‘Lanterns’ Episode 8 Deep Dive

hello and welcome back to house of r i'm joanna robinson joining me today oh my gosh i would let her get away with literal murder it's mallory rubin joanna if you could see the inside of my head you'd never stop screaming it's been five years and i i still feel that way you know about you about myself our five-year anniversary on sunday that's right so yesterday when people are listening that's right yeah five years half a decade together that means we've known each other for gosh close to a decade yeah more casually but dang deeply and intimately for five years deep deep yeah deep deep uh magical we're gonna talk more about our love for each other uh if i were to blip out hologram style i would like the last thing i say to be i love you i love you too late for a spoiler warning spoiler warning we're gonna talk about lanterns finale right after this this episode is brought to you by a whole foods market get everything you need to win thanksgiving at a whole foods market we're talking seasonal favorites from the bakery easy weeknight meals for before the big day and sales on body care and candles for last minute gifts plus with more than 300 band food ingredients storewide you know it's quality you can trust shop thanksgiving favorites with higher standards at whole foods market prime members shop at wfm.com and get your first order over 25 delivered free terms apply all right if you just in case you missed it yes we talked to tom king about lanterns in general in the lanterns finale specifically and also about dip and apples and sex and everything we like to talk about that's right um that is already in the feed it's there that went up it dropped yesterday check it out listen to it fantastic conversation and fantastic interview it was so fun to hear from tom about this season and just in general really a wonderful chat one of my favorite things and i've said this to you before but it's our fifth year anniversary so i'm just gonna say it again whenever we do um interviews and mallory makes one of her just like beautiful eloquent points and the person who's who we're interviewing just like has to mutter under their breath wow so well said so brilliant which tom king and an absolute legend in the realm of storytelling did do to mally rubin inside of you so you're gonna want to check it out you're making me blush i will but i have a sunburn so maybe you can tell you're still glowing from hawaii i can't tell at all um quick programming reminders so we're wrapping up our time uh with dc this week that we'll be back clay face is coming you know we're weeks away yeah clay face so we'll stay in the realm of dc but marvel also has something and it's not just reheated nachos of avengers endgame that's right it is vision quest can't wait we're so excited so we're going to do a rewatch of wandavision delightful agatha is still sort of banging around my brain agatha we spent two and a half hours on every week together and guess what we had the time of our fucking lives so if you're like i want to listen to that go do it but we didn't get to pot about wandavision together so for our time which means it was over five years ago that i gotta say harrowing to confront yeah harrowing to confront how long ago wandavision that feels to me like it was yesterday so if you can't remember wandavision that's right we'll be talking about it uh in a special sort of catch-up episode and then we're into vision quest a show that i have not seen a single second of other than the trailers but i just really want it to be good i want it to be good i love this you know i usually like guard myself and i'm so cynical i really want it to be good what if it's great but it needs to be not only because then we could all share a great vision quest show together and that would be wonderful but because it's gonna be crushing a devastating blow for the joe hype meter like you leaning into this enthusiasm you've allowed yourself to be like this can be great and what if it isn't what will happen it's almost like spoiler warning for the lanterns finale you open yourself up to love something and then it gets you shot in the head something like that because yeah i'll just like a house of coal on a on a on a bench somewhere tough hopefully that's not how it goes okay yeah um spoilers for the lantern finale too late too late you already did it um how can keep track of everything that we're doing including i mean wicker's coming that's right well i bet cool me i bet it is wicker is cool me how many orgasms in wicker let's set the over under right now oh god and like olivia coleman's a real shouter so i'm excited to see i've seen the favorite i know how it goes oh my god i fucking love that movie um what's coming up how can you we already told you how can you follow it thanks for asking here's what i'd recommend follow the pod yeah follow house of r yeah on spotify yeah or wherever you get your podcast but here's the thing about following on spotify you can watch full video episodes of house of r on spotify or the ringerverse youtube channel that means like yeah you could listen to joanna talk about books and you should but you know what else you could do you could watch her bob like an apple in a sea of books surrounded by tomes in this very studio i really miss you i'm crushing i i've i've decided as you know to make a change in my life where i'm like vacation is good and it's something i'm gonna do so i'm not gonna allow myself to feel bad about having taken one but i was sad to miss that but what a wonderful treat for the bad babies incredible stuff wonderful just delightful and yeah one of the most requested that's books that people want to hear about was dungeon crawler carl which they can hear you talk about soon where yeah uh the jeslinic book club i'll be joining anthony jeslinic book club is on the ringer podcast network what a time to be alive just incredible delightful wow anthony was your guest for uh house of reeds delightful and yeah i'll be chatting uh i'll be chatting with him about carl princess princess donut who is now in my life i want to thank all the bad babies who said you need to let princess donut into your life you were right uh it's great stuff so yeah follow along follow the pod and also while you're at it follow at house of our pod say it again at house of our pod perhaps the first time ever that i've said that correctly instead of saying outhouse of our pod on instagram tiktok etc follow at ringerverse of course as well and uh you know see what fun stuff we're getting up to over on uh on social who knows while you're at it send us your emails because the inbox is always open hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com please do i think that's it i think that covers it hey have we mentioned spoilers for the lanterns finale we're gonna talk about it's too late uh let's go now to our opening snapshot mallory before we dive deep yes let's keep it surface level great let's do something superficial why not episode eight dirt and stars uh directed by alex sakharov who directed the previous episode talked about his uh storied history inside of uh television directing written by a murderer's row tom king have you heard of him he's been on our podcast uh david lindelof have you heard of him he's been on our podcast and chris money have you heard of him he's one who's on the midnight boys so all three have uh been here in the ringer's family talk to me about the finale uh i really liked the finale i thought that it overall the season was oh you heard the baltimore there overall overall going down to the ocean on i thought this season of tv was great just had a wonderful time covering the season the finale was not my favorite episode of the season you know i think the pen ultimate episode seven was just i think for both of us we agree the the peak it was really exquisite and and we'll stay with me but the finale uh rooting itself in and orienting around conversation character character emotionality emotion theme that's that's our shit our shit you know and i think the fact that this was such an intimate and personal finale it was not uh a string of set pieces and big to an ending it was so deeply human suit up moment no like none of that and i don't you know like overall people are loving lanterns that seems to be prevailing a reaction but i do remember when the first couple trailers came out people are like hey you're gonna have some uh sure lanterning in your lantern show that's right yeah so i'm curious if people you know i agree with you like this is my preference for a finale of this kind is to have these kind of conversations see what the masses think but you know i'm just curious if they were like if they'll miss it at all or if they're like that was so engrossing i don't care or they're like hey we we wanted more constructs from our season of lanterns you know so yeah so maybe so i don't i i genuinely don't know yeah i'll be curious to see that as well but like the reaction has been so high uh that that i'm hoping um i also episode seven was by far my favorite i thought it was just like exquisite storytelling just really really good i liked i liked exactly what you're talking about in terms of like conversation character emotionality for the finale there are some things that even though this finale did have feel like it had space to breathe inside of conversations thinking about like john and carrie on the sidelines of the game just sort of having that conversation like noah and and john in the car having that conversation like there was time to breathe but they still felt like i was missing a few things like we sped past a few sort of steps along the way yeah so i you know sometimes we talk about how greedy we are like i would have taken maybe another half hour inside of this episode to, like, be with Sinestro a little longer or, like— Love that guy. You know, get some, like, Stewart family stuff that's more than just montage, you know? Just, like, some of the moments I was just like, I wanted even more of this. Yeah, I think on that front, the other thing that I found myself thinking, not necessarily about time spent inside of this episode, but kind of in retrospect now across the season, because Noah, as we had really, I think, we and Lantern's viewers, you know, and Mass had begun to anticipate that this was going to be a very Noah-centric conclusion. I do wish that we had spent a little more time with Noah, and specifically inside of the Carrie-Noah relationship, given, you know, how her feelings for her son lead to this big moment. It's ultimately her relationship with Noah is inextricable from what happens inside of her relationship with Hal. And I think it's so key since, because this finale, there's a lot that happens for John, and John is our main character, so that is as it should be, but there's a lot that happens for John in terms of, like, trusting his gut, or, you know, all the, or just sort of, like, leading with his heart, and all this other stuff that is really important. But since the crux of this episode has to do with sort of, like, what will Noah choose, or is Noah someone worth risking possible mass violence to protect the potential good nature inside of this boy, I would like to know him a bit better in order to feel those stakes a bit more. And I think it certainly worked. I mean, I thought that the car ride with John and Noah was really great, that sequence in the conversation. I think that it worked quite well as a parallel to John's journey and through the John lens. That stuff really landed. It would have just amplified it further if we had a deeper attachment to Noah and understanding of him. Obviously, the more we know him, the harder it is to hold the reveal for the finale, so that's the calculus always, obviously. That's kind of, like, what it felt like, that they were just, I mean, we got, you know, we got a good. A goodly amount of him, but, like, in one episode, basically. And I felt like a case of trying to hide the ball a bit deprived us of just a little bit more time. Yeah, I think that the Hal-Carrie opening and the Hal-John conclusion were wonderful. And for people who have really grown invested in these characters over the course of this season of television specifically, just a really, really. A really, like, rich way to conclude the run. The other kind of big picture note on the finale is just that I was struck by, and I think this is to the finale's credit, ultimately, and to the season's credit, this. There's certainly open threads, you know? Noah's out there, right? So who knows what happens? Sinestro's hanging out on the fear toxin planet, worrying. John is now. He has forged his own oath and said these words and put on the ring. You know, just amazing. And he is now Earth's Green Lantern. He'll take the dirt. Guy's got the sky. According to him. Sure, yeah. But it was. I don't know if that Guy agrees or that. Well, Guy just. Or that Liana will take that lying down. Yeah, Guy, it's code. Incredible, hysterical. Guy, you are. That was just wonderful. This finale was very focused on concluding this season of television. It was very contained. Right. Like. It ultimately strands for the future, but it holds up as a season of TV that is its own thing, which is satisfying. I don't think we're going back to Rushville ever. I'd be surprised if we saw Carrie or Billie again. We might. You know, like, I think if Noah. Here's what I'll say. I was watching this finale. I liked it. I think if Noah had left off the screen even more, there could be a potentiality for, like, future Noah stuff. I'm not sure that that's the sort of impression that that character made where we're like, we have to know more about Noah. And his Huskers career and whether or not, like, the Manhunter will emerge, et cetera, et cetera. I will be tracking Noah Macon's Heisman campaign. Let me say it now. I'm invested. I'll be tracking his draft stock. I want to know where McShay and Mensch have him on the big board. I'm invested. Remember when. I have no idea what that means. Remember when Tom King made a football reference and I understood it? Very special moment. If we hadn't sold you already on the interview, there you go. What more do you need to hear? I got it. She really did. Sports show is thriving right now. It's true. I did go to a Valkyries game. Amazing. Like, to go watch the playoff game in the bar. Did you have a great time? I had a great time. Incredible local lesbian bar. The bartender bought me a tequila soda. It was delicious and expensive. Thank you so much for that. I had a great time. And then Survivor was on after. Oh, my gosh. What a night. But the Valkyries lost. And I was just like, this is part of it. This is part of a burgeoning fandom. She gets it. As you emotionally invest and you're there for the sorrow as well as the joy. Yeah. The pain of suffering through the defeat makes it all the richer and more delicious when for just a moment you taste glory. Ultimately, for most sports fans, the balance is tough. You don't get to feel the joy a lot. We're recording this to take you behind the curtain on a Friday afternoon. There is another Valkyries game tonight, so we'll see how they do. Start posting some Instagram real video reactions. I will be watching. I don't know if I'll be posting my reactions, but I will be watching. We'll see. We'll see. The break felt great in the lesbian bar. I'll tell you that much right now. Let's go now to our deep dive. You brought Schlitz? This was just all very important and special. This is really good. Now, you have been number one booster, the Buddy Garrity of the Carrie-Hal relationship. Thank you. But I was thinking about myself as well, because I thought this was really, really good. But all of this is here. I mean, going to the finale, when we discussed last week our theories, we were talking about, no, we were talking about Billy. I was like, Billy and the dip. Did he do it? Turns out Jason Ritter's just here. Look handsome and a mustache. You know what? There are worse things to be. Exactly. Worse gigs out there, certainly. Carry high on our suspect list. Yeah. This whole thing. This whole flashback, as told to us by Sinestro, well changed to a chair. Incredible. Interesting to think about. Yeah. This whole flashback is here to be great and also to, like, twist the knife and make it all the more painful for when she kills him later. Knowing that, that, like, part of the point of this sequence is to make what happens later in the episode all the more painful. Yeah. Does that change how you experience it on the rewatch? Hmm. Um, I did find. I did find rewatching this episode to be a real exercise in anguish, but in a way I enjoy. You know, I like to feel sad. I like to luxuriate in the tragedy. I do. I mean, I think, you know, we'll go beat by beat through all these opening 11-ish minutes and all the things we see and witness and, you know, a glimpse of what briefly was and could have been and how sad it is to. How kind of much joy and gratitude we can feel for the fact that they experienced that together at all. But then, of course, the fact that it's even more devastating that it was ripped away. I do want to, like, work through this. I do want to work through together where we're landing, ultimately, on how Carrie being the one to pull the trigger, like, how that sits with the larger examination of fear and what it makes us do and how we react to it. And, of course, also the opening yourself up to a relationship and then getting shot in the head by that person. I think the message is don't ever make yourself vulnerable or known to someone else. Right? Oh, God. Sitting here across from you on our five-year anniversary. Why? Why ever open yourself