Land-based Fishing Botany Bay: Mulloway Madness

Well, A-LIF list is we are definitely now into the throes of winter and that means that a lot of the fair weather anglers that turn up during those summer months, during the pleasant time of the year, they're staying home and staying warm, the serious guys in Galso, let's just say they'll put fishing ahead of comfort so they'll be out there catching some quality fish and it's a great time of year to fish, particularly if your home waters are highly pressured like Botany Bay for example. Obviously there are some seasonal factors to consider, not every species is around and winter, some new species come in winter that aren't necessarily around during the summer months. The great advantage you have is less boats on the water, less commotion, fish are less shy, often if there's a bit of flood water coming down, the water might be a little bit murky air, the fish might be feeding more aggressively and so on and so forth. And so it is for anglers who fish Botany Bay as my guest today does. Those cooler months provide some amazing opportunities to target Malawite. So we're going to get into that in just a moment but before we do, we're going to be talking a lot today about fishing with soft plastic lures which is fortuitous because in a few short weeks I will be launching my soft plastic lures boot camp. Now the soft plastic lures boot camp is all about exposing you to a range of techniques and tactics you can use with soft plastic lures. Its species independent doesn't matter whether you're fishing north or south but brim or trout or Malawite or bar it doesn't really matter. But it takes you through everything you need to know about fishing with soft plastic lures in a very methodical step by step way. You can get back to it over and over again and reference the videos and reference the materials. Now if you're a team doc lures member and you've been a member for a little while then this is absolutely free for you and if you're not a team doc lures member you get 12 months membership when you sign up for the boot camp which gives you access to all those resources that are available to my members like live streams and audio master classes and of course the extended edition of various podcast episodes including today's episode which is an ALF+ episode. So team doc lures members you don't need to do anything you'll receive an email and you course telling you how you can access the soft plastic boot camp. Everybody else if you're interested in expanding your knowledge on how to fish with soft plastic lures and jump over to doc lures.com/bootcamp that's BTCAMP doc lures.com/bootcamp and there is a link in the show notes. So if you get to the show notes for this episode you will find a link that will take you straight through to where you can find out more about the boot camp. Now obligation to sign up you can just go and check it out and see what's involved. But with that folks it's time for us to start today's episode of the Australian Lures Fishing Podcast. So let's shake off the cold and go get started. This is the Australian Lures Fishing Podcast where our mission is to help everyday sports fishes experience extraordinary lure fishing. If next level fishing is your dream then let us provide the tools and information that will bring that dream to life. Tune in as our expert host chat with Australia's best anglers and share their tips for success. Then check out our website it's one of Australia's largest and most popular online fishing resources. But right now settle into listen as ALF founder Greg doc lures vinyl delivers today's episode through the nerdy lens of a scientist, lure maker and sport fishing tragic. Hey there folks time for another episode of the Australian Lures Fishing Podcast and what a treat we've got for you today because we are going fishing in botany bay. One of Sydney's most popular waterways, one of Australia's most popular waterways I should say, Sydney just to the north, all the southern suburbs of course and all that sort of stuff all around botany bay. It's a well built up area. Lots of people fish there, and Georgia's river as well of course the airport right there on the banks at the northern end of botany bay but some quality fish to be caught there. And even for those who are land based and that's what we get to talk about today with our guest Tom Munro. Tom is an absolute gun when it comes to targeting the mighty mull away in botany bay and we're going to focus on that. He catches lots of other species too I'll tell you. Kind of look at his Facebook profile, his Instagram profile, you're going to see plenty of big flathead there. You're going to see some quality marie caught as well but mull away his passion and that's something that he's worked out over the last four or five years when he's been lure fishing for the last four or five years. He's been fishing for a lot longer than that but I'm not going to stop telling Tom's story. I'm going to let him tell himself say Tom, welcome to the episode mate or welcome to the Australian Lures Fishing Podcasts. I'm looking forward to a great conversation. Oh thanks Greg, I'm very honoured to be on the show so thanks for having me. Mate you have absolutely earned it just judging by your social media and having had a chat with you and got a bit of a sense of who you are and we're going to give our list as a sense of that in just a moment as well but make some quality mull away on your profile or coming land based from botany bay and I think that is, yeah that speaks for itself really when it comes to targeting fish on lures mullies we're one of the tougher ones and in a populated area like botany bay if you're consistently catching quality fish there and I'm seeing lots of metre plus fish caught and released which is really nice and then you're doing pretty well mate so look we're going to get into how you go about doing that in just a moment before we do though let's introduce you a little bit more fully to our audience for some getting to know your questions you up for that. Yeah yeah sounds good Greg. Fantastic mate so obviously mull away that's the target species tonight that's the species that we're going to focus this conversation around but lots of other species have already mentioned a couple what else do you like to fish for when you're not targeting the mullies? Yeah probably my other favourite species of the mull away would have to be flood out especially the sort of bigger size ones not that I catch a great deal of them but when they get to that size over 80 centimetres they're just a different fish entirely and yeah so it would have to be the larger flooded to target and also Murray cod as well I haven't done a whole lot of Murray cod fishing but I'm lucky enough to know some gun Murray cod fishermen up around townway fair areas people of the likes of Nick Goliath and Andy Goliath have showed me the ropes with Murray cod fishing and I've got me onto some good fish yeah. Got some good mentors mate and I think that's what you need when you're going after a species like cod they're you know repeated to be the fish for a thousand cast as are the mulloes. It's the only one that you can bring on board that