199: Kris Vallotton: The Difference Between Living Like A Slave And Living Like A Son

No young man should stumble his way into manhood. The best gift we can give as a father is a clear pathway. Every boy needs a moment where he's called out of boyhood and into manhood. Where his strength is tested, his faith is forged, and his father's voice calls him forward. That's why we created the brave co-write of passage. It's a 30-hour weekend where fathers and sons and counter-god together we're going to break a wild horse, we're going to push limits and leave forever changed. Guys, this isn't a retreat. It's not a conference. It's a write of passage. Join us February 28th through March 1st, 2026 in Jacksonville, Florida. Visit braveco.org to learn more about this. Welcome back to the Brave Co podcast, men. This week, I've got the best man I know, my dad here, and if you haven't listened to some of the other episodes with my dad and I, you can go back. There's all kinds of on there, but dad, thanks so much for coming on. Make sure I have him on here. Yeah, dude. I got to make sure I have you every once in a while. I was on a cooking show like an hour ago, so it's just like. When your mom was like, "Did you enjoy that?" I'm like, "No." No, no, no, no, no. What are you doing out of cooking show? Oh, man, no, they wanted to do a cooking show. They needed somebody to eat. No, no. Yeah, I ate a bunch of junk food. Okay, my stomachs. The irony is, my dad doesn't know how to cook. No, I don't. No, no, no. Is your mom's cooking show? Yeah, but what were you doing on there? I was supposed to be tasting the food. The first thing they brought out had cheese and I'm like, "Sorry, I can't eat that." That was on the cooking show. He's lactose intolerant. A lactose intolerant, I'm like, not going to be able to. And then we had, you know, we were judging the two, there was a staff against the students. Oh, oh, no. And I was judging and I was like, "Sorry, I can't eat that." So I didn't get to judge that one of those. Did you not know who cooked what? No, I know who cooked it. I just like, you know, it was mom's dip. It was all supposed to be the recipe. Oh, yeah. I can't eat that dip because it's full milk. Oh, my God. Yeah, so anyway, it was fun. I mean, you know, they had fun and I was like, it didn't, it wasn't. And I said to your mom, it's kind of boring. She goes, "I really loved it." Okay, well, my mom used to say it takes all kinds to make the world fun. Mom had quite a day today. She did have quite a day today. She was leading worship today in a setting we won't tell where the setting was, but a guy rushed the stage, y'all in a bunch of obscenities. A bunch of guys tackled that stuff. No, it's one of those moments that you really wanted to be there. I know. It's like, I don't like anyone messing with my woman. I know, I wish I was there. I know, I was like, I'm so proud of the team that we're around them and just. We had to give them the Brave Coal 5, we'll do it. I'm a holy ghost. Yeah, baby. One thing you don't do is screw with my family. Don't love it. Yeah. No, mom's all good. Everybody's fine. Yeah, everyone's fine. She started praying. She did? Yeah, she started in Jesus' name. I just really pleaded about Jesus over here. She was fiery, man. She was like, she's getting them delivered right now. No, no. Mom will, she's famous for casting demons out. Yeah, I mean, you know, she, she, she, uh, she's card-carrying gun owner too. So it's lucky she didn't like it. Yeah, it's true. All right, that's an encouragement. But I mean, she is good with guns, right? Yeah, she's a great shot. Yeah, she killed, killed a bear this year and a bear this year. Yeah, yeah, she's a bad woman. Two years ago with a bow. Yeah, yeah. She's a bad woman. She is. Yeah, all right. Well, um, we have a conversation at topic today. We do. Yeah, it's something on your heart. And uh, about family and legacy empowerment. Let's do it. What's your thoughts? Well, I, I want to read a little scripture. Is it okay to write a prescription here? I'm not going to get pull up your digital Bible. Not going to get it 86 for that, right? So Jesus and John 15 says, I'm the true vine. And my father is the vine dresser. Every branch of me that doesn't bear fruit. He takes it away. Every branch that bears fruit, he prunes it. That it may more, more more fruit. You are now clean, same word prune because of the word which I spoken to you. Abiding me my words abiding you. As a branch cannot bear fruit of itself. I'm the vine here. The branches he abides in me and I am him. He bears much fruit. Apart from me can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me, he's thrown away as a branch and burned up. If you abide in me and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish. This is a great promise. Yeah, it is. Ask whatever you wish and will be done for you by my father who's in heaven. My father who's my father's glorified in this that you bear much fruit. And I love this part. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love. And I because I've kept my father's comments about his love, these things I've spoken to you. And then he goes on, this is my command that you love one another. Greater love is knowing this. He lays down his life for a friend. You are my friends. If you do it, I command you. No longer do I call you slaves. This is what I want to talk about. Where slaves does not know what his master is doing. But I've called you friends. For all things I've heard from my father, I've made no to you. I want to read this part one more time. You are my friends if you do what I can man you. Where slaves does not know what his master's doing. But I call you friends. And I want to just talk about, first of all, about, you know, how do we move from slavery? The highest core value of a slave is I'm do what I told. Yeah. So I have these testimonies, which are good testimonies, right? Holy Spirit told me to go to this house and give us my $50. Yeah. Great. You did what you were told. Yeah. But I'd like to propose the highest level of life is not obedience. It's friendship. So so but before you can become a friend, you have to be a slave, right? So he says, I no longer call you a slave. So he called the slaves at first and how do I move from slavery to friendship? Obedience. So you could tell where someone is in a relationship with God because it's all about Holy Spirit told me to go here and I did it. Holy Spirit told me what time you get up and I did it. And by the way, these are all really good. I'm being led by the Spirit. But God wants this to move from from obedience into he wants us to be a bride. He's looking for a relationship. And so I was thinking about how we move and went from slavery to friendship. And then it gives us what revelation? Revelation, I know I'll recall you say for a slave. It's not know what his master is doing. But all things I've heard from the Father, I've made known to you. So what is the privilege of friendship? I don't just do what I'm told. Like I actually have a I actually have a relationship with the master chess player. And I actually understand what what the Father is doing. So I'm not just being told what to do. I actually have a co-ranging relationship with God. And I was thinking about the story of Joseph, which Joseph is one of my favorite characters in the entire Bible. Yeah, me too. And he you probably know the story. He has his dream of being great. His brothers threw him in a pit. Then they saw him into slavery. And he's a slave. Yeah. And then he goes from slavery. And he's in and he goes from that to his, you know, his a part of his wife. Accuses him of, you know, raping her. And then he goes to prison. Yeah. And the Bible says that he was a successful man in slavery. He was a successful man in prison. And then he, the king has a dream about seven fat calves and seven skinny calves. And the fat calves eat the skinny calves. And so Joseph, who's a master dream interpreter, he gets called into the king's court. And this is his big debut, right? And the king's like, I had to stream. Ferrell's like, I had to stream. And he tells him, I have seven fat calves and seven skinny calves and the fat calves, eight skinny calves. And Joe goes, oh, I know what that means. That means that there's going to be seven years of plenty, like, you know, abundant, extra abundance. And there's going to be seven years of famine. And those seven years of famine are going to eat the seven years, the other calves, the seven years of abundance. In other words, it's going to be a huge famine in the land. And Joseph's like, you know, if I were a king, here's what I would do. I'd find you a really wise person. You know, good looking like me. Who would know what to do? Like, one of the things I would do if I were you is I would take the seven years of abundance and I would create a tax on the people and I would, I would, I would take 20% of all their crops and I would store them in big storage containers. And then I would sell them back to the famine. And so the king's like, oh, well, whoa, yeah, how about you? So Joe gets to be number two in command. And so it's actually, so that's usually where the story stops, right? He has a beautiful story. Joe saves the day. He's honored as the second in charge. And Ferrell actually says, Joseph actually says to his brothers, later on, in the story, I'd become a father to Ferrell. It's a beautiful story. The only problem is it doesn't end there. So Joseph sells grain. So in the year one of the famine, Joseph starts selling grain back to the Egyptians. And obviously just some other countries, but mostly to the Egyptians. And you're two and you're three and you're four. Well, by the time you get to year four, all the Egyptians are out of grain. They're broke. They're broke. And so they start giving, selling their land. They give their land to Ferrell for grain. So they don't starve to death. Well, by year five, they've used all their money and they've sold all their land to Ferrell. And they come to Joseph and they say, we won't hide where we're at our situation. We have no more money. We have no more land and they say this to him. Make us slaves, us and our children. And we will serve Ferrell. Only do not let us starve. And the 45th chapter, I think it's the 43rd chapter. I see it says, and Joseph enslaved all of Israel, all of Egypt. Wow. He enslaved all of Egypt. And then in, so we get, we finished Genesis. The next book is Exodus. Yep. It says, and Exodus says there, there be, there was, there were the rows of Ferrell who knew not Joseph and what they do. He enslaved the Israelites. So Joseph enslaved all the Egyptians. The next generation, the Egyptians enslaved the Israelites. Wow. And what, and think about how this relates to John 15. And John 