LeBron No Longer a Laker. Plus, Kawhi Back in the Six! | Real Ones

What's poppin real ones Logan Murdoch here Roger Bell and Howard Beck in a minute. We go long on LeBron and then a little bit on Kui and then an epic rant from Howard Beck on JAMA rant all that next cliff Victoria bin by the theme music. What's poppin real ones Logan Murdoch here Roger Bell there Howard Mother fucking back in the cut man. I don't even know where to start yes I actually do know where to start LeBron James is a free agent again you know it was building towards this everybody and you know there was so many rumors throughout the season will he be back in LA will he be gone we finally got a little bit of clarity one is that he's not going to he's going to play next season for the 26 27 season but it is not going to be with the Los Angeles Lakers and there's rumors about we are going to try to make sense of those and we are also going to try to talk about his legacy and then we have another trade you know that we're going to talk about later in the program Kauai Leonard is going back to Toronto but first let's stay in the west coast for now LeBron James leaving the Los Angeles Lakers I want to start with Howard Beck here why didn't it ultimately work out with LeBron and the Lakers after eight seasons. I mean it worked out for eight seasons and they want a championship and they were pretty good and they were relevant and he brought them back so like before we talk about the ending and what went wrong is I think we still need to at least acknowledge how much they used to parties needed each other LeBron James needed the Lakers in 2018 when he went there and the Lakers badly badly needed LeBron James in 2018 because it had been a long time since they'd been good Kobe been retired his last few years weren't so great like LeBron made the Lakers the Lakers again let's not forget so there's that and then he brings Anthony Davis there and they went a championship where things went a rise sideways some sort of direction that wasn't straight is that out of the blue Niko Harrison gifted them Lucodonchich and nothing has been the same since and like that's it like if Lucodonchich never becomes available and he never should have been I think LeBron James is still Laker right now I don't think that's a stretch I don't think that's hyperbole I don't think that's a crazy narrative of any sort he became expendable they beat they found their new tent pole their new foundational piece in Luca and while they've played well together and while at times the Lakers have still been very dependent on LeBron especially with Luca and Austin Reeves out in that first round series a couple months back but the fact is you cannot build cogently coherently and sustainably around Luca which you now have to do as long as LeBron is still present taking up a lot of oxygen and on the books at a really high cap number and I think we should have all seen that this was coming a year ago at this time when the Lakers did not offer an extension LeBron opposite to the last year of his deal makes him an expiring contract for the first time in forever and like it was all telegraph then we were inevitably getting to this moment where LeBron James and the Lakers were going to have to look at each other and say you know what we had a great time it's time to move on the Lakers need to start building around Luca and LeBron needs to figure out where he best fits in this final stage whether that's a year or two or whatever it is but they don't make sense together anymore I think this is the most logical conclusion. 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Do you agree with that Arraja yes I thought LeBron was going to leave the Lakers there was I mean I've come on before and talked about how well I think he transitioned what what a good soldier he was in terms of being able to kind of acclimate to new roles on the fly both on the court and probably in the locker room definitely within the organization that doesn't mean he had to love any of that though and I never got the sense that he loved that everything that Howard said is true about the Lakers and what they need to do but LeBron had a choice and you know it's it's not unlike Jalen Brown except it's completely different than Jalen Brown in that there's a level of respect that you think you should be shown or given and if and if that's if that's not what you're feeling you know it there are times when you if you have the opportunity you may move on now where where he winds up is going to be very very interesting like I've heard a lot of a lot of things I'm assuming it's going to be about chasing championships but is it going to be about championships and and desirable city to live in is it quite like what how he passes out what that next step looks like for him and what's important and what the priority is is going to be interesting but I never got the sense that LeBron was happy about the way it is unfolded there in LA I thought he handled it gracefully I thought he played phenomenally even better in in in some spots than I thought he would trying to make that adjustment but I never got the sense that he was really really excited and happy to be doing it well I mean we'll get to the reporting part of it at some point as the reports come out right but like my thing was you know going into this this free agency for LeBron was I know the Lakers offer everything that you could theoretically want as a even as a you know second on the call sheet however you want to put him on the call sheet behind Luca Dotticin and Austin Reeves he's still LeBron James and being a Laker as you're on your way out has his advantages right and retiring as a Laker has a certain advantages um and I always thought that you know that had a big chance to winning out in this situation right you know the new ownership we just say hey Brian what do you want we'll figure this out for one more year because you are a Laker for life in our in our eyes right and that's also going by the old the old guard you know the old guard in which Howard Beck has covered once upon a time and I just thought that that that could be the best option for him Howard how did why wasn't that the way because throughout our history of watching the Lakers you know Kareem is getting a farewell you know magic Kobe um if you want one and you feel like you are a Laker for life and you are institutionalized as one of those guys you get that why why couldn't LeBron and the Lakers just figure that part of it out in the end right and I know it's a weird set of circumstances but why ultimately couldn't they just figure that part out I mean not everybody got there like happy Romantic send off like check I traded to Miami heat and you know took years before he was like kind of welcome back into the fold with the statue and everything else uh so like it doesn't always go that way I think yeah this is from a from a standpoint of just history and tradition and honoring your greats this isn't the ideal send off your right Logan like this should have been his last stop and again would have been if not for Luca because what where they would have been instead was a team based around LeBron and probably still Anthony Davis with some okay role players that was a first round out that wasn't going to go anywhere and it would have been like the later Kobe years right now the later Kobe years to be clear Kobe had to overcome Achilles and all that other stuff so he wasn't himself he couldn't carry a team LeBron still kind of can right he's still better than 90% of players in the NBA on his best nights but 82 games is a lot to ask of him but in a world where they don't get Luca you've got a middling to maybe top five ish top six is playoff team and and you ride LeBron until he retires and that's it and maybe you hope somewhere along the way you find a guy to be his heir but that's really hard it almost never happens so in the scenario that they do have you now have to make hard choices that you would have never had to took confront before and so I don't think anybody wanted this I don't think genie bus or rob polinka or the new ownership for that matter I don't think anybody would have wanted it to end this way where it's like we'll just shake hands and say it's it's been real but our path in yours diverge now but I think everybody's a realist the prospect of this league a long time rich Paul's been around this league a long time these guys understand it I'm sure I'm sure they're not thrilled but they got to understand it like there's it's you just hit a fork in the road it doesn't make sense for them to continue together even if LeBron were willing now I should stop there if LeBron were And we're willing to take a fraction of what he says. he's been making and was okay with that. In addition to being essentially a third wheel next to Luca and Austin Reeves, then maybe, but that's still a tough path for the Lakers to go down because what they really need to do is completely re-imagined this roster around Luca now or around Luca and Austin Reeves. And that's super, super hard to do with LeBron still there no matter what he's making, and especially if he's making a substantial amount. So I don't think there's any good answer here and we'll, you know, drips and drabs of reporting will come out in the days and weeks ahead as to how they got to this exact conversation point. Like, what were the Lakers willing to do to keep him? Would he have been willing to go there? How much was he? You know, I think it's interesting the way this unfolded, I came from