Late-Round Perspectives: Brandon Gdula

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Brandon Godul is a senior analyst for Late Round Fantasy Football who previously worked at Number Fire in Fandall. He's a multi-time F.S.W.A. award winner. He's a date-and-nurred, a golf analyst, a cat lover, a hooper, and a big wrestling fan. These are his late-round perspectives. [MUSIC PLAYING] I had to dust off all the equipment, the microphone, the camera. I looked it up. I guess it's been well over six months since I did a podcast. So I was going to say I'll have to pen since you did a show. Yeah, I'm like, where's all my stuff? Is it even connected to my new computer? But yeah, here we are. Was the last one that you did with Jim? Of course. Yeah. Yeah. We love Jim here. Love Jim. Jim Sanis. But Jim also-- I got a lot of questions about him when I did the quarterback episode this year, prospecting episode. And people were like, are you bringing Jim on? Are you bringing Jim on? But his job now does not allow him to do shows and such. So we had Alfredo step in, and Alfredo is obviously awesome, and it was a great show. And now Alfredo's doing work, quarterback work, with reception perception. So Alfredo will probably be the replacement of Jim. But I don't know, from Jim's perspective, he also-- this is Jim Sanis for the record. But from Jim's perspective, he went out on top. Because two years ago, he called Jane Daniels. Last year, he called Jackson Dart, and darts the top quarterback from that class now in Dynasty. So way to go, Jim. Good job. But this is about you. This is about you. Well, you can make about Jim. It's fine. Oh, we're not going to talk about Jim. You've been with late-round fantasy football for like five months now, over almost six months. And you haven't done a show in the feed. And so we thought, might as well do this, because you've been doing a lot of work on the folks who read the prospect guide. Your name was thrown out there a lot, because you did all the tight end work. We've been doing a lot for prepping and slash getting started with the draft guide stuff, new metrics coming out. There's just a bunch of stuff that you've been doing. And so I thought, this is a really good time to sort of like throw you out there, introduce you to the late-round fantasy football world in a more intimate way, as opposed to the newsletter. I should have mentioned the newsletter. So that's really what you've been doing a ton of every week. But introduce you to the late-round world. But first, in doing that, talk about yourself a little bit. Something that you don't love doing, I understand. I know, I know you well. But talk about like, what got you into this, how you started in the space, all that good stuff. - Yes, this is going to be an interesting one. But I can talk, I can go back farther a bit. I mean, I was kind of always daydreamin' about fantasy football and middle school high school as on the message boards, you know, probably at that rate, talking some smack, I'm sure. But I wouldn't do that now. But looking at things like schedule lock, like what if I played this other person's schedule? I was lookin' into that stuff, 'cause I was, you know, so I got unlucky, which always happens to everybody. But all that kind of stuff, you know, we're talkin' I guess 20 years ago now at this point. But my brother, my older brother, was kind of on the forefront, I guess, listening to some podcasts. And it's now to funk podcast, I think it was called the Fantasy Fumble. They were like, hey, we're launching a website, if you wanna write content. - I would even think I'd do this. - Yeah, well this is, yeah, it goes right into the next step. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - So, my brother's like, you should do this, like you do this all the time. And I'm like, ah, all right. So I did it. It was like some sort of base level. Here's why you should not take a tight end or a quarterback early and you should get your flex like figured out, take a running back. I kind of like early, you know. Before we knew what we know now about a lot of things and before the game changed, but you know, got published and whatever. So, you know, then probably like a year or two go by if I had to guess, the site has long been erased from the internet. So I'm scrolling through Twitter before night class one night. I see a tweet from you looking for writers for number fire. And I'm like, well, I mean, yeah, I read number fire. So like, of course. And I remember I was trying to like dig up these old links. My professor walks in. I'm like, no, I'm leaving. I ain't missing this chance. I don't know how quickly this is gonna go. So I go in the stairwell. I got in the stairwell typing out on like this. I mean, old, like old, old, you know, now smartphone. I'm sure everything was load and real slow. But I got an email off to you. You liked enough of what you saw. And then we chatted and you know, I came on wrote articles for number fire started editing. And then since then, you know, number fire got bought by Fandall. And we worked together there till you left and started late round fantasy football. And let's just say I'm here now. So yeah, yeah, I didn't know. So so the fantasy fun. Did you hear? You know that fantasy, the fantasy fumble was the first ever podcast that I did. Really? No joke. That's why I was freaking out when you said it. With the, I think it was Scott or George. George. George. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was the first, it was the first show I ever did. I've told this story I think before, but like I was such a nervous wreck. You know, I'm like 23 years old or something like that. Such a nervous wreck. I did it in, I had like a couple of beers before doing it, which is just very not my style or MO. Yeah. And I went and I had like I was living in Cincinnati. I had a closet that was really big. It had good like sound, you know, from a sound perspective and acoustic perspective. And I recorded the show from the closet of that of that room. And I remember at that time, I had no idea how to like, because like when you first, especially back then, because this was like 2011, 2012 timeframe. And back then, maybe 2012, back then, like this industry was not nearly what it is now, where you've seen so many, like hundreds and hundreds of people come up and then leave the industry. And you know, you kind of know, even if you're newer in the industry, that you're going to be taking criticism all the time. Like it's just what it is with the fantasy football space. And I remember I had no idea that it was going to be like that because we didn't really know back then what, what it was like to be an analyst or a thought leader or an influencer on the internet. I mean, it sounds crazy because it was only like 14 years ago, 15 years ago. But that's seriously how it was back then. And I remember getting so tilted after doing that show because I got off air and they were talking about me afterwards like on the show. And they were saying things that were not even really criticism. It was me taking it a certain way. And then I had to go to Twitter and defend myself and defend my honor and be very, very overly aggressive about it. And it's just funny that all got brought back to me with you bringing up the fantasy fumble because they seriously were like some of the first people that I interacted with in the fantasy space. And now I'm thinking about it. What if they would have just kept going with that? They could be