Learning in Today's World

Learning into Days World. Welchen Impact haben die gesellschaftlichen und technologischen Veränderungen auf das Lernen und die Beziehungsgestaltung im Unterricht? Jetzt im Räussonanzraumbildung ein Podcast der Pärzüich. Ein Gespräch auf Englisch mit John Hetty und Janet Clinton. Und Ration will Tod weininger. Willkommen zu einem neuen Einführungs- und Podcast-Räussonanzraumbildung von der Zürich-Universität des E-Education-Teachers. Die Titel des Nachrichts ist, "Learning in today's World" in ein increasingly digitaler Performance-oriented und fast-paced Environment. Ich bin sehr glücklich, dass ich wirklich zwei internationalen Gäste an unsere Studie die "Educational Research" John Hetty und Janet Clinton. John Hetty, bei der über 2000 Metastattung über 400 Fakten erhielt, hat die Influenzlearningsabstand. John Hetty ist ein Professor der Education und eine educational Researcher bei der Universität Melburn. Er hat eine Weltwahl der Läuse des Impactes auf Effektive-Teaching, die Rolle des E-Educers und die Importance des Feedback. Janet Clinton ist ein Professor bei der Universität Melburn und leite die Teacher-Effektivität des Research-Hubs. Er hat eine Weltwahl der International-Evaluation-Projekt und eine Erwahl der Education und die Arbeit des E-Education-Teachers und die Arbeit des Education-Teachers und die Arbeit des Education-Teachers und die Arbeit des Education-Teachers und die Arbeit des Education-Teachers threads funktlich tout von diesem Helms wohnt es euch zwischen eine Więarische Donc wir haben schon viel später gospels 吗? 85 Ich bin verdammte, da waren wären richtig gut, weil sie sehr gutλά stairs waren! Wenn du nicht mehr als ich, in der Klasse zu verholfen, ich konnte nicht mehr die Wurzeln, die die Wurzeln waren, die sie interactieren, die die Wurzeln zusammenarbeiten, die sie zusammenarbeiten, die sie sich gut zusammenarbeiten, war sehr sehr impräsifft. Und der 2. Schurz, der in einem Wolfgang Barrel war in der Laufwurz, der war in Spotserland, und der Boll der Lange war, wenn du die Wurzeln über die Wurzeln waren, als wir wir waren. Und als wir in der meisten places waren, waren wir als Menschen, die uns als Menschen zu lernen haben. Und das war einfach eine Pleasure zu hören. Und natürlich, die uns auch die Wurzeln und die Begründung, die die Begründung zu lernen haben, ist eine Möglichkeit. Aber wir haben viel zu lernen, dass die Welt über die educationalen Education auf der High School Level ist, sehr impräsifft. Wir haben mit dem Stamm mit dem Dramatik. Ich habe noch einmal über die Wurzeln, die du noch eine Schreien-System haben, die ich nicht mehr kann, wie du sie so viel geworfen hast, zu tun. bei haben die serimten conditioner-Karter die Pulme in Estado flankiert. Die wollen natürlich sagen, dass dielehem Langen für Konsisten in Diana als der Jahre clicksamper. Das cabinden wurde viel intersections aus estimationing, 為什麼 kommt dieser Fen�as GU greatest, am anderen man, incapablegula, seine Bürger obligations Christ nicht, els anhand現end logischer allegiance ist. Ich bin hier in Switzerland. Ich bin sehr gut, dass die Karriere in der Klasse zu den Teetern stehen. Es ist ein eigenes Moment, ein eigenes Love. In unseremworld-Changing-Wall, wo es zu Hause und zu Hause zu finden, und die Teetern sind, ihre Karriere in der Provision zu gehen, viel, viel later. In der Australian sind es schon 33-34, wenn sie erst mal in der Klasse starten. Wir in der Klasse, wenn wir nicht eine gute Karriere-Karter stehen, für die Teetern zu stehen in der Klasse und auch zu haben die Leadership. So, overall, wir haben viel zu Hause geladen, aber wir werden viel mehr zu lernen. Ja, sehr gut, sehr gut. Es ist sehr gut, zu lernen. Was ist denn zu dir, Janet? Ich habe schon so viele Evaluations, viele andere Dinge gemacht. Also auch über die Welt, was ist denn dein Überblick? Ich denke, wenn ich das nicht über die Menschen starten, denn John schon schon über die Klasse, die wir sehen, das eine der mich strecken, war nicht einfach zu Hause, aber zu Hause zu Hause. Diese Menschen waren in der Klasse. Und eine der Dinge, die sehr interessant waren, ist, sie waren eigentlich auch wieder über die Arbeit, die sie machen. Und die Leute, die auf der anderen Seite, waren sehr gut. Like John, ich bin nicht der Favor der Traking-System oder der Levels, und wir haben einige gute Diskussionen. Aber was interessant ist, in einem Klasse, die Menschen waren, die die, wo sie waren. Und wirklich komfort, zu sagen, ich kann nicht machen, ich muss hierher gehen, bevor ich hier hier gehen. Das war sehr gut, die Adults, das war ein Problem mit dem. Es war almost eine Evaluative, die sich in der Klasse zu denken und das war wirklich sehr schön. Die Leute waren zwei Dinge, die sehr komfort sind, mit der Menschen, die einfach einfach wie wir. Das war sehr gut. Ich war sehr leid, dass die Frage der Diskussion, und ich denke, das ist das eine ganze Zeit, die die Diskussion von den Leuten, die die Leute gehen. In vielen OECD-Kunstern sind es professional-Standards, die die Leute, und