The comedian reflects on his career evolution from stand-up roots in Chicago to a multifaceted path in comedy and acting, recalling early struggles such as launching a stand-up show at a playground and facing early criticism. He shares how a recent role that made him appear buff sparked intense online backlash, particularly during the pandemic, when thousands of people mocked his appearance—deepening feelings of shame and triggering a painful emotional crisis. This experience, rooted in long-standing body image issues from childhood, led him to seek therapy and reframe his self-worth. He emphasizes how comedy’s boundaries have shifted over time, with today’s audiences rejecting outdated jokes involving stereotypes or harmful themes. The comedian values authenticity, integrity, and personal connection, citing his relationship with Emily as a central source of stability and purpose. He is critical of rampant wealth obsession, calling it an undiagnosed mental illness, and laments the trauma inflicted on young public figures. He also highlights how simple routines—like going to bed early and walking in the cold—have transformed his life, offering a grounded, intentional lifestyle. Through humor and vulnerability, he underscores the importance of emotional resilience, self-acceptance, and ethical responsibilities in entertainment, especially when navigating public scrutiny and evolving cultural norms.
- Wave. - You know, and what you can joke about and not joke about does change with the times. And I think rightly so. Like, for instance, when I was started doing standup back in, bleep this, 2002. (laughing) - Holy shit. - I'm sorry. (laughing) - I definitely bleep that. (laughing) (upbeat music) - What's up, dude? How you doing? - I'm great. How are you? - Good. Let's stop in the party. - Wait, what happened? - What happened? It was so natural that suddenly everything's tight. I am good. How was your day? - How are you? I love my projects and my job. What about you? - I like to promote them (laughing) to the highest of my ability. - You've been doing press tours. - I don't even like the projects. I just want to go talk to people about it. - Yeah. - For me, the project is work. The reward is when I get to do 12 hours of back-to-back press. - That's right. People asking what my inspirations are. I cannot get enough. (laughing) Love talking about that. I couldn't even tell you. It seems so arrogant to be like, well, my inspirations are. I don't, I don't fucking know. - Yeah. - My dad and my mother shouldn't have rolled my eyes after saying that I'm a beautiful parent. - I genuinely love them. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And now it just sounds like I don't. - Sounds horrible. You sound like a mean guy. Which is the rumors about you. - Good. - You know what rumor was going around about me last year? That I didn't know about until like multiple people. Someone pulled down, there was a rumor going around last year that I was having an affair with Michelle Obama. - Congratulations. - No, I was so excited. My friend, our mutual friend Pulled Emily aside and was like, hey, so I heard that Kamel and Michelle Obama are like doing it. And she was like, she wasn't even upset, but multiple people brought it up to me. I've never met Michelle Obama. - Okay, so no affair, okay, got it. - Well, at the same time, on that we say, at the same time that that rumor was going around, there's been this persistent rumor that Barack is stepping out with Jen Aniston. - Really? - Yeah. - Wow. - That's a fun one. That's been a persistent one. - Oh my God. So you really think we think it's real? - I don't know, but what I'm saying is for my friend, Kumel, you're up there with Jen Aniston in terms of a affair. - I don't know, I think Michelle's slumming it and Barack, to be honest, no shade to Jen. Barack's slumming it too. - No, you think? - No, I'm a Jen. - Who do you want to see him with? - I'm just saying Michelle Obama's a very high bar to clear. And I love Jennifer Aniston. I'm genuinely a huge fan. - Yeah. - I don't, who would you vote for? - Well, you don't want to see one of the leaders of the free world with an actor. Well, I think you just don't want to see any actor getting that. - Well, I call myself a comedian, Caleb. - Yeah. - Even worse. - Yeah, even lower the notably. Actually, I was going to talk to you about, I saw in one of, maybe it was like the trailer, one of the like clips that they put out for your special, which is out now, just know it came out December 19th, by the time this episode comes out. But you were in the special, I feel like you talk about being like, just so you guys know, I started in stand up. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Because you've become now a big actor and you, but I have a similar thing with the internet where I'm like, just so you guys know, I was in basements in addicts in Chicago. - See, that was surprising to me about you because I knew you as like, sort of an Instagram guy. - Yeah. - And then Nick Crowe was the one. Have you worked with Crowe? - Yeah, 'cause he told me he's like, this guy's actually like a good stand up. And then I saw, you know, I was like, oh, okay. 'Cause usually, you know, I've seen those people make the transition and it's not quite as sharp. But when I watched you, I was like, oh, this guy is an actual stand up. - It's not always seen, but that's the thing, is it was the opposite for, and I feel like, I wanted to talk to you about it, because you've had a similar thing of like, we both started in Chicago doing stand up first. - I did not know you started in Chicago. - Yeah, I was at the playground. I was at the annoyance, hideout, all the spots. - Yeah, hideout. - Hideout, dude, I was in there. - That was for the cool people. - That was for the cool. - The cool, I actually did feel that. And the first time I got asked to be on a hideout show, I was like, well, okay, look at me. (laughing) Things are turning around. I said, yeah, I've just arrived. But yeah, I watched, when I watched your enemies movie, I, and you had the one-means show. I don't know if it was at the playground, like filmed there or set there. - No, it was kind of, it was filmed in New York, but it's kind of, it's kind of set at the playground. I used to have a show, a monthly show that I did at the playground. - Yeah. - 11 p.m. on Saturday night, only the best slots. (laughing) And that was when Emily and I had first started dating. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I got a, I asked I/O for my own show, like way too early into being in Chicago. - I love, I love the confidence of young people. (laughing) They're so confident. - It was delusional and inappropriate. I was in Chicago for like five months and I was like, I think I need a headlining show. - What did they say? - They, while they said, you can have, you can have Friday nights at 11 o'clock 'cause no one wants it. - How'd it go? - Well, it went pretty bad. And then it went, basically what would happen was, we had that slot for a while. They're like, you can have it, as long as you're selling any tickets at all. And so we packed it out with our friends, packed it out. I mean, we would get like 15 or 20 people in a 90 seat room, like three weeks out of the month. - I think it's amazing that you said, 15 to 20 people, you said, packed it out. - Well, this is what I'm saying. One week a month, we would pack it out. So it'd be like 15 to 20 people for three weeks and then we would do a big special show. - Oh, okay. - This is 'cause it was new sketch material every week. - Yeah. - And we were like, this is our culmination of the month show. And then we would like sell it out. And so we kept that slot for a while. And then I wanna say like, maybe three or four months in, they moved us to an earlier slot. So we did get moved up, but it was, that first couple of months was rough. - Yeah. - 'Cause Friday's tough too, because everyone has had a day. Like it wasn't like they slept in on a weekend and they were like, - Have you ever done like the comedy club thing? Like have you done the seven shows towards the day to Sunday? - Never. - So the late show Friday is notoriously the worst show. - Yeah. - Because they've been drinking since work, the show's starting at 11. Now they're like drunk to the point of sleepy and tired. - Yeah. - So half is falling asleep and half are just angry and yelling at you. So the late show Friday is the worst of all the shows. - Yeah, it was a nightmare. Did you do the club thing for a while? - No, I actually, you know, this, for this special was the first time I actually toured. But before that, I did like four weekends of clubs just to get reps in and tighten up stuff. Because, you know, if you do a theater, they're all facing you. They give you so much leeway, in a club, you know, a midnight they're getting a check drop spot. They have to have a drink minimum. So it's a much tougher crowd. And so I did that just to like, cut all my stuff down and figure out, you know, 'cause I did my first weekend at the Denver comedy work, which is the best, one of the best clubs in the country. - Were you in the Denver proper one or the one in like Greenwood? - Proper. - Yes, okay, cool. - The worst show I had on tour was the night before, two nights before I recorded my special in Chicago. I did this venue in New York. It's underneath Times Square. - No. - Yeah, like the basement of time, like Times Square is a nightmare. Imagine the basement of Times Square. - I feel like what were you doing over there? Why? - I think, I called my agent afterwards and I was like, never, never do this kind of thing. - I've had that phone call, yeah. - It was a bad venue for comedy, but the staff was very rude. - Oh. (laughing) - And just like did not want to stare. Like they were doing us a favor. That's the show. Okay, so that's the show. This was, you know, in March. I recorded in March, so that's the soundproof walls, Kurt Branoel, or do you know Kurt? - Yeah. - He's amazing. I saw him like each shit for 25 minutes. I went on stage, shook his hand. I was like, how are they? And he's like, terrible. (laughing) It's the first time only time my parents have seen me perform. And afterwards, and listen, as I said in the beginning, I really genuinely love my parents. They're genuinely very supportive. My dad is maybe like the sweetest, sweetest guy. Most hardworking guy I've ever met. After the shoot, to the shell. I have all these friends and my parents come. And I go to my dad and I'm like, "Hey, thanks for coming." And he was like, "It was good." And I went to hug him and he put his hand out. (laughing) And his hand went into my belly. And I was like, "He had it." And then they left, they walked out. And we have his spoken about it since. - That is fucking amazing. - And I was telling them, I have a new special coming out. And they're like, "Oh, is it the same show that we saw?" And I was like, "Yeah." And they're like, "Okay." - Okay, well, we might. - We don't need to see that. We've seen it. - Where did you film it in Chicago? - At the Vic. - Do you know the thing? - Oh, yeah, yeah, it's the best. - That's so cool. - Yeah. - Why are you doing this again? - What happened? - What a good class. (laughing) - What 'cause I like to believe that we get past this at some point. But now you're back. - I wouldn't, it started in the actors' writers' strike. 'Cause I was like, you know, to be honest, did not misunderstand them. I really did not. I was loving acting and writing other stuff. And, you know, 'cause I don't have like, different buckets for everything. I wasn't feeling the need to get up in front of an audience. Like, I've worked with comedians like shooting something and at night they go do a set. I don't wanna do that. - I don't talk that. - Yeah, it's like a disease. - Yeah, I'm not doing more. - Yeah. - But it was the actors' writers' strike. And I was about to go to this movie and then something that was really frustrated that it went away and I was like, what am I gonna do? And for years I had this thing. I hated, I didn't miss doing it, but I hated being not being good at something that I used to be good at. So I just went back on stage to be like, is this something I can still enjoy? And can I be good at this again? And I'd gotten so scared of it that I just hated that. 'Cause I remember when I was in New York, I spent two years in New York. And that was when I was,
