Kyle MacLachlan

Hi, my name is Kyle MacLachlan, and I feel fortunate about being Conan O'Brien's friend. You know what, Kyle? How about that? Very few people get to the highest circle. Oh, wait a minute. I'm in the inner circle here. I forgot who I was for a second. Everybody's in. If all is good, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walk and lose, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are going to be friends. Yes, I can tell that we are going to be friends. Hey there. Welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. And I do. I need a friend. Just one. It's never quite happened. I'm joined by Sonam Obsession. I'm here. Friend. No. And Matt Gourley. I'm here today. Beggars can't be choosers at this point. I don't know why you're just turning us away. We're grade A friends. You are good friends. Yeah. I'll admit that. I was doing a little bit of an attitude, but it wasn't correct. Thank you. I cherish you. Okay. That's too far. It's too far. As I said it, I realized that I was making myself ill. Speaking of friends. We've got. We've got a fellow in here who's been with me for a long time, who occasionally likes to shout into the microphone on this podcast, and his name is Aaron Blair. We call him Blay. Blay, there's some exciting stuff happening, not just in your world, but in Eduardo's world as well. Yeah, that's right. Thanks for. Wow. It's such a nice tee up. I really appreciate it. Yeah. I thought it was pretty good, too. It was good. But now you've talked about the tee up, so it's less good. I'm just not used to feeling. I'm just. Thank you for the love. I'll put the knife in later. Okay. Trust me. No. I. I. I am happy to announce that Eduardo and I have a show called Blaze Arcade. We've been doing it for, I think, like a year and a half on the radio. Is it that long? Yeah. On your channel, Conan. Channel 104, Sirius XM. This is all the first you've heard of this? This is the first Conan's heard of it. Wait, I'm on Sirius XM? What is this? What is this? Go ahead. No, I'm very well aware of all of this. But yes, I know we love to portray me as out of touch. Go ahead. What's your name again? Boy. Blay. Yeah. No. And we've been doing it under the radar. You know, the eye of Sauron. You are Sauron. And we've been managing to do this show for a while without you knowing about it. And now we're telling you about it. And it's called Blaze Arcade. It's once a week. It's live on your channel, Channel 104, at 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern. And we take calls. We talk about movies. We talk about shows. We talk about video games. We've talked about books. Wait a minute. You've talked about books. Yeah. I'm a voracious reader. You know that. Yeah. Voracious. Okay. The Minecraft Story. It's a great book. By C. Everett Nerdly. Yeah. It's good. It's a good book. It's a great book. Everett. It's very dramatic. How do you like how the knife went in, finally? You thanked me so much for the tee up. It's okay. I'm more comfortable with a knife in my ribs these days. But it's myself, Eduardo, and our producer, Andrew Groose, who you love. Groose is on the loose. I love that guy. That's right. That guy. I also, Andrew Groose is a very, very physically imposing fellow. He's huge. He's really nice. He does great work for us. He is like a foot taller than I am. Yeah. And I've wanted him to write a children's book called A Groose on the Loose. That's funny. I see him every morning because our daughters go to the same school. Yeah. And there is a Groose on the Loose on the campus. Yeah. Every single morning. I saw him once at the park, and I thought, oh, the Groose is on the loose. You know what? Half the time, Andrew Groose. Takes a walk in the park. He's mistakenly anesthetized and then taken back to the woods. He's always waking up in the woods, and he's like, oh, God damn it. Pulls a dart out of his ass. This is not fair to you, Groose. Groose, we love you. You're an incredible guy. But please write that children's book, A Groose on the Loose. And then people find out, you know, at first kids are scared of you, but then they realize that even though you're, you know, a big and imposing guy, it turns out that you're really sweet and you're very good in your work with Sirius XM. Yeah. That's the end of the children's book. That's so specific. Yes. Yeah. And they get really intrigued with, you know, dynamic audio insertion and all that. We might need to work that out. It'd make millions. I think it'd make millions. So, and Eduardo, does Blay let you speak or does he talk over you? He does, actually. Okay, good, good. And that wasn't an accusation. You were about to grab the mic from him. Well, I just wanted to, we're co-hosts. I know, but. We are co-hosts. I don't know. Why is it called Blay's Arcade? Because it rhymes. If you're modest. Blay's Arcade doesn't rhyme. If you're not co-host. Blay's Arcade doesn't say Eduardo anywhere. Yeah, exactly. Explain that. Yeah. Eduardo's Arcade just doesn't sound as good. Oh, yeah. Oh. It doesn't. Yeah, it'd be too cool for him if it were that. What if you called yourself Blay-Wardo? Oh, I'd love this. What about Groose? I'd love this. Yeah, and where's Groose in all this? Groose is also, it's the three of us. We're co-hosts. How about Blay-Wardo and there's a Groose on the phone? On the loop. I mean, too. That just rolls off the tongue. I think it's great. Groose is caboose. Yeah, hey. Groose is the caboose. To be fair, this show is called Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, not Sona, Matt, and Coden. Yeah, we're in discussion. We know where our bread is buttered. We're in negotiation. I hate to bring it up, but we did do, I didn't tell you guys this. We did do an episode early on that was called Conan O'Brien, Sona Misesian, and Matt Gourley Need a Friend plummeted. Plummeted like a stone. Yeah. We brought your stock down. We brought your stock down a lot. Well, they realize that you and I don't need friends. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, we're good. Yeah. Yeah. There's a reason you guys eat alone. You don't need anyone else. Well, we're friends with each other. Oh, there you go. That's great. But no, you can be imposing, Blay, and you do have a habit physically of grabbing the mic and pulling it towards you. I'm sorry. No, no. Don't apologize for being who you are, which is a terrible person. Thank you. I like to think of you guys doing the podcast like this for a fair with one mic. We should. That would be fun. But it is. It is super fun. Why are you shouting? I'm sorry. As we're re-recording this episode. When someone yells at you, it's super fun. Be afraid. Be very afraid. What am I talking about this? There's no point to plugging this show. But Sona was on our last episode. She called in. How'd you get her? I will say one thing. I can guarantee you. We even got Sona's obsession. Oh, yeah. She's sitting right next to you. Wow. Not only that, they texted me and they were like, Blay texted me about what they were talking about. While you were sitting in that chair, he texted you. And I called in. I'm doing a podcast three inches from you. And I called in. I was like, yeah, I want to talk. I really don't have anything else. Gross. What happened was, many of our episodes, we rank our favorite episodes or installments of a thing. So last episode, we talked about our favorite apocalypse movies, our top three apocalypse movies. Right. And Eduardo, do you want to explain what yours was? I mentioned WALL-E was a top three. What about 28 days later, 28 weeks later, 28 months later, 28 years later? But Bruce, Bruce, who we've been, you know, referencing here. Well, Bruce is a sign of the apocalypse. He is. I'm sorry. He's not even here to defend himself. But when there's a Bruce on the loose, you know that it's time to put those big beans in the basement. Can I say again how much I love this guy? I love this guy. It's too late. It's