Leadership Journeys [268] - Hanim Dogan Jain - "Self-confidence comes from outside but self-worth is from the inside"

Welcome to Choosing Leadership, a podcast for leaders who refuse to play spot. I am Somit Goptha, founder of TenGen Partners. I am here because I see too many brilliant leaders trapped in daily firefights. Too many companies hitting walls that they do not need to hit, too many people waiting for weekends instead of waking up every day excited to go to work. And very frankly, that is unacceptable to me, that is for me a waste of human potential. At TenGen Partners, we are an unapologetic call to excellence. We help entrepreneurial companies make 100 million jumps, helping them achieve not just their goals, but more than they currently think is possible. I wasn't meant to be here, doing what I do today. I am living an impossible life today. And I have reinvented myself multiple times over. This podcast is not about giving you more content. It is about shifting the context under which you operate. Because leadership is not a position, leadership is a choice. In each episode, I will bring you conversations with leaders who have made these choices, the uncomfortable ones, the courageous ones, and the ones that changed everything for them and their companies. I will bring you leaders who have chosen love over fear, who have chosen integrity over ease, and who have chosen excellence over comfort. Now most entrepreneurs work in their business. The smart ones step back to work on their business. But the truly exceptional ones, they work on themselves. So if you are ready to stop playing small, if you are tired of incremental gains, and ready for exponential growth, and if you want to build teams, to create impact that outlast our lifetimes, then you are in the right place. And with that, keep listening and let's get started. Our name is an exited tech founder, investor, advisor, and a partner at Prime Advantage Capital Partners. In the interview, Haneem shares how she grew up between Turkey and Holland, how she learned the importance of self-worth, apart from just confidence, and how she dropped the mask at 50 to lead as her own unique self. She urges leaders to act with courage and care. Back overlooked founders say no will love and build habits that protect your inner peace. Welcome, Haneem, to the Choosing Leadership Podcast. Thank you, Simeaks. It's a pleasure to have you again, Simeaks. Why don't you start by sharing a little bit about who you are and what is it that you do today? Thank you for having me on your wonderful podcast. A short intro about myself. I'm originally from Turkey, born in race in Holland, and I call myself a world citizen. Professionally, I am an exited tech founder, turned investor, and my passion at this stage in my life is giving back to founders by helping them grow their business. Thank you for sharing that. Let us take us back into your backstory, right? You mentioned Turkey, Netherlands, but tell us more, especially share any pivotal moments that you would say shaped you into who you are today. Yeah, that's a lovely question, Simeaks. I think someone else mentioned to me the other day, and that a good question to ask people is, what is your story? And I think I have pretty much an amazing story like everyone else has. And my story begins with my parents. My parents are immigrants. They wanted a better future. They had dreams, and their dream was to have a better future for the children. From where they're coming from, very humble beginnings in Turkey, in the countryside, where there was nothing, no running water, no electricity, then they wanted to raise five children. And their goal was actually to educate them. Because my dad always said, till this day, it's still ringing in my ears, an education is like a golden bracelet, it does not lose its value wherever you go in the world. And thank God they made their dream come true, and they're still with us, bless them. And all the five children have an education, and you can see how that completely shifted one generation and what an impact that makes. And I think that those out of foundations for a really, whether you're a leader or in leadership, I think the principles and the values that I've got growing up are part of me. Yeah. But how was it for you to grow up in different parts of the world? How was that experience for you? Yes, I love that question for me. Growing up, it was tough. From two different cultures, imagine what an incredible clash that is. When my parents came to Holland, they didn't speak the language at all, and how brave were they as a Turkish culture is an Asian culture. It's completely different values, and especially in those days, I'm talking about 50 years ago, I came to Holland when I was five. And when it was tough, it was between two cultures. What we saw at home was different. We would speak Turkish and my parents obviously wanted us to grow up, but that culture, it's a beautiful culture. But then at school, we were speaking Dutch and the Dutch culture. It's completely different as a child, especially as a teenager. The grass is always greener on the other side. But what had happened later in life, I got to work and live in Turkey. My first business, I actually started in Istanbul, Faneena. So that's probably like an immigrant child's desire of going back to the roots. I did that in experience, actually living in Turkey myself as an adult. I could see what my parents were trying to accomplish and how difficult it was to toss that is, especially, you know, I'm a mother myself. Yeah. Later in life, I felt like such a wealth just growing up in two cultures, but as you probably know from my earlier discussion with you, I lived and worked in 10 countries. This is my 11th country. One of the things I want to talk about is confidence, which is not just to have us succeed, but also to feel good about