‘Lanterns’ Episode 2 Deep Dive

Hello. Welcome back to House of R. I'm Joya Robinson. That's Mallory Rubin. And we're here today to talk to you about Lantern, Season 1, Episode 2, Trust Fall. Yes. Mallory. Joanna. We're back from Baltimore. Ah, in the name of Tom Osborne or whoever it is you worship. What a wonderful few days we've had. Delightful to be back here with you at the crack of dawn. Crack of dawn. To record this podcast. And we're mere hours away from our like midnight screening of essentially of Labyrinth. Yeah. So it's going to be a full day for us. A lot of caffeine ahead of us. Yes. Probably a couple Advil for me at least. I don't know about you. So let's get into this slightly unhinged podcast. Can't wait. Right after this. Observe the North American dad, 50s, great polo collection. He enters his vehicle information on Carvana. An offer appears in remarkable. He squints, reads it again, smiles and says, dang, that's a good offer. The highest form of approval. No haggling, no hassle. No one called him boss. He's still on the couch. Astonishing. Sell your car today on Carvana.com. Pickup fees may apply. This episode is brought to you by The Home Depot. Black Friday is happening now at The Home Depot and they've got just the tree for your style, space and budget. Make the holidays merry and starting at $49. Then make it your own with ornaments and trimmings for every holiday style. Find your perfect tree at the number one Christmas tree retailer and get low prices guaranteed on all your festive favorites at The Home Depot. Exclusions apply. Visit homedepot.com slash price match for details. quick programming reminders. Yes. It's Monday when you're listening and watching this unless something has gone dramatically wrong in the edit, which I'm sure it won't. Jeez. And so in general, I just want to put that caveat out there in case. Yeah, who knows? Knock on wood. There's a lot of people here today. Yeah. You think the fantasy guys are just going to pop into the edit bay and take over? Yeah. Yeah. The Heifetz cut? Could be. Honestly, it would be great. What about the fantasy? Just incredible. The fantasy football guys are here. The watch is here today. There's a lot going on here at Sycamore. But we're here today to talk to you about lanterns as we will hopefully every Monday going forward. That is our plan. Oppenheimer. Yes. Again, unless something goes dramatically wrong tomorrow, Oppenheimer will be coming out later this week. So yes, that is very exciting. Sean Fantasy is here to wrap up our Nolan rewatch project. Thrilling. And then Buffy season five parts one and two are on the horizon. We got a lot at the I mean, thank you, Baltimore. Thank you, everyone on the Eastern Seaboard. That's right. Thank you to folks from like Florida and like all over the place who came. Florida was wild. Detroit. Yeah, Detroit. To throw out the first pitch at the Orioles Yankees game. Don't worry about the score. Doesn't matter. But Molly threw out the pitch. It was amazing. We did House of Our Life. It was House of Our Night at Camden Yards. And it was honestly just a life highlight. It was wonderful. It was incredible. The bad babies rule. Thank you to the O's for hosting us. There were hundreds of listeners there. We tried to talk to as many of them as we could. Yes. We did not see a lick of the game because we were just a meeting and a greeting. Yeah. But it was so lovely. But there was a lot of like Buffy enthusiasm. There are a few spike shots. Yeah. Which was great to see. Yeah. Delightful. A lot of bad babies in their custom bad baby and House of Our merch. Also a thrill. And who would you say won the Apple Wars at Camden Yards? I would say that as usual, Team Green feels more compelled to express support because they know how badly Team Green needs it. Sure. Sure. Green Apple after Green Apple enthusiast greeted us in Baltimore. And that's just a fact. So thank you to everyone. Thank you to our entire team who came out with us. House of Our squad, Ringer squad, Spotify squad. What would we do without Elizabeth Fehrman? You ever think about it? I cry when I think about Elizabeth. Astonishing. Elizabeth, Tessa, the best. Elizabeth who like organizes the whole thing and then also boots on the ground is taking every single photo with our listeners. You know what I mean? Just like doing everything. Arjuna, Carlos, Jomie were there. Carlos had to miss the whole game. Because he was editing the podcast. I know. Jordan from Spotify was there. And then for the O's. I mean, Patrick. Incredible. You got to meet Eve and Kevin. Sarah. Kevin Brown crashed the live event. That was wonderful. Voice of the Orioles. And Danny Heifetz was there. Heifetz was, I would say, inextricable from the experience, which was one of the most memorable days of my life. Danny Heifetz was giving us like mother bear energy. And it was just like incredibly sweet and kind. Mallory, how are you feeling? Genuinely, it was a life highlight. It was an incredible experience. I'm so proud of you. I cried. There were some glistening eyes. Yeah, it was lovely. I was very much in a state of like, until the last second, you know, is this real? Is this happening? Is this legit? This is a big prank. And I was very stressed for various reasons heading into it. And then the day itself was just euphoric. Just a joy to be there with you, to get to bring you and our house of our family home. You got to meet my family. You got to meet so many of my best buds who were there. You got to see part of my hometown. And you got to go to Camden. You know, one of the genuine sacred temples and spaces, not only in baseball and in sports, but in my life, certainly. A beautiful field. Wonderful. Gorgeous. And to be there, to get to do the live show, to get to do House of R at the Warehouse before the game, and to get to go down on the field. And we got to take a bunch of photos. The O's gave us custom jerseys. That was insane. Incredible. And I got a pair of the City Connects, which I had missed the drop for. I mean, I tried for the drop, but I didn't get it. That was just like such a perfect gift for you. You were just sort of like, wow, you guys know me. You guys really know me. I felt seen, known, and understood. Thank you, Patrick. And the Bad Babies were just as always a delight during the pod itself. That was so fun and wonderful. To go down and do the pitch, just incredible. It was really cool and great and fun. And then we got to hang with the Bad Babies in the Pure Wager Pavilion out in Centerfield for the whole game. And it was just like. It was just like a delight. It was really surreal and wonderful. And I'm thrilled that we got to do it. And I hope that we're invited back in 2027, 2028, 2029. Frankly, as long as we're making House of R. We would like to make this an annual event. Let's just throw this out there to the Baltimore Orioles, Patrick, if you're listening. We heard from a lot of people who were like, I wish I had been there. I know. The tickets were sold out. I would have come. Yeah. Let's do it again. Let's run it back. Round two. Yeah. Bigger, slightly bigger venue. In the warehouse. Oh my God. So it was just incredible. Incredible. Thank you for doing it with me. I won't truly remember it until I die. I'm right now. You know, I'm not like often posting on social media, but I am like, how many Instagram posts is too many before it becomes embarrassing? We're going to find out. I feel like I've done more than you have. And that's incorrect. You were there. You were there right away. That's incorrect. You should like flood the feed. You're a creature of the internet. You know how it's done. I'm like, no, I got to go hit Pickles Pub. And then, oh no, in 24 hours it passed. You were there too. I hadn't been to Pickles. In a thousand years. That was also fun just to be home. We had some obstacles also in Baltimore. Anyway, we should talk about, we should talk about lanterns. There's a lot to talk about. We'll probably keep talking about this Baltimore experience until we die. Forever. Forever. Will we do a live show at some point in Rushville, Nebraska? No. I'm open to it. Okay. I am open to doing a live pod from the field. Give us some Pioneers merch. Is Rushville, Nebraska a real place? I think so. Is it? Okay. Maybe then. I thought it was fictional. Okay. Spoiler warning. A little, a little different this time than last week. In general, we say comics canon is, is fair game. We will talk about it to give context. We're not going to like deep, deep, deep, deep into comics lore. There are some storylines that we were just sort of like, huh, do we want to like, does the casual listener want to know about what happened to Hal Jordan in this particular storyline? We weren't sure. And we were like, we're actually wondering if it's going to be a key part of this season. Right. And genuinely don't know, but if it is, and then we've talked about it. Yeah. Then does it feel like a spoiler for people? Right. When it wasn't intended to be. So we're being, we're being cautious. So we're going to do like a rapid fire sort of a comics lore, really more of a listener theory corner because we had a lot of listener emails about these comic storylines. So we will have a section at the end where we will give you fair warning that if you want to be hypervigilant about spoilers, this, this section is coming. We're not going to have, we may or may not have our usual sort of like horn sound, but we will definitely with our, with our brains and our hearts and our minds and our mouths give you warning to, to leave if you don't want to know. Anything else? No, I think that sounds exactly right. Maybe we'll expand that section as we go across the season. We'll see. Who knows? Who knows? Let's go now to our opening snapshot. So we're going to have our opening snapshot. We'll see. Who knows? Let's see. Who knows? Let's see. We're going to have our opening snapshot. We'll see. Who knows? Let's see. Who knows? Let's see. But with the usual caveats, when they're like best HBO max debut on us. sunday when the rain conditions were this or whatever yeah but like quite a good uh debut um outperformed it welcome to dairy the penguin and true detective night country so like pretty solid numbers um and with every expectation that they'll sort of like go up and up from there but like a pretty good start for true detective in general uh mallory rubin episode two you loved episode one how did you feel about episode two i quite enjoyed it i really did i think that splitting because so much of there were a lot of things that worked for me about the premiere but so much of what worked about this as not only about the first episode is not only an episode of television but as a uh like an onboarding into this experience of this series was the the energy between the the rapport between pal and john and so to split them up at the beginning of this episode could have gone so wrong ballsy yeah i thought it was really bold and really effective because it it not only shows us how they're each navigating life and what they're pursuing and how they think how does hal go and conduct an investigation do some true detecting right it allows us to understand you can only really understand a relationship if you understand the people inside of it right and so to have glimpsed them as a duo first and then get to see how they navigate the field and their circumstances on their own but still find creative ways like the phone call when john has arrived at hal's house and not only are they interacting by saying things to each other even though they're not in the same physical space you know as we'll talk about more when we get to that scene that's like such an intimate thing and such a revealing and illuminating stretch to have john walk through hal's nearly empty home what does that tell him my home yet well i haven't been invited you have the doors open oh the old standing invite book that's what i do and we all know that's bullshit i know turnabout's fair play uh so i really loved uh splitting them up i thought it worked quite well and then obviously they're brought back together at the end and not only are they brought back together they're brought back together with a ticking clock this new 48 hour circumstance the manhunter the hunt for the manhunter is on um i thought once again the way that this episode found the balance between the grounded rooted rushville orco city stretches and the glimpses and and uh peppering in of comic book elements you know we end this episode with not only how jordan in the suit after seeing john find the suit find the lantern power charge the ring we get a rushed hurried vow how suits up flies into space and is talking to sinestro at the end of this episode so i thought that was also really smart we're only two episodes in largely in our canvas jackets in the town of the small town in nebraska and then we end in space with sinestro so we're like signaling we are still in a green lantern story even though this has been so deliberately crafted in this kind of tonal uh space so i'm just really great there's a lot of interesting shipping fodder here for the carrie hal heads out there oh i thought it was for the sinestro hal heads that as well um and then obviously the most important thing in the entire episode is that we meet earl jordan you know how jordan peck guy you thought i was in before folks oh my god are are you a good gardener can you keep plants alive wouldn't know okay i haven't really tried i uh what if it required i think i would be okay a lot of tupperwares of beef and bison as you know our fridge at pretty much any time is mostly just full of left beverages beverages usually we don't have a lot of food in the house we have a lot of snacks in the pantry and a lot of ice cream in the freezer and the fridge is mostly just beverages and then we order a lot of food so i think i could clear the necessary space for some beef bison blend uh i have this in the notes later but i just need to get like address it right now do it uh really shocking setup honestly like delighted to meet earl jordan delighted to to find out that hal not only has a carnivorous plant alien plant that's a that's his like pet his pal or whatever but has given it his last name so sweet it's very sweet so to see the stacks of tupperware that say earl jordan he's meal prepping for earl it's very charming yeah from a food storage point of view you've got concerns i am someone who does like regularly like cook meat in the house and you have to rotate it between the freezer and then defrost it yeah and then heat it unless you're buying fresh all the time right that much thawed meat in the fridge is such cause for alarm for me and i know that hal didn't know necessarily that he was going out of town but even if he was in town yes that much yeah raw thawed meat yes right next to where you're keeping your bottle of coke and your and your course your course light yeah is that much meat that you're keeping in the fridge is a no well there are i think two possibilities one how maybe not thinking so much about food safety that strikes me as possible right two and this would be a little bit of an asterisk on the how jordan peck i'm earl jordan does earl possibly just need to eat like 12 times a day like is that maybe just two days worth of food yeah sweet little sunfire needs to devour people exactly and then then i shift into it's irresponsible to leave your pet like that what was the plan yeah how you're popping all over the galaxy nobody on call to check in and feed earl yeah he's just supposed to be going out to tacos with john he was and then he like you know fucked off to to nebraska so he didn't like have a plan in place but yeah i understand that he doesn't have a lot of attachments we understand that this is a key part of his character but you need to have like a pet sitter that you know someone a person someone's definitely cleaning that house property is immaculately kept despite being devoid of someone's cleaning all of the empty rooms there's a little robot snake in the pool like someone is checking it so maybe someone's feeding earl but how wanted john to go check in anyway i just have food safety concerns listen in our era of constant food recalls and food parallels i think this is a good flag on your part okay great um here's what i want to say i also really enjoyed this episode i i appreciate it as like a piece of entertainment a piece of storytelling and then also as like a uh not to like say something like that but i appreciate it as like a piece of entertainment something kind of douchey like a someone who like studies how tv is put together sure i thought this was really masterfully crafted because when you are launching a world like this for people yeah and you need to introduce a lot of rules this episode is heavy with exposition really heavy you mentioned the suit we get the suit we get the lantern we we learn the rules of the different things we learn about manhunters in the first place like you know there's just like a lot to learn inside of this episode and it is really deftly deplorable and it's like it's like it's and we'll talk about some sort of like some screenwriting tricks that they use to to make sure that it all felt like it moved right at a quick pace and there's a lot of showing not telling but there's also a lot of telling in this episode and oftentimes i can go very poorly but to your point they didn't really bog down the premiere with a ton a ton a ton of exposition there was a lot but like it wasn't like here's the lantern here are the rules the lanterns here's that this that and the other