my standup was like at its best and I'll never be as good as I was then, you know? But I remember feeling like I could go up in front of any room and kill and it felt like later, it felt like that was a different person. I could not imagine ever feeling that about anything. I was like, am I able to like recapture some of that? So I really did it just to see if I could do it. - Yeah. - And then I haven't really done it since I recorded it. (laughing) - Yeah, so I proved it to myself that you know I'm checking out again. - Well, I mean, you know, I just, I get excited about other stuff. Like to me, acting is so much harder than standup. Not that standup's easy. I think the performing of standup I find to be fairly easy. I think you do too, I assume. You're like very natural on stage. The writing is tougher, like it's hard to come up with beds and it's hard to write and I enjoy it. If I already have a bit working on it, I enjoy it. But if I'm looking at a blank screen and I've got nothing, that's like really, really difficult. So I find acting so much more challenging and difficult. Like, you know, when I'm like really got a great set, when I'm doing sets without the comedians, there's nobody really that I go and see like, oh man, I don't, I can't do that, you know. But with acting, you work with actors who you're like, whoa, what was that? I can't do that. Like that to me is really exciting. Like someone like really fucking having a real moment with you. They all cut and they're like, ah, so, did you have any bagels today, you know, to me, that's magic. Yeah, like a name drop. I worked with you and McGregor and a pretty good name drop. And he is a pretty good name drop solid. Yeah, solid. Okay, I have to tell you something later. Yes, you're McGregor. He's goofing around, talking, action, cut. As I was saying, like to me, that's magic, you know, and I'd be like goofing around with them. I'm like, hey, this is a pretty intense thing. Do you need him at one moment? He's like, no, I don't need a moment. And he's like on it. To me, like, I'm like, I don't know how you do that. So that's what's exciting about acting to me. Like, I want to do that. That's, yeah, and I do think it's way harder. And I think there's so many reasons it's way harder. But for me, the biggest one is I'm not in charge of my own life for the whole time I'm filming something. Like, they tell me when to show up. They send the car. They put me in the car. You're literally a number on a sheet. I'm a number on a sheet. And it's like, I, you know, a scared frantic 22 year old bangs on my door and then like takes me away. Yeah, like the whole thing is I'm just like, yeah, not being in charge of my own time at all is the hardest part for me. That is hard for you. I hate that. I love the structure of it. Really? I love someone being like, get here at this time. You'll be done by this time. I found in COVID, I completely switched. Like, my day is very, very structured and regimented. Now, which is why one of the many reasons that press week is so difficult for me because it throws everything off. But I go to bed at the same time. I wake up at the same time. I write for the same time every day. So I really, the structure of it actually makes me feel very free. What does your day look like? Your normal day. I'm not shooting. Normal day at home, you're not shooting. What do you do? What is your day? Because going here and you go to bed at the same time to me is like, I can't believe that. Are you one of those people that's like evaluating how cool someone is when you're talking to them? I have already evaluated you. Okay. I come up with my answer. I don't want to know. No, I want to tell you. No, I'm not evaluating you. I'm curious because I need, I think, can I tell you my struggle? It's this. I think that I would benefit from some structure and some regimen, and I think I actually secretly like it, but I'm like a fucking child or something, and I continue to not have one, and then I suffer. I am, if I, if I left my own devices, nothing to, I am in bed before nine, and I get up around six thirty, and it brings me tremendous joy. I absolutely love it because I do feel, I feel like my life has really two things. My life with Emily, and that really is, you know, I had this epiphany, I was like, that is my reason for being on this earth, like getting to know Emily. Yeah. You've got to find it. Otherwise, it's pointless. It's one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. Keep going. I do realize that what I have with Emily is a very, very special thing. That's not to say that we don't have to work at it. We really, really do, and it is work that is joy in the work, but there is intentional work that we have to do every day. But I realize that what I have with her is a very special thing. That is my purpose for being. The other thing is work. And if I go, if I'm going to bed early, my relationship with Emily is, is better because we're like spending time in bed together and waking up at the same time. And my, I feel like I'm more present for work. Like I'm waking up early and start writing by a, you know, so it's just kind of like really, all the things I care about really line up if I'm going to bed early. It's going to bed early, specifically, is the thing that's changed my life most in the last five years. I can totally believe that. I think that it's probably 100% the way I should be living. I'm not prepared to do it. Is Emily going to bed at nine o'clock as well? We have a rule that we set up when we first moved to New York. So when we first moved to New York in 2007, believe that, believe that, actually let me take it again. We set, when Emily and I first moved to New York in 2017, use that. We Emily had a job. I was like, I'm following my dreams. I was going out doing open mics, staying out late till 4 a.m. coming home. And I was playing a lot of Halo at night, okay. And I was playing Halo. I liked them. From that was the biggest reaction he's liking that. Yeah. I was really good. I believe you. I got really, really good at Halo. And I would play so much that like the languages in my ear would change, you know, like it was time for someone in China to be like playing at a reasonable hour. And Emily eventually was like, I have a fucking day job that I do not like. I'm supporting both of us. This is kind of bullshit that you're sleeping all day and you're playing video games all night. New rule. We go to bed at the same time every day. I love her. And since, since 2007, 2008, we have stuck to that every single night that we've been together. We go to bed at the exact same time. And it used to benefit her because she had a day job. And now it benefits me because you know, for work, you sometimes have to get up at 5 a.m. to go to set or whatever. That's usually when you wake up. So she's going to bed with me at like 8 p.m. and stuff. Yeah. I really, really love Emily. I think she's so fucking cool and brilliant. But what is your, what is your favorite thing about her if you had to pick? You know what, she has this thing where Emily's, I mean, here's my opinion on her is not objective. Obviously, I truly think she's the coolest, best person I've ever met. I really believe that. But it's, it is objective, but people do feel that way about her. I tell Emily this. I'm like, people feel like there's some like magic about you. There is. There is. She's really fucking cool. Yeah. People really fall in love with her immediately. What I love most about her is that the parts of her that she shows me, that she doesn't show anybody else, you know, like, and it took me years to get there. She's very, she's very good with people and she's also very good at connecting with people and giving the parts like no one would say Emily's closed off, right? She's very emotionally open. However, there is some curation to it. There is some stuff that other people don't get to see of Emily. And I'm the only person in the world that gets to see it. I find that to be really magical. The other thing I love is she's such a brilliant writer. And I love that I'm the first person in the world that gets to read her writing. So I'll read something she wrote. And I'm like, you were just in that. That's what you were doing that day. I was trying to write like pretty terrible stand-up. And you wrote something that's like a piece of you and a PDF like it's pretty magical. So she just wrote this beautiful script that I've thought about every day since I read it. It's truly one of the best things I've ever read and it's one of the most personal things she's ever written. It's really fucking fucked up and messy. And that's what I love is that she has that stuff in her, the thorny, spiky stuff, emotionally spiky stuff that most people don't get to see that I get to see. She has one of my favorite qualities that I've gotten it's been more time with her than with you, but I think just based on the things that she's told me about the things you guys do together and stuff, I think that you have as well. But she has, it's one of my favorite qualities in any type of relationship that I have in my life that I'm always looking for, which is curiosity and enjoyment. She's very curious and she wants to know about things in a genuine way. She genuinely cares about people. I love curiosity. I think like curiosity about stuff and places and wanting to try new restaurants and wanting to like watch new things and when someone brings something up, you can tell when you're with somebody and you bring something up that you care about and they're like indulging you and being like, sure, talk about that. Sure. Versus a genuinely curious person who's like, okay, now like who really locks in and wants to know the follow-ups. Yeah. Yeah. I love that about her. She's also to me the perfect mixture of head and heart where she's very emotional and leads with that, but also is like intellectual about the right things, you know, so like she's got, she's like, and she's the one who sort of taught me to have like structure during the day. Her day is very structured, but she's a really, really free spirit. So I learned like if I can have like rigid schedule within that, I can really like fly around. Yeah. Oh, unfortunately something I probably need to hear right now. I don't know. There's just something. No, I'm not. I'm really not trying to push it because I think it's different for everyone. I'm from a nocturnal family, you know, like in Pakistan, we don't eat dinner till 9pm at the earliest. Yeah. Generally 10pm. My mom's up till 2am every night, even now, like New Year's Eve, they're out later than I am.
