Kylie on Opening Up About Pregnancy Loss, Plus-Size Labels & Being a Type C Mom with Ashley Graham | Ep. 38

Not going to lie, last week in my episode with Caleb, my collar was so drunk. I can't stop seeing it in clips. It's bothering me so deeply. This week, I made sure my collar and shirt fit better. So there's that. Let's get this podcast started. Welcome back to Not Going to Lie, a WAVE original brought to you by Liquid IV. I'm your host, Kylie Kelsey, otherwise known as the lady with four kids who talks, an enjoyer of scruffy beings. Shout out to my first love, the Philly fanatic and Irish wolfhounds. Now I have my husband. It's like a trifecta. And officially the mother of a six-year-old. Oh no. Oh no. Give me a second. I just did my mascara and queen on my nose. It took like a good amount of time. Happy birthday, Y.E.! Oh my God, that's so sad. I can't. That's so sad. It's sad and happy. Also, it's weird to be 24 with a six-year-old. That's weird. A weird phenomenon. Wyatt picked out a cake with Ariel on top. She wants her specifically with when her tail is sort of flippy at the end. And she wants to make sure Flounder's there. Also, when I was talking to her, when I was picking out decorations with her, she was deeply offended by the fact that I thought a mermaid decoration was sufficient. And she looked at me and said, I didn't say mermaid, mom. I said, Ariel. So coming up on today's episode, the Phillies' first playoff game is this weekend, which means it's the perfect time to get honest about one of the most exciting phenomenons in all of sports, Red October. After that, I'm going to be joined by supermodel, entrepreneur, and advocate for body confidence. You guessed it. Someone else I have no business talking to, Ashley Graham. But first, the Phillies have officially clinched a bye in the playoffs and their first game is this Saturday. So for any real ones who don't know the lore of Red October, I'm going to get honest about it right now. Can I Be Honest is brought to you today by our friends at Peloton. Check out the new cross-training tread plus powered by Peloton IQ. Red October, for those who don't know, is when the Philadelphia Phillies make the playoffs. It is an environment that is unmatched. Okay. That stadium, Citizens Bank Park, ends up being good vibes only. And I swear the electricity that the players can feel from the stands end up in their bats. Okay. I'm not saying that we take part, but I really, like, we might have something to do with it. A couple years ago, Jason and Travis went to Red October. We saw a couple home runs at that game. To be clear, I was at the game with Jason and Travis, but you guys know I love to sink into a hedge. So I was actually at the back so that they could be at the front. And to whoever sniped me and put it on TikTok, that was rude. I was like, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do this. And when the Jumbotron hit the two of them, I was nowhere to be seen. Because that's how I like it. The best Phillies playoff game I've ever been to was the game where I met Charlie Manuel and his wife, Missy. For those of you who don't know, Charlie was the manager of the team when the Philadelphia Phillies won the 2008 World Series. Growing up, if I met, let's say, Beyonce, I wouldn't cry. I would be excited to meet her, but I wouldn't cry. If I met Charlie Manuel, I would cry. And I can confirm that I teared up. It was embarrassing. I was pregnant, and I did blame it on the fact that I was pregnant, that I was tearing up. But in the picture, I'll see if I can send it to Queen Emma. In the picture where I met Charlie Manuel, you can see my forehead vein popping like you wouldn't believe. It was embarrassing to a degree that I cannot even explain. He is lovely, and I love him, and it's lovely. And go, Phils. My favorite Philly right now is the Philly Fanatic. Also, oh my gosh, last week, Benny was looking for something, and she said magic instead of the fanatic. And I said, you know what? He is magic. And that's how I feel about that. I'm so glad that my love of him has made its way down into my children. That's how you know it's real. That's it for Can I Be Honest, brought to you by Peloton. Next up, Doom Scroll of the Week. First up on Doom Scroll, I've mentioned being a type C mom on this podcast, but I just stumbled across a TikTok that perfectly fits me. I'm going to show you how I do it. I'm going to describe what that actually means. Queen Emma, the clip, please. TikTok made me feel so seen. The balance between having some things done very well and thought out and prepared and other things being like, no, you need to wear Crocs. I don't know where the clean socks are. Or the clean socks are in the dryer and they're not dry yet. I need you to put on sandals. Let's get this show on the road. At any given point, if you look at my car, it is the same thing. It is the epitome of a type C mom. I have a varying option of sizes of diapers. So at any given, like right now, I can guarantee you that there is at least one size two diaper, probably three to four size three diapers, two size seven diapers, and a handful of fours. Now, is anyone still in a two? No. Is anyone still in a three? No. But also, if you fold down the front of a seven far enough, it can fit a four. That's on being a type C mom. There are jackets also in the car. Because why would we put on our jackets in the house to walk 10 steps out the door to the car, which most likely myself or my husband has started to warm it up, to then take off your jackets to then get buckled in your seat? That doesn't make any sense. Next on Doom Scroll, I just discovered TikToker Betsy Kenny, who has a series of hilarious Philly ASMR videos. And I needed to show the real ones her Philly accent. How you doing, hon? What parish did you go to? Tuesday? Wednesday? Thursday? Was his brother in your grade? of those are things that I have heard or said multiple times in my life. Maybe