Laney Crowell: The Knicks Opportunity Everyone Missed… How I Got My Beauty Brand Into The NBA! Saie CEO

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And with low prices on fresh quality food, plus digital and personalized offers tailored to how you shop, your dollar goes further. Redeem your points online or in the app. Kroger, fresh for everyone. Restrictions apply. See site or store for details. What made you want to partner with a male NBA team, the Knicks? I want to put lip gloss on for this. Yeah. Let's talk about it. Bring out the Birkin. I think it's just crazy that 40% of NBA fans are actually women and no one thought to target them. Lainey Crowell, you've built a multi-hundred million dollar brand. Safe. People always think I left Estee Lauder to start a brand and that is absolutely the farthest thing that didn't even occur to me that I could start a brand. Yeah. It was all about feeling really good in your skin and your best self. What was that moment that made you want to put yourself through this battlefield that is being a founder? I remember being rejected so many times that I was so tired I couldn't walk home at the end of the day. But there was a bodega that had a sparkling water that I really liked and that would be the thing that would get me home. You are such an iconic Estee Lauder vo girl. You're like, I have a sparkling water. I'd be having a cocktail after all spread. If you want to get big fast. My number one tip for people is have a really clear vision and just go for it and don't stop. Like, I knew that I wanted, say, to make a difference. Like, Nara Smith pulled it out to do her makeup in her car and all of a sudden they sold out in minutes. We had a waiting list of over a hundred thousand people. You've done such a phenomenal job building the cool it girl brand, but what is it that people actually don't see about Lainey? Hi, Angels. Did you know that subscribing to our channel is free? And it's the simplest way that you can support our show and help us grow. If you do this, we can bring you even more of the content and the guests that you love. All you have to do is just hit the subscribe button below. So please, if you wouldn't mind, subscribe to the channel and thank you. In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Lainey Crowell, are you ready to get hot, smart, rich? I'm so ready. For someone that just clicked into this, maybe they know you, maybe they don't. Yes. Can you just describe what mission you're on and a little bit about who you are? Yeah, I'm Lainey. I'm the founder and CEO of Say. We make clean, high-performance makeup that is good for you and for the planet. And I'm here for on so many missions. My number one goal is to make sure that I'm doing the right thing. My number one reason I started Say was to make makeup that is not only good for your skin, but even makes your skin better. I have very sensitive, very acne-prone skin. And when I realized that my makeup was breaking me out, it was a total aha moment. I was just like, I cannot believe I just spent money to ruin my skin. And when I learned that the beauty industry makes 129 billion units of plastic every single year, it just became my mission to change my skin. We often say that consumers vote with their dollars. Yep. What have you learned being in this space for so many years about how women actually spend money? Yeah. Let's talk about this. Because I am a really big consumer. I love to shop. Everyone knows this about me. I love to shop. Like, I don't have any very many vices, to your point. Like, I drink sparkling water instead of cocktails. But I love to shop. And I think that women are really influenced by friends. That is one thing that I can never get over. When I talk to people and I ask them how they discovered, say, like, you're going to think they're going to say TikTok. We have so many followers on TikTok. We've gone viral so many times. You think that's what people are going to say? No, it's always my friend or my mom told me about say. With brands that prioritize clean or things that are better for you, oftentimes, though, we find people who are not. And women are like, but the cheaper price is over here from being a brand that stands for a lot, but it's maybe more expensive. Do you find that given the option, people are still going to vote with their dollars towards price? Or are people starting to lean towards things that are like better for you, good for the environment? Do we vote with our dollars in that way? Well, it's interesting because we I've thought a lot about this because we invest so much in sustainability. It's always more expensive to go to sustainability, right? We are part of 1% for the planet. 1% of every single dollar that we make goes back towards the environment. So as a brand that spends a lot of money on sustainability, I do wonder, like, how does that affect our consumer? And I think we have a lot of consumers that really like that. And they think it's great. Do I think they buy say because of that? Absolutely not. I think they buy say or I know that they buy say because of our formulas, because if you're buying makeup, you want incredible makeup. So I first heard about say when you launched the vanity cases. Oh, OK. I guess I was maybe 30 at the time. So I wasn't maybe going into my friend's bathrooms the way that I was during college and seeing what they were using. Yeah. But I still remember this vanity case. It was so chic. And I had this like dumpy Amazon one and I really wanted to buy it. It was obviously sold out because this is, you know, the road phone case of cosmetics for sale. I think they sold out in a matter of like seconds, minutes, anytime we have them. Now they're in stock. Was this your road phone case moment? Yes, 100 percent. And we did not see it coming because we had a lilac vanity case that had been in stock and hadn't caught on. And then we launched it in brown and it was this beautiful luxe brown that we had spent a lot of time, you know, picking out. And it was. And it was gorgeous. It was part of a mailer for our slip tint concealer. And I think it was Nara Smith pulled it out in her car to do her makeup in her car. And I think that was the moment when all of a sudden everybody just started posting it and it wasn't for sale. We had not bought any to be for sale. We then were like, OK, let's get 10,000. And they sold out in minutes. We had a waiting list of over 100,000. People. So the brown cosmetic vanity case. Yes. And then we would launch. We launched these little minis that are so cute in different colors. And the same thing happened with those. OK, so let's talk about this for a second, because that's a risk, right? You're a makeup brand and you don't do sourcing, manufacturing for something that's a luxury tote, basically. Yes. How did you rationalize that decision? How did you take that risk? Well, we are buying small quantities like we until recently. We did not have it in stock and available for people. That was something that I wanted to do for my community because I just felt like it was kind of messed up that we were continuing to have this shortage. And I was just sick of the fact that we had so many