The night is so great. It is really great to be up at like two in the morning and stuff, you know. It's a really like magical time. It is a magical time and I do love it. I think I could get better. I actually have gotten better in some ways. But yeah, I think schedule would benefit me right now. I did something kind of cool last night and just trigger warning for you listening. This is guy who has a little bit of money behavior and I understand that. We're always apologizing for it. Oh yeah, I feel bad. (laughing) I am really sorry. This wasn't supposed to happen to me and I totally acknowledged that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I feel bad about it. The world is a dumpster fire, but I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay. I made a little money, I'm sorry. Sorry. I do feel bad about it, but I was sorry. I donate, I donate. I donate. I donate you guys. I post the receipts on the video right here. Just pictures of receipts. I got home on a Sunday. I ended up doing a couple spots at Union Hall. I was just gonna go watch a friend show and then they were like, can you do a set? And I was like, for sure, I haven't done seeing it up in a minute. So I was doing some new stuff, it was super fun. Stayed out, did you kale? I did pretty good. I would say I maybe did like a B, but it was all new stuff. So I felt excited about it. You know those ones where you're like, if I had done some older stuff, I would have like, I feel like I would have murdered and it would have felt a different kind of good. Sure, but this kind of good is better. It is a better good. Yeah. So I felt I was having a good time and I enjoyed it and I talked to some, I met a new comic that I hadn't met before in the bar after and we chatted for a while. Having a good night, I was a 45 minute walk from home, walked home. Oh my God, you're a superhero. Oh, I love it. In this weather? You bundle, this is my favorite time of year to walk. Really? You bundle up and you fucking go. It's awesome. I cannot handle the cold. Do you put on a big coat in a scarf, Camille? You're not okay. Not okay. Look at me, I'm not built for this weather. I'm like equator people. I love it. I love it and I love why. It's my favorite time of year to walk in New York because everyone is, everyone's wearing really cute outfits but everyone's like, if they're walking with someone they love they're like touching a lot and it's very beautiful and pretty. I like just walking around smiling at people that are holding each other. I'm like, oh look at you guys. Oh my God, that's beautiful. I love it. But here's what I did that was awesome. I was in bed and I really wanted to order McDonald's because I got a little stoned and I was hungry as fuck and I was like, it's only gonna keep you up later and you're gonna feel bad. Like your stomach is going to hurt in the morning if you eat McDonald's right now. So I was like, don't do that. And instead I got a little more stoned. And right before I went to sleep, I high ordered breakfast for myself to get delivered to the apartment. - Strong mood. - Like 15 minutes after I knew I would be getting in the shower. So I was like, I'll get up. I'll get in the shower. I'll be excited that my food is coming. And I ordered bacon and I ordered bacon and an avocado toast and like a jammy egg and an ice latte. It came the second I stepped out of the shower and then I just sat on my couch and ate it and I was like, this is the coolest thing I've ever done for myself. I don't even think that's rich people behavior. - It was a $45 bacon and avocado. It was like, I spent $45 on it. - Yeah. - That's not appropriate. - No. - But I have it like that. (laughing) - He has $45. - I've got $45. - Anytime I want to spend $45, I can do it. - You don't even think about it, do you? - No, I did, sometimes in last night was one of them. Sometimes I do see the number of something I'm about to do. - It feels ridiculous. - And I think about how poor I was my whole life until like three years ago. - Yeah. - And I go, there's just little moments that I go like, that is fucking crazy. This would have ruined your life four years ago. Like you would have ruined your month by doing this. You know what I mean, like $45 can ruin my month. - Of course. - In a different time of my life. - Totally, I remember when I had like, Emily and I had less than $20 in the bank. So we had to find an ATM that gave $10 bills. So we could get money out. - Truly, I mean, it was like, I overdrafted my, the North and Wells McDonald's in Chicago. - Yeah. - I overdrafted on McChickens. - Uh-huh. - Not a small amount of stuff. - That should be the name of your special. - Overdrafting on McChickens. - Yeah. (laughing) - Or your memoir. - Yeah. - I did, dude. It was so, and they were, you know, what? $1.60 or something. It's like really humiliating. - Yeah, it is, it is. I remember my roommate and I, he had, we had a Burger King across the street and they had this thing where for a dollar, you could get two tacos and we would get that and each have one taco. They had a tacos for all. - Okay, that was like what? - They had tacos for a moment. They tried. - Yeah. - You know when Taco Bell was really like making moves, people were like, oh, we should, Taco Bell had a heyday. Like the Yokeiro Taco Bell era. - No, they were big. - Yeah, is that, is that like, are you too young for that era? - I don't remember that. I remember the Chihuahua. - Yeah. - Having a big cultural moment. - He was like that? - He was like, okay, I remember him. - I don't remember the his phrase, but I remember him. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. So during then they were like sort of the, I would say they were the eminent, the pre-evident, you know, the biggest, coolest, fast food place. - Yeah. - Then a subway had a moment and they really, they really ran into a wall. - Well, they picked the wrong guy. - They picked the wrong guy. First of all, first of all, why that guy? He's a charisma black hole. - Right, he was an interesting guy. - But just 'cause he lost the way eating the sandwiches. - I wouldn't clarify that him being a charisma black hole is not the worst thing about him. - No. - There are other much worse things about him. - No, being fat, et cetera. (laughing) - Yeah, listen, I've never been fat. Where's my medal? - Wouldn't do it. - Yeah. (laughing) But I don't know why that's the guy they picked. - I don't know. - He's such a blank wall. Yeah. - Are you a brand ambassador for any brands? I know you've come some. - Couple. - Couple. - What are they? - Quest, protein products. - Really? - Yeah, I'm a brand ambassador for Quest. - I didn't know this. - Yeah, I mean, I've done commercials for 'em. - Yeah. - And for direct TV. They're really, they're really coming back. (laughing) - Well, now they've got, come in, I mean, things are moving in my direction. - That's really their marketing slogan right now. We're really coming back. - We're coming back. - Yeah, guys, we're coming back. - So those are the two that I'm doing currently. For a long time, I didn't do any of that. And now I'm like, everybody's shameless. Everyone's doing that. - The concept of selling. I mean, I've talked about it on this show. This shows a prime example of how selling out is back. It's what, it's kind of the impetus of this show is selling out. I'm here to read ads and make money. - What are you, what are your ads? What are you doing? - Oh God, I mean, we are doing Squarespace, Ollipop. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot that we've done in the past like smaller ones, but we're trying to move into doing like bigger partnerships for longer times. - I do have a rule that I don't, I want to endorse a product that I genuinely don't believe in. So like Quest, you know, I do, - Yeah. - I do, I've been eating their products for years and Direct TV is a service I'm aware of. (laughing) - Do you know what's funny though? Is we do the ad reads on this show in a very silly way and sometimes brands will get upset and I'm like, - This is better. - People are only watching because of how I'm doing it. - Yeah. - I know you wanna be precious about the brand. - Yeah. - I'm telling you, if you let me be silly, more people will walk away from this, remembering the name of your thing. - Yeah. - Then you know what I'm saying? - Yeah, I think Conan's very good at that. Like Conan does all, you know, all his ad reads are very funny and he makes fun of the products. And I think he's like, you know, he's doing great. - Yeah, he's okay, Conan. - Yeah, Conan's doing okay. - Yeah, he's had like a fine career. - Yeah, you know, I think of this. Conan, to me, is the platonic ideal of how like a straight old white man comedian ages. - Yeah. - Because so many of them to fucking disappoint us. You know, it's over and over. Like all my comedy heroes have like fallen. - Yeah. - And then Conan is like truly growing and learning and like getting better at what he does and deepening. And so it's weird to say to be proud of someone that it's like the reason I do stand up. But I'm proud that he's like one of my inspirations. - He's one of your inspirations. I really think, and if he, here's the real secret that I would tell a lot of old white guys, if he does have bad opinions, and I don't think he does, if he does, he's keeping it to himself. And that is always an option. - That is shut the fuck up. - Shut the fuck up. - Shut up. You know what I love? I hate to bring this up again. The Riyadh comedy festival. (laughing) It's gonna be my favorite story of the year. And my friend of mine's having a New Year's Eve party where they're like, you have to dress as like a cultural moment. I'm definitely going as the Riyadh comedy festival. - Yeah. - I've had so many gifts to give. I love how like a rocked some people were by the reaction to that and just kept bringing it up and like defending themselves. It's like, you just got to shut up and move on. That's the only way out of this. I also love that some of them like try to donate the money and then the people they're donating it to were like, we don't want it. (laughing) - Hey man, we're gonna keep it, keep it, keep it. And some of them weren't even like, we're gonna donate all of it. Some of them like, we're gonna donate. Not, they didn't say a number of percentage. - Some of it's getting donated. - Do you know the numbers? - I know some of the numbers. - I don't know the numbers. - I know a couple. - I know what people got paid. - Yeah, that's what I mean. - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - What's the biggest number you've heard? - I heard 600. - Oh, it was the biggest one I heard personally. - Three million. - You're kidding. - For one set. - Yeah, you started to think about your values because. (laughing) - You think who among us, you know? We all have blood on our hands. - Yeah. - So sometimes you can't name the exact guy whose blood it is, like in the React comedy festival you can. You could literally name the guy whose blood it is. - I know the guy. (laughing) - But for three million, I'm able to forget. - Yeah. - Three million, I mean. - That's the thing is when I've heard, I think there's a couple people who got more than that. I know a friend of mine.
