Lessons from 40 year Veteran Dino Cardelli

Welcome to the Produce Industry Podcast! You're weekly download on current events, trends, market reports, and community discussions. Join us each week from Tampa, Florida as we cover all aspects of the produce supply chain industry. Ladies and gentlemen, here's your host, my boy, The Voice of the Produce Industry Patrick Kelly. Hey, Produce People. Welcome back to the Produce Industry Podcast. I'm your host, Patrick Kelly, also known as Lil Citrus. Come to you live right here in the Ag Life Media Studios in Tampa, Florida. Brought to you by the Produce Industry Network, everyone. Super excited to be here. As always, week in, week out. As you know, favorite word is always super excited because we're bringing you in-depth knowledge. The download of what's happening across the global fresh produce supply chain. Okay, everyone, and that's what I'd love to do. I'd like to bring the things that even I don't know that I get to learn directly to you. Now, today, we're kicking off a two-part series with someone who has been a friend, a mentor, an industry powerhouse for over 15 years. He's going to say a lot longer, but that is Mr. Dino Car Deli, everyone. Okay, and if you don't know him, you are going to get a dose of him over the next two episodes. And I'm really excited to have him. I'll tell you what, before we even made this possible, this podcast is possible by, it took over a year or so. I mean, maybe even two, Dino came to the studio. We said, let's do a podcast. The podcast is at the right time. I don't know. We finally got it. It's here and it's going to be a two-parter because there's that much fun we are about to jump into. And before we bring Dino on, and he's sitting right next to me now, everyone. So he's not even in the green room. He's sitting next to me. We're going to hit a few company and community announcements before we get jam-packed over the next three months. We've picked up in just a couple weeks. We have fruit attraction, October 4th through the 6th in Madrid. One of the most international must-go-to shows in our industry. And no, we will not be on the floor. We will not be doing interviews. But we are still taking part in some of the clients that we have over there. And it's a must-go-to show. One of the biggest shows next to Fruit of the Jessica Berlin. The IFPA Global Show, which is also just right around the corner. October 14th through the 16th. IFPA Global Producing Floral Show right here in Orlando, Florida, the big one, the entire industry coverages. And it's converging together all on one platform. What we do in live interview is booth number 600 with noble citrus, everyone. So stop by, walk through, come check it out, and celebrate with us 100 years. Of service for the produce industry for noble citrus, which is amazing. I can't wait to have you. We've got some cool, fun giveaways as well. And again, everyone, think about that. A century of serving fresh produce and the citrus industry and ever changing citrus industry. So shout out to noble citrus, everyone. And then the water for all hike, November 20th through the 23rd. I'm headed back to the Dominican Republic, blue missions and continental fresh. This year's hike is going to be bigger than ever. Why? Because every year we make it better. Okay, we're raising awareness and funds for clean water, access to clean water in the Dominican Republic. And we are going next level. This is my fifth year, everyone. And I'm super excited already. I've already started the training. I'm breaking in my new boots and just ready to share more updates and bringing everybody together. And hey, if you can't come, go on my LinkedIn page. We have a say a link that you could actually donate. So whether it's $5 or $100 or whatever you feel comfortable with, all those funds go directly. Okay, to a town in need. Okay. And then in PowerFresh, big shout out to my guys over in PowerFresh. The industry's leading platform for modernizing your produce, merchandising and department. So if you're a retailer looking to elevate your fresh department, reduce shrink and make smarter decisions with real-time data. And PowerFresh is the partner for you. Okay. That's what you want in your corner. They help retailers understand exactly what's happening in their departments from pricing, assortments, performance and profitability. Sounds like everything you want in your department. So when PowerFresh brings that clarity, consistency and confidence in fresh produce and just fresh overall. So everyone look out for in PowerFresh and get ready. Okay, because things are changing fast. And I can't tell you even this conversation, the Dino and I are going to have together of how fast the industry is changing. And I'm excited. So who is Dino though? You might be thinking to yourself, I've never heard of the name before. That's okay. Maybe he hasn't been in the fresh part of the industry. Okay, maybe he's been on another side of the industry, the juice side. Okay, everyone. We're going to talk about that. And Dino, to me, is probably one of the most experienced and globally connected supply chain and procurement professionals in the juice ingredients and agronomic world. Okay, over 35 years of hands on expertise, not just corporate, but grower, processor