people messaging us about it. And I was like, we are a brand built for our community. They're asking for this product. Let's give it to them. I think that the risk was honestly in the pricing. It was all like everything say, like we always put it at the sharpest price point that we can. And then when tariffs hit. Like that was, we didn't have enough room there. And that, that was what, if I could change one thing that would change that. If you could collab with one brand right now, who would it be and why? Um, I really love Calmeyer. I feel like. I feel so uncool. I don't know who that is. I feel like the Calmeyers, like the cool girl brand in New York right now. Okay. I'm going to look that up. We've done Daniela's show the last few times. And every time we do her show when I'm backstage, I'm like, I need every single one. thing in this collection. Let's talk about cool for a second, because I think you've done such a phenomenal job building like the cool it girl brand, but obviously with the product efficacy and the standards and morals and principles that your brand stands for as the infrastructure layer. Yeah. How do you educate women to come across as cool as you have with really trying to share with them why your product is superior to put on their skin? I mean, I think for us, it's always this balance between education and fun and cool and style and fashion. We talk about it. I've shared this before. We have a Monday morning meeting that is, there's no agenda. It's just about what are we seeing? What would resonate with us? What do we want to do more of? Where should we be showing up? Whatever. And then I had a huge aha moment when one of my friends told me they didn't know how to do their makeup. And I was like, well, what do you mean you don't know how to do your makeup? And they were like, no, I don't know anything. I don't know how to put on tinted moisturizer. I don't know where blush goes. I don't know what a lip liner is. The basic things that when you're in the beauty industry or you're an exclusive brand at Sephora, you take for granted because there's all these artistry brands around and you're like, oh, but you don't know how to put on tinted moisturizer. And that was what actually created what we call the clasp, I say. Which is our Beauty 101, where we just help people learn the basics of like, let's talk about our new lip liner shades. Like, how do you even put on lip liner? What is a lip combo? Like, just these really kind of basic things that, you know, we will show these kind of pro tips that completely change your makeup routine. When I've talked to people who have taken the class, they're like, it used to be a moment of anxiety for me every morning putting on makeup because I had no idea what I was going to do. And I was like, well, I don't know how to what I was doing. And then it turned into a moment of self-care. And so for us, like, we've continued and have like a big launch actually coming around the class where it's going to be digital, it's going to be in person, and we can just provide that education for people. It's so funny. I admit this all the time. I'm one of those people. Like, my 20s was just so focused on working and like moving myself from Canada and starting over. And I literally, my makeup artist canceled it, but I get my makeup done a lot. I got it done today. And I asked to do it on Saturday because I said, you know, if I'm like away, I need to be able to do my makeup and feel really confident about it. And I used to even do my eyeliner, like starting from up and going down. And she would message me and be like, babes, like, you got to go here because it's just looking really clumpy and going down. And I laugh because I don't think people would expect that from me. But I just saw this TikTok that was like, being hot is a hobby. Like being able to understand your facial feature and like what's going to accentuate you. And I guess for people that feel lost and TikTok watching a specific video being done, like how can they understand what's best for them? Is it just going to a Sephora and talking to a, say, representative to know like how they should actually do their own makeup? I mean, I would say you should join one of our Zooms where you can ask questions. And we have pro makeup artists that are literally there to teach you every single week how to do your makeup. Just a shout out to that whole program that we have because it's quite extensive and something that we put so much resource behind. I think that I have learned a lot from social, just watching the videos that are right for me, not the ones that are not right for me. I learned how to do makeup at the counter at Macy's and that doesn't really exist anymore, which is tough. Can we please talk about what was in you that made you want to partner with a male NBA basketball team, the Knicks? Sure. Okay. Where did that inspiration come from first? Let me just tell you the whole story. Because it's a really good story. Because I did not sit around with my team saying, you know what we should do? No. Or we didn't get pitched. It was completely the opposite. It was totally organic. I went into the city with my husband and my two kids to go see a game. It was the first game I had ever been to. And I was in Madison Square Garden and we were working on City Set, which is our 16-hour setting spray. It's completely game-changing. It's the first clean setting spray with no synthetic polymers that sets your makeup for 16 hours. It's insane. And we didn't have a name for it. And I was sitting there and I was looking around this stadium that is electric. And I was watching all the ads and it was really interesting because all of the screens flashing and the sponsors were all speaking to men. But there are so many women at Madison Square Garden and they all look incredible. They come to show up. They're girls out for a fun night. It is such a social spot. And there was not a single ad speaking to them. So that was like a little something that was in my mind. And then the Nick City Dancers came out. And I was like, City, City Set. And I pinged my team and I said, can you see if City Set is available for a trademark? That's all it was. It was just a name that I thought was cute. I loved the sound of it. I loved the alliteration. I loved the fact that when you're in a city, you are go, go, go. You need a setting spray and you need a daily one that's not going to be making you break out or irritating your skin. I'd happened to meet a girl that works at MSG at a New Year's Eve party like two weeks prior. So I texted her and I was like, any chance I can gift the Nick City Dancers? Then that turned into the huge partnership that you see today. Of us being like, wait a minute, we can be the only brand speaking to all of these women. The breakdown I think is 45, 55 of men to women at MSG for a game. There's Out of Home on 7th Avenue. We created this incredible experience for our community from a giveaway. There was an influencer who asked me for tickets. I don't know if you saw that. We gifted her and we did this vintage collection of jackets that we sourced from the 80s and 90s. We had a box for all of the editors one