knows the species knows the locations and can just flatten that learning curve a little bit that's always a good thing or reckon. Very true yeah and people to be competitive with as well that you always want to get a one off on. Excellent excellent yeah that's always yeah that's a good thing to be pushing each other along and always trying to do that little bit better that's definitely going to propel everybody forward. Yep. So, mate obviously you've got plenty to keep you busy around the botany bay area and I'm assuming judging by the faded images I'm assuming port hacking is probably an area that you fish as well while I'll be right and saying that. Yeah a little bit yeah I've got one spot I particularly like port hacking but definitely botany bay more than hacking. Okay. Alright and then the big flaties are coming from botany as well. Yeah. Okay excellent. Wow. Wow. Okay. Very good alright look like I say lots to keep you busy there lots of different species and you've mentioned a few of them but if you could head off to somewhere else mate and you could target something else a little while take a week off head off to any part of Australia no phones no computers no responsibilities just you and a fishing rod where would you like to spend that week and why. Oh it's a good question it have to be cod fishing because I don't get to do it all the time in Sydney and would have to probably be going back to that new England area around Tamoa fishing the pale and the Namoi river and just setting off on foot and casting big lures for cod I think it's pretty hard for it to get better than that. So you like the cod from the rivers rather than the lakes? Yeah yeah definitely river cod is yep that's what sort of keeps me up at night. Yep. Alright mate have you got a species that you haven't caught yet so something on your bucket list that you'd like to tick off before you kick off? Yeah I've recently been watching the on YouTube as most fishermen and anglers are I watch a lot of fishing YouTube videos I've been watching the Colby Lesco videos of him catching jungle perch and I think that's a pretty cool species just because of the sort of places it takes you like looking in the rainforests just and small river systems and they're just such an amazing fish as well I'd love to go and target them one day I've never done it so yeah. Yep yeah stunning species to look at as well. A very photogenic fish in very photogenic locations yet so certainly an awesome way to fish if you go after the jungle perch. Totally. If we were to rummage tree attack a box this is a question that trips a few people up but if we were to rummage tree attack a box but something we might find there the average angler probably wouldn't have. Alright okay let me think. Oh look that's a tricky question I find I usually go for pretty safe gear because it's the fish that are pretty unpredictable but if I had to choose something at the moment it would be pompadol because I know a lot of people have them in but I've been trying to target mull away on one so I guess that's a bit I guess that counts as something that's a bit unusual. And how do you succeed it? I hooked one two nights ago. Yes. and I got dusted on some structure, but that's all I need to know to keep me going. - Yeah, yep, an expensive lure to keep getting dusted on. You wouldn't want to do that to it. - Oh no, it's fishing over, right? It just. - Yeah, absolutely. No pain, no gain. I had the prize, all that kind of stuff. - Yep. - Very good. - Mate, have you got a favorite piece of fishing tech or a favorite fishing gadget? Obviously being land-based, it's probably not gonna be an electric motor or a sound. - No, no, no, no, no, no. - It's not, yep, it's not your tech line. - Yeah, I'd have to go with a good pair of waiters. I know they're not exactly high tech, but I think for the type of fishing I do, access is really important. Getting out to places that not a lot of people can get to and a pair of waiters for me has proven to be really important. Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. And for those up north like myself who can't figure out why you never want to wear waiters, get some bit cool down there mate. (laughing) - Yep, that's right. (laughing) We don't have the luxury of sitting in air on this time of year, as you said before. - No, that's right, but also you don't get stung or bitten like we do quite as much. So, there's pros and cons, there's trade-offs both ways. - Yep, that's right, that's right. - All right, if you can spend a day out on Botany Bay having a fish with anybody on the planet, this could be a family member or it could be a high-profile fish show or sports bandit, anyone you like really, but somebody you'd like to spend a day fishing with, casting lures at a few mull away and just cheering the fat and having a good day out, who would that be? - Oh, gee, I've got a couple of answers. My first thought was probably Rex Hunt. (laughing) I heard Rex Hunt's fishing world at my house, that book growing up as a kid and I used to read that a lot and they got me pretty excited. - Yes. - I'd probably really, to be honest, have to say my dad because he's famously a pretty average fisherman. He still hasn't learned how to put a plastic on properly after all these years and the thought of getting him onto a really good fish is pretty exciting, so. - Yep, yep, yep, awesome stuff. Nothing better than father and son, father and daughter getting out of the water together and building that bond and having a great time catching a few fish. - Yep, very true, yep. - All right mate, last of these getting to know your questions, have you ever get to really start getting stuck into how you go about catching mull away in Botany Bay? Mate, I want you to tell us a story of your favorite memory of catching a mull away in Botany Bay on lure and I want you to relate it to us in a way that we feel like we're standing on the bank watching it all unfold. (laughing) - Okay, yeah, I'd probably have to go the most recent really big mull away I caught, which is my PB. I was at my local favorite spot at Botany Bay in a howling southerly at night or by myself and I was lucky enough to catch a 129 centimeter one - Yikes. - On 12 pound line, which was a bit. - Nice, which was a touching game. - But yeah, it was like a really long fight and I had to walk out into the water which was past Chess Steve and in the pitch black to land with the water coming into my weighters and yeah, I'm sure they're feeling of the moment I grabbed it when your legs start shaking and yeah, I think that's all I'll never forget for the rest of my life. - Cold and wet, weight is full of water, big smile from ED. - Yeah, I can tell you, I didn't feel the cold. (laughing) - No, that's right, that's right. 