Leading Without Losing Yourself: Savio P. Clemente on Clarity, Adaptive Resilience, and the Post-Crisis Leadership Gap

says, "Pushing Time." What does it actually cost to lead it to keep going when everything around them is uncertain? Not the financial cost, not the strategic cost, the human cost, the clarity that quietly drains, the decisions that feel heavier than they should. The version of yourself, you keep promising to come back to once things settle down, everything is fine. Today, we are talking about what it means to lead without losing yourself. So stick with us because this is going to be a very important conversation. The comeback dear listeners to this blend part of the Healthy Mind By Avic Network where we blend business with the human being running it, rather human beings running it. I am your host Sanna and listeners. Today, I have a guest. Let me let me share a bit about him. So he has actually lived this conversation from a place a very few people have. So my guest is a two-time cancer survivor. Both certified wellness coach, best selling author, resilient strategist and also the founder of the human resolve. I mean beyond all the titles and the roots, what I believe it definitely will connect with us is he knows what it means to rebuild from the inside out. He brings that depth into the work he does, helping leaders find clarity, make better decisions and also sustain performance without burning out in a world that I mean honestly it never seems to slow down. So let's welcome our guest, Savio Clementi. So Savio, welcome to the show and I am really really honored. I am glad you are here. Sanna, thank you so much for that introduction and thank you so much for inviting me. I am very grateful. Absolutely. Savio, I know that let me tell all the listeners as well. Before we started this recording, we were having a very active conversation and let me tell you listeners what I really, really find and this is not that. This is the only trait of being authentic or genuine but when you are actually practicing what you are telling others, I think there's a different kind of power, there's different kind of energy and conviction with what you say. Basically you have to practice what you preach. So it comes to clarity listeners. Yes, we are with the right guest in there. So Savio, thank you so much for bringing up this topic and for being here once again. Absolutely, Sanna. Thank you so much. I know we were talking before the show started about my background because you were like I said, can you guess where I'm from and my parents are both from Goa India. So I'm in Indian. And American as well. I came to the States when I was two years old but I'm in India. Absolutely, absolutely. Bill and so Savio, before we go into the topics and all the discussion, of course, you know, this is such an essential part of any and I believe, you know, that's why Bisman podcast is here for. So I would love to start somewhere, you know, personal with your own journey. You have described your philosophy as get busy living. Now there's this lot of nuance in there. This is, you know, although these are just three words in there where it holds a lot of lot of meaning. So when did these three words first, you know, become something more than a phrase for you? So I would say that I emulated that those three words from a movie that I was in the 90s called Shawshank Redemption and in the movie, they talk about this idea of get busy living or get busy dying. And when I heard that, even back then, with before everything that life has given me, the good and the bad and the ugly, I knew that when I had cancer in 2014, that was when I was first diagnosed, that that was a motto I had to not only align myself with but live. And then 10 years I was in remission. And then in 2024 of June of 2024, I ended up finding out about my relapse. And so for me, those three words are important because I can speak to you all day about the wound, but I would rather speak to you about the walk. What do we do when stuff happens to us? And so my focus is on healthcare leadership. And I, it's for most part, most people focus on surviving the crisis. But the real challenge begins after the crisis. When our old operating system no longer works, but we still have to perform, that's the phase I study. You mentioned earlier that I'm an author, I'm also a journalist. And at this point, I think you've got 2,000, over 2,000 thought leaders, experts and even celebrities in this idea of how do you survive the crisis because very few people are prepared to lead after it. That's a very bad for a day, where I believe to begin this conversation with Savio. Because, I mean, we always at the back of our minds, you know, especially, I mean, I guilty as Josh, I'm a big time overthinker. I'm very sure. I mean, considering the current situations, you know, the scenario we are in, the world we are in right now, it's justified. Yes. You know, sometimes you cannot run away from the fact that yes, these are difficult times and maybe we have to be, we have to start getting better at, you know, get prepared. I mean, being forearmed and trying to just, you know, go through the crisis. But the part where I also kind of, you know, sometimes do not think about is, how will I