ourselves, right, especially with your upbringing as you are sharing, you're not sure who you are or where you belong. When was the time when that confusion or that doubt turned into confidence is fifth? I have something unique. I have something more than the people who only grew up in world peace. How was that transition or when was that transition for you? Yes, that's really lovely. I really love that inside of you. Of course, when you're growing up between two cultures, it was a struggle all the time and the identity crisis of who am I? And I think I've got so many stories. One of the things when it clicked is when I went to university, I've studied economics. I went to France to do a Erasmus exchange. And funny enough, we were in the student campus and in my friendship, I think there were 20 different nationalities and people would ask, they look at me and they would say, "Hey, where are you from or who are you?" I would say, "I'm Dutch." I would never mention that I was Turkish. I would say, "I'm Dutch." And they would look at me and think, "This little brown girl, he doesn't really look Dutch." And that's where it clicked that I thought, "Hey, actually, you know what? I changed into my story." I said, "I grew up in Holland, but I'm from Turkey. I was born in Turkey." So that was the first time, so that was in my early 20s, that I really realized where I belong. And that, actually, it can live together. So I'm definitely Dutch, but I'm also Turkish and I'm so much more than that. And I think that gave me confidence even more. And I would also like to express here, Sumit if you allow me, the difference between self-confidence and self-worth. So I just recently read a book from Jamie Kern Lima. She's an American businessman, very successful, but start from humble beginnings. And her book is called Worthy. And for the first time, I understood the difference between self-worth and self-confidence. So I always thought I'm a self-confident person, but self-confidence comes from all external elements, external achievements, external successes, but also failures. Your self-confidence will go down when something builds. But self-worth is from the inside. And that's what we sometimes forget. We haven't nourished this. I put this in our culture and educate our children how important self-worth is. It doesn't depend on the outside circumstances. You are just perfect as you are and you are enough as you are. So I think that was worth mentioning. Yeah. Absolutely. Adding that self-worth is such an important thing which we often don't realize. More later in your journey, tell me about entrepreneurship or starting a company. How did that come along? How did you choose that? Yes. So, it's very interesting. I can remember the day I was nine, I was biking to school in Holland. And I would see we would live in a very humble house or children in one room. And then I would pass this big house on the corner and I would think, "Oh my God, I want a living house like that by as a child." And then the entrepreneurship, I knew that I wanted to have my own business for some reason. And it wasn't just about the money. I think it comes from the value of my parents that they always make sure that for us it was giving back, contributing, growing the community, being part of the community. And I was thought that having a business is giving back because what you do, you employ people. You employ one person. That person feeds the family. So it's all connected. So I saw that as a way of giving back by having a business. And my first company, I started at the age of 24. I was just graduated. I had nothing, no money, but I had big dreams. And so we make that in a couple of years, in three years, a very successful multi-million dollar business. And we had about 50 employees. And that's why it was making me so proud because I thought all of these families that we're helping and feeding and making sure that they thrive in life. So that was contributing to have that bigger power, a bigger purpose than just making money. I often say that nobody comes out the same person after entrepreneurship. So can you speak a bit, right, before and after the company? How did you change? How did you evolve? What parts of you that you adopted? What parts of you did you let go of? Wow. That's such an amazing question, never been asked that question, but it's true. Because when I went into that, I was 24. When I came out of it, even after those three years, I thought in the three years, I learned and I grew and they got older because they felt like 30 years. That's how much I learned and I made so many mistakes in looking back at it. But I also made amazing things happen. So how did I come out of it? I think, first of all, I thought I grew up so much and maybe I became so old. That's one thing. The other one is that I think I changed my perspective on people a lot. I think people think business or having a company or entrepreneurs about making money and all these external things. But actually, it's really an internal journey as a founder because it's like a rollercoaster of emotions you get through the high highs really low lows. And like you said, no one talks about this. Exactly. Yeah. So, taking it fast forward to today, right, with all of these life experiences, can you share what is it that you stand for today and what it is that you're building that you're working up on, what keeps you going everyday today? Yes, I think all of that has taught me that I am still an activist today because my passion is still there. I don't have to build businesses myself right now that really passionate about female founders that is my sweet spot because I think there's so much potential that we're not using. And the number speak for themselves, right? There's so much research. How women lead differently, not that I'm saying that men don't get me wrong at all. But how much of that is getting