Kwasi Adusei - Psychedelic Month of Service

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Psychedelics Today. This is Joe Moore. Today on the show, we have Kwasi Aduse joining us. We get to talk about the Psychedelic Month of Service, which is a cool concept that Kwasi helped develop and is promoting through the Psychedelic Society of Western New York. And we get into some really cool conversation about that, why it's good to do service as a psychedelic club or organization. And it really helps bring down stigma and bring your local psychedelic community closer together. When you do service together, there is a bond that gets formed and it really does help. We then get into some interesting conversation about race and psychedelics and actually some clinical stuff because Kwasi is a registered nurse and is going for a doctorate of nursing program. And she's going to be a doctorate of nursing for the rest of her life. And she's going to be a We get into the specifics of that education program in the show. It's pretty awesome. We had a great time chatting with him and really can't wait to have him on the show again. So hope you enjoy it. If you want to hit us up, psychedelics today, email at gmail.com. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest, LinkedIn, LinkedIn. It's a funny one. And now for some business. Kyle and I decided to run another book giveaway contest. We're giving away a ton of stuff here and a lot of stuff. And we're going to be doing a lot of stuff. So all you have to do is give us your email. You can sign up over at psychedelics today.com. It's called the ultimate psychedelic book giveaway, probably close to $350 worth of stuff. Let me read off the list of stuff you can get here. Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss, Dennis McKenna, LSD, My Problem Child, Reflections on Sacred Drugs, Mysticism and Science by Albert Hoffman, The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide by Fatiman, P-Call, A Chemical Love Story by the Hogan, LSD Doorway to the Numinous by Groff, Adventures of Self-Discovery by Groff, Healing Our Deepest Wounds, The Ultimate Journey, When the Impossible Happens, and Holotropic Breathwork, all by Groff. And that last one was co-written with his late wife, Christina. And you get a seat in our class, Navigating Psychedelics, Lessons on Self-Care and Integration. More on that soon. You also get a Psychedelics Today t-shirt and mug. Yeah, we're roughly guessing this is about $350 worth of stuff. If you want to sign up, check us out, psychedelicstoday.com, and you'll see the link for a giveaway. You'll see my face with holding some books. You just click that and you get there. The more you share, the more you increase your odds of winning. Some folks have shared it all over Reddit, YouTube, various forums they're in, and it really has increased their odds of winning. So we'll email you a link after you sign up. You share that, the more people that sign up through your link, the more chances you get to win. The contest ends January 1, so make sure to get your entries into the contest before then. Best of luck. If you are interested in doing legal psilocybin mushroom work in Jamaica with an expert, you really want to go check out Eric Osborne. You can find him at mycomeditations.com. Coming up in late November, I think right after Thanksgiving, you can go down to Jamaica, work with him, and do some serious inner work on yourself. Mushrooms do allow really great access to your inner light. You can go down to Jamaica landscape and doing it on the beach in a beautiful environment in Jamaica is a great spot to do it. I really do recommend Eric Osborne, and you should check out a couple of our past episodes with him if you want to get a feel for him personally. I really do appreciate what he's doing and can't wait to get down there. Coming up, yeah, this November retreat will feature Catherine McLean, PhD, and Shane Moss, the comedian. There's also another comedian, don't know the name, but you should check that out. I'll see you next time. out on their site because that could be really special. Catherine's going to bring a lot of information about psychedelic safety and integration practices. Shane is going to talk at length about his healing process and explorations through psychedelics. The last podcast we did with Shane, Eric helped us there. It was really fun because Shane got into a lot of the funny, great parts of psychedelics and also some of the scary parts. Having people that have that knowledge available to help guide you through this stuff is great. Eric's been doing this for an incredible amount of time, so he's a pro. What's the thing? 20,000 hours. Whatever that rule is of you put in so many hours of practice to get to this expert level. He's at about master level, so you're probably going to want to check him out. If you don't want to go do Ayahuasca in Peru your first time, maybe you want a shorter flight from the US or Europe and you don't really see the need to go up river in a little boat, maybe this is for you. Again, micomeditations.com or there mycomeditations.com. If you have any questions about it, feel free to email us psychedelics today, email at gmail.com. Hope you check it out. Today on psychedelics today, we have Kwasi Aduse from the Psychedelic Club of Buffalo. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. Can I make a comment? Absolutely. So the Psychedelic Society of Western New York. Thank you. So the Psychedelic Society, the Psychedelic Society of Western New York. Thank you. Yeah, Buffalo is a very specific spot. But it's cool to see how much you guys are doing like all over Western New York. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So I actually started off as the Psychedelic Society of Buffalo. And, you know, as we did events in Buffalo at different festivals, people showed interest in having it closer to them. And so we essentially expanded and now we have sort of a chapter in Buffalo, a chapter in Rochester. And then a chapter in Batavia. And then also in Niagara Falls now. Oh, that's fantastic. And what's interesting to note, most people might not realize that you are actually really close to Toronto. So there's probably some cross-communication there and probably some really cool collaboration you guys are doing. Are you guys putting on events together at all? So Bradley Foster, who runs the Toronto Psychedelic Society, we've been talking about quite a bit. One of the things that we discussed was potentially doing a small scale Zendo style sort of training in Toronto since we started that in Western New York, pretty much scaling down the Zendo model to festivals that, you know, are 3,000 people, 5,000 people, 6,000 people, as opposed to 20, 30, 40, 50. And so just kind of talking about the way that we did things. And how you can sort of adapt that model to something that's, you know, a little bit more relevant to the sizes of the festivals in their area. Yeah, that's awesome. So, yeah, let's actually, before we get too deep on other stuff, talk about the Psychedelic Month of Service. Sure. Yeah. So you came up with this idea with a few others and are working to put it together. Can you tell us what the concept is? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So when we started the Psychedelic Society of Buffalo slash Western New York, you know, we ingrained community service into the model right off the bat. So I have a lot of background in community service. And so it seemed to just make sense to include service as in part of a psychedelic society. You know, when you ask the question, what would society look like if it were to be more giving, right? Probably be a little bit more generous of time and compassion. And so we started doing a lot of different things in the community, sort of breaking away from the typical educational events when it comes to psychedelics and, you know, getting a little bit more hands on doing community cleanups, working at soup kitchens. And so what it's done for us in Western New York is it's sort of engaged us with the greater community, where we we've been able to sort of come out as a group and not stay within this silo of psychedelic organization, but rather be able to get connected with, you know, other community organizations that have nothing to do with psychedelics necessarily. And so, you know, some of the events that we've been a part of, we've had the mayor come, you know, we've had, you know, the director of journeys and refugee services come to one of our events where we did a fundraiser for them. And so it's put us in touch with the greater community in really positive ways. And it's been able to make us, allow us to say, yeah, we're doing this for psychedelics, but