‘Lanterns’ Episode 4 Instant Reactions | Midnight Boys

Welcome to the Ringerverse. This is, of course, the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. We are Steve, the Architect Almond, host of RingerQuest, which is on the feed right now. RingerQuest is going crazy. I'm going to be honest with you guys. We're going to get to the show quicker today. This is the only time I'm going to stop to kind of get into something. If you're not watching and supporting RingerQuest, we don't fuck with you. Okay. Join me at the explainer at dinner on. You've got questions, he's got answers. Old Man Van, he of the receiving resurgent hairline. Coke, Baby Chuck, the 24-karat closer. Together, we are known as the Vanity Fair featured Midnight Boys. We'll be right back after this. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tremphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. 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Which one was it? It was the one where we were talking about Hal Jordan. We were doing the Wolf of Wall Street bit and talking about how, like, he's killing, even in his, like, little minutes in episode three, how great he was. And, man, I think he had, like— Trump administration was, like, getting the black boys off our platform. It wasn't even, like, 24 hours. It almost had, like, 150K views, and they were like, eh, tough. Enough. Yeah, nasty work. If they run afoul of us, they'll rue the day. We're on YouTube. Like, comment, subscribe, share. You can watch every Midnight Boys and House of Art episode on YouTube.com backslash at Ringiverse and also on Spotify. Programming reminders on Monday. The House of Art continues their lantern coverage. They're doing amazing work over there on the House of Art. The deep dives are deepening and diving. On Wednesday, Ring Request Part 2 drops. Once again, we demand support for Ring Request. It was one of the most fun things we've ever done. Production value was high. Thanks to Steve, Alea, everybody around here who helped make that happen. That's a production and an amazing piece of content. Please support Ring Request. Thank you. Watch Ring Request. I'm not telling you to support it like it's charity. Just give it a spin. You'll love it. On Friday, Button Mash gives their reactions to Wolverine and gotta bring up something real quick. What are we bringing up? I thought you wanted to get to the episode faster. What am I bringing up? You're right. I'll save it. Ben, we see you. What? What do you mean? He wants the coach for Wolverine. On today's episode, Ben, we see you. Come on, man. We see you. Big Cullenberg kind of put it down a little bit. On today's episode, we react to the fourth episode of Lanterns. And I'll say real quick right now, the response to this show is, they boon for the Ringerverse and for the Nerdverse. Wow. What a show that we can coalesce around. We're having so much fun with Lanterns, and this episode is fantastic as well. Is this one of the first, it feels like one of the first times we've had a show where it's like it intersects with everything, where it's like, oh, it's the nerd shit, but they also got a lot of black shit going on, and motherfuckers need to come right here. Kind of a discourse machine. To get the full perspective. That's because we weren't a while when Watchmen was on. We were in the same thing, but you're absolutely right. And kudos to the showrunners for being able to have a show that's accessible to a lot of people for different cultural reasons, okay? But before we get to Lanterns, we have to do a spoiler warning. We're going to spoil the show, Wolverine, Lantern, all kinds of things. Steve? We're getting ready to talk about Lanterns. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. To begin our reactions, though, we have to put you in the know. The only person that can do that is Charles. I actually forgot to do the Midnight Benefests today. So can you, uh, can we do, like, a. Hello, Ringiverse fans. I regret to inform you that due to the initiation of Deep Shadow Protocol, this bit had to be edited out of the pod. I know. I'm just as disappointed as you are. Thanks, as always, for listening. And the Midnight Boys, pew, pew, will get back to you shortly. Midnight. Okay, just fucking do the Manifest now. All right, this is your Midnight Manifest for Lanterns, episode four, directed by Geeta Van Sant. Oh, you actually. I actually wrote the Manifest. I was being an asshole. Okay, okay. Hal visits the imprisoned Sinestro for information about the Manhunters during this conversation. Sinestro stokes fear in Jordan. The former pilot admits that he knows John is in his backup, but a replacement sent by the Guardians. Back in Rushville, John locates an underground bunker on the Macon Ranch, and the duo make a plan to search the compound. Before embarking on the mission, the Guardian visits John at the motel. She tells Stuart that in order to become Green Lantern, he must stab Hal in the back by taking his ring away and saying the oath. John draws a digging machine that will help the duo make it to Macon's compound, and Hal gives his subordinate the ring so he can manifest the object. But when the two Lanterns get to the high-tech compound, they're ambushed by men with anti-Lantern tech. Macon makes John draw his dong in captivity until Carrie arrives to save the odd couple. Zoe arrives at the motel and has sex with John. Her walk of shame turns into a walk of death. When a satellite vaporizes her truck, John shows little emotion. Hal and John locate the maker of the satellite with the help of Carrie. They ambush a man they think is Hector Hammond, a classic big-headed Green Lantern villain at a slaughterhouse. This Hector isn't Hammond, but an engineering student meant to lead the Lanterns to this location. Hector threatens to murder John's family and further ruptures the trust between the two Lanterns with a recording of John bowed, bowing his mentor. Hal uses the information he got from Sinesho to suss out that Hector isn't the Manhunter, saving John's family. On the drive back to the motel, Hal figures out that John suspected that Zoe's the Manhunter and in a reenactment of the podcast, pilot Hal jumps out of a moving vehicle, leaving his former partner to crash into a phone pole. That has been your very long midnight manifest. Gonna throw it back to you, Vin. I feel like we gotta start where the episode starts. Hal versus Sinestro. Two iconic heroes, villains. How do you feel like the show handled them? Okay. So this is a very important scene in the show. Yep. Okay. So Hal with Sinestro, the veneer of Hal Jordan, totally gone. Yeah. Totally gone. Such a well-played scene by Kyle Chandler. When he's in front of Sinestro, you can tell that he does two things he hasn't done to anyone else. Number one, he submits to Sinestro's authority ever so slightly. Every other time that he's being Hal Jordan, it seems very authentic. When he does it with Sinestro, it seems forced. I'm just gonna fucking leave you. No, you don't wanna do that. You don't wanna just leave him here and fly away and figure it out yourself. You want his help. You care about his opinion for whatever reason. And there's almost an energetic submission to him. And also, you see the beginnings of fear. I think you pointed this out when we were off mic. Talk a little bit about what you said. I don't wanna take your take. So what's been interesting and a lot of fans have noticed this is that if you notice the difference between Guy's ring and Hal's ring, Hal's ring has like a gold trim, but also they do a lot of close-ups in this episode where you, you realize it's starting to crack around the band. And when he, when Hal was having the conversation with Sinestro, not only do I agree with you, Sinestro was doing a very subtle thing where he was instilling this type of fear about Jordan and his place in the universe. And they almost, it felt like Hal almost has like a Kobe to MJ relationship with Sinestro where he respects him. Obviously, he was powerful. He was able to kill a Guardian. This was his mentor who taught him so much. So to me, it's such rich storytelling that this is probably the only, at least Green Lantern or figure in the universe that can really poke Hal in the way that makes him not only afraid of the person he's supposed to be teaching, but of his place in this galaxy. - Let me ask you guys something real quick. What type of person can tell you what to be afraid of? Who gives you your fears? - Usually your parents. - Ha ha. So we coming off one episode, where we saw parents take fear away from a child and what that looks like. And we saw another one, there's one part where he asks him, he goes, like, is he fearless? And it's almost a throwaway line that Chandler goes, he may be. And when he says he may be that way, the seriousness in his face is like, this guy might actually be someone who could supplant me. But that scene is so important. It's the beginning of a suspicion about the greatness of Jon Stewart, but as kind of how Jordan is regarding him. But it's also the first time we see that there is a humanity to Jordan, that there are certain people in certain situations that they will be able to take advantage of. I mean, and what was also interesting is that Carrie says, I forget if it was in, like, the first or second episode, she talks about how lonely Hal is. And we know that his dad died. So it is this poetic thing where his father figure, his mentor, perhaps the only person in the universe, because he tells Jon later in the episode, don't get close to people, this is a very lonely job. It's very poetic that the only person in the universe that can really understand Hal right now is Sinestro, his father figure who is locked away. And then the other person in Jon, he's pushing away. Like, there is, the show is doing this very interesting, very interesting thing where the bravado of Hal, the bravado that Kyle Chandler's bringing to this role, is hiding something childish and nefarious and just very, like, lonely. Something broken, yeah. There's an interesting level of layer to this because Sinestro kind of instructs him to, like, lull Stuart into, like, a false sense of security of, like, okay, fine, play along with this. Make him think that you're actually training him and feel comfortable. Make him feel comfortable about it. And for the most part, we do get that because there is a level of cooperation throughout the entire episode. But the conversation that bookends this episode, like you said, like, he kind of full-on admits, at least, and I seem to believe it, that he admits that, yeah, you could have every chance at being better at this than me. And, like, you probably are going to be really, really good at it. And with that, he then crashes a car. And I think that that's a, like, that's a very interesting choice of, like, the level of vulnerability that Jon has in his mind. And I think that that's a, like, that's a very interesting choice of, like, the level of vulnerability that Jon is willing to offer up to Jon and then immediately, like, undermine it or, like, smack him in the head with a pole is very interesting. And it's, like, a sort of familial bond of, like, acting out this level of insecurity that is instilled from Sinestro passing down to Jon. And, like, I don't want to talk too much about the ending because it's fascinating, the conversations that they have in the car. But that was the biggest thing from Hal's perspective that I saw. I think, like. I think, like, for me, talking about. I mean, obviously, Hal and Jon's relationship is, like, the foundation. It's the crux of the show. And for the first time, we see them work together and we find out, like, oh, these guys actually work together