with an interchangeable name, but absolutely things I have heard or said in my life. The slight scraping noise you can hear for our audio listeners, that is water ice. That's her white plastic spoon in her Rita's water ice. The accent, I'd give it a good 11. Speaking of Philly accents, Queen Emma is telling me that there's a new Philly show. It's called Task. It's from the creator of Mare of Easttown, who is actually from Berwyn, I believe, which is very, it's not far from us. You can throw a rock and hit it. I will watch. I do know that the beginning of the first episode, we went hard. Okay. She, the daughter has a job. The job is at a water ice place. It feels, it feels like we went a little aggressively obvious in the beginning, but from what I've heard so far, I like it. I haven't gotten that far in though. So let me, I'll get back to you on that. That's it for Doom Scroll of the Week. Next up, an incident happened recently. It really was. It was a sad day in our house and it made me want to bring back our segment, Tiny Human, Question of the Week, brought to you by Perplexity. Anyone with kids knows that kids ask a lot of questions. It's a lot of questions and it's not always just why, why, why, but it's often followed up with that. Every single one gets at least two whys. Yep. We're answering a lot of questions in our house. This, Tiny Human Question of the Week. Well, it got a little dark. It got a little dark in our house. uh, we were coming home from school pickup and Wyatt and I were walking up the front walkway and there was a butterfly and he or she was only flapping one wing. And needless to say, we took the butterfly inside. We offered the butterfly some sugar water, which it did indulge in. And then we took it back outside to lay peacefully under the bushes where it said it's goodbyes, if you will. And we had to have a brief service for the butterfly. Now, Ellie wanted to say a prayer, but she launched into something else. Um, in nature, in nature was my answer. So let's get Ellie a real answer to this question. Queen Emma, can you please pull up perplexity and ask where do butterflies live? I said in nature, it was the fastest I could think. Um, but I was stumped because I didn't know. I didn't know how deep we needed to get in that moment. She was deep in her prayer, AKA pledge of allegiance to the butterfly. So, so some other answers perplexity is telling me I could have given forest meadows, prairies, woodlands. These are great options. Um, coastal areas, including sand dunes. I did not know that. That's actually interesting. Key requirements, warm climates and sunlight for activity. Dude, same host plants for caterpillars to feed during the larval stage. So here's the deal. That would be milkweed. I know that, um, a couple of years ago, we planted milkweed to try and attract the butterflies. Now I know I can go back to Ellie and talk to her about the fact that they live many places. So I'm going to go back to Ellie and talk to her about the fact that they live many places. And we can dive a little deeper into that outside of, again, her pledge of allegiance to the butterfly. That does it for tiny human question of the week brought to you by perplexity. Now, before we get to our guests, all the real ones know this is generally a very light show, something fun to take your mind off of things. But I've also shared that I started this podcast to be able to bring attention to issues I genuinely care about. And another cause that I care deeply about is women's health. And October is pregnancy and infant loss awareness month. I will start this podcast with a little bit of information about pregnancy and infant loss. I'm going to start this segment by saying that if this is a sensitive subject for you, you may want to skip ahead. It's always available in the description of our show that you can actually click ahead in minutes to the next section. So please be advised that this is where I am going to discuss my miscarriage, which I previously mentioned on the show. But I wanted to share some more details because when I experienced my miscarriage, I felt like a bunch of people came forward to support me and offer words of encouragement or love. And in so, they divulged that they also had experienced losses. And it is interesting how sometimes it takes you experiencing a loss for people to open up about their own. And I don't necessarily think that we should always have to be prompted to share what is very, very normal in trying to grow your family. Starting from the beginning, Jason and I started. That sounds so. It sounds weird to say that you're trying to have a family because it just means that you're doing the deed without protection. That's exactly what we're doing. And after a few months of trying, without. Without success, we had our first positive pregnancy test. I say we. Jason didn't pee on the stick. I had my first positive pregnancy test. I believe it was in August of 2018. I went to appointments. Normally, I went to my. I think it was a 6-week appointment. And the baby was. The baby was measuring what would have been a few days late. And they said, it's still within normal limits. We will see you back for your 12-week appointment. And I scheduled it for the week following that, which would have been my 13-week appointment, because we had travel plans. We were planning to go when the Eagles played in London. And then follow that up during their bye week immediately after in Ireland. So we were going with family. It was going to be a time where we were around everyone. And so we. I was very much aware of the rate at which people lose pregnancies. And so I was very guarded about telling people outside of my immediate circle. And I ended up. By the time we went to London, I was supposed to be 12 weeks. And I. We made it a point to surprise Jason's mom and dad when we were there by pretending to take a photo and telling them That we were expecting. Okay. Hold