Leftists Tried To SHUT DOWN Our Movie

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American meat delivered. Hey, everyone. I'm Tim Rice. Welcome back to another edition of Behind the Story. You know, here at The Daily Wire, when we're not breaking news, we're making news. And to that end, you may have seen some hubbub recently about one of our movies. I say one of because there's a different story. Today, we're going to talk about Pawn Shop, a film that just wrapped production despite the best efforts of a small Montana town. You can read the full saga right now on The Daily Wire in a piece titled Angry Leftists Tried to Stop the Daily Wire's Latest Movie. They Failed. And I am so thrilled to welcome the author of that piece to the show. You know him. You love him. It's Daily Wire editor emeritus Ben Shapiro. Ben, thank you so much for joining me. Hey, thanks, Tim. I appreciate it. So why don't you start by just giving us again? Hopefully, everyone will go and should go read your piece and listen to your monologue on this issue. But why don't you just give us the briefest rundown of what Pawn Shop is and what happened in Livingston, Montana? Sure. So Pawn Shop is a movie essentially about an ICE agent who is caught in a rough conflagration and then has to take a detainee and basically get that detainee to deportation proceedings and goes through a variety of is being attacked by ICE watch members or groups like Antifa. And he holds up in a pawn shop essentially in order to protect himself and to protect the detainee from this crowd. And this thing became sort of a cause celeb on the left because the film was interpreted as quote unquote pro-ICE propaganda. Now, the film is not anti-ICE for sure, because again, it's a Daily Wire production, which means that we are not anti-ICE here. We think that law enforcement doing its job is a good thing. But the film is actually quite shaded and the hero of the film is actually an old Hispanic man. The other people in the pawn shop are racially diverse. The ICE agent who at the very outset is injured, this happens in the first five minutes of the film, is Native American. So again, it's a diverse cast. It is a really fascinating and interesting and I think kinetic movie. But because it was perceived as quote unquote some sort of pro-ICE propaganda film and the beginning of the movie was supposedly a reenactment of the good situation, which it isn't. I mean, there's some pretty significant factual distinctions from what happens in the film for what happened with Rene Good because it was interpreted that way by a cast member or a crew member who apparently leaked the script to somebody or allegedly leaked the script to somebody. And that got out pretty quickly within us, you know, starting to film the first few days of action. A group of people who would probably be labeled ICE watch or ICE watch adjacent, they decided to start trafficking around the town in the fact that we were filming. And so they descended en masse onto our crew. Our crew was physically threatened. The members of the crew were personally threatened. There was a situation allegedly, according to our lawyers, in which somebody drove a truck at the members of our crew. There was a full-on quasi-violent attempted shutdown of the production. That was on sort of the informal level. Then there was a move at the Livingston City Council level, which again, this is a small town in Montana. It tends to be the only blue area in a sea of red because Montana is a very red state. The city council tried to withdraw our filming permit. So we'd gone through every legal process in order to do this, as we do with every film. We have to abide by the law. You know, it's a very expensive process making movies, and it's a very burdensome legal procedure to go through all of this stuff to make sure you can actually film in locations. This film happens to take place in a limited number of locations. And so without giving us any notice what was going on, without telling us that they were intending on doing this, they basically voted unanimously to suspend our permit to film on the street in Livingston. And there's some external shots that we definitely needed for the film. They shut down our production a day. They basically threatened to shut down our production for good. There's a scene where we had to use the facade of the pawn shop and do some damage to the facade of the pawn shop. We actually had to go through the process of rebuilding an entire fake facade in order to try to complete the film on private property in a parking lot in the back because we didn't know whether they were going to violate the First Amendment and basically shut down our production. So in the end, our lawyers sent a lengthy letter to the Livingston City Council and said, listen, guys, you do this and we will sue you into the ground. This is clearly a violation of the First Amendment. This is happening because you don't like the perspective of the film. We didn't violate any procedures or protocols. We're not doing anything unsafe. In fact, we're the victims of people who are trying to do unsafe things. Now, Tim, what was so fascinating about this whole thing is the reaction of the entertainment media in all this. Now, you would imagine the entertainment media might have some sort of stake in protecting film production. Right. Well, the film production is having a lot of trouble right now in the United States. Right. L.A. has basically emptied out of film production because of union costs and because of taxation. Regulation and all this. And so if there's a film being made anywhere, then theoretically, the entertainment media should be in favor of it. That's their industry. And the entire entertainment media industry came out against us, basically suggested that we had somehow endangered people, which we clearly did not suggest that we had violated our permits, which we very clearly did not, again, because they don't like the content of the