'Lanterns' Episode 4 Deep Dive

Greetings, and welcome to House of R. Yeah. A Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin. Joining me today to remind me that I better start doodling Junior. Junior. Junior. It's Joanna Robinson. Which one of us is a squirrel inside of this Green Lantern Corps, do you think? I mean, you are the number one squirrel girl enthusiast that I know. So I did think of you right away. That's true. And I am fond of a nut. I like a nut too. Yeah. I like a nut too. Okay. What's your favorite kind of nut? Almond. I like an almond as well. Delicious. Raw. Unroasted. Unsalted. Give it to me raw. Unroasted. I was just going to say the same thing. We are here to dive deep into Lanterns, episode four, right after this. Observe. The North American dad, 50s, great polo collection. He enters his vehicle information on Carvana. An offer appears in minutes. Remarkable. He squints, reads it again, smiles and says, dang, that's a good offer. The highest form of approval. No haggling. No hassle. No one called him boss. He's still on the couch. Astonishing. Sell your car today on Carvana.com. Pickup fees may apply. This episode is brought to you by The Home Depot. Black Friday is happening now at The Home Depot and they've got just the tree for your style, space and budget. Make the holidays merry and bright with artificial trees starting at $49. Then make it your own with ornaments and trimmings for every holiday style. Find your perfect tree at the number one Christmas tree retailer and get low prices guaranteed on all your festive favorites at The Home Depot. Exclusions apply. Visit homedepot.com slash price match for details. Okay, programming reminders. Hell yeah. Lanterns on Mondays. Correct. That's the hope. I have an upcoming vacation. We'll see if that impacts anything. But even then, I think we'll manage to do Mondays. We'll figure it out. Yeah. Buffy. Season five, part one at long last, already up. Hell yeah. Season five, part two. Coming later this week. Imminent. On the horizon. That's one of the most anticipated Buffy pods yet. I mean, for the two of us. Hopefully for other people too. People seem really excited about part one. People seem to really love season five. So yeah, part two of season five is very important and we will talk about it. Can't wait. Joanna, how can everybody follow along? Oh my God. I'm so glad you asked. Yeah. Listen, what if they just subscribe to this podcast? What if that's something they did? It's a great idea. What if they followed us on social at houseofourpod on Instagram? Mallory has told me that she might. Fang herself up. Yes. For an Instagram post later this week. I intended to do it last week and didn't mold the fangs. But once you do, we will have matching molded fangs. What part of your body will you let me bite for an Instagram photo? Literally any. And we haven't even gotten through the intro and they have their first quote card item. Great. At houseofourpod on social to see where Mallory decides to bite me with her new fangs. Follow our journey. Officeanddragons.gmail.com. The inbox is always open. As we mentioned on the Buffy pod last week, we are pre-recording this. It's Labor Day weekend. So we are recording this in advance. So we will not have your reaction emails to episode four, though we will read them before we record episode five. So just in case you're like, hey man, I had said something really brilliant about that. I bet you did, but I didn't get to read it. So I will look for it later. Thank you so much. But the inbox is always open for all your takes. Spoiler warning. Yeah. Hell yeah. Same as it's been for Lanterns, right? If it happened in this episode of television, the weenie, episode four, the weenie, then it'll come up today. We're going through the whole episode in chronological order. If it's happened to this point in the HBO Sunday night television program Lanterns, it might come up today. If it's happened in the comics, how are we approaching that, Joanna? Yeah, there's like a few sort of hot button issues that we're reserving for a spoiler section, I guess. We're calling it like sort of speculation comics lore section at the end. We don't have one today. Yeah. So don't worry about it. So this spoiler warning was not something we needed to share today. But keep it in mind for a week from now. Sometimes we do. So we'll let you know. Great stuff. Okay. I believe those are the programming reminders. Those are the spoiler warnings. Those are the follow along how to's. Yes. It's time for the opening snapshot. Episode for the weenie. Fifty two minutes directed by Gita Vasant Patel. Hot D. How's the dragon? There we go. Gita. Exciting stuff. That was a thrill. Written by Brianna Gibson. Joanna, give me. Who worked on Penguin. That's right. A show we loved. And according to IMDb, though, IMDb is often unreliable about future stuff, but it's supposed to be working on The Chain, which is Damon Lindelof's next project. So if that's true. Nice. Someone who was impressive enough in the lanterns. There's room to sort of be brought over to Damon's next project. You love to hear it. You love to know it. On the Penguin front. Yes. And a couple listeners emailed us about this. Did you see the Kelly MacDonald interview where she talked about how she was watching the Penguin to sort of prep for her Gotham centric character and that she based some of her accent on that, but then had to tone it down because she was doing it like too much and had to like calm it down. And I was like, is that what that is? Ah, she's trying to do Boyd like she's trying to do what Colin Farrell is doing in the Penguin. I'm going to need. But flattened out with a Nebraska couple years in Nebraska. I'm going to need a little bit of like a tail of the tape forensic analysis of that claim. There's this guy, one of my favorite creators who is, I don't know, linguist. I don't know exactly what his qualifications are, but he breaks down cinematic accents. I love it. I really need him to do a deep dive. I don't know what Kelly MacDonald's doing here in this show. But anyway, let's call it Gotham with the edges sanded off by Nebraska. Okay. This was an interesting episode because this is a very Sheriff Carrie centric episode where again, some amazing stories, some amazing beats, the zingers with Carrie and Hal, wonderful. And then some, some real accent stumpers. But overall, aside from accent corner, Joanna, how did you feel about this episode of television episode four? And because episode four is somehow already the midway mark of season one of Lanterns. How are you feeling about the season overall at the halfway point here? I can't believe we're through half of it. The fuck? Someday the passage of time will make sense to you, but it is not this day. It is not this day. I loved this episode. I thought this episode was amazing. I thought this was a fantastic episode. And it's really interesting. You know, we get the re-mention of the ticking clock. In this episode, right? 36 hours. So it's interesting to think about, and you know, we're, it's a day and a night. We're through a night, right? So less than that on the ticking clock. So we have not had the advantage of seeing the next time on trailer. So we don't know what's coming next week. But if the clock runs out next in next week's episode, then what is the rest of the season? Is the rest of the season still in 2016? Are we going to get more of that flash? You know, like, are we going to be hopping around in time more? Like, what, how is it all going to sort of roll out? I'm not ready to say goodbye to Kyle Chandler. I'll tell you that much right now. No. Boy, was this a great Kyle Chandler episode and a wonderful Aaron Pierre episode. They're just so good together. The water tower recon scene between Hal and John was just so delightful. Wedge watch was off the charts. Yes. Like, absolutely out of control in terms of like everyone trying to drive a wedge between these two guys, which means that we are rooting so hard for them to figure it out. Yes. And a pal of mine who's a listener was talking to me about last week's episode and the way in which Hal is dropped in at the end of the episode and how much he loved that idea of like, how sort of like being a charming asshole is something that we've been like enjoying whatever. But the way that he drops in at the end of episode three, and it's just like so much more rancid than it's ever felt before, which we which we noted, but just sort of like if it had been Hal. Throughout the episode, it would have felt different than just like dropping Hal in at the end and just that like Midwest Huxtable shit that he says and all the sort of stuff like that. But I'm like rooting for his better angel to come through always, you know, and and then he he crashes a car that our guy John is in into, you know, telephone pole and like without any regard as you know, as as we got an episode one without any regard. To whether or not that would be a fatal crash. I mean, we know it's not sorry about the rental. We know it's not. But like that could have killed him. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I saw caught stealing. That's that's what happens in that movie. Damn spoiler. It's not God. It's not the point of that movie at all. The point of that movie is baseball, right? Sure. There's a lot of carrying a bat in the trailer. There is. But yeah, I mean, that could be. We know it's not because we've seen the flash forward, but like that could have easily been fatal. So how do we feel about our guy Hal, like, you know? Possibly killing our guy, John. Obviously terrible. We've gotten some key canon insights inside of this episode to why all of the rooms in the hospital are open. So maybe Hal is just like plenty of available. No, Hal's an asshole, as he concedes. And as many people observe in this episode, I thought it was just an incredibly propulsive and entertaining episode. It was a great one for the character dynamics. This was once again a very funny, kind of crisp episode in terms of the banter. And it was obviously a big episode for moving the story forward on the lore front in terms of what we learn, in terms of what characters share. Kind of a lot of theory corner fodder. We get some big reveals, but still have questions. I'm really relieved that Zoe is seemingly like revealed as the Manhunter. That's what seems like the conclusion at the end of this episode. And like, but the only Manhunter? Exactly. We don't know. The Manhunter or a Manhunter? A Manhunter. Great, great question. Yeah. I think that like. Just asking questions. Yeah. I love it. I love when you ask questions. But I think that like that's a relief to me because it was feeling kind of obvious. Yeah. Especially like midway through this episode. I was like, if they don't reveal it at the end of this episode, it's going to be really annoying to sort of like be so far ahead of the show. And the show's like, don't worry. We're with you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are there some mailbags that we should hit before we get into the deep dive? Yes. Really quickly. And then one long one. One listener wrote in to help you out. You did not have one of your classic, that's what I would say, to Kyle Chandler lines in last week's episode. So one of our listeners wrote in to help you. Towards the end of the episode, Hal asked Junior if he's coming. Interestingly enough, that's what I'd like Kyle Chandler to ask me. Strong same. Okay. I feel like the listener is like horny on your bit. I feel just seen, known, and understood. Great. Our listener Nicole asked, quick question for non-comic book reader. Can women be lanterns? The main question I came away from. Episode three with was, why wasn't Bernadette a candidate? She seems better suited than John Sr. in many ways. So we've mentioned it before, but Jessica Cruz is in the comics, the first female human lantern. 2014, Jeff Johns and Ethan Van Sciver created her. Jessica Cruz is a really interesting lantern. We've had a lot of people write in about her. But we did get a lot of emails from listeners being like, hey, Bernadette. Seemed like she would have been a really cool candidate for lanternhood. Or do we think actually the ring was trying to find her and she just happened to be like, out of the room. Gotta go check on the kids. You know, how accurate is that ring in terms of like seeking out who it's looking for or whatever. But I thought that was interesting. But the answer to Nicole's question is, there is at least one human female in the comics. Heather wrote in to say, as a budding bird nerd, which is just a really fun thing to say, I had to look up the weird blue jay looking bird that was watching John intensely in episode three. It turns out that the bird used in the episode was a black-throated magpie jay, which is native to Mexico. It could just be an aesthetic or availability choice. But using that bird gives credence to the idea that the Guardians really did use birds to watch John. If the Stewart house was truly in the Midwest, there's no way a bird native to Mexico that doesn't migrate north would be showing up in their backyard. Where are you on bird watch? Open? Open? I think the fact that they appear so many times does make it plausible that the Guardians are checking in. I think certainly it's more likely that the Guardians are keeping tabs on all of their candidates than just abdicating any sort of level of awareness or scouting responsibility for decades on end, given the haste with which Liana was like, here's my opening. I'm ready to make a move. Right? Eager. That said. That said, the idea that we all navigate our lives with some level of confirmation bias and see what we want to see also feels very interesting and appealing, especially with this character set. And so I'm open. I love a bird. As you know, I've just been really interested in hummingbirds recently. They're just absolutely fascinating and majestic. I get so delighted when I see one. Also, as you know, I once saw a pigeon with you on the streets of Chicago and pointed at it and said nature. So I'm always thinking about birds as well. I liked when we got to see this. I liked when we got to see the sketches in John's room that there was like a little bird. He's still birding. Little bird foot right there. He's still doing bird stuff and mommy issues stuff for sure. Our listener Pat wrote in to underline the idea of how early the Guardians had buyer's remorse on Hal. Like when they go to visit Bernadette, that's like just after the ring chose Hal. So it's not that the whole thing with Sinestro is what made them unhappy. That Hal was the Green Lantern. They were unhappy right away with Hal Jordan. So that's just something to think about. Yeah, I guess. I think that there are potentially other interpretations that that's certainly possible. Why do you think Liana would show up with a diamond and be like because they were she was on the like. I mean, I think that the possibility of just a larger need to control what is happening on Earth independent of any specific flaw with Hal. Maybe there's enough early to clock. We're not going to be able to get this guy to do what we want. He's a little too much of a rogue. And so given the theory corner stuff, obviously, about, you know, what we've already heard from Anton in episode two with John and the way that John and Hal themselves start theorizing then about the crash and I've been sir and the Manhunter. Right. What level of involvement did the Guardians have in that and why? And these are not questions that we have answers to at this point. So what exactly from the Guardians perspective is the risk of whatever has unfolded? In Rushville. I mean, there's just obvious Manhunter answer to that. Right. Manhunter who escaped is a risk to the Guardians. But so the need to say we have to spin this out and be prepared for whatever the future holds. Now, this backwater planet that we never intended to have a lantern at all has a lantern. We better make sure that we control who that lantern is in the future. I think there's a version of it that's more just like future proofing. OK, so they're just sort of like just having a human lantern at all makes us nervous. Yeah. And like, let's get our. Arms around how that functions since it's a new thing and make sure because control is so central to how they operate that it's something that they can guide. But maybe just right away. They're like, oh, this is not going to work for us. OK. I don't know. Interesting. OK. And then we get a long email from our listener, Grant, that I am not going to read in full, but I am going to read a lot of it. And I will say Grant is a listener that I know very well from. The Lost podcast day. So this is very much the reason I'm going to read this in full. It's so up our alley because it's about chosen ones across like sort of Lindelof properties