day. Experiential is just where it's at right now. People want experiences. It's why sports is exploding. It was a little bit ahead of the curve, but it just timing worked out perfectly because obviously the Knicks are on fire. The crowds in the street are crazy in New York right now. And our billboard is right there. I think it's just crazy in general that 40% of NBA fans are actually women and no one thought to target them. Not one ad. The closest was a moving company. Why do you think that sometimes the most obvious answers are the things that we skip over? We're all set in our ways. I think that I attribute that as we were talking about earlier, like my brain just works a little bit differently than people. That was so obvious to me. I couldn't believe it. And now I work with all these incredible women at MSG who are so excited to work together because we're the only sponsor that is interesting to them. Well, and I think if you think about it too, right, like the WAG industry in general, I don't think has infiltrated the NBA the way it has for NFL. Of course, I'm going to get a lot of hate for that, I'm sure. But like tennis, F1, NFL, this is crazy. But I even think down to the WAG culture, like now is your brain when you're starting to think about in real life, expanding the same brand, like how do you think about taking a series that works and then expanding it into a franchise? I mean, I've thought about it a lot because obviously like there are, I'm obsessed with women's sports. I think women's sports is like just so crucial for young girls, especially. And I don't know if you know this stat, but it's 98% of women in C-suite positions played sports. Like it is the only place where girls are taught to be aggressive, you know, have that. Go get them mentality where they don't have to be perfect and they can just be leaders. So I would love to do something with women's sports. I feel like it's just where it's at right now. When you were a little girl, what did beauty mean to you? And has that definition evolved to where you are today? Well, I remember getting in trouble for buying Allure magazine when I was nine. Amber Valetta was on the cover. It was like her, the cover was her full face. It was the sickest cover ever. But I just remember thinking that she was the most beautiful person I'd ever seen. And I wanted to know everything. I wanted to know the secrets. I wanted to know who she was. Like I just, I wanted in. I think it meant confidence. I think it was all about feeling really good in your skin and comfortable and your best self. And I think that's still what it means to me. There was definitely a period for me in my twenties when I was trying to fit in. And I feel like I had just come from the era of like Cameron Diaz and Lucy Liu and Drew all the Charlie's Angels. They were all so distinct in their beauty. And then I think there was a period of time where we got a little bit into this Instagram face and everyone kind of started to look the same. And that was my definition of beauty in my twenties, trying to like fit into that. And only recently in my thirties have I really fallen back in love with the idea of like my face shape and what makes me unique. And I've spent so much time on Claude, even like what's the best hair length for me for an all blonde face. And how do I accentuate my has your definition of beauty for yourself and what you see in the mirror evolved at all as we've gone through different. trends for beauty or has it always remained consistent? I mean, I did just see a picture of myself with very thin eyebrows and I cannot picture that now, but I honestly, my beauty routine has always been very consistent. I think there was a period when I was a senior in high school, freshman in college, where I was wearing more glam. And I remember a boy saying to me once he thought I was so pretty, but I was wearing too much makeup. And I was like, okay, noted, got it. Like, let's go back to the tried and true. I did live in Paris in middle school and that really informed my definition of beauty of like your skin first, easy and effortless, just that really cool girl, like not trying too hard. I think that's like the biggest thing for me is if you look like you're trying too hard. So you moved around a lot when you were a child. Which you sort of just mentioned. Yes. Can you describe how often you moved and then what you think that did in terms of approaching new situations? Because you were always a fish out of water. Everyone always says, what did your dad do? No, my mom was in the foreign service and she had this incredible job that took us all around the world. When I was five, she got in, which was a really big deal. Like very few women got accepted into the foreign service. And our first post was, Guangzhou, China. So my mom learned Chinese in six months and we moved as a family to Guangzhou, China. It was us and five families who worked at Nike and that was it for Americans in the entire city. And I mean, I was really young, but I was also the only kid in my grade. It was just me and the teacher. And I remember like we would go and visit the other classrooms. It makes me want to cry a little bit thinking about like poor little Lainey, like no friends. We moved back to D.C., new girl again. And it was a little bit easier when we were abroad because generally there were a lot of new kids. Like when we, after D.C., we were there for four years, we moved to Paris and I went to the bilingual school and the classroom was full of new kids there. And then after Paris, we moved to Northern California where my dad's family's from. I have a lot of women on the show who aren't quite at the level that you're at. You've built a multi-hundred million dollar brand. And one of the questions that I've been asked a lot is, how do you build a multi-hundred million dollar brand? And one of the questions that I've been asked is, how do you build a multi-hundred million dollar brand? And one of the questions they always ask me is like, I feel a little guilty right now that I'm putting a lot of my time into my business and building my business. And I'm maybe ignoring or I'm in a season of my life where my childhood friends or my college friends aren't my number one priority. And I'm so interested for you now, someone who's built multi-hundred million dollar brand, how do you think about female friendships? Are there seasons in your life where like it's okay to be a little bit more selfish? I mean, I think there's like those seasons for everything, right? Like I remember when I first started building a multi-hundred million dollar brand, I was like, I didn't talk to a friend, I think for years. And I remember it was Say and my kids. And that was it. There was nothing else in my life. And I remember kind of having this moment of like, oh, wow, like this is it right now. And then I remember like, say, getting bigger and more established. And, you know, we went from five people to 10 people to 20 to 40. And now we're at 80 plus people and yeah, I have time to go out to dinner with my friends and I have time to text people. You know, those little moments of time to reach out to friends, that doesn't happen when you're like at the very, for me, it didn't happen at the very beginning when I was building Say. But I will say that I have built an incredible community of founder friends and they just understand things a little bit differently of like you've disappeared for three months because you had a launch or you had something. And then you're back and it's fine. And everyone's like, oh yeah, totally. I get that. We really don't talk enough about how much is actually asked of women's bodies. 