001: Larry Clark's "Kids" (1995)

(upbeat music) - Hello everyone, welcome to the Fashion Grunge podcast. I am Lauren. - I'm Jules, I'm Jay. - And we're gonna be talking about Larry Clark's kids today. I'm really excited to talk about this one. It's one of my favorite films. And I know that everyone has a different experience with it. So I can't wait to hear everyone's thoughts. And I hope that people out there have seen it. If you haven't, it's great. There's the trailer on YouTube. I'll put the link in the notes. And yeah, I mean, a little backstory. It's 1995, directed by Larry Clark, who is a photographer first. This was his first feature written by Harmony Korean. And probably the most well-known actress in the film is Chloe 70. The other people, oh and Rosario Dawson, sorry. Rosario Dawson is in it as well. And I think Leo Fitzpatrick, you may or may not know. And Justin Pierce, who is one of the other main characters. But yeah, so I guess we'll, what are your thoughts on it? I guess I kind of want to ask you all. - Yeah, I guess we'll just jump into it. - Yeah, yeah, let's just totally jump into it. - So at first I was very hesitant to see this movie because I knew it was going to be intense. - Had you heard that from anyone? Or is it just kind of a feeling you had? - I think it was just kind of, I think I heard it from you, maybe like another person. But I just remember being like, I saw the trailer and I was like, this is going to be intense. But I love Chloe. So I almost feel like it's like a ride of passage to be like a Chloe fan. You like have to see the movie. I'm glad I saw it. But it was what I was expecting. Like it was intense. But I am glad to have seen it. But yeah, I think we should just like dig it. And I think I was super like, it's just so much like this movie could not be made today. - No. - It should not be made today. No one should ever try to like recreate kids. - What are your thoughts on it? - I actually watched it in the '90s. I don't remember when exactly, but I'm really sure that they made us watch in school. I was like, you're like, we watch Transposing as well. - In the UK, they made you watch it. - No, this is in Mexico. - Oh, in Mexico. - Yeah. - Oh wow. - 'Cause this is like, I moved to the UK in '99. - Oh, so okay, it was already out. - So I remember a Transposing was played in my Catholic school. It was like, I'm not a school. But that's how much they were like, you shouldn't never do drugs. And this is what you need to watch this movie. I like, they made us watch it. We were really young. And I'm pretty sure they, maybe not in that school, but we definitely, they made us watch this, like in school, in high school. So I must have been nine, 14 or 15. - I must have been really awkward 'cause they're your age, you know, when you're watching in school. - That's kind of, yeah. I mean, I definitely felt like that was so scary, but at the same time, it was, it was actually wasn't. Like, I'm actually more like in shock now, watching it again after like 20 years, because kind of 'cause I'm old. That was like 20 years ago, anyway. Because we were doing that. Like, I had friends that were crazy. Like, we used to like, go to school and go to someone's house and drink and like, take pills or whatever. - Yeah. - Like, there's always someone there in that film that reminds you of a friend that you had of someone you knew. - Yeah, that was something I could relate to. - It's so relatable like that. - Yeah, like this movie, so I was one year old when this movie came out. - Whoa! - I was born in 1994. So, so it is a little bit like shocking, but honestly, I don't think at, like as time has gone on, I don't think like the teenage experience has changed. The only difference that I would see is like, I wasn't as like old, like I was a little bit older than these, like characters when like they're a party. And like, there are characters that look like they're like fucking eight years old, like a party. Like, I was like, you know, around like 17, 18, when like I was doing crazy shit, but I was also in like a very like isolated area. Like I wasn't in the city, but it kind of is interesting seeing like, just like how animalistic teenagers are. - Yeah. - That's really what I took out of this. I was like, oh my God, teenagers are wild animals. Like I hated them when I was a teenager and like I hated them when I was a kid and I hate them as an adult, you know? - I'm scared of packs of teenagers. - Yeah, teenagers were terrified. - But I see them together. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's kind of weird. I don't know. I feel like it's just, it's just, it just feels like a real time capsule. I, the one thing I really love about it, I've seen it, I mean, a lot. I had it on DHS tape. And then I remember getting this, the DVD. And I was just, I don't know. Not that I was obsessed with it, but I guess I felt like I identified with a lot of the characters. And I was like, wow, this is kind of, not a sugar-coated version of what, it's kind of like growing up in a really like, you know, urban area, obviously not New York, but I grew up in DC and it's kind of, you know, it's another kind of, you've got a Metro. You can just get on it and go anywhere. Your parents are working. They've got no phones. I mean, this is '95. So there's just a whole lot of like running around and going places and asking people, where is this person, where is that person? And, you know, just kind of flying by the city of your pants a little bit. But it definitely is, is really interesting to see it. I think this is actually, this year is the 25th anniversary. So I think they're gonna do something. Like, either we release it or do something, I don't know, I'm sure we'll probably hear about it, but just it's really weird. It's just really weird to see now being so old. And I don't know, just seeing like, how things have changed, but also why it's really interesting to make films about teenagers. I mean, it's just, it's always a topic that you kind of, can always explore. There's a lot to say about teenagers, a lot to say what they get into and what they don't. And then, you know, they even have some things now. Like, I know you haven't seen Euphoria and you watch part of it. I really, I didn't like it at first, but it almost feels like kind of a new, like how Gen Z is now, like taking pills, being super sexually promiscuous. Just now it's through text or now it's through like, internet porn and they're getting money for it. You know, they're like entrepreneurs now. They're, they're just doing it for their hormones and for their shock factor and just telling their friends, like they bag this person, this person and like, virgins and telly's case. But now it just seems like they're still doing it. I mean, some people think, oh no, you know, I know where my kids are now. It's cool, like no, you still don't know everything. They have secret lives on the internet now, which is probably almost the same thing that they're doing in the open that we're seeing. But yeah, it's, I mean, I like watching it. So I'm really excited to see how you guys felt about it. - I read, I mean, I don't think I can say these will ever be one of my favorite films because it obviously so that