who turned down a million for it. - Yeah. - For one sec, and he turned it down, which I think was obviously, there's no number I could have done it for. - Because for me, I'm getting shit from, first of all, it's just morally wrong. - Also on Pakistani and Pakistan. - We're all standing up in class. - Thank you. - We all stand up in class later. - Thank you. - Put that in later. - Put that in like a hundred people's class. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. 'Cause first of all, obviously I'm getting shit here as I should have gotten. But also on Pakistani and Pakistan has a very specific relationship without the Arabian, so I'm getting shit there too. So there's just no amount of money I could have done it for. I would not have done it for $1 billion. I would not have done it. - I believe you. I believe you. At the end of the day, I would like to actually, there's so many people I've had this thought a lot lately. I would like to just grab a lot of people very firmly by their shoulders and say, you do know you're gonna die, right? (laughing) 'Cause people seem to be forgetting this, and I'm like at the end of the day, you're gonna die, and you're gonna have to either take into the afterlife if that's a thing or leave behind the idea of who you were and what you stood for. And at a certain level, whether or not you have a 17th home while you're here, it's not worth it. - I genuinely think, like now we're obviously in a world. This is not a deep insight or anything. In a world that is run by a very small handful of extremely rich people. I genuinely think it is an undiagnosed mental illness to want money that's more than a certain amount. Like these people who are competing each other have the most, I think there are two undiagnosed mental illnesses that I think genuinely could be in the DSM. One is these billionaires who wanna make more money, which is crazy, for me, one billion is enough. Like I don't want any more than one billion dollars. - Call me humble, but I'll settle for a billion. - I don't know what I do with anything, 1.5? Oh, that's a waste. - Yeah, I don't know what to do with that extra 500 million. But, and the other undiagnosed mental illness I think is, and Emily, Emily talks about this too, and Emily, she's a trained therapist. Child actors who got really famous, super young, and what that did to them, I think is also an undiagnosed mental illness. There's no name for it. - 100%. - But people who grew up in the public limelight like that, I think got broken in kind of specific similar ways. - Yeah, it's child abuse. I mean, the, what those kids go through, and the way that adults talk to them, the positions they put them in, the way that they treat them, is insanely inappropriate. It's crazy. - Yeah, the way they, I mean, you know, the way we talked about Britney Spears has always been insane, from the beginning, like-- - Sure I go. - Oh, she was like 16 when she like showed up, right? And people have been talking about her weirdly, that entire time. - Yeah, yeah, not you and me though. I think my, you know, my hands are clean. (upbeat music) - Folks, I'm a lifelong soda lover, and today, hold on, please. Today I want to tell you a little about our good friends at Ollipop. Ollipop is a new kind of soda that combines the classic soda taste with the benefits of a functional ingredient and blended support digestive health, and I got to tell you their cream soda is absolutely incredible. It really is, I have it at my house for real. Two out of three Americans say they suffer from digestive issues. And 95% of Americans don't get the daily recommended amount of fiber. 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Works on any flavor, any retailer, including the yeti limited edition cans, just visit drinkolypop.com/sotrue. (coughing) Leave it in, I'm human. Ollipop is sold online, drinkolypop.com plus Amazon, and available in almost 50,000 retailers nationwide, including Costco, Walmart, Target, Publix, Whole Foods, Groger, and H.E.B. Thank you, Ollipop. Have you gotten in trouble? Have you gotten in trouble for anything? Like, if you had any like big trouble moments where you're like, "Oh boy, call the bubbles this, "we're in trouble." Have I gotten in trouble for anything? No, I don't think so, not like that. I know. The biggest thing I had that I was like, this is a moment, is, I mean, I talk about it and the special was like, you know, I got like love for a role and there was like a really weird backlash to it. I would say, and I do not, I fault them, I don't fault myself, but that is the biggest like thing reaction that I've had to deal with. I think that's the biggest one. Beyond that, I don't think I've gotten any of my opinions that I think might be like on the line, I keep to myself. I genuinely don't think I have any like, I try, you know, I try to be pretty reasonable about things. Yeah, I'm in trouble every week. What are you doing? Oh, I'm in trouble every week. I'm always in trouble for something on the show. But part of the reason I'm in trouble every week is what's never my fault. I buy that, I believe that. Now, sometimes it is, sometimes I just, you know, when you talk this much, it's an hour every single week and then additional of like actually doing shows and stuff. Yeah, I stumble into some things that I'm like, yeah, I don't know if I necessarily believe to that. I was maybe bored. But most of the problem is I have a large audience of two very sensitive groups. One is Gen Z and one is Tinder Queers. And Tinder Queers are, whew. Tinder Queers, I love them. They pay my bills. Of course they do. Tinder Queers. Tinder Queers. What is that? This is like, Tinder Queers are like a soft group of people living in a reality that is not mine. They're just very like, they're very like, you should never say anything that could upset anybody. I got it. You know, it's just very like, very like. Sure. Why would you say that? That could hurt someone. And I'm like, because it was funny. Yeah, because I'm kidding around. Well, the other adjustment that has to happen that I've had to deal with and I'm sure you're dealing with this is like, soon it's you as a comedian, your job is to present your opinions and present them in a way that is funny and possibly a little bit controversial. Like, that's what kind of the job is. Then as you become known above a certain line, suddenly those things are viewed with a different lens and now you're become like, like, I think you have this where people look to you as like, some sort of aspirational figure. Like, they sort of look to you. They'd really do, I think, as like someone who's like speaking for them or is like some sort of like, modern day philosopher or something. But like, people look to you to have certain opinions or lead the way about certain things. They really do and that's a lot of pressure. They want us to, I've talked about this a lot but they want us to be their voice about things. They want us to like, they want us to be like, fuck Donald Trump and fuck ICE and all these things that I do. And you're a pro-bot those things. And I love those guys, you know, because the ICE is law enforcement, they're doing their jobs. No kidding kidding. I, yeah, I do, I am outspoken and I do have big opinions and they want you to do that. But then the second one of your big opinions brushes up against their special thing. Yes. All of a sudden it's like, well, why would you say that? And it's like, 'cause you asked me to. Right, you just have to like, intention is important. Like, I really think that. And, you know, and what you can joke about and not joke about does change at the times. Like, for instance, when I was started doing stand-up back in, bleep this, 2002. (laughing) Oh, shit. Sorry. (laughing) I've definitely bleeped that. (laughing) I don't even want people to see that expression on your face. Put like a car filter on it. You know the show cops? That was a show. (laughing) From the distant history. So like, when I was doing it, you know, people could do like ironically, people could like do like, anti-Jewish jokes, ironically. And it was received that way. And I'm saying it was right or wrong back then, but I'm saying it was more acceptable to do that and see the irony of it, right? And now we're in an era where I don't think you can do that because Nazis are legitimately back. So that changes, right? And also I think like, you know, people, and I never obviously was on board for this, like people would make a lot more rape jokes back then. And now we've understood like, you know, even that stuff is harmful, like normalizing it in any way. But, and keeping up with what is appropriate now, which maybe was never appropriate, but now we're, it's more in the conversation that it's not appropriate. I think it is part of our job to be aware of that. But also, I mean, you know, it's like some of this stuff you've said that you've gotten in trouble for. I think it's like probably fair game. - Yeah, but also I think, I don't, you know, there's this question sometimes like, how is this joke gonna age or how will your comedy age? - You can't really, I don't care. - It doesn't, yeah, it's a moment in time, yeah. - Because if you're making a certain type of joke in a moment where that's what's being discussed, and then later on we decide as a culture, maybe correctly, maybe progressively, that we shouldn't be talking like that about those things. Comedians are a part of like, forming and, you know, testing the boundaries and seeing where we should go. So I don't, I'm not mad at comedians who were making jokes back then that I wouldn't make now. I'm like, they were helping inform where we were going and what we should be talking about. - This happens a lot with younger people who watch movies from the 80s and 90s, and they sort of get like, offended by a lot of stuff in there, you know? And you're like, it's just, that's what was, that's what was in the soup back then. Everything we're making is like a reaction or comment on those.