15, I become, I'm a slave. And how do I get out of slavery? I obey. And when happens when I obey, I become, I become a friend. And what is the, what is the benefits of friendship? All things I heard from the father made known to you, right? So Joseph has, has a revelation. What's the revelation? There's going to be seven great years of seven famineers, right? The seven famineers are going to eat the seven great years. And everyone's going to starve. And Joseph is, so Joseph has this revelation. But who does he share it with? Only with Ferrell. He doesn't share it with the Egyptians. Yeah. He only shares it with Ferrell. Ferrell is the only one who has revelation. Joseph and Ferrell, everybody else, everybody else doesn't know what's happening. All they know is that the Ferrell is extracting a 20% tax on them, paid in grain, right? So Joseph takes a first world country, Egypt, one of the wealthiest countries in the world. And in 14 years, he turns it from a wealthy first world country into a third world country in which there's Ferrell and everyone else is a slave. Joseph turns Egypt into a slave country in 14 years. How does he do it? He withholds revelation. He doesn't tell, he doesn't tell anyone but Ferrell about the interpretation of the dream. All he had to do, Jay, is to say to the Egyptians, all the Egyptians, hey, Ferrell had this dream and let me tell you what the dream's about. And instead of extracting the 20%, he could have said to every Egyptian house, you are the Ferrell demands that you save 20% of your grain. Right. So that when the famine begins, you will, and guess what? They would have been the wealthiest country in the world. Every, there would have been a one-class system. Everyone's wealthy. Why? Because the famine was broader than Egypt and even Israel came in to get food. Every Egyptian would have enslaved everyone else and the Egyptians would have been. Well, no, they wouldn't necessarily enslaved them, right? My point is, is that the Egyptian, every Egyptian citizen would have had extra grain. Right. And they could have sold it back or made money or however they were. They would have sold it back, right? They could have eaten what they needed and they could have sold the rest. Because the first seven years were not normal seven years. The seven years of grain were enough for 14 years. Right? Yes. But instead of what normally would happen is you've got extra money, what do you do? You spend it all, right? Well, if Joseph would have told them the plant, instead of feral being the only person who's rich, every Egyptian, it would be everybody who was Egyptian would have been wealthy. But what happened instead? He withheld the information from the Egyptian population, told it only to feral. And everyone in Egypt became feral slave. Everybody in Egypt became feral slave because feral was the only one who had grain. So they had to sell themselves in the slavery to get grain. And consequently, he enslaves all of Egypt. But what happens in the process of reciprocity? They created this ecosystem. So Joseph knowingly enslaves Egypt. And what happens? There was a feral who knew not Joseph and he enslaves all the Egyptians for 400 years. Yeah. And it comes back to create this ecosystem. Like what we do today. Like when we create symptomatic cures, today's cure becomes tomorrow's slavery. Yeah. So when we look at this, we're like, Joseph's solution, because I like Joseph too. Yeah, he's one of my favorite characters. But Joseph's solution ultimately created tons of bondage for Israel. Yeah, Joseph had a short term solution. He didn't have a legacy solution. He wasn't thinking about how it's going to affect the generations to come. He didn't think about how it's going to actually affect the economy of Egypt. And what he did, he became a great servant of feral. He made feral filthy rich. Yeah. But this is how you end up with the two-class system. Think about countries like some of the African countries that are so poor. You have this upper class. You got your feral. Super well. And everybody else is asleep. And I'd point out that slavery happens not because you don't have resources, but because you don't have revelation. Yeah. So you took the continent of Africa. It has the greatest resources in the entire globe. They are in the continent of Africa. They have the greatest goal. They have the greatest wealth in oil. They have diamonds. You know, Congo's rich with diamonds. And they have the worst GDP gross national product in any continent in the planet. What's the problem? Well, then people giving them money, giving them money. I'm like, the problem isn't that they don't have money. The problem is that they don't have revelation. Revelation will take you from slavery to friendship. And friendship gives you all things I've heard from the Father made known to you. Yeah. So when we change our relationship with God, like let's think about how it affects our homes. If I can move from obedience to friendship, I can actually turn my house into a house of prosperity. I can actually turn my house into a house of wealth. I could turn my house from a slave camp. I could turn my house into a royal palace. And it isn't because I got a better job. It's because I actually got revelation. A Deuteronomy 818 says, God says to Moses, tell people, I'm going to give them the power to make wealth that I might confirm my covenant with them. The