we're doing something positive that means something to you. It really resonates with people. So the global psychedelic month of service, it was essentially adapting that idea and, you know, giving people a little bit of a nudge to say, hey, maybe try this out in your community, do something for your local community. Whether you're in Ireland or you're in Australia, you're in California, you know, there's a lot of people out there. And so it's been a lot of fun. There's a need in your community that requires some sort of attention. So as a psychedelic community, why don't you tackle it? Right. And even if you're an individual, this is a great way to come out of the psychedelic closet. Right. So maybe you're not an organizer. Maybe you've never done anything in psychedelic community, but you're looking for an opportunity to do that. What a great way to do this by volunteering at a soup kitchen and telling them, hey, I'm doing this for the global psychedelic month of service. Right. Um, I want to show, uh, bit of a, uh, sort of commitment to the movement. Um, and I want to be able to step out of my comfort zone a little bit and, and show people that people who do psychedelics, you know, aren't bad people. Right. Um, so ultimately, um, the goal is transforming those feelings of interconnectedness that we get from the psychedelic, uh, experience into actions of connectedness. I love it. When we met at, uh, Horizons and you're telling me about this, I was just like blown away that, you know, this is, I think it's a really great idea. And I don't really know too many people that are doing this, maybe besides like the maps, global psychedelic dinners. But I think the volunteering thing is so huge. And, you know, I think you mentioned like, you know, you could even go to a park and just do a park cleanup with a group of folks. And I was like, wow, that's, this is such a great idea to like get the, the, the larger. Massage message out there, but also, um, you know, help the community get involved. And I'm curious, what was the feedback like from like the mayor that attended? Was there like, wait, you guys are part of a psychedelic club? Like what's going on here? Um, well, it was interesting. Um, so we went to a church, it was around Thanksgiving. And so we were, it was, they were, this church was giving out, um, toys and giving out free food to members of the community. Um, and so we went down there to, uh, sort of offer a hand and we helped out with, um, serving the food. And, um, there's a picture of it that I'll send to you later. Um, so the mayor was, you know, kind of doing his rounds essentially. Um, he is friends with the people who run this church. Um, you know, he, he's got a great connection with them as a community organization that does a lot for a lot of different people. Um, and so it was an awesome opportunity to sort of talk a little bit about why we were there as volunteers. Um, we, his, um, the city controller afterwards, um, gave me his card and was interested in talking a little bit more about it, which sort of blew me away. Um, and so I think it was awesome to not get a pushback and getting curiosity more than anything else, especially considering how taboo and how stigmatized this is, you know, and that's, so that's also something that I've always, I've been very careful about too, is when I'm talking to people who, are, um, you know, in these positions of power who are, you know, executive directors of this or that, I never bring up the stigma. I just talk about what we're doing. I never say, you know, we're doing this because psychedelics are stigmatized. You know, you want to try to break, no, I just say psychedelics are something that's, you know, have played very impactful roles in people's lives. Um, the science behind it is amazing. Um, what I'm finding is if I don't mention the stigma of psychedelics, I'm not putting the stigma of psychedelics in their head, right? You know, um, you're just talking about the science of it. You're just talking about how meaningful it is and people are going to be a little bit more receptive as opposed to saying, you know, psychedelics are stigmatized. Like it's got a bad, don't say any of that because you're just reinforcing something that we don't need to be reinforcing. Um, and so the response has been great. Um, you know, the, they've been less focused on the psychedelics themselves. You know, it's always an opportunity for us to educate and talk about what we're doing and why we're doing it. Um, they're really appreciative. Of just that, the work that we're putting into helping out our community. That's awesome. Yeah. Uh, so can we talk a little bit about how this is going to work? So, uh, it's all throughout the month of November and, um, like how would you suggest people getting involved? Um, so there are a couple different ways. Um, so there's different levels. The first level is you yourself want to volunteer. Um, and so you can simply find, um, a local organization. So volunteer match.org, um, is a great resource because you can put in your location, um, say where you are, if it's in, you know, um, grass Valley, California, or if you're in Denver, Colorado, um, it'll find some community resources where that need help. So that's what made you do it. And then you can talk to a couple of your friends here and there and say, Hey, we want to volunteer. We've got three or four people. What do you have for us? And then the organization will pretty much handle everything. Um, from there, then there's a second way, which is sort of taking a little bit more leadership. Um, you know, comparing this to the global, um, psychedelic dinners, you know, where maps had a call to action for people to organize events, um, to fundraise for the MDMA study. It's the same idea. So organize events for your community. Um, for me personally, it was the global, um, psychedelic dinner that predicated the psychedelic society of Buffalo. So I saw the call to action for the, um, psychedelic dinner. So I hosted it, huge outpouring of support. And so I started the psychedelic society shortly after. So with the same idea, you can do a global psychedelic, um, month of service or an event for it, and then use that to sort of start a community around psychedelics. Um, and so I've been giving my email out for people who are interested in doing that, you know, so I can work with them a little bit on, um, coming up with ideas that are, you know, geographically specific, something that can cater to their specific needs. Um, for example, I've been talking to a couple of people from New York city who are interested in it. And because of the, you know, homelessness issue in New York city, you know, we talked about how they can create, um, homeless, um, care packages that include things like socks and water snacks, resources to food pantries and shelters, and then, you know, do a drive for these items, bag them up and then go and give them out, you know, so there's different ways where we can work together to find something that's geographically specific. Um, and then there's also being able to connect with, um, uh, society in your area that's already doing this. Um, and so when people email me, the first thing that I'll do is see if there's a, as an, if there's an area in their community, who's taking a part, taking part in it. If not, then we can, if, if they're interested in taking on some leadership, we can then, you know, walk them through creating an event of their own. And if they're really just interested in getting involved, um, on a small scale level, we can then walk through the process with that. That's awesome. And, um, you sent us a little flyer and I see that you have some volunteer, uh, like maybe guidelines are adequate, adequate, um, for it. Um, so I guess maybe I'll just read it off since I have it up. Is that cool? Um, so do not take pictures without consent of underprivileged populations, avoid making this a selfie moment, which I think that is awesome. Um, this is about supporting those less fortunate than us. Uh, if possible, take a picture of your volunteer group, either before or after the event, it is important to maintain the privacy of those we will serve and be mindful that you are representing the global psychedelic community. So be respectful and professional. Awesome guidelines. Right. Very important because, you know, I think especially the selfie moment component of it, you know, because there's sort of two sides to that one, you do want to show people what you're doing. You do want to promote what you're doing. Um, you know, because part of this is, you know, getting that word out there coming out of the psychedelic closet. Um, and then also showing that, you know, psychedelic users