doing this thing full time probably. There are a lot of people who, like you said, a lot of people who are around and aren't really, but there are a lot of people who just are kind of around because they've been around and they had an audience. It's not a comment on like they never evolved or anything, but getting in early, like a lot of people did. I kind of think about that too for that podcast and just kind of like, man, I don't even remember all of the things that I read, all the people who were doing fantasy analysis and like when targets were kind of a thing that people like had some access to it. We didn't even have like data on it. Yeah. I just think about if those people, I think about this all the time too for me, like, man, if I just like learned about some of this stuff early on, you know, because my path is basically on the English major and not a senior analyst dealing with spreadsheets all day. But yeah, I just think about like what would be different if I was had access to like targets or just, you know, we're kind of in this a different way early on. But I'm glad I came through it with from a content perspective. That's my strong suit. But I think my background like overall of just being able to dig in and kind of feel, it's that I say like an English lit, you know, degree. A lot of people think it's worthless. But if you apply yourself like you're tasked with reading things, thinking about like, you got to filter the information, take it different ways like create, you know, I don't want to say create a narrative, but actually find the narrative. One of the things that I love to do, one of the few things that I take away from school, all my many years of school. One of the most important things was in an English class at Penn State. At a TA, he's like, hey, you know, don't write a thesis statement. Like you're going to back yourself into a corner. As you do more research, you might realize that that's wrong. And yeah, you kind of finish your paper and you're like, well, I'm just going to leave it like this. If you ask questions, you get to explore things. Maybe you end up with a strong takeaway. Maybe you don't, but I'd say that kind of is like my, a lot of my day to day now, doing stuff with late round. is like, let's ask some questions, let's dig in and like, let's see what's there. And if there's not, don't force anything. But yeah, it's been a, that's been my journey. But I do think about those people who kind of started early and who aren't really around anymore. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely like, you know, I do not envy folks who are trying to make it in the space right now. It was easier when we were like, because it was not as competitive. Now, I also think from that perspective, you know, you, you bring up like some of your work and you having this feeling that what you're doing now is so much more in depth of what it was back then, which 100% of course it is. But I also think that that's important to be able to evolve and get better and not just stick with the same process and, you know, do the same thing over and over again. It also though brings up like, for me, there's a lot of people that have these like established takes that they think that I still believe that I wrote about six years ago when I just don't, you know, and sure, like the late round QB moniker doesn't help. But at the same time, it's like, make sure you're always consuming and asking questions aside from just assuming that an analyst is feeling a certain way. But you brought up your background and stuff. Like, I think that that example of the thesis thing was, it makes a ton of sense because in why we clicked when you started at number fire. So for background, Brandon was a managing editor at number fire and fandal for a really long time under me. You were basically the first like full time employee that I was able to hire and bring on to work for me. And you were such a big help with running the number fire editorial and the business and stuff. But we both had the same mindset of that. Like that was the mindset that we went in with all of our content in that, you know, you could talk to the Scott Barrett, so the world and the Grand Bar fields and the Chris Raybonds and all these people who started at number fire and, you know, amazingly are flourishing and doing great work outside of, you know, within the space. But one of the things that I think that they would agree on is that, you know, we were very strict with the way that we would say, let the data do the talking. Like don't have these preconceived notions of what you want to prove because you will just force the data to say a certain thing. Instead, sometimes you're going to research stuff and it's not going to come out the way that you wanted to come out and you're going to be frustrated, but you got to kind of trash that. And you might not be able to write content around that. So I guess my general question is like, how would you just describe yourself as an analyst? I think that people are getting an idea right now. But if you were to sort of sum it up, how would you describe yourself as an analyst? Like what is your film then? Analytics ratio look like? Like how are you looking at this game of fantasy football? Yeah. I mean, like a film to analytics ratio probably is, if I had to guess like 80, 20 in terms of the data and it's probably closer to 90, 10 and I would also even say that 10 is maybe not even film, but it's just knowing what I don't know and like what limitations are with data. And like, look, I think another reason that we click is like we know that we look at this from a data lens, but we also know that data doesn't capture everything. There's nuance that you have to be able to apply and it doesn't always get applied. And I think that's also kind of like, I'm not going to fight the fight of like film versus analytics. Like that's not. I don't like fights and everything, but I do think that analytics sometimes gets a bad rap because people don't always grasp what good data is and they'll see like the, it's like the joke of on Monday night when it's like 47 degrees, like, you know, the Steelers do that. Like, that's not, yeah, like those are numbers, but like that's not data and that's not the way that we look at things. Like, I just think that there's so much to data that you have to know, you don't know, and then you have to be able to look at the right types of data and the right types of data only emerge when you kind of test things or at the very least you step back and say, there's a two game sample of a player, you know, playing without the team's wide receiver one, right? Like to, let's say, let's say, simplify it, say start the season in week three when that star receiver comes back, you can't just copy and paste that. Right. You can't look at yards. Like you have to look at different things. So one of the things, speaking of Jim, I'll probably shout him out a couple of times just because he and I have, you know, we did a podcast for a decade together. So we have a lot of the same thoughts on things. I took a lot from him, but one of the things that he always like talks about is the most relevant sample. And that's one of the things that I really took from Jim where it's really easy just to kind of grab the last five games or the last three games or the full season. But now in 2026, I feel like there's a level of maybe that's not the best sample. Maybe there's a sample with Jacobi Brissette last year for the