Less is Macklemore

You might drink it every day, but did you know that the history of tea is steeped in skullduggery, colonialism and industrial espionage? I'm Greg Jenner, host of You're Dead to Me. We're the comedy show that takes history seriously, and in our latest episode, we spill the tea on tea. Join us to unpack the ancient Chinese origins of the drink and find out how it became the national drink of modern Britain. Listen to You're Dead to Me wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us on YouTube. If modern life feels a little loud, you're not alone. At Miraval Resorts and Spas, mindfulness has never been about perfection or performance. For more than 30 years, it's been about presence, slowing down enough to listen, reconnect and make space for what matters. Across Miraval's destinations, well-being takes many forms. Meditation, yoga, fitness. Hygiene. Cooking. Equine experiences. Time in nature. And moments set aside simply to be present. These aren't just experiences for the moment. They're simple, intentional practices. Tools you can carry with you long after you leave. Because wellness doesn't live in one place or one moment. It lives in how you show up, again and again. Miraval Resorts. Wellness for real life. Learn more at MiravalResorts.com This is Matt Rodgers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rodgers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rodgers and Bowen Yang. Okay, we've been talking about Kewpie Mayo for a minute now, Bow, and wow, the feedback we're getting. I mean, so many of y'all love this stuff. You're stopping us in the street going, I love Kewpie. And if you're thinking, wait, what is Kewpie? Uh, do you not have the internet? It's the OG Japanese mayonnaise. The one with the red cap. The one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. Once you know it, you start seeing it everywhere. People ask what makes it different from basic mayo. Well, the answer, egg yolks. Kewpie is made with egg yolks only, giving it this incredibly rich umami flavor that elevates everything. Burgers, fries, sandwiches, chicken, noodles. Chefs use it. Restaurants use it. People who really love food and flavor use it. Whatever you're eating, Kewpie it. So if you haven't tried Kewpie yet, find the bottle with the red cap. And see what everyone's talking about. You'll understand. Kewpie, the original Japanese mayonnaise. What's up, Los Angeles? Welcome to Love It or Leave It, live from Hollywood to MSNOW viewers. I am not a random guy. I was actually once a. I was a presidential speechwriter, and now I do this. I'm John Lovett, and welcome to the nation's number one late-night political gay live comedy podcast. Let's get into it. What a week. On Monday, the Supreme Court blocked President Trump's plan to use the post office to potentially withhold millions of mail-in ballots, which would have been so messed up. If Democrats lose the midterms, we should not have to wonder if it's because of missing mail-in ballots. We should know, without a shadow of a doubt, that it is because of Hasan Piker. While this ruling did not come with a vote count, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito dissented, while Brett Kavanaugh issued a concurring opinion, or as he'll be known at the next No Kings rally, the notorious BMK. You might not like it, but well-behaved men seldom make history. Brett. Brett. Brett. Brett. Brett. Brett. Shame on you. All right. Trump then singled out the three justices he nominated, Kavanaugh, Neil Gorsuch, and Amy Coney Barrett, saying, quote, These are not the people I interviewed to say that. To serve on the United States Supreme Court, they are merely a shell of their original selves, added Trump. You are not the people whose names I picked off a list presented to me by the Federal Society, who saw me as a useful idiot to stack the court with right-wing ideologues who I then talked at for an hour. You were nodding. This wasn't the only rebuke by a Trump nominee. Two weeks ago, Trump issued an ultimatum to the Federal Reserve. Cut interest rates, or he will cut off U.S. trade with the world, which would obviously be terrible for the economy. It was a smart threat, since if you work for the Fed, you probably really like the economy. Trump wrote on True Social, Now, I made the photo up. That didn't happen, but it's plausible. And that tells you where we're at. And yet this week, the Fed, now led by Trump's pick, Kevin Warsh, raised interest rates for the first time since July 2023. If the Revolutionary Guard of Iran can call Trump's bluff, why can't we, shouted a board member, let's be as brave as the Ayatollah, making several other members of the Federal Reserve quite uncomfortable. Now let's go to Trump and see if you can catch how he's subtly trying to save face. Yeah, I do. I mean, I'm relying on Kevin, but he's got, you know, a very tough board. He's got a board that was put there by a lot of other people. And the. Interest rates are too high. They're not appropriate. And I told, I talked to Kevin and I said, you might as well vote with the board because it's not going to matter. Look, when I'm sitting in the cuck chair, it's like I'm, it's like I'm part of it. It's really my idea. And that's a big reason why I feel so good about it and not upset when it's happening, the act. And then on Tuesday, a federal judge once again blocked Trump from adding his name to the Kennedy Center, said the judge, hey, my ruling is this is too stupid for a society. The Kennedy Center is. It's a literal memorial. And even if it weren't demanding your name be added to a building is very embarrassing. And even if that weren't true, it obviously requires Congress, which created the Kennedy Center, to pass a law. Am I a judge? Is this real? Did I die? The judge, Christopher Cooper, actually said, simply put, the defendants cannot install memorials for President Trump or anyone or anything else at the Kennedy Center without Congress's blessing. Unlike John F. Kennedy, this judge is obviously very close minded. In retaliation, the Trump stacked Kennedy Center board voted to close the art center completely effective immediately, which is too bad because tomorrow night's Kennedy Center performance was going to be Macklemore. Oh, man, that guy cannot catch a break. Trump is now explicitly saying he will not allow the plan. Two hundred fifty seven million dollar renovation to proceed with the name change, telling reporters Wednesday. So for the Trump administration, for me to get involved and to take that on long term and to carry it or to raise money to carry it. I think that the Trump administration should certainly have recognition, because frankly, if we don't do that, it's going to close. It'll end up being ripped down. It's in very, very bad shape, very dangerous shape. Why save something if you can't put your name on it? It's like how Jane Goodall carved her name into every single one of those chimps. And look, buddy, none of those other buildings with your name on it actually filled the void, huh? Should we try something else? Should we try calling your son who is also named after you? Just to say. Hi. A son is like a building that can love you back. And then on Wednesday night, Trump was photographed through the window of his Qatari Air Force One, looking at a big signboard with a picture of the D.C. skyline, above which in big letters it said Kennedy Center demolished. Many wondered if this was a way to bully the judge into allowing the name change when, in fact, the real explanation is far more innocent. This is his porn now. Yet there is one last Trump bastion on Earth not willing to call the president's bluff, and that's the Republican. Congress. On Tuesday, Republican gadfly Thomas Massey introduced articles of impeachment against Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. Ugh, said Hegseth. This is just like that time my friends and family ambushed me to read a bunch of lame letters about how much they love me or whatever. Massey's charges against Hegseth include violating the War Powers Act, retaliating against critics like Senator Mark Kelly, kidnapping Nicolas Maduro, and committing extrajudicial killings. Well, it's five o'clock somewhere, said