role and like, shocking and like, that character is so unlike, like, he's just awful. - Oh, telly? - Yeah, I think telly is really what, like, makes it hard for me to call it a favorite. Like, it definitely feels like an important movie. Like, I feel like I just watched something very important, like, just in like, cinema. - Yeah. - But like, telly was definitely just like, I called hard, like, runners that I do not like. - Yeah, I do not like him. - I think that obviously is the reason why I don't think it could ever be one of my favorite films, but I love the film so much because he reminds, he's like, reminds you of like, being a teenager. - Yeah. - And like, obviously I grew up in the city as well. So it was like the same dynamic. And like, before social media or like phones, you used to like, go to your friend's house and like, knock on the door, hoping they'll be there. But you didn't really know. And then the mom would be like, oh no, he's going to like this person's house and then you go there and you just be like hanging out. You'll be outside, just outside people hanging apart. And like, I'm sure we all had that like a partner. - Yeah. - He used to go on skate because I have one too. I mean, I used to skate like roller skating, but it wasn't really good at it. But it's the same dynamic. Like, you have friends and you're out all day, like seeking adventure, like going to someone's house, drinking, like, skating, watching films. I don't know, like, all of that is like, it's just very nostalgic, I suppose. Like, it just made me think about like being a teenager and like, things that are now judged and I would be like so horrified. Like, if I have kids now, I'll be like, I know what they get up to. But then I was doing a lot of those things as well. I like, I guess I just forgot about it. So I watch it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - You can't shelter them from it either 'cause the more you try to keep it away from them, they're gonna just want to know. - Even though I don't really like this generation, like, just how they interact with internet and everything, with the internet and everything, I also do the thing that teenagers have so walk. And then like, I feel like it would be really hard to be raped by like someone in school because I didn't even think it would get to that point because there would be like, oh my God, he tried to write me and then it would be like, kids have really aware of these things of so many of these issues, like they wouldn't, you know what I mean, I also still feel like they're still very much like tellies all over the place. I think they're just a little sneakier now. - I'm sure they are. - But don't you think like, teenagers now I'm more conscious of like, what's going on, like. - I think some are. - I think some are, but I think they're still deep down that person who doesn't want to like, be seen, you know, who wants to be liked by, you know, whoever. - This older boy. - Yeah, this older guy and maybe if it's not, maybe it's not necessarily forced on them. And I guess when we're taught about rape now, it seems like a very violent, like it's a stranger. It's someone you don't know. It's someone who's like, you know, like beating you up and like physically assaulting you. But obviously they're different degrees of that, you know, this still happens, like what happened with the guy from Stanford who raped the girl who was passed out behind like the trash can, yeah, the dumpster, yeah. And he got like, hardly any jail time. So I mean, that does happen. It was almost the same thing that happened in the end of this film where. - Oh yeah. - So some things are still obviously happening. - But I feel like now we keep have a phone all the time of them, they film everything. And I feel like to a certain extent it does help because people feel like they're being watched. You know what I mean? Like someone is misbehaving at a party. They will stop because someone is filming them and they're like, oh, I also do thing like, we were quite naive, like in the 90s, not naive, but more naive than this generation. - Yeah. - So like those guys in the movie, you know, like there are guys that grew up in the theater but they're kind of naive still. Like the 13 year old girl. - Oh yeah, the one that he was talking about. - Now the people here are so sharp. Because they grew up, they've grown up with the internet and like, social media. - Yeah, and they're exposed to like pornography, usually, like that we near that age. And like, I mean, that's true. - This is why I feel like a lot of those things wouldn't happen now, like. - I feel like it, I mean, I'm sure it does. I'm sure it does, but I feel like it wouldn't happen in the same way. It would just probably, it just probably would happen a little differently. And we would categorize it as one thing and they probably categorize it as another. I mean, I don't know, like I don't even know how, like, what, 12 and 13 year old girls are, you know, think right now. I don't know how they're taught about assault consent. I mean, there's things that we just didn't learn about in school, we didn't learn about consent. That wasn't a thing in health class where, you know, the teacher says, you know, say no and, you know, that's it, like that it should stop. We didn't know that. Now I feel like it's everywhere, there's me too. They can see it on Twitter. They can, now there's cancel culture where it's just thrown out where it's like, no, that's not okay. And, you know, X communicate that person and like kind of call them out on it. You know, don't just be silent about it. - Just, sorry. - Oh, sorry, what were you gonna say? - No, just, I just think of like, how much information like teenagers now have. And like, they just not so much more. Like, I just feel like you would never have like a, what's her name? The 16-year-old, the number, the activist. Oh my God, oh. - Oh, Greta? - Greta, like, that was a nice thing. - Oh, yeah, climate, yeah, climate change. - There's 16-year-olds, they're activists, you know? - Yeah, we have, like, in our way more selfish. We just didn't think about anyone else. - Like, I just feel like, especially women, they really just speak off, you know? And like, back then, I feel like you were so scared. - Yeah, you were seen as like, difficult. - Yeah. - Now it's like, empowering to- - It's empowering to accept, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. Do you think, do you think, if the younger generation like saw this movie, do you think they would learn a lot from it, or do you think they would just be, like, this is an old movie, I don't wanna watch it. I'd be kind of interested to bring in like, my sister, who's like 18. - Oh yeah. - And like, have her watch it. - Yeah. - And like see what she thinks about it. - Or she knows anyone who's watched it or even heard of it. - Yeah. - Like yeah, does she have friends who even know about it? - I feel like it depends as well because like, this film is not in New York and they got to rapes. And they're like, you know, they're drinking, doing pills, whatever. Like, I don't think all kids do that here. Like, well, I mean- - Well, they do Molly and they do stuff. - I feel like they do pills, right? - I feel