Speaker 1Hello and welcome to another SPAC Insider podcast, where we bring an independent eye in interviewing the targets of SPAC transactions and their SPAC partners. This week we return to the subject of driverless trucking, with a SPAC target that has already logged months of its trucks operating autonomously in an industrial setting, with rollouts on public highways and defense applications inbound. That company is Kodiak, which announced a $2.6 billion accommodation with Aries Acquisition Corporation II in April. Kodiak CEO Don Burnett joins us to explain how the company has sought to blaze a trail to commercialization for the company, while burning a fraction of the R&D cash that some of its peers have used to get to this same point. Don explains how the company has looked to apply that same capital efficiency to the structure of its SPAC combination, and what opportunities he sees on the other side of the company's drive into the public markets. Take a listen. So Don, it is exciting times in the EU. I'm here in New York, which feels like it has been left out of a lot of the deployments for a while, but even New York is getting some driverless taxi pilots soon. So just what has been the mood and the reception been like as you've been engaging with the market about this deal?
Speaker 2I think the excitement around self-driving and autonomous technology has never been higher, right? There's many companies out there that are working on this tech, and really for the first time it feels like it's in the hands of a customer. There's actually driverless vehicles on the road out there performing useful tasks like moving people around. There are a lot of people around cities and moving freight and moving goods. For those of us who have been in the space for a long time, that's something that we've not always been able to say. And I think if you look at 2025 and the way this year has evolved, autonomy has become really a part of the national discourse, right? People are talking about it. People are excited about it. If you live in one of the cities where Waymo operates in on a regular basis, you probably know somebody or you might be one of those people who takes a Waymo on a regular basis. And that's... That's incredibly exciting. I've been working in this space for over 16 years, and it's always been a coming soon story. But now driverless is finally here. Companies like Kodiak have actually put a driverless product into the hands of customers. And I think the response has been overwhelmingly excited about it. Everyone knows that autonomy is the future of transportation, but they just didn't know when it was coming. And it's finally here today.
Speaker 1Yeah, and honestly, you know, pointing out that sort of the long timeline we've been on for this technology. What I wanted to get into next in terms of just, you know, we've seen companies go public at different stages of their development in this space, and some have decided to stay private for longer chunks of time as well. What was sort of the trigger moment for you of feeling like now is the time really for Kodiak to take that step?
Speaker 2Well, for us, I really wanted to wait until I felt like we had a product that was in the hands of customers to show investors what the path to scale actually looks like. So many autonomy companies and companies in general have gone public in recent years without the proof points that I think are important to justify the hype and excitement that comes along with our industry. And so for us, I felt like deploying a driverless solution really was one of the gating items for us to even consider going into the public markets. And as you know, we delivered our first driverless trucks to, to our launch customer Atlas Energy Solutions in December of 2024. So it's been, it's been a while now, actually, those trucks have been out delivering freight, delivering goods for, for Atlas, rain or shine. And it's been amazing to see, see that progress. But for, for us, I think that's a point of maturity in the development life cycle of an autonomy company. That is a really important proof point that you need to hit in order for investors and others to know that your technology really works. And more importantly, that customers actually want that product.
Speaker 1Yeah. And, you know, we, we mentioned taxis at the very top, but, you know, Kodiak is in the trucking space primarily for now. And, and in some ways it feels like freight trucking is a little bit earlier just because, you know, at least it feels not as visible as the Waymo's driving around the West Coast. As you just mentioned there, Kodiak has trucks on the road now for, for months and months. Can you just walk us through how your technology has been deployed so far and how much use you have racked up?