not too late. It's too late. Oh. So it's insulting that I said he's a monster on the loose. Yes. And then he's anesthetized by park rangers. And then a helicopter flies him into the deepest parts of Yellowstone and drops him where he wakes up later on. And his ankle's tagged. That's not an insult. That's me having empathy for his plight. His kids are always like, where did daddy go? Helicopter took him away. Oh, my God. I will be arrested and I will pay for my crimes. We all know that. Yeah. Anyhow, Bruce was not a fan of WALL-E. He was a fan of WALL-E and started shitting on the movie. What? He never, he's never seen it. He's never seen WALL-E? He's never seen it. And then he had this insane argument that you can't take it seriously because it was drawn. Like it's an animated movie. And I was so angry. And so upset. Can I just, in his defense, that's the tranquilizer talking. When you wake up from those things and you're face down in some moss. Deep. We're talking about deep Yellowstone. You're grumpy. And then someone asks you about WALL-E and you're like, that's not in the bottom of this movie. It's not his fault. Oh, my God. We got to get him in here to defend himself. No, he really, he really needs to be here to defend himself. Well, you know, he's got, I think he's five hours from here now. It takes a while. What, the sequoias you mean? Yeah. He's got to make his way to a highway and then head south. Oh, my God. I am a terrible person. Yeah. You're awful. Bruce, I do love you. You are awful. And I don't know what's wrong with me. Because you basically are like the Celtic version of that. You are. Yes. You're tall. No, not at all. Not at all. Oh, okay. Listen, please. Incredible sex symbol. All right. Well, let's wrap this up. So all episodes of Blaze Arcade are available on Team Coco's YouTube channel. A new episode comes out every Friday. Right. And you recently, yeah. Great guests like Sona. Uh, Gourley. Matt Gourley. Gourley's going to be on to talk best espionage movies. Right. Wally. Yeah. Yeah. all guests are are booked within 300 feet by the way yeah she'll let me keeping it in-house huh um yes we'll even get you a limo i'm in the building oh then forget the limo all right well congrats guys on the show yeah and um proud of you proud of you fellas very industrious sorry gruce uh i'll pay for what i did my guest today is a talented actor you know from such shows as twin peaks and fallout he now has a new book titled fictional selves a memoir and he also has a podcast called what are we even doing that's a good title it is because it sort of sums up all of us uh i'm thrilled he stopped by today i'm a huge fan of this gentleman he's a good man tom mclaughlin welcome you the year is i think 1989 i am a writer on saturday night live still very new i think i started in 88 twin peaks is the biggest thing that's ever happened on television it's massive and we get the word that kyle mclaughlin's coming to host the show and i am so excited and i remember it was very early in the week and jim downey the genius uh head writer at the show for some reason i passed him in the hall and he goes hey conan uh want to get lunch with kyle mclaughlin and i and i i felt like a make-a-wish kid i was like what and he said i was gonna grab lunch and i went oh sure jim and didn't think you were dying yeah yeah no his voice was still changing and so the next thing i know i remember this really clearly young we're in rock forest center we walked to a thai place that's in midtown a few blocks west it's you me and uh and jim downey you could not have been nicer and i was in heaven and it was a great experience for me and then cut to later in the week there's a big twin peak sketch oh my god that was great and this was crazy again they needed a guy to i think i walk in and i'm holding chris farley who was sitting there and he's like oh my god i'm still new at the show well you were deputy andy yeah but i didn't really have a line didn't have a line but we all knew we all knew i was deputy andy anyway that is a memory that is very important to me and you were the loveliest guy and this was when if you were ever going to be a dick it was at that moment uh you were so nice and i think about that all the time oh thank you very that was a a memorable time every day there was a you know it's the week long before you you're launched on saturday and i i remember so many things about it i remember the first table read i remember going through all the scripts reading the material um and all the all the options that were available and they said well this happens because it was september it was the first show of the 15th season and they said everyone's been working over the summer so we had like a stack like this he said by the end of the season you've got a stack yeah yeah so i was very happy and that sketch was i think it was just brilliant i don't know who was it jim that head writer or was it well jim was fascinated with the show so i'm sure jim had a lot to do with it contributed a lot but it was a great sketch i thought and you were fantastic and you were holding on to chris farley no i remember you the way i held on to chris was like you know he's like hey man yeah yeah and you were like i kept pulling him back yeah no no i think a lot of people saw me holding on to chris farley in the background of a sketch and they thought that guy should host late night um yes but uh there's so much to talk about because your book fictional cells is terrific thank you i love your book and um and first of all i'm going to start by blowing the lid off a great scandal here when people promote books this is the book that i was given to read which is your book uh it's in this kind of not published yet or not available yet galley to buy galleys yeah yeah yeah but uh this is the book publishers think well that doesn't going to look that's not going to look good on a podcast right so what they do is they come up with this yes the only thing is this is a great cover it looks like a real book it's fantastic but unfortunately this is not your book this is what is it letters from the edge the stories of curiosity bravery and discovery by jeff wilson it's postcards from oh postcards yeah that's you think of postcards from the edge that's what you were thinking about yeah but i mean i'm sorry no what who is it i don't remember this says so much about the publishing business now this scam letters from the edge i know um so i'm gonna make you talk about that's the book i read yeah it's about explorations and we're going to talk about that deep sea diving i don't know it's so funny because uh first of all blay you'll admit you ran upstairs to tell me that kyle's here yes and you said kyle's here and he's very he looks very dapper and i was i got mad and i said of course he does he's kyle mccloughlin he's a vision he's like this expected yeah no i mean what do you uh what are you talking about and of course he's not a hobo who stumbled in here he's kyle mccloughlin i didn't and i that is your perspective i was just saying how much i appreciate it and i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm how great you look he's putting all this attitude on top of it that i expected you to not look great you always look great well please bless your heart never defend yourself it takes time i'm coming to the conan show i mean you gotta of course this is a big deal this is kicking off the the tour as it were about about the books we are the uh end of many book tours and the beginning of some uh you you talk about a lot of things and you call it fictional cells and the first thing i'm going to think of yourself as two people one is the confident actor guy who appears on you know talk shows maybe podcasts um and he's kyle mccloughlin and then the other guy is the shy late bloomer from yakima washington the real guy who am i talking to today yes i mean this is a whole whole thing we could talk about because i