like she'll do it. - Teenagers and drugs are always going to be- - Yeah. - Yes, like every teenager wants to experiment with drugs such as the way teenage minds work. - That's curiosity. - Yeah, and curiosity and like, but I feel like with like the newer generation, like, we're just talking about phones, like how, like, there weren't phones. You'd have to go watch your friend. Like, now, you know, there's more of like a, like, isolation, like, so do you, like, I don't know if things would happen, like, at this magnitude anymore, because it's like, you could still be having that same party, but it's like on your Snapchat and crazy shit's happening. And that's Snapchat, you know? - Yeah, that's true. - I guess we've done it. - Yeah, we're just speculating, yeah, we, if you're a teenager and you're out there, like, hit, hit us up. What are you doing? You can be an anonymous name. It's totally cool. I just kind of want to know what they're up to. As far as going back to the film itself, I guess, 'cause we can talk about, I guess, Gen Z, I mean, forever, but what did you feel about how, how did you feel about how it opened, like the opening scene, which is just basically tally, making out with the squirrel who looks entirely way too young, but as an opening scene to a film. - I think it's amazing. - What do you think? - Yeah, I think it's amazing. Like, you don't see, there's so many things that they don't in this film, that you don't see anywhere. Even, I mean, he really just did something that I don't think was done before. Like, people either make documentaries or films, but this has like a really raw kind of documentary, like, it's all on plan, and they're just like following people with that camera. And I really like the opening scene. But one thing that I thought was kind of interesting was every time tally was in bed with a girl, he had his legs up on her. And to me, that kind of seemed almost like a foreshadowing of just like tally's personality. That first shot, just like seeing his legs like that to me, almost like, I know that's kind of a odd thing to talk about. - He does it again. - He does it again. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're in the same position. - And it almost seems like a power thing. And I almost feel like it opens up to like, who tally is. - Yeah, and that's why he likes a virgin. 'Cause they don't know any better. - Yeah, I know it is that, but I actually feel that they've done that because they don't want to show like a 13-year-old like a naked. - Oh, yeah. It's a way of like, not really showing, but kind of gives you the idea that she's obviously naked. But, you know, it's like we're not disturbing as you see it. - Well, yeah. I mean, I guess you couldn't. - And I probably, you couldn't. - Yeah, you couldn't. Yeah, there's certain like sensors, I guess that you had to abide by. But I like how it transitions. I mean, I really like, it's really disgusting and grows how the guys talk about women and sex in general. And I like how it just, it's just weird that Caspha is just waiting for him on the stoop while he sleeps with this girl. - So it's disgusting. - Yeah, and he knows full well that she's like 13 and that they're talking about her like barely like, being like entering puberty, like, and they just don't think that it's weird. I mean, they just, I guess they think it's okay. I guess they like Telly for it. Like they kind of praise him for it. He's known through his group of friends as like, this is what he does, what he likes to do. And there are lots of guys who were like that. - Yeah, it makes me, yeah, just watching this kind of like, open my eyes to being like, I hate men. (laughing) No, I don't hate men, but you know what I mean. - Like the mentality of like just a teenage boy, you know? - Yeah, just the like, it's just night and day of like how he's like persuading this young girl to like afterwards just being a complete pig with his like his friend. Like it was just so disturbing. Because yeah, that's real. I think all three of us have probably experienced like, seeing like, I mean, I'm inside of a family. - Yeah. - So you went to school with with friends who were like, spoke like that about women. - Yeah. - I hit them, talk like that. Like, but I also feel like that wouldn't happen now because men are so aware of like, I mean, maybe. - I don't know, when they're by themselves. - You say I love them from chat. - Yeah, that's a thing, when they're by themselves, I feel like you just don't, I mean, this is so awful and I'm going to completely embarrass and probably alienate like everyone that even like knows what I am into. But I'm watching the UK version of Love Island right now. - I know, I knew Love Island was going to come in. - No, this, this is a good point, is that okay. So it's obviously like a really cheesy like dating show, slash big brother where they're locked in this place. But when any little bit of physical interaction happens, like the genders split up, the girls all gather, the guys all gather and you can kind of see like, the way the girls like, oh, he kissed you, oh my God. And the way the guys are like, oh man, did you get that? Yeah, like, and they're, oh, early 20s. Like, they're not teenagers, like, they're still asking like that. - But I feel like that, I mean, maybe that, that really happened, but I never had any girlfriends that spoke so openly about sex. - Oh, you can't, yeah, when they show the girls talking about it. - It's just like, I don't know, like, I feel like that's not, that wasn't like a general rule. Like, I don't think I ever had, even like older, I'd never have friends that spoke about sex like that. - Like, when they show the girls talking about it. That's what I really like how they transition from the guys to the girls. - I feel like for the most part, women are more like, oh yeah, he was like, I mean, he lasted like two minutes or he was really good. - Yeah, I thought so. - And that going into detail where it's meant are really filthy and they just like talk about, like, you know, really gross stuff, like in the film. - Yeah. - But I don't think that's for most women. I don't, I mean, do you? - I've, I've had like charismatic conversations with friends, I guess you could say. - Charismatic? - Like, like, just like, like, not like, how they're talking about sex. But like, yeah, going into detail with, you know, friends and like, laughing about it, 'cause sex is kind of funny. - Yeah. - Like, sex is a funny act. And like, sometimes I think it's looked at as like, a really serious thing, but if like, you look at for what it is, kind of funny. But I did see almost kind of like a, like, and maybe that's just the movie type of edit to it. Like, I don't, I feel like they're almost trying to talk like men in the movie, the women. Like, like, yeah, exactly, yeah, we can talk about sex, but yeah, I'm not gonna be like nasty about it. - No. - I feel women for the most part don't talk about that. Maybe they say like, oh, he, oh, they lasted like a few minutes. Oh, he had a small, or big, whatever. But they don't, you know. - I, I mean, yeah, I guess it depends, 'cause I definitely had a friend who was just like that. I'm not, but she was, and she would totally volunteer it up