Cardinals. That's a different sample than with different quarterbacks. But there's also a sample Jacobi Brissette with Marvin Harrison, Jr. healthy and active. That's a different sample than looking at the full 2025 Arizona Cardinal season. So for me, yes, I look at data, but there are certain things that I do with data that I think are really important and I don't always see a plot. And like, again, like saying that everybody else is wrong. That's not what I'm saying. Where I think like my brain goes to is let other people give me information. Like there are literal coach speak trackers. Yeah. Coach can need to sift through like I don't need to sift through every interview. I can just let that do. Yeah. You know, that part of things for me sports book data. I can let that do so much heavy lifting. Where could like where do I fit in? It's looking at things that I don't see talked about enough. And for me, it's a lot about regression expected fantasy points, expected touchdowns, looking at like I have a model that looks at that stuff on a play level basis. That's where I'm like, I don't see that enough. I see yards, I see market shares, I see yards per out run. I don't see enough usage of like it's not super widely available. I get that and not every expected fantasy points model is the same or expected touchdown model is the same. But that's the type of thing where I'm like, I'm not going to learn more about a team than sports books, most likely. Like let me let me take that from them. Let me take the coach speak from other people like where can I fit in? And so I'm always trying to ask questions, figure out like where I can go. So yes, it's about 80 to 90% film or sorry, analytics over film. And I don't like I'll watch film a little bit to see if things are get supported. But I think like that other is more knowing what we can't really fully capture. And it's in knowing that the data itself is not 100% indicative of what has happened or what's going to happen. I think it's a really important thing to bring up because people who listen to this show, people who log on the Twitter, you know, I've gone on other shows. I tweeted about this couple weeks ago. Or I'll go on another show and I'll talk about, I'll get asked about those that model or something and I'll start talking about it. And then the comments on that show are like, why does this guy only talk about his model and analytics? Well, number one, I'm being asked about it. But number two, that's my approach with this stuff, right? Like that's what I'm trying to bring to the table that isn't out there from other people, right? And I think that part of the problem that we run into when there is disagreement with the way that people are approaching data is that the loudest, most obnoxious people on social media are often not doing the best data analysis. You know, there's, there are so many good data analysts and scientists out there that unfortunately, number one, aren't loud enough, but then number two, don't know how to mark it what they're doing well enough, right? And so it's an issue from that perspective where like there's some really good stuff out there. But then people who oppose it are only seeing like the, the, the, for lack of better term idiots out there who are just spewing things because they want to get clicks, you know, when there's so much more nuance to what we're trying to do. And that's why I did want to have this conversation on perspectives. I think this is a good time to do it because we've done now, you know, five, six months worth of data work and stuff. I mean, there's a little bit of an onboarding period and whatnot, but we have done a lot of that work. I'm hoping that people can now see that the work that we are doing is thought out and nuance and it's not just something that we're throwing out there and saying, Hey, we want to make a buck. This is really, you know, this is the best metric you've ever seen in your life. And this is why you need to use it. That's not, that's not what it's about. This is about us literally wanting to create the things that we think are missing in the fantasy space that can help us win in fantasy football and under while understanding that there is nuance to this, that there is this like attention to detail and this context that's needed and stuff like that, that often gets missed, unfortunately. And that's what gives analysis and analytical analysis a bad name in the end. I gave credit to Jim. I'll give credit to you. One thing that you always, and this is not because you're, you know, my boss again, but one thing I learned from you is it doesn't really matter if you have a model. If that model is not better than what exists in whatever way you're measuring it. And like you can throw out any types of data, but like, let's just say, you know, So, air yards per out run might sound cool, but is that better than anything else? I'm sorry if there's like an air yards per out run guy out there, like, yeah. - No, I mean, I think a great example of that is like we've seen a lot of, and it's interesting data, and there could be signal to it, but I've tested some of it, but like yards per out run minus screens, for instance, right? Like that kind of stuff is not as predictive as you might think, because it is intuitive, it makes sense in our brains, but at the same time, you can look at that from the opposite angle and say, well, screens are actually not bad for a player, because that's intent, and it shows that they're probably good at football, and that's still scoring. Like it's like the take away their biggest play kind of analysis. Well, that play happened, and it's important. - And they can make big plays. - Yeah, right, exactly. It's like part of the allure of that player, right? Like, there's just that context that's needed, and I appreciate the love, because I do think it's important, that if you're gonna work on something, and you're gonna publish something, it should be helpful. It's that simple. It shouldn't lead an audience astray where they're now, and look, I've been guilty of publishing things a little bit too early, I think, you know, like, ideas and theories and all that, 'cause I'm kind of taking the audience on a journey with me, but then I regret that to a degree. Like I remember doing the ambiguous RB1 theory, or something like that. It was called where I thought that in ambiguous backfields, the RB1 that was drafted was typically the best player, in the one that exceeded expectation, but I realized the sample sizes were too small. It was just not the right way to really look at that analysis. And so I pivoted off of it, but then again, going back to what we were talking about earlier, people stick with it, and they're like, "Well, no, we should be drafting the first running back "and ambiguous backfield, when that's not really the case." But with all that being said, you built out and helped build out the Zat model for tight ends this year. And that was a huge ad. You know, we worked on that a lot in January and in February. And it was a huge ad for the prospect guide, late round fantasy football, all that stuff. And you have a way more intimate, you know, understanding of the tight end class than I do, 'cause you wrote up all the prospects. I mean, I obviously, you know, know it, but you know it on a very, very deep level. And my question to start this with the tight ends is Kenan Sadiq. Sadiq has a lot of haters out there. Like more than I anticipated there being, I think more than, 'cause like I'm