuff. But I'm not going to sell too much. If you guys want to learn more information about it, just come hit us up on Instagram or send me a message, whatever you want to do. Now, if people want to get in touch with you for any of the services that you offer for the moving industry or just the talk shop or talk about AI, what's the best way to do that? I think Instagram, Maddie Mellers, is a great one. And they can obviously hit up our business. I haul, I move. That's probably a great way. But yeah, anybody who hits me up on Facebook message or any of those type of options, I'm always eager to help other people and like you said, there's always something to learn from everybody, man. I'm always learning stuff even from movers that are smaller than me. And so I always can appreciate that. So thank you so much Wade for having me on today, man, it's been a great time. Absolutely. Well, thanks for coming on the Grigory Review Company podcast. It was good to have a long form conversation. I think we've only kind of talked in passing before. So this was really good. Get to know you a little bit better, Maddie, and looking forward to seeing you in June. So until next time, thanks for tuning in everybody. Tighten up. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Grow Your Moving Company podcast. If you'd like to learn more about any of the sponsors listed on this show, want to apply for the next moving, tight and retreat, or interested in owning or working for two college brothers franchise, drop me a line at [email protected]. Moving out, have a great day.