for, you know, like me and all our groups of friends. But we look at co-ed group, like she would say in front of guys. I thought it was really, like, kind of, it's cool now, but I feel like definitely then it was really, I really like how you're watching Tally be super gross with that girl, then you watch him in Casper, walk in the street and talk about it. And then I love how you're just like, theic factors just so high, and they're like, oh my God, when is this gonna end? And then you just automatically switch to the girls, and you're like, thank God, they're like literally saying that men are shit too, like, they're not, like, they're not just like, oh, you know, I really like him. - Yeah, he's really cool. They're just like, no, man, he sucked. Like, he was this and that. He was like, ragging on me and like, screaming Sunday, bloody Sunday, like, fuck it. - Yeah, that was really funny. - Yeah, like, so they're, they're kind of have the same, I guess, feeling about it, which I thought was really cool. I think that this is like super terrible to say. I think when it kind of really shifted with women talking openly about sex with sex in the city. Like, that's why it was so big, it's 'cause like, no one has ever seen like a scripted drama where, like, four very secure women are actually talking very in depth about like. - That's kind of the reason why I like it. - Yeah, I mean, that's why it was so big, 'cause no one had ever heard women talk like that. And so openly and so like, dismissive and kind of like, whatever, you know, it wasn't like a serious thing. It was very like, you know, you had like Samantha, who was, you know, super empowered and super like, yeah, I'm like a dude. You know, I'll sleep with whoever, I don't care. So, but this is cool that they're younger. - That's really cool that he'd be there. He wanted to show both sides. - Yeah. - And not be like, taking a side like, from a man's point of view. - Yeah, and he's a man written by him too. - Yeah, exactly, yeah. - Which is really rare, 'cause you can tell sometimes when he's like, a male director, 'cause he's very much like, from a guy's point of view. Like, even visually, how they shoot things, you know? Always like, focusing on like, I don't know, like, make a girl. So, like, you know what I mean? Same with photographers. - Yeah, that's true. And he's a photographer too. Like, that's the one thing I like that this was his feature. First, like Larry Clark's first feature. And then he's coming from the world of photography, which I think is like, really makes it, yeah. And I just love the way the sequence is shot. When you see Telly and Casp, people walking, like, the camera's in the street. You know, and they're on the sidewalk, and you see cars like passing in front of the camera. Like, like, you really are sitting in a car, looking at these two guys and just hearing their conversation. And you really see just a lot of New York, you see them in that, you know, - Which is like, yeah, I mean, I was, you can relate to it, 'cause you, like, leave there. - Yeah, yeah, you totally see those kind of things. Like, - Did you leave that crossing it? - I lived at the same, yeah, across the street from where Telly and Casp go into 77th street. So I live right there, and it basically looked the same. I mean, I don't know now. I mean, I'm sure it probably looks really different, but it's just, it's very New York. You know, the weird guy in the subway. - Oh yeah, I love that. - Yeah, with the accordion. - Yeah, that was cool. And the guy with no legs, who was asking for change. - Which you see always in New York. Like, yeah, but just that. - Yeah, people asking for change and everything. I mean, just a vaginal owner, no one's wearing anything of it. - Yeah, like, - Oh my gosh. - That's the thing, I really love about the film. And I think maybe that's why you, - Yeah. - So, like, you know, it's one of my films, because it's '90s, so '90s. Like, everything about it, like, fashion. I used to wear outfits like that, you know? - Yeah. - And wear, like, ring your t-shirts. And like, I mean, I had, like, kind of, Indian or Asian, like, landscape prints in my t-shirt. So, like, long, long sleeve tops. Or, like, baggy pants, or the same, like, call my hair like that, like, really short. And like, I used to have, like, hair clips, or whatever on the side. And like, in those colors. I don't know how, like, they got to raves. And I love that music so much. And I used to be into that, I mean, still am. But I don't got to raves anymore, 'cause I'm old. But, it's just so cool, - Yeah. - I could go to raves, but, I mean, you know, it's just so cool, like, fashion, music. Like, they really capture everything. Even like, when the guys are hanging out, they're playing what, what, the night? - Yeah, I think they're playing a skate video. I'm pretty sure it's-- - Yeah. - And that's really alien workshop video or something. I don't know, I mean, I'm sure someone who's, like, well, more well versed in skating will probably correct me. But I think it's, like, one of the, like, it's like one of the big skate glory days, I think. I think it's glory days, something like that. Yeah, it's like a really famous skate video that all the guys are watching. And you see that skate culture too. Like, when they're in Washington Square Park, like, Harold Hunter, who's also in it, was a really famous skater. I think he was on "Zoo York." And Justin Pierce was also a skater. I think that's where they met. Like, Larry saw them skating or something in the park. - And that's so cool, too. - Yeah. - He had, like, real people doing, you know, like, being part of the film, I think, unlike that, or the film, these had the '90s, so it was cool. - The '90s? - The '90s? - I refused to watch it. - It's like, yeah, I watched it. - Oh, you did watch it. - I did. And I can honestly say that it was so bad. - I really hate nowadays that whenever there's a film that's supposedly a gritty interpretation of teenagers, they always say it's this generation's kids. They always compare kids to everything. - But it was a feeling, like, guys, I don't know, like, people don't know any better 'cause they were in a round when this film came out. And a lot of people thought, "This is kind of what you're hearing." - But Jonah knew us. He's a rage. - He's a rage. - Yeah, but I'm talking about, like, people who watch it, and they're like, "Oh, yeah, they like it, yeah." - They don't have anything to compare it to, you know? - So to them, he's my role in R.C. and, like, real or whatever. But obviously, they weren't even around in the '90s, and also, they've never seen this before. - That's like, you know, if someone sees, you know, like a woman who can play guitar, they're immediately gonna be like, "Oh, you're just like P.J. Harvey." - Mm-hmm. - But maybe that person plays something completely different. You know, I feel like it's something really similar to that. - Mm-hmm, yeah, it's like you always try to compare it to something that-- - It was like the way we shot-- there was nothing really there. Like, at least if there was, like, an interesting story or the way we filmed-- - Oh, mid '90s? - I feel like there was nothing to it. There was no substance, nothing. Like, it