more online than you are with some of this stuff and like seeing what's going on and what people are talking about in the fantasy space and whatnot. And I remember like hitting you up and being like, yeah, they're saying all, and you were like pretty surprised by the reaction with Sadiq. But what would you say to people who maybe drafted Sadiq in their rookie drafts or thinking about drafting them in best ball or whatever the case may be, to give more of the bowl case for Sadiq and why the model seems to not hate him? - Yeah, it's funny, 'cause I was digging into tight ends and I was like, okay, there's one guy, he's the number one first rounder Kenan Sadiq. I'm like, yeah, but there's some stuff here. I'm gonna like be a little bit contrary and I was like, nope, people hate him way more than I do. So now I feel like I'm strangely defending a top 16 very young super athletic tight end and it just feels like we maybe lost the plot with what a fantasy football tight end generally is and I think some of that applies to Sadiq. So I'll get into some stuff, but I mean, the case for Sadiq is pretty, I mean, especially with the landing spots, like Jets, like, no thanks, he's toted. It's like, so it's like, there's like, there's a lot to like about Sadiq if you wanna see it that way. Like if you're really like bearish and you wanna see it that way, I guess, but I think there's a lot more good than bad. Again, if you're calibrated with what a fantasy football tight end generally is and can be and I'm about to argue for like no a fan and Evan Ingram that people probably just don't understand about them, but for Sadiq. - Yeah, like, so Sadiq top 16 pick, that matters. We've had since 2016, we've had 11 first round tight ends in their rookie seasons, they had an average target share of 15.8%. So I'm a 16%. That would be the tight end 21 last year based on the relevant, or the games that guys actually played in for context. It's like, that's not gonna blow you away. If you look at the top 16 tight ends, their target share on average, 19.6% since 2016, as a rookie, that would be like a tight end 10 by target share, as a rookie. Now I talked about this in the prospect guide too, but Frank Reich historically has been friendly to the position across 10 seasons where he was the team's coordinator or head coach. His squad just once ranked outside the top 20 and tight end target share, but there were top five, four different times. And like, you don't draft Kenyan Sadiq 16th overall to treat him like a 8% target share guy. If they do, okay, then sure. But even on the low end, that's like the low end for the late round one picks about a borderline like 10% target share as a rookie. I just don't see that being the case for Sadiq. It just seems like people also are holding his competition against him or maybe don't fully look into his competition. But a lot of guys have competition, I get it, but he played with Terrence Ferguson, who's probably a very good tight end as we'll learn, maybe not, but on paper, he should be very good. Ted Johnson, Troy Franklin, Bucky Irving. Jamari Johnson is projected to be a first rounder next year and he's a tight end. Like Sadiq had a lot of competition. And whenever the ducks just lost a lot of that competition from 2023 to 2024, Sadiq got more involved, but he played behind Ferguson. There were three receivers with over 600 yards. And then lost more, gave him more opportunity. And then he set Oregon's single season, tight end record and receptions. He played with his third quarterback in his many seasons. And we're in this new NFL landscape where we saw Marlon Klein go 59th overall to the Texans. And for anybody who doesn't know, he played behind Holston Loveland, who's probably a generational tight end prospect, an 80-barner Luke Schoonmaker. He had 38 career catches in a touchdown. I think we're entering this territory where NFL coaches and staffs are like, tight end is this new, fun, interesting position. But it's also multiple positions in one. And they might look at a player and be like, why was this guy blocking? Why didn't they get him more involved? At running back and receiver, like you're generally like, if you're not getting the ball, there's probably a reason. Yes, some running backs are phenomenal past blockers. Some receivers are great run blockers. But like tight end is this weird hybrid position where one coaching staff in college might view it differently. And then we see like Houston, they probably think that Marlon Klein has a lot of potential to be used in a way that he wasn't in college. And it's not even like, I'm making the case for Marlon Klein so that I can say, Kenyans to Deep was productive. It's not like he didn't have production. It just took him three years. And now he got drafted just after turning 21. And like, all of this is a positive. In the Zat model database, there have been six first round tight ends, younger than 21 and a half at draft time, Brock Bowers, Kyle Pits, Holston Loveland, Eric Ebron, Noah Fant and David and Joku. All of them had a peak year within their first three NFL seasons with at least nine PPR points per game. And I think this is where this all lands. It's like, yeah. What is a good tight end outcome for people? If it's just cherry picking, George Kittle and Rob Gronkowski and like peak more, and like Morgan Andrews, his like, peak wasn't even as sustained because there's like, if you're looking for 15 plus, you know, PPR points per game for a tight end, you just don't see it very often. You're basically cherry picking the best. So, Sadeek in the model, the Zat model gets comped to Noah Fant. Noah Fant was a top 10 tight end in two of his first three seasons. He gets comped to Evan Angrum. Angrum was a top seven tight end in all three of his first three years. They just didn't score a lot of touchdowns as well, but both were top, not, if you go back to 2011 and look at a player's first three years, they were both top nine among tight ends drafted in that span in yardage. It's just like, they're the tier below Kittle McBride and Andrews' support. It's like, that is a good outcome. It's not the elite like outlier outcome. This is all good production. I think people just like, or like if you're not Brock Bowers, you're just a guy. That's kind of what it feels like. Yes, yes. I agree. And part of the problem is exactly that. And it's like when I publish the rank, like rookie rankings, and Kenyans City has a really good Zap score. And then people are like, well, why is he ranked below KC Concepcion, for instance? Well, the reason for that is because the position, like you just said, is not giving you as much value in fantasy football as wide receiver will give you. It doesn't mean, though, that the score within the position, because it's in the context of other tight ends is what that Zap score says. That doesn't mean that he's bad within the position. He's actually very good within the position. It's just that when we look back and we obviously we rebuilt the tight ends at model and we can look back and see who has perfect scores. And it's Brock Bowers, it's Kyle Pits, Colson Loveland, I think, had a score of 100 in the newest one. Are those the three that had? I think those are the three. Yeah. And it's like all three of them, you know, Kyle Pits has hit bumps in the road, but like even his output is way better than what anyone should realistically, like from an expectation standpoint. It's still done very, very well in fantasy football. It's just that I