Lawes, Morgan & Quirke: The New Signings

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No, I don't think I ever have. You've always been a BBC? I've been in the BBC since I was 22. Surely you'd like a test to announce. I've only been there six years. Six, okay. Wait a few more than we'll get there. I did have jobs before the BBC. I'm sure you did. Yeah, paperboy and all that. Yeah, paperboy, yeah. Shop, court cover at Wimbledon, bar work. Didn't go so well. Couldn't see over the bar. I'm sorry, I was terrible. Why don't you keep leaving club personality thing? Anyway, we've got some great guests coming up. I haven't got a quick answer for you all. But I do think it's always very interesting. We look ahead to the new season. We've moved in some clubs with huge turnovers, look at Newcastle, we're actually coming on the pod sale. We're here at Carrington Courtly Laws, is on the way. Who are you most excited about seeing? That's either new to the league or someone that's gone out and come back in. There's not one thing I don't think. I think there's quite a few teams that have had a lot of change. Newcastle, we don't know how that's going to go, because there's so many. Here is 17-ish, but I think there's a different caliber of player that is here. They've got a generally more experienced and international players that have come in, which is different again. We haven't really mentioned Saracens, but they have got some big sign-ins. And a new coach, who's taking down Brendan Venter. It's hard to nail it on one. There's a good way I mentioned Alfie Barbary and Thomas Williams in between the leagues. There's a lot of change in the leagues that could have really big impact. The other thing that surprised me is we haven't had a real world-class player come into the league, which we have in New Zealand. I mean, I start out like you, Jack Morgan, and someone like that, Thomas Williams could fall into that category. But because Thomas Williams ought to be in the league, because Jack's well, she's very familiar. You mean sort of like olden days when Curly Beale or William LaRouge joined Wasp's? Well, he don't even need to go about that. Pollard at Tigers. They're also going to Bath. Favre to Claire coming here. He was saving like Jasper Vista. That's where the recruitment's so interesting, because when Vista was signed for Leicester, Favre was signed for Sale. They became into. They became. They were forced to have to keep nailing it, because they keep basically outsourcing players for other clubs to sort of hone into international. Yeah, there's just not been. I mean, maybe it's a sign of the clubs that haven't had the massive change. They are happy with the squads, and happy with what they've got, and want to keep that squad pushing forward. So surely that's a good thing for the club and the team to not have the necessary bid of a big spending player come in. Yeah. I suppose also Bristol and Bristol signed Pyrrta, semi-radrider was. Ristler stopped that, haven't they? Yeah, but I don't think Red Rider worked. I think you. I don't think for the money they paid. I don't know, for the first two years. Compared to what he was doing standing. I don't know, compared to what he was doing. Oh, no, too long. Too long. I mean, Charles Pyrrta, we knew was a superstar from his. His wasp stays. I think it's obviously a big decision these clubs make. They could go and look for a real superstar. What happens if they don't settle? What happens if they don't hit the ground running? And then some go, right, if you're Saracens, they absolutely know Alfie Barbary. It's a. it's a prem star. They know Thomas Williams, the prem star. Look at what sail have done, Joe March. We know how good he was at Quinn's, and Courtney Laws is Courtney Laws. I think Jack Morgan, who we're speaking to soon on the part, I think that's such a great sign, and they'll be late as well. But I think Morgan is someone who, if Gloss took and get some form, seeing him and the team, perhaps playing Champions Cup on a regular basis, they're playing the tournament opener against Bordeaux. So, there's. I take your point. There aren't maybe, you know, the Audi Savares coming in, but there's still so many good players that have come into league, but particularly move between clubs, which I think makes it really interesting. Yeah, I reckon if you put every team down, you could see quite easily the clubs that are using their academy and the clubs that are relying on Simon's that are coming in next year. The ones that are using their academy are obviously back in their academy, because they're confident that they can fill those spots. And other teams that have had all this mass signings coming in are not getting the fulfillment out of their academies, which they probably would like to be doing. So, here we go coming up, we've got Rafi Quirk, we've got Jack Morgan. But first, Courtney Laws, a man who's been a couple years in brief, still going at the age of 37, still with a load more to achieve. Here he is. Five lives, Robby Union Weekly. We've made the trip up north. We have. And a very uneventful train journey. Do you know what's like Courtney? Actually, he can find a way of getting into fights in an empty room. So, when I knew I was getting a train up with Ashley, I thought, okay, we're going to. So, I heard the music was starting to work. The guy played music where I could sense he was starting. No, you couldn't. And the guy on the phone, I sensed he was starting to go. And then you almost lost your phone out the cab. But we're here, and we got Courtney with us. Just grafting, aren't we? Welcome to Courtney. You didn't fancy the launch day, no. You weren't invited. I wasn't invited, and no, I didn't. Okay. Yeah, we noticed. So, we'll come to you, mate. Did you fancy them when you were prior, or not? No, exactly. What's brilliant about this, Courtney? Actually, now being part of the media, is he forgets what he was like. No, I don't. No, that's absolutely wrong. Let me finish my sentence. We would be saying at the England camp, and he would go, "Wow, we're going in, maybe we're going in so long." And I'd be like, "Well, did you always come to media on time?" He was like, "No." So, what did you do? You said, "Sat on my bed for an hour?" And then we'd down to media. So, you admitted that you would sometimes be an hour late, but you didn't. They don't understand it when they are. I think that it's better in operation, no. So, I don't know. I ain't been F2 years, so. It's better, no. Okay, good. It's definitely better now. We just wait 10 minutes for you. Well, we just wait to finish a food. But it's better now. I know, but this is my only bit of social contact that I get with people kind of on the same wavelength as me. Yeah. So, which I'm saying you're normal, I'm not. Right. That's what I'm saying. So, if I can have people that are remotely on my sort of understanding. I like spending time. I get carried away talking to them. So, I am sorry that I'm too many. No. Too many is late. But I have come all the way up here for you cause it's all right. Are you only doing it in two of me? So, that's enough. You were more than that. Let's see how it goes. How good is it to be back in England? Yeah, it's good. Yeah. Very much enjoying it. Speaking the native language definitely helps. And. It's for what? Everything. Absolutely everything. But, no, it's been good. It's good to be back in an environment that you're a bit more used to, to be honest. Yes. Is it a native language? Yeah. You do. We've got a couple of Welsh boys as well. Nicky's very difficult to understand. But I'm quite good at that. I'd say. I'm one of the better ones. Boys are definitely finding a harder to me. So, sometimes I'll translate for them actually. So, it is actually a bit of a lot coming from France. Being away. But no. Yeah. It's good to be back and it's been a good. Does that mean France was a struggle? I wouldn't say it was a struggle. You know, I'm like I'm pretty relaxed. No, I said that before you went. I said, I think I said it'll still be testing. But you can probably find out yourself. It was. It was testing. But, yeah. I was just about sure enough to kind of get on with it. I enjoyed it. It was fun. It means I'd have lost the plot within a week. I don't think you'd have done one. So, be honest. He lost it two years ago. You won? You were one, weren't you? Yeah, he lost it. It's the best club in the world at the time as well. Yeah. We're the load of English speakers. Can you give us a little insight to an example of just something that we might not see as normal operation which they would find completely normal? Oh, man. I don't want to do anyone in. I've left on really good terms. Yeah. Don't say in a negative way. Okay. Say an example of something that you did that me and I go, "Right, okay, that's a funny way of doing something." Okay, fine. I'll give one example. So Rosemary, her is ankle. He thought it was quite bad. They didn't. So we rehabbed it for the weeks of the doctors told him to rehab it for and he didn't get back in time. So they scanned it and then he had an operation shortly after. Okay, so they live in hope more than. I'm not saying anything. That's just an example of something that would be different. They want to try and get their money. They want the on the pitch as much as they can. Yeah, of course. Find