Knicks Win it All with Ben Stiller! | Real Ones

what's popping real ones logan murdoch here and howard beck in a few ben stiller in a few few one of the all-time real ones the new york knicks just pulled off the incredible i have no words this was just such a great season from them me and howard get into you know what we saw in the throughout the series and the final game and then buddy ben stiller comes to tell us what this all means for the city of new york you know we're not fucking around on real ones you know how we do i'm not without any further ado cliff victoria play the theme music what's popping real ones logan murdoch here in my beautiful beautiful cozy home and howard motherfucking beck they're live from the nba finals after the knicks probably biggest win of the year for the nba finals after the nix probably biggest win of the year for the nix organization history um i don't really have any words for this the first uh championship since 1973 um howard beck is on site right now just what is the emotions right now in san antonio as you're going i had a whole thing that i was going to go into and all this will equally but like just you're there what is going on how do you feel what is this what was this moment like on the ground i don't even know how to describe this moment logan because this is the 24th nba finals i've covered so therefore the 24th championship ceremony that i've been present for but i have never seen one where the team clinched on the road and then celebrated with i don't know probably eight thousand ten thousand i don't know how many nix fans were in the building but this place did not empty out the spurs fans mostly left the nix fans stayed and the building still felt damn full um absolutely incredible an incredible clinch anyway it was everything that that the nix have exemplified throughout this run just they're never out double digit deficits mean nothing jalen brunson can apparently score anytime he wants to um and they they turned uh whatever they're calling this building now the frost something center used to be the at&t center they turned it into like madison square garden texas edition that born in the middle of san antonio just in the in the in the country just it's not even the middle of san antonio outskirts of san antonio uh somewhere in a 210 they're building a new one they can't abandon this place soon enough but i think uh the the nix absolutely um owned the night obviously owned this series winning it in five winning their first championship in 53 years and i think one of the other things that was just really cool in watching this uh unfold and close out patrick ewing was here i got a chance to chat with him a little bit ago before we started recording alan houston is here with us and he's going to talk to us a little bit about what he's been up to and what he's been up to and what he's been working on and what he's been doing and what he's been working on and what he's been up to and what he's been working on and what he's been working on and couldn't seal the deal but they're still attached to the organization and i felt like it was almost like their emotions were just as strong as what you saw from jalen brunson and og and an ob and carl anthony towns and there's just this you know generations of nicks who are attached to this who kind of feel like some some ownership of of their own i think too so that was really neat too um but yeah mostly my my main impression walking out of here is going to be a holy crap like not only do they pull this off but they pulled this off as like a road team that didn't just dominate the court but dominated the whole damn building this episode of the ringer nba show is presented by ferrero the world is watching go all in for your team this summer with ferrero enter for the chance to win a range of prizes just by purchasing your favorite treats like kinder bueno with an irresistible chocolate wafer and creamy hazelnut filling or a chocolate wafer with a creamy hazelnut filling or a chocolate wafer or a chocolate wafer with a creamy hazelnut filling or a chocolate wafer with a creamy hazelnut filling or keebler chips deluxe cookies with indulgent and rich chocolatey chunks or ferrero rocher squares with crunchy hazelnuts and milk chocolate wrapped in iconic gold go all in buy any two ferrero brands and you could win one million dollars official rules apply learn more at go all in and win.com i did chat with friend of the show ben stiller for a little bit um again just like he's been ducking us he's been ducking us i don't know if you broke the man's busy but he's been ducking us dude the man is busy he's walking out of here with the coach's clipboard one of the assistant coaches handed it to him he had it tucked under his arm i said how did you get that he's like one of the coaches gave it to me i'm getting it framed i want them all to sign it but it was only a dry erase pen on it so like it would be pointless to have them sign it with the dry erase because it would just disappear um he ben seemed delirious his eyes seemed a little red um he was like still holding a cigar and i think soaked in champagne and cigar smoke um i'll i'll get back to some of that but it was it was just it was no keep going keep going what was what was going on give us sides so well no so the the normal championship uh procedure after this happens is the media wait outside the locker room then the media is let in we're in there to watch them like burst the champagne and the beer and everything else and celebrate and then you talk to the players in the locker room obviously some are going to the press conference but you're getting a lot of guys in there you're you're getting to feel the celebration the knicks are the first champion and again in my time doing this or that i'm aware of and listen i've covered the losing locker rooms in time so i can't vouch for this entirely but i'm pretty damn sure this was the first one in which the media was completely shut out and isn't that just like the knicks i promise on a celebratory night this will be the only uh negative observation i make about them but they kept us shut out ben was in there we were not um ben is obviously a friend of the franchise and is doing a documentary that he's now publicly talked about um so uh he was soaked the rest of us got in there and it was like the celebration was already over so that's typically what happens on championship nights like where i remember being in one in cleveland and you're literally it's a delirium and then once the ever the media gets in typically that's when the team goes out so you're just in this empty room but some players are you know in corners and like it's kind of like a biblical experience if you've ever been in one of those types of things there's just so many different things with different storylines that are happening in real time it's like you're in a in a history book uh just manifest this episode is brought to you by sony pictures classics a perfect crime film says the daily beast john taturo gives a career best performance don't miss the acclaimed new thriller the only living pickpocket in new york taturo stars as an aging master pickpocket whose latest score puts him in the crosshairs of a ruthless crime family also starring giancarlo esposito tatiana maslany will price and steve buscemi see the film that the la times calls instantly classic the only living pickpocket in new york opens only in new york and the only living pickpocket in new york only in theaters october 23rd in new york and los angeles nationwide october 30th i've seen but speaking of which let's get to some of the game the game we got to start with jalen brunson the finals mvp um 45 points um the first the first 45 point game and it closed out series since 98 and that was michael jordan against utah um and it was funny like when i saw that he had the final tally of 45 that was the first thing i thought about was the 98 series and i was like jordan right where he was literally carrying this offense and carrying this team throughout this series right he was their offensive angel g and ananobi notwithstanding but he was their guy um and just so much that he has gone through right the trade uh from dallas and you know i myself i was skeptical of what he could do um with the knicks as being the lead guy right and then he's he's the face of this new um generation of the front office and in the knicks that we don't lead by leon rose and worldwide west is also in there right and there's all these this this uncertainty and he brings certainty into this organization and also is the face of an organization that has a competent front office after all of these years um and then you see him carry a team like the knicks who one of the great playoff runs in nba history it's up there with the oh one lakers that you covered howard the um the 16 and one warriors that i was around it's right up there and this is probably a little bit more special in a lot of ways just because it was new york and just because in a lot of ways we didn't see this coming um but jalen brunson is the face of all of that what was it like to see you know him in that