pretty well, right? When they're not bickering or, like. Well, not even, like, really hiding stuff, but just, like, doing their own thing. When they actually, like, put their minds to one singular goal, they could be really successful. The problem is, like, they've got so much other stuff going on. Jon, like, him, like, needing. Not needing to take the ring, but needing to earn the ring, right? He feels a personal sense of, I can't just take it from this guy. I need to be. It's got to be given to me. What's wrong with you? Why are you the way you are? I feel like Chandler. Chandler Spry. Chandler can take it. Yeah, I think he can take it. I think, yeah, I mean, I absolutely think he can take it. I mean, first of all, you got to work up to it anyway. Yeah, you can't just start. Yeah, obviously. It's not like the industrial drill that he made from the. Yeah, you can't take that. Nobody can take that. Well. I'm talking metaphors here. Darkseid. Darkseid can take the drill? Probably, yeah. Thanos? After a while, but you got to train it. Right, yeah. You got to train it. You got to train it. But, no, if Thanos couldn't take Ant-Man up the booty, how could he take the drill? Well, to be fair, we don't know that. We don't know that. We don't know that, for sure. So, you guys played along, by the way. This is what happens, though. You guys always go, oh, Van. That's D&D. Yes, I am, man. Wait, really, I want to ask, because you guys have brought up something interesting. Is the league changing in front of Hal? Not just with Jon, but when we think about the larger DC universe, I'm like, oh, Hal predates Superman. So, he is very much like, he's used to being, like, not around a bunch of superheroes. And now he finds a replacement that can make constructs from the inside out, almost does not need the ring. And if we're looking at everything else that's happening, probably around this time in the universe, he's like this, which is interesting, he is an old dog, in a changing world. So, I thought about this. I don't think he thinks in that regard. Okay. So, I think that that is what's happening to him, and that's what this show is cementing. And he is waking up to that in real time, and we're seeing it. I don't think that's ever actually gone through his mind. Okay. Because I don't think he thinks broad enough, right? I don't think he thinks broadly enough about things like that. It almost felt like, Sinestro had to make him, well, it didn't feel like this, we watched it on screen. Sinestro had to make him, in the front of his mind, say what Stuart is, his replacement. He had to get that out of him, because he's either fighting that that's deep down inside of him, or he hadn't seen it yet. But now, it's in the front of his mind. And it was interesting to see how he acted throughout the rest of this episode after he had to admit that, right? I'm going to bring up a scene from a movie that some people might have seen, some people might not have seen. The last thing I'll say about this particular scene between Hal and Sinestro. Did you guys ever see an actual movie called Manhunter? Oh, yeah. Who's in that? Okay. So, Michael Mann made this film. Right. And in this film, this film is William Peterson, and then you have Brian Cox as Hannibal Lecter. Okay. So, this movie was remade into Red Dragon. Yeah. Where, what's the character? Somebody's screaming out back there. What's the character that is played? It's also in the movie, it's also in the show Hannibal. Right. It's not Hannibal himself. It's like the other mad serial killer, right? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The character that William Peterson is playing, he plays in the show Hannibal, that character also exists. Special agent. Yeah, the cop. Huh? You're talking about the cop who's in the books. Will Graham. Like, Will Graham is the character that is, you know, that Edward Norton plays him in in Red Dragon and then in Manhunter, it's what's-his-face and then, you know, whatever, whatever. If you watch that scene in Manhunter specifically, they've redone this scene a couple of times, but if you watch this scene in Manhunter specifically when Graham has to go and talk to Hannibal Lecter, it's weird now when you watch it because it's a young Logan Roy playing Hannibal Lecter. That'd be awesome. But when you go and you watch it, and you watch the scene now, there's this way that Graham has to soften himself because he needs Lecter's cooperation because he's at the limit of what his mind can do. Lecter is a genius. He's brilliant and he knows everything. But there's also this tension between them because Graham put Lecter behind bars. I really wonder if I had one of the writers here, if they used that scene to model this scene between Hollis and Nestro because it is the same thing. He has to sit there with the guy behind bars who he knows has more information than him, who he knows has more angles in his head than him, but who he put there. So there's this tension between them, but he still leaves with information that makes it, in this situation, in Manhunter, he's trying to catch the tooth fairy, but in this situation, he has more information about what it means. Are the rings getting out of control or at least the people who wield them? Because what's interesting if you look at the lineage is that the Guardians are afraid of Sinestro because he was powerful enough to kill one of them. Hal, obviously, is more powerful than Sinestro because he took Sinestro down. And now Hal is like, the guy that's trying to replace me, damn near does not even need this ring. And it's like, I was like, oh, are the Guardians realizing, like, similar to the Manhunters, the lanterns and the rings and the people who are there who wield them are something that we just cannot control at this point. What the Guardians are trying to do is bring in replacement players so they can reset the market of the league. Like, in 1988, the NFL brought in replacement players and people still went to the games. And after that, the Players Association kind of knew how they could get out of it, right? Like, they knew what their limits are, what their Cs are, what their dealings were. In this situation, the Guardians are trying to prove that we don't actually need the ring to make a decision. We can make a decision because your lifespans are so short, we can make the Green Lanterns that we want. And if they do that, and if they can do that, they've reset the power dynamic of the Green Lantern Corps. They'll never have another Green Lantern like Hal Jordan again. Somebody that they can't control. Yeah, Hal is, well, interesting, like, I don't want to get too far away from your Sinestro point because it kind of, like, undergirds the whole episode, obviously. But when he talks about you can't get too close to anybody, you can't love anybody, he's also talking about Sinestro. that was his boy they brought him up and so when he betrays he betrays the guardians betrays the green lantern corps he's like and he had to take him down he's like yo i really don't have anybody there's nobody in my life i can trust he can't even trust john he can't like his entire life is like fundamental to that thought to that thought and so yeah like i can understand why how it's kind of how sucks but i understand how you become that way when you can't love anybody you can't trust anybody you are all alone now we go straight from this back to john we see john he wants to buy a scope his parents are calling the whole nine we go straight from this back to john now that you've seen this scene when you first saw stewart again in this episode because he has a lot of awesome scenes leading up to the first time that they go how did you feel seeing stewart now knowing that the conversation that he had had with the guardians like all of this stuff seeing everything what's your feelings on stewart now after the conversation with sinestro and you know what the guardians told him about taking the ring well what makes stewart so fascinating now and the way aaron pierre is playing him and he even brings up this after him and zoe have slept together that like everyone's lying to me you have his parents who are calling him the entire episode yeah trying to get to him so obviously the guardians are still conversating with him and he's conversating with his parents and he doesn't know how much he can trust them or how overbearing they are he can't really trust the guardians he can't trust how and then after episode three obviously they foregrounded how much this show is about race so it's very funny when he walks through to get the scope oh man and he drops the money down how much where i'm like oh aaron pierre is playing his loneliness different than how's if how's loneliness is very much like i'm gonna be tom cruise mr maverick like watching i understood john stewart's character a lot more where i'm like oh he's truly alone or at least like as a black man as a green lantern as just someone in rushville it's mission accomplishment and he does not necessarily have time to really slow down and be like what the fuck is happening right and it makes like a feedback loop of distrust between how and john specifically because while how doesn't have anybody backing him and he feels like everybody is against him he feels like john feels like all the people that are supposedly rooting for him clearly have ulterior motives just behind his ascension yeah and it's like that's the more fascinating thing because like that's just going to escalate every single episode until we hit a breaking point i mean it's really interesting especially given the conversation i last took about raising versus programming and you could make the argument that they programmed him too well right because the guardians want him to take the ring from how they're like amen that guy kind of wild and it's really not you got to go get take the ring do the oath whatever but john doesn't feel like he should take the ring he should get the ring like that john feels he should you know instead of taking he should earn it despite what he tells uh the guardian in the room yeah man he's sorry he's old i'm next up i'm him he doesn't want to take it he still wants it to be given to him he still wants to earn it is that all right if we're getting spicy because i could tell there were maybe there were some black people in the room where i was just like it is very interesting that john that john doesn't want to have to take the ring from how and do it in that type of deceptive way because i'm like that is very true to the african-american experience where it's like instead of getting the ring because you deserve it and the right way to go about it you almost there has to be subterfuge there has to be like i have to overprove myself i have to do all these other fucking things just to get to the starting line and i was like oh that's fascinating man when i saw that this is what i thought about you are absolutely right so if we go back to the programming thing i'm not gonna do a long preamble because i want to stay in the moment of what you just said but actually i'll come back to that let me stay in the moment of what you just said he doesn't want to do that because there's an inherent entrenched self-morality code that exists that is a part of the black experience we hold each other even if we can't be hyper consistent in all the time to a standard that's based in community give you an example of something you don't ever hear like white record executives have to answer questions about bad contracts that they put artists in like nobody asked these questions to jimmy ivane nobody asked these questions to like tommy mottola like clive dave nobody asked these questions but if you're some if