Leon Kofoed 2026 - OCR CWC Brisbane

Leon, welcome back to the OCR-CWC podcast. Thank you so much since I've been here last time. We've added a C for community. That's pretty exciting. I haven't added any letters to my own GM. That would have been cool though. Just Leon, something, something like secret. Like Matt Beat Davis, where everybody's like, "What is the B?" "What is the B?" Actually, no, but I don't know if I'm allowed to say. So we're going to keep that a state secret for the OCR community. What about Leon J. Cofford? That could be really cool. Anderson may go at some point. It's, I've learned as an adult that Anderson, my real last name, my legal last name, is actually not really related to family. It's just like something that plucked in in the middle of things, which is a very Danish name. But I think with future holds, a potential name change, which, you know, classically happens around marriage or something similar, I think Anderson could be very, that would be an easy sell if somebody's trying to pluck in another name. Another name. Because he teasing us on some news that we're not going to have a time to get into. Well, if somebody's like, "We should change your last name Leon, marry me. You should definitely de-me." That's, it's the right time to do it. It's the right time to do it. It works though. Two kind of two names of a similar length really work, don't we? So. Yes, but Cofford ain't going anywhere. Good. We like it. But yes, we did. We added a C. I mean, we didn't add community. Community was always there. But we put it into the name, which has been definitely a conversation, hasn't it? Out there. It wasn't necessity based on everything that happened with the federation and the federation growth. I think a lot of people in the OCR community has been very confused. I've been trying to talk quite openly as well about what's been happening with world obstacle, Fiso, UIPM. I've been going to the events. I went into the organization. I think you're a genius, but you are. No, I think more than I'm just like, I'm just a very focused nerd. And I've been trying to go to all the events. You know, I've gone to our World Championships nine times, which is the amount of times it took for me to finally win it, which was, yay, amazing. And you only missed one. Was it COVID that you missed or was it the first one? No, no, I didn't. The first one. Very first one. 2014. I don't think I really knew about it. That was a long time ago. Yeah, I think like obstacle wasn't, I don't think we had abbreviated into those yards at that point in Denmark. I was just running events and I was midi into it. But I didn't quite understand that you could qualify and go to Ohio in 2014. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do know. Nor did I consider myself any bit of an athlete. Like 2014, I did, I was in America at the time of the event because I was doing an exchange at Tulane University where I did all my finance, or at least international finance subjects for my bachelor degree. And I remember wanting to do a Spartan in Mississippi, but the Spartan race was so expensive compared to Danish OCR events. I was like, no way, I'm driving Mississippi. So my skin is really on sentence. Yeah, that's not happening. And then a year later, I had massive regrets because I, you know, then I was really getting really into it. But it was until after 2014, I stopped drinking. Like, it's not that I had an alcohol abuse problem. But I was a young student who was overly extroverted and social. And when I was stayed in America, was the third time I went to a new place. The bonding moments were always around alcohol. And at this point, I was like, you know what, enough's enough. Like, I will try to not drink in 2015 and see what happens. And I found like so much new energy. And anybody who's tried to do a similar move, it can relate to the fact that you also, all of a sudden lose friends. It's not that you can't talk to like the same people anymore. Like, I'm really like, I'm not happy to lose people. But at some point when you were the person at the party drinking water instead of beer, like the only person doing that are not taking real shots. The invites are not coming in as much as they used to. Yeah. And also you find different interests. Like I joined a run club. Well, it's not you find the different interests, don't you? Yeah. And I started going for like long runs and pasta parties instead of tequila shot parties. And I enjoyed the running things a lot more because I had growth there. Like I had really rapid response to running training. In 15, 16, 17, 18, which ultimately gave me an opportunity to do well in obstacle sports. But it's not until 18, 19, I was thinking, wow, I should try to do this really well. Was it 19 that you and I met? At OCRWC in London. I remember interviewing you and he was really quite nervous and I was like, this is really nervous. I think it was 18 because I finished seventh at the short course. And I was almost in podium like position at some point. And then I just kind of blew out of energy. And in 19, I had a second ahead of John Alpen. I snuck into first place on the Gippon obstacle. You remember in London, if anybody's listening to this, they were there, you remember this massive tent. Huge tent. Huge tent. Then you went in and out of a couple of times to do obstacles. And heading out before the last running bit, you had to do the Gippon. Yeah. And I was just a couple of