Hegseth, before bombing a school. Yep, that's right. Massey told CNN he hid his impeachment resolution from Republican leadership so they wouldn't try to stomp him. In the only place they'd never look, the Epstein files, said Massey. So I didn't want to show my hand. I didn't show it to anybody. I was afraid that they would do something to subvert me getting on the floor for an hour and 20 minutes and reading these articles. And subverting Massey is exactly what the GOP did. After all, this isn't House Speaker Mike Johnson's first rodeo because he's a friggin' clown. Like at rodeos. To avoid having to call a vote on the resolution, Johnson ended the legislative session early, effectively preventing a vote until after the midterm, similar to when Johnson prevented a vote on the Epstein files last July by sending Congress home early for the summer. Pulling out before anything happens is Johnson's favorite move, and he also uses it in Congress. Ending the session early also means that the House left town without taking any action on a number of AI safety bills. But here, too, Johnson is following Trump's lead. Echoing the AI backers who have his ear, Trump has come out against any regulation, a sentiment repeated by J.D. Vance to the AI investors who host the All In podcast. What I would say to those people, if you're building Frankenstein, stop. Or maybe build, you know, if the cat is out of the bag, then build the defensive mechanism against Frankenstein. Look, if there's a lesson from Mary Shelley that she was trying to convey in Frankenstein, it's that Victor needed to stop being so emotional and just build a big, or lonely, monster to protect him from the murderous one. Frankenstein 2, practice makes perfect. Meanwhile, Nate Silver has Democrats up 8.2% with likely voters according to the latest average. We just got to keep our heads down, do the work, and avoid blowing it, said Chuck Schumer before heading out on stage to open for Ed Sheeran. Now you have Republicans trying to remove Trump's name from their websites and putting out last minute ads criticizing Trump on immigration, but it's hard to distance yourself from Trump when you spent years enabling mass deportations, the war in Iran, and shocking brazen corruption. So J.D. Vance is left making pleas like this. Give us another chance or give us another couple of years to continue to work on the amazing things that we've been doing for the past two years. Give us another chance. Bitch, you didn't get drunk and kiss your work wife at the office Christmas party. You lost a war in Iran. And to really close the deal, Vance tried this. And the second argument I'd make is even if you don't agree with us on every issue, the other argument I'd make is even if you don't agree with us on every issue, the other argument I'd make is even if you don't agree with us on every issue, the other argument I'd make is even if you don't agree with us on every issue, the other argument is consumed by craziness. Craziness, I tell you. Anyway, got to go see about blowing up the National Performing Arts Center. And speaking of performances that are blowing up, last week, Ben Haggerty, better known by his stage name, Macklemore, opened for Ed Sheeran, better known by his stage name, Ed Sheeran. Macklemore played his protest song, Hins Hall, accompanied by graphic images of Gaza and this statement. One of the reasons why I wanted to come on this tour was because I wanted to stand up here on stages and stadiums across America and say two words that are very near and dear to my heart, free Palestine. And look, we have to be able to separate the art from the artist in the sense that the songs are bad, but the message is good. Soon, Robert Kraft, who owns Gillette Stadium in Massachusetts, where the tour was set to appear, threatened to cancel the show unless Sheeran dropped Macklemore. Kraft also rallied other stadium operators to make the same demand. And as a Jewish American myself, thank you, Robert Kraft. The best way to fight antisemitism is for a Jewish billionaire to join forces with a cabal of other wealthy stadium operators to prevent audiences from hearing a pro-Palestinian statement by a performer largely regarded until now as a brand safe version of fucking Eminem. Macklemore then announced he was no longer part of the tour, calling Sheeran a friend who wanted to avoid taking sides, a stance which, like Sheeran's hairline, was a "sick" thing to say. "I'm not a fan of the idea of people messing up, and I'm allowed to say that because I have had three hair transplants." A wave of anger and condemnation followed. Even Fox News host Jesse Waters was sympathetic to Macklemore. So what did he say that was bad? He said, "Free Palestine?" Is that all? He went on and on. No, it was genocide. Okay. Okay. Well, all I heard was "free Palestine." I don't think that's hate speech. Say what you will about Jesse Waters, but he was wearing the hell out of that keffiyeh. On Tuesday, Sheeran issued a statement claiming it was his promoter's decision to remove Macklemore, and not his own. And I appreciate Sheeran's transparency. Of his skin, the statement was embarrassing. Said Sheeran, "I am not complicit. I have my personal views on this devastating conflict. Just because I choose not to speak publicly, it doesn't mean I don't have them and that I don't care." He then specified that the song "Shape of You" was actually about Israel returning to its 1967 borders. It must be frustrating for Sheeran. Dolly Parton never had to take a position on Israel and Palestine, but she had the bazongas to pull it off. By the end of the day Tuesday, Sheeran's other opening acts for the remainder of the tour, Roe, Graham, and Phineas, all announced that they were dropping out in solidarity with Macklemore. But Sheeran has managed to replace them with, it says here, "Ben Shapiro playing the clarinet." That's tough. On Wednesday, Macklemore announced that he was donating the $1 million he made from the tour to six organizations aiding Palestinians, adding, "I invite Robert Kraft to match my donation." Then Kraft responded, saying that before Macklemore challenged him to match the donation, Sheeran asked him to commit $2 million, saying that Sheeran was reaching out to other venue owners in order to build bridges. Sadly, Israel has since bombed those bridges. And finally, Lady Gaga welcomed her new baby into the world. The name? Rose Bean. She's named after her father, Mr. Bean. All right, we've got a great show for you tonight, and we'll be right back with Ahsan Piker. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. Love It or Leave It is brought to you by Willys Remedy. If you want to de-stress after a long day but don't love the idea of a hangover tomorrow, now you can have fun and relax without the regrets thanks to Willys THC-infused social tonic. I love Willys. We had Willys at our wedding. It's my favorite. In fact, I was at the Minnesota State Fair. And I saw some people in my family, and they were just talking about Willys coincidentally, not realizing it was a sponsor. Willys is an alcohol alternative that actually works, delivering an uplifting euphoric buzz you can really feel with no negative side effects. Willys is a premium THC-infused social tonic crafted by the legendary Willie Nelson, who is, as we all know, an expert in the cannabis space. Very few people could credibly call themselves a name you can trust in THC, but he is one of them. And the man's a genius. He's a wizard. Only 15 calories. Just 3 grams of sugar. This tonic gives you all the fun and relaxation. None of the regret. Comes in 5mg and 10mg doses with a delicious blend of passionfruit, lemon, and lime. Enjoy as a shot over ice or mix into your favorite mocktail. This is not the kind of edible that left you scarred in a mobile in college. Every bottle is third-party lab tested for accurate dosage so you can trust and customize your experience. Again, I love Willys. Highly recommend it. Huge fan. Willys is the number one THC-infused beverage in the U.S. with over 350,000 happy customers. And over 1 million bottles sold. Order now at DrinkWillys.com and use code "Lowly" for 20% off your first order, plus free shipping on orders over $95. Or use the store locator to find Willys on shelves near you, like your local Total Wine, Spex, ABC, or local liquor store. Love It or Leave It is brought to you by Quo. We've all been in that pinch of broken appliance or leaky roof right before the rainy season starts. When you need help fast, waiting hours for someone to call you back just doesn't cut it. For many businesses, everything gets busier in the fall. More calls, more customers, more chances for somebody to slip through the cracks. Staying ahead means having the right system, not just working harder. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q-U-O. The business phone system built so you never miss a call. Quo is the number one rated business phone system on G2, trusted by over 90,000 businesses who rely on it to stay reachable and look professional every day. All your calls, texts, and voicemails live in one place, so anyone on your team can pick up a conversation, see the full history, and respond fast. Set it up in minutes on any device. Keep your existing number. And add teammates as you grow. No IT, no hassle. Quo's optional built-in AI agent handles after-hours calls, answers questions, and even books appointments so you never miss a lead, even when your team is offline. Quo integrates with the tools your team already uses, like HubSpot, Zapier, Cloud, and more, helping you save time, stay organized, and spend less time chasing information between systems. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free, plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to quo.com/loveit. That's Q-U-O dot com slash loveit. And we're back! Please welcome to the show, the star of this year's midterm elections, America's sweetheart, Hasan Piker. All right, let me just. I do want to get this out of the way. I denounce you. I was about to say. Thank God. I denounce myself as well. Great, great. That's so important. Thank you for doing that. Oh, that's a big. I need some more questions. All right. So I see online today that you're releasing your most contentious interview yet, the day we're supposed to be recording this episode. What the fuck? First of all, you're everywhere. Are you promoting a movie? Do you have a book coming out? Do you have a project? Are you in the Emmy run? What's going on? I have no idea what's going on half the time. It's just people are constantly blowing up my phone and being like, we have to talk. We have to talk about what you've done. And I'm like, what have I done? Like, what's going on? And they're like, oh, well, I'm Tim Bollock with the New York Times. Right, right, right, right, right. It turns out the Republicans don't really have a good midterm message. So they decided to go with the craziest message of all time, which is just my meat. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. They decided to say, look at this radical Islamic jihadist terrorist. He's butt naked in this photo. But they blurred out the meat. They did. Which would-- but as if there was something unsightly about the photo. But the photo was just of underwear. Yeah. And I think that's the best I've ever looked. Like, I don't look that good right now. So I can't even, like, show more shirtless photos for Debbie Dingle. Raise a lot of money. Well, you know, maybe in a future where you could be sort of-- you could use that to raise money if you weren't being denounced so frequently and condemned. So I do want to stipulate-- now, I think you've said shit that is very stupid and bad. I also think you've been-- had a lot of your words taken out of context. The reason I'm stipulating all this is, like, I just don't want to do another round of that conversation. I think that conversation is important. I'm glad you had it with Axios. I'm sorry Simone Sanders scooped you on this now. No, but I'm not-- I'm glad they had-- look, I totally-- yes, that is actually what happened. But I also-- but I'm not-- that is not to say that conversation isn't important. I'm just-- that you've had it. And I think you should go listen to that version of it, which is fine. Yeah. So this is the thing I wanted to talk to you about, which is, I see you mixing it up with some people in the center left, with some former Trump Republicans. And so my view is, I am part of a pro-democracy coalition in the fight against fascism, and it includes everyone from former Republicans like Nicole Wallace and Tim Miller and Sarah Longwell. It includes establishment politicians. It includes Neera Tanden. It includes Shannon Watts. It includes AOC and Bernie. And it includes voices on the left like you. Am I right or am I wrong about that? No, you're absolutely right. And I have the exact same mentality about this as well. I have my frustrations with the Democratic Party. It's very obvious. I let it be known. But my criticisms of the Democrats, establishment Democrats, of the failures of the campaigns are never that they are worse than the Republicans. I want them to be better than the Republicans. And sometimes I think we are far too close to the Republicans. We're far too conciliatory to their made-up hysterias. And we keep falling for the bait. And in some respects, I think this campaign of denouncement is a version of that as well. We're living through unprecedented crisis after crisis in America right now. The Republicans know that they have no agenda that they can run on. Donald Trump is underwater on immigration. He ran on mass deportations. And now he's underwater on immigration, which, by the way, was very predictable. Ironically enough, this is what I was talking about in the lead-up to the election. I was like, we should not concede on this false framing that immigrants constitute a national security threat. It's not real. And the prosecution of this mass deportation initiative is going to look like Hitler's Germany. And people are going to get frustrated inevitably by that reality. And it turns out, lo and behold, that is exactly what happened, right? So I understood the severity of the crisis. I understood the impact that Trump would have. And I really wanted the Democrats to be a competent anti-Trump force and thoroughly dismantle his agenda. And even after the defeat, I expected Democrats to at least rise up to the moment and fight back. And they were nowhere to be found. And I think that is the main reason why I got more active and more hands-on in campaigns. And there were a bunch of wonderful Democratic Socialist candidates that were running all around the country. I think it was Zoran initially that kind of sparked my interest in this. So if you guys want to blame anybody, blame Zoran Mamdani. But yeah, there was tremendous success there. And I mean, he's unbelievably charismatic. He's very successful. And he's also a great mayor. And he's done the unthinkable. He's become a popular mayor of New York. I think the last time a guy was a popular mayor of New York, they put his name on the airport, right? And even then, they destroyed his legacy because this is the worst airport of all time. Never get to fly out of LaGuardia. So yeah, look, I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying. But you also have people that are part of this coalition, like Roy Cooper is a very popular governor. Josh Shapiro has been very popular. We had victories because of people like Abigail Spanberger, right? Like when you say, oh, you know, Democrats, they weren't showing up, right? Look, well, we lost, right? We didn't have power. We're trying to figure out how to fight our way back to having power, which is what we're trying to do now. And I'm wondering how you think about the Fox News has made you the main character. And I agree. It's because they don't know what else to do. But that is because they must be seeing something that says, oh, this person seems like a crazy person to people. He seems radical. We can tar people with this person's image. What do you think about that? So I forget who it was who said this, but it's like if Republicans are using it as an attack ad, that means they tested it and it's working, right? And my answer to that is they have nothing else. So this might be their only thing they have. Just because it's their most successful narrative doesn't mean that it's going to be successful in