129 centimeters mate, that's a fantastic fish and great effort on 12th and line, so well done. How frequently do you pull me to plus fish out of Botany Bay? - Oh, not very to be honest. A lot of, yeah, very rarely, but I do, yeah, 80 centimeter plus with caught a few. - Yeah. - It's not something that occurs that I do put a lot of hours into it. This thing we're mull away fishing, I think there's still so much I have yet to figure out but that's the beauty of it. You just keep getting little hints and little clues and I've definitely gotten more consistent, so it's just that little bit of improvements that keep you going over the years and. - Yeah, it's incremental and it comes with spending time on the water as you've said. I love that you mentioned that you don't always catch me to plus fish and this is the thing that a lot of people they see the Instagram pages, they see the Facebook pages, they see the YouTube channels, they see the TV shows and I think that you go out there every time and catch these fish but they don't understand that there's kind of two phases here. One is learning how to catch them in the first place and the other is perfecting that and increasing your strike rate and putting in the hours and a lot of mull away fishermen spend a lot of hours out on the water between fish. And how often would you have a day or night day when you're out chasing the mullies? - Oh, definitely. It happens quite a lot to be honest. - Yeah, less and less but yeah, they're just, oh sorry, we got close. I've just had a mental blank we'll have to. - That's right. - You want to ask me the question? - So I love that you mentioned that it's not always about catching meter plus mull away every time you go out and that you do have to work for them because a lot of people see the Instagram, they see the Facebook and they see the YouTube, not just yours but other people's as well. I'm like just assume that every time you go out, you're going to catch a meter. But every time you go out, you're going to catch a bucket load of mull away but that's not the way it works. - Not at all. Yeah, I regularly have doughnuts and although they've got less and less, there's the years have gone on. - Yeah, they're still a very tricky species to knot down. - Yes. - And I don't consider myself an expert by any means and yeah, I have a long way to go to get to the level of the mull away fisherman out there. - Yeah, that's all the fun of it. It sounds weird but I like it when it takes a long time to catch a good fish. I say if I have five nights in a row and the cold doughnutting, it ups the stakes and then when you finally do land a good one, it just the rewards even bigger. - Sweet up. Yep, I totally understand that mate. I know exactly where you're coming from but I guess the point I'd make is if you're not the sort of person that is willing to put in those hours, if you're not the sort of person that's happy to go out and have a few fishless trips between fish, there may be target species that's more consistent but plenty of other species around that you can target. - That's definitely a good advice I think. - But if you really want that reward of catching mull away on lures and getting more and more consistent, as you say, now it gets easier, it doesn't come as easily with some other species but it does definitely get easier. Yeah, you've got to earn that. It's not one of those things that just happen. So really enjoyed you sharing that with us Tom. So that's fantastic. But let's move on and have a bit of a chat about how you go about targeting mull away in this system, right? So let's start by perhaps getting you to tell us something that you've learned over the last four or five years that you've been chasing them. That may be the average angler who goes out for the first time or maybe has only been at half a dozen times chasing mull away, might not know. - Yeah, I think with mull away and bonnie bay, bonnie bay is such a pressured system. What I've learned is that it really pays off to get into those less accessed areas. And it's a bit of a challenge, lamb based. But yeah, just maybe walking the extra distance or going somewhere that not a whole lot of people fish pays off big time. And yeah, that's why I was saying before with waiters, it unlocks a lot of lamb based spots, like drop offs and all that, that a lot of people don't go to. - Yep. - Yeah, I guess the other thing as well is you can catch them in any type of water. (laughs) Oh, and I don't really fish deep holes very often. I'm mostly getting my mull away and very shallow water, like a couple of meters. A couple of meters max, sometimes one meter. - Yeah, it more depends on the conditions. But yeah, the thing I've learned that's helped the most is paying attention to rainfall, wind and marine phases, I think. - Yep. - Yep, yep, nice. That's a really good segue into the next question that I was gonna ask you. In fact, it's a good segue to the next two questions I was gonna ask you because the first one was gonna be all about the types of structures, and the next one was gonna be about the conditions that will lend themselves to bite. So let's start with those structures. You've mentioned, you don't necessarily need deep water. And this is something we hear a lot from keen mull away fish oes is that these fish come into quite shallow water to feed. They feed on whiting, they feed on mullet, they feed on brin, they feed on luric. There's a species that quite often are found in shallow water. And so that's where if you find a mull away in shallow waters, more than likely to see the feed a mull away in deeper water, maybe feeding or it might just be resting up. So tell us about, and I want specific spots here because as you said, botany bay is a pressured fishery, but tell us about the kinds of structure you look for. What if you were looking at a patch of water either you're standing on the bank having a look or perhaps looking on Google Earth or whatever and trying to plan a trip, what would you be looking for that would tell you this is a likely spot to go and give it a crack. Yeah, I always look for drop offs on sand banks. So I look at areas where I think bay will be pushed and if there's an access point where you can walk out to drop off from about one metre to a couple of metres, then that to me says, yeah, there could be mull away there given the right conditions. And in terms of so, it's mostly about drop offs and water depths. There's not really anything about their structure, reef weed, anything like that or water currents. You look for currents. See, yeah, definitely somewhere with a bit of current flowing through is ideal, but because I fish so light, sort of 10 pound line, 12 pound line, I prefer there's not heavy structure around because it just adds to the challenge of landing them. But I love fishing sand banks, I guess, is the main sort of structure. Okay, yeah, this is not a species that typically is going to dive into a reef and brick you. Are you talking about that? That's right. You have to move to 29 fish. If that's pulling a lot of line out and there's a bit of rock there, there's a great opportunity for that line to take the rock and it's all over. Oh, okay. It's having plenty of times before to me. Yep, but I'd imagine that would be the case. Anything else we need to know about picking a spot mate, for somebody who's not done this style of fishing before, let's imagine we're looking at Google Earth, is there anything that we should be looking at there other than the drop-offs? Yeah, I would start places that a lot of current, which is past it, definitely it's worth looking at some deeper