a way around it. It's just run a bit differently. But you must have enjoyed some parts of it. Yeah, I love that. It was really good fun. The group of lads there was awesome. I'm really gone with them. And being like a bit of the one that's moved somewhere, having been an offampton where I was at my whole career, I actually really liked the social side of it and getting to know people a lot better and going out my way to spend time with people that when you're just kind of in your bubble around your family, you just do, you know, you're getting to your normal routine and whatnot. But it's quite cool to actually be one of the other guys, so I enjoyed that side. But it was a good life, a good life out there, you know. And you were saying before we started recording, your four kids, all of them speak the youngest ones, especially great French already. They all speak French, yeah, the older two are actually. So we've got. Now who's our oldest? She's nearly 13 and she's completely fluent like the best French speaker out of all of them. But he's 11, he's good, and the twins are. They've got a really good French, definitely weaker than Nell and Ted, but it's been very good for him. That's amazing, they just picked it up. I saw Bruce Rihanna's boy a few years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's accent was French, fully French. One of his. He was at the town. Old ones, oh yeah, yeah, fine. Yeah, he'd be 15, 16-ish, and he spoke in English in a French accent. Oh really? Yeah, he blew my mind, I was like, that was Bruce Rihanna's kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he was in brief. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I think it might have been Harley, you saw. But Bruce was there, so I played like Paddle with Bruce a few times while I was out there and whatnot, and we got on with their family, so we spent a bit of time together. Well, they haven't got French accents. No, Bruce is like, good, yeah, they're all good French speakers, but obviously their kids are completely fern, yeah. Yeah, that's amazing, obviously. Quickly, kids can pick it up, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm the first they can get, definitely. How good their French could be. I often get a stick on the pod because I sort of, when players are in there, later 30s, I say, oh, they might be coming to always the end of their career, and then in Azure, it's good. No, you thought retiring people. But when you left into the sunset at Twickenham having won the title with Northampton a couple of years ago, I think most people may have assumed that a couple of years in brief and then retirement. So, A, did you think that would be the case? Did you expect to be playing still two years on and see how do you feel? Yeah, I don't know if I had any expectation. I suppose I could have seen myself doing it two or three years in France and then kind of calling it a day. I think a lot of people would have expected me to go to France and just tail off and go there for the money, and the money was great and all that kind of stuff. But I've never like, what I'm going to do somehow, I'm going to do it properly. So, I went there, I tried to continue being performing at the level that I'm used to, and for the most part, I was able to kind of do that even in different circumstances and around different people. And it just so happened that kind of the league is set up whereby I basically didn't play more than three weeks in a row. A lot of times I'll play two weeks, I'll get a rest, play two weeks, and then another rest, you know, you get two weeks off of Christmas and another two weeks off in February and it's all hunky-dory and you get to play a lot of party, and you live a really good life kind of thing, and the rugby becomes a lot easier when you're not getting back every week. Is that help because you would give two? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly that. Yeah, so I think it probably probably on my career a little bit and towards the end of, I suppose it was towards Christmas, to January, February, then the last season where I was kind of like, well, what do I do? I can retire, I can look to stay on for another year in France, or there's a couple of offers from the prep. I was waiting for Breeve to give me a kind of figure and then I could make my decision there and turn it up. Why, why are you sailing? From both sides, right? Yeah, why would you want to come here and why do you think sail would like you to be here? A big draw for sail for me and my family was my wife's family is from around here, so there's only a couple of clubs. I reckon I'll go on to potentially Bristol mainly because I'm best mates with like Genji, here and obviously Saints. But my miss is family being around here. I'm living on the farm with my in-laws at the minute, just made it. Kind of feel westies up here and stuff like that, so it felt a bit kind of full circle. I could represent the other side of the family. The kids are literally going to the same school as my wife went to. And then if we move back to Northampton, they'll go to school, I went to and stuff like that. So it kind of felt right and I wasn't ready to retire essentially, so I felt like this was my best option. And I'm quite happy I made the decision and in terms of sail, I think they obviously westies was kind of keen to get me over. And then they had to look at my footage from the games I was playing and did one on that. You know, the levels a bit of a step down is probably, I'd say the top four teams could probably swing it in the bottom half of the Prem. Improved to do it, but it's still a tough place to go and play. So you know how to look at the footage and decide if I was still a bit of life in the old dog. And on that note, how ready do you feel for Prem Rugby? And then the next question is, if it goes well at Prem Rugby, how ready would you feel if you got an England call up again? Yeah, I'm feeling really good. I've had a good preseason, I've been able to train almost 100% of the preseason. I don't think I've missed much at all actually, which has been great. In fact, I missed one day, it's all I've missed because we had a paddle tournament the day before. And I got to the final, it was really difficult actually, ran a lot. I was actually blowing it. You wouldn't play the singles, you don't play paddles the singles, were you playing the singles? No, doubles, yeah. So you're playing, who are you playing with? I was playing with Dom Hanson. And we were playing against Joe Carp's and Simon, the owner. But it was a really tough game actually. Did you let the owner win? No, it didn't bother us. We played for a couple of hours, and it was actually like the last game was quite difficult because it was quite high standard. So yeah, I missed one day of training. Did you win? We won, yeah. You won, yeah. So it was worthwhile. So you won and then missed training the next day as well. But only to be fair, they were like, you run so much better. Yeah, it's a good workout. So you're ready to go. When was your last cap for England? Well, World Cup. World Cup, South Africa. Okay, it was up for a long time then. Yes, for ever going out. Well, it's literally three years, nearly coming up to it. Well, can you remember what that was like at that time? Yeah, I remember. Good Steve was there then. Steve was there. Yeah, yeah. And what, it ended on good note. Well, I mean, we did a lot better than people thought we were going to in the World Cup, and we were in early beats at Africa. On a personal level, I was quite happy that I performed during the World Cup, and yeah, I mean, it felt like the right time to retire. To be honest, but yeah. And have you spoken to Steve since coming back? I've spoken to him a little bit. Just kind of what I would expect. Like he knows I'm coming back, he's going to keep an army on that, but he wants to see me play in the prempers. And I think that's, that's a good order. Yeah, because there's a lot of alignment camp is there next week. I think so. Yeah, you're not going to be on that. No. His message is, yeah, let's, let's see how you go. Yeah, definitely. You, you think the same. Yeah. Yeah, I don't, I don't think. Until you get going. Regardless, like, I've spent two years away. Let's see how I go in the prempers. I'm not really thinking about England before I can get up and running for sale. So that's, that's, there's no point. Um, so here. Obviously really disappointing last year. Yeah. Do you think, oh, do you think you can help? Or I'm sure you already are, but I hope you've done that so far. Yeah, I mean, I've tried, you know, the best I can to. Parts of my experience and things I've learned over the years. Um, I've chipped in as much as I can in terms of that leadership role and. Game management, all that kind of stuff, but generally I'll just try and be myself and. Uh, lead by example, train hard. Um, do the work and then, you know, good things happen. It must feel for speaking to players who have been here for a while. They've commented on how many new signings there are. Things of 17 new signings or something. So is it a bit of a black, blank canvas here in some ways? Try and work from what's been good when they've reached premp finals and semi finals last few years, but also a huge chance for guys like yourself and. Nikki Smith Alex is