‘Lanterns’ Episode 2 Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

This episode of The Ringiverse is presented by Searchlight Pictures. More than ever, America needs a laugh. Enter Super Troopers to the rescue. The cult comedy classic returns with the most offensive installment yet, with Super Troopers 3. A debaucherous bachelor party, an over-the-top wedding, and a dangerous drug smuggling ring all threaten the troops' future. Fill your liter of cola and roll up to the multiplex for Super Troopers 3. Meow playing only in theaters. Get tickets. Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun. An army hung on her every word. My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. T'was a lovely SUV, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it. Tonight, we feast. An offer you can feast on. Sell your car today. On Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. Meow. You guys might have heard the news, but if you haven't heard the news, gotta break it to you right now. Groundbreaking historic news. The Midnight Boys are coming to New York Comic Con, baby. We are thrilled to announce we'll be hosting a panel at the Javits Center during the NYCC festivities. If you are a New York Comic Con badge holder, please come see us on Saturday, October 10th at 4.30 p.m. in room 40. 408 at the Javits Center. That's Saturday, October 10th at 4.30 for the panel. Remember, you have to have a New York Comic Con badge in order to hang with us, but that's okay. If you need any more updates, make sure to follow us at the Midnight Boys, and we'll keep you updated. Y'all, we can't wait to be in the Big Apple this fall, guys. Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew. Welcome to the Ringerverse. This is, of course, the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. We are Steve, the architect, Almond, the builder, and Tinkerbell. Episode two of "Lantern" is directed by James Ha, written by Vanessa Bain and Kelly and Chris Mundy. John's day starts with a flying lesson from Hal, the two bicker, and John ultimately fails, constructing a living bird instead of taking flight. Hal sends his trainee on a side quest to retrieve his lantern battery so he can continue his investigation alone. Hal discovers William Macon and Carrie knew aliens had invaded Rushville, but wanted to keep it secret from the intergalactic cop. Carrie and Hal come to an understanding after Jordan gets shot for trespassing on Macon's land. This culminates with Jordan dirty macking on the married cop. Meanwhile, John is kidnapped by the same sect of aliens that invaded Rushville. They reveal that a Manhunter is hiding in the Nebraska town. Manhunters are a technological precursor to the Green Lanterns who committed mass atrocities in the name of justice. The aliens tell John that Hal can't be trusted. This sentiment is underlined when the alien leader shares that only an advanced Green Lantern can conjure a living creature and have it survive that far from the ring. The aliens give John 48 hours to contact them with the whereabouts of the Manhunter before they send more of their kind to blow up the town. John and Hal reunite. Stuart tells Hal about what he's discovered about the Manhunters, which leads the Green Lantern to have a conversation with his imprisoned mentor, Sennestro. That has been your Midnight Manifest for Lanterns. I'll start us off. The train is running. The second episode is cooking. I'm fully invested in this world. I was like, to me, there was so much that they were doing in the pilot. It was almost like a can they do it, can they do it? And it was a sigh of relief that like, OK, we have a good show. Episode 2 was one where I'm like, OK, the mystery is cooking. The chemistry is electric. And most of all, they're making so many changes to the Green Lantern mythos. And even when I don't like all of them-- Say more about that. --I find them fascinating. Say more about that. Well, to me, for this show, the difficulty of it is perfect example. Storytelling-wise, it makes perfect sense for how to send John to get his battery. Now, usually in Green Lantern comics, the battery is something that you can carry with you, especially in later runs. Same thing with the suit. The suit is something that is nine times out of 10 conjured by the ring. To ground this, I think it makes so much more emotional sense. And just in terms of like, CGI sense, for the battery to be a physical thing that you have to go get. Same thing with the suit, where it's like, it gives how-- you have this pathos for him almost, where you're like, oh, the suit is something that he has to wear. So he can choose whether he needs to put it on. It's something-- it's not something that's automatic that comes with the ring. And to me, those make the storytelling just way more deeper. And it also makes a character that's so powerful in the comics and can do anything, it grounds them. So it's something like, when Hal gets shot, we know the ring can stop a bullet. But you want to feel that Kyle Chandler can get hurt. You want to put him in peril. So I think that's a phenomenal observation. Give this-- I give King, Mundy, and Lindelof credit for doing something that sometimes superhero shows don't do, which is craft a world that can sustain itself, rather than make-- I don't want this to be a holistic criticism of our superhero shows. But sometimes these shows start to become a series of interconnected stunts that the story just has to get you to the next grand thing that happens, right? So you're not really in the world. You're in the world as far as the world can sustain you for the next gigantic lightsaber battle or flying fight. This world can sustain itself. You can just be in this world and be content to be there. Because there's so much intrigue. You're on your back foot. The chemistry between the two leads always keeps you guessing. And just being in Rushville, it's a world of mystery. Is it this-- what's happening? Like, there's intergalactic fucking shit happening in a dusky, podunk, shitheel, small Nebraska town. And that intrigue keeps you connected to it. What you said about Green Lantern is also fascinating because of the way the Green Lantern character has failed in live action. So the Ryan Reynolds movie in live action was this, like, fantastical journey of space, power, and space wizards. It was almost campy. It was an animated suit, a CGI suit, and all of that stuff. They give you Kilowog right away. Right away. Like, the entire deal. This is all of those powers, but it's about men, the men who wield them. And it almost feels like the Green Lantern ring is the least of Hal Jordan's powers. Hal Jordan is cunning. And he's brilliant. Resourceful. And he's resourceful. And he's all those-- the Green Lantern ring seems like almost-- he only-- it seems like a break the glass emergency thing. He's not around wielding that, which is why when the ring is running out of power, it makes it so interesting. Because you go, is he going to be just as brave when he doesn't have it? And he is. Because it's really not about the ring making Hal Jordan a hero. That's not what makes him a hero. What makes Hal Jordan a hero is who Hal Jordan is. And this show has done a better job in two episodes of making us understand that than almost any other superhero show that I've seen, to be honest with you. I mean-- "Daredevil" is very close, though. Yes. "Daredevil" does it well. Kyle Chandler went for, like, 75 points in this episode. I thought he was incredible. Not to be-- like, it's only been two episodes. You know, I don't want to be all hyperbolic. But this is, like-- like, so far, one of my favorite-- superhero TV show performances, like, ever. What he's doing with the cop, going to the ranch, just being, like-- my first comp was Sean Spencer. I don't know if you guys have seen "Psych" or whatever. But, like, that type of-- that type of person who is, like, so annoying, just, like, a little-- like, very off-kilter. But at the end of the day, they're right, right? And so they're going around on the phone with John, picking up the bodies from the morgue, and, like, having a conversation like it's regular degular. Going to the town hall meeting, and, like, interrupting, and doing his whole thing. And, like, this is a character, like-- under normal circumstances, like, if you were the cop, you'd be annoyed, too. Come here, doing my job, this and that. But watching him, like, solve the problem and be like, you guys, not only do you, like, have technology that you can't afford that's detecting aliens and not metal for some reason, your father-in-law is the guy behind it. Why is that? He came around a hunch. Like, he knows ball. And despite all of his misgivings and all of his, like, idiosyncrasies, he's still right. And you still love that character, because Kyle Chandler is playing him in such a perfect way that despite all the guff he's giving John, and, like, John, like, literally at the end is slamming the door, like, yo, I can't believe it. John still at the end knows that that guy is still the best man for the job. And despite the people telling him, hey, do not tell this guy, he turns around not only because, like, John is honor-bound, John is duty-bound, but because he's the guy that can solve the problem. That's the magic of the show. That's why the show, like, two episodes, I'm having an excellent time. And you mentioned being grounded. And that's the thing that I was actually worried about with the show, because, to me, grounded has often translated to we're scared to be a comic book show or a comic book movie. And we take things too seriously. And we take things, like, kind of-- we, like, mute the actual-- the inherent silliness or inherent lightheartedness of it being a superhero show in order to make a story that we can take seriously. This show actually has an amazing balance to where not only can it be funny at times, but it's also not afraid of utilizing all of these things about Green Lantern that make the character grounded and no air quotes attached to that. The fact that Hal is operating in a world where he knows he's a superhero and he doesn't exactly exert authority, but he just kind of walks about the world as if he knows that he can blow anything up with this magical ring. No, like, normal person without superpowers is going to take two corpses out of a morgue and run them through-- and drag them through a metal detector unless you knew that you were this-- if you had utmost authority that people