water, fishing them with heavier jig heads and vibes and those sorts of lures. Yeah, saying that though, it just continues to amaze me all the different spots, Mallow Way pop up. In fact, some of my most consistent Mallow Way spots I'd fish for quite a while before realizing that you could get them there. And they're not really your typical on paper Mallow Way spots. They keep breaking the rules for me. I'd say going to looking at spots with an open mind and knowing that you probably can catch Mallow Way in most spots in an estuary. So it's more about what the conditions are that you can catch them in. Yeah. Yeah. I can totally relate to that, Omer, as a uni student, we used to fish for them off the beaches. And for a long time we were looking for channels and deep holes and we were looking for the right kinds of beach structure. But we had one guy who used to get on and he was consistently catching 25 kilo fish. Oh, wow. We couldn't figure out where he was getting him until eventually we sprung him one night fishing off the main beach, the main swimming beach in town, which wouldn't have ever been more than about three feet deep. We'd always say Mallow Way over it. And so we'd always overlooked that because it wasn't deep water. And that was the first place he was going to. And of course, we never saw him out fishing because we were in different places over the deep water. Yeah, I totally relate to what you're saying. I think there's some great advice there for anyone who's thinking about having a go. Now we're as off limits, these fish will move into shallow water, they'll move into deep water. They'll get round structure that will work. Those drop offs anywhere there's bait. They're going to be there. So as you say, approach with an open mind through the right lure. So look for the right conditions. So let's move on to exactly that. Let's have a talk about those conditions, mate. Yep. You know, I was to turn up at your place and say, Hey, Tom, let's go out and chase Botany Bay Mully. What conditions would you be hoping for in terms of tides and winds and water temperatures and all that kind of stuff? What are the prime conditions for male or female fishing? Yeah, I think it's no secret that Botany Bay fish is best after a big dump of rain. I don't know whether they get flushed out of the systems and induce a spawning or whatnot, but yeah, I tend to do best when the water is not so clear. And it's interesting in terms of winds and tides, each spot in Botany Bay is a bit different. So my best advice would be to start keeping track. I think every spot in Botany Bay has its best tide, has its best wind. So yeah, it's best to just keep track of when you're seeing them. But my favorite conditions are pretty much the most miserable conditions to fish in. I like a howling subtly and a lot of rain and dirty water. Yeah. And especially this time of year, I always do best with my low way around anywhere from April to August really. Yeah, definitely the colder months. Yeah. Yeah, in terms of the tides, I have caught them on all different tides, but I'd have to say probably the big high tides that come around a full moon or a new moon when they're pushing into areas they wouldn't otherwise. And also around the slack tide of the low in the first hour of the run in tide. Okay. Yeah, they're the tides that I do the best with my low way. Yeah, but saying that, I've caught him right, thanks Mark in the middle of the tide, so who knows. And look, that's a great point because I love that you raise. You can catch them on any tide and that some places will fish better on some tides. And I've told this story before, but I'll tell it again for those who haven't heard it when I first started fishing for snapper in Morton Bay. When I first moved to the Brisbane area, I'd go out and I'd talk to some of the locals who really knew the snapper fishing. On some of them, it's a, you've got a fish on the incoming tide. And others would say, boy, it's fish on the run out tide and others would say fish on the slack tide. And they're all accomplished anglers who are catching plenty of snapper and it turned out. So, there's a lot of different spots right and so the fish are moving around and depending on which spot you fish, there was a good tie, but these guys each had one piece of the puzzle. If they put all the pieces together, they couldn't fish on any tide, but it took a few bit of sorting out. Yeah, I think the big lesson there is if you think you're going to catch fish, then you probably will because you're a bit more dialed in. You're being a bit slow with your retrieves, taking a bit more time, edge cast. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a great point because if we're out and we think, I'm going to go ahead and have a fish tide, it's not great. Yeah, conditions are not great. Not really fishing in the right spot. Wind is not great. In your own mind, you've already decided you're probably not going to catch a fish and so you're a little bit half-hearted. You don't work the lures as well. You're not paying your attention that you're short and all that kind of stuff. Whereas if you go out with the attitude, I can catch a fish here anytime, any tide, then you're going to be on point. You're going to be ready to hit those fish and you're really looking for opportunities. So true. Okay. Good good. All right. I think that's given us a pretty good starting point. So we know in terms of the structure, what to look for, we know in terms of the conditions. So I love, again, a dirty water that's a common mulleye thing. But once again, let me confirm with you, tell me if I'm wrong, but again, you can still catch fish right through the summer, but when a time there, probably a little bit more active, a little bit less spooky. Are they going to be coming all of those flats in the dirty water chasing the mullet and prawns and stuff that we washed out of the river systems? So they're just a bit more active at this time of year. Was that my right in saying that? Absolutely. This time of year, it suits my style of fishing the best, but yeah, you can catch mulleye any time of year. Yeah. Yeah. I think once you're limiting yourself to one idea when to catch them, that's when you start putting in the hours. That really takes pieces that if you're just putting a lot of hours on in the water, you'll slowly start to figure them out and you can catch them all year round. Yeah. The downside to a fish that can be caught on any tide, but you've got a fish different locations or different ways is you've got to figure out all those tides and those locations. The upside is once you've got to figure it out, then you can fish any time and have a good chance to catch you fish. Now, daytime versus nighttime, mate, you mentioned that your recent capture of the 329 centimetres, that was at night. How often do you fish during the day? Oh, look, I'm mostly fish during the day, actually. Yeah. And I've caught plenty of mulloway right in the middle of the day. I remember one time when my fishing buddy Andy were fishing over a Cornell area. This was years ago now and we had this magical session where we just caught mulloway after mulloway and that was bang on midday. So. Yeah. It