up to someone you could just get shot in the head? It's tough. It's tough to contemplate. But if you can. I'm not saying that, but I think this show might be. You know, in the middle, you get some world-class garlic bread. I don't know, world-class. You get some fucking cowboy boots. Best in western Nebraska. A little bit of local spin there. Yeah. When you have to, like, quantify where in the state you are in order to claim best garlic bread, I don't know that it's the best. I think that's a fair note. Yeah. And also, like. Is there a Little Italy? Is there a Little Italy in Los Angeles? There must be, right? Okay. I don't know. There must be. Shout out all the garlic bread in North Beach in San Francisco. There you go. And in Little Italy in Baltimore. Baltimore City, downtown Baltimore. A place you've never been. So, LA, if you don't have one, catch up. I'm sure LA has one. It just seems impossible otherwise. I mean, that place was called, like, Paschetti's. Paschetti's was really funny. And then restaurants still. With love and respect, I don't think that garlic bread is very good. I think that's a reasonable assumption. Okay. I like that we overreacted. We opened, you know, right after. Like, the aftermath of the battle. We go back. We go back before we spend time in 2026. We're in 2016 briefly. Maggie's dad's leg gets another star-making close-up. Just blown off. Yeah. Blown to bits. We get the meat of the leg. We sure do. And it's, I mean, it's an interesting contrast to, because we get Rushville again later. That's right. Filmed in sort of this, like, golden Americana. Yes, the water tower is still decimated on the ground, but the flowers are blown in the breeze, you know? So, like, Rushville, it did rebuild itself to a certain degree. We get this replay of the moment where Carrie saves, I think that's accurate to say, John. Mm-hmm. Do you think that decision played into John's desire to, quote-unquote, save Carrie or protect Carrie? I mean, he mentions that it's what Hal would have wanted, but, like, how much does her saving him here? I was just thinking about Bilbo and Gollum and Frodo and just sort of pity and mercy staying in people's hands. You know, we talked about this a little bit with Tom King. Check out the interview if you haven't yet. come up many times in the pod today because it was so so present and so central to i mean ultimately the season but certainly to the finale just the grace that john is able to find for other people and i think that what's interesting about john and what's you know feels like a very fully realized even though john is just starting ultimately his dcu journey we're gonna see my man tomorrow etc feels like we have watched a character live a life already even though this next journey is just beginning you know the the way that he is able to um in a in a world where there is such judgment and and bitterness and and misery all around people all the time find it in himself to try to understand somebody else's perspective and point of view and why they made the decision and some of that is about what he himself has done and lived through and some of it is about an effort just making the effort to understand their perspective so when we get to something like what he says later in the episode to carrie it's about carrie it's about hal it's about his own mother it's about him it's all there in the brew it's a lot about his mom it definitely is you know it looms large yeah very much so so i think that's all there i think there's there are so many different strands and elements that that put john into the place where he is um you know like he'll joke about it kind of later with guy well like fuck the chain of command which is a big change for john but all of this is in the brew then of like what does he say right you know i'll embrace my fear i'll do right and thinking about that in a really big meaningful way i was really struck by your you're quoting his newly forged oath that he that he makes at the end of the episode and i was really struck by i'll do what's right because that is such an interesting phrase without a larger governing body yeah it's up to you the individual to decide what is right right and we like john so we believe in him but also i'm quite scared of the fact that he's using this particular lantern so like sure you know no no no no you know so he's just like i will do what's right and i'm like right now i do believe that john who's like i'm gonna give maggie the money anyway you know like i'm gonna like carry off the hook for killing my guy i guess i'm gonna hug my family we'll talk about that um i believe in john and his and his moral clarity but how long will that clarity stay clear the lantern is scary powerful but it's beautiful excited to talk about that gorgeous great great production okay um events are sort of briefly edited slightly out of order and i think a really fun way where we have carrie that replay of carrie telling people to stand down asks where hal is uh john tells her she walks is walking up to the motel and then we like cut back to her in front of john again very charged look passing between which i thought was really interesting and then she walks up to hal who is slumped in what i would say is not entirely on talia al ghul uh i would say when we glimpsed how less of the but yes i was like is that are we sure his spine is intact he's like i'm fine and not a senior doctor no not a single twitch of a finger on his body like is he paralyzed in any kind of way oh my god it was really worrying he looked quite hard one of the things i loved about this so much obviously he's you know he's he's straight on the ground bloodied face he's a mess are you okay are you okay like his worry for her is so he wanted to he would guys he wanted to he would i mean and then her her worry for him obviously is very apparent too and so the seeing 10 years prior in 2016 before we get to the 2026 you know the relationship seeing it as obviously we have in some capacity mixed in with the humor and the barbs um and being on different sides you know opposing forces like the feelings are there like the seeds of the affection on some level just a tenderness and a level of care well i think even very present all of that's true and i think it was even clear when we got that in interaction with john the first time and she's like where's hal like that's her question not so i can go arrest him but like is he okay is he okay they had this conversation where they both seem to agree that all of this is hal's fault where where are you on this i don't agree yeah i mean it's so weird like we we had talked about this before when carrie you know in the previous episode it said like anything that happens next is your fault and then they both while while hal is maybe has a snap spine on the ground like they both seem to agree but she feels sorry for him anyway and i was like i don't agree i do believe that zoe macon aka the grandmother as sinestro calls her the manhunter is responsible i believe anton is responsible like but what hal says is for selfish reasons yes and we he doesn't really like i mean i i still think they're doing too much uh conversing for someone who seems to have a snap spine on the ground of of this wrecked motel i think we should be calling the ambulance um he doesn't really go into what those selfish reasons are my interpretation is uh he wanted to be the one to take down the manhunter and he he had to cowboy through it yeah and not call for backup so that he could prove to the guardians that he is still a plus number one green lantern material yeah and as we heard him say in in when we witnessed the battle of rushville for the first time like i'm gonna fucking fly up to oa and those blue bastards are gonna kiss my ring so for sure it was still in the throes of like i need i'm in the you're gonna take this off my cold dead body and you're and so of course all of this is is here for us when we hear halogram tell john that he's gonna be better at it than he ever was and it's just all so great i thought that i agree with you i had the same like yeah a lot of blame for hal for sure but a lot of blame to go around we're in the same place with that i think the fact that he is uh accepting seeing something clearly here in that moment or how clearly is he saying it but he is accepting a level of responsibility that will position him ultimately ultimately to um you know not only do the time and this 10-year sentence this will tell john and the cafe sequence um but just that he is going to enter this phase of his life you know as we'll hear carrie talk about it uh poschettis poschettis pastoria um poschettis pastoria that uh he's trying to do the work like he's preparing himself to do the work and try to get better to take some like he's uh what was it like delivering grocery like yeah exactly yeah kissing babies helping old ladies cross the street mowing lawns yeah and so like obviously that could have just come from reflecting in prison but i think that seeing right away here in the face of john taking the ring off his finger and walking out and the damage and destruction around him that he's already right there was was beneficial i i do like the because in this scene um this is where carrie asks him like what will the guardian say that's what sets up the scene and he's like well i don't know you know they'll say i did this for selfish reasons and how it's all a tidy solution for them i don't know that we're going to talk about it again maybe when we get to the the john guy scene but no leon on the finale no guardians in the finale no laura lenny in the finale i was surprised there's a there when we were recounting like all the things we felt like they needed to check in on for the finale it was a long list uh it was a long list and they were like you know what we don't actually um i think it's fine that leon is not here i think it's fine that we didn't you know especially since john's stance is i don't work for that so like they don't need to be here for sure and i love that that's uh laura lenny's sort of exit from the season if you go back it's that scene in the bar so that's like a right yeah final moment definitely um but yeah we we did think we might get some guardian stuff and we didn't um okay so yes to answer rob mahoney's question from a couple weeks ago what is uh hal in prison for looks like reckless endangerment um is what got him locked up for 10 years i guess uh 2026 prison pickup scene carrie unbelievable looks fantastic here now she's always she's always beautiful yes kelly mcdonald just like a striking woman her entire life yeah um but i will say in the like bright sunshine with the sun just like sort of blowing through her hair like she just like has this like effortless clean girl aesthetic she's got the light button down tucked into the dark wash jeans with the belt buckle um six pack in her hand she just looks flowers that she's like maybe no i know she tossed them into the car but the fact that she brought hal a bouquet of flowers he'll he'll was so delightful you know that he saw them in the car and he was just sort of like you get those for me you know what i mean wonderful stuff for it wonderful stuff she looks incredible she looks donald is 50 years old i just want to you know you look look however you want to look in your life i support women looking however they want i just want to say this is a beautiful woman who looks beautiful and like natural and gorgeous and how i'm going to say this is a beautiful woman who looks beautiful and like natural and gorgeous and i'm walking out of prison to this vision of this gorgeous woman who he is wooed and courted showing it for him with the six pack and all the things that these two incredible actors convey with very simple dialogue right like you're here i am that's it you brought schlitz you came you call you came about to you know about to i mean if they had just fucked in the back seat of the car who would have complained not me i don't know wait do we know where that prison is i don't know where it is but i feel like they're not making it back to i think pull over the side of the road no closest motel i think they checked it into a motel why not both yeah um they're like remember last time we were at a motel and your spine was snapped and everyone was dead yeah maybe not the most romantic setting for them good good point perhaps they found a nice like open field somewhere and there was a blanket uh the hunger in hal jordan's eyes for schlitz for all of it uh-huh for all of it let me ask you a question something i'm going to file away just in case it ever comes up in the future it's schlitz for hal if i ever have to greet you as you were being let out of prison what do you want me to show up with like booze wise or anything at all what would be your you brought Schlitz I'll tell you what my best friend does to like like and it's also you you were my best friend I was going to say weird that I'd be asking if I should know the answer interesting I feel here's what I think Schlitz is a good Schlitz is a great like I bought a six a six pack like that's a great like yep cornbread she's not from Nebraska Gotham girl shows up with a six pack for Hal Jordan and they were like bring beer to the the Macon Ranch at the beginning John bring beer for the meatloaf dinner all of it you know when because I like the idea of something that you wouldn't get for yourself but something you really really like right and something you haven't had for 10 years in prison it's a mint Milano Pepper's Farm's mint Milano wow I don't delicious they're my favorite I don't like get them for myself just because I don't and then like my best friend occasionally like filing this away there will it will just appear there will be a package we'll have a double stuff from Milano sure what's yours what's your answer but also Flamin' Hot Cheetos okay okay no bad ideas and a brain turn do you want a pair of chopsticks or do you want to get that you want to get that Cheeto dust all over your fingers I want it on my fingers yeah you want to live it again and then like you can't even lick it off you have to like scrape it with your teeth wow and you're like I'm alive yeah because if I'm in like landlocked Nebraska I can't ask for like a crab cake or something I don't think you know a steamed crab I was thinking what if I brought you like an ice cold shaker and we had martinis that would be wonderful how many olives post prison martinis the limit does not exist it's more olive than martini great briny cold as space yeah what was the line from industry is it cold as saltier than the ocean brinier than the like briny as the ocean cold as space it's great stuff wonderful the best thing Cal Penn has ever done his martini order in industry okay and working for the Obama campaign okay so this is where we get those like golden Americana shots of Rushville the song is playing is called right back at it and if you look up the lyrics this is very much a song about two people sort of coming back together inside of a relationship and all of the fear the like we can we can do this we can get back together we can make this work except here are like the things I'm worried about or here are the things that might get in the way it's just like if I can just not get in my own way trip over my own tail on this like we can really have something special but here are the dangers of rekindling something that went wrong before yeah and so I just I think that there's like I was almost thinking like why are we getting these golden shots of Rushville very Shire-esque like this is the thing we're preserving and if you think about this and also the very extreme extended Friday Night Lights like football game sequence that we get at the end and the sort of like post celebration and the Macon family Nebraska actual Nebraska coach Matt Rule just there to hand Noah's hat incredible stuff Mallory texted me she's like can't believe this guy's there I was like I texted you Matt Rule and then I was like real Mike Leach and FNL vibes because it is you know and I said from context clues I think you're talking about the Scurs guy who shows up and I was so there you go but yeah so yeah so Unsurprisingly this is a thing worth preserving yeah Americana Heartland the Shire Fresh Tilled Earth like what do you think definitely I think you know here with the Golden Hour the other place I was thinking about that actually was it was a humorous moment but later as John and Noah pull up to the stadium ahead of the game and there's like the little like you know the little knock on the marching band right it's hard in a small town to find a good marching band but just that minute where they're sitting there and the music starts to drench the scene it I think it made me think of the beginning of Black Widow when they're leaving an American Pie place and there's just something about the glimpse of the small town and the needle drop and the football and it does it's like yeah this is like the life that you you don't know if you deserve it or if you're gonna be able to get it or if you're gonna keep it and maybe you can and will and what a beautiful message and maybe you will shoot your hot boyfriend in the head that would really suck as we continue to celebrate our five year anniversary do you think talking about American Pie and the Black Widow podcast is the first time we ever cried together on a podcast I think it might have been whoa great question because that was our third pod together or second Loki was let's see so I did you did the Lost podcast I don't think we cried about Sawyer and Juliet I don't think so did we want to but we weren't sure if we could yet yeah now we know it was a little earlier yeah and then