Law on Contract

This is an All Ears English podcast, episode 2673. Conversation Coaching, part one. How long should small talk be? Welcome to the All Ears English podcast, downloaded more than 200 million times. Are you feeling stuck with your English? We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent by focusing on connection, not perfection. With your American host, Michelle Kaplan, the New York radio girl, and Aubrey Carter, the IELTS whiz, coming to you from Arizona and New York City, USA. How long should small talk last? And how much should you let the other person guide a conversation? Today, you'll find out the answer to these questions, along with tips for upping your small talk, game. There's a big difference between understanding English and participating in English. Understanding means you follow the conversation. You participate by adding your ideas, reacting naturally, and keeping the conversation moving. Many English learners are strong listeners, but hesitant speakers. Once you know your current fluency level, it becomes much easier, to close that gap. Take our free two-minute quiz to discover your level and what to focus on next. Go to allearsenglish.com slash fluency score. That's allearsenglish.com slash f-l-u-e-n-c-y-s-c-o-r-e. Michelle, are you good at small talk? I'm good at small talk, but there are definitely certain situations where I feel more or less comfortable, right? Is that the same for you? Yeah, definitely. Sometimes it's so easy, and it depends on the other person, too. Right. If they're not asking me anything or giving me nothing, that's harder, right? Everyone out there listening, I know you guys feel this. Small talk is a necessary evil. Yes. You meet new people. You have to start somewhere. And, you know, it's tricky. It does depend on who you're talking to in the situation. You can't immediately dive into interesting, deep topics. You've got to start with that small talk. Yeah, exactly. So today on this episode, we are sharing tips that will make you a small talk master. Right, Aubrey? Yes. You're going to learn how to read cues so you know how long your small talk should be and what to do in order to make it shorter if it feels too long. Oh, these are amazing strategies. We can't wait for you to learn them. So let's hear the episode. All right. Hey, Lindsay, how are you? Hey, Michelle. I'm having a nice day hanging out with you on the microphone. Yeah. Wednesday morning here. It's a great way to – it's right in the middle of the week. So it's a nice way to mark the middle of the week, I think. That's right. I agree. I agree. So – but I have a question for you. Okay. Do you like it when you're like at a – like ordering something and then the barista makes small talk with you? Well, sometimes. It depends on my mood. It depends on who's around. And it depends on whether like I just feel like I want to talk to someone. You know, it just – it really depends, to be honest. Yeah. What about you? Yeah, I agree. I mean, like in general, I love, you know, talking to as many people as possible. Yeah. You know, I think that's both of our personalities. But, you know, yeah, like if you're in a rush, busy, you know, things like that, it's hard to really take the time to do that. So… It's important to really be able to read people, I think. Like… Hugely important. Yeah. Yeah. What do we mean by that? To be able to read people? To read people. Oh, my God. This is empathy 101, right? I mean, this is empathy right here. It's like some people are better at this than others. But I think in general, we need a basic skill in empathy to survive in the world, to be able to understand what someone is feeling in any given moment and to know whether it's the right moment to step up and actually have a conversation with them or to leave them alone. Right. Right. Right. Definitely. Yeah. So, we're going to get into this a little bit more today. We have a listener question about this topic. But before we do that, guys, we want to remind you to listen to a very special podcast. Oh, absolutely. So, guys, remember, you want to go over. If you are going to be doing the IELTS exam this year, 2019, the only resource you need to start with is the IELTS Energy Podcast. Jessica and I are over there three days a week, and we're showing you guys how to get… Past writing, task two, for example, speaking part three. We're going to show you how to get a seven or an eight or even a nine on these parts of the exam. So, go and search right now in your podcast player for IELTS Energy Podcast and hit subscribe. Start listening Monday, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays. All right. Cool. Okay. Awesome. All right. Well, we said that we were going to get into a listener question. So, shall we do it, Lindsay? Yeah. I'm excited for this listener question from Odell Lopez. Here we go. Can I read it? Go for it. Okay. Thank you. So, girls, you don't have any idea or you have no idea how much I've improved listening with you. I'm from Venezuela, and I came to San Francisco a year ago. I've studied English, but I have a problem. Around me, there are so many Latin people that I can't speak English the whole day as I'd like to. But thanks for helping me. Cool. The second one, but not less important. Yeah. So, he asked the first question, but we're going to… We're going to focus on the second one. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's a good point. So, there's another question, and we always pick and choose the questions that we like that we think will be the most useful for our audience, guys. So, this is the one. So, while I try to improve my English, I'm looking for a job as a journalist. I'm working in a cafe bakery restaurant, and I got a promotion as barista cashier. I was the cook. I'd love to listen to vocabulary from you or suggestions on how to be nice with customers. Which are the best words or sentences for getting a small and nice conversation while I'm taking orders at the register and offering our best breads, drinks, and plates? Nice. I know I've asked for so much. I'm sorry about that, but you're my idols. Wow. Wow. Okay, cool. Well, I really appreciate it so much, all that you've done for us. Thanks. Hugs, Odell Lopez. Oh, awesome. Oh, that's so nice of you, Odell. We really… That makes me smile. And, you know, just as you appreciate us, we appreciate you. We couldn't do it without you, and we hope that we can be helpful. Yeah, and I also really admire Odell. I mean, it sounds like he's living in San Francisco, working to become a journalist eventually, but working as a barista. And that's a hustle, right? Really, really working hard. You know, and that's kind of the dream right there is, you know, working your way up. You have a dream. You know what you want to do, Odell, and you're doing what you need to do in the meantime to get there. That is very admirable, I think. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I really do admire, you know, your story, and we wish you all the best, and, you know, keep your eyes on that dream. Yeah, love it. Love it. Okay, good. So, again, this is a great question. So, we want to start by leading you guys to episode 1052. So, this was three questions to consider when you start a conversation with someone who is working. So, that was more about, you know, the customers or other people. Two different jobs. But we talked about waiters and waitresses and things like that. So, that's more from the other side. So, today, we're taking a look on the flip side of that. And now we're looking through the eyes of a barista or somebody working at the register, right? Yeah, it's kind of cool to learn English from different perspectives, different roles that we're playing in the world. That's cool. Right, right, right. So, you know, there are a few things to keep in mind with customers. So, we want to talk about. We're going to talk about two main things that you should think about when deciding whether or not to make small talk, right? Because it's partly just about that decision in the first place, right? Yeah, exactly. So, should we go into the two main things we want to think about then? Yeah. So, what's the first one, Lindsay? All right. So, the first one is ask yourself this question, Odell. How busy is the cafe or restaurant that you're working in in that moment? Yeah. So, I mean, if it's very busy or there's a long line. You have like a long line of customers, you probably want to keep any comments short and sweet to keep the line moving, right? So, I mean, you can say things like, oh, how are you today? Or what else, Lindsay? What can I getcha? Right. Or I recommend the. Or have a great day. And I just want to go back to what can I getcha? Meaning what? What does that mean? Getcha. What can I get you? Right. So, guys, native speakers, they bring together these phrases like gonna, right? This is another one of them. What can I get you? What can I getcha? Right. That's just opening it up and asking them what they want. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. So, you know, you really may not have much time for more than that, right? Yeah. In these situations. Yeah. And I think, you know, cafes, restaurants in smaller towns tend to be slower and you're more likely to have conversations. That's why I love traveling to small towns when I travel abroad, you know, because I can actually have these conversations with my. My server, for example. Yeah. Guys, would you like to. to finally drop your fear of speaking with natives in 2019? Well, something super exciting is happening this year because we're coming back for the Native Power English Weekend in Japan. But there are super limited spots available this year. So listen for a bonus episode next week, and we'll give you all the details. We're