Kirk Cousins Traded to the Vikings and More NFL Trade Deadline Reactions

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Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tremphayaradio.com. What's up everybody? It is the Ringer NFL show. It is Tuesday, November 10th, about 45 minutes after the trade deadline. We had a ton of action over the past 48 hours since we last recorded. Kurt Cousins is a Viking again. Jonathan Taylor still occult. The jaguars made tons of moves. The bills took a big swing on a safety. Broncos had a linebacker. We will break down every deal from every angle, including everything I know about how it came together. Tom Pellicero here in LA. So is Billy Gill. So is Shio Kapadia. All three of us in one place. This is going to be fun. Let's do it right after this. This is the Ringer NFL show presented by Fandall. Make every NFL week more rewarding with Fandall Rewards Club. Just bet like you normally would and earn points on eligible settled bets winner lose. Keep collecting points level up and unlock bigger rewards. So keep an eye on your rewards club progress and see what you can unlock. This is your most rewarding season ever with Fandall. 21 plus select states, 18 plus DCR Wyoming. Gamling problem called 1-800-Gambleer. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. [Music] Shio, first of all, nice to meet you to join us for this episode. You were you were parachuting in from the east coast last time. I'm here. I like the studio. I like the bathrooms. I like the trade deadline. I like everything about this place. Let's go. Yeah. So what did you guys do today? Just a little hanging out. Shio was telling me about the bathrooms. They have toothbrushes, cobblementaries, the next time he's knocking them. He's impressed by a lot of simple things. Let's say they want those teeth looking good on the show. All right. I've had a day. It's been pretty busy. Started out when I never like I don't drink coffee, especially in the mornings. I find the like I get jittery from it. But today I was like I woke up at 330 Pacific and I'm like I'm gonna need something to get me through the day. So like I call down with breakfast. I was like can bring me like half calf. Right. So half regular coffee, half de calf. I swear they put regular coffee in because it's about 9 a.m. and I'm shaking like I'm on crystal meth. Like I felt absolutely like I could have jumped and flown out the window. We got to calm down in time to get to all these deals. And it was a busy day. Let's start out with the big one and something that she'll you would you would ask about on the show on Sunday night Kirk cousins to Minnesota. This is real. He's back the compensation. Third round picked in 2027, which I think makes a lot of sense. And you know, I want to get your reaction. First of all, she'll as well as Billy just knowing there was a possibility. We watched the game together last night against the bills was obviously something had to happen. What are your thoughts all sides of this Kirk cousins from the Raiders to the Viking? I love it. I love it from both sides. I think it makes sense from both sides. I don't think you need to have a strong take that oh my gosh, the Vikings gave up too much. Other Raiders didn't get enough. It was from the Vikings perspective. We were watching that game. And we're just like, this is untenable. Their defense is playing so well against Josh Allen. You can't waste this. What can they do? And this was the obvious move. It's a guy who's played for KOC before. It's a guy who's played good football this year. You have a good supporting cast. You give up a third round pick. You didn't give up multiple first. It's not going to kill you if this doesn't work out. So the compensation's fair. So I like it from the Vikings perspective. And then the Raiders, they got up on the table at the right. They were on a nice old blackjack run. They pocketed some money. They had a great start to the season. And now it's time to see what you have in Mendoza. And so you get a third round pick and return for Kirk cousins. It's great for content. Both teams are much more interesting than they were. I think otherwise if they would have just stood pat. So I'm excited to see how this plays out with cousin. Well, I mean, that's just for cousins for Justin Jefferson too, right? Because we could see how frustrated he seems. They get winner of the trade deadline. I think so because like if you look at his career, three of his four best years were with Kurt Cousin. So they have a connection. They had that, you know, beyond just on the field, the whole thing with Kirk O'Chains, they put all his chains on Kurt Cousin. They seem to enjoy each other. And we saw him drop a pass after that he should have caught. But beyond that, there were passes that there were nowhere near him. And he just seemed, I don't want to say like live it, but he just seemed so upset on the bench and so over just the general situation. And now you bring back a guy that