off ski. Tom Francis plenty of players can come in and. Really step their mark. Yeah, definitely. I think. Actually, I suppose a lot of it seems to have been developed over a last season. I think they learn a lot and obviously I don't think they probably. There were a bit of a lot on the ground, should we say in terms of their players. And then on top of that, they had tons of injuries. So you do learn a lot when you're under the caution. I think they'll try to. Make sure that they learn the lessons going into this season. So it doesn't necessarily feel like it's a completely new environment. It does seem like the team has got a good sense of self and what they're about, or at least what we're going after. And it's just, from my point of view, trying to build on that, trying to add to it. And any takeaways I've got I'm trying to be as honest as I can with the coaches or players or one on. Yeah, I do what I can that way. And when you'd be watching on from afar, the England sea, what are you made of them? Yeah, it's obviously been pretty up and down, more recently like after the, I think it was the autumn, that unbelievable autumn and then struggled in the six nations kind of thing. But I don't know, man, this is, it's hard to know exactly what's going on in camp. Obviously, there's, I don't know, some issues. Otherwise, they'll probably be playing a bit better than they are. And with the squad they've got, they should be doing quite well. So, I don't know, it's not my job right now. No, of course, but I just wonder when you are as experienced as you are both at club and country level. When you're in an environment, are you of the mindset that you're just going to be straight and as honest? And if the coaches, whether it's here, whether you get back with England, if something's, you don't think it's quite right, because we know you were prepared to, you know, 2022 when you were captain, there were times when you'd push back to Eddie. Is that, is that really important when you've got the experience to make sure you really use it? Yeah, 100%. I think that's the only way. Nowadays, you can run a good team as if you have a good honest leadership team. And it can't come from not one person making decisions like you've got to have a good group of players that understand the team, understand the environment, understand the coaches, and what we're trying to get out of each other. But essentially, your leadership team is the bridge between the coaches and the players. So, if you can't be honest, and I'm not saying this is what's happening in whatever, but if you can't be honest within that, that leadership group, or you're not given the appropriate feedback to the coaches, or the coaches are not listening to your feedback, then you're going to have issues. So it's such an important part of the game of the minute. Come to finish, what ground are you looking forward to going back to? Everybody's asking that. And obviously, like, I'm looking forward to being able to play hopefully, if I get there, one more time at the garden. When's that fixture? Circle that in the calendar of it. I know we're playing them in Star Jam, but I don't know if that's home or away. I look, I'm not a person for. I'm not bothered. I'll play with you in front of me, can't I think? You would just go wherever they do. Yeah, you thought when you were there, they'd go and keep winning as they have. Same. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. They just brought so many players through the Academy. Like, flipping and like, God knows what 70% of the team is probably through the, all the internationals, apart from maybe Fin Smith, that literally have come through the Academy. So they was like 15 to the 23 in the final. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. And because they're doing that, they can, you know, you get the players a little bit, reduce price. Yeah, yeah. To start. To start. To start until you're told you're worth a million pounds. But, but it does help if you're bringing players through the Academy. And then you've got boys like leachers, those before last season, nobody knew who he was. And now he's like one of the most important players in the team started in the final. And if you get a couple of them in your team, that saves you a bit of money as well. You know what I mean? So, yeah. And helps the culture, doesn't it? Of course. And that's why they're so well bonded. And it's probably good that they got rid of players like me who are from a completely different generation. And they can just crack on, you know what I mean? Balance is key though, isn't it? All these environments that you need that balance of personalities, balance of ages? Yeah, definitely. And, you know, we kind of, me and Alex and Woody and other boys Dylan and yourself would have played a part in helping these young lads grow up a bit quicker and become more experienced and better leaders, should we say. But, you know, they've taken on themselves their own for a playtime. Anything else you're looking forward to about being back? Not really, mate. The more kids. No, no, no, no. Like, youngest of nine now, mate. We're never going back into the fight. Yeah. You? No. I love it too much. Absolutely not. Yeah. They've moved up there, right? Didn't realise. Yeah. No, I thought they might still be doing. Go back to Nilehampton, mate. No, no. No, no. Where we go, we go together, mate. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's good. Well, great to have you on. Great to have you back. And yeah, look forward to the season. Awesome. Right, Courtney Lawsashi. Lost to talk about. Lost to look forward to when it comes to Laws being back in the Prem from a sale point of view. But also from an England point of view, how do you see? How do you see that panning out? Do you see him legitimately returning to England honours between now and then the World Cup next year? I get why we're talking about it because it's Courtney. There's not many 37s in any form of sport that we're talking about playing international. Mr. 37. How many players are 30? Well, Dionne Fere doing amazing things at 39, nearly 40. Johnny Sector, which is 30. I know. Completely in the long periods out and he was sort of late call up to this series. No, it would buff the trend. So how about some of those spring box forwards are aging, but you've said you don't see them winning the World Cup because their profile is too old. But it's interesting because you speak to other people who go, there is no doubt that Courtney lost plays that World Cup. He's clearly fully aware that he needs to be, he wants to perform for you. And you're not surprised and to hear the Steve Borthwick's gone. Let's see how you go before they bring him into the alignment camp. It's surprising, but it's surprising more if he'd got a straight call up with it. Yeah, because he's 37. He's been in brief for two years. So Courtney is under no illusion. He just wants to get back and play in prime. It's only because it's Courtney that we're talking about it because he's that good. We're talking about it in this way. Is it possibly can do it? We'll have to wait and see if it works out. My only other result is if it's for a World Cup only, and that's what Courtney's wanting to get out of it, get to the World Cup, get in a World Cup, give it another go. I don't know what sign that's sending. To who? Everybody. But it doesn't matter. We can't constantly talk about down the line. A World Cup, a World Cup. My up, I would be if someone's good enough to play. I mean, I would have probably played Tom Willis last autumn. Even though he might not have been part of the plans going forward, only because I think you pick your best team for the next test match. There's that there are enough young players. I mean, Steve Borthwick and the RFU, and we're speaking to Conor O'Shae later this week, they're always talking about needing more caps, needing more experience. I interviewed Steve Borthwick on the pitch after I lost Park, and he spoke about caps, even though Safrid lost almost 200 in the warm-up or the build-up with Coliseon etzbeth being injured. If Courtney's good enough, he should be playing for England. Oh, yeah, that's right. I don't see it as kind of all with 37, what would it say? He's not going to go past the World Cup. Well, that doesn't matter. The bit for me is, as you say, if he was brought into an alignment camp now, it wouldn't make sense. Not only because he's not played, but also because Courtney's only going to play for a certain amount of time left. Then you're blocking someone's path. If it's for the World Cup, I get it. I'm more minded to agree with you that if I was to bet aside, I would severe towards the fact that he is 37, and he's had two years in the second division of France, and we know it's a competitive area for England, that back row, and we don't actually know where he's at. And I think that's all indisputable. My bit is part of the reason Alex Anderson wanted me to be here so badly. Part of the reason Dorin West wants me to be here so badly. Courtney was his someone who had me saw it in that summer of 2022 when he kept in the side, and he did push back a bit to Eddie Jones over training, and how much they were training. Do England need? Sell too, but probably talk about England here. Do England need more of those characters? More