Lessons From Our Exes: 5 Red Flags We Ignored

Never in a million years did I think I would say this I am so effing grateful for my ex You don't get the luxury of a normal breakup when you still share the same slack channel I'm not even 33 I'm 30 and I'm imagining one of my 33 year old friends. I know going on a date or like 20 year old I'd be like excuse me if one of my guy friends did that I'd be like you are no longer my guy friend because that's just odd he played in my face That's crazy and you kind of just went with it You weren't there for the Japanese bonds conversation and thank God I wasn't I would have told you to beat it these hose ain't loyal I'm Shuri I'm Jean and where the tiger sisters We are your Wall Street and Silicon Valley big sisters and we're a top 10 business podcast bringing late-night Sister talk meets boardroom strategy Buckle up Tiger fam today is a juicy episode where we're diving in to the top five lessons that we've learned from our Exes because today's episode is a little bit different than when we usually talk about on money power and career And we're actually honing in on the love angle of our show We're diving deep into the mistakes the red flags We ignored and the things that we wish people had told us earlier because chances are you've been there too And we want to help you save time and energy and get your love life right Relationships are one of the biggest forces in a person's life And they can affect you emotionally financially and even professionally so today We are combining our own personal lived experience with research and psychology to give you the top five lessons We've learned from our axis You can think of this episode as a public service announcement to our younger selves Mm-hmm and as Jean said we don't normally talk strictly about love But money power love career these things are all super intertwined because let's be real money is emotional and love can also be strategic So these things come together and we're excited to dive in today and the way you know This is a tiger sister special is because for each love lesson there is also a business lesson So lesson number one is do not put anyone on a pedestal This is a lesson that Jean and I have actually both had to learn the hard way Jean could you please share a little bit more? Absolutely, so the first thing I'll say is that once you've decided someone is extraordinary in your brain You kind of start editing out all the reasons why they're not extraordinary and you continue to convince yourself that they are Extraordinary so let me tell you guys a little story about this guy who cheated on me guys This is a true Candid moment because Jean has actually never told me this before So I'm hearing it for the first time as you guys are hearing it Shere knows this guy she's met him obviously because he was my boyfriend, but you were really young I mean I can high school. Yeah, so like I wasn't gonna tell you this when you were in high school wasn't relevant to you I wanted to know the team maybe No, you had to like study pure SATs. Okay fair. I couldn't distract you but okay, so the story is this is a guy that I dated obviously a long time ago and He was my boyfriend and early on in the relationship I found out that he when he was younger he had cancer and he obviously went through a huge ordeal and he beat cancer So in my mind that was kind of the defining fact about him right that was like his story and of course I didn't realize this at the time, but I immediately put him on a pedestal in my mind I was like, oh my god. He is so mature. He knows so much about life because he has beat cancer, right? Like he knows what's important and I really just like looked up to him as a default Yeah, once you put someone on a pedestal, it's really hard to see them in a different light no matter what they do Oh absolutely, so the fact that he had faced his mortality it kind of colored every single thing about him So in reality he was a very playful but also incredibly immature guy and Even like he would say things to me. He literally said to me like, oh, I just always assumed I would die at the age of 24. So that's how I live my life So like he was kind of a crazy guy like he would do all these wild things But I would just totally ignore it because the prevailing principle or fact about him in my head was that he beat cancer He's so mature like and everything he did in the face of that that was extremely immature. I would just ignore You know and then he did turn out to be Unfortunately extremely manipulative guy and he would say all these things to me like I don't think I even told you this But you know once he said to me you would be perfect at 112 pounds which was a total a number He totally pulled out of his ass because that's so weird. He didn't even know how much I weighed Like I never even told him he just made up that number weird, right? Yeah, it's not so weird and like all these other things like he quit his job and so he was gonna work from home This was before working from home was a thing so he tried to convince me to also quit my job so that I could work from home with him like odd so odd and like very manipulative and like I mentioned earlier he cheated on me So the irony is that this was a guy who While I was dating him all my friends would be like You are so out of his league like that's not something that people really say so when they say it they mean it They really mean it yeah, but I just could never see it because I'd always put him on this pedestal of like this amazing mature guy who beat cancer Yeah, that's really I mean unfortunate and I didn't know that he cheated on you Which also adds just like fuel to the fire of all the other red flags that had gone on yeah It was in my face too because he the person he cheated on me with was an ex-girlfriend and I thought they were just friends So I like didn't I knew this is ex-girlfriend But I was like whatever I'm like chill girl and I'm not really a jealous person naturally So like I didn't care that they were hanging out, but he like brought her around I like let her address of mine. Don't I know that's crazy I love it. It's really beautiful designer dress to like wear to this formal. We all went to Wait, that's