you're a black mogul if you're master p you know if you're dame birdman if you're a birdman the black community is going to ask you why did you put someone in a contract that we believed to be predatory how could you do this to one of your how'd you do this to one of your own right but there's something beyond that too there starts to be a sense of we really not trying to dirty nobody he doesn't want to get the ring that way because that's against his cultural tradition his cultural tradition is not take advantage of the first fucking opportunity that you see and do something when someone's not right and just pounce on them and still that's not the cultural tradition it's not the cultural tradition it's not the cultural tradition of morality that we've been raised with that we've been told is the right way to do something and we are no matter what people try to say and lie about the community that i come from that people will look at you and be like yo you wrong and he is not interested in that and the reason why it's so interesting right now is because he's we're watching him in this episode like break the programming he disobeys his parents he disobeys the guardians and that comes off as if he's not interested in his parents and that comes off as if he's not interested in his parents in the last episode why did he say that he wanted to shoot the apple off of his mother's head because she lied to him oh yeah she lied like the thing that made him go no you know what you stand under there is because he realized the same way you feel about your parents when you realize santa claus ain't real why did you tell me this all of these years like what's what you want and then after that you go okay well what else is out here that you told me that's not for real now you have a different relationship to them that like literally i'm not gonna lie to you i'm not gonna lie to you understandings of the glitches in the programming or rearing or whatever you want to call it is the reason why you go seek the truth for yourself because you start to really understand that what you've been giving might not work for you it might not even be true and i think he's in this episode if you look around he's operating outside of the chain of command a couple of times and it gets him more relaxed because this episode has a lot of moments of levity without a doubt levity between john and hal that i found like amazing actually like the little joke about the weenie and the uh amounts of times that they were like kind of like staring at each other about how weird like the slaughterhouse was and all of that like there's a lot of funny things that happen when hal and john are actually legitimately bonding or at least what it seems like that because we don't know if like at least i didn't clock whether or not hal has that level of duplicity in him to actually lull him into a sense of security proclamation right proclamation proclamation you can't just say proclamation right now i declare bankruptcy that's what you wish on me no no no no it's the joke it's like you can't just say i declare no you you watch the office white guy makes an office joke i get it i get it uh proclamation aaron pierre will one day be the biggest star in the world oh for sure proclamation aaron pierre will one day be the biggest star in the world and i'll tell you why why it's what steve is saying talking about when they're sitting on a water tower and he makes the joke i was gonna kill the vibe at disneyland aaron pierre has a way of softening his face like changing his gaze almost energetically morphing into a scene to where you understood that he was trying to tell a joke and you didn't even have to laugh it made you feel good and even the way chandler plays off of him the way how did you just make a joke like he has this thing that he can do the subtlety that he operates with in this role of being this army guy it's just very very rare that an actor has that emotional and energetic control over the characters that they're playing he's amazing and what i thought was interesting because if you start from the beginning of the episode where john puts the money down that choice informs everything else that happens in the episode because what he is saying is not only could i afford the gun i can afford the scope i could probably afford everything in here every single time he is in a scene with anyone else it is like what's he doing to how oh that's the weenie this is how i learned it blah blah blah when they're in the motel with carrie he's like this is a setup this is why blah blah we're walking into this even when how gives him the ring and he makes the construct from the inside out it is john proving at every single point why would i have to steal the ring i have every i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i haven't done everything and i have all the skills right like my bank account is fucking full why would i ever have to steal my way into this i'm that good at it and it's like that's why i also think kyle chandler is playing something interesting where his jealousy isn't really jealousy of john anymore there starts to be a recognition where it's like oh there's someone else like me in the universe who's this good he's starting to respect him yes yeah oh yeah he's like he's he's he's starting to respect him he's starting to see that number one he is qualified it's not just that the guardians want to want to howl jordan replacement this is a bad motherfucker yeah he's smart he's capable he's all of those things i don't want to i don't want to get i don't want to like get to like the ending yet i know we got some other stuff to talk about but that man you hit it right on the head bro the way kyle chandler through through this episode like starts to look at john in a different light despite the conversation he had with sinestro yeah right sinestro is trying like you gotta look if you're not gonna kill him you gotta uh we gotta undermine him right turn uh find the manhunter bring him to oa and disgrace john in the process and he doesn't do that they go out they they find the weenie they they get off the compound they go to um the the slaughterhouse all the while you they have they're having the conversation like in the car for example and he's like hey man like you're hey man you you're kind of good at this bro like that that was awesome you you're cooking right now i appreciate that and like it just makes the ending hit so much harder throughout everything well i don't want again i don't want to like we that's so much uh we have so much to talk about but that particular like it was the moment when he was like just give me the ring when we go in the slaughterhouse he's like no but i respect what you did so can't this i bumped up against this when they finally get to macon's compound this show is jumping through a lot of fucking hoops for them not to use the ring they're like they got black smoke they can't use the ring i'm like hey yo bruh like so i guess i have a question i wonder why so is it because of budgetary constraints to the show and all that stuff like that they don't want to do the whole thing or is it because the ring itself is too convenient of a narrative get out of jail free card like the ring honestly could solve most of the problems that exist right and do they want to put these guys in a position where they have to use their human skills more than just like the i guess this one was that moment was i tripped up on because i was like we still have not situated the green lantern ring in this world so i'm like how does make like i know like you could say man hunters but i'm like he's equipped all of these people in here with anti-green lantern tech like that is something that if true why is he even making like going they're like oh all the green lanterns will come i'm like you guys have smoke that makes the rings useless right like you you're one that would make you one of the most dangerous people in the dc universe if this is still the universe where the green lantern ring is going to be the most dangerous people in the dc universe ring is the greatest weapon that that they have right answer this fucking question you'd explain it like you know i'm saying like in the past you know all you needed is to wear something yellow and then right or wood right now i just imagine that i think it's column a column b right budget you know i was i literally watched a scene of of in superman when the justice gang for the first time and guys doing like the whole thing sure i'm sure that costs a bunch of bread right and so can't really do that a and b i think there is a level of it is a joke get out of jail free card so ultimately what you want to do is show that they are like john and how or john specifically can get by without using the ring right and so you put them in a situation where they can't they can't use it all the time therefore they show their skills without the ring and then once they start wielding it you're like yeah this obviously this is a little bit of surf dracula in that but right but it's still like it's still it still means would you guys though if if you're captured by making are you drawing the dong gotta draw yeah i'm gonna make it like i'm gonna get real teensy yeah i don't care i don't care what he's actually you gotta be anatomically accurate yeah you can't i mean respect the process is that i mean there's no reason to draw that man's and be small if it's not small that tells me i mean like if then look right you gotta think about it i'll put a clown nose if anything i'll i'll i'll look out for you you give him a couple inches yeah if anything it's like i'm not gonna draw right because you know sometimes check him up sometimes i went to the getty museum we all went to the getty museum and you you look at it and it's like a sculpture of mercury right he's got the hat on the whole they were doing those guys any favors and you're like you this key can't be a but this is how i can tell it is freaky he got all these motherfuckers in there he's like y'all all seeing the meat and i'm like if i'm one of the soldiers i'm like hey boss only person who was freaked out and his daughter hold on for a second though but why bro why why i generally uh who i have i don't want to see my employers me but yeah but there's a bit more of an hr thing okay but here's the deal though like if you in the nfl all right right and you playing in the in the in the in the fucking game you shower you see people yeah but that's everybody's meat not just one person but here's the thing if i'm like at the gym i'm in the locker room i'm like that's a place where i'm like you're probably gonna see some meat yeah like if i'm just you can't get used to it though what are you talking about man equinox sports club la sepovita meat show that's the meat parade and i get it it's the locker room it's the locker room but that's the all right while we're here let's just get it out i'm gonna be is the man is the manhunter box fire because john went back for seconds jesus i mean after he knew he was a manhunter okay so we're off the meat we're okay we're in the we're in the corner we are in midnight okay midnight no bullshit i think that this is actually like a really good chance to talk about like in a serious way talk about like john's experience with intimacy and why it actually makes him afraid well he's a robot and of course he would like to fuck on a robot right but well no not even that it's the fact that like when he has a gun pointed at her for way too longer than it should have been you could actually see that he's afraid of what might happen if he puts that gun down yeah and then it's the one thing that his parents really couldn't teach him he put the gun down is to