word wealth there is translated well 42 times. But it's translated army 82 times. The word wealth is translated army 82 times in the Old Testament. In other words, the Hebrew word for wealth, the word they translated for wealth is actually translated army 82 more times. God's saying to you, like, wealth is a, it isn't money. It's a power. Like I'm going to give you an army that attracts wealth to you. And poverty is also a power. Yeah. So I'm pointing out that, you know, men, I'm pointing out that in your house, your relationship with God will determine whether or not your house is a palace or a fricking prison. And when I, and the way I move from slave to friend is, first of all, I like God prune me. Right. First John, John 15, I mean, I'm the God's vine. I'm the branches. Every branch of me doesn't bear fruit. He prunes. So in the word prune, it means to, it means to remove or to cut off or to cut back. And, and then Jesus said, you're already, you're already clean because of the word I spoke to you. That word clean is the same word prune. So he's saying, when I speak to you, I prune you. In other words, we might call it discipline. In other words, how, how am I naturally prune? If I want to be pruned to be bear more fruit or I want to be pruned because things I'm doing, like there's branches of me that are just dead. God goes, okay, I'm going to prune you. And then Jesus said, the next verse, you are already clean because of the word I spoke to you. The word clean, you are already clean, is the word prune. I prune you by speaking to you. And, and how does God prune me? He, he, he said, like, for example, in Hebrews chapter five, he says, you should already be teachers. But you have need for some of the teach you because you are not accustomed to the word of righteousness. You still drink milk. What is the word of righteousness? The word of righteousness is when God comes in and goes, there's no more cussing. Hey, don't treat your wife like that. Yallnet, your kids isn't going to work. And what's happening is when I submit myself to his command and he's able to actually, his word is able to actually affect me. So it changes my attitude and my action, which we call repentance. Yeah. He, that's pruning. He said, you're already clean by the word. So he prunes me. And, and then he says, if you keep my commandments, if you let me prune you, I will pull you close. And I will move you out of slavery into friendship. And then you will have a relationship with me where friends influence friends. You can come up to the, you know, you can come up to the third level of the chess board, so to speak. And you can sit with a master chess player and know what the master's doing. I like, I mean, no, I'm thinking the, to me, the interesting thing about this conversation is two parts for me, one that we can become a friend of God and access revelation that we didn't want to have, which is obviously a beautiful target for every man. Yeah. Getting revelation from God without a longevity mindset. A revelation with God gives you a longevity mindset because God thinks from eternity. It can. Joseph gets revelation from God. Yeah. He doesn't have a longevity mindset. Oh, yeah, good point. And he enslaves the whole entire generation. So I think that you can, your gift will make a way for you. But if, if you're not continuing to partner with God with that vision, I'll do it like this like really practically, I know a lot of men who are raising young men. Yep. And their goal is to raise a godly man they want to. But they have some revelation on that, on how to raise a godly man, teaching scriptures, do things like that. But if you, if you aren't partnered with God's vision for your son, your, his specific, you know, legacy, yeah, for his legacy, then I give him some things. But I'm not necessarily setting him up for the future, right? Yeah. I'm, I'm pouring into him on a daily basis. But if I have a vision for where he's going and what God's going to do in his life and it's that protect, provide promote peace, helping to give him what he needs to get to this journey. Then I'm just giving him good revelation, but revelation with just in and of itself, doesn't always benefit the way that we wanted to. Yeah, think about this. Part of the challenge might be that Joseph was raised in a prison. And he was raised in a slave count. He was a slave and he's a prisoner. So maybe to your point is that although he had revelation as a prince, he had the attributes of a slave. And therefore his, his revelation was short, short-sighted. He created symptomatic cured. Yeah. And I think what would have been different had he'd been raised in a palace so that his emphasis, you know, like, like, well, this is something it's, it's not, it's not original with me. But I read that something powerful, he said, he said, poor people think from paycheck to paycheck. Middle class people think about their 401(k) like their retirement. But wealthy people think about the leaving of legacy, the generations to come. And I think a great way to put it is that although he had a friendship with God, as you pointed out, you know, he still had a slave mentality in that he was thinking paycheck to paycheck. He was thinking maybe he's thinking like their retirement, but he definitely was not thinking, how is this going to affect the generations to come if we enslave all of Egypt? Which is part of my