and see sweet experience. Okay. And he's worked for some of the biggest companies in the world. That's right. Son or trajectory, hepsico, the Coca-Cola company, he's a tropical dole. I mean, many others that he has worked with, worked for or worked aside. Okay, he's lived and worked and managed projects in over 50 countries, speaks fluent Spanish and has led strategic operational tactical and in direct procurement initiatives across the entire value chain. Or as I would say, the globe, okay. So really just an amazing guy. And his most recent role was that VP of supply chain and procurement at Son or trajectory. And today he is the principal of the procurement framework and supply chain company based in Fort Lauderdale. So we're going to learn about that supply chain company and the procurement framework. So he's providing consulting education and interim staffing coaching and just all around amazing education. He also spoke at the World Juice Summit in Antwerp in 2023, breaking down the intersection of supply chain and technical operations and post pandemic environment, everyone. So why don't we do this? Let's take a quick break and let's get Dino mic'd up and ready to go. So everyone, we will be right back. Something big is shining onto the citrus eye and it's pure sun rays. This summer, sun rays is expanding beyond grapes and mandarin to bring you a full citrus lineup. Lemons, limes, oranges, grapefruit and tangilos. All under one radiant brand. That means less brand clutter, cleaner shelves and a fresh, streamlined looking stores, more sunshine, less noise. And the impact goes further. Through its partnership with Save the Children, the sun rays brand extension multiplies the good. So every snack can help make a difference. You'll taste the same sun rays quality you know and love now shining across every citrus variety. Plus, with one simple scan, you can explore it all. Where your citrus was grown, what varieties inside, how to discard the packaging, creative ways to snack, and more. Get ready to snack with impact in a bigger, more flavorful way this summer with sun rays. Dino, welcome to the podcast studio, my friend. Thank you. It's great to have you. It's taken a while, but I think we're ready to have some fun. Now you've been here a couple times. Yeah. And last time we made juice. And you were testing me on my bricks knowledge of your harassing me. What is this 11 bricks? What is it? Yeah, it's like give me the sugar levels break it down for me right now. If you're an expert, you know, but there's yeah, the people will tell you one thing that you can't deny is fresh juice. Yes. Am I right? No, there's nothing like it. There's nothing like it in a nice glass to a cold glass. Hey, you know, my dad and I went to brunch. What a week or two ago. And he asked for some orange juice. Yeah. I brought him a plastic cup and he was like, I need a glass real glass. It's sure enough. They brought him back that chilled glass. Like he was about to drink a chilled glass of beer and he got that chilled glass of orange juice. So it's great to have you, man. And again, it's taken a little bit to just figure out how to set up an episode and talk about this. You know, but going back, right? Like for us, right? Like we met almost geez, 12, 12, 13 years ago, and I was a young kid running around the Central Valley, buying really juice eliminations, and I used to deal with sun orchard for many years. My father dealt with sun orchard for many years. And I just remember one day I was calling, this is back in the days when you had to call like the actual shed and everything to actually get someone to answer. or I mean, cell phones were as big back then as they are now. And I couldn't get old of anybody. - Right. - Right. - And then? - Do you know Cardioli jumps in? - I gave you the call. - Right. - There's some guy named Pat Kelly looking for you. - I was just got fruit. I need to talk to that guy, we're extracting. - That was fun though, man. - Yeah, we had a good time. - We had a few years, as I was told you before, it's like we had done business with Sonoracher for so long and we knew the business and what you guys needed on the ingredients level. And, but I'll tell you, you tested us a little bit differently than some of the previous procurement people on what you wanted, how to test it when it came to lemons too. You know, that taught me a lot about how the acid levels, what kind of acid you wanted, how it would affect the juice. - Where were you getting it from? - Right, what locations, what's packing houses? And I harass you a little bit about, you know, is it gonna be coastal, is it gonna be central valley? - Yep, which guys, you and I used to go out and visit a few of the places. - And it makes a difference though, doesn't it? - Yeah. - It really makes a difference of where it comes from. - Yep. - Okay, especially in the oils, right? You get a much higher price on the coastal oil than you do some of the other locations. - Versus the desert? - Versus the desert, yeah, yeah, yeah. - We love those desert lemons, don't we? - Yeah, we do though, we do. - We do, I mean it was a filler, but then again, you taught me a lot when you came to that ingredients, like what's the difference between bringing in Mexico, right? We would always fight and