think tight end has had this really weird perception problem because understandably in season long, I mean, in fantasy in general, we really should be chasing high end tight ends. Like that's because those are the difference makers. Those are the ones that truly do matter. But I think that if you're looking at this class, you're saying who has an opportunity at some chance to be that guy. It's him and then it's Eli Stowers, probably as the other one, but Eli Stowers has generally been that tight end to in this class. The real question I think starts at tight end three. Do you have a tight end three? Now the Zat model, here's the other thing too, is that when we do our rankings, it's not going to be one to one of the Zat model, especially for lower tiered players. Like the higher tiered ones will generally align with because those are those guys have separated themselves enough to say, okay, we do feel pretty confident that they're better than the rep. But when it comes to like a Zat score of 50 or 40 or whatever the case may be, we're talking about lower tiered players that are more flexed plays at best in fantasy football. And so we're going to let situation and stuff and some of the stuff that we more subjectively like dictate where we might rank these guys. So as someone yourself having written and analyzed all these tight end prospects, I know that Stowers is the two for you, but who is the three? Who's the third best tight end in this class, do you think? This is a really difficult one, not because there aren't options, but because of where Max Claire went. I still think chips down, I'm looking at a rookie draft. I'm going to go Max Claire as tight end three. He led this, he leads this class in breakout score, super predictive at receiver, still pretty predictive at tight end. And whenever you lead again, sort of a generational top of the first half, you know, talent and Kenyans to eat, everybody's favorite Eli Stowers fantasy football, just like, no, no, he's the tight end one. It's like, and if I doesn't see it that way, Max Claire still has draft capital. And like, yes, he's got a bit of a crowded tight end room right now. But I think that if I had to sort of just bet on one of these other guys, the safest bet with a path to like, no, this guy had like multiple top six tight end seasons would be Max Claire. He was very productive at Purdue. Then he transferred to a high state was a little bit less productive, but he played alongside Jeremiah Smith, current state, obviously Wilka's Merrick, another tight end who was drafted 87th overall, he was more of a run blocker, but a lot of like a lot of competition at Ohio State, he was the he was third in receptions behind Smith and Tate. And like, yeah, he didn't have as good of a market share, you know, just sort of high end output as he did at Purdue, but like he was still relevant at Ohio State. And so now I think you put him on our Rams team. It's a very good system. Hopefully like math, you know, they got their quarterback in the future too, I guess. So this should be a good infrastructure for Claire, who I think could very easily turn into the tight end three, like by a good margin, because there's, there's a lot to like about all these other tight ends, but there are kind of reasons why they didn't stand out like Claire did. Claire kind of has that like, he's got some mark and yours to him. And like, again, just like you go back most, most of the high end performers weren't first rounders. Like it takes the right situation, the right, the right scheme. To me, I think Max Claire long term has the highest sort of probability of hitting and giving us multiple, like, producible tight end, like top six seasons among this class outside of the top two. We also had to be open minded about like we both like Terence Ferguson, but there's also definitely an out where he just doesn't hit like he has to get better as a blocker. He has to do more like he there's improvement that needs to be done with Terence Ferguson that I think when you look at his profile versus Max Claire's, for instance, Claire looks like a more well rounded tight end, whereas Ferguson looks like the Darren Waller ceiling play, you know, like the like could actually break fantasy football potentially, whereas Claire, like you said is like the Andrews, like, like maybe not the kiddle outcome or something like that, but like a very, very, you know, solid way above average type of outcome. And there are so many names and profiles in the Zat model of tight end built on man, if this guy hits look out, it's like they don't always hit. Yeah. And that's not that's not to put anybody in that particular bucket like Ferguson in that bucket, but tight ends this weird combination like some teams want you to block more or make sure you can block before you get on the field. Some teams are like, we're just going to make you a big slot receiver. Yeah. And I think that Max Claire brings enough just like safety to an offense that he could be like a low like a high floor kind of play. And in a good scoring season, he's like a, you know, top three tight end down the line. Yeah. And he's sleeper tight ends from the class because that's something that because basically you get to like the round five, round six and rookie drafts right now. And you're only looking at tight ends for the most part because the running back and wide receiver classes are so weak. Yeah. I mean, it kind of depends. I see a lot of like, there's still generally a big three at tight end with Claire usually being the tight end three in most rankings. And then it's like what's truly a sleeper. So I'll give some like shallower ones, but then also two deeper cuts. I do want to shout out Oscar Delt. Yeah. I'm going to say seven on keep trade cut. So I would assume he counts for this, but great athlete. He's going to get to play half of it. I guess over half of his games to play the Falcons indoors. Sub four, five second, 40 yard dashes pro day. And even adjusting that like for, you know, slow it down a little bit. He's got the second best height adjusted speed score in the class. It's a pretty old tight end room in New Orleans. And I think there's like a good opening for Delt long term to kind of be maybe that like kiddle type where it's like, hey, this got into a ton in college. By the way, played behind Brock Bauer's and like, you know, had some competition there. So I would say Delt. And then for another shallow one, I just shout out Eli Rarodon who I think you have as the tight end three. I do. Yeah. He's outside the top five and consensus ranks on fantasy pros. So maybe people aren't taking him that seriously. But productive like efficient receiver didn't score a lot of touchdowns though. Had some injuries, but I think he could morph into like kind of a bit of a difference maker. As far as like true sleepers go, I think this is probably more of what you're looking for. Tanner Cosial, I would say he was the. It's like it's not it's not often that you're looking at the second tight end drafted on a team. But like Tanner Cosial is more of the fantasy friendly tight end drafted by the Jaguars compared to Nate Borkerture. Nate Borkerture. He was like a name that I was like, this guy's like a third round like mock draft pick pretty much everywhere. I'm like, why? Yeah. I was receiving data. It's not there. I'm like, he's just got it. The blocking's there. You kind of watch some film. I did watch film on these guys like that. That's I wouldn't really count that as