really, yeah, more depends on the tide, I think. They definitely feed during the day and at night. But yeah, as of late, I've definitely gone into night fishing a little bit more. Yeah. Okay. Any reason for that? Not particularly, I don't think. That's worked out. Yeah, I think the daylight, daylight saving extended and if you're working, you don't have as much time to fish. So, yeah, I've had to push my sessions into the night a little bit, but I've found they've been really productive. Yeah, good, good. I had love fishing at night and do quite a bit of it, but particularly up here during the summertime and that's all about being out in the cooler part of the day and being out when there's less people in the water as well. But I'm not sure I'd be fishing as much at night down south, but I think the colder get to be. Yeah. It can be a bit sketchy at night waiting in the water when you weigh steep and it's pitch black and it's freezing cold, but I don't know. So, it's all part of the fun, I think. Yeah. You don't feel the cold when you get one. No, that's absolutely right. Yep, yep. All right. So, what I'd like to do now, mate, is just take a little bit of a deviation and talk a little bit about tack on. I'm interested because you've already mentioned a couple of times, you're fishing 10 to 12 pounds sort of line classes. So, can you run us through for somebody who maybe is looking to gear up to target some botany bay mullaway shore based? Can you run us through the gear that you use in terms of rod reel line and lead us to the basic combo? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, most of the time I target mullaway, I'm just running a 2 to 4 kilo or a 3 to 6 kilo rod. I've got a Shimano X pride at the moment, which is just a great ride. I really love bits stiffer rods. Yeah, I just find them I know can go a long way if you hook it slightly bigger one. But yeah, really light gear, a 2.5,000 real spooled with 8 pound, 10 pound braid. For me, that's all I've really needed. Obviously if you're fishing in heavy structure, then I'd recommend going up a lot. Yeah, not keep it light because you'll get a lot more bites. As you said before, they're not really the kind of fish to pick. They're not like kingfish, where they'll just aim for a bit of structure and try and dust you. I think there's something rewarding as well about landing a really good fish on like gear. That sort of adds to the challenge. Yeah, absolutely. And also, as we've already said, expect a lot of time and a lot of casts, a lot of time spent out of the water chasing these fish. That gets pretty tight, if you're using heavy gear. If you've got light gear, you can cast all day, doesn't bother you, doesn't wear you out, doesn't get heavy in your hand. And so you don't feel inclined to give in because the rods are heavy. That's what you can cast with that sort of gear, you can cast a fairly light lure and win and cast it over the horizon. Go a long way. I'm not sure if that's important when you're fishing for Malaway or not. Yeah, definitely covering a bit of ground can really help. Yeah, especially like lambace fishing as well. Yeah, just doing a bit of a grid pattern with your cast, making sure you're covering plenty of ground and I like walking as well. So I'll always be on the move when I'm lambace fishing. I don't really grind it out in the one spot. Like I know some of my friends that I fish with more into that, but yeah, I like to walk around a bit. Yeah, in terms of a gear as well, actually, I already answered that bit. Sorry, sorry. Quick. We'll have to get back. No, no, it's a good. So tell us about leaders, mate, because that's the kind of missing piece of the puzzle when it comes to tackle. So we've got to add a 10 to 12 pound line and also the length of the rod. What's what a length is your rod? Yeah, I'll start with a later. Yeah, probably 10 pound, 12 pound or 14 pound flora carbon later is what I would use for defensive. You're throwing bigger profiles as well. That's when I'd use 12 or 14, but if I'm throwing sort of three inch plastics and stuff, I'd go down to six, eight or 10. Yeah. Yeah. I use FC rock later mostly, which is a flora carbon later, which I, yes, it's a little bit more expensive, but I rate it pretty highly. I got a, got a, a taste bowl, my fishing buddies for being really loyal to Jarvis Walker mono for years and years as a leader of choice, but I've finally moved on from that, but I still think it's pretty good leader. So yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a works, but it doesn't really matter. It doesn't, it is quite often we get a bit pretentious about some of the gear that we use or people recommend the particular thing because they think it's the ants pants, but others just as well as something else. If it works for you, that's fine. And I've recently put, put a couple of spools of Schneider line, I've been using flora carbon for a long time. I've got mono there for certain things as well, but every now and then I switch over to the Schneider, because for it's abrasion resistance, so it may, but works for you, it works for you. And that's, that's all that matters. But I'm, I appreciate you giving us a kind of an idea of that sort of weight range of leaders using as well, because it's quite light. A lot of people would assume, particularly northerners like myself, we'd start at 40, 50 pound leader fishing for better up here. Yeah, going down 10, 12 pound or less, yeah, that would be very light for us, but it's perfectly adequate for a mile away. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And allows those lures to work better. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah, getting a light ride so you can get a nice action on your lure goes a long way. I usually fish with seven foot rods. Okay. But yeah, I think, yeah, casting distance counts a lot when fishing for mile away land base, but yeah, also something light enough to get, be able to control your plastic really well, especially if you're fishing with light jig heads. Yeah, yeah. You want to be able to feel what's going on at the other end of that line? Definitely, because sometimes a mile away bite can be extremely subtle. And yeah, that's why fishing with braid and keeping your line taught the whole time much as possible. So you really feel any really subtle bite because some of the biggest mile away I've caught have been from the tightest feeling bites. And if I didn't set the hook, then I might have missed them. That's a great tip right there. So anyone who's listening in, if you've got a pen and paper handy, write that one down. Otherwise come back and listen to this episode again, but that's a great tip because I think a lot of people miss a lot of fish because they're just not quite, they haven't figured out that just because it might be very subtle little peck on the line or twitch in the leader, it can still be a large fish. Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes, another tip I would say is sometimes a slightly, depending on the water you're fishing, a slightly heavier jighead can actually help you keep that line a bit tighter. So you're ready to set the hook, especially if you're fishing in a bit of current, something like that. So yeah, it's about always changing it for the, to suit the conditions. So yeah, yeah, the teprennial trick is not balancing the weight of the jighead. There's light as possible to get the action, but then you go too light, you're not going to feel the bites, you're not going to keep the little where you want it, it's not going to get down deep enough for that kind of bit. Yeah, absolutely. So, if you're speaking of Lewis time, what I want to do next is go through your top three Lewis for Malawai fishing. Just bear with me a second. Sorry about that. All good. So speaking of Lewis time, what I'd like to do next is go through your top three Lewis for Malawai fishing in Botany Bay and get a bit of a rundown on how to fish each of them. But before we do that, I've got a bunch of guys and girls who support the Australian Law fishing podcast by joining my team.ruis membership. And for those guys, I often ask a few extra questions. They're a little bit of extra meat around them that might help them get a little bit of an edge. You, you happy to reward my team.ruis members with a few extra questions? Absolutely. Of course. Fantastic. Appreciate that. So what I would like to talk about for this next couple of questions is a little bit about the difference between targeting Malawai land-based versus the majority of anglers who I talk to are fishing for them out of a boat or a kayak, certainly in in-bays and estuaries. That's often the case. Not so much off beaches and headlands and that kind of stuff. But I want to talk about that land-based aspect. I want to talk about it especially in the context of highly pressured waterway. And I also would just like to get into your strategy now. Now you've been fishing for the last four or five years for Malawai and you've actually made a considered effort to figure out how to catch these fish. And so I want to talk a little bit about how you've gone about that because this could apply to anybody with it's flathead or kingfish or snapper or up north here could be jacks or it could be barra. If you really want to catch a species, you need to put in the time and the effort to figure them out and go out and put the time in and actually figure out how to catch those fish. So I want to talk a little bit about that. So let's start with the land-based fishing aspect. Mate, we've talked a little bit already about waders and getting advantage of waiting out the majority of people not doing that. So that allows you to reach areas at perhaps average angles and not reaching. What else to read us now about land-based fishing? Mate, how's it differ? Folks, as I said at the beginning, this is an ALF+ episode. So Team Dark Lewis members, why are you listening to this? Team Dark Lewis members should be getting the extended edition. You should be getting the private feed. Where you ain't get this ad, you'll get an extra 10 or 15 minutes of conversation with Tom where we go. In a great detail about some elements of fishing for Malawai land-based that you might need to know, things to understand about wind, about tides, about moons and about fishing from the shore for Malawai specifically. All of that, of course, is in the ALF+ edition, which my Team Dark Lewis members are enjoying right now. So if you're not a member and you would like to expand your fishing horizons, then why not support the Australian Law fishing podcast? It cost you about $2.50 a week. It had access to your audio master classes, live streams, online resources and of course the soft plastic Lewis boot camp that's launching on the 1st of August. So you want to be part of that. To get involved, it's team.doclos.com. Once again, TEAM.doclos.com. Go and check it out now. Otherwise, folks, we'll just go back to the public edition of the Australian Law fishing podcast and finish our back conversation with Tom. I love the idea of not letting the fact that it's a busy waterway get in the way of catching some fish. Yep. Yep. That's it. Cool. Mate, let's welcome back a regular list of the Australian Law fishing podcast members of the public. So we've had a great conversation. Some really quality, pro-level tips there for anyone who's particularly wanting to go land-based fishing for Malawai in Botany Bay. If you want to get hold of that, definitely consider joining TEAM.doclos. It'll cost you less than what you pay for a pint of beer at the pub once a month, but the knowledge that Tom has just shared with us, that'll last a lot longer than the beer that'll last you for a lifetime and put you under some good fish, not just in Botany Bay, but other parts of Australia as well. So definitely consider supporting the podcast and doing that. But Tom, now it's time for us to start talking about the looes that you use. And I know there's thousands and thousands of looes that could be used and you may have a hard time narrowing your head. it down but what I'd like you to do is dig deep and give us three particular lures that we should have with us. Three lures that I guess would give you confidence nine times out of ten that when you're on the water one of these lures is going to do the trick and then we're going to go through each of those lures one by one and talk about how to go about fishing them and when to fish them the conditions that lend themselves to each lure. So have you got three in my? Funny you say this because I get teased by my fishing buddies for always using my old faithful lures. I do mix it up a bit but yeah without a doubt my number one go to lure is it's a soft plastic and it's the squidgy bowtough fish in 100 millimeters and specifically in the natural bay color. Now I'm a bit worried about saying this on your podcast because I find it hard enough to find these at the local fishing stores as it is. And as I say I don't know whether it's I just always fish with these lures when I think that the conditions will be best for Malloway but I really do well on them. Yep they're just a good the white bay profile that 100 millimeter they let out a really good vibration they have a great action in the tail and they're really durable as well they're not the sort of soft plastics that fall apart after a couple of uses and they're very sparkly and I think the Malloway likes that. Yeah cool cool yeah it's got that shiny silvery mullet or wideings sort of appearance about it doesn't it? Yeah yeah yeah and a good indication we say often on the show elephant eat peanuts you're in the chat in for hopefully some the some chance you might hook a meter plus fish doesn't mean you necessarily have to be using massive lure so 100 millimeter lure gives you a pretty good opportunity to pick up some other species by catch a flanted and that sort of stuff as well. Definitely and I think Malloway as well is that sometimes I've had sessions where you're throwing big plastics the whole time and as soon as you downsize you start guessing them they can be a bit fussy with profile so yeah I think it don't be afraid to throw smaller lures. Yep okay cool cool all right so we've got the the squidgies what's what are the lures made or is that enough to we just let's add all we need. Now I'll go another soft plastic there's quite similar but it's