are good people. I think the psychedelic experience imparts certain values on many of us, um, values that include, you know, taking better care of each other, taking better care of ourselves, taking better care of the planet. Um, and so, um, you know, in order to sort of help bring people into the college, people need to see that it's happening. Um, but then, you know, the other side of that is, you know, of course not taking advantage of, you know, the disadvantage, right. Um, violating their privacy in any way. Um, and then the professional component, um, you know, showing a lot of respect to the organizations that you're, you're doing this, um, with, um, I, you know, when I was in undergrad, I was part of a community service fraternity. And so a lot of these, you know, principles kind of come from my experience with that. And of course, like develop good relationships and maintain those good relationships. And I think these volunteer etiquette, um, uh, guidelines are a really good way to do that. Yeah. It's wonderful. I just really appreciate the selfie moment. I was watching like all these, like, I don't know, YouTube videos last night, like pranks and stuff like that. I'm like, wow, like people do some really dumb shit and also really good stuff. And I think that's, I think that's good stuff, but they do it for the likes, you know, it's like, oh, what can get me like really out there and, and how, what can I do for the likes? I'm like, man, that's like kind of what we've come to as a culture with social media and all that. So yeah, I think that's really important to just do it for the better good of other people. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Awesome. Um, anything else you want to talk about? And I think, you know, we're raising awareness for November, but you have December, January, February, just continue to do it. But, um, yeah, anything else you want to, uh, throw out there for this kind of campaign? Sure. I mean, on that point, that's, that's really the major thing. Um, you know, this month of service is essentially sort of a kickstart, you know, just, uh, an opportunity to really get into it, but, you know, just really encouraging that people continue to do it. I'm really encouraged that people make this sort of a, a regular aspect of their lives. You know, when it comes to community service in general, you know, helping other people is, um, can be like an integral component of being happy right something that can actually make you feel good and make you feel good um while you're making somebody else's life a little bit better right um i think it's easy to get caught up in the day-to-day struggles of life um and you sort of get stuck in this uh daily grind and doing something for somebody else can break you out of that you know sort of ground you um remind you of why you're doing the things that you're doing um make you appreciate the things that you have in your life um and then make you a little bit more empathetic right so these are sort of life scales that you can get from volunteering your time for somebody who has a little bit less than you um that's dealing with something that's a little bit more difficult than you are um so you know i have plans of continuing these global service initiatives you know i'm thinking about i've been talking to people about uh for earth day doing sort of a global psychedelic earth day cleanup where we all find a park you know a river um streets a city street that's you know particularly dirty and littered and you know take some time to clean that up for earth day um and so uh in continuing these practices um not as sort of like a one day sort of thing and showing your energy for it can consistently that's really how you're making changes that's really how you're making impact um you know with november november is a huge month of service because of thanksgiving in the united states um and so it's a great opportunity to start there but then of course continuing that onward i think it's it's all part of the psychedelic integration right so we have all of these experiences where you know life-changing mystical um experiences things that we've seen things messages that we get from the experience and you know at the end of the day what are you doing with those right what are you doing with those um insights right are you just keeping those to yourself or are you actually integrating it um and when you think about sort of maslow's hierarchy of needs right when you get to that point of self-actualization um it includes not just having the insights but actually making something of it actually giving back to the community giving back to um the people around you your family your friends um so um you know doing this community service thing like yes please do it in month of november but continue doing it at afterwards the i don't know if you're aware but some some of the psychedelic clubs out here are actually raising funds for their own clubs by um this is a little tangential but similar by going out into public for instance like a concert venue or like a baseball game and doing concessions so you could put up your club name there say like psychedelic club of denver for instance and they're like right serving all these folks food and drinks and whatever and uh i thought that was a really interesting way to go about it um it's been working well for them yeah i think it's i think it's important that we try to integrate psychedelic movement into mainstream society um you know in terms of getting people to accept the potential the possibility of psychedelics becoming a part of our day-to-day lives um it takes exposure you just have to be exposed to it you know um and so in doing these things it brings that exposure up you know we're living in a time where mdma could be legalized in the next couple of years um and you know we're looking at all of these research articles coming out about lsd and psilocybin and you know the whole ayahuasca boom um i think that seeing these things on the internet is one thing seeing them in your community is a whole different thing so there needs to be that connection where we're not just reading these articles about it but you know we're seeing people in our communities who are supportive of it who've had those experiences and i will and who can speak for for them firsthand yeah um talking about integrating the psychedelic experience um do you have any say psychedelic values that you think like the psychedelic community or like i guess the experience can elicit so you know obviously maybe like a message that you get is to take care of the body um so what are some psychedelic values do you think about or what do you think yeah psychedelic values are that we could integrate into the community so you know the thing about psychedelics is you know let's take dnt for example where you look at spaceships right we call it blasting off right and dnt colloquially we say you're blasting off you're blasting off into your mind right um and so those values are going to be a person-to-person thing and you'll see a whole lot of overlap right um but for me because of my experiences in life you know family has been one of those values that uh has really been imprinted upon me and so you know i've had experiences where immediately afterwards i'm like i need to call my mom and tell her i love her right i've had those many many times right or um sort of seeing um i remember one experience my first experience when i was the um i remember looking at the tree and i was like oh my god i'm so excited about trees and thinking that they had emotion and the way that they were swayed or the way that the wind was blowing through them it really like made me empathetic towards trees it made me feel towards trees as opposed to just having trees be something in the background and i really understood you know that trees are a life and the interconnectedness between trees and us um and so that made me a little bit more conscientious about about the planet and um doing things to get back to it um and so we've done a lot of cleanups because of that um and so i've been doing a lot of cleanups because of that and i've been doing a lot of um and so for me you know it's really been about being a better person those are you know essentially the values that uh might be different from person to person but at the end of the day it all comes down to being a better person um i have you know on sort of an existential standpoint where it's like what is life what are you doing here what's the point of everything you know you can have this sort of nihilistic point of view you know you can think that nothing matters or whatever the case may be but you know um i've been doing a lot of cleanups because i've