ich denke, sie sind sehr schön. In der Australian-Kontexung haben wir sie, so dass sie sie in eine Korea-Progression erhoben haben. Es gab keine Diskussion über die Standards, sie werden in eine Korea-Progression erhoben. Das tells mir, dass die Entwicklung der Korea-Professionale Identität und der Partei, die sie überdenken, ist das schwierig. Es gab ein anderes Thema, das mich schockt, und das war heute. Wir waren die Leute, die die Leute sind. Und deshalb haben wir ein bisschen von dem Werk, die die Leute sind. Wir haben uns im Jahr 20 Jahre, die für mich nicht so lange gehen. Es gab keine Konzept der Ansatzung in einer Skol. Und so die Klasse-Sroom hat sich natürlich auch viel Autonomis. Und ich war, wie? Wie war das? Und was hat das gemacht? Und dann natürlich eine nächste Frage, was so was nichts anderes gemacht habe. Und niemand konnte mir sagen, was das gemacht hat. Denn in all den Mitarbeitern, die Leute sind kritisch. Eine Innovation, eine Chance, die sie in bringen, hat wirklich einen sehr großen Menschen. Wir haben keine Angst. So war es eine surprise, dass wir nicht so eine historische look haben. Und dann eine Evaluation der Menschen, keine Menschen zu sehen. Was hat das gemacht? Wir haben eine sehr typische Swiss Element. Die Schools, die nur die Schools von Professionals haben, nicht so lange Zeit zu kommen. Absolut. Vielen Dank für diese Impressions-Geräte. Du hast gesagt, dass du ein Bus-Word oder du hast gemacht, John und John, auch Autonomie von Learners, Autonomie von Teachers und Atmosphäre und Kultur. Und du auch das auch in all den Arbeitern, John. Du hast die Evaluation von Klassor-Klimaten und Atmosphäre und die Ausfläche von making decisions, um sich zu machen, um sich zu machen, um sich zu entscheiden, wo du sie willst, wo du sie willst starten. Und so, kannst du vielleicht ein bisschen etwas mehr über die Klassor-Klimaten ein bisschen übernehmen? Ist das so ein sehr wichtiges Faktor? Willst du dich? Ich habe sehr früh die Zeit für die Konzepte von Autonomie. Ich denke, mein Airline-Parler hat Autonomie zu tun, um sie zu tun. Ich denke, mein Plamme hat Autonomie zu tun, um sie zu tun. Ich will, um etwas mehr zu sprechen, um die Sponsibilities zu tun. Und ich denke, das ist richtig interessant, um die Nachwärtszeit zu verändern. Das Thema, was ich dir dazu sagen muss, ist, dass die Konzepte mit den Kategen zusammenarbeiten, um sich in die Frage zu denken, um uns zu prüfen. guerra eine Zahl oder duplicate Ert桟 zuyttelten. T.</b> >> >> >> Oh my gosh, it's great. And what was the best thing about the day? Lunchtime, really good. And then after the bubble started to slow down, I noticed the car went very, very quiet. And I said, Emma, what are you thinking? And she said, I hate school. I said, tell me more. She said, I can't read. And I said, being smarter than the average five-year-old, but Emma, if you could read, there's no point going to school. Oh, she says. But being smarter than the average grandad, she said, does that mean when I learn to read, I don't have to go back? She learned on day one to compare herself and because she couldn't do something, she was a failure. And that is absolutely the opposite of the climate we need. And so when we talk about those relationships, we've got to remember the why, the why. No kid comes to school and any school in Switzerland to learn that which they know. And therein lies the problem with student choice. When we ask students to make choice, they choose that which they can already do. And the novice doesn't know what they don't know. They don't know what they don't know. That's why we have teachers. That's why I argue it's the teachers, not the student, not the AI that has to choose the success criteria. What does it mean to be successful? What is the quality of being successful? And their job is to work with the students. So we use the metaphor that our job is to teach students to drive their learning. And the same way you drive a car, the skills, you're going to pay a count of the environment. There's different speeds, there's different on-ramps, there's different exits. And the teacher's job is to set the destination and help the student, no matter which direction they take, to get there. And there is a time when you teach a child to drive where you get out of the car and let them. Now if that's autonomy, I'm with it. But autonomy is often interpreted as student choice. Leave the kid to work by themselves. It's like personalization and individualization. The concept's right. But what we do is we say, the child's going to work alone. No, they have to learn to work with others. They have to learn to seek help. So this is where that classroom climate is very powerful. It's very easy to measure. It's very easy to see. And it's without it, it's very tough to have progress to achievement. Thank you very much. Now Janet, you also investigated into this environmental factors of classroom practice. Can you tell us a little bit more about specific good practice measures for an environment as John has described or for