winning elections for them. And I don't think it will be successful in winning elections for them at all. Because, look, I've gone all up and down the country. I have fans in many places all around this beautiful country. And, you know, there's obviously a lot of Republicans that don't like me and maybe even some liberals that don't like me. But by and large, the idea that a Twitch streamer is supposed to be held to a higher standard, then the president is such an insane phenomena that it could only be concocted by a bunch of out of touch people in mainstream outlets that think like this is a salient narrative that will definitely work because people don't care. Like I have I have a lot of followers that are still very active on these campaigns that are doing canvassing and in phone banking. And every now and then in Michigan, because I'm apparently an ad that they blast on the air, I'm like, every commercial break numerous times throughout the day that there will be a guy that will bring my name up when talking about Abdul El-Sayed, where they're like, well, what's up with this Hassan guy? But by and large, they just don't care. They're like, yeah, OK, that doesn't I don't really care at the end of the day. Like that's not going to change my decision as far as like voting for him, because people are voting for the economy and the economy is in tatters. I mean, I saw a billboard. In Texas that said that they were out of diesel. I didn't even know billboards said out. It was like one of those digital billboards and it said out under diesel. I was like, that's a thing. I mean, we're seeing like nine dollars. They're maxing out on gas, buddy. This is what Americans are frustrated by. And it's not great that Donald Trump is not great for the Republicans that Donald Trump goes on television almost daily and says, yeah, the poor's need to eat shit and die. Yeah. Well, so I agree with what you're saying, right there. If they're there, if they're using it because they're out of ideas, it's ridiculous. The standard they're holding YouTube versus I agree with all that. We we will sometimes have Fox News on in our office. And it is amazing how much you are all over Fox News. But every once in a while, we'll do an interview with somebody or have a conversation and we'll be talking about what's wrong with the Democratic Party. Or we had there was a we joked about age being ultimately the thing that takes down Trump. And we were laughing about what would happen if Trump had deep vein thrombosis, something to that effect. And then you turn totally defensible conversation. But so then you turn on turn on Fox News the next day and look, there it is. Right. And sometimes and when that happens and I feel like, you know what? Fuck them. Use this. Who cares? It was fine. And they're wrong. But there have been moments right where you don't say something the way you wish or you're you're like, you know, there have been times where I've done interviews where I'd wished I phrased a question differently and then all of a sudden they're using it useful to to to the opponent of that candidate who ultimately I would rather see win. And so that means that I don't want to cow to right wing nonsense and propaganda. But I also I am proud of the platform I have and the people I get to talk to and and to get to do this show. And that means I do have a responsibility. And I wonder if you think about that. No, absolutely. I do. There's two different versions of this. Right. You have the out of answer or I get too wordy with it and they can like chop it down and reduce it to something. I mean, this is literally happened to Abdul as well. He he had this very thoughtful piece that he that he delivered. I believe it was a couple of days after the synagogue attack where he was talking about the cycle of violence and how to put an end to it. Right. And they reduced it to a choice quote, hurt people, hurt people. The the argument was not to to make it seem like this was an agreeable act or justifiable act. I mean, he he calls the person a heinous monster. He calls the person a heinous monster, a small individual. And and of course, this also came after a direct condemnation the day of the attack. And yet they reduce it to hurt people, hurt people. The media does this all the time. So they come back to you. But but but not those. My point was, yeah. So but then there's also there's also the third thing, which is like actual positions that I hold, actual opinions that I have that are unbelievably antagonistic to those in positions of power, that when they hear that, they like lose their minds. I don't know how to deal with it. And and when I'm faced with a question like that, I have to, in my mind, make this calculation of should I be honest about what I believe? Should I take a principled stance on something or should I portray myself as a campaign surrogate and and act as though I'm running for office? And I've definitely dialed down. I know it doesn't seem like it. I'm definitely dialed down my commentary with that in mind, for sure, because it's totally ridiculous. I'm not being paid by any of these campaigns. There are literal white supremacists, white nationalists working inside of every single Republican campaign. Some are running. Yeah. Some are running. Yeah. And and yet the entire discourse seems to be around myself and my affiliation with these candidates, even though I mean, Abdul came out yesterday and was like, I'm not planning on campaigning with Hassan. And I've already made it clear like this is a Twitch streamer. His opinions are are utterly immaterial to the campaign that I'm running, which is focused on Michigan. But the media won't let go. Right. Yeah. It's but I hear you're saying and like right before we we came out, we were seeing there's more from this interview you did with Axios. Right. And there's all these headlines going around. You know, the U.S. is pound for pound worse than Al Qaeda is one of the ones that's going around. And then then you look into what you're saying. I understand the point that you're making. And there is a space between acting like a candidate. and not saying what you think, and a kind of obtuseness about what happens when you say something like that, right? Because there is the substance of what you're saying in a moment like that. And as a streamer and as a person who the audience trusts to just say exactly what you think, totally get the point that you're making, the argument that you're making. But as you have a bigger platform now, do you think to yourself, you know what, the most helpful and persuasive way for me to make this argument to the people that will hear it is not to be so antagonistic in the framing? Or am I just too kind of poisoned by sort of campaigns and politics? No, I think there's truth to what you're saying, absolutely. Because you want to be helpful to the people you want to support. And clearly, there are times in which you've become a problem for people like Abdul. And the problem isn't necessarily what I'm saying. The problem is that I become a distraction. Because you have a finite amount of time where you are supposed to make your case, to the people. And some of those people are going to be 65-year-old white ladies living in places like Macomb County. They see the name Abdulrahman Mohammed El-Sayed being blasted over and over again. And they like him. They like that he's a doctor. They like that he's a father. But then they're a little bit worried because, you know, I mean, he's jacked. And also on top of that, he's, you know, he's very brown. He's very Muslim. And they're seeing, they're being inundated with the rage of hateful racial agitprop on a daily basis. And they're like, well, I'm associating Abdul with this. And then all of a sudden, they're like, well, he campaigned with this guy. Did that guy do 9-11? I don't really know what's going on there. And I just want to say, there is, at this point, no evidence that you had anything to do with 9-11. Yes. Yes. I was an ambitious nine-year-old. But that would be ridiculous. So there's obviously the Islamophobia angle as well. Because like, these candidates, and Zoran went through this. He was the first that went through this. Because the America