and sort of what the larger conceit is in terms of the story we're telling here. Right. So this is what Grant says. Whether or not they meant to as Outcast wasn't written by Damon Lindelof, it gave off strong John Locke and Daniel Faraday vibes. Think back to the last episode, Cabin Fever, where we see that Richard Alpert is present at the birth of John Locke, then visits him as a boy. Administering a test for whether or not he was worthy to be chosen. He was not. Alpert was only taking the word of a time traveling John who seemed to have answers. Though John's whole life turned out to be a con by one of the island's godlike beings, the smoke thing. And also think of Daniel Faraday's mother, Eloise, who turned her son away from his interest in music to focus on studying physics, which doomed him to his destiny, something of which she was well aware. Similarly, John Stewart has been chosen for a destiny his mother visited by an ageless godlike being who challenged him. She checks in from time to time. Is it a con to force John into a destiny he doesn't want? I'm also thinking of The Leftovers, where Kevin Garvey comes to believe that he has been chosen since he survived the trials of the Hotel Underworld and International Assassin. And then Grant goes on to talk about this idea of International Assassin as like this ultimate, one of the best episodes of television ever, Leftovers episode. But this ultimate idea of like this male power fantasy and how like what is what is us being? A superhero or if not a male power fantasy. And then he goes on to say even Kevin Garvey at the end rejects the chosen one narrative in favor of love. And he feared love because you have to be weak with another person. You have to be vulnerable. You have to become small rather than seeing yourself as an international assassin or the most powerful man in the world. John Locke sought love his whole life. And that need was why his father could con him and exploit him. Daniel Faraday felt a twisted kind of love from his mother who forced him onto a path. He didn't. He didn't particularly want that resulted in his death. It was interesting to me to hear both Carrie's and Waylon's analysis of Hal Jordan in the pilot. Quote, he's not fearless. He's lonely, says Carrie. And quote, you want to die, Hal Jordan, says Waylon, the alien. Hal leads a loveless life. So has John. Love is interesting in the context of the Green Lantern mythos as it's typically in the purview of the star sapphires. We haven't seen a Carol Ferris yet. Hal's constant love interest. The original star sapphire. We may or may not meet her, but seeing Hal's empty living quarters and the constant assholish posturing. God, I love this character. It's easy to see that he keeps everyone at arm's length. I wonder if the rest of the season we'll see Hal and John become for each other what they couldn't find in anyone else. Love, empathy, or if they'll simply spiral deeper into fear and loathing. I mean, we hear Hal talk about this directly multiple times in this episode. You know, we have a great tunneling. underground into the Macon Ranch sequence. where John and Hal both learn new things about each other and we hear Hal engage with this idea, right, about no ties, why it's easier and better to have no ties. And then in the first of the car rides, just talking about loss and grief. And in a way, as we'll get to when we go through those scenes, I thought made it pretty clear that he was describing a very specific loss and not just the loss of the parents that he has obviously told us about, including inside of this episode, but perhaps the loss of a love. So yeah, it feels like all of those specific experiences with grief and distance in different forms are specifically fueling what Hal presents to John in this episode as, I thought one of the more authentic bits of let me actually try to give you, like impart some wisdom and mentor you actively with a real thing that I believe and have learned. And so it was like, so tragic that that was the thing that he shared born out of his experience. It was really, really heart-wrenching. Okay, great emails as always. Let's get to the episode four, deep dive. Okay, deep dive. We start this episode right where we ended episode two. We pick back up with Hal and Sinestro. Hal is, visiting his former mentor in space prison, authorizing the visit with his voice, his name, so surely tipping off the guardians to his presence there and presumably being aware that they would know that he was there, which is interesting to think about given what we hear in this episode from between Liana and John about the breaking of the oath by making the visit. But it's very weird that Liana's like, I just do not believe that they do not have surveillance on this cell. Yeah. Yeah. So do you feel like it was a test for John or just to see whether or not Hal told him anything? There's no way. Yeah. Unless they're really bad at their job. That they don't have. That they don't have cameras and an audio recording on Sinestro. I mean, I think especially in this episode where we are prompted to think about the fact that our characters are probably being recorded everywhere they are because the Hector, not Hammond, but Gutierrez character is like, I've been recording everything that you guys have been doing in this motel. Let me play what John said. What John said about you, Hal. Awkward. You know, that's there because of the effect it has on the characters in that scene and subsequently, but it's also there to make us think who's listening to them anywhere they are. The fact that this is a like guardian facility makes it, I think, impossible that they're not recording him. So yeah, I processed it similarly to the, I mean, who knows, but I think it's more likely that it's akin to the gray wolf test during the interview where like our deduction was that they know about Hal Jordan and his involvement in all of that and have all the particulars and that Liana was just seeing what John would reveal to her. And this feels maybe of a piece. That said, she did seem nervous. So the idea that like there's something that she does not have access to is possible, but also certainly just that the whole like rekindling of that bond, which she fears. We also have questions about how Sinestro knows what he knows. Yes. You know, like how does he know about John Stewart, et cetera. And so like, is it possible that they don't have surveillance on him? That would be insane. That would be crazy. That would be very bad presenting. Do you have any theories for how the news that Hal has a trainee, my trainee has a trainee, actually reached Sinestro? Like, is somebody feeding him information? Does he have an ability to access intel somehow from afar? Is it an active delivery or retrieval? Or is there some vulnerability somewhere that like allows him to just know this thing? And then like, on the sort of Ben Linus from Lost comp that we made before, it's just sort of like, he seems, you know, if we're using that comp that this is a character and we see him play Hal like a fiddle inside of this exchange. So like, he seems like someone who could at any moment get a guard. I don't know what the guard system is like there, but like if it's not just digital robot guards, but actual like creatures, could he have convinced, you know, seduced mentally, emotionally, a guard there to give him information or this, that, or the other thing? I don't know. Like, but I feel like the possibilities are wide open with someone like Sinestro. Yeah. And how much is his, because so much of this episode and the season so far is about the power of manipulation. That comes into active play in the discussion at the end of the episode about what the Manhunter does and like how people prey upon tough look for my guy, John. Weakness. But what was interesting about it is then you can apply, there were so many moments in this episode that were about a person, but you could apply to the entire character. So, you know, as you think about like, well, who else might that, who else might we be able to like put that on? On the Wedge Watch front, you know, this is interesting too. It's like, is somebody else who is seeking to put a wedge between Hal and John feeding this information to Sinestro, anticipating that Hal will seek him out? Like the Guardians. Ooh. So you feel like the Guardians could be using Sinestro to like whisper into Hal's ear to further the divide between. Like they, they obviously are like afraid of Hal because of Sinestro who killed one of them. So the idea of them being in any way in cahoots is nuts. However, Guardian hubris of saying like my enemy can be my pawn, at least intriguing to me. I think that's a possibility. Who the fuck knows? Sinestro asks where the Guardians found John. And throughout the early parts of this exchange, there's a lot of like, who cares who gives a fuck stuff from Hal? I thought that, I mean, the entire Sinestro performance was, I thought riveting, just incredible. Well, the, I care, Hal. I, I care. There was something that was so just like mesmerizing and gripping in the delivery. And as we think about the history, which we've heard multiple characters describe, Carrie to Hal in the hospital, John recounting what he knows when Liana asked him in the interview, et cetera. We've not glimpsed any of this directly, right? The master apprentice relationship between Sinestro and Hal. Anyway. I don't know what happened with, with Sinestro and the Guardians exactly. Like we have the, and you know, this conversation, the incredible, like, is that how you fooled me? Hal himself is still trying to understand what happened. Right? And so the moments of actually getting to hear Sinestro say, I care. And like, we know that he has staged a coup against the Guardians and killed one of them. We're just now getting to access directly from his perspective for the first time, that venom, really potent and exciting. I just love the way he said it. Like, um, because Hal hopped to when he said that, when he said, I care. He's saying, you know what the priority in this conversation is? My needs, my priorities. I care. So you answer. And then Hal answered him, which is just sort of like, so revealing, obviously about their dynamic and about the way in which Sinestro has trained him. Yeah. Both like in his power set, but also just sort of like to heal, you know? And so, and when we think about Hal is this like, wounded guy who lost his life, lost his dad. We've talked about this before. And Sinestro stepping in and taking advantage of the, of that vulnerability and that wound to, um, you know, have this warped dynamic with Hal. And at the same time, I'm still holding onto my Sinestro was right mug, um, until further information was revealed. Of course. Because I mean, I'm so anti the Guardians. Yes, for sure. Maybe they're all wrong, but yes, it's hard to in any way empathize with the Guardians, certainly. And I think like, especially because of, you know, Hal is pushing and challenging, but, we have heard so often him talk about how, including in this conversation, John is just obsessed with following commands, the chain of command, following orders. So the fact that we see that kind of like almost on instinct response from Hal, even though he is challenging, but kind of then still does it. They found him in the Marines. Yeah. Fascinating to watch. Um, two things on that moment. One, of course they did not find him in the Marines. We know that, but to just be confronted overtly with the limit of Hal's awareness, about the history between John and the Guardians, very painful to confront. Right. I also just loved that this was when Sinestro got up and walked toward Hal and they're looking at each other through the, you know, the kind of like portal, like there's a, a, a, like a quality, some sort of magical barrier there, but they can see each other. It's very like, Oh, we want to do all the fates like waiting to get to Qui-Gon Amal sort of thing. But it also looked like there was a kind of mirror, like, quality because it's, it's translucent, right? And so different. You and I have that, especially because the show has gone out of its way to give us framings like that with the interrogation scene and things like that. We get that standing just across from each other. And it's like, are you looking at a version of yourself? The way that, that, um, in Silence of the Lambs, Hannah Lecter and Clarice are shot with that plexi between them. That happens a lot where you see a reflection of one in the shot of the other. And I ask once again, where is Migs? Hmm. You know, who is the Migs of this space prison? It is something to think about. Uh, we get the great line that we had seen in all of the trailers, you know, cause Hal is clapping back, but then Sinestro moves him with a real quickness into that. Then say what he actually is. My replacement. We cut to John. We'll talk about John when we get to the, the John scenes. We're going to stick with this Sinestro scene. So we come back to it. And Hal is like, I'm, Sinestro's just like, you're going to have to kill him. Just outright says, there's no subtlety here. There's no incepting in this moment. It's just, "You're gonna have to kill this guy." Hey, I'm not evil. The murder stuff, that's your department, right? And Sinestro says, no, you're not evil. You're just, what's that word you're searching for? Old. What's that word you're fighting? Fighting. Old, which I just think is, like, I mean, it's a hilariously harsh burn. Experienced, right? He says, like, different. But the idea that Sinestro, it reminds me actually of, you know, we just covered Buffy season five, part one, when Drusilla is able to pluck the word effulgent out of Spike's head. Like, what are Sinestro's abilities to sort of see inside of Hal's head and just pluck out the specific vulnerabilities? Yeah. And just say, what's that word you're fighting, right? You're trying to hide a word in your head from yourself, from every, like, your biggest shame, your biggest fear is that you're washed and you're old and you can't do this anymore. But I can ferret it out and pull it to the fore. And, like, how much of that is about Hal and how Sinestro knows him and knows how to push his buttons because of their history together? And how much of it is just, like, this is being human? You know, that you get old and you have to confront your mortality and you have to confront. You have to confront that the world is passing you by and you have to confront that somebody has put your replacement right there in front of you. So when Hal says here, like, Johnny Tryhard, he's too perfect. He's boring, right? Replace me fine. It's like the bravado. And then we watch at the bookends of this episode are Hal is old scenes, right? There's this conversation here and then there is Hal having to stand there as Hector Gutierrez plays the recording of John telling Liana, this guy's fucking old and washed. Without the foreshadowing. That provocation that got him there in the first place to say it. It's interesting to go back to that conversation that Bernadette was having with Liana where Liana says, quote, humans have relatively short lifespans. Like, to your point, it's. We say this a lot when we talk about characters that we're studying. This is so human. It's human quality. But, like, inside of this world where there are just so many non-humans, like, the fact that Hal is old versus Sinestro's lifespan versus all these other creatures in their lifespans, the Guardians, etc. It's a very fragile human. Yes. Specifically human, short lifespan sort of aspect. Yeah. And then you think about Hal and losing his father so young and the way that he talks about him in this episode. And he was a hero, right? And test pilot and so much of Hal's, like, edge, right? And cool stems from, I'm a fighter pilot, too. And so you do these things that simultaneously always push up against mortality, like, definitionally. And Hal has the most concrete perspective. Proof of how true that can be. But then also, the ring chooses you. And, you know, as we've tracked across the episodes, these moments where it's like, well, what is the. I'm famous. I'm in the limelight. Everybody looks up to me. I'm a superhero. Some great, like, well, superheroes don't really lock their doors, like, moments in this episode, too. But, you know, the side of that of, like, resenting the visibility and the pressure everybody puts on you to solve things all the time is something we've talked about a lot. There's also this part of it of, like, everybody watches. Watching you grow old, right? The days where you, like, your back hurts or your hip hurts. Couldn't be us filming our podcast on camera suddenly. It's like, right? But think about that from Hal. Everybody is aware. There's the salt in his hair all of a sudden, right? And so the moments to you that feel