an effective, also, in view of the teachers' perspective? I think I have to go back to John started with the notion of autonomy. And if you think about autonomy, people think it means you can do whatever you like. Well, one of the things that's really important in terms of teacher practice is that it do feel that they have some autonomy in their space. There's been several evaluations that have looked at autonomy. And if you just go, you can do what you want. It does not work, which is where I think John is sort of going. But you wouldn't want to take that notion that the practice of you have autonomy with guardrails that are set by the standards that we have by a curriculum, by appropriate behavior, et cetera. So I think that's an important one. And again, if you're going to think about how would you know whether your teacher is just in control, but in control has a real understanding of their environment and is making moves to adapt their lessons as they go, that's really critical to see that happening. And for me, that's an element of autonomy. You're comfortable enough to say, this is what this environment needs. So you have, and again, the notion of belonging, the notion of adaptation, quality delivery, all of those things are really important. When, if we think about the measures notion, what do we do? Currently, you'll see leadership going in through classrooms, doing their walkthroughs. There are systematic measures that you can look at environment, things like class, which has been around for many years. Technology is allowing us to see how teachers are teaching. So different ways of getting different ways. So if you think about the school community, you're going to have principals, you're going to have parents, you're going to have other teachers coming in the room, you're going to have standard measures. And what they're really focusing on is what are the students saying in a standard classroom, a teacher can use a simple exit ticket to see what the kids are feeling and thinking. So there's many ways I would probably argue that all of those things, teachers need to be comfortable with. You want to invite people in. Principal, what am I doing? How can I make it better? Feedback from parents, feedback from colleagues that whole collective efficacy, most critical thing. Understanding what the students feeling, thinking, is critical. And that's embedded in what you're doing. And it's standard, if they don't do it, and not asking the students, shouldn't be in the classroom at all. We have an app that we've been using. And there's many out there where the teacher stops the class at any particular point and says to the students, go on the app, identify how you're feeling right now. And we have many hundreds of thousands have done it around the world. The dominant feeling throughout the world without shadow of doubt is boredom. And boredom is the absence of challenge. And the good news is when you show the teachers the result, they fix it. The problem with that often don't see it. And kids learn very quickly by 8/7 or 8. How to look, engage, when nothing's happening. And so I think this is where you know, measures some of, we have now, all these apps we have, really can help teachers understand how kids are feeling and thinking of what that culture was like through their eyes. Maybe also improve their own competence of self-reflection and of adaptability. The critical thing here in all of these is I'm going to make a gross generalisation and say 50% of our teachers in Australia, in Switzerland, in the UK, in the US, you name it, don't like those apps. Do not want people in their classroom and certainly don't want anybody watching them. And we, as John has said, we, for about seven years, used a visible classroom app. And the whole point was the teachers would record, not film, but would record what they were saying and allow the students to see their words on an iPad. Those teachers that loved to engage in partnership, collaboration, love that the kids could see what they were saying could use it in many ways. Those teachers that were closed, not interested in feedback, hated the app. We had teachers that would say, "I'm not starting it until the students are settled." Because nobody wants to hear or see me telling Simon over there to sit down. And I was bemused by those kind of comments. Because what kind of environment are you doing if that's that kind of teaching? So there's an issue with that kind of feedback evaluation. There's also a question of mindset of teachers. No, I mean, we do have the engaged teachers who like apps like this. Teachers who would voluntarily come to the in-service training courses here at our university, who would be open for any kind of new or interesting course or module, but we also have the other part. Teachers who are very skeptical, who doubt things, who are reluctant to try out things. Now, how do we bring these teachers on board? This is our very good crucial question. And I don't know if you have any advice on this or how you do this in