moment where uh you know you see him in the hallways and going through types of things and like what is what is his legacy on this series and what are we going to look back on when we think of jalen brunson in this final series and not in the by extension is posty you can't describe what this next team is without starting with jalen brunson because obviously this whole era starts with them signing him after dallas failed to lock him up right one of the great just uh just miscues or just just um just just bumbling by the mavericks like how do you not lock up the guy that you drafted in the second round and help develop and it could see this coming on some level nobody could see all of this coming obviously but my my gosh um we we could litigate the mavericks and all their dumb decisions another day but jalen brunson does not project as physically athletically in any way the typical nba superstar right um he has been said to be too small clearly not the case uh we need to maybe maybe put aside or bury the uh get a small guard lead the team to a championship uh narrative now if it's the right small guard if it's a really special one obviously that negates all of this anyway but you said in a about like this is a kind of a championship that we didn't really see coming. And you could see the outline of it, Logan. You could see that the Knicks, they were in the conference finals last year, obviously, so they were a contender. They were in the mix. But whether or not you thought they actually had enough to get past the elite teams, whoever that might be, right? At one point, we thought it might be Cleveland, or we thought it might be Boston, even without Tatum, and then, oh, Tatum is back. They had the superior regular season record, Boston. Detroit had a far superior regular season record. And beat the shit out of the Knicks, too, all season. Second-round pick who was cast aside or not even locked up by his first team. Carl Anthony Towns, a number one overall pick, but one who, the knock on him for 10 years in Minnesota was, he's great, he's just not good enough. He can't be the guy you build around. You know, Mikael Bridges bounced around a little bit. Josh Hart, on his fourth team, traded multiple times. OG and Inobi, Toronto liked him. They drafted him. He helped them win a championship. He was out for that series because of appendicitis. But, like, they traded him because they thought he's going to want too much money. He doesn't have the offensive game. Yeah, we love his defense, but he's not. So, all of these guys, I think that's the character of this team, or the thing that kind of pulls them all together, that unites them all. Like, this is kind of a group of scruffy underdogs in a lot of ways. And I include Towns, who was a number one overall pick in that. Mike Brown, fired by the freaking Sacramento Kings. So, you're getting this work tonight. You're getting this work tonight, Sacramento. You are going to get this work. Mike Brown, fired by the Sacramento Kings just, like, what, a year and a half ago or whatever it was. I mean, and, you know, listen, fired by Cleveland twice, fired by the Lakers. That's how it goes with coaches sometimes. In a lot of ways, we thought with Mike Brown that this was his last chance at being a coach going into the season. Right? This was probably his last shot that he was ever going to have. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Poor one out for Tom Thibodeau, who obviously did a lot to instill a new culture in this team after this franchise had just been in the desert for decades. I think Tibbs does deserve some credit for getting them to the precipice. And Mike Brown brought it home. I'm not saying that, you know, they're in the same place necessarily if they kept Tibbs. I think Mike Brown brought a lot of offensive dynamism and creativity to this and deployed Cat in new ways that helped bring out his playmaking. So. But still, this whole process starts with them hiring Leon Rose, Leon hiring Tibbs, then them eventually signing Jalen Brunson. And then they just kind of methodically piece this together. For decades, the Knicks were all about blockbuster deal after blockbuster deal, splashy trades, and always, you know, big names. But they're at the end of their careers or they're hurt or they're kind of like tarnished superstars. And this was the first time where they didn't do any of that stuff. They didn't go chasing anybody. They got Jalen Brunson. And everybody said it was an overpay. And then they just kept building from there. Yeah. I think that, I mean, that's the thing, the thing about, you know, the Knicks were just so poorly run over these last few decades. Honestly, as long as I've been alive, all I've known is a front office that was pretty bad, except for, you know, the Walsh years when, you know, they get Carmelo and they have the Knicks tape years. That was like the only time during my lifetime that I felt like the Knicks had it together a little bit. And then they, you know, Dolan would strike again and again. And that is another storyline that we're going to get to in a second. But I want to stay with this Knicks team right here. And the thing that I loved about this Knicks team is, honestly, you know, one of the things that was going into the series was always about young and old. Right. And with the Knicks, they were just guys that knew each other. Right. They were guys that played great alongside each other. That knew exactly what their roles were. And then I just suppose that with San Antonio, who we're going to get to them, they're going to have their own section. But what all the Knicks won because they could turn it on in the final minutes because they knew each other the best and they knew where they needed to be. And that was the key in the series. They were only like the Cliff has a stat right here. The Knicks outscored the Spurs by 12 points for the entire series, which is nuts. Right. But the reason why they were able to do that and eke out those wins is because they trusted each other more plain and simply. They knew each other's roles. And that's what I'm always going to love about this team. Not necessarily. I mean, there's the individual storylines that we could go to. Carl Towns, you know, like you just said, playing for his mother, but also like, you know, midway through the season, like he thought he was going to get traded. Right. There were he was scared to death because he loves the Knicks so much and wanted to stay. Right. And then, you know, you have. You have Mikel Bridges, who has the ups and downs throughout this postseason and always like every time he does something bad. Oh, man, you know how much they gave up for him. You know, they gave up all these picks. He has that in the back of his mind. You know, even somebody like Alvarado, who is a midseason trade. This, I think, goes to what I would love to talk about in this just about where the league is going. But, you know, this was a great year because we had so many stories and we had so many stories on this Knicks team. And it was like a writer's dream of all of the things that the subclass that we had that we got to see. What does this mean for the league, Howard? Right. I think we've always talked about, you know, where Adam Silver is. And, you know, this parody is fucking up. I think we learned two things. I think that big markets matter. And I think that we learned that, yeah, it could parody can be very, very entertaining because we didn't know what the hell was going to happen. But Adam Silver has to be really, really excited about at least the on-court product of what's going on right now. Right. Eighth champion in eight years, the league got the parody it wanted. We hit this note pretty much every time, every June now, because the trend continues. One of the biggest market teams just won. Maybe I guess the biggest market, the biggest market just won, but the biggest market didn't win by acting like a big market team. I mean, you know, the big market, the biggest market, the biggest market didn't win by acting like a big market team. I mean, you know, the big market didn't win by acting like a big market team. They didn't even do what the Warriors did when the Warriors were like, you know, doubling, tripling everybody else's luxury tax bills. The Knicks, like this is an expensive team and getting more so, but they didn't do this by running out and outspending everybody. I'm not even sure where their payroll ranks, but I don't think it was an electric tax. So they did this in much more of like a small to mid-market way, right? It's signing Jalen Brunson. Jalen Brunson away from the Mavericks at a time when he was not yet a superstar who would command the Max. Trading for guys that other teams just for whatever reason felt didn't fit at the time, whether that was Bridges or Ananobi. You mentioned the Jose Alvarado pickup at midseason, which was another really savvy move. Mitchell Robinson is like the only Knicks draft pick, I believe, who's in the rotation. Got the biggest offensive rebound of the night. Yeah. In Knicks history, maybe. Well, the biggest offensive rebound in Knicks history was the one