my my process, my general process for fantasy football. But I did watch a lot more film for these prospects. And it's like, okay, I get it. But Tanner Cosial, one of my favorite kind of like stats from this class was Tanner Cosial led two different offenses and back to back years and receptions at Ball State and then at Houston, really, really good breakout score, max yards, protein attempt, both above the 85th percentile within the model. Like I think that there's a chance that he just sort of plays like a nice role. I know there's Brent and Strange there. I know Borkerture should be on the field. Like Borkerture is going to be one of those guys. Like get up my snap grid each week and it's like played, you know, 70% of the snaps, but didn't see a target again. I think Cosial at least has a chance to morph into something. And then the real sleeper probably is Michael Trigg. Undrafted free agent to the Cowboys had off-field concerns, but some sources, some mock drafters had him as the tight end to and I understand why. Like when you look at the film, you're like, oh, yeah, I see the place he's making to the same place you'd see on Red Zone or a highlight real. It's like he's making catches run after the catch kind of stuff. No concerns, not the most complete blocker, but he also had the unfortunate pro day vertical of 27 and a half inches. But he was dealing with the hamstring, apparently. There's a lot for him to overcome being an undrafted free agent, but there's a lot of potential for Michael Trigg. And I think if you're like looking at just a late round pick in a rookie draft or he just kind of flow. I think he's actually, he might be the Titan 3 on, where is he on Keep Trade Cut? He's up there as far as rookie Titans go. He's the Titan 4. So I don't know where who actually shape up, but like people probably already had their rookie drafts, like keep an eye on Michael Trigger, I'll just say that. - Yeah, yeah, I mean, the drafts that I've done, he's been, you know, last round type pick. - Yes. - That's a good call. - Pim and John Michael Gillenborg, I've been the two that I've thrown darts at at Titan, just because with John Michael Gillenborg, you get an interesting situation in Kansas City, and then obviously the athletic profile is pretty good. Production profile, even when adjusted is still fine enough, you know, adjusted for program and stuff. So I like to call out a lot. As a bit of a teaser, you've also been doing some research on offensive coordinators for the, the late round newsletter, which by the way, guys, subscribe to the newsletter, lateround.com. It's absolutely free. Brandon's doing basically an article every week and there, all very heavily researched, really interesting stuff. So check it out, just go to lateround.com, sign up for free for the newsletter. But you're doing some work on offensive coordinators. And so my question to you is, which coordinator shift do you think could result in the best turnaround for an offensive? - Yeah, I'll be pedantic here, 'cause like turnaround's the key term. I think that honestly, if that wasn't the way you phrased it, I might honestly just shout out, like Drew Petsing with the Lions and say, maybe this team just throws a ton and we get like an all-time PPR season by Jermir Gibbs. But I think it's really hard. And I know you'll, you'll, everyone's gonna be on board with this. But Mike McDaniel with the Chargers. It's just, it's such like an easy call that I still don't know is being fully like sort of applied. Like in terms of just overall sentiment with the Chargers and in best ball drafts that I'm doing, I feel like the hype hasn't really been there yet. But yeah, and like, yeah, turnaround, it's like the Chargers were terrible, but they were below average in EPA per play last year. The ceiling just is like, probably the number one offense, which is what McDaniel had in 2023 with the Dolphins. He's now got all the weapons in the world, including Justin Herbert. And I just wanna say, like the Chargers, they were middle of the pack and explosive plays last season. Herbert was like average in an average depth of target, so A dot. But like these these last two seasons for Miami, like to a tongue about though, has just not pushed the ball down field at all. He's been at least a yard or more worst in the league average in A dot the last two years. Like it, I think that they're still, and like Miami kind of was still a fish and ish despite to me having like a big question mark at quarterback. And so it's like I think, yeah, it's like I think the Luster might be off. It's like, oh, you know, teams figured out all the motion all this, it's like I don't think that they were really of fully complete offense. And I think that they would have been a lot worse with somebody else there. And like, and it's not like the Chargers didn't use motion or anything last year, but they didn't get the most out of it. There are EPA numbers when using motion where not where you'd want it to be. I just think that from an upside case, going from sort of a, I mean, there were 20th and points per game last year, 21.8. To turn that around to the top five offense, I think that that's like a very simple thing. If you look at their average implied team total based on draft King sports book odds, it's 23.8 points per game, which is 11th. It's been then within a half point of being a top eight offense right there. They have some schedule issues though, which I think is also part of it. They play four teams coming off of a buy, which isn't great. That's tied for the most in the league. So that could also be kind of factored into that a little bit, but I think that they're very close here to being a top five offense. And there's a lot of ways you can get exposure to this team, but I know you like the Chargers as well. Oh yeah, super, super. I feel like I've been talking about the Chargers, you know, for weeks on the show and such, but it's important to call it out. This is to hear from someone else's voice and someone else's mind who's studying this stuff in just as much detail. Which coordinator though on the opposite end scares you? This one could be a little bit of a cop out, but I wanted to look at a team that I think we have some good expectations for, who they just might not be as efficient as maybe we would want them to be. But I'm looking for this one specifically for the Falcons, Tommy Reese. Obviously we love B-John. He's a consensus top two pick. Drake London, I've always been a fan of his. He's a firmly a second rounder. And then speaking of great tight and prospects, Kyle Paz, coming off of a career year. And like I think some, I've seen multiple people kind of, they're not people, but like vibes of like, he's never really called plays, Tommy Reese. Like he did, he called plays in college for four years across Notre Dame and Alabama. He took over last year with the Browns down the stretch. And it's like it, it wasn't great. It was slightly worse than their first half of the year. Cleveland was bottom three in EPA per play from week 10 onward, which again, you have the kind of account for the context of this team that he was calling plays for. But it was a downgrade from where it was slight, but still a downgrade. Their pass rate over expectation, dip from minus 3.6 to minus 4.2 after the play call or change as well. And ultimately, like, I don't love this quarterback room for this team. And I think you have to trust that like an offensive play collar is going to get the most out of a