been doing a lot of cleanups because i've been doing a lot of cleanups because i've been harman from uh rick and morty he says it best or you can have this nihilist attitude but where does it get you right and so i think the psychedelic experience it it can like facilitate a lot of these existential crises right but at the end of the day it makes you realize that what you need a full it makes you um sort of reorient your focus and make you realize that things are important and if nothing really matters what are you going to spend your time on right um and a lot of the time it's going to come down to you know doing good for other people right making the lives of other people a little bit easier making the lives of the people who are close to you a little bit easier um and making your life a little bit easier too by reorganizing your focus one of the biggest things i think is understanding uh the path to happiness and the path to happiness is living in alignment with your values right um and so for me the psychedelic experience is showing me what my values are it's really throwing it in my face and you know making my life a little bit easier and making my life a little bit easier and making my life a little bit easier and making my life a little bit easier and making my life a little bit easier and making me feel like crap if i wasn't living in accordance to those values um and so i think it's i think it's uh important that people sort of reflect on these values reflecting the values that they've gotten from their psychedelic experiences and find ways that they can live um in accordance to the values right to be a happy person yeah i love it i remember uh i think it was dimitri mujanis said um one time like psychedelics just make make me feel like less than like a little bit less of an asshole to people you know like that's a good way to sum it up yeah you get anything out of it hopefully it makes you a little bit less of an asshole yeah there's something there there is something there it's like um maybe you're just a little bit more um aware of oh that was a really shitty thing i just said i would hate it if somebody said that to me yeah so there's something there for sure um amplifies your emotional experience and forces you to focus on the things that you need to change and reminds you of things that you're doing right so um is there a website or anything about the psychedelic day of service that people can check out um and so what they can do is they can go to um the toronto psychedelic society put up a sort of a an email that we sent out through the third wave um that you can send out to the people who want to get involved um and so through that you know it's got the graphic that you um sort of looked at earlier with the volunteer etiquette um as well as some directions and it's got an email on there too and so that email um will come to me um if you're interested in being involved that you're not a part of a group um and then i can either you know walk people through the process of organizing an event on their on their own or connecting them to um an organization cool cool um yeah we'll try to link to all that stuff in the show notes uh so people don't um have to remember it or write it down so let's uh let's dig into some some fun stuff we we got to meet up very briefly in in uh new york city at horizons um and we just actually put out our horizons episode this morning kind of recapping some recordings we did on the scene and it was really cool um i loved the event uh it sounds like you also liked the event yeah it was great good good and the uh the duncan trussell microdosing panel with all those folks is really really cool too had you met paul before paul austin paul austin yeah so i i worked with the third wave a little bit so i met paul um at psychedelic science in oakland this past april um so at the time he was doing a find the others campaign um and so he was pretty much um doing a video for of you know existing psychedelic societies um to sort of spread that out and let people know that there are other people um who support the things that they support who are active um in this in this field um and since then we've been sort of working on a psychedelic storytelling project so i started something called psychonauts of the world which if you're familiar with humans of new york it's sort of a short form storytelling um model where people talk about their psychedelic experiences um and so with the third wave i do something called um micro stories of micro dosing which is the same idea um for micro dosing experiences well that's really awesome um so i met him where did i meet him first i actually forget probably oakland um at psychedelic science um he's a great guy um so yeah he was on the panel katherine mclean was on the panel sophia corb is it sophie or sophia corb um also hamilton morris from vice he does uh hamilton's pharmacopoeia it's really cool i actually haven't watched any of those episodes i've only seen like really short youtube clips but uh you know i'm a huge fan of duncan trussell he is amazing super funny kept talking about slurping back lsd i was like oh my god who would talk about it like that uh the slurping back chibichews i don't know if you guys have had chibichews but they are way too strong um so that's pretty funny uh and yeah it's just super cool because they were on couches in the middle of this circular audience it was almost like it was set up like a boxing ring in a lot of ways which um i was nervous about but it played out really nice everybody was nice to each other so great it was awesome super productive conversation it sounds like everybody learned something maybe except for hamilton i think hamilton knew everything already yeah way more more than necessary um but it's super funny and then shane moss was great as an opener was it shane was the opener yeah adam strauss it was adam not shane yes thank you the mushroom cure um he was super funny i've never seen any of his stuff before yeah great guy um yeah so i don't know what what was like the best thing for you out of the whole um horizons and after party thing um so a couple things um it was the second conference that i'd gone to in psychedelics so the first one was um you know psychedelic science which i was fortunate enough i got a scholarship for maps to attend it um the perspective scholarship and so they brought something like 18 or 20 people from around the world and funded their um trips um so that you know that um like sort of underrepresented voices in psychedelics we heard something that i thought was amazing um and so you know a lot of me to connect with so many different people from all over the world who are doing this work um and so going to horizons was sort of like an extension of that you know a continuation of it um where at psychedelics science 2017 you know i got connected with people and we started working on different things um which include the global psychedelic network um which is the global psychedelic network which is the global psychedelic network um and so we're you know at psychedelic science 2017 we um had a convening of all the psychedelic societies that were present we sort of crafted a mission statement um and talked about how we can sort of work together pull our resources to um to you know make a true impact um and so out of that sort of came the global psychedelic month of service right it also out of that also came the psychonauts of the world um and then we met at horizon you know we had an opportunity to meet with some of the psychedelic societies that were present and started to put together a guide for people who want to start psychedelic societies and don't really know how to start where to start um so that was that was great to sort of like see the continuation of you know psychedelic science and kind of put everything together um and then i think one of the things that stuck out too was um the conversation the last um the last talk by nick powell i believe powers i believe powers yeah we're working on getting him on the show i can't wait to talk to him he amazing everything that he said got a standing ovation the only standing ovation of the whole weekend yeah it was great it was that it was awesome um you know he said he brought up a lot of conversations that i you know are becoming a little bit more pronounced in the psychedelic movement now um uh and he did it there in a brilliant way and uh articulate man you know i think he was able to resonate with quite a bit of people i need to watch that i actually um it's funny i downloaded the new spongle cd i'm a huge spongle fan and um i took nick's video to uh put into our horizon post and it started playing on top of like the spongle track and so i was