film. And they've been doing this consistently with pretty much all of our films. They actually tried to do this with Run, Hide, Fight Infidels. They tried to claim that we violated union rules or that we've been injured when he fell through a window that was literally about six inches above the ground. Again, this is kind of what they're doing, the entertainment press, on a regular basis. But it shows you that they don't care one iota about crew safety or about production or about any of that stuff. They just don't like the fact that we are making, by the way, highly successful films in their area of supposed expertise. Yeah, it's the whole thing was so shocking. And one thing that I think made it for me, at least because I've I've I listened to all all seven hours of the of the town, the city council meeting where they deliberated whether or not to to revoke our permit or I guess restore it at that point. And I spent a lot of time reading about Livingston, Montana, which is a lot of films have filmed there over the years. It was a favorite of Robert Redford. He directed a bunch of movies there. But in recent years, such films as Cowboys versus Dinosaurs, a movie which one helpful YouTube video pointed out has a gore rate of one violent kill per minute for all eighty eight minutes of the film. Right. I mean, that movie, I filmed there ten years ago and there was no issue. It was very clear, again, as you just outlined and as you say in your piece that it was not not just the I think the pro ice message. Right. But the fact that this was a a Daily Wire movie in your I'll read from your piece real quick here. Commissioner, finally, Commissioner Cindy Daniels let the cat out of the bag. Quote, This wasn't a Hallmark film. Residents complained about simulated violence, hired guns and triggering scenes. So a Hallmark romance keeps its permit. But a Daily Wire film about immigration enforcement loses it. So obviously, as you said, a clear First Amendment violation and not something that you we weren't prepared for because they've done this with Daily Wire films in the past. But there was something a little bit extra about these protests. Right. Were you a little bit shocked at the length to which some of these Livingston residents went to threaten and stalk and intimidate members of the casting crew? That was pretty shocking. I mean, not shocking in the sense that left wing protesters at this point will do basically anything, But in the sense that we're just making a film here. I mean, obviously I've been dealing on a personal level with the security risks attendant on, you know, being very prominent politically, but the, the, the film, which again is, is just a film and the film is, you know, I think, uh, an awesome film. I think it's gonna be great. I think our audience is going to love it, but it's not as though the film is sort of militantly political, even if it were, it wouldn't matter, but, but it happens not to be actually. And the, the fact that people mobilize to the tune of actually like tracking down the names of our, of our crew members, they're shouting the names of our crew members there. They were openly threatening members of the crew. Uh, they were suggesting acts of violence against members of our crew, trying to get people to leave town. I mean, it really was something kind of astonishing. And the fact that we were then treated by the entertainment media is the, we had been the initiators of all of this. That's the part that truly blew my mind. I wasn't really that shocked by activists and protesters doing what they do. They've been doing this to, to, you know, again, our people, whether it's me or Matt Walsh or Michael Knowles, or, or, or even our production, sometimes they've been doing this kind of stuff for a while. The fact that the entertainment media in, in just in unit unanimously and overwhelmingly sided with the people who are attempting to do violence to the people who are on our set, Will Summer over at the Bulwark did an entire piece about how terrible it was that we were producing this film and how we had actually instigated the problem in Livingston, Montana. That's not true. It's just a lie. And, and again, they were all willing to run with that lie because all these people are perfectly happy to watch us censored. They're perfectly happy to use force of law to censor us until they're called on it. And what do you think was the driving force of the entertainment media's sort of unanimous opposition? Because as you said, obviously there's, look, there's a political angle, right? They don't like us. They don't like you. They don't like us. That's all clear. But is it really just that all of their political priors are so deeply ingrained that they don't realize that they're potentially hurting themselves long-term by not supporting successful film production or encouraging people to shout down and stop the production? Of films that they don't like? I mean, I think, yes, I think that the politics are so thoroughgoing in the entertainment industry at this point that they're not even willing to acknowledge that there is even an another side. And it doesn't even have to be explicitly political. I mean, this is something that we've already experienced, for example, with our film Confession. So Confession is coming out in just a couple of weeks. And frankly, the thing is, is awesome. It's an incredible piece of art. It's directed by a Venice Golden Lion nominee. It's got seven Oscar nominations among the cast. It stars Rob Lowe and James Bond. James Franco and Jennifer Jason Leigh and Nick Nolte. I mean, it's got a huge cast. And it happens to be, I think, a really beautiful piece of work. It's set during the 1938 Stalin purges at the Soviet Lubyanka. And it has tremendous thematics about morality and Christianity and communism and all the rest of this sort of stuff. But it is certainly not an overt modern political work, right? It's not something that's sort of like rabidly right-wing, you