wasn't even, like, cool. - It wasn't even, like, a documentary style, like, your followers. - I just honestly knew that. Or maybe it's because I've seen, like, a lot of films from the '90s, and I feel like, you can't even compare it, like-- - Yeah, because it's taking place in the '90s. It's not, like, it's a current day for Troyol. - Yeah. - It's like, it's supposed to be in the '90s. - Yeah. - But it's also what West Coast, too, right? - That's true, yeah. - Yeah, it's supposed to be, like, the LA scene. I was gonna watch it, like, just to hate watch it, because I already have a preconceived notion, but maybe, I think it's on Amazon. Maybe I'll just watch it. - I think I should just watch it. - Yeah, just to, like, see, yeah. I mean, 'cause maybe I'll be, like, okay, this is what California people, I guess, went through. I, when I think of California director, they think of Greg Iraqi, 'cause he's one of my favorites. But he creates these hyper, just, like, hyper-real situations, like, things that just don't make any sense, but you just kind of, you just go, you roll with it, with this just crazy kind of society that I always felt LA was growing up here. I mean, LA had this kind of, like, fantasy notion of, like, wow. It's really cool, it's sunny. All the screen music is coming out of there, especially in, like, the late '90s. Yeah, there was, like, no doubt. It was, everything was, like, bright colors. Like, it was, like, anti-grunge, you know, like, Kurt Cobain died, and it was very, like, we're done with that, being sad and mopey. Like, we're gonna be all happy, and we're gonna be all, like, you know, yeah, like, Clueless, like, those kind of clothes, you know, like, bright colors, like, you know, the person who was kind of, I guess, Tom Boyish was, like, Thai, and she was, like, looked down because, like, they tried to change her, 'cause it's, like, that's not what we're doing now, but she was from the East Coast, and Clueless, like, she moved from the East Coast, so, like, that was still, I guess, a thing happening there. But yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess I should watch 'em in '90s. I guess that's what we're, like, hmm, I guess we'll have fun. - I'll hate watch it with you. - Yeah, we'll totally hate watch it, and do, like, maybe we'll be surprised, maybe we'll be, like, okay, maybe I thought of it. - I mean, we'll come watch it together. - Yeah. - We'll watch you. - Yeah, and just see, like, yeah, just see how it holds up, you know? I also love the soundtrack of this film, too. - Yeah, it's really good. - Yeah, that was it. - It's really so much great music and all different genres, as well, which is just, like, one. And I love, like, that Rosario, those when he's in it, and that he's in it. - Yeah. - Really, I mean, they were really talented, and it's so cool that, you know, hey, a Chloe came out from that film, I mean. I don't think she's had a successful career, so naturally, like, Rosario. - Yeah, she's trying to, like, send city was kind of big, that was a big film, too. - Well, she had a real film. - Yeah, she was in a rant. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Why did she stand much? - But, I mean. - Did she do it with Shia Machete, or is that the other girl? - She was in Josie in the Pazacan. - Oh my gosh. - Yeah. - But she was, I mean, she was really great, and it's so much her role. - I don't know if you know what I'm talking about. - And then I was like, I was going to be. - I was going to be. - I was going to be. - What? - Yeah. Oh, when did it come out, though? - But I came out, so I was, like, eight, maybe, and a- - So, was that 2002, 2003? - Yeah, 2002, 2003, and, yeah, she played the basis, I think, and I was like. - Who else was in it? Was it, no, 'cause she was in it. - Terri, was in it. - Oh my god. - Fuck, Terri, you play the drummer. - Terri, wow. - Oh, thank you. - Cool, you're going to hear us pouring tea, or, I'm not doing anything weird. - Sorry. - That's okay. - Tea. - That was great. - Maybe I should watch that, too. It sounds like someone's peeing, right? - It's hilarious. It's kind of a funny movie because it's basically, like, it was kind of, I was, like, TRL was dying, and the whole, um, the whole, you know, setting of that movie is their subliminal messaging in the kids music. - Oh. - And- - I love that we're like, whoa! - This is cool. - But it's a great movie, and it's, like, very much, like, mainstream pop punk songs, like, very 2002, 2003. - Do they write them, or is it- - Yeah, they're all, like, original. - Oh, okay. - And, like, some band, I forget what the band was called, but they, they did the music for it, is we should do another podcast. - Yeah, okay. That's cool. I'm excited. - Anyway. - Yeah, sorry, I know that. - Well, I mean, that was, I guess, a lot more, you know, light than what we have to talk about. I also like the fact that, really early on, you find out that Rosario Dawson is kind of, like, the more promiscuous friend, and then, um, Chloe Sevene is going with her to get tested. - Like my heart. - For, yeah, for HIV. And I was just watching Reality Bites last night. I don't know if Jules F. you've seen Reality Bites? - With one owner, writer, and Ethan Hawke? - Oh, no. - Okay, that's another. And that came out in '94, but in, or maybe '93, something like that. But in that one, it's around the same time. Janine Garofalo is one of the roommates, and she's really promiscuous, and she goes and gets an AIDS test. It's a very, like, big, it's a very big topic that she's really worried when she's waiting for her test results, that she's, you know, gonna have AIDS. And it's like, she's just, like, thinking the worst, thinking the worst. So it really kind of shows, like, how much of the AIDS epidemic was a really focal point in a lot of young people's lives. Because I think, by the '90s, it had moved on from being, like, a disease that gay men got. It was now, like, everyone can get it, you know, because that's how it originally started. But I just, you kind of know going in that, okay, it's probably not gonna work out, obviously. Like, Rosario's probably not gonna be positive, just the way that it sets it up, like, overly permissuous girl most likely is not gonna get it. And then the girl who's literally had sex once, with one guy, fucking telly, and then you kind of, you see that, you know, she's in disbelief, she's just like, oh my gosh, my life is over. And I don't know if you can hear that well, but when she's on the phone calling her mom, when she gets her brother, and then she hangs up, and then she talks to Rosario on the street, and she's like, I just couldn't tell my little brother that I was gonna die, and like, I'm not gonna make his lunches anymore. Yeah. Because like, it's like a death sentence. Yeah, at that point it was like, there's nothing I can do. And then you realize, oh my god, telly is literally just passing this on. To everyone, yeah, and he's done it just earlier in the day, so, and then the whole film becomes like, a kind of cat mouse, like, her trying to catch up to him to tell him. And, yeah, and we just watched a video about, with Harmony Karina, and he was talking about how it was, you know, obviously it couldn't be made today for a lot of