LeBron's camp that LeBron has decided to move on, not that the Lakers had decided to move on. I think there's probably a hell of a lot of nuance and gray area there that we don't know yet. And I think it's fully possible that this was actually the Lakers letting him signaling to LeBron's camp. Listen, we have to start rebuilding around Luca right now. We're on the clock. This dude's in his prime. He's a top five player in the NBA. We have to do this and you say it as respectfully as possible. And then LeBron and Rich Paul take the narrative and say we've decided to move on. That's probably what happened. Yeah. How does that make you feel? I mean, you guys would know better than me. How does that guide me? I'm not making you feel. No, I mean, I'm not tapped in like you guys are, man. I'm running around here. And I'm speculating, Roger. Some of my vibes. Yeah. But I heard that like he was unavailable to the Lakers for golfing reasons over the last week or so when they had the exclusivity of talking to him, I mean, that's the report that I heard. So I mean, I don't know I could, I mean, I certainly don't know in any way, shape or form. But as soon as I heard that, I was like, oh, yeah, that, that's not good. I mean, that's the interesting part of all this though, Roger, right? Because you were also like in the, in the 2014 wait and see like era of LeBron going to the Cavaliers, but it's like, there's always two forms of LeBron and for agency. There's a very engaged LeBron in the offseason. Like I'm going to help out and then like there's also the hands off approach, like I'm not going to answer any calls. You could just go to my representation like how the, what is it like being on the two sides of that? Oh, I've been on, I've seen that from every side. And before the 2014, I was caught in the whole like everyone's going to wait to see where LeBron goes. When was that? That was Oh 2010, 2010, the decision. Was that when he went to Miami? Yeah. So like, I mean, myself and probably a large part of the league that wasn't a superstar was just sitting around and free agency was not moving until that domino fell. So, you know, that was frustrating. I mean, that was, you know, I had some, some real anxiety that time around the block just because I wanted to know where I was going to go. I wanted to know what my, what my future was going to look like. But you're in the front office. I don't really remember that one clearly because I was kind of in, I was going to the calves that year when he was going to the calves. It was pretty quick. That one didn't strike me the same way as, as being a player and basically having to wait until his domino of free agency fell and then the rest of us could kind of shuffle around and, and, but at this point in his career, I don't imagine it is that for that many guys. Now they're going to be some, I would imagine that if he can land with a really, really nice group, he'd be attractive to some probably fringe guys that would come in and, and kind of supplement in that way. But, you know, my, my most interesting time around the block with LeBron is a free agent obviously, 2010. Yeah. You brought up a great point though, like the people circling the wagons for LeBron, right? And I think it's like we're in this social media age and this new age that is very different from the other times of LeBron has been here, right? And I feel like his, his agents and his side of the story is trying to put out feelers in the old fashioned way of like, hey, we're going to scour the league and see who gives us the best opportunity in the best market and the best, you know, everything, right? And I don't know what the landscape is going to be for LeBron right now. Howard, like what is your, what is your gut telling you about what the landscape of like who actually wants him now? We are going to get into the teams that like just we think he could be cool, a cool fit for later on in the segment, but like where's your gut telling you about the market of a LeBron James at this particular point? Well, the market isn't, you know, it was upon a time the market was, um, are you important enough, cool enough in a good enough city or with emotional ties to even get LeBron's attention, right? So like in 2010, it's both L.A. teams, it's Chicago, big market, New York, big market, new jerseys soon to be in Brooklyn, big market, Miami, glamor market, um, those are the teams and then Cleveland, of course, trying to keep him like, so, but the market for LeBron, when it comes to like, um, what you can pay him, LeBron's not getting the max at this stage. He's 41 and a half. Um, and I don't like the only place you could get anywhere near his old salary was to stay in L.A. That's obviously off the table now. Um, he's worth over a billion. I think he'll be okay. But he is now having to weigh things like someone who has the taxpayer mid level versus the non taxpayer mid level versus the, you know, room exception versus like we're talking about a guy who's got who's worth over a billion is now in theory considering whether Miami versus Cleveland versus Golden State versus whoever can give him like 10 versus 12 million or what I think it's, it's almost like preposterous to even talk about. But the market in terms of teams that could use him that he'd be useful for and team in the NBA, every fucking team in the NBA. I was just saying that so I'm, I'm hanging with, with friends out west right now and they're not all like real key down in the NBA. And so I was trying to explain the landscape today. I was like, listen, here's what I can tell you about LeBron James at age 41 and a half. Um, he's still better than 430 out of the 450 players in the NBA. And I'm still being a little conservative there because that number is probably even higher than that. Like he is still an impact player. And that said, you know, he has to decide where he's going to be happy for his last, whatever it's going to be year or two. That was always LA for the last several years for the last eight years because his family liked it there. He liked it there, you know, he was able to get Barani on the Lakers. Um, that was a thing that happened. Um, like there were advantages to being in LA. Now it's about what do I want my, my swan song to be? And is it the emotional, you know, return to Cleveland and the sentimental, sentimental ties there? Is it a reconciliation with Miami? And that's already been reported that, that they're open to it. And look, they just, they're getting honest. They got, they got, like, Yannis, like Yannis and LeBron and, and bam, would be really interesting, right? LeBron with Donovan Mitchell and James Harden and Evan Mowley would be really interesting. LeBron and the Warriors scenario, that's the thing too. Like this is not, we know this is not necessarily sudden or leaving LeBron in the lurch because the, we've been hearing warrior stuff for literally months. Um, and even some Cleveland stuff and even a little bit less than that Miami. The, like the obvious teams have been kind of preparing for this for a while. Yeah. As a possibility. Now, whether there's anybody beyond those three teams, um, I think Sam Amick just reported Minnesota, um, just before we started recording. So and Minnesota, look, you know, Tim Connelly is not afraid to chase an anybody, right? Um, they may be the long shot in all this because LeBron has no ties there and it's cold. But that's what I was saying. I mean, I'm sorry. Who says no, right? Yeah. But that's like that. That's from note from being around him just a little bit, like that's why I said what I said before is like, they're going to, that's a, I couldn't see him in a city like Minnesota. Do you know what I mean? How are like no disrespect to Minnesota. But that, that one would just be really weird for his career. Sorry. Anyway, hasn't, no, no, hasn't been his MO, right? Yeah. Yeah. He was in Cleveland twice because he's from Akron and they first, you know, they got his draft rights, initially it's 2003 and then he went back there out of, you know, emotional and familial ties, right? Like, but that's the only city like that smaller market, cold weather market that I could kind of see him in. Like I don't see some scenario where suddenly he's going to like, not a cold weather city, but I don't see a scenario where suddenly going to like, Charlotte to join, you know, Brandon Miller and Conkiniple, right? Like, like, I think there's a, I think we can cross out all the usual teams that we would normally cross out for a superstar of his caliber. Um, and the thing is even the ring chasing thing, normally you get to this stage of a, of a career for a superstar and they're in play, it's well, go to the team no matter where they are that can get you the, give you the best chance to win a championship. He's got his rings. Like, I'm sure he'd love to have what would be a fifth. But like, I don't see him going to the thunder or the spurs, even if those teams wanted him. Um, I don't, I, like, I know we talked about him to go into the nicks a thousand times, especially back in 20. Hey, you're messing up. No, no, no, no, no, you're messing up the segment, man. Stop doing the negative stuff. We're about to have some fun in a second. Howard, hold on. I got a question. I don't have a rundown in front of me that tells me anything about you mentioning the nicks. Hey, man, we have a fun. We're having a lot of fun. Listen, that's why that's why we didn't do the rundowns. Why did it give it to you? Because 'Cause I wanted you to have some fun, man. - I didn't know what I