think part of the part of the reason for doing this in the and i think that's been happening so they're they are growing together finally at 67 and uh and i'm really happy about it finally because i feel a little more confident comfortable and relaxed so it's an amalgam now but i do love going back and revisiting what i call other kyle when he pops up because he's as you said confident brash why not you know of course you can play jim james but i don't have a fucking chance that's gonna happen yeah yeah but but that but the dialogue between the two of them which is something that um and i obviously i work with someone on this ghostwriter great guy and uh we talked about this in the very beginning saying this would be a really interesting way to kind of reveal all of those insecurities yeah you know and because they're they're all over the book i mean it's everything you know what i love is throughout the book dotted throughout the book and you have such great stories about your career and all these things that we're going to get into there's a dialogue between you and this other guy and they are distinct because the other guy is ambitious confident and he's always saying let's go and you're always saying well i'm not really sure come on you know let's go come on get your ass in gear and uh yeah and here's what i can relate to because i do this all the time and i've been doing it for years i'll say something my wife won't like and she'll be like what and i'll say just ignore him and she'll say who and i'll say conan he's just being a bit of a dick right now and she'll say you know what i'm not really sure what i'm you're him and i'll go he's just trying to get and and i've been doing that which is diabolical and i'm thinking that's so you know this duality is really a lot of us i completely agree i think everyone if they can if they sit back and really look at themselves and part of this is really it's therapy is too strong a word but it's really a lot of you're thinking back and kind of looking over your career and examining choices good and bad and why you made them and i think it's it's just very revealing you know and i think those two people the brash confident person that sort of believes you can do anything is really essential yes because otherwise you wouldn't step outside your house you just stand on the couch you just stand on the couch all day and eat potato chips but it's the sensitive creative other person that sort of figures out how to navigate that that i think is really that's what we really approach in the book more so it's me trying to trying to navigate situations and i go through a couple of different situations with directors particular directors that um were challenging to say the least well the other thing i just wanted to as your therapist thank you and acting as my therapist now what i noticed you better look for a new therapist what i can do it all of us together okay what i noticed is that the other voice is punitive the other voice the the kyle mclaughlin who's brash and has got an edge he's he's mean he's demanding yeah and and he's fascinating and he takes no prisoners you know what i mean he really in some of the stories particularly um i think this uh some of the sex in the city stuff yeah um when because the role was obviously chock full of all sorts of difficulties let's just say trey mcdougall um that as an actor you sort of say okay i've got a i'm really doing this you know what i mean and the other guy's saying you're fucked you know what i mean that's yeah yeah yeah he knows so i'm just like all right um and playing those two off each other was interesting because it really is about how honest with yourself are you who are you yeah and that was interesting exploration and i feel like you understand that well i i definitely agree with you that it helps to get older i agree with you so i'm 67 and i think a part of the initiative to do this was um And suddenly you're like, there's a little, peace isn't exactly the right word, but maybe like, oh, I kind of get the dynamic, who I am, as much as I did not want to be that for a long time. I'm like, so I am, you know. And part of that has actually been helped by the podcast that I do, where I've been kind of letting the silliness out because I'm basically a silly person. Your podcast is What Are We Even Doing, which is a great title. Thank you. It's been, and I had no idea going into it. It was sort of the same thing. I was like, I don't know if I have anything to offer. I don't know what's going to happen. All the insecurities are coming out. And then I just said, you know, I'm just going to jump in and have a conversation. And from that, I was like, oh, this is actually working. And I'm genuinely curious about what younger creatives are doing, you know, between actors, musicians, podcasters, anybody. And that's been really fun and really fulfilling. And I think out of that has come this a little more acceptance somehow. It's like, all right, I'm just going to tell it like it is. I mean, the whole point of a memoir is, you know, you're not going to gloss. I mean, you know, there's things you choose not to tell, obviously. And I'm pretty good at, I don't really call anybody out. Well, I call a couple of people out sometimes. But in terms of relationships, people, I'm just, I'm not there to sort of tell all, you know, gotcha type of thing. It's just like, it's more how it impacted me, really, and kind of my process. Well, I want to take us through, because you've had this incredible career. A lot of people don't know this. You are a stage actor, and you're really interested in just being a stage actor when you get this out-of-the-blue call. They're making the movie Dune. This is the first go-around with Dune, long before the current Dune movies. And you really have no chance. You're an unknown. You. Mm-hmm. You read for the role of Paul Atreides, and suddenly, you are meeting with Dino De Laurentiis and David Lynch, and then you have the role. Uh-huh. And. And it was suddenly. It was very suddenly. And what gets crazier is then you're making the movie, and this is going to be a, intended to be a massive blockbuster like Star Wars, where, and you all sign contracts. This is the first one, but you're going to be. You're going to be doing at least three, and this is going to be your career for the next decade. You don't know anything, because you're new to it all. Yeah. And so, you're like, okay, this is what's happening now. And then, you. I love how you describe it. You go off. You make the movie. It's a fascinating experience making the movie. And then, you go off, and then, you know, the movie comes out, but you're not really part of that. You're kind of unaware. Yeah. And you're unaware of what's going on. Yeah. And then, you're given the news. Who gives you the news? I can't remember. How did you find out, finally, that this movie did not go well? Did not go well. I was sitting in my dad's office in Yakima, Washington. He was a stockbroker. He was there, and I was sitting with him at the corner office, and I got a call from my manager at the time, and he just says, kind of in the book, he says the same thing. He says, you know, it's not looking good. It's, you know, I'm like, what do you mean? So, to go back and to understand why I was so out of the loop, contractually, I was not allowed to work in film or television until the movie was released. What? So, I shot the thing, 83. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We wrapped, like, September, October of 1983. Movie comes out, winter of 84. So, I've got a year and some change. And you can't do anything. I can't do anything. So, I went to New York. I auditioned for, I think I talked, I auditioned for, was it Chicago, maybe, or Ferris? What was it? Biloxi Blues, maybe, something. And just, and I'm like, well, and I went back to Seattle, and I did a play in Tacoma, you know, and just, I don't know, trying to keep busy, really. Yeah. And then, finally. Finally, the movie comes out, and the expectation is, okay, we're going to do this, and then we're going to start right away. And I could kind of tell at the premiere. We had the premiere at the Kennedy Center in D.C., and people watched it, and I watched it, and I said, boy, it's kind of hard to follow. I mean, I know the book really, really well, and I was like, okay. But it was kind of cool. What I loved about it was watching everybody else, all my friends. Yeah. So, it was fun to see Patrick and Everett McGill. Patrick Stewart, yeah. Patrick Stewart, yes, and Do This, and Dean Stockwell. But it was like, okay. And then they had the premiere in London. So, we went to the premiere in London, and that was, you know, Sting and the gang and everybody was after, the after party. The after party was very, we were at Blondes in Mayfair, Georgie Best's club, Blondes, named after his preferred person, female person. I'm sorry. Anyway. I'm sorry. Anyway, yeah, yeah. Whatever. Yeah. But it was kind of. My club was called Willing. Willing. Popular. The, but it was kind of like a wake. She said, yeah. But. So, you go there. So, you go there, and handwriting was on the wall. You can tell the vibe is. You can tell the vibe. It's not great. You know, it's interesting. I'll tell you my personal experience is Dune, and everyone's, you know, it's going to be huge. I'm interested to go. I go with, I think my brother, Luke, we went to the Hearthstone Plaza, which I, whenever I go back to Brookline, it's on Route 9. That's amazing. And it's not a theater anymore, but we went to the Hearthstone Plaza, and I go in to see Dune, and I'm, you know, one ticket for Dune, please, or, you know, here you go, sir. And they went, and this is for you, and they handed me, like, a little booklet, and I said, what's this? And I start flipping through it. It's, this is what you need to read. Wow. To understand the movie you're going to, and it starts to say, like, well, there's a spice, and there's, everyone's fighting over the spice, and there's this guy. But remember, there's two families, and I thought, I'm being given homework before I see a movie. This is not a good sign. Yeah, bad sign. Bad sign. But I had never, I've never experienced, I mean, there have been times where I've wished I had a booklet for a movie, but. Somebody's idea at Universal was, let's give them a glossary so they can follow along in a dark movie theater. Wait, I'm trying to read. Yo, I didn't even know how I was supposed to be looking at this. I think this is the Baron. I don't know. What's he doing? Wait, and he's the, okay. Let me see the family line. I think I figured it out. So. Not a good sign. Well, there was some of that in the later Star Wars movies. We talked about this where they really got into the bureaucracy of, and I thought, this is not what people watch Star Wars for. But it was, you know, and later on, and, you know, when they brought Star Wars back. Yeah. And it was, you know, like. That's interesting. We don't have enough votes from the council. You know. Didn't David Lynch. Filibuster we must. Turn down Return of the Star Wars. Turn of the Jedi, basically, to do Dune? Did you? Well, I know he turned it down. And he tells a story about going up to meet George Lucas, and he developed a horrible headache. Just from the meeting? Going, no, leading up to the meeting. And he got to the point where he actually, I don't think he may have taken the meeting. I don't remember. But it was like something was just working against him. Yeah. And he knew this was not what he should be doing. Wow. So there's a world where David Lynch would have directed which one? Return of the Jedi. The second Return of the Jedi, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would have loved to see a Darth Vader walking backwards. Amazing, right? Yeah. So it doesn't work out. Right. And a stunning thing happens. You go through this experience where you think, well, this might be it for me. Yeah. I was a complete unknown. I'm in a massive, expensive movie. It's not happening. This might not work out. But David Lynch does a very unusual thing. He immediately casts you again. Yeah. In Blue Velvet. And I think, I mean, this guy, your story is so much also David Lynch's story because it's about your relationship. That's very unusual. He bonded with you in some crucial way and knew this is my guy. Yeah. It was an amazing thing for him to do. I mean, I know unexpected maybe is not the word, but we were connected. He had shown me the script to Blue Velvet while we were filming Dune saying, you know, I want to do this. And for you to do Jeffrey. And I was like, okay, great. I loved the script so much. And the story goes in the book, you know, I showed the script. My mom was going through ovarian cancer treatments at the time. But I wanted her to be involved because she was a big part of me becoming an actor. And so I said, hey, here's the second script that I've ever read. Dune being the first, Blue Velvet was the second. What an incredible career. By the way, I can relate to some of this, you know. So, yeah. I'm like, okay. So I shared it with her. And didn't hear anything. And so I sort of called and spoke to her husband. And he was like, well, you know, when I talk about it in the book, he said, you know, she wasn't really. And I'm like, yeah, God, God's sake, what was I thinking? I mean, the script is very graphic and harrowing. And everything is like written. What you see is sort of a softer version of what was really written, you know. So, believe it or not. And I said, I got it. I got it. She's upset. I said, okay, I'm not going to do it. So I basically said, David, I can't do it. I explained to him why. And he said, I understand. And I said, I can't do it. I'm so sorry. And which was crazy because I had no other prospects. But I was like, well, okay, we'll figure it out. But I get that. I don't want to upset my mom. Yeah. It's a pretty strong. Yeah. I was 25, I guess. Yeah. And she was in this very vulnerable time. And as I said, she was kind of the one that kept doing this to me when I'd be like, oh, I don't know if I'm going to do this acting thing with these kids. She'd push you a little bit. Nudge. A little nudge here and there. And then I kind of. Then I didn't need it any longer. I was like, okay. And then she, you know, she, something she i think deep down had always wanted to maybe pursue to do something in the arts like that she loved being on stage she was an okay actress i watched a couple of yeah yeah sorry mom but um you know but she loved it she loved it you know lightning bolt just hit our podcast video yeah the night outside that's all right we're good anyway but you you make a point that doom was you know it was not a success yeah and you're in this precarious position and you now see that it was one of the greatest things that could have happened to you it led to all these fascinating projects um you know chiefly twin peaks and to get back to twin peaks um i think david lynch showed you that script when i think it was called lumber town or something northwest passage northwest passage and i think the town was called lumber town or something there was a lumberton yeah lumberton lumberton which was yeah a reference which is so specific yeah yeah yeah blue velvet had a lumberton that's right that's right okay so yeah so you can see it's plans how did you end up back in blue velvet after saying no well i oh that's honestly so it's just time went on and i and i was right i couldn't get the script out of my head i said and you know it was like nothing else is really happening and i really understood the story of that young man's journey where he would be drawn to these two different women and then the light and the dark you know and i'm trying to rationalize the two um and i just i finally said to my mom i said mom i know i have to do this and i'm gonna be