come back after that crisis? How will I rebuild it? You know, because that takes a lot of courage. And it's not just that, you know, that loud mouth courage, that aggression, it's about that courage. And at the same time, you know, acknowledging the vulnerability of the situation, your own vulnerability in there. So that's a very, very powerful statement, I would say. One hundred percent. And I would add on to it to be forewarned as to be forearmed. Yes. So if we know that these are tendencies and the majority of people, including myself, I'm an overthinker, I'm a recovering overthinker. I'm gotten better at it. But this, and just FYI, with the healthcare leaders, especially those, right, who we all revere, they're the ones who have very high stakes because not only for themselves, but for the organization, but also for another human being that they are assigned to take care of. That's a big deal. So this idea of cognitive fatigue, cognitive load, and cognitive displacement is a real thing. It's not, it's how we are wired as humans. We have a nervous system that needs to be not only placed in a way that suits our needs, but also controlled in a way that allows us to function properly. And the core tenet of all this is this idea of self-regulation. How do we regulate? You know, Son, when I was in the hospital with this relapse, I got a stem cell transplant. And I was supposed to be there for 21 days. I ended up being there for 29 days. It's because I had techacardi. Every time I would stand up, my heart, pulse, it would go up to like 16170. And they had to send me to the ICU one night to get North from effort. It was that bad. And at the end of the day, I tell you this story because when they would come to do my vitals every four hours, could Sonnet control my red blood cells? No. Can I control my white blood cells? No. Can I control my platelets? No. But what can I control Sonnet? I could control the way I think. I could control showing up for when they did rounds. Instead of just having them treat me, I decided, you know what? Let's have a partnership. Let's try to meet this healing together. Let me try to reframe the quote unquote "poisons, toxic," you know, "kimone," all that. Let me reframe it as something powerful that was designed to do what it's supposed to do medically and scientifically. Let me actually see it as an elixir. Let me see it as mana from the universe, that special substance that was afforded in the Bible to a lot of individuals on their own journey. Let me look at this experience. And I say this with conviction. Let me look at this spiritual exile. So I grew up Catholic, but I was raised with a very sort of idea of curiosity. And so in college, I studied various belief systems all the way from Buddhism to Vedic philosophy. And Eastern philosophy really teaches us this idea that nature has its own rhythm. It has its own movement. We cannot force the river, nor we can force the sea. growing. We can only adhere to how it flows and how it goes. And so I think the key element there is to know myself, is to heal myself. It's a great phrase and it lives with me and has lived with me for many, many decades. I think these beliefs, you know, they form your personal values. I mean, they become your foundational pillars to look at especially tough times in any, in any, in your lives. I mean, yeah, people you are trying to kind of always, and we kind of, you know, try to always put things into different labels. But I'm just only a spiritual person. I'm just only a skeptic in there. I'm just only a logical person. I'm just only a rational person. But maybe I can be spiritual. I can be, I can love science and I can also be logical at the same time. When things are really, really tough for me, and just for maybe that very moment, I am trying to seek answers. Media, I'm not finding that in science or logic or rationality. I resort to my spirituality, you know, I'll maybe resort to prayer or I'll resort to getting myself centered, you know, having that hope. Because that will keep me going on. That will help me to probably look better into the scientific or the logical aspect of that particular challenge to look for answers or, you know, solutions to figure out. 100% and you can imagine with the healthcare leaders I work with, this idea of improving decision making under their pressure, maintaining clarity and composure. I mean, there's all these technical terms that can talk about, which is this idea of strategic reversals and how to prevent those costly reversals, which is an idea that was adopted, but they find out it's no less than the standard of care. This idea of accelerating post-crisis momentum, like COVID showed us that with the innovations that were adopted, improving return on investment, this idea of increasing ramp, which is the recovery, post-apacian delays, all this really is to say that how do we handle the obstacles, the strategic outcomes that come from it? And how do we then integrate that into a leadership that people can emulate? I mean, what's leadership, Sana? Leadership doesn't mean the corporation always. Yes, it does. Some degree. Leadership is how people see you, how they want to follow you, how they want to act based upon what you say and do. That's really what