Lecrae Opens Up About Church Hurt, Diddy Parties & Depression (EP 210)

Went to a dinny party. - There are the ditty, crazy, debaturist nasty events that he had, and then there are the entertainment presses invited events that he had. I don't know anything about the nasty one. I never been to anything like that. Have I been to an event where it got a little dicey? Yes, after midnight it gets kind of wild. Branch Montana was like, "Hey man, you wanna go with us "to celebrate at the strip club?" And I was like, nah bro, he's like, nah. Like, what's your some kind of Christian rappers on my lap? I am a Christian. I was like, "These sold is sold." That's when you start to get ugly. Get a season where you wanted to take your life. Oh, for the TKS. All I kept thinking about was my little kids at the time finding my lifeless body and the trauma that would have caused them. God, I don't know if you're real. It was like a faint voice. That was like, I'm here. I'm real. And I wish I would have listened to that voice. Hey, before we get into today's episode, I wanna share two quick things with you. First, if these videos have meant anything to you, if they've encouraged your faith or helped you see the gospel a little bit more clearly, I just wanna ask you to subscribe. A lot of people tune in every single week and haven't hit the button yet. It only takes two seconds and it helps us keep putting these conversations in front of people who need them. And the second thing, this one I've honestly been really excited to say, I'm officially announcing our ministry's biggest live event to date, Open Heaven live podcast tour. It's happening November 8th this year at the Pavilion at Toyota Music Factory in Irving, Texas. This is gonna be a night centered around worship, faith, real conversations and genuine community. I believe God is going to move in a powerful way and I would love for you to be in the room. Tickets are on sale right now. You can head to briskroffer.org/tour or just click the link in the description below. And please, only get your tickets through my official site or that link below. I recommend not buying from random resellers online. I believe this is going to be a really special night and I hope to see you there. All right, let's get into the episode. What's going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Briskroffer podcast on Bryson's Day. I'm with a special guest today. We're here with La Cray. - Yes, sir. - Come on, how you feeling? - I'm great, man. You gotta be with you. - You know, I admire you a lot because you have been following Jesus in an industry that can be labeled a lot of different things. Light, dark, good, bad, everything in between through success, through criticism, through hardship, through trial. Before we get into kind of all the details, I really want to know where do you believe God has you right now? - Hmm, that's a great question. I think I've always been a bridge. You know, I think the Lord, the laborers are few, the harvest is plenty, but a lot of people don't see, when they see like the music industry or they see like hip hop or rap world, they don't see a harvest. And I think I'm like a bridge trying to help people see like, that's the harvest. There's not a lot of workers over there. That's the problem, right? The laborers are few. So I just see like God using me as a missionary but I'm in a strange land where people are a little bit afraid to touch. I'm like, ah, it's a little dark and dangerous over here, but I love it. I love being in the place and in the space. - Well, you've been doing this for like 20-ish years, right? - Yeah. 20-ish years. And, you know, I just got throw this in there. - Come on. - Right, like I'm 22. So it's like, you know, could you maybe be my dad, maybe? But you're like one of those dudes that like, you know how I add a courtesy, you tell someone, oh, no, no, like you don't look old. But you're like doing it out of courtesy because you just kind of like feel bad with this respectful. You actually don't look old, you know. That's a good thing. - My son is 18. We travel together a lot. And they're always like, yeah, your little brothers, yeah, you all look just like, I'm like, I'll take that man. I'm like my mom, my mom's like 70. She's on TikTok. She's just still, you know, I got the same kind of energy of just like, you know, not trying to be something I'm not, but still trying to connect and understand what's going on. - So in the 20-ish years that you've been doing this, what has been the hardest thing about following Jesus while people are always watching you? - The hardest thing for me about following Jesus while people are eyes are on me, is failing, right? 'Cause the world sees you fail. Most people get to fail in private. Most people can mess up or it's like, oh shoot, I drop the ball right here. You may be with your friends and somebody asks you a question about your views on something and you give an answer, you know, and then they'll be like, I don't know about that, bro. And you're like, oh, I didn't think about it like that. And then, you know, your view changes. But as a public figure, you give your perspective on something in front of the camera. And you grow, you may be like, ah, shoot. That's not where I stand right now, but it's too late. 'Cause that's how everybody looks at me because of something that I said. So the hardest part is having to grow. And the other hard part for me, I'll just tell the story 'cause I was just telling, talking to Pastor Philip Mitchell yesterday and I was telling him a story. I said, you know, in the early 2000s, I heard this rapper and he wrote the song about his faith. And I was on Twitter. I have more followers than him at the time, right? So I reached out to him and I was like, hey man, I heard you write this song about the faith. Love to talk with you more about it. We just started dialogue. We exchanged information, exchanged numbers. We just kept talking, kept talking year after year after year. And that person is Kendrick Lamar. You know what I'm saying? But a lot of people would say like, you're just trying to be liked by the world. And I was like, man, I was more popular than him when I reached out to him. - Wow. - You know what I'm saying? So it's really just still just trying to be a missionary, but people don't get to see that. They don't get to understand the why. They just assume from the outside looking in. - So like, when did you realize that following Jesus in that public way would cost you things in private? - When I did this mixtape called "Church Close." At first, everybody was cheering for me. You know, I was like, double XL, the B.T. freestyle battle. It's like me and meek Mill and Rick Ross and a whole bunch of other rappers, you know, at the time. And everybody was cheering for me. And they were like, yeah, yeah, look at the Christian guys. He's on our side and I wrapped and I did my thing. And I remember French Montana was like, "Hey, man, you killed that." That was a super dope. You wanna go with us to celebrate at the strip club? And I was like, nah, bro, he's like, nah. Like, what's your some kind of Christian rapper? Some of them, I'm a Christian. And I was like, yo, these people are unexposed to me in my music. I need to make a mixtape to connect with them so they can hear this. So I made the mixtape, but I did it with a very prominent, like Secular DJ, DJ Don Cannon. And people really