Australia. Well, firstly, it was only about two years ago for a reason that I was asked to prepare something on teacher's self-concept. And what's stunned me is basically no research ever. And so it's coming to your point. And so we've worked at lots of different ways of looking at teacher's self-concept. And some teachers are approvers. They'll do anything they can to improve. Simon, maintain us. I've been doing it for 10 years. I've got my system. It works for me. Everything will fit in. I don't need all this other stuff coming in. It's just extraneous. I'm not going to go to professional learning because you're going to change me. I don't need to change. It's OK. Now, I'm not saying either is good or bad, but it is getting to your point. Is that we do have a profession that we have too many that are reluctant to see improvement. On the other hand, we do have a profession which is very good at denying its expertise. And when you give an example of a child making remarkable progress, the teacher often says, or the kid did it, or the parent did it, or the resources did it, or the time-day of it, did it. Don't it's them? Then when you say it's not working so well, they can get very defensive on it. So we have to open that up. I like the medical notion of the second opinion. We need that in education. Mucks out our teachers. I've lost your question. How we bring them on board, the skeptical ones. The logic that we promote is a gender station of evaluative thinking as we want and prove us in our school profession. And our argument is that Firstly, I think every single teacher who ever came into education came in for one reason to have an impact on kids. So let's remind them on that. And then the second is, if you look at all the learning theories, particularly the gaming learning theories, is that people are motivated to do something when they improve. Motivation follows improvement, doesn't necessarily proceed at. And so I think there's a real pressure on leadership and professional learning to make sure there is improvement. But we can't blame the teachers here. Some teachers are very wise. They go to professional learning, they learn tips and tricks waste of time. And we know that professional learning is quite variable, but professional learning that works actually improves you. Now that requires me, if I'm your leader or your coach, to firstly understand how you think. Understand what motivates you. Understand your theory of teaching. Understand your theory of learning. And my job is to help you work out what is the problem here that we're going to fix. Whereas what we often do is we come in with a solution and say, "You're going to use my solution." I don't think we're very good at problem defining. Now the value of the thinking teacher, the one that really makes the difference, they are incredibly good. They are so nosy to use Janet Words. I'm standing over words here. So nosy to find out, "Well, what is it you're struggling with here now? Is it because you haven't got the basic knowledge or is it because you don't understand the question or is it because you've made a mistake in step three in an hour and step five, etc?" They're very nosy and they really want to come in. Because their motivation is, "I want to help you improve." Whereas others, "I've read the script. You do the task. You hand it in. I grade you." So I think it does come back. But I want to put pressure on that professional learning people. Like I like the Singapore model. Every teacher in Singapore is assigned to coach. Not necessarily in the same school. And at the end of the year, if the teacher doesn't make their progression, the coach is fired. Because it should be. They laugh when I say that. They say, "No, we don't actually fire them. We bring them in for retraining and sometimes we give them out the jobs." Of course. Okay. Kind of relief. Yeah. And I think that's a really good model we should look at. So let's be careful. It's not just the teacher here. So basically if I understand you correctly, it's more about also bringing teachers into a mood maybe or a perspective of asking questions of investigating, becoming curious again, and reminding them of the professional. Why is it not so? That's the core evaluative question. And research asks, "So what? Evaluation is why is it so?" And I think this is where we want us to teach. That's what we want in our kids. There is a couple of wonderful pieces of evidence out there that they're a bit damning. It's called bifurcated system. And very simply it says that there's two systems that run in education in most countries. And it's the system that this is what you should do. This is what it is. I'm going to tell you what we should do. Now we want you to do it. And the teacher goes into their classroom and closes their door. So thinking about the history of leadership in Switzerland, it's a perfect example. So the answer is you've got to open the door and you have to go back to the climate where we started in terms of our discussion. If there's a trusting climate, if