those times. You can't guess how weird things are gonna go. - Yeah, we moved past it, and we certainly don't have to talk about it if you don't want to, but the thing about you getting really buff for a role and people getting upset about it. - Yeah. - I wonder, I mean, as somebody whose body is just constantly commented on all the time, - Really is that right? - All the time. No matter what's happening. If I've lost a little bit of weight, I'm hearing about it in the DMs. But yeah, as somebody who constantly has their body commented on by it, seemingly everybody, was that like difficult for you or were you just like, I am right? They're being weird. - No, I was a fucking nightmare. - Yeah. - It was as someone who grew up, I had almost my entire life, very, very, I don't know how to put this, a tough relationship with my own appearance. Since I was a little kid, part of the problem was when I was like a little kid, when I was like five, zero to six, I was the most gorgeous kid you've ever seen, like I was fucking beautiful. That's towards the end of it, with that picture you were looking at. - He's adorable, the sky, I love this guy. - Yeah, yeah, okay. So that's like, it's like-- - It's a kiddie. - I was really, really, very cute. And to the point where people on the street would make jokes about wanting to kidnap me. - Sure. - Like I'd go into a shop and they'd be like, "I'm gonna put you in my dungeon." And it was life, I was so gorgeous that life was like terrifying for me, okay? I remember I visited with my aunt too. I went to Bangkok and for some reason, Thai people just really were picking up what I was putting down. - They were fucking with you, yeah. - Like a five-year-old, they were fucking with this. - They were like in the energy, yeah. - And then I went from like just like a gorgeous, gorgeous boy to like a true demon. Like my head grew to this size. My body stayed the same size. The neck got super long. I know his group before anything else. And so whatever it was, from that point on, I just thought of myself as being very ugly. And it took me years and years to get to the point where I was like, okay, with how I looked, like how I looked was way too important to me. It's still, it still probably is. But it took years and years to get past that all through my 20s and even through my 30s that took a while for me to be okay. Like there were times when I was like 10-11 where I wouldn't go to a store 'cause I thought they wouldn't sell me stuff because I was too ugly. It was really, really very intense. - Yeah. - And so also my 20s and 30s to like work through it and be like it's like the way I look also, it doesn't matter how I look, all that kind of stuff. And so then to then hit my 40s and suddenly have that come back in such a public and strong way, really got at like what to me genuinely was like deep childhood trauma. - Yeah. - And I could, I don't want to go into details about what I think was behind that. And the way it happened was, so you know, I did this movie, I released pictures of myself looking the way I looked and it was really, really like good. Like people really liked that. Then COVID hit, we were all in the house and then January 2021. So now this is a year after I released the original pictures and everybody was very excited. There was a picture of me sitting across from Emily at Christmas and I have like a gingerbread house next to me and I'm just sitting there and I'm not even, and for some reason people didn't like the way my jawline looked or something. People think I've gotten like work done, I have not ever gotten any work done. I got Botox in my jaw once because I grind my teeth at night and they were like, do you want us to do your forehead? And I was like, sure, have at it. (laughing) I'll never do it again. - Hey, everyone relax, one time is nothing. - Yeah, and it was a long time ago and I hated it. I hated how I looked and how I felt. - Yeah. - So Emily and I, this is like the deep COVID, I'm full of fear because my wife is in a high risk group. We get super high and we're watching The Crow, which is one of my favorite movies, you know, as a kid. Watching it again, yeah, he was so cool. And I'm afraid of my text because I'm sorry about what's happening online. And I was like, I'm super high, I look and it's literally thousands of people on Twitter making fun of my face, of how I look. So being high in that state and watching that scroll was like really genuinely very, very difficult and it continued for a while, it continued for a couple of days. And I think that in the soup at that time was, you know, a year of staying inside, people being like 20, 20 sucks, 20, 20 sucks and suddenly now it's 20, 21, things haven't changed. We don't have a vaccine, people are still sucks. So I think people were just firing shit around. That was really, really horrible. And again, you know, people have bigger problems. I want to, people. - No, they don't. - Yeah, this is the biggest thing. - I mean, it was genuinely, really, really awful. So that was very, very tough and really like working through it with my therapist a lot. And it's still something that kind of comes up, you know, if you look at, if you, if you look at comments on whenever I post anything, if you look at comments, someone will talk about like that I fucked up my face or something, which obviously I haven't ever got any work done. This is just how I look when I'm like a little skinnier. Yeah, really, really hard, really, really, really horrible. Were you when, like that first when you guys are, when you're high and your friend texted you, did you see it and then put the phone away? - No. - Or did you really dive in? - I dove in, yeah, that's tough. - I dove in, I swam in it. And then eventually Emily was like, do not be on your phone. And I was like, okay, just tell me if it's still happening. And the next day I woke up, I was like, is this still happening? She's like, yeah, it's still happening. All day I kept checking in, because it's still happening. It's still happening. I was, it was like the number one trending thing. It was like a thing for it. And then the next day I woke up and I was like, is this still happening? So it was like two days and then they moved on to the next target. There was right around that time, there was a dad, I don't know if you remembered this, who was like shitty to his kid about beans or something. Do you remember what I'm talking about? - Very vaguely, it was like bean dad. - Bean dad, yeah. (laughing) - I owe a debt of gratitude to fucking bean dad. - Cause he moved, cause he moved everyone then was like, oh, bean dad now. And so bean dad got it and they moved off of me. The hordes moved off of me, went after bean dad, what the fucking zombies. - They left my appearance alone and moved on to the behaviors of bean dad. - Yes, thank God. - Thank God. I genuinely want to send him a check for like $300. I'd be like, thank you so much, man. - You should. - He's probably needed. - Yeah, and I don't remember, do you remember? - Yeah, there it is. - So he tweeted, yes. So yesterday my daughter, nine, was hungry and I was doing a jigsaw puzzle. So I said over my shoulder, make some baked beans. She said how, like all kids do when they want you to do it. So I said, open a can and put it in pot. - She brought me the can and said, open it how. And then there was more from that. But yeah, being dead. - What I love is he had to get it in the night number of characters. So open the can and put it in pot. - Put it in a pot. - Put it in a pot. - Yeah. - Didn't have the right number of letters for it. I love that. - He inadvertently talked to the way I talk. (laughing) - Put it in pot. - Put it in pot. - Put it in pot. - Yeah, so at this point, she said, I don't want baked beans and marched off. Apocalypse Dad went into full the road mode. Sweetheart, neither of us will eat another bite today until we get into this can of beans. She screamed, ah, like Lucy Van Pelt. She read a book for a while. Whatever he goes on, who fucking cares? (laughing) Ultimately you read this and you go, who cares? - This is January 2nd. So this is like who, bean dad, like bean dad come. He was my, he was my meat shield, green dad, green dad was like, bean dad was like, he know what, I got you buddy. He jumped in front of the bullets. Wouldn't it be awesome if we found out that he's like a huge Camille fan and he literally did this on purpose? - Oh my God, how great would that be? - I've had it with the Camille fan. (laughing) My daughter's a dumb bitch. - I think he looks fine. I thought I looked fine in that picture. I posted it 'cause I was like, I look pretty good. Look how sharp my jawline looks. That's why I posted that one. I auditioned a bunch of pictures. I wasn't like, you know, not a monster. - I looked at all the pictures. I thought this one looks nice. - This one would be good. - Yeah. - Well, that's the thing about the internet that's so difficult is that whenever you post the thing that's gonna get you in trouble, you didn't think you didn't think. - You're like, oh, this is, yeah, that's a thing. - Yeah. - That's how I look. - Yeah, and still now there's some, I don't watch SpongeBob, I was too old for it, but there's like one character who got like at some point, must have gotten some work done or something. And he doesn't look like, is it squid? - You're referring to handsome squid word. - Handsome squid word. - Yes. - You'll see handsome squid word. Whenever I post anything, you'll see a couple of handsome squid words in the comments. - Well, you know what? That's a guy whose name starts with handsome. - Yeah. - So that's actually pretty nice. - I think they're using it ironically. - I don't think so. (laughing) - I think it's fucking sarcastic. - You're my friend and I'm gonna start calling you handsome Kumail. (laughing) I'm taking it back. - There, I got like, oh god, I got like, I shrank from that 'cause that picture, I see anytime I post anything, that fucking picture. And there's another one of the handsome squid word, squid word like dancing or something. I see those two, all the fucking god damn time. I haven't seen that one actually. - Oh yeah. - I look at him and be like, "Hey, that's a good looking squid word." - He's a good looking squid word. My thing that I get annoyed by but not mad at is that anytime someone sees any fat person doing anything on the internet and god help me if they have glasses, any fat person. They're like, they're like, the comments will be tagging me and be like, who look Caleb here and out? Or something, I'm like, this is just a fat person. Leave me alone, they don't have to be gay or white, they don't have to be, if they are gay.