like hate it on me for that. They was like, yo, man, he sold his soul. And that's when it started. It was like, why are you connecting with the world and what is going on? And for me, I was like, I'm trying to reach them. I'm not trying to like, champion sin. And that's when it started it. That's when it started get ugly. - Wow, that's so interesting. I was having the, I'm asking these questions in particular, 'cause that's something that I'm trying to figure out. So how old were you when you started this? - About your age. - Yeah, so I think that's interesting, because I'm having so many different questions and like run-ins and I don't understand. And I think it could be hard 'cause I started, we started our ministry when I was 20. So it was kind of like some similar stuff. And you know, our deal is like, oh, wait, we love talking to non-believers. Like that's our deal. We're just talking about like KKK leader or, you know, going into this environment or that environment or even talking to people that may be in the Christian space that I'm like, hey, I love you, but I disagree. - Right. - And honestly, the thing that has been the hardest for me is the friendly fire and Christianity of going, like wait, hold on a second. I thought like I thought we were all chasing the same goal. Like what do you mean? Or no, I didn't mean that, but like you said, that kind of thing and that just kind of, that's been like such a hard thing for me to navigate. I mean, has it been hard trusting people or was it hard for you trusting people as you were creating the mixed tapes, releasing the songs and God's blessing you with influence? How hard was it to trust people and pick who trust? - Yeah, it got dark for me. And I always want to fight for believers like yourself to not have to go through that darkness that I experienced because I started mistaking the friendly fire and like the hurt that I was experiencing as a God hurt, not a people hurt. I started getting bitter with God. Like why aren't you letting your people attack me like this? And I remember in one of my really dark moments, man, I was just kind of like, man, what am I doing wrong? You know, I'm trying to lead people to Jesus. I'm trying to share the truth. At this time, you know, my wife and I had moved into the trap. Like we literally moved into the trap. So I was in there constantly and I was hearing these kids and hearing these stories and hearing the things that they were saying about my music. And so I was like, okay, I need to change this. I need to do this. And as I'm making these adjustments, there's more friendly fire. How are you being worldly? Oh, why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? And I remember just praying, man, it bothered me so bad. You know, I remember praying and the Lord showed me, the Spirit showed me like this is what Jesus went through. You know what I mean? Like they were so upset at him because of the way he was maneuvering. It was so counter-cultural to them. that they were like, "We gotta kill this guy." He's blaspheming me. And I think that's what they want to do to us in a sense. They want to socially kill us, not like literally, but it's like, "I want to kill your work." And I think that's just the work of the enemy, man. It's just trying to allow people to rail against us. And so, missionaries are pretty much always misunderstood. They're just some of the most misunderstood individuals because they're really in the culture. It's like being an undercover cop, bro. You know, it's like, that's really misunderstood place because all the other cops out there see you as like a criminal 'cause you can't tell 'em. Like I'm undercover right now, you know what I mean? And so they're just like, what are you doing? And you don't wanna go out and say, well, I just shared with this guy, 'cause now you're betraying his trust and, you know, so many things. And so, yeah, it's just a tough space to be in, but I think it's rewarding because if you're not there, who is, you know? Who else was gonna sit with that KKK pastor if you did? - Yeah, you know what I mean? - So how do you keep pointing people to Jesus when people are always looking at you? I think the mistake that people make, I can't remember, I read this a while ago, but there's some psychological thing, how like through social media, you can subconsciously build a relationship with someone, like over the screen just from like consuming their content. So like, oh, you know, I'm a big fan of La Cray, I listen to his music, I follow him on socials, and then I see La Cray for the first time, and it's like, yo, I think we're best friends. And so like, maybe there's definitely this temptation online to make La Cray the point of, oh, I gotta look to him, he's my role model, he's this. How do you continue to point people back to Jesus when people are always looking at you? - Yeah, when people began to lift you up, unfortunately, they're lifting you up to a standard that you'll never be able to live up to, right? So they're ultimately right, rising you up so they can tear you down, because they're putting you on a pedestal in a place where they're seeing you as the example, not realizing that they've created their own idea of who you are and how you should be. And when you don't live up to it, they're disappointed in you. You have destroyed their hope because they had so much hope in you being who they wanted you to be. - Wow. - And it actually says more about them than it does about you. I don't know, usually what ends up happening 'cause I've been in this long enough to see the full circle. What ends up happening is, man, you gotta stay your race, you gotta stay on your path, you gotta stay consistent. And down the line, they end up coming around and saying, I was wrong, bro. I misjudged you, bro. I didn't catch this because they matured, right? They matured in some ways. Life just has a way of maturing people. I used to get into it with so many people back in the day online and I have emails. I was just yesterday going through some emails and I remember going through this email of this one guy and I was like, oh shoot, this guy used to be on my head all the time and look at him, he's apologizing. - Wow. - He's come around. And so I just think at the end of the day, you're never gonna be able to get people to see you're not the source. You gotta just keep pointing to Jesus, pointing to Jesus, pointing to Jesus, and I mean, if that was the case, John the Baptist wouldn't have had to say, I'm not fit to tie his shoelaces, I'm not the guy. He would have never had to say that, but he had to say that because people kept, you're the guy, you're the guy, you're the guy. He's like, I'm not the guy. I'm not even fit to tie his shoelaces. So I don't think you'll ever get to a place where people are gonna stop, but I do think if you're consistent, just be consistent. Eventually, people are gonna start coming around and saying, okay, I see, I see, yeah. So what's something about Christian influence that you had to learn the hard way that no one told you about? - Well, one, nobody told me anything, right? 