‘Lanterns’ Episode 5 Instant Reactions | Midnight Boys

Welcome into the ringerverse. This is of course the ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. We are Steve the architect all in the builder and tinker of things. Tell me the explainer a dinner on you got questions he's got answers old man van he of the receding resurgence and hairline and sitting in today Chris C R Ryan the prince of the ringer together we are known as other midnight boys I'll be right back after this. Chris that was a good pew pew thanks brother I was wondering I was wondering if you're going to get involved if I was going to do anything look I'm a I'm glad it's the Nexus of fandom because I'm a fan of you guys why I am curious why I got drafted to fill in for Chuck this week you guys want to answer the first name on the board yeah 100% I mean you know what's happening at the company right you know it's okay all right so follow the socials that's the pit out for spot on insta and tiktok at ringerverse on insta twitter facebook and tiktok johnny actually got you brought that up because it's a really important conversation that we've been having on this pod for a minute van came out and said that he deserves to be third chair on the big picture and you all right both people would claim that you are the leader in the clubhouse then it's Tracy Letz and van is in the mix somewhere fans in the mix would you respond to his his claim I think sooner or later the third chairs need to talk about whether there's like a different stage for us to be on you know why are we why are we putting all of our effort into being the third chair somebody else's pod I like this why are we maybe teasing three three chairs yeah you know what I mean like you me Tracy the chair yeah our whole pot yeah and then we we actually go at the people are looking for a replacement for come town they've been talking about it we do that I say we do it even more direct I say they drop a conversation about the movie and then we drop one two hours exactly yeah just I'm right yeah that's right a lot of subliminals in there it's like oh you know there's another podcast that called the end of in game blue bar for you're not going to get that all the big picture is a big tent yeah I think there's room for everybody to hang out and talk about movies I'll tell you something here's a deal this is what I like to bond it that was just my James Talleriko I just came back there like wow what I like to bond it is that you challenge the establishment yes you challenge the establishment but you also challenge the establishment because you got to get off the Tracy Tracy challenge the establishment yeah yeah yeah all right we're on youtube like comment subscribe share you can watch every midnight boys and house of art episode on youtube dot com backslash at ring a verse and also on Spotify programmer in my dash a Monday house of art continues there's no their lanterns coverage land just being very good to us to get the keeps on giving over here on the ring verse love you experience this on the watch as well yes if anything I think we have undercovered lanterns a couple of times there have been other shows or events that have forced us to be like we have 10 15 minutes for an episode yeah I'll tell you the truth though I feel like I'm coming at lanterns from a little bit of a deficit when it comes to my knowledge my ball knowledge I'm not a DC guy right like I'm a more of like a marvel dude if I'm anything and so my relationship to the show is kind of in in the tenant zone where it's just like don't overthink and just feel it you know yeah it's my guy it's what I mean the show makes no fucking sensitive well I'm actually quite happy to be here today because this episode in particular I found very moving and somewhat confusing oh great we'll get into that entire thing uh okay you know what before we get into that well just on that on that note this show even the DC stuff might be a little out of your depth but as far as like the show show of it this is the r-coding oh yeah it's Chris Mundy who did Ozark yeah the very first scene of this episode felt very Ozark Damon Lindloff did watch men left overs lost oh yeah and Tom King who I know is a like a great comics writer so it's not it's all all that it is also true detective with a fucking super ring so I get it like it it's awesome in that regard do you think that a lot of people who aren't into comics is that why the show you feel like it's reverberating so much because people can enter the show you don't have to give a fuck about the Greenland yeah I think you can be it is one of the few things I've seen to achieve that like equilibrium of like it will satisfy people who have been reading DC for decades it will satisfy people who are like what is on Sunday night I HBO yeah let's hold that because I got something to say I have a bowl proclamation make bowl proclamation proclamation make later on okay on Friday but matchgives their reactions to resident evil the movie the resident evil movie which got beyond with you guys was such a gigantic announcement and I feel like it's kind of flying under the radar since everything said I know that this movie is coming out like a couple weeks right yeah next week right I kind of feel like we raised here this is a big fucking deal yeah busy it's been a crazy summer yeah I know crazy summer but like this this was like announced late and like nobody's really seen it or like there's been no real word of mouth I think about it I the word of mouth is very good it would have to be it has been almost no way he can miss but it's interesting that they're doing the resident evil title as if it's your standard horror movie that gets released wide but then sneaks up on everyone because of what happened so good they didn't like lean into the oh there's a video game movie interesting well I mean because like it's it is a video game movie right is this based on red is evil but it's not like Leon like there's not like it's not based off like the game game itself or like the characters from the game show so it's kind of a little it's a little different in that regard and also an update on rigger quest Steve yes first of all thank you all to all who watched and enjoyed the latest episodes it was a privilege to get to do it again and we're very very excited to do more so we had to come out in sequences of a week or so and we're going to be shooting a little bit more at the end of the year and we're going to be having some more come out this year so look forward to that D&D on your mother fucking ass bitch on today's episode we react to the fifth episode of lanterns the fifth episode which I think is gonna let you guys know some masterpiece fucking loved it all right but we're going to be spoiling the show spoiling everything that happened in this show everything that happened in past shows we're also going to be spoiling stuff that is happening in the comic books all kinds of different stuff spoiling lanterns green lanterns fucking Ryan Reynolds whatever the fuck you guys want we're gonna spoil it all Steve we're getting ready to talk about lanterns you're listening to a reaction podcast the spoilers are coming all right to begin our reactions guys this is about to be a fucking adventure to begin our reactions because Charles is not here Charles our fucking leader is not here charles uh we once again bring you the midnight manifests which is gonna tell you all you need to know or you're gonna get all of it I will try let's join me explainer it's gonna explain this show to you join me take it away all right this is lanterns episode five directed by Greta van Vessant Patel and written by Justin Britt Gibson we start in 2007 okay carries car breaks down a rush for while she's on the run and when the Gotham goons catch up to her Zoe changes her saves her life in exchange for loyalty we'll get back to that later fast forward to 2016 howtos john that he crashed the car in order to get him off the board you know within making a snitch and everything how then meets with the with Anton and the aliens for us oh two and convinces them that the man hunter is making so he can apprehend so by himself speaking as though she lets john get blown up and explains her plan while offering a similar deal that she offered to carry in 2007 she hills john's wounds and then puts her plan in motion so starts blowing up rush fields to lure out how and deplete his ring while john escapes the hospital she's making us the distraction but Anton sees right through him and kills him how gets a cornered but she escapes how goes back to the motel where john is waiting for him as they're dogging it out so blows up the motel with another one of her suborbital lasers when the dust settle she finds howling in the rubble but where's john he's pressed up at the sniper's nest and one shot so with tears in his eyes he goes back to take the evidence of her death with the heart and confirmation that she is a man hunter takes the ring and the lantern from how goes and goes to meet the guardian but instead of taking the oath and becoming the green lantern john leaves the ring with the guardian and walks out and that's your man i manifest for episode five i'm gonna say yes to that i'm gonna say yes to that zozo he doesn't matter that doesn't does it doesn't i'm gonna say yes to this we're gonna start no charles but you know no char ay no you fucking held it down no no no no no no no no no hold it down no self-deprecation you explain the shit out of that john i do what i'm doing you say all right we're gonna start to show it a different way this time let's go to cr's casual corner okay said that you were confused that's why i just wore sweatshirt today i was like let's keep it cash what were you confused about this episode i think i was a little bit confused about the sacrificing of the town by both john and zoey so john is essentially looking or sorry not john how and zoey how and zoey how is looking at this as his opportunity to save his own job i think i understand that right so he is like i am going to misdirect and i'm going to misdirect John, John, and then I get the prize, which is bringing the last manhunter back to the Guardian's lifetime contract, Shohei Otoni, right? Yeah. Zoe, who has essentially developed a tender loving cult among the people of Nebraska here, because she has gone around saving people's lives in various ways, then sacrifices all these people to deplete John's ring, like you said, so that she can, what? So like, what's the end game for her? So I had this same, this same question, and I actually had to ask, Collega, this. So she knows that they're eventually coming for her. She knows that they're eventually coming for her. Right. And so she's been training these people. She's been training these people for this. This, she believes if she can destroy the, the, if she can defeat this Green Lantern and destroy this alien foe, she believes that this will get her safety in some kind of way. That after this, there'll be either a new Green Lantern, because she also makes the deal with John Stewart and that he won't hunt her anymore, because he'll be under the same deal that the rest of the town is under, or that she'll make such a mess that the aliens there will come in for her, will leave her alone. So I think her thing is to end it now. Now, I don't know, and