okay because it's david i know it's gonna be great um so i just want you to know i've got to go forward with it do i have your blessing and she said yes of course of course so uh off we went and we made blue velvet in wilmington north carolina and it was the antithesis of the dune experience dune was huge and eight massive sound stages and churubusco studios in mexico city we were a little tiny forgotten eddie somewhere in a little stream somewhere in the middle of the south nobody bothering us and david was able to bring in something that was just extraordinary yeah and there we were here's what i remember because i want to set the table for for twin peaks because i think people have so many choices now with streaming and the line between cinema and television has really blurred yeah we live now in an era where there can be high high art uh on your television screen and so i'm trying to make it clear that in 1989 television was one thing and going to the movie theaters was another thing and then suddenly and it was a mid-season was twin seasons mid-season replacement which usually meant not not going to be the greatest show yeah um we also had this idea but it wasn't good enough to go on in the fall so it's it's you know throw these seven episodes up and see what happens see what happens and so i remembered i was living in new york and i'm living up on 96th street with my girlfriend at the time and this show is going to come on and we'd heard a little bit about it and we watched it it had a tone that was completely unique and keep in mind this is with commercials so you had this but even with commercials you were suddenly in this world and when the episode was over the first episode was over and you were like oh my god i'm going to watch this show and i'm going to be like oh my god i'm going to watch this show and i'm going to watch this show and i'm going to was over we i mean i felt like i've been hit over the head with lumber and that wasn't my right that was everybody's reaction that you guys created something that i think foretold what tv was going to be at its very best 25 years later yeah before you know what i mean it was like you got a time machine i agree someone had a really great netflix or hbo idea right now and really went for it and then got on a time machine went back to 1989 and the performances and the whole thing and people lost their minds i was one of them i mean it was really david you know david approached television and didn't it wasn't television it was another another way another canvas to work on and he he understood cinema and that language so it was never about making or making a tv show it was about we're making twin peaks and this is what it is and then we're gonna stick it on your television set yeah and it was um yeah it was it was mind-blowing and that pilot episode that first episode is one of my one of the things i'm most proud of in my career just my performance there creating cooper bringing him into that world i was really i said i i was good job i don't say that about a lot of things but for that one i was like no when i see anything i've done i i think i think you nailed it killed it anything that's other conan yeah yeah there's also a third conan we'll tell you it might be seven total but um he's delusional yeah he's well they're all they're all delusional we have to be delusional to be in this business a little bit we really do god you need some of that um your approach to cooper getting his voice right yeah and you're using some of david lynch using some of david i'm borrowing david and david one of david's things is the thumbs up david and i remember the first time on twin peaks when you just give a thumbs up i was like what the hell what is like a little kid does and um you said you just outright took that from david lynch oh yeah lifted it right from him and his voice is his way of speaking was kind of you know he's a little more like this he's montana from montana but his voice has got kind of a twang to it yeah and uh you know and it's and there's a lot of enthusiasm you know in in in what when david speaks coop yeah it's like this whole thing you know and i thought so many things about it were were just his casting david's casting i think is extraordinary yes and putting me with michael on keen the sheriff truman together because just completely the opposite energy yes yeah was again sort of brilliant there is um i think uh i remember i mentioned jim downey was a huge fan and i'm i'm blank jim downey nearly nearly gave me a heart attack you know because it's a whole thing about going back to snl yeah they don't give you the monologue until oh no no no this is a not the day before minutes yeah before yeah i should probably um can we talk about jim for just a second because that's not just jim that is that was a regular was that a lauren thing or no no no it was just institutionalized it was okay that okay i don't feel so bad wasn't no one no one in my day no one was assigned to do the monologue uh and so you didn't really get much you didn't get any credit for coming up with the monologue and everyone is so desperate to get their sketch on that that's all anyone's focused on learned to say oh yeah no no we're working on it we're it's coming it's coming and we would do that up until you know the morning of the show and of course the host is well i'm usually an actor i'm you know comic lock and can play anything it's like i'm well okay this is good i'll play this part i'll play that part but the most terrifying part to most hosts is when you have to walk out as yourself and say what's sure a thrill to be hosting saturday night live cue applause yeah okay well anyway what what are you going to say and that was the most terrifying thing and we would just lie and say it's all being worked on when it was never being worked on and then lauren would usually call two of us in sometimes it would be my i remember on several occasions it was me and bob odenkirk you know get those two young idiots in here and bob and i would go in and be like just go figure out a fucking monologue and get it down to you know george steinbrenner of the yankees and we'd go down and we'd we would have like a really thin idea and go oh mr steinbrenner get the fuck out of my ass that sucks get out of here i remember he has big world series ring get the fuck out of oh okay and we both run away someday we'll be famous and we won't have to put up with this uh but that sums it up pretty well yeah yeah so that was that experience but i think the thing that was so unusual i mean there's so many things that were fantastic about twin peaks but and when it first came out was i remembered the um attention to detail and how suddenly everyone was like oh everyone in the country was obsessed with coffee pie like your character orders some pie and just really likes the pie and this doesn't drive the plot in any way no but i remembered watching that show and thinking i bet that i don't even like pie i was like that pie and that coffee that looks amazing uh but yeah but there was there were so many elements of that show it became a whole obsession yeah and then you talk in the book about something that you thought was the death knell for the show which is abc over the summer you know because the murder is who the mystery is who killed laura palmer sure and that was on buses everywhere who killed laura palmer and you've got to tune in to see who killed laura palmer and what david lynch didn't think that was necessarily the most important thing in fact this killing is a way into this whole strange world but the network was pushing and pushing and pushing that who killed laura palmer was the reason to watch right and you think in a way they killed the golden goose yeah no i definitely think that and you know it's like this the scorpion and the and the turtle whatever it is this is their nature it's their nature they want that's right a scorpion is riding