by Ananobi in the tip-in. My bad, my bad, my bad, my bad. Obviously, I'm tired. I'm sorry. I apologize to everybody. I'm sorry. We're delirious here. Dude, they built this like a smaller mid-market team. You can't even say like, oh, this is like the revenge of the big markets or anything. They didn't build that way. This isn't, no disrespect to the Lakers, but this isn't the Lakers stealing hookah from Dallas in a ridiculous trade. Or even signing LeBron, right? Like, they signed Jalen Brunson, but he wasn't even a star. Like, he's a freaking finals MVP now, but nobody saw that four years ago, whatever it was, when they signed him. Like, so, what it says for the league thing is a really difficult one, because I think every single finals might give us a different version of the same lesson or just a slightly different lesson. And I do think, I do think. If there is something for the rest of the league to see in this Knicks team about the way to build, it's, you know, look, finding a diamond in the rough like Jalen Brunson, not easy. But once you know you've got the guy, do everything possible to put the complimentary pieces around him. Jalen Brunson, not a great defender, but we're going to go get big wings like OG Ananobi and Mikael Bridges. And, you know, Julius Randle got us as far as we think he could get us. We're going to flip him and Donta DiVincenzo. For Carl Anthony Towns, which, by the way, Towns, only available because of other mechanisms the league put in. Luxury tax, second apron, Timberwolves up against it, feeling like they can't afford to keep Towns at that price. Suddenly he's available. Without the second apron, I don't think Carl Anthony Towns is a New York Knick. And so the Knicks were opportunistic. They were smart. Josh Hart, I don't think I've even mentioned freaking Josh Hart's name, or maybe once. But another guy who, like, they saw something in him that told them. This guy would be incredibly important to our culture, the way that the team operates, like the selflessness that Josh Hart plays with and the hustle. just the intensity you need that you need that and like to me like obviously Jalen Brunson's their most important player in a lot of ways I feel like Josh Hart is is their second most in terms of their identity right he's not their most talented Ananobi you know is more so Towns is more so Josh Hart in a lot of ways I feel like is second only to Brunson in terms of what he meant to you know I guess what we will now have to call hashtag Knicks culture um and so if there's a if there's a lesson for the rest of the league it's like go get fucking good dudes who play their asses off and compliment each other well well I mean I think what it also is I think NBA is just turning into the MLB right like where you have to have dudes that give you a chance to win and just give you a chance you just need a team that's going to have a chance you're going to get the Pacers you're going to get the the Knicks of the world um and if you get onto a hot streak you could fuck around and win a title just and steal one and um and it's just so funny right now because in the beginning of the season we just were like oh yeah a Western Conference team is going to win this championship right like even all the way up until going up into the finals right we were like yeah I personally I don't know who you picked but I picked the Spurs in five reason being I picked the Spurs in six yeah yeah yeah reason being because we were like they were going to be the most talented team right and yeah I think we got a I think as a viewing public and even NBA observers we got a real lesson in what it a reminder maybe not a lesson a reminder of what it actually takes to win a title right because you know uh Victor Wiminyama and his post-game uh presser which is I think Victor is going to be like the new LeBron in terms of um post-game pressers because it's going to be must-see TV as it happens but one of the things that he talked about was um just how the Spurs just did not have answers and how hard mistakes are in the finals and how costly they can be the most minor mistakes can be the most costly that they can have and that's the lesson that young teams need to know right I think we got tricked um into like not to say that you know it was a great trick move from the Spurs but they got so good so fast and they got here they were so special because they got here on talent alone not to say they weren't well coached not to say you know all those things but what the Knicks have that they didn't they didn't have that they didn't have that they didn't have that they didn't have that they didn't have that they didn't have that they didn't have that they didn't have was the Knicks like I said just knew where they were supposed to be the Spurs and we're going to get into them in a bit but with the Spurs they just didn't know who to go to they didn't know what to do in this situation right they're still throwing dribble weaves um to get Darren Fox jump shots and he's terrible in the game right they're not then or they're throwing lobs to Wimby um when it when they don't have any other options right whereas the Knicks were very methodical and knew who they were going to be and they didn't know what to do and they didn't know who to be and I think you know back to the point was you know we thought that as a basketball collective that the Spurs talent could overcome that and we got a reminder of like there's just a little bit more to go and I I said this earlier Howard I think that um I kept watching this series like damn in three years this this is going to be good Dylan Harper is going to run an offense in three years DeFon Cousins is going to know his role in three years maybe Darren Fox would be on the team or not he's going to be a hopefully a completely different player but this team is so new um and that was really the difference in this series right like one team knew it themselves way better than the other and they played to their strengths I think that's going to be the lasting impression of this series first person I ran into once I was out you know down from from our perch in the press row and came down uh downstairs the first person I ran into was Dylan's dad Ron who I cover with the Lakers back in the day um they lost but Ron's like just the proud dad and he's you know without like there's not a direct quote but basically he was like saying like yeah my kid's fucking great man like it was basically the conversation we had yo that was my son I'm doing the same way and he's gonna be and he's gonna be really fucking great like you you're saying like in a few years it's in a few months man like give him another off season his rookie years behind him the dude is already an incredibly high impact player great defender um makes really smart plays just has a great feel for the game obviously needs to work on a couple things is you know his three-point shot among them but holy shit so yeah listen on the Spurs aspect of this if your best player is your Center unless that Center is Nikola Jokic I think it's really hard and especially because wimpy's 22. it's really hard you know because this is what we do right we say well like who's the best player in the series well wimpy's the most talented player Brunson's the most accomplished player um but these are the two best players in the series so it's really hard you know because this is what we do right we say well like who's the best player in the series well Wemby's the most talented player Brunson's the most accomplished player um but these are the two best players in the series so what you know can the Knicks match Wemby or can the Spurs match Brunson Wemby does Wemby's not a playmaker Wemby is seven feet five and occasionally puts the ball on the deck and is just so long like there's it's just it gives it's just too much opportunity to like swat it away or he dribbles it off his foot or something he you can't just say must have a basket this is not old school Knicks of or old school NBA of the 90s put in to to the big guy that's not the way that the NBA works now and that's not who Wemby is so the handicap the Spurs have in this regard is that your best player is all is not a playmaker you can't just so they've got to run stuff to get him closer to the basket they've got to find ways to put Wemby in motion so that the shots are easier and so that he's not settling for a three or then putting the ball on the deck and losing it and there are other players who are great with the ball in their hands Castle really struggled the last couple of games Dylan Harper Deere and Fox and Fox had his struggles too I think by I think by next season like listen I already way prematurely said when they got Dylan Harper maybe they were gonna have to trade Deere and Fox but the way Dylan Harper has emerged so quickly you were kind of vindicated yourself I was thinking about that like that was you kind of like it took a long time it was a delayed vindication but you did vindicate yourself maybe but I also think like like having Deere and Fox and granted he did not make the veteran play in game four when he failed to dribble out the clock or