hearing like little bits and like history of like the drug war and this and i was like man spongle really did really great thing here and then i looked and i i didn't realize that his talk was playing in the background but um i'm excited to go back and actually listen to it um i had i had to bounce uh on sunday to catch a school call so i missed it but it was pretty incredible i um i think we should probably link that actually in this post uh for people who are interested because it really was phenomenal and raised a lot of you know quasi you're uniquely qualified to resonate with what he's talking about because like i'm just a friggin white kid from new hampshire and i have no and i live in like probably one of the whitest towns in colorado it's ridiculous i went from like the whitest state to like one of the whitest towns in colorado and you know i i have no experience with diversity i'll put that out there um but you you're you grew up in the bronx you said yep so i grew up in the bronx i was born in ghana west africa then uh lived in the bronx um for you know through beginning of high school about 13 years um went to high school and i came to buffalo for um college when did your family move to the states my family moved so my parents moved actually when i was about a year old cool to bronx and you know came to pretty much make a life for us you know um i've got i'm one of eight oh wow so you know my parents came over my aunt pretty much raised me for the first six years of my life um and then i i came over um to the bronx after that um so you know growing up in the bronx psychedelics you know i think all drugs are just grouped into one area right it could crack or it could be lsd but it's all the same thing right so you know we talk about the stigma of psychedelics well it's 10 or 20 times worse in the inner city yeah yeah that's a good point there's no real differentiation um at least from what i've seen from tv i don't yeah i don't have the experience in person but oh there's there isn't there isn't at all um you know one of the things that i think about too is like because that question has been coming up a lot it's like how do we make the psychedelic um movement more diverse and that's such a complicated process because it's like it's like it's like it's like because it's not that psychedelics are not inclusive it's that the communities where you know um multicultural people are living in the communities where that diversity is psychedelics are not going to be a priority right so going back to that maslow's hierarchy of needs when you're going into these inner cities you're still worried about food and shelter right self-actualization is all the way at the top and so once you have an environment that's inclusive that provides safety and everything that you need then you can move on to these experiences that you know sort of tap you into a higher consciousness but until you have the things that you need you know that's just not going to be a priority um and so it's really a systematic issue and not necessarily a issue of psychedelics not being inclusive right yeah and i think uh katherine mclean brought that up when we when we had her on the show talking about this topic and she was like yeah how many people from like the inner cities can really take off work um to participate in a study like this you know right not too many people i mean it takes a lot of time and if you can't like afford to do that it's yeah it's not going to happen it's not going to happen absolutely so i mean i you know i want to get into the the psychedelic therapy i think it might i think it would help a lot to have you know somebody of color to be approaching people of color um and letting them know of their options you know so i'm in um so i'm in clinicals right now and um you know working in a mental health and substance abuse facility you know and i've seen patients uh of color come in and you know they talk about their symptoms of distress btsd or this or that um and you know it just goes for everybody not just you know the patients of color but it's kind of frustrating sometimes to sit there and like listen to the struggles that they're having knowing that we have better solutions out there for them but you know even if these solutions were available to them they still wouldn't be interested in doing it because of that massive stigma in you know underprivileged communities i remember um during an assessment there was a puerto rican woman who was talking about you know her past experiences and her past you know history of drug use and this and that is just part of typical assessment you know and the interviewer asked you know have have you ever done you know she's naming off a bunch of different drugs you know so marijuana yes do you drink yes have you tried you know have you ever done you know she's naming off a bunch of different drugs you know so marijuana yes do you drink yes have you tried cocaine yes you know have you tried psychedelics oh no i would never do that psychedelics oh no i would never do that are you crazy right and so that's like are you crazy right and so that's like are you crazy right and so that's like the typical response you're gonna get um the typical response you're gonna get um the typical response you're gonna get um so it's gonna be really difficult to be so it's gonna be really difficult to be so it's gonna be really difficult to be like hey listen we understand that you've like hey listen we understand that you've like hey listen we understand that you've got ptsd but there's this amazing amazing got ptsd but there's this amazing amazing got ptsd but there's this amazing amazing treatment out there that could help you treatment out there that could help you treatment out there that could help you um in order to sort of convince them um in order to sort of convince them um in order to sort of convince them that this is something that they can that this is something that they can that this is something that they can actually benefit from it would help actually benefit from it would help actually benefit from it would help if they're receiving that message from if they're receiving that message from if they're receiving that message from somebody who is also of color somebody who is also of color somebody who is also of color and just to give a background you're a and just to give a background you're a and just to give a background you're a nurse and then you're also working on nurse and then you're also working on nurse and then you're also working on your doctorate of nursing correct yep so your doctorate of nursing correct yep so your doctorate of nursing correct yep so i'm a nurse i'm working on a i'm a nurse i'm working on a i'm a nurse i'm working on a psychiatric doctor of nursing practice psychiatric doctor of nursing practice psychiatric doctor of nursing practice similar to a physician's assistant and similar to a physician's assistant and similar to a physician's assistant and so it allows me to diagnose and prescribe so it allows me to diagnose and prescribe so it allows me to diagnose and prescribe medication for psychiatric patients medication for psychiatric patients medication for psychiatric patients so you know ultimately i want to so you know ultimately i want to so you know ultimately i want to practice psychedelic therapy and practice psychedelic therapy and practice psychedelic therapy and i think i think i think you know having a background in nursing you know having a background in nursing you know having a background in nursing is really integral to that because of the is really integral to that because of the is really integral to that because of the emphasis of compassion and trust and emphasis of compassion and trust and emphasis of compassion and trust and empathy that empathy that empathy that that we're trained in nursing to have i that we're trained in nursing to have i that we're trained in nursing to have i think really translates think really translates think really translates very well over into um work with very well over into um work with very well over into um work with psychedelics psychedelics psychedelics we're doing the harm reduction for our we're doing the harm reduction for our we're doing the harm reduction for our local festivals a lot of that came into local festivals a lot of that came into local festivals a lot of that came into play play play and all the harm reduction isn't and all the harm reduction isn't and all the harm reduction isn't directive it's not therapeutic you know directive it's not therapeutic you know directive it's not therapeutic you know so it takes a lot of those so it takes a lot of those so it takes a lot of those sort of soft skills right of being