Legendary Hip Hop Producer Reveals UFO Obsession (Ft. Flying Lotus)

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Well, you come from maybe the most kind of interesting musical family I could think of. Alice Coltrane is your, what, is your great aunt? Is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was like Yoda. You know, she was like a Yoda type person. When I play it, it makes me recall Egypt, ancient Egypt. It makes me seem to remember that I have a past, or a history there somewhere. She just had, she was tapped in for sure to the source. Maybe this is something that we were, you know, connected to a bit earlier in our development as human beings. You know, maybe we were closer to God, closer to the source, closer to the stars. You saw a motherfucking, like, frozen alien or something yourself, right? You see like this? I might have. I might have. I saw a thing with three fingers, and three toes. Isn't Jaime Muson part of that situation? He's a known fraud, so like, it's all bullshit, isn't it? I think Spielberg knew some shit. And then he looked around the room and he said, and there are a number of people in this room who know that everything on that screen is absolutely true. People would call in and they're like, we're doing time travel stuff at Area 51. What we're thinking of as aliens, they're extra dimensional beings that an earlier precursor, the precursor of the space program, made contact with. Different parts of the brain have different activities. But you know that, don't you? You people are giving me a lot. Maybe you should interview me. I have to call you creative because you are an amazing director. You make films. You're, I think, one of the best hip hop producers ever. And yeah, man, just an all-around awesome guy. And I didn't even know you were interested in UFOs until we started DMing, I think, on Twitter or something. And that was so surreal to me because I was like, I've been listening to this guy for years. Like, 15 plus years. And he's into the stuff I'm putting out. What's going on? It was pretty surreal for me for you to respond the way you did, too, because I was just like, you know, I felt like I was reaching out to a few people just to try to get some info and some insight on, you know, what people knew. And you responded, and you're like, whoa. I was like, whoa. Because I've been following you, too. You know, so it was a trip. And I mean, I'm really excited to do this. Same, man. Well, you were asking amazing questions. You were like, why can't we just get Lou Elizondo and Kirkpatrick in a room together? Yeah, why not? I'm with you. It was like, why is that so hard? Why are they. Who's not making it happen? I feel like one of them would love to do it and the other doesn't. Yeah, it's a lot of, like, cheap shots from afar. It's like, why can't we get Grush and Elon Musk in a room together? Why not? Yeah. Why not? Who's afraid? Who's afraid? Well, in my experience, it's usually the anti-UFO side that it's like they're. hiding something or guarding something. Yeah, and they probably put up that whole front, like, oh, I have no time to talk to these people who are. They're clearly liars and all this stuff. So, I don't know. It's kind of bizarre for me to, like, on the outside where you're just, like, you're seeing all this. all this testimony and you're hearing all these things and then everyone's just kind of, like, talking in their own little echo chambers and speaking about it and it's just. It'd be nice to just have a round table, all these people. You know, have. What's that cat? Who's the skeptic? The big skeptic? Mick West. Mick West. Yeah. Put him in there, you know. Everybody. Yeah, put everybody up there. Everybody. Let's just work it out together. Do you have any favorite UFO or alien conspiracy? Oh, yeah. I love. I love. There's a few. I love, obviously, Bob Lazar's story. Oh, yeah. It's super amazing. Yeah, and that touches on a lot of the stuff on his shirt, for sure. Bob Lazar's story is one of the. It's like one of the gateway drugs. It is the gateway drug. There's another. I forget the cat's name, but the guy who worked at Raytheon and. Eric Hecker? Yes, that guy. The dude that said that we have a neutrino emitter and detector on the South Pole? Yes, but it also was the reason for the Christchurch earthquake in New Zealand. Earthquake in New Zealand. Yeah. Crazy. And I love that. I mean, I don't know if it's true, but I fucking love that. It's wild. It's such a wild idea. And, you know, I don't know how much of it is true. I don't know what's real, what's not. I feel like he must have been there. I think there's photos that he shared. He was at Raytheon. Yeah, he was there. But, you know, he said a lot of stuff was like overheard, like water cooler talk. Right. So, you know, who knows what that even means. But, yeah, Stephen Greer, fascinating dude. Yeah. He hates you, bro. He hates me. Yeah. I loved watching that episode of him talking to you, man. I'd never seen him be so fucking mean. He showed up to that. Dude, he was like, he was out the gate like not fucking with you. He called me a dilettante like four times. Dude, he said a lot, man. He said a lot. Oh, if you let me finish, I'll tell you. He was like, look, I've been in this for 30 years. He was like, you don't really know anything. Yeah. Okay, I'm sorry. But it's funny, though, man. I don't know. I was actually on my way here. I was thinking about how just thinking about the community in general because I've, you know, ever since I've started liking tweets, all I get is UFO stuff in my feed. And there's like, you know, the usual suspects who are posting stuff, John Greenwald and what was that? UFO Joe. UFO Joe. Yeah. UAP Gerb. UAP Gerb. He's amazing. And I was like, but I always find just the auxiliary community so interesting. Yeah. And I don't really engage with them. I'm kind of a lurker. That's good. That's a better position to be in. Trust me. But there was one time, there was one time I jumped into a conversation. It was about, it was one of those UFO accounts that was talking about the Skinny Bob stuff. Oh, yeah. And like, the Skinny Bob video. And I was like, there were people just talking about like, oh, you know, this video is amazing. It's clearly CGI. I know. I said that and people were pissed. They were mad. They were pissed. They were like, who's this blue check I had never heard before? He got a whole bunch of followers on. Like, he's sending disinformation out there. Like, I was like, oh, shit, son. Like, the people want to believe this shit so bad, dude. They want to believe it so badly. And I feel bad now because we're in a time where like, we're making all these crazy AI videos and all this stuff. And it's just like, man, these people, they're, I feel bad. No, it's a religion for most people that are into it. Yeah. Because they're like, if this stuff is real, it has to incorporate into some larger metaphysical worldview. Right. And then it's like, that's all that matters. It's the only thing because then reality is not what it seems. And then you see them get so argumentative and angry and dig their heels and if you hit one of the things that they're like, sure about, and it's one of the things that's hard about the quote unquote communities. You have to, you have to. Dude, I feel bad for you. I feel bad for you. I feel like any time, like after the Joe Rogan thing, I think I saw people just feel like Jesse Michaels is like a paid and somebody's fucking working for the government or some shit. Like, you know, you're like, the billionaires are in your pocket. Yeah. All that stuff. And like, yeah, I think 20% of Reddit thinks I'm like a CIA agent or something. It's ridiculous. It's crazy. Well, it's kind of shitty because not only are there like dangerous situations or like seemingly dangerous situations, I feel like I'm in vis-a-vis those people. Right. But I'm also, And now I'm fucked. Now you're fucked, bro. These motherfuckers are going to come for me. They're going to get tracked. You don't fucking believe the skinny Bob video, you dick. I'm blocking you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm saying that you get it on both sides when you get deep. enough. get like the conspiracy theorists think that you're part of the establishment right and then the establishment is probably keeping tabs on you and you're like fucking hey this is crazy so thanks yeah thanks oh man well this is my shit is tapped now it wasn't tapped before just be in here with you oh that's funny yeah well i don't know where do you think it goes do you think it um what just the whole ufo conversation do you think this ends with something get getting unveiled the area 51 a saucer and a hanger do you think the president makes i feel like that moment right there the president makes announcement i always think about that and i always think about how many people be like well trump said it i don't believe it right right more than there's the people that are trump said well i definitely believe yeah but i know that the weight of that is somewhat diminished in this term yeah yeah yeah yeah it's something about it i mean if he comes out and says that shit everyone's gonna be like well why did he say that totally what else what else what well we know already but where's the video they show you the video yeah it's like well it's ai yeah oh well i mean honestly you gotta be like hey they gotta be here with us yeah you know and and like it's gonna take so much i think at this point you can have material i got this piece of metal scan it yeah you saw you saw a motherfucking like frozen alien or something yourself right did you see like i might have yeah i might have i saw a thing with three fingers and three toes the the tridactyl beings in peru from dated from the nazca period where there's cave art all over there one of the the um bioinformatics genetics people found a mutation that matches a human mutation that involves digit differences on the finger crazy stuff that one of them has a fetus that might be tridactyl inside of it yeah eggs right one has eggs yeah one has eggs so it's like but yeah isn't jaime muson part of that yeah right situation he's a known fraud so like it's all bullshit isn't it and you know i don't know i'm just saying and i'm i met i spent a lot of time with jaime i love jaime i think he's awesome i went to the the unveiling oh you did yeah i went yeah it was like yeah it was like down the street from my house basically so i was like shit i'm going there i'm going to check that out what was your take when like on the spot with the with the beings um well they didn't have them there it was a presentation like saying that they are you know they were showing the photos and the the x-rays and all that stuff yeah um so it was a little hard to really have an opinion when you don't have you're not seeing it with you sure but i just take it all with a grain of salt i find it fascinating it was i had a great time yeah met a couple cool people there yeah and left that's the move man you you have the right orientation towards this whole subject which is like it's fun and like we'll see what happens we'll see what happens um i will say though there's times where i'm like nah man this is real as hell you know there's been there's been those moments but then there's been moments where you know it's just like well of course it's us yeah of course it's our technology why would they want to say right why would they want to admit that um you know we're making all these crazy things why would they want to share that with anyone i think the way to back them into a corner is you go as deep as you can on the gravity stuff and then you go as deep as you can on the ufo stuff and then it's like okay unless you have all these fighter pilots lying then one of these is right yeah yeah so i would think hey man i who's i'm not saying the pilots are wrong but maybe they're seeing lockheed martin's stuff yeah and i don't know the whole um what jay barber jake barber jake barber stuff but the sky washer stuff yeah it's really fascinating super trippy really interesting that when jake barber came out on that was it with ross colhart when it came out man that video he was like talking the whole time me and my buddy was like all right let's take a shot if he blinks i didn't blink at all we were sober like motherfuckers but like but man it's it's it's really interesting fascinating stuff and i don't mean to poke fun or whatever but i i think it's i mean if you follow this stuff i really do hope that you have a sense of humor about it because you need to you got to it's it's just like you know you get so worked up people get so worked up over these things i can tell just by the tweets and seeing stuff um but yeah people need to touch grass and that's right you know sometimes people get so heated i'm like just relax it's all good yeah it's all good it's all good you know if it if it is true your life is not going to change yeah still gonna have to go to work tomorrow that's right yeah yeah yeah whatever it is at least right now is like weakly entangled with our reality like we are you gotta still be a good person you gotta pay your bills you gotta do all these things that like yeah aliens don't really affect it you know how we're always diving into the edge of science and consciousness on this show lately i've been thinking a lot about aging not just in terms of years but in how it actually feels in the body slow recovery lower energy that middle-aged fog that sneaks up on you i feel like i can barely go out and drink alcohol anymore that's why i started using something called qualia senolytic and it's been a major shift for me let me explain as we age our bodies accumulate what scientists call senescent cells also known as zombie cells these are worn out cells that stop dividing but don't die they hang around in your body draining your energy clogging up your recovery and generally making you feel older than you are qualia senolytic is a first of its kind supplement formulated with nine plant-based compounds designed to help your body naturally eliminate these zombie cells it's not something you take every day just two days a month but it supports your body in aging better at the cellular level since i've started taking it i've felt sharper lighter and like my body's resilience has come back online it's vegan non-gmo and grounded in serious research experience the science of feeling younger go to qualialife.com slash jesse for up to 50 percent off your body and use code jesse again that's j-e-s-s-e for an additional 15 off that's q-u-a-l-i-a-l-i-f-e.com slash jesse j-e-s-s-e for an extra 15 off your purchase