like part of your decline are there for everyone to see. And then Johnny Tryhard comes in and he's fucking perfect. The line at the end, in the slaughterhouse scene with Hector at the end of, like. Obsolete. Obsolete. And especially because we've gotten these great moments across the season, like we had the line in episode three, the John Liana conversation about, like, humans aren't programmed, they're raised. And we keep getting these moments where, like, tech language is used, right? But you're a person. And so if somebody is saying you're obsolete because here's the shiny new model, I'm like, it took me into, like, an Ishiguro, like, Clara and the Sun headspace, right? It's like, these are people. So it's just a very painful. I think this episode has done, like, did a really good job of just giving us moments that open these big, almost existential questions while also advancing the plot. But it's so interesting to think about that idea of, like, humans and mortality and fragility inside of an episode where we have, you know, Macon Senior and all of his resplendent naked glory talking about. Which elephant? What their town has become. Right. And what it has become. Is a place where humanity doesn't concern them as much anymore. Nobody gets sick. So thinking about, you know, like, how long do they live longer than humans usually do? We don't know that information yet. But, like, they're not getting sick. You know, there's bounty aplenty. Like, we are living a superior existence because of this godlike benefactor who has come to us. Especially when the Manhunter is a constructed property. This idea of these tech terms is sort of like, how has the entire town of Rushville, like, had their brains rewired. Absolutely. by the thinking and the language and the influence of this person inside of their community? It's so fascinating that Macon in particular, but the buy-in from the militia and the collective of, like, the. You know, what we talked about a lot in episode. In episodes one and two, the fear-mongering, the kind of jingoistic, isolationist language of, let's keep everybody else out who is a threat. That the embrace of the Manhunter who has fueled their superiority and infallibility to these threats. Yeah. That is, like, the idea that the other humans then who would come in, or aliens who would come in, anybody who would come in, is potentially a threat and how the Manhunter has. It's such a self-serving thing for the Manhunter to say, like, accept me as the one exception to that. Absolutely, because. And then everybody else is. I think what's interesting, so, you know, a couple things. First of all, Garrett Dillahunt, 61, looks incredible. Yeah. And so, like, good job to him and his trainer and all that sort of stuff like that. But the idea of this 61-year-old man, like, looking like this. Yes. inside of the world of this show is, like, this is what it means to live under. the auspices of the Manhunter. There's, like, one scar here to tell you something has gone wrong in the past. And then also this idea. So, like, I found it so interesting the way that he kind of repeated this language about, like, the natives and what. And, you know, the natives of this land and what they had to fear. And I was like, this is such weird, like, messaging, almost like repeated messaging. Yeah, sure. And so, you know, something that's interesting about the Manhunters in the comics, various version of the Manhunters and what they've been over the years, but. This idea of, like, on various planets, there was this idea of the cult of the Manhunters. The Manhunters, like, show up and get all these humans to basically, like, worship them. Mm-hmm. And so, if you think about Rushville as this sort of, like, cult-like community that, like, let's say Zoe is the Manhunter. Yeah. Certainly a Manhunter, but the Manhunter. Yes. Mm-hmm. So, Zoe shows up, performs a miracle. Yeah. Cures. Savior? Sure, why not? Cures Macon Senior of. Of cancer. Mm-hmm. You know, and finds the Alpha in Macon Senior. Yep. Cures him of cancer, marries him, and is sort of, like, weds herself to this, you know, slab of grade-A American beef that is, like, running this community. Yeah. And so, and to have a ranch, which is so associated with cult-like behavior in my life. But, like, to think about, we talked about this multiple times, the entire town emptying out for this meeting of, like, what do we do about this lanterns? Yeah. Like, that's not normal town behavior. No, certainly not. So, like, in what ways is Rushville, like, a cult of. Sure, yeah. A Manhunter, Zoe's cult. Yeah. That she's running from behind the scenes. The way in which, I mean, one of my favorite things that the show has done leading up to this and even inside of this episode is it's just constantly he. He, he, he, the benefactor, he, the Manhunter, he, he, he. Yeah. You know, in an attempt to hide Zoe from the viewer. But in general, sort of, like, this, this form that the Manhunter took. From the viewer or from the other characters, too? Both. Yeah. Absolutely both. But, like, that's, that's, like, a sort of famous screenwriting trick. But also, yeah, like, from the, from the detectives as well. But just thinking about, like, yeah, this idea of this entire town sort of, like, oriented around this figure and how she has sort of shaped everyone's thinking and how her messaging is something that they repeat in this sort of cult-like form. Like, follower fashion. Yeah. And so for Macon Senior to just be like, here's the company line. The company line is this. Yeah. Outsiders. Because she's afraid of the various aliens who are hunting her. They're there for the hunt, yeah. So she has just repeated to them, this is what we need to do to protect ourselves and our community and our utopia. And aren't you so grateful to me that I have cleared out your hospitals and filled your tables and all these other things? And I just think that that is the, the traces of that in this true detective way that we've been seeing throughout. It's so fun to watch come together and form, like, a tapestry that makes a lot of sense. I thought there were other kind of fascinating moments in this episode of, like, seeing some language that doesn't then connect to the reality of the thing. Like, they get to the slaughterhouse that's outside of Rushville 95 miles, but still. but influenced and it's like you can learn about a man from how they treat animals and then it's like we're in a literal slaughterhouse so there's this real dissonance at play in uh many different moments across the the the universe of rush well i have some questions when we get to those scenes for you about like who actually knows about zoe versus the manhunter and how present the idea of a decoy was in many scenes across this episode but we can we can hit that when we get there um back to sinestro so he asks hal if he respects john and this was interesting because you know there's the i didn't say like i said respect clarity here and we have had now three of four episodes where some central conversation takes place about the idea of respect right and how that's different actually from liking somebody we had the carrie scene in episode one you know can't be easy having to learn from someone you don't respect i do respect him john and hal in episode three and i think it's a good thing that we're able to do that in the next episode um there was the liana john conversation you must think something he was chosen instead of your father my dad served this country honorably he respects anyone whose job it is to protect people he taught me to do the same and so like how far that carries you but what the limit of that is absent some sort of genuine affection or desire to forge affection especially if you are a character who is in some way confronting the danger of forged affection which is what hal talks about multiple times throughout this episode so that's sort of interesting um it's very interesting and it's and it's uh i guess what it motivates for us the viewer is this hope of pushing past respect yes into genuine affection yes that would be the desire um how's like all right fuck off you don't know anything about manhunters enjoy your solitary fucks jack off all you want i'm gone and so that's just like all right we'll talk about manhunters let's do it um believed to be extinct i know some things about their unique uh physiology encourages how to this would be valuable to the guardians so disgrace john stewart by offering a manhunter up to the guardians uh we don't hear we do not witness directly in the scene the crystal heart particular or the seduction uh info that we get also later that comes up later so then the question of like what else didn't we hear kind of has to be on our minds how could it not be um keeps pushing that wedge does john speak to the guardians no he says he doesn't told me about the manhunter didn't have to do that which of course was also our response to this moment right but there will be an active uh stretch of this episode where hal has to confront of course that john is talking to the guardians and specifically what he is saying and what he thinks but then even there it's like could have taken the ring could have said the oath didn't have to do that but then even there it's like could have taken the ring could have said didn't so the push pull of what that actually looks like uh well then he can be controlled this is what sinestro says is he fearless ah he may be then he will be arrogant overly confident thus blindly oblivious to your true intent is that how you fooled me i was never anything but myself my ambition was always a threat you simply chose not to see it do not make the same mistake with john stewart this was quite interesting the like bravado of fronting as fearless leaving you vulnerable right that feeling the compulsion to say i'm fearless or to try to force yourself to actually navigate life without fear leaves you open right it doesn't make you stronger it leaves you open and of course that's been on our mind from word word one of the series absolutely this is an episode where in a very very key moment we see undeniably that john stewart is not fearless he is terrified about what is about to happen to his parents in the end sequence um and i think that this you know the whole season hal has talked about his gut his famous gut but this exchange at the beginning of this episode right is that how you fooled me reminds us that the famous gut has limits how got fooled by one of the people closest to him in the world undercutting that idea that he always knows he always knows he's a student of of of of nature human or otherwise right and he can feel something and he trusts that judgment well if he missed this what else what else is he missing but also this is why the seat of doubt for him of course this is this is one of the many reasons why i mean i think he would resent john being here no matter what but he is in a fresh position of not being able to trust his own so even if he likes john he's like but should i like john and is he telling me the truth and you know john has that similar exchange with zoe where he's like everyone's lying to me yes and i know that because i'm lying to everyone to everyone right um here what here's what i think is the most interesting word in this uh that exchange you just uh reenacted um ambition i think that is really interesting because there's like many different versions of sinestro and his motivations in in the comics and so you know what flavor of sinestro are they positioning for us here we got an interesting email from a listener who was talking about sinestro specifically like this idea of fear and um and force uh and how sinestro specifically uh in like the jeff john's run was a post 9-11 commentary so i was like looking into that a little bit and this is something jeff john said in an interview he says i think the best superhero stories are metaphors for what we're really experiencing and green lantern certainly is that there's a storyline sinestro core that was really all about post 9-11 fears okay so like this idea of like sinestro uh in most versions of the sinestro fall story sinestro was discovered uh using like too much force uh almost fascistic control of his sector um born out of fear or whatever or whatever you prefer in terms of like being able to police people but going except too far and something that how in some versions but in in many of them lately how discovers and is like oh my god my my buddy my guy my mentor sinestro this is how you're policing your sector horrible and then again in some versions he's like i'm gonna go tell on you to the guardians i'm gonna report you to the guardians right um but i love that idea of like um when we talk about space cops which we have and sort of like who gets to decide who does what and i think that that's kind of like what we're thinking about this like patriot act post 9-11 america and the surveillance state and sort of like what you can justify uh when you when you have experienced a widespread fear inside of your community and what you can justify yourself yes if you feel scarred by by fear and stuff like that and and i thought what was really interesting is like in uh in a version of the sinestro story is told by jeff johns um it's uh and like i have no idea what they're what version they're gonna go with for this story like what version exactly you've heard some aspects of it but i don't know like precisely what version but like jeff johns tells this story about how um basically like a suicide bomber kills sinestro's wife uh who is erin sir abin sir's sister and that is like a huge motivator for what pushed him he was already not doing a great job patrolling but like pushes him into this state so like what story are we interested in telling about sinestro here and hearing that word ambition yeah when there have been all these versions of the sinestro story that are sort of about like uh let's talk about how someone gets to this point how do you get to this point of fearlessness where you feel backed in the corner and you have to use too much force um in order to gain control but ambition doesn't really fit in with that so like what story are they you know does that sound more like again the kind of like lucifer morning star kind of thing like i i should rule i should be a guardian i should like uh that sort of stuff so like i don't know i just thought that that word was really really interesting and like and when we're trying to find sympathetic paths forward for all of these characters right um this is a show that seems very much interested in like okay bernadette and john senior did a bunch of this but what are the reasons why they did all of this stuff or like hal is an asshole and is feeling prickly but what what are the wounds that got him there this sinestro betrayal is is one of the wounds you know but for sinestro to say my ambition so it's just just him not even someone else saying like sinestro's ambition i just find that really interesting and i'm like so compelled by this performance i'm by this character and i'm really excited to see where it goes i really hope that we get quite a bit more time with him in the back half of the season i don't know what to expect there given that the now two of the four episodes have included a sinestro scene but ultimately it's the same scene the one visit cut across you know and it's always seen in the trailer of him yeah it doesn't make me confident that there's a lot more coming but hopefully like flashbacks that would be great and then maybe obviously setting up stuff for the for the future of the story um but yeah you know i think like the i we like complicated figures and complicated stories so i like the idea that sinestro is uh even if there was a at some point more personal or pure root um desirous of and perhaps it's born out of saying the guardians aren't doing a good job and so I think I could do better right but the fact that it's not just they're not doing a good job but I could do better is telling I think in a story where like the positioning of what is the worthier path working for it or just having it there's a version of that that can apply potentially to what we learn about Sinestro and the Guardians too you know the Guardians have it and they don't want to let go of it and Sinestro's like I've got some thoughts I also just like I was thinking about this a lot when I was I love that point I was thinking about it reminds me of when we were talking at the beginning of the first episode I was like I didn't really love that flying scene and you're like oh well what didn't like how would you do it differently or whatever and I was like I don't have solutions I just have like problems what I love in this episode is when John is like you can't just fly in there with your big green fists or whatever and he's like what do you propose I do and