leadership is. And so I think it's really important for us to really figure out for ourselves when a problem arises, like you said, to have some level of psychological distancing from it. So it's not detachment, it's not dissociation. It's this idea of creating a space so that the stress, the thought and the emotion can have room to breathe. And then also it's really this idea of metacognition. We were taught early on that intelligence was the number one quality to have. Then we were taught, no, no, no, no, emotional intelligence is the quality to have. Then now science points to metacognition. And what is metacognition? It's the thinking of the thinking. How you get into that state? You get into that state. I'm a long time mediter, I've been meditating every day for over 20 years now. It's helped me through my process. I started off with one minute. Now it's 20 minutes a day. If I don't have it, then I feel off from the center of gravity. And this doesn't have to be a religious context. I know many friends who are atheist. Just think of it as a connection with the larger part of your being. It doesn't have to be something spiritual. It could just be something scientific. And so you can get to metacognition through journaling. You can get it through prayer. You can get it through walking silence. You can get it through breathing, you know, doing breathing exercises. Whatever is your thing. And then like I mentioned earlier, this idea of, you know, resilience, but adaptive resilience, that when you're in the pain and the discomfort, how do you remain flexible? How do you change behavior? How do you create strategies in real time? Instead of just drifting, you actually come back to source, to your source, to your energy, to your thoughts, to your feelings, to your emotions. Absolutely. Well, that's, that's, I think, once again, I think that's the intention rightfully for this discussion, the listeners. So, Savya, let me go to especially the one particular word that you used decision-making. And just going a layer deeper in there, you know, let's say when a leader is chronically unclear, struggling to make decisions. And this is not once again, you know, I'm just kind of, you know, specifying leader, but it doesn't have to be always in the corporate or business context. I think in our own personalize also with our loved ones, you know, as you mentioned, perfectly. We are kind of leading ourselves, you know, sometimes we are leading our loved ones as well. We are there to hold, you know, all of them together. So when let's say, you know, a leader is second-guessing themselves or feeling like, you know, they're reacting instead of, you know, just leading. What is actually driving that? I mean, because you know, it's, it's easy to blame, the environment, the market, the circumstances, the pressure. But what do you think it is really happening underneath? I'll give you a classic example. So before my relapse in June of 2024, my editor gave me an assignment. Now, this is outside of my lane, outside of my beat, what I cover for journalism. So I cover leadership, I cover wellness, I cover even, you know, various, you know, travel, like luxury travel. And he's like, would you like to go to cover the red carpet at the Oscars? I'm like, what? And he's like, yeah, so I went. And I realized something very interesting. When I'm there, surrounded by all the other journalists, and the celebrities come, I'm thinking they're coming as themselves. No, Sana, they're coming and they're still acting because they have to impress me as the journalists. They have to impress their manager. They have to impress their handlers. They have to impress all these people. So they're coming in with a performance rather than coming in as the human. And of course, those things can be one and the same to some degree, but I just was shocked by it. And so I tell you this story because I think it's very important for us to let that armor down a little bit. Yes, we have our titles. Yes, we have to be seen a certain way in a business context. Yes, we, but why? And I think this is what people mostly struggle with, especially those who work for large organizations. They often say, this job is so sucking. Well, you know what, Sana, why can't it be soul searching? Why can't we find little things, little pockets of things that allow ourselves to connect with one another? Allow ourselves to put down the guard and the facade, our titles, and allow us to just find commonality with one another. And I think that's really one of the big issues that we have to face right now as a nation, as a global enterprise, just generally as people living on this planet. I think also what's very important is that when that happens to us and we find out that we cannot get a semblance of how we lead forward or how we move forward, we always have to go back to self. Nature teaches that. Eastern philosophy teaches that. Various belief systems teach that. And so this is actually a point that I would like to hone on in because I did a TEDx talk about three years ago and the title of the talk was seven minutes to wellness, how to love your inner stranger. And people were like, that's such a weird inner stranger. What do you do with that? All stranger. Yeah. And and someone asked