be like intimate and vulnerable with somebody and still feel safe so here's the deal though the most interesting thing about all of this to me is that at the end of the episode we are led to believe that he knows that she's the manhunter he's fucking her anyway okay would you not i'm okay so uh uh if you had a chance to fuck a robot so wait a second not just any robot this is a question that y'all have to answer pretty soon this is a question y'all gonna have to answer pretty soon sam altman's somewhere going oh my god right and then robo chris hansen shows up yeah so so um you see how this looks robo chris hansen show up that's funny bro it's funny no bro it's that's actually hilarious it's funny well if in the future the chris hansen is actually coming in there because you fucking right like you got my car that you're trying to like you know i'm saying you got like transcript it says here uh one zero one one zero is this what it looks like sit down don't go anywhere robot here you want to breach my data what did you what do you mean by that but look so he knows that she's a robot yeah and he knows that she's a manhunter at some point and he's still having sex with her now let's talk about what we know about manhunters he doesn't know everything he doesn't know everything he doesn't know everything obviously hal doesn't know everything he's getting information from sinestro but what you do know is that these are synthetic beings that have been around for a very very long time that are immensely powerful and inherently dangerous what does it say about john stewart that he suspects strongly or knows that zoe is one of them and it doesn't stop him from having sex with her and this is a very lindelof type move to steve's point you know what did we see last episode there's a very oedipus complex reading of this where it's like he holds the gun against his bob it shoots the apple and he obviously gets turned on by holding a holding a mother figure at gunpoint and having sex with her there's a lot going on you're allowed to read it like that i'm just like again you can read it hold on wait a second but that's zoe zoe in this i'm just gonna be honest i don't want to go too far down the oedipus hole right but zoe but zoe in this is played some she's an older lady than john stewart right and if you watch the relationship that was reflected in three and now like when she's leaving she tells john in the first episode or maybe the second can remember the first one right very directly you want to walk me to my truck like come out here they don't change names only he's almost it's almost as if in that situation he's kind of following orders a little bit yep like just a little a little bit this is not a bad read i'm not nobody is saying it's a bad read it's a tough look for john but no but that's what i'm saying i'm like there's a level of like non-training that he has when it comes to intimacy that like very clearly, like, if he is like attracted to a woman or has feelings for somebody even if he just mildly likes somebody that's not in his programming from the previous episode like that's not part of his life so they taught him they taught him be fearless but they didn't tell him about how to talk to women it makes it kind of makes sense the birds and the bees that's interesting about whether or not they did or if they didn't because there is a certain amount of fear that goes into those types of understanding being vulnerable but they probably had to take that fear from them too hey man don't be scared of the hoes bro are you going up there you got all right we're not we're not saying the h word anymore hold on y'all have said scaring the hoes all the time i know that's more tech better i hope that the entire audience is the lights are bright a different time get at me when i do it okay let's stay on the light stop right this week they they pretty bright the lights is bright right now as they have fucking got around we want to be in publications the lights the lights are just all right y'all play y'all play not like okay let's stay on this situation let's talk about the end scene before zoe gets fucking zapped all right let's talk about the end scene he's everybody's lying to me everybody everybody the guardians his parents you this is an echo of when his mother lied about the birds of course and then he took a little bit of his power back from her by making her scared or seeing if she was scared testing her fear and this is what has to happen to john john has to see that people they're not respecting the chain of command they're not being consistent for his program in the break and i think that's what's going to happen to him and i think that's what's going to happen to him and i think that's what's going to happen to him and i feel like that's what happened in this scene that's what happened in the show was it a miscalculation on his part where i'm like yo you pulled the future your old girl got zapped and he was like happens like if i'm if i'm how like how rightfully so it's like god damn i didn't think you were that cold well i i think again it speaks to like the emotional conditioning of like okay well that's a thing that i'm either distracted by or afraid of that is no longer here i don't think i i legitimately think he's trying to fight that because again in the end scene of the crime scene he's like i'm not going to fight that car he's trying to fight the fact that he actually liked her it might i think that's what it is though really because i think what it actually is is how it's just that good like that's what it comes down to for me it's how it's just that good because how i was like man i was trying to solve it but this what what ultimately comes to the conclusion is like uh he was he was lying to me like that's that's what it is that you got you you got caught up like that's ultimately what it all came down to and we can't really work like that if that's how you're gonna got him out of character but is zoe really i don't think he was sad about zoe really a manhunter or is this underlying what we were saying in earlier episodes that there's a bunch of manhunters at this point i think it speaks to that theory a lot probably speaks to the theory that there's a bunch of manhunters um i wonder if john is down the road of the mini manhunters theory if he's believing that she's a manhunter but that her being a manhunter isn't that singular in this particular place where they are because after she is zapped everything that we're talking about about like how he starts acting so odd yes he becomes a little bit reserved he's in the room he's holding back from them number one he already knows this he's holding back from them he they're solving the crime which was even when i was watching i was like god damn these niggas is like fucking sherlock holmes in this bitch yeah they got we got pulled up ndas from like 10 dummy corporations we didn't talk we didn't talk about it we talked about like her getting blown up from the sub-upper laser but yeah shows shows cooking hey where'd that come from up there just point just point just point 45 degrees just point boom gone found it found the satellite brought it back down and then we go on this really interesting journey from this part in the show to where they have to you know reassemble the satellite figure out where the satellite came from who licensed the satellite all things that are going to happen and then we go on this really interesting journey that whoever would have put that satellite in the sky would know, that would be very easy for an investigative agency to do. They would have to know that. Then we get to the point that they don't really care because they wanted to point to one person. All of this is doing more work between the characters than it is between the actual story. They just want to get us to the point that they get us to at the end of the episode. I'm still not really convinced at how, quote-unquote, good the mystery of this show is because it's not kind of on the rails, but it really doesn't have that level of. I mean, we'll see maybe later on in the season, but I'm not really seeing a level of red herrings or duplicity come. It's just more of like, all right, we're down this path. We solved this problem. Here's the next clue. It's very power broker coded to me. I think the mystery is devastatingly well executed. You think so? I have no clue what's going on. Right. Like, no clue what's happening. By the way, Zoe could be the Manhunter. Let's say Zoe is the Manhunter. Or a Manhunter. A Manhunter. That might not even be the big question of the season. I have no clue what's happening. We still don't know if that's actually John who's dead or Al who's dead at the end. Who killed him? Who the Manhunter is? Who the benefactor? Like, there's so much happening to the point where I am confused sometimes while I'm watching it, and it's not an issue. It's not like, oh, man, this show's not doing a great job explaining it or threading me through. This mystery, it's more like, oh, my gosh, so much is happening, but this world is so well-designed, well-built that these mysteries, as much as they are intertwined, I'm still locked in despite the fact that I don't know what is happening. I guess I'm more so on the side of because I'm so interested in, like, John and Hal's relationship and Sinestro and Carrie and all of that, the mystery part of this isn't the thing that's key. Like, if this, it was obviously influenced by True Detective. True Detective, True Detective is something when I watch that, besides the performances, it was like, what the fuck is happening? Who's behind all this crazy shit? The mystery was driving that. This mystery is, I'm just like, oh, it's cool. Like, we're getting to the final boss. Yeah, like, it's a buddy, it's more, I'm more interested in the buddy cop dynamic in this show. For sure. And I think the good thing about, like, whether or not the mystery might be hitting for me is the fact that, like, we're all staying present in the moment of the show and not really, like, obviously, we have a lot of theories, we have a lot of things that could be happening, but, like, we are entranced with what is happening, right now, and not game-theory-ing out, like, ten episodes ahead. But I think that's why the show's so, like, incredible, because it's doing both things. Right. At least for me. You have the mystery element that I'm enjoying, and you have the buddy cop dynamic, like, absolutely works. I think that's why the show is operating at such a high level right now. Hmm. Um, so, now, by the time we get to the slaughterhouse, we are in full weird fucking what's happening mode. The tone of it, it's an incredibly clean slaughterhouse with people acting weird, the characters do something that I always love in scenes like that, where they call out how weird things are. Yeah. They say, hey, enough of these weird-ass people. We watched that poor fucking cow. Whoever wrote that was a vegan. For sure. Because when you have to watch how your steaks are made. Nobody wants to see that. Nobody wants to see it. Man, I don't care. You don't give a fuck. I don't care. Now, let me ask you guys a question. Shut up, bitch. Get some brisket, man. Let me ask you guys a question. Like, we're not gonna all eat that in New York. In the scene where the gentleman is sitting sitting there, what's his name, Hector? Hector. They say he's Hector Hammond. He brings up John's parents' house, puts it in there, hey, we're gonna zap them the same way we zapped Zoe. In any part of that scene, did Stuart show fear? Did he show fear in that scene? I don't think he displayed fear, but he froze. I don't think so. I think, like, as close as you can come to John being afraid, because