this is an interesting part of it. I don't know. And you guys can check my work on that. I don't know how she would have known that when the Guardians eventually sent the lanterns at her, that there would be the opportunity to corrupt or swing a younger Lantern that would then replace the older Lantern and give her a way out of that. That's the only thing that I, because a plan to beat the Lanterns and never have them come back would either have to like, you'd either have to kill all the Lanterns or you'd have to kill the Earth Lantern or you'd have to know that there was some deal, or maybe she was going to use how, right? She was going to get how, give how that seemed. Well, if I recall correctly, nobody knew that she was on earth. There wasn't until the aliens started dying and episode one at the football game that we were like, okay, that how realize like there's a man hunter, those were Anton's guys. These alien race, and we do find out also, and we can, we can just, we do find out that Anton and Zoe had children together. Well, Anton was, Zoe's a man hunter, Anton was one of the first people that she gave this deal to. Yeah. Yeah. And then obviously did to them what she did to the people. Exactly. Same thing. I think her manipulating John was just a stroke of genius in the moment, which is something like boom. I can do this. Remember, Anton says, part of the man hunter's thing is to go and lay with, yeah, with like the most powerful person in order to like, you know, assume power. And so when he's like, making is the bad guy and he's like, so you're saying that you were sleeping with, with making. Yeah. Yeah. That was in the blind line from how being like, you know, you've been all over the galaxy. It's about it. It's about it's about it. Opportunity. Yeah. Definitely right there. Oh. Oh, okay. That's like my guy. That's where it woke for you. You see some shit you never even thought of before up there. All right. Let's start back at the beginning then, because I think a lot of people had that question, by the way. She's like blowing up the whole time. I'm like, what the fuck is she blowing up the whole town for? And she's blowing up the whole town to deplete the ring. But also these people just like making knew that this, this number was getting called Yeah. Like theoretically, I guess the other thing I don't know, is there any limits to a manhunter's power? Does it have to be within the realm of like the town that they've colonized the plant? Like could she have just gone to like Omaha and started blowing stuff up and they're like, how's going to have to come here because his oath is to save people or to protect people? I think they've kind of laid the groundwork of that because like it's also to kind of like constrict the actual like scale of the show to make the manhunter's be like, they have to start from like the smallest and most like desolate parts of a society in order for it to grow. Sure. Which is a good metaphor. And that was her outsider. Exactly. But you also want to maintain some kind of control, right? If you're doing an Omaha, then the FBI. No, no, I'm not saying she should brainwash the people of Omaha or or or have them all signed this contract. No, no, no. I'm saying she could have had this destruction could have happened anywhere. You could use the subordinal. I know. But my point is if you go and you do it in Los Angeles or if you go and you do it in some gigantic place, then the team comes for you. It's going to be crazy. This is something she can relatic she can relatively control. Yeah. Like she can she can know and she had all the group Goldberg machines like with the water tower. Of course. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So let's start at the beginning. This was very Ozark. The DNA of this scene was all over Ozarks DNA chassis is all in this thing. We have Carrie escaping Gotham and we see in that her files, Dean bargain almost not files. Dean though. It's files doesn't really save you. Right. That doesn't really save you. But in that, I thought this was this thing was changed for two reasons. Number one, just a little bit of a narrative easter egg to our Gotham. The fact that this is where the fucking criminal is a place that you will run away from. Yeah. It's a place that you would put yourself in this whatever this wit pro type of situation she was looking for. It's a personal wit pro and that she looked like she really wanted to leave it behind. So it's very important for world buildings, good world building scene. Yes. Also, also a scene to where it both built entry and answered some questions because in the episode before we were wondering if Zoe was really the manhunter and they go right away. She's really the manhunter, but that doesn't end the mysteries of the questions. No. And then that it propels the episode forward. Right. And I think we can get into our like manhunter projections later on. But like, to me, I think that the manhunter mystery is still relatively unsolved as to what we have another timeline now. The most soft. The most soft thing that we've ever been. I agree with Steve. You guys are not serious. No, I am serious. We have a whole nother who killed Hal Jordan. Why is the ring gone? What? There's a question. We'll get to it later. I think we know who manhunter is. Yeah. But we don't know what else left. I agree with Steve. I think there could be a second manhunter, right, it's not I'm not saying it's not above the realm of possibility, but I am saying that it would be it'd be a stretch because it says in episode, it was just me. I was the only one that survived, but it blew everybody else except for me. I'm the last one. And then we see her die. And so I mean, you could I think the real thing is y'all keep thinking the boy is the manhunter, the all state of our city quarterback leave that boy alone. You just want to throw touchdowns, man, you don't want to be killed in the past. You don't think that was the last manhunter, but I think the bigger reveal was that the manhunter was a guardian's creation, that the manhunter and that the guardians were like, we we basically started this whole thing. We tried to flip a switch to turn it off. And this is we've made mistakes. So like, is there going to be any accountability for them, right? Like, or are they such supreme and superior beings? I actually don't know the answer to this question that they're outside of justice. Like, do you know what I'm saying? I do. Now, from comments, Canon, that wasn't a review that the guardians created the manhunter. That's right. No, that's no. So from comments, Canon, that wasn't a review. I don't want to jump too far ahead because I want to talk about this, but I have to. I'm sorry. There's something that is said in the show, when Carrie says, uh, I owe her. She gave me a gift. I think people think that she's talking about the freedom after she ran away from the guys and got them. I don't think that's what she's talking about. I think she's talking about her son, a miracle. Yeah. She says she gave me something. She gave me a miracle. I don't think that she's talking about the freedom of the run. I think she's talking about her son. I think that's definitely like, I would not, I would not bet against that. Right. Yeah. And I don't know, but what I'm, I did like the fact, first of all, it's just really good writing when you're like, this entire show has been about taking the ring off of somebody's finger. Where do you open this episode with Carrie's finger? You know what I mean? Yeah. They just, these are guys and Justin Brick Gibson work with Damon on the Ray movie that never went for Star Wars. She is like an accomplished screenwriter like he, he's very good. The guys in the top of the room are very good. They're just going to sprinkle this show with stuff. It's a faint. It's a misdirect to Steve's point when he was talking about like, what do we have to find out next and like how much we all the remaining mysteries? One of the things that's a hallmark and flindle off stuff is like, the thing you think is going to be in the finale or two seasons from now. I'm going to handle that in the third, third episode. Yeah. This could have easily, this is the finale of a show that was only about Nebraska. But now we have three more episodes to figure out a whole nother, we got a whole nother shows with the stuff. The thing about the show is we all thought it was the origin story of a Green Lantern. It's not about that. It's really not about that. And lindeloft does this every time. Every time I think I know what the show is about, the show is not about that. Did I expect for John to at some point reject the Green Lantern Corps as it exists? Right now? Certainly. I expected that. But what I did not expect was the death of Zoe in this episode, the death of the man, Hunter. I didn't expect them to take characters off the board and then leave more story on the board. Yeah. With, uh, was it three episodes? Yeah. You think this is, this is like an ultimate episode, right? Maybe it would finale. If you do this in episode five, we still got so much game left to figure out like if there is a second man. They got eight of these, right? Yeah. Yeah. like obviously John said I'm not taking the ring. So then how the guy get it, you know, and how does he fit into the story? There's so much stuff on the table and I can't wait to see what happens. - Okay, so let's go back a little bit. So we come out of that and we're back with Hal and John. Hal is almost getting in this show a little bit drowned. His character's almost getting a little bit drowned and overshadowed. We still, he still has some tricks up his sleeve. The trick that he pulls with Anton with, I don't think Anton ever really believed him. I just think he had to go check it out. But it feels like right now, Hal Jordan is completely overwhelmed by the depth and the scope of what's happening in Rushville. - I don't think he's overwhelmed, but I do think I was disappointed in Hal. I'm not gonna lie to you. Because we saw, we saw what happened episode four and Sinecht shows like here's what you do. You make the kid look silly. You take, you kill the man, how do you come back to Orra, you're a hero. And I'm like, man, how about it, man? How smart are they, man? How do I go for that? - His mission is superficial. So it's gonna feel like he is starting to feel like a hollow character. Because he's not-- - There's no meaning to it. - He's trying, not trying to act out his oath, he's trying to act out. I need to have job security. That's the most important thing. And so people are getting vaporized. There are bombs going off. There, you know, all this stuff is happening. I've got this kid who's training with me. I'm basically like, gasulating him into like, you know, God knows what and what he's doing is only trying to keep that ring. - But that makes it interesting to me that he lied to Anton. He lied to him. He knew that Zoe was the manhunter. He could have given Zoe up. He could have made an actual deal. He could have made an actual deal to turn over the actual manhunter that would probably fuck John too. 