Speaker 2Yeah. So as of the end of Q2 of 2021. 25, we've delivered and are operating five driverless vehicles for Atlas. I should actually point out that Atlas actually owns those vehicles. So when I say we're operating, actually they're operating, maybe that's a point of clarification. And that's actually really unique within the autonomy space. Most, if not all other driverless deployments. And I do mean driverless deployments here, not just testing. So just to kind of clear that up, when I say driverless, I mean, nobody in the cab, nobody in the driverless. Nobody in the driver's seat, no observer, nobody sitting with their finger on a button. These trucks are truly empty trucks that are out there performing the goal for the customer day in and day out. In our case, they run up to 24 seven. They're available for 24 seven. And Atlas is ultimately in control of where those trucks go, where they pick up the material, where they drop off the goods, which trailers they take and who of Atlas's customers do they serve. And so it's been fascinating to watch. That deployment, it's still early days, right? We delivered the first two trucks in December of 2024, we used Q1 as an evaluation period for both us and for the customer to determine whether or not the trucks actually worked as described as promised. I'm happy to report that they exceeded the milestones and performance metrics that we had set out for ourselves in Q1. And then we started to deliver more trucks in Q2, and we will continue to ramp that production up going forward. I would say at this point, it's been a very successful deployment and we're excited to scale that into the future.
Speaker 1Yeah. And I found that to be a really interesting place where Kodiak started because it feels like so much of the conversation around autonomy is focused on public roads and passenger transit and things like that. But working in terms of oil field services and working for a client like Atlas, I mean, I imagine it generates sort of particular challenges, but particular benefits as well. I'm just curious. What have you sort of learned and what do you think has been particularly advantageous about starting there?
Speaker 2Well, maybe I'll take an even bigger step back. And if you'll allow me to tell a little bit about my story and why I ultimately got into driverless technology in the first place. Most folks in the very early days of this industry were in it for the safety aspects. And in particular, for me, I had some events that occurred in my life when I was younger, when I was an undergraduate student. At the University of Florida, I got into an accident on the highway and it was, it was a close call. I ended up walking away, nobody was hurt, but it was a high speed incident and I really felt like it could have gone the other way and I didn't have a lot of control in that instance. And it really struck me in that moment, like there should be a better way to do this. And then shortly after that, I had a friend, his name was Josh, high school friend who was also driving on a highway in Florida. He got into an accident. He actually passed away. So it was at this moment where I thought, okay, I'm an engineer. I have the ability to go and make change here and affect safety of our roadways. So that's originally how I got into this. And so in the early days of the Google program now called Waymo, we were researchers sitting around the table, not really talking about use cases. We weren't so much concerned with the business model or how are we going to make money? It was really about pushing the technology forward and seeing what was possible. But then the years go by and you start to think, okay. If this is going to really have an impact, if we're really going to affect change, if we're going to affect safety, we need to build a real business. And then you start thinking about markets and you start thinking about use cases. And as you know, many focused on the Robotaxi use case, which in the early days in particular was not as obvious of a choice in terms of the size of the market, in terms of how that market is addressable. And particularly for me, and what was most impactful for me was the need for the technology. You know, I always saw Robotaxis as a nice to have, obviously there are lots of folks who benefit from efficient transportation and that's great, but there are other services that generally provide that capability. Whereas in the commercial market, trucking specifically, there has always been a very clear need. And there has been for decades around the need for automation, self-driving technology. There's a massive shortage of drivers. That's been widely discussed in a lot of different forums. That problem is only getting worse over time. As a result, when you look at the size of the market and the opportunity it represents, it was always obvious to me that this was going to be the first big deployment of autonomous technology at scale, addressing a real market need while also going after a massive market. As the years have gone by, we spent many, many years developing the technology. You also realize that things take longer. Sometimes than you expect, not just with the development of the software, but also the hardware and the platforms. And you know, we'll get to this probably in a little bit about the ecosystem that's built up around the autonomous industry in terms of truck redundancy, braking systems, and you know, security, those types of topics. So we started to look at what are the paths to deploying a driverless solution to a customer who needs this technology. in a way that was available now. And there are a lot of steps that went into building the system that we've deployed in terms of developing the hardware, validating the system, functional safety, producing the software, finalizing the safety case. But when we found out about the opportunity in the oil and gas fields to work with Atlas, we realized that this is a product that we could deliver today in the short term and start to really scale, driving revenues for the company, and really proving out that this technology is useful and safe. And effectively, we can do it in a location where, you know, it's more remote, which we thought was just a nice bonus. So that's kind of the progression of logic and how I and others have thought about where the technology needed to go in order to get on the roads and deploy driverlessly today. And this is, I would say, is just the beginning. We're just getting started.