say, no, we need this, we need this and you would say, yeah, but if I can bring in from Mexico and I can supply my juice content, blend my juice, right? Bring up the fresh fruit, right? - Yep. - And even processed, it made the process different too, right? And then it made our buying techniques different because then I could go out to my growers and tell them, well, this is why we need it. - And this is the format we need it, right? - I mean, you and I kind of changed things around, we used to always bring them in in the big gondolas, I guess I call them. - Remember, yeah. - With the tri-wall bins and stuff like that. - When I were the first ones to do the tri-wall bins, and one of the reasons you actually came up with the idea is let's do tri-walls and then what we ended up doing is actually storing the tri-walls. I don't know if you remember, we used to put the tri-walls in the cold rooms, right? And so then that gave us the ability that when the gondolas or the trailers weren't available, we'd go to the warehouse and bring them out and we dump them. And that, and the fruit quality was always pretty good, in those tri-walls. - We did our best. - You did your best. - I was out inspecting those loads firsthand. - Oh yeah, I know, that was one of my things. Remember, I would tell you, I'm gonna put eyes on it, right? I'm gonna make sure that I go there, cut some fruit, and people. I actually told this to someone. - You used to sell me pictures of the cut fruit. - I did, yeah. - People, the packing house, you used to think I was crazy back in the days, they'd be like, this is juice fruit, man. Why are you doing so much work for juice fruit? - Yeah. - And I would be going, what do you mean? - Yeah. - A client is a client, a customer to customer. - Yeah. - So I think we had some fun in those early days, and I can tell you just, we've kept in contact this whole time. I mean, remember I went to work for Robinson Fresh. - Yeah, yeah. We had some good, some interesting opportunities there. - There was actually, right? And then you, I ended up leaving Robinson, started in my own deal again, but you dealt with my brother Chris. - Yeah. - For pretty much was my previous company then he started his own company. - Yeah. - I kind of do in the same packing houses, the same type deal. And again, it was, it was fun, right? - And it's always been fun. I mean, we used to banter back and forth. You know, you'd say this price, I'd say that price, and then it was like, okay, let's meet in the middle. - Right? - Yeah. - What's best for the grower? - Well, you always tell me, right? I got to charge you a little more, because my grower needs some help. - Yeah. - We usually came through. - And we dealt with a lot of growers that you had not even dealt with, right? - Well, that was the whole reason, right? So we dealt with a couple, you know, two or three of the big brokers out there, right? And we all know who they are. And I'm gonna mention they names. But they were good guys. - They were great guys. - They're great guys. They have their, they have their locations, but you always came in with the niche, right? And we were always able to fit you in. And I always wanted to help you because you were the one that kind of created the sanity in the market, right? So even though maybe it was a penny higher, maybe it was a penny lower, but per pound, but you were always there and we always could rely on you and you always delivered when you had to. - Yeah, I can tell you our rejection rate was probably less than one percent, right? I mean, because we did our, we put the work in to make sure you guys fun. Even if it was juice fruit, everybody else would throw whatever into the juice for bananas, we make sure to that. So, you know, do you know one thing I appreciate it is your ability to break down these complex supply chains though, right? - I remember the spreadsheets that you would show me. - Right, man. - Yeah, you remember. - Yeah, we would send me spreadsheets and some of these are spreadsheets, you know, I wouldn't even understand, but I was like, he's teaching you. He's showing you a process here and I think that was the most important. So, it's, the ability for you to do that was amazing. You've operated it and been in 50 plus countries with your knowledge, right? - Back in the old days, yeah, and growers. - When I was working for Coke, right? - I was a grower. - Grower sign. - In the Dominican Republic, that's as a special, special heart to me. - And me too. - Yeah, and I used to grow melons in Oswa. I was, you know, on the coast and I had a melon farm, started my own melon farm. I was working for Dole, but I put up, you know, the company put up the money and believed in me and we grew seedless watermelons, cantaloupes, honeydews. And it was a, you know, really taught you what the grower, that's why I have a rule of affinity towards growers and I understand them. - Yeah. - And, yeah, I did that for a year and then I was operations manager for Pineapple, as you know. - Yep. - So I was running the Pineapple business for Dole back in Costa Rica. And we had a Pineapple farm in Dominican Republic because everybody knows. And I did contract manufacturing. I was out roaming around Latin America looking for fruit. - I remember you when I did Pineapples too. And I remember, I think that's, maybe one of the reasons when we connected so much to you is we had a couple. I think you've told me this one time like, you know, like a Patrick, you're like a little younger version of me back in this. - Exactly. - And I appreciate that because, you know, one of the things we've always laughed about too is like the kiss in the ring type deal, right? Remember, we've talked about this. And back in, I'm gonna go back in my days 'cause I can say that, right? 