know, agitprop on behalf of certain, you know, Republican, it's not like a pro-Trump dialogue. Right. Well, that film was represented by CAA. CAA is the biggest agency in the world. I mean, it's literally the biggest agency. And many of the actors in the film are represented by CAA or by other major agencies. CAA submitted the film to pretty much every film festival. The film festival that took it was Warsaw, where they still don't like communism. But places like Venice rejected it out of hand. And the reason they rejected it out of hand, and we know this, actually, the reason they rejected it out of hand was because, number one, I'm the screenwriter on it. Number two, because of the politics of the piece. And number three, because of the politics of the piece. And number four, because of the politics of the piece. And number five, because of the politics of the piece. And number six, because of the politics of the piece. And number seven, because of the politics of the piece. There are too many people who love communism. There are too many people who are fundamentally opposed to Western civilization. A festival that gives a 26-minute standing ovation to a true piece of adjunct prop like NASA, which is a documentary that's based on just spurious reporting about Israel and Gaza, like that received a 26-minute standing ovation at Venice. Of course, they're going to turn down any film that doesn't meet their political priors. And it's not just our film. We've seen this in a bunch of other arenas. I know other filmmakers who have submitted very good films to these festivals, and they're getting rejected on the basis. And so what we've done that they really hate, this is the thing that they really hate. What they hate is that we've built our entire ecosystem outside of them. We have our own audience. We have our own distribution mechanism. We have our own way of getting our material in front of the public. And so the anger that you saw about the production of Pawn Shop is the same anger you saw about the fact that we worked with Jonathan Majors for Run, Hide, Fight, Infidels, which, of course, is a huge hit for us. It's the same anger that I think you're going to see a multiple of when Confession comes out. And it's actually good. Again, my prediction with regard to the reviews are that everyone in the cast will be praised. As they should be, because they're amazing. The direction should be praised. And they'll say the screenwriting is lacking, because I wrote it. And again, all of that is perfectly acceptable and understand. Fine. But let's be real. The thing that they really are objecting to in the entertainment media is that we are providing an alternative to a system that is failing. I don't think that it's a coincidence that Netflix is hitting a creative wall at the same time that we are opening up a creative renaissance on this side of the aisle. And as you say, this is not the end of the story for us. I mean, we have an entire pipeline of creative endeavor that's going to be coming out over the course of the next 18 months. And we're just getting started, right? People got pissed about Infidels. And then they knew about Pawn Shop before they knew about Confession. And these are major scripts with major names in them with actual directors. There are pieces of, you know, fun and pieces of art. And it's a wide variety. I mean, it's an actual slate. If you look at Run, Hide, Fight Infidels, that is like a fun shoot them up. And then if you look at Confession, it's about as artsy a drama as can be. It is a true piece, I think, of art. And then if you look forward to Pawn Shop, it's a much more serious, you know, action thriller that, you know, kind of harkens back to movies like End of Watch, as opposed to Run, Hide, Fight Infidels, which is kind of sort of half Blazing Saddles and half Red Dawn, right? So we're doing a whole variety of projects. And by the way, again, that's just the beginning. We have at least two more films that are already in production. And we just wrapped on Pawn Shop like five minutes ago. So we're not stopping because, again, there is an audience that's hungry for this and what the entertainment press refused to recognize, what many of the big producers and distributors refused to recognize. And we're not stopping because, again, there is an audience that's is that there's an enormous side of America that just does not want to be insulted when they go to watch a piece of film. They don't want Greta Gerwig doing Narnia, right? They're not interested in a new horror series in which it turns out that actually the giant squid is only emerging because of the threat of mankind's carbon emissions. We're not interested in Digger, maybe. Maybe there's some people who are, but maybe it turns out that there's an entire side of the aisle that wants just entertainment that entertains and doesn't shock their values or insult their values. And I think that's so important and a point to make that it is a real slate. And it is, you know, these movies are look, obviously, like everything we do with The Daily Wire, we always say, right, with our reporting, right, we have political beliefs. We have an editorial position. Obviously, we believe in Western civilization and that it should be defended and things of that nature. Everyone can go read it in the mission statement. But that doesn't mean that our, you know, investigations aren't serious. It doesn't mean that our news stories are inaccurate. In the same way, having a political belief or having a screenwriter or a director who has a political belief does not mean that these films can't be entertaining. Run, Hide, Fight, Infidels, on the one hand, and of course, has been marketed as, you know, a warning about the threat of radical Islam and the excesses that are happening on college campuses. But it's also, as you said, a very entertaining shoot-em-up. It's also, and I said this to Kyle Rankin, who's the screenwriter and director when we did a