'Cause for me, I was the first person to navigate some of the spaces that I've had it. - Yeah, I guess that uncharted territory. - Yeah, so nobody told me anything. It was kinda, all they told me was, don't do this, don't go there, that's dangerous. And I was like, but you've never been. So it's kinda like this. It's like a bear hunter, right? And you're out there, you're hunting bears. You're just, man, I'm bear hunting, bear hunting. And somebody discovers that you killed a bear. And they're like, yo, this guy killed a bear. We never knew there was bear killers. How you killed a grizzly? And then they come grab you. And then they take you on this tour. And all you're doing all the time is telling everybody about the bear you killed. Man, I killed this bear and how'd you do it? I did this and what did you, I did this. And before long, you're spending so much time telling everybody about how you killed a bear. You're not killing bears anymore. And that's kinda how the church tends to function. Is everybody wants to hear the story about the bear killer but no one wants to go out there and kill bears. - Wow. - So, wow. So they start judging people because they don't know what it's like to be amongst the bears. They don't get it. They're like, why aren't you doing this and doing this? And we're supposed to, bro, we're literally supposed to be like hounds on a fox hunt, right? And the hounds job is to go find the fox, catch the fox. The fox is the hearts of men. We are the hounds. We're going after the so seeds and throw seeds into the hearts of men. That's our job. But when there's no fox to chase, when you stop chasing the fox, when the hounds stop chasing the fox, you know what they start doing? They start fighting each other. 'Cause they don't have a mission. So they start battling. The dogs start getting into it. And I think that's the issue with the church a lot of times is, man, we're not chasing the hound. We're so, we're fighting each other instead of going after the hearts of people. And we start fighting about how you didn't do it right. Well, you didn't do it right. You should have did this. You should have done this. Meanwhile, we're just sitting on our couch scrolling, looking at how everybody else is doing it. Instead of doing it ourselves, you know what I mean? That's it. Dan, you know, I fully agree with that. I can't remember, I've been thinking about this a lot. We always want to preach about mental health within the church. But the body of Christ cuts itself every day. We argue over all you did this wrong. You did that wrong or you should have done this. And I fully agree. You know, it's 'cause so many people, you really pioneered this hip hop journey with bringing faith into it. And, you know, no one else could take the shots. You should have like, really the first guy to do it. And people are going, oh, you're doing this wrong. You're doing this wrong. But then they're like, they're not even a musician. Yeah. And then it's like, bro, what are you saying? I'd be more like, come show me, please. What, how would you do this? Nobody's ever done this before. I don't know, how would you do this? You know, so I think that's so funny. Do you ever feel bad like that you were for a lack of better terms, like almost like a test subject for this? Not even just in the hip hop realm. Like I'm really just talking about Christian influence. 'Cause really outside of, I have a lot of respect for like the pastors that like when Instagram first came out, like they got influence like on Instagram and stuff like that. And you can, you know, so-called mega-church pastor, you know, Christian celebrity pastor, whatever you want to call it. But like, I consider that like a separate realm. Then like someone like you who's really pioneering that. Was that hard? Yeah, super hard, man. It's super hard because you just don't have a roadmap. A lot of what I learned is like, you're in the mix and you don't have a roadmap for how this thing goes. So when I'm sitting on the breakfast club, talking to Charlotte, man, and God, everyone's like, you need to say this. You need to say this and make sure you say Jesus 10 times and make sure you share the gospel and make sure you do this. And I'm like, I'm never gonna get it right for y'all, right? 'Cause if I say Jesus three times, it's three times too little, you know what I'm saying? And then they're like, why didn't you share the gospel with them? Well, I did, it just wasn't on camera. Because this wasn't the place for that. And I think that's what people think is they're like, yo, why didn't you take advantage of the time you were on camera in front of all those people? And I really think what they're misunderstanding is that, like we treat the gospel message like a salesman, like we got to seal the deal. Instead of it being a transformational message of a king who's coming. And it's not about trying to jam it down somebody's throat really quick. It's about, man, where are you hurt? Where are you, where, like the woman at the well? Like where do you need this truth to transform you? And let me speak into that particular place. And so when I'm sitting there with a news reporter, I mean, you've never done it. I've never done it. How do we do it? You can sit back and tell me how you think it should be done. But when you're sitting there on Jimmy Fallon, with millions of eyes on you, it's like, okay, oh, I got 90 seconds to it. Did Jesus stop for everybody's sins? Hey, all right, bye, you know what I mean? There's no way. rule book, roadmap to that. So I just had to like, piece it together. And sometimes I did that. And sometimes I thought, man, maybe I should just like do this song and let people get invested in the song. And then they'll hear the gospel message in that whole album and or maybe, you know, they'll follow me. I've got plenty of TikTok serminettes where I'm sharing the gospel. So, you know, but there's no map, man. And so the hardest thing was just like everybody judging you, but not realizing, man, you don't have a roadmap for this. You try to figure it out. - I don't want people to miss that bare analogy you made 'cause I can't stop thinking about it. It's so true. Really, I'm like, man, we got so many people who wanna, and I can be the first to say, like, I've fallen victim to this before too, 'cause I'm human. But it's like, maybe before I criticize for someone stepping out and doing something that I haven't done, or much less if you wanna be honest with yourself, don't criticize someone for something that you're not willing to step out and do. And like, that's really the beauty of the body of Christ. It's like, not everybody has to be the mouth. Not everybody has to be like a body. It was for work together. And I thought that was a goal. That was beautiful. - It's unfortunate. That's where we are, though, man. You know, it's like, we all say what we would do. You know, I watch sports all the time and I'm like screaming out television. - Oh, no, dude, he should have did that. Bro, I'm not in. I'm not a pro athlete. - Yeah. - I couldn't make it. - Yeah. - You know, all I have is my opinions. (laughs) - Just saying that, bro, I'm getting convicted right now. I was like literally yelling at the TV last night or this morning, whatever. - I was watching a sports center top 10 or something on the treadmill this morning. I'm like, dude, what the heck is that guy? - Yeah, bro. - Yeah, yeah. - So did Satan's tactics change once you had influence? - Ooh. - I think the enemy Satan is a, he's defined by certain things. He's an accuser, he's a liar, he's a manipulator. Those are, he's a tempter. That's what he is, that's what he's gonna do. I think we underestimate the intelligence of evil. It's the