groups ahead of Alpen at this point. And I was like, my mind was exploding. So I actually failed the obstacle. I had to redo it because I was so flat-backed at it. I was like, I'm mixed to John. And then that took all my focus. John wins just by existing. Wow. Yeah, honestly, I'm still in, I was listening to John's podcast this morning. The Alpen weight. Where him and Henrietta just talking about, yeah, trail running and training. But yeah, that was 19. But we are now in in 26. And we're going to Australia. We're going to Australia. Australia. I know halfway around the world, new continent, new, whole new group of people. And yeah, new name. It was, it was an interesting thing, changing the name. We had kind of big conversations about it with the big bosses and lots of the lots and consideration going into it. And I was, I like it. You know, it is a mouthful. I still have to say OCRCWC. And because OCRCWC just rolls off the tongue. But I mean, I think it goes back to what originally was started. You know, it does herald that idea of athletes first and come on, come on. Just everyone being in it together and bringing in other brands, which is something that we talked about with the two events in mammoth of, we need to bring in other brands. We got Savage and with the Vula Vula Shea in 24, which is fantastic. But this year, you know, they're working really hard on that. And I just saw why real warrior from New Zealand was introduced. Why real warrior is a small local event around Nelson at the southern island of New Zealand. I haven't gotten around to doing it, but I've heard loads because I've traveled to New Zealand a couple of times. But no, that's exactly what I was trying to hint at with like this. There's been like the federated championship, the Eurochamps World Champs, now the UIPN. And I'm very much into this for obstacle racing, not for choosing sides. And throughout this entire development process of becoming the community world championship. And there's been a couple of World Championships. And Spartan has definitely added a couple of more or more. Absolutely. And it continues to do so. To the bucket. It's pretty simple to me. If you like it, you go race. You don't have to race a certain event. I started coaching last year and I have a lot of athletes who are super stoked about the potential of racing. H Group or Elite at the World Champs or Eurochamps, which are both held in Europe. But I'm talking to them quite a bit about like, are you stoked about it because it has a title or because you think the event is going to be great. Like this year, Ireland was getting a ton of critical thinking and even a big letter from hundreds of athletes about the pricing strategy for the event. Like, is it really worth it? Why are the prices so high? And the organizer, which is a they're called Amwell, had to go out and be like, here's the podcast, here's what we're going to do for pricing. And this is why things are priced a certain way. So I feel like people were trying to go to Ireland because it's like what the federation, one of them to do. Yeah. Which is fine. Like if you're if you're down for that, but don't spend all your money going to an event, unless you really want to go. Like, I want to go Ireland. Exactly. You're like, it's still your money. You're still spending your money, your time, your energy, your effort. Exactly. Even if it was all paid for, it's still your time, your energy and your effort, which is really valuable. Exactly. Look every single person out there. So yeah, I mean, it's a big risk, you know, being in a different kind of being so far away from where everyone's known it for a long time is a big risk. I'm really excited about these guys and I'm very happy to say that publicly like I am excited. And the way I've worded it is, they kind of they're renovated enough to make it a really good event. Like they're not just fine. I think it'll be just fine. You know, it's they're independent. There is as independent as we can get while staying within a brand. They love what they do. They put on a lot of races. And I can tell you from the calls I've had with them and there's been a lot like they are so eager to understand every aspect of it, which is not easy, 'cause it's an individual event and to get it right and to create a really fun, engaging experience for everyone who chooses to do it. - And if this is your mission, you're gonna have a great event. And then it's worth going, but you should never feel pressured to do it. Like I go to events that I'm excited to go to. Like it's a massive travel for me to go to Australia. I've been a couple of times to Brisbane already. I've loved it. So obviously, yeah, I wanna go, I'll make a little trip out of it and I'll get to go around. I'm even hosting some community workshops at two different gyms in the Brisbane area. So that's really exciting for me. It's something I just wanna meet people. I haven't grown out of that yet. Like I just wanna hang out with people and at these events, it's also like the obvious place to meet somebody who you can go for a run with or they know the best cafe for a nice matcha or an almond croissant or something. So I wanna go out and do these things. And so. Honestly, for me, a huge part of these events is the social side. And the more and more I work at them, the harder it becomes to do the social bit. Because you're focused on the work or you don't know what's going on 'cause you're not really in the