he's like here's a whole he like comes with a solution he's like here's a whole schematic I've put together you know what he means so it's like tunneling John is the kind of guy who doesn't just say like your way is wrong he's like here's the alternate path and I've thought it through yeah all the way through it's not just that I think I can do better because of posturing or I'm younger or or um hotter or all these other things like that it's like I've thought about your what I think you're gonna do and I think it's gonna involve you getting killed and I have come up with another idea another path forward yeah I don't know it's interesting too because like when you have a lot of time when you're methodical and you act with intention but also you have a lot of time for that to play out there's a part of that that leads to really deliberate uh thoughtful pursuits and then there's a part of that and who knows if we'll learn that this is maybe uh an aspect of the Sinestro story that leads to like a calcification of whatever that resentment is and that can be like a this is a story about emotion right one of the things that like Hal says to to John is it seems like you're like you're you're quieting your feelings right and it was a interesting thing to hear from Hal as we'll talk about when we get to that scene but like what happens if you're trying to stifle an impulse and what happens if you're allowing yourself in the time that you do have and the plotting that you're doing to heighten it like those are dangerous in different ways um John so when we cut to him in between those two Sinestro Hal chunks he's at the motel we get to glimpse the drawings there's the bird as we mentioned there's the Macon ranch there's Zoe and his dad calls him and he says the guardians need to talk to you get to the payphone 20 minutes they're going to patch you in and John says it's a bad time we're working the case he hangs up right as he's knocking on Hal's door this was I thought really fascinating to see the the level of involvement that John Sr. and Bernadette still have like not just that they're calling John multiple times in this episode in our conversations but the like we'll patch you in like we are directly of the guardians yeah I find it so fucking insidious at the guard I mean like obviously Leon is about to show up and do like gaslight girl boss gatekeep of all time performance right but like yeah but the fact that like John and Bernadette are so closely involved in their grown-ass adult son's job you know what I mean and it's just like you know let me let me get your mom on the phone like Bernadette get on the phone like it's just that's insane to me we get we got a lot of emails from listeners uh sharing specific stories of of families that they've grown up in where their parents um behaved in similar ways and several of them were like I feel like this story isn't and I I don't think it is but a lot of our listeners are like I really need more John reckoning with what his parents have done to him for him and to him um and like as much as you know the people who made last week's episode are asking for uh are like empathy as we think about John and Bernadette like I I do think that John finding himself here trying to be like walked by his parents still is a story that the show uh is very interested in telling yeah I mean it it it the Liana part of it the guardian seeking to use the family dynamic especially because you know we saw it one of the things we saw Liana say to John Ash John in the show that John was ready to uh feel even more isolated from his family right and then we see that at least in this initial fate yeah but in this initial phase these first couple months of um the the tenure of Green Lantern trainee that Liana is seemingly doing the opposite working to keep John's parents as present as possible in not only his life but in his path to the ring so that part of it is obviously really interesting and I think like what John is going to continue to assess about these dynamics like I I think that processing his family history I agree with you seems very likely to continue to be an interest of of the show and of the character I think that given that we saw the reaction that we saw to Hector saying three minutes on the clock satellite pointed at your childhood home and John's reaction that the undeniable love and desire to protect them and affection and connection that he has to them um and certainly then the cautionary tale of Hal saying no ties it's easier it's a lonely life but you don't want the people in your life to get hurt you know it doesn't feel like we're moving nor should we be moving toward John like rejecting the family bond that in fact finding a way to embrace the family bond but on his terms not the guardian's terms yeah um it is interesting just to even track though the change over the course of these episodes like from calling his dad and saying like what like what do I do about how he's done all this stuff and like what you know and his father having this great stuff and then him saying like no time right now dad like we're on the case right like that's that's just like a over the course of few episodes shift no question and just and doesn't answer at all when we you know we see his phone ringing when when John and Hal and Carrie are together um I really like the conversation that we hear between Bernadette and John which we'll talk about later when John is at the post of watching the parking lot back at the motel um that's the the that was really fascinating in terms of the uh the John Hal dynamic as well here we see John after Hal does not answer because he's in space uh go to the gun and ammo store needs a scope and the there's a citizen of Rushville there talking to the the the cashier the clerk um and as soon as John walks in they're like the the the the this is the big green asshole sidekick so we've heard sidekick used across every episode of the season uh obviously not something that John likes hearing and we see once again that everyone in Rushville is like get the lanterns out of here now we will end up hearing that from Liana too which is fascinating in the John scene with Liana when she flickers into the the motel room like why are you guys still here nobody wants the lanterns to be in Rushville notable but this guy's such a dick to John right he's like guns scopes package deal sorry right and John's like just totally cool okay here's a wad of cash I'll take that one then just unscrews the scope leaves the gun makes a joke about the ham and the tomato on the sandwich and then says hey you all were a blast and felt like a little bit of a different energy from John how do you well how do you characterize it I think because it goes right into the next scene the water tower recon scene with Hal he was just where we get the one of my favorite moments of the season so far the Disney exchange and like did you just make a joke that you're just we're getting to access more of John's personality on the one hand yeah on the other hand I I mean the the racially coded good old boy energy like you know coming off these guys and waves and the way in which John again like channeling what his father did say to him in the previous episode which is like they get to get angry we don't yes and so the way in which he is just sort of like smoothing himself over and just sort of like swallowing it and smiling and whatever you need that's fine whatever it takes to get me what I want to get out the door and I'm not allowed to like get frustrated or upset I will just take it I thought was really interesting and also what's interesting is the I mean he's a sniper but whatever but like that one of John Stewart in the comics most frequent constructions is a sniper rifle in in the sort of like post we're allowed to make guns era of Green Lanterns and so like he's like one of his iconic constructs is a scope and so like for him to but he has to go to the store and buy it because he doesn't have the ring and doesn't get to do it yet you know yeah I mean one of the first times that we heard maybe the first time that we heard sidekick invoked was another scenario like that it was right it was the minute John arrived in town when he goes to the football stadium for the first time and he has that interaction with one of Carrie's deputies right who kind of who like won't let him in as being a dick the using the radio to kind of keep John at at bay and he had to from the second he set foot in town had to navigate that kind of reaction and response so that has certainly not changed uh to the water tower where John is using the scope to assess what is happening on the Macon Ranch and then Hal drops in asked to scope incredible moment just hysterical I loved this scene I thought that it was the a very humorous note and what was just overall a very charming and also very fraught and very tense buddy uh cop like episode for these two characters and important to see them connect and sport important to see how actually like take delight in John and not just respect him but also just like enjoy him yes uh and i love all of this um also like you know his answer of like where were you i was in space getting laid you know were you worried about me jr like all that sort of stuff like that but like i was i was in like a smile love it where was hal when he was missing in episode one right like yep he was he was absent was he visiting sinestro then like right yeah how much time has he been dosing the the sinestro whispers you know yeah i mean it feels like when we see him approach sinestro that there's a like i have had to gird myself to confront my surprises for the first time especially since leon is like hey he broke his yeah wow so like if they do have any kind of meaningful surveillance um right but uh but i don't know like because again he's just like a deeply unreliable for sure uh yeah and it's just like he's just like a deeply unreliable uh like he's just like a deeply unreliable uh yeah and it's just like he's just like a deeply unreliable uh like he's just like a deeply unreliable charming asshole it also just has that nice effect of like reminding us but also making john feel undeniably that hal can go do whatever he wants at any moment in time and john doesn't know what's happening and he's just earthbound and has to pay for his scope and you know yeah man i like that hal lied here and then tells the truth later now it is because you know john's like he gets leon i told me you broke your mouth what's up with that but he could he could have doubled down he could have evaded at that point too and he didn't um john's starts to to share what he's been observing right this chopper is coming and going same time every day 9 17 that doesn't happen by accident four guard towers they all have a line of sight to something that you can't see unless you're in one of those towers the weenie uh chopper theories like doesn't seem like zoe's coming and going on the chopper tech didn't they say it was tech drop didn't they say it was a decoy well that's what one of the things john says is maybe it's a decoy but like a decoy for whom well for them to think well if it's a show for them yeah an idea that a benefactor is coming and going which is the fact that she's here under your nose at all times so this is just they've started using the chopper because they're in town maybe not something they're doing before then i don't know interesting um john reminds hal and us 36 hours 36 hours to report baby uh the disneyland exchange wonderful stuff loved the little smirk from from john there uh they didn't let me in it's the happiest place on earth but they said i'd kill the vibe just great stuff really got to kick out of that wonderful um hal says that they need to fill in sheriff kane fill in sheriff kane by the way on stuff that john solo has figured out and we've been tracking this across you're just gonna say fill in sheriff kane and leave it there yeah because i'm about to make a sex joke so i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna uh pace myself okay bide your time all right yeah um it's all about the the build it is it's always it's it's about letting the tension mount yeah um the you know the moments in episode two where we got to see how true detecting all of the moments in episode three where we get to watch john uh as a marine out in the field but just in general you know seeing here like the observational skills the recon ability the awareness the deductive reasoning right this is all stuff that john is doing on his own because we get yet another series across this episode of god it seems like there are some like problems with this whole green lantern setup with darkness guns and you're just like fucked right all of these limits across the episode okay shit you didn't charge up etc etc someone can just take the ring off your finger and say the oath yeah like oh my god right and so we've been tracking across the season it's almost like sinestro's right what can you do without the ring and these are all things that that that john did without the ring yeah right um so how's like all right that's a lot good i've got some manhunter intel good we got to go tell sheriff kane uh i gave her my word um and john ships it right he's like i was like what she's married and unlike you i respect the matrimonial bond wonderful and then he says um you know after just like two bros bonding over chicks they they maybe want to fuck delightful stuff uh he he's like let's go i'll fly us over and john's like how's that gonna work and hal says well i can either carry you like a baby or you can hop on pretend like i'm a horse and i just i said i'm gonna fly you over and he's like i'm gonna fly you over and i'm gonna say to that tough to see someone else living your dreams swaddle me daddy let me ride you daddy i refuse god i refuse to let them put that on the quote card swaddle me daddy is not swaddle me daddy is not baby play mallory let me ride you i just like the idea of being daddy just being pressed against swaddle me daddy into a microphone now filthy bullet hole riddle jacket wonderful um right right i'm like a horse though that's appealing sure that's it's a horse play is one thing but swaddle me daddy mallory we have to draw a line somewhere like i'm a horse i'm good pats his chest great stuff just a delightful scene loved it they bring carrie up to speed they go to the bar and uh she's like yeah my husband owns it everyone in rushville multi-tasks that felt notable fascinating i mean fascinating feels like a clue right absolutely the lawyer is also the bar owner etc so we multitasking doing yeah that really dropped like a clang with a clang definitely uh they tell her about the manhunter hiding here assassins inbound that the aliens from the football game that's not the end of it they share the clock with her so that stokes the urgency for carrie as well and little thing but in this stretch of this conversation hal says the thing that john just mentioned john not junior not junior then he goes back to calling him junior he'll call him stewart but i was like he called him john he called him john i don't know i loved it magical this is how i feel when buffy calls spike william it means something to me incredible uh carrie asks about the manhunter they don't know what it wants but it's been here a while it can take any form dun dun dun also alien detectors won't work because this is something else dun dun dun also it could be anyone hiding here in rushville dun dun dun this is like a hysterical we're just setting up the theorizing among the fans some of which we will answer like the end of that episode of night of the seven kingdoms when it's like pan to dunk pan to egg pan to everyone in the score is like dun dun dun uh yeah carrie yeah where are you on her in general what does she know yeah when does she know it is she helping is she less in the know than literally everybody else that doesn't really seem plausible well she's an outsider she's from gotham but she's been here for how long newish in town i mean like years though yeah right oh that's a little a little strange i'm kind of like back on carrie watch after this episode actually like it felt in some ways her you know showing up to uh got a call about two trespassers to help out hal and john on the macon ranch really putting herself at risk etc there's a very sincere emotional moment in response to zoe's death what am i going to tell noah that's her but like and the lovely little finger hold was that because she was like but then right back to work no no she was like what am i going to tell noah it was his grandmother like is that how you react when the mother of the grandmother of your child is dead i mean but what's the family bond what's the family dynamic noah that was his grandmother what do you mean i know so yeah i'm kind of back and just like in general