thing so i thought that was smart to wait till episode two to do that episode one focus as you pointed out was really on that like how to do that and i think that's really important and i think that's really important john relationship um and then uh yeah i i just really enjoyed not not just the the two of them separated to see how they work on their own right but also to see how both of them work without the ring like who are they depowered who is hal after the last five percent of the ring kicks off and he falls and he spits out gravel and he has like all those alien naked alien corpses around all just vibes just like grit and ingenuity you know and john so jealous john who's not a like superhero uh without you know he's not he doesn't have like superpowers necessarily but he holds him his own in a fight with like like obviously superpowered aliens yeah you know and and the the fight and on the freeway and um i was listening to the official podcast and they were talking about how i had already noted like what a good on-screen runner aaron pierre is but they noted that like a stunt performer spot that he was like a track star uh and and they shot it with a double a stunt double and they're like actually aaron goes faster amazing so they swapped aaron in for that and i was just sort of like incredible you could tell because the camera doesn't have to hide his face and it's actually him so like this is this is such a promising action star in the making like so the the you know the places he could go after this i've also been having a really fun time in the last week you know i mentioned that i was like familiar with the green lantern basic lore but i've have been having a really good time uh when i can grab time between trust baltimore's and like that uh digging into sort of the green lantern comics history and like um what the character has meant over time and how that has has changed the different of course people have had the monikers but also just thinking a lot about how uh the green lantern no matter his moniker or her moniker um is uh is a superhero that really engages uh writers and artists because you know john stewart is a superhero and he's a superhero hal jordan whoever they are that character is like a collaborative storyteller with a person who's making the art so because the the comic writers and artists are crafting the story they're drawing the story and they're writing the story but let's say hal jordan is also actively participating the story because depending on what he decides to create that determines like where the story goes from there so like right green lantern as a storyteller superhero and why that's what he's that has really engaged the creatives behind this character it's a great show is uh has been like and then there's like a bunch of other stuff that i will talk about as we go but like that's just been like really fun for me to educate myself a bit more on this character and what this character has meant to the various people who have um written uh him and occasionally her over the years it's a great flag early in the pod and like we got a fun a few fun little uh nuggets on that front acknowledgements of that idea in this episode something like at the end you know obviously everything with with john manifesting the bird and what that tells us about his um prodigious abilities yeah but you know something at the very end like you know we talked last week about the glimpses of uh john sketching and the through the two-way interrogation mirror etc and like the idea of perspective and artistic ability and john stewart as architect and artist but just more broadly you know you have a moment at the end of this like hal saying well that like what's up with that bird you know we'll talk about that scene more when we get there and the bird a wonderful bird and we talked about it all but i loved the bird that was just delightful and so rich in terms of what it tells us about everybody who's observing that but also john who is making it and then letting it go right there's so much to parse there but the note from hal of like well what's that about that came from your subconscious exactly you know so the what that tells us about there is often in the field in a moment of need something very practical something utilitarian about a bottle opener if you want to you know very flirtatious like a bottle opener but yeah then there is the deeper rooting in what you carry inside of you and how what you project into the world what that conveys to the world and what you think about who you are and what you what you think and how you feel and given the through line that we're tracking and that is you know inherent to lanterns canon but that we are both so interested in like what is this show a prestige tv drama on hbo interested in mining on the on the emotion front right fear and will and anger and other emotions and how they inform each other like what do all of these you know there's a really interesting uh aspect of this episode where you know anton says like have you ever had somebody you ever been deceived by somebody just like yes yes and we're like what not only is that such an intriguing note to give us for john feels very intentional that this is in the episode where we meet sinestro yeah and we're thinking about what is hal's version of that so to your point about structure the fact that this is such a uh a meaty and intriguing episode for them as individuals but those parallels are there beef and bison homemade meal prep really great i really i agree with what you said about the what do they do with that the ring it's very we talked about this recently in the context of covering another property but it's very if you're nothing without that suit then you shouldn't have it right what does the ring and the power of the ring and being chosen well due for you but also like you have you are the person who is wearing it or suiting up and what i like about what they show us in this episode is like they're so you know from the beginning and again you you you you i outlined this theme for me when you had watched the episode before i had this idea of like what is earned versus what is given to you and all of all of what the show has already told us about how john has had to like work and train his whole life to you know uh feel like he deserves to be here has earned this spot or whatever and then how it was just given to him like that that dichotomy is there but also hell is not useless without the ring and i think that that's like a really fun like complication because there could be a version of the story where he is like the privileged white man who was given this thing and then he's nothing without it you know and he and the thing that is so interesting is like he believes he is nothing without it but we watch him in this episode yeah he gets shot that's not great but like do so much through and through glad you're a fan of his work yeah do so much like yeah ingenuity wise without the ring right and so to see him you you mentioned you flagged this last week but to sort of like to see his competency yes it's crucial it's crucial okay uh let's go now to the deep dive wonderful all right before we start with the sort of the opening of this episode i do want to just have like a little pre-chat about it's 2016 this entire episode and so we had talked about the various you know 10 years apart timelines that we might explore 96 86 2006 you know 2026 were you surprised to see that this episode was just in 2016 i i don't don't yeah maybe a little but i don't i think just like reflecting on it now after the fact i don't know if i was honestly even consciously thinking about it while watching it like oh we're not moving through time i think that the split of the the two primary leads of the show right would have made also moving through time feel maybe a little full a little overly full overly stuffed so i think keeping us rooted in the present the present not of our lives here in 2026 but the primary what seems to be the primary timeline of the show um makes sense given that we were in multiple locations and that our primary figures were apart some people don't like to watch the previews for next week on so if you don't want to hear this hit fast forward like once or twice we'll keep this quick they showed the preview for episode three at the end of that certainly appears like we're moving through time next week in a very john centric episode so that's exciting so i wonder if each episode will function a little bit differently about where we are on the map where we are in time i just maybe we'll get all of it i think some people um and it doesn't matter but like i think that some people thought with this sort of true detective idea that it would be more closely hewing to what uh some seasons of true detective have been which is like we're splitting time sort of evenly between these two things right that is not the case here we're we're still we were primarily in 2016 in the first episode and we are entirely in 2016 in this episode so we'll see as you said where we go from here but i thought that was interesting i'm i will say like because we had speculated about the possibility last week based on where the premiere ended with you know how bullet hole in his forehead on the snowy bleachers to that point will we have that kind of tandem investigation across time maybe that still happens it's possible that still happens we talked about like the number of shots and then this season on where john has a goatee and seems to maybe be set in that future guy gardner's appearances etc i was happy to come into episode two and be with kyle chandler kyle chandler and naren pierre like so if that is more a like this is looming in the distance but we are largely operating in 2016 with them together or maybe glimpsing the past versus spending a ton of time in the future i mean i'm open to all possibilities i think that would be my preference given my deep and abiding enthusiasm for how full story okay exactly um are we shifting from watch to manhunter watch or do we have room for both uh inside of this episode inside of the series you know we were we were doing like we're talking about secret scroll watch which is a leftover from uh you know yeah marvel and secret invasion um and yeah great show so um as we shift into and we got a lot of emails about manhunter watch and manhunter theories which we'll talk about a little bit later but i'm still open to like anyone can be an anyone can be a manhunter anyone can i mean we meet other exactly i think that given that we meet anton still to this day i'm like spears from the wire oh yeah until the day i die that'll be just it's like that's one help it that's like when i go oh it's frank sabaka frank sabaka always chris bauer it's always a frank sabaka always oh frank sabaka um you know the team's whole crew are like this we're we're we're here for we're hunting the hunter so yes here's what i'm saying it's all in the mix we're in rushville nebraska yeah we're got our eye out for a manhunter yes i'm i'm not content to say that's all we should be looking for in nebraska i quite agree who else has taken off a hoodie and is standing there in short sleeves shivering on a snowy field like waylon loves it's a great question as being waylon we got a lot of emails from listeners with suggestions for names of aliens i put most of them in here in the document i was curious if any stuck out to you as particularly delightful should you do a dramatic reading so that we can hear out loud how many of them are in the document i'm curious if any of them are in the document actually really sound i don't think we have the time obviously it varies like accent to accent so alan haley haley ann haley ann haley ann is pretty pretty good haley ann is tough gabe said haley and nothing like a good old southern double name to give you that human energy and i agree haley ann is probably the winner there there's a lot of great ones here jacob suggested to elon would that be so surprising elon the alien um oh man our listener an alien probably wrote in to let us know and i know this is true for a lot of people that john stewart in the animated uh justice league is like their green lantern and they grew up with john stewart very important person and a very important person for a lot of people in terms of like this is the first time i saw a superhero who looked like me it was john stewart in this animated series or or in the comics or whatever yes but alan wrote in not only to say that but also to share a photo of himself credible where he worked at six flags over texas back in the 2000 i did it because dc had a partnership to put costumes together and i was like oh my god i'm so excited so i could audition to be john stewart one of the coolest experiences of my life and it's a photo of him with his mom i love this so much and he looks amazing this is so good it's very sweet so thank you for that photo thank you alan uh we also got uh several emails from listeners talking to us about jessica cruz who's who is uh a person who has had who's had the green lantern moniker yes inside the comics and a character with social anxiety and uh to really dig into that character how the comics has over the decades veered from this idea of like we were talking about this idea of emotional absolutism so veered from this idea of fear no fear fearlessness to this idea of overcoming fear and the distinction between those two. So it's not just an absence of fear. It's you feel the fear, but you do it scared anyway, right? And so there's this section where she's talking about her social anxiety and she says, the ring doesn't fix it, right? I don't get better from this. I fight anxiety every day. It's the biggest battle I have. And then also when a new Green Lantern is chosen, they're inducted to the core with a specific phrase, you have the ability to overcome great fear. So again, it's just this idea. And I understand that, again, to go back to last week's episode, I understand that was not the point you were making, that it was just a complete binary like that. But I do think when we think of something like John Sr. shooting an apple Sure. off of his child's head. Sure. In order to like make sure his child feels no fear. And we got a great email about that, that I'll read a little bit later. But like that there maybe have been some versions of that. Or if Hal feels like he's not allowed, you know, he has no attachments. He doesn't know anyone. He lost a parent. That's the scariest thing one can experience. And so he will not connect or he lost Sinestro. And that's the most traumatic thing that someone can experience, his mentor. And so he will cut himself off from people. And that is a way to avoid fear. But to, you know, avoid fear completely feels like the thing that is, leaves you the most open Sure, of course. to influence and warping. Yeah. I mean, yeah, this is what I was saying last week. It's so interesting to me about this version of the story from these creators who are obviously, you know, we're Damon superfans. That's no secret to anyone. But, you know, Ozark, True Detective, you know, Tom King's work, you know, what Mundy has made. Like, I think with these, these performers and the HBO Sunday night slot and just also like what we got right away in the first episode, that line from Carrie about, you know, these lonely, like signaling in a number of ways to us right away that the show was going to be interested in interrogating what it means to have to tell yourself, I'm not afraid. Like that is just such a interesting place to find any person, but particularly somebody in a very visible position of carrying the burden of, of being the chosen one or trying to seek out that mantle and saying, like, I'm the one who can do this thing. Everybody's eyes are on me all the time. So I also think that like those burdens of expectations, you know, that, that Mundy and all the rest have talked a lot about in terms of like how being the first human Green Lantern, there's no, there's no blueprint for this having to deal with the burden of expectations. But again, I think back to like the Jedi and like this really unreasonable expectation of like perfection and purity and how that leads to, you know, leads to the fall for so many of them, because you cannot be that perfect paragon of, of what have you. Certainly not. All right. We open with what I'm calling the Maddie Saracen in a shower, Tim Riggins running in the rain, ice bucket challenge, coach Taylor, tough love special. I don't know how they did in the caption. Yeah. He wrote cold open. There you go. That's a, that's, that's close enough. We saw this at Comic-Con, you and I both were like, it's Mad Saracen in a shower time, right? Um, John wants to know why Hal hasn't alerted the guardians about the dead aliens. And we are also curious about why Hal is reluctant to reach out to the guardians. He looks quite nervous later in the episode when he asked John if he's told the guardians about the Manhunter. Um, what, if anything, do you want to say about this? Uh, in terms of the moment at the end of the episode, you know, their conversation in the parking lot, I think in general, there's a lot to parse and read on how Jordan's face and every conversation he had with the Guardians. And I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. in this episode, you know, it's just, he's so expressive and, uh, because so much of the question of like, what is Cal, what is Hal carrying and how much of like what he's saying to other people is something he's forcing himself to believe. And how much is he just like lying to himself? What is he not ready to really like stare plainly in the face? Um, you know, I think the, like the conversation at the end, Oh, Mr. Chain of Command now wants me to break. Like, I think there's a lot of, there are a lot of potential interpretations of it. I think some of it in an episode, I think there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of so-called trust fall is always asking ourselves, which, who is interrogating whether they can trust the other person is always going in all directions. So like John choosing to tell Hal about the Manhunters when he not only didn't have to, but when Anton was like, this guy is like, don't trust him. That's obviously a huge part of the trust fall idea. But frankly, like Hal is running his test too. You calling the Guardians? No, I work for, I work for you. I report to you. Can either put their faith and trust into the bond they have with each other. Hal is constantly, constantly like this guy is here to be my trainee, but what does that really mean? What does it mean to be teaching this person how to do the thing that I have done? And so when we talk about the big idea of fear, and you mentioned this earlier, like, you know, he doesn't, he, he, what he's afraid of what he would be without the ring. Well, like what is a, what is a larger version of fear to carry inside of you than like, what is my function? Not just as a hero, but as a person. And so I think that's a person in the world. If somebody else does this thing that I do. And better than I ever did. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, there are a few times in this episode where characters, whether nefariously or not, are actively trying to drive a wedge between Hal and John. And like that, you know, that, that wedge is already there just based on the circumstances and their personalities. But the fact that there are these external forces trying to pull them apart and the fact that we at home, that tension that we at home are really hoping that they can find a way to be together. Yes. Lanterns-a-s. Yep. You know, and the fact that we know we have hanging over us this future where Hal dies alone, frozen on, on a bleacher. Were they, were they united at that point? When's the last time they had spoken to each other? Were, you know, did they ever figure it out together or did they figure out it together for a time and then it didn't, and then it fell apart or what happened? We don't know that. But, um, something that Damon Lindelof, uh, has said many times when talking about story, um, I think most recently to me when talking about severance is just like the most important thing inside of a story is are the people I care about going to be okay? Yeah. Yes. That's it. Yeah. Are the people I care about going to be okay? Will they be able to connect with each other? Right. You know? Yeah. And, uh, you know, Hal we know is going to die alone, frozen on a bleacher. So like in many ways, no, he's not going to be okay. But like, what kind of connection can you find before there? Does he have a connection with, with Carrie at some point? Did he know that Noah was all state before John found out? I mean, yeah. And then which is more, you know, we were briefly, that would be, I mean, I like, that's our headcanon, whether or not it ends up being true. The answer is yes. We talked about this very briefly at the end last week, but like, what's more tragic? If Hal and John do forge that we want them to forge and then we lose Hal or if they don't quite, and that those wedges that people are trying to insert, but that was why it felt so wonderful. It's interesting to hear, you know, you mentioned the official pod that, that, that on that, um, in that discussion, like very quick mention of just how that specifically, like what is the right moment to have John tell Hal about the Manhunters was like a huge discussion in the room. And I think this feels really right. Deciding to have him do it. Not only like, frankly, practically because the 48 hour clock, it's like, yeah, we need to get, we're, we're, we're inside of this pressure cooker of that, of that countdown. But it tells us that John, despite all of the things that he's caring about Hal and the, the, they're both constantly looking at the other person. Like, you know, there are a lot of moments like that in the premiere that we talked about last week. There are a lot of them in this episode too, including right in this flight training scene, like unclenched so good, right? They're both seeing something in the other one. That doesn't sit quite right. But then there's also something maybe to pull them toward each other. And John choosing to tell Hal that is a really big, it would be very easy to let everybody else, you know, Zoe and the cafe, like, if you have to ask if you can trust them, you already know. But then what does John do right after that in a moment of real intensity where he's like, you fucked up the rental car. You don't take anything seriously. It's all a fucking joke to you. Still, I'm going to tell you this. And, and attention for us at home is a question of like, how much of that is a joke to you? And I think that's a really good question. I think that's an actual bid for connection and how much of that is his training of the chain of command, you know? Um, okay. So we have this flying sequence. I'm a fighter pilot. So I've heard is, is real. Like I have the blood of Akasha and me, uh, from Hal Jordan. How many times has he said it? So, um, but there's a couple moments and, and you mentioned, you mentioned Kyle Chandler's face and the play of emotion where like this idea of fear, if Hal Jordan is a character who is been heroic in his life, but is really having a crisis of fear and insecurity at this moment in his life. Something that Kyle Chandler does repeatedly, he does it here. He does it later when Carrie pulls him over where he's almost like a kid who's been like caught. And then he's sort of like squares his shoulders and is like defiant in, in the moment. But there's like this, this childlike fear of like, oh man, she's pulled me over and I have naked alien corpses in the car. But then he's just sort of like, what? You know, he's posturing. Right. And so he does it here when he like, oh man, I have naked alien corpses in the car. And then he's just sort of like, When John puts the ring on, he holds it up and Halleck recoils. Yeah. Like, has an instant recoiling of, like, as soon as you put the ring on, this is something he's afraid of. As soon as he puts the ring on, he's going to use it on me and take the Green Lantern from me, and it's going to be over. Yeah. Right? So there's this instant recoil and then this sort of, like, posturing. And then later, like, when John first tries to fly, he does this, like, sort of back up. But then he's like, I knew he wasn't going to be able to do it. It's just, like, this wordless passage of play of emotions on his face constantly. I liked that we got a version of that from John, too, in this episode with Earl, actually. Like, he, when Earl first kind of activates, and John also is like, whoa, you know? And it's like, yeah, there are people, and part of being a person or a lantern is saying, okay, I got it. I'm, like, I'm going to be cool here. I'm overcoming here. Yeah. What is the real, you know, and we love the, you know, we mentioned last week both the kind of Dune litany of fear version, which, like, is fear is the mind killer, fear is bad, but still even that. It's about telling yourself, using your training to push through it. We are more prone to the thrones-ian. Where do you find your courage? You find your courage by working through your fear. That's something that we love inside of Thrones, but also talk about in other stories. The fact that for John in that moment with Earl, it's almost like reflex, right? Part of being a person is responding to, like, to stimuli, but also there's the bird. He's like, don't eat my bird. And so he's thinking about, like, protecting a thing that at the end of the episode, he will have to put his hand on and turn to dust. That's honestly the wildest moment of the episode. It was great. To watch him, again, from like a screenwriting perspective, to give John something to protect this entire episode, that's the like classic screenwriting, saving the cat sort of thing. So to give him something vulnerable to protect and also to see the bird sort of like fly into action during the van fight. The bird is like pecking at the alien who's attacking him. So like there is a bond between them. No question. John reaching out to catch the bird as he dies. But so for him to just dispassionately, whether that's a performance or not, but dispassionately, you know, turn that bird into ether is. Yeah, it's another version of these. Stunen. Stunen, all connected, right? Another version of like, I mean, what is on the Kyle Jordan face front, like what is playing in Hal's mind in that moment? What is the test always that they're running on each other? But for John, it felt like a, you're telling me that this has to be something massive in terms of what it says about, my like psyche, my past. You don't get to know that. But like also, right, like nothing, I determine what matters to me, right? And so it's another version of are you afraid? Are you afraid? Like, are you defined by any of the things other than the decision you make in the moment to take the next step forward? It's like, feels like John feels like he has to say, I don't need this bird to be with me. Would it be so bad to keep the bird with you? But he feels like he has to do that to prove something. Really, really interesting. Need it. But also just to sort of like, that's an insight from Hal. There's some, I mean, that has to be true. That bird has to mean something to him that we will surely find out. But like for him to be like, no, that's a lie and that's a wall, right? No, it doesn't mean anything to me, you know? On the Hal, the flinching in the flight training too. The other thing, of course, on the fear, there's the like, oh, am I gonna, am I about to be blasted back? Are you gonna like bop me in the face with some construct? There's all of that where you take, like where you try to take over in this moment, like you said. There's also just like, the fear that's underlying all of this of, will you be better at this than me? Will you be so good at this? And he instantly is. And then the, but like you said, the relief of, oh, you can't fly. You can't fly. I get to be better at this one thing. But then you make this bird, oh fuck. You make this bird that like, no one can do in comics canon. Like to make something alive is extremely rare for a Green Lantern to be able to do it, to be able to keep it intact without having the ring on. To pass out, because what Hal says is like, you lose concentration, you lose the bird and he passes out and the bird's still there. Intriguing. Yike. All right. So we get this ring near depletion moment. Our listener Steve says, haven't we all had to do work and the charger is at home? Great moment. It is real. I wrote down iPhone charger as well in my notes because it is a real like, okay, you can do so much. You know, the idea that with the ring, the, the only limit is your imagination, what you can conceive. Well, that's very powerful. But then these practical caps, right? You've got to remember to charge. Is the lantern with you? The way that, that, that it's not just something for us to think about as viewers or readers, but like Waylon called that out in the first episode in the interrogation scene with Hal for a reason, right? How, how much, how much power do you have left? Right? Did you bring the lantern with you? But this is something I have to think about. Is that like a leash or a collar that the guardians have put on the Green Lanterns and just sort of, that, that cap on their power, right? You're going to have to go plug in at home. Okay. Take the lantern with you. And yes, this just in, in terms of inside the flow of this, that's more broadly about the canon. What's interesting. So in terms of the flow of the season, Chekhov's one-time re-up trick. Oh, the 5%. The Fonzie bump on the ring. Obviously that will come back into play in some moment. The question then becomes in what circumstance and for? Who over whom's? I hope it's John. He's paying attention. He's, he's learning lessons. That would be great. Um, all right. How makes John take a flight back to, to Coast City? Can I just say very quickly? Which is a fictional city, unlike I guess, Rushville, Nebraska. Some San Francisco ties in the, in the, in terms of where in California this is supposed to be. Um, the show, we've talked a lot about individual lines that have made us laugh, but just broadly, one of the things that is working so well about the show is that it is funny. This show could have been so like dour and serious. The booked you a window, I don't understand on an airplane. There are seats. There are seats near the window and seats near the aisle and seats in the middle, but nobody wants this. It's just like the injections of very authentic levity into these conversations. Obviously, Unclench was a great one. You know, cut out the sir bullshit. We both know you don't mean it. Like, this is a funny scene. We just talked about all of these really intense character beats and a lot of interesting lore beats. I was laughing watching the scene. It's a hard balance to strike. I think it's, it's very impressive so far through two episodes. For us to, in that scene, learn about ring depletion, trick power-ups, how concentration and, constructs are connected, flying, like all of that just happens in this one parking lot scene. And in almost every scene in this episode, at least two things are going on at the same time. Right. And that is like, yep, a really smart way to keep us sort of activated and entertained. Even in like, you know, one of the most egregious, egregious lore dumps, but like, I love the scene, was when Anton is telling him about the Manhunters. And like, just the way that is shot, where the camera keeps cutting to this device, that is being assembled. You know, so the tension is racking up and we're like, what is that? That doesn't look like human. What is that? John's worried about what that is. We don't know what that is. And so like, Anton's talking, we're paying attention, but we're also like, what's that? What's that? What's that? You know? And so that's just like, keeps it lively. It keeps it going, you know? Our sweet little bird is watching from the drop ceiling. and yeah, cutting to the bird, cutting to the device. And you're just like, what's happening? All right. So, so after the parking lot scene, the flying instruction that is not really a flying instruction, opening credits logo, Hal works the case. We find Hal sitting on the bleachers where he will die. How many times do you think we're going to return to like, that image of him sitting there on those bleachers as his like, thinking spot? And, and would it make it interesting if like, if that's his favorite spot to go and think for the rest of the season, then like, what was he going to have a think about, you know, in the snow when he died? I know. It was quite, it had that real, just authentic, like, oh man, you feel your heart and your stomach kind of, clench when you see him there after how episode one ended. And it makes sense. He's there. He's there to look for clues, to investigate the crime. He's panning the scene. He's taking an Intel. He's down looking at the blood spots, but it does just emotionally for us as viewers. We talk about the 48 hour clock. There's this 10 year clock, right? For us of doom of peril for this person. So then, yeah, like, I don't know. There's a part of me that wants them to maintain a level of discipline where we're not going to see him there every single episode. And then there's a part of me that wants them to maintain a level of discipline where we're not going to see him there every single episode. And then there's a part of me, that's like, if every episode I see him sitting there and I feel that way, there will be something very effective about that. So yeah, really good. It's funny. You know, we talked last week, of course, about in terms of this, like 2026 specter, this looming over the season. Yes. We talked, I talked, I brought up Better Call Saul, which is one of my favorite things to talk about, of course, and, or, you know, is another version of that where we know where those characters will, will go by the end of and, or, but of course, and I would say spoilers for loss, but it's been a really long time. This is, this is a lost construction, the flash forward and lost. And so when you're watching lost and you know, certain characters do or do not make it off the island in that stretch of the story, or like what's going to happen to someone like Jack Shepard, where you're like, he's having these wins, but you know that there's, there are these losses coming for him. Like that tension, that, that narrative tension and that, that emotional sort of like devastation, pre devastation that's like waiting for you. And so even every win for how Jordan, feels like a loss because we're one step closer to 10 years from now, you know, lost as a comp and an influence. Welcome always here on the house of R and for us, I think to the balancing act then of giving us as viewers moments where we have foresight and awareness of something that the characters don't their fate dramatic. I mean, again, who knows? We got into theory corner a little bit last week. Like who knows