of those people who, if the training isn't quite right, if the game plan isn't quite right. And we hear all the time things come out of England camp about the style of play and the role of the leadership group, and the direction of the leadership group. It's a constant theme in conversations that we all have with people close to the camp. It's Courtney lost someone who can come into an environment, give it to the coaches straight, the teammates straight, and improve that environment with his honesty, his candor, and his performance. That's why I would never write Courtney laws off. Even though the logic is he's 37, he's been playing in the second division, and we don't quite know where he's at. I agree with all that, so we'll have to. I'm sure we'll find out. It's a wait and see kind of job as we will. We will follow his progress sales progress very closely. On sale, we've got another big guest, another one of their big summer signings on the way. Five lives, Rod the Union weekly. Right next up, the new sale prop, there's a couple of new sale props, and a load of new sale signings. It doesn't really narrow it down, but Nikki Smith, who's such a wicked time at Leicester, and is now at the sharks, first of all, the change of club. Imagine a nice ever fresh start, having had a really good few years at Welford Road. Yeah, it was a bit of a tough choice, like I've really tried my time at Leicester, but when I had a Zoom call with Al, and explain the sort of vision, and the direction he was talking about, yw'n yw'r yw'r clwb yn yw'r yw'r ysio'r ymw'r ymw'r ymw'r ymw'r ymw'r ymw'r ymw'r ymw'r ymw'r ymw'r ymw'r Mae'r oes, mae'r oes, mae'r oes, mae'r oes, mae'r oes, mae'r oes, mae'r A lot of people have said that, yeah, a lot of people have said that, but to be fair, it's my second week. Small communities, their towns, everyone just looks out for each other and there's a lot of similarities. Yeah, and finally I've all mentioned that on the Zoom call and even just coming in the second week, it was quite lucky my first week was in Portugal, we had the in campus last week and obviously you chucked in the deep end a little bit, like you stuck with the boys, it's not really a escape, but it was a perfect week for myself. So we sort of chucked ourselves in, catching up with everyone and it's been an absolute breeze to be honest, because the boys and the coaches have been so welcoming and I think because they are so excited about the season ahead, it's a sort of got like point of interest then and yeah, it's been a really small process moving into this club. So yeah, I've been really grateful for that. We've got, I'm Rafi Quirk coming up on this episode who's moved to Newcastle again, a very huge turn over players that's clearly precious to kind of work on the team dynamics and the culture. Has that been a bit of a similar case here, have you gone the extra mile socially to try and make sure everyone gets to know each other? Well, like I said, I think it was, it was a good first week to have last week in Portugal, if you sort of in together, you trained together, then you go back to the hotel and then boys play cards, have food together and you know, on the days off and we had a part of the tournament and boys played golf. So you're just naturally doing stuff together because you just stuck together and I think that really helped and even me stepping in and a few international boys stepping last week, like you could see how tight the boys are and obviously some new sign has been there from day one and it looks like they've been there for five or six years. So I think that shows a lot on the squad and how positive it is and just how much of a good punch boys are because at the end of the day is that's all we are, there's a bunch of boys just stuck together, all went at the same thing and I think if we connect and clicked how quickly we have and like we show out on the pitch when we have dark times when we're a bit under the pump when stuff's not going well, that's when the character and the sort of togetherness of the squad shows so it's been really good so far. It's not very often that a player leaves a top 14 to a lower part of the league team. So are you able to play against Cell a few times last year? Have you told them what you thought was going on last year? Or do you know where you couldn't help them out? Yeah I think not so much big of a trouble with more little stuff flow like obviously the scram we talked a lot about that and like I mean that first year of less that we played them three times because obviously we played them in the playoff done well for a broad and I was like hell of a game so like and obviously yeah you know I was not hiding around with the boys with disappointed about last season and but I think a lot of it's been you've sort of mentioned it a little bit like the sort of say like how bad last year we were but it's just more of a mention but like how positive is going to be like I already said like it's a completely different squad you know I was like a lot of like you said a lot of transition with boys coming in boys coming out you've still got a core group of boys there and they still probably remember last year when you speak to them but I think a lot of like I helped a bit with the scram and I talk about that as much as you seem like a proper scram now. Yeah I do, yeah yeah it's all I could do with it because I reckon Leicester was a great place for a scram not I mean we cover a game at Wellford Road you just know that this straw that's this salt you'll get as the opposition from the Leicester Scram so you've gone from that environment now imagine trying to bring a little bit of that to sail where people like man we're going to go near this. Same with Joe Hayes it seemed like you brought you helped Joe so do you think there's a bit in that? I got a lot of Hayes really well and like that was obviously so like I felt we both helped each other on that and I would be I would hope I've helped him and he certainly helped me. So you want to do the same here? Yeah and I think moving on to that was sail it's like it's a lot of similarities with that like when you speak to the four two forward quarters they like how much pride they have in this air piece is very similar to Leicester like like how much they want the scram to be a weapon they're mold it's not hiding around that like we talk about a lot of all within the game but like it's sort of your brain butter you set piece and defense that that won't go away and yes we want to be expanding and we want to like evolve over the game but we haven't got those two areas which Leicester to be fair did like and you know we're not going to go far on and I do see a lot of similarities out like people do on a defender they do on a scram they do on a mall and I think boys are like do feel I see him out but take the heavy of the watch that they did in Leicester. So how easy is it or difficult is it Nicky to go from having got a little bit of a chemistry going with you know with Julian Hooker or Joe Hayes the tight head felt like you had this real chemistry going as a unit can you just jump across into a new scram and hit the ground running do you have to really work on working together as a group? Yeah of course it's it's a lot of connections you've got to you've got to build out obviously I'm lucky I've no Tom Francis very well so I know what he likes I know what he works with and not don't work with and then he got gyms and he got Dicky as well who to quality quality hookers but it is about connections it's going to be like it was a less so good times a bad times but the more we sort of work together then like you do have different combinations of training in and the more we work with that then you know when the heat does come then we know exactly what we want like why like what what the Hucklelegs at the tight head like and it does take time yeah of course it took time of Leicester but soon to click it clicks and and we're hoping the exact same atmosphere because the quality is there like we sat down in the front row meeting you look around and it's a lot of quality there like a lot of quality so yeah I'm pretty sure was going to be a good place to sit. And where can Ashra poke for sure where can he get to because England fans would have seen him win his first handful of caps he's now part of the enhanced elite player squad you're into your 32 he's a prop who's got only a few years under his belt and pro rugby where can he get to do you think? Yeah with Ashra like he's a he's a freak physically I mean like he's powerful he's quick he's you know genetically really gifted and he works hard for that as well so he disguised a little bit for him like I mean only only he's only a second box he was myself so we haven't really gone full noise on the scrum but even just the way he gets up well it's technique all right he's got the recipe to be a very very good tight head he's only young so you know you've got to take out Rapin just soldier is going to you know he's still raw but like when he gets a right I mean he's he's pretty impossible to move so so it's just just sort of keep hammering out that he is consistently like getting those right shapes every time talk to us about Wales a little bit how you feel about where they are at the minute and how you can keep taking small steps should we say