thanks so much to qualia for sponsoring this episode and like i'm sorry if if ross colhart really knows where there's a giant ufo he knows i feel like there's ways of leaking that information yeah that doesn't you know get anyone hurt i uh just interviewed him and of course i asked him that is there anything joe rogan just talked about this everybody talks about this amazing bombshell thing that you reported on you know i'm gonna say yeah this ufo possibly found in uh uh that that they needed to build a bunker around that was like you know a mile plus long anything you can say about it do not resile from saying what i've said previously which is that there is a buried or at least built upon ufo that was too big to move and that's it he did not give me the answer tells me you know he might be bending the truth a little bit you know i don't know he he implied and i can say this because he said this to me and it's coming out he was like it's an extremely sensitive site that you would say it's a very sensitive site and he said it's a very sensitive you'd endanger personnel on the ground like maybe soldiers or something so that makes me think like current war zone it's a very sensitive place that should be enough of a guide for you and to reveal the full extent of what i know would compromise the lives of young men and women who are doing good things for america completely separate from the uap program and they're probably oblivious to what's sitting downstairs there's ways to leak information yeah he knows that yeah you know it doesn't have to trace back come to him right ross yeah come on man come on man if you can really change the world yeah you should yeah yeah come on ross so that's it you know it's like i understand his spot though too because say he hasn't fully corroborated that that's true like he's somebody shouldn't be saying shit then he shouldn't be saying shit yeah he shouldn't be going because he's very confident when he says that yeah that's true so it's like i've seen it or you know i remember when those the chinese drones were flying over and he was always like my sources say this and my sources say that he's so confident about sources and then the sources keep changing the story yeah yeah yeah still well he just came out with something about the drones recently his sources did yeah his sources yeah he said that something about the drones being american military exercises like yeah yeah so i don't know his first you know it was like there's some i mean if anyone out there is really about to change the world with this stuff i feel like the powers that be might forgive you might not go to jail forever might not get executed yeah you know i think it's worth i think it's worth it if you really got the goods right yeah like would you do it you'd be the people's champion i would do it if i wouldn't Like if it was like a person that was like you will get me killed or something like i can't do that but if it was like you'd be like julian assange dude like you don't want to you don't want to but julian look at where julian assange is man but it's not a fun life but yeah this is the difference though yeah right is like that information is totally different than true it's not like you're just going head to head with mike pompeo and the cia it's totally it's like this is just pro human you'd be the people's champion yeah yeah yeah i mean people like luigi man whatever like yo that's next level you could play him in a movie what's that you could play luigi in a movie oh i'm down yeah i heard super super mario's brothers were it was a very high grossing uh film so you know you gotta pay a pretty penny if you want me as a you know i'm rocking my green i'm talking about the fucking guy who killed the oh damn man but you know what he's the people he was the people's champ he was a people's champ you know for a while i don't quite know why i mean i kind of get it because united health care sucks you know it's like also fuck that guy not that he deserved what whatever happened but uh yeah it's a weird one i don't think that killing people is the way no to the way forward definitely with anything um but you know in terms of making a difference and stuff if you got the goods mm-hmm like that yeah like ufo goods like that like world changing come on man it's interesting i think you met my buddy chris ramsey we were hanging out in austin amazing magician has an awesome channel area 52 yeah he asked me on the podcast he was like is it the logical conclusion that you will be shown a ufo i hadn't even thought of that that maybe personally yeah like that'd be cool like i wonder if like art bell was shown you know our course yeah like was he shown a ufo like he had these things art arts parts these little bits and pieces of ufo stuff i don't know and i wonder if he was ever given access to anything because he was in nevada area and like i don't know he just had so many crazy crazy whistleblowers back then yeah it's interesting people think the whistleblower thing is a new phenomenon like then people would call in and they're like we're doing time travel stuff at area 51 they know i'm i'm running from them i just quit or whatever like people call in saying this shit it was crazy i i've kind of been running across the country um oh man i don't know where to start they're uh they're gonna um they'll triangulate on this position really really soon so you can't spend a lot of time on the phone so give us something quick okay um um okay well what we're thinking of as as aliens are they're uh they're they're extra dimensional beings that an earlier precursor of the um space program made contact with uh they they are not what they claim to be uh they have infiltrated a lot of uh a lot of aspects of of of the military establishment particularly the area 51 uh the disasters that are coming they the military i'm sorry the government knows about them and there's a lot of safe areas in this world that they could begin moving the population to now aren't but they're not doing they're not doing anything they are not they want the major population centers wiped out so that the few that are left will be more easily controllable discharged well this was certainly interesting we are now on a backup system everybody a backup system and uh that one caller that i had on the air i guess we were about in the middle of his transmission his telephone call which was one of the strangest ones i've ever had and the entire transmitting system by satellite went down here and we were notified we were off the air and it would appear to be from this end and some sort of massive transmit failure so we are now using a backup system to be on the air and not that i would normally believe this kind of thing mind you but i can't help but wonder if somebody somebody zapped us in some way yeah man i mean look if they got the goods someone needs to say something or else you're just going to get a bunch of the same same stuff that we've been seeing i don't it's going to take a lot to move the needle i think at this point you know everyone's like waiting for that movie with the age of disclosure to come out or whatever like that's going to make a difference like it's just going to be another same people talking the same thing ain't showing nothing different yeah so we'll see what happens yeah i'm curious man watch it though what's that i'm still watching it though oh me too it's a great movie do you will you help with the whole thing by making a movie about one of these stories well yeah i would i would like to try my hand at it i get a little discouraged because i know old spielberg's coming out with his disclosure yeah he's gonna do his thing i don't know what what angle his is gonna be uh it's a love story with emily blunt of course it's a love story yeah they're all love stories they're all loves yeah what's the other thing do you like spielberg i i would guess that maybe you're not the biggest spielberg that's funny you say that because i feel like you don't like conventional it's funny you say that yeah i love spielberg really i love conventional movies i love it i love it i love it when you can do when you can do the whole hero's journey thing well and it works yeah it's it's amazing and i'll be honest with you a big part of my love for spielberg and john williams though oh amazing you know i mean the music so like you want to go back to like well giraffe's park is actually like up like top movies oh yeah you know um 10 years old seeing that movie for the first time i want to be a paleontologist after i saw that it was like gonna change the trajectory of my life but i think there was something about his movies with john williams that synergy that connection is just really um it brought in the sense of wonderment oh yeah and in the film and it just made like i didn't realize until like last year i went through a spielberg thing last year i was i watched all of the movies all of them because i was really it was more so a john williams thing i was going through um so i had to watch all spielberg stuff but you know close encounters i had actually never seen that one oh wow and it was like perfect timing yeah all the ufo stuff and um i was just blown away yeah and i saw i'm embarrassed to say but i only saw et for the first no way this year i love et that movie destroyed me i was like i was watching that movie like as a grown man but i was also like a 12 year old boy watching that movie and like the last half hour i just couldn't stop crying cry was like just endless just couldn't stop that movie just destroyed me i could think about that right now probably start crying it's it's so good and when he's biking and you have et with the hood on and these and they starts flying off the cliff or whatever and the john williams john williams comes in and john williams like oh my god i think spielberg knew some shit about ufos i think he has some inside sources yeah because he watched close encounters the third kind of stuff in there do you have the crates that say trw and skunk works in the late 80s when nobody really knew that much about those two frontier r&d something was up he was definitely he was definitely clued in and there was like it was some weird stuff too like the orbs he had some like like orbs that trailed after the big ufo thing and i didn't even know that there's some like weird little they were like here we go just right it was like little little stuff like it was like really the sunburn that he gets when the ufo passes over the mountain which that's really interesting do i need to pick up on oh yeah it's like it's like electromagnetic radiation damage which if you like you know kit green and gary nolan you know cia spooky stuff they're looking at biological effects of people who've witnessed or encountered ufos it's the same stuff now and then et you have the kid lock on with et and they have the same biorhythm and heart you know readings or whatever and that's like jake barber where it's like he's locking on to the sun and then the final one this is my favorite one you've seen back to the future no i live under a rock so he executive produced that yeah so we've talked about this guy thomas townsend brown yeah it's your boy i love that i can't get through an interview without mentioning this anti-gravity amazing anti-gravity inventor but in general relativity time and gravity are related so the whole his whole life he's obsessed with time travel and if you watch back to the future it's tt brown thomas townsend brown flies on his flux capacitor which is capacitor experiment was brown uh it took place in pasadena which is where brown lived that might be coincidental i don't know i don't know i don't know and then it was it was the year that he died it was 1985 and then it goes back to 1957 which is when he proved his experiment and it was powered by mr fusion his experiments were powered by he wanted them to be powered by nuclear reactions i want to watch it again yeah i want to watch the game i think that movie might even because if if some of this stuff is time travel that movie's fascinating because it points to us mistaking the ufo thing for aliens extraterrestrials when actually it's time travel because the kid i don't know if you remember this but the delorean comes back in time and um it hits it goes into the shed and the kid has a magazine like a ufo magazine and he's he's looking at the thing and he goes it has no seams it has no rivets he goes it must be a flying saucer and then and then uh when marty goes he comes out like he's an alien too right that's right yeah that's right it looks like it is so they mistake it and then when marty comes back his father goes he's trying to get his mom and uh dad back together so that he can exist in the future timeline and his dad goes and he's like dad like you know he doesn't call him dad but he goes you know she really likes you like come on get together he goes i wouldn't listen to you unless you were an alien showing up in my bedroom from another galaxy and then he shows up so it's almost like showing how we might mistake and then steven spielberg in an interview says what do you think is more likely uh it you know distant galaxy zeta reticuli you know andromeda you know whatever or did he say zeta reticuli he said one of those i was like i was like damn side he's going there that he's definitely clued in yeah yeah i don't know if he did i might be putting that or or he said and he says is that or is it us thousands of years in the future and they're keeping track and they're keeping track and they're keeping track and they're keeping track and trying to like adjust timelines what if they're not from an advanced civilization 300 million light years from here but what if it's us 500 000 years into the future he said it with colbert recently and he apparently said it to the deadpool creator so i don't know you might know some shit it was in the white house screening room yeah and reagan got up to thank me for bringing the film to show him to show the president the first lady and all of their guests and um and he just stood up and he looked around the room almost like he was doing a head count and he said i want to thank you for bringing et to the white house we really enjoyed your movie and then he looked around the room he said and there are a number of people in this room who know that everything on that screen is absolutely true and he said it without smiling um um but he but but he said that and everybody laughed by the way the whole room laughed because he presented it like a joke but he wasn't smiling as he said it i think it's uh it's perfect that he's doing this movie and you can get him on your