lost because of so many different reasons. Women have to stay at home, look off the children or for us, it's a more complicated journey. For example, I mentor a coach, a female entrepreneur in Holland and she's an amazing, wonderful woman. Has got four children under the age of 10. And as a business for five years now, thriving, multimillion dollar business. But imagine the impact that it has, giving birth at the same time as growing your business. Not just having children like men have to do it, they come home, that's the family, they go out, it's the business. No, women do it, it's all integrated, but it has a huge impact on the person. But yeah, that's really my passion that I really see that. And on the other hand, also in the VC and investment space, as the numbers also speak for themselves, only two percent of all the funding goes to women. So I help women in the fundraising journey, make sure that they will get in front of investors. Yeah, I love that word passion, right? It's something of the heart. And then the heart is always in a conflict of many times, it can get into the conflict with the brain, with the mind, sees. So I want to just ask you on that, once you see that passion, where do you still not give yourself permission to do something which your passion is already, you know what I think it is calling you. That is a deep question, Swimit. I think you go through life in different stages, isn't it? In your 20s, it's about that first career move, in your 30s, it becomes a family. So I'm in my 50s right now. And I speak to other women as well, obviously, in a 50 plus. And this is actually a wonderful stage to be in, because finally, we have the guts to speak up. Finally, we can take the mask off. There's no need to prove ourselves anymore. I wish I did that when I was younger. My first business was a software company, so I was in tech yet, and imagine 30 years ago, I acted like a man because I thought I couldn't be a woman or because I would not seem speaking about leadership. I was leading a huge team at IBM, all men at the age of 15. I was the youngest and female director they had in the head of this is in IBM, Europe at the time. I thought I cannot show who I really am. One of my bosses at the time, I'll never forget in our yearly assignment. He came to me and he said, "You're doing a great job, wonderful, everything." I would just recommend one thing. He said, "Why don't you show more of your vulnerability?" And he said, "I'm in my late 20s. I thought you would never say that to a man. Why would you do that because I'm a woman?" And I thought that's quite negative, perceived as negative. But now afterwards, I look back and I thought he was trying to tell me, like, be yourself, and it's okay to be boldly bold, and that's where the power comes from, especially as a leader. I think it's really important. Absolutely. I think you're telling on something very important and deep, right, that vulnerability is a strength. It's authentic and that by itself is so rare in the world today and it's a move for both men and women. It's just being real and just being honest to be yourself and not trying to be somebody else or that mask that you mentioned, thank you for adding that. Now given the future that you want to see, what do you see here as the biggest challenges you face today in the world only? I think I'm quite lucky to be in a sector, especially when it comes to VC investment and in that space fundraising. I always say to my partner, there's doom and gloom in the world and then there's this world like there's money and not just money, but people want to invest and they believe in others. And then you have amazing founders and startups with great ideas, young, old, whatever it is across the world. I get to see that. So that gives me a lot of confidence that there is such an important task for all of us. And I invest particularly in impact businesses. I believe in that whatever business you're doing, you have to do it for having an impact. That's the environment, social impact, economic impact, whatever it is. So that's really important. And I do see the new generation is very switched on and they're trying to find solutions for the problems that we're saving nowadays. And then I have my own daughter and then I see that generation, she's 15 right now. Also, how is her future going to look like? And I think that what we just touched on, it's not just about the external things, but if we can teach our children and our younger generation now, unfortunately our education system is not like that, we're still teaching the maths and history and stuff like that instead of about the person and spiritualism and spirituality and business can go together. When you say to me you have to be authentic, that's a big plus. So those are the things I think and it's moving, there's a shift towards that. Now as a leader CEO or businessman, business woman, you don't have to lead as yourself. And I think there's amazing examples out there. What is it that you find most challenging in your day to day, right? As you live day through day, what catches you was applied, where do you really are on your toes? Oh, I'm on my toes quite a lot. I think in the day to day challenge, it still is like if I look at the founder's space and I look at the founder's businesses that want to grow. And then specifically in my case, I help a lot of female founders that they really struggle to get that funding. They really are competing a lot with men and I am not giving them the men default because it's quite the system. People like you and me, you always have to have an affinity. So if someone on the other side, let's say an investor does not see me as who I am or I don't see that person, this whole thing is a people's business at the end of it. So what we need to get is more investors as female on the other side are you as angels or VCs. So those are