to get back to where you want to be? Yeah it's it's a bit of trick one way because I felt the six nations we finished really positively like the last three games really like really as part of the little Scotland in the last minute like we should have won that island you know we I felt for a sixty-six five minute we were in full local trouble that against the top top team and obviously get the winnately I felt that someone was disappointed and I felt we won against Fiji yeah but you know if you've been brutally honest like we should have won more if we've played better and then the last two games and we were disappointed so I feel it's a small step back again yeah a little bit I do feel I've been brutally honest I think it's World Cup game which was very exciting and you know it was like everything sort of leading up to that and obviously we've got an autumn coming up now which is exciting free home games but yeah we like the talons all there it's just but we can't keep making excuses it has to be like we haven't got much time now what is it autumn six nations a couple of warm games and then you're in it so and the group we've got like is you know it's an exciting group that we felt we've definitely got feeling good out of so but we've got to start we've got to hit the ground running and I think a lot of boys including myself felt a bit deflated after summer tour I felt we didn't certainly get the results of the forms that we wanted but do you know when you're in a lester or you're here do the environments feel different or does it feel exactly the same you close your eyes you can be anywhere or when you're in the situation they're in do you feel the quality of it or the standard of it isn't quite there yeah if I'm being brutally honest like like I said like you like lester we had two good years two billion squads like obviously we haven't played the game yet but just looking around the personnel like it's you know it's stacked to be fair whereas we have had a big you know well making excuses we had a big transition in the last World Cup like a lot of key players sort of left that's got like bigs you've got George and off it's a lot of key players who have left but again it's not a school seven or cycles but I probably feel that we have we haven't really recovered from that yet like a lot of boys have had cups and more cups are better they're going to get used to that but yeah it is something that so it's pretty thing wrong - Yeah, it's hard to think about 'cause it's like the talent, again, it's talent there, it is talent there. Like again, they're gonna be biased on well, she's talent there. And you've seen the end of the Six Nations, but I think we say if it does mean that we're not good enough to have bad days, like we have to be on it every time. Like maybe the top teams who can't have a bad day instead of when we're not that, we have to be on every time. So when we're slightly off, we're gonna get punished. And I think that's the sort of mindset we have to have. Whereas like it was days of less than we were a little bit off, but we still had enough in the back in the basket to go. But we're not quite there yet with Wales, which is fine, but it's just understanding the difference out there is that we do have to be on pretty 90% every time really to get in the contest. And like it always ends up great, it's moments. Like if you're in moments and miss kick, miss tackle is what it is. But the more we put ourselves in those defying moments, those test match-winning moments, then we're gonna feel like we're coming on top more than we are losing up. - Yeah 'cause of self-fulfilling prophecies, isn't it? - You win more, get more confidence. - Yeah. - Get more winning experience. And then it all goes from there, doesn't it? And when you're in bit more of a losing rut, those little moments, you don't have the muscle memory I imagine to get through them. Like you do when your everyone's got 80 caps and they've won before. - 100% off, 100% off. - Great stuff, Nick, you're really good to have you on. Best luck for the new season. And yeah, we'll be following it closely. - Thank you, much appreciate it. - Good man, thank you. - Good guy, Nikki Smith. Some player, if he can bring a bit of that lester, that lester set piece to sail. - Yeah, I'm sure. - They're gonna be a force. - Just gonna open dramatically, yeah. No doubt about that. - The bits that, and we'll talk about this with Jack Morgan and Rafi Quirk. Courtney Laws mentioning how his whole family had moved up. His wife's from this neck of the woods. All his kids are in the same school. His wife's old school. Nikki Smith was telling us after the interview that he's travelling back and forth to Wales, a fair bit and his family are very settled in West Wales. That's gotta be a factor when you're moving club. Easy just to focus on the rugby bit from our point of view, but how the family's settled. - Certain times in your career. It has bigger effects, obviously. He's got three kids and a wife. Moving is hard, it's part of the game, but it is really hard, especially when you've got a young family's different for Rafi. No family and a girlfriend you're gonna move up. It's very different to, I did it towards the end. I know a lot of people do it towards the end because families are settled and you don't want to. - And because you deal might only be a year or two years. - Yes. - Is there any point if you move everyone from West Wales to Manchester, two years of school and then you're back again? You're better bet just to commute. You've got a day off in the week. You've almost had a day off on the weekend. - Yeah, the school situation is so stressful. It's just not worth it. - How did you manage it then? I'm not trying to, I'm not going to argue off that or go. So obviously everyone went to, no, Northampton, you all moved to Northampton. Sarries was close enough. You weren't about to move, right? - Didn't have kids then. - It's just a school thing. It's a nightmare. - Did they move too long with you? - Yeah. - No, she's only six months. She was only young. The other problem I came when I was in a little bit here, here is just so difficult to get kids to school. And then. - Well the Manchester area in North Wales. - And then moving back to where I am now. - It's just a battle. - You're currently moving. How far are you moving? - 10 miles. - 10 miles and that's a big move. - Yeah. - We're on about people moving. Hundreds of miles. For a year or two and you've got three kids that are in school, it just doesn't make any sense, does it whatsoever. Better keeping. I mean people do do it and it's got to be a whole buy-in from everybody that they want to go and try something else. But tends to be if kids are settled in schools, you don't move them. - Right, it's not worth the stress. So I can almost done why Nicky's doing it, but that's not easy, is it? - And different obviously for Courtney, 'cause he's gone abroad. So two they've had two years in Breed, they're coming back and then we'll go into the same school in a part of the world. They know really well. - Yeah, it's a part of the whole new signing play and movement piece that we don't look at as much as going, can Nicky Smith lock up a sale scrum? - Yeah. - Obviously gang, 'cause he's a class. - There's a lot more that goes in. Right, two more big names coming up. Two more players have fascinated to see how they get on in the new surroundings. Jack Morgan, on the way, but first, here's Rafi Quirk. - Five lives, rugby, union weekly. - There's not many players that are from the North that go more North. - Is that? - I bet there's not. - I don't think there will be that many. - I don't think there's many at all that have gone further North. Matt Wilson went less North than kids say. - Yeah, it's always one direction. There's not many that go up, mate. I think you started the trend off. - And hopefully you can keep pulling them in, mate, if Newcastle. - I'll think we can keep going further North. - No, no, no, no. - That's going to go into the road and it'll progress. But hopefully you can keep pulling them in. - Yeah, I'll pull them in. - Have you enjoyed it so far? - Yeah, it's been really cool. Just like new team, new players, new coaches, the whole thing's just like a cool, exciting new project. We're all getting aligned, but it seems like an exciting start, yeah. - Are you in one of these flats that everything's just done for you? - No. - All right, I've heard of these. Matt Wilson told me about this. Will you get these flats where they just like do you washing? - Really? - Yeah. - Had a bath and a restaurant and you could, yeah, you've hit the wrong place. You've gone for the big house, that's why. - That's what you've done. Have you moved in? You've got a miss, he's got a dog, got a house. This is what you've done in Newcastle. - Yeah, no, just me. - Just you, mate. - My girlfriend will be moving in eventually. Just me, just me for now. - Okay. - But it's been good fun. All the lands like live close by. And everywhere it's close to get to, it's like 10 minutes to go anywhere in Newcastle, which is a bit different to Manchester and London in place of that, yeah. - Right, so far, so good. - Was it a tough decision because you're a local lab from around Salem and you spoke before about boyhood club and how much you enjoyed playing there. It's a much of a bit of a wrench to leave. - Yeah, it was probably like one of the highest decisions I've ever had to make and I've had those conversations with people who have given me my first ever opportunity, leaving all my home mates, my family, friends from school and everything like that. It was a huge decision, but I just felt like I was at a point in my career where I needed to sort of have a new chapter and get on my comfort zone really. - Well, let's try and get to know. - No, but a man to talk to in a recession about that. - Yeah. 