insane. I know I know he played in my face That's crazy and you kind of just went with it. I know because like I'm a I'm naturally a very trusting person Yeah, and because I assigned this like really high level of morality to him for kind of Not no reason, but a reason of the past like something that doesn't have to do with him in the present state Yeah, exactly so please guys learn from my mistake Okay, also I know who this person is and I will say about a decade later I was in San Francisco and I saw this weirdo guy who cheated on Jean I guess now that I know that he cheated but this weirdo guy at a club when I'm like I'm literally you know 10 years younger than you. What are you doing at the same club as me like you're weird and old and Creepy and I'm like here with my cute friends and so I'm just like No, no, so I have that I have that to share So I think the lesson here applied to love is that pedestals are dangerous putting someone on a pedestal because You fell in love with the story of them, which is what I did I fell in love with this guy and his kind of hero narrative is something that can totally cloud your judgment for the duration of your relationship. I just think putting people on pedestals is really dangerous in love and also in your career too in the Professional world if you have a mentor or a manager especially if you're very early on in your career You could be like this person is so amazing. I really look up to them But in reality they're just a person and they have faults of their own that might come out in the workplace Or that might be in their personal lives as well So like putting people on pedestals sets you up for disappointment, which is short a calm and I don't even mean that in like a bad way But like yeah, you will be disappointed so just don't put someone on a pedestal and expect them to live out this Grand vision you have for them and the business lesson here is around the decision making lesson in the business world This is called the halo effect. It's when one impressive trait Out shines all the other red flags that someone might have so in jeans case it's you know her ex who survived cancer But also cheated on her and also said all these like extremely manipulative and egregious statements that don't excuse like it doesn't Excuse his behavior Also if someone is super charismatic in the workplace You know they're great on stage. They have great presence. It's really easy to be charmed by them or really look up to them But I think just like ground it in reality like everyone has faults and don't look up to People because they will end up disappointing you. Yeah, this is truly the tiger sister special because you are relating You're taking my trauma and my love lesson and applying it to business because you're right This is something that I think people put Business people on pedestals all the time especially in the founder world, right like founders of startups like think about Elizabeth Holmes, right of Theranos Or Adam Newman of we work. They were kind of held up as these almost like God and goddess like people who they were like wow I can't believe they like came up with this business structure where they came up with this invention and All the other red flags think about all the things that were came out afterwards about the way that they acted Yeah within their companies and everyone just ignored them Well also the fact that like Elizabeth Holmes like went to Stanford and dropped out following the similar path of like Mark Zuckerberg Who dropped out and then Steve Jobs who dropped out like they're like wait? This is a pattern that we can recognize. Let's ignore all the other red flags even I think her like documentary or maybe it wasn't a dog the movie made about her the TV show made about her is called the dropout Like that's what people focused on yeah, and it was this like pedigree that they held so highly yeah when They should have done a lot more diligence on the background. - Pattern matching. - And facts. - Yeah. - Exactly. And so I guess to wrap up this section, be very careful of the pedestal effect and the halo effect and know yourself. - Yeah, so I think the takeaway here is that oftentimes when the story gets too good, people stop doing their diligence, whether it's emotional diligence in a relationship or investor diligence in business. - So Shari, how do you think about your checkings and savings account? Because for me, checkings is money that I need to use in the next three to four months. And then savings is everything after that, like long term. - And because of that, I feel like most of us don't think about the interest that we could be earning on those accounts. - Mm-hmm. - Well, the problem is most banks give you next to nothing, like a fraction of a percent. And all the while, they're making money off of your deposits. - So that's where today's sponsor, SoFi, comes in. When you open a SoFi Checkings and Savings account and set up direct deposit, you actually earn a competitive APY. And there are no account fees. And that means your money isn't just sitting there, it means it's working. - Right, that's the part most people miss. Having a bank work for you. We think about earning money, but not about the money in our bank account. When in reality, every dollar you earn an interest can earn more interest and over time that growth really adds up. You'll even get paid up to two days early with direct deposit. And you can access an additional FDIC insurance up to $3 million on deposits. Through a seamless network of participating banks. Plus, there's a welcome bonus. Open an account and set up an eligible direct deposit of $1,000 or more to receive a $50 or $300 bonus, terms apply. - Start putting your money to work. Go to SoFi.com/tiger sisters or click the link below to learn more and get started. That's SoFi.com/tiger sisters. SoFi Checking and Savings is offered through SoFi Bank and a member FDIC. I know back to the show. - To that end, we have a bit of a mini exercise for you guys to ask the right questions. - Yes, so if you find yourself in the situation, you're listening to this part of this podcast and you're like, oh shoot, am I putting someone on the pedestal? Here are some questions to