point is you can raise a good son and give him things. But the whole point is to partner with God to build the man that God's building. How do I build the man? How do I, how do I release? How do I take, how do I build a culture in which takes the man from here to here with vision from God? So if I don't have a legacy piece in mind, then ultimately I'm going to get back to what serves me the best or what serves. You know, Joseph set up something that served the king and him the best. Yeah, it saved Egypt. And the Egyptians were actually, here's how bad it was, the Egyptians thanked him for enslaving them. Because they didn't see that there was actually another, they actually honored his father, Israel. It says that Israel, when Israel, Israel, who was Joseph's father, when Israel died, it says the Israelites mourned for 40 days. The Egyptians mourned for 70 days. Yeah. And the point is is that because the Egyptians became how slave mindset, they were just happy someone kept them alive. Yeah. They didn't realize like, Joe, why didn't you tell us what you told Veril. Yeah. Oh, it's real. I also am confused about real this piece too that maybe you can shed some light on this piece of a slave. Oh, base. He does what the master tells them to. Yeah. And he doesn't know why. He doesn't know why, of course. He doesn't know why. So think about the Egyptians did what Joseph told them to do, right? They put it, they had to be, they had to give grain, right? It's like the IRS would come in and go, Hey, where's your grain? Give us your grain, right? But they had no idea why they were doing it. Yeah. They didn't know if anyone was coming. Obedience walks a person to a place where they are a friend of God. The slave is also obeying. Yes. But they don't, they aren't necessarily a friend of God. They're obeying. Well, in the case of Egypt, they're obeying from the outside end. They're not obeying from the inside out, right? So the devil says, if you let me prune you, so I'm going to prune you. It's not necessarily obedient. It's not just obedience that moves us into friendship with God. It's, we would say that covenant gives you permission to wound me, to change my mind, to give me feet. I'm trying to make the link. I understand that the challenge is the government can make me behave laws. But when I behave from the heart, when I let him prune me, not he wrestles me to the ground and he prunes me. It's like when I say father, here I am, what do you want me to do? How can I, how can I please you? And I have a willing heart. And I actually demonstrate it by the fact that he tells me to not cuss anymore when I stop cussing. He tells me to treat my wife well. And I, from my heart of my, oh, I want to please you, I will do that. But I still don't know why when I'm a slave. I just know I'm supposed to do it. But I do it with a willing heart. Otherwise, it's like, what a prison's for. Prison's are for people who can't control themselves. So the government goes, well, you can't control yourself. So we will control you from the outside in. You will be controlled. Like, you will stop killing people. You will stop stealing. I think one of the distinctions to, does that make sense? Yeah, I think one of the distinctions that will help. Because I really want guys to be able to walk away from them and go, this is how I become a, this is how I move out of slave and into lover. Yes. The slave is trying to do for the, okay, you just said it right there. First of all, let's stop. Yeah. This, when the slave is trying to please the master, he is on the road to friendship when he's trying to please the master. I think a, I think a, a friend or a son is becoming like. I'm not just doing four. I'm not just doing errands for you. I'm not just running around and doing those things. My ultimate goal is to become like. Yeah. So the invitation is prune me in areas that don't look like you. There's a great illustration right there. Come in and change. I'm conforming to and being transformed into this model. The, the slave isn't doing that. The slave is going, I don't want to die. I don't want to die. I, don't want to be punished. I want to eat. I want to live. I'm going to do so that I will get. It's an exchange. I will do this so you'll give me this. Yes. A son isn't doing so that he will get. Yeah. And a slave is often operating out of fear. Of course. I don't want to die. I don't want to, you know, I don't, I don't want to be punished. I don't want to go jail. It's interesting because it's the kindness of God that leads us to repentance. Right. And it's, it's, it's, it's being able to go and God's kind of see came and rest. It's why I think it's so important how you come into the kingdom. The gospel that you grab a hold of that's presented to you. Right. Because I think a lot of people are slaves simply because the invitation that was presented to them was a slavery invitation. It was very much. Perpetually a center. You're going to hell. You know, you're, you're saved by grace, but you, you, you have to work for it. And so they just, they end up being like, I'm so glad I'm in. I'm so glad I'm saved, but there's no way to, to step into sonship. Yeah. The sun has inheritance in mind. He has legacy in mind. He knows that what the Father's ultimately doing is he's setting up the sun for ultimate success. Yes. So when a son is being pruned, he's being pruned with the mindset