he was like, that's my parents' house, and then Hal started, like, dicking around, and he's like, hey, man, like, I'm not afraid, but we, that's my folks, you know? You gotta, you gotta get to it. And eventually, like, Hal figures it out. But I think there's, I even still feel like in that moment, there's still enough trust between them where he's like, he's gonna figure this out, but I would prefer if my parents did not get blown up. So, you brought up something interesting, so I wanna fold all of this into one. I think a lot of viewers are bumping up against Kyle Chandler's betrayal of Hal, because that scene is a perfect, like, people are like, is Hal racist? Is he a dickhead? Is he this? And that scene, to me, is I'm like, oh, no, this is just how he moves through the world. This is a very, this is a trope of cops. Like, the cop who's gonna do anything, he's gonna figure it out, he's always trusting his gut. And my reading of Hal in that scene is I'm like, Hal knows he's gonna land this plane, he doesn't care how he has to do it. And that's what makes this so interesting, because the Hal that we would get in comics would be a little bit more goody-two-shoes about it. He's not gonna put Jon Stewart's family at risk. This Hal doesn't give a fuck. Well, this Hal is also, we, Hal's, we've talked about this a couple times, the source of Hal's power is not the ring. The source of Hal's power are his instincts. That's why he is who he is. His instincts were what was on display during the interrogation scene, and his instincts are once again on display here, but he has to use them pretty quickly. On the, Is Hal Jordan a racist thing? So, like, the question to me, I'll frame it by saying this. Like, there's a certain amount of power that if you have it, even incompetence is evil, right? You can just be evil or you can have a certain amount of power. And if you have that amount of power and you do something that's incompetent, you're basically evil because of the amount of people that you can immiserate. Like an incompetent president, a president that just does something that's foolhardy, that starts a war for the wrong reason, that engages into something that is politically or even socially or culturally dumb. You can't distinguish that person from someone who just wants to kill and hurt people. Right. Because. Because the effect is the same. I think what the audience is talking about when they talk about Hal Jordan is someone or this show, period, and a grander societal question that we ask is people who aren't aware of privilege. And whether not being aware of privilege is inherently racist. Because if you're not aware of privilege, if you're racially ignorant, if you're culturally and socially. If you're socially ignorant, then the damage that you will do, your microaggressions are indistinguishable from actual aggressions. So the uncomfortable conversation that black people have tried to have with America is for you to not be racist, you have to care about being anti-racist. And then people go, well, wait a second. Like, I don't want you to, like, police every single thing that I do. And I don't want to have to. Nobody's asking you to do that. Calm down. Your response is denoting that you feel like this is your country. This is a community that I live in with you. And if you inside this community with me are not aware of how I live in this, then you're telling me you don't care. And how are we supposed to do anything together? And so when you look at Hal Jordan in this show, just him not caring, him being unaware. The Guardian. Jordan's being unaware. That all doubles down on the privilege that the guy might have. And it comes across as racist, even if Jordan himself doesn't hate niggas. Well, so I what I think is interesting and what this show is litigating as well is this is racist in terms of you have to think about when Hal was born and also what it does to the white psyche and what it does to the white male psyche. When you see someone that is not only younger than you. Stronger than you, potentially smarter than you, but is also black. Yeah, we see that all the time where it's like it is easy. It is just a human instinct. It is easy, easier for you to want success for someone that looks exactly like you because you can put yourself in their shoes. And then the minute that they don't look like you, it takes more work. And when you live the society that we live in and you think of what Hal as this character, even though he's fictional, is going through. Of course, there would be someone who grew up. In the 70s, 80s, 90s, being like, oh, the version that's replacing me and is better than me is a black. We see it in professional sports all the time. Can I tell you something right now? I want people to think of something. I want you to think of this. I want you guys to think of George W. Bush and Barack Obama. George W. Bush is a C student. Like the presidency chose George W. Bush. Right. Like it legitimately chose him. Right. Like his ancestors were on the Mayflower. He comes from the lineage of Prescott Bush. His father was the president and the vice president. His brother was a governor. It's almost as if the presidency chose him. He was like somebody at that moment that was put in a situation to where it's like, OK, you're from this dynasty of a family. The presidency chose you. Right after that, what do you get? You get somebody who is their entire life. Has been preparation for leadership, editor of the Harvard Law Review, constitutional law professor, organizer, like achiever, achiever, achiever. That is Barack Obama. Even the talent that he had, like as an orator, as someone who could connect people, this uncanny ability, like almost to be able to create that construct, like this uncanny ability. To be this transformative political like reality. And look how people responded. Yeah. Like, look how people responded. There were a lot of people that were absolutely inspired by Obama. But then there were other people that legitimately felt an existential dread that he could exist, that there could be a guy like that. But it breaks your reality. And that's what Lanterns is getting at, which is. The reality that in a racist society that a bunch of people do not want to admit is that just by existing, yes, if you are black in this world, you are going to have to do two or three times as much just as you get to the finish line. And if you admit that, your world starts to crumble because you're just like, oh, how much of the things in the world did I get because I worked hard for them or because they were handed to me? And it's interesting that the creators decided to use what we know about the ring in the comics, which is. It chooses you. And then it gives us Jon Stewart, where it's like all the rules. They subvert that. All the rules have changed now. It's not funny, but it is kind of funny. You made a great point. But essentially what you said was George is Hal, Obama is Jon Stewart. That makes Donald Trump Guy Gardner. Wait, can we get the art team to do, we should do a Hope poster just for Jon Stewart? Put Will on it. It's actually not a bad idea. I had a question because like that, that, that's all immaculately well said. And I, I was really curious because. Don't be too curious, nigga. No, no. He can't be like, man, he can't put a scooby on. Do we have a coofy in here? We should have one on deck. We should have one on deck at all times. Yeah, we should have a coofy in here at all times. Go for it. No, because like it kept me thinking about episode three, because when the guardians are talking to Jon Stewart, they're like, oh, we should have a coofy in here. And they literally cannot conceive of racism. Brown? Like they just think of this as a more of like an objective thing and not understanding the consequences of even giving somebody like Jon's father the ring and then taking it away from him. Do you think that like, can the guardians be racist while also not knowing what it is? I mean, so I was thinking about this. This is going to be a long way of answering this question. I was like, the thing that's interesting about. The space cop element of this show is they kind of say it in an earlier episode is just like, man, what do y'all actually do? Like, if you think about it, you get one green lantern per sector. So you got a bunch of green motherfuckers. You have your own police on all these other planets. Police that have either that have been put in military, whatever. And then you got some random alien that's coming down, like saying what the law is. I don't know if the guardians. You race in the same way humans do. But if I'm an alien, the DCU, I'm like, why do I got to respect these niggas? I mean, to be real with you. Oh, go ahead, Jimmy. I mean, I don't think the guardians like it's who put them in power. They did. Right. They took their own. They took it by force. They made the managers in power. That's why I understand why I'll be listening to these motherfuckers, man. Like, who are you? Real questions here. Shout out to Mace. Mace was on it. Mace was like, that's always why I got. I've got the problems. I got the problems. I got. Nigga, who are you? That's the same shit with me. It's like, let's just sit and talk around. Can you imagine being in the DCU? One day you like, man, fuck the police. But you only got to deal with the green police. And then overnight you got, damn, we got red police now. We got yellow police now. We got blue police now. Honestly, yeah. So that was one of the most amazing tangents. Oh, what was your question though, Steve? Can the guardians be racist while they seemingly can't understand what it is? So the answer is it don't matter. And let me tell you, like, the answer is it don't matter. Like, I said this on Higher Learning before and people got pissed off at me. In any rational world, you'd have to have complete agency on something to be responsible for the effects of your participation in that thing. But this one ain't rational. This one ain't rational. And the reality is, I'm going to look at you and be like, yo, man, you know every other fucking thing in the universe. Like, why haven't you taken the time? Like, I can give y'all, y'all know every other thing. Y'all invented a power ring. Y'all invented all of this technology. Nobody had time to read a little James Baldwin. Like, y'all. But, all right, if I push back, if I push back, they did say in a previous episode, A, they didn't give a fuck about Earth. Earth was not on their fucking radar. So to the guardians, once Hal gets the ring, they might be like, damn, you gave this white monkey the ring? Like, did they? And they like, we all just ate. Legitimately I think it's two things One, we know about the Guardians They're not the coolest people in the world They are dickheads Two, more importantly, they don't care They just don't care They don't care I agree The larger thing is And this is probably accurate If you're an eons old space being The quibbles of Minuscule beings Short life spans A short life span on this planet Probably seems like some dumb ass shit to you Like two kids fighting over the remote But do you think that Actually the Guardians Do know a bunch of this shit And they cleverly were like We do not like Hal Jordan This is a planet where They are killing each other Over the color of their skin We can actually manipulate this In a way where we get what we want Well the only thing I'll say about that is There was a white boy walking out of the room When he was walking in there If that white boy exists Yeah but here's the thing It seems like the And I might be wrong It seems like the Guardians Have been working the Stewart family For a while in terms of It seems like an asset to them That the