was. - I can't know what I'm spoiling. I hope that's, I hope that's a beer in your hand right now. Um, anyways. I'm trying to cover the label. So we don't violate the last question before we get to the teams that we would like to see LeBron on and like some fun scenarios. But I want to ask this. I want to look fuck a few years ago. I think that I made Roger almost blow a damn gasket when I said this. But I don't believe even now that LeBron is leaving the Lakers as a top 20 below. I love it Laker at this point, um, talking about beloved. I'm not even talking about best, right? Um, and I want to ask you, I want to put this question to the panel. Um, is he that and what do we think that L.A. is ultimately going to remember him by? And then what are they going to remember him by? And what should they remember him by? Howard Beck first, when you say 20, like, I mean, who's on this list? Like Devon George and Norton Nixon? Like how? I'm talking about, I'm talking about, okay, cool, cool, magic, um, talking about cream, talking about, uh, Wilts Chamberlain, Jerry West, um, that's four. Okay. Jerry West. It then, um, Elgin Baylor, um, Shaquille O'Neal, six, uh, Michael, this is no particular order. This is just 20 people that I think will be more beloved over Kobe Bryant, Kobe Bryant, um, Michael James Worthy, uh, Michael Cooper, um, Byron Scott, um, Bob McAdoo, okay. Bob McAdoo, um, 11, Paul Gassar, Kurt Rambus, Kurt Rambus, um, who else? You couldn't even say it without a fucker. What are we doing? What are we doing? Robert? Robert, we're at 16 right now, okay. We are at 16 and you're like, yeah, I don't know. We're just, um, George Michen, George Michen, Lamar Odom, Lamar Odom, Saphoujavic, Saphoujic, perhaps, stop. Okay, but I'll, Elgin Millis, I haven't had 18 and there's two people that could be better be more below. Yeah. All right. I'm not going to get it. Martin. Martin. I'm really I know you're saying beloved, not greatest, I'm saying beloved, I'm not saying greatest. Gale Goodrich. That's right. I don't know. I don't know Laker history. Well enough. I don't know. I will say is a former Laker beat writer. There's some stretches in there, Logan, but I get what you're saying, Brad Turner, uh, Kim Kawakami, um, Howard Beck, um, Bill Plash, Jay Doddey, no, but I'm being serious. Okay. The question that I have though is that, that this is leading up to is how, how will L.A. remember LeBron and the era and how should they remember him? I do think there was a lot of resistance when he first got there, right? There was still a lot of LeBron versus Kobe stuff and the Kobe stands in particular were not all that welcoming. And I'll never forget one of those early records that LeBron got within his first couple of years there and they like stopped the game, whatever. And it didn't even seem like like the applause was that loud, right? Was it when he passed Michael Jordan for the, for the scoring, for the, uh, scoring record? I think that was what it was. It might have been. Yeah, but it was one of those, those markers, one of those milestones and it just seemed like a kind of a tepid response and you could just feel like, damn, man, if that had been Kobe or even if that had been Shaq, if that had been magic, whatever it would have been much different. And because like the emotional ties to him were just different. He was already a made man before he got there. He had his three championships before he got there. He'd been in the league for a long time before he got there. Like it's not the same as when it's your own guy or if he'd come to you needing that, that the power of the Laker brand, again, the Laker brand needed LeBron as much or more than LeBron needed them at that time. But the fans don't have to care about that. The fans just care about do we love you? Do we embrace you? And I think it took time. I think by the time this thing ends, which is now, I think Laker, them kind of warmed up to him. And I do think like he is embraced, I do think he is part of that. It's not the same tier as the guys who were either Kobe who's homegrown, magic who's homegrown, or you know, Karim who got there a specific time and place that that that resonated and plus the partnership with magic like these other guys occupy a different space. I agree with that Logan. But I do think he'll be remembered as a guy who put the Lakers back on the map after they'd been years in the desert post Kobe or just post his his his final championship in in 2010, right? It had been a while. It's in its 10 years between titles LeBron put them back on the map. LeBron got them another another banner. It sucks they never got to really celebrate that one right because it happened during COVID. So no home, you know, no home celebration for it. No parade. And I can't remember ring night was probably real muted to because we weren't putting everybody back in the buildings yet. It was still so, but I listen, he'll still be remembered as an all time great Laker. But yeah, on a different tier than the other ones. Some of the other ones you mentioned, I think he's I think he's comfortably ahead of Mark Madsen. Well, we'll see. Let's let the let's let the real ones aside in the comments. Roger. Well, how should they remember LeBron James? Look, any time I've said this before, this is what I will say to that question. Any time you as a fan get to regularly, if you attend games or if you're watching every night, watch greatness and we're talking about a select few. We're talking about. I mean, that's a go. Right. When you get to witness that and it's running around in your Jersey championship or not, you should cherish the time that you got to witness it performing for your team. If you didn't, then shame on you, right, because that doesn't come around often. There you go. Good shame, man. That was very good. Let's say quick break and we're going to play a fun game that Howard might walk off the show for. Yo, you know who would be joe me back on real ones. You guys know why LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, what are you even saying, man, you know, it's been a hell of a run, truly. I want to, I can't get to say everything I want to say because it's not my show. No, it's Logan, Roger and HBZ, but I'll always remember the good times. I'll always remember you coming down here. We didn't have to know we was in the mud back then. You remember those days, man, some of my famous golf, luau, dang, you know, we was like, I was, I was trying to give Kendall Marshall all star votes, you know what I mean? It was, um, it was a brutal time, but you changed all of it for us, you know, I know that injury on Christmas day against the Warriors was tough, but came back got a D. You made the run, man, that 2020 championship means a lot. I'll always remember you standing there, you know, after Kobe was, Kobe died and you were crying along with us, you know, you did it for being. And so that I can't, I can't be mad at that, you know, hey, first in C's tournament, that was us, you know, like we did that. I say we as if I was on the team, but you know what I mean. So, uh, thank you. It took the Lakers from a shell of their former selves, you know, irrelevant, uh, poorly run just a decrepit organization to be frank and brought them back to where they're supposed to be. You know, the highlight factor, the pinnacle of basketball, that, that does, that does mean a lot. And, uh, I, anybody else who disagrees, I know people maybe upset, you know, like fans who didn't want them here and all that stuff, but really all can say, thank you. Okay. Boom. I have a list of teams, some of which Howard has pooped on, but it doesn't matter because it's about fit. If we would love to see it, um, the first name on the agenda is the Golden State Warriors who, um, I've said this all along and being Howard is talking about, I know, me and Roger have talked about it, but I feel like the Golden State Warriors were always the team in the weeds. They were always that other person. I was like, yo, if that relationship don't work out, I'm right here, baby. I'm right here for you. And now they're in prime position, um, to be able to state their case, um, to LeBron James. Oh, how would this fit? How would we like to see? What would the pros and the cons of this move, um, Howard Beck? I mean, Logan already knows. I love the idea of LeBron and Steph playing together. They were awesome together on the Olympic team, their friends, they, you know, they, they compare notes on their careers. They're at similar stages, their careers. Plus listen, like the old rivals becoming allies, you know, Rocky and Apollo, come on. This is awesome. We love this shit. Uh, it's a little weird, I will say, um, longtime listener honorary real one friend of the show, my friend Joanne up in Portland, not happy about this possibility. This is, this is given her a lot of angst, um, which she doesn't need right now because the giants, her baseball team have already been given her a lot of angst because the giants are acting like idiots. Um, so like it's, it's, it's, it's not perfect. If you're a longtime Steph fan, longtime warrior fan, the idea of LeBron after all those battles in the finals coming in, possibly overshadowing Steph in the final stages of their careers, right? Because they're both. Both on fair will tours of some sort now. We don't know when either of them's gonna hang it up or if it's at the same time. And like they're gonna kinda like, they're gonna have to share that. Much the same that Steph had to like share this potlite with K.D. for a couple of