or force the foul instead of trying to beat OG and an OB to the hoop but I think having a veteran this episode is brought to you by Major League Baseball there is nowhere left to go two teams one championship watch the World Series yeah the World Series presented by Capital One on Fox and Fox one no time like October visit mlb.com postseason to learn more point guard ball handler organizer type who had been around and been in playoff series was actually important for them maybe it's not as important now and you do need listen Dylan Harper needs to start Dylan Harper needs to play huge minutes so maybe as soon as next season this is more about Harper Castle obviously you're keeping Vassell you've got Keldon Johnson like you've got a really deep guard rotation already Fox is starting to feel more and more like I thought he might be a year ago um or after the draft last year um maybe he is superfluous at this point uh and maybe you swap him out for a little bit more support but also I think that like that was also a tactical thing it was very much obvious that Dylan Harper was the best guard that they had and Miss Johnson just has to make that adjustment man like I get it I understand but this is the NBA five right like you have to um and that's and and he deserves I mean he's a young coach um and he deserved but he deserves blaming this as well like it was it was in all series what Dylan Harper meant to this team right we even back when we were in Sweden in game one we're like where the hell is Dylan Harper right now down the stretch of the game um so miss Johnson for game one did that happen that happened man we were in Stockholm for game one bro but yeah I'm just saying but like that the thing about the Spurs right now is you know I I was it was funny I was talking to uh I was talking to Cliff and put a little bit on blast but he was like if Popovich was was was coaching this team these mistakes wouldn't happen and my thing was these are two completely different types of Spurs teams the one that popovich inhibited even in 1999 because that was that was Clips for tour was 1999 or that a young Tim Dunn but they had a David Robinson right they had a Avery Johnson they had a Steve Kerr this Spurs team is completely different in makeup from that like they're they're veteran players are like Luke and that and and Harrison Barnes and De'Aaron Fox right no disrespect but like those it's not the veteran type of group that is surrounding wimby right now because they're all young right including with the young coach um and they're trying to figure all this out together and I like I don't want to be too hard on them because this was not supposed to happen they be thrown the champs um and then they just find we were trying to figure out when they were going to show their youth in a different season and I think the most impressive thing about them is like they're the youngest team that we have seen get to this point probably like Oklahoma City but just like when Oklahoma City won in 2012 we were reminded that it takes way more than talent to ultimately win a title right like you have to know what you're doing down the stretch of games and the Spurs had no answer for what to do down the stretch of games even in this one like with six minutes left down the stress get to the game part of it six minutes left down the stretch it looked to be over even though the Spurs were up too what was it like in the arena tense was it was did the crowd know that the dicks were inevitably going to win because at home I'm like yo they're probably going I think the Knicks are going to take well here's the thing like you and I have been in a lot of NBA arenas for a lot of, a lot of big games. And you can tell the tenor of a game sometimes by how the crowd's reacting, but that is presupposing that the crowd is actually invested only in one team, the home team. That wasn't the case tonight. So there are cheers, no matter who's scoring. There are boos at weird times. There are let's go Knicks chants that are now countered by go Spurs go chants and an MVP chants for Brunson. And like, so like the feeling in the building, it was just like, it was like, you know, fucking war between these two factions. Fortunately for everything I could see, by the way, a very kind, polite war overall. Everybody was cheering, booing, chanting, whatever. But I didn't see any real like tension, tension between fans, even on the concourse pregame, fans were like walking by each other in groups, go Spurs, go, go Spurs, go. And then they're coming in the other direction going like, let's go Knicks. Let's go Knicks. And they're just all having fun. And it was great. Like this was the best version of fandom, not the toxic bullshit. version that we've unfortunately seen in recent days, back in my city, but they said the vibes were just weird. And when it was coming down the stretch, I think it was like, first of all, closeout games, they always say closeout games are a bitch. Closeout games are really tough. This almost felt like one of those like game seven, like Celtics Lakers back in the day where it was like, nobody can make anything like so many, especially that first quarter, so many turnovers, so many missed shots. And then late, it was like, the Knicks were the kind of like, okay, just it's just time. And they just started to methodically, especially Jalen Brunson, just started methodically like, okay, putting points on the board, and the Spurs didn't know what to do with it. You're right to cite Mitch Johnson, you're right to cite the Spurs youth. But I think it's an interesting thought exercise to go back and like, look at how close some of these losses were, right? So Wemby's pass off of Castles back, that turnover back in game, two. Obviously, the blown 29 point lead in game four, you know, De'Aaron Fox's brain fart, if we want to call it that. All these little things that could have turned the series the other way. Every single game, the Spurs losing five, which seems like a short series, and it is, it's the gentleman's sweep, as we call it. But every single game was winnable for the Spurs. And a slightly more seasoned version, of them, even one more year under their belt, this might be a different outcome, because the talent is there. Absolutely. And by the way, the guts and the will and the grit and all the other fun, like intangibles that we like to throw around, all that shit's there too. Those guys fucking fight their asses off. And they played their asses off. And they had the Knicks down by whatever, 12, 14, again, 15. Did it get to 18? It never got to 20, I don't think. I apologize to the listeners. I don't have the box score in front of me. I have no notes in front of me whatsoever. Tonight, I am usually 16. Thank you. Thank you, Producer Cliff. 16 was their biggest lead. I have nothing in front of me. Usually, you know this, Logan, I usually have copious notes, but this is like straight from game to back of house to locker room to I smell like cigar smoke to, hey, Ben, what's up, to like potting. So I have no notes whatsoever to lean on. But they built another 16 point freaking lead. Of course, they could have won this game. And a better executing, more polished team. Maybe does. And so I'm just, the Knicks absolutely earned this championship. But I think we can walk away from this series thinking, incredible run by the Knicks, super impressed by the Spurs. One of the lasting memories that I will have from this is the resurrection of Jim Dolan, if you want to call it that. It was crazy. He's had a bit of a series, had a bit of a season. Also just had just a run as the Knicks owner in general. What is it like for you as a former beat writer to see this journey? And I don't know where talk to you. I don't know where you were during the trophy presentation, but like, yes, we're going to talk about the Jim Dolan of it all. What was it like to see this version of Jim Dolan after the beat writer who had to just battle with them all of these years? How was that for you? I'm not going to rain on anybody's parade on the night that they've won the first championship in 53 years and the first of Dolan's very jagged reign as owner. We all know what the record is. A lot of firings, a lot of controversy, a lot of infighting, a lot of politics, a lot of people banned. Everybody's banned. Banned. Charles Oakley. Who? Who? Who? Who? Who? Who was in the building? There's a lot, a lot, a lot to dislike about the way Jim Dolan has run the Knicks, and especially for Knicks fans, because, you know, you talk about how they've been tortured for all this time. It's mostly because of him, starting in about, you know, 99, 2000 when he took over. And so all the dysfunction of the 2000s and the 2010s is on him. I guess if there's a redemption play here for him, it's that he hired Leon Rose. Leon Rose was the lead of CAA's basketball division, right? Leon Rose, who had started off as a small-time agent back in the '90s. Rick Brunson was his first client. Jalen Brunson is his godson. And he ran CAA after his agency was bought by CAA, right? So Leon Rose, not a front office person, not a team executive, not a lifetime basketball