there's a climate of growth, enhancement and learning, the organisational learning is so critical. And if a teacher is comfortable within that climate and is comfortable in maybe making a mistake and then saying to the students, "This is not working. Let's do something different." Creating that climate is really, really critical. And I would argue what we've done over time in many of our countries and Australia included is really focused on the knowledge and the skill. And this is true in not just our curriculum areas but well being mental health. Same thing. We want you to know all this stuff. We want you to be able to have the skill of imparting it. And what we've forgotten right from initial teacher education is that self, which is where John started, and we know that there are really key components and working with our teachers to feel comfortable to engage in those key components of self. It is self-concept but it's also that self-reflection, that self-awareness. It is that self-efficacy. And it's okay not to feel confident doing something because then you've got collective efficacy. You've got that to bring in resilience and their own sense of think about well being for teaching and learning from a teacher's perspective. So all of those contribute to their readiness to engage in all the things that people say they must do. But we don't talk about those things. It's a real dilemma. These self-factors, these contribute to effective teaching, decisions that are made, they contribute to retention and they contribute to a teacher's readiness to engage in all the activities they need to do with students. So in John's language it's all about their effectiveness and we ignore them in professional learning. We don't go there enough. And we see a phenomenon here in Switzerland that teachers also seem to be overwhelmed on the pressure with delivering the contents, trying to reach learning goals with their students as they have to according to curricula. And at the same time dealing with a lot of heterogeneous groups in terms of linguistic, in terms of cultural, in terms of even religious or other dimensions of difference. So what would you recommend to teachers who do feel this pressure of not succeeding and who have no power left for engaging into, I don't know, a professional learning program or any other kind of training or any other process? I mean, we have a lot of schools also who started to go into a kind of system, a peer system of establishing teacher leaders, for example, expert teachers who could be pioneers and bring their team on board. How can we solve this problem of teachers that are on the pressure and that have no power left? I firstly acknowledge that you're right, that feeling is out there. And I want to turn it on its head. I saw yesterday two schools where I saw stunning interactions of incredibly variable classrooms, quite a lot of pressure. The curriculum is, you say, is large and whatever. And they did it. I think we can learn a lot from those that are already doing it under this or we can blame the outside pressure. But how come those teachers can do it? They have the same curriculum, they have the same time, they have the same kind of kids, and they do it. And one of the things is to look at how efficient they are, to look at their coping strategies. And certainly, my own life as being a head of a university department for 20 plus years is what you not do. But now jargon we call it de-implementation. How do we stop doing things? And I don't think there's enough time and motion studies. And I'd encourage schools and teachers who think that way to get a time and motion person to watch them for a week. There's an amazing amount of things that we do that we don't need to. No one asks us to, but we've done because we've always done and they don't have any effect. Like an our study is 90 plus percent of what a teacher and a principal does they choose to do themselves. But we blame the compliance. We blame the curriculum. And so this is a mindset change I want to make. I'm not saying that teachers aren't given an incredible job to do. They are. Every problem in Swiss society, schools will fix it. We know that happens. And sometimes I think we have to say no to some of those. But coming back, I want to work with teachers to make them more efficient in what they do. I want them to stop. One example with one school we worked with where there were three teachers in one room with 90 kids, one teacher. Did all the preparation for one semester, one third of the year and the other two didn't. Their job was to come to school and teach. On the condition, they didn't tell anyone else because too many people think a busy teacher is a good teacher. An efficient teacher. We can get way down with all those crises you say and you never mentioned the incredible amount of kids coming into Switzerland with our English as a first language or even a background. You haven't added so many other things we can add. The one thing I'd love to do and I say this to every minister I meet wouldn't