me, they're like, what's your inner stranger? I'm like, okay, well, the inner stranger for me is that young person that never felt completely grounded. I never felt like I was completely attached to things and people. I always felt like I was floating. And even a friend used to joke around and say, I was a nomad, you know, that's what he would call me. And and then and then the person was like, oh, I get it. Okay, I think for me, the inner stranger is that perfect professional person that executive I I want to aspire to be, but I can't seem to reach or that perfect mother I want to be, but I can't seem to get that or that or that great sibling that I could be, but I just I can't. Oh, that and so I actually created a reboot off of my framework, which is called the adaptive resilient framework that I use for my keynotes and for my coaching as well. And a stands for acknowledge or acknowledge where you are. Don't pretend whether that's doing a brain dump or just putting things on paper or typing things out, just acknowledge where you are. Be real, real realistic about it. L stands for listening. So listen, listen to your inner self. Now, Aloha is also the word in Hawaiian, which means hello. Yeah. And so it's a hello to your inner self. And so in Hawaiian actually they have a healing modality called Huna healing and Huna healing, they believe that you can talk to the body that the body has sensations, it has movements, but it also has intelligence, it has wisdom to share with you. So I don't expect people to talk to themselves in front of other people, but in the prior Obviously, of your own home, you could attempt to do that. And it's just about getting to know what I call the three brains, the head, heart, and gut, and to see what kind of information lends itself. So this falls into the realms of embodiment, this falls in the realms of just getting to know self, a little deeper and a little better. Oh, stands for opening. So open yourself up to that information. It's not scary. It's just getting to know you and what your motivations and drives are. L, I'm sorry, h stands for harnessing. So harness that information, make the connections, and a stands for acting. So act with purpose, but I have a caveat. Act with courage. That is interesting. That is interesting. So acknowledge, listen, openness, harnessing, and acting. With purpose, but then with courage. Absolutely. Wow. Super. And I've got a lot of questions, have you? But the example that you gave, the Oscars, and I believe that people may have different opinions in the when it comes to authentic selves. And this is something that I have also questions struggle with a lot. I mean, I see some people are completely, you know, we say, quote unquote unfiltered, ruthless, or nothing too high. They are very much open publicly as well. But then when I think about it, or I see some of the other people out there, they're very careful in what kind of persona they are they're having. Either it's a complete facade, or it's just very restricted, very calculated. And I mean, we are in a world right now, which is super connected. I mean, you just say a single sentence in there, or maybe a simple action, a tweet, or a simple picture view. It can spread like wildfire out there. And people are either very quickly to support you, or they're quickly out there, who the trolley will judge you. So what do you think, Saviyah? I mean, in today's world, you know, and it's not just about in the business context. But as a person who is ready to take charge of their own realizing they don't want to leave it to fate, or destiny, or luck. Now they want to take control of it. And I'm not seeing from the perspective of domination, but actually, healthy control in there, physically, emotionally, mentally. It may sound difficult, but at least just to start with, to them, if they want to really think about authenticity, what context do you believe that a healthy authenticity can be, you know, can be, can we think or begin with? So authenticity is a word that I obviously, and you obviously believe wholeheartedly in, but it's also been overused. There's also a point where you can be so authentic that it's too much information, right? So people over share, and that happens constantly. So I think the really the key with authenticity is, what are your values? What are things that light spark joy in you? What is something that you grew up with that you still find to be true? And what is something that you grew up with that you decided? You know what? It's not true, and you have a new way of being or new way forward from. I think that's really the key with authenticity. It's allowing yourself to grow and change, because that's the world we live in. We live in a world where things change. And for me, it happened to be two times cancer, and it happened to have shown me different things. But I'm also curious enough to understand that I can't control those things that have happened to me. So the life that I once led is no longer what it is. I didn't know, but once I got my sum cell transplant, they actually count the days after. In other words, they actually told me it was a medical rebirth. They actually told me that I have another birthday, and I thought they were joking with me. They're