an interesting one because Malloway fishing buddy Andy have caught a lot of our paybees on this one three inch soft plastic and we don't we're a bit spooked as to why we don't know why it does so well but it's a three inch z-man slim swim in the color watermelon red and okay we have no idea but we've Andy's caught a 96 centimeter flutty I've caught a 94 centimeter flutty on these little plastics and we've also caught some pretty big Malloway. Yeah I don't know what it is about that color that sort of turns on the bigger fish but yeah it's something that I always have in my kit that I'm ready to throw especially when the bites a bit slower. Yep yeah yeah sometimes we don't have to know why we just need to know it works. Exactly yep that's very true. All right and you have a third one man? Yeah I think Zerick fish trap can go a long way. There are soft fire especially in the smaller sizes slimming that gives off a vibration there's a particular color I really like this fluro yellow color that yeah sometimes especially when you're fishing drop-offs and there's a bit of current rearing a soft vibe can be really productive in getting to the bottom yet. Okay so as promised mate what I'd like to do is walk back through those three lure choices so you've got the squidgy paddle tail you've got the z-man slims when you've got the Zerick fish trap. Yeah and I want to talk about for the first two in particular because obviously they're lures that come unrigged so let's have a quick chat about jig heads and hooks and that kind of stuff in terms of hook sizes and the weight range that you might use in terms of jig heads what would you normally rig those on? Yeah in terms of jig heads I'd like to fish it really depends the depth of water you're fishing in you want it to get off you want it to get towards the bottom when you're fishing with mull away so I tend to fish weight classes sort of 1618 in slightly shallow water 112 or even slightly deeper water 104 but that's about as heavy as I go and I think it pays off to use a slightly bigger hook yeah so two rows because I think the slightly bigger hook if you because we're using such light gear I think they keep the line a bit further away from the danger zone and I think you probably have a better better chance of landing a good fish. Yep and I think the other thing with mull away they've been some ways are a bit like barric they tend to buff a bait they've got a fairly big cavernous mouth that's an implosion feeding sort of a mechanism and so if you've got a four inch lure and it's got just a single hook in it once this inside that big cavernous mouth there's a good chance it might come out again with that action finally it's marked yeah to the bigger the hook and the more clearance it's got from the plastic the better your chances of getting a solid hook set definitely yep and I will say as well with the jig heads I like to use the the slightly thicker hooks as well I remember years ago I was fishing one of my favorite drop offs and I had a really big mull away on for about 15 minutes and the water was pretty brown as it got to my feet I lifted up I could see my leader not and the hook straining and I never got to see the fish and it was from that moment on I stopped using thin hooks yes yep yep harsh less on the money way forget yeah slightly traumatized but yeah it's important to lose some fish too yeah that's right the lessons yep yep yep when you're starting to push the envelope a little bit too much if you start losing too many fish that's it yeah and you just pull it back a little bit definitely yep so mate let's have a talk about we'll start with the two paddle tiles because I imagine the squid you've got a bigger flatter tail the the slim swims got a smaller tail so yeah slightly different vibrations perhaps different working speed but I'd imagine you're going to use those almost interchangeably would I be right in saying that yeah definitely yeah just depending on the bite and the water yeah it might if I'm really confident that there's going to be my way around if it's prime time those prime conditions I was talking about before a couple of days before a full moon when the winds are right and the water quality is good yeah then I'll be throwing sort of bigger plastics but yeah I'll not I'll be for the smaller ones for sure okay okay so walk us through your strategy you're just fanning out casts and then moving a you do you work the the lure in different ways do you have a kind of I'm going to do five casts of a I'm going to slow roll it back and five casts where I'm going to hop and drop or what you kind of strategy when you're fishing the soft plastics oh look nothing too fancy probably what a lot of other anglers do yeah I'm a big fan of the big hops off the bottom I think we're mull away fishing probably more accentuated hops because they can fish slightly higher up in the column it I think that's why it pays off doing bigger hops but yeah just letting a lot of as much sync time as you can a lot of the time mull away will hit on the job and I think it's about always being ready for a hit yeah never assume the hit isn't going to come because you'll probably miss it yeah a lot of the time they hit on the job and I've watched relative newcomers to this style of fishing not just for mull away but for other species as well where they're working the lure back and they're paying attention as they lift the lure up and then they're not fully on the ball as the lure is dropping back down they're not ready to strike and if you think that 80 and 90% of your fish come on the drop you're missing 80 and 90% of your bites not even realizing that you're getting bites that's it if you're not paying attention on that drop so it's 100% attention 100% concentration on what's going on at your lure the whole time right yeah yeah that's it okay how many casts do you put in at a spot before you move on to the next spot oh it really depends on my confidence on the day okay um yeah I'm feeling like it's likely that they'll be there I will grind it out and put in a lot of casts over yep many hours in a pretty small zone but saying that though I'll probably do know more than 20 casts before I move walk 10 meters or something like that start again yep yeah I am always a little bit on the move but yeah okay how often do you do that sort of half at us and times and then jump in the car and move to another spot oh that that's pretty rare I like to grind it out at spots I think if I'm confident at one spot yeah I don't know sometimes though yeah I think it can pay off to drive around try another zone but then the problem is out is you're always thinking you made a mistake the angle is cursed I think yeah absolutely yeah we all know it yeah all right very good anything else we need to know about fishing those soft plastics mate yeah I think yeah just slower is better and okay I think don't rush your retrieve and also try different things, try Prawn plastics, especially around the new moon, try big curly tails, don't get locked into one thing. I know I sound like a bit of a hypocrite saying that, but my fishing buddies will agree with it. Yeah, mix it up, don't be afraid to use small plastics and