clarify. So if you're obsessing over someone who has an amazing job or resume or went to an incredible school, ask yourself, do I actually like this person? What do I like about them, aside from their resume values, the things that we can see on the surface? Have they exhibited any other traits outside of the accolades or accomplishments that make me independently like or respect them as a person or do I just like the idea of them? - So think about why you put them on the pedestal. What is the prevailing reason why you put them on? And then think of counterfactuals based on their actions, right? What are actions that they have done that either support that or go against that? And then you can kind of like tally them up and be like, are there more actions they've done that support this attribute that I think is their primary attribute or are there more actions that go against that? I kind of wish I had done that. Okay guys, lesson number two is mind the age gap. Shree kick us off. - Okay, so you guys have probably heard of the term Kuger or cradle robber, but the thing about age gap relationships is that it's not necessarily about the years itself, but it's about the life stage that you're in. And so I have a personal anecdote about this because I think it's really important to talk about. It's also when you're much younger in your life and younger than the person in the relationship, it has an outsized impact. So this relates to someone I was dating when I was in college, my sophomore and junior year, and they had already graduated. So they were only four years older than me, which is not that much in terms of age gap, but when you are young in college, that age gap makes a pretty big difference. So this person was already graduated from undergrad, they had their full time job. We were living in New York City and we matched on a dating app, which is how that happened. But now that I kind of think about it, I'm just like, you're 23 years old or 24 years old and you're dating someone in college. Like now, someone had told me that I'm like, that's sus. - Where were you as a junior? - I was a sophomore/junior. So I was 19, 20 years old. And so at that age, the age gap feels massive because we are in such different parts of our life. I was still a student going to classes and he had a full time adult job working at a top three consulting firm. So in that way, you're laughing, but like, - A good flex. - I mean, yeah, he worked out a really good consulting firm and something that I-- - Call by its name. - I had always dreamed of working at this consulting firm and I really looked up to him. So he was my boyfriend, but also in a very strange way. He was also my mentor. So I didn't want to let him down. I would second guess or triple guess the things that I said, being like, oh my god, did that sound stupid. Also, it didn't help that he graduated from Harvard and I really looked up to him in that way as well. I was just like, wow, this person is so smart. He's dating me and he's like helping me, like honestly, like figure out my course in life and figure out my internships. And he recommended me to go work at McKinsey as an intern. I didn't end up getting it 'cause my GPA wasn't high now. - Well, because you were a computer science major. - Yes. - I was a computer science major with a 3, 6 GPA, - D-O-M, but when you're up against people studying, I don't know, liberal arts and whoever, like a 3940. - Hey. - I'm like, it's just different and hard, sorry, and I'll just say that. Anyways, back to the age gap, but I would say when you're younger and if you are a woman in the relationship and you are the younger one, there can be power imbalance. Just baked in. - Yeah. I also have a story about this that I've never told you. Whoa, she's been holding back on me, guys. - She doesn't tell me shit. - Yeah, well, I don't share anything. - Because you were too young once again. - Okay. - This is, okay, so this is when I was in college. I was a senior in college, which my senior year, I had finished all my course requirements, so I didn't take any classes, but I stayed on campus, 'cause it was 2009 and I didn't wanna go out into the workforce. And I had already gotten my job after graduation, which is I was gonna work at Goldman. And so what I did on campus was I worked at the Tuck School of Business, and I worked in the Center for Private Equity and Entrepreneurship. One of the things we did every year was we threw this, the story's a little long when did, but stick with me, guys. We threw this conference. So this conference for private equity and entrepreneurship. So people would come in from professionals, would come in from the area and come to this conference at Dartmouth. And so one of the people that came and sat in on the conference with me was this older guy. He was like 33, I think. - Oh my God. - And he started chatting me up at the conference and I told him I was gonna work at Goldman. He was like, oh, I used to work at Goldman. And he's like in 1985. I used to work there. And we were like chatting and like, you know, I said, I guess he asked me if I liked skiing. I was like, yeah, of course I love skiing. So he asked me on a date and we went skiing together as a first date. And it was like super, super fun. It was an amazing first date. And, but you were 21 or 22. - No, I was 20. Because I was born in December. So I'm like, I'm young for my year. So I wasn't even 21 and he was 33. - Oh my God. (laughing) - And he kind of, he had moved to the area because he started his own hedge fund blah, blah, blah. And I just thought, obviously I was really curious and like interested in him because he had done all these things in his career that I thought I wanted to do too, right? 