podcast oh let's go how do we do that reach out start now start reaching out now well he's a hardcore ufo he he blur you know james fox of course yeah so he like wrote a little complimentary thing like a review for james fox's first movie out of the blue which i haven't seen that one actually it's from 20 maybe 14 or something like that it's from a while ago so it's like just shows how hardcore he's into it man that's wild i think it was funny though spielberg was like i i heard him say something like um he he gave a lot of props to denny villeneuve for arrival and he was like yeah it's the best ufo movie since close encounters damn bro like you you really on your shit like that you really feeling yourself that's great since my movie yeah that's one since i did something arrival is amazing arrival is amazing it's incredible rivalry is amazing do you ever read the book associate was it ted chain story of our time i haven't either so i just want to i have nothing to say about oh be cool if i read it um yeah but yeah spielberg he's he switched on man and uh james fox how do you feel about that moment of contact that i thought that was very interesting i think that's his best movie well i i think the phenomenon james fox is amazing i love him i think he's got the best energy he's like the type of guy i i would love for him to be the guy to film the first ufr find it because he's been he was uh valeting cars and painting fences while he was making his first movies he's so passionate and he just in it for all the right reasons he's so collaborative he just loves everybody so he's the man um the phenomenon i feel like is the best like entry point absolutely you don't know anything i always show that to people who are like right what about what's going on with this i was like yeah watch that one because it's like it breaks it down in the best way it's like best overview gateway best gateway exactly and then moment of contact i think is one of the best docs on this ever so and it's i love that it's so out of left field it's not some official u.s government thing it's like these people in virginia aren't lying about this stuff yeah man it's really really fascinating i just facetimed him he's making moment of contact too oh really yeah what else you gonna say about it there's a lot of new crazy stuff yeah okay yeah well i'm curious yeah curious think that more like it was such a revelation to me to see that you were into this i was like this is the great coolest collision of worlds do you think that more people in just general culture continue because i think it's on twitter it's like you and father john misty are like to me like the cultural icons who are like peeping into ufo twitter and like liking stuff here and there i don't know if you know that i didn't know that that's cool oh it's really random and funny yeah and he'll he wrote like something like uh when i when i heard diana pasolka say that chris bledsoe is the new paul benowitz i realized i needed to get a life or something that was just like recent that's perfect it's like bro like you are deep in it you know at that point that's perfect also dude from what blink 182 oh tom delong i mean he's yeah dude what see that's your autism bro that's your autism you got you got everybody's name like you're so good with names i watch you do interviews all the time and you know everybody the name was like oh yeah i don't know how you do that like somebody bring up some obscure book that someone wrote you know the author's name and everybody who was in it and that shit dude like i forget everybody's name i don't know y'all's name back here you got sam and mauricio are you lying no i'm not lying i got that right yeah but i find that to be like that's actually super powerful that's my first of all it's a totally useless skill no it isn't you don't need memory it's a parlor trick on a podcast no no it's always impressive to me well i appreciate that that means a lot that it's funny it means a lot to sam and mauricio too that you remember their names yeah well hey what can i say i mean uh i think it's i think it's my only skill i did after the rogan thing we hung out at the mothership at his comedy thing and my girlfriend was there and she was talking to him for a bit and he was like it was the best compliment he was like jesse's memory is next level and to me his memory is next level well i mean because it's like he knows all sorts of crazy facts about all like i'm in a narrow domain i probably have a decent memory on some of the other stuff but like he's got diverse interests yeah he's got diverse interests he's actually one of the people who got me to try dmt for the first time no way yeah yeah really back in the myspace days whoa he was he was talking about it and i was like i don't know what to do with it i don't know what to do with it and i think this is even before he was like doing the podcast like that but yeah he was yeah he was early on dmt he was you know he's got me on rick strassman's book and all that stuff and uh i brought some dmt for you i think this would be the most absurd environment don't talk dmt here don't don't do it here don't do it here i would break but you should try it maybe i will talk about that last honestly i don't i've done ayahuasca oh that's right technically i've done it but not the not the fast acting yeah maybe maybe check it out if it comes your way okay yeah yeah check it out you've told me some stories hey you know it's um it's fascinating stuff i feel like my brain don't think of the stuff that that showed me so i find it to be really really interesting yeah that's fascinating it's like you were in another objective reality like where does that if that's not in your mind yeah because you know where is that i always think about you know people saying when they trip they talk about like oh i was i was in jimmy hendrix's guitar when i was listening to his music and all that stuff like jimmy hendrix was nowhere to be found in this reality it was like really just stuff that i'd never my brain doesn't go in this direction but it's funny though because i don't really recommend it to people anymore except people like yourself i feel like my worldview is so trippy though i worry i worry that it was like you're saying that yeah like you're afraid that like you're not gonna come back or something afterwards because i'm already so like my my worldview is very different i think than the average person because i'm in all the weird shit all the time so i i feel as sensitive as i ever have around like you know just keeping this thing on you know straight no i feel that but in the right sentence setting if it were you know to come across my past serendipitously i would do it i would just throw a dmt with that maybe you man i mean who else no no maybe you that'd be awesome be cool i wouldn't do it though that's why rogan got you into it maybe man it's um i saw he follows you on twitter yeah from like forever ago like when twitter first came out you know i could see him liking your music i know he likes hip-hop for sure oh man well that's interesting yeah i don't know i don't know what's up with joe i i find him to be an interesting dude um but as far as dmt yeah man i think um i think you need to try it that would be crazy what's up guys i want to tell you about my new favorite boots these things are epic i've been wearing these everywhere they're called brunt they're insanely comfortable and durable these things last for years and they're super 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you heard about them please support our show and tell them that we sent you the way it came to me though it was so weird because i i remember after hearing joe rogan talk about it i i remember saying something on on myspace just talking about like i'm very curious about it or and then i was in australia i was in perth on new year's new year's day so they celebrate day there um this summer yeah so as uh it was a morning party that i was at it was like it must have been like noon or something like that and i'm like throwing down played a really cool set and i don't usually like toot my own horn if i don't deserve it right like it was actually a good set i played i was pretty wasted though so people like carried me outside carry my big ass outside yo like because i was so wasted i'm like sitting out on on the patio of this venue and some dudes just random aussies came up to me and just like dapped me up and was like yo i heard you want to try dmt and just gave me like a fat sack of it well i'm like i'm like i'm like i'm like and i like an idiot smuggled it all the way back to the states i did a whole tour out there smuggling it the whole way and brought it back i don't i would never do anything like that yeah yeah but uh but yeah it was uh it was some amazing stuff i've never seen any dmt that looked like that ever since actually yeah do you feel like it changed the way you think after the experience you know what it didn't but it it was more so validation to the idea that maybe there is some more than this yeah i think that's what it was helpful for just showing you that there was there's way more going on yeah being behind the curtain you know and i think at that time my life i needed it you know my mom had passed away like a month months before that so i feel like it was really um a way for me to connect to the other side yeah still be here you know yeah um so yeah i think again i don't i don't recommend it to everyone just because i i do feel like if you are susceptible yeah to you know um schizophrenia or any of that kind of stuff they could set you off so do you feel like the pain of your mother passing you say that it kind of influenced cosmic grandma a lot right yeah absolutely was do you feel like pain creates great art and it can spur on great art um i think i think it's a weird one with that is i don't know if if that's real but i'm just grateful to have art to turn to when i'm when i need to go to church it's an outlet yeah i need when i have to say something i'm always so grateful for that to be able to create music um um whenever i need to go back to the source it's kind of awesome like when you feel overwhelming emotions you have like a thing that you can just port it into yeah and i think a lot a lot of people don't have they don't they don't have i'm really grateful for it because you know in a way i get i get my job is to go to therapy yeah yeah pretty much yeah is to just heal you know and um and try to understand more about the world and the universe and stuff and ask questions through the music it's uh it's a it's a great it's a great job if you could smoke dmt with anyone in the ufo world who would it be um good question man i'd be down to smoke one bob lazar i'd be down i'd be down to give these bob lazar in that way man that'd be fun yeah um i wouldn't you know i i respect that experience so much that it would take a lot for me to do it again actually i've only done it like two or three times okay and uh to try it again would be a lot yeah yeah yeah i wonder sometimes some of these ufos might be like it's it's like that is is dmt like you know night vision or like infrared or something and if you're gonna hook those up to the optic nerve you could see that and dmt is like another version of that where it's like a window into i think jake barber was talking about that saying so i think he was alluding to that a little bit and i think that maybe some of the other whistleblowers might have too but like i do feel like there could be some connection i at least the very least that maybe this is something that we were you know connected to a bit more uh earlier in in our development as human beings you know um maybe we were closer to god closer to the source closer to the stars and um i think that part of that was maybe seeing some of those places that you can access on dmt yeah totally and i feel like the reason a lot of people don't believe jake's story is the reason i do believe it because it involves this like mental connection and i think for a lot of people it's like you are grouping in ets or nh non-human intelligence along with psychic stuff yeah give me a break i'm not gonna you know dude i'm gonna be honest with you it was a lot though yeah dropped a lot on the day and it was like even for me who's someone who's like i'm trying to be down yeah you know like i was like oh buddy yeah you're gonna lose some people with that stuff second half of that story you should just stay on the first half show the egg and let it let it go you know next interview you could talk about that but man he dropped a lot on it and didn't blink either i was like bro like you have this like googly eyed i've seen some shit look in that in both of their interviews with ross colter i don't know if it's ross's lighting or if like they've seen some shit you know and like they have that you know kind of you know like i've seen something kind of gnarly grush blinks though yeah yeah yeah jake's got something about that dude that was just like what is going on is he an alien that's buddy that's but um i think it was a little chiller in my follow-up interview totally totally and i'm just like oh my god i'm gonna lose some people with that story just talking shit i'm just having a good time but i i have so much respect for all those cats honestly i think it's um they're all i think they're all brave to just even knowing how crazy the community is knowing how crazy the the stakes are yeah all this stuff i i do i do feel like that it's a level of courage that is is pretty next and these people aren't media personalities they're not trained to be in front of the camera and stuff so you know we've got to give them a pass no they don't know what they're doing often you kind of have to help hold their hand and stuff and like and they're scared and they i've see i see it firsthand because i often i'll get thrown in with them or whatever they get a lot of backlash like like they got randy anderson who he went underground and he saw this like gauntlet thing that like emitted hieroglyphics and he was at he was stationed at naval surface warfare crane in indiana in indiana in 2014 he was taken down a elevator to a deep underground military base and then he was taken basically through a tunnel past a bunch of skiffs into something that said i think it was like um off off world or off planet technology yeah yeah i heard about this yeah yeah yeah and then he's talking to greer he was talking to greer before i met him okay yeah yeah and and i had been talking to him for about six months he was talking to uap curve actually before i met him too oh cool cool and i had a some