on. I got this. We surprised Jason's mom and dad with a video. We also surprised Jason's Aunt Judy and his grandmother, Grandma Mary. When we were in Cleveland, we surprised Travis with little baby booties. All of these interactions. Were recorded. For like memory purposes and. I think there was the thought process was like, yes, maybe one day we'll sort of clip them together and share them. I emphasize the fact that like this still hurts after having four children because. It does. And it's okay. It's okay. For people who are still in their journey and not yet. Having having gotten over the hump. Of. Like getting to meet your tiny humans that you're making. I am so sorry. For people who are who have experienced loss and who still have gotten to meet some of their tiny humans. I am also sorry. Because it doesn't not hurt. When we got back from our family trip to Ireland, I went to my regularly scheduled 13, what was supposed to be my 13 week appointment, and I went into one of the regular rooms, not the ultrasound room, and they tried to do the Doppler. And the minute. I would say it felt like everything went into slow motion. And they could not find the baby on the Doppler. And at 13 ish weeks, they should. And the nurse that was doing it was so sweet and very quick on her feet to say like, oh, sometimes like they hide down below your pelvis. We will take you in for an ultrasound and we'll be able to find them better. I could just tell. I don't I don't know if it was like doom and gloom of like I was almost expecting it or what. But I remember being like, oh, there there isn't a heartbeat like the you didn't find one because there isn't one. I'm trying my best not to let it get to like a full gasping situation. So they quickly took me. into the ultrasound room and did, uh, vaginal ultrasound to confirm that there was. I have literally told this story so many times. They confirmed that there was no heartbeat, and they estimated that the baby had stopped developing between, I believe it was 9 and 10 weeks. So they couldn't tell me. Essentially, I had had what you would refer to as a missed miscarriage. It means that your body did not realize that the pregnancy was no longer viable. And so the shitty part is that you still have the placenta, which means you're still getting the hormones. And so you still feel like shit, and you still feel like you're pregnant. And you're not. And so I ended up. It was a shitty day. It was a shitty day because it was Jason's birthday. And I still remember my OB, of course. I speak very highly of them every chance I get because I love them dearly. And this was one of the reasons that I fell in love with them as human beings. But my OB was very calm and very supportive. And delivered the news in the kindest way that she possibly could. And I ended up, because of how far along I was, and because of potential risk with other options, we scheduled a D&E for two days later that Wednesday. And I was like, I'm not going to do this. I still remember going to the car and calling my mom, which is not a good idea when you are heaving crying in the car. But I called my mom and told her that I couldn't tell Jason because it was his birthday, which seems very silly. It seems very silly because obviously I'm going to tell my husband what happened. And I did. And it was hard for both of us. I will say that having had that experience then messed with my brain for every consecutive pregnancy. So for Wyatt, we did not share that we were pregnant until I was after 20 weeks. I, for consecutive pregnancies, waited until I was at least 16 weeks. I did not share that I was pregnant until I was at least 16 weeks. I googled almost every week what the percentage likelihood was that a baby could survive, which sounds really dark. I literally did it for Finn. The things that helped me get through it were talking about it. I am a person who is an open book, obviously. I talked about it with my mom, who also had experienced a loss. I talked about it with just about everyone. Because since that point, I have had. Friends or people that I know who have experienced a loss. And like I said, it never leaves you. And I always like to tell people, comparing miscarriages, comparing infant loss, comparing any of this between women, comparing is apples and oranges. It is scarring and stays with you in a way that is yours only. And whether you have a loss at six weeks or 13 weeks or whenever, that loss is real. So I think it's important to have people around you that understand what you're going through and who are in on the struggles that you're having and feeling. And I think it's really important to have an open dialogue with your doctors. I'm so sorry if you've experienced this. Like truly sorry. Because it sucks. And there's really no other way to say it. It just sucks. This October and actually every month of the year, women's health should be taken seriously and prioritized so that every woman going through something like this can get the care that she needs. I will be donating to some organizations that have made this their mission. And I hope that you will do the same. We're going to take a quick break here and then return to today's amazing guest. She's the perfect example of a woman uplifting other women, which we're all about around here. Guys, it's supermodel Ashley Graham coming up next. NGL is sponsored by Liquid IV. We're fully into fall here and finally getting back into a routine with the girls in school. Jason back to broadcasting and Finny still attached to me. Pretty much all day, every day. It's fine. She's comfy there. And you might be wondering with all that going on, how on earth I lock in for this podcast. And the answer is I don't, but at least at the very least, I can say that I stay hydrated. And one of my favorite ways to do so is with Liquid IV. And Liquid IV is now offering a new level of focus with their sugar-free hydrating energy multiplier. You guys, Liquid