of, if I know that you're setting up an empire for me and you're pruning me, I'm, I am listening and taking and making adjustments with vision. Yeah. I had, um, I had four dads. I had four dads and five sons on a ride a passage week. Yeah. You did last week. It was awesome. And I talked to the young men, a rock. Mm-hmm. We talked, walked them through our seven pillars of initiation. It was awesome. And one of the things, uh, the first pillar is the beloved. You are a beloved son. You didn't earn it. You don't have to perform. Your dad set up this ride a passage. It's hot for you. Not because you deserve it, but because they love you, you're their son. They want to pour something into you. Right. And, but then I taught them the, the, the, the next phase of this is the explorer, right? We're pouring into the next level of manhood is the explorer. Man, you have an explorer inside of you that God's put, but then we started teaching these young men, these principles, right? Men, we have been serving you all morning. When you come back from the hunt, the question for you to ask is, how can I serve you? What's happening, young men? We are thinking about how do we get you from boyhood to manhood, to king, to sage, right? From boyhood to, from the beloved to the explorer, to the warrior, to the builder, to the king, to the sage. As a father, I'm, when I set up the whole weekend, I told these young men, what we have in mind for you is a plan to set you up for success. 50 years from now, we are thinking about today, we are thinking about how to get you to this spot. Yeah. I'm going to let you drive my vehicle. I had a, I had one of those young guys in my vehicle, right? It's dark out. And I'll leave out his name. We'll just call him Joe. And Joe is 11, he's 12 years old. So I get all the seat pushed up and raised up and he's scrunched up in there and you're off road. You're off road. Yeah, we're on a ranch. Yeah. He puts this Jeep and my Jeep, I'd already hit a deer. So it didn't matter. So he puts it in drive and I explaining to Joe like, hey, this is the brake pedal, this is the gas, this is how you drive the car. And it goes, I know, I know. I said, Joe, have you ever driven a car before? He said, no. I said, then you don't know. You don't actually know what you're doing. Yeah. I said, you don't know what you're doing. I need you to be, I need to be able to give you input because I have a vision for you, son. I actually told him this. I have a vision for you. The vision for you is that you would be as good or better than me at driving. If I can't tell you something without you going, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Don't tell me anything. Then I don't want you to drive my vehicle. You started to get the vision, right? You started to go like, oh, Joe, do you want to drive the vehicle? Yes, I do. Then be teachable, be moldable because what I'm trying to do as a father is to give you everything that I have. I first have to prune away the things, the self protections, the ego of a 12 year old, the short-sightedness in order to give you something that that helps you doesn't hurt you in order to walk you into manhood. And I think part of this whole thing comes back to when you're a son, when you grow up in a good home, I had this idea growing up. I remember thinking this that if we lived 400 years ago, my family would be kings. I grew up with this mentality that I was special. Yeah. When dad comes in with discipline and discipline, had vision. There's a purpose behind it. I not only want to submit to that, even though it doesn't feel good, but I ultimately know that you're doing it because you love me. I have a future. You know that quote, Michael Angelo said, I saw the angel in the storm and I carved her set it free. Yeah. Someone I was quoting that day and someone said, did you know the rest of that quote? He said, I said no. He said, he said, I chipped off everything that didn't look like an angel. Yes. This is discipline. It is discipline. God's chipping off everything that doesn't look like an angel. That's right. And when we talk, so I want to just bring it back into when we're talking about pruning, most of the time we go into pruning, right? We're like, oh no, God's going to prove me. The man who's pruning is always pruning towards fruit. He's always pruning to maximize the tree. Yeah. He's not pruning to deplete the tree. And I think that we have this idea that God's pruning is going to feel like devastation instead of excitement, anticipation, and vision. Sometimes it does feel hard though. I don't think that it. I don't think that it can't. I think that it can feel hard. I think it depends on how we see it. Yeah. I mean, you know, here's the little revelation on the on the vine, right? Those are the way vine grows. Vines grow this way. If you let a vine grow without pruning at all, and you were able to look at it, let's say that let's say a branch got 15 feet long. Well, first you'd have the first five feet ish would be fruit. The second five or seven feet would be leaves. And from there on, it just be a stick. Yeah. Just wood. So if you let a branch grow without any vine dresser, it will become a stick, like a complete stick. The vine will use all this energy to extend the stick and not grow any fruit. Yeah. So it's a beautiful actually picture for that that first century people. They actually know what he's talking