Deserved 9-11 soundbite, it originated or resurfaced as like a big salient attack ad against Zoran in the New York race. And it failed. But that didn't stop people from going, oh, this is something that we could test out further. It is yet to succeed in every single primary. But this is the true test because it's a purple state, right? It's a statewide race. It's a Senate race. It's a pivotal race. So, you know, I don't know. But I think that's the way it's going to be. I think this is their big last huzzah. They're trying to see if this will actually work with a candidate whose name is Abdullah Al-Sayed. So I understand that. And I understand that anything else that I say about American foreign policy is always going to turn into, oh, he loves our enemies and he hates America and, you know, he wants America to suffer. The way to get around that is to get around it. And I think that's the way it's going to be. I mean, obviously, my own personal responsibility is first and foremost to like either go away or to never do an Axios interview. So that's one. Yeah. I mean, I don't think that's a particularly bad idea for you. But I think let's talk about your strategy with the media. We can have a little bit more of a plan. But yeah, no, the Axios interview, the Axios interview. You have a PR person you talk to and run these things. But yeah, I'm getting the sense. Yeah. Clavicular's publicist got mad at me on the timeline. It was like because he Hassan famously doesn't hire a publicist. And that's why he's doing this stuff. And I was like, look, I'm a big boy. Like, I know I can handle contentious media interviews. It's just that there's still a coordinated effort behind the scenes to be like, we're going to clip this out. They went to Abdul El-Sayed before the video was released. Yeah, that's that's that was smart. That was there. Maybe they're making a moment out of this interview. Yeah. And they I think they leaked it to status as well to be like, oh, it was a contentious fire interview. So immediately my phone blows up. They're like asking me like, why was it contentious? And I was like, yeah, it was a contentious interview. The most contentious interview I've done so far because it was 45 minutes of just being like, these are the clips. And they were just hammering them. I guess it's there's nothing that you can do to go like people. You stream all the time. I think it's insane what you do. Just madness, madness. But there's nothing you could do to there's there. People can have combed through and they're going to find things that you said either take them out of context or not take them out of context. But I'm curious, like going forward, right, like. You're joking about not just not having a publicist. Fine. But but like there does seem to be two paths for you, one in which you have this platform that you take seriously, not just where you say what you think, but to be kind of useful at persuasion and being more directly involved with politics. Or you can be someone who just says the thing in the way that is not necessarily the most helpful in a political arena outside of core people. And I'm curious if you see those paths. No, I do. I think there's two different schools of thought on this. Like I, I not only want to be persuasive, but I think the the testament to the success of a lot of these DSA candidates, as well as as my success individually as a content creator is a testament to the the persuasive capabilities of this platform in general. But yes, entering the realm of of political campaigns is an entirely different thing. Right. I totally understand that. It's far more vicious. And it's an unbelievably hostile media environment. I don't expect them to treat me in the same way that they treat even Republicans. There's two ways of dealing with this is what I always say. And not everyone can can handle this hyper contentious media environment. But what I wish liberals would do more frequently is to expose the double standard and also tackle the form because at the end of the day, like the eight hour broadcast, I'm not just talking about politics. I'm burping into the microphone. I'm making dick jokes like it's not always super serious. Yeah. Right. It's not supposed to be super serious. There's, you know, serious commentary. And then there's very unserious moments as well. But they're elevating my my status as this like super serious political commentator and campaign consultant campaign surrogate when I've never I've never wanted to be that. I just I didn't even think that like campaigning. With Abdul or going on a rally with Abdul was was ever going to be this much of a like a media moment from the start. I was very honest about it, too. I because I had had Abdul on numerous times. He fundraised for him. We went to the gym together and stuff like that. And I never realized that like Adam Ray of Politico was going to take our campaigning together as like a like a big step that, you know, really terrified a lot of people in positions of power for some reason. Yeah, I guess I just think. The question for you is what responsibility that creates for you now that you like it or not are in this place. But Hassan Piker, thank you so much. Everybody go check out his stream. He's at at Hassan Abhi on YouTube and Twitch. And we'll be right back. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. We all have those persistent bad habits we wish we could change. We want to stop anxiety spirals, learn to better cope with the stressors that come our way or be more present with our friends and family. Whatever you feel needs to change in your life, therapy can help. BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours of hands-on experience. They also hold all required education, training, and certifications across a range of mental health specialties. BetterHelp makes it easy to get started, answer a few questions, get matched with a therapist based on your needs, and switch therapists at any time if it's not the right fit. Better is a feeling defined by you. And for BetterHelp, it's a BetterHelp therapist who really gets you. It's a focus on global emotional well-being with thousands of therapists and millions of members in over 100 countries. Therapy's great. Everybody needs it. I need it. I'm not in therapy right now. And that's a problem. We could all use it. It's a shame that it's hard for some people to access, but with tools like BetterHelp, more people can get therapy, and that's a good thing. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash love it. That's betterhelp.com slash love it. Long Play, our docuseries exploring the people and forces shaping the South, is back. Newsflash, the South is the new political epicenter of the country. Democrats are way on their heels in this region, but Republicans are going through their own reckoning in the South, too. We're in the final stretch of the midterms, and the political map has only gotten more competitive with new states and districts emerging as potential flips. So we thought it was time to get back out on the road and take a closer look at what's actually happening on the ground. I'm Erin Haines, journalist and expert on all things Southern politics. And I'm Jennifer Palmieri, former White House communications director. Tune in on Mondays to Long Play series on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. For more than 30 years, it's been about presence, slowing down enough to listen, reconnect, and make space for what matters. Meditation, yoga, fitness, hiking, equine experiences, time in nature, and moments set aside simply to be present. They're simple, intentional practices, tools you can carry with you long after you leave. It lives in how you show up again and again. Miraval Resorts, wellness for real life. Learn more at miravalresorts.com. ♪ ♪ And we're back. My next guest is a chef, a TV star, and four-time James Beard Award winner. And one time, he ate a tarantula. Put your hands together for Chef Andrew Zimmern. So I have to tell you something. I was at the Minnesota State Fair for the last week in Labor Day weekend. And because of your recommendation, I ate the gizmo sandwich. What did you think? It's great. It's fantastic. It's great. I will say. No