'Cause remember at the time I thought it was gonna be a finance girly for life. And so he was just inherently interesting to me. And I don't know why he was interested in me because I was 20 years old. - I mean, now looking back on it, that's creepy as hell. - It's kind of like a creepy, but the thing is he was like a really nice guy. I mean, the furthest it got was that, I think we wanted a date, we went to dinner, we went back to his house. And then I was just like, mm. - I shouldn't be here. - You're like mom, can you pick me up? I'm scared. - No, I had a feeling inside. I was like, this is a little bit weird. Like this is just a little off. I'm like, I feel like I shouldn't be here. Like there's something inherently, I just feel like I'm out of, I'm not in control, right? Like there's just a power imbalance here that I can't put my finger on. And I never would have known to use those words or use those terms back when I was 20, but there was something inside me where I was like, this is not right. As opposed to like, you know, if I went to the house of someone else who was not 12 years older than me or 13 years older than me. So I just like beat it. I like got out of Dodge and like went home. And nothing ever happened. But I did have that thought where I was like, maybe I should be dating one of the like, 4,000 people here who are my own age. - Yeah. - Instead of this 33 year old man. - Yeah, I mean, I'm not even 33, I'm 30. And I'm imagining one of my 33 year old friends going on a date or like-- - With a 20 year old. - With a 20 year old in college. - We'd be like, could you imagine? - I'd be like, excuse me. If one of my guy friends did that, I'd be like, you are weird. You are no longer my guy friend. Because that's just odd. So I'm glad that it ended up being like an okay situation. And you listen to your gut innocuous. And at the time, like, I thought he was so interesting. He was like teaching me all about Japanese bonds and all this, and I'm a fucking nerd, obviously. So he really got you to go back to his place with Japanese bonds. - He got me with the fucking Japanese bonds. I was like, "Oh yeah, like, Japanese fans tell me more." (laughs) - I mean, but honestly, what I see in both of our stories, if I'm going to be a little bit like-- - We were enamored. - Diagnostic, yeah, like we were kind of enamored with now I'm thinking about it like, ew, with a hedge fund manager and a consulting guy, which, you know, like good for you, but I'm like, that's not something really to be enamored by. I mean, but when we're young, it's, I can see how it's easy to get into that state. - Yeah, yeah. - But that's mine-- - You weren't there for the Japanese bonds conversation. - And thank God, I'm just-- - You're welcome. - I want to told you to beat it. (laughs) But yeah, so mind the age gap. It's easy to get, I think, like, googly-eyed, because they are, like, if the person that you're dating is older, but you totally upstage my story. I had a four-year age gap and you're like, "Hey, wait up, I have a 13-year age gap." - Okay, for the record, this guy was very good looking. - Obviously, otherwise. - Yeah, yeah. - My boyfriend was also good looking. - Yeah, he's very handsome. - And he's very sweet, but I think the, it was actually not a problem of him at all. Like, my story is that the guy I dated, my boyfriend, who was older than me, like, really thoughtful, great guy, really wanted to help me and see me succeed. But I was just so in my head because of the age gap that he just didn't work out at that time. I think at another point in time, when we're in the same stage of life, where we're both working adults in the workplace, it could have totally been fine. Or if I was older than, like, 2021 years old, it would have been more normal. - Yeah. - But-- - No, I agree. Like, it was just, yeah. Sorry, I interrupted you. - No, it was just, she's upstageing me, interrupting me. - I'm just so mean. - My story is just so much better. - Yeah, I mean, it kind of is. You went back to his place and then you're like, "Wait, I shouldn't be here." - Yeah, he had, like, taxidermy, which I like taxidermy. But I was just like, I didn't, none of my, obviously, no one in college had taxidermy in their house. So I was like, hmm. - And that's another reason to leave. But I think actually the thing that I was enamored with was like, I wanted to be an adult so badly. When I was in college. - Oh, yeah. - And this guy had the job, he had, you know, a paycheck, salary, the sexy Manhattan apartment. - He had an apartment, he had like, really fancy wine glasses. That would be like, you know what, he's my hand, 'cause they'll know break, 'cause they're so thin. And I'd be like, ah, you know. Like that was like what, really? I was just like, he's so adult. - Yeah, yeah. - But that is something that would, and like if you are still really adult and you have a nice place, I'm like, that's still nice to me now, I don't know. It hasn't changed to me. - Yeah. - But it's not because you don't have it. - Yes. - It's not because you're aspiring to it. It's because like real recognize, real, at this point, at this point. - At this point. - But what I was gonna say was, I felt, I think it's the same thing with that guy that I dated, is that he was a perfectly nice guy. He was really kind. He never did anything that was like inappropriate. I guess aside from dating a 20 year old, when he was 33, like he never did anything inappropriate. And I think like now that I'm way older, now that I'm 37, like it would be totally fine for me to date him even though he's 12 years, 13 years older. - Yes, yes. - Right, because we're both adults, right? Like we both experienced enough of life and been through life experiences and like, had forever. - You're sure of yourself. - You have confidence. - Yeah. And there's no way it can be used to manipulate you or something. - Like either consciously or subconsciously. - Yeah, exactly. - Right? It's like, even if he's not intending to use his experience and the fact that he's like older as a way to manipulate you, it's kind of like you almost subconsciously do it yourself. - Sure. - And I would say the business application here too is also, you know, at the workplace, if someone is much older, I think that can be reverse ageism in a way where we give deference and credibility to people who are older in the workforce just because they're older, not because they've proven it in a way that you're like, okay, they're super legit. So I think that's a little bit different depending on the industry that you work in, but if there is an engineer on your team who is a lot older, you're like, oh my God, I totally look up to this person or the like MD on your team, you're