helped him throughout his career. Can we ask now that we're a day removed because we were at dinner last night and you were, you know, doing your thing, you were talking to your source, you were on the phone, you had the laptop on the table. You'd get up every once in a while. Just we were kind of like the two of us, right? I don't think he's going to the bathroom again. Something's going on here. So how much was in play last night while we were with you? And then what materialized? Because if you kind of were reading different reports from different people, it seemed like the Vikings were calling around to everyone, potentially, right? Mac Jones, potentially, Justin Herbert, you could confirm or deny some of this stuff. That seems like they may have done that, but that was shut down right away. Gino Smith, Daniel Jones. So were they calling everyone? And I guess where was Kirk on their list of who they wanted to get? Tom was giving you that look like you don't need to read reports from everyone. Billy, you have my Twitter handle. I was cooking today. I was breaking news left and right. You can just delete unfollowing your other people on Saturday. You would have heard the case for why Kirk Cousins was if there's one starting quarterback that could make, would make sense to be traded. It's Kirk. So let's start with the Raiders perspective on this. So I'll get to the Vikings, but like for the Raiders, I know there's going to be some people just go on like a third-round pick. The guys, you know, top 10, top five quarterback in terms of all the advanced stats and the efficiency numbers. Here's what you get if you're the Raiders. You get the third-round pick, which ends up being the lower of the two. It's in all likelihood. I mean, the Eagles is the other one. I think it's fair to say the Eagles pick will be higher in the third round. The Vikings hang on to that. They keep their own first and second, but they send their third-round pick to the Raiders. So you get that pick, but you also get out from under a $10 million option bonus that fully guaranteed in March. You save $10 million, and you can now use the rest of 2027 to get a jumpstart on 2027. In other words, you were going to play Mendoza at some point. Wouldn't it be bizarre to like bench Kirk or cut him late in the year? If you're going to do it, and they had felt like Mendoza was red, that's the key here. This is not a pivot from the plan. They wanted him to have time, you know, start of the season. It was not that time. That's why they wanted Kirk there, but they feel like Mendoza can hit the ground running right now. So for all those reasons, the pick, the money, and Fernando, it all makes sense for where the Raiders are at at 4 and 5. Now, if they beat the 49ers, maybe it's a different situation. Maybe you feel pressure, but it was the right time at 4 and 5 to make the move for the Vikings. Yes, they were calling around, and they've made initial kind of touchstone calls on Monday. So we talked through the options, the other night, like, who are you trading for? And cousins make sense, not just because of the fact that he's been in this scheme before, been with Kevin O'Connell, but he's the one guy who's playing well. Like, he's the guy, you know, I know there was a ton of stuff out there about Daniel Jones, and I've been trying for days to say, Daniel Jones is not being traded. Okay, I know people keep bringing it up. It's not happening. They're not trading them. So cross that off, but also he's playing bad. He played bad against the Vikings, and they saw that. He was not coming. Justin Herbert, that's more of an off-season move. Like, it's going to, it would take and the chargers have never had a discussion about doing it, but it would be like two first drum picks, three first drum picks. Like, you don't do that mid-season. Again, for quarterback, who is not playing well? You're trying to fix one more quarterback. That just didn't make sense. Geno Smith would have made sense, but the Jets had gotten multiple calls. We talked about the other night, and they were trading. So now you're down to Mac Jones, but the price is so astronomical as it should be, because the 49ers are like, so we're going to help the other team and we're competing with you. in the NFC, it all signs pointed to Kirk Cousins. If they don't get Kirk, if everything doesn't fall into place and Kirk doesn't want to come, the Raiders don't want to deal them, they're asking for too much, whatever. I don't know that we're sitting here and talking about the Vikings have another quarterback like it was this. This was the move. It made sense for everybody involved. That's how it got done. And now like I'm so interested because it's not just the team, the locker room and what it does for Kevin O'Connell. It's the whole environment around. The only thing they could do to like flip because we all heard, again, we're watching the game. They're booing. There's a six and one team going in the last night, like they're still