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Our refrigerated trucks keep your items fresh while our associates are committed to getting every detail right, carefully selecting and packing your order with care. Because bringing you fresh, quality groceries is what we do best. And right now, enjoy $20 off your first online order of $75. Kroger. Fresh for everyone. And just say, I don't know what I'm doing in this situation. I need help. My investor, Rachel Harris at Unilever Ventures. We went through COVID together. She was my first investor. And I launched, say, November 2019. And COVID hit March 2020. And I had just taken a million dollars, which at the time felt like a lot. I know people now are launching with more like $5 million to launch their brands. For me, I felt like I had taken so much money. And I had a huge responsibility on my back. And COVID hit. And obviously, none of us had been through a pandemic before, including Rachel. And we talked every single week and just navigated it from products being stuck on ships in the harbor and nobody there to unload them to the fact that I didn't see any of my employees. I mean, I built, say, from my bedroom for two years. Those first two years. 2019 happened. So we've already kind of gone through the girl boss era. Like, Emily Weiss is like in the headlines. I actually worked at a direct-to-consumer darling. So I kind of got my start in the US because I managed like an $18 million budget for marketing. I was in the head of marketing seat for a direct-to-consumer darling. And like, my goal was to be Emily Weiss. I thought she was the coolest, sexiest person ever. You guys have obviously a lot of parallels. She raised a million dollars to launch a brand. You raised a million dollars to launch. She started a blog. You started a blog. But like, you really prioritize building, say, the brand versus building your personal brand. Was that intentional? Or was that something that you always wanted to do, but it just like, you didn't have the bandwidth? Shout out to Emily for being, I think, an expander to so many women, showing them that they can do it. When I think a lot of us, myself included, like I did not think of myself as a founder. People always think I left Estee Lauder thinking that I was going to start a brand. And that's not true. I think I left Estee Lauder thinking that I was going to start a brand. And that is absolutely the farthest thing that I didn't even occur to me that I could start a brand. I did think about the fact that I did not want my name as part of the brand. Because if you ever sell your company, you then sell your name. And I'm not a makeup artist. I am just somebody who loves makeup. And, you know, I'm the ultimate consumer. So for me, I was building this brand for consumers and for the community. I did not have any time to do anything. I mean, I'm able to go on podcasts and able to do this stuff, which I love and is fun. But no, that's a more recent thing that I've had any bandwidth to even like post on Instagram. And I think the pressure has differed a lot, right? Like I think now being a founder-led brand is so important and people want to know who is behind, say, or behind any brand. Do you have certain boundaries of things that you're like, I won't talk about this, but I will absolutely talk about this, maybe not on the Say channel, but on Lainey's personal channel? I really see my channels as an extension of the brand. Like I see my channels as people getting to see a different view into the brand, to see that behind the scenes, to see, um, it was funny the other day, I was so sick and I had the craziest week of just back to back to back to back. And I was, I, I felt like I was going to fall over. I was so tired and exhausted and just not feeling good. And so I was like laying in bed with an IV in my arm, Chloe on my team who helps me, she came in and we were like laughing and we were like, that's what we should have filmed. This is, this is what is happening. Like this is you know really that like story behind how it all gets built I think is so interesting and I love telling it and I just see my channels as a way to continue to be a channel of audience awareness to storytelling a different and in more interesting ways sometimes I'm so interested when you're building like a luxury brand right like those moments of the IV in your arm or like wanting to pull your hair out because you're exhausted how often do you really experience moments like that because from the outside it doesn't obviously look like that the reason why you probably don't see more of that online is honestly because we move so fast as a company we call it say speed because when people get to say they're like what's happening and it's because we're just moving so fast like speed has been such a differentiator for us and such an important part of our success that like there's no way I could document everything that's happened in one week you said earlier that you didn't really think of yourself as a founder so you leave Estee Lauder yes what was that moment then that made you want to put yourself through this battlefield that is being a founder I was just so inspired by the community that I had built through the blog that I had started to have this conversation around beauty being better and what that meant and it was a really small niche community but like they were so mighty and they were so invested and they were like you are the person to launch us and here's exactly what it should look like and that's where the name of the brand comes from for if you didn't know that it's where say comes from it's from you say it we create it when I was starting say I just kept going back to the conversations that I would have with the community of like well they said this and they said that and I'm like oh say this is for this is for all of those people saying that they want clean makeup that really performs that is truly good for their skin that is at a nice price point so I really want to break this down because I think there's going to be a lot of people listening to this that have the idea maybe yeah did you feel though that that founder instinct inside of you was there but you just didn't think there was the opportunity or did you have to grow into knowing that you are the founder archetype I think I've always had entrepreneurial spirit and my parents were not entrepreneurs there was nobody around me my entire life that was like oh that's what this is or oh people start businesses like simple things like that that was not what my community of surrounding looked like I have never felt more like myself than I do now and I think that's because of the opportunity to be a