'Cause that motherfucker's laying there at that point, or at some point right after that, would no skin on his body. Burning John Stewart alive in this show is so interesting that they burned him in a lot. He went through a lot. So I'm still wondering, because you're right, how's mission is shallow, but John's is too. - They're both trying to satisfy a personal goal when their whole deal should be for a collective greater. - Trying to save somebody. - Yeah, 'cause John on a quest of personal agency, like it was projected from the beginning, because to deprogram himself from the training that his parents put him through, and to choose himself over something that is obviously a thing that's been indoctrinated into him since his birth pretty much, versus Hal, who is now trying to fight for job security, but also prove to himself that he could still be Green Lantern. There's a personal aspect of this, where it's like, he's probably thinking right now, this wouldn't even have been this fucked up if John wasn't here in the first. - I don't think he thinks in any way that he's not up to the job. - I think he overly believes that he could still get it done. - Do you think she's the only one who could get it done? - Yeah, I think, yeah, I think he believes that part of his belief, part of the reason why he is who he is, is 'cause he thinks he's the only guy who can do it. When he hits him, and he says you don't deserve that ring, what was his response? Don't deserve, it chose me. - Yeah. - Like he's like, don't deserve. Like, how could you say, it's not about deserve. It don't matter. That's like somebody walking up to you and being like, your wife, you don't deserve your wife. Dog, I asked, she said yes. So I don't know what to tell you, bro. I mean, you might think you better at it, but take your shot. It's like, it chose me. And you literally have to rip the ring off of his finger. Why do you guys think he will hide to Anton? - Be comfort to get the credit. He likes to Anton, so he could keep him distracted, have him and making be off the board. It's kind of how he did John. Crashers, he puts John out of commission. If Anton is chasing, making it in vice versa, that means whenever he's setting a spot, so nobody will be there. He can stamp, so he'll do that. Zo, Zoey, who cares? - I just want you to say it right, dog. - I don't care. - You don't care about her. - You don't care about her name. - I don't care. - Oh, so you don't care about her name? - I don't care. - So she has a name, she's down to her stuff. - You don't care about it. - I don't care about it. - New drop, my name is Jomi. - My head, I hate women. - She's like it. - She, she, by the way, you know how this is worse? This is worse because she chose her name. It'll be one thing if her parents gave her name. And it's one thing, but this is like saying, it's like calling her cash is clean. - Tough. - You cash is clean and she's out of it. - Tough. - The thing she chose, amazing monologue with her in the hospital while she's putting back to the other John about like, how my disadvantage is the biggest advantage. Like, what did you think of that? No? - No. - Yeah, that didn't bring through, I liked that scene. - You didn't like that? - I liked the scene. Conceptually. - I liked the scene. I loved this show. I liked that scene. It wasn't my favorite monologue at this season. - How so? - Just 'cause, okay. That seemed like nothing else in the show has, but that seemed like a scene from the studio. - Really? - To me, studio. - That seemed like, okay, we have to make this, that seemed like reaching your hand out. It sounded like it was a little, it was a little pandery to me. I'm just like, to meet personally. - I loved that scene. - Like, we get the job done type of stuff, or is it kind of like, you know, we know that y'all are good people. And I've said this before, sometimes just do the show. - Sure. - Like, and there's, you can't, I feel ikky saying this, 'cause you can't have too much of it. You can't have too much of a reminder that there are people in these rooms that are writing shows. - You also have to think about, like, how many 10 million people watch this show? - Right. - They're not all gonna have, like, the reps that you do with storytelling, but the sophistication you might have with, like, identity, politics, and everything else. - Yeah, yeah. - Like, they'll probably be like, damn, that is a good point. - Powerful. - Yeah. - Like, they're probably like, powerful. She's spitting right now, but for me, personally, it was like, you know, whatever. I do like the idea. - It was a hat on a hat. Like, you see those two people, there's like the incredibly striking image of this black man who's had his skin burned off, and his begging this person, do not make me lighter. Like, it is like a pretty stark striking scene. And like, there's like cool storytelling moments, and then on top of that, they're like, let me tell you why I had to be an outsider in the first place. - But by the way, the rationale makes sense. - That's why it's not like, because every, as long as something works in story. - Right. - I'm not gonna mind it. - Yeah. - So the rationale in story makes sense. - And I think this spoke to like what I was kind of thinking about when like the Guardians couldn't perceive of like race or racism and how human street race. And it was purely like, this is how an alien would talk about a society who uses race in a certain way. - I think it's the thing people bump on, or I know I have found myself bumping on, I think she's an amazing actress, poor no, jagged even, but like I thought it was like, it worked at the end with her sacrifice of herself or her like essentially like basically like, saying like I lost, you know, at the end, when she takes the bullet. But in scenes like that, the diner scene, the skin replacement surgery scene, the hospital scene, I was like, I want this character to emote more. Like I want this to feel like a more of an emotional passionate moment, even though I know that I'm watching a robot, alien, super killer, negotiator way to survival. - I have to say two things. One is that it's interesting that the Guardians have no concept of race, or at least they're fainting like they do. And the man hunters are all too familiar with this. So the Guardians creation that has had to live amongst different people and has not been able to sit on high and judge and pick and choose, understand just the intricacies of what it means to be a person in skin. That in a way is another thing that humanized the drama happened in Rushville. And to me, push the Guardians further away into isolation. There's something else I have to say that I have to say that I noticed here. Say that twice. - We know that Zoe, as the man hunter, - Zoe. - Zoe has had three lovers. - Anton. - Anton, making and John Stewart. Two, she lets get killed. One, she lets kill her. That tells me, I know who killed the pussy. - Okay. - Jesus. - That was something I wanted to climb up the mountain. - We took a long walk. - I really thought you were going to say something. - Making. - Making. - What's not throwing it down? - Dead. Anton. - Yeah, right. One of them, she turned around and said, "I want you to hit you." - Yeah. - And then he had to jump down the air. - One of the more important. - Right on the forehead. - She was right in the forehead. - Can I ask though, when she's like, okay, Carrie, I cut your finger off. You swear allegiance to me. Now, let's go grow you a new finger, right? Now, I don't know whether that is like, her lasers or whatever. But the one thing that was distinctive about what we saw between her interaction with John and his recovery, is that she squirts a little bit of blood into your heart. - I do not know if every single person who is recovering from cancer, escapes their snitch dead dad. in Gotham, whatever else she did for other people in that town. Do they all get the blood transfusion? Is there some sort of transference between, I mean, John, like a 100 DNA, or I mean, or tech in his bloodstream now, right? His skin was grown by the technology of the man, so I would imagine so then, right? If that's, yeah. There's a lot process. Well, I thought that the skin was repaired by her special lasers that also go around efficiently butchering cows. I see, here's a thing though, it would make sense, I think they would make sense if all of them had had that, because that type of thing would make them feel fondant to her. It's a blood O. Yes. That he immediately breaks by killing her, unless that is what she wanted, because she knew that her spirit, what have you, would live on in him, or that, or there's somebody else that she is trying to protect, that there's something else, because when she's talking to the son, I'm not letting go of my son theory. I don't just talk to the son. If you spend way too much time on that kid, on archmaning, you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, another sports center segment on this one. She looks at the son and she says, everything I told you, been preparing him, for whatever is about to happen. So there's some. Again, good writing, echoing John and his parents. Absolutely. Yes. Everything seems to have been put forth and set for him, and then there's something, another character. Jason Ritter's character. Filarious. Why was he, why did he flip out like that? He flipped out, he really wanted to get busy, right, then they would not let him get busy at all. Yeah. So he was really, really going for it, really was animated to get out there and do something. He had to do something. I think they got a man-hundreds, no-rows arc situation. Okay, give it up. Like, they have like the designated survivors of, if this town goes to shit, we have to siphon off like a couple of survivors. He's right. You're right. He's right. Yeah. There's no fucking way, Zoe, who had a laser beam blow up her own truck and then in the next episode or two episodes from then is just like, I'm good, you know, took a sniper shot. Yeah. She may have been like, checkmate, you got me, I thought you were going to be in the rubble with Hal, but instead, you're like some far distance away already, but the way she acquiesces to that situation leads me to believe that you guys are correct, that there is another. They expect one of us is the wreckage problem. You know what I was going to love that scene, you know, because like, let's say that Bane tells me that I'm going to be like, okay, cool. Is there, are we going to draw straws? Like, are we going to flip a coin? Like, it's like, I'm just surprised they didn't have that. I'm going to talk before they just know because he might not did it. Right. That's what Bane's fucking up. That guy just went, okay, cool. I'll die now. Now I did was horny the fire, the fire rises, the fire, the fire rises. I would have been like, okay, cool. Like, what are we going to do? We can put this. Let's put this nigga in the wreckage. Like, there's a cold guy's already dead. Anyway, whatever. I never, every time I say that. That is true. A couple guys were already dead. Yeah, a couple. It did not have to be me. Yeah. A couple guys already dead. Like, put them in the wreckage. All right. So, shallow hell, shallow hell, chipped off his ring to do the century mode. I know what that's about. I don't know what that's about. Well, because so I'm guessing like when you chip it off, it kind of just flies around because it's like a projection. It's still a construct of the ring. But like, it has the ability to like fly or how can like concentrate it to fly around the town. When