like, no, you have another birthday. I'm like, really? And like, yeah, because once your bone marrow is depleted, which mine was, and they gave me my own stem cells back, that means I'm a new person from a medical sense. And so that comes with recovery, that comes with integration, that also comes with pause. And sometimes the greatest thing, at least for me, in that experience was the silence and stillness. It's a very misunderstood situation when you're in, because people think that you're suffering, but what you're really doing is you're gestating, what you're really doing is you're integrating, what you're really doing is that you're finding your own in that space. And I'm not trying to make this all sound flowery and sugarcoding it, because it was harrowing. I experienced diarrhea issues. I couldn't eat for a week. I had no desire to eat food. My skin was four times darker because of all the drugs that were pumped into me. I had dry mouth. It was not pleasant. I had to get scans, like literally every day. But what I'm trying to say is that through that mess, through all of it, I was able to find a semblance of myself. And I think that's what authenticity is. Is that no matter what's being faced or sent in front of you, or things that have landed in your lap that you didn't want, how are you able to let your own individuality shine through the pain? Because it's even for it to shine through the joy. That's easy. How can you let it shine through the pain? And I think that's a test for all of us. Yeah, it is. It is. It is. It is. And several also before we wrap up, one thing that you mentioned is, we know this tradition that you are talking to your body. It has its own intelligence. You mentioned about the three brains, the head, gut and heart. I mean, if we look at, I think the book name is The Body Keep School. I mean, I've had multiple conversations where sometimes our traumatic experiences, or that heaviness that always sits in one corner of your mind, you just kind of compartmentalize it and how sometimes your body tries to communicate, probably loudly with you, signals, nudges, how it manifests, probably into disease, maybe your skin, your heartbeats. They are trying to just communicate with you that it's not in alignment. I think that not only touches the spiritual realm, it scientifically also touches it. And that's why I think we always try to label that anything which is spiritual, is mostly for a feel, go, or it's just woo, or it's just restricted to something which is kind of a placebo effect. But I think right now, there are people, there are communities, there are researchers. They are, you know, they are working on facts or maybe current code misconceptions or myths that, you know, science and spirituality, they cannot go hand in hand. They do go hand in hand, maybe, you know, not in the same language as they were communicated. Maybe centuries or years back, but maybe in the modern context, how they come out and how they make sense in our day to day lives. Yes, so I am familiar with the Body Cube Score. It is true the body does, trauma gets stored in the body. I'm a board certified wellness coach, so I can speak about health and wellness together. Your acupuncture teaches us about the meridians, science teaches us about the aspects of the fascia and how that gets stored, memory gets stored, emotion gets stored, and then how physical trauma rips through how emotional trauma is the silent, undercurrent of that. You know, we can talk about this idea that the body itself resonates something that the head, heart and gut is trying to get us towards. We can talk about the chakras and Indian philosophy, which are yoga. All of this is really to say that before modern science, before modern medicine, many of us, at least the inhabitants of that time, relied on nature. That's how they heal themselves. That's how they were able to regenerate themselves. That's how they're able to create not only worship, but create a language and create a civilization from that. And so I think it's really important for us to sort of realize that no one really has the answer. We have A answer and I'm a byproduct of modern medicine. I mean, I would not have survived twice without modern medicine. But I also do believe that healing is not linear. Healing is, it goes up and down. And so for me, my process was, especially after this relapse, was to put everything else on hold and to focus on healing. So I let the doctors, the medical doctors do their thing. And I also did a whole bunch of integrated modalities from acupuncture red light to ecstatic dance to internal family systems work where different parts of me were shown to me, individualized in front of me. And I saw the correlation by having an objective view of that rather than the subjective view of that, which I think is really important when it comes to healing. So just generally, I think the most important thing is to be open-minded. Obviously have discernment. Obviously not everything is a cure all. Obviously not everything is a panacea. You do want verified data. You do want double blind studies. You do want all that checked off. But you also have to realize that when it comes to the realm of healing before modern medicine, before modern science, they were