main thick of it. Traveling and seeing places is fantastic. And I love seeing the people. Like OCR-WC, as in historically, has been a place where I've really got to see so many of my favorite people. And it's been such an enjoyable thing. So there's a whole package that comes up there. And that's part of the thing when they first started telling me about Australia, I got really excited about. I don't know if you're staying on site or if you're staying off-site. - I will. I think Tuesday, Wednesday until Sunday, I'll be on site. So I'm racing Team Races, too. On Thursday. And then I'll do both the races probably on Friday. And if these little legs still work, I'll jump into the Spartan racing Saturday. Sunday, though, I am flying, I wanna say it direct, but it's a three flight out of there. It's a really long trip to Spain because I am doing the Eurochamps. - Oh my God. - Friday after Australia, which I had already booked before I ended up saying yes to Australia. And I was like, "Loof, that's a heavy one, but let's make it work. This is gonna be a blast." - But you can stay on site at this race. And I think that's so fun, there's camping options from, reasonably basic to quite fancy. And I just think everyone's gonna be in one place together, right now you wake up, step outside. And I just, when they told me I was like, "This is so much fun, this is so much fun, that is my ideal kind of trip." And I'm really excited. I'm really excited for what it's gonna be like. - Absolutely. And I think like, history, I don't know the back end of this, but historically we've always been at a place for two years. So I hope this is a two year contract. I don't know, so I'm just saying I hope because normally if you go to a place the first year, the people who are a little bit hesitant to go, they will look online and be like, "What is this? What's happening? What's going on?" And then next year jump into it. So I'm also stoked to be one of the first movers to go to Australia and then be like, "Yeah, this event was really dope. I hope so." And like honestly, if it's not, I'll be as always transparent about that as well. But everything else is, everything is looking really good right now. - Yeah. - I have of course big ambitions for doing well in the. - Of course, you do, you've had a piece of experience. - Team Racy's ended 3K. If I get whooped by Alec and Jan Zada and the other fast guys, there's just the local heroes, the McKenzie and Dylan Patti. I know Mitchell Green is not going and Reece is coming from New Zealand. I've done a little bit of research here to see, like who is actually coming? - Yes. I am. And I mean, Austin Assar is probably gonna whoop me on that 15K as well. And I can't, I can't, like, I love hanging out with Chris and Austin. So I'm still. - Chris and Austin, I got like casually dropping in there. - Cashually dropping in there. - It's huge, it's huge. But I know you've had a really good few years at OCRWC. And I'm very pleased to be able to see that. It's happening. So I think it's, when we were first started talking about it and I was like, I really hope, I really hope you'll be there. I really think it kind of. It's a little bit of a seal of approval in a way. Like, I've done it before, I'm doing it again. And what I do love about you is you'll say, "Maybe it wasn't quite OCRWC or this wasn't perfect." And I like that. You know, I love authenticity and it helps to grow. So. - No, I got a lot of love going to these events. And I'll be. - Good sign. - Well, try to be transparent. Like, I went to Abu Dhabi last year to do, in December, to do a fun run. And I just had no fun. Like, the design of the course on the, what is it, fifth year? Was just so ridiculously boring, which was a shame. Like, and I didn't run it competitively, competitively. And when you're running competitively, you can run a kind of boring course, but at least you're battling people. - Yeah. - Like, I will. - That's the fun, isn't it? - That's the fun. - You're running next to people. And, but I ran it just to like, "Ah, I'm out here. I'm in the UAE anyway for some other training and racing." I'll go run this half marathon in the desert. Oh my goodness. Like, I understand the route has to be changed and stuff, but this year I was like, "Guys, guys, why do we do 20 out of 21 kilometers in sloppy deep sand? Like, why? It's not very entertaining. Takes forever. My toes hurt. Like, I was down. So, I'm probably going back again in December because I like to vibe around the event. But if the course doesn't change, I'm not running it. Like, I will just go and have food and hang out with people. It's like, "You know, I've never been to the Abu Dhabi race. I've never actually been on site yet." - It's pretty. Like, it's definitely unique and it's a cool experience. And I think this year is the sixth year, which should mark the end of the second, three-year contract. The Spartans have been pretty open about, like, the contract timelines. - Oh, yeah. We'll see. I liked it when they had the 3K race, like a couple of years ago. I even got fourth at the Spartan Worlds, which is probably, that's probably the best it's going to get, like, to be honest. Like, I still, I have not unlocked, not from lack of trying, the running capacity to play with the boys who can just run a half marathon in the desert like, and do it fine. That's just, like, I'm just not capable. And it's not like I've given up, like, I'm still training pretty aggressively. And