burps. You have more practice. I will say, like, a big hoagie filled with sausage and beef and melted cheese and sauce at 3 o'clock on a blindingly hot summer day in the Twin Cities was perfect. It's all meant to be shared, though. Yes. I mean, this is my whole, I mean, nobody should be walking around the State Fair eating an Amish donut, a bucket of cheese curds, a bucket of fries, two footlongs, a gizmo. You go with people, and you share. Absolutely. I split that bad boy. I think the larger takeaway for everyone should be that arguably the single greatest annual cultural event in America, and it's an argument I make all the time, is the Minnesota State Fair. Yeah. And you're all out applauding because you're one of those coastal elite freaks. But you don't know how great. I've married into Minnesota, and the State Fair is the best. It's unbelievable. I mean, the 4-H buildings, it's 160-year-old permanent fairgrounds. There's a grandstand that seats 40,000 people that, you know, Bonnie Raitt is there one night, Alice Cooper the next, the Black Keys the next. I don't think people understand. The Minnesota State Fair does not just take over an area. It exists year-round for the purpose of the two weeks of the fair. It has its own zip code in all of its buildings. It only stands up for the period of the fair. It's basically a ghost town the rest of the year. There were a time where people lived on the grounds to take care of it. But then it comes alive for this two-week period, and there are all these businesses. It's like, well, what do you do? We get ready for the fair. We sell our corn at the fair. Then we get ready for the fair. The cow barn, I take people to the cow barn all the time to look at eight-year-old blonde-haired kids with straw coming out of their mouth, sleeping on top of their prized heifer that they're going to show on day three. And they're just, they clean it every day. They sleep with their cows. They don't want anyone near them. Their cow gets judged all the time. And then right next to them are architecture students from Germany sketching the cantilevered interior beam work there because it was the first roof of its kind. There's the Miracle of Birth Center. There's an art gallery that collects Minnesota art all year long. From animals. It's unbelievable. And bean art. I will tell you, there was, when the Miracle of Birth opened, it's ten different types of farm animals, and they have lots of pregnant ones brought in. So that everyone can see how these animals are birthed and veterinarians speak and it's a really pro-animal thing. And I would say anti-smell. It's unpleasant sometimes, but about 18 years ago when my son was four, I had him on my shoulders and other people were just awestruck that there was a pig birthing eight, nine, ten, twelve little piglets in a row. And no one, everyone was very excited. It was very quiet. My son screamed out, "My daddy eats all of those." And the whole, I mean, the room just went silent and turned around and I had to shrink away into another part of the building. It's like, yes, I've eaten that animal before, but that's a bad guy. We walked into the Miracle of Birth and there was a cow there and someone standing nearby said, "Ugh, that's the placenta. We missed it." So you were in Washington speaking out about toxic chemicals in food. There's legislation called the Fresh and Affordable Foods Act and it sounds great, but it actually could potentially weaken some state safety food laws. What should people know about it? Well, not potentially. And like a lot of other legislation that's been put forth by this administration, especially surrounding things like the environment and food and farming and the farm bill and anything else that we participate in every single day, it has a really, really rosy, happy name around it. What it's actually designed to do is to take away the state's ability to protect its citizens by not allowing foods that will harm you, cause cancer, cause birth defects in women who are pregnant, etc., that they now have the right to do. It can preempt those existing conditions. The idea, by backers of potential legislation say, is, well, we just want to streamline everything with the FDA and not have, you know, 50 separate voices out there. I seem to remember from my high school education that was called federalism in Washington, kind of like states to have the right to do that. It's also a check and balance that we desperately need. I'm sure everyone who's listening and knows about all the food outbreaks that are now coming almost every single day. This morning. It was caramel swirl ice cream from a fairly reasonable size provider. The FDA has been gutted the the various other mechanisms within the 14 to 20 other agencies that have a say in different types of food issues. Way too many for my blood to begin with, which is part of the problem. But the FDA has been gutted. Inspections have been gutted. Inspections of internationally imported. Foods, I think, are down by, like, 80% since 2024, the last time we have data on this. And so to take away the state's rights, to be able to say, no, you can't do that here, you can't put those dyes into our kids' candies, to me, is just more of the same slop that this administration has been peddling, which is, let's relax the laws. I mean, it seems to me like it's one of those things that have put handcuffs on big business for so long. I mean, it's just a very obvious con job. So you have RFK Jr., who ostensibly cared about basically two big issues, food, health and safety, make America healthy again, right, and vaccines. He seems to be getting what he wants and undermining vaccines, but is now the kind of face of an administration that is not doing anything about the weed killer roundup that seems to be undermining the rules. Yeah, well, I would say it's the same thing. I mean, I don't think it's the same thing. I don't think it's the same thing. I think it's the same thing. going to pay the price for everything that's going on for the last six months. So if you think beef prices and vegetable prices and fruit prices, healthy, nutritious ones, fresh ones were high before they're going to get higher. My fear for the average American family is, you know, I mean, you guys were talking about gas prices before. It's always been over the course of my lifetime. I'm 65, been around for a lot of elections. You know, kitchen table economics was always a conversation point that started out with gas prices. And I think the actual kitchen table issues around this election, I hope come home to roost for this administration because they're underserving Americans. One quick thing to add. I referenced before that there were 14 to 22, depending on how you calculate it, different agencies in Washington, the control, what we eat and drink. And that's a fact we need just based on GDP alone. And I've called for it for about eight years now is a secretary of food. Why we don't have a cabinet level secretary position and put all the food making and all the beverage issues and everything under one siloed, experienced human being. They should be really fat. I hope. Well, I want them to be really fat. In person bullshit. They should be heavy. Orson Welles. Yeah. Orson Welles reinforced chair for the fucking Saturday. We need a big dude. I am more lady. Yes. I am willing to put on 200 pounds if I can have that job. But I would like to, I would like to, I would really honestly hope that whoever sits in that Oval Office next understands what a mass, I mean, just to give everyone an idea, independent restaurants, not including ag. No hotels, nothing, no other piece of income other than independent restaurants. So that's not changed. It's just independent restaurants alone is over 6% of GDP and employs 11 million Americans. And the only business other than independent restaurants that's that big is the Pentagon. That's how big it is. That's crazy making. I didn't know that. I finally learned something on this show. So you are also, uh, along with your advocacy, you're hosting pit master, on food network. I'm schizophrenic. Pit masters. Now you had said you wouldn't host a competition show. What, what caused you to abandon your values? Filthy lucre. I'm