father and mother Do not like Hal Jordan Yeah I mean of course Because they were able to use that as a wedge We never even found out in that episode What made Bernadette and John Sr. Want their kid to be a Green Lantern so badly They never discussed it But I think We are left to infer That being a Green Lantern Particularly for a military man And a military family Represents perhaps Will be the right word Maybe they feel like It validates them in some sort of way Maybe they feel like The father's failure in that moment Is indicative of the entire family Or maybe the entire race Like that it rectifies his failure It's not intentional It is not intentional But it's so funny I thought about this last night While I was watching it I was like It says a lot about The middle class black existence Where they see Hey yo Not only could we be earth cops We could be space cops Alright back to the show Okay now I'm with it Fuck that shit Back to the show Okay so This When we got through the compound Do we want to talk about the ride Back Well no Oh the ride back Before they get to heaven The Hectors No cause we talked about We talked about them We talked about the ride After they leave Hectors The ride after they leave Hectors Where This is Obviously We're halfway through the season now This seems like a major breaking point Between the two Where Hal is We actually didn't Before we go that We didn't talk about this The Guardian What's interesting When the Guardian comes to John The not Hector gets the recording And then plays it For Hal About everything that John Really really thinks about him Guardian's up to shit Yeah Don't believe it Guardian's up to shit Of course The most clear thing That was ever going to happen Of all time ever Was John was going to fight Was that John I thought that would come later I was really surprised I was going like Oh that was like It took 40 minutes For the Guardians To end up Trying to drive a wedge FanDuel is now available Everywhere in the US I've been everywhere man I've been everywhere man So you can get in on the sports action No matter where you are Including these places Make this your most rewarding season ever With FanDuel Age and location restrictions apply Product availability varies by market See FanDuel.com for eligibility Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER For adults with Crohn's disease Or ulcerative colitis symptoms Every choice matters Tramfaya offers self-injection Or intravenous infusion From the start Tramfaya is administered As injections under the skin Or infusions through a vein Every four weeks Followed by injections Under the skin Every four or eight weeks If your doctor decides That you can self-inject Tramfaya Proper training is required Tramfaya is a prescription medicine Used to treat adults With moderately to severely active Crohn's disease And adults with moderately to severely active Ulcerative colitis Serious allergic reactions Increased risk of infections Or lower ability to breathe And liver problems may occur Before treatment Get checked for infections And tuberculosis Tell your doctor If you have an infection Flu-like symptoms Or need a vaccine Explore what's possible Ask your doctor about Tramfaya today Call 1-800-526-7736 To learn more Or visit TramfayaRadio.com Gray roots entering the chat Uninvited Garnier's got you Garnier Color Sensation Root Retouch Covers up to 100% Of grays in just 10 minutes No ammonia No mess And the color lasts up to 4 weeks It's as easy to apply as shampoo Plus it's vegan and cruelty free 10 minutes Sensational color Sensational price With those savings Your next girls night is basically free Find your perfect match At Walmart.com Or at a store near you Between John and Hal Because that's what they love to do The Guardians love causing mess So that was going to be one of my questions as well What the Guardians love to do The Guardian that we have seen It is interesting to me That we have not seen her appear to Hal And I'm like Is this actually a Guardian? Is this a Manhunter? What is going Because the only time we've seen Maybe I'm wrong The only time we've seen the Guardian Beside with anybody else Is when that guy was walking out of The room for the job And with John's mom The entirety But all of that would have been a part of the ruse Yeah Right So I'm like Why isn't the Guardian also trying to play Hal? Like they know that Hal Is visiting Sinestro Yeah but I think their math is He's lost We can't talk about it Yeah but if they knew that he was lost Then they would have tried to get a replacement For him going And here's the question They have We didn't go For having like 20 years They have We didn't go over this It is very very weird to me That she's just like Okay the next time that Hal gives you the ring Don't give me the ring Don't give it back Say the oath And I was like wait Why are you Like if you guys are the Guardians And you guys made the rings Why is John having to go through with With that Like what's happening So this is the thing that I was most interested in I actually did a little research on that The ring would then automatically acquiesce To the will of Stuart If he says the oath That to me Denotes that the Guardians can control Who the Green Lantern is That it's not all the ring And if that's the case To Charles' point Why don't they just fire Hal Yeah And you know what I mean Like They have to have somebody Who's worthy of it right Right So is the Is And this is why you need to explain it Is the thing That the ring Is the best At choosing Who's worthy of it And who's fearless Right And so then the Guardians Go along with that Because the ring does a better job of that And the ring would not choose Jon Stewart If he wasn't fearless Like if Jon Stewart says the oath And he's not cut out for it The ring goes no Well I think it's two things I think one like I mean both of these are like Mainly like show things A They want the ring to choose Jon specifically Because They bred him since birth To be their So the ring would still have to choose him Even if he said the oath If he wasn't worthy of it If he says the oath And takes it Then he becomes the Green Lantern He becomes their Their proxy Right If the ring goes and flies off And goes somewhere else Then Jon's SOL Right They don't get their guy That's in the mix That's why he needs to take it Well Hal would have to die first Exactly Right And so By the comics The comics The fucking shit happens The ring Like But that's what happened With Abin Serna Yeah But in this situation here That's not what she said Right Because Jon's not dead Or Hal's not dead Right So like Oh so Only if he dies Would the ring go and choose somebody else Yes Right But In this situation He's not dead Exactly So Would he have to be worthy of the ring Because then the question is What if You're Hal Jordan And you take it to me I'm scared of plenty of shit Like You know what I'm saying I don't like fucking Stepping out on balconies So like So if you You'd be the worst Green Lantern Of all time If you give If you give me the ring And I say the oath Do I automatically become the Green Lantern I don't think so If I'm not worthy of it I don't think so either But I just It was weird to me Because even Jon The way Talking to like Aaron Pierre being a fantastic actor There's something on his face Of like Wait Why do I have to go through All this subterfuge To get the ring Yeah Because it doesn't seem very Official It's not like he's being visited By all the Guardians He's being visited By one Guardian That only reveals herself To him And his family And I was like That is a little odd I Again I mean She knows that Jon Or Hal has given updates About Jon He's not creative I mean There's She says that And then there's a scene When he's Showing him the schematics Of the day And he's like I'm creative But is Hal giving Actual updates Because we learned In the previous episode That he shut off For ten years So I'm just like Is she lying to him And like I mean they're always lying I think it is like To be suspicious Of The Guardians Is always A good idea Because again These guys are The worst But I don't know man There is a level To me Where Why Who would they be To make Jon Their proxy if not because Hal is such a nightmare. - Well, 'cause this is also starting to like me think like how does sinestro know about manhunters and how does he know that there's some on earth well you know is it possible that the guardian that sinestro killed was actually a manhunter it's possible and that's what i'm because like the only other way that that one perceived manhunter that was that is say we're going with the idea that that guardian is actually a manhunter that manhunter wouldn't have known that uh hal effectively clocked in to the prison to visit sinestro to do so right i would manage i would i would wager that it's probably like a rogue guardian but at the same time how is is like rogue in of itself right we talked about like you know what it like being a human for a guardian is just it doesn't make their brains can't like comprehend why these people would have these emotions would do these things would act out of character you give a regular alien the ring out in space they follow orders to do as they're told there's no there's nothing other i mean there's chilling we gotta worry about it for humans they act out these short lives give them these different emotions that makes them do crazy things we gave a human the ring and we cannot control him yeah everybody else we have on a string this guy creates problem after problem after problem we need a human that is going to do exactly what they're told and so they again we've seen in the last episode they quite literally from birth breed somebody who they feel like the embodiment of what it means to be a perfect human green lantern you don't you follow orders you don't say no you do exactly as you're told and for them when she comes back and she's like yo hey man i spent your whole life making you this perfect uh robot for me to control and all of a sudden now at the moment of the opportunity you not you're not coming through maybe your daddy was a loser that was crazy by the way that was tough but here's the thing if i mean if you flip it though think about this what do we know about the man hunters the man hunters can transform into anyone anybody if we know that ab and sir and would either a man hunter was on board and that man hunter escaped wouldn't a man hunter be like it would be great if we could raise a child knowing everything we know about humans racism all this stuff wouldn't be great if we could raise our own green lantern and have them on our side and that's why they're just like hey next time how gives you the ring say the oath because they're essentially like they're not it's like that's my thing if this was a guardian why are they going through this if the guardian was a man hunter they would be like hey do this i want to say two things real quick one i'm having a fucking immense amount of fun right now yeah this is crazy fucking this is amazing number two go back to what you just said a second ago we have not discussed that the fact that he in some way showed a little flex with the guardians or a little he bucked up with them a little bit and she started ripping his family lineage to shreds in front of him talking the most cash money disrespectful shit that we've seen maybe you a bitch just like your daddy nigga what the fuck you gotta fight think about that though that to me lends itself to a theory that there is some type of nefarious fucking aim behind these guardians because the thing that they are doing in that situation is trying to egg him on to take to take over because they need control over the green lantern for