IV and I go way back. I cannot stand drinking water while I'm pregnant, but you know what I can? Liquid IV. It is so good. It's refreshing and crisp and delicious. And it's so easy because you just add it to your water bottle. And they have the most delicious flavors. My personal favorite, passion fruit. Just one stick of Liquid IV and 16 ounces of water. Hydrates better than water alone. Get focused. Ditch the glitch with zero sugar and zero crash from Liquid IV. Tear, pour, live more. Go to liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first order with code NGL at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code NGL at liquidiv.com. Real ones, I'm so excited to talk to you about this next sponsor because you already know I love my hot girl walks. And Peloton helps me get walks in year round with their amazing tread that we have right in our house. And now Peloton has the brand new cross-training tread plus powered by Peloton IQ. It's got real-time guidance that gives you endless ways to get moving alone or with your favorite instructors. The thing I love most about my tread is that it is quiet and that I have the most inspirational instructors there to encourage me for the full 30 to 45-minute classes that I'm taking. Seriously, Robin, you've gotten me through a lot. I'm so grateful. Every single time I think that I should stop, she says, don't stop. You got this. It's almost like she's in my head. Gosh, they just have the best instructors. I love it. And the track is soft and it feels good on your joints. Oh, because I'm old now and I have to consider that. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push, and go. Explore the new Peloton cross-training tread plus at onepeloton.com. She's the supermodel whose message of body confidence and inclusivity truly changed the world for the better. You've seen her walking on the Victoria's Secret runway at every fashion week, on the covers of Sports Illustrated, Vogue, and Glamour. She's also an entrepreneur with a brand new clothing line and a fellow mom. Ashley Graham, welcome to Not Gonna Lie. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I'm not gonna lie. We have actually been in the same room together. Okay. Was it really? Did we talk? Did we interact? No, we did not. Was it at a Sports Illustrated party or something? It was not. It was at? It was at the Alberta Ferretti. Oh, at the runway show? It was. Oh, wow. Wait, was it last year? It was two years ago. That's crazy. Yes, you were wearing this incredible leather jacket. Yes, I remember. That was a wild room, though. That's not like necessarily a room you run up to say hi to somebody or anything. No, and also when we went after the show, like behind, to see Signora Ferretti. Yes. I was in the midst of trying to figure out how the fuck to say nice to meet you in Italian. Oh. and i had my friend elena repeating it to me so many times that i could like i i genuinely like i had blinders on i was like i say it again say it again how do you say it say it again okay i could be messing that up if you speak italian pretend you didn't hear that uh no it's okay i i don't my husband does so he makes fun of me all the time well i i said it well enough that when i said it to signora freddy she then proceeded to speak to me in italian i'm like no no no no that's all i've got i don't know a single other word you just said you're like i'm yeah i'm like i'm so sorry i actually pizza i don't know i got nothing uh grazie i don't know wait so how often do you get to go to runway shows never literally it was my one and only so uh dear friend of mine she uh works for ifa okay and um she was like i feel like this is pulling you out of your comfort zone you've got to come to this runway show and so i ended up getting to see uh alberta freddy but i also saw uh moschino major it was so it was one of those experiences where i absolutely had no business being there but it was unreal it was so cool wait why did you have no business being there i am the least fashionable person you will ever meet in your entire life really i wear athleisure every single day of my life every single day of my life you wear a sports bra every day yes i do do you ever just get do you ever feel like i just want to put on like a bra well here's a fun fact can't wait what between children oh yeah would you've had a lot in a short amount of time yeah and i prior to children i was part of the itty bitty titty committee some would say i was the president oh like are we like talking like is that you yes that's me i was told in sixth grade that i was so flat i was jealous of the wall so there's that and um i'm laughing with you yeah no it uh so what i did have between breastfeeding children it made it clear that that had left as well and so i could literally how i could put well i'm breastfeeding right now oh because you just had a baby this year i did she's six months old i know okay but it got to a point where when i put on a regular bra and raised my arms i actually had nothing to sit in the cup to keep the bra down oh okay the visual and you're like taking me through you're welcome is there a thing that i've never had to think about before what happens when you're done breastfeeding you just get pregnant and then you're like on to the next thing oh i have four children you watch my uterus will hear you right no are you guys done are you like going are you like gonna i i i don't know i mean i'm six months postpartum i think that i'm done i think i think wow i think i never want to say no because then i feel like i'm done i'm done i feel like the universe is gonna hear me and then i'm gonna sneeze and get pregnant like you know you know those people are like i'm gonna go into because you have four girls right yes i do which is don't worry we're i'm gonna ask you about that because i do want to know if you receive it on the opposite side yes i do that's why i'm asking you because i know you should