gay white and have glasses, we're both having a day, but like any fat person doing anything they're like not the Caleb Heron drag. I'm like, what are you talking about? It's just faces are totally different. It is one fat person dancing. I hate it. I hate it. I'm like, you don't want to tag me in every fat person. There's actually a lot of fat people. It's kind of like a problem. There's so, there's so many fat people. It's like, you don't need to tag me in every one of them. I hate it. Handsome Squidward. Okay. Yeah. So that's to me, that's like the face of my oppressor is handsome Squidward. Fuck handsome Squidward. What did happen in that episode? I've never even looked it up. I haven't even been able to Google that. Why does he look like that? He gets a role in a movie and he gets really buff. Yeah. Could you imagine it's so specific? Oh, no, no. No. No. No. I don't know what happens to him. But, you know, the important thing is when you're getting bullied, you're getting bullied with a guy whose name starts with handsome. And that's what I would cling on to. Okay. That's how I would handle it. I've gotten way better at it just because you, you know, now it's been four years, over four years of it. You sort of go, all right. This is what it is. It becomes normalized, you know. But I still, I still get it all the time. Yeah. Like yesterday, I was on Colbert and I had a clip that those sort of going around. And it was all really nice. A lot of nice things. The only comment I remember is he always looks tired. Well, let's tell you one other thing. Yeah, it's so, it's so mean. That's also mean because I am tired. Oh, yeah, man. You do a fucking press gauntlet. You do Colbert as the sixth thing that day. I did fucking GMA that morning at 6 a.m. And now I'm doing Colbert at night. I am tired. I am tired. How would you hold up? Yeah, you cool bear wouldn't even fucking book you. Yeah. You're like, I'm doing better with it. Colbert with my, yeah. Colbert wouldn't spit on you. I need some water. I went to see my friend play Colbert once. And they, I had to like sit in the audience, which being, I don't know if you, if anyone listening has ever been an audience member at a late night show, they treat you like cattle. It's, I don't mean to say this, but this is probably bad, but I can't imagine Guantanamo is much better than that. Can't be. I mean, it was horrific my experience. They, they heard you in like, you're not allowed to go to the bathroom. No, they're mean to you. You're not allowed to be on your phone at all. Yeah. Even when there's a break, I pulled my phone out at one point. I mean, I, they know that I'm there to see the artist. And I put up my phone. I'm not taking a picture. I'm not 12. No. I'm checking like my. I'm special. I'm not like all these other people who came in from Idaho. 100% 100% 100% feel that way. Oh, good. I'm like, I can check my text in here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no, you don't understand. The rules do not actually do not apply to me in this scenario. I do feel like completely agree. I really agree. Like if I go to a movie premiere, I should be able to pull out my phone. I'm not going to fucking post a clip from Avatar on Instagram. I'm like, no, because the rule is stupid for everybody, but I understand the general public will do things they shouldn't. I'll take videos and post pictures. Here's the other thing that I do not do what other people get in trouble for it. You know, other people get in trouble for it. We're like, I still see, and it is a bad luck. But I understand we're like, you know, at Delta, my flight got canceled and you fucking did this. Fuck, you know, all that celebrities do it. Yeah. People get upset at them. And I'm like, they just have the privilege of a major corporation treating you the way everyone should be treated. Yeah. Like everybody should be treated well by these massive corporations. They just have the privilege of being able to use their leverage to be able to get that kind of response, that kind of customer service from a major corporation. And that's what that's what you're upset about. Do you know, though, that this is my number one rule for myself? I don't want to do it. I won't do it. I've never done it. I will not. Never done it. It's my chance to see me at my lowest when we're on tour or something. And some airline has completely fucked us bad luck or some hotel has completely fucked us. We booked the rooms. We can we double confirm. Now they don't have a room bad luck. All of it. I will never ever. I've typed out the Instagram story before deleted it and shut my phone. Like, that is my only rule for myself. It's so it's such a bad luck. I just mean I understand why they're because you've had the foresight, you know, because when you are in that situation, it fucking sucks. It's horrible. It's horrible. And you're like, you have the reaction that anyone would have, which is I paid for a service. You can't do this. Like you can't, but they can. They do. And I have and I have a recourse that if I posted, they would get in shape quickly. But I don't do it. Because I'm like, that's the one thing you can't do. You can't be the guy that's like, at Delta, guess I'll have to take my business elsewhere. It's like stop, stop, stop. Genuinely Delta does not care. No. Well, none of them do. We used to have customer service in this country, Camille. We used to have a country with customers service. We used to, I do want to say Delta is pretty good. I'm happy with that. I like Delta. They're my, they're my, I have the least problems with them. And that's the best I can say about any company at this point. I will pick Delta. Delta 100% of the time if left in my own devices. Yeah. Well, I also don't have a choice. Delta could wrong me a million times because they are the only airport that has a lounge in Kansas City, which is like one of my biggest airports that I fly to. Oh. So I have to be a Delta boy. Yeah. I'm not, I don't have a choice. I think Delta is pretty solid. It is. But overall, all these companies, they'll do whatever they want to you. I've had plenty of, I've had multiple airlines just like, they undersell a flight. So they cancel it and put me on one three hours later. And I'm like, Hey, that sounds like a you problem. Run the fucking flight. That's not on me. I've gone to a movie theater where I was the only guy who bought a ticket for this movie. And they're like, do you really want to watch it? I'm like, actually, I do really want to. I want to be alone in a movie theater watching this movie. That is one of the most glamorous things that I've had that happen a couple times where I'm the one guy in the theater. How exciting. It's incredible. It feels like the apocalypse and you're just there watching whatever. Yeah. It feels like day after tomorrow where you're like, this is how I would live if everyone else went. Yeah, if everybody else went, I would go to movie theaters and watch all the movies I want to see in theaters. Yeah, for like five days, then I kill myself. How long would I go? I'm not trying to survive 100% not trying to survive. No, like I think what I would do is, yeah, eat as much as I possibly could. I'd probably track down some of the people who are posting the handsome Squidward memes and like probably laugh on their dead bodies because they're dead, right? Of course. Yeah, yeah. Watch as many movies as I could. And then four or five days later, it'll be like, yeah, pretty good run time to check out time to check out. I wouldn't hang around. If I'm in my house alone for more than seven hours, I start having a level of conversation with myself that you wouldn't believe out loud. When Emily's out of town, I am talking to my cat as if like, she's a human being. Well, should we get breakfast? I think so. It's truly like, it's psychoshit. Yeah. I have to, I don't know if you have to do this, but this morning I was laughing at myself because I had to do it this morning. I have to talk to myself out loud in a crazy way to get anything done. What do you mean? You have to get like, go do this. No, I have to get started. Like this morning, I was laying in bed. My alarm had gone off. And so you're setting in alarm? Well, today you set it alarm for this. I assume. Yes. Okay. Well, I said in the alarm, most days, what do you set it for? What time? My alarm. It depends on what I have for the day. Like if I have a super late night, I'll set it for like nine thirty. Oh, really? So you're up by nine thirty, even if it's even if it's the late night. These days, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there, you know, when a couple of years ago, I was sleeping until, if I had a day off, I'm sleeping till 11 12. I don't do that anymore. I can't really do it anymore. Yeah. I can't adjust my sleep time. But what were you saying? You were laying in bed today. I'm like, I have to talk to myself crazy out loud to get anything done. I was laying in bed. And I was like, I literally had to stay out loud. Caleb, it's enough, man. Get in the shower. Like I have to talk to myself that way. I have to be like, you want to get a shower before the breakfast gets here? Or else you'll be rushing to come out? Get off. This is ridiculous. Let's go. Wait, the breakfast thing happened today. This morning. Oh my God. What a day you're having. I brought that energy to you. Great breakfast. And you get to talk to me. I mean, that's a good day. It's a good day. We were supposed to have an 8 a.m. record today with Mateo, and I just what? Yeah. Insane. And he was down for it. And I had, I had, I had talked to Virginia who does the scheduling. And I was like, hey, maybe we find if there's any time on this day, he wasn't available. I, I eventually like two days ago texted Mateo personally, because you know, we go through the teams to be nice. But I was like, I was like Mateo, I can't, what, what else do you have brother? Yeah, I cannot do. 8 a.m. is, and I'm up at 6 30. 8 a.m. is absurd. It's crazy. Cause we have you. And then we were, we have another episode after you today. So it was going to be three episodes starting at 8 a.m. too much. I was like, I'm not a coal miner. This is not, I can't work like this. So I can, we rescheduled it. Thank God. Yeah. So I got to have my breakfast. But I do have to talk to myself crazy. I mean, the number of like speeches like that that I have to give myself is really astronomical. Well, I think at least you understand what you have to do, you know, yeah. Let me ask you this. Say no. How's yourself talk? Self talk, mostly positive, mostly positive. Only in moments of like, true, we need to get stuff done. Do I have to go a little negative and go like, this is crazy. Get it together. But most of the time myself talk is, I've actually started practicing in the last year or so. Like talking very gently to myself out loud, which is very gay and therapy type, like therapist. What does that sound like? Like, it's very like, I'll be like, I'll be upset with myself because I haven't done something I was supposed to do or that I, I'm upset with myself that I haven't, I'll realize like, Oh, I haven't talked to that friend in a while and they just reached out to me again. They're being the first one to reach out again. I meant to fix that. And I'll start to get upset with myself and then out loud. I'll go like, It's okay, buddy. You're not in trouble. You're doing a good job. That's great. I'll talk to myself the way that you'd want to, it's something I either read or saw online or something about like talking to yourself the way that you would have wanted to be talked to when you were a kid and my mom talked to me like that and my dad did