'Cause I can say go back 20 years in this industry just like you can, right? 20 years ago, we were told though, this is what you do. - Yeah. - Be quiet, do your work. And make sure that you don't impress the guys, but make sure you're accessible. Make sure you're showing them you're putting in the hard work, right? And listen, that's what I was doing. And I think that's why we got along so well too, because I was always reaching out. I was always hungry for knowledge, you know what I mean? And that's what I love so much about you, man. - I think about those spreadsheets. You made me think about something. Remember the spreadsheet I had that had the price and then the yield. - Yeah. - Yeah, so I, you know, what was the difference, right? If we were gonna get so many gallons per ton, and I can pay you a little more if you make sure that you give me the higher yield, right? So you had to send me the best quality fruit, and that was your job. And you, we had a good time about, that's why the tri-walls worked so well as we could actually control it. So I may be able to give you a penny or two more, but it was also because we were getting higher yields. - Yeah, and before the food safety laws kicked in where you couldn't do the tri-wall exchange, remember? - Yeah, yeah. - You were able to switch some pallets around, get some recycling, and things like that. And we've seen a lot of shifts, man, over the last, I would say, you go like 15 years, 10 years, and five years, but there's been so much changes in the supply chain, right? Especially on the procurement side, am I right? - Yeah, yeah. It's completely different. The industry has consolidated, right? Used to be, I mean, you even know this from the produce industry, right? I mean, used to be, the growers didn't have a lot of knowledge. So the brokers were kind of like their only representative. But when I was growing melons back in the old days, I mean, you'd have eight or 10 different growers. Now there's like two or three. Same thing in Mexico, and you know the Mexican business as well as anybody. You know, it used to be a lot of small little processors. Now there's like four or four big ones, and that's it. So the consolidation is taking place. - That's okay. - And it's, you know, you got a few of the processors over in the Kalima area that are growing the lines, then you come to the coast, and then you've got three or four big guys along the coast. And it's consolidated in the supply chains. A lot of its technology, right? It's the ability to transport juice in order to get it to the market on time. I was just having a conversation with one of the people that were looking to take my course, and we'll talk about that in a little bit. And I said, you know, one of the things I used to always look at was, and you and I've talked about this, was the, when I was buying lines, was the fresh market for lines. - Oh yeah. - And when the fresh market for lines goes crazy, I get nervous, right? Because it's like $80 a box, that's crazy. - And I'm nervous because my growers are taking, you know, the eliminations. And what if I don't, you know, what if the market go crazy? They're packing everything that you possibly can. You know, it's still within grade, right? They're gonna be, they're gonna, they're gonna respect it. But all of a sudden, everything's going to the market, and there's no juice. So what do you do? So then you gotta start thinking about, you know, counter seasonal production, right? So counter seasonal meaning you gotta go to Brazil for a look for lime juice. So that's part of when you talk about the procurement strategies, that's where you begin to think about how does the supply chain change? And now, you know, with the advent of, you know, lemons, we did the same thing with lemons, right? You and I did a lot of lemons together on from California a lot, but I was then supplementing that out of Mexico through two or three of my big growers. But I also had to think about, what about the lemons that are gonna come out of Spain? - And I remember you teaching me that too. - Yeah, so I, yeah, we would go to Spain after a couple the other. bigger news. Now what's happening, and I know you've been following it is Egypt. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's, you know, you got, you got a lot of the big Italian guys. I think agromarius in there, right? Yeah. And so, you know, they're going into Egypt. I was in, I was in Morocco back in 95 when I was working for Coke. We went down, we went to Morocco to go look at some, some juice plants and they, they were in the infancy, right? I mean, this is like 30 years ago, right? Right. So it was in the infancy of that. And we were roaming around Morocco looking for, for a juice plant to work with, it's out of Morocco, because there was also all sorts of tax breaks and stuff like that, you know, Coke, Coke and all their tax break things. But we couldn't put it together. But yeah, now the industry and I, you start looking at, you start looking at Egypt, you start looking at Turkey, you start, you know, Turkey's, Turkey's coming on and you've got Spain and you got Italy. And, you know, that whole, that whole, there was just, I was just at the, the juice conference, the ICBC and they, they had a great presentation on is the Mediterranean, the next citrus belt. So it's a question. Yeah, it's, it's, it's changing and you got Argentina. So a lot of the stuff I was talking about, you know, although I buy juice, I mean, I was watching the fresh market as, as well as you. So you start talking about is there a big crop in, in Argentina? Okay, I like that. They don't like that. But I like the fact that it's going to be more eliminations, right? I agree. And you know, if there's a lot of eliminations, there's going to be a lot of oil. Right. So what is it going to do to my oil price? So you start looking at all the different, the different aspects of it. And even at things like we, you and I've talked about, you know, you have a different mentality when you're in, you're in the fresh or even in the juice side. Oh, 100%. So one of the things is, is I, I try to teach my, the buyers that were working for me was, you know, when I see, when I see a tropical storm in the Gulf, you know, I start thinking where's it going to go? Is it going to go to the citrus belt? Yeah. So I, you know, you know, I, there, there was an earthquake a few years ago in Kalima in the Kalima area. First thing I could did is I call my supplier, were you affected? It's a different mentality. It is. And again, citrus is a global, I'd say it's a global production, right? And you brought it up Egypt. I mean, hack my, our buddies over at Noble, right? And they're even growing their juicy crunch tangerine over in Egypt. I didn't know that with some of the first shipments heading to Canada. Wow. How crazy is that? Yeah. So if you look at it, I mean, just look at like the Noble breeding program, right? They're working to get that juicy crunch tangerine into other countries, right? Because they know what you, like you just said, right? That each region has its own identity. Yep. And again, it's, it's, it's different, right? So we're looking at Spain. Yeah. Right? Egypt, South Africa. Yeah. California. Well, they, wait, you know, you started looking at California, even South Africa. You know, it's, it's always a challenge because you don't know about the geopolitical issues, right? So sometimes you, you, you just got to be a little careful in terms of what's happening to geopolitically. Yeah. And I think today in today's world, because we're going to talk about juice knowledge in, in part two. Yeah. Okay. Because everyone is the two part series, but that's a juice knowledge. It's like saying it right there. Like you've got to have the knowledge to understand all of this, too, right? You can't just jump in and all the sudden know these things, right? And I think that that's where in today's world, we have so much accessibility to everything, but we're not using it the right way. We're not getting the right education we need because we think, Oh, we'll use technology. Oh, we'll have a spreadsheet that'll tell us what we need it to be at, or we need our acid to be here, or just go buy it at this price and this size or this, right? Because that's what's just, what's told. Now, the evolution of produce procurement, obviously five, 10, 15 years back, each five years, I feel as rapidly changed. And then the last three years, it's changed even more, everyone. Okay. So that evolution from procurement, you talked about in the 90s, right? How has it changed for you, right? From the 90s to the 2000s. Okay. And then the 2000s that rapidly just, I mean, from the last three to five years, I mean, I say give that, give that short elevator pitch, right? Because I know we could be trust. Everyone, Dino's got a, is a world of information and we could talk about this for hours, him and I, right? But I want you to know that like if the everyday produce professional listening, it's just maybe getting in the industry today or been in the industry for the last five, six years. So 95, I was working for Coke. All right. So I really, I was, but I was actually working for Coke. I was ahead of global procurement. So I was buying juice back then. I was ahead of the whole operations worldwide. So I was spending all my time. So the, the, the evolution, if you're talking about, you know, change. There was still quite a few growers, quite a few growers and processors. So my job was to go out there and actually I used to meet with the growers and I used to meet with the processors and, you know, we talk about fresh and the, the different aspects. But there's quite a few of the guys out there. But when then you get into the early, early 2000s, I kind of came back into the industry. I did a lot of external consulting. I worked for Merck Pharmaceutical, doing supply chain stuff. But I really came back into the industry back in 2015 when I started with Sun Orchard, where I really got heavy. So I worked for Coke from 1995 to 2003. I went into the bottling