like, oh, just because they're older, they know better, not necessarily true, like stick to your own guns and know yourself and work on yourself to gain the confidence so that you guys can honestly be peers. - Okay, I didn't really think I was gonna tell that story, but I did, guys, for you. And so just to put, just to tie a bow on it, I would say that if you are in an age gap relationship and you're the younger person and you are in different stages of life, just know that the older person is gonna inherently have more financial power, more life experience, more emotional leverage, and that gives them sort of more power and leverage in the relationship, whether or not they actually exert it, that's always going to be the status quo of your relationship. - Yeah, and we're not saying that age gap relationships can never work, they can, but I think the biggest asterisk here is that the timing really matters more than the actual number itself. So age gap relationships tend to work better when both people are fully formed adults, both people have financial independence and both people have strong boundaries that they can uphold. - Hit 'em with the financial independence. - Yeah, right? I feel like that's really important, so you don't-- - Yes. - Feel like you are relying on someone else, especially when you're in a very vulnerable state. - And that's because you never wanna feel like you owe them something in relation to the financial things that they provide for you. Quick pause. One thing we've been hearing more and more is that tiger sisters is the group chat that you always wish you had. - Yeah, it's the group chat where someone's talking about venture capital, another person is talking about attachment issues, and then another person comes in and gives you the framework that completely changes how you think about your career. - Sounds like a great group chat, so subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube. And big news, we have a tiger sisters newsletter dropping soon. So sign up to get more group chat energy, the link is in the description. - No back to the show. - All right, lesson number three is don't date for money, date for track record. So Shari, can you share your thoughts on this? - Yeah, so a question we get a lot from our tiger fam is should you date for money? And it's a very icky, sticky subject, and you're like, "Ugh, how do I even approach this?" But the way that Jean and I think about that is like, "Yes, money is nice, because it affords you "to have a nice life with your partner, "and you guys can go on nice experiences and everything, "but it's not about the money, right? "It's about the person and their resilience, their ambition, "and if they were able to make a lot of money, that's fabulous, "but if they lost that money, would you still date them?" Because then they have a way inherently to make it back, and they have new ideas, and they're gonna figure out a way to grind and get back to where they were. When it comes to looking for a life partner, you want someone with the resilience and grit who can build the wealth with you, and not just someone who just has it. - Exactly, you wanna look for trajectory, not just current status, and of course this is tiger sisters, so we have researched to back this up. So last year in June, 2025, the National Library of Medicine published this really interesting study where they looked at 3,700 households, and they really wanted to understand how people cope with financial hardships. So what they found is that financial resilience, meaning someone's ability to adapt and recover from financial shocks, actually buffers the negative effects of economic setbacks. So in other words, people who are better at managing setbacks tend to stay happier and mentally healthier even during financial adversity. And so that's the type of person that you want standing behind you, whenever the next recession comes, because they will, right? Like we're living very long lives these days, and I feel like every 10 years something happens where it's like, this has never happened before in history. And so you wanna pick someone who can weather the storm with you, not just someone who happens to have a lot of money, because that is not necessarily a measure of character. - Yeah, yeah. - Honestly, if we're gonna go on this train of thought, just 'cause we have a lot of money, I'm like, if they are inheriting money, do they do anything to earn it? - Mm. - And a lot of times everyone knows there's a bunch of like children of billionaires who've gone off the deep end, much love to you, but like they are having a lot of trouble with money because they haven't had to have the grind and the challenges and the hardship to earn that money. So some could argue that's like not even good to have a lot of money unless you've earned it in a way that has shaped your character. - No, but seriously, it's not just like, I know you're saying billionaires because that's what's in the headlines, but even like multi-millionaires. - No, seriously, because a lot of these people I've encountered personally, what you realize is that they've built their life on being so dependent on that sort of money that they know is gonna come to them, but it always comes with stipulations, right? It's never totally free. No money is ever free. If someone tells you that, they're lying to you, honestly. And so even money that's coming from family has rules and stipulations around it. - Conditions. - And conditions and it can shape a person's life in a way that initially is not visible to you, but like once you get into a relationship with them and that you dig into it, you start to see, oh, the reason they're making this life decision is because of the money. So that is something that if you're dating someone who hasn't heard of it, or expects to have inherited wealth, that is something I would really, really dig into and truly examine. - Yeah, and I think we're putting all these anecdotes and research and stories in front of you. I think it's up to you to dive in deeper if you're having some questions in a relationship or you are dating someone who you're putting on a pedestal or maybe there's an age gap or if they do have money. It's up to you to ask