wouldn't understand. John appealing to that level of respect that he has for Hal and essentially doing, like, his piece. I don't know what that was. - I don't know what that was. The brothers trying to figure it out. Something else about something that the show is doing that is really important to the character of the Green Lantern in the DCU is that there's a thought that anybody could be the Green Lantern. Because the Green Lantern is a ring, and the ring gives you your power, that anyone could do it. You think about Batman, you know that everyone couldn't be Batman. I couldn't be Batman. Batman has a suit. Batman has all of these gadgets. Batman has all of these toys. But Batman built all of those things as extensions of who he already is. So the Batarangs are dangerous because he knows how to throw them. All of the tech is basically problems that he solved in the past, and he goes, I need a Bat answer for this. I need an answer for when I'm jumping off something. I need an answer for when I'm doing all of this stuff. So all of that stuff, you know that only Batman could have thought that up because it's a Batman thing. The Green Lantern ring is different because you put it on, and then whatever you can create with your will, it feels like anyone could learn to use it. What the show is doing is showing you why not anyone could be a Green Lantern. It's showing you the difference between Stuart and Jordan, and not just the difference between each other, but the difference between them and everybody else. And one very important moment in that is when John decides to tell Hal that he was contacted by this group of aliens. Because that is something that, in a lot of movies and shows, that that character wouldn't have done. That they would have taken their own side mission and their own opportunity not to hold something over Jordan's head, but to dig into this mystery for themselves to see what they could see. Because these people didn't come to Jordan because they don't trust Jordan. Also, to drive a wedge between the two characters. Hey, what is it about him that they don't trust? Do I need to. But that's not what he does. Because part of the reason why he's qualified to be a Green Lantern is because it's a gigantic organization and he respects the structure, to your point, of that organization. But these two characters are not just separated for themselves. They seem like two guys that are completely also unique and talented for the world that they're in, which the show's doing a fantastic job of. Do you think, because obviously they had the Barack Obama joke, this is David Lindelof, creator of HBO's Watchmen, where it's interesting to me that they're leaning into the cop aspect of the show, where the Green Lantern ring is almost like a firearm, where Hal keeps telling John, it's how you use it. It's when you use it. It is not something in the comic books. The ring is something where it's like, you can make all this fantastical shit. If I need to fly, if I need to do this, if I need to do that, I can use the ring. And it's interesting to me that the way the ring is portrayed in this is almost Hal being like, if you have to use this when you don't need it, it shows a level of weakness. It shows a lack of character. Because to me, it reminded me of like Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul, where this is a process show, where it is like you are seeing the process of Hal having to drag bodies out of the morgue, solve a mystery, go back and forth, where you're like, he could have waited until he had the ring, until John got back and probably done this shit in half the time. But Hal is a character that knows, hey, part of solving a mystery is being down on the ground with the people asking questions. And it's interesting to me, even that like John, what makes him good is he sees how Hal was shot. This is a sniper. And he's like, oh, he got you. That was a warning shot. And I think what Hal is realizing is like John is so powerful. If I just give him this thing, is he going to rely on it too much? Think about the difference in the conversation, the difference in their perspectives and the conversation that they had about the $20 bill. So John goes, hey, you just used the ring to counterfeit a $20 bill. John buttoned up process, structure. You just counterfeited money. That is wrong. You broke the law. That for Jordan was a, I need to use this. Because- Willpower. I use my willpower, right? But he had to do it. Why did he have to do it? Because it was part of a grand plan. He needed a $20 bill because he needed to continuously play that song all night long to rile those guys up, to have the fight with them, to get arrested, to go and be in the same room with the guy so that he could interrogate him. So the ring is a means to an end. Meanwhile, Stewart is criticizing the power in which you use it. Do you use it to cut corners? Do you use it to do something that's illicit? He's like, how should this ring be used? Is this ring a source of power or is it an extension of the wielder of it? And that's like, in this episode, taking the energy away from it and making John have to go on a trek to give Hal intergalactic power was very interesting. He gets beat up on that trek. He has to feed his, he has to feed his fucking pet on that trek. Did he learn something that puts him in a weird power position with him and immediately gives that power up? So whenever John Stewart does get the ring, which, at the end of the first episode, it doesn't seem like Jordan has it, and it doesn't seem like Stewart has it. But how much does John need it is now my question where I'm like, if he's able to build living constructs without the ring being on his feet, that's also a mystery of, is this why the guardians picked him? Did the guardians sense something about the way he was raised, his willpower, where almost he's in an Anakin position where this nigga got midichlorians, he gonna go through this? That's how they were talking? That's how the aliens were talking about him? They like, hey, yo, your man didn't tell you, but this is my van shit. Yeah. Nah, man, come on, man. He gotta have the ring, bro. It's Green Lantern, man. He gotta have it. No, he's gotta have it, but how much does he need it on his finger? Like, the minute he sees Hal's ring, he's like, nah, that's my ring. I think that's a bit of a stretch if he can make a construct while someone else is wearing it. Yeah. Is that crazy? No, that's, I mean, that is pretty crazy. But to your point, though, I mean, movies do this all the time where they take a character, it's like, all right, like, karate kid. You need to learn karate. Cool. Wax on, wax off. You know what I mean? Like, you're not really fighting. We're gonna teach you, you don't touch a ball for the first three weeks of practice, right? And then you get, once you start, then you're like, oh, I get it. Now it's just second nature. Like, what they're doing. And it's working really well. I asked you guys a question just early. Who's the Manhunter? Oh, I have thoughts. I have two. I think Zoe is a red herring. Because they want you to think that Zoe's the Manhunter. I think they want you to think that Zoe's the Manhunter, but she's in the running. Part of me is, I'm like, when Sheriff Kerry was like, oh, I'm from Gotham, I'm like, hmm. Brother, how are you? So either she and Hal Jordan are in love and they're gonna have an affair or something, or she is the, the Manhunter. Because she got all the answers, right? The first episode, she knew the dude was an alien already. Second episode, she's like, yeah. Like, when she pulls up on him in the car, yeah, I knew this. But she gets in the hospital and she's like, hey man, what about Sinestro? And she's like, yeah, I read it on. I'm like, I'm sure you did. When they're walking out of the hospital and they got all the, like, all the unwrapped medical equipment and she's just like, answering them questions easy. I'm like, you don't got no questions? This don't seem peculiar to you. At first I thought it, I thought it was Zoe at first, but then once she started, like, I was like, you have a quick answer to a bunch of shit that's real weird. That's real weird. It's either, like, it might be the biggest red herring of all time, but I'm like, yo, this is, this seems pretty like, this seems like a layup. Maybe, maybe we're not, maybe we haven't seen the entire picture yet. But for right now, she got it. She's number one on the, on the list. Steve? Yeah, I, I'm really curious who that might be. It might, it's probably, I'm just more curious as to how many Manhunters there really are, like, on Earth. Just to, just to know that, like, this is, like, an established thing, because once I knew that Manhunters were an established thing in this world, and not only that, but they have, like, a basically, like, a CIA working against them. I think I'm more so curious as to what technology that Earth or they have to do that, because the way that they inject those memories into John's psyche just to make them understand their cause, I think is a lot more interesting. Again, something that I bought wholesale at the risk of sounding grounded, because another show would just, like, kind of torture him and just be like, you're getting us this information. But instead, they basically inject him with memories. They inject him with memories and then they rely on what they know about him for that to animate him. I thought that scene worked really well. Really, really well. Because I think a lesser show would have, and once again, I'm sorry to say it like this, because they're the competition. I think because the MCU pumped so much money into their shows, they would, they would show you the aliens and the Manhunters attacking or whatever. But to me, the restraint, and obviously it was, like, a budget thing, but the restraint of being like, we're going to trust that Pierre can act how it would feel like to witness a genocide from this gun, and it's such a comic book idea. Oh, yeah. But I was just like, it worked for me, because I'm like, the interesting thing is not to show the CGI mess. The interesting thing is to be like, okay, John now, knows how dangerous the Manhunters are, at five minutes he did not even know that they existed right yeah so i think the man hunter is the grandson interest the football grandson with the football quarterback i'll stay yeah i think let me tell you why this this is i you might be cooking this is my out fucking crazy fucking take okay