founder you also did a very interesting thing to launch your brand which was go into mascara which is crazy I know let's break this down from a personality standpoint though like you're a founder you're a founder you're a founder you're a founder you're like did you take risks did you always go against the grain as a child or like did you see a white space in mascara and you were like this is the product or this is what my community is asking for the community asked for it it was the first product they wanted they wanted a super clean nourishing mascara that didn't fall under their eyes I had no idea that that was a product that you wouldn't normally launch with until I think my friend Celia at Vogue like asked me that in the launch interview she was like so nobody does this and I was like what nobody does this and I was like nobody does this but I think you said that you're dyslexic I don't know if you share that I do um I also am dyslexic and I think that that is part of one of our superpowers is that we don't see risk we don't really see some of those like risk opportunities that other people might be really obvious to them I don't really see them I say things all the time and my team will be like oh that's a big goal and I'm like is it I think we can do that no problem what's something from your past life of Estee Lauder or the blog or building on your past life what's something from all the companies that you had for other people that you didn't realize was a secret weapon when you were starting to build say but like really helped you at those beginning stages when I worked at Estee Lauder I was like a I don't want to say fish out of water it was more like a what's that saying like a round pig square hole yeah me and my ex-fiancee yeah so I realized when I left that that training was a big part of my life and I think that's what I've been doing for the last so major and just put me so far ahead of anybody else in the industry because I've been trained by the best of the best and there was these really like hair pulling out moments where I would have to do 25 decks to show that we should launch an Instagram when nobody even cared about Instagram and I would find it so frustrating because I like to move really quickly I'm a really quick decision maker and I had to prove my point and I had to prove it over and over again and I had to and that was exactly the skill I needed for fundraising okay let's talk about fundraising I was actually going to go into something that we're going to get into after but one thing I found fascinating listening to you on other shows with is that you said there was not an option to not raise money for say because you always wanted a big brand yes do you still believe that you can't build a big brand without venture capital today in beauty I mean look I was really clear on the vision for say when I launched and I think that's like my number one tip for people is like have a really clear vision for what it is that you're building have that north star for yourself for your brand and just go for it and don't stop and I knew that I wanted say to make a difference I wanted say to completely move the needle in terms of how people were formulating products how they were treating the environment the list goes on and so to be that size I knew I needed money for inventory I knew I needed money for marketing I knew I needed a team you know I think if you you know you're going to have a really clear vision for what it is that you're going to want to get big and get big fast which like you know product market fit and timing is so important I think having some funding is nice I think if you could get that from a loan even better well especially in today's market with dupe culture it's like you have to move quickly because people will be coming up you're you're behind obviously I'm a fan of venture capital I invest a lot into companies so I love it but I do think there's the other side of venture capital where there can be cons but I think if you could get that from a loan even better learning what you've learned over the roadmap of raising money yeah what would you highlight to people about some of the cons of raising venture capital I think you really want to understand equity and what that means and what you're giving away and for me that was something that took me a really long time to understand and I had already given away equity at that point when I fully grasped what I had given away not just in terms of venture but also in terms of employees and stock options and I'm a really generous person I'm always like I'm going to give away equity like yeah let's go whatever I just want to go and I wish I had taken a step back there and like really truly understood what I was doing in that moment venture capital is great because generally it's pretty hands-off so I think that that is wonderful and I think that it gives brands an opportunity to grow really quickly I think it gives opportunity to the people who are able to raise it I think a con of venture capital is that so little of it is given to women so four percent of venture capital is given to women and I think that's a really good thing and I think that's a money is given to women I think it's even less if you take out AI I think Mira if you take Mira out I think it goes down to 2.9 you know I think that's a con that there's bias to it what is the best way to raise money or ask for money to be really prepared about what your worth is how you're going to create profitability how you're going to get to scale quickly and what the moat is around your business I think if you can say that really easily and quickly to people I think they're going to see the opportunity and want to invest and not miss the boat I think if you have any wishy-washiness to your pitch I think that if you're not clear on how you're going to get to profitability and how quickly you're going to get there I think that's a big problem I think that you want to do your diligence like I'll talk to people who are starting businesses because I I love to mentor I love to to help people who have a dream of starting a business and they'll be missing huge chunks of their business plan they won't have a marketing plan they won't have any information as to what makes their formulas proprietary things that to your point about duping I'm like but anybody could do this tomorrow and it would be the same have you ever turned down an investor that wanted to invest and you just got bad vibes and that was enough for you to not put them on your cap table no and I wish that I had I definitely have investors that you know I was just trying I was a first-time founder I'd never raised money before I was raising money post those big checks like d to c was dead when I was raising and so people were not investing those big dollars like they had been before for me I was just kind of not desperate but like I was trying to get the deal done take me back to the hardest rejection that you faced raising venture capital because you're gonna get rejected right like people aren't gonna understand your vision I had so many rejections I don't know what the hardest one was I remember being rejected so