I'm very, like, in a firm belief that I can grow as an athlete still, which is dope. Like, it's really nice to be 34 and be like, "No, I can get better." - It's such a baby. - It's such a baby. - It's such a baby. - It's crazy. I'm competing with people who are a lot younger than me and older as well, but like, I'm still really believing I can get better. So I'm putting in the work, but after like, many years of trying, there is a little bit of acceptance about like, okay, this is probably my limit. So if my goal is to race and win, maybe that's not where I have to do it. So that's why I'm not going there with that mindset. I believe I can win Australia. I believe that course, I, the terrain, the obstacles. I'm like, all right, let's make magic work. I believe I have a good shot at Eurochamps this year. Sure, 3K, could be great. Third title, wow, that would be dope. But otherwise, race for things that you think are fun. And I think it's fun to go like, meet people and run a good course. Winning is fun as well, but it's not like the only thing. - It's not the only thing. And actually whilst you were saying that and you were saying, you know, you used the words kind of like, "accapacity." It wasn't those words, but that's kind of where you were going. And I was like, what a great thing, though, to know that you've taken things as far as you've pushed yourself and you have the ability to push yourself to your capacity. 'Cause I think many, many, many people just don't have it in them to be able to push to that point. And that might not be, somebody could be taking a gold medal and not pushing that hard. There's probably no satisfaction in that. It's like, oh, I've got a gold medal that's forgotten about a few while, but I worked really hard and I achieved these things 'cause I consistently put the work in. That's what being human is all about, isn't it? Rockres is so much more important and more intrinsically valuable than results, especially the easily earned results. I just very limited every once in a while. I do dream of showing up to a race, especially a race with price money, with limited competition and be like, "Well, I just cruised it and I won how amazing." That would be great. - Well, to have a payday for sure. - Yeah, like for sure, but like, I don't want that on a regular basis. And I don't have that on a regular basis. I'll show up to a tiny race. I showed up to a tiny race in the Netherlands for fun to try like survival style obstacles. And yes, and Stein was there. And I was like, great. I didn't go out to race hard. I was just running a tempo workout, but I was still like, yeah, you show up to a small race, you're still gonna get in what? Like, so, but I mean, I know other athletes who have competed in fields with less competition for years, and it's just not exciting. And I get it. It's fun with your little medal, but you want to battle it out. - Well, that's been a conversation that's been had about OCR CWC for a few years now. And I understand the psychological standpoint. And it's a really difficult one, 'cause obviously when COVID happened, the team eventually chose to remove age group qualification because so many races closed down, there wasn't the opportunity for people to qualify. I mean, if you look at states, there are very few small brands that are giving people opportunity and for a lot of people they went, but I don't want to do it if I'm not working for it. So, well, it's still the same course, you're still going to have the same time, but I don't want to do it if it's handed to me on a plate. And it is that whole psychological movement. If it is easy, it ain't worth it. I wanted to earn their place and I totally get that. And I do actually bring the conversation up very regularly of we should bring that back. It's just the logistics and not that simple. And I'm not a logistics gal. I'm just like, I'm greedy and I just say the things I want and try and force people to do it. But I'm not going to make it out. It's like a more of a life conversation I'm having with my best buds every once in a while as well. I have this annual survival trip with my two best buddies. And this year we had our 16th year in a row. We went to Norway. We did a really, really, really hard trip, which was dope. But one of the boys is becoming a, he's having a baby this year, which is the first in the group, which is amazing. It's a blessing. And we just think like the next couple of years may be like less dangerous or wild as our trips have been in the past. But anyway, the point is on these trips, we, of course, we have a lot of great conversations, a lot of healthy bullying, a lot of growth. And sometimes we write down questions throughout the year, we have to bring up here. We're like, I have been thinking about this thing for eight months, like how do I solve it? So we solve problems. And it's really nice. But one thing we've often spoken about is exactly like getting things the hard way or the easy way. And it's interesting because if you get things easy, like for example, money is like an easy thing to, it's very tangible. Like if you have a wealthy family and you have access to money easily, unless you have some other element of like hardship in your life that teaches you a level of appreciation, it's very hard to actually appreciate the opportunity you have financially in this regard. And it's the same with other things as well. Like if you just hand it out your success and