able sort of soft skills right of being able sort of soft skills right of being able to approach people in to approach people in to approach people in soft ways being able to approach people soft ways being able to approach people soft ways being able to approach people in non-threatening ways in non-threatening ways in non-threatening ways um and trying to make the most of your um and trying to make the most of your um and trying to make the most of your time time time so i think we should talk about getting so i think we should talk about getting so i think we should talk about getting you trained up in breath work too you trained up in breath work too you trained up in breath work too yeah i would love that absolutely yeah i would love that absolutely yeah i would love that absolutely okay that'd be great i was talking to okay that'd be great i was talking to okay that'd be great i was talking to kyle about that earlier kyle about that earlier kyle about that earlier awesome um there's there's a lot to talk about here there's there's a lot to talk about here there's there's a lot to talk about here because psychedelic therapy because psychedelic therapy because psychedelic therapy is so heated like the world like you're is so heated like the world like you're is so heated like the world like you're seeing it just like we're seeing it seeing it just like we're seeing it it there's so much you know back and forth going oh you're doing it wrong or no just calm down it's okay to do it wrong for a little bit then we can do it right but then there's this risk of you know a session i don't know how it's going to play out but i've heard this number of ten thousand dollars from dma therapy that could be the whole program but that's still way out of reach of a lot of folks especially given we don't know what insurance is going to cover or or the federal government's going to cover um do you have any thoughts on that like democratization of psychedelic therapy like you know being concerned about what might happen once legalization happens yeah i mean this is going to take a whole lot of work from overhead you know it's really going to take a whole lot of negotiation from the end of maps um and trying to make you know trying to approach this in a very encompassing way that addresses a lot of these issues you know i i think a lot about the whole underground scene of psychedelics and i think a lot about the whole underground scene of psychedelics and i think a lot about the whole underground scene of psychedelics and i think a lot about the whole underground scene of psychedelics and i think a lot about the whole underground scene of psychedelics and how there are people who have access to these things without it necessarily being legal and wondering if that might be like a great thing to have because in terms of access in terms of cost etc it's there right it's you're able to get to these medications it's not legal though so that's of course a massive barrier um and so you know that's i think that's part of the well will this be integrated in society? Is this going to be something that's looked at as sort of an optional treatment? And because it's optional, you have to pay, you know, at the wazoo for it, right? Is this something that is going to be, again, just catered to people who have a ton of money and, you know, and being approached by people who are not of color is not going to be the only barrier to this? You know, these are a lot of really difficult questions. I think that the way that MAPS is doing it is brilliant. You know, the way I see it, you know, in terms of policy changes, it has to either be through a financial initiative, which we're kind of seeing a lot with marijuana, where, you know, sort of the medical components of marijuana is what started the legalization. But now that there's this huge financial initiative, you have all of these states who are kind of hopping on board. You know, I don't know how much of that will happen with psychedelics, right? And so it might have to stick in this completely purely medical realm where hopefully psychedelics are then looked at, like, or, you know, we can use MDMA as an example, that it can be billed and, you know, MDMA can be billed the same way that SSRIs are built because we have the scientific evidence to prove that it's worthy of it, right? So I'm really hoping that, you know, I'm sure these are a lot of the questions that MAPS is asking. I'm in their approach to working with the FDA. I'm in an approach to working with the government to make sure that once this is here, we can actually make use of it the way that we're making use of any other medication. Right. I feel like there's this six-year window where they have a kind of, I guess it's literally like a, I hate to speak out of school, but it sounds like they're going to be able to say who can provide the therapy. Right. And we don't really know what that looks like yet. I don't know if the announcements have been made there. And I think that's fair. You know, when we look at different treatments, you know, standard treatments for different things. So using PTSD, there's something called eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. EMDR. EMDR. Yep. And so with EMDR, to be able to provide it, you have to go through a whole training process. Not anybody can just do EMDR, right? So, I think it's good to have the same sort of stringent parameters for doing psychedelic therapy. Not everybody should be able to provide it unless they've already gone through the training of it. I remember one of the talks at the Horizons Conference, somebody, you know, she was, the speaker was talking about how, was questioning, should people who are providing psychedelic therapy have had psychedelic experiences? Right. Should that be one of the training modalities for them? Right. Not everybody should be able to provide it unless they've done psychedelic therapy. Right. So, I think it's good to have the same sort of stringent parameters for people who are going to be providing psychedelic therapy. Because, you know, is that going to add to the therapeutic relationship at all? Is that going to, you know, be objectively better for the patients and the clients than somebody who has no experience whatsoever? So, you know, I think that although it makes it a little bit more difficult to get access to it, and giving psychedelic therapy, the same sort of parameters, the same stringent parameters on it as any other medication, it gives it that much more sort of gravitas. It gives it that much more reliability. It just makes it a little bit more appealing, I think, too, to know that your therapist is somebody who's specifically trained to be able to do this for you. Yeah, I definitely want somebody that's been trained. If they were guiding me through a session, you know, I mean, you're saying that, you know, in the ayahuasca movement, where people are going down and taking ayahuasca with people that aren't trained, and it's a shit show. Right. You know, there's a lot of psychological and physical damage that can happen. Yeah, I mean, these are things that, like, you know, there's also the negative side of psychedelics, too, when it comes to treatment. I think we get caught in the conversation about how this is a miracle cure, and it can be for a lot of people. But it can also make things worse for a lot of people. And the initial studies they were doing with LSD, they weren't targeting any specific mental health population. They were giving LSD to everybody. So you could have been a schizophrenic, you could have OCD, generalized anxiety disorder, depression, alcoholism. Let's just give it to them. Let's see what happens. For most of them, most of them, it made it worse, right, for most of them. And that's the reality of it. But, you know, out of that, we saw that LSD was really beneficial for alcoholics. It was really, really meaningful for people with substance use disorders. And so, you know, we always have to be very careful with the way that we're approaching things. And all this research, of course, is super necessary because if those initial studies weren't done, we wouldn't have been able to see that, you know, LSD might not be the best thing for schizophrenia, right? So, yeah, you know, it's unfortunate people are going on to do these things or, you know, they might be hearing about how LSD or psilocybin is a miracle cure for this or that. And then they're trying it on their own without any guidance, without any professional oversight, and they're making things worse, right? Which is why it is so important that we have this research to show who should be using these things, right? right, where we can do a thorough family history and make sure that