it be nice minister to set up a curriculum review where the constructions are take half out. Your kids don't need as much. But every curriculum review adds more and more. That's something that we can seriously, seriously fix. But overall, I want to study those teachers and there's never been a school in the world yet that we've gone into where we haven't found a group of them that are doing it incredibly well, love their job, very efficient, acknowledge these problems but have the coping strategies to deal with that. If you step back and look at it, we need system change which is what John is hinting about. If you look at models of well being generally and how you improve well. been and we've taken some of those and had a look at how they might support teachers in this place. You've got to take a systems thinking point of view. It's kind of going through that whole ecosystem. So what kinds of professional learning resources for professional learning can systems provide? Then how can a principal know their school, know the culture, know who is really struggling with, let's say, resilience or being able to say how they're feeling in the classroom, little anxious about things. The leadership in the school needs to understand that climate and then provide a targeted, professional learning in that space. It's precision based, it's targeted to the needs of the teachers. Now the teacher has a responsibility for self-development. Professional learning alone where people are engaged and they're just listening, you might like it, sounds nice, but doesn't mean you're going to do it. So that implementation step requires the right program, the right leadership to promote it and championing it and then engagement and then a backup to say how that go in your classroom and that evaluative cycle is critical. And what we've found in the work we've done looking at those key dispositions that teachers need that predict their behaviour and their intention to behave and things like acceptance of difference in the classroom. Surprisingly, well maybe not surprisingly, resilience, self-awareness, social desirability and self-concept all predict how they're going to behave. So you've really got to take those things into account and then provide resources to assist in that coping strategy, problem solving and emotional solving. Those things are critical, it's got to be done together, one group can't do it, teachers can't do it alone, principals can't do it alone, the system has to be there and has to be resourced. Yeah, so it's like a whole school approach, it has to be a perspective also and also the courage for de-implementation which is sometimes maybe difficult to take. I think the biggest problem in schools is the lack of courage. Yeah, I do have to touch another topic with you. Coming from Australia, I do have to ask about the role of social media, digital technology, artificial intelligence, now that Australia has passed this regulation for social media, for children, your young people on the DH of 16 who are no longer allowed to have a social media account. And we all know about concentration spans and cognitive abilities and how children can keep focused on tasks. What is your opinion about this? Do you think that this will be effective or do we already know whether it is effective? I think the major issue and John points to this regularly is that there have been no guardrails around social media. So something had to be done and we were a bit late. From a learning point of view, it concerns me that we are taking technology away from our students, we are not giving them, developing those skills that they will need. So imagine being 16 and not being engaged in some form of social media, not being able to cope with the flood of information that's coming in there, that the comments about people etc and you've had no exposure. So we know from history, prohibition doesn't work. On the other hand, right now today, something needed to be done. And so what's starting to happen within schools, while there's been a pushback from technology generally, no phones in schools, no iPads in schools, we did see computers the other day and that was fantastic the way they were using it. That's a real concern for me. There's digital natives. So we have to commence with really getting people to understand how it should be used, put those guardrails in place. And I think the last thing that's really, really important and I'm going to argue very strongly and have in Australia and we'll continue to is we are not teaching our students to make evaluative judgments about the quality of the information that's in front of them. And unless we do that, we are going to have a serious problem. You are not going to stop the flood of information. And we're basically critical thinking. Even with walk-ending. So it is because you've got to, you've got to make a judgment about your own opinions and then you've got to reset and think, well have I got enough evidence to do that? Peer assessment is kind of making evaluative judgment. We