about. Yeah. I'm making you fruitful. Everything that's not for here's the challenge. If you end up in a culture that values the length of the stick, you're not in a culture that actually values fruit. Like we're in a stick race. Yeah. And in other words, when we get overextended, we stop bearing fruit, right? Yeah. When we get overextended, we start bearing fruit. Just like my sticks 15 feet. Well, mine's 17 feet. Yeah, but you have no fruit. Yeah. And so to your point is like, he's pretty enough everything that's stealing energy from the brunt from the vine. Yeah. Because it's actually, it's when you get overextended, all you're doing is making sticks. You know, I think there's something to inside of the conversation about sunship. Yeah. Which you've written a lot about your humbours to Prince Book is about that. Yeah. The conversation about sunship is all the way back to do you ultimately believe that you're a beloved son. Yeah. That God loves you unconditionally. That you didn't do anything to earn this. That he has a vision. He has a future for you. That foundation sets you up to be in this conversation about you live in an ecosystem where there is pruning where there's fruit. You live in an ecosystem where there's feedback. I talked last week at church or two weeks ago at church about there's four phases that every man goes through in his in preparation. Yes. Yes. And the first one is calling, right? Every man's called. And the calling is free, right? And then you go into the testing. God test what he calls. And that testing is the same thing as the pruning. What has to happen is we go through these trials in these tests like Joseph. It's supposed to bring up everything that doesn't serve the ultimate purpose. Yeah. What does it look like an angel? The next phase, right? So God exposes what's there because he loves us. And then he equips us. So the equipping is the feedback. It's hey, you did this out of this motive. That doesn't work for me. Do this and watch how it works. Right. So we get lots and lots and lots of feedback. And then eventually we work our way to this commission. Yes. And so every time you're going through a new season, man, it's back to the God wants to you're walking into the sonship. The steps into sonship is called tested, equipped, commissioned. That's the ecosystem for sonship. That is, that is the process of maturity and demand hood. And without, I think, without us knowing that that's the process, we see God through the lens of I have all these trials. I have all this pain. I have, I'm getting all this feedback in my life. I don't know why. And God's going, yeah, I'm building a man who's a son. If we don't understand his process, what he's trying to do in us, then we end up going, I don't want that. I just want to be out of this pain. I just want to be through this season. And you end up in this process, you honestly end up in a slave, in the side of the slavery process, right? But you're a son, but you're like the prodigal son. You are like the prodigal son. You're eating with the pigs because you left the father's farm. Well, you take, so I think anytime you think your calling qualifies you to be commissioned right now, you end up as a prodigal son. Instead of the process. Yes. It's called entitlement. Yes, it's entitlement. Yeah. I know I've been called. And therefore, I'm going to find a way to make it happen. And we skip the, the testing process. Yep. Then you end up as the prodigal son. I think this conversation is really important. And I think there's more to it. You know, I really do. I'm so intrigued because we haven't talked about this before. I'm so intrigued with, it's a bit disheartening to go, man, Joseph enslaved a whole generation. And in one way, he was such a good man. He was such a good man. Yeah. Like did he know he was enslaving them? I don't know because he grew up in a slave camp in prison. And unfortunately, his revelation was amazing. His application was terrible. So to me, there's so much more in that verse to mine out about like God gave him some really incredible revelation. He had some amazing insights, but his insights ultimately led to bondage. I mean, his enslaving his people to your point, they weren't rooted in sonship. I mean, Joseph was an amazing, revelatory slave. But he, it wasn't rooted in sonship because he didn't think about longevity or maybe there was areas of his life. You know, this may be a longer conversation because he said, I'd become a father to Ferrell. So in some ways, yeah, in some ways, he was a really, he fulfilled his, his commission. In other ways, he, he, he wasn't thinking legacy. Yeah. It's so interesting. And as a man, I just think like, there's probably a lot of things that God's giving me and pointing me towards. I can, I can give you one where it would look like. There's so much favor happening in Brave Co right now. Yeah, there is. Where God's opening up doors. I literally think he's opening up doors. If I don't have legacy in mind, then I chase every door from the favor that God's given me. Yeah. And forget that I have a family over here that still needs me. Still needs my energy, my effort. And so this becomes, this actually becomes a massive bird. What God was meant for a blessing becomes a burden because I don't stay attached to prune what you want to prune. Show me what you want to show. Exactly. Continue to give me. It's the man