we did Black Widow and then Black Widow and then did we do one more did we do a Loki one I think we did something and then I worked here for five years or was it was it Falcon there was one other episode early in the the MCU TV COVID days and then we were together and no one can tear us apart but I feel like I haven't re-listened to that Black Widow episode maybe I should but I feel like we like cried about that and we knew it was meant to be beautiful and guess what it was and it is can I have I ever told you about what when the saints go marching in means to me I don't think so tell me this is going to be a bougie sentence stay with me when I was a kid yeah for 4th of July we used to go to the Mondavi winery in Napa to go see the they would do like a concert in fireworks amazing at the winery and after the fireworks playing you out walking back to your cars it was always when the saints go marching in is like how it ended so that is like Americana to me it's like we celebrate we watch a bunch of fireworks adults have been drinking wine in the sun all day everyone is behaving badly or whatever and then when the saints go marching in play that is an incredibly heart-plucking nostalgia tune I don't know for me it just means like childhood and all that stuff like that so when it started playing I was like this is so beautiful and they started like shitting on the marching band I was like I still think it's beautiful even if third trombone is a hard chair to fill still something alright let's go to Paschetti's Pasteria please one of the best garlic bread in western Nebraska this scene was just delightful I gotta say looking fresh on date night button downs all around everyone looks great the fits new fits wonderful sweet hot Hal kind of like hunched and twisting his hands he's uncomfortable and he's nervous like it was a real different energy in a really wonderful way to see from him kind of that like you tuck your neck down into your shoulders cause like you wanna try to shrink out of view when you know you're on stage and in the spotlight and everyone is looking at you and obviously there's like a heightened intentional you know element of it but literally everyone is looking every single person who's sitting there is like how dare you fucking show up here well especially when you compare that to like him getting tacos in episode one where he's just like a celebrity and everyone's looking at him for a different reason tell me why you don't wear the suit anymore and can we take a selfie and like somebody who has always been in the public eye like feeling that flip on him it was great really great little moment I loved when he said kind of the conspiratorial quiet whisper maybe this was a bad idea and then Carrie said I'm a grown woman in the law in this town as fun as it is I'm not gonna spend another month sneaking around with you to which I say release the one month sneaking around cut you cowards do you want a montage or do you need like a whole episode that's just them fucking around with each other I mean I'll accept anything okay I think a montage what song would you pick one of your dad core songs some CCR some CCR would be great should we pick something else from Melanie based on your observation from last week sure last week it was like four days ago I mean definitely something from the mid to late 1970s because Hal is once again for sure he's listening to Cruel to be Kind from 1979 later just rocking out while he's feeding Earl on the post coital I know one of those incredible I mean it went badly after that but great little moment there here's my one note for that by the way because we're timelining it to say this is just immediately post coital he still has the sex hair oh yeah he's wearing the same date night outfit but the button down is unbuttoned way too many clothes back on like because he was just cowboy boots only and then he put the jeans and the undershirt and the buttoned up shirt buttoned down obviously I agree obviously I agree this is like a you know boxers only moment or whatever you know if ever there were a time to do the Crash Davis irons and his boxers here on Lanterns this is it you deserve that this is it you deserve that I've got a question for you please you realize they wrote leave asshole on my front lawn want to file a report in manure their own that takes time and they didn't need to leave the asshole to make the point unless the asshole was the point two questions for you here one one unless the asshole was the point we think it's a little double entendre we'll incite into oh their sex life what like yeah what Carrie might be looking for in the bedroom throwing that out there and then manure their own yeah so did they I think you saw my many question marks did they leave logs like how is Hal in a position to identify this as human what does he mean manure their own like what do you say like that is such a weird thing to say because manure have you ever referred to human feces as manure no certainly not no not until quoting this I don't believe even Biff Tannen would say manure when talking about other human feces I do love that that's like I've there are some people I have disliked on other people's behalf this much but like I've always kind of wanted to do the dark web order poo and leave it on someone's doorstep because you know you can like on the dark web order all kinds of weird poo what did you know that no yeah I'm you can get it I like elephant shit to leave on someone's doorstep. have any like personal enemies but like in terms of you've wronged someone i know yeah okay i like righteous vengeance on someone else's behalf but it would be elephant shit from the dark web not quote their own you're their own i'm definitely not leaving my own shit on anyone's doorstep no thank you i just have so many questions about this exactly did they take a shit on the lawn and then rearrange it like you're making your card like a sand on the beach or like you have stones on a desert island or are they transporting it like out of this i mean i guess it's a you know testament to the the community in rushville and how willing they are to to align here when the the task requires it but boy i had a lot of questions about this the shit express hack internet of shit ai poop analysis of that oh okay i'm just looking at what what kind of poop you can get this is all news to me yeah an anonymous poop gifting site was hacked apparently in 2022 so that's um that's the tough part i think i think being able to source weird poop on the internet to take vengeance on people is like kind of harmless fun at the end of the day is it not i'm just like how did he know it was human how i mean you could tell just by things you can tell just by looking at them right i mean if you're walking if you're hiking you're like that's deer poop that's like owl poop yeah you can be like that's a rabbit but nothing looks like human poop as far as i know bear shit looks like bear shit and human poop looks like human poop this is reminding me of a moment where once we saw but looked out the front window at home saw a giant like because the first thing i saw was a bunch of flies a swarm of flies yeah saw a giant giant pile of shit told adam there's some shit on the lawn and he looked at it and he was like that's human because it's just the size of it and he went into like the you know i'm gonna find out who did this mode and then he checked the the camera just a cat taking a gigantic dump on the lawn and then going how to stay is not well going about his day but also i have some questions for adam he's like that cat shit is cleaning it was really big i don't know and he was looking through the window from a distance but this is why people come to house of r you know i'm sorry i'm three pages deep on this search it's not getting me what i want we're gonna follow up but anyway if you know where i can get weird poop zebra poop because i think this is maybe an urban legend but i think it was like that like zookeepers were like selling interesting weird and exotic poop on the internet but then like would it stay fresh in transport do you have to like do you want it to quote stay fresh well if you're gonna use it to like vengeance on someone you don't want a dried up disc that doesn't smell like anything you want something moist what if stinky what if you light it on or if your plan is to light it on fire well i don't know does dry poop catch as well i know a lot less about this than you apparently so i don't feel like i am equipped to answer wait i feel like i mean yeah you use because you can use manure to like start fuel things okay anyway let me think about it sure is it sure is folks it is don't make me feel like the weird one when we have this is a safe space thank you and you are free to express yourself in any form i'm not ever done this but including quite quote there i'm poop curious guys you have your first quote card actually that's like the 10th already by the way since we've been talking i'm just gonna say this into a microphone because i can and it's friday it's my birthday tomorrow it's our five-year anniversary you can do whatever you want let it rip is not the phrase you want to use so close to the poop thing uh we did email tom king mirror like less than an hour ago to ask for the dip recipe they've already sent the uh the dip recipe over let's get on it can i read it to you yeah right now so if you listen to our tom king um interview yeah mallory did me a solid and asked about billy macon's dip his special day yeah and tom said it came from a family recipe book yeah here's the quote that was sent to us uh it's a cookbook owned by my grandma like recipes from friends so not hers also the dip might be deadlier than sinestro that's what tom wrote uh i think it's our responsibility to find out there are three recipes on this page one is called special cheese ring because so his family's from nebraska so this is all like deeply midwest from you know generations previous yeah special cheese ring trevor's birthday fondue so this is the cheese section apparently i love a fondue um i love a fondue yeah the fondue the fondue recipe looks pretty uh this one is called the dip the dip yeah here we go comes from anna i'll withhold her last name in case she doesn't want it out there but anna is the one who sent this in apparently okay one pound hot breakfast sausage okay it's like a jimmy dean okay but hot i'm sure i see yeah hit the skillet okay not hot temp like hot like hot spicy spicy i see okay okay one and a half we can we can do we can do we can lower the spice level for you i enjoy i enjoy a spicy spicy you're like surely one pound of hot breakfast sausage is on the meat in this no no more one and a half pounds ground round okay okay so that's what he mentioned he was like yeah yeah right okay one small onion chopped what kind it doesn't say okay i would say yellow a small yellow yeah okay yeah great um raw well you brought you're gonna brown it with the meat okay okay this i'm was not mentioned by him but like uh-huh uh it's not cream thank god okay it's the midwest hot dish classic which is cream of mushroom soup one cup cream of mushroom soup oh yeah oh you have my attention here one can hot tomatoes i don't know what that okay like a like a a peeled tomato a stewed tomato well sure but like what does hot tomatoes mean oh i don't know are they spicy as well oh god i don't know and then two pounds of velveta cheese and then it says add cayenne pepper if you want it hotter makes a lot good for a crowd serve with chips i mean i think we should make this but maybe not quite as hot as this calls for because it's hot tomatoes hot breakfast sausage and then add cayenne pepper if you want to this sounds delicious i think we need the scoops oh yeah yeah yeah yeah it's a little bowl so this might be social content if we decide we want to ruin our stomachs next week stay tuned stay tuned maybe five years is a good run and then we die thank you tom king for sending us the dip the best we may or may not post this on social maybe we'll redact the name so poor anna from nebraska doesn't have to be you shout it out for her dip um all right carrie stands that's literally by her man stands up one thing i want to say on the costuming front again all the button downs look great but uh i thought it was really interesting in this scene um all of the background uh actors inside this scene are dressed in like neutral blues and browns and like yellows it's like very sort of like blend into the background sort of thing and then uh hal is dressed in this dark button down and then carrie has this like silky white button down so she really just pops yeah uh among the scene uh of the patrons of the paschetti's and at paschetti's pastoria restaurant white it's a risk it's a risk yeah do you think she got some she's a regular at she knows how to get it she knows how to twirl her to not splash or i would imagine i'm like i can't remember the last time i was at a like a like a spaghetti warehouse syracuse new york got me through college spaghetti factory shout out but imagine wearing that button down to like ramen the splashiest of all like the date night meals that you can i mean listen if you're about to go home to fuck hal jordan it's just one more reason to be like better get this off i gotta soak this um all right i loved i loved the setup to this being hal saying i i know how hard you worked to earn respect in this town so much of this conclusion of this season is seeing how hal um you know you already mentioned that we hear him say like his selfish reasons so it's about finding ways to do the selfless thing and think about other people when he rejects sinestro at the end not only are we thinking about hal's evolution and hal and john together but like it's a pretty selfless thing to be like i actually i'm gonna pass on that maybe bullshit but still offer to like resurrect me from the dead i have some notes on that for you um i agree with your larger point obviously i do feel like hal took the decade in prison and and spent time on whatever the opposite of the manosphere is and he's just sort of like yeah i support your career honey yes exactly he's done career first done some therapy for sure um when carrie says he could have gone anywhere he's still a hero most places so like paschetti's a villain but that taqueria he might still be a hero and just thinking about what it means to be the lantern of a sector and like all the you know when you've tasted the pleasures of the galaxy like i like to be a hero but i don't like to be a hero i don't like to be a hero i don't that line a lot not only because of do you think he's a hero in guadalajara that's that was what just here's the top tier joy of my life listening to kelly mcdonald in her accent which i've come to like i'm not going to guadalajara guadalajara really something kelly mcdonald's accent has really grown on me in terms of like it's still interesting of not of earth but this is something i say a lot about accents as long as you're consistent with it i can just sort of like get yes to it you're and so like her vowel sounds are all alien and bizarre but they're all always the same that's true Like, that's just what Sheriff Carey sounds like. You know what? Guadalajara. Like, you know, that's just what she sounds like. That is a good point. She is not doing the Littlefinger's accent is not only always astonishing, but changes every two and a half episodes. It's a good point and a very generous read, I would say. Thank you. I just, I did really like reminding us that, like, not only did Hal not have to go back to Rushville, though obviously we understand why he is, for Carey, but also to do the penance. This sense of guilt and shame that we hear, why did Zoe go back to Antot's planet? All of it connected. But, like, just, you know, that there could be places elsewhere in the galaxy that he could go where he'd still just be idolized, where they wouldn't know or care about what had happened. It tells us a lot. It's not just that he chose to go here. It's he chose to go here when he could have gone other places and lived a different life, you know? Though I guess he can't really go off planet anymore. Well, yeah, go off planet anymore. But, like, I think back, like, in, you know, his hometown or something like that, like, I thought she meant sort of, like, elsewhere in the world. Yeah. He's still, like, our Greenland, our former Greenlander. Go fly, you know. And especially after a couple years of Guy Gardner, people are like, what's a Nebraska town? I mean, on the Guy Gardner front, like, you know, he's like, you tricked me with John later. How hard would it be for Hal to be like, Guy, I need you to fly me to a different planet? That's true. The tentacle one. The tentacle sex one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, the crucible, you know, we have very, very, very different context. But, like, when Zoe and John in episode five were talking, you know, like, the crucible that forges your greatest self. The idea that Hal is, like. This is the crucible for me returning to Rushville. It's a nice little way to reinforce that. I like how almost, like, Paschetti, Posteria Italian you got there. Like. It's a me. All right. So, she says, he deserves peace. We all do. We all do. I'm wondering if that's on John's mind at the end, right? Like. Yes. That the Makins deserve peace. We all do. You know, that there's. Yes. Carry shot. Hal in the head. We don't love it. It's not great that, that, you know, that our guy Noah's a manhunter. Yeah. Billy seems like kind of a piece of shit. But, like, how much were their lives warped by Zoe coming to town in the first place and everything that happened in Rushville? So, something to think about. I. The, the, you know, the he's with me kind of, like, end note and sitting down and taking a bite of the ghost town. Wow. I mean, boy, it's. That look. That look on Hal's face. Oh. The gratitude and the flirtation and the smile and the smirk. But it made me think, like. But, like, has anyone ever done that? Exactly. Especially coming off of episode seven, which we love so much and what we got to glimpse with Hal and, and his dad. Like, it, it just made me think, God, how long has it been since Hal has had someone really just stand there. Punch his Little League coach for him. And punch his Little League coach in the face. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we had our notes on that, but there is something about just, like, feeling undeniably that someone is in your corner. Yeah. Absolutely. It was. It was. It was great. Mallory. I'm in your corner. Brother, that's all that matters. Post-coital download about what Noah knows and when he knows it. When you first watch this scene and Kyle Chandler is naked in bed, but for the cowboy boots, and they're talking about what Noah knows and when he knows it. Did you just hear wah, wah, wah, wah? Because you were so distracted by the scene laid before you. So, I screamed aloud when we caught. I screamed. I screamed aloud. We cut to this. And Carrie is getting dressed. And then we switch camera angles and we see Hal behind her, naked in bed, sheet over him, and then cowboy boots in bed. Now, I have some hygiene notes on cowboy boots in bed, but I'm willing to allow it here because I think it means they just. He's changing the sheets. They're changing the sheets. And, like, I like to think just, you know, there was not time to take the shoes off. So desperate were they to touch each other. The. No. No. Follow up. Uh-huh. Cowboy boots had to go back on because you can't get the jeans off. Well, but is he wearing a wide, like, a wide. I guess he's not. Yeah. Imagine how awkward it would be to, like, kick the jeans off with the cowboy boots. So, I think the cowboy boots came off. Chili toes? I think they came off and she's like, put the boots back on, Tex. Oh. And he did it. That's what I think. Oh. Yeah. Maybe I love that, obviously. Let's go with that. Could also be, you know, some different positions. Needed some arch support. Sure. Maybe they tried it outside and he's like, gotta get some shoes on. Maybe he had to run outside at one point. Like, he got naked. Had to run outside. Had to run outside at some point because they left more human fecal matter on his lawn. Hopefully that was complete. This night was just, that was not a part of this night at all. Hopefully, yes. The, I was just like, oh my God, they're getting dressed. We didn't get it. We didn't. Now, implied sex, great, as we've talked about before recently. But then, then we got the kiss. We got the smooch. And the little stay. Stay. I just was, like, melting watching this. I'm willing you to stay. Try asking instead of willing. And then he just. He just says stay. It's like, they felt to me here, like, for. I love this, but I will just say this. This is slightly mothering an adult, an adult man. When she's like, try it, like, a question. And then he says stay anyway. But I did love it. Um, I, that, that is undeniable. You're right. I felt, uh, that it was like, two people have been through a lot who felt, probably for the first time in a long time, like, they were just shy middle schoolers almost. Cute. You know? Cute. Like, unsure, happy to be chosen by each other, happy to be falling in love, but kind of unsure of what the next step is. And I think the idea of stay, you know, I was thinking back to when John went through Hal's mansion and we talked about this at the time, but like, you know, the no second nightstand, right? In his bedroom when we saw his house and like all of the, the, the, the reinforcements there that like, it was a shelter for him, but not a home. And also that he was clearly other than with Earl, obviously. Shout out Earl. Not. Not sharing it with anybody. So stay. It's like, this isn't just sex. This isn't just lust. Like, share my life with me. I really, really, really loved it. I mean, I both agree with that and also think if he's moving back to Rushville, like, all of that is quite clear. Also, I just want to say, I feel bad for like, thinking that Hal moved into this shitty place. That's right. Because his house is quite nice. Lovely. I mean, he has a ton of money. So like, it made sense. I was like, wondering why he was living in this dingy, like, unless it was like, penance or something like that. But no, he lived in this lovely house with an Americana, American flag out front. And it got burnt to shit by some locals. Firebombed. Firebombed. I just want a moment for the sheets. These are great sheets. These are like, linen sheets. Oh, I love a lot of sheets. In lovely, like, contrasting earth tones. I think it looked like, you know, there's just like, a sham and everything. Like, it's just, it's really good. I don't know if it's just like, a parachute situation. I am. I am a personal parachute linen sheet user. West Elm, Pottery Brown. I love a bamboo. No free ads. I love a bamboo. No free ads. No free ads. But parachute if you're listening. But Quince, we have done ads for you. And you have great bamboo sheets. So something to think about. Carrie asked him to go to the game. And he's impossibly touched. Oh my God. Are we meant to think, we have some questions about the timeline. Are we meant to think that this is the game? I think so. Where he dies? It feels like this is, I mean, who knows. But it did feel to me like this is like. Kind of this like, final week here. These final days. So let's say it's Sunday night date night, let's say. Mm-hmm. Sunday night his house burns down. Tough. When does he find the, gets resurrected, Monday morning resurrected. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Does his like, weird slow driving detective work to the Hammond meat portal factory on a Tuesday? Sure, why not? Okay. Yeah. Somewhere in all of this has found himself new lodgings. That's right. Has rigged up a shotgun. Yep. Uh, has, has said something to Bernadette that has encouraged John to come to town. That's right. And Carrie has been to the new house because she knows about the shotgun. Yeah. So we have questions about this. You did some real boots on the ground investigative journalism by asking Tom King about this in terms of Earl. Everyone will have to check that out. But. You know, I was thinking a lot when, when Tom King said that. When this fire happens and like poor Earl, who's being carried around by Hal. The shriek. Is scared and his little like roots. I mean, weird to see him. I'm sort of like unpot it like this, but like his little harrowing root tentacles are like quivering in fear. Yeah. Like what else can those tentacles do? Oh my goodness. This is an all time historic showing for me so far on this episode. Unbelievable stuff. Unbelievable stuff. Tom King is the one who introduced this idea. Yeah. And then said multiple times, that's not canon. This is great. The, uh. We love a thruffle. We love a polycule. We sure do. The, and you know, if you have a pet. You know, like every now and then they like to watch it is what it is. The. Watch is one thing. Sure. Watch is one thing. Participate. Quite another. The. I am a little unsure of the timeline because. We're all shaky on it. So that's, that's my question of like, is this the same game? So. Yeah. So let's say it did all happen in a week. Right. Let's say. Because it feels like when Hal confronts Carrie about Noah. That, just that scene, it plays like this is the first time they have interacted since he found out about Noah. So I was like, is that the first time they've seen each other? Yeah. It can't be. Right. It can't be. If she's come to the shotgun apartment. If she's seen the shotgun. So then it's like, is it maybe not after just the, I woke up with a pinch of my flesh removed and was realized Noah was a manhunter. And they had sex again and she didn't know that he had a manhunter. Yeah. Whole bunch in his arm. They're exploring every inch of each other every time. So that's, I don't quite, that doesn't totally hold up. But maybe he had to get his like Guadalajara ducks in a row before he could like spring this on her. And they waited till he did the, the slow car creep and then the portal. And maybe, I mean, maybe the reason. Chatted with Sinestro and then confront. Obviously. the Carrie confrontation after all that. But like maybe it was something about John being there sort of accelerated his need to say like we need to get Noah out of here like John was here so like we need to go yeah right because like things are heating up if John's been here and he's seen me and it's just a little I don't totally I can't quite get my mind and arms around in order but Hal found out Noah was a manhunter and didn't bring it up so let's it doesn't make sense we don't know how to reconcile it let's pretend it is the same game yeah devastating horrible for her to be like come to this game and him to be so together oh my god harm other people and they and they kiss and it's like that's where you're gonna die I'm gonna kill you that very very much that's where I'm gonna kill you tough brutal absolutely brutal just I that's a good example of that moment in particular of like so lovely to watch but really torturous on a rewatch when you know it's pain pain pain pain cruel to be kind getting food for Earl I can't take another heartache yeah it's a great song they've done a great job with the music oh yeah the music has been really good I I do have some questions about the last one we could talk about it um Noah yeah as we're as we're balancing his sort of like wait we have to talk about Earl for another second before we get to ask about Earl okay good I was not ready to move on from Earl I'm about to ask about Earl thank god as we weigh Noah's like manhunt you know yeah yeah manhunter versus nature versus nurture whatever he saved Hal from the fire much like his grandmother saved John and Earl I don't know where he put Earl but he saved Earl Earl was not singed when when we saw him so so uh moderated the HBO panel this morning and I asked a few of my own questions at the beginning but we have some you know pre-submitted questions from the journalists in attendance and there were a lot of Earl questions including did Noah reskin Earl this was a question and so I got it in in the final I was like we have one minute left I have to ask them about this because of course you're wondering watching the episode how can you not be and they were like sure you guys have really gone deep on this the the viewers of lantern so and then and then we got it there wasn't Damon was like I think Earl regenerates on his own you know so that was interesting that like maybe Earl's just his biology his physiology like he is able to withstand that in a way that Hal or or another parallel here with Hal and John with the fire and then the the manhunter healing obviously but there was not a formal uh confirmation that Noah had healed Earl but so we don't he at least fished him out of the fire didn't leave him to burn yeah to a crisp which is something when he dragged we used his man teenage manhunter strength to drag Hal out of the fire he scooped up Earl and whether or not he like regenerated him I don't I mean I do care but like the saving was my real question agreed and I want to I do want to know if like Earl has you know if they have Earl's DNA does Earl have some manhunter blood in his equivalent of it like you know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know if they have Earl's DNA does Earl have some manhunter blood in his equivalent of it like an eyeball which she doesn't have that his mouth I don't know what it would be mouthful I would like to go back in time to reopen the did Carrie and Hal have sex in the new apartment yeah um between uh him being okay I think it would be a real waste of the brand new highly sensitized skin if Hal did not have a sexual encounter with Carrie just to try out the newly skinned uh body you know this is a great point I'm thinking back now to John and I'm like I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know you know he did leave early Noah's like careful that's right you've got your skin is new yeah and we we can remember that John said it it you know he described it when he was on the phone with his parents it's like he had like I'm trying to remember but it was something like rolled down like a hill of glass or something like that so would it be too painful or would it be healing and soothing what I love about we still have all the questions we've just asked about Earl's placement by the bed but just seeing Hal yeah from minute one when we met Earl's placement by the bed Earl we were like Hal Jordan pet guy this really endears us to him oh carrying him around the instant that the fire hits the first thing he does is run to scoop up Earl and protect him and then holding him cradling him like this was so sweet and wonderful and poor Earl shrieks of terror and then the stairs collapsed and Hal fell through and I was like what just happened to Earl is he squished under him or what's going on but uh it was just very sweet when you teach your screenwriting course are you gonna rename the save the cat section save the Earl save the space plant maybe save the aliens maybe it's it's entirely possible it's entirely possible all right so we get this close-up on that Manhunter arm punch that gave so many people so much hope in the trailers or or theory fodder but they know what they're doing but no alas no that's right uh he has not been cloned as far as we know who knows what the future holds um they've got that dna they have that hell dna um he has just been healed um one more moment there to believe it was Hal and then we're gonna go to the next one and we're gonna go to the next one it was Billy even though we knew it was Noah we were just everyone was sure well you want more you were on thigh watch so I mean when you when he walks in and it's the boots and the legs and just the cuff of the jacket I was like that could be Billy but no Noah of course it had to be Noah I'm interested in the story of Noah figuring out his nature and like finding finding the tech like uh you know Sinestro says like his grandmother left it to him so like you know was it just that like Carrie doesn't know that Noah knows but Zoe had already told him and we know that Zoe had been wisdom to him had she already told him who he was did she leave a letter behind you know or did he uh just figure it out because he was somehow faster and stronger than all of his you know like what is what is the story of of Noah Macon figuring out like he's not human yeah I was wondering about this too I it's like a little tough to believe that Carrie wouldn't know that he knew this about himself I guess but I don't know teenage boys are private secrets yeah maybe it's not that hard to believe um I'm getting Aaron Stanford as pyro energy from him oh I see that yeah yeah the hairstyle in particular I I thought I thought this kid was really was really good in the in the car scene in particular I um yeah you know the like you said saving Earl obviously was just healing Hal we'll hear him say later you know John I didn't start the fire I saw the smoke and I went to help like this is always burning since the world in turn sing it legally can I that's uh probably not I mean I mean you could but let's not risk it the uh you know actually showing us that there is this desire inside of Noah to be good it's not just him saying it declaring it later we've we know there's proof here um yeah the Zoe not the the when did Zoe tell I my headcanon I guess is Zoe had always told Noah who he was but whether she had or she left it for him in a letter the Martin comp the legacy right the Jordan boys legacy comp or something else either way in a safe in the back of her closet maybe yeah under the workbench like either way it's a secret that he carries alone it's a burden that he has that he's not sharing with anybody with his mom and so there's that could be talking about women can't carry these kinds of things could be talking about it with mom but she's you know I can't wait to talk about the the finger becoming the the baby later the finger DNA I mean I didn't literally become the baby but the DNA that was just a wild really uh some real survivor crossover energy there oh okay we won't in case anyone who's listening to this is not current on survivor we won't say the person but I was shocked I mean it was in all the trailers that's true it was they showed a chunk of finger yeah that was just a thumb tip it's the open era baby I was like they zoomed in that was wild stuff um okay a lot of us had assumed that Hal had figured out or detected or gut sussed like Noah's identity but it turns out no even like having been uh had his skin regrown and Noah standing over him he's like has to be told overtly what are you what are you what are you I mean in his defense his house was firebombed he had all of his skin you know melted off and then he was healed by a man probably gone through a lot he's been bragging about his gut for a really long time and I'm just sort of like and he is to that point he is obviously like paying attention to Noah because when you know when he says to carry like I'm pretty sure no one knows about us that felt like he was like he's like I'm watching how he watches me and awesome what he thinks and everything so yeah um it's a miss for Hal it's a miss for Hal there's it's a it's a miss for Hal do you now that we so we had