years, right? And Warriors fans were always happy with that. I love it. I love it as a competitive thing too, 'cause I think they could actually make some noise if they're healthy in April, May, and potentially beyond, no one's gonna wanna see Steph LeBron, Jimmy Butler, and Dremont Green. I guarantee that. Will they be upright? We don't know. But if they are, nobody wants to see that. So yeah, I love it. I understand Joanne and some of my other friends who are in Warriors, Dumb, may not like it so much. - From a purely basketball standpoint, it will be weird in the case of you would have to be basically playing with two teams, right? Like you'll be playing first the Steph, Zraymon, LeBron, Ledverson, and then you're gonna have to bring in Jimmy Butler into the fold, say like around January, around all-star break. From basketball standpoint, how do they fit in the first team and how do they include Jimmy back into the fold going in to assuming they're healthy? - Look, I don't mean any. Jimmy's a great player. So what I'm about to say doesn't discredit like anything that he's done, but I don't see him as a great fit there. I don't know that he is the player that he was when he was taking Miami to finals years ago, and if you have a lesser version of that, that's not really a shooter. You've got LeBron, Draymon. Christap's help, Steph is gonna be the thing that just orbits and just flies around the court. I love LeBron and Draymon in that. I kinda, I don't know how Jimmy fits into it. I would have to see it. I would actually like them to get a more shot first two guard to play with that group. Do you know what, if that would make sense? - Like Clay Thompson. - So yeah, like Clay Thompson, or you could give me a poor man's version, but like a game that wants to do that. You know, the way Jimmy wants to, the way Jimmy needs to play if we're being honest to like be the Jimmy Butler from Miami, it's a contradictory style to what LeBron's gonna do. They kinda made it work with just Steph, but like you're gonna put it in there with LeBron, and then you're gonna, if you allow Jimmy to do Jimmy, then LeBron turns into what he was for the Lakers, which is, hey man, get some rebounds run. Do you understand, like you're not using him to be, they just, I don't see them clicking like that, as a for some, if that makes sense. - Can I push back slightly though, or just theorize? - Sure. - Roger. So you've got Porzingus, a three point shooting center. So you've got the spacing there. Draymon's an on shooter, Jimmy's an on shooter, and that was already a problem for the warriors, right? Like they were trying to figure that out on the fly, just for the last year or so before Jimmy got hurt. But I also think like, you know, and obviously Steve Kerr coaches this way. He likes a bunch of guys who are like really intuitive with the ball on their hands. And you've got guys in Jimmy, Steph, LeBron, Draymon, who are all like elite in the way they read the game. I gotta think there's a way, when you've got them there, you do have still two non shooters, and maybe you're gonna stagger, lineups and everything else. And that's the great thing too, right? Whether it's Jimmy or LeBron, somebody's always running that off and see even when Steph's off the floor. I don't know, a lot of intuitive high IQ basketball players together and with Steph and Porzingus as the main shooters out there. I don't know, seems plausible. I mean, LeBron's a good shooter too. - Yeah, but that's not it. Look, again, if we're talking about LeBron just becoming a three point shooter, then I'm out. - Not just a three point shooter. - Like, no, I understand what you're saying. And I'm plausible is what you said? Yeah, I could see it. But look, you got Steph running around, right? And you got Chris Stabs, right? And then you have three people that mostly want to operate. Get, like, well, Jimmy and LeBron are downhill kind of players, although LeBron can shoot the ball, right? LeBron at his best is making plays as he's collapsed in defense. Now he doesn't do it to the same degree, but he can still command a double. You have to throw the ball to Jimmy. And yeah, they can play off of each other. I don't know if I'm explaining this well. So I'm not saying it won't work, but I don't see it being the type of clicking offense that it would be if you had something that wanted to just streamline it and be more complimentary to that threesome, if you will, in a shooting capacity. - Right. - From a basketball standpoint though, just running, just watching the Warriors offense, like how much do, how can the Warriors overcome the redundancy of Zraymon and LeBron both on the court at the same time? Not saying that they can't do it. I'm really just asking because, you know, like they basically functionally play the same role. LeBron's a way better version of what Zraymon does offensively. So how do they kind of coexist in that offense for right now? Like how do you see that happening in June 30th? Look, I think when one of them has the ball and the other one is in some sort of action with Steph Curry, you have a problem. Like you have a problem as a defense. There are three super high IQ players and to some degree Howard, that's what you're saying, right? You had Jimmy Butler to that and those actions are on both sides of the floor and you know, it could be really problematic. So that's what, you know, that's what I would say to you Logan. Just, you know, I've done a lot of research on this and thought about it. You're asking me a question on the fly, but one of them is gonna have the ball and the other one I'm gonna put in an action with Steph as much as possible. And then we're gonna see, you know, if that defense can get that right over and over again and I've got at least two guys who've mastered it and LeBron is such a genius. I don't think it's gonna be far behind before he masters it too. And they're in, you know, it's gonna be, you know, how we incorporate both of them with relatively similar, you know, kind of skill sets in passing the ball and seeing the floor. You add a fourth to that and I don't, I wanna go back howard like I don't, I feel you, it would just be so dope. If that fourth player and fifth player, the defenders that were guarding them had to be anchored to them. Because if they're anchored to them, then there's nothing you can do when I'm telling you I'm playing these in a three man game all game. When they're not anchored to them, you bring in that fourth defender and look, they're probably good enough to get over it, but it just introduces another defender to the mix. - Yeah, man. On the court, I think best case scenario is the 22 warriors where they go on that major run to start the season and they kind of coast the rest of the way through and then they get themselves ready for the post season. That's the best case scenario for this type of team in this vaulted of a Western conference. So we'll see what happens is from an all court perspective. Off the court, it's going to be very interesting. I kind of took a peek at like warriors, you know, social media and they just want to take anything they can get. At first, I thought the premise was going to be there, it's going to be like a weird, you know, it's going to be a weird vibe of rooting for LeBron after all these years, but you know, this late stage warrior's dynasty, so they'll take anything they can get. So we'll see what happens on that end. I think that step will obviously be amenable to this that I think they will figure it out. I think it will be fun. The only thing is the health. Like that is the big boogie man in here and the age from all of those guys, Jimmy, Dreymon out of all these guys has been the healthiest guy, but you got to think about Steff's house, their age is going to be a real auction. It's going to be like when Raja hangs out with all of his former son's teammates. Except for my basketball. I'll see you brothers in Springfield. Straight like that. Okay, all right. I have another team. I'm thinking we'll throw a wild card out there. Let's go with the nuggets. How do we see him in the mix with the nuggets? What's you think? I see you, I see you a little part going over it. I like him with the nuggets. What are we giving? Are we just incorporating him into that? We're just incorporating him into the mix. Oh, dude, yeah, all day. How does that work? Like functional. What do you mean? Well, I'm asking you. Look, LeBron played the four this year and stretches of the season and look pretty good doing it. It's not unlike Golden State. Like they run a lot of, a lot of feel actions. You know what I mean? Where you just have to have a feel for one another. Jamal Murray, Yo Kitch. If you watch him play, it's kind of like poetry at times, right? They're just kind of, they're kind of feeling each other and they've got experience in that. I think LeBron fits into something like that all the time. I think there's a motor that he brings to a team when he can board the way he can and then be the break himself. He's on the rim as a defensive rebounder and then he's two dribbles burst out. You guys are flying up the court. I think that which unlocks some other players on Denver's team, if you will. And in the half court, you're going to be Yo Kitch Murray, LeBron and then everyone else is going to eat off of that. I like him for Denver. Does that, if he goes to Denver Howard, just hypothetically, we're having fun. If he goes to Denver, does that basically solve all of their problems in terms of like what they have to do to retool and all of their