system. But I was always part of the supply chain and actually working until I left the corporate. I was always involved with juice, juice and ingredients. And I was always watching the, the fresh markets and what was going on because I was going to affect the juices I was buying for the company. We used to use a lot of juice inside the Coca-Cola products outside of minute made. Got it. A lot of people don't know that. No, I don't think they did it at all. I think they think Coke is Coke in minute and minute. Right. No, but we used a lot of apple juice. Yeah. So you'd have the apple showlies, right? You know those. You've been over there to Germany. So those were all, you know, bought by our teams, right? And then you would go back and through those. And then we were doing a lot of the Fanta drinks. Fanta drinks had a lot of juice in them. And I can remember the, I don't know if I ever told you the story, but we were, we would watch the the summers in Europe. Summer got hot. We knew Fanta was going to be Fanta and Lyft, right? Where, you know, it's going to be a big product. So the, so the, we were, we were short on, on lemon. So I, I called the supplier actually a guy who I dealt with when I was back at Sun Orchard. And I said, we need a, we need two container loads of, of lime juice. And we need it now. And he's like, well, I can't, I got the juice, but how I get to, we're going to, we're going to get a 747. It'll be, it'll be a Mexico City tomorrow. Go get your stuff and put it on the plane. Boom. Boom. It came over. I mean, that's the value of, of, of a company like Coca Cola. Yeah. But the demand went up. And we were able to get it. We, we, you know, we slacked it on the way. And then when it got to the plant, they were able to go right into production. Now fast forwarded to 2000s. Okay. The 2000, I wasn't really in the business in, in produce in the 2000s. I was, I was doing the consulting. After I left, after I left Coke, I went into, let me see, I wanted to Coke. And what did I do? I was doing, I was doing consulting for Merck and those guys. Got you. You said that. And then so then we met in 2015, 2015 when I joined, when I joined, when I joined, when you joined some orchard. That's when I really came back into the, the ingredients. Yeah. And the ingredients in the juice side. And it changed even more though from, from 2000 to 2015. That 15 years spread right there. Yes. And what, what I really think is is that, you know, California, at, at the time, when you, when I got together, I mean, Florida still had fruit, right? Florida was still a processing operation. Yeah. And then, you know, in the last three years, I mean, after the hurricanes, it was, it was a bit of a challenge for Florida. But, you know, that change, the grower, the grower mix, you know, the processor mix, all that, all that stuff at a dramatic, you know, impact last five years, last seven, five years, Southern garden citrus closed down, right? One of the largest independent processors. And now if we, like you and I were just talking before the, before the, the podcast, I mean, California is the dominant citrus location. Yeah, it is. Right. So it was like 80. It was like 80%. You know, you look at the numbers 80, 80% versus 20%. Where years ago, it was the exact opposite. Well, maybe not the exact opposite. But there was a lot of cartons, right? There was a lot of cartons. But then they were going to fresh and then you got naval, which is really not a, unless you, you know, debittered the naval for, for juice, which is guys out there to do it. There's guys out there that do it, right? And that, we know them, we know them, yeah, actually. And it's a good juice. It is. Right. It's a great juice. Great. But it changed it around. And so, you know, when you and I were, we're working together back doing the fresh, there still was that 85, 80 to 85% is going to go fresh. And the rain 20% was left over and you and I used to sit and we'd calculate, okay, of the 20%, how much are you going to get? And which processors are going to be there? And who can you work with? So we did a lot of those types of discussions. And now it's, you know, and there's also been some major changes too if in terms of a new entrance, right? So you got Chick-fil-A processing their own oranges or their own lemons, right? They buy a lot of lemons now. They're huge, right? And they disrupted the market when they first came out. Oh, yeah. Because, you know, if you're, if you're so in lemonade, you know, if you're, if you're your own processor and you're so in lemonade in the store, you can pay a little more. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're the, you're direct to the retail, you're direct to the consumer, right? directed to the consumer. And it kind of changed the industry. The other thing that happened to back in 2020 is remember we, you know, we had we had the COVID and right before the COVID after the COVID. I left sun orchard back in 23. And you had a lot of these programs with the USDA. Oh yeah. And even even even changing the mix. So you had the guys put in the uglies, you know, and I think you were one of the pioneers in that, weren't you? Yeah, remember we did those like, I don't recall. You know, when I was at Robinson, we had like a misfits program. The misfits. That's right. But that was out of Canadian company. But it was, it was more or less like if we can use the ugly produce, yeah, but they were called ugly back then. Yeah, yeah. But you, you, you and your guys actually change that change the dynamic. And I'm like, they're shipping, they're shipping misfits. And you'd, you'd bag them in a bag. I remember, yeah, I remember all this time. I still have that bag out in my office. Oh yeah, you'd put like three or four different ones in a bag. And then you'd put it, and I'm like, the key's taken all my fruit, man. It's so true. It's so true. Well, and I think that's what it has really framed, you know, the approach, right? And what we're going to lead into next is everyone, we're going to start wrapping up this episode because this two part series, we want to keep it under an hour total. But that's how it's really framed the international framework of buying oranges citrus for, for juicing, right? And also the way people do it. It's not just going out to the packing house anymore and just buying an elimination. No, it's not. It really isn't now. It's part of the process. Yep. It's a hundred percent part of the process, but it's not all of the process. And back then, 20 years ago, legitimately, that's all we did. It's like, just go to the packing houses, check the bins, right? Oh, do you need a juice truck, send the juice truck, boom, boom. Okay. And then once it was gone, it was like, well, whatever it is, it is my friend. Yeah. I think back in the days, the juice company was actually would just accept rots all the time. And they would grade through that. Yeah, you have to, yeah, you have to grade through them, right? That's totally different. Totally different. Totally different aspect. Now, as we start to set up for, for number two, part two, everyone, we're going to talk a little bit about, you know, what it means to manage supply chains, right? For big brands, right? And how we're going to do that. And we're also going to talk about your juice knowledge program. Yes. Okay. This is an education platform. First ever, that is nowhere in the industry, right? I think guys, some guys are a little mad that he's given some, some intellectual property out here, but it's my intellectual property. It is. But they're mad because they know that's industry, the juice industry likes to keep it very tight. And the name of the course is juice undercover. Yeah. So a behind-the-scenes look. So he knows. So we'll talk a little bit about, you know, the evolution of procurement, where you see it going. Yes. Right? And how the courses can help. Yes. We're going to talk about, you know, a little bit of more shared experiences on how, you know, education can shape the next generation of produce procurement people and sales executives as well because they go hand in hand. Yes. Because you got to know what's in the ingredients that you're selling, you know, if you're selling to Panera, you're right? Or if it's going to Chick-fil-A, or if it's just an in-store juicy program. Those are all different aspects, right? Yes. You know, you can't get away from that. No. And I think the key thing is, is the ability to understand the vocabulary, right? And as you said, the reason I did juice knowledge and was because there really wasn't a platform where you could just go and see all the aspects of the supply chain. And that's kind of where where juiceknowledge.com came from. You got to love that. And then we're even going to talk a little about produce knowledge too. You and I, you and I've been brainstorming about that one, haven't we? That's going to be a fun one, because as my platform has an education aspect to it, right? We are sponsored, one of our sponsors is Cornell University, the Dyson Food School of Business. And obviously our goal is to educate the next generation of leaders. So when they come to the industry, they at least have had some type of knowledge on, you know, some of these guys come in like, I want to be in fresh produce, but I don't know how. I don't know what to do. And they don't teach out the universe. No, they don't. They teach you just the basics, right? Even that's why I didn't go to do an ag background. Yeah. I started an ag switch to entrepreneurship because I, my dad always said this, you laugh at Ken Kelly comment, right? I know. Which is more or less this, which is you'll have your PhD in produce before you get your PhD on a piece of paper. That's right. Right, and I did, right? So everyone, we're going to take that last break and conclude the show. And when we come back next week, we're going to talk about juiceknowledge.com. We're going to about all about fresh produce procurement in juice and produce knowledge, everyone. So let's hear from one of our sponsors. And as I say, we'll see you in the fields, and on their eyes. And thank you, Dino. Yep. See you next week. From the heart of the still, or steam curls and fresh mint leaves release their essence. This is a whahee mint oil, soft, sweet, and smooth as a morning breeze through a mint field. With its naturally earthy aromas, it's the perfect touch for summer drinks, cooking, and diffusing. And like nature's finest, it only grows richer and sweeter with time. Straight from the still, pure, fresh, timeless, a whahee mint oil.