person. He was a lawyer and an agent. And the reason that Jim Dolan hired him was because, as Jim Dolan has always done, he hires people who he already knows and trusts or have a flashy name, right? He hires Isaiah Thomas because he's Isaiah Thomas. He hires Phil Jackson because he's Phil Jackson. He hired Donnie Walsh because David Stern told him to. That was an interesting one. But he goes through a ton of executives and he's often just gravitating toward people who he found who are loyalists, who are his guys. And Leon was another one of those in my perception. And so I dismissed that as another, like, here we go again. I've said this many times already. Like, you know, obviously I was wrong on the Leon Rose part of this. Leon put together a really strong front office from the personnel and scouting aspects of it to analytics and salary cap. They have been super smart, again, and methodical about the way they put this roster together. And yeah, like, you know, maybe Leon knew something that everybody else didn't, being Jalen Brunson's former agent and his godfather and who had represented Rick Brunson forever. But again, if there's a redemption play for Jim Dolan or a redemption arc here, it's that he finally got one thing right. The most important thing right. Hire somebody to run basketball ops who will do a great job, empower them, get out of their way, don't meddle. And for the last five, six years, that's been the playbook. Jim Dolan did a lot last week to stir up a lot of bad memories. For Nick's fans, in terms of the way he sometimes runs things and his tone deafness. But here they are. They won a championship. I don't think it means all is forgiven. It does not expunge the record. I mean, it kind of reared its ugly head in game three. Like Dolan, definitely. He reminded people of his Dolan. That's right. And even on the day of game four, when he was back on the radio spouting a bunch of nonsense and trying to, you know, start a fight, with the mayor of New York, who's one of the most popular people in the city, certainly way more popular than Jim Dolan or the president are. So, you know, just picking dumb fights is kind of what he's done. He's picked fights with the NBA. He's continuing to, you know, even tonight, keeping the locker room closed as long as he did, I think was another just thumbing his nose at all of us in the media and the league. That's who he is. But this is his night. We don't need to dwell on it. It's his team's night. Let's be honest. Listen, here's the thing. Oh, that's the last thing I'll say about this. It's never about the owners. And if we wanted to start getting into like the things that make certain owners onerous, like, or I should say odious, like there's a lot of stuff we could dive into. You can't root for or against teams based on the owners, because a lot of people became billionaires through means that we would not necessarily otherwise approve of. So it is what it is. And it's about the players and the coaches and the front office and the people who put all of the blood, sweat and tears into this. The owner signs the checks, cashes the checks, gets to hold the trophy first for whatever stupid reason. One of the dumbest traditions we have in American sports. I don't know if this is the case around the world, but one of the dumbest traditions we have is that the owner gets the championship trophy first. Those guys don't do anything except cut checks. And that's really all you should do. Hire people, hire good people, get out of the way, cut the checks. It's not about you in the end. Hey man, cloud is a hell of a drug, Howard motherfucking Beck. Let's talk about Wimby. Let's talk about his playoffs in totality, right? Where this is his first post-season. It's crazy to even think about that. Gets injured early on, beats Oklahoma City, beats the champs. And it seemed after that game one against Oklahoma City, where it's utterly dominates Chet Holmgren in that front line. And even with the stats, it never seemed like he was as aggressive at that point, right? And I know the defenses were differently – covered him different. But even when – I was just kind of disappointed just from watching tonight. Like even when the Knicks put their smallest lineup of series there, there was no, hey, I'm just going to get in. I'm just going to punish this front line. Me and you, Howard, were at – we were blessed enough to be at a signature Wimby game in Los Angeles right before the All-Star game, right? And remember that game, there was no front line for the Lakers. LeBron, Nora, Luka played that game. And Wimby just said, give me the fucking ball, and I'm going to dunk over everyone. And I'm going to just be – I'm going to live in the paint. And he had like – we look up, he has 25, 26 points in the first quarter. That's the Wimby. And I kind of wanted to see – and I felt like he needed to – constantly throughout this series, after the Oklahoma City series, constantly like just be reminded of, you need to be aggressive. You need to be aggressive, especially with the point guard situation that was going on, right? He was tasked to be the lead ball handler in a lot of ways. He settled a lot for threes. There wasn't a Shaquille O'Neal, yeah, give me the damn ball. Like, fuck the offense. Just give me the ball and let me cook. There wasn't a lot of that, and it felt like, if I look at that tape, I'm scared to death if I'm the rest of the NBA because he still was closer to that first game we saw in summer league of the guy that has all this talent but hasn't yet figured it out yet. And now it looks like in the next few years he's going to, and when he does make a click, it's going to be just bonkers. What did you feel in totality of this postseason? And what is this postseason – what do you think it's going to tell us about the future for Victor Wiminyama? I mean, the sky's the limit. It's the limit because he can actually physically touch the sky. Like, the man could grab a cloud if he wanted to. I can't remember the last time I was this impressed by a 22-year-old. I said to somebody sitting next to me earlier tonight in that first quarter, he had like three blocks in the first, what, four or five minutes, that awesome two-handed reverse dunk. And I said to somebody, because I don't react, right? We're reporters. I don't react much. You've seen this. You've seen this. We were in a room packed with Knicks fans in Sweden watching game one, and I'm just like nodding along, and everybody's going nuts around me. Wemby makes me just involuntarily shriek and go like, oh my God, whoa, ah, ah, I'm just making fucking noises. And he's just – and it's not just that he can do the things he does athletically and physically. It's that he is – he's ferocious. Like, he looks so skinny that you – I think – I think we just get an impression like, oh, he's going to be too frail. He's not going to be aggressive, whatever. Like, that guy gets his ass knocked to the ground so many times he hops right back up. I don't see him complaining to the refs very much. He – you know, games that – you know, we talked about this. I think it was the last round against Oklahoma. He's gassed one game, and it looks like it's over, and then he comes back just absolutely attacking the next one. He's making his mistakes still. There are some bad – you know, some just – bad decisions with the ball sometimes, some ill-advised shots. He's still trying to figure out the best way to attack with his body and skill set, but that's going to come with time. He's three years into this league. It was so crazy because in this postgame, I think it was Tim Reynolds who asked this question of the AP, the great Tim Reynolds, and he asked, like, yeah, man, Jerry West, it took him 12 years to bake it to this point. It took LeBron nine years. It took Jordan seven, eight years. What is it like for you to have that acceptance that it's just not your time right now, right, and, like, that you just don't have all the answers? And the fact that we are so comfortable evoking him already with the all-time greats, that's pretty special even after this finals, right, because it's very clear in his game he doesn't know everything about his body. And he hasn't even reached the -- he hasn't even touched his prime yet, right? And he's doing this. And on one side, I'm just like, we both covered the league long enough to know how hard it is to win an NBA championship and how many things have to go right for you to do so and how lucky you need to be to get there. And I still want to bet on Wimby every time because whenever you see him, you're just like, I don't know who was stopping that when they figure it out. And I don't know which side to go on right now because there's the one side where, you know, the Spurs figure it out in real time and they're back. But there's the other part is, like, he might be the great player that doesn't do it, right? There's just so much with Wimby this season, and I don't know if we could talk about reputationally what he's going to be, right? Like, the backlash is coming, whether it's fair or not, right, you know, even just how he was reffed, right, even this season, this