being denounced. Yeah. You're being, I love this. I denounce Andrew Zimmern. Um, I got a call from some friends at a production company that I've tried to work with for 20 years. They've wanted to work with me. I've wanted to work with them. They said, we got this new show. Uh, can you shoot it, uh, in April? And I said, it's March. And they said, yeah, they've moved up the calendar on us. We don't know what to do. And I'm like, yeah, I'm in. And, uh, I think, uh, it's, it's an awesome show. It just concluded. Um, it got phenomenal ratings from what I understand. I'm really excited about it. And I I'm, you know, knock on wood, we get a second season. Uh, but yeah, it's, I mean, look at my age, I wanted to work with my friends and I, because I'm not, I'm not a flip-flopper. And I also felt that a straight up competition show underserved the audience. They talked down to the audience. The audience didn't get to see a real, like the barbecue shows were live fire shows. That's grilling on a Weber, right? Um, this we actually, you know, it's 24 hours a day. The fire never goes out eight straight days go. And you're, if you need to cook a brisket for 18 hours, you cook a brisket for 18 hours and they're in pairs strategically think about rest and sleeping. And we saw some incredible food. Um, and I'm really excited about it. Wild game kitchen, which is my, uh, taste made show. That's also my airs on my YouTube. Um, just got nominated for two Emmys. So I'm really excited about that. So the, the TV career surprisingly to me has never been better after 25 years of doing it is sort of nuts. Maybe you finally came into your own in ways you don't fully comprehend. Uh, I wanted to ask you, speaking of, uh, uh, TV coming full circle, you were mentored by Jacques Pepin, Pepin, Pepin, Pepin, Jacques. Yes. I'm old. Uh, I love him. Me too. He wasn't a jerk or anything. Was he not at all? Ah, one of the greatest human beings of all time. And in fact, the stuff like any great mentor, the stuff that he taught me about being a dad, about being a good citizen, about caring about your family and then your community and then your city and then your state and then your country. And, and about the joy of living are the things that I take away from him as well as knowing how to dice an eggplant. Um, but my dad was doing the advertising. Uh, my late father was doing the advertising for Howard Johnson's when Jacques was their corporate chef. And so I got to meet him and, you know, be around him enough over the course of, cause he didn't get back into restaurants. He started doing TV shows and he started writing books. He started doing things that were absolutely crazy. And he's such a brilliant and kind and engaging man. Um, and you know, during the early days of parenting, when I was away from my family all the time, it was Jacques who put his arm around me and said, you don't get to decide what time you spend with your kids. He said, when I was on the road, all of those years, I never saw Claudine, his daughter ever. He said, I was away 300 days a year. Now I come home. She turns 24. She moves into a house on the same block as me. And I make TV with her and I'm with her 24 hours a day. The magic of that, the, the, his ability to make me feel comfortable allowed me to be a better dad. That's beautiful. Well, thank you, chef Andrew Zimmern. Catch up on pit masters on HBO max and head to andrewzimmern.com for his sub stack recipes and other updates. We'll be right back. Love it or leave it is brought to you by simply save today's savvy burglars aren't deterred by traditional home security systems. They know that even if you trigger your alarm, they still have time to grab what they want and go simply safe is different. They stop break-ins before they start. Unlike traditional security systems that only alert you after a break-in is underway. Simply safe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside AI powered cameras, detect suspicious activity at the perimeter and alert live us-based agents. Simply saves agents, assess the threat, intervene and speak through the camera to scare off intruders and call 911 dispatch. Our CEO has simply saved the installation was quick and the system was up and running in no time. The app is easy to use. She can arm or disarm the system and check the cameras all from her phone. All of the components have worked smoothly since day one. And the family now has total peace of mind knowing they are protected by simply safe right now. You can get 50% off a new simply safe system. Go to simply safe.com slash love it. That's simply safe.com slash love it for 50% off. And when you order, please write in, love it or leave it in the, how did you hear about a survey to let them know we sent you don't forget there's no safe like simply safe. Long play our docu series exploring the people and forces shaping the South is back newsflash. The South is the new political epicenter of the country. Democrats are way on their heels in this region, but Republicans are going through their own reckoning in the South too. We're in the final stretch of the midterms and the political map has only gotten more competitive with new States and districts emerging as potential flips. I'm Jennifer Palmieri, former white house communications director. If modern life feels a little loud, you're not alone at Miraval resorts and spas. Mindfulness has never been about perfection or performance for more than 30 years. It's been about presence, slowing down enough to listen, reconnect, and make space for what matters across Miraval's destinations. Well, being takes many forms, meditation, yoga, fitness, hiking, equine experiences, time in nature, and moments set aside simply to be present. They're simple intentional practices, tools you can carry with you long after you leave because wellness doesn't live in one place or one moment. And we're back here with Hassan and Andrew, two people that I have denounced. Gentlemen, it's time. Time to spin the rant. We'll each get 60 seconds on the clock to let loose on the topics of our choosing. Let's spin the wheel. Andrew, what would you like to rant about? I would like to rant about the horrible nature of our behavior towards people in restaurants when it comes to prices. Restaurants are dealing with a jobs crisis. They're dealing with a rent crisis. They're dealing with a cost of goods crisis. And they're dealing with the same food cost crisis that we all have. And this idea that somehow restaurants across America have conspired to create a $24 cocktail and a $30 piece of chicken and are forcing everyone to buy it is simply untrue. Restaurants don't owe us anything. We have to change our behavior when it comes to what restaurants we are going to based on what we can afford. That is absolutely the case. But it's not a restaurant industry cabal trying to fix prices and eliminate people from going out. And I see restaurants being blamed right and left for things they have nothing to do with. I think it's a really important point. I'm so glad you made it. I will say, I think the prices at Arts Deli and Studio City have become insane. They're insane everywhere. I've not seen a restaurant. Yeah, the places that have come down in price are the ones where the food quality is crap. They're not taking care of the product. The cost of doing everything in America, the cost of bowling has gone up. Yes, I know, you're shattered. Your Tuesday Night League wants its shirt back. Yeah, that's why no one's inviting me to bowling. Let's spin it again. All right, Hasan, what's on your mind? Oh, boy. I don't know where to begin. I don't want to start off by turning this into a campaign crisis for anyone. I don't want to start off by turning this into a All jokes aside, I want Democrats to stop capitulating to right-wing framing. That's my rant. I don't want them to be dominated. I don't want our news media to succumb to Fox News as its news desk editor. I think everyone should be on Twitter a lot less, and I should probably take my own advice. Loving that. Straight up, we have some of the most psychopathic people out there. The algorithm is run by a racist billionaire. It's making us all stupider. I agree with that. Let's spin it again. This