'Cause you had it, you had it a wiggin, you had it in Northampton, you had it in Surrey, so you had all these itchers, didn't you? - Well, they weren't necessarily litchers. - Okay, but anyways, it's not a good idea. - No, no, no, no, no. The point I've told you is for both of you, how do you know, and I suppose a lot of our listeners would have it in their jobs. - Everyone has their own. - It's time for a change, but you just get a sense to you. - Yeah. - Since you've got that, obviously you won't know what it was like before, but is it felt new? - I think, yeah, it felt massively new to me, but I think even for the lads that I've been there before, only a small thing, but they've changed the change rooms up, you've got new coaches, they're holding players a lot more accountable in sessions and feedback and all that kind of stuff. So I think even, and the fitness sessions have been harder. Everything's been so much harder. They're all a bit like, no, this is what we've needed. - Okay. Just not my way. - Just not my way. - To Newcastle like fitness-wise and stuff. Have you noticed the difference of the training and other? - The training, training very hard, just the same. - Yeah, I mean, all pre-season's a kind of similar, lots of fitness, lots of rugby. But I joined Lake, 'cause I was away with the thing and for a little bit. So to come in and see that the Newcastle has like, working really, really hard. I don't know, come from sale and Newcastle have been bottom of the league for quite a few years now. So I was expecting there to be lots of things that would needed to be like, changed or picked up on, a lot of feel like it's already happening, do you know what I mean? - But you must have, when you signed, have been encouraged by the vision? - Yeah, definitely. The whole plan speaking to the coaches and people higher up, it was just all sounded like they really wanted me to be playing back playing for England and pushing me to my limits. And that, to me, is like what I really wanted to hear. - But last year, that's what I'm trying to get out. We didn't necessarily see any of it. We saw a couple of changes. But it's only like since I've seen some social stuff and like the kit, and we know seeing, 'cause you've never seen it, so the sale, you've not gone out. We're not seeing too much change yet. But you are noticing change, even in the squad and in and around the place. - Yeah, definitely 'cause it's like 25, maybe two more 27, 20 new players. So, all these new players, it's mental. It kind of feels like, I'm not going to play for Barbarians, but it kind of feels Barbarians-esque. We all need to try and get connected as quickly as possible, both on and off the pitch. So then we have, I can understand it, 'cause being at sale, I was at sale since I was 15 years old, like growing up with players there. I know everyone's habits. I know everything about each other. Whereas at Newcastle, I don't know, I know a few people there from sale, but then I'm trying to get to understand everyone else. People have come from New Zealand, South Africa, Ireland, all over, so like, you've got people we've been playing in France. Everyone's culture is so different, so it's all just trying to get home, and then I'm like, the same goal, understanding each other, what makes everyone tick, and all that kind of stuff. It's been really exciting. Yeah, 'cause as we know, great sporting teams have a shared culture, don't they, and a shared direction? Yeah, as you say, if you had to have conversations about what you want, Newcastle Red Bulls to be. Yeah, we've had plenty of conversations, Dan McFarland's really led that in terms of the way we want to be, we want to be really exciting team. And everyone's buying into that, yeah. - And you mentioned England, how they are really supportive, you've got back into the set up, and you've been in and around it, but it's five years ago since you burst on the scenes with that wicked, twickening against South Africa, so those five years, imagine you've had some ups and downs on the kind of international front. - Yeah, yeah, definitely. I've had ups and downs, like, [BLANK_AUDIO] There's a selection injuries at like really crucial times, which has been really frustrating. And I feel like hopefully this move like really sparks the new starting all that kind of stuff. And yeah, I want to be playing for England again, that's my main goal, yeah. And you need, we mentioned it before, this part that you need your team to be doing well as well. And being just come off, you can play a big part in that. Have you phoned yourself being a bit more, maybe talking a bit more, just giving advice a bit more, being a bit more involved in and around the place? Yeah, definitely. I feel like there's lessons I've taken from sail or from England and I can then go to Newcastle and bring that with me and already feel like I can have more of a say and be more involved in those leadership chats or even just the way we're attacking or the way we're defending. I feel like I've got the experience now from the last five years that I can try and implement that in Newcastle and have a bit more of a say. You know the problem is with that, you just got to back it up, haven't you? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. You can't be talking about physicality and getting run over. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you've got to be, you've almost then leading it as well, which is good at the next stage of what you need. Yeah, exactly. It's easy, it's easy saying all this stuff, but yeah, exactly. You've got to put it on to the pitch. I do think that's what Newcastle needed, his players with quality players who are going to do what you're talking about and lead the team through. Yeah, yeah. Is there anyone who you've gone or he's great that we probably wouldn't know necessarily know too much about in the game? I'd say Paul Reyrecetti stones from the Hurricanes, Lucid Prop, but like a skillful as a back. Yeah, he's skillful and fast. I've been really impressed with him, he's a beast. Oscar Russia, young lad, second row. He made it, played a few games last season, but he's like super skillful, soft and physical. Right. Yeah, so a couple of lads. I feel like a few lads came out of it. Well, it's just with Fave, Finning and Arfeau, I don't really know, I don't know, I don't know how much. He's not there. He's not there. Yeah, well, I've been tied up with it all but yeah, we've spoken about what was happening there. I can't remember what the latest. I think we don't even know really the players going on there. Yeah. So if people just come to the door, you go wicked. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Join in. But that is genuinely like, you think that I'm always talking about you moving clubs. I'm not trying to do that, but when you join a club which is really, really settled, it's very different, I imagine, to when you're joining a club where it does feel really new. Have you had to go a little bit further on the kind of social side of things that getting to know each other's side of things because you are trying to start from scratch a little bit. It's a squad. Yeah, I feel like that because like so, we had a week trip to Austria which was really good to sort of spend loads of time with each other because no one's going back home to their wives and families and stuff. So spend loads of time with each other, a couple of good socials, we've had a couple of other socials anyway just like we can spend time with each other off the pitch. It seems like a group that is very sociable anyway is no like, if you went for dinner with the team, you wouldn't mind what table you sat on everyone was just good crack. So yeah, I know what you mean, it's weird because if you were to join a team that's established, there's already cliques as well. Yeah, so you joined Northampton with their core of England ladder to grown up together. Yeah, it's very difficult. It's very difficult whereas like we're all joined and it's like, for example, if there's an initiation from the whole team, it's going to be doing something else and not doing that. So hopefully there's not. Well, I mean, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn here but it's the best night out of the UK. And you've got some. And for me, there's not a comparable night out in the UK and Ireland. It depends what you night, what you want, what you descriptive night out in the atmosphere, like the night the place is open late, vibe, the overall package has been yeah, fingers are far. Oh, it's the best night out in the UK. I was going to say the world but that's going to, that's going to be fine. Yeah. Well, you're going to build a social and build a bond, I think you cast a good place to do it. Yeah, yeah. That's what we see on the