have the answers it's so dumb i know it is dumb but it's also like i get it because i think sometimes people don't know what to talk to you about yes the ones who don't have kids you know if you don't have kids or if you only have one kid you're curious about people who have multiples yes because it is a curious uh conversation and yes it's a it's a it's a sight to be seen over here that's for sure i also think that it's a tough question it it is made harder by the fact that do you think we haven't thought of that do you think we haven't thought to ourselves like what it would be like to have the opposite gender in our house do you know what i mean like not that i would not that i'm chasing it or that i necessarily need it or want it but the fact that people ask you is if it's not something that like you and your husband have probably discussed like what would it be like if a little girl entered our house that's the thing that when people say oh do you want a girl i'm like yeah i want a girl but we're done having kids like it's just there's we look around sometimes we're like there's too many children oh well you guys are outnumbered and were your twins were second yes they were so we went from one to three right away i never know what it was like to have two anybody that ever complains to me about having two i'm like i don't know what you're talking about sorry i can't help you yeah we can't commiserate i've never felt this is why i do have a question about this for you because i please i am curious people say when you go from three to like one to three or no one to two is wild and then four after three when you go to four that it's just as easy or something i have found that four is feels very similar to three and is it because the younger three just all play together and they just do their thing okay yep all right now something i am personally very passionate about is talking about body inclusivity especially for young girls oh you've got a little like a whole squad you gotta very much so and um you are the literal model of that it's been eight years since your sports illustrated cover that made all the headlines what does it feel now all these years later to be known for that and the conversation that came from it well it it's a lot of responsibility for sure and i'm proud to be a part of this community and to be spearheading so many different amazing opportunities as well it's just still so sad that there's a not a lot of plus size models b plus size curvy voluptuous whatever that word is for people because everybody likes to be labeled something different um and also the fact that brands you know in some cases we're using a lot of curvy models and now aren't same with runway same with advertising media whatever so it's an interesting place to be having seen like so much work we've done and then so much of it still kind of like not sticking for whatever reason um but i i don't take my job lightly i look at anybody who has ever given me their you know their story or a hug or a dm as like a part of my family in a sense of like we're in this together for me like i always look at everything with my glass half full and I'm a very positive person and so I just keep laser focused move ahead don't let the negativity get to me whether it's the whole industry just just saying like where's the plus size models where's the plus size fashion guess what I'm gonna go make it and I'm gonna go fill a hole that that is just becoming to get bigger and bigger and bigger guess what we're gonna go fix the issue so and it's really I mean it's amazing to know that there is such a major um community of women who are banning together they're underserved but they're banding together and they're saying we want fashionable clothes we want affordable clothes we want we want to be looked at as um as important as we are and um and I'm happy to know those women now I 've been prepping for this conversation read a quote of yours that I couldn't love more you said I hate that I constantly have to discuss my body because I don't know any man that has to do that but what motivates me to continue is that I didn't have someone talking about their body when I was young it's so true I mean what you know in in any introduction that we have it's like what at what point have you ever said and here comes my big-boned friend John it's like what really and here's my 46 pant friend Frank it's like it just doesn't happen but when it comes to women we're constantly judged on our exterior whether it's our breast size our waist size our hip size you know whether we have cellulite or not are we using Botox and filler you know how many hair extensions do you have and like did you put makeup on today it's a constant never-ending exterior judgment that is mind-boggling and you know as much as as as I want to fight against it I don't do it we're in this world of social media that has us constantly flipping and judging ourselves judging others and um and I think that has a lot to do with it but um but I'm ready for the day where we don't have to talk about our bodies in in a in a way that's like you know that that feels so derogatory in a lot of ways for me at least I do think that it feels like women are always put into boxes of like this you you you have to go under the label in which the label that was created for you and it you having these conversations you standing up for the idea that it we don't need to do that and that um it doesn't need to be negative is so important specifically for a household of four girls because these are girls who I know in my own daily life I have changed the way that speak about myself and my own body in front of my own kids. to make sure that I'm giving them an example on an everyday basis of how I can speak positively about my own body because I want them to mirror that. And I've seen examples of it, which is incredible, um, and exciting, but yeah, that's one of the best things my mom ever did