what we're actually seeing on that bleacher, but if that is what we're saying, but then you pair that dramatic, ironic irony with the fact that we, because this is an investigation starts as the murder investigation and now it's alien investigation. manhunter investigations, the benefactor, what other tech is here, where we're learning as you're tracking through these bits of the dispensing, the lore, and the canon, and the mythology, sometimes we're very much in tandem, like, you know, John saying to Anton, like, I actually don't know what you're talking about, and we're, like, in a similar position, or maybe if you're a comic book fan, as we'll talk about when we get there, you have more information that you're bringing. But there are things that we don't know, and maybe Hal has more information than we do. We still have this big thing hanging over of, like, the hologram, and the alert, there's Hal in Rushville, and this question of what led Abin Sur to this place in the first place, which we get some little breadcrumbs. So there's this question over this episode of, like, what does Hal know? It was really interesting. Yeah, really interesting on this front, I thought, to have the clear, I know I'm moving a little bit in and out, but, like, to have, when John told Hal about the Manhunters. Hal is, like, reacting, where did you hear that word, right? It's not like he's never heard of the Manhunters, but, so he knows something, something we as viewers don't, and yet he doesn't know everything because he has to go ask Sinestro. So this level of, like, moving in and out of time, and then who has what level of insight or awareness when, including us at home, that can just be, like, really hard to pull off in a way that feels. Disorienting. Yeah, steady, but so far. It's working, I think, quite well. All right, so Hal's working the case. This might be me just being dumb, but, like, he's on the field. Yeah. Largely, I know this is a Pioneers team. Yes. We get the Pioneers logo on the coach's jacket later at the town hall meeting or whatever. Like, that's, it's a Pioneers. But there's also, like, a Bison, like, a Go Bison sort of. I thought that was just the Kimball, the other team, because it says KB Bison. Oh, okay, okay. So that was the other team. I think it's just the away team. They had a, they had, okay. Probably put up there, you know. They brought the, the cheerleaders or some members of their, their band or something. Thank you for clarifying. That was my, I think, Kimball Bison. Sports job. That's my assumption. So, Hal drives, he, like, he does the whole gambit with the, with the metal detectors that are not metal detectors. He drives through town. It looks all deserted. He turns off the car on the middle street and gets out, and then he flies up to the ground. This flying looks so much better to me because they did not use a digital double. This is definitely Kyle Chandler on a crane somewhere. Maybe literally on that street. I don't know. But, like, you know, they just sort of, like, launched him up. And also, the later flying takeoff looked really well, really good because in Darkest Night, it looks better in Darkest Night than in Brightest Day. Sorry. It's just a fact. In terms of digital doubles and flying. What does the vowel mean to you? What does the oath mean to you? I love this. This is so, this is so sci-fi and eerie, as will the empty hospital be later, right? Creepy. The fact that the entire town can just press pause on everything. That happens in the town to have a town meeting. That's, that's some sci-fi. That's some Twilight Zone shit. Yes. It also, of course, is a little Dylan Texas is readying for the game, you know, because you see Coach Taylor, it's like everyone's at the stadium. They're there for the Panthers game. But yeah, there was an eerie quality that carries into the town hall meeting itself in terms of this large, on the who knows what question, this question of what level of awareness does anyone else have? So there's the Macon Ranch militia. But what does this have to do with the wider town? Because the, like, were you talking about me? You were talking about me, the hush that falls over the room and how Jordan walks in. I think there's some fun, you know, speculating to do about what level of, like, this is going on in my town, awareness anybody outside of a certain group has. I thought the, so the re-up of the ring and then immediately the falling, like, first of all, effective. It's just not going to last very long if you do the emergency power-up, right? Two episodes in a row where the, television show Lanterns has shoved Kyle Chandler's perfect, beautiful face into either a brick wall at a bar or the gravel, gravelly asphalt. You object. I, it's my big note so far. Je téléphonais à la police. All right. It's my big note so far. All right. You mentioned, were you talking about me? I'm calling this section a very harried Sheriff Gary. We're at the town hall meeting. The charm offensive from Kyle Chandler. Oh my God. So something I learned that I didn't know. Uh, is that Alan Scott, who's the original Green Lantern, was designed after characters from folklore mythology. Gil Kane designed Hal based on Paul Newman. It tracks. So that's where we're starting. We're starting with Paul Newman, the twinkle in the eye, Paul Newman. Fun fact about Jon Stewart, 1971, Jon Stewart based on Sidney Poitier. Oh man. Paul Newman and Sidney Poitier. That's, uh, that's the film Paris Blues, which rules. And so that's just what Green Lanterns is. It's just Paris Blues, but in comics. Genuine legends. Icons. Yeah. The hottest men alive. So just something to think about. Oh man. Um, all right. The detectors here at the town hall, at the Legion Hall as well. More alien detectors. Billy Macon, surely at his father's behest, wants to come talk to Hal, urges him to go back to Coast City. We will get that urging again from Macon Senior. Uh, not to mention Sheriff Gary. Um, yeah. Several listeners let us know that Melanie Linsky has appeared on Batlog with her husband, Jason Ritter. Look at that. So good for them. That was something we were hoping for. Apparently it's already happened. They already thought about it. Will you be beginning your Matlock journey during season one of Lanterns? After season one of Lanterns. No. I have a lot of other things to watch, but I support the Matlock lovers out there. Um, I love when he says chirping about vengeance. What a great phrase. Really good. Loved that. Yeah. Really, really good. And then he says, you don't shoot people because of a gut feeling, talking about what Macon Senior and his, and his militia did. So like, how do they know it was aliens? Which is such an interesting thing for him to say when he like talks so glowingly about his own gut to be like, you don't just go and gut alone and do something like this. And it's like, Hal's like, but my gut. But I would. Never wrong. Yeah. Because my gut is my gut. It's certain. Do as I say, not as I do, you know, sort of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the chirping about vengeance thing. Billy not replying to that. You know, we've talked a lot about what we can read and, and Hal, what we can read and John, but what are we reading in any member of this weird little town as well? And Billy's response to that was, was interesting to track. Certainly how much is like, I know something that I'm not saying, how much is. Fear, right? For, for, uh, for young William Jr. There. That's just, just asking. Yeah. Just a question. We're just asking questions. Um, the dual response to, excuse me, honey. Absolutely killed me. I was going to let you take it from here. It's just, it's an app. It's a gift. Again, this was so funny. Um, just as Hal saying like, you know, I, yeah, I don't think I can keep quiet for that. Not long, really great. And then of course he gets the phone call from John and has to leave. But so what was your, okay. When, so because there was so much, what seemed to be authentic kind of maybe bonding is overstating it, but Carrie and Hal inside of the episode, you know, the later sequences sitting vigil at his bedside by my bedside. Did you, I tried to freeze frame Mahoney my way into the book, which he was reading and I could not figure it out. I'm like blind. And as I told you, one of my eyelids is like half swollen shot, but yeah, I thought you might've grabbed the title. Um, she, so when they're talking, we can watch these episodes with subtitles, notably the murmurs, the chatter when Hal walks in. So it's the case on the screen, or at least I'll say I, I got to check. I confirmed this was the case on HBO max too. I'll have to do that and report back next week. Whatever the town's people are murmuring. Peas and carrots, not subtitle. Don't want us to know exactly what they're saying in that little stretch there. So that's interesting. You could pick up on one line I caught. Why don't they go back where they're from now? The lanterns certainly. Because so much of this episode as Hal is discussing in many scenes is they want me to leave. It makes me think I should stay right. And Megan just directly is like, get out of here. And slightly more, um, more murdered version of that. Yeah. But the fact that Sheriff Carrie in this scene in a very onstage public setting where, and she'll later say to Hal, very Allison Hightower, um, to Otto Hightower, like when you cut, you know, when you undermine me at that table full of men, right? Like coded conversation here, but she throws to the coach. We were just talking about the game and the coach is like, no, we weren't. Yeah. You know, it has to stand up. So she's participating in that fiction. Even though later she will be more forthright with him. It seems how many people in that room have a level of information about anything happening on the Macon ranch, the benefactor, anything else, or the Macon's the only ones in possession of those facts. What does Carrie herself know? Great questions. Very curious. Great questions. Um, on this sort of like, we know where this is going. I wanted to talk about that also in terms of the tragedy of this like ship you have running, right? Because like, sure. Any step forward, we make any sort of like answering to Hun moment that we have in an episode, there's an air of tragedy because it's going to be Carrie looking at his dead body 10 years from now. You know, I just hope that they got 10 years of great sex in before that. Um, our listener, we should all be so lucky. Our listener, uh, Atharv, I believe is how, uh, you pronounce his name. Um, was talking again about this idea of the, like the 10 year dramatic irony. And they wrote, "I also think it's extremely interesting to make a mentor-mentee show about the lanterns in a universe where we already know neither is the green lantern in quote present day right obviously guy gardner is not in the show yet not for long but this is one of the better dramatic uses of a universe where we know that in 2016 hal has the ring and john is his mentee and yet in 2026 hal is dead and somehow guy got the ring and that can't have been what anyone wanted so how why and tom king on the official podcast last week said guy gardner has the ring right like that's that's where yes hal's missing ring it's on guy gardner's finger so we you know we were like oh there are multiple rings blah blah at that point hal's ring which is not on his frozen little fingies it found guy gardner much like nathan fillion a very important part of my life for a long time crashing the comic-con panel yeah you know guy gardner came in and you know you had you had brought up guy um call him guy you brought up guy you brought up guy a couple times last pod and and that question of yeah what would it mean would it mean that something had changed about the core rule at that point well here's my question or is he interfering perhaps did he abscond with the ring just you know something like that but theory corner tell me because can you know this question of like there can only there can be only one right let's say there's one ring designated to earth one ring uh-huh can john stewart be the green lantern without a ring because of what we learned in this episode if that is one of the interests of the show exploring that question yeah they are doing a good job of laying track for examining it just thought yeah um there's this great write-up of this 1998 san diego comic-con panel where john broom who uh wrote hal jordan for like basically the entirety of the 60s who has given very few interviews in his life basically he worked at dc for like the 1960s and then like left tried to unionize uh at dc didn't really work out kind of left and and didn't give a ton of interviews hasn't talked about it but he did this panel in 1998 and reading this write-up was so cool because it was like all of these like comic greats came to like attend the panel and like to hear him speak pay homage oh i love it to john broom but he was talking about how in the 60s when they were doing green these green lantern comics yeah that they would start with the cover they would do the cover art this is what he said the cover sometimes provided the story in a sketchy kind of way then i'd work out some kind of understanding or explanation of the cover the cover usually presented some kind of mystery something was happening someone was getting poisoned or frozen or killed or something like that so i just like this idea of like the hal jordan death tableau in 2026 being sort of this like okay that's what's gonna happen now we need to figure out how we get there sort of challenge that the show gave itself in this sort of green lantern comic tradition which i really like this episode is brought to you by panda express telling someone you love them it isn't always easy but showing them through food sometimes that's better than words especially when that food's wok cooked at panda express a joe house favorite pick from delicious classics like orange chicken honey walnut shrimp kung pao chicken and black pepper sirloin steak perfect for when you're watching the team you love or eating with the person you love have you eaten yet click or tap the banner to order or visit a panda express near you this episode is brought to you by a whole foods market get everything you need to win thanksgiving at a whole foods market we're talking seasonal favorites from the bakery easy weeknight meals for before the big day and sales on body care and candles for last minute gifts plus with more than 300 band food ingredients storewide you know it's quality you can trust shop thanksgiving favorites with higher standards at whole foods market prime members shop at wfm.com and you can buy a whole food and get your first order over 25 delivered free terms apply of corpses and mansions and super suits yeah um i would divide like a lot of times when we sort of uh lay out the notes if how's doing something over here and john's over here we'll take it in chunks but these are so intermingled we have to do it together um and this is where is that not the lesson perhaps inside of our lanterns blake snyder's famous screenwriting book save the cat uh has this among the many lessons about how to hide exposition one of my favorites is one called um pope in the pool technique um which is originally from a script called the plot to kill the pope where the pope is being like given details of his day like uh his secretaries are like these are all the things you have to do today but the pope is swimming while it's happening and it is such like an unusual thing to see that you're just like distracted by it and this is something that like this is something that i've been doing for a long time i've been doing this for a long time the big short made great use of where they're like here's magarabi in a bathtub you know what i mean here's anthony bourdain like here's here's how we're going to do this a great uh one of the primo examples of this is in jurassic park when mr dino dna is like on screen being like dino dna and we is not you know and the and the yeah you know the characters are making fun of the thing they're watching but we as an audience are against our will learning about dna at the same time you know so it's like these various screenwriting tricks so well john is finding out about the house how empty it is what that tells us about how seeing the suit for the first time seeing the lantern for the first time meanwhile how jordan is dragging naked alien corpses around town and so there's this like distracting comedy element you know physical comedy element that's telling a story about what how's doing right corpse that that is just sort of like injecting energy into this lore dump that we get of like and and also undercutting you know we get this like moment and in the after episode you know we get this like moment and in the after episode you know we get this like moment and in the after episode you know we get this like moment and in the they showed a little clip of the making of the episode where they were like and the director was instructing aaron pierre when he's holding the suit up in front of mary he's like no really take a beat this is something you've thought about your whole life picture yourself in that i wrote mirror of air said sort of like moment in our notes right and then the way the lantern is shot where the camera just gets all kind of like swooshy and swirly or this the the pocket dimension inside of the box like all this stuff is like extremely cool big important moments cut to hell with you know corpse stuff in a corpse in and out of a trunk you know it's just like that's