this is my crazy fucking take this is my crazy bird brain because it's probably gonna end up why should be like making my that would be they throw they throw us the whole off the scent the whole time and then at the end of it it's making but i think that is the grandson and i'll tell you why because their marriage doesn't really make any sense the marriage of uh making son and the sheriff jason ritter and their marriage doesn't make any sense none of the relationships make any sense so their marriage doesn't seem to be real the marriage between making and zoe doesn't seem to be real it seems that there is something that is connecting all of these people and kind of making them be in proximity to one another you don't really know like why they're all together and there's probably something at the center of it and the only person that's like not involved in that that doesn't have any agency would be the most powerful one and that would be the kid and the end and like the kid would be the um the kid would be the unnamed person that runs everything this the benefactor the benefactor right this kind of ancient like whatever thing that has taken the most innocent uh form for all of us and it would be the kid it also would make that football scene now makes a lot of sense because you're just like is this a random scene where it's basically just to get us to the point where john sees zoe and is like grandmother it might make more sense that they put that there to be like no the manhunter has been looking at john this entire fucking there's only one scene that disproves it is the end of the first season of my the kid is the manhunter thing right the end of the first episode he goes he's playing football now is any good he's all state well he could have laid low for that whole if if he's discovered at the end of this timeline this first timeline 2016 is clearly no or maybe not maybe john knows something wait but he's been there for what for since the manhunter so how is like that manhunter must have killed abin sir when he got to rushville so that would mean he would have been there 20 years yeah but you take other shapes but taking other shapes so all right and this is why i don't want to brush past the zoe part because she has a conversation with john which is a very interesting conversation between two two characters that have white partners and it would be it would be a very funny joke if william was married to essentially what is an alien in a manhunter where it was just like you see it all the time the white dude really racist but he got like an asian wife or a latina wife and you like part of me was like is that yeah that's a bit of an again on the nose metaphor so let's do our top the kid i like the kid the kid is but that's but that's definitely the kid is inspired the kids the kids inspired but that's a galaxy brain in it you are who is the manhunter rankings okay i think carrie's number one so carrie's number one i think zoe's number two zoe's number two kid is number three to be can you think kid over over making key i can't make it so obvious yeah it's way too obvious i think i think carrie is way too obvious you think carrie is way too obvious way too obvious got so many answers is is a step ahead of how at every point right yeah i know this of course i know right huh interesting but you didn't want him to have jurisdiction maybe it's because like i she like she mentions all the time her and her father-in-law don't really get along so she's trying to you know get one up on him whatever but it just seems to me like you got a lot of answers for a lot of questions that nobody else got so let's let's talk about the two characters that we let the only two characters that we know are not the manhunter is uh stewart and jordan unless it is one of them maybe it is but that would be tough right like it that would be tough that i mean i i'm at the point i don't even know if how jordan is really dead like part of me is thinking if the manhunter can be anyone the reason that maybe carrie and john when they see how are like and he doesn't have the ring he doesn't have the ring i'm like did he did like did did how fake his death to throw the manhunter off could be so if we know that those two guys let's say that what asher we assume that those two guys aren't the man yeah the only people left in the cast are zoe making the kid making son and carrie it might be the lawyer just because a lot of times i'm like wait why is the lawyer in this he really ain't doing shit he kind of the comic relief he's a little bit too quiet for me on the side so of those five people then our number one manhunter suspect is we said carrie yeah i think carrie number two is zoe yes yes okay women i'm going three is it three is the kid you think the kid is three because it was a really it's a really interesting argument maybe not but a man i would put uh jason ritter at three make it or the kid at four okay i could go with that and then and then wait so let me pitch this because this is what i keep watching and i'm like because we're breaking this out so let's just make sure say it again carrie one zoe two jason ritter at three uh the the kid at four and uh making f5 okay like it now let me pitch you guys on this oh because i've been i've been like hmm damon lindelof monday i've been doing this too long part of me thought it was budget concerns but like as well like the cia agent hmm there's no one in the streets yeah for the last two episodes if you really think about it like they're in a town but they really don't be talking to too many people in the town part of me is like is this a whole town of manhunters i'm like oh oh like is is everyone almost a manhunter because i'm just like why aren't wow why aren't there why is it there this isn't like a twin peaks thing where it's like everybody in the town is a character right this is like they don't wait a minute what if the alien tracker in the town is not to test who is an alien but who isn't but who isn't an alien no oh wait a minute those guys were definitely aliens yeah but why would you put it in a metal detector where like hundreds of people are going in but what if those guys were aliens but what if the but what if the thing is to figure out who's not an alien if it doesn't or a different type of alien maybe different types of aliens i'm just thinking about it's a galaxy brain take i'm like these fucking townspeople are fucking acting weird it's not like a regular town maybe they all fucking manhunters because think about this the green lantern comes to your town to investigate whether or not your town has aliens and you're trying to get them to leave like you're trying to get the green lantern who which this is all about the green lantern is only one thing about the show that is kind of like almost at least to this point has been kind of under discussed which is the green lantern would have essentially been like the world's first superhero right or like one of them right right yeah in 86 he predates the superman correct because if we're going by the superman uh opening many humans have existed for a long time yeah superheroes have existed in this world for a while ever since what does the opening say because someone bring it because like i don't remember they did the mural they did like three decades in um the hall of justice so there have been heroes since like world war ii almost i want to say so okay superman so the metahumans because i don't remember what the opening here we go what did it say three centuries ago the first super superpowered beings known as the metahumans appeared on earth three centuries gods and monsters three decades ago an extraterrestrial baby was sent in a spacecraft to earth a three years ago that baby now grown announced himself as superman okay so that's where i got confused i thought that superman announced himself and then that was superheroes came no no no they metahumans have been around for centuries right and so when so i mean if metahumans have been around for centuries when green lantern came around and they realized that they were aliens niggas was probably like so nigga yeah right you know what i'm saying so so that makes a lot of sense as to why everybody's not freaking out more but even still having said that like green lantern is there and rather than oh my god green lantern help us figure out our alien problem is like we got it leave yeah also think about the first episode everybody was excited to see how and no one is excited to see not in the town not in the town i was like oh because green lantern he's like a celebrity he's a hero everybody's trying to take pictures i'm like why is everybody in fucking rushville let me tell y'all something right now man let me tell y'all something right now y'all go to vos for the theory shout out boss vos man shout out my guy vos y'all go to heavy spoilers for the theories man shout out to paul shout out you can get the theories right here too man coming from we coming from them corners like we get the theories right here too man has anybody given you a theory on the level of it's the little boy this is some david lindelof shit whatever with any of his tv shows you like bro bro do you remember how you felt like you watching this whole watchman thing and you're like dr manhattan is not in this yeah they give you a story of adrian veidt which was this is fucking great amazing like a little off court jesus christ everybody's fucking going crazy and then you find out that yaya's character she calls him john and then you're like wait what yeah boom the last person you'd expect saying could be the kid i was also thinking if how really is dead a killer second season they should flip the cop dynamic they should let the black cop in john be in charge and then kyle rainer should be the little homie oh the little homie so i mean we're arguing like who's the manhunter who do you guys think the benefactor is because they spent a lot of time in this episode being like who's who's funny operation the benefactor a manhunter i think the benefactor is the manhunter yeah please don't say they're gonna do the thing where they're like the manhunter created ipods and oh that's how we got technology i like when they do that shit i was thinking like that's it in like in a in a like in a smaller world or like in a like it's they just be like it's lex right like or lex or maximal lord yes i'd rather that not be the case we have to talk about i can't believe it's been this long sinestro we get sinestro