yeah. Yep, cool, cool. Right, like I would have finished up talking about lures by just addressing that 0 fish trap, which obviously it's a different lure, it tend to have a fairly fast sink rate. Even you talking the smaller sizes, which I think there's a 60 and a 75 from memory is that? Yeah, I think it's the 60 I use. Yeah, and I've caught plenty of pretty decent sized fish on them, so. Yep, yeah, I think it's the vibration that works really well for these lures, and especially when you fishing sort like slightly deeper water, I wouldn't fish them in very shallow water. Yeah, I'd definitely go to my plastics and hard bodies for that, but. Yep, but yeah, when you're fishing in three meters of water and there's a bit of current running pass, fish ups can work really well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly get down to depth. I mean, most of the boat and kayak guys, this is the lure they use for tea bagging fish around bridge pylons or not necessarily the fish trap, but a soft fiber, some sort. Yeah, and it's a common lure to be used around deeper drop off. So there's five, six, seven, eight meter drop offs as well around 70 harbour and further north, very common lure and very popular with them all the way. But I suspect used less by land-based anglers than perhaps they should be, so. Yeah, there's idea of fishing them in three meters of water and fishing them more horizontally rather than vertically is really interesting to me. So in terms of the action mate, how do you work them? Yeah, it is very different to plastics. You're definitely moving your rod tip up on a lot more vertically than you would with a plastic where it's a bit of a side action, but yeah, you really. Because you're not directly over the vibes, you want to be, yeah, lifting your rod tip up above your head rather. Yeah, and then I think they definitely swim better when you do that. Yeah, and so you feel that as a vibe works and then drop and then you do it again, is that right? That's it. Yeah, yeah. Okay, and the bite let me guess comes on the drop. Most of the time. Yeah, yeah. I would imagine if it's coming on the on the left, you're going to get a pretty solid hook set anyway, and it's going to be a reasonably aggressive bite, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, it's pretty fun when that happens. Yeah, yeah. So watch out for those, but also watch that line look pretty sign as the lure is dropping back down that it's getting snuffled by a climb alone. One of the great things about the fish traps, of course, is they do work on the drop as well. So there are some soft, soft vibes out there that work really nice is you're lifting them up. They vibrate beautifully, but then you see drop back down. They just think like a stone or worse, they spiral down the fish traps work in both directions. Just because you can't feel it, you can't see it. Just keep an eye on that line. Be ready to hit the lift the rod and and wide hard to set those hooks if it does get taken. Yeah, yeah. Excellent stuff mate. Last question on the lures and then one final question to bring us home. Do you use scent at all on your lures? I do. I do. I think when the bites really slow, even if it doesn't necessarily work, it definitely gives me confidence knowing this and on the lure. But yeah, there's definitely been times where I put a bit of a factor on and especially when you're getting very timid bites that it makes a session a bit more productive. Yeah, I would recommend using scent. Okay, cool, cool. All right, mate. Now, once again, folks, remember that there is a members only version of this podcast episode with a whole bunch of extra hot tips in there, particularly for those who are fishing botany bay land based. And that's available over at team dot glues. And there's also said a show notes that are available to everybody there over at docluas.com. I think this is episode 674 or something like that. So if you zap over to docluas.com and you either type Monroe and you in our O into the search bar or you type in 674 either way, that should bring up the show notes. So been in P3 you can download a PDF you can download and a whole bunch of interesting stuff. I've got some really good articles on the website as well for those who fish botany bay about botany bay fishing spots and all sorts of stuff. We've had a number of episodes, although I think this is the first one we've had specifically addressing mull away in botany bay. So I really appreciate you coming on board for that. So that's a as I say, available over at docluas.com go and check it out and there's some tackled cheat sheets and all sorts of stuff there that will help you out as well. So Tom, this has been a brilliant conversation. I knew it was going to be a great conversation. I knew I was going to enjoy it immensely and that listeners I know will enjoy it as well. But it is time to wrap it up now and bring the conversation home. What I'd like to do and this is something that happens a lot as we've already discussed when you're mull away fishing is you have tough bites sometimes. You can grind it out and not be catching any fish. I want you to give us a cup of tips for those days when it is a bit tough mate. What do you do? What things do you change up? What tactics can you try? Apart from changing loads, you've already said cycle through a few different little styles. What else can we do if the fish are not playing ball and we just want to try and somehow rather insight that bite? Oh yeah. I definitely think the most important thing to do on those days is one, not get in your car and drive home. Yes, but catch fish from the couch. Yeah, because you never know what it's going to happen. And I think, yeah, lighten up. Just smaller jig head, smaller profile, time some smaller later and slow down your whole retrieve. And I know. And I think those things alone can go a long way in, I'm enticing a bite. Terrific stuff. Terrific. Hey Tom, like I said, it has been an absolutely brilliant chat. I know tons of people are going to appreciate you coming on board. Where can we find you on online mate, social media, that sort of stuff. So I've got an Instagram called Tom catches fish. We have underscores. That's where I post on my photos. And yeah, that's where they're firing me. And people can contact you there. So folks, we will put a link to Tom's Instagram page as well on the show notes. So if you can't remember Tom catches fish with underscores, you can always go to docluas.com and click straight through. Tom, fantastic. Great conversation. Tons and tons of great shit. Great ship. So I was going to say great tips. I've been shared and we really appreciate that. So thank you so much for being so generous with your time and with your knowledge. And we look forward to seeing you out on the water. Thanks so much for having me Greg. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for listening to the Australian lure fishing podcast for free show notes, downloads, tools and resources. Please visit our website on docluas.com or consider supporting the show by joining team docluas to receive exclusive members only episodes, tools and resources. But for now, tight lines and may the fish be with you. [BLANK_AUDIO]