yourself these questions and also observe. You can only learn more about another person's character when you are put into perhaps like a uncomfortable challenging situation where you have to bring something up with them or ask them further in question so you can understand how they would approach something. So it's up to you you're collecting data points. That's kind of how I think about it. It's just like if you can zoom out of like your own body and your head and you're like, okay, I'm a scientist and like, why do that person do this or why did they do that? Like you're collecting data points to better understand how you react to it and if it's something that you are okay with because it's all honestly it's all about you. And in a way that's like how do you make decisions that make you happy? I love that approach. Okay, so to wrap up here, Shari, what attributes should we look for in a partner if not just their bank account? So there's a couple that Jean and I wrote down. So the first one is resilience, second is discipline, also related to that is work ethic. The third is long-term thinking. Are they thinking past tomorrow, past a month? Are they thinking for the next years ahead? And the last one is the ability to rebuild after setbacks, which is similar to resilience and I would say discipline. So these are traits that you can only observe over time after being with someone and really putting, I don't know, a different hat on where you're like, how do I feel about this after you've seen their behavior? And I want to add just three more quickly. I want to say also loyalty, integrity and character. Well, I guess my response to loyalty is these hosent loyal. And also my other response is that might all, that might be your learning from the person who cheated on you. Yes, but I think it's a learning that can apply to people who have even never been cheated on, right? You want someone who's going to be loyal to you. Yes. But you've learned that after you were cheated on. I guess that's your right. There is a presumption there. The presumption is that you yourself are a loyal person. So if that's not an attribute that you consider to be super important, then it doesn't apply to you. But if you're kind of more similar to me, then it applies to you. Okay, lesson number four is don't shit where you eat. So Shuri, can you T.S. off? Okay, so this lesson is a tough one because it is a personal lesson from both Gene and me. Don't shit where you eat that saying exists for a reason. Because unfortunately we've both had to learn it the heartway. And workplace relationships can feel very convenient. You see that person every single day. You're potentially in a working environment together in meetings or whatever. It can feel fun until it's not. So you probably know what we're talking about because a third of US workers have dated a coworker at some point. That's what the society for human resource management says. And honestly, it might feel like a small intimate bubble when you're dating someone at work. But breakups, they don't stay inside a bubble. So what we've learned is that workplace relationships introduce three major risks. Power imbalance, reputation consequences, and emotional fallout affecting your job. And not to mention workplace relationships are one of the top sources of complaints for HR. According to a 2024 SHRM survey, 68% of HR professionals identified perceptions of favoritism or unfair treatment surrounding workplace romances as a primary concern. While 61% cited potential conflicts of interest as a key issue. So I have a personal anecdote about a workplace relationship. This was my first job out of school. It's someone who worked at the same company as me. And we weren't part of the same team. We actually worked on two very different projects and different organizations in the company and had different roles. But I would see this person in common areas. So like the cafe or even the lobby. Like I would see this person and we were dating. And so when things weren't going so well in our relationship, it was kind of awkward. Because I would have to see them at the workplace where I wanted to like focus on doing well in my career. But then I also had a second, you know, a second thing that was distracting where it was like, this person is here, oh my gosh, are they at the cafe at the same time? I am. Are they grabbing lunch at the same time? Are we getting lunch? It was just a whole host of like secondary, interstiary thoughts when I really felt like my focus at the time should have been and wanted to be on building my career. So it was a very confusing time. And which is why I think especially because I was pretty young in my career. It was my first job. It was their first job. It was very confusing and I don't think it was handled in the best way because we were so young. And so I just worn against shitting where you eat at the workplace. It can be very distracting, especially if it's a very deep and personal relationship. And do you really want to be that distracted when you're at a place to build your career? So a call back to the age gap lesson is that timing really matters. I think if you are more further along in your career and more mature, like the both of you guys are and you're working at the same place, it can work and you can discuss what will happen if you guys do break up. In a way, it's kind of like a prenup when you're getting into a workplace relationship. But if you are on the younger side, things can get just messy and dramatic and you're at the workplace and you don't really have a space for that. So the flip side of this love lesson is that when applying to business, one thing you need to think about is that it may seem like an amazing idea at the time. But you don't necessarily want to always work with someone that you're already friends with. So Sheree, can you give us some examples of this? Yeah, I think both in the personal love aspect and then also the professional work aspect, the main lesson here is that you have to be prepared for the consequences if these relationships or friendships don't work out. So I know even with a lot of co-founders, you think it's a really good idea to start working with your best friend because