second most intelligent force in the universe. Second, only the guy, right? When you just try to say, Satan is stupid and he doesn't know what he's doing. I'm like, "God, chill out." He's slick and plays the long game. So a lot of times, yeah, initially when you're young and inexperienced and you don't really know your word, he can jump out like the boogeyman and just like, you know, I never forget this, man. I was younger in my faith on, we're on like our first tour. And there was this big band out at the time called Jim Classy Rose. And I remember we're in New Orleans and we're on tour and all my crew was in the hotel. It's late at night and I was like, "Bro, we're in New Orleans, "we gotta get those binyeis." We gotta get the binyeis bro. And this is funny, this is how old this is. This is pre-Uber. So there's no Uber. Yeah, there's no Uber, right? So I'm like, I gotta, I'll go walk to go get binyeis for us 'cause I don't mind taking a walk 'cause my roommate tripled me at the time. He was like, man, I'm just tired, bro. I said, I'll go get the binyeis for us. So it's like 11 at night and the binyei place I know doesn't close. It's maybe 10 at night. I'm walking down the street in New Orleans and I'm passed by House of Blues and I see this massive tour bus. And I was like, dang, I was like, we need a tour bus. We didn't have a tour bus. It's not wearing like a Winnebago, you know what I mean? So I was like, man, so I'm trying to take a picture of the tour bus company on the side of the bus. And this girl, not modestly dressed at all. Beautiful young girl comes walking off the tour bus and I can tell she was drunk. And she was like, hey, why are you taking a picture of our bus? And I was like, I didn't know whose bus it was. She's like, it's Jim class hero's bus. And this is a male group. So I'm like, you're not in the group, you know? And she was like, you know what? If you're going to take pictures of our bus, I'm going to have to take you inside and rip you. She's gorgeous. She literally jumps on me. Like I'm facing her. She jumps up on me, wraps her legs around my waist and on my neck. And I was like, you know, just like, whoa. I literally threw her off me. I threw her off me and like started to run a little bit. Like Joseph, what part of her? I was like, oh, and so man, you know, that moment is like where I was in my walk. Yes, that was a clear attack from the enemy. And that's the way it will work. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? As I matured, I'm like, I'm not going to put myself in that line of fire. You know, I just would like, I'm on navigate different. But he just gets slicker, he just gets smoother. And it's like he's the way that he's attacked me. The worst is the silent gas of success. Whoa, it's like a slow, you just smell a little bit every day. He doesn't say, man, you're the man, you need to walk around like you're the man. You own this place and you got it together. It's just a little bit at a time, just a small little, you know, hey man, man, you changed my life. Praise God. Praise God. Hey man, your song is the best song out right now. I'm just telling, hey man, you know what man? You deserve all the Grammys. Hey man, you got more platinum records than so and so. Hey man. Hey man. Hey man. Hey man, before you know it, you're not fighting against pride anymore. You've drifted and you're just comparing yourself to everybody else who's not as prideful as you. And now you're like, hey I'm not that bad compared to them. It's like, that's, that was never the standard. Dang. So that's, that's the way I've seen him. He just gets a little slicker. Yeah. He's not really the, the guy in red with the pitch for it. That's right. He's like in the tuxedo and the slick back hair and he looks like James Bond. Angel of light. Whoa, crazy. Man. Angel of light. Have you, have you ever had like outside of that, which that, I mean, that story in New Orleans is wild, wild, wild. But have you, have you ever had like a, have you ever had an encounter with the devil himself? That's a good question. I don't, I don't know because from my understanding, man, I mean like he's not, I'm the present. He can't be everywhere at the same time. I don't know if he's counted me worthy enough to like, I'm gonna appear and jack you up. I will say, I think I have felt the full weight of a satanic attack. If it wasn't him, he sent his strongest, toughest minions at me. And I definitely feel like, you know, where I was in the darkest space in my life. And honestly, it came from being so beat up by the church, you know, so beat up by the church that I said, I don't, I did not realize the impact in this season of my life that I was. I had the number one album in the country, you know, I was touring everywhere. I was speaking at every conference. And I just did not realize the impact that I had. And how damaging, you know, it could be for Satan to take me off course. And man, he came in my belief system, you know what I mean? And just me like, I don't know if God is real. Because if he was real, these Christians wouldn't be attacking me like this. If he was real, the mentors in the faith that I looked up to wouldn't be attacking me. They didn't call me and say, hey, man, I got some questions about what you're doing. They just attacked me. Yeah. And I was like, what the heck? That was the toughest spiritual darkness that I'd ever encountered. Where I could feel like a weight pulling me down and I remember laying in my bed one night. And I was like, God, I don't know if you're real. And it was like a faint voice that was like, I'm here. I'm real. And I was like, ah, that's just me. I'm just tripping. I wish I would have listened to that voice, you know? So what did you need from the church in that season that you weren't getting? Honestly, man, grace, I needed grace, bro. I needed somebody to say, hey, LeCray, I think I see what you're trying to communicate. I think I see what you're trying to say or do. Let me pull you in real quick and just in process this with you. Let me ask you some questions instead of just accusing you. And then a lot of times, unfortunately, man, we assume each other's motive. And the Bible tells us like, we don't even know our motives sometimes. Right. Like Paul says, I don't even judge myself. I let the Lord do that. We'll call each other lukewarm. And I'm like, when Jesus, when in revelations, when God was saying this church was lukewarm, he actually had vision into their heart. We'll call each other lukewarm without knowing each other's motives. So I can see your tattoos and say, he's lukewarm, he's lukewarm. That's why he's got these tattoos. He's not godly at all. And it's like, what are you don't know anything about? why he did what he did or what was going on or nothing. And the church just didn't give me that grace. They just said, see, oh, he had so and so on his podcast. He just wants to be famous. That's why he did that. Wow, you know, Bryce wants to be a rapper so bad. Oh my gosh, he meets with a little Tony, he meets with a craze like, he's just so fake, bro. Yeah, maybe, maybe an ad live, maybe an ad live, you know, like they want a mom, you know, if you'd let me do that, I would. I got you, bro, you did a whole song. I do think you could eat a whole song. You might, I don't know if you got enough auto tune to fix me. We get you right, bro. We get you right. Dude, I'm from, I'm from a Carter's, little