Speaker 1And so we've touched on the work you've done in terms of the oil field, but you also are getting closer and closer to full deployment on highways and on public roads. Where are you in that process?
Speaker 2Yeah, that's a great question. So maybe first, I would say, which to cover off a little bit of confusion, you know, the industrial application in oil fields and beyond is actually a massive opportunity. You know, we estimate that it's somewhere around a $68 billion global market. And it's something that we're really pushing hard to pursue. However, we recognize that there's this much larger opportunity within long haul highway based solutions. And so the team is working extremely hard to prove out our safety case for deploying our technology on US highways. We work on a daily basis with some of the best trucking companies in the business, folks like Warner Enterprises and JB Hunt as some examples. And we're delivering freight with our technology over the road on a day in and day out basis. So this is an ongoing operation. We're already generating revenue with our technology over the road, and we have been for years. And so we're marching toward a driverless deployment in that area towards the
Speaker 1later half of 2026. Yeah, and I do want to dive into some of the nuts and bolts of your commercial model. But I was also interested to see that you've been exploring applications in kind of the defense space as well. And this has been a very interesting time for autonomy in defense, you know, as we're seeing the war in Ukraine ongoing. I'm just curious if the conversation has picked up due to that at all, in terms of like what the demand you're seeing there and how that's playing
Speaker 2in. Absolutely. Autonomy is desperately needed in the world of defense. You're seeing that in the air, as a lot of modern warfare has moved towards drone warfare. And you're starting to see that on the ground. Now, ground autonomy has an interesting challenge. There's a lot of traffic and other things that you need to avoid on the ground that makes it somewhat of a more complicated problem to solve. And in particular, a lot of the kind of foundational and early approaches to autonomous vehicles relied on this concept of high definition mapping, HD mapping, as we call it. And that really doesn't work in a defense context. You don't get to go into environments ahead of time, pre-map it, build that map, come back one day and say, here I am. And so Kodiak has always fundamentally, taken a different approach, when it comes to mapping technology, where we don't rely on HD maps. And that was one of the enabling factors for our technology to go into this space. But as you've seen it develop over the last several years, the demand for autonomous solutions in defense applications has taken off dramatically. And we're still in the first inning of the autonomy defense space. I think that's going to be a huge opportunity in the future. We're kind of exploring, different avenues within defense. You have different areas of defense where autonomy can be applicable. So one of them is contested logistics. A lot of times people don't think about logistics, but that's actually a massive part of any modern military. And this is kind of Kodiak's bread and butter. And then you've got applications like surveillance and reconnaissance and information gathering. And so yeah, we see defense as a huge opportunity. It's also one of the applications along the way, where again, like I said before, we looked to see what is the art of the possible today with the technology we have. Our focus at Kodiak has always been about driving revenues and scaling the technology as opposed to more focused on the hype of building into a massive market. Yes, it's great that these are massive markets. But you need to get a foothold today. And you really need to show that growth. I think companies have not really proven that they can grow because the product hasn't existed. And defense is just one of those applications where you need to get a foothold today.