postseason when he had the -- elbow on Nas Reed and when he was, he may or may not have, you know, told his teammates to, you know, go rough that motherfucker up in the OKC series, right? And even this series, right, he fucked up Brunson a couple times, and one of the Brunson hits that he had, like, that probably should have been a flagrant foul. And so we saw the old total package of Wimby right now, but I think the other thing is he needs to figure out some level of control, right, because not just -- just with the flagrant and stuff like that, but just even control within the offense and what he's going to be, because there's so much raw talent there. I think this series was a reminder that he needs to figure out how to harness it and figure that part out to get to the next step. He's got some developing still to do, but I also think to go back to, you know, the Dylan Harper, Stephon Castle aspects of this, too, right? Like, this was Castle's second season and Harper's first, and those two guys are immensely talented, and when you have two guards who can do so much with the ball in their hands and draw in the defense and hopefully eventually become more intuitive as playmakers, they're going to make his job easier eventually. They're going to find ways to get him the ball on the move or closer to the basket. They're going to -- over time, you develop that chemistry in terms of, like, the alley-oops and that kind of, you know, connectedness that you have, that telepathy that you sometimes get between playmaker and big, and they'll get that. They'll learn that over time. And so you've got these three pillars, two guards in the center, all of whom are just immensely talented who are just scratching the surface. One just finished his third year, second year, and first year. Like, we're in too much of a rush, and I think they -- the Spurs are partially responsible for making us all feel like we're in a rush to crown them because they got here so fast. But we need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and remember how young they are. And that there's a lot of development still to come, but, my God, they've already been to the NBA Finals, and by all means, we know this, there are no guarantees in this league. And, you know, a lot of teams we thought would have a long runway and, for whatever reason, you know, free agency, injuries, salary cap problems, whatever it may be, something gets in the way, something stops it. But this team, by all indications, should be a contender for the next five to ten years. So, you know, I'm not saying that we guys are going to all be absolute studs. They already are, but there's so much development left. I'm going to do something that I know you hate, but we're going to have this conversation. What did this win do for Jalen Brunson in terms of his nickname, right? Is he -- is this put him as the best nickname of all time, or at least the most beloved nickname of all time? I know you're having these internal battles, and I know that there's been conversation throughout this fight. So, what's your bid? Let's talk through this. I asked Patrick Ewing. He kind of just said he's -- he made it -- well, he's one of the greats. He's one of the next greats. I'm like -- Okay. I said, "So, up there with who? Like, you and Willis and Clyde or whatever?" And he's like, "Yeah." I said, "So, is he behind or ahead of you?" What did he say? He just -- he's -- the point is that he's in that conversation, period. But Patrick's response and his point was, like, he's already there. He was there. He's like, this championship isn't what puts him there. His play all the way up until -- until now already had him there. And I think that's a really interesting and important point, right? Because you can be an all-time great, as Patrick himself is, without winning the title. And Jalen had already put himself in the conversation among greatest Knicks just by what he's accomplished. And some of that is statistical. Some of that is the win totals, and a lot of it, too, to go back to previous theme here, is just making the Knicks respectable again. Just making them a contender again, a team that matters again. But, yeah, for all of the above reasons, he is an all-time great Knick. How you want to order them, probably it's going to be all the usual things, right? There's going to be some recency bias. There's going to be some generational bias. And there's going to be just some preference involved in all this. I think if you want to bake in the fact that it's been 53 years, and he's the first guy to bring them back to this point, to deliver a championship, if you want to say he's the greatest Knick. Or co-greatest with Clyde, co-greatest with Clyde and Willis, I think any of those things are fair um all due respect to patrick he couldn't get them to the championship and he was injured in the 99 finals uh there aren't a lot of other candidates necessarily to put in there if you're talking about the greatest nick of all time so um i think this is one for the fans to decide ultimately right like the fans and i i think basketball historians i don't consider myself as much a historian as as bill for instance um i'm sure he has uh you know a really well-informed well-researched take on this because he is he is you know he's dived into the into the archive so many times on this i have a hard time with these things i got like you know you know me rankings and lists not my i tried man i fucking tried you gave a great answer but you you didn't go all the way i know you're gonna go all the way with it yeah what does it mean for new york man you've been there you've been there 22 years what does this mean for him my daughter texted me as soon as the final buzzer hit and she's like fireworks like i think it was like a two-word text basically he's like the fireworks are back um as soon as the game was over there were fireworks going off in brooklyn um i can only imagine what the scene must look like in new york right now there's something i talked to mike breen about this last night um that the knicks strike a different chord in new york than the yankees the giants the nets and jets are kind of on a on a different kind of tier and the nets are kind of an afterthought um the nets don't matter the rangers whoever whichever new york team you want to put into this conversation and the yankees have won a lot of championships in the last whatever 30 years it's different with the knicks like it's a basketball city and it's you know basketball is the city game and uh it i i to use the phrase it just hits different it hits different and like listen i've been there for 22 years but i wasn't born there so i'm not going to have as as you know nuance to take or as as passion and impassioned take as somebody who grew up on all of these teams and um and saw all the ups and downs of all of them but the energy i have felt around the city and just the sheer number of knicks gear all the time my one mile walk to the gym a few times a week in carroll gardens brooklyn the number of people i pass who have a knicks hat or jersey or shorts or sweatshirt or all of the above on has multiplied by a factor of like 10 in the last two months alone and certainly by a pretty big factor even in the last several months the last several years as they've they've risen to prominence again like the city is so fucking energized by them and it is a unifying force that's what we love about sports it's a unifying force i watched um sitting there tonight as the final buzzer hit all these knicks fans in the section right in front of me and like i saw like five knicks fans in a group hug i think they all knew each other it was like you know three women and two men and there was just like this one big group hug and like there was all kinds of knicks fans here who i think were probably complete strangers when they arrived and it was just like you know um you know just a a delirious bedlam in the stands as they celebrated and uh you know again like it's the emotion of sports and it's its ability to to connect people that we love about it and that's what we're seeing right now on a massive massive scale because the knicks are in a massive massive city and their fans are fucking everywhere it's 1 16 in the morning in san antonio um ben stiller is soaked in champagne and cigar smoke what the fuck and he's kind enough to have wandered down the hallway through this fucking labyrinth of an arena to rejoin the real ones ben oh there's the cigar that's great uh ben uh how you feeling man uh it's just i don't know i don't know i feel like i didn't do anything and i feel incredible they did something i i enjoyed it yeah and uh i've been enjoying them do their thing for a long time and it's nice to see them finally uh do it at the highest level and make it to the top man it's just crazy what like do you like you must have emotions that that are pretty intense you're like i know you're filming too so you're actually working yeah but you're you're invested in this i mean i just feel so happy it's just it's like that thing you know like when you it's a build-up of so many years so many years it was just like no