and i was fascinated he looked up first of all the sinestro and how relationship in the comics is so fascinating i always love when they're together but part of me was like what's the next show was like damn that's like the second most dangerous thing you got to watch out for now that gave me the intrigue of like what does sinestro know about stewart because part of me is also if stewart has been trading to be a green lantern since he was a kid now i'm looking at his dad i'm like what how much do does his dad the guardians and everyone in this my thought is that is stewart's dad like he either has something to do with it or knows about that crash and wanted the ring and didn't get it so what's interesting is they're watching stewart they're watching jordan on television the dad comes home before he takes him out and shoots the apple yeah i want to talk to jl fons about this he's coming on higher learning okay we might have the midnight boys like what i'm gonna start doing is this commandeer a guest i want you guys i'm gonna start doing midnight ambushes i was gonna call it midnight bush but i can't you can't so we get a higher learning guest and then you guys just show up right you have to work on your off day and then while the guest is in here you guys are all might and y'all just bust in and start asking their questions we would have because we might have jl fons and daniel brooks on the midnight boys because of the movie they got coming out oh that's two dcu motherfuckers right there and this what if we just what if y'all just we don't tell ray shit she'll never hear this she'll listen to this podcast right like what if y'all just run into the pod and we just start like right here like even put beanbags down fuck it i would i would much rather be the punked thing where we're the ashton kutcher in the fucking van and we've got we're asking the question she's like all right in peacemaker season two dude everybody would think that rachel was a man hunter yeah who is this and what have they done with rachel yeah but okay so then if it's not to to get back on track if the benefactor is not obviously let's do a benefactor top five because the benefactor could be maxwell lord or lex luther right i have to be honest that's the least compelling reveal yeah if they were to do that yeah like yeah you don't think so lex hates aliens so that would be interesting it would make it while it would be cool in a way it also would be just like comic booking in a way that this show hasn't been up to this point yeah and i'm not saying that's i don't think the show wants it and i don't think we will guy gardner is going to be in this and also john stewart is going to be in man of tomorrow so if a lot of yeah it might not be but like if a lot of the underpinning of superman and now lanterns the connective tissue is like what does it mean when aliens like come to earth the thing that would connect john and clark can be like oh we both had some run-ins with fucking lex and the xenophobia i did see like a good a good theory because you know making spends a lot of time talking about like you know the past and like being colonized and all this stuff and you know how he doesn't look that old but you know who you know is old and has been on earth forever vandal savage and i was like is he vandal savage is he the guy like that might be a bitch but i i wish i could i wish i had the thing on me but vandal savage is a good kid like that and this is where i think the show has to balance itself where i love the show the most when it is grounded and the comic book elements are just just like fun little shots if it gets too comic booky that's when i'm a little bit well it's because of the fact that like you don't want to introduce things that are too comic booky late in the game because then it feels like we're just like shoehorning in an expositional solution to a mystery rather than something organically happening with some of the elements that we've been having this whole time it's funny you mentioned that though because he does he says um the code word to get into the the you know dimensional thing whatever he's like mogo doesn't socialize and i was like i know that that's a reference i just i understand i just did that reference mogo the living planet yeah uh there's like a famous famous story where i was like oh my god i don't know what i'm doing i don't know what i'm doing like mogo doesn't socialize because he's a living planet that has a green lantern uh ring and he can't hang out with other planets because his gravitational pull is too strong and destroys them so he stays he stays to himself and i was like that's a sick reference yeah is it is the benefactor uh perhaps a character that's not in the show that a character that will be introduced as a new character could be they can't they can't do the sharon carter thing from talking in a winter soldier what do you mean why like what do you mean the power broker the power i was the power broker the whole time man i'm really glad you brought that up because it's only been two episodes and you know 95 percent rotten tomatoes we had a great time at d23 shout out disney shadow marvel it's crazy how they're doing secret invasion better than secret invasion yeah some people have been saying that like agents of shield did secret invasion better over like you know god knows like 16 episodes or whatever with the lmd arc and the uh agents of shield did secret invasion better over like you know god knows like 16 episodes or hydro arc but through two episodes i'm like yo y'all are y'all are frying these guys samuel jackson uh what's the care uh ben middleton yeah didn't stand a chance bro no they getting lapped through two episodes it's nasty so do you think that what is interesting about lanterns to be is the most excited i feel like people have been about the dc universe since superman is from a to be as far away from the james gunn aesthetic and what james gunn loves and to me that's interesting not because james like james gunn is very talented but part of me is i'm like does dc in the in the halls of dc are they like yeah people might want something a little bit so different so let me tell you why i don't think first of all we have to finish our who is the fucking thing you know what fuck you guys don't want to play my little games fuck you guys what would you have to play cool two cool little games i wanted to who are the top five lex luther but we didn't finish it because joey started talking about mogul and the planet nigga with the ring and then we fit well i like god forbid i explain something god forbid i was actually he's just playing that's right okay but no to your point if they did which i doubt that they do because nigga then we need some hits baby okay remember what chris rock said about ricky martin ricky need a hit yeah um so i don't think that they do but i also think that if anybody was if we're smart about it a show like this establishes the railroad track for the entire fucking place to like glide over this superman um was proof positive that you could tell a compelling superman story at this particular time was it the superman story that everyone was used to seeing was it a little bit subversive to the idea of superman sure true this one though is to me proof positive that inside this world that you're creating that you could like weave grounded story connected to the human experience and condition the types of stories that make for fertile extraction of superhero ideas and so i think that in a way this is well i can't say that i think that in a way this is almost as important as superman it's definitely not more important no i don't think it's more important it's just it's not lost on me that before the mcu could do guardians of the galaxy or thor ragnarok they had to do iron man they had to do stuff like winter soldier because to me you have to create the grounded level part of your world before you can get really comic booky that's what i think was maybe the problem with supergirl which is like they were they were almost a little bit ahead of the curve and i it's ironic that the most intergalactic comic book characters the thing that we are you attached to the most with this show is the emotion is the character dynamics are the smaller 90 of this show is if you believe in kyle chandler if you believe in aaron pierre and their chemistry and what they're fighting for everything else kind of does works for itself but so let's let's let's stay here for one second because i think this is really interesting and let's talk about the specificity of the characters iron man you have to start with who he is as a human person because he is inspired to become a superhero he makes his suit out of uh self-preservation almost desperation and then the creation of his suit and what happens leads to a higher calling that was a lot of those marvel characters at the beginning except for thor thor was a space god a space god who had to be sent to earth to have a human experience to understand what it was like to be a hero to connect to be uh exiled from his parents and all of that stuff that's why that was a smart decision for them to write their story that way dc hasn't they didn't really maybe they tried to do it with superman and supergirl but they they kind of failed right they they really didn't superman i think was very successful supergirl was we talk about with the movie it's shortcomings it's shortcomings weren't to me in uh it's shortcomings weren't in in ambition they were almost all in execution if you told me you're gonna do a supergirl story where she's gonna be like an intergalactic planet hopper going from planets that have yellow suns to planets that don't have yellow suns and her power is gonna be up down but her and this little girl they're gonna find out what a hero is and what she needs to do and at the end her arc is gonna be finished she needs to come back and be a hero i'm like that works you just gotta do it right and that's and and what what ended up happening is that they didn't but to your point that's a much harder story to do right yeah than this one is like that like that is that when if you're gonna do a story like that right you almost gotta have james gunn a prime james gunn an mvp fucking braun 2010 james gunn that was cooking up guardians like yeah i'm not saying that he's out of his mvp years i'm saying that like in that that's not the problem i would have went with what's the problem you would have went with like 20 to 