also zoe calling her obviously there's a clear carrie sheriff carrie yeah was lying to them from the beginning yeah when they show up and she's like what do you mean aliens because she's like what do you mean aliens because she's like you can't just say aliens and then they're like and then she's like oh yeah we do have alien detectors that's interesting that you know that i already knew about the aliens you know like it's she's been performing since the moment we met her and i don't know like a little just the um right in the next moment in the scene they're like well why don't you suspect me felt very like yeah so do you think she's a do you think she's a manhunter what do you think i i don't know i'm just i think of all of the hal's famous gut what do you think i don't know i'm just i think of all of the hal's famous gut what's the checkoff's gut thing how being very sure about carrie and some carrie centric secret are you saying what sometimes plausible sometimes like when you're i'm gonna use a phrase i don't usually use but it is evocative construct yeah um yeah like or leading with your heart instead of your gut i guess to use the more romantic stuff but like can the gut signal be be scrambled by the by the heart signal it's like i looked you up you are from gotham it's very nice to see your photo gal focus oh my god says senior did you say see your photo or senior photo my caption said senior phone your photo oh i had seeing your photo yeah that's what i heard but my caption said very nice senior photo and i was just like were you looking at her high school yearbook i mean but also the bangs comment is intriguing to me that was hysterical so yeah i don't know back on carry watch i think but of course we do have the 2026 moment as well which on the one hand there was such a what seemed like a lovely little like reason to believe that whatever happens in the 2016 timeline like the connection between john and carrie and maybe hal and carrie survived that but then also you're like fuck like she's the one with the body i don't know i i definitely think broadly speaking learning what we learned in this episode about zoe does not end the theorizing no right it just opens it up in some ways yeah um and hal is like well okay the oven surcrash in answer to her question oven surcrash manhunter board identity it wouldn't be something the record pre-crash that's his like more rational and i saw your photo and i loved it yeah uh that's the more rational but not the banks yeah exactly it's a gentle neg she asked them to go to theory corner your bang choices were bad i mean she has beautiful hair right now i'm sure she also looked wonderful with bangs beautiful woman she's like let's go to theory corner right who do you think it is and they say the benefactor you must know something about the benefactor because and before mention if it's the lawyer mentioned first and then oh yeah this guy is also making son which again just feels intentional to remind us that this family dynamic is really weird like whatever is going on inside like we don't have that kind of relationship yeah and hal is like oh interesting you have my attention i'm intrigued but what does that actually mean what does that mean like it feels like an opening for hal because he has the hots for but what does that mean what is there she also talked about we saw in the previous episode about like owing right yes yeah so like what is her debt to the macon family yeah and hal had that great like sounds like a woman in debt line but has he stopped is he how how active is that thought for him the heart is just the thumping too loudly i'm striking construct from the record and i'm going back i'm pure from here on out i support you fully so yeah i don't know i don't know what awaits on the carry front something right i think we just keep asking questions liana let's get to liana so john and how they head back to the motel um this is a master class this was just an amazing class from liana wild stuff here before liana shows up they're in the parking lot for a second hal and john and john says any chance that carrie rats us out and hal's like no no my gut is always right except for that time about sinestro also i really just liked like uh you know better to wait six hours and die in the daylight like i'm gonna go take a nap incredible stuff so john goes to his room turns the lamp on there's a flickering and then the mind fuck begins you failed to make contact i'm disappointed right away we know that we're in for just an epic scene here follow-up question why does he have to go to a pay phone and get patched through if she could just hologram her ass into the motel room at any given time i know also how do you prevent a flickering into the room at an inopportune time but do you think liana like bopped in saw him when zoe was like oh maybe i'll come back later well i'd like to know what the hell recordings are what do you think just him jacking off for six hours a lot of that nursing some beers and then jacking off sure carrie senior photo probably yeah i mean it's canon i really love the idea that the caption was just befuddled by kyle chandler's like folksy seeing seeing your photo and they're like senior photo the limits uh why are you still in nebraska liana wants to know definitely for no reason just curious just checking in on your schedule it's definitely not because the the citizens of rushville don't want you here but also the guardians don't want you here because we're hiding some great secret about whatever led to this crash yeah why do you think so you think the guardians just don't want them to know more about manhunters or like i think it could just be that right the connection between the guardians and the manhunter who wound up there and manhunters more broadly it's not something that they want more deeply understood but if the they not want to find said manhunter themselves so they want the the guardians out of there so they can like you know come in and take care of it themselves without any information getting out yeah i don't know okay i don't know maybe they're trying maybe if it were me i would simply say hey dumb cops that's the manhunter go get them here are the groups there's the guardians sure there are the citizens of rushville there's the manhunter there's sinestro multitasking that's right exactly all multitasking sinestro the lanterns right so there's there's how there's john uh other lanterns and of course there's also anton and his alien gang of course so how they come into play exactly of course get the call at the end of the episode we're close so that's a very like high tension thing heading into next episode where the guardians are obsessed with control think they can exert control and practice interesting to to think about um says how lied about his oath or violated his oath lied about where he was saw sinestro this is the what did they talk about i was hoping you could tell me seeing that moment that we already discussed um we agreed that this feels like a test but maybe also there is a what don't i know about what is going on aspect to it uh and then liana says jordan's actions have accelerated the inevitable so we knew about this this fear right we heard liana say uh to john in episode three sinestro was jordan's teacher a father figure he still harbors deep affection for his mentor it's quite a bit of a question i don't know if it's quite troubling and so this is like confirmation bias concern validation right we were worried he was going to still be in cahoots with sinestro and then he went to sinestro but also like they're just waiting for any moment to say we got to get hal jordan out of here i kind of i mean like we can disagree on this but i kind of feel like that's how they felt since the moment he got the ring yeah i think they're like anything and now they're like oh this sinestro thing really helps us you know i definitely think so yeah i think they're like oh this sinestro thing really helps us you know i definitely think that's possible i don't think it's the only interpretation but i certainly think it's it's it's completely reasonable um and and probably even likely she tells him just take the ring the moment you put it on your finger recite the oath and you become green lantern for sector 2814 so is this how guy gardner is gonna get the ring he's just gonna take it and say the oath do you feel like he just wandered onto the football field at russional nebraska and just sort of like pried it off his finger he was there crunching tape he heard that noah had made and he's like i gotta see it with my eyes this guy couldn't get a ball through the fucking tire swing mere years ago so but okay so this is like an interesting we have these two paths the ring chooses you or you work your whole life for it yeah but then like is there not also an element of the ring needing to this is just you could cut the ring off siren's finger like the ring doesn't there's no the ring has no choice in the matter if you just take it and say the oath isn't this the way the guardians are changing the rules yeah because it hasn't the the rules have been the ring chooses and they're like we don't really like the choices the ring has been making and so we're gonna like bypass the ring rules yeah i mean the rings they created in the first place to be clear so like i guess they can just change the rules of how the fuck they want yeah but earlier they're like we trust the rings uh you know guardian finding ability and now they're like we don't we don't actually it's us we gotta do it yeah so interesting um john says um but again like if that's the case and then guy gardner just like is is watching noah tape and then like takes the crusty icy ring off of hal's finger and recites the oath which like where would he learn the oath but like let's say he does that um again i ask why the guardians aren't more proactively like get that guy out of here because guy gardner is certainly not who uh i would want sure to be my guardian of sector maybe they're just huge castle fans it's entirely possible they love his hair they do i don't know it feels like there has to be something beyond just i took the ring and i said the oath that would like cement that in a permanent state that's wild maybe they're just saying we're getting giving you the past like because we the guardians have decided yeah that you're our candidate so if you do it yeah then it'll work yeah maybe uh john's like man i didn't know you were gonna make me do this by myself i loved that moment i loved him standing up for himself there i loved the tension in that moment and then liana just turns it on him with such a quickness and says some horrible fucking things i love laura uh laura linney the great laura linney's performance here because it's almost bird-like but also kind of alien-like where she just does a little like cock of her head and she's like oh yeah your father's weakness oh your father's weakness the the specifically the stuff about bernadette's lies and the way that that was positioned to john who like and she's like my gut said no and i should have listened to it we watched this this driveway scene like this is liana's ploy from the word go oh yeah you know gaslight yeah girl boss man and hal's been filing these reports on you and he says you're not creative and then john immediately going with the drawing to the door like i'm creative so good you're too weak liana says and then john bites he bites right tough replies with the anti-hal speech that we get to hear twice and hal gets to hear in a very painful way once without without the helpful context i know i know he's like man junior he just couldn't wait to talk but i do love that at the end of that clip when when he hears it later they do include you hear liana on the clip so you know who he's talking yes the ring's always been mine that assholes just keeping it warm tough do you think that hal really said those things about john and his guardians reports because on the one hand he doesn't respect or care about the guardians but on the other hand he is threatened by john's presence i think he said that but i think he also said positive things that feels right that feels right to me yeah um and leon is like let's not repeat any of that just just go with the negative highlights here drill time drill time bonding boy i love this uh john goes to hal's room shows him the the plan and this is the like don't just go smash it right don't use your big green fist and just get shot in the head let's tunnel in let's be thoughtful about the approach shows him the the drawing and hal says did you draw this just now now we just we just talked about the yeah i'm creative reply this is one of the most important things that i've ever seen in my life i've ever seen in my life many moments in this stretch and just in general in the episode where we realize undeniably they know nothing about each other i was really struck by that who are you he says yes who are you I went to art school the art school thing that obviously John does not know what he's about to learn about Hal's mother like these are huge things to not know about each other and as they learn them they form a more authentic connection to each other um I do think that I love this uh reinforcement of what we were talking about last week in terms of like the kind of constructs that that our guy John Stewart makes and it's just like here's a very complex schematic that I have drawn in intense detail uh that I am then going to employ and that will will work John's function John Stewart's title in the comics is the master builder it's I I loved the made me think of Xander or Dracula but that's okay Vader yeah Vader master builder Vader um I I thought it was interesting here that just like right when John knocked at the door uh Hal sees him and says you all right which was interesting for a couple reasons one later in the car when Hal asks you okay John's like you've literally never asked me that but actually he has and also just because Hal can kind of clock that something's up because John has just had this very intense exchange that Hal doesn't know about him and he's like something seems a little bit different um they're at the edge of the land prepared to tunnel and Hal gives John the ring so right away here it is an opportunity to do what Leanna told him to do immediately and this is such long pregnant stretch of John looking at Hal looking at the ring considering thinking and then not doing it and you know later he will actually say to Hal like I could have done this and I didn't and I was gonna give it back to you and then when I asked for it again it was because I wanted to show you what I could do like we go through all those moments where he could have done this and didn't yeah and I think that what feels interesting and true about John and Hal and where we are with them is that there's probably a part of John right now who's just like we have a mission like we need to go and figure out what's going on and I don't want to do this before that I actually feel a responsibility to solve this and also that he's like this ring is mine and I'm better suited for it than you are and also that he's like I don't want to do this to you not in this way and not yet all those things feel true fascinating it's Hamlet thinking about killing Claudius isn't it always yeah it's the best for a reason now I'll do it classic for a reason um the the drill itself the other thing that I think is really interesting is that there's a lot of things that I I what I love what you're observing about the the intricacy of what is required for this to work and then I loved loved love we are in their point of view they're behind it so they're watching it move forward and it is there is a yellow force that is pushing it forward there's like the engine the apparatus and that manifests on screen is a yellow thing inside the yellow fear inside of the green construct so fitting because of the conversation specifically that they're having did it make you think of um the sweeper in labyrinth where it's just two little guys on a bicycle at the end of it um now I understand which is thrilling yeah wonderful stuff what do you think Ludo's up to oh um just being friends with rocks yeah that sounds right I love it um they move forward and they start to learn more about each other this is where Hal's like how did you where did you learn all this the art school reveal and then John learns because Hal's like how's your mother you know and John's says she's great how's yours and Hal says dead cancer and for the first time really we see John snap out of his compose the construct flickers out yeah we saw John Stewart unconscious and the bird was still going fucking conscious and that bird maintained but hearing this about Hal because of the empathy and humanity despite everybody trying to work those wedges learning this