reasons, but because of the phone, like, she would just call him on the phone. To tell him, yeah, I'm positive, get tested, I mean, not get tested, like, it's you, and, but then, you know, that's what kind of makes the movie so great, because you're always wondering, like, is he ever gonna find out? And would he even care if he found out? I mean, we don't even know if she told him, like, his behavior just seems very like, whatever, you probably slept with someone else, it's probably not me. Like, you know, he just seems like that kind of dickish guy, who would just assume that it's not him, and that she's done something with someone else, he probably gave it to her, but, yeah, it's just-- Yeah, and that's why, that's like another reason why I feel like it's so relatable, like, because I have friends like that, we used to go, like, go and see it with them, for more support. And, like, all of that is just so, like, real, like, everything that goes through your mind when you go and get tested, and, like, you're young, and you're just so immature, and you're like, you just don't think, you know? No. And I think this is why, I mean, looking back, I mean, you think that you're young, and you definitely are well young, like, I don't know, like, you're 14 or 15, and you have the school playing this film, and it must have been so bad, like, you know, like, HIV, and, like, AIDS, kind of, I don't know, it must have been so bad, the time that they fell that was showing this film to, like, teenagers was, like, a good thing, you know? Yeah, to be, like, one time can infect you. Yeah, this is why they used to tell us this film, and I used to hear it all the time. But, I mean, yeah, there's so many things about the film that you're like, oh, yeah, that's like my friend, wherever, I mean, that's my other friend, you know, and that happened to this person. I mean, maybe in smaller towns, he's in like that. I don't know. I don't know, but I feel like in smaller towns, from what I know, is that drugs and sex are way more prevalent, because there's literally nothing to do. But I feel like that's in the US, maybe. Oh, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know how it is in other countries, like, what. I mean, through, like, alcohol and drugs in the UK, but, like, you get pregnant, and now it's like. Oh, yeah, it's like getting pregnant. In like, 99, everyone was getting pregnant here. That's crazy. That was, like, so crazy. In England? Yeah, in England. Wow. I mean, especially in the suburbs. Like, that was, like, a thing. And you see so many, like, 15 year olds with a proud. 15? 15, yeah. Wow. And, like, I don't think. I mean, I don't know, already in Mexico, because I grew up in Mexico City, but. You do hear girls getting pregnant at 14 or 15, but. I'm not really drugs like that much. I mean. Yeah. You do, but it's not like this. Like, it's just different. I don't know. And that, what's not even connected with drugs? Like, the whole sex aspect of the film, like, tell he's not high. Neither is the girl. Oh, yeah. He's not drugging. No, it's not. They're not all drunk. This is literally what they're doing sober. Like, she wasn't coarse. Like, you know, they're all openly talking about it. Like, yeah, we chose to do this. And then Rosario, like, says, you know, she's been having unprotected sex. And, you know, like, you know, it wasn't. It wasn't, like, he co-inced her not to. Like, she knows, like, yeah. Yeah. It wasn't, you know. So, it's just. It's just really crazy how when they tell Jenny, who's Chloe 70, that she's positive. Like, you can just see her face, like. I mean, she's just shattered. She has to, like, repeat, like, you said positive? Yeah. Like, I was only coming to give her company. Like, I didn't. Like, her invisibility as a teenager is now just, like, completely shattered. Because you just think nothing's going to happen to you when you're 15. Like, what could happen to you? You can literally do anything. Yeah. Yeah, I know her responsibility. Yeah, it's just. It's really sad. And it's just sad how it just is a cycle. And she just. It's just like a death sentence. You know, she just immediately is like, oh my gosh. Like, I can't even, you know, cope with this. But, yeah. It's just. There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on that you probably see the second time around watching it. You know, and then the first time you're just really shocked, I think. I think you're just like, whoa, I can't believe all this is happening. I can't believe this is a film. Yeah, that's definitely how I feel. Like, I would like to watch it again now that, like, the shock of it is done. Like, I know what to expect when I watch it again. Yeah. But I'd like to watch it again and, like, just be able to pick up on, like, other smaller details. Yeah. I feel like I probably could find more. Yeah. But I was just, like, so stuck in that, like, explosive, like, teenage, you know, experience. And I feel like the only reason why they, you know, they nailed everything like so well is because the guy who wrote it was, like, this is his life. Like, he was 18, right? These are all his life experiences, like, recent as well. It's not like he's 50 and he's writing a film from when he was, like, a teenager, right? Yeah. So I feel like that's why it's so, I don't know, there's all these elements of, like, oh yeah, like, we did that. And, like, everything is so well. It's so, like, I don't know, the way they tell the story is just so real. Like, you know, even, like, when they go for a swim, it's like, yeah, we did that. We used to break into, like, I don't know, the school, like, on the weekend and go for a swim. And, like, he used to do reckless things. Just the guys are gross. That scene was probably my least favorite. And the whole, and the whole film was, like, the pool scene. I just, just gross, like, Harold's, like, whipping his dick out. Like, no, I mean, I was just like, okay, this is just, like, the gross thing that guys do. And then the guys trying to make the girls make out. I was like, I wish that was a worse thing that happened. Well, yeah. Yeah, that's true. It does, it does progressively get worse. Yeah, I think the worst scene was, you know, at the end, which I really like that scene. Yeah, that is so hard to watch. That was a, and in, as far as, I mean, like, as far as rape scenes go in films, which I'm not a fan of, like, a gasp or nose. It's pretty bad and irreversible. And that one's entirely too long. Oh, yeah. That's completely too long. You can't even watch it. No. Yeah. And then in big little lies, there's a pretty intense scene too in there, which is kind of interesting that that's the way they show rape in big little lies was really interesting too. It wasn't as like, I guess it's more like, like, not like alluded to. Like, you see snatches of it. It's not like you're watching, like, in this one, you actually see it from beginning to end. Kind of sort of. But, uh, yeah, but it's just like a day. It's just like almost like a, not even, I don't even know what kind of rape it's not like a date rape because he didn't go out, like, Casper didn't go out with Jenny. He just kind of, like, is walking around, like, what half drunk half, like, you know, just, like, woken