many times that I felt like I was so tired I couldn't walk home at the end of the day like I would get off the subway and I would honestly like I would get off and I can even like picture the street that I had to walk down because I would look down it and I'd be like I don't even know how I'm gonna get home because I'm so exhausted from having gotten 10 no's or whatever it was in that day what did you do to get home there was a bodega that had a spark clean water that I really liked. And so that would, I would go in and I'd buy the sparkling water and that would be like the the thing that would get me home you are such an iconic like Estee Lauder vo girl like you're like I have a sparkling water bitch I'd be having like a cocktail after all spreads okay I think people don't fully realize how important your brand and clean beauty is in Europe more than 1300 ingredients are prohibited in the U.S. they have only banned 11 yep does that frustrate you or motivate you you know I have to admit I don't think so much about banned ingredients we have a very extensive list let's say we have over 2,000 ingredients that we don't use more than the Europe yeah we we work with this incredible toxicologist and she you know there's a lot of ingredients we don't use just because they could irritate your skin and as somebody who has extremely sensitive skin and extremely acne prone skin we formulate our product so that the person with the most sensitive skin can use them we get emails from people saying I have eczema I can't wear any makeup and then I discovered say and now I can wear makeup again and so my goal is that our products are formulated for that most sensitive skin type and then anyone can use it and enjoy it and we formulate it to have incredible finishes and be dewy and gorgeous and create butterflies and all those things but you know we are product developer called it the olympics of product development I'd say because it takes so long to develop our products I was tickled the other day because someone went into sephora with the yuca app are you familiar with the app okay and they went for people that aren't familiar with the yuca app can you explain what that is okay so it's an app that I think it was started for food and then it branched into beauty and it gives ratings as to you know the ingredients that are in products and if they're going to irritate your potentially irritate your skin and the yuca app was not created did not exist to my knowledge when I started using it so I was like okay I'm going to say so I did not formulate for this purpose but say has the highest yuca rating out of any brand of sephora and that's just because we are so committed above and beyond with our ingredients you are definitely not a trend follower like you are an innovator thought leader yeah who have been the expanders in your life and how important is that to curate whether it's socially or in person like who is expanding your brand and who is not expanding your brand and who is not expanding your life and not contracting it oh my gosh I think that's the number one most important thing I think that I have moments all the time I had one recently where I was like I'm not thinking big enough and that's because I don't have people around me that are showing me how big I can think and I someone was asking the other day they're like how'd you get started and I was like oh I moved to New York I didn't know anybody I got my first job at lucky and then I was like oh my gosh remember I remembered I had read lucky every single month for years and I was like oh my gosh years before I moved to New York I had no idea I didn't know a single person in editorial I had no idea I was gonna get that job I remember that first month or two that I was there they're like we want to photograph you to be a lucky girl and I was in the pages of lucky magazine and it was that aha moment of like oh my god anything is possible and I think the biggest problem for me and for other people is that I'm not a lucky girl I'm not a lucky girl I'm not a lucky girl I'm not that you don't know what you don't know and that's why I give that shout out to Emily Weiss of like thank you for being that expander to all of us you know taking those moments of realizing that maybe you don't have an expander around you in that moment you don't have someone to look at I recently was talking to one of my investors who led this unbelievable life-changing conference for CEOs there was only 20 of us they the majority of them were companies that are much bigger than mine and I was like she was like what's your goal of this conference and I was like my goal is to be around expanders that's all I want to get from these three days is I just want to be around people that have achieved what I want to achieve and more this is so important to talk about because I think this is the mindset of the consumer to be an expander because what essentially you're saying if I'm breaking it down is like sharing your life sharing your success and the people in the receiving end need to be in the mindset of receiving that expansion right but a lot of people look at other people's success other people's joy other people's opportunities as like well I don't have that and it almost becomes something that not that it becomes competition but it's almost like jealousy so if someone's sitting in that mindset where they look at people that they could see as an expander and they see jealousy are there things that they can do to change that mindset well Gabrielle Bernstein says it best she says that is driftwood and so anytime you look at something and you're like why do they have that and I don't have that that's actually your moment to say oh that means it's coming for me so I ever feel that like little ping of like oh like I wish I had that I'm like oh no that's just a sign that it's coming and it completely it's like a complete 180 to shift your energy how do you curate your energy your feed socially to be consuming content staying on top of pop culture trends knowing who the new influencers are but also allowing you to create more than you're consuming I recently bought a second phone that I put my social on and I leave that in my office during the week so that I'm not scrolling outside of the office I think it's a really tough balance when you're a socially first brand because I get so much inspiration from social and I love it too like I've always loved social so I love seeing what people are doing I love seeing what people are doing I love seeing the trends I love seeing all of it but when I find myself scrolling too much like I have to shut it down because I realize that they're it's taking away from me being creative in other ways and having those big ideas like I have my big ideas usually when I'm on a walk or not when I'm scrolling would you classify yourself with the word aggressive yeah I would I think that like when I think about myself in work and it's a I think a big part of why I feel so comfortable at work is because I get to be my true self there and being I know what I want I make fast decisions and you don't really get to do that socially as much and people I'd have it be normal I had