thing about this person he feels something because of the art school reveal and then John says she's great how's yours and Hal says dead cancer and for the first time really we see John snap out of his compose the construct flickers out yeah we saw John Stewart unconscious and the bird was still going fucking conscious and that person he feels something because of what John's parents mean to him and so the sorrow the sincere sorrow that he feels for Hal in that moment thinking about what it would have been like for Hal to be without both of his parents was just really struck and also just the way that Hal says it so like flippantly yeah you know yes uh Hal just confirms what Carrie told John in episode one that he's alone this is where he said it makes it easier no ties he will sort of return to that idea later in the car so we can talk about it a little bit more then the other interesting part of this is that he's not alone he's not alone he's not alone he's not alone he's not here is that John asked what his dad was like and Hal says fearless at least that's what he wanted people to think what was he afraid of we're here so this is like what we've been talking about all season and marching toward this is just how projecting right fearless that's what he wanted people to think that describes Hal himself fearless that's what he wants people to think loved hearing this from Hal and knowing that he has that level of awareness right that per se also yeah like what's this full what's this story with his dad are we gonna get a Hal flashback do you think uh on the one hand I would really love it on the other hand I'm sort of living in fear of a full like de-aged Kyle Chandler episode given how just absolutely majestic and perfect he looks now but some scenes I would take what was he afraid of the way that Hal looks at him and then doesn't answer because they arrive at the the end of the tunnel I like the idea that the answer to that is he was afraid of leaving his family which is of course John senior and that that could be a source of connection for these two that's that's kind of what I'm hoping we'll learn okay we'll see uh anything else on the tunneling in and what they learn about each other here before we get to the weenie but I do love I love when watching them both army crawl and like thinking of them as both having like military yes uh backgrounds was was really fun and then yeah I mean techorama okay what is that fucking thing in the middle of the room so they get into the weenie and then they're surrounded there's the armory right we see guns everywhere but there's the tech and they talk about this and we've talked about the tech all season and Hal has been like this is not common tech and then we see it everywhere and there's this like chair yeah is it a workbench is it for surgery is it for manufacturing a manhunter's form you know what is that that Hal is about to walk toward as he actually walks through the room and he's like I don't know I don't the pressure alarm it also says give me my ring but then we put that on pause for a minute because pressure alarm yeah it's interesting because um so in the comics the manhunters often use kryptonian tech so like is this a kryptonian device of some kind I don't know uh I mean my instinct is this is how we make warm manhunter that seems most likely I mean it looked like it could be like this is how we take cancer out of the body but like right that seems to be like it had a little bit of a when I first looked at it it had a little bit of a like advanced super tech yeah kind of medical bay like yeah stirrups at the bottom thing and then I was like this feels like a manhunter body fabricator yeah that was ultimately how many manhunters do you think there are if this is a fabricator I'm still trying to like parse how much I think everybody knows it feels like the whole town understands that there's some bargain that has been made that has been made that has been made and I'm still trying to like parse how much I think that has allowed them to benefit from this fortune in terms of who knows about zoe's identity specifically right now my guess which I'm prepared to be very wrong about is literally no one not even william oh I think megan senior definitely knows I feel I like the idea that he's like she's my savior she was my nurse she was my nurse but what if she's the the nurse identity is a decoy I like the idea that she protected her the truth from everyone but I mean who knows maybe he knows does Ellie been know like do the members of the militia do the other members of the family know no one knows except Ellie Ben just or is Ellie Ben a manhunter but maybe is everyone in that family a man is Jason Ritter a manhunter that seems is little Noah a manhunter maybe I mean maybe do manhunters have an aviator in each nation sponsorship do they make is it all state he's all state all of football you have to be for that to be true. Do you have to have like a mechanical heart? I mean, we gotta, unfortunately we gotta cut young Noah open to find out because great moment when Hal's like, can't, only waited to know for sure. Does Jason feel like too hapless to be a Manhunter? And if little Noah is a Manhunter, then Carrie, Sheriff Carrie has to know, right? Yeah, what does Carrie know? What does Carrie know? What's going on with this family? I like the idea of Jason Ritter being a Manhunter. Something's going on with Jason Ritter for sure. I mean, I do think it's interesting when when Hector Hammond says, not Hammond, Gutierrez says, Will Macon, right? Yeah, and you're like, which? Which Will? Yeah. Billy? Yeah. Could be Billy. Is it Billy all along? That would be great. He's, for sure, he's on the suspect list, no question. I mean, it's Jason Ritter. And he's like not around, kind of. Yeah, he's been in there. He's been in there oddly absent. Yeah, which feels like kind of the right caliber, much like Zoe, honestly, the right calibration of screen time where like, we're thinking about you, we know you. It would be like, oh, that guy, if you were actually revealed to be Secret Skrull. Yeah, it would be, it's good Secret Skrull casting, because we haven't been seeing him, but we also, and I actually don't know how widespread the Jason Ritter fandom is, but we are huge Jason Ritter fans, but like, for us, we've not forgotten that Jason Ritter is bumping around town. Exactly, nor will we. Nor could we. Pressure alarm activated. This was wonderful for a couple reasons. Great movie. Good movie, great movie, just like a couple pros who like Raiders. i love it um of all the things to bond over it's like everyone agrees that raiders is a great movie whether or not you should fuck a married woman and raiders is a great movie we've really made some progress here in this relationship the what do you weigh because we've got to do the weight swap right we've got to we've got to adhere to the canon of the film 185 ish perfect kettleball is that a kettlebell kettlebell i don't go to the gym kettleball and then all right we got to time it we got to time the swap you're like here we go and then just immediately the alarms blare inhale perfect timing i did say ish okay killed me i'm 99.99999 sure they're talking about raiders like of course they probably are however yeah there is a very similar scene i do not think these two guys were bonding over monuments men but there is a very similar scene in monuments men where mad damon's character triggers one of these and like the whole core has to gather around him and they're like how much do you weigh and he says 175 and then like john goodman gives him a look and he's like no i don't think it's that but john gave him john goodman gives him a look and he's like well it was 175 in college you know like just like a very similar like 185 ish moment i do think it's raiders i obviously think that but i was just like i don't know why i was thinking about monuments men i think about that movie a weird amount why not why not weird amount lanterns movie club this is what i'm hearing you know what might hal and john be referencing at any moment in time add it to the syllabus lethal weapon too the if you're nothing without that ring then you shouldn't have it if you're nothing without that suit then you shouldn't have it comes into play again here because the militia comes in they've got their special glasses so they can see through the darkness guns they fire the darkness guns as how we'll note in short order those seem tailor-made to disable lanterns because you need to be able to to use the ring see very g gray being like hey isn't it weird yeah that they have special anti-spider-man totally so are we building toward john being able to forge constructs without being able to see such as the depth of his artistic inner master builder baiter people didn't listen to the buffy pod i'm gonna be like what is going on you know what serves them right for not listening to the buffy pod uh okay well let's talk about macon's other weenie we go in he is is at his desk they're brought how and how and john are brought by the militia uh into the office macon's at his desk he's in a robe as we'll see shortly and he's on the phone and he's saying sir and 200 ahead and tonight what what is he talking about cattle cattle just because the slaughterhouse business is a part of the never sleeps a part of the but also doing that business in his robe and nothing else real beth and rip dutton vibes here i don't know what i mean a lot of i mean i understand what you're talking about but i don't know what you're talking about okay uh great great intimidation move to just like just amazing get naked but also when he's like what's your medium yeah fetch some charcoal and some good stock not even good paper stock good stock uh and they have it yeah they do are you talented are they like an arty family i mean maybe or they're just prepared for literally any scenario if he had said watercolor i mean he had said mixed medium actually like well and did they have this around before you know oil paints that's my question or because zoe's like i know everything i need to know about this guy or can that fabricator in the warehouse make literally anything and they're like make us some good stock good stock use a little uh the little thing uh i want to say extra hot and then also some good stock well i could go for an old girl gray extra hot that sounds great yeah just want to say that i appreciate this show because didn't have to allow us to linger or on the actual sketch at the end of the scene he is talented yeah he's yes exactly which elephant indeed congrats to william macon uh what did you make of macon asking zoe to stay that was like one of those moments where that felt like a decoy moment to me where it's just sort of like he's in charge and she has to do what he says that was one it's funny because that was one of the moments where i'm like does he definitely know who she actually is it really felt like a i mean i think he's in charge i think he does yeah i don't know interesting i mean who knows i just like that that possibility yeah it's probably a lot more uh logical for him at least to be fully in the know given that he is uh tasked with actually executing the maintenance of this cult uh across rushville i like the idea that she that she just didn't tell him i like it uh how's like can you put your dick away oh stir up partner and share carrie says the same thing the couple that asks him to put his dick away together stays together dad put your dick away dad put your dick away maybe laugh that was dad is an interesting thing for her to call him really weird yeah and she's like it's not like that with jason ritter but like you know not everyone calls their in-law dad at all and she has seemed across the season to have a lot of resentment not seemed has had a lot of resentment for the fact that he is the real source of power in the town and she's like i'm the sheriff i need the power that was that was interesting uh how you know certainly the with the observation about the darkness guns and how they're there for lanterns and and macon doesn't make any attempt to deny it right he's like i told you we're going to be ready for any kind of invasion any potential threat um this is where we get the oh benefactor boss savior god conversation and here's what we learn he did cure my cancer that's how we met zoe was my nurse kept me alive after the doctor said i was a goner then he came worked his magic and everything changed when he showed up crops grow kids thrive and you saw the hospital no one gets sick he takes care of us in exchange for our protection culty um this was the moment i will say when he was like he cured my cancer zoe was my nurse this is the moment where i was like there is no way she is not the manhunter yeah like that is that is the moment where it's like and if we definitely um or a manhunter that's right hal says we're not leaving we're not we're not going sorry we're not gonna go uh and by the way you can't kill me because if you do all the other lancers are gonna show up before you can even hide my body and macon is completely unfazed he says he's not a lantern i'll just kill john instead what i really love is that like yeah um i'll kill john instead and he's like go ahead do it i don't care right uh but i love this larger plan of like we can't kill the lantern we the manhunter or the manhunter cult whatever you prefer we can't kill hal probably can't even kill john because then the other lanterns will show up so all we can try to do is get them to leave get them out of town and so when zoe later is like i'm just trying to protect you can you leave you know darn right and then blowing her up okay maybe if zoe's dead maybe they'll leave right or they think they have you know like all of this is just sort of like can you go yeah can you just go and then we can all go back to pretending right like there isn't a manhunter hiding here that would be great i was really just so struck by leona also being like why are you guys still here yeah that is interesting that is fascinating yeah what are they hiding and how much of it is about carrie's bangs when we see carrie's bangs i hope so okay i hope hector gutierrez boots up the footage of hal just i mean if you're in character you're in character you're in character you're in character you're in if you're a lost fan yeah jack shepherd's back uh flashback bangs are just like an all-time important uh piece of lore so we get a tattoo episode sheriff went between gotham and rushville she went to thailand she met byling and she got some strange tattoos and she said to someone along the way let me tell you about ozcob so carrie at least seemingly in the flow of this episode puts it on the line here by challenging making he says you're making a mistake she will tell hal and john that zoe called her yeah that's interesting right break up the the uh little macon sequence here i'm fascinated by that and then carrie drops the motel gives him a little bit of a scolding i've broken into billy's files i'm this close this was another like i don't know what's happening here i've broken into billy's files i'm this close like so what you know and like you never had the impulse to do to try to learn about this before that's just it doesn't make sense back on carry watch gives hal the ring he says sheriff not even a first date and she says do you ever shut up which was really funny i mean poor hal the the the hector john howe moment um at the slaughterhouse later where in the most high tension there is a ticking three minute clock and a satellite explosive pointed at john's parents and even then there's time for hector to be like is he always this insufferable ah give us john a rifle tells them macon is going to come for them and then john this is when he's posted up he's keeping watch and he's on the phone with his mother and he shares the news about the ring you know they're gonna make me take it and she says bernadette says then take it don't tell me you fell for it for that man and john says oh come on bernadette says he is a charming motherfucker And John says, I know exactly what the fuck he is. My feeling is that you don't have this exchange unless John is, in fact, falling for that man. Do they have? But, like, what's the relationship between John's mom and Hal, other than the scene we've seen? The kitchen scene. Yeah, I mean, I guess just that they have been studying him over the years. Because he's like, how's your mother? Hal's like, how's your mother? I mean. Say hi to your mother for me, you know? It's a great question. How many other interactions have they had? And it would just be over the last couple months. Yeah. But certainly Bernadette and John Sr. have been watching and observing Hal as this fabled figure with this level of, like, that shit that was meant to be ours. So the idea that he keeps people, like, in his thrall because of his charm, that feels certainly like something that they would think. Lights suddenly coming in through the shades. Phone call ends. Gun up. Door opens. It's Zoe. And John keeps that gun up for a long fucking time. So you think he already knows. I think he's like, something's not right here. If he actually knows, then knowingly fucking the Manhunter doesn't. I don't know that that totally tracks for me. But I think he's like, what? You know when he says to her in their little post-coital cuddle sesh, like. I think you're lying to me. You're lying to me. So I think he's like. I think he knows. I think he. I wonder if he knew from, like, the cafe scene. I mean, the fact that once again in this stretch, she's, like, asking questions about Hal. And of course, as we clocked at the time. Yeah. Asking a lot of questions right away about Hal Jordan. And this relationship. So you're a space cop, huh? A space cop. Have bosses. All of that. So not the most subtle line of inquiry about, like, hey, so, like, would you mind telling me some things about Hal Jordan and the Lantern Corps? The Guardian's not asking for any particular reason. Want to go fuck in my truck? Yeah. Normal conversations to have. I did enjoy this sex scene. This was hot. That was great. Really? Huge fan. Everyone looks great. Incredible. Shot really well. I like how the dialogue and, you know, sort of them in the midst. Just Coitle saying goodbye was all sort of edited in out of order. I thought that was really fun and dreamy. I really liked it. Quite, quite, quite good. The cuddling after sex. This is when Zoe's like, it's got to be the last time. You need to go. Your options are to go or die. Got to go. And I don't want you to die, so you got to go. I love that the Manhunter's, like, main weapon is seduction. And she's like, I'm going to come fuck you. And in the after go and be like, you got to go. I just want you to be OK. I'm just trying to protect you. You got to go. You read this all wrong. I don't owe him. He owes me. He was dying when I first met him and I saved his life. And now I'm trying to save yours. Which is like potentially true. Yeah, genuine, self-serving and genuine at the same time. Yes. Yeah. Seems like they have a real connection, real spark. Real spark between. How many people has she had a real spark with, though? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, does she have to seduce the whole town or is it just Macon Senior? You know what I mean? That's, that's. I like that. That the reason Macon just is always like, you know, the taste better off another man's grill is because Zoe has fucked every single person in Rushville. She's like, I just had to. It's just my tactic. Sorry. My defense mechanism. Drives off. Do you think she seduced Abin Sir? It's entirely possible. Yeah. And he's like, oh, fuck. He meant like. Never knew. She said, good luck or I'll fuck. Yeah. Quite amusing when Hal. Is asking about Abin Sir later. And basically just does the full little, little finger, like pull up your hood. Memorable shade. Memorable shade. Zoe drives off and is immediately exploded by a satellite. Just point. Just fucking point. Hal retrieves this. Hal, John and Carrie, who joins him under the protective, under the protective green bubble, are trying to figure out where the satellite came from. And it was incredibly easy to figure that out. Just had to unscrew a plate and then put a serial number on it. Put a serial number into the system. Yeah. And there it was. And John's like, hey, guess what? This is bullshit. That was really great. Like, you think we just like, you're the space cop. You think we just cracked it in the motel room. Yeah. It was such a good John moment. And, you know, credit to Hal because he is ready to just like run right into it. Big green fist. He's like, good job, Junior. Good job, Junior. This is the like, you would have at least given me a hoorah. Yeah. Right. From episode two. And it's like, good job. Yeah. Here's some praise. So I quite like that from both of them. And so you were not, when Hal did the little, like the little just finger, the little finger handhold with Carrie here. And Carrie's like, what am I going to tell Noah? You are his grandmother. You are completely overcome by emotion like I was watching the little handhold. Beautiful. It was. And even just the looking, the way that. When I die. I will mourn you more deeply than that. Then what am I going to tell. We both know I'm going first. Our co-workers. She's my co-workers. And then there will be a very intentional lingering shot of you looking at like an item that I left behind, you know, because we watch her looking at the bracelets like they're my chapstick or something. Oh, yeah. We'll just be right there and you'll be like. An Uncrustable. No, I will have taken that with me to the grave. Like pharaohs of old were buried with their loved ones. You want to like bury me with my Uncrustable? I love a snack, as you know. I love a snack. OK, so Macon had NDAs with Atlas, Vermin, Rucker. But this is Atlas Inc. Hector Hammond. Shout out Peter Sarsgaard and his gigantic Hector Hammond forehead parallax hive rise. I'm so happy for you that you get this modicum of payoff for having rewatched the horrible Green Lantern movie. Incredible. I'm happy for you. Incredible stuff. If anyone has not seen the 2011 film Green Lantern, keep it that way. Now you know what you need to know. That was a fun little little connection there. In the car on the way to the slaughterhouse that is 95 miles away. Hal asked John how he's doing. And this is when John is like stunned, says that Hal never asked him that. And Hal says, your girlfriend blew up in front of you. I'm handling it. Kind of look like you're shutting down your feelings. Real like physician heal thyself stuff from Hal here, I thought. Is this? Sorry. I asked you before we started recording. Is this where they're talking about the other members of the Lantern Corps? Or is it a different scene? Different parade? This is this is the same conversation. Yes. They will talk about the avoiding relationships. And then John will ask, do you talk to other Lanterns? Yes. It is some Lantern Corps place corner. Yeah. OK. Yeah. Squirrels. So, yes. I mean, there's a squirrel called Chip. CH apostrophe P. Great. Love that. Incredible stuff. But the idea of the Lantern Corps. Yes. So this comes from Steve Englehart, who takes over the comic. So Steve Englehart is really controversial and interesting figure, but wrote for both Marvel and DC. And according to him, and you always just like just a just an entire warehouse assault whenever Steve Englehart is like, according to me. OK. Sure. So according to Steve, DC begged him to come over to save them. OK. He had worked at Marvel. He had worked on a Captain America story. The story line, the Nomad story line. So like when Captain America gives up his title, less hot in the comics, but very hot. Inspired the single hottest. Very hot when Steve Rogers appeared. MCU look. But Captain America giving up the Nomad title and it was a Captain America and Falcon comic. And so Falcon being the hero left behind. Steve Englehart is like, good job me. Uh-huh. Black superhero. Look what I was doing in the 70s. Aren't I amazing? So they brought me over to DC. I was working on Justice League of America. And what they asked me to do on Justice League. Was really differentiate the characters on the Justice League. Like we had not really found who Batman was yet. I mean, Steve Englehart, if you listen to him, is like, I'm the reason the 1989 Batman movie is so great. Like I did this. I did that. So like this is these are all of his claims. But I do believe this idea that like DC really looked at sort of what Marvel was doing with their characters. It was like we we have these great characters, but we haven't done a great job of like individuating them. So we have this this Justice League team. And let's really bring out various personalities. And at this time, don't worry about why, but like Hal Jordan's off the table. So Jon Stewart and Guy Gardner are sort of in the mix. And Guy Gardner was really a character really was shaped by Steve Englehart at the time into like who he he didn't invent him, but it like shaped him into who he became. Right. But what I like about all of this Green Lantern Corps stuff and Green Lantern Corps was his idea. So like a lot of lanterns at once. And all kinds of different lanterns. And like he didn't come up with the squirrel that predated him, but he came up with Kilowog, which is like a really important member of the Green Lantern Corps, et cetera, et cetera. Just an incredible sentence. But what he didn't come up with the squirrel that predated him. But what I like about all of this is like you come up with teams like Justice League or the Avengers or the X-Men or the Fantastic Four or whatever. A reason to have these sort of teams of superheroes is like by putting them in contract. Like in close proximity with other heroes, you can really figure out like what their specific identities are, what their individual profile personality profiles are. And especially with something like Green Lantern Corps, when you've got like a bunch of heroes who have the same job, the same title, the same whatever, you know. And so like, you know, it's like on Flash when you have like multiple flashes and you're just sort of like, OK, now I really understand who Barry Allen is because I've met these other flashes. Right. And so it's like I really understand. to understand better who Jon Stewart is because what the fuck you know and so um i just really like this idea you you mentioned this from the beginning the green lantern core is this sort of like connected network and the possibility if we're talking about how jordan is someone who's like no ties darkness no parents like etc etc um and this opportunity for community is here and johnster was like why haven't you taken advantage of it he's like well none of them are human he's like well i'm human what the hell i'm right here but like in general yeah but you hate having me around bond with the squirrel man uh you know i'd love to see it and and we know that he's met he knows about mojo because it's a planet and it's his password you know and so like um the green lantern core existing and how being like but i'm not really part of it is of course very interesting but also just like as as the premise of this show lanterns with an s yes is to not just like introduce us to john stewart and i'm not really part of it but i'm not really part of it and i'm not really part of it and i'm outside of the animated world uh into the live action world off the page of the comic but to show us to these two guys yeah and what is putting these two guys with the same eventual title and job really show us about who they are individually i i love i love all that i really loved that john moved from hell saying like let me give you some advice and it's to avoid real relationships into asking about the core that that was a thought that john had in a connection that he made and something he wanted to understand it makes me think too back to like what we were talking about with the hologram and i was like wondering okay but he's already out of the suit there he's not in the place we find him in 2016 he's still uploading himself but then he stops and like because one you know what when when hal is saying here keep people at a distance for their own safety it's a lonely fucking job and it felt like i was saying earlier in this pod that a real loss had informed that kind of comment from how his parents both of them but like maybe it's a love interest or someone else right carol yeah or what else has happened where he's like i can't get close to anyone anymore right because it's pre-sinestro because or right pre-sinestro betrayal because we have a clarity on that timeline and then you build toward that and it's like okay so the one maybe we go from how it's like how family guy how relationship guy how lantern core guy shit i know it's all gone none of it yeah like that is just so fucking sad it's so sad to think about it and i think it's so sad to think about it and i think about yeah and you know i on the back on carrie carrie watch corner front that little finger grab like we've seen a lot of wisecrack and smart ass shit from hal jordan the like he's falling for this person he can say across this episode to john don't get close don't let people in it's for i'm telling you it's for their safety really it's to protect your own heart right are you nervous about where that leaves yeah i'm worried what's the message of that then okay so if like you're like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh like carrie if his if his fondness for carrie yeah leads him down a path that winds him up frozen on that that bleacher and so then is the message like the one when hal decided to open him up to someone that got him killed i hope not i what what i would still love most is for carrie to actually despite all of the signs maybe that the contrary to be good and fine okay and for them to fall in love and have a lot of sex we only have four episodes left let's get on it tick tock that's the real i mean forget these 36 hours and anton and the alien hit squad when are these two gonna fuck um and for for you know as hal and john both make this progress of kind of rejecting the rigidity of these strictures for how to allow himself to feel happy and to form a connection to somebody that would be wonderful that's my hope right i think it is possible not that how uh it is possible i think that maybe somebody else seeks to take advantage of that like that if hal is forming a connection ridder fucking billy macon coming in interesting secret scroll watch always um honestly if it's jason ridder so funny that would be great so when john's like okay yeah what about the other answer it's i'm a human but you hate that i'm around and i was like yeah i do then john comes in and he's like yeah i'm a human and i'm a human and i'm a human and i'm a human right he's like all right what's the plan yeah give me the ring i'll use you as a decoy okay so we had the decoy comment with the chopper we have the decoy suggestion here which uh how rejects right he's like you're good but you're not as good as me and then just full eric taylor mode when he says i like the confidence though incredible coach was back for a minute there then later with hector i think you're a decoy three distinct moments in this episode where the idea of a decoy is invoked doesn't feel like that's necessarily just going to be contained to this episode and the reveals so what like what do you feel like the the decoy that they're signaling towards is i don't know just all the stuff we already talked about today that's not beyond actually sinestro in the cage it's a decoy maybe yeah oh god um it's not actually the guardian i mean that's that's a we've already talked about this but that wasn't really william macon's dick elephant it was an actual elephant not that one was so funny everything's a distraction from ailey ben ailey ben is just so good it's so good okay they get to the slaughterhouse yeah this is where we get that we can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals we get the pa voice remember security the first step toward a safer environment stay secure stay vigilant and yet not a single person there and when they're like cares that i'm done with these weird people that was really really good really really good also this is why i'm a vegan like great punch-up lines uh inside of this episode jazz that can't be good jazz that can't be good it's very funny killed me yeah uh that was disgusting the laser i mean the portal tech first of all always interesting the the dcu so far just obsessed with portals and pocket dimensions and all sorts that's always fun when we get to see something indeed quite poor cow this was gross this was that felt more like a peacemaker scene to me than a lantern scene did it make you level of blood and violence did make you not want to have a steak i've actually been wrestling with this a little bit in my life in general all meat i have at least i've adam and i have been talking about i feel real conflict because i love yeah i love you do meat i love a steak i love a burger i love a chicken tendy yeah but i love animals and so i feel really increasingly i've been served a lot of like instagram reels lately many of which i've sent to you and steve and then you're like this chat used to just be about cats and now it's just literally all animals and you changed the name of the group chat brutal i'm like i've gotten all of these reels lately about like a chicken who's a pet and it's like look at this chicken i should you know the octopus thing that happened to a lot of people look at this hippo look at this chicken look at this fascinating