2012 2013 braun or you even could 2018 braun you're good okay that's whatever braun you say you're the braun you're the braun sexual of this podcast so you take that braun right the type of and then you do guardians of the galaxy well you're able to take these characters who have all these powers and they're still pretty human they're still pretty grounded characters but you're able to take that world and make it happen i think supergirl it wasn't the ambition or the try they just they didn't execute but also the best part of supergirl was the chemistry between millie alcock and corn sweat and that's where i'm like oh lanterns is succeeding because when you're in these fantastical worlds you a lot of times in these uh movies or tv shows i'm like vision uh wandavision works because you have two characters at the center of it when it gets a little crazy that i can lock on them and be like i'm in safe hands her trauma was the star of the thing i think falcon and winter soldier was good because anthony mackie and sebastian stan are good together and like supergirl did not have that she did not have that running mate to be like okay i'm gonna make you believe in this world even when shit gets a little rocky and i think that's just a credit to the fact that like aaron pierre is really good kyle chandler he put up he's the man because there's some parts of this where i'm like dog you have to sell me all some bullshit some exposition dumb bullshit and kyle chandler's like dog i was he was walking through that weird community college campus in order to see sinestro in prison and i was digging it i'm glad you bought sinestro back up because he says this thing you mentioned earlier the second community now that shit was like it's just like you know the community college was a really fancy library it was out there at greendale yeah now he mentions like the second biggest threat do you think he is actually like talking about a threat or is he like yo man your boy john man now you're saying he's a man now i was told that you was the big boss but everybody that i'll be hearing john this john that there's there's no your name don't read if we go in if we go into the comic books the if you know the comic books the manhunters precursors to the green lanterns essentially created by i believe in the comic books that are created by the guardians the guardians realize they fucked up and they use the rings yes to keep them in check so part of me is like is there a connection between not only john and the guardians but something with the manhunters and they feel like hey stewart might be the next evolution of the green lanterns and do you think in episode three this is going to be why we learned a bit more why sinestro turned coat well why to your point why does jordan have to go to sinestro and ask him about manhunters because he's a manhunter and he's a manhunter and he's a manhunter and he's a manhunter yeah like why does he jordan is the fucking big swinging dick of the guardians he's their their their star he's their celebrity he's the green lantern well no because typically in the comic books even though he is the guy he's very much a maverick in top gun where they the guardians can't control how so almost they're like fuck you they don't tell him anything which is why i think at the first episode he told his ring yo stop up updating and stop sending that shit to the guardians i don't trust them and i think their their way to get someone they can control in this sector is john by the way he's kind of emotionally soldier do we know how long it was when he put sinestro away was it about 10 years ago i'm not sure but here's the deal though so he's mcnulty right so here's the deal so he's mcnulty cool he's mcnulty john is lester yeah okay that's sure that's the freeman like he's mcnulty john is lester the guard guardians are daniels rest in peace who is sinestro who is sinestro omar about but maybe that's to be proven in episode three because we don't really know it's not it's not avon it's an oh easy nope i was gonna say i was gonna say either either avon or stringer but probably a mixture yeah probably avon because you can't really get good information from stringer stringer's gonna tell you all the wrong shit to do i'll tell you something man something that bomani jones and jamel hill have never been writer about when you go back and you watch the show just how many times stringer fucked up now stringer also did a lot of things that were very smart right but stringer fucked up a lot his win-loss ratio is not here's the thing when i was watching it the first time i did not realize i was like all of us we were like man that nigga stringer a fucking genius stringer took one macroeconomics class and started coming back to the hood better than everyone but i want y'all to go back and watch that scene go back and watch that scene go back and watch that scene stringer he was waiting to get his shit off you ever been around your homie that learned some new shit it's the jaylen brown meme at the college yeah he's like what you have here is an elastic product and i'm like oh but sinestro so you know back to jordan your point about uh how jordan is well taken that he is a maverick in this situation though this is incredibly dangerous group or race of people things things or aliens that he doesn't have very much knowledge about to the point that he has to go talk to sinestro about it sinestro seems like he's interested in horse trading information because he wants to know about stewart but what is the reason that jordan would not have information about the manhunters but also think about how he got the ring ab and sir was either running from something or trying to hide something right and what's the change of the mythos that i need to understand more usually in dc comics the ring finds the most work the closest worthy person in that sector to get the ring it seems like in this universe ab and sir almost was looking for someone who would be like an antagonist or would have would have not only the willpower but the would be fearless enough to help him in with whatever was gonna happen with the man. manhunters so part of me and that's what i think is interesting if john stewart is the character that was hand-picked by the guardians and how was picked because abin sir was looking for someone who could go against them how do both of them fight against the manhunter and that would explain why like when he's talking in episode one when he's like this is not how this usually goes it's usually only one green lantern yeah they don't really train people the uh the guardians are all out there like nah man we got to get this guy out of here he's he's he's wilding too much we need somebody we need to install our own proxy that makes a lot of sense it's so crazy now guy gardner now just became the most fascinating person in this universe to me now i'm so interested in what's going to happen to know that he is an active green lantern in this 2026 timeline and he will be in the show in some degree what is his connection to this because he has to interact with guardians he has to have some sort of directive yeah who gave these things who gave him a who gave him the ring yeah yeah is that not john's ring or is it somebody else's ring or is it his own ring why didn't the guardians want humans to have rings is also interesting yeah because how basically is like this was a backwater like yeah so i'm interested now in this time guy has a man we gotta stop that bro backwater uh sector 2814 is the most important sector of all time because they got nine people with rings uh in this universe uh not usually sending them to the most troubled areas still though man it's uh what do you call it um obviously john how uh jessica cruz simon baz uh guy gardner uh kyle rainer like everybody got a ring they just handed them things out like candy clearly sector 2814 is really important because you need a little hot maybe yeah i mean maybe it's the ghetto like maybe that's a surge they need more police they just oh that's what i get like think about it that's what they do with the police man like they say some people would say defund the green lanterns they're not defunding the green lanterns they're defunding the green lanterns south central in the 90s like joe biden would say i'm gonna fund the green lantern corps right turns is crazy like they're like the snes show we're getting the green lanterns msnbc's like we defunding the green everybody's like hey defund the green land defund the green lanterns defund the green lanterns and they're like no we're gonna fund the green lands before you know it it's people with rings all over the place i mean if you go to the comic books how join with they need body cams body cam the green lanterns talk your shit hey these my body cam ran out of charge that's what they would do yeah that's why he's not charging the motherfucking thing oh wait this shit is propaganda so he can shoot so look stop updating this shit yeah he's turned his body cam off to shoot the shit and he didn't have his shit because he didn't have his body camera the green is a body camera oh my god the green lanterns need body cameras i'll tell you what man i'll be honest with you like lapd probably one of the most corrupt uh systems police just in general guardians of oa it's either one air one b or these just a notch above yeah them dies is nasty but here's the thing you know between how jordan becoming parallax john stewart fucking destroying a whole planet in the comics there is there is a part where i'm like yeah man y'all do need body cams yeah they do they do they have one they have one bad day they nuke a whole planet first of all he got the ring i got it from an alien and all of that stuff maybe maybe you did we don't know if that happened yeah we don't know how you got that story or killed himself took it off his body but we wouldn't know because there's no body cameras on that's so funny if a green lantern crashes on earth what was the movie oh that was uh that was menace to society we say hey hey homie can i help you homie yeah fuck you nigga let's go hey homie hey homie you need some help boom boom boom that happened in mr society yo i just started crashing in chicago would be so walks up to him take him out take the ring i don't want to you know uh indict any communities but you crash that bitch in baton rouge it's gonna be a bunch of green lamborghinis you crash that bitch in baton rouge crash in baton rouge it's gonna be green