was she never spoke negatively about herself. So the fact that you already know that you're changing your words in front of your daughters, I mean, that's, that's going to change everything for their future. That makes me feel excited about the fact that I, I, cause it is right. Thank you. Uh, it is a, but like sometimes it really is like a conscious effort to say out loud something more positive than what your brain is telling you. Oh yeah. Especially dressing a postpartum body. I was going to say, you've been in a postpartum body for six years. Like, so have I, my oldest is going to be six in January. And it's like, you know, your body completely shifts and changes. And it's almost like, to me, it's almost unrecognizable when I look in the mirror and, and, and having to shift my mind and even just, I'm like, golly, what's that advice I give girls all the time. Um, now you mentioned labels earlier, things like plus size, full figured, curvy, voluptuous, the list goes on. And you've said before that you don't like being labeled plus size. How do you feel about all of these labels? Is there, you said it yourself that there's like, everyone has their own preference. Yeah. I think that labels are, it's a dangerous place to be in my opinion, especially like I started modeling when I was 12 years old and to be at that time, I was five, nine, I was a size 12 and they immediately put me in a category of plus size. And I was like, well, what does this mean? And, um, it, it marked me in, and it told me who I was. And my, my whole understanding, of this world is that if you're going to let people tell you who you are, then that's who you will be. But you have to tell people who you are, because this is a mean and evil world with people who want to dictate labels and want to put you in a box, but it's your job to really figure out who you are and what you want to be and then command it. So when I say I don't like to be called plus size, it's not that I don't love the community. It's not that I'm not here writing for the community. It's not that I don't want to be called plus size. And my skinny girlfriends don't do it. My guys, friends, and business partners don't do it. Why do we need to start doing it? Just because we are, um, a much more voluptuous, curvy, you know, type of body. It doesn't make sense to me. No, it very much feels like it should just be that. I mean, as women, I think we can acknowledge the fact that the spectrum of women's bodies is so it's vast, like everyone, different height, different size, different build. Some people have, have a bigger, but some people have small boobs. That was me. You got the small boobs and I got the big ass. And here we are, girl. Here we go. You know what? Better for it. Here I am. I just, I always say I could play field hockey better. Cause I had a good range of motion. Nothing was getting in my way. Uh, but like, really it's, it's one of those things where it's like, why can't we just be like, she is a beautiful woman, period. The end done. Yeah, that's it. I know. It's mind boggling to me. It's going to be interesting to, um, check back in with you in about 10 years when your girls are, you know, wanting to put on makeup and clothes and all that stuff. Cause I remember going through that. Like I remember wanting to show my midriff off and, and, you know, pull my boobs out and, and, and do that and trying to, trying to explain to a girl that your worth is not wrapped up in your exterior, but we're here. We are like, I'm a model. It just my worth is wrapped up. My job is wrapped up in my exterior. So I have been given a privilege to talk about. Don't let that happen to you. But I've seen firsthand some of the most beautiful women in the world who are some of the most insecure as well, because you would think, uh, and I could, I could say some of the most famous girls that you would say, there's no way that she's insecure, but they are, they've got rocking bodies and snatched faces and all of the above, but they still don't have worth in themselves. So, you know, what I was saying about, you know, watching your girls grow up, it's like planning on training them to, to have no worth of their exterior is hard, but also knowing that you want them to feel good about themselves too. It's like, it's the double-edged sword. It's, it's wild. It is. It's a pressure that women, I think, face every day and, and almost unnecessarily, like it's a pressure we put on ourselves. Um, but also like you're saying, like raising girls, I feel an immense pressure to steer them in a way where they can have pride in their appearance, take pride in their appearance, but also not invest all of their worth in it. So it's hard. I can't, I can't imagine. It's going great. I'm going to keep saying that. I'm okay. Switch gears a little and talk to you about fashion and modeling as a supermodel. You of course, walk down some of the most prestigious runways in the world. Um, so as a sports fan and not a model, do you do anything to psych yourself up? Oh yeah. I mean, I'm that, I think I'm annoying backstage right before a runway show. Cause I'm like this, I'm like, Ooh, Ooh, Ooh. I'm also like the oldest lady in the runway now. Cause I'm like, I'm like there with all these like 16, 18 years. No, they must be of age now. There might be a lot now they've like 18 to 25. And I'm like, here I am. I'm about to be 38. I'm like, let's go. Let's go. Cause I'm also a sports girl. I grew up playing soccer, basketball, and volleyball. So I'm all about, you know, like we got this and they're just kind of like this. Oh, who's the crazy lady over there? Like she's getting her game face on leave her alone. It's exhilarating right before you walk onto a runway. It's a wild thing to have everybody's eyes on you and a very like, whether the music is like, or like, you know, like whatever you're giving, it's giving all eyeballs are on you and don't fall. And I've never fallen on the runway until