we're not putting you at harm like we would any other medication, right? What's your take on, say, like the traditional use versus clinical use? So, I think that the clinical use is an avenue to expand access to traditional use, right? I think that's the way that, because, again, using marijuana as an example, right, a plant, right, that we should all really have access to, but we don't because it's illegal. But because of medicinal uses, we were able to, you know, use it if you have chronic back pain or, you know, nausea from chemotherapy, and then eventually recreational, where now everybody's got access to it, the traditional use. So, I think that's the same thing that's going to be happening with LSD and psilocybin, MDMA, where, you know, there's that traditional use happening on the underground, but in order to bring it out into the mainstream to make it legal, it's going to have to go through the medicinal route first, where we can accept it as a culture, as a society, see the benefits of it, and then expand that into sort of a mainstream psychedelic use. Both have its benefits. You know, I think that as somebody who would have severe PTSD, you know, it's, it's wonderful that they have, they can have access to MDMA to cure them of that, but you could be also a healthy individual. You know, you don't have really any major severe depression or anxiety issues, but you could still severely benefit from a psychedelic experience, right? You know, it's not something that I think should be restricted to the medicinal use. I think the education is necessary so people are more aware of the risks that they're taking if they are using it in a more traditional setting. Um, I, in college, I remember there was a kid who was in my dorm who was sober because he had a history of schizophrenia in his family. And so he just stayed away from everything, right? So having people aware of the risks that they're taking so they can do that, so they can know that psychedelics are not for them. So, you know, if they want to use it traditionally, they can, but they know what the risk, the risks that they're taking, um, and, uh, they know how to use it properly, essentially. Yeah. Great answer. Yeah. I mean, I was just thinking about that too, um, in regards to like training and whatnot. Um, you know, what, what is like a shamanic training look like versus like a clinical training? And, um, yes, it's interesting. Um, because like, how would we restrict some of these traditional say shamans or people that it's been in their lineage for thousands of years? Um, how would they get approved to, to do work? Right. Which is pretty tough because I mean, totally different perspectives on it. Yeah. You know, when it, when it comes to shamanism, the whole idea is that the shaman is not the teacher. Shaman is holding space, right? They are the gateway essentially to the spirit realm. But once you're in there, it's up to the, to the, to the medicine to do the work. But then when it comes to traditional therapy, you know, um, medicinal therapy, you know, the psychologist is using cognitive behavioral therapy as an adjunct to, um, the, the, the medication, right. Or the medicine. So it's kind of like two different approaches objectively, which one is better. I guess we'd have to look at research, right. You know, that could be like a potential research initiative in the future, you know, once things are a little bit more out in the open and we can see like, is, is the shamanistic, um, approach to it better or the same as the medicinal approach to it? Um, I think of course, when it comes to insurance things, you have to have these sort of, you know, protocols and this and that, that you need to follow in order for it to, um, meet the requirements for, um, insurance reimbursement. So, you know, that might have a lot to do with the MDMA assisted psychotherapy and not just MDMA therapy. Right. Right. Yep. Yeah. I sometimes like to think about it like, um, LSD and MDMA are very Western medicines versus like these naturally occurring, um, like fungi or plants. Um, so it's like, that's, I don't know when I think about like the clinical use, I think, okay, like MDMA, maybe that fits in there because it's kind of part of that, that tradition. Um, yeah, true. Fair point. If we want, yeah, if we want to go a little far out, you could say, for instance, like everybody that's used a substance has kind of like, uh, tapped in part of their essence to it. And it's kind of almost permanently attached to that substance. So if you looked at the Ibogaine tradition, like everybody's there for thousands of years, like ayahuasca, you know, probably same thing for thousands of years. Um, mushroom, same thing. LSD, you only got 60 years of baggage, right? MDMA less to CB less. So, you know, you're, you're dealing with more just you, um, as opposed to all this kind of cultural and potentially spiritual transpersonal stuff that's bolted onto these molecules. Um, hard saying, not knowing, but, uh, you know, that's one way to look at it. And as a way, some traditions look at this thing, right? I think it's also really interesting that like a lot of these psychedelics, they sort of take on the personalities of the cultures that they come from. Yeah. Right. And so with mother ayahuasca, you get these, you know, snake vibes, like this very, like, you know, foresty, but, and then Ibogaine, you get these African spirits, you know, um, just as a complete aside, I always find that very interesting. Have you used a Ibogaine? Ibogaine, I have not. So, um, I began an ayahuasca is on my list. Okay. You got everything else. I began, maybe not. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm like really questioning whether I would ever do Ibogaine. It seems so intense and not pleasant. And I'm like, you know, if I was addicted to opiates and I was going to die, it would be like, okay, yeah, I'll do that one. Maybe if I, if I don't want to die, maybe I want to die. I don't know. But, uh, yeah, Ibogaine seems like something that you steer clear of unless you actually really, really need it. Yeah. I like the idea. It sounds like there's some really cool microdosing stuff happening with Ibogaine, which I might be inclined to try eventually. I was talking to this guy who studied with the puy tea and he said over there, they actually, um, eat like microdoses of the root. Um, and that's how it was like traditionally used besides like the, uh, initiation rights and using it as like a rites of passage to like break you open. But he said they would use it. Um, yeah, they would just take small doses and use it for work and whatnot. Right. Yeah. I can't remember. I think it might've been Hamilton during the microdose conversation who mentioned that, you know, traditional uses of psychedelics are microdoses, right? And we, when we're taking it in the West, we're, we're using it for like that breakthrough mystical experience, but that's not necessarily how it's been done for, you know, thousands of years. Just like a really interesting, cause I always thought the opposite. I always assumed that, you know, these traditional, um, models of psychedelic usage, you're going way deeper. Right. Because it's ingrained in your tradition. Therefore, they're probably pursuing a little bit more, um, of a deeper look into the mind that we might be comfortable with. Right. But yeah, it's the opposite. I wanted to disagree with him there. Cause I thought he painted with a little bit too broad of a brush. Um, like I, I know for sure he's right in some context. I just don't think it's like everyone, not everybody. Right. You know, he actually did say something that pissed me off. I don't know if you guys got this. So, but he like, oh man. So it's, it's the vice attitude. He's the embodiment of vice. So like, I love it, but I also like get bugged, you know, it's the way they always say shit about the United States. It was always this like shitty way of talking about Americans. And it's like all the time. It's like, if you're from the United States and doing ayahuasca, blah, blah, blah, it's like this diminutive thing about our country. And it's like, come on guys, like get us together. It's okay to be positive about ourselves. It's okay to be like, you know, not try to encourage everybody to cut their wrists. Like we're, we're an okay people working on the problem. There's a lot of problems here we're working on, but it's like, I don't know. That was just like a one thing he said at one point, if you're an American going to do ayahuasca, blah, blah, blah, you know, you're, I don't know when people talk about the ayahuasca economy and Americans, I get a little bothered. Like I get the point that we shouldn't, you know, we should do our best to