lamborghinis it's gonna be green balenciaga it's gonna be green chains it's gonna be niggas it's gonna be the emerald city what would you what construct would you make if you like in the in the club trying to impress a lady oh shit what a great question like you in the club you in a club oh green money gun oh oh green money gun you shooting the green money all over the place you know what i'm saying and then like a whole ass nigga try to grab the money you grab and you're right are you in the strip club you slapping the strippers asses with the constructs you gotta support them man you gotta support them they can't spend the construct money maybe they could spend it if they was with john stewart construct a section oh no you can like the section i mean you could really just like you could construct a dj right and had a dj play the hits you know i mean you could but they already got the dj in the club but i'm saying think about it you can construct the whole fucking club is what you could construct if it was real they would put the actual dj green lantern in this you like come on y'all wow they don't do that type of shit you know who did that this is why i respect marvel marvel put uh a ghost face in it but they took them out of it right oh yeah they took them out of it like they put them in the first one yeah out of it you know what i'm saying but but he started his music playing on the the plane scene when they're going to uh yeah that was like a little work like he's listening to iron man man shout out dj green lantern all right um now we've pretty much hit all the most important parts of this episode in terms of like expound upon them but we leave this episode with uh jordan talking to sinestro we're probably going to begin the next episode either with a continuation of this conversation or you know maybe it could be a bottle episode or whatever it comes back to it how important is this conversation between sinestro and jordan uh to the rest of the show essential i think it is so important my my question is are we going to get it are we going to get the full what sinestro tells how because part of what's interesting in this episode especially is stewart does not know how much he can trust how and how does it know how much he can trust john so part of me is i'm like what is sinestro going to tell how that is going to either get him to turn against john look at him differently yeah or once again is sinestro gonna try to manipulate how right well this is the thing that i loved about the sinestro how relationship in the comics is that like there's a reverence that they have for each other yes more or less like there's a deep respect for a while that they have and it's more so like they're on the wrong sides of the law and sinestro doesn't he's not a shit stirrer at least when it comes to how like this i wouldn't hope so i think it's more of like what is he gonna inst what like fear is he gonna instill in how to make him think that he's gonna just crash out and keep the ring for himself and distrust john entirely yeah my thing is like what's sinestro's motivation right because i mean he almost has none he he came to him but he's not just gonna do how a favor for the love of the game oh i see what you mean like that's my dog yeah yeah you know we used to have battles but here's some info for you like no what does he get in exchange is it i think i like what you said to instill fear in how and i think like that's probably what's gonna be like hey man galaxy's crazy these manners run around bro you scared you want to pick up the yellow ring also how does he know so much he's been stuck in jail how does he know all this stuff about stewart how does he know i would wager i mean like he's like sinestro was like a good green lantern right he was probably more diligent and less of a maverick than than how was until you know decided to take the yellow ring so oh the guardians oh we'll probably let him in on some information you know no but that was 10 years ago like if a little bit about information about john stewart about that would be insanely dangerous about the man hunters about the man hunters about the man hunters john he probably they talking about him in the mess hall they like yo you heard about that new one john trying to replace your boy how you know i'm saying that's what that's what i think like part of it is going to be but i i would imagine that since sinestro like was a green lantern before you know i would imagine that since sinestro like was a green lantern before you know i'm saying that's what i think like part of it is going to be but i i would imagine that since sinestro like was a green lantern before before how if i recall correctly like he would know his mentor yeah he would know more about the stuff and they would let him know about the man hunters before they told john or how sorry yeah so much intrigue love it yeah so much intrigue shows great shows really fucking cooking shows great shows cooking shows cooking all right we're out of here we're gonna be talking about lanterns every single fucking time we got so much stuff to cover um there's gonna be a special jomie the explainer coming uh that jomie doesn't know about but he will not do it okay uh because there's one thing that's tripping up the audience of the show the audience of the show was expecting john jones the martian man hunter right to maybe show up in this show now i'll say this i do not want that is that the man hunters that you're talking that we're talking about right now are not martian man hunter no it's too different jomie's gonna do a special social explainer on that right either for social or as a special that's going to be Jomie Jomie's going to do that that's a little ISO for Jome Skittle and we should also say that we have news that we will be having a panel at Comic Con New York Comic Con and that panel will be hosted by our very own Steve Allman they picked the one white guy to do it yeah it's going to be fun I don't know what we're going to do we talked about it we'll keep some surprises I need all y'all wearing butters all y'all wearing Timbs can I ask a question can I show up in the Yankee fitted yeah this is your turf this is we're in Chuckie Lane we need to check in with there's no checking in I don't know I do have to check in well Dave Jacoby every time I come fucking Dave Jacoby every time I come to New York and I'm there Dave Jacoby asked me why didn't you check in I got to check in with Stephon I made I make New York what honestly you know what I got to check I know who I have to check in you know big pick big pick Poppy you know what I'm saying I got to check in with my man Poppy Wagner yeah okay Bobby Wags B.B. Wags B.B. Wags in this bitch B.B. Wags in this bitch oh wait you know Big Kuh that's who we need to check in with oh Big Kuh Lindbergh Lindy right right right we got to check in with my better you got to check in with Lindbergh we got to check in with Lindbergh Big Kuh Lindbergh motherfucking war WOBA all of that shit ERA you got to check in with Lindbergh yo okay OBS plus OBS plus you got to check in with Big Kuh Lindbergh that whip man better be low whip yeah I don't know that's the do you think Lindbergh could be a walks hits per inning pitch I know what whip is but it would just be very funny if Ben think about if Ben is talking to you he's talking to us about baseball and Ben goes yeah you guys like whip oh no come on man we're like what like I think whip it's one of the best things that you can use to evaluate someone I like whip only if he's like actually doing it like a lot of people talk about a lot of stats but you Charles I think you need to know about whip he's like what one of the best ways you can find out how effective Jesus Christ someone that you've invested into is calculate their whip programming reminders Thursday House of R we visit Oppenheimer also this Thursday Button Mash gives you the GTA 6 extended loop extended loop they're going to have all kinds of things they're going to have WOBA WAR ERA WHIP okay all of that stuff on Ben you never know when Ben will just talk about baseball WRC WRC WOBA Plus yeah all these different stats are that the Dodgers are failing at right now our producers today are Lea Zanaris Jacob Cornett Devin Baraldi Jamie Yukich join me at dinner on on socials hashtag body cam off stays off stays off there's no why hashtag body cam stays off wow additional production from Arjuna Ramgopal Chuck takes out check in with Big Ka we got more New York announcements in the talk Green Lanterns is amazing and Gambit still sucks BOO! you never know what's coming and you can't wait to see what's next to come on the show next week you can't wait to see what's next on the show stay tuned you can't wait to see what's next on the show you can't wait to see what's next on the show you can't wait to see what's next on the show enjoy themed food and drinks beat the heat play, eat, and shop on repeat at Netflix House at Galleria Dallas bring your crew and save get your tickets today at netflix.com slash house why are they they find you it's bad we gotta we gotta we gotta clear out real quick we gotta talk about the Gambit thing is there anything you wanna say to people fuck em even though you were technically wrong and you did make a list that's that Gambit came in at 22 here's the thing this is what I'm also realizing they still gonna be pissed off that's not gonna be good enough in in typical Midnight Boys fashion motherfuckers did not know how we were ranking cause motherfuckers started arguing about who is is it an omega level mutant who could be who blah blah blah so when we do the official rankings we do need to figure out what does top 25 mean are we talking about popularity are we talking about iconic are we talking about importance to like the mythos or are we power scaling I'm not power scaling in all respects cannonball is still crazy cannonball is more powerful than Gambit he's more powerful than Gambit well it depends it depends it depends because if you know sinister removed part of Gambit's brain so if not maybe Gambit is this huge gigantic living walking kinetic weapon that is different but like in the way they're written in the comic books the Gambit that we know cannonball is more powerful I wanna let you know something so we've done a lot of polls in the history of the Midnight Boys yeah and these polls normally have winners yeah and if you get swacked in a poll the percentage would be like 70 to 30 this poll is 95 5 and