you know I love podcasting so it's the best love podcasting with you it's just this is the highlight of my life every now and then I am like when you're breaking down the show in the level of detail we are it's impossible to not let your theory brain run wild you know like I was thinking back to last week but what if a man what if Hal is a man hunter comes to the finale and you're like that's not gonna happen I'm like I know but what if it did that didn't happen that's for the best this is a different version of that I said that's not gonna happen like that no no no here's the question though I support you and all of your theories I'm glad it didn't happen I think that would have been like a man and I don't even know I just didn't want it to happen narratively like yeah like Tom talked about this a bit but it's just sort of like if you're gonna open your show with we've killed Hal Jordan to walk it back in any kind of way I think is shitty cowardly story so this is my question because I think we're in the same place in the finale very relieved that that didn't happen we'll talk about the hologram version of this later but in terms of the fact that that this manhunter lab does have Hal's DNA what do you think that I don't don't do with I don't want that yeah me neither I do want the hologram to come same same that's how I'm gonna like thread that needle if I still get Kyle Chandler but the real Hal is dead you know so there need to be lasting consequences for a narrative death yeah but we can still have the hologram that jacket gone gone forever okay caught monologuing sinestro my god uh quick shout out to daniel chin's uh sinestro explainer great stuff from our guy daniel crushing that really good um this entire so it's just worth remembering from the moment carrie uh no from no like from the moment outside the prison she shows up with the schlitz cowboy boots and all yeah through the fire etc etc this is all sinestro weaving the tail telling the tale gotta fill them in yeah i'm just curious about the level of detail i'm curious of how much i mean i'm we're supposed to take this as an objective truth i believe yes but like this is hal's version that he told sinestro that now sinestro has told john just so dude just like i would just like you to think about sinestro sitting there chained up being like and then after they fucked and he was laying there just to the cowboy boots and she was buttoning up the silky button and it was called paschetti's pastoria and she said the best garlic bread in western nebraska and this hal this john is why humans incredible to think about you're right i also on the kind of sinestro comedy front just the very beginning of this when we caught him we so it was noah who broke you out we'll talk about that part of it in a second obviously but the indicated that boy has become a man and he's powerful i was like sinestro is just everyone in the rushville stands holding a making love to football sign like that boy has become a man and he is powerful no one's holding everyone that energy um okay take the take the victory lap here on mahoney we were united we we love rob oh my god there's no one like him there's no one like him but here's what i've learned over years of podcasting never scoff openly in the face of someone's theory because it will come back to haunt you yeah and in this case i was right about noah being the one to break out sinestro which was just a theory i floated and rob was like no like real scoff energy from rob guess what i was right uh i mean it was one of many theories i like i floated many theories but i did float that theory and he was like now yeah and i was right and you thought of me in that moment yes i did my vindication i sure did sinestro's chained up looking like some unholy pink combo of john lock and ben linus as far as i'm concerned um exposition dumps about who broke him out of prison it was noah what if despite this being a he had you know opened his mouth and it's been an orange like john let's just rewatch lost why not i saw it's with my arm do you think lost would it would lost have been in your top 10 we didn't get your top 10 new york times oh it wasn't my top 10 oh yeah yeah yeah did you post your top 10 somewhere i didn't okay i have to just in your mind in your heart i have to find it um but yeah lost was lost was in my top 10 um hardest one to leave out for me was deadwood i agonized flip to that and and battle star a few times that was a tough one but yeah lost was lost gotta be no no question absolutely no question uh when when sinestro's like i want to talk to hal right like let me speak to your manager yes um sorry he's not available then avail him wonderful pleased me poet deeply yeah deeply pleased by that john's gut tells him that noah wouldn't save hal just to kill him so john's gut becoming sort of like the driving correct gut force because of the fact that he's not available because hal is like you gotta fire up the lantern or he's gonna kill you know like hal's just gonna be the hologram is just gonna be wrong about noah and it's gonna be john who says yeah i believe in this kid i really it was for satisfying when john was like so your gut's always right but mine yeah and just actually kind of invoked that directly really good really great um on the satisfying front little but the part of the noah thing there were so many reasons that felt likely and like it would make sense but it is like a nice little oh all this like you know sinestro talks about the tech right it's like all season long this manhunter tech talk and this like macon ranch tech talk and the fact that like this question of like who would actually have been able to do this thing you know there are only so many plausible options right at the end of the day yeah it's either wiley coyote or liana or a manhunter and liana's like i'm not gonna be participating in the like i've done my my days on this show okay so we get the enhanced interrogation techniques some like uh gitmo uh in the fear water stuff from john tough look from john here i gotta say i did not i did not endorse this this was this was rough not my hottest fave yeah um i did though like the right before then the um you know the question of like why is from john who of course is this connection to zoe so he's he's fact finding and piecing things together in a number of different ways but he's like why would she do that like why would she have come here same reason jordan came back to rushville weakness and guilt now obviously sinestro is a villain so he is that is not um how we are are meant to think about it and see it and i like this idea of you know uh sinestro is a character who sees an action like that what zoe did going back what hal has done going back to rushville as shameful right as some sort of limit and we see it as like what it is which is an attempt to seek penance for your wrongs a sign of growth the the humanity whether you're hal or a manhunter kind of rising and an acknowledgement of the failure i i liked that i like all this i will say as zoe macon's defense attorney so people are don't go back to the scene of the genocide i mean no uh serial killers going back to the scene killers going back to the scene of the crime never a thing to do yeah i just feel like a lot of people are making a lot of assumptions about zoe's motivation inside of this episode like john's like i knew your grandma really well and she wanted me to kill hal and she wanted me to kill her and i was just sort of like i i can buy that yeah but you know it's just sort of like yeah or sinestro's like this is why zoe did this and i'm like i'm not sure that i yeah feel what if she had told noah that and then noah told sinestro okay sure when he was a child she's like young grandson i'm gonna tell you who you are genocide once and here's a an acme cartoon portal don't tell your mom have you heard of the einstein yeah could have happened all right so let's know admits that he forged noah lantern kind of pleased about our dinklage bit from last week oh my god i know i just that was incredible the handle the lantern it's the axe um this made me think of you because it reminded me of talking you know during the loki run about the the that look the thread of gold and the citadel at the end of time and yeah so this you know for sinestro obviously the um weaponization of fear and everything the fact that he could take a he he's saying these things about fear and it's like from the inverse intention and reason but like he still has a level of clarity that the guardian stone is just you know inverted from what our heroes are seeing but like you know there's a version of that where you look at that lantern and it's like wow okay um invoking the idea of imperfect embracing imperfection and impurity yeah what which is what kintsugi is about it which is like you break you break something you mend it with this with the gold and you keep you you're not trying to make it look like it was never broken yeah you're trying to create beauty out of the growth the broken parts of growth which fits so perfectly you know this that's how the light gets in that's how the light gets it fits so perfectly for john's arc and for hal's arc of course sinestro is like power fear weapon you know dun dun dun blaring sirens but can i just say if i had like a dollar for every time kintsugi came up in like a prestige show that i was covering it's a lot that they they love this as like a thematic sort of visual image and it works every time it really does i think this the design on this lantern is extremely really cool looks great um we did get so in the comics sinestro is exiled to the planet q word is that how you pronounce that which i think is a play on coward it's not my favorite uh play on words i've ever seen in a comic book in the antimatter universe is where the weaponers of cured or maybe cord uh forged him a yellow ring we got an email from a listener matt last week who says that's fucking cord or word cord right in the comics that's where sinestro gets his yellow ring he has had it for decades before the other land and colors are revealed guy gardener even uses it for good chunk of the 80s and 90s the yellow dust and weather extremes giving big cord cured energy to me did the manhunters annihilate this place because the yellow energy of fear no like was anton a weaponer or a thunderer like i don't think they're literally doing that yeah um but obviously they're like invoking this yeah iconic sort of uh comic location certainly yeah and just then you know what it means for comic fans to see sinestro sitting there and to think about the potential future you know who knows what the future for sinestro and the dcu is for lanterns as a show but the idea of like okay our guy is not happy to have been abandoned there previously or again when john and halogram walk away he's terrified he's on a fear toxin planet like he's like don't dip me in don't dip me in cast away like i thought that was a really weird line like some kind of castaway it's like a really weird exit line for sinestro yeah but and you know the okay like is this the is this the bridge to sinestro core and to the fear emotion as his primary weapon he's gonna break loose of the chains forge himself a yellow ring and an even like kinsugier lantern yeah and um and just rain down terror and fear everywhere i mean this was not a show that chose to do this ultimately but like if that had been the stinger it wouldn't have been shocking no you know how worried are you then about what is in john's lantern Is this where you want to talk about that? Did you want to do it later when he says the oath? When the hologram says, you don't know what that lantern might do, I just say, I agree. If I'm John, here's what I'll do. Yeah, I'll soup up the ring on my cool Kintsugi lantern, but then I'm going to go and find another lantern. Get another one. Get another one that's not chock-a-block full of fear. That would be my recommendation. People replace their iPhone cables all the time. Don't be afraid of being afraid. Great lesson. But be afraid of that lantern. Don't charge yourself up with fear juice. It's funny because it felt very emblematic of the discussions we've been having all season. And a very smart choice for that reason, where it does plant those seeds of worry. Okay, a fear-imbued lantern forged on this fear-toxin planet. Does that mean that John is going to be, is he being set up to be vulnerable to the future fear-powered Sinestro Corps or whatever else it might be? Or, you know, is it another way? It's another way of saying, of literalizing the idea that, like, John pairing that with his custom oath, with this outlook that he has, right, of embracing and accepting fear, right? I embrace my fear. I'll do what's right. Just one more way to make John even stronger, even more advanced and more evolved. That feels, like, thematically appropriate as a read in this episode. That doesn't rule out the vulnerability in the future, obviously. And I really like just Sinestro saying here, you know, The Lantern Corps thinks that fear. Fear makes you weak. They couldn't be more wrong. If harnessed correctly, fear can be the most powerful force in the universe. Fear is just evolutionary intelligence. Show me a species that's fearless. I'll show you something on the extinction list. Because you have, like, yeah, he's right that the Lantern Corps is wrong. But he's wrong in his response to that and how he's, like, channeling it. And, you know, he's not talking about conquering fear. He's talking about embracing it or weaponizing it to try to instill it in other people. Here's a note that I have for this sequence. And I'm willing to accept the explanation that Sinestro's not at the top of his game. He's been marinating on the fear planet. He's chained up. We don't know how long it took him to tell that whole flashback story. Just huddling under the little tarp. You know, it's just, like, not going great for Sinestro. That being said, for the master of manipulation that is Sinestro, I thought this was some really clumsy work. Was it funny? You mentioned this in the Tom King interview. Was it funny to watch him sort of flip-flop? Back and forth between, like, how we can overpower him to John. He doesn't want you to have the ring. But it was just, like, so badly done that I was just sort of like, again, I'm willing to accept he's not at it. But, like, again, when I'm thinking about the Ben Linus comp, because I'm always thinking about Ben Linus, this character from Lost that is so incredible, is, like, he would have manipulated his way out of this conversation into a chicken dinner. You know what I mean? And so it's just sort of like, I kind of want to see Sinestro be good at it. Sure. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And I mean. That's, like, if we had more time. I want more time to, in this final stretch, to, like, watch Sinestro be good at it. To maybe watch Sinestro, like, convince Hal for a minute. Something we asked, we talked to Tom King about, and I still have some questions about, is, like, when does the hologram learn the truth about what Sinestro did? You had this, like, beautiful comment that you're, like, you like that the hologram sides with John. Yes. Despite the fact that he. He is not the Hal who has gone through the betrayal of Sinestro. But I still think it's, like, his flip answer of, like, you talk too much. Sure. You always did. No question. It's annoying. Is, like, super weird if the Sinestro betrayal is the thing that, like. For sure. So broke Hal that it turned him from the 2006 Halogram into, I think the word that Tom King used and I loved was ornery version of himself in 2016. So, like, what we've been assuming this whole time or, you know, not even assuming, but, like, sort of. Spurring from the evidence presented to us is that Sinestro's betrayal fundamentally broke something inside of Hal. So for the hologram to just be, like, Sinestro, you talk too much. You always did. It's annoying. But, like, such a sort of speed through a revelation or a conflict that I would have loved to have more time with. I agree. There's, like, an incongruity there that's does, like, kind of ask us to do a little bit of that work on our own, I think. Um, the fact that we have seen Sinestro operate at that expert manipulative capacity in the prison scenes when Hal visited him earlier in the season and we could see the way that he was able to work him. Yeah. Tell me about Jon Stewart. Yeah. It makes what you're, what you're saying here, I think, feel, feel even, even more keen. Um, but again, you know, marooned on the, on the fair planet, I guess it would, it would have an effect on any of us. Um, but yes, I did quite like that. We got from Hal here, a version of Jon rejecting the ring, you know, like Sinestro's pitch of, he can't get you out of his head. He'll stay whole. If we have your ring, I can bring you back to life for real. Um, Hal's selfishness and certainly with the ring specifically and what it represented. The Gollum ask my precious attachment to it. The hologram is a less cynical, less jaded, all the things we've talked about for the this mentor, a person who knows how to work him to has that sway and hold over him to pitch him on you bullshit probably, but like maybe not like you get to do it again. Yeah. And for hologram to say no to that felt like Aragorn folding Frodo's hand back over the ring and saying, I would have followed you to the very fires of Mordor. Exactly. Just so exactly that. Exactly. That, uh, yeah. So no, John concludes, I agree with you. I think, I think that, you know, like a powerful moment. Again, I think I would have loved a little bit more time with it. I could have taken a whole episode