you guys are super close and you have perhaps a shorthand or a lot of harmony when you're working together. Yes, I think there's a lot of benefit, but then you also have to think about the downside too because if it doesn't work out, we've seen time and time again, a lot of friendship breakups over starting a company. And one of my best friends has told me that she will not hire one of her friends or best friends to work with her just because there's so much risk and she values that friendship so much, she would never want business or professional stuff to get in between them. And I think also just in pop culture too, we've seen a lot of friendship breakups too between two co-founders when they're super tight and everything is going great. But when things aren't going well, how do they work out things and will it work out in their friendship? Maybe not. And so I think it's a really good lesson that like don't shit where you eat. Business gets messy, business gets, you know, hard. Yeah, and I think that some of the reasons why your friendship can be so strong can be the exact reasons why you shouldn't necessarily work together. Because I think like what Shari said about like when you are best friends or when you are friends at all, you have like a sort of a sort of shorthand or you have some inherent level of trust. A lot of times that can sort of be applied to business and you can impute or assume that you're on the same level of understanding about something. But and that can lead you to have much sort of looser contracts or just be like, oh, we're on the same page because we're always on the same page about everything. So I'm sure they're going to do this project the same way that I would do this project. So then you're kind of like lulled into this default of maybe not defining things as clearly as you would with someone who you don't know professionally, right? Or who you don't know at all. And if you think about the phrase, it's not personal, it's business. When it's your friend, it can never be true, right? It'll always be personal even when you're bringing them into business. So dating a coworker can work or working with a friend can work, but you just have to be prepared for the consequences because this is what Tiger Sisters is all about. It's like we say finances are emotional. Love can be strategic work and professional stuff can be messy. So you just have to be prepared for whatever outcome might be. Okay, so our final lesson is something you might have seen before. Maybe experience yourself. If so, I'm sorry, but it's something that I have personal experience with and Jean does too. And that is love bombing. Alright, be where the love bomber guys. They are running rampant through the streets. Sometimes you can tell who they are. Sometimes you can. I have a story to share with you guys. Alright guys. So this was after I had gotten out of a very long term relationship eight plus years as you guys most people know. And I met this guy. He was super charming, so fun, so playful, really hot. And he was courting me and it was a super fun experience and I would say everything kind of about our experience of getting to know each other felt really heightened. And I think his personality also was that he very much like wore his heart on his sleeve and he is just kind of a very grandiose and expressive person in the first place. And so I am very much a person that reciprocates. like kind of like what I get. And so I remember I think the first week that we started dating, I think we went on a date on Sunday and it lasted like eight hours or something. It was like a super long date. And then a few days later, he texted me and he was like, "Hey, like I'm in your area, like I just finished basketball practice, like can I come over and say hi?" Or like blah, blah, blah. And I was like, "Okay, like I guess." And I think for me, it was because I had just come out of a long-term relationship. So I was so used to having like a ton of points of contact, right? Like I used to live with my ex-fiance, obviously, so I was used to seeing him every single day. So I didn't, I didn't clock that it was like a little bit weird to go on a first date with someone and then have them be like, "Hey, like I'm here, like I'm right near your house." Like a couple days later and be like, "Let's hang out again, like just to kind of like drop in." And so that was kind of like how the whole thing kicked off and that really set the tenor for the entire relationship. And it was this like super full-on, like truly like love bombing situation. And I don't think it was even meant to be like minute-bilative on his end. I think that's kind of just people's personalities sometimes. And it's kind of up to you to define your own boundaries and to actually be aware of it. I think I was just totally unaware of it because, well, I guess also I was so new to dating. Like I had a dated in like a decade or something. Yeah. Also, I feel like doing a multi-hour date as like the first or second date is a love bombing red flag. Yeah, see, I also wasn't aware that that was not normal because I was so used to like hanging out with my ex all the time. And when we went on a date, it would be 24 hours long. You know, because that's what happens when you live with someone. Yeah, I think when you're first getting to know someone, it's the moments of like a partner or the moments of pause where your guys are not together, that you can kind of back off and then be able to evaluate how you feel about someone. Mm-hmm. I think the other thing I would add to my story for context is that this person that I was dating, I think he's just also very much naturally a salesperson, right? Like that is his personality. And one thing he told me is that he was like, I'm a people pleaser. Like I want other people to be happy. And so I think like those two aspects combined. And just like his personality, he just drove the relationship in a way that was like very intense from the very beginning. And it was intense the entire time. I only learned that fact later on as I saw him interact with more people who are not me, right? So as he met some of my friends or like I met some of his friends and I brought him to parties and I saw him