it's not really gonna happen or the knicks you know the knicks or you you looking at me going like yeah the knicks and like i you know what i mean like i like i felt like you would look at me like sort of like yeah and i feel for you i understand but you know the reality is and then you would like list the reality which was true and now the reality is that we are the fucking champions you are the fucking champions was that was i that condescending towards your fandom i hope i wasn't no you're a professional like you're not no you're always very nice and you're professional but you're like and you obviously know so much about basketball so it's like a doctor where like i'm gonna go hey i'm gonna be okay right doctor you're like yeah you're gonna be okay a couple of years ago i was on your chart but um you know that's kind of what it's been so yeah it's it's i mean i got some questions to correspondent yeah go go logan ben motherfucking stealing what the fuck is up mix baby hey i got a question for you which mix in five when the when the when the seconds were going down which age of your childhood flash in front of you right now i'm i am nine years old i've been nine years old for like the last two hours in terms of how i feel did you think about did you think about clyde like about the old team what was the emotions in the seconds that were going down it was it was um a feeling of like this you know that thing when something actually happens and you can't believe it's happening that thing it's like almost like it's like you're i wasn't numbed out to it but i was right next to mr dolan he was you know he was saying oh i guess i think this is gonna happen i think i think we're gonna win this and it was kind of like uh i don't know man it's hard to believe it's really hard to believe and i just immediately like went out onto it just it's it's a whole surreal feeling that um is i don't really i wish i was more articulate about it but it's like a feeling of uh all those years of loving the knicks and in my lifetime i honestly didn't know if i'd ever see a championship what was it like for um what does this jalen brunson run mean where does he what does he fit within the knicks ethos is he the best nick of all time where is he right now for you logan already tried to trap me with this question i have a good answer i mean look you can't i don't think you can say what his career is until his career is over you know in terms of really where you put him but like he's definitely right now like i mean in my mind he you know he hasn't won two championships he's won one championship so you know right you'd have to say like with clyde right he has two championships yeah um but in terms of like what he has done what he represents for this team what he's like as a player his grit his determination his uh accessibility as a person his lack of pretense um his determination his sense of humor uh his connection with his teammates uh his selflessness in that way his uh just uh overall just vibe is something pretty incredible and i just i'm just totally down with that guy i love that guy so yes i'd say one of the greatest you know he's in the top tier right now right i mean but you have to like i mean these are like willis reed and right you know clyde there's like guys you know for me like but guys who you know carmelo are incredible but like he brought us a championship come on he did he did he did on his back really could you talk about just like the journey you and all your celebrity partners who was having like all of nick's nation but like you guys were the face of it can you talk me through the journey of you guys going from this city to that city are you guys on a group chat like what is that like how does this work we're like you know trying to figure out ways to scam rides and get there and scam tickets i'm like shellamay's like hey you gotta you gotta lead on a ticket for cleveland i don't know i bought one but they said they're gonna revoke it and i know a guy or you know it's like i mean there's a lot of stress there was a lot of stress in terms of like away games and trying to figure out how to get there how to get the tickets um but also it started last year really you know when we went on the road to troy and to indiana and uh you know like i can't it's also like there's never been a team where we've been doing that like this is you know that's a new thing like yeah but it's the belief in this team the fact that they got to the point where they you know they did what they wanted to and last year i feel like we all like we're so bummed out the way it ended uh even two years ago too and uh i think there's a connection with the team where we just felt like we i just wanted to be there so i don't really think about it like you know i know people say like oh the celebrity fans or whatever but like we're i'm just like i look at it as a fan as a fan who has incredible access who's so lucky to be able to have that access and i know so many fans who you know love the knicks who you know it doesn't matter like if you're in the front row or if you're in the back back of massachusetts square garden it's it's you know as exciting and it's as great and so it's it's kind of like just being a part of this community that is really really connected and i'm so excited to like talk to all my like knicks twitter friends you know who who are just like freaking out right now and uh it's just like it feels like a very uh connected uh group of people who are just like so so happy and uh and i just feel so lucky that i got to experience it in person and uh i'm you know i'm just like it's incredible are you telling chalamet like are you telling him like yo back in my day clyde was that dude willis was that dude you wasn't even there i know that you know i know that jr smith is your goat but i don't understand this are you giving him like history lessons what is that relationship through nicks like how do you how do you really cultivate a new nicks fan no we i think we've just been living in the first of all he's not new i mean he's been he's been with it like he's been with it but right but his lifetime right we're older i get it but like but he's you know he's been with it since he was like 10 years old or whatever so like it's like same thing he's just a kid like you know i've you know i've been with this since i was 10 years old so it's kind of that same thing like his memories of that those teams it's not like ever it's like oh like oh you know clyde that was the team or whatever like but they were the winning team right they were the ones that wanted so it was always that thing of like you know are they ever going to do it man i love the knicks but boy they're heartbreaking there's always that running commentary oh the knicks break your heart but but that's the thing that i think is most interesting ben for like a fan of your generation which is my generation but i'm not a fan um you're a little older than me oh but like for chalamet and for younger fans i'm a fan of seeing my friends happy it's great so you happy see other friends in new york happy that's it's great um there you go um no but like you had to live through you got to see the highest high when you were a kid when they win championships this the 70s are otherwise a pretty rough period the 80s are rough for a while till ewing gets there there's you know two finals in the 90s but they're both losses right the 2000s and the 2010s the less said the better probably so like you you had to go through the torture of it to get to this point which i would imagine makes it all that much more satisfying which i think for some of the younger knicks fans maybe they could i don't know if they take for granted or not but or they probably didn't have to feel it as much like they didn't they weren't as uh just just tormented as as you would have to have been over the course of like well i have four years i have a lot more years but i think pain is pain torment is torment my son you know is 21. yeah we moved back to new york in 2010 so you know he was a young kid when we came back here i i grew up in here moved away for a while but came back in 2010 so he started watching games at the roughest really the toughest time yeah you know for those like that eight or nine years so he's he's got pain like he has maybe more pain than i do because he never had the winning part of it too true or the memory of that it was just sort of an idea like i actually have the memory of you know of that those teams so i think like every time i think about it i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm everybody it's all valid like everybody has has what they have in terms of like the mix and i think it's you know if you're a fan you're a fan and you feel it deep inside okay so my follow-up to that is just this and i think i remember you were on jj reddick's pod several years ago where you kind of like squirmed a little on this one because he was asking you about like some of the rough years right but i i do wonder like are there moments there where you're thinking like because you see they make the same mistakes over and over again organizationally