with the three of these people. Oh my God. You know, like I think it would have been great. Yeah. John concludes that Noah wanted the lantern and a ring to take his revenge on the guardians, but detective Hal chimes in and, and claims that Noah was conflicted basically by his hat ceremony choice. I mean the, the nature versus nurture Navy versus the skirts. Right. Yeah. Uh, really wild that this all comes down to essentially that hat ceremony being even more like, you know, keen eye from you, Mally Rubin, as always, as ever, but the hat ceremony, like choose good or choose evil, choose the Navy or choose the Huskers is like what this finale is about. And at the end of the day, that's why he needed more time because he was trying to figure out who he wanted to be. Um, well, and get, get the scouts in to look at his, I guess, puny lineman. I am, I'm sort of out on this conversation because as you know, I don't know anything about sports. I don't know anything about sports. But the outrage over the size of the linemen and also the numbers, I guess they're not wearing numbers that are eligible numbers. Yeah. So yeah. I received many text messages about the numbers. We got a lot of emails about it. A lot of comments. Great stuff. And, uh, I noticed you didn't, uh, interrogate, uh, the creators of the show about it. No. Yeah. You know, we all have our limits. Um, I, uh, yeah, the, you know, Sinestro. Seeing Noah springing him from prison, the Lantern commissioning as like an opportunity, right? Here is a kid who I could potentially use to overthrow the Guardians to keep, to keep doing a coup. Um. We love a coup. We love, we love a coup and we love characters doing a coup. I would like that on the Sinestro front. I would like to see that still, you know? I would like to see that story. On the House of Our Merch front. Do a coup? Do a coup. Hiya. On a t-shirt. What would be number one? Do a coup? Um, like, let's go down to the oceans, hun. Like, which stuff go? Which stuff go? Probably a very high up. Obviously, back in the day, it would have been a working title, but that's a long time ago now. A working title is a very old working title. Yeah. Uh, the shirt that one of our listeners had at the Baltimore game that was, uh, get in the pitmari. Get in the pitmari. Show us your toe beans. Yeah, show us your toe beans. There are the bitch that was promised. That's a great one. Uh, God's be good. Certainly still. Oh, yeah. Dear me. Yeah. Dear. Oh, this is a stuff Lionel. Have you ever been one? Dear me. Oh, have you ever been one? Oh, my God. Wow. Oh, I would probably. Oh, boy. Those are all good. I might cast my vote for dear me, though. I might for. Is Galadriel here? That's a great one. But if we did dear me, it could be the two apples and it could say dear me and each of them. Oh, but then we have to have like a bee flying around in honor of Beesbury. Naturally. Lyman, our guy. It all comes back to Lionel. It all comes back to the bees. Oh, my God. You know, for Noah, like, so you're the only one who's ever killed a guardian. That's why Noah broke you out. I like thinking about because we're Noah's to the hat ceremony point and him thinking about different versions of a future like, you know, we hear him talk and share a little bit later. Thinking back to like the nature or thinking about the nature always wins line from Sinestro here, you know, revenge, but also protection. The ability to be ready. The ability to defend. If they come looking like Zoe was always thinking about what if they come looking and so Noah has to think as we'll hear later, like if they I would have a ring, I would have a lantern. That's something he'll say later. You know, that's Zoe John exchange from episode five. You said it yourself. You can't ignore your nature. And then, you know what she says? I had to. I couldn't help it. Yeah. It's obviously very top of mind, mostly in a tender way when we're when we're hearing Noah say everything that he says to John. But it was hard not to think about it here, too. And Sinestro. kind of taunts, you know? can't because then you we don't the message of the show is not to believe that it's to it's to to to challenge it and say i can i can set my own course but we had this really powerful moment in the show where zoe was like i couldn't help it right and and later john is like and in that moment she was basically saying to me shoot me kill me that's john's interpretation of that scene um you know the story you know this the the story of the scorpion and the frog oh sure yeah yeah yeah so i was telling that story to a friend of mine once um who had never heard the story and i was like oh the scorpion the frog like it is my nature right that that that you know they there's a body of water scorpion's like hey mr frog so me i know you know the story i'm just telling you hey miss frog uh will you swim me across the the river yeah right the frog's like you're gonna sting me yep and the scorpion's like i would never do that if i did that we both drown i wouldn't never do that it would be dumb to do it and he gets on the back of the frog the frog swims across and the scorpion stings him he's like why did you do this and he goes it is my nature that's how i told that story and then my friend got got that embroidered on a pillow for me it's like the scorpion the frog and says it is my nature but i was i've been thinking about that a lot when it comes to like zoe and noah and all of that it's just like it is my nature it's a scorpion like what are you gonna do yeah you know go go play for the huskers i guess the skurs the skurs but then we have like hologram walking away following john out and it's like he's that's that's challenging his nature rebelling against his nature you know so we have all of these like but it's it's the fear it's the fear right yes it's like that's their nature there's they know no other way and this is what the manhunter will do and that's a fear-based reaction absolutely and john's like i'm thinking about my fear am i what i like about john and tom talked about this like so beautifully in the interview have you have you watched it yet you should go listen or watch our tom king interview but like tom talked really eloquently about how like noah has become john's responsibility yeah and and what i really like is what that means is that john is not ignoring his fear about noah he has fears about noah i'm not afraid to be afraid i'm afraid i'm afraid he might do this but it's i'm not going to let that fear drive uh the car here right i'm just gonna live inside of that fear and keep one eye open i guess on uh what's going on in uh nebraska or or if he's transferred to annapolis you know what i mean and i'm just gonna live inside of that fear and then i gotta take him out you know like it's it's that's really interesting to me in terms of like yes you're afraid what does that fear yeah bring you to do and can you let it dominate you or can you coexist with it yes and the you know obviously we'll build on this episode toward i'll embrace my fear and the oath toward the just beautiful hal john moment don't be afraid to be afraid all of it the thesis of the season but like when tom was saying that to us it made me think of the the um the hal martin memory from episode seven that we were talking about a lot in the episode seven deep dive pod he said it was a man's responsibility to make preparations and that like what we're seeing from john there how he's thinking about like what this is like a a healthier version of that right like john has talked so much across the season about you know back when it was like do you like him well like i respect him and how the lessons from his father about like how he's like you know he's like you know he's like you know he's like like how he the admiration for people who like protect right and that's always been there and a part of it and so john finding his own way i was thinking now i'm jumping all over the episode but like i was thinking of your question your observation from last week about oh it's so interesting that john called out like the institution because of course here there's like he's like i'm not participating right he disrespected me he disrespected the institution then here to guy he's like fuck the institution yeah yeah and so what a perfect kind of way to germs and seeds are there in john's john's forged forged version that makes sense for him all right i'm calling this section lanterns divided yes john and hal talk about whether to charge the ring or not seven minutes of charge left i don't know where this information came i guess like it makes sense to me that like when it was hal's ring yeah and he was uploading his consciousness and updating it i don't i don't know where this like fine print came that like as soon as john's information came i don't know where this like fine print came that like as soon as john charges the ring then the hologram will disappear so i was thinking about i was thinking about this and i guess my i don't know if this is exactly it but i think what i the way i'm um interpreting that is it's like it's not just a charge it's more when john like owns the ring bonds with he's like yeah when he says the oath and it's basically like the factory reset because it will then be his right so there's like an overwriting of the but this is also esoteric mystical so i'm like can't can't john just say like hey ring i'm about to charge you but don't delete the hal backup well like even when yeah when when sinestro was kind of when he was playing them and pushing like there was a to that point it was like wait are we are we sure because we know that john is like this precocious you sure you sure like maybe john can just still i know the bird is still there you know when john loses consciousness so cannot can't hal be there yeah if there's anyone who could do it it would be john and if there's any justice in the world kyle chandler will be in season two of lanterns as a as a hologram okay i quite agree uh how reminds john that the 2026 2026 version of him was was trying to protect yeah john but urging him to keep quiet about seeing him in rushville right john's like oh now that you're dead you're trying to protect me and how's like no didn't you listen to the house of our podcast joanna mallory were like when al said that thing in the cafe he was definitely trying to protect john and this is where like what were the last words i said to you idea kicks in here so that it can be a callback later but he's like what were the last words i said to you so later he can be like hey you're my i was blinking and out of consciousness oh my god incredible the last words i said before for posterity yeah and so then we can say i love you to each other i really love this because in just the flow of this very exchange um the oh once you're dead like it's got to kind of immediately walk back that once you're dead barb because yeah the once you're dead hologram protection is there but that reminder that og hal also protected him and he's like oh my god did john big fan um live and breathe in hell the one that they they went through all of that dark shit together he didn't want uh john to suffer harm he just didn't know how to tell him that so we're 20 minutes 30 seconds into this episode the hologram blips out and does not come back again for a while it was concerning yeah and frankly if not for the preview at the end of episode seven for this episode that made it very clear we would be getting another exchange between them i would have been even more worried okay um very worried very worried i'm calling this section noah did it kind of uh noah moved the portal yeah great moment john just charging through at full speed and then falling out his ass out of that portal onto the ground pretty great no it kicks him in the face dude he stomps on him curb not curb stomps but like boot stomps him into the face the last time that john fell through a portal in the ceiling oh i didn't get to ask tom king this but oh yeah uh i was listening to an old interview with tom king where he was talking about advice he got from a writer on a on a panel once and this writer was like hey if you're ever sitting there and you're stuck in your story you don't know what to do just have someone fall from the sky just do that just have someone fall from the sky and that's a great way to like invigorate yourself and you have to explain it blah blah and i was like is that why john falls out of the sky into that pile of mattresses in the mall i didn't get to ask tom about that but i hope that that's why um oh man so no one takes the ring off of john's boot kicked uh you know face and then i quite like do you think that's a good enough reason to murder someone asks if he's okay to drive oh yes yeah yeah that was pretty funny it's like i just kicked you and stopped you are you okay to drive but guess what john was and as we talked about in episode two was that when john got completely decimated and then was fine heals quickly can take a beating i think so we get the we get them driving we get i think a fairly cheesy overhead shot of two roads diverging in the dark and which one is it gonna be that's not my favorite moment of this episode but on our sort of like noah manhunter front i actually think one of the biggest clues that like something will happen with noah breaking bad in the final episode or something like that that is the two c's that were planted between john and noah in previous episodes right so in episode one we get the exchange that we've talked about plenty uh where noah is trying to like throw the ball john says you're aiming and noah says sorry sir ever polite don't aim just minute going through yeah try again don't force it just imagine hey what i say what i say that was great you know how'd you know that so my dad used to shoot apples off my head and then zoe walks up right um but so like that early exchange and then in episode six noah says god please let this week be over john says high expectations huh and noah says yes sir once again the only bar you need to clear john says is the one you set for yourself nobody else's matter and noah says you really believe that and john says no of course not i'm just trying to give you an easier ride than i had no it says but you're happy now though right and john lies and says absolutely yeah but so like those two exchanges led us to believe that there was going to be some moment where john was going to have to say to noah some version of this lesson which is just sort of like make your own path yeah walk your own path you don't have to no one has to tell you who you're gonna be right and so like just because your hot grandmother uh taught you a bunch of manhunter lessons doesn't mean you need to listen to those voices screaming in your head you need to listen to those voices screaming in your head to tell you to go to annapolis and you know all the rest you can imagine your own way forward and is it you you know and and the life noah lays out for himself is like married with kids you know just like having a a normal americana life that's all i want you know and it's like imagine it then make it happen right you know put that ball through that tire make that happen all state all state um that the the exchange on the porch that you just quoted uh the the only bar you need to clear one and the you're happy one um that was most of my mind in this stretch when in the youth you're still trying to figure out if i'm gonna kill you i am yeah you don't think i can overcome my programming and the tear going down noah's face like i was thinking about what we talked about last week with just john on the phone with his that certainly you know john on the phone with his brothers and like did you kill him like when you have to confront what people who know you are in your life like yeah what they what they think you're capable of um and the idea that john was trying to even before he had this clarity like grant noah that gift of of possibility and then of course with this clarity you know so many of these different moments not only the ones that they shared that you just outlined but like just moments for john across the season that come into play in this uh in this conversation in a really powerful way like um you know when he when noah says i didn't burn down house house i saw the smoke and i went in to help which which we talked about earlier and john's reply to that is well that's the opposite of your programming so you're not a prisoner to it and and you know the way that he talks about programming with noah with carrie later that's not programming that's love like he wanted to protect you you know all of these moments made me think back to that john liana interview conversation in episode three that really we were very struck by at the time humans aren't programmed we're raised i do not understand the distinction well there is one and how we've come to see across the course of the season that it was that he had to reconcile with the fact that he had been right like and how just terribly sad that that has been to watch but also so affirming to see him push a a new car course forward and chart a new course for himself so like i think it was interesting that uh tom king and chris muddy on the official podcast last week were really hammering this idea of john having been programmed much like a manhunter so like really sort of drawing that that connection between john's experience and noah's experience in a way like what bernadette was sort of grooming him to be and what zoe was grooming him to be and then also like what does carrie interceding mean inside of this you know like carrie being like am i raising a monster all of that stuff you know this clear