you're used to that, because you're very talented or you're told you're very talented or mommy and daddy told you you're a unicorn and you deserve all these things. Like it's, you need to have some kind of a struggle to truly appreciate things as well. And that's why we go on our struggle trips as well, because like sometimes my life is not necessarily living in a bobby castle, everything's easy. I would not dare to say so. But, um, but on the whole, actually, it is for all of us in a way. Yeah, exactly. The fact that we're here is amazing. But these trips are supposed to be hard, supposed to be difficult for that reason, exactly. Like you have to suffer to get from A to B, from B to C to D. And in your suffering, you realize all these things. And of course, this is a very not necessarily unique, but special way of going on vacation. Like it's the only like real vacation I have every year where I don't focus on my training. I don't focus on what I eat. I don't focus on socials. I disconnect properly. And that's like, that's the best thing I can do. I highly recommend to anyone listening or do a hardship with your friends. It's why people like OC are though, isn't it? Because it's that accessible hardship. And for a lot of people, I mean, for me, it's hard. I find it really hard. And a lot of people, oh, girl, it's hard. Tough is times. God, nuclear, where we had London 2018, 2019, and I got taken off the course of hypothermia. UK chat was like, that was horrible. It was a lot to kind of deal with mentally of God, I suck. And so I think that's why people like it. And you and I are very good at going off on tangents and talking about things. But we're here to talk about you going to Australia, what you want to do in Australia. And catch your eyes going on with you. We've not spoken. No, it's been a hot minute since we've done. And I think I've done any podcasts in the OCR realm. Well, I mean, about a year ago, I mentioned on socials that not that this was it with obstacle at all, but I had accepted a job offer, a full time job offer, which I have to admit was mega scary for me, because I am a more of a pot time kind of guy. No, I was offered everything I thought I wanted in business school. I had a manager position. I got to skip some levels at the corporate ladder. I got offered significant money. It was in the realm of data science, which is what I'm kind of educated in. I have a master's in economics and mathematics. I specialize in multibariate statistical analysis, which is a fancy way of saying data science. Or it's actually the correct way of saying it doesn't matter. So I got this gig. And I got it because I posted on LinkedIn about winning OCADO Lucy in Memphis. So I posted a little snippet from National TV, where they mentioned in sport 2024. And there was a snippet of Leon won the world title. And it was a small snippet because this is more like tennis, fat men's handball, soccer, big sports, swimming as well. But I had a little video clip there, which I thought was really nice. And the Danish media took it in. I was very proud. I was like, wow, in a national recognition. So I posted on LinkedIn about the fact that I'm actually proud about this medal, because I would have been proud of the effort anyway. But what I've always dreamt of doing as an athlete was running-- let's call it the perfect race-- the race where you feel like you can give what you have. And you've put in the work. You've been intentional. If it pays off or doesn't pay off, if you get booked, you get booked by somebody better than you, I don't personally mind that very much. I am an acceptance. It's annoying, but I accepted. But I ran really well. I beat people on paper would say, better than me, because I made better decisions, better track, and I just put it together. And I was so proud of this moment. It's like, wow, I mean, same. So I shared it on LinkedIn. And at the very bottom of my little bit too long LinkedIn post, I said, so if you know any cool opportunities, I should pursue now is the time to text me. That's when I got that job offer. So I didn't have to apply for a job. I didn't actively look for full-time gig, but it popped in. And I took it. And I thought, maybe this wouldn't be the end, but it would be a radical change. And I thought, with full-time, came other things that I actually really wanted, that I didn't have in sport. So even though I was living my absolute dream of being a full-time athlete, I also felt like I was a little bit done with doing that, because when you're full-time athlete, your emotions are insanely linked with how your body is performed. You get an injury. That's like such a blow. You perform poorly in your training, which you will do like a third of the time anyway. A good rule is you have a third of your time in training is shit. A third of the time is like, OK. And a third of it is going to be like, woo-hoo, run outside. I feel great. But two thirds of your training is going to be na-a-to-like-e-e-e-e. And I could feel it leading into the World Champs in '24. I was getting pretty exhausted about having sports as my primary focus. So that's also why I'm in 2025. I was like, now I really want to start coaching. And I want to do something which is not just about me winning something, but about why I started all this, which is community, people, connection, education, sharing. So I took the job. I thought I would kind of slow down. And I had been at this office, which is like a