saw that in the classroom the other day. That is critical. Half of our teachers don't do it either. So we've really got to work with our teachers to model that with our students and that's really all tied up with technology, AI, social media. Well we have different views on this. Janet was talking there about use of technology in the classroom and no one's taking that away. It's the use of social media apps. That's health advice. And I agree that we didn't have the discussion 10 years ago and we're paying an enormous price. The bullying, the misuse is huge and it crosses the boundaries of school and home and I can't think of a single thing that a teacher would want to do that requires the use of an iPhone in the classroom that they couldn't use an iPad or a computer for. So I'm in favour of banning phones. It will need a reset as we go through. This was well-heralded about a year before it happened so it was plenty of activity. It was resisted as you know by the software companies dramatically but they solved it. It started in December which in Australia was the end of the school year. So the question is what happens over January and February and what happens when they come back? When they came back it was astonishing. For example there was a study in the media this past week where a school measured the noise and the playground last year and the noise and the playground this year has gone up by a factor of 11. That's dramatic and the whole ocean. Now we ban kids driving cars, we ban them, we're going to pubs and alcohol, we ban them from lots of smoking, whatever. And of course the kids who get around it. And one of the biggest problems we found is that the parents who then allow their children to use their social media account to perpetuate the problems we had before. Of course there's going to be that. But overall many schools had already banned phones in schools very effectively. Even before. Absolutely. And so that was not a surprise to many and very few will actually go back on that. But here's the problem. Are we going to wait 10 years to have the same guardrail discussion about AI? We better move fast because that's got much more invidious and nasty implications if we get it wrong. The question here or the discussion was always revolving or also around the issue of if we ban cell phones then we also ban cooperation or interaction between students, between people because it's not that they don't spend their break times being alone on their cell phone. A lot of the time students there are two or three who I don't know have some kind of conversation. So it's a dilemma. And there's going to be a few lonely people out there now because of what you've said. But this is where schools are responsible for the climate and culture in the school. Before cell phones we always took the view of how you do mix up kids that we're not a dating service so we're not asking kids to be friends but you are asking the classroom for them to learn how to respect themselves and respect others. You are asking them like all our employers have been asking for the last 30 years for graduates who can work in teams you can translate and communicate. And if we don't do that in our classrooms who are not making our students employable. So I hear what you're saying but I think that puts more responsibility on us to do what we should be doing for the last 20 years dealing with that. It is an issue for a core group and that core group students that require additional needs at neurodiversity. So we're actually cutting off a way of communicating. The truth be told I don't support total bands or anything because it doesn't really work. We need to do something and I suspect that what we've done will set the guard rails up and then it'll balance out. But I do have real concerns for our students who have additional needs in mainstream schools because technology, AI, social media, all of those things have a wonderful impact for people who just are quiet. But I can do it this way. Think about the gamers. They have great friends online. I don't know how many older people had engaged with Facebook and it's amazing how you sort of reconnect with people. Well that's going to be the same for our students, you know, whether it's Facebook or whatever it is in the future. So yeah I have some concerns about that. I may also have a different situation as you have pointed out before between digital technology in a teaching situation, in comparison to social media, on cell phones and so on. We have so many questions for you prepared. I'm so afraid that the time is running out and running out, but I do have a very central question that addresses the students here at our university who will become future teachers. Now, if you could give an advice or some kind of maybe professional hint to what kind of mindset they have to adopt, what kind of, what the most important competencies for future teachers are, what would you say to them? What would you like to give Swiss students who will become primary, secondary or kindergarten teachers