up and everyone just passed out and he just sees like an opportunity that. Yeah, I mean it. Just blacked out. But, yeah. But, too. I mean it's. But I guess he is, like. Weird. So, he's like drunk or high, right? Yeah, yeah, I think he's like, yeah. I'm not saying he makes it better, but. No, yeah. He just sees an opportunity, right? He's not like, he delivery when I just wait to rape someone, but he's just like there. And I mean, if you're 15 and you're listening to this, watch out because if you go to a party and you. If you call that kind of shit, like, you're not going to get away with it. Yeah, no. But, what do you make me think about that show? 13? Is it called 13? The movie? No, there's a film. Sorry, show. Oh, 13 Reasons Why? Yeah. Oh, okay. No, no, I haven't seen that one. Oh, do you? I have the book. Um, but. What's the premise of it? I know that I see a lot of chatter online about it, but like, what is the. It's basically about this person who commits suicide. This girl, and she has different video or, like, different tapes. Yeah. I mean, it's basically like a teenage girl. I don't know how old she is, but it's just. She's a new girl. A new girl. A new basic girl. Like, things just really don't work on her favor. Like, she's kind of bullied by someone. And then, like, basically, her life keeps getting worse and worse. And then, she set a party on her friend. I think best friend's boyfriend. Um, right here. Oh. And so, this was, like, kind of. Like, the worst. Uh, well, I think this. I already can't remember, but this happened. And then, on top of all the other things that happened, then people don't believe her. Her friend doesn't believe her. Oh, god. But then, it's all this is just, like, every day something happened. And then, she gets to a point where she's like, I don't want to leave anymore. But, she makes sure she leaves tapes. So, people know. And I think it's, like, each tape is for, for, for, like, a different person. And, like, people that contributed to her community suicide. Like, this person was guilty because they did this. Oh, well, like, they didn't know we'd be here. Yeah. Like, this other friend didn't support me. Like, this teacher didn't listen to me. Like, this 13 reasons why. Yeah. But, it's. I didn't watch it, but apparently, the suicide scene is very hardcore. Like, I couldn't watch it. Oh, the suicide scene. Oh, in the movie. But, it's kind of, like, and I mean, this is, like, nowadays, right? Like, someone was right. They didn't believe her. Yeah. And, I mean, this is different from this, but still spring. Yeah, like, they still have the same problems. I guess it's just. Same problems, yeah. And it's just a different way that it comes out, yeah. Oh, because I was like, cyberbullying as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she's obviously awful, 'cause, you know, there's more BB damage. I couldn't take it. I don't think you could either. It still has to be a BB. I've definitely had nervous breakdowns due to, like, internet bullying. I'm not. Yeah, 'cause you've. Well, because you're in the public eye. Yeah. Yeah. I've definitely experienced the haters. And it's, like, not fun. I don't know. I can't even imagine. Like, and I'm, like, 20-something. Like, I don't know how it would be being, like, you know, 14 or, like, 12 or, yeah, you're just. It's a lot. They haven't really tough. I mean, I definitely feel kind of bad. It's definitely more isolated. You know, it's one thing after being bullied, you know, at school. But at least you can. Your home is your, like, kind of safe haven. But now it's like. It's in your head. It's happening on your. Yeah, it's happening on your computer on your phone. And, like, other people are now joining in. It's not just one person. It's, like, everyone coming at you, telling you, like, whatever about yourself. It's just, like, oh god. That's a lot. But I mean, I feel like this is. Yeah, it's definitely a film to be watched. I feel like it's not. Not something that you should run away from. Like, that you should think it's, you know, too much. It's definitely, like, an important. Important viewing. And it's really interesting, too, for me. I think I rented this when I was young. And I saw the tape and the cover. And I was like, oh, cool. I've heard about this movie. And actually, actually, seeing. After seeing this, it totally opened me up to the world of independent cinema. Because I didn't. I didn't really know about independent films. I was like, what, 14? So, I didn't really know that there were films that weren't, like, whatever, like, you know, things that were in the movies. Like, clueless. And, like, Empire Records. Like, you know, like, feel good. Like, ha ha. You know, they're really great cult classic films. But I didn't know that there was something, like, even more real. Yeah. That was out there. And I think after this is when I branched out and started going, like, the independent film section to rent. And I started finding, you know, other things. And then wanting to watch more of his films. And then I got into. Really got into Gregoraki's films. Which is probably a whole other situation. Like, he's. It's so weird, too. Because I. There's one film called "Nowware" that I love so much. And I remember showing my friends that film in high school. I think I would must have been, like, 17. And I was like, hey, guys. This is such a great movie. And they all were, like, Lauren, what. Like, what are you into? What kind of. And they don't seem kids. And they were like, what kind of weird shit are you into? That's. This is next level. And I was like, yeah. Because this is like. You want to see something you haven't seen before. You know, you want to, like, be exposed to a different kind of world in universe. It's another. We're definitely should do want to know where. Because almost everyone in that cast is insanely famous now. I would love to do one on Manic, too. Oh, yeah. I think that was a really. Like, that was. I feel like Manic was one of the ones that, like, really caught me into, like, independent films. Because it was just so raw. It felt like someone just had a camcorder in a youth center. And. Yeah, so I know it. So incredible. Yeah, I just love it. And. So it is now who I'm not a huge fan of, but she's good in that. She's really good in it. Yeah, they're super young. And yeah, just super. Super real, kind of, like, disturbing. But, you know, there was just, like, a genuine. Like, a good, genuine storyline to follow, and you, like, you really care about the characters. Like, you get really, like, wrapped up in the characters. And I think that's why I really like independent films is because, you know, there's not this huge budget to distract you. You're just there watching these characters evolve, and you kind of. You get, like, a sense that you get to control how you feel about the character. It's not this big budget telling you you're gonna like this character. Yeah. Because, literally, you have, like, a really great editor and the way they shoot everything. And that makes, like, the film, you know? And you don't even need, like, a big budget for that. Like, it's just, like, have you watched Victoria? It's really good. We should watch it. It's a. It's a