very classic office, low-sealing, cubicle style. I didn't know how the office would feel to look, because I did the job interview, or did the case presentation online, because I was full-time athlete, competing somewhere. Nailed it, got the job, showed up on day one. And I was like, all right, this is an adjustment. I'm just going to-- Where is this on-site? This is going to be interesting. So I really know that if you work, culture is more important than what you actually do. Especially if you're spending 40 hours a week sitting next to people. So I was trying to build a culture that was a little bit different. It was part of my mission as manager, because there was a lot of people leaving the business quite recklessly due to the fact people could get paid more for the same stuff elsewhere. And people generally like to move to where they can get paid more. So my job was simple. And my mission was simple. Create culture, create something that makes you want to stay. Even if we can't pay you the same as you can get paid elsewhere. But I'm telling you, I tried. I started the running club at the social events. I put an extra hour as I stayed on Fridays. I had beers. I-- you have beers? I know. I put in an effort, and it just didn't pan out. I saw this real few months ago. It's like, you should be with somebody who asks how was your run instead of like, you have to go on another run. And this was a very simple way of saying, be with somebody who supports what you want to do in a culturally. And at this workplace, it was like, when you ran to work, what the hell? Why are you doing this? You should eat more cake. So you're around people who are insecure. about themselves and they have not figured out why. So they just pushed that on you because you were trying to do something they are not trying to do. - Yeah. - I'm not telling pregnant people at the office not to make a baby 'cause I don't have them. (laughing) Like seriously. They were like, "Why are you doing all this for it?" So I'm like, "You, well, I'm not doing it, so why are you?" I'm like, "That does matter. I like doing it. I like wanting to work. I don't like getting up early, but I like getting in a 10k before I have to sit down and say, "You're talking about this, "like the sensor, interesting." And I wonder how you would do it. And I wonder what people's residence was really and there's so much going on there, isn't there? - I'm sure with another crew of people, I would have loved working there and I would have still been there 'cause I like working in data science. I like the maths of it. I like what you can do. I think that's really interesting. But the culture was not there and I ultimately did the product sold by the business, what it was, I was a shit product. So I'm happy I'm not there anymore, but I had to redefine my life last year 'cause I thought I had this, I've won my medal, I'm gonna change things up, I'm gonna do this and I thought I wanted all the things that came with it. Some kind of stability, spent more time at home, be way more open for a relationship that would be proper long term. And I had all these ideas and it kind of blew up in my face and the only safe path for me to choose after that was sports because that's what I've been doing for years. And luckily I didn't shit the bed on sponsorship and I really enjoy coaching. So I decided now was the time to expand get a grip training. I added more athletes, we're doing insanely well now 'cause I just love it. Like I coach as a community coach, but individually. So everybody gets the individual program, the individual talks, individual communication, but we also have a community group of people that are meeting up at events around the world. Like on Saturday, three people, three different countries are meeting up at the same event. - Wow. - And they're gonna share tips and tricks and some of them even gonna start at the same time and raise each other like it's, ah, I love it. - That's the culture you're talking about. That's the culture you're talking about, but in a different way. And I really, really do think, you have to do the things that you really want to do to know whether it's the right thing to do or not. - Yes. - Me and my mom always say this, I was just saying to her, "I love sewing." I did my degree in textiles and fashion. I did a master's in fashion and I went to work in London. And it was everything I wanted. I was working for a mature designer in a cell, like it was great and I just wasn't happy. It was, I was like, this is not, this is, I'm not a doctor, I'm not saving anyone's lives. This is too stressful and I left now and back up North. And I still love doing that, but just not as work. And actually the thing I do for work is nothing to do with the things that I love. Had I never done it, I would have always been going, "God, I wish I'd done that." Imagine what my life would be like if I'd done it. I think it's really, really important for people to go, I have an idea. I have a dream, I want to try it. Nope, not for me, that's fine. And decide it's not for them. Not give up because it's too hard or because it's not quite giving them what they feel, but it's not right for me. And so I've got nothing but respect for that. This is why I want, I'm gonna try it. Nope, don't want it. In fact, I've got so much respect for people being able to say this is not what I want. 