they popped up at the beginning of the, at the beginning of the season, so we didn't do that. No, but it came out of the ring itself. Right. Exactly. So, I mean, I think his character is really interesting because number one, I'm almost certain that he's not dead. That's his century. Yeah. Yeah. I'm almost certain that he's not dead, like, or that the manhunter has taken form and it is him. But if that were the case, if what, because the kid would be grown up by now, but the kid is playing high school football, he asked about it. Yeah. John asked about it. Yeah. Well, he can't do both. He may be. He said he's all stay. So you know, he probably a manhunter out there, a fucking manhunter up on the fucking, for the goddamn Huskers. He's out there. He'll ride over. He'd out. No one told us. We couldn't have him. A manhunter. No one said in a room. Yeah. You show me. We're here at LSU. We're going to put the best people on the field. A lot of aliens. A lot of aliens. A lot of aliens. Don't want us to have manhunter. That's actually, he raised a good point, like in the NIL era, right in the future, like, no cause back in the day, he's going to Nebraska. Yes. He's a Cornell school. Tom Osborne, E. Sign Sealed and delivered. It's not even close. He's running in a different blockchain. This new era. Matt Lulu has dedicated himself to keeping what three hats are on his desk and where he picks it up. Text for saying them for sure. Text for saying they got the bag. They got money up there. I feel like he, he also feels like a little bit of like a USC heritage, QB and like Lincoln Riley's like visualized it, man, you know, like you can see it. Yeah. Yeah. The Matt Liner. This is a manhunter. It may be Miami. Miami. Oh, maybe Miami. Like, maybe go down. I could see more last year of caught, like, fifth year. Fifth year. I guess my question is, if he goes to the team and he's, you know, a manhunter, does he have to fuck the coach? Because the coach is the most powerful part of that, you know, that problem. Oh, you can't. Yeah. You can't. You can't. That's probably. He's probably playing. They're different. Oh, for the athletic department. You go to the team. This was our most action packed episode. Easily. Yeah. Yes. A lot of lanterns. A lot of lanterns. A lot of lanterns. A lot of lanterns. A lot of lanterns. You were complaining about it. We got great shit. Because, I mean, obviously it's not a hard and fast roll. I don't think you lose your ring the second you express any fear. It's a job interview question that they basically ask you. He was scared of that fucking call. He was scared of that. Yeah. He was like, yo, what the fuck is she doing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he seemed annoyed. But when that beam first went off, I think he, I think he met some fear in that out there on that battlefield. But did you guys get that or like, did you know about like fear per se, but he was scared when he was in the car getting ready to burn? Oh, you talking about John or, oh, you talking about John or how? I'm talking about how. I was like, yo, I don't want to, he was definitely scared. But how I think how is more like, he can't believe that she's doing this to her own people. Yes. He's like, yo, she would go this far for this. And so for John, John was absolutely, are you kidding me, bro? Yeah. You sitting there, you can't get out. You, like, it's starting to land on fire. You see in his eyes, we talk about, you mentioned this last week, Ampere and how like he's able to emote with his face and his eyes in that moment for the whole thing blows up. You can see like, yo, this is somebody who like as much as we've seen him be built for like all this going, sitting there for nine months, waiting for the guy, whatever, this whole thing. This one right here, death is still scary man. Yeah. There's going to be a pair of you for that. Damn. I also, I, that's true. I think that their action, I want to give back the action sequences. John specifically was going through a real like neo arc for me on this one, burned, resurrected, comes back, you even say more powerful because he's, you know, pretty much whipsed Hal's ass in that hotel room, even though Hal saves him from the laser beam, then has the foresight to go trap Zoe. But the end of the episode is like, I've now transcended this idea of like what you guys wanted me to be. My parents, the guardian puts the ring down and is like, and here's your fucking crystal heart that you want to back so badly. It feels like they are setting him up to be like a reform, an agent of revolution or reform. Like, you know what I mean? Like he is like the true job interview, the true test was for me to understand the actual what does this oath that we take mean thing. Do you know what I noticed? He never put shoes on. Yep. This entire time that he's going through all of that, he's literally walking across broken glass, rubble, dead bodies, dead bodies, the entire thing. Brian Winhorse. Why is that? Why would he do that? He walks in there. He walks to his barefoot, Jesus, actually, Brian Tendell's play, he's going a lot more walking through the same. So he walks across broken glass, he walks back to the store, grabs the same gun that he didn't need before. Yeah. But he needs it now. He needs it now. He needs it now. He's already paid for the gun. He's already invested into that. All it is is investment. This is ROI for John Stewart, everything. The gun, he already invested into it. The fight with how Jordan already invested into it. The parents already invested into it. Joey, the guardian of the Zoe, see, Zoe, Zoe, the guardians, all of this stuff for him is stuff he's already laid the groundwork for. He knows it now and he knows it enough to say, nope, yep. And when he gave the heart to the guardians, what did he say? It was like your pain and consequence. What was the line of camera? Yeah. Yeah. We can't evade. like we can't evade our consequences. - No, no, no, no. - He goes, what is this? That's your, like, your sin and consequences. - Your sin and consequences. - Sins and consequences. She thinks it's a trophy, but it's a resignation letter. - Oh, yeah. - Right? It's just a phenomenal scene at the end. - And she has the temerity, just be like, everybody makes mistakes. - Right. - I'm like, it seems like the whole point of being the guardian is to throw a perfect game, right? - Right. - It's like, that's the image you project out, you know, when you're going around deciding who's worthy of having this job or that job. - Yeah. - So then how are you, how are you not flawless? I mean, the religious, the religious illusions, the religious iconography of the show is just kind of, powerful in this episode. - I just, I keep thinking back to like, to know that this is, this is where we leave this. And now we have 2026. And all of the things that we need to now either address or figure out for John, because if the end game here is John is a Green Lantern. And we have 10 years of him not being one. And we have kind of the entirety of his life being fine with not being one. What gets us there in three episodes? - Well, it gets us where John doesn't want to be a Green Lantern. - Where John actually gets to be a Green Lantern. - I would imagine the end of this season. - Imagine it's how dying. - Either it's how dying, or either it's how dying, or we don't get there in the season. - What would we have? - Because we have got to get there in the season, 'cause he's gonna be in- - They don't make TV like that anymore. - They might not. - But they don't. - This whole sort of Dracula thing. Or maybe he becomes Green Lantern in minutes tomorrow. I don't know. That wouldn't make very much sense. - That's right. - But, I mean, but remember now, a lot of things have to happen in the Green Lantern structure. - Yes. - 'Cause we've already been introduced to Green Lantern. - In, in, in, in, yeah, we got, I got it. - Yeah, I got it. - So for there to be another Green Lantern. - But is Guy Earth's Green Lantern, is he? - Yes. - Oh, so he's Earth's Green Lantern? - No, he is Earth's Green Lantern. - Yeah, 62814 is Green Lantern. - Now in Green Lantern lore, you actually get to a point where they decide they need more than one Green Lantern. - Sure. - Yeah, they're giving it around. - They're giving it around. - Yeah, none of me. - But, I don't know if we're there yet, or if Guy Garner dies in this show, or if he dies in minutes tomorrow. - I just, I can never see Nathan Philly and I don't think that James Gunn executive produced this product. - Yeah, no, they're using him every time they get. - I don't think that. - Did he die in the suicide scene? - He may have, but I just mean in general, like, yeah. It feels like these two dudes have been waiting 25 years to get this shot. They're not gonna be like, guess what, you died episode six of fucking Green Lantern, yeah. - One scene I definitely want to talk about. Makin and Anton. - Awesome. - So sick. - Say more. - It's because they begin that conversation in an alien tongue. And it gets like, rather like, it's as if they already, they walk into the room and they know each other seemingly. And both of them know what the score is. And it's just a guy, like it feels like a finale of a Vince Gillian show where like the guy who knows he's gonna die and knows that all of these consequences are coming to him. And what do you have to say for yourself? Is basically what the scene is like trying to do. And it's about like, she gave us everything that we wanted. We couldn't conceive. And I'm here to die for everything that I believe in. And this is, and he's like, I'm here to kill you to make sure that I know that it's right. - And maybe you guys are right about the man hunter and the kid because I think the most important thing that happens in that space is at the end where he's like, you answered all the questions correct. You did everything you were supposed to do. But the one thing that betrayed you is your willingness to die. - The same thing that happened to her. - And apparently, like man hunters, like they will do whatever it takes to survive. - They're all about survival, yeah. - They're all about survival. So if you were willing to die, that means either you're the protector of them or you got nothing else to lose, right? And making at that point was protecting Zoe. - Yep. - So Zoe was willing to die in as she was protecting Zoe. - Maybe she was protecting somebody else. - Exactly. - That's exactly right. - So this idea you lied and he said we couldn't conceive. - Well, when he said, when he said we couldn't conceive, that just makes me think that maybe they couldn't conceive, maybe it was Anton, but the man hunter maybe wants it conceived with someone. - So wait, let's just be on the same page. You're saying quarterback, QB1, is Carrie and Willie's, like, Jason British son. - So either, or you're saying it's Zoe's son. - So either, well, that is supposed to be their son. - Yeah, I know that that's right. But like, the conception part of it to me was just an incredible wrinkle and layer to their relationship. It makes the betrayal not only just like the civilization wipe out that she pulls off, but also like this was a love affair. He was obviously betrayed by her at some point. But I was just wondering whether or not you were saying like, what is the miracle? - So this is what I would say. If the, if she did a miracle for her, that would leave me to believe for Carrie. That would leave me to believe that the son is that miracle, right? Or it's possible that the offspring of the man hunter is actually making son, because she was married to make it. Either way, maybe she gets there, Zoe can't have kids, or they're having trouble conceiving in some sort of way, whatever she gives to her. Part of it has to do with either one of those characters to me. - So making had Willie with somebody else. - So like a man hunter in vitro. - It could be either way. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It has to do with one of those. - Personally, I think it makes more sense if she has found, as all humans probably do, a group of people with enormous vulnerability and an enormous like debt that they feel like they owe. So they're like, Carrie on the run is on the precipice of being executed by these guys. We're then going to chop her up and take her back to Gotham. And out of nowhere, in the last second, in a diner in the middle of nowhere, Zoe shows up and breaks one guy's neck and then sends the other guy walking out the other door. The same thing goes for making the Garrett Dillhunt version where he's dying with cancer. She gives him X amount more years. What does he say? I loved every moment, whatever he said, gives him a new lease on life, understands what it's all about. And I don't know, I think it's more about like the man hunter goes around and finds the thing that you need and gives it to you. And then in return, you give them your field to you. - There's only one thing I agree with that. There's only one thing that gives me pause is that Carrie is rebuking her. - When? - Throughout the whole show. Like Carrie is rebuking her. - Carrie is. - I think she knows the danger that she brings. - But I also think that she has something more to live for. - Mm-hmm. - She has something in the future. - She's certainly prepared from all the shit that happens. - Yeah. - But she also has a kid. Like she has something more to protect. Like the rest of them can just give up the ghosts. Like even with making. Making, he said, when he died, what do you say? He said, thank you for the extra years I lived. I loved every minute. Like the extra years, I'd already committed myself to the fact that I was going to die when you gave me extra years. And so I'll give you this, the gift is this. I think even in the scene, the show keeps doing this. The show keeps doing something where two people are talking to each other. And one person is trying to figure out if the other person is lying. - Yeah. - It echoes throughout the entire show. First time we get it is in interrogation. We get it again with making an ant on. We get it. It just happens over and over and over again. So that's- - I also, I think it's such, I mean you cut you off, Joe. I was like, it's such an incredible portrait of how power actually works. And in this case, superpowers to some extent, where Zoe could theoretically cure cancer. Zoe theoretically could get healthcare for all past. She is a super being. Like she evidently can help people live through like great calamity. What does she do with that power? She uses it as a bargaining chip to get people to do her protect her. - Yeah. - Not like she is like this benevolent figure who shows up like Superman and is just trying to help everybody. You know, she is doing this in a transaction. - So loving dictated. - Yeah. - That's great. And that is something else that if we want to talk about stuff that I think the show is talking about. She's a benevolent dictator. She's a loving dictated that demands nothing short of your life and your future and your family to protect her because she gave you something. - That's crazy. The care thing's interesting because there's a scene where Hal pulls up on her and she starts shooting. But she's like, she can't hear us, but she can see us. - I have to do this. - I have to do this. So that does lead some things. - That's what I'm talking about in that scene. In that scene, she, it feels like anybody else in the town would have actually either tried to kill Jordan or been like, hey, Jordan's here. She does it. She, for whatever reason, feels indebted to her but also feels compelled to move past her. - And help John. - To help John and help them figure it out. She realizes that she cares about the town. She's found safety in the town. Maybe it's because the town has offered some respite for her from Gotham and all that stuff. - Yeah, it could be all of that. But I just, I think, and maybe I'm galaxy brain this. Just with all of these things on the, these players on the table, these pieces on the table. I think there's something more. I've never been, man, this show is fucking cooking. - So good. - So I'm telling you guys something right now. - Well, this is a great superhero television show. - Can I ask a word? He's the greatest superhero television show of all time. He's the best watcher, huh? Better than Watchmen. I don't think so. Agent Carter. I don't think so. I don't. They're in humans. Full marks for lanterns, but. Well, watch this. Just incredible. I think I like this slightly more. Really. A lot of game left, guys, guys. A lot of game left. A lot of game left. Too much of a lore thing or like a detail. Something I've been fascinated by has been Laura Lennie's performance as the guardian. Yes. We're 100% sure she's a guardian. No. No, but the man, it'd be really tough to swing it if she wasn't because you have to remember episode three. We see her from behind. We see her behind. She morphs it to. And the only person who's just like Laura Lennie as a guardian is his mom, right? Right. Right. And wants nothing more in the world than for him to be the green lantern. Exactly. Right. And notably, Guardians, not tall. Not tall, but here's, but, but John. Goes to the tests. They give him a ring at the test, right? He does the wash thing and then he gets zapped back to the thing with Laura Lennie. Right. Right. It'd be really hard for a man hunter or somebody else to orchestrate the ring like that, if not a guardian. Sure. So, which makes me go into my thing because I was talking to you about this beforehand, is why the man hunters are colluding with Sinestro. Sinestro, former lantern, could have had access to a ring, either before or after he went to prison. Okay. Given that to the man hunters to possibly help them engineer a lantern, that Sinestro could control, which is kind of the mission that he had with how. Okay. Just feels real. It'd be really tough. That's a lot to get through. It's a lot to get through. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. But like, that's the kind of, that's the kind of thinking that the show's got me going on because that black hole thing that John goes through, same black hole that we saw the cow go through in the slaughterhouse, like, there's a lot of visual cues that this show is giving us that aren't just coincidences. That can't just be coincidences. But also, it's a sign of a good show. Oh, yeah. We are litigating every little thing, which is why I want to talk about the scene at the end, the fight to how being completely incapacitated to John showing up to John shooting Zoe. Okay. So, first of all, Jordan, I give, I give Jordan a lot of credit, man. Jordan was out of his way class. He was fucking with a guy. I don't know if you guys know it, but this guy was a Marine, a jujitsu expert. They've never told us that one hand, any weapon, brand new information. You don't get the reference. Rebel Ridge. Baby. Pace. He's on the Wikipedia page. You remember that scene? No. She was so dumb. Fuck that shit. What is he saying? That he's like acronyms. Acronyms. Acronyms. Acronyms. That's me coming in with my bag of money, contingencies. There it is. Like, you just a shit. So look, real quick. Yago wise Rebel Ridge, there's a scene in Rebel Ridge where Don Johnson is outside with an empty airs character and inside the Wi-Fi slow. So they're trying to Google his tattoo to see what the tattoo means. He's outside with Don Johnson. The Wi-Fi is going slow, but it pops up just in time for the woman to see that this motherfucker is one of the baddest motherfuckers in the entire world. He trains the Marines how to fight. He trains them. He is the guy that trains them in this specific martial arts, which means you should not get close to him or fuck with him in any way. And she goes, she goes, yeah, him cat, whatever the thing is, that's probably the medical shit. But she goes, whatever. And she goes, oh man, he's on the Wikipedia page. Like, he is the guy that does this. And then he starts fucking them up. And after that, I knew that this nigga and me was going to be on the screen and in the theater together for a long time, I fucking love that movie. You guys. The fight. He's a John Hall. I was getting beat up by Rebel Ridge. He's getting beat up by Rebel Ridge. He's getting Rebel Ridge. Yeah. You know what's really funny? I give, I give how crazy. Oh yeah. I give how crazy. He stood his ground. How stayed in that fight. Yeah. As long as he could do. And you know what he did do? He saved the 5% left on that ring. Yeah. To save them. Yeah. Yeah. He did. He never went. You know, like, he could have just put it up to his ear. Could have bothered himself. Oh yeah. He saved them both. I think that fight and him snatching the ring is finally going to be the thing that makes him totally respect John Stuart as a peer equal. Yeah. Well, he says that to Zoe. Yeah. You can't, you can say a lot about it, but he doesn't like courage. Yeah. And he had that boy. He ain't no coward. Yeah. So a lot, a lot. Bates. She turns around. Gets doomed right in the head. To the point that we were talking about earlier. We think that he killed the manhunter. Yes. Zoe. Not that she's not that Zoe's not dead, but that that manhunter didn't like upload its consciousness somewhere else. Well, this is, this is where you get into like, that's, that's so speculative that like, yes, like, I wondered why she so readily took the bullet. But perhaps what she understood was that her greater mission to pass on her, her legacy to this QB1 has been, has been accomplished, but there were a couple of things I wanted to ask you guys about this fight scene and then the aftermath of it. Right. One of the things that I thought was so striking about early in the season is when John is able to basically manifest the bird without the ring, right, which suggests some sort of level of like, like skill or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. He's ever to maintain the bird. Yeah. But he's, he, this goes back to the neo like he is, it's him. Like, this is the guy. It's not just because he got trained really well by his parents. Like, there's something in the inside of him. Right. I was wondering whether or not the watch he picks up off the ground and the rubble to give to the kid is his dad's watch. Interesting. The one that he makes in the interview. Right. What is his dad's watch? Not just the kid's watch. What's his watch he has to make in the job in his father's father's watch, then there's a watch on the ground. The Tweety Bird watch. You know, that's just a tweet. I think it's just. Yeah. I think that's just like him being kind. But I think the watch though has some kind of significant value to him because for him to have to recall his father's watch like that, he had to remember every single thing about it. I mean, we see again with the bird at the end of the end of this episode, so the bird on the rubble, he's like, I got to take, I have to take the ring. The thing about John specifically, that makes him like special like versus how in this particular series is the willpower, right? How has crazy willpower like that? That's why he's one of the greatest Green Lantern of all time. But the reason why he's able to keep that bird alive despite not having a ring, it's just as an eight time at his willpower. Yeah. I mean, again, we see an episode. He's trained from birth to just be like that kind of guy to just like keep focus. He could stay nine months on a single target, like that's what makes him special. And his ability, like we see it in, particularly in the design of the watch. He creates every component like the gears, the thing one by one. And so he's not just thinking about the construct as a whole, he's thinking about piece by piece. And that makes him like really special and really up to that with the ring. We saw it a little bit with the drill, hopefully we see it more in the future, but not of John. All that stuff is amazing. I just didn't know whether there was, it was in play at all that this guy is so powerful. He can be hidden. He can do that. Oh, yeah. You can make the constructs were out the ring. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Everybody, everybody comments about it. Like, yo, you're not supposed to do that, especially somebody who hasn't really used the ring like that. This is crazy. Yes. You might, you might be the man. Yeah. And it's nearly a stretch for like comics, because that's all, that's, that's been like done like a couple of times. Okay. And like, not getting into like the nitty gritty of like comic book rules of like how the ring works. Like, there have been times where like, you can only like, hold a construct even when like, the ring has no charge or anything for like a certain amount of time. We can get to nitty gritty with, with, with CR here about Larflees. No. No. Larfle. So it's orange lantern. Yeah. There's multiple colors. I want to read you guys something. In other media from the manhunter's Wikipedia page, right? Okay. Well, this isn't going to just going to solve it for us. Wikipedia page, shut up. The manhunter's appear in lanterns, prior to the start of the series, I've insert crashed on earth with the seemingly last surviving manhunter. Yes. What word sticks out seemingly seemingly. Seemingly. This is. All right. The saying. I'm not saying that there can't be more than two land. So Zoe, you do it on purpose now at this point who cares. Zoe, she, I don't think she, it would have to be the boy. It had to be the kid. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, of course. There's two manhangers. It had to be the kid because it can't be as much as I love Jason Ritter. She not, she not sacrificing the whole time for Jason Ritter. Right. No, the only, I guess the only alternative would be Carrie. Yeah. But we, but I think we found that Carrie is not a manhunter. Like she existed. They said that she'll throw us off the trail. It was the, was Zoe being Zoe killing Avonser, a revelation to you guys. Was that? They hadn't mentioned that before. They hadn't. They mentioned it before. No. But it was. It was though. But he has to save you. And then he, you had. You know the only person who knew where you were fundamentally changes like the origin story of the Green Lantern. Like the green the the abinsur wasn't murdered. Well the whole thing was it wasn't like like abinsur was doing her a favor was being kind was like I'm gonna keep you here saving her saving her and she was like well if you change your mind or somebody gets into you you are going to do can stitch on me yeah I got to be proactive sniff step kill kill which then gives how well which then gives how our John's dad the ring and he's scared and then gives how the ring right so it sets the literally sets this whole story in motion so it's important yeah I think it was like I think it was a bit of a revelation wasn't a bit of a revelation in the flash forward that happens in the first episode when they're driving down when you drive not sure where we talked about this the rebuilt rush fill right well yeah but part of the town was destroyed right like you had passed by the uh the branch compound yeah it was like it was destroyed you can see that it was destroyed there was ruins of it or whatever whenever nobody I guess that land is worthless nobody wanted to get the ranch back going there's a data center it probably that's actually after the data center yeah we get crossover right we get Yellowstone Nebraska that's right yeah there we go yeah I love I love that so I wonder if they bought the train station wouldn't burn this anyway uh so look now the rest of the town is destroyed mm-hmm I'm interested in what can continue to happen in rushville we have three episodes left of stuff happening in rushville rushville is decimated there's a lot of show left well I think we have to find out what john did for the intervening ten years right you know so we leave rushville I think well I I imagine like like the show I think has been very um judicious where it's spending its money so I think that there are times where I can I'll see something and I'm like oh if this was like a four hundred million dollar like this is andor like and they just were like there's no limit to the budget like it would look a little different I think they spent a lot of money on outer space and so right I to me the stuff that took place this the the flying out to go meet some Astro stuff I was like that that was a lot of money you know what I mean so I wonder whether or not there's some more outer space yeah I mean I did I did comment that like that prison did look like a community got that was like a community college but like the shot of him flying out yeah earth and going up to the space to it sure I was like that looks pretty deep decent you know what I mean right so then in the next episode we would expect if it's not like because you never know it the next episode could be like a how Jordan's first mission well the next episode is going to be like they're currently is not a green lantern guarding earth yeah right there's no green lantern guarding our we got a banged up how and we've got a john who's like I don't want it that's a good point though like how he john gave the guardian the ring right he didn't take the oath technically that's still house but at this point the grinders are like you don't there's they're pretty flimsy it seems like it like they'll take it away this is where guy comes in yeah and then this is now the most interesting part of the show we're like not only is this a marriage between the current DCEU that we know that it seemingly is forced upon the show but I think that this is a amazing runway that leads up to guy gardeners addition to a cinematic universe and a television show that's been in development so this is interesting I was always in the impression that feeling was just like guy gardener was just going to be like a cameo in this right he might be but like it's it's a kind of a crux of the story yeah and at this point at this point he might be he might be just a cameo but there's so much open space yeah so much green grass you'd wonder if he's not at least somewhat significant in a narrative why would they put him in it at all at this point because he seems like adding another carrier to his just jumble things well if we could imagine that he's just been the green lantern since 2016 since Nebraska happened that he that like okay so they found guy in the intervening years and he's been green lanterns since like what connection does he have to the guardians post how post Nebraska I'm starting to see it you're right you're right the green lantern becomes guy gardener becomes green lantern 2016 after Nebraska and you've got how and john who are still out there and this is yeah the end of true detective and I can imagine how's on a for russian vendor for 10 years yeah not be having that ring where where Woody and Matthew even though they're like older now they can't give up the yellow king and they have to know like what happened so these guys are like there's something that doesn't sit right about what happened in rushville and how won't give up the ghost and the man hunter probably takes how out just like ovensur because he's like you're the only one who knows you're the only one who's figured out yo armack I keep coming back to a man I can't imagine archmaning man putting one into into how that's tough I bet I'm doing it arch doing it but I mean archmaning he's at the stadium the kid plays football what the kid just fucking straight drilled him with the with a fucking 90 yard or right in the face that's what happened to purses purses actually it's not what happened to purses purses killed his grandfather great mythology right grandfather was told that it would be cooler if if if this kid was like a free safety and it was like he was just dropping Steve outwater like bombs on dudes uh but then he's gonna go by the way I'll finish my Percy's story okay very much don't breathe we learned we learned this I look like you don't need him chancellor you know what I mean I mean I'm gonna be purses killed by throwing the discons into the crowd after it was prophesied no that'll be I mean look it seems like rushville is still a town there's still a high school they're still playing a high level football they're still out they all state athletes are right oh you know what'd be really cool what is if in the absence of the manhunter like rushville is kind of decayed it become like another forgot in American oh yeah we'll test belt and it's just like fentanyl fucking corruption whatever yeah dollar stores but like back in the day when we ran it because why should the hospital be full now or even if if rushville is still thriving then there's got to be a man that's right yeah it did not look like it was right didn't look like it was no it looked it looked that's because that could please that for us you yeah he's he's gone you know know what that rush like the crazy don't crazy part of that in particular is I mean we saw so we saw this right at a comic card right the guy garnishing the guy garnishing yeah he comes to the police station oh you saw it well yeah well he didn't so you saw guy gardener Nathan Philly and came out he expected kind of a bigger pop and he's like they didn't have jeez he's a man uh huh he wasn't in that moment yeah I don't give a phone with no he he the man he's also I just think that people were so like on edge about everything in the show yeah I think a lot of those kind of common audiences this year were like except for yeah except for the marvel except for the marvel was they were camping out for three days yeah so he came out and then they showed it but all they really showed was him coming to the uh landing at the sheriff's office with like some technology like a little it looked like a detector something by there and then he walks into the uh the cell where John is sleeping and then it cuts and that's that's all we see but like he's gonna be we obviously know