nature versus nurture kind of idea and it's almost like i was thinking about it's it almost feels to me less like nature versus nurture and more like the both sides of both of these you know because the nurture is man and hunter but it sure is and like the because so much of this is is you know we've we hear what sinestro says and what zoe says like this idea of the nature the who are you and what's in there the jordan boys legacy it's in the blood all of that but then like all the programming talk is really an indictment of nurture as well right so it's not really a season that came out on the side of nurture purely versus nature or the other or any you know um binary it's really like both of those things can be scary and both of them can be empowering and you have to really look inside of yourself to figure out where what direction the moral compass is pointing in and so that like going back to john's oath that we hear you know like i will do what's right yes you know yeah i will figure it out it's not what my mom tells me i have to be it's not what zoe tells noah he has to be it's not right you know all all of the rest it is what carrie says uh except for when she shoots hal on the head but other than that she's not going to be able to do what she seems like a really good mom i when when john is saying here to noah like you know for a long time i couldn't tell where i started and where where my programming ended and he says uh that he decided but how could i know well i've been thinking about her all season yeah the the the when he says like that's a cop out right because if i can ask myself the question then i can answer it for myself this idea that you know the progress john has made to get here not just from two thousand sixteen but from you know across his his entire life the level of reflection though that then kind of it's not just it's not just about being able to break away from the path and the programming it's to have the clarity to also work his way back to that house at the end of the episode that's that's a hard thing to be able to to do you know to explore inside with the character and with the show like that he again that gets back to what we were talking about at the beginning of the episode with like the grace and the capacity to forgive like i'm really struggling with the that comes at the end of this episode because like the moment with bernadette i think is really well done and like a lot of that comes down to jasmine see if it's jones performance you can see that yeah it's really well done but him just being like all good with his brothers and his dad after like all his agitation also what's the like what's the wrap-up on his dad's story like what's going like i'm it really feels like we're missing several beats there that was like a big we're so it really feels like there was more maybe i we tried to ask tom king about this he was not biting but like it really does feel like there was more stewart family storyline that didn't make it in but like the bernadette moment oh yeah did did work but like his brother's going from like fuck you to like we're all good is i yeah i just have some questions about it but like yeah yeah on the noah front i killed hal this was it was an interesting experience watching this for the first time because as soon as we as soon as he said i killed hal i killed hal i killed hal says it and then of course what he will say to john and the rest of this conversation about the the two parts of him what one part wants and what the other part wants is that was just wonderful um right away when he says these things like you know there's a part of me that wants to live a normal life right and then i get these ideas there in me i don't even think about them they just exist if you could see the inside of my head you never stop screaming that was an amazing stretch um not only is that last line just like a complete bar and a banger and we have to think you know the hal equivalent we were saying has anybody like done for him what carrie did when she stood up at the restaurant there's this noah equivalent of like who has he been able to say these things to no one since since his grandmother died but there's also like okay noah's off the suspect list for killing hal because as soon as they did that as soon as they had him say you checked the remaining time on the episode there was that but it was just like i think that it eliminated him as a candidate even though i still have questions again as we've talked about already of like how the carrie thing totally lands i don't think they could have noah say i want to be good i want to try to live a normal life and then actually have killed hal it would almost like disqualify john from saying to him i don't know why i feel that about noah but not about carrie in terms of the choice that john makes at the end well i like i feel like at the end of the day it just should have been billy who killed hal i think that is where i land candidly like i don't think the carrie carrie killing how totally totally meshes i don't think noah based on what we hear here would have been viable but billy could have done it billy could have done it um i i disagree on the noah front only because they have the like please like kill me and please don't let me see it coming like in terms of like i didn't i thought as soon as noah said like i did it yeah i was like well carrie did it yeah you know but like um but i do think i don't think it's like if there had only been a few minutes left i don't think it's wholly disqualifying because you can say um i want to be good i want a good life i want a good life i want a good life but i did this thing yeah yeah and and because my programming took over or whatever i did this thing and like please kill me much like my grandmother wanted to die i want to die you know what i mean for sure and then john uh i don't think john necessarily would have let him off the hook in that regard yeah i mean it is very it would have been a very dark ending if it would have been and now i'm gonna kill a teenager or feed him to earl which again until last episode we were like what if that happens but yeah i think you're right that's my number one i'm bummed this didn't happen theory i gotta say yeah i gotta say it's okay buttercup not being i was like when she shot him i'm like is he gonna say then i was like oh yeah she shot him in the head he has no time for any final words other than i love you but like it's okay buttercup i really did want but like early eating someone i really wanted to have happen so it would have been it would have been wonderful i would have liked it too i think there's like i don't know i guess it feels to me like even though it kind of is in parallel and tracks with what john is able to the forgiveness he grants carrie could have done the same for noah if no i killed him it feels to me like i don't know maybe i'm um maybe this is wrong because in this scene the show asks us you know when noah says like you think that's a good enough reason to murder someone and it's like a good example of the show's just clear direct language and like conveying an idea right just because i'm a manhunter i have to i i i you should kill me i do think it's like a little harder to accept that noah could it's just the danger ratchets up if you're like oh you actually did this you're not just like plotting going portal a portal b you killed hal harder to be like and now i'm gonna go let you live your life because it's not just a human capacity for grace and forgiveness and a second chance it's like manhunter risk level through the roof that would be i think harder for john to be like cool no that's what i'm saying i think i think john would have been like okay yeah like so that's why i was like it can't be noah because there's a version of the show where john kills a kid i know but so but but that's but i think at the end of the day the show is like similar to like what tom king was talking about in terms of mice and men it's just sort of like yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. He'll let him celebrate, and then he'll just, like, sniper shoot him. from some you know like while he's taking a tostito full of dip and then he gets shot in the head you didn't see it coming it was just enjoying that dip and delicious full of chuck over the fact certainly that could have been a direction i guess i'm saying more based on where it did actually end and that like uh the desire to pursue the the notion of forgiveness yeah then it just it was yeah so carrie but i don't know okay should have been billy carrie did it actually this is a bummer for you for everyone where are you on this i actually don't hate it i don't hate it i'm struggling a little bit with the question you asked me like four weeks ago or whenever it was of wait what is that going to do for our embrace of this idea that like hal needs to just learn to open himself up to other people well it's the right people and it's not women let's be clear because women are crazy as she says twice uh in in the opening she's like i'm a mental patient i'm crazy i'm like okay you okay sports stress you know it's real but uh open yourself up to your to your male trainees not not to women they'll shoot you in the head every time um i man i liked this scene a lot i also liked heading into it just john asks hal i need you i need you man yeah but but what i loved about him not appearing is because like previously hal's like i really only show up you actually need me yeah and so him not showing up is like you can do this yourself yes train me yes also i tiktok i only have seven minutes left on my on my and i want to i just want to hear this and i don't my presence to influence it in any way but mostly the first mostly you've got i liked this conversation a lot i liked that i really loved that performance from kelly mcdonald the like you know really great guadalajara great the shot whatever but then we get we return back to it where we have her like sort of this pained noise she made yeah this like hurt of what she's done yes um you know and john saying like why'd you ask me the one the one guy yeah you know and you know i i i kind of liked all of this even even though like you know noah being a manhunter and carrie being high on the suspect list was something we were theorizing like for several weeks it doesn't bother me and i don't think the episode was really trying to like shock shock shock no you know sometimes you can get like a reveal of something you predicted like a month previous or whatever and and the show is like isn't this crazy right and i don't really feel like that was the point of this episode um no so in that in that way it doesn't bother me at all i think a lot of the the rich thematic and emotional veins that you've been uh highlighting and tapping into uh really land for me yeah on that sort of be vulnerable up yourself up to someone front i i'm i mean i'm with you on that it is a tough mixed message there that it's i i overall really liked this sequence as well i thought both the john carrie conversation and the flashes to carrie and hal and the bleachers were like pretty gripping to watch um and i think that at the end of the day in many respects even though there's a lot that's really uh affirming and empowering and hopeful about lanterns there's also a lot that's really heavy and tragic about lanterns and so that if it's this choice and what happens and the kind of idea that just in an instant something could go so horribly wrong that all works yes i do think it's interesting though because like so the ending we get yeah as i mentioned tom king have you have we mentioned our interview with him as i mentioned this is spoilers for gossard park the gossard parkin yeah which is like uh you know a couple times in that movie it's just sort of like does does does a killer need to be brought to justice yeah if if there will be other moral consequences or if they're not really to blame for what happened or whatever mitigating circumstances you choose to interpret from gossard park one of my favorite movies of all time but what purpose could it possibly serve which is uh kelly mcdonald's character mary mckeithen's like incredible line that she's repeating from another character what purpose could it possibly serve but what's fascinating to me about this yeah is like if the idea is that this was this is what tom said if the idea is that uh carrie is trapped forever in a prison of her own guilt and despair of i got to fuck really hot kyle chandler and he was here just like doing whatever i said and i killed him and i don't get that anymore yeah and emotionally devastated uh to boot and all the rest yeah except we end with her just like joyously celebrating in slow-mo this friday night lights moment of like yay noah won the game and he's going to nebraska and i'm like that's down yeah she doesn't look particularly haunted in that sequence i'm just saying uh so the dude observation i think i like this a lot i think for john and for carrie i think the thing that makes me sad is the how part of it you know this is so deeply deeply tragic for how even the carrie fear part of it and how watching her kind of lose herself in this fit of terror fits i think with that doesn't feel like to me it undermines the lessons about embracing fear it's like the idea that carrie was like not only have i not told how or anyone else about this i haven't even talked to noah about it what the isolation of a burden of a secret and a worry can do you take the wheel yeah exactly exactly and i really loved from you know john not only his compassion for carrie and i think carrie is the one who is going to want to um you know or feel compelled to kind of do a version of of house penance and and um uh work to show contrition and and to to work through her guilt and shame i think john is like go live your life just like i'm telling noah to go live his life you know i thought that him thinking back to bernadette and bernadette's fear which we got to see that sequence where she has him walk home alone and she's sitting i've had plenty to say about but like when she has him walk home alone and and we see her yes terrified yes and but he didn't see he didn't get to see that as a child but i mean this is this is the kind of story that we love which is like the the and it and it goes back to that that letter idea inside of the inside of not not really the show but the the lyrics from the queen song which is just sort of like you won't understand this until you're an adult right like he had this idea of who his mom was and all the things that she did to him because he couldn't see those moments that she was terrified but as an adult he can understand them and empathize with them and sort of extrapolate them and and fine i keep the this one section for the musical ham hamilton and this is because it's jasmine cephas jones here but like forgiveness uh this like really important uh choral moment but like that he has that grace yes inside of him i agree with you is is is tremendously important and his ability his healing ability to forgive yes uh for us the viewer for him our protagonist is more important than the the forgiven for sure and like he has taken a stand and drawn a line and charted a new course but also found the compassion and then in finding that for bernadette he has given that gift to carrie of imparting that to her like that i thought that was really amazing and beautiful i think that the the on the carrie noah front and the you know have i raised a monster and why did you call me back here there's the like also you know the noah part the did i raise a monster element is what's centered in the conversation but of course there's also the i deserve to be found out there's a part of me that thinks i deserve to be found out you know there's some of the comps to like zoe going back to the planet or how going back to rushville like i i need to think about what i did and i want somebody to know what i did on some level but what i was really struck by was like i thought back to the we were kind of the hologram i want him to know it was me we gotta get some different some different headdresses in there um we were you know we talked in episode four about the very odd what am i supposed to tell noah moment when zoe died and now like that's that stands out in a new light of like she doesn't mother what am i supposed to tell noah who's gonna tell him he's a manhunter but then the thing here is like we're thinking no as a manhunter john's thinking no as a manhunter howell's thinking no as a manhunter though very touched that how was not like i gotta kill this kid he was like let's all go together and get out of here very sweet the skirs are thinking no as an ace quarterback that's exactly right yeah um carrie's thinking about howell's thinking no as an ace quarterback that's exactly right yeah um carrie's thinking no as an Continue to collect some dubs as a mentor. And that's what we get here. Oh, my God. Lanterns united, mostly. Okay? Uh-huh. We turn the line for Guy Gardner. Just another kick in the gold tooth for Guy Gardner. Kick in the gold dick. Guy having to see the penis spray painted on the side of the beacon was so funny. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. He's like, you take the stars, have fun. I'll take the dirt. This is where we get the title of the episode. Yes. When Guy's like, is that Hal's ring? And he goes, no, it's mine. Great delivery from Aaron Pierre. I got on that. He was just so good. there aaron moore guy you are incredible um and then guy threatens john with an army and then john threatens to expose the manhunter secret with the if they search their hearts code hysterical so i guess john knows that the guardians made the manhunters but no one else knows that i mean guy gardner doesn't john knows guy gardner doesn't need to right yeah so nobody else knows this so he's like i'll tell everyone you made the manhunters and the manhunters are evil and you're bad and i'm gonna tell the squirrel i'm gonna tell the planet living secret yeah exactly mogo yeah yeah you've got a crystal heart just go check leona's mantle you'll find the proof you need and uh and her prize her spot of pride yeah she took her little kid gloves she put it in a little pirate uh box and put on the mantle man all right john asked how what he would do oh you know what on the on the guy front like when when john said he died a hero and that's all you need to know you loved it i mean you loved it i mean it's like a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a real harry snape like one of them was the bravest man i ever knew kind of like you know the fact that you don't get to say that to the person directly uh but it was just it was really like heartening to hear i mean the moment that hal and john are about to share is bigger but like yeah here i don't know just to hear john john and hal talk so much shit about each other across the you guys would you say this is a love story i would say it was a love story and especially just the word hero carries so much weight for john it really does right so like and it was a thing that obviously hal no longer thought that he deserved beautiful moment beautiful um john asked how what he would do and this is where we get that line my gut tells me you're going to be better at this job than i ever was oh man you're ready how healing do you think we should all have the ability to talk to a hologram of our parents from 20 years ago and have them say all the things we ever wanted them to say and i think that's a really good idea i think that's a really good to say that's what hologram technology should be used for not for not for like kim kardashian's dad to show up at a kanye concert but like for us to have some therapeutic healing moments i think i'm inclined to agree yeah however not ai programmed a human has to write this was we saw tony you know working through with his parents barf it gave us mysterio it's not great so that's a risk the for the quentin backs out there it's a risk that they could become super villains because of how we use that tech though it is an appealing thing depends how cool the sunglasses are that's true edith where are you what are you up to speaking of accessories most guys can't handle jewelry you're lucky you have slim fingers like a girl man shut the fuck up this was so great don't be afraid to be afraid and then hal puts on a little bit of theater to get john to say i love you it's a ghost ending we've already referenced ghost a couple times but if you rewatch the ending of ghost uh this is missing unchained melody playing this is missing the ditto stuff this is missing all of the tears in demi moore's eyes but like otherwise it's a one-to-one match it's a perfect fit uh leaving on a i love you junior so coming back to junior like we mentioned that in in the previous episode the hologram had been saying trainee which just spelled way less patronizing than junior but for junior to come back here yeah junior which means a lot to me because of indiana jones the last year say of course but for junior to come back here without that derisive skin to it yes as a term of endearment yeah and to the best to get to enable kyle chandler to leave us on a wink oh my god what a fucking gift only to come back for season two there we go they're in a dream this and like the fact that hal og hal hal prime had switched to john you know because of the urgency of the moment i mean the the my gut tells me you're going to be better at this job than i ever was into the i love you was almost unbearable in the best possible way as like catharsis at the end of this shared journey you know to think about in episode three i don't need a fucking sidekick right episode four um you know and then in episode five of a house saying you know you're never going to replace me junior derisive right here and if you're training we hear what john said to liana in episode four right like the because i've worked my entire fucking life for it the ring's always been mine that asshole's just keeping it warm that was venom right that was all around jealousy and fear and fear and venom and this year from hal to john is love as we will hear in a moment but like then i found myself really remembering how our hal had also as we talked about a lot last week and it touched us so deeply like he had also chosen john they didn't get to experience that together but the fact that john was like he left me that key he knows what birds mean to me or that carrie got to say to him like you know big fan like halogram has gone on a journey and they have gone on a journey together of like progress and self-actualization and candor and honesty and openness in their relationship that like our original hal and john were not able to share but our original hal did have this like love for john in there too it was just obscured by all of those streaks of fear but it's also this thing the way we get in our own way yes and we talked about this last week when we were watching the hologram sort of like train john and we're like this is what it could have been if hal was not sort of calcified over with with all of his fear and um heartbreak that came from the sinestro betrayal which once again is like again was a little kind of glossed over yeah i mean i think don't be afraid to be afraid is like such a the way that fear was invoked repeatedly across the season as a taunt right are you afraid yeah the challenge are you afraid but also like you know you're fucking terrified right now right at the table etc like the fact that that can be granted there not only is a pearl of wisdom especially because of the way they joke about the oh my pearl oh interesting now you're asking me for my wisdom but like as a gift also just like he's been coach tailoring this whole time but he just like oh my coach tailored his way out out of this show you know what i mean he really again only to come back for season two dare to dream guys all right i thought the i love you was just incredible beautiful incredible beautiful a new motto a new oath yes right hero hero is the song that plays this is not my favorite needle drop we've gotten it just felt a little on the nose for me personally um john leaves maggie the money maggie talk about a storyline that didn't end up being a good one for you not very important or interesting uh we get the stewart family reunion which i've already talked about and then we get the new oath in brightest day and darkest night i'll embrace my fear i'll do what's right i choose this ring i choose this fight in service to this lantern's light i had chills listening to that and to remind people the original motto is in brightest day and blackest night no evil shall escape my sight let those who worship evils might be where my power green lanterns light right so like yeah going green lanterns light right so like yeah i'm going green lanterns light moving away from this idea of like evil because like we don't live in a binary you know what i mean and that's what like that's what so much of what john's interactions with noah and with carrie and with bernadette are about like what's in the gray and what's in the middle right you know what i mean and so um right i think all of this is is is so strong i love what tom said to us about like being chosen chosen versus making a choice i thought that was really good and then i also just think in terms of like that the guardian system led by the love of god and the liana or whatever you want to want to call it the way that the guardians have we talked about this before i think i refer to it as like a leash they have there's a leash that they have on on your power because they own the rings and they own the lanterns yeah and so for him to like find this decommissioned ring and get this spookily forged lantern but like he's got the tools of power now and they were not given to him by guardians and so just sort of like break that myth that lie that the guardians have told all of the lanterns which is like you need us because you need us for your lantern you need us for your ring and for him to just be like actually yeah um i'm gonna make my own is it's yet another way for john to take something that had been there but like reclaim it as his own you know the season long well what's the worthier path to the ring the ring choosing you are you having to work for it interview try you know all of these like the the fact that hal and john can have the i love you moment the fact that that friendship that mentor mentee relationship partnership trust was so hard won and hard earned right so like you have john taking that different path to the ring kind of in a way if you just looked at the core facts of it maps on to the whole like i didn't get chosen by it i had to go work for it and earn it but he did it on his terms right and that period just like a third a third yeah yeah and i just love that i was already kind of crying from the i was teary-eyed from the i love you but then the oath like i mean i think aaron pierre's performance was so wonderful here really good and you know you get to see him like fly for the first time and all of that was just amazing across the lantern logo in the sky yeah and like the oath itself this is the first time i've ever seen a lantern in my life this thing that like in the core everybody recites and this thing that is like a shared element for john you know yeah he's got hal's decommissioned ring and this sinestro forged worrying like he licked his lips with hunger when he thought john was about to charge the ring maybe not good is he ever gonna have is he ever gonna have a suit i wonder he's gonna show up in in the superman movie with a suit maybe i mean he did he revered he revered the suit in a way but like you know now he's making him suit I don't know. I mean, that would be wonderful. Yeah. Crossover. event that would be great um you know just like the the centering of fear inside of the oath could not have been a more perfect conclusion to to the season i really couldn't have like it's it's not it's it's fear-centered which it's all been fear-centered but that it's not a shameful thing it's not a lie you have to tell not just other people right but like yourself not a lie you have to tell yourself it's just a part of what makes you human and a part then of what can make you a hero beautiful message for john beautiful message for everybody watching it i was i was talking to a friend of mine earlier this week about sort of like i don't know personal stress or angst or whatever i was feeling and how i like didn't want anyone to to see that and she was like who are you being perfect for like who who are you being perfect for what what is the point of that and so like this idea of yeah are you are you so perfect that i can shoot an apple off your head and and and then we go get a burger after and and you know you've been programmed to be perfect your whole life but like all of the consiguous like fractures inside of you that that causes and how like deep inside of you is going to be shame right to be anything but that unflinchingly and so like i i honestly i'm not the first person to say this isn't any revelation but i do think that shame is like the most toxic you know what is shame if not fear with his hat on but like you know is the most toxic thing that exists in our in our culture and so um we're taught to feel it all the time we're taught to compare ourselves to other people we're taught to hide our vulnerabilities and i'm just saying open yourself up that's right just not to kelly mcdonald's she'll shoot you in the head but other than that it's a pretty good life mantra i think right there be vulnerable you solved it um and that's it that's the end of lanterns is there do we have anything for theory corner anything you want to say about a potential season two what do you think i mean obviously there's just like the the overall question is what will be made and when but like do you want season two if kyle chandler said i do this is not a knock on air i'm here i'm like i'm really excited for him to show up in the superman movie um i'm really excited he is like earth's green lantern i i like i love him i think he's great but the show's magic is hal and john yeah and i you know like i i don't know what kyle chandler wants to do i i don't know if they feel like it will be a storytelling cheat for them to bring hal back but like i just think there's a way to do it where we don't feel like they just undid everything hand waved away all all of the cost of this i still think the like goodbye would feel poignant and important for sure i think the braver thing to do is to not bring hal back but i think in terms of like what i want yeah i want hal and john together in season two i mean they were just magical together they really really were so i will miss it if we never get more and like you know we've always loved kyle chandler shout out the early edition heads you know what i mean like we love kyle chandler but i do think this is the first project since friday night lights that has really allowed kyle chandler to do the full magnitude of what he can do charisma wise like he is one of the most charismatic people to ever be on screen but he did a series of film roles um that i don't think really allowed him to showcase that yeah this happened to a lot of our like great prestige tv actors you know like cranston too like where they will just like go do things and you're like i know you're incredible yeah but you're not doing that right now you don't have to just be coach taylor because i don't think hal is coach taylor but it allows him to tap into this thing that no one else can do as well as he can it's truly magical and so like i want kyle chandler working forever as long as he wants to forever but i want him to be in projects that allow him to be yeah as much as he can be and this and this is that that's what i'm you know at the end of the day and so yes i want lantern season two but i do want kyle chandler in it look john himself said it hal i need you i need you man he can john can do anything and you believe it you can achieve it you know what i mean quite agree um that's what i want what do you want um i i'm in a very similar place i i would like them to keep making lanterns because i thought it was really good but this season also does feel so contained and complete and wonderful um yeah i i don't know i uh i kind of like increasingly yeah i just have to check his cv one exception game night oh sure game night iconic it's like friday night lights game night this are the three like places that i really feel like kyle chandler got to be full of kyle clearly you're not watching mayor of kingstown and bloodline but uh i watched bloodline oh don't tell me i didn't watch bloodline because i watched and i was like this is fine but it's not the best of what all of these people certainly not you know certainly not um i'm not ready to think about hell i'm not definitely not godzilla versus kong no definitely not godzilla king of the monsters definitely not first man definitely not manchester by the sea definitely not carol like i enjoyed them all those roles but there's just like a you know a lot of people like super eight i'm not a huge person but like you know zero dark 30 like he's doing a lot of these like wolf of wall street is like close yeah it's pretty close yeah but it's not this i mean this isn't this is special this is what we deserve actually we don't deserve it but i want it anyway same i think we did it yeah fun season of tv sheesh i want to i want to give you your flowers and say you have been a lanterns believer from the beginning and i was a lantern skeptic and i love to be led by you you know we all won because lanterns was good lanterns was good we did all win and what if vision quest is also really good that would be fantastic i believe it will be i believe it will be i'm not expecting vision quest to like you know deliver the profundity that is available here in lanterns well i don't know some yeah but like in a more candy colored sort of marvel kind of way you know what i mean so like i'm not expecting that vision quest is going to be like sort of on par with what lanterns can be but for what it is oh yes you know in wandavision like absolutely we loved it crushed me let's talk about it next week shall we i can't fucking wait okay who are we thinking today we're thinking about the oh boy carlos charboga back from vacation hitting the ground running thank you to scott lee number one lanterns fan but scott loves lanterns loves he loves lanterns uh jacob cornett legend arjuna ramkapal king show me a dinner on prince among men tom king did we mention we talked about oh man mallory rubin joanna robinson you know the folks at ralph lauren double rl who made that jacket that hal wore incredible i've been keeping an eye it came back in stock in navy and it immediately sold out again devastating i bought a pair of ralph lauren plaid pants for my christmas london trip incredible i just got really excited about it i just felt like that was like the one of the christmasier things i support you fully i it's i've been buying a lot of ralph lauren it's pretty it's it's addicting good luck i did get this on poshmark at a deep discount but we'll see we'll see what happens to me in the future i love poshmark personally i'm a discount kind of person all right thank you to everyone we'll see you soon bye you