makes a plan, but God directs his steps. And so I think that's a, that's a big piece to. And to your point on identity, you know the story of the talents and the might is. Yeah. And the, and then you got, this guy got five. He got five more and got two and you got two more. And then the guy who got one buried it. Yeah. He buried it. But what does, what's his commentary? He said, I knew you were harsh man. You know, you were reaping where you didn't sow. And you gather where you scatter no seed. Therefore, I was afraid and I hit it. And I'm like, okay, what was the difference between the guy, the other two guys, their identity, their God, their God conscience system was different. Yes. Because they were willing to take a risk. I'm saying they walked out the fact that if I fail, God's not going to punish me. This guy, the guy that has one, he's like his God, his, his God perspective was wrong. And therefore, the way he left his life, he led his life was a slave. I know you're a tough taskmaster. Well, the other two guys must have not thought that because they, they behave quite differently. And I'm pointing out that when you're a slave, you're, you're, you're just, you're hunkered down. You're like, you know, I got to make sure I returned him when he gave to me. I'm not taking a risk because why do I not take a risk? Because I said, you're a hard taskmaster. He had a bunch of judgment. When I look at that, I go, oh, he's got a lot of judgment to, to his leader. He has, he's, he's looking at him going, you're not going to be kind to me. You're not caring. You're a man that's taking advantage of other people. And I'm just, I'm going to be one of those people that you take advantage of to you. I'm just going to give you back what you gave to me. He's not a son. No. And the thing is the, the, the divine responses, you wicked, lazy slave. And then God repeats back to him what he says about him. You knew I read to where I did so. You knew I gathered where I kept, or no seat. God's like, if that's your identity of God, why did you not behave? Yeah. Like you, it's even, you, you said I do this, but then you behaved as if I have, I don't want any return. And so he has, so he's like, you judged yourself. You, your judgment of me, you didn't, you didn't live up to your, to your self identity and God. You, you don't say it because your self identity is if I don't, if I don't give him back more than he gave me, then he's going to be angry with me. Yeah. And then you didn't give him back more than he did. You didn't even try. And God's like you, you said this about me and then you behave that way. And I'm pointing out it's always like that, Jay, when you're a slave, you're just thinking about, how do I survive? And it's you're, you're, you're, you're even irrational in your, in your definition because you're like, I see God this way, but I behave the opposite way. And I think these are all things that I think we're working, we're working through his men. It's like, how do I behave like a son? How do I actually move from, from a slave mentality to sonship? Yes, I have to learn how to obey, but I have to obey from the heart. Yeah. I can't, I can't obey from the rules. I have to obey from the heart. I have to let you prune me. I think the so many men were wired inside of a home where they didn't have a dad that really loved them. It really cared for them. Yeah. And you know, like you, making that jump into sonship out of slavery and to sonship is very challenging. And because you're in your most vulnerable stages, you were rejected to left weren't taking care of. Yeah. And so now you're older trying to rewire this, you know, all these years of living a certain way. And I think that it's really important that you ask yourself like, man, if you notice, like, I feel like I'm living this slavery life, that you go back to this first pillar of, where did I learn that I'm the beloved from John Elders house's book called Fathered by God that I think is a really incredible resource for this because it's almost impossible to be a son of God. If you didn't ever feel loved by God. And if you'd never experienced love from your father, that jump is so hard. And so I do want to help guys, if you're like, man, I'm, I'm really struggling in this area. That book Fathered by God, your book, the supernatural ways of royalty is a great book. Jack Frost book. Fathered book was the Father's embrace. Yeah. All great resources for this. And dad, thank you for coming in. Yeah. For shedding some light. We'll throw some grenades and people's bless you guys. And hey guys, just hang in there and do this little exercise. Just been five minutes a day, usually in the morning, I love, I love getting up in the morning maybe even before you got up bed and just ask the Lord, what, what are three things you're thinking about me? Yeah. And that's a great way to start like in that, you know, loving sunshine. Yeah, to build that relationship, that conversation. Love you guys. Have an incredible week. We will see you next week. Bless you, man. Hey, brave come in. Hopefully you love this week's episode. Listen, if you have not subscribed to our podcast, you are already behind. Go ahead and click right here to subscribe to our podcast. And if you have not watched last week's episode, you can click right here and watch last week's episode. 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