near the top, you know, bread and the mix in the NFC North, the hardest division in football. They're getting booed. And it felt like the season's over last night. Now you're like, "Kirk O'Chains is back, baby." It's a complete flip. How long will it work out? I don't know, but well worth a third-round pick, $10 million. And upending what had been the plan, which was try to get Kyler Murray there. He wasn't there yet. Now they pivot to the guy who instantly becomes QV1. Yeah, I've covered teams before. We follow teams before where the record's good. But you don't feel great about it. And just think about the players walking into that belt, building the defensive players, the special teams guys. They're probably like, "This is great. We're having a great season." And there was just this cloud over the offense. I mean, it's been one of the worst offenses in the NFL all season long. So statistically, if you look at it, Cousins has been six in EPA for past play this year, which is wild. Vikings quarterbacks combined have been 29. And I think the key here is they actually don't need Cousins to play at that level. Like they need competence from their offense. Their defense is so good that it's like, if you can just get to around the 13th best offense the rest of the way, you have a great chance to win the division, a great chance to get in the playoffs. Now the risk, you know, he is 38 years old. I thought last week was maybe one of his worst games in the season where, you know, he was turning the football over, but that's a one game sample. I think it's just going to rejuvenate the locker room, the organization, the fan base. I do think it puts a little pressure KEOC now. It's like, we just saw Kurt Cousins play really well with the Raiders with Clint Kubia. Now he's coming to your team. There's kind of no excuses. Like he's got to play well. The offense has to play well, or we're going to be calling out your best trade is that you can work with Brian Flores, which I said before, is that the case? I don't know. I'm holding out. Let's see what the rest of the season looks like, but the defense has carried that to me. Well, KEOC, did you take a little bit of a hit, right? Because like his whole thing was like, this is the guy that comes. He revives the quarterback. You have to give him any quarterback. It'll be perfect to find. And granted, Kyler's injured, right? Which is part of why this deal was also made. If we're going to be honest, well, I guess you would know the answer better than anyone, right? If he was healthy Kyler Murray, would this move still have happened? It might depend on how he looked last night against the bills. So you would have started against the bills. If you were still healthy, it was bad in Detroit. There's no doubt about it. He was feeling the hamstring the whole game. Then it tugs on him. Now it's a grade two. Like they may not have had him for a couple of weeks. Carson Wentz got beat up last night. It's a hard thing to say. They did feel like the era was pointing up. But think about it for Kyler. He started a grand total of six games, really only played five to get knocked out in the second series with a concussion in the opener. Like five games when you were splitting reps evenly the whole off season with JG McCarty. Like it's not a lot of time on task. I'm not making excuses for Kyler, but you saw him make good throws at times. And then you would have just these baffling misses or he's not pulling the trigger. Like we'll never know a bar in an injury now to Kirk cousins, which is a wild thing to say how it would have worked out for Kyler Murray in Minnesota. But this erases the question for this year. Now you still have the bigger picture questions. And let's be clear, this is a move for 2026. It's can you make a run right now with Kirk? They do have with that option bonus hypothetically. That triggers a two year 80 million dollar option. So let's say Kirk absolutely kills it the rest of this season. Could the Vikings exercise that option? Could they keep him? Could they hold him and trade him? It's another ripple in this whole thing with the Raiders you assumed. Well, they're going to they're going to cut him loose because they've got Fernando. The Vikings, the only quarterback they got under contract for next season. Sheel is Max Brosmer. So there's there's all kinds of layers to this in a bigger picture of the Minnesota Vikings. So they could also, I mean, now we're getting ahead of our somebody. I do think it's interesting. Is this just for the next two months or is this a longer time? Because like you mentioned, they're going to have a good defense again. They're going to have a good team. They could technically, I guess, not keep him on that deal, but do a different deal. But then you risk the chance of another team swooping in and being like, nope, we'll pay him more than you or he wants to be in a different place, right? His deal will have to get redone regardless. Okay. So it's an 80 million dollar