such smart storytelling that i really really admire it's hard to pick the my favorite part of this episode because it had a lot of scenes i really love but i do think that this sequence was when i was like we're we're cooking we're really cooking do you think that that is why one of the framed how with celebs photos that we see that is on the ground but not hung is how with the pope a little bit of a wink a little bit of a nod um the pope in the pool yeah uh do you think that that's why you think it's also why the harry potter cast i mean it's the sense with mirror of air set you know it's and also the dimensions last that was funny to think back then to the interrogation they only made 22 of them and i had to go to every premiere to take photos of them because i'm hal jordan and earth's first green lantern something i think pope benedict being here is really interesting we'll talk a little bit later about some like the green lantern dc in general is always this sort of like gods and heroes kind of thing and green lantern specifically in the sort of cosmology of that but um but this idea of like um revealing superheroes supers yes to earth yeah and how you might need to sort of like go make the religious leaders of the world feel comfortable with your presence reminds me a little bit different obviously different uh lens but a little reminds me a little bit of the disclosure day conversation right about how if people found out that we weren't alone and then the in the universe what role would would people's faith have inside of that uh we could see in this episode we could see how with the the the golden trio and then we could see the pope in the inside the episode you could see how with obama and then how with push yeah yeah it takes all kinds uh man i think how post is trump something we don't have to ask ourselves maybe this early in 2016 okay so um potato with a smile or a frown if i left it upside down sorry dad so , so kyle chandler says what we already know he's a lonely character we see that we see this very empty house right yeah um how jordan historically kind of bad at romance in the comics right carol carol is someone who's in love with the green lantern but has no time for how jordan uh one of those classic uh gambits the uh you know we get to glimpse obviously lawn chair in the living room tv the same lawn chair that he's sitting with at the motel so this guy loves a lawn chair that he could put a cold one in but when we got to see the bedroom you know and have one of the things how says john's like you know when i lived here eight years yeah i have a bed so he has a nightstand milk crates yeah no nightstand on the other side like a nightstand sad there's not a lot of company it is sad you know here's what um i read this great uh essay um by ritesh babu on the website or blog shelf dust perhaps i just want to cite it um he says with how jordan specifically john broom explored the question that emerged from that 60s hero at what cost at what price yeah sure how could save the universe every tuesday but he could never get his life right he was always a mess the will they won't they romance of the period and a subversive twist is given a definitive answer after a point as carol moves on just when how prepares to commit and propose so i really like thinking about you know you mentioned already today the the newsreel footage footage that we get of how the pilot you know saying well when you've lost your lost your parent like what else is there to fear this idea that this question of how Well, now that he is Green Lantern, the way that he thinks about relationships, the way that he thinks about the potential risk to people he cares about, the potential cost of losing them, how much of that is something that has been informed and kind of, like, chipped into the marble or chipped out of the marble of Hal Jordan in his stint as Green Lantern, and how much of it is this, like, formative wound of, like, well, you can't mourn someone you never allowed yourself to love, you know? I'm just saying, inside of a show that Damon Lindelof worked on, somebody has daddy issues that has impacted their ability to connect with other people. Christian Shepard is that you! Did you hear the tinkle of the ice in the glass? Double daddy issues for both John and Hal. Something they could bond over. No question. Guys, talk about it. Suit time. This is what costume designer Cynthia Summers said in the post-episode. He had many of them, the suits. They're fairly beat up. It's about, they're faded because the man himself is faded at this point in time. More crucially, for you, perhaps, Malia Rubin, we do see the suits. Yeah. In these pristine sort of garment bags. We see a tuxedo. We do. Yeah, bow tie and all. When are we going to see Hal Jordan in his tuxedo? I guess when he gets back out to meet in famous people and go into premieres again, you know? Okay. We also see what looks like maybe like a really early. To me, not Frasier and Mahoney, but doing my best, a sort of like green leotard situation. I thought it was just a maybe tight sweater, a form-fitting sweater, but I love the idea that it might be a leotard. Well, there's like the domino mask is also like elsewhere in the thing. So I feel like this is, if we're very good. Will we be rewarded? Perhaps in 1986, we will get to see 60-year-old Kyle Chandler stuffed into a green leotard and a domino mask. I can only hope. Dare to dream. But also, it's the hope that kills you, you know? I mean, that would be, I don't know if I would survive, frankly. I really thought that this stretch, us seeing this through John's eyes, all of it, was just so smart. The fact that Hal has been here eight years, but barely put any of his own possessions. He doesn't have a lot of things that he, maybe he's like, I don't need to be surrounded by a lot of, you know, stuff. And I don't need to like have a lot of like merchant shit around me to feel like I have connection in the world. Couldn't be me. He's able to function without that. But there's a note, I think, undeniably of just like, he has not put down roots in this place. He has not put down a lot of things that have meaning to him because he's not allowing himself to. That was very sad. The most sort of like lived in space is the greenhouse where Earl is. No question. Earl is thriving. Again, maybe perhaps being deprived of multiple meals, but he has a lush, robust space. I did notice, you know, like the bed. It looked comfortable. Maybe Hal Jordan, a hot sleeper, because it looked like, you know, it's like a nice, yeah, a top sheet and perhaps like a thin quilt, but not like a big comforter. Sure. I'm just thinking about what our nights together would be like. But to the suit point, you know, you said like the pristine kind of like back from the dry cleaner bags that a couple of them are in and there's the one that's out. What that tells us is basically what we already know because Hal literally said it in the first episode. He's just not wearing them. He doesn't really wear their suits. He's had no reason, no compulsion to take them. He doesn't really want to take them out of those bags, which is. It's well, it's very interesting to me. I don't know. And maybe comics would tell me this, but I don't know what protect. Well, so, so I mean, the point about a character like Green Lantern, which has existed for decades in the comics, is that the lore can change based on who's writing. So like, so I was curious when Hal puts the ring on later in this episode and then takes the sling off. Right. I was like, oh, does the ring always have regenerative properties? Sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. Yeah. So like in terms of putting that suit on at the end of the episode, we've seen him fly without the suit. Right. Does it give him any kind of protection in space or is it something he put on so that Sinestro could see him in the suit? That was, yeah. Yeah. Is this a performance for Sinestro or is this a practical, I need this so I don't freeze when I fly through various atmospheres or something like that? Yeah. I would prefer it be that performance. I think so. Because it's. One of those things where like, even if the suit does have that practical utility, he could still just construct something with the ring. True. So that if he didn't want to put the suit on, he wouldn't need it, but he chooses to put it on. So the, maybe there's a little bit of being pulled back on the daddy issue from being pulled back into that younger version of yourself. I'm going to go meet my fallen mentor and I need to be the hot shot I once was. The ship-shaped hero. Yeah. Surprising to get out the just for men and sort of like go after the grace. It's funny that you say that because there was something that I thought was different about the style. Like the styling of his hair. Like it was just more. He was quaffed. Yeah. Less rumpled and like, God, he just looked. Dude, the camera angle. I was like, I need a moment. He just, it's insane. How am I supposed to concentrate on pod prep when Hal Jordan's standing there looking like that? Holy fuck. And on that front, by the way, you know, when, when John finds the, the, the, the, the box, finds the box, what's in the box, finds the box. And then Hal explains, you know, it's a pocket dimension, Junior. Just feel around in there and you'll find it. Incidentally, that's what I'd like to say to Hal Jordan. And I'm going to get one of those in there for you every week. That's my promise to you. You just want to save the social team time on making the quote cards. And you're like, you guys can just reuse that slide over and over again. Oh my God. You're very special to me. Uh. Oh God. Oh, and just the physical. To your point too about the ring. Like obviously. Infamous 2011 film. You're using the ring to generate the suit. This is a physical tactile. Like there's a thick. You know, they're the big kind of broad shoulder pads. But there's a just like you could wear that into war. I just love it. I love that suit. And I've seen some people who like don't like it or really want John to have a different suit. And certainly like John's suit will be different from Hal's suit. That's the way these things go. Yeah. But I think that suit would look great on Aaron Pierre. And it made sense in the show's universe. The world that this show has built. It's a very like. Well, I don't. I haven't found out if specifically they were going for this. But to me, it looks like. It looks like as close to like a flyboy jacket as they could find. There's just this sort of like leather sort of like broad shoulder to it. I love that. I think you're right. That seems right. All right. The voice activation is Mogo doesn't socialize. Great stuff. Which is a comic reference to a Green Lantern. Mogo, who is a planet, cannot come to the meetings because it's literally a planet. We love a sentient planet. But what I think is interesting is that is an Alan Moore story. Mogo doesn't socialize. And Alan Moore. You know, obviously near and dear and weird to our hearts. I couldn't find a voice listed in the cast for the box dialogue, though. Deep in the closing credits, there's a Spanish language voice actor listed for Caja Dimensional, which is dimensional box. So but I was just like, is that a voice I should know for both the sort of like a ring nearly depleted voice, which is a male voice. And then the female voice of the of the box. The box has a female voice. Sure does. Sure does. I really hope we get to see how Jordan spent some time. With the box. In that box. Rummaging around the box. OK. Reach around and you'll find it. Anything you want to say about Earl that we haven't already. OK, here's I asked you, but I just need to interject. Yeah, please. Tom King claims this is done practically with puppeteers. He said that at San Diego Comic-Con. In the closing credits, three people are credited as Earl puppeteers. I love this. Yeah. Jim Shermets, Victor Broadley, Roderick Cajetorian. That looked so CG to me. I wasn't mad. It didn't look bad, but that did not look like a practical effect to me. So until I see the behind the scenes, I believe that there was a there were puppeteers on set and they like did all this, that and the other thing. Then I believe they digitally painted over it. OK, so you need to learn about the Rocketeers. You need to see the Grogu animatronic or puppeteering before you're convinced. Well, look. Listen, you this would make you a good Green Lantern. You are a skeptic. I will just. And you're going to go investigate. I will turn my microphone in. Don't do that. I need you. If that is just if that is just a puppet. Lower the stakes. OK. Lower the goddamn stakes. We have podcasts to make. What I'm really excited about is that there's so many puppets in Labyrinth that you get to see tonight. I'm really excited for you to find out about it. I simply can't. Will I look at the puppets with the same reverence that John looks at? The suit and the Lantern was maybe. What do you want to say about Earl that we haven't already? Just thought this was wonderful. You know, thought it was great. And I think it's very humanizing to know this about how that he has Earl Jordan. And also, I did think it was very sweet that John goes from like, what the hell is this? Like, he's disgusted by the meat. He's a vegan. All of it. The spoons are all torn up. But don't eat my bird into like the little like the smirk, the little kind of half smile. And he's just like fucking Jordan. Like. He learned a lot about how not only with Earl, but by moving through his home. And on the one hand, I'm inclined to say that how wouldn't have shown him or told him otherwise. But on the other hand, how sent him there? Now we get the other side, the darker underbelly of that later. Yeah. Which is like very racially coded. Yes. But the fact that there is like this real insight into who this person is, what does he care about? What is he not allowing himself to care about? Was just a really rich aspect in the stretch. And I hope that we get a lot of Earl. It certainly sounds. In the official pod, like we are not done with Earl. And I think that that is frankly appropriate and right. So according to the official pod. Damon named him Earl. We haven't asked Damon yet why Earl. I'm happy to throw my guess out the window, which was it was named after the puppeteer Michael Earl who puppeteered Audrey 2 from Little Shop of Horrors. It's very Audrey 2, Little Shop of Horrors coded, this particular carnivorous plant. But I always love to honor the puppeteers. That's all. Okay. It can only be you. Will Earl eat a person slash alien slash manhunter before the season is through? Interesting. I don't know how much Earl can move. Does Earl travel? Because what the best option would be is that Earl comes kind of out of nowhere to save John and or Hal from someone who's attacking him. But does that mean Earl can hop in his little pot out the green? Because if they're fighting in the greenhouse, then we're just waiting for Earl to come and chomp someone, right? So it's going to have to happen elsewhere. In order for it to feel like a surprise, you know? Yeah. So maybe Hal will realize Earl's not going to get his calories. We've got to bring him to Rushville. Okay. It did say no vacancies at the motel. Could we build? Also, it's cold there. I don't know. It said that they had HBO at the motel. They got that onto the sign. They got a bunch of Harry Potter mentions and HBO on the sign. Great. Synergy. So, yeah. Will Earl make it? Will he make it to Rushville or will we be spending more time at the Jordan Mance? I don't know. Well, we'll all go back to space because that's where he's from, right? Oh. Maybe that. Mean green mother from outer space. Travis wrote in to say, Do we think carnivorous plants have toe beans? And if so, what color are Earl's toe beans? I just want to shout out the bad babies in Baltimore. There were multiple Vhagar slash Sunfire toe bean references. Signs, shirts, and toe bags. The way you guys make merch based on something that's not true. Something we said and even something we said like kind of recently is delightful and wonderful. All right. John and his bird get lantern napped. Where are we going? Where's my fucking bird? John says. First thought. Where's my bird? Man. He loves that bird and yeah. Anything you want to say that we haven't said about sort of like this fight? I just thought this was a great action sequence. You know, I was quite worried about the bird the whole time, which is obviously something we're supposed to be feeling. Of course, I'm also worried about John. I thought that the. So what this shows us, you already, you mentioned the, you know, how it heightens the immersion for Aaron Pierre to actually be doing this. We get to really stay on him. The fighting inside of the van and then the way that spills out into the street. This was just a really attention grabbing and compelling action sequence that had the emotion rooted inside of it. It also in a way that feels true to the intention of the show so far with how the comic. The elements have been deployed. It gave us some of that. Entwined with the grounded version of the thing. When the pursuers need half a step to reach the top of a car and then lurch forward. You just know you don't have to stop to think in the flow of the action without having to really linger on it. You understand that that is going to be an alien or superpower. For me, John gets like hit by a side swiped by a van. In a way that he seems like more fine for a human. Yeah. Yeah. Knocked out cold for a bit, but then fairly, pretty much