landed on me. I have a brief rant. So I flew to New York on Friday night, then I flew back Monday night, then I flew back to New York on Tuesday night, and then I flew back last night. Why I did that, I don't know. But I have a very specific request, which is, I believe on red-eye flights, we should all be able to agree, even if to sign some sort of contract that says, we don't care if we die, we don't need announcements. That we don't care where the exits are, we don't care what the weather is, we don't care if we're going to be on time or not. That when we get on that plane, we sit in our seats, the light goes off, and we're in the hands of the pilot, and if not the pilot, God. And if we die, we die sleeping. If we are going down, I do not want anyone to say a fucking word. Why do I? Oh, thanks for waking me up. The plane's going down? Fuck you. Let me sleep this one beautiful moment where I can be asleep and die asleep rather than fucking terrified. I think we could all get to the point where just only the red-eye flights, we've all flown before, no one flies a red-eye for the first time, silence in the evening on the red-eye flights. That's it. As a travel guy, I think that's the hottest take I've heard in a long time. I loved it. Actually, I did not think that we would agree on so much. Oh, wow. See, this is what's happening. This is the coalition. This is the coalition building. Big tent. And we'll be right back with Second Thoughts. And we're back. It has been another grand slam of a show. However, my producers always need to point out the foul balls. And boy, were my balls foul. This sucks. So here's how this works. Fucking hell. I have a list of places where they believe I've fucked up during this episode. If you have a list of places where they believe I've fucked up during this episode, if you have a list of places where you have second thoughts about tonight, this is the time to share them. My first joke was at the expense of Hassan, who brought a lot of people to pack the audience. That was rude. And I'm sorry. JFK caught some strays for a change. You guys didn't want to laugh about Hegseth bombing a school. And you were right. And I'm sorry. That was wrong. I'm sorry for making fun of Ed Sheeran's hairline and skin. Those were unfair digs. Even if accurate. Other people have the same hairline and have done nothing wrong. Other people have the same skin and done nothing wrong. Can't make fun of people for being ugly, or not him. But you know, we can't say, "That was bad." But you know what I'm saying. You know, "Ted Cruz is so ugly." There are good people who look just like him. You know what I'm saying? Eh. I feel like not a lot of people look like Ted Cruz. Yeah, you're right. You're right. I made fun of Macklemore's music, but not Ed Sheeran's. Which it says here is also bad. Mm. Meh. Mm. By the way, I feel like I've said, I just want you to all know, and I know you clocked it. I probably have said the word Macklemore tonight more than all the other times in my life combined. We had to make sure it was in fact not Macklemore, which is how I was raised saying it. But it's in fact supposed to be Macklemore, which I think sucks. Also, I had to say it a lot. It felt weird, right? You feel like how many times I had to say Macklemore? I'm sorry about that. And that's the last one. Oh, Hasan, during our conversation, I said that you said things that were dumb and bad. I left out what I was going to say, which is, in that way, we're a lot alike. I just want to make sure I add that, which I had written down in advance. I attacked your media strategy, even though I stand by that. And in part because it's not clear that you have one. I said to my guest, quote, "I think it's insane what you do." Just a question from the producers. Has Hasan seen the tweet with a photo of him in the suit? And it says, why does he look like he's dating Elaine Bennis for one episode? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I did. I did see that. It's a high praise. That's great. That's a compliment. That's a compliment. That's going to be at the next Jumbotron, at the next convention. Hell, yeah. You're going to be like, look at this sexy guy who looks like he's in "Seinfeld." Yeah, the '90s, great '90s guy, handsome '90s guy. I said the water cost of almonds make them taste better to me. And I'm sorry I said that. Let's see. I fat shamed an imaginary cabinet secretary. And that's it. Do you have any second thoughts? Yeah. I would have liked to have mentioned the fact that we need to vote. Oh, yeah. And I'm trying to remind people, doesn't matter what you believe, we just need to vote. The fact that we have what's left of an amazing democracy here in 2026, and that we still can't get the kind of turnout that you would hope to have. And I don't want to tell anybody who or what to vote for. I do. Yeah, no. I think we're safe to do that. Well, on this show. But I think we need to vote. And I talked about kitchen table issues. And I think that we need to expect our candidates to actually be asked about food policy. It's never asked in a debate forum. What's your food policy? Do you have any? Do you know how many local politicians I saw at the Minnesota State Fair? None of them had a food policy. Like, well, I'm doing intermittent fasting. Not like that. That's not a food policy. What's interesting about what you just brought up also is that it leaves the environment wide open for people like RFK Jr. to seize on. And that's how they do the Maha thing. It's interesting. I think AOC recently was making inroads with a bunch of Maha moms to bring them back into a sense of normalcy with something along those lines. So you're absolutely correct on that. Yeah. And I'll just say, why aren't people showing up? Well, part of it is because the media environment is so terrible. And the kind of conversations we're having are being had on platforms that do not have our interests or they don't have Hassan's interest, but don't have the interest of helping build a pro-democracy, progressive, liberal movement. And so if you want to have conversations like that where we can have these disagreements without having to worry about people approaching it in such bad faith, I hope people will sign up. We'll sign up at crooked.com/friends to become a friend of the pod and join the community we're trying to build here, an independent pro-democracy, progressive media company. And to your point, if you go to votesaveamerica.com right now, there are ways that you can get involved in a race right by you. We are in the homestretch. The election is less than two months away. This is the moment where you've been listening and angry and anxious. Now is the time to step in and do something because don't you can't trust. Yeah, the polls look great. We have no idea what's going to happen. And by the way, you wake up the day after the election. And we got so close in a few key Senate races. But close won't matter if Alito or Thomas decide to retire next year. So please sign up at Vote Save America. And that is our show. Thank you so much to Assam Piker and Andrew Zimmer. There are 46 days until the midterms and we'll be back next week with Louis Vertel, Nina Parker and Lisa Gilroy. Love It or Leave It is a Crooked Media production. Our show is produced by Kendra James, Bill McGrath, Kelsey Gante and me, John Lovett. Our production team includes Hallie Kiefer, Sarah Lazarus, Raman Borsellino, Peter Miller, David Tolles, Claudia Sheng, Jay Banks, Raul Calderon, Gavin Purcell and Matt DeGroat. And our production staff is proudly unionized with the writers of Guild of America East. Long play, our docu-series exploring the people and forces shaping the South is back. They're simple intentional practices, tools you can carry with you long after you leave. Outdated technology isn't going to improve a disconnected healthcare system. So what will? At Optum, we wake up every day and work for better. We call it healthy optimism. It's how we use insights and technology to help providers focus less on paperwork and more on patients. Will we fix it all overnight? No. But we'll wake up trying again and again until healthcare works as one for everyone. That's healthy optimism. Learn more at Optum.com.