interacting with other people, I was like, oh, he is just a natural salesperson. He is just an extremely charismatic guy. Like he wants everyone to love him and everyone does love him. And so once I was able to see that context of how he exists in the world, then I had more information to apply to my own interactions with him. So then I could be like, oh, this is kind of his default in life. Yeah. I feel like a lot of it is observing and gathering information and going into the situation very eyes wide open. Mm-hmm. Okay, so Shari, what are some methods if you find yourself to be in a love bombing situation? Yeah. Look, it can be really hard because I think once you are in it in the thick of it and you are being loved bombed, it can feel really good in the moment. Like it feels amazing. You're like, wow, this person is devoting so much time and energy and effort into courting me. Like it feels so good. You're like, I'm the best person in the world. Right. Which is why I think it's really important in taking a pause and having that type of part. So you can like, you know, get on out of it and take a breath and be like, oh, okay. What the heck is actually going on here? So if you do feel like you are being loved bombed, the most important thing is knowing your own boundaries and having boundaries. Whether it's physical boundaries or time boundaries or scheduling boundaries, mental, emotional boundaries. Like no, I will not talk about this topic right now because I just don't feel like we are there yet emotionally. Yeah. And so having very strong boundaries around what you will and will not engage in. Because I think a lot of people are very charming. They can be salespeople like you mentioned. And that part, I'm like, very susceptible to that. I'm like, oh, you love me. Like, okay, that's great. You're obsessed with me. I love this. You're like, as you should. As you should. And so, and like, I know myself, like I seek a lot of validation externally or I have. For many reasons that we will not get into having to do with traumatic immigrant parents growing up. But anyways, like, I think, since I know that about myself, I need to go into a relationship or a friendship or any sort of partnership, knowing myself and knowing my boundaries first. Otherwise, if you don't have that, you can kind of be thrown into, you know, love bombing and you can go whichever way the other person is leading the relationship. I think that's such smart advice because applying that and diagnosing my own relationship that I just told you guys about, I think the crux behind my mistake in the relationship is that I went into the relationship with miscalibrated boundaries, right? Like, I applied boundaries that were relevant to the last relationship I was in, which was an eight year long relationship where I was engaged to the person. So I applied those sort of boundaries to this new person that I had never met before and was newly dating for the first time. And I was giving the sort of like leeway and like way more lax boundaries that require five, six, seven, eight years of trust to build up and like eight years of understanding to get to that level. But I kind of like gave him those boundaries or like lack of boundaries from the very beginning. - Yeah. - So that's a lesson for me, from me, to you guys. - It's kind of like people, I've seen like a funny TikTok or Instagram meme where it's just like, you just haven't unlocked this level of my personality. And you are on level one, you haven't gotten to level two, you haven't earned or shown, you know, your loyalty, you're a trustworthy person. You are, you know, ambitious, resilient and you will back me up like you haven't earned or unlocked like level two, three, four or five yet. And so I think having very clear boundaries helps you avoid the love bomber. I like that phrase too, that phrase of using levels. And it's kind of an interesting way if you wanted to really do a mini exercise or like think through it, be like, what are the different levels? Like think through it yourself ahead of time and like preset. Like what are the levels of boundaries or like behavior that I think is acceptable for someone that I'm going on a first date with, for someone that I've dated, gone on seven dates with, for six months in, et cetera. So that could be something that's really helpful to do ahead of time. So in the business or professional world, if someone is overselling or overhyping something, we would just normally be pretty suspicious. We'd be like, okay, you're making all these promises about a product, prove it or show me or where's the free trial here? So why don't we apply that to our romantic or our love lives? Why aren't we more discerning with our time, our emotions, our bodies and everything else? Because once we're love bombed in our romantic lives, I think a lot of the critical thinking and prefrontal cortex goes out the window, but we need to be more thoughtful in discerning there. So remember, Tiger Fam, in business and in love, charisma is not the same thing as credibility. The people that you want to trust are the ones that build slowly and consistently over time. So how are we feeling, Tiger Fam? After this episode, are you triggered? Are you excited? Are you questioning the relationship you're in? I don't know. Well, just remember that every relationship that you have is just more data points for you. It's data points on where your boundaries are, when you'll speak up, and there are lessons that you can apply to the next relationship or business relationship that you're in. So if today's episode saves even one person from repeating our mistakes, then we can finally say, "I'm so fucking grateful for my ex." So thanks for watching guys. And let us know if there's any lessons that we did not cover that you think should have made it into the top five that you guys have learned. Because all of this is based on our personal experience and our personal traumas. But I know you guys have tons of experience out there, and it's really worth us learning from you guys as well. So please, please, please, please comment. Also, please, please, please, subscribe. And we will see you soon. Alrighty guys, we'll see you next time. Bye. (upbeat music)