so excited to see you again this spring in Japan. Right, right, right. Exactly. And then the second one is how busy is the customer? So the first one is really how busy are you? How busy is the place? And the second one is about the customer. And this is what we talked about, like being able to read people, right? So check out their body language. It might be empty in the restaurant, but that doesn't mean that the customer has time, right? You have to read their body language. How are they speaking? Are they speaking in short, clipped sentences? Or are they kind of more like looking around and seeming like they have some time to talk? Yeah, interesting. Short, clipped sentences. What would be an example of that? Like, what is a short, clipped sentence? Like if you just say, if you're the barista, Lindsay, and you say like, oh, what can I get you? And I just say, I'll have a latte. Right. Oh, I see. You clip the sentence at the end. So you sound like in your voice, like you're in a rush. Right, right. You know, there's this tense feeling in the voice like, oh, I'm just trying to get out of here. Like I need my coffee and I'm going to go. Okay, I see. That makes sense. Right. So, if they're like, you know, speaking more like that, you know, you probably want to use more just the phrases that we talked about in step one. Right. But if you if they're looking at their phone, they're not really in a rush, or they're making eye contact with you. You know, are they, you know, asking questions, right? These are clues that you should, you should be on the lookout for these to help you decide what the customer wants. Right, Lindsay? Yeah, I love it. I love it. Fluency is not about speaking perfectly. It's about communicating comfortably, being able to share your ideas without stress, react naturally in conversations, and express your personality in English. If English still feels like something you have to manage carefully, you're probably very close to the next level of fluency. But progress becomes much faster once you know exactly where you stand. Take our free two-minute fluency quiz and discover your English level today. Okay, so what else do we need to know then? Yeah, so, I mean, you can still be polite and speak with them, a little bit if they're in a rush, like, you know, very, very briefly. But it doesn't have to be anything more than polite, short questions and statements. So, let's talk about if you have a person who's smiling, making eye contact, and not in a rush, what are some more interesting and fun things you can say to them? Lindsay, what do you think? So, we're going to talk about. So, if you want to make a recommendation, what's something you could say? Okay, you could say, well, what are you in the mood for? Or that depends on what you're in the mood for, right? Right, right, right. Right, exactly. So, like, you could say the chocolate is sweet and the whatever is this, right? The croissants are buttery or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, should we try this out, Lindsay? What's something. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah. So, hey, which is better, the cinnamon latte or the hot chocolate? Well, what are you in the mood for? The cinnamon latte is a bit spicier and the hot chocolate is sweet. Okay, right. Or I could say that depends what you're in the mood for. Yeah, yeah. So, does that sound natural to you, Lindsay? That sounds really natural. I think that's the typical conversation you're going to have with a barista to get a recommendation. Which is your favorite? Even in a restaurant, I like to ask the waitress or waiter, which dish do you recommend? Like, which is your favorite dish on the menu? Exactly, exactly. So, what's something else you could say? So, we could say, I think you should try the blank. It's my favorite. Right, right, right. You should try the, what, for example, the soup, the soup of the day, the clam chowder. You should try the clam chowder. It's my favorite. Right, right, right. Or another thing is, if you like blank, you should give blank a try. So, if you like chocolate, you should give our new cookies a try. Okay. So, making recommendations. Yeah, exactly. So, that's kind of one thing that you could talk about. And then we have general small talk. If you're preparing their dish, right, you're toasting something or whatever, you can just say, I'm going to try this. I'm going to try this. I'm going to say, like, oh, how's everything with you today? Or what else could you say, Lindsay? Or, yeah, if you're preparing their dish, or maybe you're just wiping the counter around them, for example, if they're sitting at the counter, you say, how's your day going? Or if they make that eye contact with you and they show that they want to talk, right? How's your day going? They're a little more open-ended, I think. Yeah, yeah. And then that'll, you know, based on their