okay after that. I don't know what Anton's crew, Anton and his crew, what their like CTE, you know, concussion protocol is right there. You mentioned Hal taking off the sling later and the fact that that, you know, sparked you to look into like the healing factor of the ring. There's also just the. Like, how tough do the guys need to front that they can be in any moment? Like, Hal just being like, well, I'm going to take this sling off and stand up and you, you know, things I don't. And I'm. Oh, performance. Yeah. Like, I'm not going to sit here infirmed in front of you. On that front, John, like running fearlessly into traffic. Yeah. You know, so on this idea of fearlessness, this is our listener, Ro, Rogue. Cool. Shout out, Rogue. Is it Indian Ever Ready? Who's to say? Wrote in to say, when hearing you guys talk about the quote, emotional absolutism, that the show. Indicating this first episode, it made me think about the father-son fear training scene. Do you guys think that the father shooting the apple off of John's head actually instills less teaches a lack of fear or just teaches John to perform a lack of fear so that he can receive physical acts of love from his father? Maybe so sad. I suspect we'll find out. Yeah. Really sad. James Haas EP inside the episode said there was an almost religious serenity to John because of his. Marine training, which I thought was really interesting. It's just like watching him just like, again, run into traffic and just being like, focus. He's got the bag. He's got the suit. He's got the lantern. And he's after his bird, you know, and he's going to escape. He's not going to escape. But like, you know. Yeah. The duffel reaching, going in the other direction just for a few paces, but to grab the duffel was a good bit of shorthand for like, there's a practical, I am in peril and I will fight to survive. But also this is a mission. Yeah. The task oriented nature of the pursuit there. All right. Carrie and Hal team up. It's your dream come true. What do you want to say about this? Her pulling him over and what happens next? Is this about me not being on the insurance? Hysterical. Absolutely hysterical. You shushed me. You're killing me. Oh, my God. I was going to tell me you shushed me. Boy. You know, I'd like to see these two fuck at some point. I don't mind saying it. Your marriage is unsmooth. Your marriage is. You mentioned the like kid like. Caught with a hand in the cookie jar. I've been found out quality to this. This was also a very boyish. You know, we're talking about the who is how allowing it to his life or not. But there is something very authentic here. Like he has a. There's a draw. There's a pull. There are some yearning tendrils here. Right. There's I've seen a lot of theories, which I think are deeply incorrect. Interesting. That Hal and Carrie have like a history of some kind. I feel like there's no. I think it's just based on. In some lines in episode one, when she's like, I can't do this again. And what she means is like, explain why the lanterns don't have jurisdiction here to John. Yeah. But I think some people interpreted that as like, I can't do this with Hal again, who I have a history. I mean, she has to like tell him she's from Gotham. Like they don't know each other. Yeah. Yeah. They decide to go to the compound. It goes great. Carrie has to do the talking. Hal grudgingly agrees. But then surprise. As soon as they meet Ben. Ailey Ben. Ailey Ben. Ailey Ben. Ailey Ben killed me. You're the best. Ailey Ben. At the gate. How does he happen? He does what he wants. He'll say. But just the like, let me do the talking. You know, just not understood. Hal Jordan made me into being bossed around just for a minute. What do you think? Yes. I think so. Then he says Calvary. He says Calvary. Cavalry. Wow. I can't say that word very well. He says Cavalry just in the nick of time. And then Cavalry is a lot. Faster in the movies. Hysterical. Is a great punch up in a script. Just really funny. Just hysterical. Really, really funny. And Megan Seder rides up and says shit like, and yet you linger. Very like, very Gary Dillahunt Deadwood. And yet you linger. You know? Of course, famously in Deadwood more than once. Yes. Double Dillahunt in Deadwood. Double Dillahunt. He's delightful so far in this role. No surprise, obviously. Yeah. You know, I said last week that the Megan ranch stretch was the most kind of shared and coded. Tufts ride up on their horses while you're a foot and they're a horse. Oh, a foot. Just, just, just wonderful. And Megan, and this is another character now in a different way because he's not a lantern, but we can ask this question. He talks about his reverence for the lanterns. You know, you know, I'm, I'm a fan of your work. I'm a fan of your work. Yeah. He, at least it seems this way, isn't intimidated for a second by Hal Jordan in this scene. Not a second. Do you think he knows that the ring is out of juice? I guess he has cameras around that saw Hal fall out of the sky. It's possible that there's some actual, yeah, CCTV and monitoring. That seems plausible, right? He's got these detectors all over town. Hal's question is just what other tech is there? Yeah. His tech is so advanced that even if Hal did create a ring, he's not going to be able to create a green bubble around him or something like that. He'd be like, I think that's in play. There's also just the fact that Waylon at the interrogation scene last episode was like, okay, but like, how much charge do you have left? That Megan certainly, a scholar, student of history, studied the past, would know. He's read the transcript. Yeah. That Hal is maybe not powered up. But then also just the fact that he has the backing of this mysterious benefactor that is just so fun for Theory Corner. Yeah. He has a reason that he doesn't think he needs to be afraid of the lanterns. Hal says, oh, boy, am I about to be threatened. So good. But my favorite Hal line here was, I don't want to disparage your small little town. Really good. Really, really good. Megan Senior once again mentions the settlers colonizing the natives. And as we explore these themes of, like, fear and security, because later when Zoe's talking to John in the diner, she mentions this idea of security. It feels safe to be around someone like that. like Macon Senior or something like that. Right. Especially the way that this show is hoping to reflect the America we live in, perhaps especially in 2016 or not. Should we talk about this idea of fear-mongering around immigration and what freedoms people are willing to give up in order to feel, quote-unquote, safe? Yeah, I mean, we talked about this a bit last week with the conversation that they had when Macon was grilling and the way that he is trying to seek common ground with Hal through that framing. But so, like, Macon Sr. feeling fear around sort of being colonized, if he's thinking galactically colonized, something like that, and who has put that seed of fear inside of him. But also him repeating that line any chance he gets as part of pushing that agenda for the whole town. You should be afraid of this alien threat, and I, at the Macon Ranch, have special tech, so don't you really feel like… Sure. …you should be afraid of this alien threat, and I, at the Macon Ranch, have special tech, so don't you really feel like… You should just let me run, tell you what to do, because I can make you safe if you give your freedom up to me. Yeah, which is harrowing, of course. And then we have Carrie a couple times in this episode. You know the thing that Carrie says to Hal about when you do things like this, it just reinforces the idea that he's the real seed of power. And that's obviously something that the show, through a couple episodes, has trained us to think is bad. And doesn't even need to train us to think is bad, because we hear him say things like what you're identifying, and you're like, no, no, no, no, no, right? Yeah. So there's that. There's the, like, just the question of, like, so when Hal is talking about the technology, right, I'm in a small, small little town. I don't think I've ever seen technology quite this sophisticated, so there's, like, the question of just what depth of… He's been to space. Yeah, right. We see him go to a space jail later, and he's like, what's all this? Exactly. So there's a scope and scale to what is happening here that is intriguing. But then another thing. You know, directly invoking the word insurrection, right? Like, I was going to try to, like, it's insurrecting in this town. I think it's very purposeful language on the show's behalf to frame it through that lens of modern-day political fear-mongering. No question. No question. Just like there's no question that Hal is a fan of movies, because obviously we got the Potter stuff with Waylon last week, and then he says, here, tell me the truth. Is he even real, the benefactor? Or is this some Kaiser-Sose situation? Great stuff from Hal. Yeah. No deep cuts. These are the hits. The play of the hits. Yeah, he likes to do this. He's a busy man, you know, so. He does do… And again, I'm not inside the writer's room, so I don't know exactly who pitched this particular note, but the idea to call out specifically the Marlboro Man, that feels Linda Laffey to me, but I could be wrong. But this idea that Wayne McLaren… Several Marlboro men, I think, died of lung cancer, but specifically Wayne McLaren. And when he got diagnosed with lung cancer, like, went on a campaign of education about the dangers of smoking. So when he says this thing about signing an NDA, and he's like, even the Marlboro Man, you know, like, told the truth. When push comes to shove, NDA be damned. So I thought that was a really great interaction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Castle Doctrine, which is something that I learned about this year between Widow's Bay and Cape Fear, it keeps coming up. This idea of, like, stand your ground is one thing, but Castle Doctrine is another. And it's just sort of like when he's like, he shot me. And Carrie's like, yeah, you were on his property. And in real time in that scene when Hal's like, you can't do that. Can you do that? Yeah, he can do that. Yeah, it seems unneighborly. Amazing. Also, you know, on the sniper front, obviously it sets up the exchange with Hal and John later, right? Oh, yeah, it says, you know, like a sniper, like one of your snipers doing… Oh, John knows exactly what it is, exactly what the move is. You're a fan of his work. The fact that, like, I like the discussion that we just had identifying the possibility that Macon knows the ring could not be activated there. And so then that maybe makes what I'm about to say moot. But, like, it kind of felt to me like even if he didn't know that about the ring, he felt that he had the edge. And they kind of do get the jump on Hal. Like the timing, Hal couldn't even pretend to… He gets half the sentence out. He couldn't even… Finish the cosplay theater of I'm going to just make a shield and block this shot before he's… They call his bluff. Yeah, pierced cold. So, I don't know, Macon's level, the assured way in which Macon navigated that encounter was very, very telling. All right, of Manhunters and Red Lanterns, question mark? Intriguing. Okay. I already mentioned sort of, like, how well I thought this scene was executed in terms of, like, the lore dump with all of the distractions. Like, there's the device, there's the bird, but there's also the fun, though I think not as funny as I think the show thinks it is, device of Anton's slippery grass with the English language. That didn't land super well for me in this scene either, but mostly because I think of… Not as a concept that isn't working, but because, like, I, you know, the… I see human isn't your first language. Yeah. Like, I liked that and I liked the idea of this, but I'm just kind of like, I don't know, like, proximity actually does make sense in that context, I think. Yeah. Like, it wasn't quite working for me. It wasn't quite, yeah. But I'm willing to see if it works better in other episodes. This is where John finds out how impressive the bird creation is. Yes. And I'm… This will drive a wedge between John and Hal. This is, like, the… Almost the angriest. We see John at Hal being like, surely you would have given me at least a hoorah. Like, his absolute boiling resentment at Hal not giving him his flowers when he deserves it or whatever. For a job well done. Was that something that Anton, like, intentionally planted to drive a wedge? Or was he just sort of like… Because he was asking questions. I feel like he didn't know. But, like… Yes. Was this an intentional wedge driven or just sort of like, I'm just asking questions? Right. Because he initially is like, how does Hal continue to project it from such a great distance? He's not projecting it. I am. You're not wearing a ring! Yeah. The shock of it. Yeah. It's interesting. Manhunter Exposition. You think the Green Lanterns came first since… I really don't know. …synthetic and take the form of any species and embed undetected… Uh-oh. Dun, dun, dun! He says… Anton says, we don't know where the Manhunters came from. Comic readers do. We'll talk about this a little bit more in the comic section. We sort of debated whether or not we should talk about this here, but we were like, listen… Out of an abundance of caution. The characters don't know, so we feel like maybe we shouldn't talk about it. Do you want to do leading Manhunter theories here, given what Anton shares or later? Um, do you want to do it here? I mean, it just feels like everyone in the Makin family is the leading contender at this point, right? And the show is making Makin proper such an obvious candidate, like with the Sosay situation. We got so many emails about Zoe that that seems to be the number one guess from listeners. Yeah, I think most people watching the show were like, Makin's too obvious. Yeah. Even Carrie is, like, too obvious. I think Zoe… I think there are a number of times… Like, if the… If the benefactor and the Manhunter are the same person… Right, right. He was used for benefactor and he was used for Manhunter in a way that makes me feel like that's a misdirect off of a female character. So I would take… I would take Sheriff Carrie. Yeah, sure. But Zoe seems to be the number one. And the way that Zoe shows up at the coffee shop and is like, oh, small town, bound to happen. Small town. Right? Want to go back to the truck? I think Billy. Hmm. Also a contender. And young Noah. Oh, yeah. Like, the whole family. That would be really fun. The whole family. Everybody in that family unit. Well, and what you were identifying last week about, like, what exactly are the relationships between these people? Like, how did Carrie and Billy become married? I know the answer to this. Can a Manhunter make another Manhunter? Yes. So, like, are Billy and Noah? I think so. Yeah. Like, made. You know? And if so, will the Manhunters get an endorsement deal with Aviator Nation? That's a great question. You're always asking the right question. Could be the high school football coach. Could be the judge. It's got to be someone we've met already. It just has to be. Yeah, but I just feel like the judge and the high school football coach have not. Too minor so far. Yeah. Yeah. We would need a little bit more. Militia Ben? Oh, Ben. Ailey Ben. Could be Ben. Ailey Ben. All right. Oh, God. Our listener Jordan says, again, we'll address this a little bit more in Comic Reader Corner, but Jordan says, if anyone wants to know a bit more about Manhunters, the fourth and fifth episodes of Justice League cover it pretty well. And if someone wants to know more about Lanterns and how Jordan, Green Lantern, the animated series, is one of the greatest one-season shows of all time, 26 episodes of pure willpower and heart. So a nice endorsement from Jordan. No free ads, but an ad from Jordan for these shows. Okay. We already mentioned that have you ever been deceived by someone you love and John indicating he has, and I'm just excited to find out about that. And just the quiet, not that he would go into a long, detailed story with his captor, but like, yeah. Yeah. Just the, there's a heaviness behind the quiet, the quiet, yeah, there. I can't wait to learn more. Anton is a show original character, but there is a character in the comics. I've seen it pronounced a couple different ways. I would pronounce it atrocitous. Hell yeah. That's what I would say. I've seen it atrocitous, but I think it's atrocitous. Atrocity. Can that be my new nickname? Atrocitus. Mallory Atrocitus Rubin. Yeah. Instead of saying calamity, should I start saying atrocity? Yeah, sure. Okay. Let's give it a try. See how it feels. Of course. In the comics, Atrocitus, who after the decimation of his people by Manhunter, forms the Red Lantern Corps. Dun, dun, dun. Lanterns. Red Lantern Corps. Or something to think about. Okay. I'm intrigued. Jon Stewart gets. Well, also, like, what color was the. You were about to talk about the. It was orange. Was it orange? Was it yellow? It could have been yellow and red together to make orange, but it was orangey. A little fear, a little anger. Yeah, a little fear, a little anger. It did look orange. But it is fun because it definitely looked orange. But it's fun because it's Lanterns. Be like, is it actually yellow? Is it actually red? It was orange. Jon Stewart gets Bix Killeen. I wrote down Bix, of course, and then also now because it's Odyssey Summer, wrote down Odysseus. You know, the siren song. We don't hear it. We don't see it. We are just conveyed. It is the torment of what