able to heal themselves. They were able to take a situation and transform. They were able to take opportunities and create something new from that, even as devastating as some of those things were. I tell you a quick story. I was on a different podcast actually recently. And it was mostly centered around older individuals. And one of the questions I asked was, what do I tell 67-year-olds who finished their work and they're comfortable financially, but they just don't have any gusto or zest for life? And I said, well, what sparks that internal flame for them? What sparks that movement again? And if some of them don't see it, then there's nothing I can do. There's nothing you can do to make them blind that spark. They have to look within to find that spark. That's a hard road for a lot of people. But then I also said, I remind them if you're someone who believes in biblical texts about the story of Moses, they say Moses started his mission at 80. He was called at 80 to lead his people at a bondage. And then he lived for another 40 years and died at 120. Now he could have been, he could have said at 80, I'm too old. My body is too worn. But no, he chose, he made a decision and chose to do that. And so I tell my dad the same situation because my dad is in his 80s, thankfully still alive. But you have to find that fire within and no one can give it to you. You have to actually go search for it. Absolutely. I mean, it can be. It can be hard. But that's what I think it's about getting back that I keep on. I've learned this word and I'm going to keep using this word every time, every conversation every podcast agency. I am in love with this word, honestly, Savvio. You need to have your agency back because nobody can give you that. They can guide you. They can mentor you. They can coach you. But if you are not ready, then it's very difficult. When you are ready, when the student is ready to get taught, then they get the teachers. It's something like that. 100% and with agency comes operational harmony with operational harmony comes body autonomy. I could have made decisions. No one forces you to go into one avenue of healing, but I made choices. I decided to do what the Buddha taught a long time ago, which was the middle way. The middle way is the answer. Whether you call that balance, or whether you call that dot tipping, and you call that a straight line, whatever the fact of the matter is, it behooves you. No matter what faces you, for me, it happened to be medical. It could be something social. It could be something personal. It could be something work related. Whatever that is for you, that bolder, that big, huge obstacle in front of you. The first key is to always go within internally and then go without. You often make the mistake that they seek out other situations in order to fix the problem. I could have the same problem. If the problem is because of my work, I could be in a different job and still have the same problem. The problem is with the partner. I could leave the partner for a year and still be stuck with that same issue. We have to explore what's going on inside. Especially with healthcare leaders that I work with. It's very hard because they're taught one way and then they're taught to quiet down the human aspects of themselves. Of course, we need compliance. We need professionalism. We also need to bring the human back because you know what, in a world of AI that creates content for us and a gentick AI that actually does tasks for us. It's important for us humans to connect with other humans. Absolutely. Before we wrap up, Sabi mentioned something which I think you know it's your that journalistic instinct in their talking, but I think once again, if we look at the modern day in age, I think it is becoming more and more important that curiosity and openness because it's very easy to put out your opinion out loud, not listen and just believe that if I keep on saying this, this will become the truth. This will become, this will hold the power that truth. But we sometimes kind of fail to listen, to accept constructive criticism in there. We fail to acknowledge that people can have different opinions, people can have different experiences. And you know, all these experiences, all these opinions, these thoughts that shaped by their own environment, their own experiences, what they are observing, their own, probably the values maybe, their own ideas. So I think that diversity of thoughts and opinions is something that only humans of course in the humanity, that's something that I think it becomes, it's becoming more and more important to sustain and cherish us and acknowledge us that yes, you know, you can think of simply. Absolutely. It starts with self-awareness, right? And then you talk about this idea of decision speed. You're talking about this idea, like you mentioned earlier about agency and this idea that we explored about self-regulation. How does that all mingle and co-mingle with one another? How do we create breakthrough at a stagnation when it comes to that? And I'll just share a personal, I have a family member who, her and I, don't agree on our political beliefs. And for a long time, it was a cause of tension. But I realized that, especially after this relapse of mind, that both