some reason they don't want it they need it almost as if they need him to do it now so they can tell him to leave this entire thing alone before he finds out what is going on in this town but here and this is why this is why i am like raising the like is the guardian a manhunter theory is maybe the manhunter when they crashed on earth with abin sir was like fuck we thought that we were going to get the ring when at when abin sir died the ring immediately goes to the most worthy person so they are impersonating be like actually i'm a guardian and we got a new way of doing things i just i think that's a hard conceit because okay okay let's say john does take the ring john gets the ring and he's got to zip over to oa for you know initiation and whatnot and they go wait a minute who is this yeah who who are you you who picked you you don't know but that's that's also the other but like the guy gardner thing of it all like he could be official right and not no and like because there's two rings now well god gardener is 10 years later sorry it's 10 years later yeah we don't know but it's the mere fact that like if if if it's to be believed that guy gardener is actually legitimately like he's gone to see the guardians like he's part of that official did it go away did that like when this was solved this mystery the death of how the guardians might not know that they have a manhunter in their rings they might not know that like this guardian could be like on earth basically manipulating a bunch of shit not and that's why sinestro when he killed they're like you killed the wrong you killed the wrong and he's like no no you guys have a manhunter wouldn't sinestro just tell how that nah you can't give up the goose like that you sinestro wouldn't just tell how that like i killed a man instead of a guardian exactly yeah he's been before what to what end though if he actually killed him if he like if he actually killed him wouldn't sinestro just be like hey well maybe he can't because he's he realized he's being washed or they knew they went out there anyway all this was fascinating all right let's get back because we're getting to the end of the episode the conversation in the car coming back that leads to car accident crash can you guys explain because you guys have watched the episode more than i have why do you think that how jumps out of the car leaves john in there was he trying to kill him i watched that scene i watched the scene like going from the uh hector hammond joint to the end like 10 times because i was like i was like yeah i was like yeah what is what am i looking at so here's what i think happened and here's why i think not only is cal chandler amazing aaron pierre the whole writing team like everything is working at such a high level right how does not uh jump out the car and put john through the freaking telephone pole because he's upset about what he told the guardians he's not upset about uh like like him taking the ring all of that all the nonsense that they've been through over the last four episodes he's not mad about any of that in fact he respects him he's upset that he did not tell uh that he's upset john how's upset that john did not tell him about zoe that's it yeah that's the whole thing everything else he's like hey man the game is the game you know i would have done it i was i was thinking about it but the fact that you knew that zoe was a manhunter and that's why we're here in the first place to do that find out who the manhunter is so that they don't blow up however long it takes and you didn't tell me that after all of that nah bruh you don't deserve this ring you don't deserve to be a green lantern the whole thing that we've been like we've been talking about it for four episodes and how much uh how sucks and how much ridiculous the one thing that he is dedicated to is being a green lantern and and doing it even if it's his way even it's the worst way he is still the man right and so when he finds out that john knew that zoe was a manhunter for how long and he did not communicate that to him that's the breaking point it's trust i would not if my partner knew that he suspected that this woman was a manhunter i'm like how can i trust you now okay so let's beautifully stated let's talk about the remedy to that he jumps out of the car and we'll find out next episode but he jumps out of the car at a high rate of speed right after finding out you know there's been some erosion in the trust between these two characters there was the hearing of the recording to where he realizes that like he was supposed to take the green lantern ring from him it's one thing he cares about more than anything but then it was also the zoe thing now after this he jumps out of the car at a high rate of speed and the car goes into a pole either we're gonna find out that he was depending on the airbag to deploy and save stewart's life or guys he was trying to kill him he doesn't know if he could try all right we gotta be real though you have to think about this if anybody can be a manhunter and your partner is like i knew this person was a manhunter i don't know how far this shit fucking runs like i don't know like because also how what is uh john said when look i was gonna give back the ring to hell he's just like oh i trusted you i gave you the ring i don't know if he was gonna give that you can't prove that you were going to because he did give it back he did give it back that's that and that's the that's the like yeah he asked for it he asked for it again that's very true they took it from him but he was gonna do what he was gonna do he had a long time to do it to do it he could have said the oath stopped the thing from burrowing and dropped a hundred pounds of fucking soil on top of him exactly like he he did give him a gun and he just don't use it the one time but he's like hell nah if his if his goal is to kill you you give him the gun and he don't shoot you i get it but i really don't like so i think what you guys just said is really interesting so he killed him because he cannot trust him not as a partner but he can't trust that he's a part of the overall conspiracy is what you guys are saying yeah now i mean i can see that i mean you mentioned it like tried to kill him tried to kill him yeah because then he does the same thing in the first episode yeah but he leaves the ring he leaves the ring he don't leave the ring this time this is like actually like yo i think because it's because he can't trust him to get the job done yeah that's what it's all about for how to whatever end is to solve to get the job done in terms of like who the manhunter is now that i'm actually thinking about if we go back dog the the fucking guardian was talking to john like that main oak clip hey i want you to use that i want you to use that you know man no no no no no like how is i mean what what else does i have nothing right yeah again hey man it's cool that they were skilled hey all that i'm not worried about none of that that's what the guardians do the guardians love playing those games i met i can't even imagine the conversations i was having with the guardians about sinestro man right like that kind of stuff he knows what kind of games they play what it came down to for him was brother we have a job to do if you're gonna be a green lantern brother you gotta but do it if you think about it how like i think this episode situates where how alone how is how is not updating the guardians he does not tell anybody he doesn't even tell john that he's going to visit sinestro so at this point he even looked up carrie to be like were you alive and around blah so already how is being like i don't know if i can trust anyone because he knows more about the man hunters than anybody else that at this point is not you got to remember at the end of episode two when uh like you get like how he sends him back he comes back he's assaulted by the other aliens and john is like kind of on his last wits end but he still tells how about the plot to come there and blow up brushville if they don't find the manor without 48 hours right and so like i think that's even there and then he goes out fluff to go see sinestro even there you can see like okay they're coming together there's trust there he's finding it okay john might actually be somebody who may be worthy of this responsibility for him to go and not tell him about zoe yeah that's like but think but you can't do that but think about what happens just before he jumps out of the car he actually calls him and has him set the meeting up with those guys right before he jumps out of the car yeah so he wants to go and check those guys out he just doesn't want stewart to come with him right he wants to do it by himself which tells me that now his level of trust to you guys's point has absolutely plummeted but unless the next episode begins and there's a line in the show somewhere and the line is hey i knew you'd just be you you'd be fine passengers decide airbag like unless that is airbag like the airbag saved his life this nigga's dead are you nuts yeah or you were wearing your seat belt or whatever an hour into a pole or you're wearing your seat belt like i went on collision i mean we i mean again we too mad to talk about this off air but the first time you see that i was like did he just he tried to he tried to kill him i wouldn't know that was a point in the college racist column for the people who that is but to put a button on it for but he needs him sidelined either through or through serious serious injury like concussion and we have not seen that before maybe we saw it in the first episode but that point he had the ring in this point he is punishing him so that's a pretty severe punishment and it tells me that he doesn't just not trust him he thinks that he might be the enemy yeah they i know we got some of our people in that room if the next episode don't start with through the wire hey is he gonna be able to go to the special hospital where they got all of the fucking nobody they don't know how to use it by himself but they got the high-tech fucking shit so he's gonna be okay even because i know we're wrapping up once again the thing that i keep wondering about rushville and i can't tell if this is a budgetary concern if this is just how they wrote it when john goes to get the scope in the gun are these people racist against black people or these man hunters who are just like because they're like oh you green lanterns buddy we this show is doing a very interesting thing where we never see people from the town really and whenever we do see them they hate how and they hate john and i keep you bring up the like oh if he goes to the hospital i'm like rushville's not a real town right we have not seen any who's a character that is not related to the makings that we have seen be anything more than an npc have we met have we met the bartender of the rushville thing right well have we i mean like i understand what i'm saying have we really met we've seen people in rushville get mad because he continues to play the song which would denote humanity annoyance would denote humanity but we haven't really met outside of our principles good old smokestack johnson yeah that that that kind of runs the thing like that yeah because even that character even that would like deepen our affinity for the town right it would put some like oh we want this town to be saved it's not the it's not the wire where it's just like even if they're not the central characters they're just like you have the flavor of people orlando yeah like we don't have that in the show we don't have that in the show almost like we're not supposed to actually care what happens to the town i mean because we know it's going to get blown up but