is happening is conveyed on the face. It's for sure Bix. Bixier in terms of, like, come enjoy this genocide in your ears. It's going to make every orifice on your face leak because it's just a complete torment. His eyes are rolled back. He looks devastated. Deeply troubling. This is, of course, the most broken we've seen, the very stalwart Jon Stewart. And what will the lasting impact of this experience. Because there's the practical, like, you've got the 48 hours looking for the Manhunter, learning about the Manhunters. But what is now literally embedded into his brain, someone else's trauma that Jon is carrying. Yeah, the stamp imprint language. But are there any sort of, like, Manchurian candidate, like, I can activate you sort of thing? I mean, it's scary to think about. They drilled something into his brain, right? So, like, that feels like something we should consider. The effects of our collective loss will remain with you for some time. Not ideal. So, fun fact, Manhunters can be killed as humans in their human form. Good to know. This is something that prompted our listener, Nita, to write in and say. Because they made a big deal about the vulnerability of the Manhunter while in human form, as well as the Manhunter's ability to be anyone, this makes me wonder if the Hal Jordan with the bullet in his head at the end of pilot is going to turn out to be the Manhunter having taken Hal's form. And then is Hal just, like, on vacation with Earl? He's still in that rumpled bed. He's still in that rumpled bed waiting for you, Allie. With me. That's where Hal is. We're together. Waiting for you. There's a second nightstand now. I was about to say, you're, like. It's full of all sorts of things, folks. I would say aim high. If you're going to start in this relationship with Hal, please demand your own stacked milk crates. We need some drawers. Yeah, for all your devices. We need some drawers in our nightstands. Sheriff Kerry. Or maybe we don't! If he still has the ring. What can't a lantern make? Wow. The mind is racing. Something for Sheriff Kerry to think about. Sheriff Kerry's very wary. Hal wakes up and Kerry wastes very little time. What's with Sinestro? Let me say this about you. Week over week, you've gone from, I don't like Sheriff Kerry, to really leaning in. In the section headers. It's helping me. I really don't like it. So I'm just trying to, like, accept it. Oh, man. Yeah. Hal is immediately hackles up about this, but apparently he's so Sinestro preoccupied. He was saying his name in his sleep. Can Sinestro invade his mind while he's dreaming? Something to think about. I don't know. I like. That would be upsetting. I like the idea that Hal, who is Mr. Once you've lost a parent, there's nothing to fear. I don't need anyone. Give him a little. Shoot him in the shoulder. Give him a little anesthesia. Maybe those details led to this. Maybe it's just give him a few hours of sleep. He's calling out your name. Mallory. Mallory. Yes, Hal. You know, the idea that the fears surface in the night, right? That he is not able to fend off, to keep at bay, to suppress and repress these horrible things, that he actually shouts them out when he doesn't have that suppressing element of consciousness in an awaking state. You know what I really wish? They had had one of those classic. I forget. I feel like I'm quoting something directly. But if she had been like, do you usually talk in his sleep? And he would have been like, it's been a while since anyone's been in a position to tell me, you know, one of those moments. That would have been wonderful. Actually, though, it did actually. It did make me think like, oh, maybe someone hasn't told him that since whatever happened with Sinestro, right? Like, he hasn't fallen asleep in front of anyone. He doesn't do sleepovers. Yeah, he's a fucking go guy. No, like, not fucking go. Come here. Fuck. Get out. Sheriff Kerry pulls up the D.C. fandom wiki for a sprightly bit of exposition. She says, Sinestro, he was a lantern, attempted a coup, killed one of the bosses. You were the one who took him down. And Hal says, I don't talk about that. Again, from a screenwriting point of view, a screenwriting exposition point of view, this makes us want to know. This is something that Aaron Sorkin does a lot, which is he hides exposition inside of conflict. People are like at odds with each other about something. And so they're sort of like yelling information at each other in a way that helps us learn about it. And so for her to be like, tell me about Sinestro. He's like, no, you don't get to have this information. Then she's like, too bad. I know how to read the Internet. Here's the information. Then we are eager to hear the information that Hal wants to keep hidden. Yeah. And also to like the thing we were discussing earlier about the public life being in the public eye, this idea that this thing that Hal doesn't want to have to acknowledge and face and think about, let alone discuss with a relative stranger who he definitely wants to fuck. But like all she has to do is Google it once. And there it is. The affairs of his life that may be his version of like, you know, the have you been deceived by someone you love? Yeah. This deep wound is something that everybody else is just like a tweet away from learning about, even though he wants to keep it private. It's a very vulnerable position to be in. Very tough. All right. You already mentioned Thomas William Osborne, something I had to Google, but I did Google. I really love that you're going with Thomas William. Great stuff. You know, is that wrong? No, it's just Tom Osborne. Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he, yeah, one of the best coaches in college football history. I wonder how many Nebraska Cornhuskers football nuggets will be sprinkled in here. He's also a congressman, right? A congressman, right? A Republican Sioux. Yeah, representative. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. We already talked about this idea that Kerry was like, you're undermining my authority. He seems like genuinely, like actually genuinely contrite about it. Uncharacteristically. Different version of, but like we were saying, it's important to show us he's competent. Yeah. It's important. Hal's a dick. But he can't be a dick. You know, like there's a difference. He has to actually feel like there has to be a real genuine recognition and acknowledgement that that's a shitty way to make her feel. And that him coming in with his bravado and undermining everything she's worked years to establish is kind of fucked up. Yeah. Will he continue to behave that way? I don't know. We'll find out. But like the fact that in real time, he's like, that's not cool. You're right. I'm sorry. Important. Yeah. I wouldn't, I wouldn't bank on him behaving that way all the time, but sometimes he'll have his moments. He's the only patient there. She says she's from Gotham. Moved there on a whim. He says sounds like a story. Yes. So is that, that's a Gotham accent that she's doing? Is that what that is? I mean, it's not. It's not. It's not. Her last name is Kane. There are famous Kanes from Gotham. Kate Kane. Something like that. We also heard her on the phone last week say, say hi to Babs for me. That's right. So was she speaking to Jim Gordon? That would be great. Love that. Where are all the patients? Half the equipment looks like it was just taken out of the crate. What goes on here? We've read this sci-fi novel before. There's a couple versions of this sci-fi novel. Childhood's End is one that I was thinking about. Arthur C. Clarke. Oh yeah, sure. But yeah, aliens come and they, and everything's great. Nobody, nobody gets hurt. Nobody ages. Right. Nobody, whatever. Everyone's healthy. At what cost? At what cost? At what cost? At what price? For what reason? And again, this scene, this later scene was part of why then thinking back to that town hall meeting, I'm like, well, what, is everyone just like, this is life and they have no level of awareness and only the Makins have some level of awareness and everyone else is just like, get the lanterns out of here. So they stopped like kind of interfering with the daily flow of our life. Or are people in Rushville like, we don't need to go to the hospital apparently. No one, the stuff is in plastic, crap. They're not asking questions because it doesn't. Like serve them to ask questions. Yeah, right. And then, you know, frankly, like last episode of this show, when John was assessing the scene at the shooting, one of the things he said was like, and it's Nebraska, so like everyone's carrying. So then when Carrie in this sequence with Hal is like, well, they're all smart enough not to get shot. And obviously there's just, you know, some ribbing going on there, but it's kind of like. No, actually, that's not this town and the flow of life in this town. So that's all interesting. I thought the, while Hal, before he was signing out and there was no one else on the sign out sheet, when he was still in bed, the little, like, they both have a version of the, can I ask you something? Right. And, you know, he's got the, it does make a guy wonder. She spins it back with, it does make a girl wonder. Delightful flirting. Just wonderful stuff. But, you know, why did you fight me on jurisdiction? If you knew that. They were aliens. There's that. The, this is when she provides that I didn't want Billy's dad insurrecting the shit out of everyone and getting them all paranoid about invasion. But like in order to be able to do that, what level of paranoia has already been fostered to your point from earlier? It makes me, because we're on Manhunter watch now. So it's like on the theory corner front, what, what is the Manhunter's plan to use the William Macon. to run the militia as defense? But also rally the troops of the town to fend off any aliens who are seeking to find the Manhunter? Is it just hiding? Right. Or is there, like, a plotting? Is it just concealment or is there, like, a defense? Right, are you defense or offense? Or is it a building and offense? Exactly. Yeah. And that's something you say in football. Look at you. Okay. Look at you. Trust is running very thin in Russian Nebraska. Which I wrote before I knew what the title of this episode was. There's hail but very little trust. Um, hail in. There's hail in. And it sounds just like alien. Alien. Okay. John just happens to run into Zoe when he gets back into town to clarify that she's not in an open marriage. Wait, did she clarify that? Was that your. She says, you've met my husband. Yeah. Yeah. But he seems traditional. Oh, but then she's like, and when I need a break, I go take it. So that made me think it is an open marriage and that they have an understanding that, like, that they're. She's like, I do love my husband. That makes much sense. And I have a life. But, like, if we have an understanding that when I want to go fuck other people, I will. Okay. So what she says, he says, I mean, is your relationship unconventional? She says, you've met my husband, right? And he says, mm-hmm. And she says, mm-hmm, yeah, what do you think? And he says, respectfully, I think he's pretty fucking weird. Yeah, that he is deeply so. Yeah, I think he's pretty fucking weird, but you're not. And so, yes, to your point, I don't know. Garrett Dillahun is just playing such a, like, Macon senior of the Macon ranch and I make my ribs and, like, what about that guy reads as I'm in an open marriage with my wife? The fact that he knows she's fucking other people. But, like, and is he okay with it or does he just have to do what she wants to do because she gets to do what she wants to do? I think there, it seems to me that their understanding is that she can have sex with other people. That doesn't mean he likes that or is happy about it, right? I think that's fair and I think that makes sense, but I also think Have You Met My Husband feels real like he's a traditional Sure. Yeah. Marble man kind of guy. No question. Okay. She tries to bond with John as one of just a few non-white people in Rushville, right? Yes. White men with money, they can do whatever the fuck they want, play cowboy, build castles. She says she likes the security that he can provide. I also like that he could He could have brought some blonde bimbo from Texas to be his arm candy, but he wanted me. Yeah. No, I'm with my husband because I love him. I know he loves me. Hey, how's your white man? How's your white man? Incredible. Really good stuff. Incredible. He sent me to fetch his things. Again, that sort of racially coded language here. Man. And then you already mentioned this. You have to ask a question. You already know the answer. That, to me, feels like a deliberate wedge driven between John and Hal. Yes. So he drives John back to the motel where Hal is wearing a sling he won't need, in just a second. And he just says, nope, don't, to fend off any questions, any comments about Zoe. Though he does, he says, your girlfriend. He finds his way to make his comments. Your girlfriend's husband. Yeah, but I just like that he says, nope, don't, you know, like, I don't hear it. Let's not even start here. Let's talk about the code. Okay. Powers of the Ring. He mutters. He races through and mutters the code. So as a follow-up to our, our conversation last week about what the, what Wailing the Alien, you know, reciting the code, why he got so agitated about it. Yes. How does his, the way he recites the code here, in, like, inform your interpretation of that? I think just like the discussion we had last week, it still feels kind of open to interpretation. I think I have my read on it, but I'm like, willing and waiting to see exactly where, where it goes. I think it felt very interesting that it's immediately on the, so John, you know, tosses Hal the duffel, the lantern's in there, but Hal discovers his suit and he's like, I told you not to bring this. And then John says, yeah, well, maybe I couldn't bring myself to disrespect it. Right on the heels of that. Immediately on the heels of that. Hal has to push the ring into the lantern to power up. And it felt to me like the speed with which he did it, right, hurrying through this, this kind of holy ritual, this sacred thing. Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. The whispered, you could interpret it as him being almost like Mr. Now I'm in the era of like cowboy boots and jeans and I don't need to wear the tie because I'm not trying to impress anyone. Almost like embarrassed by it a little bit by having to do it in front of someone. Or as it being still despite his evolving over time and altered relationship with what it means to be a lantern. The thing, so John's saying that thing about the suit is right before it. The thing that's right after this is him going to see Sinestro. So those are like the bookends, the sandwich of this moment. Complicated relationships. Well, who trained him to be a lantern? What happened to that person? Right? So like obviously just massive lanterns lore in terms of Sinestro and their relationship. I think there's this like this is still a holy thing but I have a complicated relationship to it and also it's not something that it's private. It's a private thing, my relationship to this. Yeah. I don't know. I can see that. I really can. I agree with you. I can see it both ways. I think I'm leaning for some reason in like it doesn't, he's embarrassed that he has to say it because he doesn't really believe it anymore but it's a, a means to an end and it gets the juice in the ring that he needs. Yeah. And then the question is will his journey be rediscovering the meaning of that? Yeah. Like a deeper connection to that if this is the place that he is or no. Like is it too late? Is the journey just a further descent into like not feeling connected to that oath anymore? And then if the oath is something that you feel a distance from that wedge but it's necessary constantly for you to say it, for you to think about it, for you to be reminded of not only what it's supposed to represent and mean but maybe what it did actually once mean to you, Hal Jordan, and you don't feel it anymore, then that's a kind of gnarly space to be in. So I, I, I think that that, to me actually these are not either ors. They're the same because it's like if it was a sacred holy thing and now it isn't, or that has been like compromised and befouled in some way, wouldn't the fact that you once felt that way about it make that an even more dangerous and difficult place to be and like space to inhabit? Interesting. I mean, we've talked about a lot of this already in terms of their back and forth. Did the Guardians hide a Manhunter in Nebraska? Right. must have brought him here and the Manhunter killed him. Is that what happened? So what, what Anton said is that, was the Lantern took the monster into his custody and guaranteed he'd be executed. Why? I do not know. So that's where Hal goes. Is it that? Is it that? Is this the connection? But he's just like, Hal's just so certain what happened. Because he's been, as we understand it from the premiere, spending decades trying to figure out why did Abin sort of crash here in the first place? Like why here when we're this backwater that the Lantern and Korra and the Guardians, we weren't on the map. We weren't on the plan. Yeah. So like, maybe that possibility helps fill in the blank that he's been trying to fill in. I don't mind it as a possibility as a theory. I feel like he says it with like more certainty than I like to hold my theories. I agree. And then the question is like, well, okay, if it's not that, was Sinestro involved in some