inklings that like this year was going to be kind of crazy as far as whistleblowers coming out and i was like dude if there's ever a time i think you come out now and he was in vegas and came down to la and but like right after that you have all these guys being like he he's not a green beret and he didn't pass these tests and he wasn't at war and it's like i spent i've got dinner with him the night before i spent a lot of time with him his friends like hours and i've met you know two of his calls you're a psyop dude but i'm a psyop that's right they don't yeah that's right that's right i don't believe you yeah well good there you go there you go but i it's like you know and his friends are like you hear their frustration and you see their dd214 like their background you're like is anybody seeing this and then you have these people i think it's fine and i think he would even say it's fine to go after the experience be like i don't know maybe that was bullshit maybe he was psyoped but when they then they go after his like background is like a war hero it's like come on it's a lot man it's a lot and it's no one wants to deal with that no and anyone all these whistleblowers you know they're like i don't know what to do with that i don't know what to do with that you know and i think it's like i don't know what to do with that i don't know what to do with that watching how everyone's reacting to this stuff they're doing their research why would anyone want to be put themselves out there like that just to get picked apart yeah be called liars and all this stuff and 100 it's not cool but that's not fun it's not fun but i'm optimistic after this wall street journal article the reason being i think it's really interesting they say it's all part of this air force hazing ritual which is really dumb for the ufos and nuclear weapons all these q cleared employees all these guys sue the government right you know or wall street you're gonna follow up and show the program you're not to the uh the american populace dog you can't do that there's like federal torture claims provisions and so they they are they're fucked because i think it's totally fake there's no hazing ritual or if there have been it's been in little spots here and there that does not explain the whole thing so they kind of back themselves into this interesting corner i think that's the problem is trying to blanket all of it ever you know it's like i think so many of these things can be true personally i think there's so many parts of it that that can be true um you there could be there could be future human there could be some grays there could be some stuff that we're doing it could be some stuff that china's doing all these things can exist i think yeah and it probably is yeah yeah i've been trying to figure out personally well how i feel about all this stuff yeah still because i go through this ebb and flow yeah of just kind of being like i'm always going to be fascinated yeah but in terms of my own personal beliefs i'm just kind of always like ebb and flow with it like i'm really in or i'm like i'm like back in and i'm like i don't know so it's it's it's really it's it's really uh something that fluctuates for me but i think i'm always going to be curious i'm always going to be following it whether or not you know i i believe it i just think it's all fascinating especially because it's all playing out on tv in washington and you know we're having congressional hearings about it it's crazy crazy what got you into it to begin with um well i mean i've always been in the sci-fi i've always been into the idea of of aliens and stuff i've never seen anything and if i do i probably can't say anything because i'm like the least credible person out there yeah of course fly a load of saw that of course he did but no i haven't seen anything and um but i've always i've always felt that there there is more out there and um i you know i've made a film uh about a couple films with alien themes yeah yeah and um i think when i was filming ash when we were filming that movie um aaron poll told me about uh david grush because that video the videos of him with uh ross colhart has just come out and i saw that on my timeline but i was kind of i don't know go through but then he was like yo man you gotta check him out i believe this guy and aaron i you i don't i wouldn't guess that he was like really into the topic but um you know i watched it and then i kind of took me down the rabbit hole i guess yeah um but um but aaron you know he's he's wild he he talked to bob lazar he talks to bob yeah and like they were like writing messages to each other i know i'd love to be a fly on the wall for that i know i know you got to get him on the show i would love to well i guess breaking bad is kind of a vegasy show like i don't i'm trying to think where that would even have occurred i don't know how the connection is made but like he's a fascinating cat whoa well ash was amazing man i loved it and this set kind of reminds me i was texting you i was like this is not a set we're in a spaceship we're in a space we're in an actual spaceship yeah and you have the coolest shirt oh you want to show it to the camera we got a lockheed martin aurora antimatter matter reaction anti-gravity that's great i have another one too like the lockheed martin reverse engineering program no way that's it's ridiculous it's fascinating that whole thing that whole side of it has just been like just super interesting to me so interesting the reverse engineering stuff and how much of that because there's definitely weird deception and like you know psyops going on with aerospace and then how much of it is real because there's a lot of evidence that there's something there as well yeah so it's fascinating but it's funny that you said like of course fly low seen an alien when i first heard your music i was like this dude because i was super into like dilla and pete rock and dj premiere all these like 90s hip-hop producers and then you came on the scene and i think i it might have been around your album cosmogram or los angeles like oh wait oh you know 2010 era and i just i saw you play actually with thundercat in new york and i remember because like dilla would mess people up because his stuff wasn't contrived right right and then i remember hearing your stuff and i was like this guy's on another planet like this is crazy hey well you know they made it okay they made it okay for us to go there yeah um so well you took it to the next level hey well hey doing my part doing my part yeah but you know it's it's funny though because i got you know just like everybody else probably i got a lot of flack in the beginning for doing my thing you know and being being that person like i keep bringing this up and i'm like i'm not gonna do it again i'm not gonna do it again i'm not gonna do it again because it's so bizarre to people but like back when i was first getting on and the scene like around like what 2004 um i get a lot of shit can i say shit i'm gonna say shit oh yeah i used to get a lot of shit for using a computer to make music really back in that back in the day instead of an npc yeah you had to have npc you know or or sp or something like that or else you wasn't making hip-hop you was making techno or computer music or whatever they was just like there's no way there's no way you can you ain't there ain't no swing in that computer you can't swing with that so it made me more determined to to like really get in there and get the sounds and to try different stuff and and i actually was was really encouraged earlier on in my development to you know just to do the other thing just to try and go in different directions and so i always a lot to the people around me really who supported me to just like not do not to do what everyone else was doing at the time well you come from maybe the most kind of interesting musical family i could think of alice coltrane is your what is your great aunt is that right yeah and then uh marilyn mcleod is your grandmother and she she wrote love hangover and she also wrote uh i get hot or i get high as a styles p um uh uh swiss beats sample uh but it's it's no it's it is i get high too right yeah the original free to paint yeah she wrote that as well yeah so you just come from amazing you know family when it comes to this stuff they still was looking at me like i was crazy though like why does this sound like some garbage hitting on some garbage cans you know like why what is what is this and uh i was like but you guys are crazy too what are you talking about um but yeah i had to find find my way so it's like uh just like we all do it is true your your drums i think set you apart so much it's like that plus the crazy synths like the like sounded like it was like you you leaned into the computer thing yeah yeah and it was like that plus the drums which you know was like yeah it was like garbage like back alley like crazy and i was like oh my god this is crazy yeah yeah well yeah just just went for it man just went for it um a lot of support from from my grandmother though um she was the first person to put a machine in my hands you know she had was the the 6606 the td606 or something like that like one of them drum machines were like you know those weird analog sounds and stuff in there and she was just like here take it i was just making drum beats and stuff when i was really young and that was kind of what what set me up and then just being around different family like my cousin he was making music on a mac 2ci like old old mac like back when that was was like super foreign to record on and um you know was watching him while i'm playing sonic the hedgehog he's like making stuff that sounded like prince and stuff and like i was just always surrounded by music and always surrounded by people trying to make stuff that makes sense you played sonic the hedgehog because it i feel like it's that sega like wave racer oh man no doubt and those loops man they still in my head man you know and i still i still be sampling sonic too still to this day this episode is brought to you by indeed you're ready to level up your business but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load it boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast cut through the chaos with indeed sponsored jobs get a 75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com slash podcast terms and conditions apply hiring now then this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs that's awesome yeah yeah so was alice an inspiration for you early on my aunt alice was such an inspiration but i feel like my appreciation for her and her music grow grew over time you know like when i was i feel like kind of in high school all the stuff started making more sense to me and i was really starting to see it but then when i really started like vibing there and like you know trying mushrooms and stuff like and like you know leaving my brain and stuff i'm like oh i get it for real now you know it was really starting to make sense and um and i had just the deepest appreciation for it but you know still to this day like i feel like every other year i'll go back and listen to music that she made and just be like what was she doing how did she do that why why did she do that that was a weird choice great choice but you know like yeah i'm still still picking it apart after all these years and you said she never saw her practice i never saw her practice that's crazy in my in my entire and i you know she was like the coltrane side though they're like the closest family to me in la and um so i spent a lot of time over there i you know i went to this to school right by their house so i walked from school to hang out over there all the time and you know i would see them very often i'd never see them in my entire life i would see them in my entire life i would see them in my entire life never saw her practice never and um i remember when one time when i was like maybe like 10 11 years old i went over to the house and she had a beautiful piano beautiful grand steinway piano um surrounded by you know her harp and all these amazing instruments i went in there i was like hey can i go play your piano yeah she was like well are you gonna play it i was like i don't i don't know actually what do you think she meant by that she meant am i gonna get down dude like don't mess around you know like don't go in there like messing around on my piano you're gonna go in there and play it well you go play it but you better play yeah i was like i took that like all right so i didn't do it i never touched that thing ever and she was very kind of spiritually tapped in as well right oh man yeah she was the most she was the most tapped in i would say yeah there's a lot of influence but i guess it would be more non-denominational i would say yeah i would say yeah there's a lot of influence but i guess it would be more non-denominational leaning but um but yeah a lot of a lot of influence there definitely yeah yeah she's amazing i mean just hearing what's it i think it was turia and ramakrishna yeah yeah yeah it's like that old blues kind of vibe and it's just so beautiful it's like ethereal and beautiful and like where is this coming from it's amazing it's wild because it can always be you can always hear the blues and then it just goes to some other just crazy places and i remember being with her in in paris once she she had me come with her and and ravi they played a show in paris toward the end of her life and um i just remember just hearing her you know she was like a she was like yoda you know she was like a yoda type person where she was like real she was really tiny and you know moved very slowly very gentle with everything but you know she just when she went on that piano boom was busting out all crazy you know like who is this person and it was like even even ravi her son he was like whoa what is going on you know so like she just had she was tapped in for sure to the source well john was tapped in as well i mean i think he might be like at least top three maybe favorite jazz musician of all time are you a fan of his absolutely absolutely and and i think i think i was a fan of his first and it was it's funny because when i was growing up and i would people would want to talk to my aunt and be around people want to talk to her they always want to talk to her about john coltrane all they want to talk to her about is like what was it like being around john culture what was he like what was he like and she would always answer very humbly and you know and then now it's like everyone wants to talk about alice coltrane and it's it's really awesome to see