Harley Finkelstein on the episode president of Shopify and he said being a founder is a personal development journey just disguised as entrepreneurship 100% and it's interesting because I would also describe myself as very aggressive I played sports really competitively even the family foundation my husband and I just set up when we got married and I was like I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this bring people from a different generation along with you that maybe didn't grow up with that I mean I hire very specifically for grit and for resilience and for personality and there's someone that just joined her team her name's Kendall and she emailed the team she said I come back from my semester abroad at nine my flight line lands at 9 a.m I can be in the office at 10 30 she was an intern and I was like this is it that's that's like the energy you want do you think you can identify that as a part of your life as a part of your life as a part of your life as a part of your in an interview no I don't and we I'd say we do often a lot of dating before we marry we'll have someone join part-time we'll have them join as a consultant before they join full-time specifically for that reason now that I have someone in the chair who's built a multi-hundred million dollar brand do you believe this thing is true that the team that takes you from like 0 to 5 5 to 15 15 to 25 is not the same team that will take you to the next iteration of your business yeah people love to talk about that and I think that it is pretty narrow-minded I have lots of people that say Aaron Michael Sarah like lots of people Lauren who have been at Cali I have so many people that say who have been there from year one and they have made the conscious decision to grow with the brand and be indispensable and I think that you know that is totally feasible and if not a benefit to the brand is just as much their brand is mine I think that there have also been people that didn't grow with the brand and that's okay too maybe they just prefer wanting to be at a smaller company which I I get that when you have to let go of an employee do you do it like fire fast or what's your mentality for being able to like make these really tough decisions I have gotten much better at that and I think when you know you know and it's better for everybody I got the advice one day I was like I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna that like if you're unhappy it probably means they are also so don't we want everyone to feel good and be happy and I think you can do anything with kindness you know there was somebody who wasn't the right fit anymore for the team and it would have been really easy for me not to have that conversation and I was like no I want to have that conversation like yeah sure I could not have it but is that the right thing to do am I gonna sleep okay tonight no we're gonna sleep okay I'm not gonna sleep okay I'm not gonna sleep okay I'm not gonna sleep okay I'm not gonna sleep implies that I am. 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So head to getrella.com and use code HSR for more information. It is a 10% off your first three months or annual plan. You can even save up to $35 on your next fill-up. Kroger, fresh for you. For everyone. Restrictions apply. If you don't really want it, you're not going to do it. First of all, when you're a mom, your capacity for everything just grows. Your capacity to love grows. Your capacity to empathize grows. Like all of you grows in my mind. You become really good at multitasking on every level. And that, to me, those are all incredible qualities in a leader. Did you know that before you started having children and started your business? Or is that something you had to prove to yourself? I don't remember being like super concerned about it. I don't remember being like I knew that I could do anything. But also, I had my mom as an example. You know, she had me and my sister. We traveled the world. Like, I think more about that. I'm like, how did they travel the way they traveled? Like, we were on boats. We were on trains. We were like in the most exotic places in the world. And my parents, my mom didn't wink an eye while having the incredible career she had. What is your dynamic like with your husband as someone who's obviously built like such a huge brand? My husband is also an entrepreneur. And for me, that has been such a blessing because he had been through everything before. And so, not only was he like amazing to, like, I asked him something the other day. I was like, hey, has this happened to you before? And like, I want to say like 99% of the time he had experienced it before. So, he was like, has been an amazing sounding board in that way. I think he has built a company that also has similar values. So, that's been really helpful of like, okay, we both are value-driven companies. I think also, like, as we were talking about like highs and lows, like, I remember a moment that I was just like taken to the ground on. Like, I was just devastated, heartbroken. And he was like, well, your heart, you feel this way because it's biblical and you will get through this moment. But like right now, like, just feel it. And like, that could not have been, there could not have been a better answer in that moment of like, yeah, it feels like a big deal because it is. And he had experienced it before and knew what a big deal it was. So, I don't really remember what we were talking about, but he has been just in a lot of ways my partner. When people say like, oh, you don't have a co-founder, like my husband, I think in a lot of ways has been. Do you believe that the most important decision that you will make is who you marry? Yes, I do. A hundred percent. And like, I, never wanted to agree with that statement because to me, it felt like it was placing just too much power on someone other than me. And as an independent person, I didn't like that concept, but I think that I've just seen so many of my friends and their relationships and the different ways that it can go. And I feel like just, I can, I also feel like I've, I've had moments where I've now and I'm like, oh my God, that's my nightmare. It is my nightmare. How do you own a room? How do you walk into a room and own it? Like, what are the exact things that you're doing? So I have a mantra and it's to be the energy that you want to see in the room. And I developed that because I don't know if you heard about this book that was written by, I think it was a woman who had had a really bad accident and she was in the hospital and she couldn't speak and people would enter the room and she could see a light around them. And that light was represented their energy. And it was so impactful for her when somebody would come in a room with really good energy versus if someone would come in the room with bad energy. And as somebody who was injured and the way that she felt and she wasn't even able to communicate it until after she got better. But I was like, when I read that and I was like, oh wow, that's how important our energy is. It actually is surrounding all of us. We just can't see it. And I think everybody reacts to that