on the back of a turtle to get him across the river and then he stings the and the animal and the animal says why'd you sting me now we're both going to drown and the scorpion says it's my nature yeah i sting so it's like and that's what they did yeah and uh and so you can't you can't really blame them i mean that's that's how they're going to operate but once you remove that because it was a really powerful theme you know that that just trying to solve that and instead of sort of soft peddling that and sort of focusing on just this crazy community of people and what was going to happen there um that became the entire focus and they finally i think in episode nine of that season i remember of the second season of the second season yeah um and it's very strange because we did that we did the the mid-season replacement so we were we shot all the episodes all done in the can and then waited and then they finally put them on bang bang bang bang bang bang so we weren't filming during that process we're just kind of watching this thing go oh my god you know it's like a tidal wave coming we started right back up again like a few months after that in the fall to start filming for the second season on 22 or 23 however many we did it was kind of everything was like what's happening you know neither mark nor david were really interested in babysitting a show show running yeah and peaks they have other things they're going to do david's going to offer direct to film mark wants to direct a film so they kind of like they sort of pawn it off on well we got some writers here good writers you know but yeah but there's only one david lynch yeah and david lynch is thinking you want more of these right which is everyone's dream right and you believe that he didn't really know who killed laura palmer until it was ever his job to figure that out who it should be he never wanted to pin it on anybody yeah i remembered watching at some point and thinking i still love the show i don't think they know who killed laura palmer and the writers are just going to come up with like an owl that can transform into a native american killer who can transform into an old lady you know whatever been fantastic but in some ways the sketch that we did on snl sort of i mean that was foreshadowing yes it was yeah i mean the sketch was all about it's very clear who killed laura palmer and you don't want to know and i don't i said i don't know leo leo who you were wrestling with pulls out all the photos remember he said here's here i am here's me killing her yes here's dying her she's dying here she's dead yeah yeah yeah i'm like let's get some we'll take that under consideration how did you deal personally with overnight becoming one of the more famous one of the most famous faces in america how did you kyle mcclaughlin deal with oh my god there's agent cooper yeah when agent cooper is the guy to be yeah did you like that i mean it frightened you i was again kind of oblivious to the whole thing it was happening you know remember this is pre-social pre-anything so the only way that you knew that you were had an impact was uh the for instance the girls were on the cover of rolling stone right right so that was pretty cool right david was on the cover of time so you know there these are the indicators to say oh and also the numbers for the show were were pretty significant like 40 million people i mean it was crazy an episode yeah which was crazy but we're all just kind of driving out to van eyes you know getting in the hair and makeup trailer doing a thing you know and you know hosting snl was a big indicator too it was like but i looked at this snl it's kind of like it's kind of like an extension of my acting training it's like oh we get to go in and we get to do this thing we're writing stuff we're going to make it and it's going to be fantastic to be like summer stock right an abbreviated abbreviated summer stock so my focus is all on that not necessarily on kind of yeah what's happening in the world right now and i also talk about the fact that again you mentioned it earlier tv at that time was not you weren't lifting necessarily lifting actors out of television and placing them in movies necessarily i mean a few people were able to do that um so that really wasn't even part of it it was a ride we were working and the fact that cooper was you know he's eccentric and not you're like saying oh we need that guy in our show you know what i mean because he's going to be great you know it's like he existed in a weird i don't know kind of time warp or something yeah you know and i and i was so i was like kind of aware of that but it was very weird that the dune thing it's like crazy because you have dune disaster blue velvet wow interesting independent like very independent film not liked by everyone but but certainly you know but critics loved it yeah then you suddenly had twin peaks which was we loved this show that was kind of for everybody you know so it's this weird kind of sequence of the things that i did with david um i'm not sure where i'm going with the story but it's just like weird very specific question which is there's a moment that i've always wanted to ask you about i don't know the specifics but i think agent cooper's talking to michael on keen and you guys are having a back and forth the conversation's over and you reach over and touch his nose and go boop and i remembered being in front of the television on 96th street in new york fifth floor and seeing you just reach over and go boop and then you're like oh my god i'm not sure where i'm going to go and then moving on with the scene and i was like what the fuck was that but is do you remember that moment yes i do and was that a was that you was that david what well i mean it hit i think it was nothing i think it was david in television before yeah i don't think i had seen anything like that i went over i just like we were talking mike we were sitting next to each other and i just went and i think david may have said because he'd be right there next to the camera this is pre-monitors yeah he right here he said he said kale tweak his nose i'm like and uh yeah and we just kind of and and it was kind of fantastic i mean it was we just did it for and it was like it really it was like an indicator of just kind of the affection that these two guys had for each other like we could be silly a little bit and then we got to get back down to business you know what i mean but it made a really nice spectacular because agent cooper's so by the book but he does like pilot but then he's also like that's his idea of let's get crazy for a second i remember uh i'll credit this again to jim downey but jim downey had read an interview with david lynch and there's the bad boy character who's oh dana ashbrook yeah bobby briggs bobby briggs yeah bobby briggs bobby briggs uh is you know the first one they suspect he's this bad boy and he went out with laura palmer and he's walking around his leather jacket and so that's a great job and so yeah and so you guys bring him in for questioning and this is genius but this is what this is what uh i heard is that david lynch said to the actor okay your girlfriend's dead and they're questioning you and you're like might be a suspect and that's not good but also you're getting a lot of attention so just keep that in mind too like you're getting a lot of that's a good you're getting a lot of attention and i thought oh my god what a great direction yeah and that that's something real people have which is i'm in trouble but also i'm kind of the focus of attention right now yeah so that was a very david lynchian i think direction yeah i think dana inhabited that so well because there's a certain cockiness that he's got yeah in that moment he knows he's innocent but he's at the same time he's kind of as you said there's a swagger there yeah that came with that direction and not maybe not necessarily wouldn't have been