George. That's all I need. I got a little thickness in there. It comes out, I tried to get rid of the accent a long time ago. It comes out of accent is fire, especially for rap. All right, you need that name. I'll tell you that. I'll tell you, bro, like, you don't want to, yeah. Don't stay out in that late too long illusion. You can't lose the flavor. Yeah, that's the sauce. Come on. That's the sauce, baby. You know, I really, really want it. I'm so glad that you brought up. I think you call that season like a reconstruction, which I love that language. Because when you label something deconstruction, it's got this, like, ooh, you're dead. But, you know, in a sense, if I'm being honest, I have a hard time, too, in that way where, like, in similar ways, there's like heroes of the fate that I, like, look up to, and have been accused, or, like, the friendly fire. And if I'm being completely honest, I was, 'cause we were just on a live podcast tour. And I remember one night on our off day, I'm in the hotel room, and I'm just grieving in the shower. I don't know what it is about. I meet the Lord when I'm in the shower. I don't know if that's there at the long time, baby. Yeah, getting the loan doesn't know distract me. And I'm sitting there, and I'm grieving hard, and it was, to be honest, I was growing bitter, at Christians, and really I was growing critical. Because then I would sit in a church, and I would subconsciously become critical, because I'm like, well, all these other people have hurt me, so are you gonna hurt me, or are you gonna do this thing to me? And so it's, and really that's been such a hard battle. And I don't know if this is gonna make sense, and I'm really cautious to say this, but it's something that I'm really trying to process, and it's gonna maybe not sound as, like, biblically theological, or whatever, but I don't care. It's just, keep it real. You know, I guess sometimes I wonder, maybe if you've ever felt like this, you could have done anything with your rap. You could have done anything, but you chose to incorporate your faith, 'cause you love Jesus more than you love the gift he's given you. And you decided to sacrifice your 20s, your prime years, to sacrifice, and sweat, put in sweat equity for the souls of people that you may never meet, shake their hand, or touch, that have heard your music, or whatever. And in the same way, we're doing that with our time, and with our videos by saying, hey, I'm gonna, you know, we're gonna sacrifice our time in our 20s, bloods went tears to meet people where they're at, and create these videos to encourage other people, but you hate me for it. And that idea right there, I wrestle with a lot, 'cause it makes me grow bitter. And I don't wanna grow bitter, and that's honestly been my biggest prayer lately, and I would just love to know some wisdom on that, because I'm praying, and I'm like, man, God, I don't wanna grow bitter. I can feel my heart being cold a little bit, and even when I don't wanna be cold, and I'm not trying to be cold, or I'm just really hurt, and that makes sounds so selfish of me to say, maybe it is, I don't know. - Sounds human. - Man, I'd love to know some wisdom. - Yeah, sounds human. Yeah, no, I've been there, bro, and I've been there so bad. A couple of things that I've had to learn to remember. So one is, the people whose lives are impacted by you, rarely come back around and say thank you, right? So there's a story in the scriptures where Jesus heals these 10 lepers. You know, they're so happy to be healed that they run off. And I imagine, I mean, just imagine, you got leprosy in their day and time, you're separated from everybody. You don't, you can't see your mom. If you got kids, you can't see your kids, your spouse, you gotta be off in some quarantine forever. And then Jesus comes along and he's like, "Yo, y'all, I'm quarantined, how long you been here?" - Five years, man, I didn't see my mom in five years. He's like, "Psh, you healed. "Go show yourself to the priest." So they take off and he's like, "Yo, I'm healed. "I'm going back home and see my mom. "I see my mom and forever." And it says, out of them, the sliver of all of them who got healed came back to say thank you, right? And I think that's a picture of us as believers is there so many people who've been transformed by what you're doing or inspired by what you're doing. And a lot of them, man, they're just, they're so excited to be free. They know, they don't spin the block and say, "Brice, thank you." Now some of them do, but it's so much easier for us to focus on the loud 5% who say something negative, right? Who got something negative to say. The only reason, bro, the only reason they have something negative to say is because you're impactful. That's it. If you weren't making a dent, they would have nothing to say, right? If you literally had two subscribers, 36 views on your videos, they'd be like, who is this idiot moving on? But because the Lord has allowed you to impact millions of people, people have something to say. Because they're like, I don't like the fact that these folks' lives are, it's Jesus all over again. - Yeah, dang it. I don't like the fact. And what did Jesus do? You know, he engaged the curious, right? Oh, you're genuinely curious, Nicodemus. Like, you're not just here to criticize me, you're curious. All right, he engages the curious, right? He feeds the needy, like you really hungry. So you want some help. So I'll, but he ignores the critics. You know what? I'm not giving you my time. They try to jam them up. He's like, oh, Jesus, uh, this coin, who should it go to? Caesar or God, we're going to get on with this one. Jesus is like, yeah, man. Yo, man, give me, go fishing, give me the fish. Get the coin out. Whose face is on this? Caesars, all right, and give it back to him. Now, give the God was his. Whose face is, whose face is on you? Whose signature is on you? God's signature. So give God what belongs to God. That's your, that's your job. You know what? I'm here for God. And then the other piece of advice I give you is like, man, just them voices don't count. Is there on their NPCs, bro? They don't count, bro. The voices that matter are the people in your life who really know you. Those are the voices you got to listen to. The rest are NPCs. It's like, man, you, they're just, you, you playing GTA and they're just walking around just yapping. It's like, bro, you, you get me off my mission. So if I start focusing on you, you get me off my mission. And that's why Jesus said, Father, forgive me. They don't know what they do. So you know, pray for them. For your own heart sake, I say pray for them. Because that'll help ease the tension. 'Cause you'll be like, Lord, I pray you open their eyes to see, you're already praying for your own eyes to be open. So that's the, that's the piece of advice I give you. You know, don't let the bitterness weigh you down, man. 'Cause if you start paying too much attention to it, you'll want to defend yourself. You'll want to say all this. And it's like, bro, just stay on the path. They're trying to get you, they're saying we'll use the church to get you off the path you're supposed to be on. Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong. You had a season where you wanted to take your life. Oh, for God's sake. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. What, what, what was that, what was that like? What were you battling with? It kind of, yeah. Yeah. Access to that. So, to give you like a full picture of it all, round one, I didn't know like, you know, my family has a history of like anxiety and depression, you know, in a sense. So, I didn't know that that was like a historical thing in my family. So it didn't really show up for me until I was younger, you know, like until I was like in my teens and then I kind of went through some seasons of depression and frustration. But, you know, I was smoking a lot of weed. I was just wild and so I just really was numbing the pain. I got older, I got into this altercation with this guy and he came and he brought a gun to meet me. I barely missed him, like I was driving one way, he was driving the other way. I didn't know he was after me and the gunshots went off in the air, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I didn't know he was shooting at me until later I found out. So I'm spazin. I'm so mad. And I'm like, I'm gonna get this dude. 'cause I'm going to get the gun, it was like I had a glitch. like my mental health glitched. And it was like, man, you're gonna ruin your life. You might as well kill yourself after you kill 'em 'cause your life's gonna be ruined. You're gonna go to jail, dah, dah, dah, dah. And then just start spiraling. And I was the first time I was like, something's not right, you know what I'm saying? So I knew that I had that potential to go there. The last time was, man, I was so be down by the church. It's just so be down. Just like, I was like, there's no hope because if this is my existence, God, I don't even have anywhere to turn. I can't even turn to the people who you have to wrap your arms around me. So where do I turn? And it was sad because I'm making all this money and one of the mentors that I had, you know, and I got blessed, I don't think he meant wrong. I just think he was insensitive. One of the mentors that I had was like, yo, you need to put me on salary, you know, so I can mentor you full time. And I was just like, I don't know how to take this. Like you asking me to pay you to disciple me? Like it just felt weird. And so now I'm don't even talk to him. You know, so I don't like, I don't know where to go. The church has even me alive. There's lies about me going on. And now I'm just like, I don't think there is a God. And that was the excuse I needed to go back to my vomit, you know what I mean? So it's like, well, I'm gonna go back to what I know since there's nothing nowhere else to go. I couldn't go fully back 'cause I'm married with kids. But I'm like, okay, well, how far back can I, I can go smoking and drinking and staying out late, going to the parties and the events. You know, I'm a celebrity. So it just got to a point where the Lord was convicting me of like, is this gonna be your existence? This is it? Like, this is your life. And I was like, I don't know where to go. I don't know if you're real. And man, I was in such a deep dark depressed state. All of a sudden depression just hit me. My brain, I woke up one morning, we were on tour. And a lot of my peers didn't know I was dealing with this. You know, and you know, we went out, we had some fun. We had some celebrations. They don't know I'm drinking way more than I should be. You know, like, I'm not drinking the moderation. I'm going in, trying to numb myself to stop my brain from drinking and I blacked out when I woke up the next morning on the tour bus, I was like, my brain just is in a fog. And I noticed like I didn't feel happy or sad and something was wrong and I was like, what is this? And I was like, let me watch. I got on social media and I was like, I'm not entertained. I was like, nothing is exciting to me. I don't crave food, I'm not even hungry. I'm usually hungry first thing in the morning. So I'm like, oh, shoot, I think this is depression. And I was like, I'll sleep it off. I try to sleep it off and I woke up and I still felt it. Next day, I still felt it. And I was like, oh, this is about to be my life. I was like, I don't want to live then. This is going to be life. I don't want to live. And so I'm literally sitting in the car and I'm like, how can I take myself out, you know? So in a way that wears like, it's the most painless way. So I'm like, literally thinking of the painless ways to go. And all I kept thinking about was my little kids at the time finding my lifeless body and the trauma that would have caused them and put them in the same cycle. And I was like, nah, I can't put anybody else through what I'm feeling right now. I got battle through this. I got fight through this. By the grace of God, I got help. I got therapy, you know, I repented, I confessed. I ended up coming, the Lord drew me back in. It's a longer story, but this is about a year and a half process of getting help, you know what I mean? So I know you've told this story before, but you were in Mexico and you read Tim Keller's Prodigal Profit Book. How did that kind of change the trajectory of everything? What was going on in your heart? Yeah. So at this point in time, I'm trying to get back together. I took off, I knew I wasn't healthy. And I'm like, all right, God, God had started really me back in, but I was still dealing with like some serious depression and some anxiety. And I said, man, I'm taking off of touring and everything. And I took off, my wife and I just went to Mexico, you know, it was like, let's just go to Mexico for a week and just be away from everything. And I'm, you know, I'm just trying to heal and get restored. And I remember, I'm sitting in this part I haven't told before, but I'm sitting in a hotel room. My wife is out, you know, about a pool or whatever. I'm just sitting in a hotel room and there's a knife on the table. And I'm like dealing with some crazy anxiety. And it's like my brain felt like a demonic attack. It was like, take the knife and stab yourself. Just do it, just do it, take yourself out. And I was like, what the heck, man? I'm like, yo, God, something I'm crying. I'm like, God, like I can't, this is crazy. These intrusive thoughts are hitting me like help me. And I remember sitting down just like I'm reading through the Prodigal Profit story of Jonah. And I'm like, Lord, please just give me anything. I'm just praying and I'm crying and I look out the window and I see water. The ocean is right outside the window. And I see water just shooting up out the ocean. And I'm like, oh God, now I'm going crazy. I'm seeing water, shoot out the ocean. I want to help me, please. And the Prodigal Profit is a book about Jonah and him being swallowed in the mouth of a whale. And I had been reading this. And on the nightstand is a stuffed whale, like a stuffed animal. I still have it. I stole that out there. I'll tell the leader. I think it was a gift anyway, but there's a stuffed whale. No, I mean, I've done that too. But I'm reading this book about a whale, the stuffed whale, and there's water shooting about it at the ocean. And in like two seconds, I see the whale emerge out of the ocean. And I'm like, God, I was like, I got you. I'm with you. Hang on. You in the belly of the beast right now. I'm going to get you out of this. And man, I just held on. And every, for like a month, straight after that, everywhere I go, I will see whales. Wow. Like not real whales. But it's like, yeah, I'm just like walking through the airport. I'm like, oh, God, I'm doing