he's gonna be a cameo but or at least making appearance I don't know if it's cameo or if it's a longer form thing I would imagine the friend to bring him out there at Comic Con and have him like for a cameo for like if she showed for one episode for 15 minutes and then dip I don't know if you bring him out at Comic Con for that did uh I guess he's already there but still is Anton dead Anton blew up he's gone okay gotta be yeah I didn't know if he got like stuck up into what's I'll say the alien hit squad guys tough they got a start the whole pretty easy yeah they didn't bring no technology they brought nothing with they just got the suicide vest on them so they so they know how to detonate themselves and do all of the shit but when it comes down to it is just choppers which also why are they all driving like kids yes we're by you know I'm saying like have some like get get some eucons right they're like you saw the office building don't know what I'm saying they know they don't have a budget they don't have like they don't have like they didn't they didn't have no type of actual technology except except the genocide memory gun they had the genocide memory gun but it's all choppers with them they didn't really have they have no answer they don't have no hands real they didn't have a good strategy actually to take the man hunter down there obviously where was that new because they were like we're gonna just nuke this whole town if you don't don't seem like it's just the collective we all explode at the same time you are okay at the same place yeah but I also think that Anton for whatever reason they Anton wanted to kill the man hunter but Anton did not want to kill the man hunter before he had a chance to have that discussion conversation yeah yeah number one he wanted to make sure that they were killing the right person but number two that motherfucker has some shit to get off his chest yeah clearly I thought his death was pretty unceremonious ever if there was something that like did not work about this episode for me is that Anton runs in there to nuke everything and how tornadoes him away well he had this moment with makin that's that's really that really was but it was a fake moment he never actually got a real moment with the man I mean to your point though. Homeboy laid it down. So he deserved to have that moment was so at the end. You can't really do like a two for where Anton has his moment was though and then gets killed and then John this like this and this is old catharsis for that. I'm just saying to me, like if there is one thing in the show that has kind of been pushed in a little ham fisted. Is that alien, this is an interesting difference between this show and perhaps watch them. But I think specifically this show and maybe is to the point I was making about like sometimes feeling like I can feel the budget limitations is 15 years ago if this was a movie, the alien genocide that the man hunter takes, it executes would be shown. Yeah. Yeah. Like Zack Snyder, when they had to think of the John's hit. Yeah. Yeah. And instead it's just like everybody just do the acting and then you have to believe that this guy's been on a galaxy wide quest to find this person. You know, you have to believe that what John saw changed him. And I think it did. I think when he saw what the man hunter did and then found out that the man hunter was the guardian's handy work. I think he was like, I don't think I could work for. I love that. I love the show because it's like it has such a great way of camouflaging expository dialogues in every single show because like there's so much groundwork that everybody does via dialogue through like the first three episodes of this. And then really only in this episode and the last one did we have like some real like action like plot momentum. There's a lot of that dialogue. There's action in it. Yeah. So sure. So if you take the interrogation scene, that is the way you do that. Exactly. That's what back and forth. Yeah. Like the diner scene the same way. Yeah. There's there's dialogue where you just sit there and you give the whole thing. But then there's that's what you're reacting to with Zoe and John when he's getting a skin replaced. Is that she's standing there just being like, I was blah blah blah. And then I did this and then I did that and I felt like this, but I had to do that. You know, every show or every movie's gonna do a little bit of it. You just can't. You have to. It does. But like with his squad like for their plight, that was perfectly, I think executed for like the way that like he was like describing this to how and then making sure that he saw that in the genocide gun memory, whatever. That scene was fine. That scene was fine. Their presence to me was always something that was just to sort of ratchet up the intensity of stuff that was already happening. Yeah. I personally never liked that. Like, but if you do it, I always feel like those characters need a little bit more to bite on to. But this show. It's also very. It's a very tough thing. Like I know it's a trope in in fantasies, superhero sci-fi, whatever the shapeshifter, the whatever. But it's as we saw in Secret Invasion, it's hard to dramatize that. I'm a Beyonce. Shout out to everybody involved in Secret Invasion. Shout out to everything going on. Everything that has happened or will happen. And where people got going on and their families and their dreams and their careers. Shout out to all of it. Shout out to, you know, y'all work for a long time. You want to fill it up. Shout out to every other SEC. Shout out to every. Yeah. Try hard. Every other. Shout out to every. Shout out. No, fuck them. Shout out to everybody. But yeah, but just extend grace. It's grace to everyone to Oxford to Amen. I say this, but I say this man. This is kind of the intensity scale and scope that you are expecting. Oh, yeah. Yeah. From like something like it's kind of uncanny at this point to know how much self-detonation in Secret Invasion to, right? I believe so. It wasn't that like a big. Yeah. But it's kind of they create the strongest motherfucker in the world. I mean, never. Yeah. Well, yeah. Cracks are terrible. Nobody wanted to see that. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's a better signification. It's kind of a better fucking one or soldier. Ah, fucking one. So yeah, I don't know what. What's like level sub basement of for you Twitter I'm on right now. But in the last couple of weeks, I've seen we've been trying to revive Ultron like in terms of like critically revive Ultron. They are now there is like a actually rise of Skywalker have bars. No. Yeah. There's no, there is. I mean, I'm sure it's like clipping bots accounts or whatever. And I'm like, they're going to come through the Marvel TV universe soon. And it's going to be like actually. We've been high on fucking one or soldier. No, I love fucking one or soldier. This particular podcast. I know. Like I remember on fucking one or soldiers. Yeah. But you guys have not dipped into Secret Invasion was actually good. We're never going back. No, we know season one season two, one division, parts of moonlight. Hawkeye Hawkeye for Hawkeye was a phenomenal show. Not phenomenal. But good show. Five five hundred soldiers. That's where that's where we'll find out. Oh, yeah. Where we'll find out. That was by perfect. Yeah. All right. Um, look, I'll tell you guys something. We continue to cook. We're not doing manhandling rankings or so far. Let's do it. Fuck it. There's the board. Oh, there's the board right here. I mean, no, it's five. No, no, it's shooting right up after I just now. So what do we do is though because obviously she is a man or do we take her off? Well, she's off. Now clearly. We do. We do. We do. We do new manhunter rankings because she is definitely a manhunter. The manhunter rankings now are second manhunter ranking. Right. Okay. So he's always off of the board. Right. Um, so we don't have to do four now. Right. Yeah. We don't have to make sure we get out of this. We got out of this. Okay. Who's number one? Who's got a five manhunter rank? I mean, number one is Noah, right? I think, uh, yeah, from the discussions that we've had. So Noah goes to number one. Noah has gone from five to one. Yeah. And now second manhunter rankings in one way. So number two, we have to be Billy. Yes. Number two have to be Billy. Number three. How about John Stewart? Ooh. Okay. Hi hybrid. Hi, hybrid. Hybrid. Hybrid. Hybrid. By racial. Has is not the same John Stewart that started chronologically this show. Sure. He is not. I was. He is running through. Is he a manhunter like a manhunter? Or a manhunter? Like, I have some manhunter in me. Okay. Damn. I will put house dead body at four house dead body. Hey, if anything, how's the three house dead body at four? Yeah. Now, house dead body is the construct. So this, this entry, this entry, I feel like Stewart would have known possible. I don't know what maybe he did. Maybe he did. I don't know the physical properties of the century because like nobody's actually touched it. I don't know if you can just put your hand right through it. Oh, right. Like is it a projector or if it's a physical thing like a hologram? But remember, he, yeah, he looks to the ring. He looks for the ring on the dead body. Can we put hologram two pocket on the list? That would be good. Was that like the first time that we were this all like holy shit. This is real justice. They got it. Justice guys. He got it. Yeah. Finally manhunter. Nothing wrong with that case. Okay. Nothing wrong at all. Okay. So then, all right. So then if we go, Noah, Billy, John Stewart three. That was just, that's I'm a, I'm a guest. Okay. That was a very long pronounced shot of her dropping blood into his eye and his eye changing and his DNA changing. I tell you something about that real quick. Just to let y'all know that right there is something I was warned about my entire childhood. The blood is ready. You don't eat nothing red from a woman's house. Just forget it again. You don't eat nothing red. Is this this is this is who do you don't eat nothing red. You don't eat no red sauce. You don't eat no spaghetti. You don't see how yummy. Do it because they're doing this in Nigeria too. No way. Don't put that on me, Ricky Bobby. I'll just cut. I'm just saying. That's what you did to her. She did to her. She did to my, my mama's seeing us mother. Y'all have to understand. Y'all have to understand something here. And I've talked about this before. You know, I say shit like this and you guys look at me. As if I'm fucked up. This I didn't make this up. They told me this right. Yeah. And so I will be going to a girl's house. I'll be like, Oh, we're going to learn a study. My mother will be like, Oh, okay. Cool. Don't eat anything with red sauce at her house. I'll be like, man, shut up. She goes, I'm being serious. If I find out you went over there and you ate spaghetti from that girl's house, what the fuck you up? Don't eat it. My dad would be like, all of that witchcraft and my mom will be like, worked on you. All right. So, so look, ring chose me. Yeah. So, okay. So cool. So then three. So then four is who? How's dead body? How's dead body? How's dead body? And then Kerry's like basically like fifth, but like we're just because she's already up there. But yeah. So Kerry is fifth. Okay. Kerry all the way down. The guardian off the board. It doesn't, it doesn't make it, it would be a stretch for the guardian. I also, I also think for casual viewers, they would be like, this is annoying. I have to take some of the things in the show at face value. I shouldn't have to know what like shade of blue on a guardian is or how tall they are. Like, I just want to watch this. You cast Laura Lini. She can't possibly be like, it can't be a fake out like that. Are we all on board? at least kind of on board with the second man, her theory. Yeah. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Second man, her theory. Okay. Second man, her theory, and we got this. All right. We out of here. See our man. Thank you, brother. You're welcome. Thank you for sitting there, bro. - Hell yeah. - The question is now, who is sub-chair? Is it Rob? Is it C-R? - Oh, am I in the net, is the sub midnight boy? - Sub-mini-boy. - That's sub-mini-boy, anybody that's been on is a midnight boy. - I don't think you mean that this is-- - I don't think you mean that this is-- - I don't think you mean that this is the usual term, by the way. - First of all, first of all, it's a midnight boy. - I don't think you mean that this is you. - First of all, that is not a, you're not the game of the midnight boy. - I'm not saying you're the game. - I'm just, you just did that. - We talked about this. - You're talking about this. - I'm talking about what you're saying. - You need to stop. - You just did that. - Oh, last question. Do you think Charles like this episode? - Yeah, let me tell you something. Charles is somewhere gritting his teeth because he's forced to like stuff. That's not how my society, I mean, he just likes the show, right? - That is how my, let me tell you how my boy is, my guy. We all went to the Dodger game. We sat at the Dodger game. It was like besides the degrees. - We were like dissociating and just like staring. - See, all right, we all got to the Dodger game. Jomi came through with the tickets. - Shout out my guy, Clintons. - Shout out Clintons, man. Clinton, that's a man. We all there. And we get there and we go, he's saying so bad, man. And then they can start eating hot dogs. (laughing) People start, they start doing the way. (laughing) - They start happening in the game. - Yeah, I remember. And then all of a sudden, I take my little jersey off, whatever I got to think, I'm like, yo, I don't know. The game was crazy. The Dodgers went like 13 to 1. So they were scoring runs and runs and runs and runs and runs. It was cheering, you're getting up, you're cheering. And then all of a sudden, I looked up, it's the fourth inning, it's 8.30, I look at the screen of Dodgers. - And she does, it's 9.22 degrees. - Yeah, yeah. - There's not a single piece of breeze in the air. - No, nothing happened. - Yeah. - And so, like, Mookie hit a homer, Muncie hit a homer, we get to a point and Charles goes, right after this stretch, Charles goes. He was so defeated, bro. Charles was up, he goes, "Guys, I ain't gonna lie." - I can't do it no more. (laughing) - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But the Dodgers were up, it was after 17th stretch. - Yeah, at the time. - I said at the time, it was great. - Kyle Tucker hit a homerun, man. - Man, Kyle Tucker was going crazy at night. I kept, every time Kyle Tucker got up, what did I do? - Put it in me, man. - I encouraged him. He was like, "Yo, don't be a guy, bro." - That's our guy, Kyle Tucker, we believe in him. We believe in Kyle Tucker. - You believe in your baseball team? - Yeah. - Sure. - You believe in Crawford? - Crawford. - Oh, that's your, we're bit with me. I mean, like, we're-- - Do you believe in setches and. - We're fine, it's always, it's just a red October thing. Oh, isn't it? - So when it happened, when the playoffs roll around, we are either hitting, we're going yard or we're not. And if we go yard, who knows how far we can go? - I'm telling you, so Justin Crawford is having an amazing power season. - Uh-huh. - This bit again. - I feel like you're-- - This is sarcastic. - He's having a great year of power. - This is the antagonism that I was right before the hour. - He's got to work with this guy, man. - He's a great player. He's a good player. We went to the game, which the weather was lovely. It's actually kind of cold when we went. - Yeah. - And set, and set it to school. - So you went to San Francisco apart. - We know it's funny about that game real quick. So we were all sitting down, right? This is funny. Shout out to Craig, man. Shout out to all the fans, football guys. So we were all sitting down, and, uh, you know, somebody hits the ball out to center. I'm like, wow, in San Francisco, it's really deep in center. - Yeah. - You got to hit the ball. And Craig goes, "Yeah, that's where Willie Mays made the catch." I was like, I don't think that's true, but he's a crumb. Northern California. - Yeah. - He's from there, so I was like, okay, and then I'm like, this is one of the only times in my life where I've done this. - You rejected him. - It's not true, but I don't know enough. - Yeah. - So I'm like, I don't think that happened, but then, like, literally, Jimmy's late Craig goes, oh, wait, that's not true. - Yeah. - Wait, were they still in New York with that happen? - I think they were still in New York with that happen. - And also, where we were is not what Candle's Tickies do. - No, no, no, no. - When I thought about it, when I was walking back, it would almost be impossible, because they played at some place before they got there. - Do you remember the whole family in front of us and the dude was watching LSU baseball, like-- - They're from Baton Rouge, yeah. - The whole family in front of us from Baton Rouge, we just fined each other. - We just fined you baseball. - Stick you together. - All right. - Thanks for having me, guys. - No problem. - All righty, got down to you. That is it. On Monday, the House of R continues their lanterns, coverage on Friday, but Masha gives their reactions to the resident evil movie. Thank you, CR, our producers today are Devin Brody. Jamie Eukits, John Jones, Jamie Adinner on all socials. Hashtag rings within rings are cool needle drops. - Only Vera, baby. - Like cool needle drops. Also a lot cool ring stuff. You can see the hotel room, blinking rings, rings everywhere. - K-B-O-H-B-O, huh? - H-B-O, dead, K-B-O-H-B, I remember that back in the day. I remember back in the days, we go there. We have H-B-O. - You can watch Rome. - You guys, you guys laughing about that, but I was in, I was a Missouri for my sister's graduation. And I was like, man, I'll tell you what, I don't got H-B-O, I'll turn this on. They had to depart it on. - Yeah, it was great. - K-B-O-T-V is the best. - Come on, man. Just tell me what to watch. Additional production from Arjuna Ram Gopal. Jamie, do you want to take a shot at taking us out? - Oh, man. Yeah, I'll give it a try, man. - This is what Charles usually does. - Yeah, this is what Charles does. - It's harder than you think. - It's incredibly hard. Thanks, CR, for coming on. - It's the two-ron structure. - It's the two, I was saying that, it's the Limerick. - It's the Limerick, it's A-B-A-C. - Thanks, Chris Ryan, for coming on. Actually, I don't think I have that rhyme correct. - This is hard. I don't know how Charles does it. - He's a Savon. - Yeah. - You're a spot. - He's a backpack, right? - Thanks for seeing us back there. - Man-hudders are lost in space. - Thanks, CR, for coming on. We appreciate you, this is so tough for you. The Rushville Hospital is the cleanest and shout out to John Stewart. For serving that man, a 100, a black penis. (laughing) (upbeat music) - I've always wanted to ask like, CR and Van, you guys had the internet, like from my childhood at the internet, it was like e-bombs world stuff, something awful, where like kids were just like making like weird cartoons and shit that were like, just like either too edgy and like they were just making unbridled creativity and stuff. Like I didn't know what that early 2000s internet was for like somebody even slightly older, like for you guys in college. - From me it was message boards. - Yeah, message boards. - I didn't actually have vlog and vlogs and stuff. - Right on them, I wrote blogs, but I didn't write message boards, but message boards, but that was where I would, like hang out all day, it's just go to like, hip hop infinity or hip hop DX or whatever. - Hip hop DX, like in download and music, it was like. - Yeah. - Not everybody was participating in the internet quite yet. You hadn't really found your way to actually participate. - And there wasn't any incentive, like you had trolls, but there was no incentive to make people insane yet. - Right. - Right. - So people were just like community. - You would be like, "Oh, I like this band." And somebody would be like, "That band's terrible." But you would just be like, "All right, yeah, that's too bad." - But they wouldn't be like, "You should kill yourself." Because you like this band. - The longest threads, I remember when, we'll get to the show, but I remember when Renegade dropped. - Yeah. - And Eminem was on the record and the record dropped and Niggas on this message board just could not wrap their mind around how Eminem savaged hope on the record, right? They just, and like, it came out and it was like, Eminem, new Jay-Z and Eminem Renegades, it dropped before the record came out and like, I'm on there, that's what I wanna do, go. Man, I ain't gonna lie, bro. White boy kind of washed hope on there and then it was 15 posts in a row of, "Damn, I didn't wanna say it." - Yeah. - And that led to 175 pages. It's like legend. - And every post is like, "Damn, I didn't wanna say it." Then this dude's avatar, which is like, Bugs Bunny holding the gun. - Right. - And his avatar has like six quotes, you know, where you can find people. - Oh yeah. - Like the body pattern, yeah. - It was like, that was janky. - That's what it means, that's what it gives to the bottom. - Yeah, there's more Twitter used to be, but it was just like this guy. - And then a variable. - So guy working in a circuit city and it was like, "Damn, hope got washed." - Somebody invariably, somebody comes out and goes, "I think it's just some coins, y'all want to see Eminem wash hope." And then we like, "Damn, then somebody put the, "Royce the Five Nights version in there." And Niggas was like, "This bitch is better too." - Yeah. - And it was like, it was like, whatever. But that's what it was for me. And then really, my space changed everything. My space is the first time I participated in the internet. - It's also my space is the first time that you had to like, pretend to present something. - You were like, my five records or whatever. Like people are gonna judge me for that. And this is how I'm trying to present myself. So before you could just be like, I like this. I don't like that. Like what's up to people today? Hey, but like I was literally a consumer of the internet, like just reading stuff on there and stuff like that. But even the stuff that I read on there, it was only stuff that I didn't want to read. What's up? Okay. Oh, even that it was even that it was just stuff that I didn't want to read like before, like I didn't want to read the newspaper or something. Like so, but it wasn't a real thing. Yeah. Anyway.