Speaker 1Yeah, and you were just touching upon the logistics of the battlefield in a sense, but in the autonomous trucking space as well, there's also been a lot of your peers dealing with the logistics of deploying in this arena differently. And I find it interesting. There's been a variety of different models in terms of how much do you want to have completely in-house and under your own roof from a manufacturing standpoint, from a technology standpoint, versus how much do you want to partner with? So could you walk us through a little bit through how Kodiak approaches that in terms of what you have that is completely under your roof? And what is
Speaker 2your philosophy when it comes to that? I think it's really important to build what is necessary and buy the rest. It's kind of been a given in the self-driving industry that this is a challenging problem that requires billions of dollars of capital, thousands of people working over a decade to solve the problem. That's just sort of the assumption that everyone seems to have. And that's just sort of the assumption that everyone seems to have. And when you're thinking about what you're doing, you're thinking about what you're doing, you're thinking about what you're doing, you're thinking about what you're doing, you're thinking about what you're doing, you're thinking about what you're doing, you're thinking about what you're doing. This technology has been developing for several decades. There's been tens and tens of billions of dollars of investment put into the space. Thousands and thousands of people have been working on it for a very long time. And so it's not an unfair assessment to make. However, one of my observations in working for other autonomous companies who are much larger and much better funded was that they didn't always move faster. And sometimes trying to build everything yourself isn't necessarily the right answer. That was my observation. And when I came to Kodiak, I told the founding team, the initial team, that I really wanted to be lightweight, right? I wanted to be agile. I wanted to build the software and AI technology that is necessary. But I don't want to go down the road of building infrastructure. I don't want to build tooling. I don't want to build things that are tangential and important and essential, but aren't actually the core IPs that are important and essential, but aren't actually the core IPs that are important and essential, but aren't actually the core IP of what we are experts in. And so we've taken an asset light approach to developing the technology, which means that we've had to raise significantly less capital from investors. And ultimately, that allows us to keep our burn down in terms of our quarterly and annual costs. So the thesis there was only build you absolutely need to build, only hire who you absolutely need to hire to get this technology off the ground. And your path to cash flow breakeven should in principle be much easier. And once you've achieved profitability, you are in a position to scale this technology. And so that's that's kind of been the thesis that we've that we started the company with seven years ago and developed upon. And I think, in hindsight, it has served us served as well, we've been able to achieve a driverless deployment without hiring 1000s of people without taking decades without spending billions and billions of dollars. We've kind of proven that this can be done on a much lighter budget. Now that we actually have the product in the hands of the company. In the hands of customers. And so that's something that I'm incredibly proud of. I know the team here is incredibly proud of that. But you don't have it just proves that you don't have to vertically integrate every aspect of a software solution, a hardware solution in order to provide value to the market. And this is just one evolution that I think you're going to continue to see as our autonomy space matures, that these fully vertically integrated approaches are necessary superior and are much harder to implement.
Speaker 1Yeah, I wanted to touch upon that because your materials and I suggest everyone listening to check out your investor presentation do get into that about how your R&D spend per quarter has been far lower than than some other competitors out there. I'm just curious, like, how did the conversations about that go in terms of you sort of realize this is going to be expensive? Let's just avoid that and see if we can buy it? Or like, how does that go? And then in terms of your philosophy moving forward? Is it? Are you are you modeling yourself to get to a point where your overall operations and margins can can get you to profitability? Or is it a question of scale that once you get to a certain point, that's that's where you have this many trucks, that's
Speaker 2where we're going to be in the money. As you develop any company, there are going to be moments where you have to decide, should I develop this piece of technology that my team says that we need? Or should I try to buy it from somebody who's already produced something similar? There's never a perfect product out there. And that's always the challenge is, can you use something that somebody else has developed? And more importantly, can you work with them now and into the future, to craft the future of that product to be exactly what you need? And that's always the decision process that we go through, when we're evaluating whether or not we're going to build something in house, whether or not we're going to build our own sensors, for instance, our own LIDAR, it's very popular, a lot of autonomy companies build their own LIDARs. But there are also companies outside that are purely LIDAR companies that you can go and purchase LIDAR from. And we assess the market, for instance, and tested those sensors, to see if they would meet the specs that we would require for our autonomous solution. and in a lot of ways they didn't. However, we can work with those companies to improve their product. Those companies are footing most of the development cost as a result of that as opposed to trying to bring that in-house and doing it all ourselves. That's just one example. Another example is in infrastructure and tooling. There's a lot of infrastructure you need to train AI systems. There's a lot of infrastructure you need to develop simulation platforms. There's a lot of tooling that's required for simulation, data storage, cloud infrastructure. There's a lot of great products out there that you can utilize. If you find the right provider, they will work with you to tune those solutions and those tools to be exactly what you need without you having to bring the entire product in-house. We just evaluate each time one of those critical decisions come up. We and the team evaluate whether or not that's a viable alternative. If it's not, we'll build it. We'll build what we absolutely have to do. For instance, we do a lot of hardware development in-house because those products don't exist in the outside world. For instance, our ACE, our actuation control engine, which is effectively the safety compute responsible for the entire safety envelope of the computer. That's actually something that we just announced a big partnership with NXP. They're providing the brains of that computer as a partner to really take it to the next level, ensure that we have all the cybersecurity safety, ensure that we have all the functional safety. It's ISO 26262 functional safety certified for those who are in the safety space. That's something, that piece of core IP that we could not purchase. We actually had to develop that in-house. But there's all these decisions where you can be really efficient with your capital if you make the right decisions. I think Kodiak has made many of the right decisions along the way.