trigger. But all but the minimum salary is in 2028. It was a really interesting thing that the Raiders did with Kirk Cousins agent, Mike McCartney, which also put the Falcons on the hook for about $9 million this year. They still load him. So the Raiders were paying the minimum. Kirk Cousins now getting paid by three different teams to play for the Vikings right now. But because they did that, technically, if you're willing to say somebody is going to pay $80 million guaranteed, you could just exercise the option and hold Kirk because his cap number would be so low, minimum salary plus the priority portion of the bonus. There's all kinds of ways on this can go. The biggest question, I think that we saw last night where the floor could be for the Vikings offense. And it's pretty low. The bills last night held the ball for over 42 and a half minutes. They ran 79 plays, but also they only gained three into 39 yards. Like the Vikings defense, you saw against one of the best offenses in the NFL, how dangerous they are. Can they balance it, Shield? Can this just Kirk doesn't need even if he's not the sixth, you know, most efficient passer in the NFL. If he could be okay, the rest of this season, I don't know how you don't look at Minnesota and say this is an unbelievably dangerous team. They're right there. We've talked about the NFC, I mean, the NFC North is, this is incredible. I mean, you can really make the case for any four of these teams. I think if they didn't make this deal and we did our, it feels like weekly ranking of the NFC North themes after watching that game. You're gonna hook for NFC tears. I know, that's scheduled for two weeks from now. I don't remember the schedule we talked about. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's right. I don't know. How's your Thursday? Let's do it this way. We can figure it out. We can figure it out this big now that we have complete rosters. But after watching that, it just, it felt hopeless for them. It looked like they weren't going to be a playoff team. Yeah. They could have really gone like they had the graphics of the upcoming schedule. And it's like, they, they may miss the playoff somehow. It's not like your one hopping throws to like some practice squad receiver. It's like Justin Jefferson, Jordan Madison, T.A. Hopkinson. They have weapons. They didn't, they didn't trade for a running back. I think that Nolan T.A.Z. was probably all traded out after the cousins thing. But they're going with Aaron Jones and Jordan Mason moving forward. Flip side of it, the Raiders. Like, let's not talk about them like they're completely dead for 2026. Fernando Mendoza is now taking over, like we saw a blip of him right in the New England game. It was a blow. So they put him in there for a couple of series. But this is the first time we really get to see it. And as good as Kirk was, what if Fernando is as good? Like, I know this. The Raiders are not anticipating that this is like a drop off for Fernando Mendoza. The number one overall pick now gets his opportunity on a team that is still in the race. Shield. They are still playoff in the playoff. It's exciting. If you're a Raiders fan, just, I mean, there's, there's almost nothing more exciting than when you have the young quarterback and you're finally getting to see him. And you're like, all right, the next 10 years of my life depends on how this guy performs. But everyone's jobs depend on you. But don't do it this week. I would say, like, first start, right? Because like, he's getting thrown into the deep head against Seattle. So I wouldn't say like, if you're a Raiders fan, say, you know what? If he has a bad game or a slow start, oh, wow, this is a bus. We, we totally botched his first day. Yeah. I mean, he's got a couple of tough ones. Yes. Seattle this week. Denver's, yeah, it's the Broncos. So that one will probably be a close back and forth game. And then he has the Browns defense to go up again. So it'll be tough. Then he has a buy. But it's an exciting time. If you're, you know, a Raiders family has some Raiders fans here in the office. They were ecstatic that they're very excited and finally see Fernando. I mean, the thing we've heard about Mendoza is that just like mentally, the preparation, the intangibles him sitting in on all these meetings. Like, I just feel like he's going to be prepared. And I think Cubi act as there's a lot of credit for getting this play out of Kirk. Anyone could have had Kirk cousins in the off season. It's not like they traded three first round picks or paid him $50 million. So to get that type of play out of Kirk cousins when your wide receiver group is not great, you're just throwing a Brock Bauer 17 times a game and Michael mayor, you know, 12 times a game. Like to get that kind of play from the quarterback, I kind of have confidence that Cubi acts going to be like, all right, we are here to develop this quarterback. It's not about just throwing for 300 yards. Like they might run it against the Seahawks 