response, you'll see, like, do they want to keep talking or are they just going to be like, good, you know? Yeah. Or addressing the weather. I like this. Is it still raining out there? Let's say it was a rainy day. We've had some rainy days lately in Boston. That's a good conversation starter with customers. Yeah. Even though, you know, we kind of laugh about, you know, always talking about the weather, but I feel like this happens to me a lot. Like, it'll have been raining and then I'll go in somewhere and they'll say, oh, it's still raining out there or something like that. Well, yeah. In the end, it's the thing that brings us all together. So, and you don't really, we've done episodes on this before saying, hey, we don't need this magical opening phrase to get started. Like, something as simple as the weather, the point is talk about the weather. It's just to get things started, you know? So, I mean, but maybe in this case, it is just to make a quick remark. But in many conversations, it's just about getting the ball rolling with that person. Right, right, right. Or they could just say something like, oh, have you been here before? Or is this your first time? Right? You could ask something like that. That would be a good one. Yeah. Okay. So, these are some good ideas for Odell here. I love it. Yeah. And then just really quick, you know, at the end, you know, if like, they already ate and now they're packing up or they're bringing you their dish, you could say, oh, so how do you like the, right? How do you like the latte or what else? Would you, meaning what did you? So, if you guys come back to our blog, you're going to want to come back today, right? This is episode, what episode number is this? This is 1084, 1084. You're going to want to look at the way we've written these phrases. So, the question is, what did you think of the, the tea or the soup, right? Right, right. What did you, what did you, what did you, what'd you think? What'd you think? Of the soup. Yeah. Or, you know, oh, I hope you liked the croissant, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love it. So, guys, we've kind of taught you a lot of little phrases today, you know, for different situations. Number one, we went through and we talked about how do we know what kind of small talk we should make? And then if the door is open for more small talk, what can we say? Like, often it's things like making recommendations or just, you know, asking some open-ended questions. And, you know, we can, of course, go further into this, but this is a good start, right, Lindsay? Yeah, I think this is a good place to start. It's a good question from Odell. For sure. So, you know, remember, you have to see what the customer is in the mood for. And these phrases are good to, you know, feel them out if they want to continue talking or not. So, take their cue. So, we can also do a follow-up on how to, like, get even deeper, right, another time. So, let's just try this role play out real fast. So, in this situation, you are the barista. Okay, I'm ready. Here we go. Hi there. How are you today? What can I get you? I'm good, thanks. Hmm, I'm not sure. How's the chocolate chip muffin? Delicious. I just ate one. They're fresh. Which one do you recommend? The chocolate chip muffin or the pumpkin spice muffin? Ooh, tough choice. If you like pumpkin, you should give the pumpkin spice muffin a try. They're seasonal and delicious. Okay, thanks. I'll get that. Okay, I'll just warm it up. So, how's your day going? Not bad. And you? Fine, fine. Yeah, it's pouring. Oh, too bad. Okay, here you go. You can pay at the end. Okay. And then afterwards, I go up to pay. Okay, so I owe you four bucks, right? Here you go. Thanks. What did you think of the muffin? Oh, it was great. Great recommendation. Glad to hear it. Have a great day. You too. Yeah, that seems like a typical conversation exchange. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I think you're not going to go too much deeper with a barista probably, but just a friendly exchange. You know, sometimes, maybe people don't get to talk to others during the day. And it's nice for them to be able to have a nice exchange with the neighborhood barista, right? Yeah, yeah, it's true. Like if they do a lot of work, just, you know, sitting at home, they want that interaction. Exactly, exactly. So, it's all about anticipating what they want. Right, right, right. So, let's just go through it quickly today. So, here you said, how are you today? Right? What can I get you? And then, oh, I asked you for your recommendation. And you said. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you said, so, how's your day going? Right? So, even though you said, how are you today earlier? This is fine. This is like a little bit more deep. Like, how's your day going? Right? Might invite some more conversation. Yeah. And obviously, this is only if the customer is kind of showing the signs that they're open to talking. Right? So, yeah. And then you asked me a question. So, is it still raining out there? Right, right, right. Yeah. And then at the end, you said, what do you think? of the muffin. What'd you think? We should do an episode on those contractions, I think, Michelle. Yeah, the connections. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. Yeah. You know, native speakers, there's no time to say, so what did you think of the muffin? For sure. For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. That is super important. Yeah. What's the takeaway today, Michelle? Okay. Well, the takeaway is, you know, like we said, read your customer, right? We talked about what it means to read someone. So, you can feel them out with questions and by what they're saying, how are they saying it, right? If they ask for a recommendation, you know, or say things like, hmm, or show that they aren't in a rush, they might have time and they might be more open to small talk rather than someone who's in a rush or if the line is too long. So, you really got to feel out the situation and, you know, keep it, you know, keep it not too. Too long, I would say. Keep it short. Keep it short and sweet. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And thank you, Odell, for this question. I mean, this is, it's all about, you know, you are getting ready to become a journalist, right? And you're working your way up in San Francisco. This is a chance to practice your English for sure. But it's about knowing, do other people want to chat? I think people in San Francisco are pretty friendly. I think so too. I mean, I haven't been there in a long time, but I think so. Yeah. At the same time, it's a busy, large city. So, just kind of be prepared. Or anything. Have these phrases ready to pull them out if you need to. Right, right. For sure. Okay. Well, this has been fun, Lindsay. And I, now I want to go out and talk with a barista. I know. I think I'm going to go down to my cafe down the street here and grab a coffee. All right. Okay. Enjoy. So, I will talk to you later, Lindsay. And thank you guys for listening. Okay. Bye, Michelle. Bye. We are so glad that we could bring you these tips today about how long small talk should be. I especially love this tip. About letting the other person guide the conversation. This is a hallmark of the best conversationalist. To not monopolize it too much. To know how much to lead and how much to read from them. Yes, exactly. So, guys, if you missed our recent interview with Maya Rosignac-Milan, please be sure to check out. Because it's all about, check it out. It's all about riffing and how the best small talk quickly moves from small talk topics into riffing. Yes. These are such good tips. That was episode 2510, New York Times author Maya Rosignac-Milan. That's the French. Michelle gave you the English pronunciation. This is the French pronunciation. Rosignac. Yeah, that was. Oh, my gosh. I'm sure Maya hears all kinds of pronunciation of her name. It's a tricky one. That's a tricky last name. Can you say it for me one more time? Maya Rosignac-Milan. Rosignac-Milan. Not bad. There we go. So, yes, shares how riffing builds connection in English. And this is so true. Not only do you need to know how long small talk should last, you do want to as soon as possible get from talking about the weather, these small talk topics into something interesting, build a connection, learn how to riff on something you might have in common. So check out that episode for details if you missed that one. Such good tips there. Oh, yeah, definitely. And be sure to hit follow for the rest of this series with tips for starting the conversation, keeping it going and pivoting to a new topic if necessary. So Aubrey, we'll see you in part two. Yes, I'll see you there, Michelle. Bye, guys. Bye. Thanks for listening to All Ears English. Would you like to know your English level? Take our two-minute quiz. Go to allearsenglish.com forward slash fluency score. And if you believe in connection, not perfection, then hit subscribe now to make sure you don't miss anything. See you next time. Bye. Should she say that about the kisses? Is that weird? She doesn't care. She presses send. This is the love story of real hinge couple Daniel and Roisin, written and read by me, Rufy Thorpe. Listen to the free audiobook now. Tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college. That's why she shops at BJ's Wholesale Club, saving up to 25% off grocery store prices. Beef jerky. Microwave. Beef meals. Laundry pods. Even they can't screw up. Have you met my kids? And with BJ's gas, she gets there for less. They call me the road warrior. This is your home, road warrior mom. Home of the save. Join for just $20 at bjs.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months. 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