not. So I have actually a good model of what it should look like from my mom. But, yeah, doing doing that kind of stuff, it actually like really weirdly, it will make me very emotional sometimes. Are you talking to yourself and then you get a little I'll I'll be gentle with myself and then I'll be like, I'll be like, oh my god. I can like wait that low key felt amazing. That is incredible. You don't ever do anything like that. So you don't have you you've never had a negative self talk issue really. Oh, I totally have. No, I'm doing much better. I'm doing much better. Okay. Yeah, I'm in a decent place with it these days. But I totally, oh my god, I my teens in early 20s. I was so mean to myself. Yeah. I really did not like myself at all. That's the thing. I've had the same thing. I still have to work on it. I think you're further along than I am because you don't even realize the tone with which you're talking yourself. You know, I didn't even realize it was negative until therapy. They were like, so how do you say this? You know, you're on set. You didn't do a good job. What do you say to yourself? And I'm like, oh, heinous shit. Oh, yeah. You don't even realize. It's that fucking Leo. We're in our locaprio scene and Hollywood. What the fuck is that once upon a time when he's in the trailer? He's like, you fucking no good. It's that. It's that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I try and be careful with that. But it is it is hard. It's just my default has always been that like since I can remember that's been my default. You know, and I think it does come from like for me, it was not not liking myself. And now I do actually like myself. It's probably been it's a recent thing last few years where I didn't even realize I didn't like myself. And now I do like myself. And I liked myself when I was 14 years old. Like just thinking of how I felt about myself when I was 14 and being able to articulate it now, like kind of breaks my heart for that like 14 year old, you know, a lot of it comes from like I think being raised in a very like conservative situation. There's a lot that you can do wrong or a lot that you can think wrong. So growing up thinking, well, there's something wrong with me because, you know, I find women attractive or whatever it is. Yeah. Well, that's partially true. Yeah. That's a moral failing. But it is a moral failing. I mean, when I was like 12, 13, 14, if I could like take that part of myself out, I would have opposite, but rock on. It's really cool to know we were going through some more stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because you know where I was raised, like even just thinking of a woman in a lustful way is a sin. And so you're real, you're like, oh, if I'm even saying, and it's impossible to not like, you know, the the the the force that has led to the survival of the species is like working its way through me. And I'm just like a 12-year-old. So I think that's where that came from. Me being like, I'm attracted to women. There's something wrong with me. And then it just becomes something wrong with me, something wrong with me. And only recently realizing that's probably the genesis of my like negative self-talk. That's really interesting. It's also like, you know, at a certain point, I was like, and nobody will ever have sex with me. Like I had times in like my teens where I was like, nobody's ever going to have sex with me ever because I also had the thing about how I looked and stuff. So all that, you know, it's too much. Puberty comes too early. It should come in your like 20s. Yeah, when you've had some like, yeah, you've had your feet on the ground. You've had a job, you know, like that kind of stuff. You want like, you want a nine to five before puberty hits you. Yeah. That's my big. I mean, it's a fucked up system. What's, what's so true to you, Camille? Okay. This is where I'm going to make enemies. Okay. I don't think there's, you should be allowed to taste ice cream at ice cream parlors. Oh my god. I think no other situation like you're at a restaurant. You're like, can I just like have two of the fries and see what they're like? Or can I have a bite of the pizza before I decide? Why is it that it's okay? In an ice cream party, just stand there. Then I got to stand there staring at a bucket with all the spoons of the entire neighborhood's been sucking on. I don't want that image in my head. You just see like Louis saliva at the bottom of that bucket that everybody's taking the tiny metal spoons and sucking on and putting it in there. And this came to me recently because there's a long line about one of those cool ice cream places. It's like Indonesian ice cream or something where it's not even technically ice cream. And there's a moment on the phone and there's a guy in the front of the line. And he's like bringing a spoon door. She's tasting. She's like, no, let me have another one. And he's getting another spoon, tasting another one. I'm done with it. Make your decision. You know what strawberry tastes like. I'm gonna say I'm shocked to hear this. I hadn't considered it. But I guess I do have a rule in my own body already. You get one. You could try an experimental flavor. And if you're not into it, go to Old Faithful. I think that's right. And I would say even, you know, I'm willing to relax it. It should never be more than three. And I think, look how you're being so generous. But I'll tell you 10 years old. I'll tell you the age of 10. You get three. Yeah. After 10, you know, I might agree to one. But after the age of 10, like, make your decision. I think it's one. And I think it's that's what it is. As you go, if there's a very experimental flavor on the thing that you've never seen, right, right? You can say, let me try that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then if you don't like it, you order something you know, you'll like, you don't get to ask to try chocolate. You don't get to ask to try strawberry. I think, you know, what, how about this? You can only try the experimental flavors. And there is a cap on the numbers. I, you can't try strawberry. You could, you could try like, you know, a popcorn ginger or whatever, which would probably be pretty good, by the way. It does sound pretty good. Yeah. Actually, hold on. I was opening. I did try to go to ice cream college. All right. No follow ups. No follow ups. What do you, what the fuck are you doing? There's a couple of ice cream colleges around the country. When you say ice cream college, I've never heard this two words together. They, they teach you how to make your own flavors. They teach you the business logistics side and how to run your own coffee shop. How much foot traffic should the store have? You, they teach you how to become an ice cream connoisseur and I, a maven. Yeah. And I wanted to do it. But I haven't found the time. I would like to do it still. There's a couple. There's one in, there's one in St. Louis. I think there's one in California. There's ice cream college in California. There's ice cream colleges and you should go. We should go together. Well, how long is it degree? Can we, how long does it take together? Couple days. Couple days. It's, it's not a call. No, come on. That's an online, that's a course. Please, please. I know, but they call it ice cream college to be fun. But I think we could learn a lot. I would totally go to ice cream college with you. Let's mix some flavors. I would make some flavor. There it is. Ready to turn your ice cream dream into reality. If you can dream it, if you dream it, we can make it. They've got seminars. Ice cream university. Oh my god. How to produce a soft serve frozen dessert. Beginner ice cream batch freezer hands. Right. That hands-on. That's on to be bolded too. Yes. Because it looks weird. Just like freezer hands. I don't know what that is. From concept to market, let's make your idea real. For over three decades, Malcolm Stogo, the Godfather of ice cream ice cream ice cream. Why? Work with them. That's why. God's walk amongst us. That's why. From our test kitchen in West Orange, New Jersey, if I had to guess where this guy Malcolm Stogo was from, it would have been that orange. He's, he's worked with hoggandas, loans, carvel, stony field farm. Base flavor development is $2,500 for one day. That's pretty expensive. Each additional flavor is $1,800. Yeah. $5,000. If you want to do five flavors and up to 10 test batches per flavor, I would pay that. I mean, we were saying, we're, you know, let's do it. Let's go. Can we, can we go up a little bit? I want to see. It says shop or like you can buy, like a whole whole shop. I want to see what they're selling. Oh my God. Ice cream university books. We should probably start there. Let's go to, I don't know. I'm not paced. It's kind of calling me to. Let's see what not paced is about. John, do her pistachio. Hey, it's not pretty basic. Pretty basic. Let's go to the books thing that you, let's see what these books are. Pistachio was $165. It's a, yeah, ice cream university books. Incredible ice cream. The ultimate ice cream mastery collection. The official manual dairy free ice cream and dessert seminar 825 bucks. So they are doing of course highway robbery. That's an expensive book. Let's go down a little ice cream galore. It is price to move. It was 50 and now it's 30. At that, at that price, you can't afford to not get ice cream galore cakes, novelties and more. I don't like holiday sale homemade junkies. What is a homemade junkie having fun making great ice cream at home and it's, it's on sale for 1350. That, I mean, chance me. Order that for me. Order that for me to the studio. I'd like to see what that's all about. Oh, my God. I'm sorry. I know we're running out of time. This is the rest of my life. Can we go up again? What else under wholesale ice cream? What flavors are they selling? Malcolm's ice cream simply now. Oh, he's been on TV. There he is. Malcolm on, you know, Arise 360 with the biggest shows on TV. Why is that not in my press schedule? You need to get on Arise 360. Salted caramel pecan, ricotta fig. Yeah, I mean, red velvet. These are all sounding. These are all good plant-based pomegranate. I've never had pomegranate ice cream. Asian ice cream flavor. All right. Let's see. Let's see if that's, if that's, okay, Ube Ube Ube Ube is having a big moment right now. Grantee.