and nigga Trump is in office I don't care the people are wrong Trump is like 95 this so you know we do a poll it's like who won the argument it's like 60-40 Steve B. Jomi Charles B. Vann whatever this one is 95 5 , BTA and guess what posterity will prove me right because a motherfucker is like Gambit, Gambit, Gambit I ain't seen nobody drop no Gambit comics I see nobody talking about Taylor Kitsch I don't see nobody bringing up anything he going off one fucking cartoon so niggas like hey give me the reading list because I still haven't seen it I still haven't seen all these great Gambit comics that y'all motherfuckers are trying to tell me to read okay let's let's talk let's talk this out before we get into to you to you just so people know what is the criteria that you are basing this off of so I think I more heavily weigh in my rankings of the top 25 X-Men characters that are not only important to the mythos not just popularity but more so what are the X-Men comics that decade over decade keep coming into books other writers want to write them they can be not only in TV shows but they can be in movies and that doesn't mean like yes Gambit is more popular but if you look at like a character like Emma Frost I I RANKED EMMA FROST OVER GAMBIT EMMA FROST ISN'T MORE POPULAR BUT IF YOU LOOK IN THE COMICS IF YOU LOOK IN THE MOVIES IF YOU LOOK IN THE RECENT MCU OF IT ALL SHE IS A CHARACTER THAT IS NOT ONLY FUNDAMENTAL TO THE X-MEN BUT SO MANY WRITERS WANT TO USE HER OVER AND OVER AGAIN BECAUSE SHE IS NOT A CLICHE AND I THINK A LOT OF THE GAMBIT IS LIKE NOSTALGIA OF HE WAS SO POPULAR IN THE 90S I REMEMBER HIM FROM THE CARTOON BUT THEN I'M LIKE OKAY BUT TELL ME LIKE THE ICONIC MOMENTS OF GAMBIT IN THE COMICS AND IT IS A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME AND USUALLY WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT I DON'T KNOW GIANT SIZE X-MEN ASTONISHING X-MEN HOUSE OF X POWERS OF TEN JUST LEGENDARY RUNS GAMBIT IS NEVER IN THEM WELL YEAH OKAY SO THIS IS WHAT I WOULD SAY SO THEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MORE SO THE PRESTIGE OF THE CHARACTER YEAH AND JUST LIKE THE IMPORTANCE OF STORYTELLING IN TERMS OF JUST LIKE WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CLASSIC STORYLINES HOW MANY OF THEM INCLUDE THIS CHARACTER THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE FRONT AND CENTER BUT IT'S LIKE DARK PHOENIX SAGA LIKE WHATEVER IT IS WHEN I WAS AN X-MEN READER I AS A KID LIKED GAMBIT AND THEN I GREW UP AND I WAS LIKE GAMBIT DOESN'T ACTUALLY HE DOESN'T REALLY DO MUCH SHIT LIKE HE'S COOL LIKE HE'S A COOL BACKGROUND CHARACTER WE'RE LIKE OH THAT'S GAMBIT THEN YOU'RE LIKE THERE'S THE DEATH OF GAMBIT THERE'S A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT CLARAMONT WAS DOING WITH HIM IN THE 90S WITH JIM LEE AND EVERYTHING AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN BRINGING UP THE DEATH OF GAMBIT BUT I READ THAT AS A KID IT'S NOT A GREAT COMIC IT'S JUST ICONIC BECAUSE HE BECOMES A HORSEMAN WHAT ARE THE OTHER GAM LIKE IF YOU'RE LIKE WHAT ARE YOUR FAVORITE CYCLOPS STORIES MAGNETO STORIES EVEN ICE ANGEL PEOPLE ARE LIKE HOW CAN YOU SAY ARCHANGEL I'M LIKE ARCHANGEL HAS WHETHER IT'S X FACTOR WHETHER IT'S X FORCE WHETHER IT'S THE ORIGINAL FIVE ANGEL HAS A LOT OF GOOD COMICS AND GOOD STORY LINES GAMBIT HAS THE REVERSE RIGHT I MEAN TO ME THIS IS THE WAY I LOOK AT IT SO I HEAR THAT ARGUMENT I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY A COMPELLING ONE I JUST THINK WITH COMICS PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CHARACTERS THAT THEY LIKE AND IF YOU START TALKING ABOUT X-MEN WHO REALLY HAVE LIKE SUPER IMPORTANT WEIGHTY STORY ARTS THE LIST STARTS TO GET VERY VERY SHORT I DON'T THINK SO I DO I THINK THE LIST STARTS TO GET VERY VERY SHORT I THINK THE LIST OF X-MEN WHO THEY'RE X-MEN THAT ARE STAPLE KIDS ARE CHARACTERS RIGHT BUT THE LIST OF X-MEN THAT YOU'RE GONNA SAY THIS CHARACTER IS SUPER IMPORTANT HERE AND THIS CHARACTER YOU'RE REALLY GONNA START BECAUSE THEY LEAN ON A LOT OF THE SAME CHARACTERS OVER AND OVER AGAIN THERE'S A TOP LIKE 10-15 WHERE IT'S LIKE THERE'S A REASON NIGHTCRAWLER, STORM, WOLVERINE, CYCLOPS, COLOSSUS THOSE ARE the like mainstays like here yeah but like even like uh like a colossus people are gonna be like i like gambit better i mean look there were people had different there was a deal there was a point where long shot long shot had a moment like that was the point where long shot was like you know what i mean there's all kinds of stuff but man it's just and this is another american thing it's just difficult sometimes to just like not be in favor of the straight up coolest motherfucker around he's so cool like gambit is one of the coolest characters like he's if we're talking about just iconic if we were talking like iconic x-men he would probably make my top 10 top 15 but if we like add like story and like oh even in movies they've tried to get gambit right twice and they failed twice yeah they haven't gotten gene gray right all right i would say no no no in the original in that original trilogy she like gene gray was not bad so she wasn't bad but like to be to be honest with you in the original and now here comes my hot take in the original x-men trilogy the characters that they really got they really nailed wolverine professor x and xavier and magneto those were the ones they nailed right everybody else was cool like like i'm trying to think of nightcrawler nightcrawler was really good in next to they yeah he was really like every like the characters that were nailed i'm not saying any of these portrayals were bad they weren't i would actually i would actually almost say that cyclops was pretty close to who cyclops was at that time who cyclops exactly should have been cyclops so i'll throw cyclops in there but like they they haven't really nailed the dark phoenix thing they it's always a harbinger of like yeah so like to me when i look at what you're saying gambit is a great movie and i think it's a great movie and i think it's a great movie and i think i love it not being in a good movie characters also because i feel like the x-men universe never got to the place where gambit had a place in it okay because because he's a he's a character that's more uh that shows up when the universe is pretty expansive and they were still trying to expand and get dark phoenix right they tried it twice it kind of didn't work either time like when when they get to have gambit in there you need a little flair in there well the joke i mean you're talking about the dark phoenix right you're talking about the dark phoenix right you're talking about the dark phoenix right you're talking about the dark phoenix right you're talking about he's connected to he's connected to he's connected to rogue like all his cool moments with rogue rogue like all his cool moments with rogue rogue like all his cool moments with rogue like i mean anna packard was was cool as like i mean anna packard was was cool as like i mean anna packard was was cool as rogue but she actually i'll give her she rogue but she actually i'll give her she rogue but she actually i'll give her she was she was was she was was was i thought that was a very good at the time i thought that was a very good at the time i thought that was a very good at the time it was a very good role but it was it was a very good role but it was it was a very good role but it was not the role from the comic books in not the role from the comic books in not the role from the comic books in if indy doing that in the movies i if indy doing that in the movies i if indy doing that in the movies i think that type of accent think that type of accent think that type of accent can implode like i almost like she needs can implode like i almost like she needs can implode like i almost like she needs to have a southern accent to have a southern accent to have a southern accent but that's also my problem with gambit but that's also my problem with gambit but that's also my problem with gambit and rogue a lot of times when you take and rogue a lot of times when you take and rogue a lot of times when you take them out of that context they become them out of that context they become them out of that context they become goofy right like if you give them too goofy right like if you give them too much of an accent you make them too much much of an accent you make them too much much of an accent you make them too much of a cliche of a cliche of a cliche you're watching a cartoon instead of like you're watching a cartoon instead of like you're watching a cartoon instead of like a live action a live action a live action realistic like you really can't take realistic like you really can't take realistic like you really can't take shanning tatum too seriously shanning tatum too seriously shanning tatum too seriously as gambit every single time he's in the as gambit every single time he's in the as gambit every single time he's in the doomsday trailer i laugh a little bit doomsday trailer i laugh a little bit doomsday trailer i laugh a little bit but okay so you're also talking about just a critique of the character in and of itself, he's not as grounded as a character as some of the other characters are. Well, it's not to say that he can't be. It's just more we haven't seen a grounded portrayal. Well, I mean, if you're going to give us a little gambit, if you're going to give us gambit, you got to go there. Like, the gambit's got to be. You want him to talk the Cajun full, thick accent, sympathy. Well, first of all, respect my heritage. Right. I'm not a Cajun, but the Cajun people. This will be my last question. You can't do gambit and not do that. You can't halfway do it again. Yeah. Sure. You can't do it like. The way Channing Tatum's doing it is like he's winking and nodding at the audience. But, like, you can do. Gambit's a Cajun. He's a Cajun. He's a part of who he is. It's. It's like making Storm from Philly. Storm from Philly would be great. Storm from Philly would be. Even if we're talking about X-Men from the 90s. Hey, hey, take some water. Would I. Would you. Hey, this is Storm from Philly. Hey, water. I love that John over there, man. My favorite moment from Philly is when they have the John conversation. John. John. John. Like, I want Storm from Philly. I want Storm waking up. I'm so sorry, Cliff. Jill Scott playing in the background. I want Storm, like, with incense. You know, the whole. Man, we fucking with you, Steve. We love you. We love you, Steve. We love