Speaker 1I imagine you'll be looking at things a little bit differently as a public company. Being publicly listed brings with it other opportunities and avenues. As we've been discussing, it feels like Kodiak has been very disciplined in making its own decisions about these sorts of questions. But we have seen some consolidation in the LiDAR space, in particular among companies that have also gone public via SPACs. Is that something that you view as being a part of the opportunity here, of being a listed company, that M&A becomes a little bit easier and maybe there are some opportunities there as well to add to the stack?
Speaker 2Absolutely. There's a lot of value from a relationship perspective that comes with being a public company. I don't think this is... I don't think this is ever the reason to become a public company, but it certainly is a reason to become a public company. It opens up partnership opportunities that would not otherwise exist. And also, which is not your direct question, but I might add, we work in a very traditional conservative industry, the trucking industry. It's been around for a very long time. And most companies within the broader trucking industry, whether that's end customers, trucking companies, whether that's service and support, infrastructure, suppliers, OEMs, etc., they prefer to work with public companies. They're not really in the business of working with startups. And so, yeah, I think there's a lot of value that becoming a public company offers us in terms of the ecosystem and access from a partnership perspective, from a customer perspective. And that's something that we really considered when making the decision to go this route.
Speaker 1And speaking of the route, I am curious, what made Kodiak decide to go the smack route to the market? And what do you feel is going to be a benefit to the company in terms of working with the Ares team specifically?
Speaker 2Last year, when we were evaluating the next steps of the company and where we were going and kind of positioning ourselves to scale, we knew we were about to deploy our first driverless product, which is a huge deal in the AV industry. We could sense the excitement in the markets around autonomy. There aren't many autonomous public companies. Around today, there have been some in the past that they didn't succeed. And one of the challenges I think they faced is that they didn't have an actual product, right? It was always a coming soon story as opposed to, hey, it's here today and this is how we're scaling to build a big and successful business in a massive market. But with all of the conversations around autonomy, with the deployments of Waymo, a lot of conversation around Tesla, of course, people love to have those conversations. Aurora was in the market and we were coming out with our driver solution. We really felt like, the public markets with those tailwinds would be a really exciting place for us to be and allow us to access the capital markets in a way that just would not have otherwise been possible. And so we started to look into it, obviously have conversations around the art of the possible. At the time, IPO markets were questionable and this was even pre-tariffs. So it wasn't exactly certain on the timeline of when we might be able to IPO. We got connected with the areas where we're going to be able to do that. 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Speaker 1and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies
Speaker 2and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies
Speaker 1and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies
Speaker 2and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies
Speaker 1and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies
Speaker 2and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies and we had a lot of conversations with a lot of companies mold. multiple trailers worth of product roll down the road and you look inside the cab and there's nobody inside. It just brings like a little giddiness to myself as I see that. And I know that's definitely what I'm most excited about is finally, having worked on this for 16 years, finally having a true driverless product on the road in the hands of a customer, providing value, generating revenue, building a company the way that we always thought was possible when we first envisioned this becoming an industry decades ago. It's finally real today. That's what I'm looking forward to the most. You know, as we scale the product, put more trucks on the road, ultimately deliver to long haul customers and deploy driverless trucks broadly across the entire US and ultimately globally.
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