27 times for 49 yards and people like, you know, why are you doing that? And then I'll be like, okay, wait, I understand. They have bigger goals in mind. Let's not develop bad habits here with Mendoza. So they become like very watchable. Like I want to watch both these games with other Raiders the next two weeks here. So again, great for content. My one question is this because it's all about leverage with these negotiations. And it felt like the Vikings were a team that were going to be interested in Kirk cousins. It's hard to find another team, you know, unless it was the Ravenburg, I don't know if they were calling before Berset or not. It was hard to find another team as of these like 48 hours that would really call about Kirk cousins and be like, yeah, we'll give up a third round pick. So was it just one of those where it's like, let's be adults here. We know what, you know, we can hold the Raiders can be like, we can hold on to them. We're not just going to give them away. Like what was there? And another team that was even involved or was it like two jams being like, let's be adults about the interesting thing here is the only teams in the final two weeks up to the trade deadline that lost quarterbacks long-term. where the Ravens, I don't know if the Raiders are really in a rush to do them a favor in a trade. I've got about that. And the Cardinals who are the only other team that tried to sign Kirk Cousins as a start. So that did occur to me that if they were going to do it, that would be the guy, but with where Arizona is right now, they had of starting their rookie Carson Beck, which I'm interested to see that too. He was great when he got his opportunity in the preseason until he got banged up. You know, would have gone higher if not for some of the background out of Georgia like, I'm really interested to see what he does in that offense because maybe that even hypothetically if Carson Beck plays well enough, that could take them out of the mix for a quarterback high in this year's draft. If you think you've got a guy kind of like Tyler Schuck in New Orleans, Carson Beck shows you enough, not out of the question. We know this Fernando Mendoza going to be the Raiders quarterback for the now foreseeable future with Kirk Cousins. Are we worried about Kirk not getting a biweek because he didn't get a biweek in Las Vegas and the Vikings biweek has already passed so he's going to be playing. Haven't you seen his celebration? Yeah, he's getting it. He's getting it. He's getting worked on. Make sure that he's sorted out. I'd be more concerned about another position. Kirk, he does a pretty good job avoiding the big hits overall. I think he's going to be fine. Colts, extremely active. Of course, he started out a couple of weeks ago when they traded to Forrest Buckner and Quentin Nelson. Today continues and this is where like I honestly have to like go back to my own tweets. To remember what the compensation was on things because it's a blur. Honestly, it's like a full on. It's like the fog of war. I don't even remember. They got five or five. Fourth and a fifth. You know, all their trades, they've got a third from Seattle, a fourth of fifth, a fourth from Kansas City, a fourth from San Francisco, fifth from Kansas City, a sixth from San Francisco. And then they got a fifth next season from Seattle. So like, that's all of the picks that they acquired, which they were short on picks as it was. Getting down, I think chiefs traded a fourth and a fifth for Josh Downs and a seventh per Tom Pellicero of the ringer and Netflix sports. That's correct. Kenan Allen to the 49ers to recap, Kenan Allen goes for a 2027, sixth to San Francisco. Let's start with that one because the 49ers were in the receiver market. There were a lot of people circling different receivers, including another one Josh Downs who will get to momentarily. But Kenan Allen in that system, like to me, that is Mike Evans insurance. He's banged up. We get another veteran receiver who you know you can throw out there, you know, exactly she'll what you're going to get from him. Sixth round pick, like it's good value for an older veteran wide receiver who wasn't going to be back and isn't really going to be worth anything in the comp formula. So I got it from the Colts perspective. What's the impact going to be? He was catching balls. I don't know how much people have watched the Colts play. He then Allen still had some productivity and that's, that's a guy that knowing how Kyle Shanahan thinks he can scheme open anybody, get a guy who's going to know how to find that open spot. Earlier today, one of those like delivery robots almost ran into me in a cross. I'm going to land the plane. Don't worry. I'm OK. I didn't step on one too yesterday. Kyle Shanahan wants the robot, you know, he, all right. I know when this is drawn up and the play is called Kenan Allen is going to be where he is supposed to be on every single play and he's going to catch the ball when it's thrown to him. So I think that's what this is about reliability of veteran. He has a hilarious stat line this year. I mean, he's cut for you. You're right. 