you, Steve. I know who you are. I know who you are. We want Storm, Jill Scott, and the Roots playing in the background. Like, hey, yo, what's that John, John, talking to Professor Xavier? Black Panther's my little John. Water. This is what Storm would do. Water. Water. Nah, she started making it rain. Meek Mill freestyling. I'm fucking with that. Alright, in terms of 90s X-Men, would you name him number one, man? Nah. Wolverine. But what I'm saying is, even if we're talking about. People are like, Gambit's easily top five. Top five, top ten. I'm like, so you think Gambit is more important than, like, a Deadpool or Cable? Because I don't. But you're saying more important. That's not what they're saying. They're saying top X-Men. Now, if you go more important X-Men, there's gonna be a lot of X-Men in there that people don't have. Like, if you do most important X-Men. I'm also talking about the most important X-Men across, like, we're talking about the mythos. Gambit, to me, isn't top five, top ten. Like, Deadpool and Cable are way more important, especially if we're, like, these are 90s X-Men. I have way more, like, there's way more better Cable-Deadpool stories than there are Gambit stories. Well, I mean, true. I mean, Cable is going to be in that top, for me especially, being a fan of the 90s X-Men more than anything, right? People bring up, like, for example, you said Magic, right? And then I was like, Magic? And then people reminded me that Magic has some phenomenal comics, especially as of late. Yeah. But even the New Mutants, what's the Bear story? They did the movie on it, where all the New Mutants go to fucking Alaska or whatever. Yeah. Oh, right. I love that story. Like, Magic has good comics. She has good comics. So to me, when I look at the 90s characters, it was X-Men Blue, X-Men Gold, but then there was a lot of the expanded stuff, so Cable was insanely important. Deadpool was insanely important. Is Deadpool a New Earth X-Man? Yeah, he's in that. I mean, I would like Juggernaut. Juggernaut is an X-Man, even though he not a New Earth X-Man. I wouldn't put him in this. I'm just talking about people that have been on the X-Men team, which Deadpool has been. Deadpool's been on the X-Men team. So, but, like, and Gambit was just one of the characters that people were really obsessed with. Yeah. And that has, like, it's endured to a degree. But if we're talking about most important characters, then, bro, there's gonna be characters in there that people. But to me, most important is more interesting than who is, like, the most popular. Because, like, popularity isn't what I go to the X-Men for. I'm like, the reason people love the X-Men is, like, there's motherfuckers who love Maggie. Like, to this day, people are like, man, they never got Mero right. They never got Maggie. This is a. I'm glad we're having this conversation. This is gonna be a great post-credits. This is a fundamental. This thing I think illuminates the difference between you and I more than anything else. Importance is what the writers denote. Yeah. Popularity is what the people respond to. So, when, like, the importance, the writers taking the same characters and writing them over again, as a reader and as a person, you don't have any control over that. Like, what you. Which characters you like is just what people are responding to. So, like, so, when people are arguing, they're arguing over what they saw on the page. Like, what, like, incited them, what made them feel inspired and cool. The writers can decide that they gonna make Cannonball an external and put them in every story and do all of that stuff like that. And that's cool. I fuck with Cannonball. When you say Cannonball, I was like, god damn, Sam Guthrie, that's my nigga. Also, because Guthrie got the family. Yeah, I like Cannonball. You know who I like, bro? He was mentioned. I always loved Richter. You are a Richter fan? Richter. Richter. Always loved Richter. That's like the look of the guy. Grungy-ass white boy that can make earthquakes. I always loved Richter, right? Little emo boy? Yeah, little emo guy. Like, I always loved him. But, like, so, that's like a really important distinction. Like, what Prestige says, and, like, you come from a very, like, high-brow critical mind, so these characters have to hold some weight. People just talk about, you know. Who's nice? Who's nice? We having a nice conversation. Yeah! Kinetic car. Kinetic car. All of that stuff. A lot of people was like, Gambit was so. so raw on Marvel vs. Capcom 2. Yes, he was. He's a cool character on that. He's got the best super. But Gambit sucks on that game, bro. I played. I made him all the time, and I lost everything. But even on that game, even on that game, Gambit's shit is fucking cool as shit. He throws the bo-staff, and he's like. He throws the bo-staff, and then he throws a million cards. Amazing. But Gambit, to me, is just nice. When we talk about fundamentals, I'm just like, alright. He's like a difference between, like, a basketball player and A lot of these like, you think Gambit's just a hooper? gambit's just a hooper because you can't you never you can't build a run around gambit and that's what separates the big dogs you can build a run around wolverine magneto storm nightcrawler gambit you've never seen him lead a team you've never seen him put in the work that's different i just think we can move off this i just think there's a lot of lore to gambit gambit has a lot of lore around him that other characters don't thieves guilt assassins guild gambit's backstory i think that there's probably because we're a little removed from it like there's probably a lot to gambit that we're not remembering like belladonna his all of that stuff like that there was a lot going on with gambit should we do a gambit lore episode where we just we just break out the comics we go through we go through the x-men we just like all right do i need to put more respect on gambit's name well we can do that with a lot of characters because i'm trying to get claremont on the show for this x-men top 25 thing that we're doing i'm trying to get claremont on the show it might almost make sense to record that at new york comic-con so like record that or maybe do it at new york comic-con like i'm trying to get claremont in york well he's he goes to a lot of these different things still a young guy he's only 75 right spry guy right so i'm trying to get claremont i'm using all everything i know i hung out with chris claremont one time through kim burke yeah it's moments whatever i was i was dick riding a little bit man i was like were you all right with paul mccartney just like remember when this claremont is one of the writers where it's like i'd be scaring the hoes it's fine but like what kind of level of dick riding was it so let me tell you let me tell you and this is shout out to simon and cleo and shout out to deray mckesson i'll tell you this story real quick so i you know simon cleo deray they invite me to the x-men dark phoenix premiere so i go to the premiere right so i go to the premiere and i go to the premiere and i go to right so i go to the premiere and uh this is i've been to premieres before yeah right i've gone to premieres with tay i've been to a lot of premieres before and all this i've been to premieres before right this is different though because it did not let me not say that this is different because i could not believe i was kicking it with the cast of the best man right when tay took me to premier that's like the best man i was like you know nice uh but it was this was a gigantic huge huge hollywood production and premiere so you know i go someplace i turn around and somebody's like hey i want to introduce you to someone and it's katie perry and orlando bloom and so you're you're talking to them and all that stuff a lot of people were around there my man james was there i didn't realize that he was alexandria ship's brother so we have been hooping together so james ship didn't you know i didn't know yeah we have been hooping together at the la fitness and i see him at the premiere and i'm like what are you doing here i know he's he's an actor great looking guy i'm like what's going on he's like my sister's in the movie i'm like wait what and he's like yeah my sister's in the movie i did not realize that me and him had been hooping together he had just torn his acl whatever he could play ball anyway so we're there and uh you know simon's guy he's running around he's gotta do his stuff and stuff like that and then simon goes hey uh there this room is full of gigantic mackinac boys there fast benders there everyone's there everyone's there and then just more people that are not in the movies it's like the top of industry right and and he said i want to introduce you to someone and he's like this is chris claremont and man i kind of froze up like black panther a little bit like it was like man there's still a picture of all of us together talking and i'm just like standing there just wanting to know stuff but when he started talking like everybody in the picture was just listening to him so that's the one of the one times that you you when you're around somebody and you're like oh my god i'm somebody like that it's kind of like it's odd i kind of i felt the same way being around spike lee because it's like oh you invented this shit right like you've made it up so not like star struck but more of just like awestruck yeah yeah somebody who's like created something that's so fundamental to you that you can't quite but also it's all the questions i would have for claremont like i could talk to him for five hours yeah and he was a nice incredible everybody there that night was nice and i still say y'all gonna say y'all gonna look at me crazy or whatever i still say an overhated movie i think i still say for our top 25 x-men what is so the people can get ready and prepared what are we ranking are we ranking the most important across comics movies tv just actually have our own our own criteria and then bring it together and then i think we should yeah i think like come together like what are we actually debating we all have our lists we come we debate our list and then we we put it together and then we put it together and then we put it together and put it together and then have claremont look at it and be like actually y'all are all wrong here's where the x-men should be these are my horniest x-men right okay all right that's that's all post-credits let's get back to the beginning