creature you know what you would love i live the ducks who eat the peas i love where i live in silver lake is like right by some kind of pita headquarters there isn't a disturbing pita billboard like right by my house constantly on rotation i would not love that goal is and it's at a light that i have to sit at and its goal is just to like devastate me you know i don't know i feel conflict i do my best friend who's uh also you um but also my other best friend great save uh won't eat pork because of what she's learned about how intelligent pigs are yeah but then it's like this is a lot of people with an octopus right that's where a lot of people are like the most intelligent creatures yeah i don't really eat and then i mean yeah but some people do and then they're like i can't do it anymore so then it's like but where do you draw the line anyway i'm at chickens too dumb to live absolutely i feel very tortured about it lately so this scene really i was like oh boy a lot of important people in my life are vegetarian and i support i support this lifestyle um i don't know if i'm prepared to commit chicken would be tough for me to give up i could probably give up pork would be fairly easy actually i don't eat it that often i do i miss a pot sticker but that's about it um i hate so much bacon beef yeah i mean i had a burger literally last night and ribs you had a burger and ribs yeah yeah and deviled eggs my second time getting deviled eggs this week those other deviled eggs are really delicious um but chicken would be really hard as you know i love a tendy and a chicken wing what about like a seitan tendy a fake meat tendy i i actually quite like the breading yeah it's the breading and the dip sauce that's really like okay it's something to think about i'm arjuna is in the control yes we are vulnerable pita you can we can be got apparently just keep sending those instagram reels to mallory and she'll send them to me the algorithm i am at least you don't hit me with the like horrible slaughterhouse uh images it's not it's actually not it's not that i would not watch those so then i that wouldn't be in my algorithm it's more than i'm like look at these look at this chicken who became a pet oh my god look at these ducks who people have like they've fallen in love with the golden retriever yeah and then i have to confront my own hypocrisy and then with with a burger in one hand and then you're like using the rib to scroll how do you scroll if you're eating ribs in a burr at the same time oh my god question for the ages this is really good meal I appall I appall myself horrible uh they find hector in his office typing away drops john's parents address if i die they die hal's like yeah you're just acting like you invented it you know great stuff from hal here sets the alarm three minutes times tick in and uh plays the tape of john talking shit about how which we have discussed many times i thought that john here had the real good grace to look pretty embarrassed by this uh that felt important and a good reminder to us that these microphones are always on always on hal stays cool quizzes hector oh what color was i been sir my gut tells me this is bullshit you're a decoy i'm gonna call your bluff an old friend told me some stuff about manhunters this is the crystal heart thing refers to sinestro here as an old friend i was like oh no when i heard that but maybe sinestro is right like you said who knows maybe it's fine is it fine probably not just because the guardians are bad doesn't mean sinestro should i get like a hoodie to match the mug i mean i'd go all in at this point okay like a trekker hat sinestro was right that would be great okay you could pull that off i think right at home on the macon ranch uh would have cared about john's parents before i just heard that recording quote but now i'm starting to think you know a hero's journey it should really only start after the parents are dead how jordan come on the podcast all time we would love to talk about the hero's journey with give us your cambellian days out we would love to hear absolutely incredible let's hear let's hear what you how you reconcile the idea of refusing the call with the demand of the ring that you accept the call immediately no refusing the call inside of your hero's journey interesting i mean incredible stuff here um okay so john flipping out about his parents can i read the same one we got from christy please about sort of her critique of what we saw from the hero's journey john's parents uh in in last episode she's she said i would think a fearless boy is a loved boy a guarded boy a boy but i'm born under a lucky star nothing bad can happen to you because the guardians are watching out for you the men on the street can't harm you not because you are brave but because you are lucky and chosen and blessed if i wanted to create a fearless boy i'd brainwash him into overconfidence maybe that's partly why hal was fearless and the point the writers are trying to make i just don't think john is fearless at all i think his parents were cruel and he's conditioned to follow orders and he's conditioned to follow orders and he's conditioned to follow orders regardless of fear which is so sad because they express that fear uh that they express that fear is a normal part of love a man should be afraid to die when his family needs him a boy should be afraid to kill his brother's mom but i hope that by the end of the show we learn that we can't really be human without fear we can't really love without fear how can we be a good guardian without love so like i don't think christy is saying anything that like we haven't said versions of in terms of like this show is is i do not think christy is saying anything that the show is trying to say that what john and bernadette did to john is the right path forward to fearlessness um but again i am curious about yes he is fearful and obviously like born out of love and fear and protection for his parents yeah yes he's still talking to them on the phone and stuff like that but like i i because i i love john and i'm rooting for him and i think he is a great candidate for a fate that i actually don't think is a great fate for anyone i don't think being green lantern seems like it's great but but if he wants it then i want it for him but like there has to be some kind of reckoning with with what was done to him because i just don't think we can leave it there and be like well that was the path forward you know yeah i mean i think what we see from john here the fear of loss of someone close to you is where john senior was and what bernadette works her way back toward eventually saying you know that you it's it's not a bad thing to not want to hurt the people you love or of course by extension to lose the people you love yeah you know the the language choice of like for the in the you're obsolete mr jordan hector line here like that must be terrifying there are so many moments here that are a direct appeal to fear right art that must be terrifying it's just another version of are you afraid so the fact that like in a sequence where john is exhibiting such very authentic organic fear i would be deeply deeply afraid of losing my parents because despite it all i love them and i don't want anything to happen to them hal's fear is being pressed very directly um it's all there for it's all there for all of them house gambit works so that's just gonna cement the like my god my god stuff right my gut's fine carrie's fine this is fine they're safe so that's just a blip my old my old friend my old friend my old friend cinny what if you were fucking wrong john says like okay your gut you're gambling with my parents life with my fear i'm never wrong i'm never that's what you say right especially during the fantasy football drafts right i'm never wrong i posit more that fantasy football is about knowing you'll be wrong many times and being able to pivot overcome being able to having the will charge the path to overcome through your fear um how can a man be brave if he's afraid that is the only time a man can be brave hector gutierrez engineering student he came to offer the tech to help my family who isn't it obvious will make it billy billy i mean there has is i mean maybe not but like it feels like there should be a reason they're both named will make in but maybe that's just john stewart senior john stewart junior just sort of like this is what we do here maybe this universe frosty car ride home yeah boy how so let me tell you of all the striking things the thing that i was most struck by i mean this sincerely how jordan's sitting quietly we just have not seen that from him he's just talking a mile a minute talking shit ripping on singers and his face was severe and he was driving and processing and connecting the dots as he's about to say yeah about what this all about zoe yeah he's like they keep saying he and you and that john knew and that john had figured it out of course but like i feel like i believe hal in this moment when he gives john basically like one more a chance here same to be honest about i was i was ready to forgive you i've given you yeah like i believe him uh but john is just sort of like uh yeah uh making senior obviously i couldn't be that lady i've been fucking i loved this so much because like as we talk about fear and fearlessness through the lens of connection attachment emotion john can say all of the things he says here i haven't told the guardians because i'm doing i'm doing this with you i didn't want to tell you because i wasn't sure i yeah i started to think that this might be what was going on hal is saying don't get close to anyone and john did and now he's like yeah i was definitely willing to make it like badly clearly lying kind of discombobulated in a way that is not true to the john that we have seen so far so like is this the brainwashing influence at work here here's what we we get on that front that hal shares with john presumably because sinestro has told him this right they're ruthless this is my old friend they assimilate into communities by attaching to weak spots tough to hear if you're john wolf yeah they find a path to power every time and if they identify a threat to that power they'll manipulate that threat into believing anything they want them to remind you of anyone we know i will just say that obviously hal's talking about zoe they find a path to power every time and if they identify a threat to that power also describes carrie and the way she's talking about making right sure carrie now i'm nervous again i just want these two to fucking be happy get a second nightstand hal what if both the lanterns i mean he's a manhunter i mean that would be great that would be great why not why not seem seem like it was fun it seems like everything in rush is going fine seems like as long as you don't provoke the manhunter everything will be fine and that's what zoe's told everyone uh this was also a satisfying scene on the everyone's lying all the time front because obviously john is lying but even how i agree with you i had the same like when he was like i was i gave you a chance here and it would have been fine but the other like i believe you it's all good really like that's a register like a vocal tone that we have not really seen or heard from hal jordan so everything's a fucking mess um john saying he was going to give the ring back you believe it believe it completely believe it but with a kernel of doubt i choose to believe i choose to believe as well i choose to i choose to believe as well uh guardians break saying that hal broke the vow and he says i did i saw sinestro you might not want to just accept everything that the guardians tell you look at what they're doing to me this is one of those things where hopefully like that is received and processed and let's go back in time when leon is in your uh projecting herself into your motel room without being invited in and is like oh your father's weakness horrible horrible your mother was full of shit actually he told you about the crystal heart among other things now that builds into the ruthless assimilating attaching to weak spots but i mean it also just makes our theory brains go nuts what else is sinestro saying among other things what other things about whom what will i'll do with that how susceptible is how very to what sinestro most interesting if he's very susceptible. I agree. I'm concerned. I'm concerned. I'm worried. Hal pulls over. Call the alien head squad. They don't want me there. Tell them to meet you. This is smart of Hal, at least. He doesn't just crash the car. He's like, make the call first. Bring them in. Then I'll run you into a telephone pole. So nervous as soon as he started to drive again. So nervous. John hangs up and there's that great tense moment where he turns to look at Hal and Hal says, I really did forgive you. I thought you'd be honest about Zoe. And the just the like, OK, here's what I pieced together. I thought it was weird that you didn't seem sad when your girlfriend blew up. But I thought maybe you liked her. I really love the way that Kyle Chandler said that line. I knew you liked her. Yeah. Yeah. Also, I know that because I'm a person currently falling, falling for a manhunter. Do you think Carrie's a manhunter? What if Carrie's an alien? What does that mean about like the the the senior photo from Gotham High? What if Carrie's something else? Senior photos. I'll be banged something else. She's a guardian. Oh, interesting. Are we going to see other guardians? That was another my bullshit detector went off when Leanna was like, I checked with all the other guardians. Are we sure? Oh, yeah. She gone rogue. Yeah. Like we what if Leanna's just doing her own shit out here? I would believe it of Laura Linney. I believe anything of Laura Linney. Who else should be? Do you want like the rest of the cast of Ozark? You want a Jason Bateman guardian and a Julia? I'd be thrilled. Julia guardian. I'd be thrilled. Let's get Wyatt in here. OK. Tom Pelfrey guardian. I mean, that would be wonderful. Tom Pelfrey would be great in the show. You would. Fantastic. Then I saw you freak out about your parents like connected the dots. You're not sad about Zoe because, you know, she's alive because, you know, she's a manhunter. Why didn't you tell me? You're good, Junior. Great moment there. I haven't told the guardians anything we've been doing because you asked me not to. Oh, except that I'm old and tired. Sorry about the rental. Bye. That was a real like, you hurt my feelings. Like, I'm a person and you hurt my feelings, except that I'm old and tired. I loved that. So good. Hope John's OK. I mean, we know he is, but like, damn. I know. What's going to happen with these two next episode? My God, I'm nervous. Well, I think the enemy of my enemy is my friend. So like, even if they're fighting between the two of them, if there's like, yeah, a angry alien force is now invading Rushville and then like, what will the citizens of Rushville do? And I have to imagine that John and Hal have to be on the same side inside of that fight. Right. And or do you think John is going to be like, I'm team Zoe, actually. Sorry. No, that seems I fucked her. It was too good. How good could the sex have possibly been? Out of the truck? You don't know the possibilities right now. That was great. Like with some room to move. Boy, that was really something. Yeah. The like many reminders that the the Anton alien hit squad will blow up the town if the manhunter is not presented. So like the stakes are clear that we should we should note we have seen in episode one in the the final scene 2026 when John is back driving through town in the snow. Oh, the Macon Ranch is destroyed. Decimated. Yeah. Is that because of what's about to happen in episode five is 10 years between those moments. It could have been something else. And no one rebuilt. What's going on in Rushville? I mean, they're all multitasking in a time to rebuild the ranch. Maybe that means they were busy doing other stuff because they had like bars to run. OK, I don't know anything else that we haven't hit Theory Corner or otherwise. I feel like we really did it. Fantastic. We will be back for episode five next Monday. We will be back between now and then for Buffy season five, part two. Delightful. Thank you. Carlos isn't here today, but thank you to Carlos. Thank you eternally, Carlos. Thank you to Scott Lee for producing this episode. Scott loves this show. Scott loves Lantern. So this is just exciting for everyone. Thank you to everyone involved. Thank you to Jacob, Arjuna, Jomie, our entire Green Lantern core. And the squirrel. Chip. And the squirrel. Chip. How did you say Chip was spelled? C-H-apostrophe-A-P. Incredible stuff. Incredible stuff. Until next time, just keep in mind that we should be able to concentrate and take personal questions at the same time. Bye. Bye.