couple of screenings here in D.C., it's one of the best college movies I've ever seen. Like, the first 25 minutes of Infidels are just an amazing dorm room movie. And I was sitting, I watched it for the first time, and I was like, oh, my God, this is a great movie. I'm watching these guys trying to invite girls from their seminar to come hang out in their dorm room, and kind of everyone's tripping over themselves, and it's so awkward. And I was like, yeah, that's what college is like. That's incredible. And you don't get that anymore. You don't get just entertaining movies. And I think that it's clear that The Daily Wire can play at this level and kind of do so much. And it's not just, you know, documentaries or aggressively politically charged things. I think that infuriates people. And we've just become, again, we and you and all of these things have become a catch-all for things people don't like. You even saw that in Livingston, hilariously, or maybe not hilariously, ironically, the protest was ostensibly about the fact that this was a reenactment, as you said, of the Rene Good shooting, which it isn't, but also even if it was, that was a pretty big news story. Who's to say you can't make a movie about it? But the protests weren't really about ICE so much. The people on set, they were wearing Bans Off Our Bodies shirts. They were shouting Free Palestine. Their objection wasn't even really about ICE. It wasn't even really about The Daily Wire. It was just their engaging in the collective primal scream that is modern-day liberalism. And I think you saw a lot of that with the critics, too, from a different way. I think that that's right. And I think that you'll see it in the critics going forward. It doesn't matter how good what we make is. The critics will always find a way to crap on it. So I think we just have to know that going in. And that's fine. I mean, that's their prerogative. It's a free country. But we know the quality of the work that we're making. And again, what we're trying to offer people is a wide variety of products that are going to appeal to various different sort of interest levels. So, you know, we have stuff that's like infidels is bloody red meat, right? It's as red meat as a red meat offering can be. And our audience, of course, loves that. And they eat it up. And we're saying things that nobody else will say in a film. And then you have films like Confession, which would not be uncomfortable on A24, right? We have films that are like legitimately in a fairer world. The actors, you know, the director, they would be up for Oscars. We do have stuff that we're bringing out like that. And so, again, by providing that variety of experiences to The Daily Wire members. We're hoping to not only just appeal to the people who already subscribe or the people who are, you know, about to subscribe, but to a broader panoply of people who are looking just for awesome content. And that means that we have to offer kind of this giant variety. But I think what the left, that's what the left hates. The more that we are a threat to their system, the more they hate us. If we were just over here, you know, making our right-wing documentaries, they would hate us to a certain extent. But the fact that we're playing in their sandbox is the thing that they're really, really, truly upset about. You can see it in every single, like, that is currently coming out right now about anything we're doing. on the entertainment side, they're just upset that we're in their sandbox. There was a review that came out in Poland of our film, which premiered at the Warsaw Film Festival, and the entire review, I'm not kidding, the entire review, which was in Polish, we had it translated, the entire review is just, why would the Warsaw Film Festival allow a film written by people associated with Islamophobia and homophobia and abortion and pro-life? Why would they allow such a terrible, terrible organization at our beloved film festival? That is the feeling. The feeling is that we're encroaching on their space. And guess what? We are encroaching on their space because frankly, I think we can do it better than they do. I think that much of the stuff that we are making is better than most of the stuff that they're making. I think we're doing it at a fraction of their budget. I think that we're doing it at a speed they cannot even remotely contemplate. I mean, the time from inception of Pawn Shop to when it will air for our members is shorter than any timeframe, probably in the history of modern film. It's insane how fast we put this thing together. And all credit to Dallas Sonier, who's been unbelievable in this process. But again, we're doing on a shoestring what Hollywood is taking, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars to do. A great example, again, to use confession because it's the last thing that we've really sort of brought out material on. When we brought out the teaser for Confession, we came out the same day as the Narnia trailer on X. And the Narnia trailer is brought out by Netflix's account. Netflix's account has something like 30 million followers. We brought out the trailer for Confession, the teaser on the Daily Wire account, which has like 2.5 million followers and on my account, which has 8.9 million followers. So, you know, you put those together and we have maybe 35 to 40% of the following of the Netflix account. It came out the same day. Our teaser was viewed the same number of times as the Narnia trailer from Netflix. And that Narnia movie cost Netflix $280 million. $280 million to pervert a piece of IP that probably would have been better off, you know, in our hands. I think we certainly would have botched C.S. Lewis significantly less badly than Netflix appears to have botched. I certainly know that if I had been an executive producer on a Narnia movie, it would not have been Transland. It wouldn't have been, you know, a female lion in David Bowie's, you know, glam rock universe. I really