every time they're talking about somebody doesn't all get blown up because their son is still playing high school football sure so the school must still be there but there's like a big yeah they say i'm still there but like to the larger point every single time we see like people talking like in episode two when he walks into the uh the hall and he was like oh you guys are talking about me right every time they're always talking about the yeah that's all they can talk about it's so it's interesting it's all you can talk about it because that's all they fucking have to talk about because other than that is aliens shit so all right before we end i think we do need to bring back manhunter rankings uh right before we do that though okay because we should end on that but before we do that john uh how good you know kind of the worst dude also a liar he was like i would never mack on a married woman he's that's that's brother wrong answer he was he was proud to put the moves on carry all episode man he's been trying to put the moves on carry he all fuck his hey i can't i can't remember episode two well you know i got a shaky marriage oh your marriage is on the road yeah that's a dirty mack and king right there i mean he was like i would never forsake the matrimonial bond then he go he hold her hand in episode he said i get why he ditched those bangs i see you have no it's fine dirty something just popped in my head well we haven't looked at the relationship between han and luke different if luke was black absolutely the way han be treating luke like the little nigga especially in the first one right but wait just think about this because this is kind of the conversation black so so if luke is black leia is black huh so if luke is black leia also has oh yeah so we got a we got a de niro situation but you got to imagine how not only how he was treating a luke but how he was treating uh leia yeah and i first joined nah you can't nah you can't do that man if if if if they was black they was the black twins if that was was that 1977 so you know whoever is out there doing their thing in 77 if luke if they're like who is it different it's got to be different absolutely we probably would have been calling solo solo a lot of that but isn't it isn't the original star wars trilogy like the most progressive thing that's ever been made i mean it can't be the most progressive thing that's ever been like yeah because here's the thing we look at that job different because once he got he enslaves leia we like damn oh the job but in the slave why you why she got to be a slave now would you judge your white homies if they're getting a slave would you judge your white homies if they're getting a slave if they're getting a slave if they're getting a slave turned on by Black Leia being in the slave house. It would be totally different. It's totally different. Slave Leia would take on such a worse connotation. You can't even say slave Leia. Can you imagine Anakin? Oh no! Black Anakin would be not on. Because you know, I'd be cheering. That's some Django shit. Because Black Anakin going King Von on all the same people. He'd be the man. You know what I'm saying? Does that make fucking Dirk Obi-Wan? Y'all ain't slide it. Hey man, yo boy! Hey man, free everybody. Well, not everybody. But. But it's just, because when you think about this relationship, the kid stuff, all the stuff, it just, when you put that dynamic in there, it feels different. Oh, man. Like SEC football. All right, now. Manhunter rankings. So, Manhunter rankings. All right, Manhunter rankings. What were they last time? I feel like last time we had Kerry at number one. Kerry was number one. What are Manhunter rankings? It was Kerry, Zoe. We had. We didn't have the Guardian on the board. No, no, no. We had Sheriff Kerry, Zoe Macon, Billy Macon, Noah Macon, and Willie Macon. So, Noah is the kid, and at five, we had, like, Big Macon. Right. All right. So, I don't know if I believe Hal. I think, whatchamacallit, Kerry should still be on the board. We got to move her down, though. Yeah. No, we're going to move her down. But he's like, oh, I looked you up. You were somebody before this. And I was just like, Hal, if you think about this, the fucking Manhunter has been on Earth since you got the fucking ring. Right. You don't think that that was done as a narrative technique to rule her out, though? Oh, I do think. But I was just, like, knowing Lindelof, that motherfucker a little slippery. So, I think I would put, if we're starting at five, maybe Kerry's at five now. Not the kid. I put the kid. I mean, we're taking the kid off the board? No. Kid's always on the board. Kid stays on the board. Because we haven't seen him in a while. Kid stays in the picture. Yeah, kid's like, okay. Macon is five, actually. I don't think it's Macon. Macon is five. Yeah, Macon is five. Macon is five? That's too obvious. It's too obvious. Nah, but are we putting, okay. Because he's a human that's got his life saved. So, he's like a zealot to whatever. But are we putting the Guardian on the board? Sure. So, then we have to take somebody off the board. Unless we divide it to six. I would be willing to take Macon off the board. I would take Macon off the board. I would take Macon or Kerry off the board. I'm taking the kid off the board. No, the kid is still on the board. Why? We haven't seen him in three episodes. That's why. By the way, I almost think that Jason Ritter's character should be on the board, too. What the fuck is this? We're keeping him on the board. It's between Macon and the kid. I'd say we take the kid off the board. Take Macon and the kid off the board. But Kerry, okay, cool. You know what? You really think Kerry is just off, off, off? I don't know. I feel like they went out of their way to tell us that Kerry wasn't the man. But you got to remember, A, they did the thing where it's like, you were in Gotham, this and that. Right. And Hal has been spending, spent four episodes, you can't get close to nobody, can't like nobody. All this and that. And he's holding her hand and all that. And she is at the end. Maybe she's the Manhunter. Maybe they left and let the Manhunters have their own time. But also, maybe Kerry could have been killed and a Manhunter replaced her. I don't mind keeping her on the list. I do think we should move her down. Okay, so if we're putting somebody on the board, then we have to take the kid off the board. We got to take the kid off the board. I don't believe, I think that's still in the running. I think the kid is still in the running. Do you think there's even a chance that Macon's a Manhunter? I don't think so. I don't. I don't think so. To Steve's point, because he's a. He's a zealot. Like, he was saved by Zoe and blah, blah, blah. But this whole thing is aliens bad. Boo, we don't like. Let's vote. Let's vote. Who are we taking off the board? Macon? I vote for Macon. All right, we can take Macon off the board. We can take Macon off the board. So then who's five? The kid. I'll put the kid at five. All right, kid's five. Four, Kerry. Yeah. Three between Zoe, the Manhunter, or who are we forgetting? You mean the Guardian? The Guardian, sorry. I think Zoe's at three because, like, she definitely. Zoe's at three. I think that you convinced me that the Guardian should be at the two or one spot. I think the Guardian's two. I put Zoe at two. No, I put Zoe at. I put Zoe at one because they. I put Zoe at one, the Guardian at two. Right. And then Billy at three. That's fair. Okay. Yeah, I like that. So run it down quick for social. So one, we got Zoe. Two, we have the Guardian. Three is Billy. Four is Sheriff Cameron. And five, we have Noah, the kid. Now, let me say something. Okay. Noah was brought up almost for no reason in this episode. What do you mean? That's his grandma. That's his grandma. That's Noah's grandma. Just to remind us. That Noah is here. That's why Noah needs to stay on the board. Just to remind us that Noah's here and Noah saving his grandma would be a big deal. Guys. I'm calling my shot. What if Noah goes. Goes off to college or whatever. He plays at, I don't know, Florida State or something. And he's like a prodigy. And he's like the one manhunter that got away. Oh, my God. Noah going crazy. Christian McCaffrey. All right, cool. Fantastic episode. We cooking. Like, these are some real fun episodes. Great. Very, very fun episode. Fantastic episode. The show continues to do something that is interesting, which is bring not all of it, but bring a lot. A lot of the feeling back to Sunday night on HBO. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. This is a show that's working. People are into it. It's causing a lot of conversation, a lot of fucking beef. I've heard that. Is it true that the season two writers room for Lanterns is already kind of like together? Cooking up? Were we greenlit for season two? I didn't even know that. I don't know. I was seeing rumors. Maybe this is some fake ass shit. But. Was it? Final. If there's a season two for Lanterns, would you like them to follow the. The anthology-like method that True Detective does, where. It's more. It's two different Lanterns? It's either two different Lanterns or a completely different mystery. I love that. Who would the Lanterns be? Vanessa Baden-Kelly. Think about it. Could be fun. Jessica Cruz, baby. Because here's the thing. Because I don't think Hal is dead either. So do you bring. Do you partner Hal with someone else? Do you partner John with someone else? Is it too different? I tell you what. If James Gunn's too involved, that squirrel's coming back hard. Nah, it's a squirrel. Man, fuck that squirrel. It's a squirrel, whatever. Okay. Monday, guys. Remember, the House of R continues their Lantern coverage. They're going deep, deep, deep on Lanterns. On Wednesday, Ring of Quest Part 2 drops. Support Ring of Quest right now. Go watch it. Turn this off. You don't want to stop hanging out with us. You want to hang out with the whole crew. Go watch and listen to Ring of Quest. On Friday, Bud Mash gives their reactions to Wolverine. Just got to say it now. We asked for Wolverine codes so that we could play the game. They played us. They played us. Michael Lindbergh said. Played us. Cash, gas, or ass, nobody rides for free. That's not. He was like, if you want these Wolverine codes, you got to come on Bud Mash and talk about it. And guess what? I respect it. I would love for all the Midnight Boys to make an appearance together on Bud Mash to talk about the Wolverine game. They're going to give us Grand Theft Auto codes? We got to talk about it. Got to talk about it. Cash, gas. Cash, gas, or ass, man. Nobody rides for free. That's what Big Cut Lindbergh said. Jesus Christ. He could. But on Friday, he's going to give his reactions to Wolverine. So you guys are going to be able to. That's a very, very important game. Everybody's talking about it. So make sure you tune in to Bud Mash. It's going to get overshadowed probably, but. Make sure you tune in to Bud Mash. Wait. Is it not? By Grand Theft Auto? Yeah. That's why it's releasing so early. Yeah. Yeah. But our producers today are Devin Baroldi, CT. Shout out to CT. Jamie Yukich. Join me at dinner on social. Hashtag throw your hands in the air. That's from the last show. An additional production from Arjuna Ramgopal. Chuck, take us out. We love fucking robots. Oh, that box. We can taste it. And unfortunately, Han Solo might be racist. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Home of the Save. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills. But it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for a 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Rager than 50 gigabytes can be slow when network is busy. See terms.