energy, even subconsciously. Yeah. I always say like, I, the only reason I'm sitting here is because I attracted what I wanted to get. Like I'm not the smartest person ever, but because I was happy and energetic, people were like, I want to help this person. You know, you can't help yourself. Yeah. Okay. Lainey, we have to end with some rapid fire because we've been talking for over an hour. Oh my God. What is the last thing you put on your credit card? I put a bottle of water, which is so unlike me. I never leave the house without a reusable water bottle, but I left the house at 4am this morning to come see you. And I forgot my water bottle. So I got a water bottle and I got a banana and it was $23. No, it's disgusting how expensive the airport is. I cannot. I was going to ask what's the last most expensive thing, but would it be that? I'm kidding. What is the last most expensive thing? I had been looking for a specific watch. I'm not wearing it right now, so I can't show it to you, but I've been looking for it for over a year. And it's a vintage Piaget watch that I found, actually a friend of mine found it in London. And I had wired that money within 10 minutes. I'm obsessed with that answer. I'll show you a picture. Yeah. Do you collect watches? I love watches. Yeah. Okay. This wasn't on the sheet. But let's get into it. You can only pick one for the rest of your life. Watches or Birkins? Watches. Oh, okay. Okay. That's how serious we're talking. Yes. What is your credit card and why? I have an American Express and I don't know why. Good travel. No, I just think because credit cards have become a status symbol and a question I get all the time, hence like doing this for the community. I actually have a really good answer to this. Okay, go. I don't even know where my wallet is. Everything is on my phone and I have credit cards on there. Yeah. This one's hard. Favorite beauty brand that isn't yours? Oh my gosh. I mean, I'm a beauty lover. This is a really tough one for me right now. I'm going to say Sophie Povett. Her skincare is made for acne prone, sensitive girlies like me. And I use her entire routine. You can only leave the house in one makeup product. What is it? Glowy Super Gel. All over. I put it on the other day. I had time to do glowy super gel and brush my brows and i looked sick love it okay you can only pick one a good blowout or a facial blowout i love how fast your answers are oh yeah i'm super decisive okay someone said that to me today they're like they're like wow you make decisions really quickly and i was like i've made 10 decisions and already learned from my mistakes from them yeah before you've made one yeah okay gua sha or lymphatic drainage massage lymphatic drainage love yeah i kind of stopped doing gua sha and i i regret it but i i have abandoned my gua sha routine i used to be really diligent i used to do it on me during meetings i stopped doing it but i love love love of lymphatic massage how often i wish i could get one tonight i have a good girl yeah can i see her yeah i can text her for you she's actually amazing um um people don't want to see my face without a gua sha i gotta say like i have a really round face that is it's not a it's not a vibe okay i have a really toxic brain which i feel like you don't do you have a really positive brain no i'm i'm a glass half empty person yeah okay so same and i will tell myself things like people hate me people don't want to see me succeed so every single day i do these hsr love notes okay it's almost like an affirmation but i just wanted to brand it myself i love it um if you could only say one hsr love note for the rest of your life to yourself to get through anything what would it be i mean the first thing that came to my mind was you can do anything yeah i say it to my kids all the time too you guys can do anything you just have to work really hard i love that yeah did your parents tell you that they didn't tell me that they but they a hundred percent instilled that in me i feel like my dad i always think about this other day i feel like my dad raised me and my sister like boys not on purpose but i feel like my dad raised me and my sister like boys not on purpose but i think he just treated us like boys in the sense of like it didn't really occur to us that things weren't available or on the table or um on the menu for us and if you could title this season of your life what would it be called oh i think it's my favorite yeah i'm having the time of my life i'm so happy yeah my kids are the best my business is the best my friends are amazing i live this incredible place i love everyone i work with life is good i love that we need more people to share that laney crowell yes where can people find you and how can hsr help you right now so well i mean i would love for everyone to try say my favorite thing about say is that when people use it they text me or dm me and they go my entire makeup bag is now say like once you discover our formulas you just can't stop and i want everyone to have products that make their skin feel their best and even get better where can people find you oh my gosh sephora we're exclusive at sephora nationwide in canada your sister can get us there too sephora.com and say hello.com yeah you know i know you're such a founder it didn't even cross your mind to be like at laney crowell on instagram people are like at maggie sellers remit on instagram you're like go to sephora and buy my product well you'll tag me at laney yes content of course thank you so much for coming on husband rich we absolutely love you and i can't wait for everyone to hear your story i feel like we were like just getting in our room like is it really over okay i was i was you know i just landed it took me a second but like now we're in it you smashed it you'll be back for part two okay great in done if you're starting a business there are certain things that are so fun to think about y'all know i love a mood board so everything that relates to the creative the name the brand the website the vision board but then there are the things that make you pause and ask am i even doing this correctly or do i even want to be doing this like forming your business getting the right documents keeping your personal information private this is where our sponsor northwest registered agent is so helpful they're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral they help you form an llc or a corporation act as your registered agent and give you tools like a business address operating agreement website phone number professional email and free guides they also have real corporate guides who know your local laws visit northwest registered agent dot com slash hsr free and start using free resources to build something amazing get more with northwest registered agent at northwest registered agent dot com slash hsr free now at kroger your points add up to more ways to save every trip use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout or save at the pump you can even save up to 35 on your next fill up same points more choices and with low prices on fresh quality food plus digital and personalized 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