bad. And then I just like, it's a whale, a store with a whale. Why is there a whale all of a sudden? What is this? And the Lord just give you the little, the little breadcrumbs to remind you, like, I'm here. Wow. I'm walking through, I'm downtown one day, and I'm struggling. And then this little girl cuts in front of me and then she's got a whale on her backpack. And I'm just like, yo, I'll see you, Lord. Praise God. Yeah, bro. Man, those moments are sweet. Man, I'm trying to tell you just a little reminder. So those are the moments where God just started pulling me back in, little by little, man. And you know, it was a year and a half of getting healthy, getting healed of a lot of therapy, a lot of counseling, meeting with my pastor, and really just like getting myself healthy and not listening to all those outside, quit listening to the voices, you know, because I was like, oh, these are not the voices that matter. And I zeroed in on the voices who knew me, who cared about me, who wanted the best for me. And man, it's like water off my back now. I just, people have crazy stuff to say all the time. It's like, oh, you went to the ditty party. Whatever, bro, you know what I'm saying? Like whatever, bro, like I'm moving on. He's so fake, oh my gosh, whatever. He hasn't repented, whatever, man. Like, you know, I'm on my zone, I'm on my zone. For sure, for sure. So in the 20 years that you've been going through hip hop, ministry, influence, depression, reconstruction, all of it, your rhythms with Jesus have obviously changed. But like in this season, something I really respect, it was like when we were talking about finding the day and the time, thank you for coming on. I was talking to Flex and he was like, he was like, yeah, he does this thing till 10 AM. He's got a thing that he likes to do in the morning and get ready. And I really respect that. I'm the same way, I'm the same way. I like, I got a little thing where I got to do it. The best version of Bryce is if Bryce works out and gets this alone time with Jesus. It's like that duo right there. I'm the healthiest, most general version of myself. So what is your rhythm with Jesus right now? A lot of times I wake up immediately read the scriptures. 'Cause the temptation when you wake up is pick up that phone so it was going online. And I'm like, now let me give my attention to the Lord, and immediately get into the scriptures. And just like, I may get something I may not, but the Lord may download something into my spirit. He may not, but I'm just trying to zero in on the word, give me something that you want and it may come back to me. Something may hit me. And then I'm listening to something that is renewing my mind. So whether that is music or whether that is a sermon or whether that's a podcast, I'll just, I need 30 minutes of mind renewal, right? So sometimes it may be a book or whatever it is, but I just, Lord renew my mind. give me something new to grow. me and stretch me outside of your word. And then man is silence. I need silence. A lot of times we're spending so much time talking to God. We're not hearing. We're not listening. Wow. And so I'm like, Lord, what do you want to say? What do you want to say? And man, God has told me some amazing things in the silence. You know, like just let me be silent enough to hear from them. You know, the most recent thing God showed me in my in silence was I was like, what do I do next? And and and it was like be quiet. And he said, do the next right thing. But I was like, God, I'm trying to figure out this whole game plan for the rest of the year is I'm not giving you the plan. Just the next right step. That's it. It's all I'm giving you. I'm just a lamp to your feet, the lamp, the oil lamp. It's only enough for a little bit of just the next right step. It's all I'm going to give you. You know, God, I just had a baby, how to raise him into a godly young young man, feed him today. What what else? Hug him. He would pray for just the next right thing. And you just keep doing the next right. Keep making that left, left, left, left, left until you are where you need to be. And and then I hit the gym. And I hit the gym. And now my mind has been renewed. My body, you know, um, has the temple's been taken care of. Let's go. Let's start the day. I hate to cut it back to just said, but after I asked that question for me, I'm like, I can't overlook that you said this Diddy party. I got to go back to this. Yeah, let's do it. You went to a Diddy party. All right. Please tell me about this. This is what this is what people got to understand. First of all, there are the Diddy crazy debaturist nasty sexual events that he had. And then there are the entertainment, like press is invited events that he has. There are two different types of things. Way different. But when people say Diddy party, they immediately go to the nasty one. Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm saying, yeah, I give you your say. So I don't know anything about the nasty one. I never been to anything like that ever. I've been to the press event. So it was like B T awards. And he and post the award show. He invites the press and a few celebrities to come to this big part. I mean, everybody's in Leonardo DiCaprio was in there freaking Jimmy. I've aimed Madonna, Chris Brown does a dance off with another. Uh, Laurie. And like, it was crazy, bro. It was wild. Like, but it was, I mean, Drake's dad, like, everybody's the press has taken pictures. It's like, uh, it's not private at all. Yeah. The fans are lined up around his house trying to look in the gate because they could see inside. So it's like, it was chaos. It was like, I mean, it's literally a thousand people out there. Yeah. So there's nothing crazy going on. It's just like, it's, it's just a big giant festival. Yeah. You know, that's really what it was like, you know, have I been to an event where it got a little dicey? Yes. But it wasn't diddy. It was a producer in Atlanta. And I went to his, he, he had an event at his house. And I saw two dudes start kissing in the corner. And I was like, yo, this is getting wild. This is getting crazy. And then another lady who's a Christian, she's like, yo, Kray, after midnight, it gets kind of wild. You might want to slide. And I was like, bet. Say less. So I was up out of there. You know, I never saw get crazy. And now I just saw two dudes kissing. They were fully clothed. You know, what I'm saying? But that was all I needed to see. He's like, oh, it's getting okay. All right. Let me, let me roll on. But as far as diddy's concern, first of all, and both of those parties, the first one is like shoot, like 12 years ago. The diddy event was, what, 2016, 2017. So it was almost 10 years ago. So I was in a whole different headspace even at that time. Like it, like did I do anything sinful? No. But was I being the light I could have been? I don't think I was. I think I could have been more of a light. I think I was in a dark place where I was just like, I don't care. Where we going? Let's go. Yeah. You know, and yeah, I think I could have been more of a light. But what I will say is I got a couple of phone numbers at that event of celebrities that I still keep up with to this day. Praise God. And they've seen the fruit and the transformation. And they've been blessed by it. And like, man, like, you know, it's kind of like, yeah, they have a person to reach out to when they're processing