don't think that was the direction we would have gone. Yeah, absolutely. No, and I think it's such a great point. The Confession trailer, especially, I think really broke everyone's brains specifically because of Rob Lowe. Obviously, all the Nick Nolte, Jennifer Jason Leigh, James Franco, these are all phenomenal talents. I think they all broke sort of, again, the collective liberal brain and the entertainment, you know, glitterati brain, their participation to a certain extent. But there's something about Rob Lowe. He's just, he was on the West Wing, you know? Rob Lowe was a good actor. Rob Lowe was an actor you're allowed to like. And now he's doing an evil movie about how communism is bad with evil Ben Shapiro. And they just can't process that. It's insane. The reason people signed on is because it's good. Yeah. They didn't sign on because, you know, I wrote it or because Daily Wire is the distributor on it. They signed on because it's actually good. And Rob will tell you, this is the best performance of his career. It is easily the best performance of his career. He knows it. He talks about it. It's Rob's performance in this piece. Like, again, I think that the movie is going to blow people away. I don't know, Tim, if you've had a chance to watch it yet. I haven't yet. I have the screener sitting, but I'm waiting for a time when I can really appreciate it without my kids crawling all over me. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, you definitely don't want to watch it with kids all over you. But it is Rob's performance in particular. There is no doubt that if this thing were being distributed by Amazon Prime, or by Paramount Plus, or by A24, there's no doubt that Rob would be up for Best Actor at the Academy Awards this year. And by the way, we're going to run that campaign anyway because he deserves to at least have that consideration. Yeah. So in closing, I want to ask you, because you've mentioned Netflix and streaming services, and you've mentioned A24. I guess just sort of broadly, what are your thoughts on the future of this industry and the place that you see The Daily Wire in? And obviously, as you said, The Daily Wire is going to keep making movies, but I mean, we see Netflix bleeding money, tons of layoffs, on the other side, you see studios like A24 with, I mean, Obsession, right? Was the runaway hit of the past year. Shoestring budget, quick turnaround, basically like a student film and everyone loved it. So, I mean, what is, obviously, you and The Daily Wire for a decade now have been trying to and successfully playing in their sandbox, as you put it, but what does that look like now that the sandbox is changing? Now that some of the bigger players are getting kicked out? Right. So I think a couple of things have happened. One is that, you know, obviously a lot of these bigger players are sort of maxing out their subscription base and so they're sort of struggling creatively with where to go next because when you try to be all things to all people, it's very difficult to develop a personality. A24 has its own personality. The minute you watch an A24 trailer, you know you're watching an A24 film without even seeing the insignia for A24. And so in that way, I think Daily Wire and A24, in their own ways, are somewhat similar. The other thing that's happened is that we've shifted our strategy. I mean, the reality is that even with regard to sort of our film and TV projects, we have shifted our strategy away from, you know, everything sort of being made within purely the conservative community and toward the idea that we are just going to do whatever we have to do in order to make fully competitive, awesome stuff, right? And I think that that's the difference in quality that you're going to see that's already emerging. And I think that's the thing, as you say, that's sort of breaking people's brains about Confession in particular because, yeah, I mean, we got a major movie star in Run, Hide, Fight, Infidels, and that's awesome. But, you know, the caliber of the stuff that we're making is only going to increase. So we are seeing a decentralization process taking place. We can move faster than literally anyone in the space. We have a few advantages, I would say, as opposed to many of the other sort of companies playing in the space. One, we have a full-on production and distribution mechanism. We are vertically integrated, meaning that we work with Bonfire Legend, which is Dallas Sonier's company, to actually produce these films. And then we're working throughout the process with Dallas to make sure the films are what Daily Wire audiences expect them to be and what we hope our future audience will expect from us, right? I mean, that's all stuff that we can do. We can move faster and make decisions faster than anyone else. We have some budget to work with because, again, we are not a tiny company. We're a mid-major company. We have our own way of putting out the movies. We don't have to rely on somebody to pay us to put out the movie because we actually have a crowd of people who are waiting and eager to see the next piece of material. So we're actually shockingly well-positioned in this space. All it required was a little bit of a brain shift in how we wish to approach the space. And I think that what people are going to see emerging over the course of the next 18 months, if you think that what you've seen so far is shocking, man, wait until you see what's coming. I can't think of a better way to end it there. And I know that I am not alone when I say that I'm very excited to see what is coming down the pike. Ben Shapiro is editor emeritus of The Daily Wire, host of The Ben Shapiro Show, screenwriter of the forthcoming hit film Confession starring Rob Lowe and James Franco. All that and more. Thanks a lot. All right. And thank you all for tuning in. I am Tim Rice. This has been another episode of Behind the Story. Thank you, guys. 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