there if he hadn't said that he would have been more of like oh my god the deer in the headlights and in the interrogation that scene you're talking about i remember we did a couple of takes and he he was getting you know dana was getting and as cooper i was like and let me tell you and i started to match this energy cut and david says we'd have a minute and he says just go a different way with that you know just just bring it way down it's like he goes high you go low yeah yeah so i was like okay let me try that yeah so we go back in and he does that and that's where that kind of little moment where he's going crazy and i just look at him and i have this strange little smile that comes on my face which is david that's what david would do yeah and uh and then i turned to mike on keen and i you know like so we hold all the cards right and i just said and again it was lynch just planting a little seed a little perfect little moment there uh the show the show uh huge success but then like all things you you know solve the murder the fevered breaks the show goes into a weird the abc starts moving it into weird time slots which to this day makes sense you find yourself back okay i'm back in it now i gotta i gotta go find the next thing yeah and i didn't know this um this is another thing we have in common we were both up for the role of dr derrick shepherd on gray's anatomy excuse me um you were up for a role of the shepherd was that in the christmas play in a show called gray's astronomy shepherd who looks at the sky and knows where to take the sheep um no they said that you didn't have the appropriate smolder yeah well that may have been me sort of coming in and reading the scene and going oh this is going to be like uh this is like a you know meet cute and then gets heavy really quickly you know that first scene we read and i was like i was like i don't know how to do this i was just like you know yeah you know and i i gave it a my college try but i said no i don't think it's going to work i think i'm just too weird yeah you know patrick dempsey was great um he smoldered like with the best of them yeah he's still he's still smoldering yeah that guy he's actually uh inspect if you won't let him here smell him they won't yeah somewhere in the building wherever he goes he sets off smoke alarms um rolling stone had a quote about you which is the boy next door if the boy spent a lot of time in the basement which is such a great great quote yeah and it's it is this quality that you can inhabit really well and i think at a certain point a lot of your your life last 40 years has been seeing i think we all think well i'm not just this and i need to go do that and then maybe again i'm talking about getting to a certain point in life but there's this contentment with well i do that pretty well and what's wrong with that yeah as opposed to i need to prove to people that i'm a ballet dancer you're really not to go. Um, it's a mix of that, you know, because I think, I think you're right. I think there's both an acceptance of those qualities and the things that you've done that are different and quirky. And what's happened is I've been going, you know, I've been around doing this for so long that other opportunities have kind of come and I've been able to like do these sort of different roles. They're always a little bit off, you know, I'm thinking of, um, Hank McClain, of course, in, in, in fallout right now. So yeah, he's got, he's got stories and histories and he's, he's complicated, but I really, I'm okay with that. You know, after we talked about the Top Gun story where you straight ahead, American swagger, let's go, you know, I'm like, I don't really do that, you know? And then, so I've just, as you said, I've sort of, we've kind of accepted, this is what we do. Yeah. We do it pretty well. Yeah. And we get to do other things with sort of within that same kind of arena. Yeah. And that's really fun. You know, you keep exploring yourself as an actor, which is pretty cool. Now, while you were writing this memoir, David Lynch dies. Yes. And that just has to be an incredible blow because you have this symbiosis with the man. Yeah. I remember the moment that I heard and I couldn't, he was in, not in the best of health, but we had been, we'd spoken like a week. A week earlier, I think with Laura Dern, because a lot of times Laura and I would go, we'd pop by and we'd sit, you know, on his back porch and we kind of just talk about stuff and reminisce. And he was always like, now I've got this idea, you know, and I think we can do it. You know, we were always trying to figure out a way to do the next thing, you know? And suddenly that just stopped. Yeah. And loss is weird like that because I don't know how to describe it necessarily, but there's an echo. So you hear it and you go, Oh my God, he's gone. And he's like, but is he really, you know? And then you're like, no, no, he's, he's, he's gone. I can't, I won't hear that voice again. But then I'm like, yeah, but he's still down at his house, right? He's still puttering around down there. And that sort of stayed with me for a while. And I mentioned it wasn't until the house was on the market. There were photographs of the house. They were selling the house, David's house, his compound actually. And I went through and I was looking at it and going, David's not here. David's not here. And I was like, yeah, that's what hit me. Yeah. And I think, someone recently said, it's the end of a conversation. That's the, you know, if you really want to know what loss is, the, the other person isn't there, that other voice. And, uh, that hit me. I was like, well, that's exactly what it is. That's really, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Um, and it's funny cause now clearly all these other projects came from Twin Peaks and you got to be, I mean, I'm constantly watching scenes of all the different projects that have had agent Cooper in them. And, and I keep thinking to myself, this doesn't ever have to end really. You know, I don't think, I think there could be, I know you participated in a Twin Peaks festival. Is that, or you just went by? I went, I went by, I went up and just was kind of around and, and went to a screening and did all sorts of this stuff. There's so many, the fans are so endearing, you know, and they care so much. And I'm like, I gotta go. And again, that's all, that's part of the journey. It's part of my growth. I think, you know, initially I was like, oh, it's fine. Twin Peaks. Okay. Yeah. You're sort of like, yeah, I did that. And now I'm doing this and I'm doing this, these other things here, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And gradually you realize, no, this is actually of great value, you know? And I think that with maturity and eight and growing up a little bit, you're like, oh, I, I want to embrace that more, you know, and I have this too, but I want to embrace that. And, and, and with that embrace the people that, that it really has affected, you know, and that's part of what that was going up to North Bend and participating in this weekend of, you know, Twin Peaks festivities. Yeah. It was really fun. Did they say, okay, you got to put some jet black in your hair and have a cup of coffee with you? Eat this pie right now. I'm not a huge cherry pie fan, but I know, I know sacrilege. Um, yeah, it's like Groucho Marx saying, I don't really smoke cigars. Uh, well you're just, this is a delight for me and we've just scratched the surface. There's so much else we could talk about, but I do encourage people. The book is really spectacular and, uh, you've done a brilliant job with this fictional selves is the book, uh, by Kyle McLaughlin and your podcast. What are we even doing is, uh, is a joy as well. And I'm just, it all worked out because I met you in 1989 and I thought this, God, he seems like a really nice, cool guy. And then here we are all these years and lifetimes later