concerns around retooling at this point? Do you think there will be another move that they would have to do? Yeah, I mean, our friends Mark Simon, Jake Fisher have been reporting that, you know, Yo Kitch's hesitant once again to sign an extension and it's not necessarily an indication that Yo Kitch is upset and wants to leave, but just more of kind of like there's at least some part of that that's possibly kind of a, let me see what you guys are doing here. Like the nuggets do need some sort of kind of like reset, not a tear down, but like, and everything seems to be on the table right now, right? They're considering whether they move air and Gordon in a trade, even potentially Jamal Murray. Like they're considering absolutely everything other than, you know, Yokech himself, right? If we're in a scenario here where LeBron, again, and it seems like we're pretty close to it. And you guys remember, I brought this up months ago. If LeBron were willing to take whatever team has available, a mid-level exception, a taxpayer mid-level exception, the minimum, whatever, he can go wherever he wants. So I don't know if there's a sign in trade possibility here with Denver or any of these other teams, but if it's just whatever they have available in the exception, and LeBron wants to go there without them giving up anything. And you're keeping air and Gordon, and listen, it's been hard to keep air and Gordon healthy is a big problem. You're resigning Peyton Watson still, hopefully, presumably in this scenario. You're keeping Jamal Murray. That's a badass team. No, like health matters. But like LeBron and Yokech are both fucking playmaking geniuses. You take the two of them, plus Jamal Murray, score slash playmaker, some defense with Gordon, and Peyton Watson, like you're in business. Is that enough to knock out Oklahoma San Antonio? I don't know, but I don't know that I want to bet against them either. Yeah, how would they fit Roger, like between the San Antonio O.K.C. hierarchy in the Western Conference? Would it just be right planted at third? Yeah, I mean, yeah, look, look, they were a year ago, not this year, but they were right there with O.K.C. They were toe-to-toe. Nicola Yokech is a problem for anyone. Now he didn't have a great, I'm a great series against Minnesota, but he's still a problem. So like, yeah, if you added LeBron and they were able to stay healthy, and retain their pieces, yes, I do think they are right there. I'd probably put them to start in a tier below those two teams. But if they were playing well, you know, if they were playing well and look like they were hitting their stride and health was going to be factored in all year long, I'd give them as good a chance, you know? Like I real talk. It's going to be, again, like Howard just, I never, I'm not into having to count other people's money, that's not what I do. But I would say this, at this point, if I would like to see LeBron not worry about the money. Like if you're going to keep playing, now I'm not, you know, whatever makes you happy, bro, the happiest, whatever is important to you in terms of like winning or where you want to live, or whatever that dynamic is, chase that. Like that mid-level ain't doing shit for you. You know, you know what I'm saying? Like I don't mean to at this point. It's just real easy, anything. Yeah, it would just be that. It would just be that. Yeah, where would it be the most fun or where would I have the chance to win the most and maybe get another finals or whichever of those is the most important? I would really like it to be that for him. Like I wouldn't, it's a great fucking luxury. Like how many players get that at the end of their career? It's like, you know what, I don't need the ring, but if I can chase it, I will. I don't need the money, but if it's there, cool, I'm just going to go where it's going to be the most enjoyable and hopefully win a little bit, right? Like that's a phenomenal luxury for a guy at his stage. No doubt. Okay, no mistakes. He would help Denver. Absolutely. Let's keep it messy, man. Let's go to the San Antonio Spurs. Oh, man. How does that fit Roger? Let's fucking go. Wimbee and Braun right now. Jewish champagne ain't giving up that spot. I'm sorry. Yeah, you know what, you know what, you know what's weird about this? Cause I just said he would help every team. If I'm this person, no, I'm good. Yeah. Wow. Wow. You just told the goat to take a hike. Yeah. No, if I'm this person, I'm probably telling you I'm good. Oh, and only because could he help? Absolutely. But I just think there's so many people on a rapid ascension in terms of their development. Yeah. And it just got you, like right on the precipice of winning a chill. It'll be weirdly like, I don't want to stunt that. Yeah, I don't want to stunt that at all. But it was kind of Houstonish, but like, oh, de Houston. Like with real results. Yeah, like, no, it also with like real generational talent. Not like, you know, like great looking prospects. Yeah, that sounds crazy. But I'd probably, you know, I'd probably pass. Okay. Okay. It would be weird. Could you humor me though? Like, how I would look though? Like, come on, man. I wouldn't look. Um, yeah. I mean, how I don't know how it would look. I mean, look, I keep saying this over again. He can play anywhere, dude. Like, it's just, he can play anywhere. It's just what you're going to ask of him, you know, as a player, and how much of himself. And again, I think this factor's in, sorry, Howard, I think this factor's in a lot. And this is where I was watching with the Lakers, you know, as much as it's about the money of it all and feeling like you're undervalued there, it's asking to give up parts of yourself that you don't feel like you're completely gone yet to fit into certain situations that may not be appetizing for people. I don't mean to speak for him. But like, I've seen, that's a struggle sometimes. But that's the part that I was, and that's why I looked like I was about to talk, Roger, because like, I'm glad you're making this point because I just kind of wanted to note this part of it, which is at 41 and a half, um, I don't think LeBron is insisting on, on that old role at all. And I think one of the, the most, you know, notable things that happened this past season, more so even than when Luca first got there was that LeBron did find a way to just kind of integrate himself as essentially a third option, sometimes second option. And then when necessary could toggle into primary driver of the offense in the, in the role that we've always seen him for decades, he's capable of that, both I think intellectually and emotionally and, and certainly intellectually like he knows how to do that. I think he also knows his body well enough to know that I can't be old me at 82 games. So playing on a team where you had in this case, Stefan Castle, Dylan Harper, Deer and Fox, Wembee, and you, and it's not as much as asked of you, but, you know, you, you can maximize yourself as needed and he can gauge that better than anybody. I think it's fine. And it's the same thing as, as I thought in the warrior scenario or some of these other, other possibilities is that he will find a way to fit in and I, I don't think he's going to be leading with his ego at this stage of his career or with his usage rate. I just don't think he needs that. Yeah. All right. Let's blow Howard's brain off of this fucking head. Uh, great. You want to just work? Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's spare him for like 45 minutes. I would, I would, I would agree with most of what you said, Howard. I don't think he's going to be leading. I know. No, no, no, no. I don't think you're leading with your ego. I don't think he is at this point. I'm not, I'm not saying that. And, but I am saying that there's a fine line between, hey, come in here and chase this championship with us and have a palatable role for yourself. And hey, come chase this championship with us and kind of stay out the way. I don't, and I'm not suggesting that. No, I'm not saying that you are, but like, when I look at San Antonio, I guess it was the point that I was trying to make, which is like, hey, Wenby is Wenby. We all talked about Dylan Harper and what, what he did in a playoff as a rookie. The font castle, I see less of a role there, if that makes sense, like because all of those dudes are just bursting at the seams to like figure out exactly who they are on this championship level team that is already championship level. And you might be asking him to give up too much of himself in that sort of way. Or you're asking those guys who need the room to grow. Can't do that. Yeah, can't do that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, fair. Yeah. All right. All right. What are we doing? What are we even doing? What are we even? That's it. That's the question. That's yeah. Wow. I thought there was more set up coming there, Logan. No, no. It's funny because in 2010, LeBron dropped all these hints in that 2009, 10 season. He wore a Yankees cap I think at one point. He gave a quote about how, you know, summer 2010 is going to be a really big one for Nix fans. And he was doing all this cutesy stuff, acting as if there were a lot of people who thought it was a, it was a done deal. They thought he was, it was a lock to New York and they were stunned when it ended up being Miami. They thought it was New York. And if it wasn't New York, it's because he was staying in Cleveland. Well, you trying to say the Nix fans don't want him. That's what you building up to. That's what you say. Right? No, I'm just slow. You get that, brother. What you trying to say? No, all right. Don't let me put words in your mouth. No, no. No. What I'm saying is it's kind of poetic and funny just at this stage to consider after spurning them all those years ago when he was in his prime to come back at age 41 and a half. Y'all, what's up? Hey, remember me. I'm here. Remember me. I have a Yankees cap a couple of times. Remember me? You want to be really badly like 16 freaking years ago. Well, we got a title and now you try to act brand new. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. Like, listen, if LeBron were to position where he still needed the rings, if he was if he were ring lists, then hopping on board with the defending champs might make some sense, although it would still be kind of distasteful for a player of his caliber. But at this stage, like, he's got his rings. He doesn't need a ring chase and joining the actual defending champs would be weird. Now he does have ties, man, like Mike Brown coached him. it's upon a time in Cleveland. Worldwide West in the front office. - Yep. - Even more, even stronger tie there. All kinds of CAA ties and stuff from. - Josh Hart, former teammate, you know? - You know, so like, no, but no. - Could it fit on the court though, Roger? Could it fit on court at least? You could fit anywhere, but could, like how would it be weird, a weird fit? Do they have to get adjusted to him? - Yeah, I don't see, I mean, is he coming off the bench? - Probably, I guess so. - No. - I guess we have to. - No, you can't do that. - No, no, no. - You're bringing Josh Hart. - Josh Hart, Josh Hart. - Josh Hart's going to the bench. - Josh Hart going to the bench. Yeah, I mean, I wanted to say that to be funny either, but like that you just want a championship. Like that's a hard, again, you're gonna ask me, does it work? Look, yeah, man, you plug LeBron in, you run for, you know, virtually six, eight and downs, and then Carl Anthony Towns or Mitchell Robinson anyway. So yeah, it could work plugging him into that is, yes, it could work. I just, you're the nicks as much as anybody to me are built as this like real delicate chemistry project. And they got the recipe exactly right, you know what I mean? And you, I don't touch that. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like I just don't think you, you mess with that. Interestingly, I hadn't, I hadn't really heard it, but like I was just thinking, in a weird way, you know, you said like you can't, you can't go to the mix. They just wanted the championship. It's gonna be hard to go to the spurs. Like they just narrative wise, championship wise. You can't go to the spurs. Could you go to, okay, see? You could, hey, listen, narrative wise. LeBron has blown all the narratives out of the water with leaving the Lakers at this point. He could, he's gravy, but yeah, he should. No, but I mean, but I mean, it's like, like even as a story, they had won a championship and have fallen off the pace slightly. And, you know, it wouldn't be the same narrative. Oh, he just joined, okay, see? It'd be like, oh, he went to, okay, see? And got him back to the top of that. Yo, LeBron and Oklahoma City would be like bigfoot, bro. Every time he gets out of his house, he would attract a crowd. He'll be crazy. He'll be crazy, he'll be nuts. How, how long does it take to go around their downtown now? How are, you've been there since? No, you do. It's like, like I, I think the last time we did this, I said that their downtown was like three blocks long and I got like very detailed reply for the marks. Oh, absolutely. Anyways. I got the biggest with a hashtag will actually have all time. I got one more, I got one more team before we actually get serious and I have serious, like the serious teams. The Minnesota Temporals Roger Bell, because we haven't gotten your take on Lamello going there. How would he fit? Yeah, Minnesota. What happened to you? You were so fun, Lamello, Converse. I needed your capacity. Well, you guys killing Lamello, you guys bashing Lamello? I had to play, I had to play the part of Roger Bell last week with our local Lamello defender. Sort of our, Logan is confirming. He says not it. Sort of, I had to be devil's advocate. I had to like, I think it's not going to work at all. I think it's going to be go terrible. I think it's going to be awesome to watch. I'm going to, I'm going to make every-- LeBron will fix Lamello. LeBron will fix Lamello. But LeBron will fix the-- Let's hubris, Roger. Let me, let me, first of all, let's do this. Let me allow me to retroactively defend Lamello. Yeah, I mean, does every player has their flaws? He has his flaws, right? I have always said, as it relates to Lamello, we must acknowledge that, but we must acknowledge that he does shit with the basketball that very few people on the planet. And even in a league full of freaks with the basketball, can do with the basketball. So there's real talent oozing from those pores. There is a level of dysfunction that he was brought into the league. Recently, Charlotte has started to get it together. Yeah. Prior to recently, why are we giving Charlotte this level of grace that would absolve them of playing any part in Lamello's dysfunction that he was dropped into as a young player? And I'm only saying that because I've seen players in really tough spots to be like the best version of themselves, not be the best version of themselves. I've seen that same player when taken out and extracted from that situation and put in something really stable with real guidelines and expectations and guardrails and accountability be a completely different version of themselves. And I'm not saying that he is definitely going to do that, but I'm saying there's a possibility that he can. And I do think you have to acknowledge what he was dropped into as a baby in Charlotte for at least playing some part in who he was as a player as it relates to like whether you're winning games and so on and so forth. LeBron, to the point that Howard made, is automatic organizational culture. It's like LeBron is like just ad water. Here you go, culture. So if you're telling me you're going to a place with a young aunt who's still developing his leadership chops and a LeBron who, you know, super talented, but clearly needs some guidance and some structure around him. And you said, and a driver who could get, you could get LeBron and you throw a driver in there. You get LeBron and there make a lot of tunnels in Minnesota. Just live downtown. You just walk away. I just said, yo, just live across the street. Do a hot, do it. What are those tunnels that go to the arena, bro? You're so waste. Walk through the highways, yeah. But no, I mean, like, I'm not even talking about on the court. I'm talking about what that would mean to a young duo like those two who both have real, real gifts, you know. I also think, you know, again, we talked about San Antonio. Like San Antonio's got Wembee, but after Wembee, what's the next biggest thing that they were running out there in playoff games? - We're trying, hopefully he's doing Harper next year, right? Like that's the next-- - Yeah, no, no. But I mean, just in terms of pure size when we're talking about-- - Oh, right, no, no. - Minnesota, Minnesota got, yeah, but he wasn't, we weren't playing with Wembee. - Right, right. - He was coming in for Wembee. So they're both of those teams in the finals were basically playing for guards. - Yep. - And a big. So in that world, yeah, you could incorporate LeBron. You could bring your culture. He's gonna bring you some stability. He actually would add value like on the court. When you got the Somu, you still got big fella. - Where'd he go there? - Yeah, like, yes, yes. But if you told me he wasn't going to have the type of role on the court, like let's say it was a similar situation to San Antonio on court, which it's not. But let's say those are apples to apples in terms of what you're gonna ask him to do. He's way more valuable in Minnesota, just because of the culture that needs to be kind of in place and would be helpful to some of that young stardom that they have. - That would, that I would want it. That's my lead pass team if he goes to Minnesota. - That'd be awesome. - I will say this though, and this is just a little sidebar. Having, I watch him, I'm a fan, everybody else. I remember when I got the golf bug and it was something that I did all the time. And you just couldn't wait after you left and you worked on your chip and your puttin' after the round and then you couldn't wait to be back out there tomorrow. - Yeah. - That's gonna be interesting to see how he navigates that. A couple of these places, you're only golfing on road trips and he seems to really have a golf bug right now. It sounds crazy. But when you get it, no, it sounds crazy. But when basketball players get that golf bug like it is, it's exciting to be home. - It's exciting to be home. - It just be fun to see a guy of his caliber pick miniapolis, right? It doesn't happen, right? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - It would be cool. - Speaking of a place with a lot of golf courses, this Roger knows best. - Miami. - Now, what do you think of it? - Let's get serious. The Miami Heat fit, Roger. - So I was on the side of going back to Cleveland. I've been on that forever. You go back and listen to a pot. I said it really early. I thought he should go back to Cleveland. Having given it some thought, a lot of that had, well, first of all, obviously, Janus wasn't in Miami, right? But I like the sentimentality of it. I like the swan song of it all. I kind of like the career arc. There's a part of me that thinks it may be too much. There's a part of me that thinks emotionally. Just it may be too much for him, for the team. Like that's a, unless you live there and saw LeBron there in Cleveland, it's hard to articulate just how electrifying that city is when they're good in LeBron was part of it. - You're talking about Miami. - No, I'm talking about Cleveland right now. And so I'm saying, now as it relates to Miami, it might be my favorite destination. Like I like Miami. Put it in with Janus and Bam, you know, you didn't have a kind of a guy with the ball that's making plays out there on the perimeter and kind of facilitating in that way. He's going to do that. You still have work to do on a roster, but it's probably my favorite destination for him. And you are big and you are physical and you're just going to basically be the antithesis of what I was talking about with San Antonio and the Nix. You're going to be like maybe the Rockets or okay, so we're big. - Yeah, you better get big, my phone, because we're big. - Yeah, and they got a shot. They would have a-- shot in the Eastern Conference. Whereas if you talk about Golden State, they probably wouldn't. Another team would have a shot at Howard Thoughts on Miami, I apologize. No, I think it would be really cool. That's the thing. I'm going to think in terms of storylines as much as I'm going to think in terms of basketball, although I do want to see him on a relevant team, right? And Cleveland, Miami, Golden State, I think, all check all those boxes, right? Fun story, homecomings in two of those places. And I think all three of them are more than relevant if LeBron's there and maybe even without LeBron, but especially with him. So I like, yeah, LeBron, Janice, BAM, the defense, the playmaking, the downhill attack. Wiggins. Wiggins is in there. Can you find a couple of shooters? They just signed Tim Hardaway Jr. or came to terms with him today. So like, you need a few more of those. And they're well coached. Very well coached. So like, I think it'd be really cool, but I do think like if you're going to do a homecoming back to Cleveland to like book end the career has a lot more resonance than back to Miami. Like it just doesn't feel the same, right? But also it's like one last wash to run. No, you know what I mean? You know one one for the Gipper, right? Just one last about to just go have a have a sick one in Miami for eight months. It would it would it be cool. I think it's I think it's more interesting for him to go back to Cleveland. I'll leave you think that like Roger. I would agree with that. No, I would agree with that. I would agree with that 100%. Like look, Cleveland storyline is not, I mean, that's fantastic. I I and maybe I'm thinking too deep into it. It is just, I mean, it's expected. Like when I was in the best way possible. Like it is the city is on fire. If they're good and LeBron is a part of that. And what you can't quantify is, you know, he hasn't at least a different kind of town. It doesn't revolve around the the lakers like that. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't revolve around any real sports team in that way. When when when the calves are playing and they're playing well. I mean, it's what the city is about that day. You know, as I remember it when I was living there and he's what 10 years older than he was the last time he was there. You just like, there's an emotional dream kind of that that that that we don't account for his fans that is that is on players at times and players learn how to manage it. They don't even think about it. It's just, it's just, you know, par for the course, right? You learn how to like manage your battery in that way. But there's part of me, if I am thinking a little bit about it too much, is wondering if like, yo, 30, 40, 50 games into that. If you're like, yo, this is a lot. People are pulling at me in every which way like the city. I don't know. I don't know. But I would agree with you Howard. Like, that's a phenomenal story, right? Like Cleveland chapter. We're going to end the book. Also he's he's already reconciled with them, right? He came home like they hated him when he left. They embraced him when he returned. He won them a championship and all is forgiven forever. And when he leaves the second time for LA, they're like, cool man, that's been paid. We love you. We're going to cheer for you every time you come back. I don't think it's quite the same in Miami. Like, you won a couple championships. You left after four years. You spurned Pat Riley, the godfather, how dare you. And you can come back and they'll they'll cheer. It'll be fine. But it's just not the same as as Cleveland because the ties aren't as deep because he didn't already have the reconciliation and all the debt paying of winning a championship after the after the spurning. Like, it's just different. Yo, this true. You don't, I mean, you're in Miami. Would they welcome him back with open arms right? Oh, bro. My our fans are, listen, our our fans, if you're not good, they're not there. As soon as you're good, they're all there. So I mean, the sentimentality of it all, um, you know, they're not going to have the attachment that the general Cleveland area has to LeBron. He's not a he's not a hometown like kid, but if he's running around in a heat jersey and they're good, all's forgiven. So let's talk about real quick, the fit for Cleveland versus Miami for him. No, let's talk about the encore fit, though, quickly. Like, how does it compare and compress for him? How would it be? Um, you know, there's more, I think there's, it's more of a ready made roster in Cleveland. Like, yeah, I, it's easier to see him in Cleveland and what it would look like in Cleveland because you just don't know what Miami is going to look like at this point. Um, yeah, I like him. I look, I like him in Cleveland. That's why I said it early. I like, I like him in Cleveland with Donovan and, and James Hardin, you can move him around. You can, you can really move him all around the floor and do different things with him there that would unlock different people. Um, there's, there's room in Miami. Yeah, there's room, too, but I don't even know how you want to play. Like, I don't even know what they're going to look like because of a roster. Um, so that's that I'm sorry, dude, that's probably not good potting. I don't know what they're going to look like. I can see him and tell you how I think he might fit in Cleveland. And that would be you put him in pick and roll a lot probably with James Hardin at times. If you were taking one of those other bigs off the floor, uh, you'd also have him with the ball in his hands and pick and roll. He's another guy that would ignite break. Like, there are a lot of things with with that you could do with him in Cleveland, moving him around the chess board. Not that you couldn't in Miami, but they don't have the roster. So I don't know what that's going to look like. Yeah. I'll just say this as an end of all the teams that are serious. I think the warriors in terms of like pre retirement would be amazing for him. I don't think that they're going to necessarily get to the heights that he would get in the Eastern Conference. But in terms of like bives golf courses, we have very nice golf courses in the Bay Area, Roger. I'm not sure if a lot, a lot, right? San Francisco down to Silicon Valley, all in the East Bay. It's really nice. Um, you know, uh, the good food, good all of that stuff, right? Like he really just have like a real send off, a real Bay Area send off, right? But I don't think they will ultimately have a ceiling. I think Cleveland and Miami, if you want to like win and like actually be relevant, come May and June. I think those are those are the choices. You know, you guys are the experts, but I think that that for me, I think that that's where we're headed. Um, where we get out of here. Um, just in pure NBA fashion and pure clipper fashion. Um, we're going to give them 10 minutes right after we talk about the Lakers and what their moves are. Um, Kawaii Leonard has been traded to the Toronto Raptors. He is back to the six. Um, for Brandon Agram, Grady Dick, two umper protected picks, one pick swap, two second round picks. Basically the Raptors day backslided and the clippers got picks in return. What are the thoughts on the on the, um, on the transaction? I mean, not quite the same like, uh, sentimental like, you know, swoon of a LeBron back to Cleveland. Um, with all due respect to Toronto, a city I love. But and I know dude brought them a championship, but dude was there for one season, like not even a full 12 months. But hey, man, with that's Toronto, though, like they did win a title before that's how that's how you become a legend. He means absolutely the world to them. By the way, shout out to whoever, uh, on our ringer social channels, posted the thing about, uh, quick Photoshop of Kawaii was I think the caption in a Toronto uniform. That was probably Jomi. Probably Jomi. Shout out Jomi. That was great. Um, but no, like it, it's, he means a lot to them, but based on like, you know, a one season cycle from seven years ago, that he's now putting up the kind of numbers and playing at a level that rivals his time back then unimprobably after all the injuries after all the games missed is incredible. And he's joining a team with Scotty Barnes and a bunch of other very talented young dudes, where in an Eastern conference, like