sub-par quarterback situation. Yeah. That's where things get sort of thrown into question. Last year, the Falcons averaged 20.8 points per game. It was 24th. If you look at their implied team total across all their games from Draft King Sportsbook, implied team total on average 21.2. That's also 24th. Like it's not just me saying, hey, you know, let's back off of the Falcons. It's like, it's kind of they were subpar, they have question marks at quarterback. And it doesn't mean that I don't like B-John. I'm going to take them second if I don't take, like if I can't get Jumir Gibbs first, I'll just take B-John second. I still like Drake London. I think the market shares will be there. What I think is probably more likely is these guys have good target shares, but the offense falls out a little bit to it can't push the ball down field. Like he can't make plays or I'm not the biggest, like Michael, Michael Panics fan either. So like, I just think it's more of a, this team could go from like 20th and offense to like 20th and offense and whenever you can have the market shares be elite, that's awesome. But from like a pure high end upside standpoint, it's funny because we talked about like take away the biggest play. It's like B-John Robinson can have an 80 or touch down any moment, but that's not really what Drake London does. Kyle Pitts is starting to do a little bit more of that. But I just think that maybe the easiest way to sum it up is like I've been leaning more towards you, mere Gibbs compared to B-John Robinson. Like maybe I pumped the brakes a little bit on Kyle Pitts following things up, which is probably silly because of how Cleveland used their tight ends in the past. But I'll just say like they were still a below average A dot team down the stretch with sugar Sanders taken over. I think there are enough question marks where like maybe this is just a slower run heavy offense where you love the market shares, but the touchdowns, the big yardage isn't always there week to week. Yeah, I think even with Drake London that like, it's he's one of those cases for me where it's not so much that you change his ranking within the position, but you change where you draft him versus the running backs, right where like I'd rather have Chase Brown than Drake London, you know, where I'd rather have the upside of that running back situation than going with Drake London, given the question marks surrounding that offense in general, right? I think Drake London's phenomenal. I've been a huge backer, true through people probably been sick of me talking about Drake London, but I do think that there is that that sort of like X factor of change within this, this team and this offense that we have to at least consider. Now I could go the other direction of course, but I think that the day that you just presented makes sense that that we should be at least a little bit nervous. Is there a coordinator or play collar and a player match that you're really excited about like specific player position with a coordinator? Yeah, I've mentioned this on and discord. And I think this will make kitchen pretty happy, but Wanda Robinson with Brian Dable, Robinson had kind of by necessity last year, but he underwent a pretty legitimate role change. Yeah. And I don't know that it's fully being thought of as that. Like yes, I'll be the first one to say, you know, you got to look at this player with the alpha healthy, but I don't know how you just sort of put the toothpaste back in the tube with Wanda. He was a sub 6.2 yard A dot guy. It actually was a career low in 2024 at 4.7 yards. That ballooned to eight and a half last year. We had to step up again without moving neighbors, but he answered the call. He had 140 targets identical. 2024 or 2025. He had one fewer catch in 2025 than 2022, 2024, but he cleared a thousand yards last year was 315 more than in 2024 in this new role. He wasn't a touchdown dependent guy. Had four touchdowns. He's probably not gonna be a huge touchdown squarer, but like I don't know that he's just for, and first of all, speaking of touchdown squarer, like he's new for a two year correction and touchdown luck as well, which doesn't just look at like your yardage or catches for me, it actually looks like where you are on the field, which is nice because there are for the fact that he's not gonna be getting a ton of end zone targets, but Carnell Tate, as you've mentioned, wasn't the highest target share guy even accounting for like other Ohio state receivers? There's no reason that Wondail can't have like a 22% target share, even if like Tate is at 24%. Yeah. So I think that Robinson is a really interesting piece who it's not it's not fun really to draft them, but I've kind of ended up with a lot of Wondail so far this season. Yeah, I like that call. All right, early bestball drafts. Give me a couple players that you are drafting early. I mean, maybe Wondail is one of them and then why you're drafting them. Yeah, so Wondail is one of them, but also Roma Dunze. Yeah. He's standing out to me. Me too. I love Colson Loveland. You know, contractually, I have to love Luther Burton. You do. That is very true. Yes, you would you would be let go from the company if you didn't. Yes, but but I do. It's just he did a lot of stuff on smaller samples and I think that's relevant and you get rid of DJ Moore here, but Rome, a Dunze, has been like a tragic underperformer in the touchdown call in the last two years. He's top four in touchdowns under expectation among receivers, but when active last year, so going back to like that, bringing a full circle here of looking at like actual relevant shares. Like if you look at this team, when Rome was active, he was the number one in a 24% target share, 38% area shared was targeted on 36% of the team's plays from inside the five. Just he's always being like overthrown or missed in the end zone. I think that has to change eventually. So I've been getting a lot of Rome. I've also begun a lot of Marvin Harrison Jr. He's another touchdown regression candidate, new coordinator. He cannot be used worse. Marvin Harrison Jr. cannot be used worse than he has been. And when fully healthy last year, he had a 22% target share, 39% area shared. He was averaging over 100 areas per game. He's going to get more involved in different ways he has to, but also there's a lot of underlying good information and data in his profile that I think people are kind of not necessarily believing in. And the final one I've been kind of getting in early on is Tyler Warren. He was by far the biggest underperformer in the expected touchdown column for me among tight ends in 2025. He gets creative touches. He can get carries. Daniel Jones probably going to not run as much. And I love like I love Alec Pierce speaking to shout out Jim again. Like we've been kind of OG Alec Pierce guys. But when you look at the sample with Daniel Jones and Alec Pierce playing over 60% of the snaps, we're in lead the team last year with a 22% target share, 31% target share inside the five. I just think that like he lead, he could very easily lead this team in target share. And he's being drafted as like, he's like a tear below the other elite tight ends. So I've been getting a lot of Tyler Warren as well. I'm in full agreement with all of these players. Roman Dunesay, like I'm drafted. I have a Dunesay ranked ahead of JMO for instance right now. So like that's a almost a fool round in equity. Rooms like late fifth, you know, on draft games and JMO's like four or