literally two days ago. No girl. No, but I will say, was it a stumble or was it a full splat? It was a full splat. However, however, God is good. Because it was okay. Imagine a square. It was at Hugo Boston. I don't even think anybody caught it on camera. So you come out here, you go, boom, boom, boom. And like right here is like rows of people. This last bit is like, you're leaving and you're behind like equipment. People can still kind of see you if they care. And right there, it was like uneven cemented ground. And I went kerplap and it was on all fours. And I gave it like a quick, like, a bend and snap. If you will. I was straight out of Legally Blonde. And I was like, here we go. And we're back at it. And the guy behind me, I was, we hadn't spoken because he just wasn't talking very much. And then he was like, are you okay? And I'm like, yeah, I'm fine. And then I had a couple of girls come up to me afterwards. They were like, are you okay? I saw you fall. And I'm like, I'm fine. I'm fine. But thank God it wasn't in the, in like the main character runway. Yes. Because that would have definitely been on the internet. Do you know, I feel like we can apply the thought like Pixar didn't happen to this, like videos or it didn't happen. And we're not challenging the internet. We don't want to fucking see it. It didn't happen. We don't know what you're talking about. But I do think this is the perfect instance. And like, if no one caught it, the girls came up and said, you sold out the dress. That's it. It's sold out. I thought that was great. That's amazing. That is, that's honestly, that is. I always tell people, I was not nervous about getting married. I was nervous about walking down the aisle. So this feels like the fact that you thrive in that and that you just fucking turn it on and go is, I mean, in my head, it's like, look hot, don't fall, look hot, don't fall. You were busy looking hot and you didn't get to the don't fall fast enough. It's fine. Next time you'll have it. Exactly. I must have just like breathed a little too much at that point. Oh no, that's, that's crazy. That's two days ago. Now, once again, as a non-model, my knowledge of modeling pretty much is exclusively from America's Next Top Model as a teenager. Are you an A&TM fan? When I was in high school, yes. Got it. And did people say, cause like you're tall, you get those pretty blue eyes. Did they say like, oh, you should model? Yes. And then I had to explain to them that I was not built for that because I don't like when people look at me. Got it. My answer was usually like, I, I, I play field hockey. Yeah. Yeah. Like I, I don't, I wouldn't do that, but yes, a number of people were like, oh, you should. And I'm like, I probably shouldn't because no, thank you. I'm not built for that. I truly, I think that it's obvious that just because you're tall. does not mean that you belong on a runway or or a basketball court right true equal it goes both ways my mom always said like tall girls are the best because we can you know she always like she was always like reaching for stuff or like doing like something active and she's like see being tall is better like and she would also say to me maybe this is something you could use not this is unsolicited advice sorry but i remember i have this like my my butt does like a it has a side butt is what my husband calls it it's like you know this like meeting a little dip like right here yeah the hip yeah the hip dip love it i remember when i first discovered mine and i was like mom look at this what is this and she goes oh look i have it too and if you didn't have it you wouldn't fit into this family i was like oh and i took that until here i am in my late 30s and that is something i can't wait to tell my kids if my boy is so perfect if i have a voice say mom look i've got a hip dip you're like that's from mama dearest thank you now america's next top model yes yes back to that that was a big deal you know there's a lot of like that i mean that was a cultural moment i remember watching it growing up too so when tyra called and asked me to be a judge i was blown away i was like are you sure sure now one of the things that i remember most from the show was when some of the models were asked to cut their hair i don't know why the makeover part of the show was always the most fascinating i think it's because they always chose the girl with like the most luscious beautiful locks to be like shade pixie cut i know it's so drastic i know um has anyone ever asked you to do something never like that where you were like no maybe i love that i'm so glad you dodged oh my god if and if they would i'd be like how much money are you paying me because right i'm not doing this for free hell no no uh the crazy i mean i've worn like blonde wigs and when i was on broadway i had like a very weird wig on um but that's like a whole that's not even modeling um but i've never no i've never i i do remember cutting my hair into a bob and then getting pregnant and then being like oh my god i'm gonna be like pregnant and heinous and overweight and have a bob and then it actually turned out to be a wig and i was like oh my god i'm gonna be like it actually was cute so i mean again um circling back to fashion you have a brand new clothing line that's officially out today october 2nd and i'm wearing it hey i love it yes and you feel like and i get to lean into like how good it is that's so good you know yes and it's with jc penny i didn't yes it's the ashley graham for jc penny collection and it's available now exclusively at jc penny in stores and online yes tell me everything so full circle moment i i have been i was modeling for jc penny as a catalog girl like way back before sports illustrated and so um they approached me about doing a collaboration and not just any collab like a lot of people get to smack their name on something and say like did that but i've done collaborations in the past and i've