and everything i know this don't necessarily want to go down some of that road but just like how did how does a fan keep the faith when an organization like disappoints you over and over that many times and did you ever actually i mean you had to have thought at a certain point we'll never see this day and i know that the point of fandom is that you always have the faith but like i i imagine it was tested yeah it was it was it was a hard time for sure you know i think the phil jackson thing was like a really tough time because it was everybody was so hopeful yeah you know like you can't blame them for bringing phil jackson in in terms of like as an idea maybe the reality of reality of it yeah yeah what do you think well the obviously i have high regard for phil and covered him with the lakers as a coach but like he's he was never a front office guy so i thought he was miscast so maybe that was yeah but we as fans would like rasp on it's like phil jackson's coming yes yeah well it was like mary brown's coming exactly isaiah thomas is coming crashed and burned they institutional kind of like uh you know memory of that kind of thing um yeah so there were times especially i think after phil jackson where it felt like okay well then this is never gonna happen you know and then it was just like it felt you know kind of missed uh we were like kind of like in the in the sort of uh it just didn't feel like it had any direction but you know slowly over the last five years right there's really been an upward trend right and uh and leon rose you know did his thing and um man these players like the players that you know it was like when we lost dante that was one at one moment where i thought like okay gosh because it was like a special magic happening yes and i questioned that um and i didn't know cat before he came and i just quickly you know just came to love cap because i realized like this this guy is again like a lot of the players on the team never really got their flowers never really were celebrated and it's something to prove and he you know he has been able to withstand the media hype and and and pressure cooker of new york and a lot of players haven't been able to and he could and he understood how to whether this year how to get through this year to get to this which is interesting because i think one of the concerns when cat arrived was like is he going to be tough enough for like he's from new jersey and everything but still like because of his public persona and i think people could look at him as soft as a as a personality or as a player sometimes it was like can he handle the crucible of new york because a lot of guys have been broken by by that spotlight and he can and he could and he and he had the toughest test i think yeah in terms of having to withstand that and just and to shut out the noise um and having to learn because look he had this great year last year right and then mike brown came and all of a sudden you know he was kind of lost in the system and he was saying and everybody was like going when are they going to connect with you know but we knew he was a great player but there was the question can he win a championship and he didn't and he didn't win a championship and he didn't win a championship and then he had to deal with all of this adversity this year in terms of fitting into this team or how people perceived him or like this quote-unquote soft and all that which is all kind of bullshit really because it's all just perception from the outside yes but really when you get to know someone like that you realize oh this guy is like really dedicated to winning and he is trying to figure out how as a guy who's you know number one draft pick and and has had to like shed a lot of ego to make it work on this team he is i think a huge key to why why we have this championship yeah okay OG Ananobi i need you to i have a couple more questions of this but OG Ananobi tip in take me through that you're on the sidelines was that where does that rank among life moments number one i think oh in terms of life moments yeah oh life moments it's up it's up there for like you know like moments of like special incredible things happening you know i bet like it's a sports moment like a new york sports moment for me probably number one how were you during that comeback and take us through that comeback and take us through that comeback just all the way through to the comment i was i i was i was feeling like we were going to lose the game i felt like i you know because it was just we were down we couldn't get we couldn't get back we kept on you know trying to get back in it um i felt like i was at the point where like okay we're just gonna have to figure out how to regroup and go back there and um you know i i christine my wife was with me was much more positive and she kept on looking at it and and saying look you know we can get back in this thing and we can get back in this thing and we can get back in this thing and then it started to happen and as it started to happen i still was like not really fully on board until we were like four points down um but you know and having seen what happened with the cleveland game and how we did that it was i was like okay can we really do that again this is this seemed worse to me um though i think maybe a certain point in the fourth quarter we might have been in better shape than we were even in the cleveland game when we started to come back oh yeah yeah but like it just felt like so daunting and then that play at the end is like i just feel like it's the sort of like um epitome of just an amazing sports moment in terms of you know the grace the athleticism the timing for og in terms of you know what everything that went into him tipping that in and what it looked like and you know those the images of this shot this hand of god right the hand of og um it's one of the most graceful sports moments i've ever seen and it made i mean i've never felt anything like it i was filming it too but then all of a sudden right after that there was this moment of like oh my god this is girl i actually ran out on the court like with my camera like filming the celebration part and then i realized oh wait the game's not over because they still have a second and whatever 1.2 seconds or whatever left so that you know that then there was that moment and then cat tips it which by the way people don't really talk about in real because in real time nobody saw it or noticed and i'm not sure if the broadcast even did i didn't know until like 12 hours later because social media started putting that clip out and i would have written a whole story about all these other other things that happened and i didn't even mention that because i did not know and but you can't see it or the crazy three that he hit too where he fell into the bench yeah another pivotal shot yeah incredible one of the most incredible moments two more things two more things one thing what was it like to see wimby at his biggest moment what was that like did he put the fear of god of you what was that like he's so interesting you know he's He's so interesting because, you know, he has that look in his eye like he knows something and you know he's i i don't know man i can't figure him out yet i think uh he's a formidable opponent you know it's like this game even you know like before the end where it just it sort of it all kind of fell apart for them but you know he uh you know when he's on and he's hitting the shots and or when you know it's so like daunting when he would block a shot it's kind of like demoralizing you know just when he goes and blocks something just because it's so like nope you're not going to do that um i think he's gonna you know he's gonna be have be a great and everything he's probably gonna learn from this but um i think you know honestly it feels to me like you know this moment there's probably nothing like this moment i know as a fan when i'm feeling the pressure i'm feeling as a fan i can only imagine for the players um you know it's yeah he is like from another world in terms of you know when you watch him on the court but uh nicks man nicks figured out how to deal with that jalen brenson said i don't care i'll shoot over you last thing i need you to look in the camera right here i need you to give a message it said nicks tape nicks mafia the city of new york going into the parade i need you to look right here i need you to give me some energy i need you to give a message to new york right now new york we did it nicks champs nicks did it nicks win nicks in five idea right all right but that's been another that was of real that was that was fantastic can we we should get ben to do all the shits bye all right let's do it as a group all right all the shit all the shits must be 21 years and older and present in select states for kansas in affiliation with kansas star casino or 18 and older and present in dc kentucky or wyoming gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chat in connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in maryland hope is here visit gamblinghelpma.org or call 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