leave, you know, very few, footprints down there, a lot of trash, like do our best not to do that. And also, you know, hopefully contribute something to, you know, either indigenous people or to preserving the plants in some way. But, you know, beyond that, like, I don't really think you need to be too shitty. And it's, it's kind of like, how would somebody coming from Los Angeles that saw ayahuasca in like a Jennifer Aniston movie, now they're going to Peru, like, how would they know to like, how to not be shitty, unless they're taught, right? Like, you know, there's no, there's no context, you know, it's just another place on the planet. It's, you know, just an extension of Los Angeles. And you're gonna, you know, buy 10 million water bottles and leave shit everywhere and, you know, not contribute to the rainforest, but maybe you are, maybe you are aware. But I don't know, I, it's just something that gets me a little bent out of shape when people shit on Americans, because, you know, we're trying here, right? Yeah, I mean, people are people aren't going to Peru for ayahuasca ceremonies. Screw up your culture, they're going for spiritual healing. Right? I mean, you know, when it's happening in mass, there may be consequences that we're not fully aware of. But it's not the intention to do that and so of course it's an issue of access most people in the states just don't have access to something that could change your lives and so if they need to go to um if they need to go to um south america to do this that's just what you have to do right yeah absolutely and um it's it's upon all of us to encourage new people in the field to understand some of these issues and to maybe even pressure some of the ayahuasca centers to include this in what they teach you you know maybe they need to know a little bit about eco stuff um yeah i mean i think too like when it comes to um the resource limitations that might be occurring you know i think this is something that was a theme at the psychedelic science conference where um like the 5mao toad might be sort of um a resource limitation um it comes to um even a peyote cactus how that's kind of dwindling down because of mainstreaming of psychedelics those are real issues that we do need to talk about and address and figure out how we can find solutions to them cool so we are at time so quasi do you want to give us some links so people can find more about um you the work you're doing and this uh psychedelic month of service sure um so if you're interested you can email me at uh quasi at the third wave that co um if you know it's just something that sort of sparks your interest and you want to learn a little bit more um you send an email to that again toronto psychedelic society has put up um you know uh the the image um the that explains the whole process honestly you can check out the toronto psychedelic society's facebook and they'll have that up for you um uh one of the other things that i i talked about a little bit you know my thing is giving people opportunities to come out of the psychedelic closet like the more people that are out there um who are you know developers software developers doctors nurses you know just post people who work at the post office just anybody doing whatever you're doing just i think it's so important that we just come out and say i support psychedelics they do them and they've helped me right really just that simple um i think that's uh i think that's going to be like a really important aspect of the the movement as a whole um and so second loss of the world is you know um sort of this facebook campaign of sharing people's messages you know it talks about people who use lsd to get off their heroin addictions and people who made major life changes based off of um dmt experiences and um so if you want to check out facebook.com slash um second odds of the world um and you're willing to share your story that would be absolutely amazing too so you know i really want to thank you guys second odds of the world and i'll see you in the next one bye bye yeah thank you it's been an awesome conversation and really loving what you're doing you're doing some amazing work in this community odds are good you've been in a strange situation regarding somebody handing you some drug and you didn't know how to use it even if it was you know you were 17 years old and somebody handed you a joint you go uh doesn't this make me go crazy how do you level up your knowledge and get a handle on what drugs are safe how to do drugs how to know if this stuff is okay to do like does lsd cause uh chromosome damage you know that big lie from the 60s 70s and you know it doesn't so how do you clear these things up kyle and i developed a class navigating psychedelics and it is consider it a 101 102 of psychedelics how to do them how to be safe how to make sure you and your friends don't go to prison or go to the hospital and we walk you through a lot of that process we do some live support through our secret and closed facebook group there's also the ability to communicate inside the course we are going to start offering regular live check-ins webinar check-ins to folks and that can really help support the process so far the feedback has been tremendous people are very excited about the class and and are shocked at the amount of value we've thrown in there we did a whole bunch of master classes with experts and in particular sub aspects of psychedelics the folks who are featured as master class teachers lenny gibson phd elizabeth gibson those are both our breathwork teachers larry norris from erie on integration paul austin on microdosing shannon claire carlin she works for maps she's great katherine mclean phd ashley booth ms neil and i are going to talk a little bit more about psychedelics and how to do them neil marshall goldsmith phd mitchell gomez director executive director of dance safe julie megler msn so she's a nurse practitioner that also works at erie with larry norris dr richard grossman who's a acupuncturist he's got a phd on ayahuasca light hearts and safety we call that one vilmarie narlock from the students for sensible drug policy michelle hobart ms spiritual emergence and self-care dr ingmar gorman clinical psychologist who works closely with katherine mclean in new york and uh yeah that's it for now but we're going to keep adding more um i think we're going to get one with daniel mcqueen soon so keep an eye out for that and hope you have the opportunity to check it out if you want to get better educated on psychedelics this is a great way to start even if you've been around for a long time you might have picked up some what to call it hippie wisdom or something that might not necessarily be right you know um yeah about brown acid or black acid or whatever kind of all just one molecule you can test for that molecule and know that you've got a molecule maybe there's some side additives but this is stuff that we really need to figure out and get straight we need a baseline of knowledge as a community here and this is our contribution to that so you can learn more at psychedelicstoday.com and if you want to go right to our site it's psychedelicstoday.teachable.com kyle and i decided to raise some funds using patreon which is a really cool way to support the show because you can choose to donate to our website at psychedelicstoday.teachable.com a small portion of money monthly for certain prizes we are allowing you guys access to interviews before they will ever hit the web so for instance this horizons episode they've had that for a few days and i believe there's some panel discussion stuff we've recorded and made available there you'll probably also have access to some member or patron only webinars we also have rewards including t-shirts stickers mugs access to our navigating psychedelics class and much more so check it out patreon.com psychedelics today or you can get a link from our site psychedelicstoday.com if you want to look really cool in some psychedelics today gear you really want to check out psychedelicstoday.shop.com we've got all sorts of cool stuff from t-shirts to mugs to shower curtains and pillows so you check it out any small purchase helps even if it's just some stickers we got some cool stickers there check it out psychedelicstoday.shop.com tell your friends maybe buy some presents for this uh upcoming what do you guys call black friday yeah black friday maybe that or maybe it's a christmas present or whatever we would love you guys to check out some of our stuff there and support the show and also check out our website at psychedelicstoday.com and we'll see you guys in the next video bye bye bye psychedelicstoday.shop.com psychedelicstoday.shop.com © transcript Emily Beynon