faith and processing things along those lines. So did you ever meet him like in person? Like, like, yeah, like dab him up. I heard this one story. It's like this guy who went to like, I guess like a diddy event or whatever. And he came up to him and was like, he was like, come give diddy some love. And like, I'm like, I'm like, winning for a hug and I'm like, what the heck? Nah. So I didn't know if it was anything. I never, I mean, he was there. I saw him. But, I mean, you know, he's security and this different. And I don't know the guy. Plus, I'm not going to be one of a hundred people like, Mr. Diddy, Mr. Diddy, Mr. Diddy, Mr. Diddy. What I will say is like, the, I've seen him at another event. This is the, um, the rock nation brunch that Jay-Z hosted. Which I know everyone's going to think this, these are just illuminati events and why am I even there? It's so funny to me. But it's like the furthest thing from the truth. It's just, it's really like a barbecue with somebody's house. Really what it is. It's a barbecue with somebody's house. That's what it is. Um, but, uh, but when I saw Diddy at that of rock nation event, I saw some, I, it's like, I could see the hollowness in him. Like, I was like, it's hard to describe. But when you see somebody, you're like, yo, you are empty. You are struggling. And I could see it, you know, he just did not look good. Didn't look healthy. And, um, and I do remember in that moment, like, I was a healthier version of myself at that point in time. I do remember like, I need to pray for him. That's good. Yeah. So I always like to ask my married friends and guess this question. Yeah. I've only been married three months. What is the greatest piece of marriage advice you could give me? You're not going to like it. Uh oh. I mean, a lot of people may not like it, but, um, especially like the modern day culture that we live in. But, um, I firmly believe that God created, you know, order within the marriage. I firmly believe that the man is called to lead. Mm hmm. And it doesn't mean he needs to be a tyrant. It doesn't mean he needs to be, but I think too many times culture has shaped us men to be like, well, what do you want to eat, babe? What do you want to eat? Instead of being like, yo, man, go make a reservation. Go make a decision. Be a leader and say, hey, I made reservations for here. Let's go. Let's roll. I just think men wearing this indecisive society and culture were so afraid of offending. Um, and listen, I think women are brilliant. I think women have, um, I don't think they're less than any of those by any shape of the imagination. I just think we're in a society where men are afraid to lead. Mm hmm. You know, we're just afraid to be leaders and and be a leader in service, be a leader in humility, be a leader and apologize in first, like, but lead. Yeah. I think we're just in a place where we're we have really bought into this, this idea that man is, it's going to be this 50, 50 thing and you know, well, I can't pull my weight this month, but she's got it brother. If you sit around with, well, you know, I can't, I don't know brother, may call me old school, but I'm like, look, if I sit around waiting on my wife to be the spiritual leader in the house, like, I'm not doing my job. So I'll say, Lee, that's what I would say as a man outside of that, the other thing I would just tell you is that man, who you are and who you're married to is not who you will be and who you're married to 10 years from now. Wow. That's encouraging. So both of that's encouraging. I love that. Like even, even just, I'm in this phase where I'm like learning, I'm in that process where I'm like learning what leadership looks like. I'm like, what does it look like to like lead a disagreement? What does it look like to lead by making the decision of where we go to eat? What does it look like in leading? We literally just had to get Maddie a new car because her sister, they gave, she gave her sister her old car because her sister didn't have a car. So we had to get her new car. It's like, which car do we buy? Like, how do you lead in all these decisions? So I'm like, man, that's just so encouraging to hear, like, you know, keep leading. You got to be good. You got to be so good. But being a good leader means you're a good follower. It means you're really following the Lord and your hand from God. So it's like, my wife followed me into the trap. We, I say, we're moving a Memphis into the hood. She wasn't like, wait, what are you doing? What's going on? She's like, I trust this man's leadership. I trust his vision. I trust his hand from God. And I'm going to follow what you said in Memphis. Memphis. Y'all were in there. - We was in that boy. I'm trying to tell you, Memphis, I was like, I'm going to brace myself. - You were in it, bro. - And I love Memphis. I love it too, man. - I love Memphis, but man, that's-- - Yeah, I got everybody there. - I'm being Hampton, boy. We was in the Hampton, we was in the trap, boy. We was in there, so. And I'm like, she was like, all right, let's do it. I'm following your lead. But that's leadership is like, man, I have a vision. I have a plan. I'm not going to lead us astray. And it's not like your voice doesn't matter. It's just that, like, I take responsibility for the direction that we're going to go, you know what I mean? So that would be my advice. Don't mean be a tyrant, don't mean like, hey, this is it. But if she says, hey, what do you want to eat for dinner tonight? Do you want chicken or do you want fish? You don't say, well, what do you want? It's not sexy to her anyway. It's not sexy to her, like, I'm filling chicken. OK, I'm going to check it. [LAUGHTER] I like that. Like, it's not sexy to be like, what do you want, babe? It's like, OK. I don't know what do you want. I like that. I like that. Just, yeah, man, be a leader. Take a stance. I admire you. I respect you. I'm encouraged by you. I think the world of you. So I really appreciate you a ton. Oh, man. Fist versa, brother. Like, we need more of you, bro. We need-- I love the energy that you come with. And, man, what you represent for a generation, man. Sensei. Thank you for saying that. I'd love for you to pray for everyone as we close out, everyone that's watching us. Absolutely. Father God, we thank you for every single individual who is-- Lord, just whose eyes and ears are on this conversation right now. I don't know all the different things that our people are struggling with. But you do. And, Lord, God, you promised that you'll never leave us no for seconds. Matter of fact, you always give a promise in the middle of the pain. And so, God, I pray, even when we think about Jeremiah 29/11, that I know the plans that I have for you-- plans for a future in a whole-- Lord, that promise came in the time of pain. And God, I pray that people will remember that your promises hold true. God, that they would hold on to your promises. Lord, would you show them that you are a promised keeper? Would you show them that you're faithful? Would you show them that whatever it is that they wrestle with, or struggle with, that you're bigger than that? And God also pray for just the critical spirit that lives in all of us, that wants to critique and criticize and judge, Lord, that you will quiet that voice and allow us to grow and to thrive and to be encouraging toward one another in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.