German film, and it's all shot in one. One frame. Oh, okay. I like one tape. Yeah, one tape. Oh, cool. And it's really cool. Yeah. It's quite intense. It's. Sweet. It's showing very lean. But, you know, and they have, like, I think it was showing a phone. I'm not entirely happy. Oh, wow. You couldn't ever tell. But. Yeah, a tangerine's another one of the film. It's, like, amazing music. Like, amazing. And it's great acting. They're not, like, big actors or anything. Is it out anywhere, like, to stream? Or do we have to, like, find it? Probably. I don't know. I'll see. But we should watch it here. Cool, yeah. Yeah. Sweet. Well, I guess we've, like, you know, run a good. Almost hours. That's pretty good. Yeah. Um, I really like Euphoria. I'm about to show them a scene now, because I have an idea for a project. But, I know Euphoria. I know they have a lot of warnings on the show, like, when you start watching it. Um, that it can be very triggering for some people. I personally don't feel that way. But, I guess it's because I've seen a lot of, like, really, just intense films that I think I. I guess they're triggering before triggering was a thing. But, I just. I really, I really identify with Zendaya's character in that film, but. Or in that TV show. So, I kind of like how. At first, I didn't like it. Because I was like, "Oh, God, they're trying to rip off, like, a kind of Iraqi version of, like, kids." Like, you know, "Oh, they're fucking up. They're doing all this crazy shit." But, it's really interesting to see how. Just, like, how different it is for kids now, and how inclusive it is. Like, it's very inclusive that show. And, they really go into a lot of, like, serious topics, like, a girl in high schools, like, a webcam girl. And, she's, like, making money. And, she's, like, kind of, being an entrepreneur. And, just things you never would think that teenagers are doing now. And, now, they're, like, on YouTube, and they're making their own money. And, they're, like, you know, they're just, kind of, a little adult, you know? Well, yeah, I mean, they're happy to take their clothes off on Instagram. You know, now, it's, like, kind of, money. Like, someone was telling me, like, someone who's 24, actually, that they are profiles on Instagram. But, you, like, a girl will approach you, like, hey, I can, like, if you pay, if you get, like, a membership, you pay for a member, she would. You have just access to this profile. Yeah, they're called, oh, fans only. It's, like, a big thing. See pictures of them naked. Yeah. Like, videos and stuff. Uh-huh. Wow. Yeah, it's called "Fans Only," or "Only Fans," or something. I saw a vice thing on a. On Instagram. That's crazy. Snapchat added the feature to send money. One Snapchat added a few years ago, but one time, I remember reading that they. I remember reading that. That they sent of money, uh, whatever, transfer into their platform. I was like, this is not policed. These kids are. can be 14, 15 years old. And, like, how is this legal? Yeah. Like, that you can transfer money. You could be 45. And this girl could be 14. But, they're getting money. Like, it's just crazy. But it also shows, like, these kids have no conscience of, like, I'm just gonna be naked and these people can do whatever they want with my photos or videos. Yeah, I'm glad there's nothing called me anywhere. They don't care. You know, like. They just don't think past. now. I'm most teenagers don't. I mean, you can tell them all day long, you know, in 10 years you're gonna regret this. And 10 years you're gonna regret this. Well, this is all they know. Like, we're all pretty internet kids. Yeah, exactly, yeah. We have more kind of boundaries. Like, we're not that happy to put our lives out there. Like, everything out there. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, 'cause we just didn't grow up with it. Just not. And also, you want to keep stuff secret. Like, you don't want people to know everything. I definitely know people that put everything. Like, where they are. All the time, yeah. Where they are. Like, kind of, they'll be naked. I don't know about you. You know, really anything, you know, for like. Yeah, it's gonna save for likes and comments. And maybe that's why I really did like kids is because there was no. Like, there was no second persona that you have to know. It's just different times. Yeah. Because these guys were just having fun just being kids, you know. Like, now you can't have so much of our appearances. Like, yeah, what's your selling? You know, now you're like traveling. Yeah. You'll be like posting where you are doing. Show that you're cool, and you're here, and you aren't. And, you know, I'm doing this, and you're not. And I have these clothes, and you know. And I have these clothes. And you know. Yeah. I mean, they're pretty cool. I have to say. But. Sure. I was there. Yeah. I wish we could go back and just kind of. I don't know. I feel like if you told Teenage Me what it would be like now, I'd be like, what? What do you mean? People are like posting photos of themselves and like telling everyone where they are. Yeah, I'd be like, what? That's kind of weird. But there's another good film, Larry Clark did a film called Bullie, which is really good. That has brought. I think it's one of Brad Renfroze's last films. I actually remember when that came out. Do you? Yeah. It was like 'Oh, one. Yeah. Nick Stahl, Michael Pitt, Beeshoe Phillips. Like, that one has a more known cast. I think, obviously, he started working with like, more like, well known actors too. But I didn't see it, but I remember like. It's really good. It's also a really fucked up movie, and it has a lot of the same. Similar kind of, like, themes. And all of his films, a lot of times, have themes. It's like what kids are doing without parents. Like, when parents are not really, like, they don't know what's going on. And that is the same thing. And like, in this one, like, when you see Tally go home to his mom, and his mom is just kind of like, you know, hey, what are you doing here? And he's just like, oh, yeah, we're trying to find a job. Like, you can tell that she's preoccupied with like, the little baby that she has. And she just kind of lets him go, she doesn't know what he's doing. She doesn't know where he goes, what he does. And that's like kind of the running theme is like, this is kind of what. This is the inside of like the mind of. I think that was the only parent we saw, too, in the whole movie. Yeah. Yeah, Tally's mom is the only parent that we saw. Yeah, I feel like you just never really see parents, and that's kind of like. Yeah, that's interesting, because I feel like you always. A lot of times now, it's kind of teenagers are like around that family unit in films. And everything now, you always see the parents. They're always people you know, because they're older. So, you know, they kind of play that. But, yeah, there, it's not about the parents, which is cool. Yeah. I like that aspect. So, yeah, I think we're. I'll wrap it up. I'll wrap it up. Yeah, we'll be on the next one. And I don't know what we'll talk about, and who knows what order you'll hear this in. But, yeah, it was super fun. And see you next time. Thanks for having us. Bye. [Music]