way? Was Abin, sir, did he crash on Earth because he was pursuing whoever? Right. Took, maybe it wasn't him, but he was after whoever did this thing? So something that Chris Mundy said on the official podcast using a, a phrase I learned from you, which is coaching tree, was, so I feel like I can say this outside the spoiler section, is that Abin, sir, trains Sinestro. Sinestro trains Hal Jordan. Hal Jordan trains Jon Stewart. So that's the sort of like mentor-mentee chain that has existed over time. Yes. When Jon, when, when Hal looks so fearful about Jon reporting the Manhunter to the Guardians, that's how I chose to interpret that. Like, have you told the Guardians about this? Right. That seems to me to be another fear response. I don't know. I'm just thinking, I'm just thinking about Jon Broome writing Hal Jordan in the 1960s while also trying to unionize and how he felt like a threat to the authority. Like, his, that, that comic creator's relationship with authority at DC and how he was this sort of like, to a certain degree, persona non grata rabble rouser inside of this authoritative system that he worked inside of. And I'm just sort of like, and also, tried to unionize, tried to get the other like, writers and artists along with him and then like, they got offered like, a smidge more money and abandoned him. And so just sort of like, Hal's relationship with the Guardians, Hal's relationship with the other Lanterns, which is something you raised last week, just sort of like, where is this guy in the larger ecosystem of the Guardians and Lanterns? Well, and again, I think it's like, it's interesting what, through the lens of Hal's relationship to the Guardians and theirs to him, but also in terms of what Hal is worried about John's relationship to the Guardians being. Because that's a threat. Yeah. So it feels like it's all present there. I agree. All right, enter Sinestro. Yes. Hal puts a suit on, flies up into space. Again, looks a lot better in the darkest, darkest night. Space prison, Sinestro, all these funky camera angles as he walks through here. Hannibal Lecter vibes, Palpatine Mall vibes, David Lindelof said in an interview with Entertainment Weekly, Loki vibes, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Sinestro is Lucifer. Okay, so this is from that shelf dust post by Ritesh Babu talking about the religion. religiosity of the lantern uh dynamic he says oa which is where the guard oas is in essence heaven while the guardians are the gods with the green lanterns being the angels sinestro the eternal traitor is of course the devil or a miltonian lucifer yeah cast off in punishment to you guessed it queer word of a queer word of the antimatter universe aka hell it's why the green lantern ring in this era is a literal wishing ring it can do anything it can create life rewrite minds manifest storms of steel spheres you name it it can do it the imagination was the limit green lantern was a hero blessed with divine cosmic power which is also why his lamp was frequently referred to as a mystic lamp the whole enterprise was magical in nature a supernatural phenomenon swimming in religious subtext which is muy linda lafayette for sure at the end of the day here um hal in the comics invokes the name of the guardians as the way that people invoke the name of god or jesus he'll say great guardians you know sort of like as his exclamation but i was thinking about okay i was thinking about all that miltonian uh lucifer great uh loki uh great we love it hannibal lector they've all sort of referenced him as as a hannibal lector comp where's migs ben linus i mean ben linus and lost and the way in which literally our favorite the way in which john lock will like come back to him yes for answers and the way that ben has this resentment towards jacob and you know the the essential the the guardians of the island and the way in which like ben is always manipulating and working every angle and finding every weakness and just sort of exploiting it yeah and so just like the way that michael emerson is ben linus one of the we agree one of the greatest characters of all of all time in television asks questions and just plants seeds of doubt and fear inside you know and just gets out of uh captivity in prison constantly on that show yeah so to think about sinestro here yeah you know if one still existed it would be the second greatest threat that existed why don't you tell me about john stewart just an amazing i know for the episode incredible i'm so excited for this character this depiction of this character this archetype in general and and what he can do to our guy hal jordan who is how jordan is to you guys i'm so excited to see you to a certain degree kind of an antagonist in this show to our hero john stewart so to give our antagonist a deeper antagonist a charming charismatic one at that is incredibly exciting storytelling i also think that uh the folks over at a soca a show that we hope will be good in season two we'll find out yeah could learn something about face paint from this the pink shade is great looked great looked great kyle chandler to entertainment weekly the more and more we did it i found myself feeling more respect that mentor student thing because he gave me what i have like him or not there was almost like a father figure sitting in front of me daddy issues you love to see it all right anything else you want to say about this i don't think so human condition i can't wait for the song that closes out here oh yeah that was amazing sick needle drop at the end now i just i mean i this made me i'm glad this is a weekly show and not a binge to be clear but it did make me like oh my god like and and then the tease for episode three was just so good so i'm i'm i'm hyped man between anton zoe and sinestro i don't think i'm missing it but maybe i am on the wedge front on the wedge watch what wedge watch 2026 and who do i think will be best well if we go back to last week the phone call between john and his dad yeah right so there's that as well john's senior okay yep all right juniors and seniors all right what's happening next is something we're calling rapid fire theory and comics spoiler corner yes so and to be clear not comics that we know are going to have a direct bearing on the future no these are actually just a bunch of emails we got from listeners that i wanted to read and i just did not want to read yes to injure anyone who didn't want to listen to it so is that enough warning for you to leave if you don't want to hear it bye all right cara wrote this before we met anton in this episode right but cara said i have a strong suspicion that the war of quote vengeance the alien hal interrogates mentions refers to the red lantern corps the show is entitled green lanterns but simply lanterns if red lanterns are the aliens shooting each other at the high school football game this ties to the manhunt and manhunter storyline teased in the weeks to come this explains how and why a random alien was able to bait jordan a guy who started a bar brawl without a hint of agitation and who just ratified a peace treaty into executing a stereotypical police procedural body slam into the two-way mirror infected with rage uh this also explains your sneering recitation of the green lantern oath in that moment the red lanterns exist following a genocide in sector 666 perpetrated by manhunters who were created by guardians a red lantern that's the other fact man manhunters made by the guardians yes a red lantern exists to oppose the guardians and knowledge of the guardians original sin might be the thing that makes making hal jordan the cynical jaded green lantern we meet in 2016 i mean maybe this feels completely possible oh absolutely i mean i definitely think that anton and his crew are red lanterns in the weeks ahead we have seen red light yeah sort of special effects stuff so i definitely think we're getting red lanterns up this season green light are we going to get yellow lantern stuff this season maybe it could be or finale sort of thing or something like that maybe that's like a season two focus right yeah i like it i liked it too okay um matt wrote in to say dc comics crossover event called millennium manhunters sentient space robots that used to work for the guardians and that the guardians found unfit and replaced with the lantern start activating sleeper agents on earth some of them wind up being close friends of key heroes and some of them had been on earth for a very long time and they're not going to be on earth for a very long time and batman number 415 for example batman discovers his friend commissioner gordon has been replaced by a manhunter when he decides to fight him and comically hearse himself trying to kick and punch a robot good times the idea of manhunters infiltrating earth has a long history they hate the guardians for replacing them hate the lanterns as their replacements and are skilled at blending in physically but often lack an ability to mimic human context and emotion classic robot problems email from that incredible so so could there be other hidden manhunters right everybody's talking about this one this one right what if there are more what if i mean god jeez we don't have a lot of other characters i was gonna say we i was quickly like trying to think of a single person we met who we already right yeah and we could i mean john senior let's go back and watch that 60 minutes footage again um okay so i think about all right brandon yes this is the parallax theory uh that i was reluctant to bring up in a non-spoiler setting okay something that makes hal jordan unique in comics canon i don't think it makes him unique but distinctive in comics canon is that he's one of the only a-list superheroes who has been a super villain in the emerald twilight arc hal's hometown coast city and all of its residents have been wiped out in a bombing crazed with grief hal used the ring to recreate coast city wandavision style yeah and all of its residents the guardians of the universe reprimand him for it as lanterns are apparently forbidden from using the power of the rings for personal gain like putting money in a jukebox perhaps i don't know and enraged hal takes off for the guardians planet oa intending to drain the main power battery so he can bring the coast city back for good various lanterns try to stop him along the way hal defeats each one takes their ring leaving them for dead eventually he kills sinestro and even his close friends kill a wog and enters the power battery to take his power when he emerges he's the villain parallax right the idea of tv hal going dark on backing up his consciousness maybe in order to hide something from his bosses made me think of this arc i'm also a huge tom king fan and one thing king has explored in most of his major stories omega man yeah mr miracle strange adventures supergirl woman of tomorrow superman up in the sky even batman is a character dealing with sustained trauma usually via devastating loss or being witnessed to or participating in some horrific event war genocide torture etc. the idea of hal going through a massive traumatic loss and coming out broken seems right up king's alley just a thought yeah he first uh the first episode made a big deal of hal proclaiming that the death of his father was the worst thing that could ever happen so after experiencing it he was left without fear part of hal's recreation of coast city was bringing back his long dead father compounding his traumas and parallax in lanterns lore eventually and this is where i think we're headed yeah parallax in lanterns lore eventually was retconned to be sort of a manifestation of a demon yeah that possessed hal in his weakness and made him break bad could be some interesting stuff in there to mine as far as repressing and denying fear and the ways it can come out anyway yeah so this idea of parallax as a demon almost like um the yellow king and legion just sort of like this thing that can live inside of and infect a hero and so when we watch kyle chandler's performance inside of this episode and other episodes and see those flashes of like fear on his face that he like tries to suppress or master or whatever it is like is that the demon that he's trying to suppress that is already inside of him growing and taking greater control of him or or is he just so ripe for that Vulnerable for infection. Yeah. So here's a question pacing-wise. What do you think is more likely, if this is the intention, to go in this direction, which would be, you know, quite interesting to watch? Yeah. Is that season two? Does that happen inside of season one? How Breaking Bad? Yeah, Breaking Bad. Yeah. I don't know. I would rather it be a season two because that means we get Kyle Chandler for more. I mean, yeah, same. Same. Sue us! Yeah, Breaking Bad. Because it's not a long, long season. It's not. We only have six episodes left already. Yeah. This was definitely the, and obviously after episode two, there's a lot of, okay, who's the Manhunter? Let's go through the contenders theorizing. This was, it felt like, the biggest after episode one theory on the internet. The parallax. Yeah. And I wanted to put it in the spoilers. You know, we were sort of discussing where to put it. And I kind of wanted to put it in the spoilers section just so that, like, people who don't want to know that, like, how does Break Bad don't have to know that. That's even possible here. Okay. So. So, all of that is interesting to me. Last but not least, Jean-Michel wrote in and said, in terms of whether or not Hal is actually dead. Yeah. Oh, oh, to go back. Okay, this is what I wanted to say before this. In terms of us asking in episode one, what happened to turn 2006 Hal Jordan into 2016 Hal Jordan in terms of, like, the hologram versus the Hal we meet in 2016. Yeah. Do we think the Sinestro? Do we think the Sinestro sort of, like, attempted coup happens between 2006 and 2016 and that is what, like, broke his heart and turned him into who he is? I think so. I'm still interested in the fact that hologram is not wearing the lantern suit and had already, like, shed the, like, I need to wear the tie. But he wasn't quite in this, like, that was a shiny leather jacket. It is a little different from the, like, the worker jacket that he's in here, the utility jacket. But, yes, it feels to me like something. It feels to me like maybe something about Sinestro's training and mentorship had changed something for Hal, right? Other events, whatever the case may be, various things in his life, lost loves, et cetera. And then the seismic Sinestro fall has happened more recently. He had to be the one to put his dad in jail. Yeah. His space dad in jail. Like, even his space dad who, like, Hal Jordan, someone who lost his real dad. And was, like, just susceptible to someone stepping in and being like, I'm your daddy now. I'm your pink daddy now or whatever. And then he has to put pink space daddy in jail. Yeah. And then every time he wants to go visit him, he has to voice activate the clearance so that everyone knows he's there to do this thing. Like, that felt purposeful, too, in that scene. And if space daddy is like, hey, the guardians, should they be in charge? Right. Right. Are they right? Just asking questions. Is Jacob right? Is Sinestro at some points? Does God exist? Let's get the Thanos was right mug, but for Sinestro. I mean, again, this is the, again, there are multiple creatives in the room here. Yeah. But the constant Damon Lindelof drum that he bangs across lost, Prometheus even, leftovers, Watchmen. Yeah. This is sort of like, is God out there? Does he care? Is he mad? Is he my dad? Like, all of these questions are constantly here. So, like, if the guardians, and to put this here in the spoiler section, which, I don't know, whatever, but Laura Linney is a guardian in the episode three preview, right? So, space mommy, you know? Like, mommy issues. Enter the chat. But, like, if, and she's doing this very, like, sort of, like, 1950s, like, Donna Reed kind of, like, as a symbol of, like, Sacker encoded authority. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, the idea of authority is really interesting to me. But if it's, like, space dad versus space mom, and who's right, and you put space dad in jail, but you don't trust space mom anymore, like. Complicated. Family. Would you say the conflict in the human heart is the only thing worth writing TV about? Maybe. It's the only thing worth making HBS Sunday Night TV about. This is exciting. Yeah, I'm excited. There's a lot of possibilities here. Anyway, this is Lantern. Season one, episode two. Anything else you want to say? I'm sad we're already down to just six episodes remaining. Sheesh. No, I think we did it. I'm really excited to think about Ben Linus always. Okay. Oh, my God. Who will say what about you to Sinestro? What about me? Oh, God. It's never been easy. All right. Thank you to Carlos Chiriboga, Scott Lee, Jacob Cornett, Arjun Arun Kapal, Jomie Adinaron, everyone, everywhere, all at once. The entire city of Baltimore. That's right. And to our favorite hometown hero, Mallory Rubin. Thank you to Joanna for coming home with me. The pride of Baltimore. The pride of the Orioles. Mallory Rubin. I can make baseball movie references. Oh, my God. We'll see you for Oppenheimer. That's right. Which we are recording at the crack of dawn tomorrow with another live event in between. But you will get it. We're going to get to consume in like two and a half days, I think. It'll be great. We're doing it. We're doing it. We'll see you soon. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.