40 balls. He's been here here on my filter for 351 yards. So 8.8 yards per reception, which is like, if you have a great running back, you know, that's kind of their round eight yards per reception. So he's not going to stretch the field. He's not going to make a lot of plays. If you ever played football as a kid where it's like one of those games where you only have three people and it's like, all right, when I catch the ball, we're just starting the next play here like no yards after the catch again, do anything else. That's kind of how Kenan Allen plays, but I think they just needed somebody else. They've been so banged up there. So a sixth round pick, I get it. You're right. I think Kyle Shanahan has earned the benefit of the doubt that he maybe can get a little bit more out of him than anyone else. So it doesn't, it's not a needle mover for me, but at the same time, if you told me like Kenan Allen makes a big third down catch in the divisional round and we're looking back at it, I could buy that as well. We're the 49ers in on anyone else. Like there had been like rumblings like Juan Jennings, but he didn't want to end up back over there. And that was, that was true. You know, Juan could have gone back, but it just wasn't going to be the right fit. I think the Kirk was coming to town. He's like, I thought maybe it would even get revived with where the 49ers were because of all the injuries, but no, it didn't really get down the road. There was some thought of downs again, but it always seemed like this one made sense. Again, just knowing how they like to play, other than they get the heady veteran like Kenan Allen, Josh Downs and a 2027 seventh round pick to the chiefs for 2027 fourth and fifth round picks. Again, not a sexy trade, but and I had multiple GMs tell me Josh Downs and the comp pick formula like where he'd project for a deal. That is at best a fifth round comp pick in 2028. On top of that, the Colts have like 90 to $100 million in cap space, they'll be able to spend like, they're not getting comp picks. So you still beat the formula by getting a fourth and a fifth for Downs. He kicked back a seventh, which is something minor, but again, Colts slowing up. I got it with Downs possession type receiver shield. He's got to catch the ball better than he did on Sunday, but he wanted for my understanding. He wanted to go play with Patrick Mahomes. This was Downs preferred spot. He wanted to get there. He goes to Kansas City where they needed something. They needed some kind of help. And they got it. I mean, if I'm an agent of a wide receiver whose contract is about to, you know, is about to be a free agent. Yes, I would be like, let's go play with Patrick Mahomes, and rack up some numbers. This is interesting to me because I looked at the cheese when we did all our trade deadline and model GM, and I'm like, they need someone who can stretch the field and make plays downfield. They've got the underneath stuff with Rishi Rice and with Travis Kelsey, they need someone more explosive. This isn't that like they're leaning in this version of their offense is actually very fascinating. Where Patrick Mahomes is throwing shorter than any quarterback in the NFL. No quarterback throws deep less often than Patrick Mahomes. They're running the football. They're getting the ball out of Mahomes's hands. And this just leans completely into that. Like Josh Downes doesn't have a bunch of 20 yard catches on his tape. He's going to get open better than maybe anyone else they have against man coverage specifically. He should catch the ball. Hopefully now that he's excited, he's in a competitive environment. And so I'm just curious about if they're a ceiling on this offense where they get to a point and we watch a game, maybe it's in the playoffs, maybe it's in the second half of the season. And we're like, you can't totally play that way against very good defense. You can't string together nine, 10 play drives every time. So they create explosives, but it's a lot yards after the catch. It's that type of thing. So I think just philosophically, when I look at look at the chiefs and what they thought they needed, this is kind of a very interesting telling move for them. I mean, it's a receiver, right? Like that's what we've been saying. And it seemed like we were talking last week, right? Which of these receivers would you want? And we had a lot of big names on the lizard George Pickens we had. Brad Feach was aligned with you. Well, I mean, it just seemed like this of the receivers that were out there was not like the one that you'd want to marry, but the one that you could date, right? Like the other one available. The other one for Kansas City would have been Brian Thomas Jr. But I just got the sense everybody thought the Jaguars would do it. And then even after they made the other trades, which we get to later in