that just to see the turn happen but i i do wish she that she was here to to see her her influence um in the way because i feel like now i'm hearing way more about her than him even though he's you know i go to sushi restaurant it's always john coltrane playing you know in there but like i just feel like the the young the young folks around are really vibing on our music right now it's really cool to see absolutely well she really i think just pushed the envelope and experimented obviously he was amazing too yeah um that is cool to see and it's interesting how music kind of like your ufo interest ebbs and flows and changes and how do you feel like do you feel like it's in an interesting place right now do you feel like it's in a weird place like what music music in general is that even a is that even a a question you can ask or is it just it is what it is or you know as far as the industry and all that stuff i i can separate it and think about it in terms of like the actual music itself and there's always some good stuff going always always always interesting you just gotta look for it yeah you gotta seek it out but you know if you're only gonna listen to what the charts are telling you then you're probably gonna be thinking it's it's all the same it's definitely weird that it's now filtered by is the person a good social media personality absolutely that's weird to me absolutely and like the numbers like people people even see like okay well they only have certain amount of listeners on spotify so they're probably not that good yeah yeah they're probably not that great yeah they only got like 10 000 listeners every month so they're probably right it's this like infinite force ranking of everything absolutely everything's a beauty contest oh dude yeah and i feel like in the past 10 years you know the the numbers thing really got into the fandoms of rappers and stuff like you know first week sales and stuff like people are like kids are talking about rappers first week sales like selling what what are people selling anymore like y'all buying records and stuff like what is what is it's just it's super weird that that's actually part of the conversation in terms of like is something good or interesting it's like what are they selling how how much are they moving how many units are they moving like it's like old barbershop conversation or something that has now become like a very very popular bit of a conversation unfortunately well you started an amazing record label brain feeder do you feel like and i didn't even realize some of the people you had signed yeah i was independently fans of and doing research oh i like that i was like i like like i was like taylor mcfarren like i was like i was like of course he signed him like it's like similar drums and of course you'd be in the taylor oh i love like that when i first heard i think it was degrees of light i was like wow like this is crazy like what is that it reminded me of you a little bit and daedalus yeah and i'm trying to think there were a couple others on there where i was like damn i didn't even know you guys had worked together yeah yeah brain feeder has been going for a minute man it's been going for a minute and it's it's something that i'm actually really really proud of because it's it's you know something that is kind of flourishing on it on its own at this point you know and i'm still doing a lot of work with brain feeder and curating and you know the anr side but you know i'm still doing a lot of work with brain feeder and curating and you know that that's like a it's a machine that's moving and it's awesome to see and maybe through that you can fight back a little bit where it's like i don't care if you have 10 000 weekly streams or whatever like i love it absolutely and um you know it's it's become a thing where it's there's a lot of risk in the personal sense because i want to do right by the artists but as far as everything else there's no risk for me you know i'm not trying to make money there i'm not it's really not my source of income like that it is but it's not you know at the same time so i just was like it's it's my a passion project but like i've been so grateful to be able to see all these different artists flourish and have their careers and you know they're doing their thing yeah being there yeah super cool is there anybody you're into now that the public probably doesn't know about yeah oh yeah absolutely um there's a there's an artist just named thing okay thing i love drum and bass some drum bass like classic drum bass but sometimes we'll mix up some like some like um uk like two-step you know kind of gary uk garage kind of vibe um you know smaller following uh-huh doesn't matter don't care but like i'll be in the gym it's like i'm doing a listen to amen breaks and stuff like yeah so it'll be it's kind of random but um and the cat puts out stuff like every week it's pretty damn i know it's thing yeah thing go check out then thing is dope thing is dope yeah sick man yeah and you've worked with some of the most legendary artists like yeah i mean one of the guys i feel like you're just probably friends first and then collaborator second is thundercat who i saw you live with in new york yeah yeah um he's amazing man he's so awesome and he he credits you for the work you do and i'm so grateful for that and i'm so grateful for that and i'm so for having helped give him a voice and because he was just playing bass primarily right and you kind of helped him out and you were like look man you should just sing over your over your tracks is that right yeah he was doing some oohs and ahs on stuff and i was like what's going on you know let's do it and and then there was one day i'll never forget and i think about all the time we were sitting in my apartment my sweaty apartment in northridge um and he just you know we were talking about music i had these like like portable portable lunch tables they're like they're like uh you know the classic picnic tables or whatever that's where i had all my my gear set up on and it was like surrounded by all these like medicinal marijuana jars and it was yeah he just looks over at me and he was like man i want to be your artist and i i was like yeah what does that even mean you have never done that sort of thing before and um yeah we've just been going at man ever since we've just been going for it and it's it's been awesome to see and and honestly something i take so much pride in aside from my own work is you know just seeing how his music and his message and his influences affected the world yeah you see he's another guy who like you know back in the day i was like an artist artist where it was like he's amazing on the bass yeah yeah and then like in the last five years i feel like people are just like everybody knows who thundercat is which is so cool to see yeah i was i was randomly at dinner and they're playing his music just randomly you know it just comes along like let's go yeah i love it i love it is he into alien stuff like i could see he seems like such a like a fun kind of goofy personality like i could see him being into you know he's kind of like come over the house and i got like some weird alien youtube videos on and i'm like i turn them off real quick i'm not watching any of that stuff no but i don't think he's really into it okay okay i don't think he's super into the the stuff um but you know because he's probably an alien he doesn't want to be exposed you know exactly you don't like the exposure or maybe you'd act into it like you you never know maybe maybe we might be you know it right right maybe maybe um i want to list some artists and you've either collaborated with them or you might have something to say about them i want to get just one sentence about each of these guys okay jay dilla oh man um one of the greatest ever um very grateful to have met him a couple of times close to the end of his life um i feel like i saw him maybe a week or two before he passed away it's crazy i delivered a check to his house yeah let's tell that you told me this crazy i used to work at stone's throw um back in the day and he were you like you were like i was an intern yeah i was an intern there um a paid intern okay i was working there long enough they had to start kicking me down a little bit um but um yeah i i was there and uh yeah he was finishing up the donut stuff that was that was happening uh madlib sound directions is he was doing that it was like he started madlib starting to play drums live and stuff and that was kind of like that the time i was there um and yeah they were they were finishing up some business and they sent me over the house like yo um you might see something over there just you know be cool because he wasn't in really good toward the end he had like a blood disorder blood cancer or something uh lupus and and i don't know what else yeah but something else i think something else was going on too but um but yeah i was i i got to see him the machines were still on you know he was in a wheelchair he looked really bad man i cried after i left there i was like i was fully in tears just because not only because of what i saw but just because i still felt the energy i still felt the power still i felt the the the force it was strong still man it was really strong even toward the end and it was um it was really really um it was a lot but it was i was very impressed that even then you know everything was still lit up but he was still working on some shit was he good energy was he was he oh it was great yeah it was great i and you know i could tell he didn't want anyone to see him like that yeah and that was the thing too was like i could i didn't really want to look him in the eye bro just because i just tell you didn't but he still was like holding it together and yeah and he was at commons house right yeah i think they were yeah they were living together but yeah his mom's was taking care of him around me too yeah yeah you listen to some of those tracks like that um isley brothers sample don't say goodbye you call it bye or whatever and you're like oh my god he's like saying goodbye and it's so ethereal it's so like yeah it's crazy a lot or donuts of the heart that um jackson five sample it's like yeah when when i was there i think it was it was finishing up the shining the shining stuff was happening okay donuts was already done oh by then we were already like hearing all that stuff in the office yeah and i was like oh my god i'm gonna go to the office and i'm gonna go to the office and you know we were getting like donut deliveries you know and like there was like a couple beats coming through and we would like gather around the record player and like or whatever and just be like oh it's you know you know just be like blown away that's interesting so he was doing the shining after donuts well yeah i think there was there was still little ebbs and little bits and pieces that were kind of like you know still lying around for um for donuts like i think um can't remember exactly which one but there was some stuff that wasn't all finished okay it wasn't all finished and delivered there was like pieces of that and i think shining was finished by i think jay rock or kareem riggins back back then so okay yeah okay yeah stone's throw was so interesting like what a constellation of amazing you know peanut butter wolf started uh with him and charisma and san jose and then they came to la kind of for mad lib who was blowing up time yeah and like man was that an inspiration for you it was a huge inspiration it was a huge inspiration um before i you know i was actually living in san francisco studying film and a buddy of mine was like you know he was we call him crazy john because he was crazy he was insane dude uh but he had he had great taste in music and he was like oh you like hip-hop was you need to listen to lp you need to check out mf doom metal fingers okay victor vaughn mad lib i was like okay i'm gonna check these people out and i went and bought these records and my mind was blown and i was like you know just yeah started getting back into making beats i made beats when i was younger but when i was in college and like hearing that stuff i was really i got really into it again like and more so on the sampling side yeah because all the stuff i had made before was kind of like synth based and you know messing with um groove boxes and then that was like the gateway into sampling getting back into that stuff listen to wu-tang and hearing all that but favorite wu-tang clan member the risen of course yeah hard to argue with that yeah producer yeah yeah yeah although jZA had some amazing beats too absolutely amazing beats absolutely barizza heart and soul yeah yeah but but yeah when i was when i was in school i remember just being like you know what i'ma skip history of film school history of film and just like work on some beats right now i'd be doing that and then i heard about this label stone's throw that was in la back home and i was like you know maybe i need to the whole scene was in la too so i was like man i need to get out of san francisco go back and be around these people and get in that energy so that kind of led me back there stone's throw brought me back in a weird way I love it. All right, let's keep going on the artists. Sorry, I was only supposed to give you a sentence. No, no, this always happens. I love it. We're flowing. No wonder your shows are like three hours. Yeah, man. It's always just, I think the best conversations are just free association, just what you're, you know, whatever comes up. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Speaking of which, you just named two people I was going to ask you about. So let's go Madlib first and then MFD. Oof, okay. Madlib was definitely one of the most inspiring folks around. Considering he was one of those people who was like, oh, it don't matter what you use, you know, and I'm like, okay, well, I use a computer. You know, they don't matter. Just make something. And then. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to do it for you. And to make that happen is intense. Hiring now? It was like the output. You know, I remember being an intern and they showed me the box, you know, like all the Madeline beat tapes or whatever. They were like, all right, you know, check these out. And it was like, it was insane just being able to like, it'd be like hundreds of beats or like, he would fill up all these CDs. And I would listen to all them joints, man. Just be like, whoa, what is going on? You know, it's just crazy. And it would make me feel lazy. You know, it would just make me feel, but also it was one of those things that just kind of lit the fire. It's like, okay, I need to work on this. I need to keep going. There you go. So it was, he was definitely influential in that. And just the energy, you know, he was just such a cool, humble person. And, you know, whenever I got to be around him, it was just like a, it was a special day. It was always a special day just because, you know, he was, he just had such a, an impact on the whole community too. Like there was a, aside from, you know, the, the stone's throw thing, you've had this kind of adjacent squad of, of producers who would hang out kind of around, like the, any kind of stone's throw related event, you know, there would be like the cast, like D.B. Ossie and Georgia M. Muldrow, Ross G., you know, Take, and all these other great producers who went on to go and do great things. We started to build a community kind of on the side of what they were doing. And, you know, we'd be out front of whatever parties they were throwing with little boom boxes playing each other's beat tapes and stuff. And that was really, you know, with, oh man, Madlib came by earlier, you know, with, you know, dudes who worked at, you know, Poobah Records and Amoeba, they'd be like over there, like, yeah, man, he came in, he got this record, this, that, whatever. So it'd always be like, you know, legendary Madlib stories of what's going on. But always, always really influential and really influential. And he, wasn't Quasimodo like an accident? Like, that's how prolific he was? Like, I think Peter Butterwolf like found that or someone was like, dude, this is actually pretty cool. And then he kind of ran with it. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly, yeah. So crazy. Yeah, man. And Doom. Yeah. Doom was, I mean, to me, he's my favorite rapper still to this day. You know, I think he's kind of, he mastered the, the, the, the persona of, of the, the, the character he created. Yeah. He really did. He was really the villain, bro. Like, I mean, all the stories you heard about Doom are true. I don't know. They're not, they're not legend. It's all true. Like not showing up. Like not showing up to stuff. I remember there was, there was a gig. We invited Doom, you know, I had a show in London, and he was gonna play and, you know, we fly out to, I fly out to London. I think he's already there. Cause he had been deported or something. I think he was already living in the UK. So we're like, great, get Doom on stage, you know? Um, and I think, as we were sound checking, we're, I'm in the venue. Yeah. This is like, this is the day, I think day before. Cause we had to set up that whole visual show the day before he canceled. The gig, uh, and, uh, it was, that's kind of unheard of. I mean, here that, oh, okay. Well, but doing that sort of thing in this business is not cool, especially when you have flyers and all this stuff, promoting everything. We actually got Jay electronica to fill in that spot, which is also really crazy thing to do is he's also like, he's another guy where it's like, you never know when he's going to release his album or show up, but I think. I think he had reasons to come visit the UK and, uh, well, he was, uh, is he married to like a Rothschild? I didn't want to go there. I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't excited for you. I said he had a reason, I don't know what the reason is still, uh, but yeah, very elite, um, but he came out and rocked it. It was wild, but, um, yeah, it was, it was really, it was really scary. And that was that moment. I was like, oh, wow. He really is the villain. He, he, he doomed me, right here. Um, but man, you know, it was like, after that happened, you just kind of, well, yeah, it's the villain. Yeah, it was what he does. I feel like he's just the most elusive, interesting, like, I don't know. It's interesting with him too, where we were just talking about Thundercat, you know, I feel like 10 years ago, it was still more kind of underground hip hop, obscure circles were hardcore fans. It was like, oh my God, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know what I'm saying? It was like, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? it's wild it's wild it's super cool to see i just for some reason i just thought of like the first time i met doom though i met him at at peanut butter wolf's halloween party i was like bath robe man because that was all i had was a bathrobe i couldn't i didn't have any other costume but you had i was like a dude in the bathrobe and some sunglasses i'm hugh hefner and uh and doom shows up he just got into town he just he just shows up as himself of course um and i'm like you know hey man how's it going how what's how you living how long are you in town you you welcome to la how long you out here and he was like can i trust you it's like that like i hope so you know like that was the first thing that was his response to me and i was like okay he's a he's a special special cat very special well you hear him way back in the day we were talking about this last time when we hung out he was in a group called third base and he's in that song gas face and his voice is like different he seems like more of like like he's trying to be this like more square like cut and dry rapper yeah like try call quest vibe a little bit 100 early 90s and then he like goes off grid i think he's homeless for a while and he comes back as doom and you're like oh my god like his voice is different and man yeah he he'd been through something he's you know he'd been through a lot actually but um but yeah there was there's something about it he locked in he figured it out he just fully embraced the villain yeah i think there's a a really cool movie to make it's definite why don't you make it you're the you are the most qualified because you make amazing movies i am the most qualified producers 100 and estate you knew the guy you made music as close to that genre you have you were on a track with him between villains with uh captain burphy there's two tracks yeah there's two tracks there was uh we're supposed to do ep together okay i had a whole bunch of stuff on this computer okay you know the classic yeah classic tale of like a hard drive full of stuff a lot of it there's a lot of my stuff on there um and uh what's gonna happen to that let's get that out i know i know estate estate movie and hard drive yeah um thundercat actually got to see him close to the end he went i think he saw him at his house in in london he was over there he was he was staying in london for a while so gotta have him talk about that oh i'm curious that's amazing okay let's keep going with the the crazy list uh kendrick oof actual genius actual genius weird little guy i remember asking kendrick yo man what books are you reading it was like oh man i don't be reading, man, you know, power of now. Okay. All right. That's cool. I was so, so surprised someone like him who has so much to say and, um, very thoughtful, didn't, didn't read, didn't like reading books and stuff. I just felt like it was all. in there i thought it was all books yeah i felt like he was always referencing books in his work he is referencing i wonder if some people are just kind of tapped into and they're channeling yeah it's just like yeah actual genius he um you know it's the kind of person that shows up writes it on the spot does no no fanfare yeah you know he came through wearing some like you know some some slippers with some socks on and wears some shorts and a hoodie and just kind of you know just kind of came through and killed it bro like um would you say best battle rapper of all time i wouldn't put it in a battle rapper category personally i think he's he's he's definitely one of the most important voices in in music um to pimp a butterfly is his classic album amazing um yeah i i've one of those people too you're just like it's it's so you're like wow okay i don't want to get in your way yeah i don't want to i actually don't want to be i don't want to be near you i just want you to be able to exist and not you know like it's there's something very um he has this sort of um i don't know this vibe about him where he's just like super quiet yeah maybe he's in his head you don't say much so i just was like i just want him to do his thing i don't want to interfere or interrupt whatever his whatever is going on his process yeah yeah yeah who's who's uh top five for you mcs oof he's up there um if not you know number two number you know top three at least yeah him doom man this is the worst question to ask i'm on camera i don't suddenly don't know any right they've all fallen off the face of the earth right now um what else you got i got i got a couple more i want to get through a q-tip oh q-tip he's a super super inspiring dude um amazing producer that um as well as rapper um i think he didn't get he doesn't get enough credit as a producer uh yeah amazing yeah yeah really great beats um really great energy the voice um i don't know him that well but we try to collaborate on some stuff i think sometimes the thought of working together is better than the result sometimes for sure you know but um uh i would love to to have another go yeah at that yeah for sure what about apex twin hmm uh apex is is uh interesting interesting in that because you know he was he was one of those people that i listened to back before i was in college without knowing who or what or why it didn't matter it was just dope it was just cool electronic music um square pusher i'm on tobin those guys were kind of like in my sphere i wasn't like fully in the electronic zone yeah um but those were like the kind of auxiliary pillars uh for for my ears um but and i always found a lot of inspiration from the music videos um chris cunningham videos and when they did that director series back in the day the dvds they just had all the collections of music videos from like chris cunningham michelle gondry and and so on um and i always just would run those we'd run those so much and just like just pick them apart just because you know being a in film school and thinking about music music videos like those were the most cutting edge those were you know that series the director series i wish they would re-release those on you know 4k whatever things now yeah i don't think it'll ever happen yeah okay final one in this series kanye you know kanye it's funny man i actually i never really had the like i'm a super kanye fan i never had that thing but i did love yeezus i didn't like it when i first heard it then it really grew on me and i think that that album regardless of what you know he has become yeah i feel like that album was really really ahead of its time and it set a tone for many years in music not just hip-hop just in music in general i think that sound um it kind of expanded and it people took it in different directions and um i think you know there's so much of like electronic music that has come from that and hip-hop and the intersection that's very influential stuff yeah but but yeah what a fucking nutcase crazy yeah and i'm not one of those kanye sympathizers man i fell off the train when he said slavery was a choice i was off that mother yeah yeah yeah yeah i'm gonna get off now fully tripping yeah yeah yeah yeah i just hope he's okay man because he's musically a big inspirer i love him i think he's amazing and i just wish uh i don't know i wish he would just stop whatever is going on now i don't know it's it feels like it's he's definitely trying to get a rise like it's like if there is a third rail he'll touch it yeah he'll hit it and then there's some other part where like is he even in control like i don't know well you know mental illness is a thing man yes it's a thing and people are capable of being very successful and mentally ill at the same time um that is a thing often they're correlated right and um also too like you know the dude he's just like yeah got probably like a lot of yes men around people like enablers people just like i mean he's got a cult you know and people who are still apologizing for him constantly and just be like oh he you know he's just he's he's going through it you know but it's also got to be really hard for someone like him to have been at the top of yeah of the music pyramid or whatever and to now just kind of just be existing among others other great people not being the greatest top selling most grammy collecting person or whatever like it's got to be a little a little difficult for you a hundred percent a little fall from grace there yeah it's got to be it's got to be it's got to weigh on you who are your biggest inspirations when it comes to filmmaking you put david lynch in one of your videos you already know you already know did i just answer it for you i think you did i think you did um yeah david lynch whoo he was your favorite david lynch movie my favorite david lynch movie is probably eraser head that's makes sense because the movies you make that is such a crazy movie yeah it's it's a crazy all this stuff is pretty out lost highway so i got into david lynch through being a fan of trent resner back in the day which is really i it trips me out when i think about it because he worked for david lynch he worked for david lynch he worked for david lynch he worked for david lynch he worked on lost highway he did some music for lost highway and i was following him at that time okay and then i was like oh what's this movie who's this guy lost highway loved it um and then i kind of got way in at that point and i was he was one of those people too um early on where i was like oh maybe maybe i should go to film school maybe this is for me because i really i really love this i really love this and i think he also really got me into the film industry got me inspired aside from the filmmaking more so like the living the art life as they say you know where you just kind of fully commit you just you're fully you're fully in it you know that guy's tapped in yeah you wake up you smoke and you you get to work and you you that's your life just create yeah that's your life and that's how i live my life sans the smoking part i've it was weed but i've given that up a bit um but yeah like um seeing that and seeing that it worked for someone and that they've made the the best the some of the best things it's like okay it's okay for me to be this way oh yeah you know it's i can i can do this and i can live this way and it's okay you know you kind of make sacrifices the you know you have to have like whatever that regular life is um it's almost like his life itself is art like you see him doing the weather in the morning and i remember i ended up at his house because of some