of us are not going to move our individual base. We're not going to move. So what do we agree on? We agree on things like people, love our parents, we agree on food and we agree on travel. So we talk about those things because those are really important. So like you said, we could have harmony with this harmony. We could have a unity with diversity. But at the end of the day, each of us has to give and take a little. Otherwise we're not going to survive, we're just not. We're not going to survive. And is there anything that, especially for a leader, I mean, they are listening to this conversation. And maybe they are in that co-season of the push and survey. Still showing up, they're still delivering. But maybe they are privately running on very little. But would you want them to hear right now? Before they hit a wall that they can't come back from early. Easy. Hit a wall, burn out. They call us so many things. I would say an echo, this idea of adaptive resilience, that it's not just about bouncing back. It's adjusting in real time because that's the only way to get to clarity. Clarity only happens when we ourselves are not clear only on what we need to do, but who we are. That's the only way clarity happens because the more that you are able to be in touch with what drives you, what motivates you, what lights you up, the more you're able to lead. People and humans, we bounce back off each other. We are mirrors for one another. Whether you think that's woo-woo or not, it is the truth. Why do you think so many people say, no, I don't have a good feeling about that or that's not good in my gut or because that consternation that hesitancy is information. We have to be clearer about where that information is coming from and how we process that information. I tell people all the time, if you're given some level of truth, you have to discern whether that truth with a big team, not the small tea truth, that truth is something that can filter down to the rest of the of your body, because we don't have to dis, and this is something I learned, this is not my own teaching, but truth doesn't have to be dismissed because you found an error in it. Truth has to be examined and distilled and processed in order to find how to move forward with it. So, I have to ask you, so I think I listen to a lot of their own lived experiences, maybe their own thoughts or opinions, I'm very sure they would love to share with you. So how they can reach out to you, Savio. Sure, they can find everything on my website, Savio, P Clemente, SAVIOP, CLEM, ENTE. There you can find my keynote work, you can find my TEDx talk, seven minutes to wellness, how to love your inner stranger. I have a best-selling book where I interviewed 200 cancer survivors and what they gleaned and learned, this was before my relapse. Also every Wednesday, like today, I actually have my substack newsletter, which I go into the head, heart, and gut intelligence and my interviews and a series I'm doing with CEOs and CMOs on the healthcare leadership operating system. At the moment, I also have a few spots open for 2020 sticks for keynotes. So if anyone has any spots for healthcare leadership keynotes or leadership in general, this idea of post-crisis leadership gap, let me know. And then on social media, they can find me at every platform, at the human resolve, because at the end of the day, Tana, resolve is the only thing we have that we can actually move forward with. Super, super, super, and thank you so much, Savio, for the first of all, because I think this was one of those conversations, which I think we went so many places in there in this entire universe of humanity. I think these conversations, they don't have a definite time period in the way we could go on and on and on. And that's why I think sometimes, entire life is, it falls short of the wisdom that you would want to gain. And sometimes, even changes, challenges, they give you those life lessons, which you never would have even thought of. So first of all, thank you so much, so much, Savio, for being here and for bringing something really, really rare to this conversation. You know, the kind of earned wisdom that only comes from having actually walked through the fire. Thank you. I couldn't have said it any beautiful. Thank you for allowing me to express a greater level of understanding for my own self, because I learned through what I say as well. And thank you for asking such resonant questions. I really appreciate the time here. Thank you, thank you, Savio. And yes, thank you to all of my listeners. If I'm very sure, I'm very sure that something from this conversation has definitely stood something within you. So if it did, I hope you'll let it. Don't just, you know, file it away, maybe you can journal it or maybe, you know, yeah, I mean, it's, it's different for all of us. Yes, don't rush past it. Let it be the conversation that you would return to this week. And yes, to correct with Savio, just refer to the, to the description to the show notes, find them attached along with the set the sword on whichever platform you are feeling and your wisdom forecast right now. Until next time, I am Sana. This has been this blend. Take care of yourselves. I'll catch you in the next episode. Thank you so much.