we, we, we have to be careful here. We got through an entire season of saying the Eastern conferences wide open. And this team is the favorite. That team is the favorite Detroit's got the best record Boston without Tatum. Oh, Boston with Tatum. All this other stuff started not, not, not trying to trigger your Roger with the Tatum stuff. Um, but like we, we don't, we don't want to say the Toronto Raptors are like one Kauai away from unseating the defending champion NYX. That's a little disrespectful. But I do think the margins are, are thin in the East. They were. That's why we said it was wide open in the first place. And, you know, Kauai with an up and coming Raptors team. If Kauai stays healthy, I don't want to deal with them. So yeah, I'm, I'm not dismissive of that at all. And again, it's, it's, we're in the last hours of June 30th year, the last hours of June. There's a lot of summer to go. Who knows what other moves can make come behind this with Toronto, because clearly, this isn't all in move. This is a short term. Yeah, we're going to extend in probably a couple of years because we have to. But you don't know how much more of Kauai you're going to get, but you're getting the final stage of his career. And just as we talk about with LeBron or Steph or KD, these are guys who are still when they're playing among the best in the NBA. Kauai is right there too. And he's, he's going to be surrounded by some really great young talent that can carry a lot of the load. And like, this is fascinating, man. Like, this is one, like, it's, I'm not saying we never saw it coming. There was always like a little bit of that kind of speculation, but this is not when you expected, especially when it was such a big deal for him to decide to spurn them. He's the first finals and only finals MVP in history to win a championship. And then say, I'm done. I'm going - I'm out. - I'm out. - Yeah. - Yeah. It's been real man. I mean it's the most kawaii move ever. I will say this so just to add to your point about that one year though. You had to be there for that Toronto Raptors championship run to understand how important that was and to understand why Toronto was welcoming him back with open arms. It was a little electric. Toronto I don't think he's ever been the same since then. It was one of the greatest moments of my life. It was so much fun. It was it was it was just it was a sight to behold. Now on the basketball court, Roger, where does this put the Raptors right now? I don't I don't I would just agree with Howard. I mean I think over the course of the last few years, you know, the the parody kind of like and the the inability for for the teams that we think are going to have this diagnostic run for the the inability for them to keep that going. You know, all lends itself to like look if you add kawaii to a group that was already really good. They're young at this stage in his career. All the points Howard just made. I think you're in the mix. I don't know that I have you, you know, as a top three team, but all you want to do now in the NBA is start the year saying I'm in the mix. And over the last few years, I think it's it's it's born out. Like if you're in you're in the mix, you and you got a punchers chance anybody could come out of that. And that's where they are. You know, I and and so I don't I don't I don't know that I could put it better than Howard did. Yeah. One last thing, man, and this is just something that I've been thinking about. This Jalen Duren situation in Detroit has me baffled, right? I don't know if it's fumbling the bag necessarily or I know it's just getting leverage to go with the pistons, but like as a former player, Roger and then back I want to hear your opinion like the fact that this is taking it's so hard to get done at this point, this contract. Is that going to have any ramifications? Because I think the pistons have all the leverage in this in this deal. He's still stuck to the Duren is supposed to discuss signing traits and areas with the Lakers in this in the in the Kings. Um, but if he does eventually gets back to Detroit, what is the ramifications of this in that locker room and just how he feels after the contract dispute like this? Um, yeah, I don't know that they're the same as like Jalen Brown when you're being dangled. Um, he's he's restricted, right? Yeah. That's a weird place to be, man. Like I don't do you love it? No. Are there some residual feelings about it? Probably. Um, but I think they're easier to get over because that's, you know, I don't, I don't still probably feels disrespectful to someone that that considers themselves like part of your fabric and thinks that they've done a lot for you, but, um, contractually you're in a weird place there. So I don't think that there's a much of a hangover from that. So it's clear there's a ton of interest for him out there. And it's I'm sure the pistons anticipated that I think the difficulty here as just from a strategic point of view from a front office trying to figure out, um, what the state of the game is. If somebody out there's going to max him out or even just go to wherever the threshold is that the pistons are uncomfortable. And I think they've already signaled we're going to match any offer. And that's the right thing, right? He's your guy. You drafted him. You developed him. Um, yeah, struggled in the playoffs, but he's, he's, had a incredible trajectory. You, you, we always say this and you hate to talk about players as assets, but you, you protect the asset. You keep the asset. If you don't think he's worth that, you figured out later. You, you, you trade him later. If that's what it takes, but you don't let him walk for nothing. You have to match. But by letting the market set his price, you then risk one paying him an amount you didn't want to, um, and two, having him possibly be a little bit hurt about the whole thing up. He'll, I'm sure he'll get over it. It'll be fine. And shit, he may live up to that contract. You may be probably happy to have him at that number. But you kind of need to know through your own intel ahead of time is somebody else out there going to max him because if we think someone's going to max him and we're just going to match it anyway, well, then we should just go out and make that the first offer to him right out the gate so that we don't have to go through all these backenations and hurt feelings. Um, that's some second guessing backseat bullshit by me, but I, I do think that's part of what, you know, your job is in the front office. You're, you need to anticipate this so that you're not in this position and then ending up paying him that anyway. Sure. All right. Sounds good. Uh, one thing that I just saw Butler is going to be hosting the NBA Cup championship game. I'm more Vegas. Not Jimmy Butler. Not Jimmy Butler. Uh, it's going to be at the ankle field house in Indianapolis, Indiana. We're in a cool place to play. Yeah. It was ever been there. You played there. It's good. Yeah. I played there a college. It's a cool place to play. I don't know. I think it's a different NBA Cup game, but it's a cool place. Does it make any sense for an NBA game at all? What's like what's the capacity there? Yeah. Yeah, probably. Yeah. They were just. Yeah. I don't haven't seen the capacity. The NBA. The NBA has overdosed on Vegas. So I'm happy to see them trying something else. Who hasn't, right? Yeah. I don't know, I don't know about this, this whole like moving, you know, you know, whatever, traveling circus. Now that the NBA cup's going to be going to college, whatever. I, we got through this whole bottom when I'm going to talk about the JAMA rant trade. What a bummer. I was just ready to blast away. Oh, go ahead. Let's go ahead. No, go, go, go, go, go. I hate this trade. I hate this trade. I hate it on every level. I hate it for Memphis because they finally had to cut ties with the guy who was the face of their franchise and excited their fan base. It was electric. It was awesome. Was possibly the future of the league. I hate that it comes to this, even though it had to come to this. I hate the return they got, even though we all knew they weren't going to get shit for a return. I hate it much, much more for Portland because no, they didn't give up anything to get him. That's not the point people. They gave up nothing to get him. But now you're bringing in JAMA rant to a back court that already has Dame Lillard coming back off his Achilles and is a franchise legend drew holiday. Oh, Scoot Henderson top three overall pick who is supposed to be your point guard of the future. All these guys in the ball in their hands. And oh, by the way, Danny Abdea just had a breakthrough season as your primary ball handler playmaker score. And now all these guys are supposed to be sharing the ball. By the way, John isn't what he was. John may never be that guy again. He's taken a beating. He doesn't finish at the rim as well as he used to. He can't shoot He can't defend. What are you doing Portland Trailblazers? That's it. I'm done. Roger can go go go. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey 18 and older and present in D.C. Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem called 1-800-Gambler or 1-800-Myreset call 1-888-789-77777 where visit ccpg.org/chat and Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org and Maryland hope is here visit gamblinghelp ma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24-7 support and Massachusetts or call 1-877 hope and why or text hope and why in New York for Louisiana call 1-877-707-867