tm you know transcendental meditation benefit yeah and he was giving some speech and it was about you know it's like all you gotta do is tap in twice a day, you know, the whole TM thing. And I was like, this guy's on another level. Like he's on another planet right now and he's getting downloads and he's, he's truly amazing. And I feel like a lot of filmmakers try to do the David Lynch thing and they fail. Like they get so hard. Yeah. Well, I think, I think, um, the issue comes from, you know, people still feeling like they need to satisfy the audience and, and have some sort of like making sure everyone knows what's happening and having closure. And it's like, there's a difference where I think with his work, it's more so about how something feels versus how something, what it means or, um, what it's supposed to do or where the story is supposed to go. It's more so the feeling that it, it gives you. And I think he always tells people that. You know what it means, even if you don't think you do. Yes. Yeah. And it's, it truly, I feel like he'll break a lot of sacred cows or, you know, do things that you're not supposed to do, but it like, it just works. And I'd say Blue Velvet for me is one of my favorite movies of all time. Oh, it's so good. And it's so good. I love that one too. Cause it's a, it's such a good gateway David Lynch movie because it on, it starts off, you know, like most movies in a way it starts off kind of simply in it actually of all the stuff, it is kind of more commercial leaning. Um, so it's one of those ones. And this episode is brought to you by Indeed. Get a $75 sponsored job credit, an indeed.com slash podcast terms and conditions apply hiring now. And they have those moments. I'll never forget the scene near the end. Spoiler alert that, uh, you know what they deserve for it. You haven't seen Blue Velvet. Can you show a clip of this? Can you show a clip? I might be able to, we'll try maybe a frame. Yeah. We'll show a little frame. All right. All right. So frame is, is when, um, what's the guy's name? Um, what's his name? And Kyle McLaughlin. Kyle McLaughlin. Yeah. The main character. Um, when he walks into homegirls apartment and some shit had already gone down and there's the, the detective who was like wearing the yellow suit and he's just standing there. He already been shot in the head, but he's just, he's standing there still. I love that image so much. It was so haunting, dude. Like that kind of thing. It's just so surreal and such a kind of like, wait, is this a mainstream movie? Is this not, but it's just one of those things like that's you see, you can see his painting background right there. Cause that's like, that's just like some, uh, yeah, some bugged out. And I feel like it's a juxtaposition between this like suburban, like kind of fake light vibe. Like in the first scene, I think is like some dude watering the garden or whatever. And he like chokes himself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's, he's the best man. And so you like, how many years have you been like eight years that you've been making movies now? Or have you ever, maybe even before that on a smaller scale or how long have you been making movies? Um, well, if you want to go there, um, for a while, I, I started messing around with camera a long time ago when I was, when I was a kid. Um, when I was a, when I was a kid, I made a short film called use me, which won the audience award at the time. Um, and I was, I've just been always messing around with stuff. My friends have seen all my work, but the rest of the world has it. Dude. I love it. It's crazy. Like Kuso and VHS and, and Ash are all epic and they break your brain. Like they, that's what art is supposed to be. I think like it's really, they're all, it's insane. So everybody got to go watch Kuso. Kuso was fun. And Kuso is crazy. My favorite at that. Yeah. Kuso is fun because it's at that point now where people are re-examining it and they're like, man, that movie, I love Kuso. But at the time people were just like, what the fuck are you thinking? What are you doing? You can't do this. You can't do this. And it was, it was really right. That movie came out like right before you couldn't really do anything anymore. It was like right when they started like, Oh, the cancel culture. Right. Right. And I feel like I felt that coming on, like, you know, just people's were getting a little sensitive to stuff. And, but I feel like now because things have gotten so stale in a way, something like that kind of stands out. It's coming back. Yeah. I think like Gen Z, Gen Alpha, I think they're just like, fuck this. Like we like good art. Like it's all good. Some of the people who saw Ash were like, Oh man, I don't know. It's not like Kuso, man. I'm like, well, all right. Fair enough. Yeah. It's definitely not Kuso. No, Kuso is the, will break your brain. Ash is a little more of a, a movie, movie, like structured. Ash is amazing, man. And I feel like it like really plays on themes that are growing in the zeitgeist right now. It's kind of the AI theme a little bit. And it's also, you know, it's a little bit of the pandemic COVID thing going on as well, where you have this kind of brain eating, like, you know, paradigm. That takes over. I don't want to spoil that either. You spoiled it already. I might've just spoiled it. Yeah, it's true. Let it happen. Just let it happen. It's cool. But that was amazing. It's an amazing cast. It's funny though, because when I think of that movie now, I feel like if only I had done it now that I know so much about the, you know, the, the lore, the UFO phenomenon lore, it would probably be a little different or I would have a different take. On some of the stuff that I did, um, how so I don't know off top, but I just feel like now I shouldn't be making the alien UFO stuff. Uh, maybe the next one will be, but, um, I feel way more qualified to tackle the topic now just because I've been so deep in it, you know, but, you know, there are so many stories to tell, you know, so many that are, that are, you know, one of those things where it's like, it's stranger than fiction. I was, you just took the words out of my mouth. I was like, that's what I love about the UFO topic is it is weirder than fiction. And that's a cliche to say, but it's true. You hear some of these stories, you're like, what happened? And then you're like sitting in front of the guy and you're like, you have no mental health history and you were in a high position in government and like security clearance and all that. He's saying all that. Yep. Wild. Crazy. Wild, wild. But yeah, I find so much inspiration and just listening to the stuff, whether or not it's true or not, it doesn't matter. It's like, I just find it fascinating. Like, yeah, keep talking. Well, I can't wait to see the fly low UFO alien movie. Neither can I, neither can I, and neither can my friends. Cause I can't stop talking to them about it. So they're ready. I love it. It's one of those things where once you go down the rabbit hole, it's like hard to not be annoying about it. I know. I really had to just try to just not go there, but you know, some people will be like, all right, so what, give me the doubt. What's going, what's been going on? And you always get looped back in. You get tired of it and you're like, ah, this is crazy. There are all these psyops, there are all these bullshit people. And then you take a break and then something happens. You're like, fuck, I'm back. Yeah, true. True. Yeah, man. When that, when that damn, um, cause I used to really fuck with, um, Jeremy Corbell in Georgia. Imagine that. But then when Jeremy Corbell went on that whole tangent about the, the missing page and the fact that he, his name was taken off of the whole thing and it just really rubbed me the wrong way. The whole thing made a big old stink about it. Yeah. That was weird. And it was obvious that it's like, it's not about you. It's not about you. Yeah. Yeah. It was like that. That's an official government document. And what really got me was Matthew Brown met, Schellenberger before Jeremy. Right. Right. So it's like, and he's not putting a cover letter promoting his podcast or what. So like, I didn't, I didn't quite get that. Are you going to separate the Matthew Brown interview in the three parts to next week, kids, for the next episode of Disclosure? Yeah. I like Jeremy, but yeah. I mean, I'm still watching this shit. So obviously I do too, but it's just, it's, it's all the stuff just makes me, it makes the unease part creep in. Absolutely. Well, Matthew Brown also requires a follow-up. Like the stuff that he said, it was like, you know, I, I saw these documents, Immaculate Constellation. Here's the, maybe the weirdest, most interesting thing. It was like, I figured out Immaculate Constellation, Lou Elizondo's name was tied to that program. And then Lou Elizondo's testifying with Michael Schellenberger saying, you know, I can't confirm or deny whether I was read in, basically saying I was read into this shit. So it's like, Lou, like, tell us, man. Like, and then you have Korbel, like doing speaking tours with Lou and stuff. So it's like, let's take this thing a little bit further. And then Matthew Brown gets into, he just tweeted the other day. I don't know if. Oh, he tweeted the weirdest, like it was like talking about how the White House has like a crystal ball, basically. Like they have some proprietary AI that like predicts future timelines, which is from a story base. Like if I were trying to be inspired for like a movie, like so interesting, but like, it's like, dude, what, where are you getting that? Like it's, that's fascinating. Like that would be crazy if true, crazy if true. And I want to know, and we DM'd a little bit, but Matthew, if you're out there, follow up. I know you said you wanted to talk because that's, that's insane. It's true. That's like, that's fascinating. Yeah. And implying that like, what else was, did he say? He said a lot in that interview too. Said a lot. Said a lot. And he said that there is a God, but that we're in kind of like this prison planet and that these, you know, beings are, you know, we're kind of like captured by some of these beings. Well, we're like an energy source or something like that. An energy source. Yeah, we're a resource. That's what he said. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. That's kind of dark. I don't, I don't, I don't know. I don't know if I want to believe that that's it, you know? Hopefully there's some more meaningful shit going on. I hope so too, man. We're not just getting mined. I wouldn't be surprised though, but they'll stop eventually. They're like, hey, you know what's funny though? I keep thinking about this shit, like aside from the Barney Hill. Yeah. Any of the black abductees out there? Well. Is it like a white, is that a white phenomenon? That is, we talked about this last time. That is the OG, you know, abduction. Yeah. So, but that's a great question. I mean, aerial school, right? Aerial school for sure. Then there's that little girl who says, she says, in space there's no love and we have love. And so that's why the being wanted to come down and interact or whatever. I think that in space there's no love. And down here there is. There is love. Yes. So. But yeah, like they're not. But you think the ratio is a little off. They're not taking no black people at nighttime coming in your crib and like taking, that just is for some reason. You think it's a, it's a lower percentage than the percentage of the population? Or I mean, maybe it's just not reported or something, but I don't, I don't know. I find that really fascinating. That's it. If you could find some, like a book. A book of black abductees or whatever. I want that book. Let's audience. Let's get the stats on that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a funny thing. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, the first one, I mean, I don't know if they were the first, but the first very documented, you know, but that is interesting. I don't know. Well, Flylo, this was an honor. That's it? No. How long? I think we went over three hours. That was three hours? This is amazing, man. I'm a, anything else that we're missing? Anything missing here or what? I'm trying to think. We might've got it, man. We might've got it. But keep fighting the good fight, man. Thank you, bro. I will. And you too. And I'm doing my best. Yeah. But play some more of them beats though. Y'all don't know that that's his beat in the intro to the show. Like, yeah, I found, I figured that one out. Oh man, most of my beats. Put some more beats on, dog. Dude, I can't, I can't be talking to you about beats. I'll tell you to do it. I can't. That's how you keep going. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Keep going. I need to. I need to. But, uh. It's therapy, you know. But then I hear your beats and other people who I like admire and I'm like, I can't make beats, man. I don't know. It's supposed to be fun first. Okay. Okay. It's fun first, man. Like, have fun, you know, and just explore, you know, if something happens, great. But like, just have fun with it. I do. And that's the thing I have to remind myself to do. Yeah. You know, like, there's so much pressure when I sit in the chair. Yep. To do anything now. Mm. That I have to remind myself to do. I have to remind myself that, like, no one has to hear or see or anything. Like, I can just have fun doing this. Isn't that interesting about art where you start and there's no self-consciousness and then you become this thing for other people, like Flying Lotus. You're like a concept for, like, other people. But you're, like, still in your head. You're like, I'm just this dude. Yeah. But maybe sometimes when you sit down, you're like, ah, I gotta, like, adhere to this level of quality that I've done. Absolutely. And it's a daunting thing to just have a catalog and a lineage. And a history and all this stuff. But at the end of the day, I know that people can hear when I'm having a good time. Mm. Mm. I know it. That's beautiful. I think y'all can hear it. Yeah. You know? You can hear when I'm inspired and when I'm having a good time. It's, like, it's obvious, I think. Mm. Do you sometimes look back at your life and you're like, damn, like, this is stranger than fiction. Like, it's a movie. The amount of people you've intersected with. And your own insane career. And then how much you've been able to do in cinema. And you've done, I mean, deeper cut people know Captain Murphy that you rap to. And hip hop production. Like, everything. Do you ever think about that? Man, I do. And I'm, I feel like, I just feel very grateful, man. Mm. I feel very grateful every day. I have this written on my refrigerator. Be grateful. Mm. Because I am, it's just, I have the best job in the world. And. And I have so much love and support for all my endeavors, you know. Of course, some people don't like what I do. Mm-hmm. Some people like this. Some people don't like that. Cosmic Graham was the only good thing he did. It's fine. You know, but, like, I'm, I'm having a great time. I'm creating stuff. And I'm, I always try to hold on to that part. That, the, the innocent part of, of that. Because it's, it's, they want to take it from you. Mm. You know. Yeah. As soon as you start putting stuff out, they want to take that. And, you know, your management, you got managers and people in your pocket and your families and then people want, need money and you got to, like, support. Yeah. You know. And the legal aspects of music. And the ownership and the, yeah. Instead of just, like, creating. All that stuff. But it's just, yeah, and it's all, all gets in the way of, of the fun. Mm. And all gets, it gets too heady. So, yeah, trying, trying to hold on to that, man, is, is a thing. And, like, kind of trying to always stay inspired. Always chasing whatever. That will keep me happy and inspired. Mm. It's a thing. I love it. Well, I don't know if I'm going to start making beats again, but maybe I'll send you some samples. Because that, it's funny. I have a little bit of an encyclopedic mind with the UFO stuff. And then it's, and then it's samples. Dude, I know. It's crazy. I was so shocked when you started, like, you know, dropping, dropping tunes on me. I was like, dude, you know your thing, man. I mean, I love it. Very impressive. I love it. I don't know. Well, it's, uh. Yeah. It's more impressive to make the stuff than to just. Well, you got to send me some playlists, man. You got to send me. I'll send you, I'll send you some stuff. I'm sure you've heard everything that I'm sure you're deeper on all this stuff. I may, I may know a thing or two, but it's still nice to hear where your ear's at. But I'll send you some old soul, like, I'll send you some samples. Come on, dog. I will. Let's get it. You promised me those samples when we first started talking. I feel like that was early this year and I still ain't got none. Okay. Okay. I'm going to send you some samples. I will send you some samples. I know you're a busy man. You know? You got, you got a lot going on, so I give you pass, but I'm, I'm, I'm waiting. Okay. I will send you samples and you can do so much more with these samples than me. So I really need to send you a sample. Yeah, get sued. That's what I'm going to get. You can't really sample anymore, huh? It's just that you've got to just interpolate or whatever. It's a wrap, especially, you know, where I'm at, you know, people like ready to flag. Ah, because you're so big. Whatever you want to say about it, they know I'm. They're looking for it. Yeah. So like, it's, it's. It's not fun, you know? So like, that's why I end up doing a lot more keyboard stuff and less sampling just because it's like. Why did that happen? Because like back in the day, they would clear sample. Like you think about like. They would? Yeah. No, they wouldn't. Well, I'm just thinking about like, uh, Juicy Fruit and 2 May or whatever, or like, I don't know, Upside Down from Diana Ross and, you know, it's like, you're taking the whole song. Yeah. Like that's not even, sampling is generous or whatever. You are literally taking a loop. From the song and then putting some drums over it or whatever. Yeah. Like, so like, I look at that and I'm like, why aren't they getting, why isn't there some big legal thing with that? Maybe some of the samples were cleared. They were cleared. But a lot of times it's not necessarily the artists who will sue you. It's their kids. Ah. You know? Like that. The grandkids coming after, you know, like, cause they're in charge of the estate. Right. And they be listening. Right. Yeah. Like that Robin Thicke, Pharrell, Blurred Lines, Marvin Gaye, one of the bassline or whatever. Yeah. That was bad luck though. That was bad luck. You think that was just like, really like too much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You should have saw something. Interesting. You should have saw someone looking over, you should be looking over your shoulders doing that kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was an obvious bass line. Yeah. That was kind of maybe a little rip off. Well, it's hard to say. I don't know. I'm usually pro the person taking the stuff. I am. You're doing something new with it. I am too. But again, you can't speak for the estate and being a person who's, you know, my grandma, she wrote Love Hangover and people sampling her music is how we ate for years. Yeah. Totally. I love that song by the way. There's a cure for this. But you know, people sampling that was like, you know, Bone Thug sampled it, Will Smith sampled it. Like so many people had sampled. Her stuff and yeah, man, like we, we. We probably would have been out on the streets if it wasn't for, you know, people clearing those centers. And playing stuff on the radio. Yeah. Yeah, that's how we ate. So I totally see, I know the game. I get it. I get it. People got to eat. Yeah, that makes sense. And she deserves all the credit for that. I mean, what about, didn't she do stuff for Lamont Dozier back in the day, too? I believe so. I don't know, though, actually. I think so. I don't know. Under a different, there was a group or something? Because he was, Lamont Dozier was in one of those groups. I'm blanking on which one. But he also had a solo career. And he was a great solo artist. But I thought she might have written something for him. Put me on, dude. Tell me. That'd be awesome. I mean, look, people have been telling me stuff like that, though. Like she was, she had done some stuff in her Motown era that I hadn't heard. You know, my grandma. My grandma was around. She was, like, more so writing, trying to write new songs and trying to, you know, write jingles and stuff. So she wasn't really focused on the back catalog as much. It was just, like, when those samples and things would come up, it would just be like, oh. And, like, even the Free to Paint, I Get High, I didn't even know she did that until the Styles P thing. Styles P. I didn't even know she did a song about getting high, dude. I was like, what? Grandma. That's so funny. I had no idea. That's a beautiful song. The original is amazing. It's, like, ethereal and opulent. Dude, you got some really amazing sound in there. I feel like writers back in the day in that Motown era were the most underappreciated. Like, you think about, I think about the Motown roster, obviously, like, greatest of all time, maybe record label, maybe ever. But, like, really, the linchpin, I feel like, is Smokey Robinson, who was writing all the stuff for everybody else. I'm like, damn. Like, how did you write all that? Hiring now? It's wild, man. And, like, some of the, just some of the session musicians, you know, who they would call back and stuff that'd be like, that would be part of the sound. That'd be part of, like, the foundation for all this great music. And then they would sometimes get sick of writing and they'd be like, we want the, we want to be up in front, up front, like, um. Mike Thundercat. Mike Thundercat, there you go. That's a great example. Yeah. Or I remember, like, you know, like McFadden. McFadden and Whitehead, like, ain't no stopping us now. Like, they were writers before, you know, a lot of it. Yeah. Yeah. My grandma was doing, she had her own music at the time, too. And, you know, I don't think much happened with her own stuff, her own personal music. But, yeah, there was, I think a lot of those writers were musicians and wanted to have a career singing. And, you know, maybe didn't pop off, but they could write. So, but it's a, it's a thing. And I, I would see still, um. She wrote for Junior Walker, too. Yeah. I just can't. Yeah. Yeah. I love Junior Walker. It's awesome. But, yeah, man, like, even in, in modern days, you see it, there's just, there's people who was like, see it. She was like a songwriter, but she was like, kind of like a background character, didn't want to. And then, yeah, she eventually was just like, you know what? I'm doing my thing. I'm not going to show my face, though. Yeah, never. Never. Yeah. World. That's, she won. That's the movie. That's the movie. Right. Yeah. You're that big. Yeah. And you can just hide. Incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe she was inspired by MFD. I was just thinking about that, dude. I was like, man, dude, he really did figure it out, didn't he? He figured it out. Yeah, man. I was funny because I, I only just made the connection to the gladiator mask. Oh, dude. It looks the same. I just didn't. What do you just said? I only made the connection. I was like, what is that? Oh, yeah. That's wild. Yeah. So, he must have been basing it off of. Of gladiator. It's gladiator. I feel like that. I don't know where the mask comes from, but that is like the same mask. It's the same mask. Yeah. Because you have it going, it goes below the chin. Yeah. Whoa. That's trippy. Yeah. Man, he, his stuff is so like the metal fingers, beats and stuff too. It was funny, man. When I first got into that stuff, I was like, these are some of the worst beats I've ever heard. Well, they're just like raw as hell. And then eventually they're like, come the best beats. You've ever heard. You know what I mean? Well, he would just take, well, they were all named after roots, you know, and then he would just take like a Doobie Brothers loop and just throw it on there. And throw the worst snares on. Yeah. And then eventually he was like, okay, I get it. It would just kind of work. Yeah. Absolutely. You're like, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I love it, man. Well, round two. Yeah. Yeah. All right. We'll actually finish this. We're actually wrapping up. I could talk to you for hours, man. Yeah, man. Fly like a fly. Hello. This was an honor. True honor. And, uh, hopefully we come back when you are making your movie or crazy movie. I would love to. I would love to. And, um, thank you for having me. Honestly, it's so cool to be on the other side of this, man. Oh, man. I appreciate it. And I owe you some sample. I'm now publicly being held accountable for this. I have to follow up. It's time. Okay. I might not put it out. If you did, that would be, uh, I don't know. Uh, a life moment for me on the order of like probably more important than anything I've done. You know, when you do a thing in the domain, you, you kind of know you're okay at or whatever and you're like, all right, fine. This would be so much cooler for me. That's got to happen. Send me some shit. Let's get it going. Send me some shit. That would be crazy. It would be. Appreciate you, man. Thank you, man. Thank you. You know, that just got me thinking like, you know, Joaquin Phoenix provided push a T with the beat. No way. Do you know about this? No, no, no, no. I think like that King push song. No way. Yeah. I don't know if he gave it to him and it was produced by somebody, but he, yeah, it came from Joaquin Phoenix. Joaquin Phoenix gave the beat to Ye. So when I got the beat from Ye, it was, yo, Joaquin gave me this beat. That's interesting. Really weird. I've been hearing about some low key producers. Hmm. Robert Pattinson be making beats. No way. Yeah, dude. Is he good? I don't know. I've been trying to get him. I've been trying to get the beat. That's crazy. So just for my curiosity. Yeah. Gotta know. Oh, wow. Gotta know. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. I just, I don't know how to do drum. I'm so good at the sample selection and then I just always sucked at drums and I Do you program them in? Yeah, just MIDI. Yeah. That's why. Oh, you gotta play them. But I don't think I can play them. I just, I don't know. You can. Really? Don't knock it yet. Just try it. Just try it. The click in the beats thing is difficult. It's difficult to get a vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. From that. It's really difficult. And I actually do that sometimes knowing what it's going to sound like. Like sometimes I want stuff that sounds rigid on purpose. Yes, yes. But like it's only then because like I just cannot. And a lot of people do that. A lot of people just click them in and all. I just cannot do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I want that feel. Yeah. But like you got it. You just got it. But even, I remember like there's a Kanye interview where he's like, I can't do it. He says he, I mean, he's amazing, but he was like, I can never figure out drums. He was like, my drums didn't slap like Dilla. He was like, my drums were not like Travis Scott. Like, yeah, but his drums, he did his thing with what he's got, you know? And I think, I think, you know, Doom did his thing. But when you listen to early Kanye, like his first track ever for Rockefeller, I think was Beanie Siegel and Jay, This Can't Be Life on one of their albums. Beanie Siegel's random mixtapes. And you hear the drums and you're like, these are garbage. Like, these are not good drums. Yeah. And then half the drums are like Impeach the President, you know, fucking generic ass shit. But you just got to try sound for sound. Don't do like the whole kit. Don't be trying to play the whole kit. Just do like, just do some hi-hats first. Play those in. Play the hi-hats in. You can even quantize them later, but just put the hi-hats in. Okay. You know, do the snare. Okay. Do the kick. Do the kick. Okay. But another thing for you in that case, because now you've put me on, is do your drums first. And then try to form your sampling around the drums versus using the sample. Trust me. Okay. Yeah. It's like, I have trouble with that sometimes. Because finding the right pairing can be really challenging. Yeah. But like, if you set the drums first and you get a good groove with them drums, then something else can happen. Wow. Then maybe you might think. I feel like you're more optimistic than me, but I will try. Oh, man. You can do it. You can do it. You just got to have the time. Appreciate you, man. Yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah. All right. We're actually done now. Actually done. All right. Quick heads up for you guys. American Alchemy merch just dropped. It's all super high quality, 100% cotton, embroidered hats. clean designs, I wore the logo tee on Rogan. up now go to americanalchemymerch.com to check it out thanks for the support it means a lot you