'Cause it's scary. - Oh, it's terrifying. And also I've had to make tough decisions before about first of all gambling on sports, not gambling on sports. Like I'm not betting on horses or anything, but gambling on myself in sports. - Oh, okay, I'm just thinking about gambling. - No, no, no, no, no. Like a gambling on myself as being capable of sustaining a financial life that made a little bit of sense, going to all these events and choosing to pursue my dream, same when I started OCR training Denmark back in 2016, next to studying and having a part-time job. I was like, I really want to do this for the, it's all like you make an effort and you got to try it out. But maybe the most important thing through that has been that I just do strategic, the word is not gambling. I just do strategic choices. So risk, strategic risks. Yeah, so if I'm gonna pursue being a full-time athlete, I will before I quit like an income job, make sure my financial situation is at a place where I can, I can afford it. And since I come from a family with zero money or a negative amount of money and most of that anyway, I have to do that myself. Like it's a Leon job to make sure that that's the case. So when I talk to athletes who are, you know, wanting to pursue a full-time sport career, now it's mainly in high rocks. I talk to people who want to do that or in obstacles still. It's just an important conversation that you have to be, you have to be realistic in what's your allowed risk here. And for me, I was pretty aware of that all the way. Yeah, I was very aware. So yeah, same thing. When I stopped there, I was aware of the risk that came with it, but I could also afford it because I just had like almost half a year of getting paid in a manager's fee. So I was like, if I'm going to burn the money by making this choice, you know, no big deal. Life is way more important than doing that. But I still have great support for my sponsors. I'm now 11 years, no 10 years with with Gaman. Signed another couple of years with BodyLab. So for a year now, it's great. I'm really, really, really, really happy. Still looking for like that one sponsor that's going to make this dress go away, but hell aren't we all? But yeah, social media is a and sports is a difficult game to do this with. It is a difficult game. It's a difficult game when it's based on repeated performance. And a lot of things like the social that are completely out of your control. It totally is. And also it's, you really don't get rewarded for your efforts in the past that much when you start working with a new brand. You talk to a new brand and they're like, oh, you have to prove this. And like, I have proven this to 25 brands the past 10 years. I'm not going to prove this to get your shoes. Like it's too crazy. You know what though? I'll say that you're, you are, you're very reliable and you're very consistent. And you're very, you're good at what you do. I think brands get used to people promising a lot and not delivering it. So use. I believe so. But you deliver. You're very easy to work with. I've worked with you quite a few times. You do what you say and you do what you say you'll do. So I'm trying. And I like to do a little bit extra because I think it's, yeah, I think that always goes notice. Well, I always notice it. Not just think you're going to be a happy person as well. If you give extra, it's like it's good for your partners that you're working with. It's good for yourself. Like you don't do it for the precious process. The right thing, like make, make an actual effort. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm trying, I'm trying to make an effort. And that's also why I'm hosting these community events illustrators. I think that's going to be really nice. I'd like to meet people. It's not for a financial gain. Oh, gee. There's a, there's a kiddie right here. That's trying to get all the things. I know I can tell you got distracted about five minutes ago. Yeah, this cat is like, this cat is like, oh, can you cuddle me? I'm like, kiddie, I'm doing things. You can pick her up. That's okay. Yeah. She left now. She's solid, but now. Are she cat stage fright? Probably a stage fright. No, I want to, I want to do stuff like that in Australia. And if I meet a couple of athletes that want to join the roster, forget a group, a training, amazing. If not, no big deal. I'm just excited to get to meet people. And since I am in Australia for a while, because it's like a massive travel. And I want to do a little bit of vacationing and experiencing, maybe even try surfing. I'm scared of fish and sharks. So, I'm so scared of sharks. But surfing is fun. Yeah. Yeah. I'm as well. And I'm small. I'm an easy, I'm an easy, like, snack. I'm so sized. I'm so sized. Yes. And all these like Australians, they have like their man buns and beard. So they look like something that will get in your teeth. Like, I think I will look a little, I'm growing my hair out just so I don't look at it. I'm going to find a little ponytail. And otherwise, for the rest of the year, I'm keeping it pretty open. I used to run like one to two year plans for sports, but I'm running much shorter term plans now. Yeah. Which is giving a bit of freedom. And then also allows me to focus a lot more on coaching and on being with the people I want to spend time with. Yeah. Perfect. I mean, that's what life's all about, isn't it? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. No, I'm. So is there anything we should know about Australia? Well, I got a sneak peek at the course maps yesterday, talk through them, and they're looking good. That's what I'll tell you. I was thinking about you while through talking about the 3K. And I was thinking about your feedback from mammoth. And I was like, I wonder what Leon would say about what's happening here. And I was like, I think he would like it. I think. Hold on. So we're not running straight out of a mountain. They're the 40% incline. I was like, man, this 3K is about speed. I've won that in 27 minutes, 27 minutes for 3K. That's nine minutes per kilometer. That's. I mean, one of those hills was just upright scrambling. Wow. And then there was a very long sandbag carry, which I got hired filming people on. So yeah. Yeah. But I kind of look, it sounds like a negative way to go with it, but I was looking at it thinking knowing the events in the past, knowing when I've been at them, and what people have commented on, am I seeing any of these comments come up necessarily? And that's not to say that they were 100% perfect and the weren't improvements needed, and we discussed those, and that's, I think, some of it is nuance of, oh, okay, that's how it could be done for this brand that they've not worked with before, but I was really, really impressed, to be honest. - Mm-hmm. - The team events are really hard one to do. We know that, we know how difficult it is to divide the obstacles up, 'cause I mean, basically for anyone who's not been there, you've got a lot of events happening on in a short amount of time, on a limited amount of space. So you can't be shifting an obstacle from one position to another. So you've got a lot of the obstacles for the 15K that you can then pick out for 3K, that you can then loop, do three loops for a team event. - Yeah. - It's kind of magical to me. But I think the team event is really well done. And, you know, we are, we're getting guest obstacles in there. There's gonna be, there's some fun obstacles we've not seen before, because they're gonna be guest obstacles from other races, which I've heard about what's been announced and what's not, so I'm keeping some, but then some key OCRWC obstacles, you only get at OCRWC, you know, Adrian designed obstacles that are still there. I think it's gonna be cool. I think it's, it looks like a really good course. - Stop. - That's what I can say. I'm scared to say more. - Do we know, do we know when ish? This will be published with the courses. - I know everything can be changed because of like, you know, it's hard to build things on the day. - Oh yeah, I know this, I mean, before mammoth, I think three days before I sent an email out saying, you've seen the course, Matt. So we've actually had to change this because the ground is not as steady as we thought, or for example. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I'm hoping Sue and we're wasting on an answer for one thing in particular to see whether it can be done. So, but I know we wanna get this. I just keep forgetting how soon it is. I keep forgetting like we're a month away, I'm gonna be left in a month. - Yeah, so they can, they can, they can. - So yeah, I'm not gonna be in a month. - So yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, I have to head out directly for Spain. It's gonna be a little busy, but that's okay. - Yeah. - That's okay, I'm taking June kind of off from racing. - For me, this is when it gets busy 'cause we start with the championships. There's DLTM and yeah, it's great. I love this time of year. - When is WTM this year? - 26th of June. - Still in the UK? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Oh nice. - Uh-huh. - That's gonna be a blast. Are you guys doing the 24 hour live? - We certainly are. We certainly are. - Holy smokes. That's an endurance event. - Team member with us as well. Who's gonna be rabbit-ing/commentating? I'm not sure if it's been announced yet, but, or if anyone's talked about it, but he has performed very well at that event historically. So it's gonna be really fun. - Very interesting. - Yeah. - Very interesting. And then, and then, - Then Morzeans coming up and then we've got Decker in Manchester, which is gonna be a huge event. Decker fit an ultra at the end of the flight. - More scene. - To come do Decker. - I would like to try Decker. No doubt. I'd like to try Decker. I'd also like to rapid at Morzean as, - Really? - I, - Ooh. - Ooh. - I love you for a second. - I think doing that would be great. - Oh God, the mountains. - Oh, are we? - Yeah, I'm not, I'm at 1% battery. I think this is like our natural limit for what we can do today. My phone's about to die hot. - Well, don't die. - But yeah, I'd love to do that. Yeah, I'd love to do that at some point. I'll be good. I don't want to race in Morsi. I'm not too entertained by racing there, but I love being there. - I was going to sit there. - I love that place. That is a great example of an absolutely stunning race weekend. - Oh yeah. - I think that's, I think that's one of my favorites to, he's gone. Okay. He told me we had to go and I kept talking 'cause that is what I do. But that's Leon Kofford who is looking for, looking for the top spot at OCRWC this year, which is happening in Australia in just a few weeks. New continent, new country, a new team is going to be absolutely amazing. Keep your eye out on social for the course maps and the metal design and all the cool OCRWC stuff and stay with us for all the news. Coming from that event, is happening in Brisbane in May. See you there.