of all these different things happening and you're that guy. And it's, it's just nice. They say, don't meet your heroes. I'm like, no, no, no. Meet your heroes. There's a couple you shouldn't meet, but you're one of the, uh, one of the really good ones. So thanks so much for being here. Very nice of you to say Conan. Thank you. That's very sweet. You've, you've always, you carry your heart in a really beautiful way with all the other stuff going on, but you're brilliant. You're brilliant. But deep inside here, that's, that's, that's the real, that's the other guy. That's not me. That's the other guy. We've, uh, recently dipped back into the refreshing waters of voicemails. You know what? It's a new technology. I'm excited about it. This is people calling into us and then we're somehow able to record it and then keep the recording. Oh, now I understand it. I've never had it explained to me. Yeah. And then we can play it back and it's as if they're asking us in real time. All right. Eduardo, hit it. Hey guys, this is Zach in Fargo, North Dakota. And I have a question for you. Where do you think this world is going? That's it. It just ends there. Oh my God. This is a real existential. Can I just say, this sounds very much like he's in North Dakota because when you spend a lot of time in Fargo, I'm sure sometimes you look around and just think, where is this all going? Zach, I hope you're okay. And we don't have to take this on the, like into a dark place. It could just mean whatever you want it to mean. You know, where is this? You're right. I don't think he meant it in a dark way at all. Maybe it's just going around the sun. I think we need to do a welfare check on Zach. Make sure he's okay. I wanted to hear more of his Fargo accent. Oh yeah. Just me? Nobody else? Hey Wade, this is my deal here, Wade. Yeah. Hey, that's good. I mean, I just am going off of Fargo, the movie. That's all of us. We just do that. One of my favorite movies. It's amazing how many of my favorite movies are Coen brothers movies. It's absolutely kind of incredible. They're the best. They might be the best actually. Too bad they split up. You know, they're not making movies together anymore. Did they? I didn't know that. They don't really do movies together. They kind of do their own thing now. And that's why you're not, maybe you're not talking about them as much. What the hell? You took my, I love the Coen brothers and no, I'm not going to have you slam them in any form. I'm not slamming him. I'm just saying. Why'd you take us down this road? Right to, Hey man, the Coen brothers broke up. The world is going nowhere because of the Coen brothers broke up. No, they didn't break up. I'm sure they'll get back together again. I hope so. They're brothers. Brothers can't break up. The Gallagher brothers. Oh, they got back together. They did. Yeah. Yeah. We went to their concert. We did. I don't know. I'm stunned. Stunned that you took this voicemail question and went this way with it. Now we're talking about the Oasis reunion. You are, you're just a train wreck. That was a train wreck. I stand by it. I stand by it. Wait, was this question, where's the world going? I forgot what his question was already. Yeah. Well, I don't blame you after this discourse. That is the most vague question and you can answer it however you want. I chose the Gallagher brothers. How would you like to do it? I don't know. I know that the way you did it was wrong. I do know that for a fact. Wrong for you. Eduardo. I agree. Yeah. Thank you. It was weird. Terrible. Here's the news flash. I'm not asking for approval. Yeah. Thank you. Own it. Own it. And being from Fargo. Right. Like, how are we not supposed to talk about the Coen brothers? Exactly. But we're, I mean, I guess Zach is just wondering where it's all going. And, you know, I, I, I don't know that we, we can avoid that question. I know you're very much trying to avoid that question. I don't want to talk about the real sad things anymore. Why does it have to be sad? Good things. Yeah. There's good things. Let me hear. I'm all ears. I'm a 52% optimist. I recognize all of the problems that we have, but as a history buff, I know that we have always had problems. Always. And when I always ask people is, well, why don't you tell me when the good old days were? And if you, if someone names an error, I go, nope. And then you talk about all the bad things. I can do it. Go ahead. First time the Gallagher brothers were together. Oh, the nineties. Oh man. We're pretty sweet. Don't look back. You're the worst. Wonderwall. That's also when the Coen brothers were hitting their stride. Gargo, big Lebowski. It was the era of the brothers. Stater brothers was at its prime. Oh, Manny Moe and Jack. Come on. Okay. I'm an optimist too. I'm with you. Yeah. Slight optimist. You have to be an optimist if you have kids. But give us an answer. Yes. Yeah. What's that? Give us an answer. Where's it going? Where is the world going? What do you mean where it's going? It's going where it's always been going, which is a day at a time. We crawl our way there through the darkness. We get there, but that's, that's where we're going. And so, um, we will, we must persevere. We will persevere because we must persevere. That is my belief. and we have to we have to we have a lot of problems and we need to address them and figure them out and that's what we must do so that's what we will do i do wonder if i've taken a lot of pills you have yeah you seem very medicated i do wonder if one day my boys are one of them is going to be like mom i have a girlfriend and it's going to be like an ai chat oh certainly no don't say certainly you can bet blay has one you know like it's certainly it's already happening why is it for blay yeah just kidding blay was doing this long before there was ai i when i first met blay he introduced me to his girlfriend and it was a magnavox television shoved onto a mannequin no he is a very lovely girlfriend he does have a lovely girl and he's doing his civic duty and doing jury duty right now so yeah that's why he's not here defending himself but because he's not here to defend himself uh yeah years ago first girlfriend mannequin with the magnavox tv yeah um i said it was a long time ago yeah um listen stay the course zach uh better times are coming and um and don't look back in anger oh my god i love you doubling down on it he's so angry it's just making him so mad i'm just walking down the hall faster than a cannonball i thought it was i thought it was faster than the cholesterol lowering drug pravacol don't do your remix of one i like the jake gyllenhaal version i know i used to i used to work faster than jake gyllenhaal no one can fuck up a great song like me you are the best i love putting my own stupid rhymes in there um and that's where the world is going and that is where the world is going hang in there zach i will if you will be strong conan o'brien needs a friend with conan o'brien sonim of sessian and mac gorley produced by me mac gorley executive produced by adam sacks jeff ross and nick leo theme song by the white stripes incidental music by jimmy vivino take it away jimmy our supervising producer is aaron blair and our associate talent producer is jennifer samples engineering and mixing by eduardo perez and brendan burns additional production and production by mars melnick talent booking by paula davis gina batista and brick khan you can rate and review this show on apple podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode got a question for conan call the team coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message it too could be featured on a future episode you can also get three free months of sirius xm when you sign up at siriusxm.com slash conan and if you haven't already please subscribe to conan o'brien needs a friend wherever you get your podcasts from conan o'brien sonim of sessian and mac gorley your fine podcasts are downloaded