five turn type player. The Marvin Harrison Jr. thing I want to touch on is really interesting because you know, I talked about him on the show this week earlier this week about the stuff that I learned from from projections. And I talked about Michael Wilson. And I feel like the community is emotionally bullish with Michael Wilson. And they're using the coaching change as almost a reason as to why we should be bullish because it's a clean slate. And so they're just going to go by talent, right? And they're going to say Michael Wilson greater than Marvin Harrison Jr. Which I think is only happening because we had such absurd expectations for Marvin Harrison Jr. Because realistically, their peripherals were almost identical last year. But if we're being honest, those peripherals from for for Michael Wilson happened when Marvin Harrison Jr. was out, right? When he's healthy, their peripherals aren't even close. I mean, Marvin Harrison Jr. looks way better than than Michael Wilson does. So I actually am looking at the coaching change as a positive thing because we saw the talent profile sitting there for Marvin Harrison Jr. coming out. And maybe he needs a change to be able to be unlocked in some way. The different like last year I was fading Marvin Harrison Jr. I didn't I think I had like two or three percent in bestball. And but he was also a late third round pick, right? Now he goes like late six into the seventh sometimes. And that to me is is a chef's kiss place to get a highly talented prospect entering year three with so many changes around him. So I'm with you on on each of those players. Let's look at the players to avoid players that you're not getting as much of. I have been pretty scared off of Devon H. Anne, which is not like groundbreaking, but I just like find it really hard to click a running back on a team with offensive expectations like they have their average implied team total is 18.1. It is fourth worst in the league going into the season. It's a 2.3 point drop from where they were last year. They weren't even that great. Like now H. Anne huge over performer by expected touchdowns because he can break plays and mix the fat. And like that's probably what he's going to have to do. It's not really the type of profile that I want to lean on. And I think my biggest thing is like he could have good shares, but he could actually finally have some weaker efficiency because who is taking any attention away from Devon H. Yeah, like every team is just going to be like we stop H. Anne we win. Like that's probably what it's probably just Malik Willis, right? Like because he's like that. That's that's the fear is his efficiency on the ground. If they're running like RPO, they're doing a lot of stuff like I think they're like I said in the podcast. I think they're me extremely extremely run heavy, even if they're bad. Even when they're bad, we should say. Like they're probably so going to be extremely run heavy. H. Anne you bring him up those is a good call out because I've gone back and forth. Like you can see the range of outcomes, but I think there is some fear that like you're kind of banking on, I don't know 18 20% target share for him to really be able to hit in a big way. And there's so many good running backs going around him. So we talk about my process and everything. It kind of goes back to the chip cally like score points, but it's like we need touchdowns. Like touchdowns are at the end of the year or like what separate difference makers. Yeah, it's there like yardage outlier shore. But like most of the non top three guys, it's did they score. It's like well, where their offense is in position to score, that's a big part of it. Otherwise, you have to break these long plays. And I know A. Chan can do it. But you talk about like a chase brown. Like his his workload when like when healthy and when the team caught better was so good and his team's going to score way more points and he's going to have way more chances. I've gotten to the point where like with the early round running backs, I'm trying to not overthink it. I think chase brown is a don't overthink it kind of player. Yeah, it's going to be one of those like it's almost like a James Cook where it's like, yeah, well, he doesn't get like it's a different situation, different type of player. But it's like for me, I've always been like, yeah, James Cook James, it's like his team's going to score a lot of points. He's very good. Like that's a different situation than Devon A. Chan has to go out and make everything happen for himself. And like their team, their average and polite team total this year is 24.4 points. They're going to score probably an extra touchdown in game compared to Miami. Yeah. And even I don't know if Miami is going to end up averaging almost, you know, or over 18 points of game. We'll see. I hope they do. I hope it's a fun experiment. But see me. I'm not really there with Devon A. Chan. Yeah. I dig it. I dig it. All right. Before I let you go, I need one hot take for the 2026 season. I was not prepared for this and not a big hot take kind of guy. Let me say, can I say George Pickens outscore CD lamb? That's a hot take. He's that hot enough. Okay. Yeah, that's hot. That's very hot. All right. All right, Brandon. This was great. Let everyone know where they can find you. You're obviously doing stuff for late round fantasy football and we will have a lot of announcements coming as I alluded to on the late round show this week. But talk about what you're working on and where people can find you. Yeah. I've been in the trenches. It was kind of crazy for you to say I've been here almost six months because I'm like, yeah, I've been pretty head down like working on stuff in the background. I'm just now having my first first show here. And it's like, yeah, but I've been doing a bunch of stuff that they kind of needed done to get ready for the, you know, the NFL draft, but now the season. So I'm working on a lot of stuff off, you know, this week I have schedule analysis in the newsletter that will already be out by this point, looking at offensive coordinator deep dives in probably different ways. I did actually do a couple months ago at this point. Kind of a high level look at offensive coordinators. It's a lot of like regression based stuff that will probably see some changes, but it could just kind of regress back. But and then yeah, we got some some fun stuff cooking for the draft guide and upcoming season. And I guess I guess we'll shout out my socials among ex at Godola 13 GD ULA13 and I'm on blue sky at Godola. Very rare though. Brandon's not getting in the in the Twitter street. as much as as as I should I should just become like tweet stats guy, but even then people will be like, you're stupid for saying this. I'm like, I'm just trying to share information guys. Not worth it. Yeah, just not worth it. I feel that enough. I feel that. But yeah, Brandon, thank you. I appreciate the time we obviously talk constantly throughout the day. So this is just another avenue in which to do that. But also while you know, learning some takes and learning more about the game. But for anyone not following me, late round QB on Twitter, make sure you're checking out late round.com. Make sure you are subscribed to that newsletter because like Brandon said, there's articles and newsletters coming out all the time from there. Otherwise, everyone, enjoy your weekend. And thanks for tuning in. and I heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.