things that I'm struggling with because I still hear female founders saying, hey, I've got this meeting with an investor, but should I take a man with me because it's incredible that people are still thinking like that. So those are the things that I'm struggling for the day to day basis. Yeah. Something about yourself that you do only for yourself. Oh, I am so good to me nowadays and I have a routine every morning, I meditate. I do my yoga and that's just early morning, up at six, time for myself for a whole hour and I get to be and instead of doing and I read somewhere the other day and I thought interesting because we are called human beings, but we're doing a lot with being human doings. So I'm trying to be more a human being, especially that morning routine where I'm in touch with the universe, I bring in my spirituality is really me time. Yeah, it's almost like you're stealing my language because most of my work with leaders as they scale their companies to new heights is not on what to do, but how to be how to be yourself. What is the calling for the being side and then they're doing figures it out automatically, but if you focused on doing what the being doesn't support that, no strategy or no tactic can work because who you are being is exactly a positive to what you're going to do. So can you speak a bit more about that? So you say you take an hour in the morning to just be right to be with yourself, how does that impact you're doing, how does that help you are doing both in terms of doing what you do, but also saying no to what you don't want to do, how does the work on the being allows you to do or not do better? Yes, that's a good question to me. I came into this space about 10 years ago right now in my mid 40s and I've been doing I was just going to say, reading a lot about personal development and that's obviously a very thing, but it has taught me my spiritual path because I completely believe in that we're not just a body and mind, there's a huge soul in there and that's what we're forgetting. So in my journey, in my personal journey, I can only speak for myself obviously that's really, I think, has been such an impact on my personal life, on my well-being, I let's mentally, physically, emotionally, but also obviously impacted my work, my business and everything else that I'm doing. So how does that impact because if I, it impacts the way I perceive the world, the way I perceive people, it makes me, if I have peace and harmony inside of me, that will obviously have an impact on the outside world as well. Thank you for adding that. Just a last few questions before we wrap this up. What is it today that you feel the most grateful about? Today specifically, I'm very grateful for my parents, my dad is having an operation today so it's an emotional day and I'm praying that he will be fine so I'm very grateful to us still have my parents in my life and my family. There's a lot of things that break my heart. I lived in Africa twice, I lived in Asia multiple times and obviously I know from Turkey, there's a lot of poverty out there, that is something that's really close to my heart. I also have a charity in South Africa that I started a couple of years ago and I'm supporting and we're helping mainly young children because the children are the future. That breaks my heart when there is poverty and children don't have the basic needs of food which we in the Western world obviously take for granted. Thank you for sharing that and thank you for this wonderful conversation. For anybody who's listening before we wrap this up, what is the best way for them to reach out to you or to find out more about you? The best way is I'm also a social media on LinkedIn, you can reach me on LinkedIn and Hanim Dogan Jane, that is my full name and I think through your podcast, isn't it? Absolutely, I will include those links with the show notes but as we wrap this up I would like to just thank you for the work that you do but also sharing a lot more about yourself today. It is who you are, comes before what you do. So thanks for sharing that and as we end this, I want to wish you all the best for everything that lies ahead for you and the world who will benefit from everything that you're doing. Thank you so much to me. I really appreciate what you're doing as well and I won't talk about leadership but that's more on a rational way, I think leadership is emotional, it's spiritual and we should integrate all of that because that's who we are. Thank you. That's it for this episode of Choosing Leadership. Here is what I want you to know, you are capable of so much more than you currently think that you are and that is not because I have all the answers. That is because I have lived it, I have gone from hiding behind a comfortable tech career to building companies, coaching CEOs and standing for impossible dreams like taking India's volleyball team to the Olympics. If I can live an impossible life, so can you. Life isn't about working harder or doing more, it is about being more, it is about having the courage to ask what do I actually want and then going after it on apologeticery. So if this episode hits you, if it resonated with you, share it. Like someone who needs to hear this, tag someone who is currently playing smaller than you know that they are capable of. And if you are a leader ready to play the biggest game of your life, if you are ready to make those 100 million jumps then reach out and let's talk about being a guest on this show. Do not forget to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. Your ratings and reviews help more leaders find this show if you want to go deeper, visit TenGenPartners.com or find me on LinkedIn. As again, remember, comfort is the enemy of greatness, mediocrity is a choice and so is excellence. I am your host Somit Kupta and until the next time keep listening, keep choosing leadership.