drinker infused, of course. - Do you know what pandan is? - I don't know. - P-A-N-D-A-N. - I've heard it and I don't know what it is. - It's a flavor that's used in some Southeast Asian countries. It's a plant, it's a very bright specific green and they use it for desserts, pandan cake, pandan ice cream. It's sort of like almondy vanilla, but it's own thing. You got to get into it. - I might have to get into it. - You get pandan, if you see it, like you know, I bet Chinatown has it. Like bright green, you see like a bright green slice like chiffon cake or something or you got to try it. It's like my favorite, it's like my favorite flavor. - I will, yeah. - Come on, I have a segment for you. - Yes sir. - This is a game that we play, true or false segment. - Yes. - Okay, I'm going to read you 15 statements. You're going to tell me as quickly as you can if you think what I just said was true or false. If you get 10 or more correct, we're going to give you 50 US dollars. - Oh my god. - I know, I know. I'm like one 17th of the way to ice cream university. - Come on, are you ready? - Okay, the LA Lakers have won more NBA championships than any other team. - True. - False, the Celtics. Butterflies taste with their wings. - True. - False, their feet. The Grinch 2018 is the highest grossing Christmas movie of all time. - False. - True. - Oh my god. (laughing) - The Pacific Ocean is the largest ocean on earth. - Oh god, this one, true. - True. Grinnell College's motto is truth and service. - False. - False, it's truth and humanity. - I did go there. - I know you did. The liver is the second heaviest organ in the human body. - The liver. - Is skin an organ? - Yeah. - And heart is an organ. So I'll say false. - It's true. - Napoleon, you're telling me that the liver weighs more than all of my skin? - I can't, it's second heaviest. - Second heaviest. - Second number one. - Living number two. - Skin number two. - Well, what was heart? - We didn't get that far. - Not sure, sir. - Napoleon lost the battle of Waterloo. - Yes. - True. - Active volcanoes of all US states. - Yes. - False, Alaska. Jingle bells was originally a Thanksgiving song. - Oh, true. - True. The lion's den, open mic, in Chicago, was on Tuesday nights. - False. - Monday nights, baby. - Tea is the most popular beverage on the planet. - True. - False, it's water. Sorry. - Don't. That's not cool. - I didn't write it. - That is a bunch of bullshit. - I didn't write it. - Oh my god. What's the most popular food? Wrong, it's air. (laughing) - Quanza is observed for seven days. - You gotta take this out. - Not a good look. - Not a good look, bleep this. - False. - True. - Sloths take two weeks to digest food. - True. - True. St. Michael's Convent School was opened in 1970. - True. - 1986. - False. - Wow. - Both male and female reindeer grow antlers. - False. - True. - Wow, I did very poorly. - I did. - No. - Six. Six out of, why is that so funny? - No, that's beautiful. - Six out of how many? - 15. - Six out of 15. - Do it again, I bet I get them all right now. - Honestly, I'm tempted to if we weren't kind of out of time, but what I do wanna say to you is you were a winner in the way that you answered quickly because a lot of our guests cannot get that done. - I thought that was part of the thing. - It is. - But Camille, that's what I'm saying. A lot of our guests, they don't follow the rules. - St. Michael's Convent School is what I went to school. - Really? - Yeah. - I'm sorry that you got that one wrong. - Yeah, I mean, what, where did you go to school? - Just to chill out the high school. - What year was it founded? - 1931. - That's not true. - You're right. (laughing) - Just 'cause you answered quickly. - But you answered quickly, that's the game. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Camille, your special is out now. Do you wanna tell people where they can find it where they can find you? - It's on Hulu. It's called Night Thoughts. It's also on Disney Plus, on Hulu and on Disney Plus and the rest of the world. Go watch it. You can watch it with the whole family. It's Christmas Day. And you can watch it with the whole family. I swear a little bit, but it's very clean. - Yeah. - And it's really a good watch for the whole family. Don't go see Avatar. - Don't. - Avatar is doing fine. - Forget Avatar, we need you on the night special. - Yeah. - What is it, Night Thoughts? - Night Thoughts. (laughing) - I said it five times. - We need you on the night special. (laughing) You don't know what it's all, I've seen the trailer. - Yeah, my special is called Night Special. - Yeah, Night Special. - Night Thoughts. - Go see Camille, Night Special. I'm so happy for you, dude. Thanks for coming on. Well, thanks for having me. That was so fun.
Podcast Summary
Key Points:
The comedian reflects on his journey from stand-up roots in Chicago to a successful career in acting and comedy, emphasizing early struggles and growth in the industry.
He shares personal experiences with public scrutiny, including backlash over a role that made him appear buff, highlighting how appearance-related comments have caused deep emotional distress.
A major turning point was during the pandemic when online criticism about his appearance intensified, leading to mental strain and requiring therapy to process the trauma.
He discusses evolving cultural norms in comedy, noting that what was once acceptable—like anti-Jewish or rape jokes—is now viewed as harmful and inappropriate due to current societal awareness.
The comedian values authenticity and personal growth, crediting his relationship with Emily as a core source of emotional stability and purpose.
He advocates for integrity in endorsements, only supporting brands he genuinely believes in, and believes humor in advertising makes brands more memorable.
He expresses a strong moral stance against excessive wealth accumulation, calling it an undiagnosed mental illness, and reflects on the trauma of fame on child actors.
He finds joy in simple, intentional routines—like early bedtime and walking in the cold—as foundational to his personal well-being and balance.
Summary:
The comedian reflects on his career evolution from stand-up roots in Chicago to a multifaceted path in comedy and acting, recalling early struggles such as launching a stand-up show at a playground and facing early criticism. He shares how a recent role that made him appear buff sparked intense online backlash, particularly during the pandemic, when thousands of people mocked his appearance—deepening feelings of shame and triggering a painful emotional crisis. This experience, rooted in long-standing body image issues from childhood, led him to seek therapy and reframe his self-worth.
He emphasizes how comedy’s boundaries have shifted over time, with today’s audiences rejecting outdated jokes involving stereotypes or harmful themes. The comedian values authenticity, integrity, and personal connection, citing his relationship with Emily as a central source of stability and purpose. He is critical of rampant wealth obsession, calling it an undiagnosed mental illness, and laments the trauma inflicted on young public figures.
He also highlights how simple routines—like going to bed early and walking in the cold—have transformed his life, offering a grounded, intentional lifestyle. Through humor and vulnerability, he underscores the importance of emotional resilience, self-acceptance, and ethical responsibilities in entertainment, especially when navigating public scrutiny and evolving cultural norms.
FAQs
I returned to stand-up during the actors' writers' strike to explore if I could still enjoy and be good at it. I was deeply connected to my early stand-up roots and wanted to reconnect with that sense of performance and confidence.
Growing up in Chicago and performing at venues like the Hideout and playing late Friday shows helped build my confidence and resilience. These early experiences taught me to connect with audiences in raw, unscripted ways.
No, I have no involvement with either person. The rumors were completely false, and I’ve always been clear about that. I find it strange that such claims circulated, especially given that I’ve never met Michelle Obama.
I only endorse products I genuinely believe in, like Quest and Direct TV. I’ve been eating Quest products for years and respect their mission, which makes the partnership meaningful to me.
Emily has deeply shaped my routine and values. We have a strict bedtime rule that helps me maintain structure, which in turn improves my work and mental well-being. I also cherish the emotional intimacy and personal honesty she shares with me.
I believe comedy must evolve with the times. Jokes that were once acceptable—like anti-Jewish or rape jokes—now face scrutiny due to their harmful potential. I’m mindful of cultural shifts and avoid content that could be damaging or offensive.
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