done collaborations in the past and i've done collaborations in the past where the more involved i am in the design process the more successful it is because the the customer can feel it and um i said look if i'm going to do something like this like i need like i need a new creative team i i want to be able to like be in the meetings feel the fabric like design with you guys and that's they said well that's exactly what we want to because we want to do a cultural shift when it comes to plus size plus sizes and and the fashion at jc penny as a whole so um we have designed a beautiful collection that is our fall collection and we've got each season has got a new drop uh but we started a 14 we go up to a 32 and um we're starting at an ox we're going to a 5x and i'm just really excited because to have affordable fashionable and clothes that fit is you know you would think would be so easy to find and it's not and um and i'm just really happy that i was able to make things that i wanted in my own closet selfishly and things that i know have been completely underserved to women who are you know in most of my friends can't just go into a store and shop because the clothes aren't available for them so i'm really excited for the world to have a little piece of um my creative juices with jc penny well it's so exciting to know how much experience you have in the fashion world that you are a resource yourself and i'm really excited to know how much experience you have in the fashion world and i'm with all the knowledge that you have built up over the years and so to be able to know that you actually had so much in making this happen and the creation of all these pieces i feel like that speaks for itself to know that people are going to be crushing it in this collection i really think they are i'm excited i'm excited for everybody to like put their little jcp on and and strut it because they're gonna feel like a million bucks um now i'd love to ask you another question about fashion and runway i remember seeing your post about the victoria's secret fashion show last year which you made history for walking in uh you wrote when victoria's secret first reached out i'll be honest i hesitated their vision of beauty seemed narrow as if everything they created was for just one type of body and it wasn't mine what ultimately made you change your mind at that time i was it took me a long time to say yes and um because everything i do is really about alignment and making sure that it's yes it's it's for my brand but it's also for the community and that i'm making the right decision and i never want to take a job just based off of the clout or the in or the money it has to be with intention and um ultimately the reason i said yes is because i got on uh zoom at the then it would she's not there anymore but the ceo at the time and she told me she said we are making larger sizes we are going up into the g and h cups we hear you when you want you know you want to see a 4244 band and that really was a promising thing for me just understanding that victoria's secret was making the efforts to do it and i understand like as an infrastructure and like a whole and a whole company it is hard to just like boom switch the the sizes because they've got factories and all kinds of things that they have to go through the process and the hoops and whatever however just knowing that that was the case and then actually seeing the sizes go up and and change um as i shot them a mother's day campaign for them the following year um they they stuck to their promise and i was really grateful for that that's incredible and again you crushed it thank you it was really cool i got to come up from the the floor it was you know it was like boom and then you know unreal it was it was kind of like a oh my god this is happening and i'm almost butt naked what is going on i just had three children holy you're like yes watch this ass nailed it um now speaking of three children i'd love to circle back to motherhood um it's something that i love to ask all of my fellow mom guests what is the best piece of motherhood advice that you've ever received oh you might have heard this too and it's something that i tell moms and dads all the time but i always say to like the moms i always say mommy knows best and when i say that it's like your gut intuition is always is always right don't listen to your mom or your mother-in-law or your sister-in-law or your sister or da da da da da it's like or your neighbor it's like it's it's it's your child it's your gut you know what's best that's such a good piece of advice now i cannot thank you enough for coming on today it has been an absolute pleasure i want to acknowledge the fact that you are carrying a level of responsibility i think that you express that you feel this pressure to hold strong for the community that you represent in curvier plus size women and being someone who has fluctuated in size who has struggled buying clothes for height for weight for thickness all of it i cannot thank you enough for advocating for women period uh and making sure that we all have the opportunity to look and feel as beautiful as we are so and the fact that my girls get to grow up in a world where they have an advocate like you leading the way i really really appreciate it that's really nice of you kylie i appreciate that thank you for saying that of course you can check out ashley's brand new clothing line right now at jc penny both online and in store and that's a wrap on another episode of not gonna lie you can find even more clips from my longer conversation with ashley on my youtube channel on more monday i'll be back next thursday with a brand new episode follow not gonna lie on all social media at ngl with kylie listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcast not gonna lie is a wave original brought to you by liquid iv thanks to the real ones for tuning in and i'll see you next time bye bye you