as an advice? So, we know through a tremendous evidence base what relates to a successful teacher in the classroom. And we can demonstrate there's some key characteristics that will predict your classroom readiness down the line. So, obviously the knowledge, have to build the knowledge, have to build skills really important. Again, I'm going to go back to those key characteristics, so acceptance of difference, social skills, the ability to communicate the psychosocial skills, those are essential. Building self-efficacy, building resilience. Interestingly, physical health and well-being play an important part, which I never would have predicted because we sometimes have teachers that aren't particularly happy in their own life, yet they come into the classroom and they blossom and burst and it's a place of happiness for them. But there's no doubt that sense of self-care is really critical. Their motivation, which will predict readiness. So, what you've got to think about is the motivation to teach what you want to do. Your self-characteristics, these capabilities to self-reflect, to think evaluatively, to understand that continual learning. They're key. And as teacher educators, it is our job to ensure that we are building all of those and we don't. And particularly at the moment given teacher shortages and the issues of workload and all of those things, we are missing dealing with the actual problem because we're just loading them with more things and not giving them the opportunity to think about what they need to cope. And then the idea that when they go into the classroom, they're totally classroom ready. It's not quite true because they've generally in most countries they have a year or two to catch up. But what about that induction? And what happens in that place? There's a period where we must have the cognitive skills. I will never, ever deny that. I need them to know stuff. I need them to be able to do things. But most importantly, I need them to understand themselves so that they can think evaluatively about the situation they're in, their impact and how they feel. And it would be the role of our universities to take up this role as the coach or the guy who sits next to you in the car while you're driving. Yes. Students who come to us have had 15,000,000 hours of being a student. And our job is to have them look through the eyes of a teacher to understand what it looks like to be learners in front of them. If they no longer are a learner in front of the teacher, they're the teacher in front of a learner. And so we have a chance, we know at the moment from the meta-analysis, the effects eyes of initial teacher education is tiny. And that's a problem because we do deal with their worry about classroom management, their content skills. And we shall worry about those things. But the one big thing that we often forget is how they think about what they do. And so when we had the program at the University of Melbourne, every single assignment, every assignment was the same five questions. And these are the five questions that I want everyone to think about becoming a teacher. What's the problem here? And working at the problem with an individual student or a group of kids or a class is really a skill. Because what we often do is we come in with a solution and hope it fits the problem. And that's initial teacher education students, they want a lesson plan. What if their kids are already not about 40 to 50% of everything taught in every class the kids know already? Now wonder that board. So what's the problem? What's the evidence-based intervention you're going to use to address the problem? How did you go about implementing it? What worked? What didn't? Because in the real world it doesn't always work. What was the impact in terms of what was taught well and what wasn't taught well? Who was taught well? Who wasn't well taught well? It wasn't progress. And what are you going to do next? And we wanted them to think this way as they went into their math class or their physics class or they had a naughty student or interaction with a parent or whatever. And this evaluative thinking that Janet is writing the book about spending a lifetime looking at this notion is what we need to do from day one in our initial teacher education. And quite frankly we don't. We fill them up with tips and tricks. We put them out there in hope like hang that they don't fall over. And I just think that's not good enough. There is a way of thinking. There's a way of, and the irony is that we ask, particularly in our high schools, our math teachers want kids to think like a mathematician. The story is one to think like an historian. We need to think like a teacher. How do I maximize my impact? Thank you very much for these final important words, the statements we have to think like a teacher. Janet and John, I would like to thank you very much for being here, for taking the time, for going into the conversation here. And I wish you all the best for your remaining days here. Thank you. Thank you. (upbeat music)