picture. Yeah, hopefully. Good man. Thanks so much, Rafi. Five lives. Rod the Union weekly. Okay, actually, one of the biggest signings, the Prem has seen, I think, Jack Morgan, the Wales Flanker Jack, so good to have you in the league, so good to be at Gloucester no doubt. How have you settled in the first few weeks and months? No, thank you. It's been great. I think Gloucester really enjoyed being there for the last couple of weeks now so it's been great to be able to be in with the boys, being with the coaches, learn everything that's new with Gloucester and there's a good bunch of boys and a good group of coaches, so exciting to crack on and see what's he's on. How far is it from home? It's not too far, but it's far enough. That's the Welshman's description, right, how far is it? That's as far as you go, right, the Gloucester's just enough. It's like acceptable. Just in touch in distance. Okay. You can see the bridge. Yeah. See the bridge. It's about tools away from all of a sudden. Really moved to Gloucester? Yeah, moved to Gloucester. Yeah, moved to Chetlums. Because there would have been the temptation just to hammer the M4 if you didn't want to leave Wales, but you've. No, I think. You've got to make the break here. I think everybody would drive the M4 and all of a sudden it would be bad, you'd probably be so. I think it gives off a wrong perception as well if you're doing that. Yeah, definitely. We want to buy in and be up there and experience living up in Gloucester, so it was always a plan to move up as well, so I didn't think about commuting at all, so we moved up there and I don't know. It's nice to be able to do that, and the Welsh lot to be in in Chetlums, the difference at people, shall we say? Yeah, potentially, yeah. It's a. Well, I think it's a lot busier. A lot of people say it's quite a small city, but it's a lot busier than where I grew up when I was younger, but it's a bit of a change for us to be able to. Live in a place where you know, you can walk to a coffee shop and walk to different places to a shop, rather than having to drive everywhere, like back home. Because it's just a graphic work on talking about him wanting to make a change and for his career and for everything really, just feeling like it was time to make a break. Had it been something you've been looking at for a while, and clearly the problems in Welsh rugby and all the rumblings there couldn't have helped and would only have contributed, but for how long were you thinking actually maybe it's time to try something new? Yeah, it's obviously the opportunity came up to come to the Premier and to go to Glosser and it was an exciting opportunity as well and when I'm glad I've taken the opportunity to come here and you speak to everybody who's played in the Premier League as well in the past and they've loved the league and they've loved playing in there, so it was always something that I'd want to do at some point in my career and the opportunity came to join for this season and just made the decision to come and I'm quite excited to link up and play and try and embed myself as a player and everything, so I'm quite looking forward to the start of it. And did you and Dewey sign exactly the same time? Did you talk to each other through the process, saying let's go to the same place and make sure we go together? Not really, I always want Dewey to make the best decision for himself with rugby whenever that would be but. Has he moved over too? He's moved over as well. Yeah, so he's moved as well, so I did know that we had a meeting but nothing much more than that really, so I wanted him to make the message and for himself really and quite glad that he's made the decision as well. What's been your first impressions because you lost him last year play and how they went in the Prem, what's been your first up of the lads and the club and the setup of how has it been at Gloucester? Yeah, it's been good, I've been quite impressed with obviously the facilities there is great and how the coaches in the players make you sort of that facility with the training day and yeah, it was a tough season last year but there's been some recruitments in the coaches as well and I think it's a very positive environment in there at the minute and you can see how all the boys have been training over the previous season and over the last couple of weeks so how hard they've worked to try and get better and try to keep on improving and I think that's something that's going to carry on. What was your position in the squad at the moment because you're obviously going to be looking up to you and coming to you for an experienced leadership whatever it is. Are you already in and looking to do that is that just comes as you being in the squad part of the human nature of how you are? I start something that is spoken too much about with that side of things, I think it'll be a new to the environment, you also want to try and earn your stripes as well within the group and in the respect of the boys and there's been a lot of learnings over the last couple of weeks trying to learn everything new so it's been great to be able to have a couple of days on feel with the boys and trying to train and put everything we've learned onto the training field so it's just trying to integrate into the training, into the team and try and build from there and maybe that's something that will come from the experience but you also try to want to try and learn yourself and you know, learn your stripes anyway and blend in with the team and with everybody else. Is the milk challenge still a thing? It's gone. How's it? It's gone. I have you in this corner as well. You're hoping. I hope. You've heard it gone. I'm up in, I don't know if I will grow back if I'm honest. It's gone. So, because who do we have obviously out of Hastings or. Yeah, yeah. A couple, we've had a couple of Gloucester players who said last year, yeah, yeah, I've heard on the great fine it's gone. So what was it you had to drink a ludicrous amount of milk and then get your head shaved? Eight points. Eight points of milk, yeah. Oh, Chevy had. Oh, Chevy had. Yeah. I'm not a big fan of milk. But what would you look? You look good at that, say, Ted Renee. No, I don't think so. I got quite big ears. So it's like, it's like, it's like, you've done a different challenge. There's like a shared challenge. No, that's like a bit of a, like a fitness blast kind of thing that they've introduced. So we, there are certain boys, I'm not a chance to do it, but I think it's something that we'd look to do in and the boys have done. That's for everyone, not the new lad that is for just a challenge. That's just like, yeah, squad, squad challenge are doing it. But there is, you don't know what the initiation is. No, he doesn't want to bring it up because he's got a part of his face. Yeah. So he's just going to hide his head in the background. So what was that shared challenge? How does that look? Oh, it's just like a couple of challenges with flippantayers and some of my guys, but he workers it as a, as a pair, I think. So do you choose your partner? I'm not sure. I don't think so. The same period when every time I was the case, and the, yeah, you do. Yeah, and the props would always be together and they'd be coming last. Yeah, pointless. You got to be a partner, not, and it's something we spoke about on our episodes earlier this week for you guys who have got so much on, on, on your, you know, Horizon with club rugby and trying to make a big impression at your new club. But knowing this time next year, there's a rugby world cup and you're part of a Wales team that's sort of been rebuilding under Steve Towne. And he had some moments in the summer without, you know, perhaps getting that, that, that big win, how would you feel about the next 12 months and how would you sort of stop your mind wandering too far down the track when you've obviously got so much on your plate? Yeah, I've, I've, obviously, yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot coming on within the next year, but I've also been, try to be a big believer of, you know, just just trying to do my best and play my best, you know, for the club, and then because that's really where you get your first opportunity, it's for your club, and then if you're playing, you know, could be hopefully for your club, hopefully you can progress, progress from there. But, yeah, try and just be the best version that I can be and I'll see if try keep improving as well, well, well, seeing gloss and learn from the coaches that are there, from the players that are there, and yeah, look forward to what might come. And when you've had so long at one club, like you did with the, with the Ospreys, what's it like going into a new environment? And you know, you mentioned Dauy and a few are the guys who you would know already, but still it must be a very different experience going to the fresh changing room and having to find someone to sit and someone to talk to and all those things you took for granted probably at your last place. Yeah, probably, I was, I was pretty nervous of us in the first week, I got to be honest. That's good though. Yeah, yeah, it is good, yeah, but I was really nervous going in, but, you know, fairness, there's a group of bunch of boys there, so they made the move and the start in Gloucester really easy and, yes, it was exciting time, but yeah, it was a new bus, a new bus week for myself anyway. You must have known some money at Ospreys, but they signed about 15 Australians since you've left. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, some change knocking around, didn't they? No, there we are. But yeah, yeah, yeah, they, they, they, they are they've recruited a good few people and they still keep in touch with the boys and they said this train has gone well, so yeah, look if I'll just see you with the boys cause well, it's good to have a new challenge and just even having the feelings that you have, there was nervous feelings of doing something new and trying something new and it just keeps pushing you on, I think if it's the right time for you to do that change challenge, I think it's a good thing. Yeah, no, definitely. Is it a relief to be away from all the most rocky politics? Yeah, it's always there in the background, isn't it? But no, but like, yeah, it will be nice not to to play and train and not maybe having something in the in the background and you know, it's obviously not fair and on the players with everything that's that went on last last season and hopefully this year with the boys back home in the Ospreys and it can all be sorted and nothing really just disrupts their season or their training, but you know, like last year there was a good bunch of boys and the way they were able to pack it and move on and move on to the next game and and carry on training and performing the way they did was was brilliant really, so yeah, they were a close group of boys are able to look past what was going on, but yeah, it will be nice to not have everything like that in the background going on. Yeah, I like so many people who watch the program really forth, having you in the league and at Gloucester and following the season, so thanks coming on Jack, we'll see you soon. Good, thank you very much. Thanks, thank you. You think Jack Maul was going to go well, don't you? Yeah, I feel like you've got something and you've got an agenda there should you say. So when does an opinion become an agenda when you've got a Welsh connection? No, when you're when you're when you're laced with cynicism like you are. I think it's a brilliant signing. I think he's going to be class. I think he's going to suit the league incredibly well and I'm really I've said I'm looking forward to him going in a good team. We don't we can't say that for sure about Gloucester because they've been so fit for the last couple of seasons, but he's going to be playing champions cup. He's playing in the opening champions cup game against Bordeaux on the Friday night. So already, he's going to be playing in just a different kind of environment to what he would have had at the Ospreys. Do you want to do your minors? Yeah, please. I want to raise your Welshman. Okay, we haven't heard too much from him already. Thomas Williams. No, gone. Can't get it. Well, not Danny Lake. No, not Thomas Williams. A Welshman. A new signing to the league. The new thing's going to be there. Yeah. The signing of the season. Yeah. What about who I'm missing here? Oh, I'm so glad I've done you on this. Aaron Wainwright. Aaron Wainwright Elester. Yeah. Aaron Wainwright Elester, yeah, fair play. I think because that one got maybe got announced quite early. Yeah, I'm just going to make up for the fact that I've missed. Absolutely. And look again, again, a player who I mean, coming from the Dragons with respect to Welford Road, playing in front of a bigger crowd in front of a team that he's expected to win. And that's, yeah, that's why as much as those of us who love Welsh rugby would love to see the regions really strong, Ashley, and would love to see all of the best Welsh players playing in Wales. And Nicky to my fair speaking, so passionately about Wales, he clearly wants to be in Wales, but it's not ideal for them, is it? It's far from ideal. Not at least because they don't know the future of domestic rugby in the country. So to see these guys playing in a different environment, maybe bigger crowds, maybe in some cases, not the Scarlet's game in the Champions Cup last year, but in some cases, paying Champions Cup, I think we're going to see some of those Welsh players absolutely fly this season. Why, why, why, why in the right particular, just a good fit? I think he's a really good fit for the club, yeah. Yeah, everything what you said really about the crowd team environment. I just think he's just been great for Wales, isn't he? So to see him play every week in the preem, I think he just. And I don't know why, maybe because of what you said, it's been, it was a while ago. People have just seemed to have let that one slide a little bit, but I think he's got another big impact. I remember you, you were there having an interview with Warren Gatland off the, was it when he left Wales after 2019, before he came back? And he said Aaron Wainwright was a future lion, and maybe he's just been caught in that limbo land that. I think it really seems. I think I've just been on a bit. But pressure off. Yeah. And you'll be able to just go. Go and do what they do best. And if you know what it's like though, if they like you, like the gems, the players' demos, you're well there. Absolutely. No, so much to afford to. I've got so much coming up. We haven't touched on the Greatest Rivalry series, which we will in a couple of days' time. Three tests down in that epic showdown between the best two teams in the world. Conor O'Shea, who are going to go and see one of the Twickenham head honchoes? What would you like us to ask Conor O'Shea? If you're an England fan, actually you're a former England player with 20 tries in your under your under England belt. What do you want from him if you're listening in? Good question. I think it would be something that we talked about. We've touched on a little bit. Is the coaching, what is the right word? Pathway. Do you have a plan of that? Yeah. Yeah, it's not progression, is it? No, I think it's progression. Yeah, the thinking and what the plan is. Yeah. What's your plan for Phil Delsen? If there's no next, then great. We wouldn't walk up a huge government. But there's got to be something in the pipeline. And what does that look like? 100%. 100%. Because if Steve Borthwick, however long he's in the job, they need to make sure they're not sacking load of coaches and suddenly ringing around the whole world trying to find some new ones. Things need to be far more in place, don't they? Yeah, even for as a company or if you don't want to be on the path all the time, you just don't want to say Steve Borthwick's contract is up after the World Cup, and there's a change to be made, there might not be, there might be a change to the background team, there might not be. You'd like to think that all these quality coaches that operate in the league, there is a plan for them. Yeah, at some point. Or even just looking at someone like Phil, who isn't Phil Dosen, who's not quite international experience, is there a way that the system coach that that can be given somehow or as a plan or something? But the all blacks did for years. Yeah. Steve had some assistance Graham Henry, but we've never done it here, so why? No, because that but that comes back to a point, doesn't it? Yeah. There's some good, great, potentially great coaches operating in this league. How do you make sure that they develop, they win stuff with their clubs and they go on to coach the England team in some shape or form? I mean, I don't want to interrupt your high class question in the course. Who's going to be there and you're just going to dip, you know, like have a glass smash. when Stone Cold will come back. - No, there's a little gap in the windows. - Oh my god. - Oh my god. - No, that could be, 'cause I also did a day where your finisher would be, and you said it would be the stunner. So you know when the glass smashes and Stone Cold comes back, who can our interview, and it's like, oh, it's Chris Desk, Chris Ashton's music. - Who's the most stunning? - You're stunning me and Hugo and taking the mic. - Yeah, a dupel. - Taking the microphone, interview and corner, then stunning corner. - Yeah. - Zero percent alcohol beer. - Yeah, what do you mean? - Yeah, of course. - And just some eggs as well. They're chucking cans of course, light, to you, they're chucking boiled eggs, which you're peeling and then eating whole. - No, there's no Hugo, you're going first, mate. Kick to the stomach, you're getting stunner. - Stunner, straightaway. And then Hugo thinks you're on side, and then you stunner. - Did you name your favourite wrestler, no? - No, my finisher's like, it would be an RKO. And my daughter has the same finisher. - You must have had a favourite wrestler. - Probably my top, I'd have shown Michael's up there. I thought Kurt Angle was class, Kurt Angle was brilliant. And Mick Foley, I think it's a sort of, I probably Mick Foley, sure Michael's in Kurt. - What was Mick Foley's up there? - Nah, he was mankind, he was a cactus jack, and he was dude, love. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Anyway, we digress. - We did, we got way off. Ash Connor, well that's gonna, what your finisher move is. Okay, see you soon. - Bye. - Thanks for downloading Rugby Union Weekly. 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