the show, there were still some thought of like, all right, they got to get a pick back, right? You trade Brian Thomas for a pick. They're just not in that mode at all. They work in a cell on Brian Thomas. So the downs thing, they had had that offer for downs out there for a while, probably for a week or more. And they were just waiting. It did improve a couple of times. So the colds by waiting ended up getting a little bit more offer downs in terms of that fifth round pick, but like he's the choice route guy Billy, like he's the guy who you can isolate in the middle of the field again. He's got to catch it. Unlike on third down against the Cowboys, where the Colts probably win that game. If he catches that ball, they can run the clock down instead. It's a drop. Cowboys get the ball back. They go right down the field. But that's where he fits into this offense, which is okay. We've got the speed guy with worthy. We hope we've got the other guy with where she, like Josh, you got to be working the middle of the field opposite Travis Kelsey, you need some favorable matchups and we need you to make them count for the moves that they didn't make. So they didn't trade Jonathan Taylor, obviously they didn't trade Daniel Jones. Jonathan Taylor, is this just kind of a pause on him eventually getting traded possibly before the draft? It's going to depend on who the new GM is and what they want to do. The high offer on him. It was a second round pick and an additional pick, probably basically a two and a four for Jonathan Taylor. It just wasn't good enough in the Colts minds. Like what the way it was described to me was it would have to be a two plus plus in a second round pick plus two more picks or a one plus in a first round pick. And then sometimes the sweetener. That was just too rich. I mean, I think it's been documented now that the Giants were one of the teams. That is accurate. There was at least one other team that had a serious level of interest in it. But it never got to the point of like blow us away. This is the face for a franchise. He's 27 going on 28 years old. He's got good years left. Like we could be competitive in a couple of years and Jonathan Taylor is still there. But also, are you going to get offered less like barring a catastrophic injury, which is the risk when you hold players at the deadline. There's always that possibility. He gets hurt. Now you can't trade them. People have questions. But barring that, he's going to be worth at least the two plus shield in the off season. You may be able to get a one from somebody. It's not, it's a very minimal risk from a value standpoint. Injury is a risk, but much like I've compared it before to jail in Waddle. They got offered a one, but it wasn't the one that they wanted. So they waited. They hire a new GM. I think it's the one for the Giants. Well, I've been wondering about this and how GM's look at it, like the value you can get in. Because the thing about when you trade someone at the deadline here, there are teams that are believing things about what they can accomplish in the next two months. And they might do something crazy. And they might just make a big off of it. for somebody who once you get to the off season and everyone's convinced as you know that we're just going to draft like seven Hall of Famers this year. We're not giving up. And so I you know, I wonder about the Taylor comp. I looked at that like second and a fourth. I think if I were there, I would have been like maybe we'd do a little bit better. I don't know that we're going to do a lot better. And the thing about the Colts is without that first shot picked this year, I would just be like, we need to get as much draft capital as possible because we're going to need a quarter back at some point. And I'm sure they had those conversations. I know that you know they had those conversations and then you make a decision on what's best. I would have been intrigued by the idea of let's just make the move now. Let's get the second and the fourth. And let's move on because even though it's only 27, he's a running back who's probably seen his best years. Let's get the draft capital. But interesting that they didn't and it'll be interesting once we get to February, March, April, if there are other offers out there and do they make a deal to your point, Billy, once we get to that point, it just seems like you've handcuffed like the new GM, right? If you give away all of your assets, mine is Daniel Jones. You, you, basically you have a fire sale and this is your biggest piece. Then okay, you can come in, you'll have cap room, you can have a draft work with whatever. But it's, you know, it's what it is. Even with Daniel Jones and people, you know, have lost their mind since I put that out that they're not trading Daniel Jones, like here's how you have to look at it. The cult have already paid out like 94% of Daniel Jones money for this year. So you're saving basically zero dollars. He has no fully guaranteed money next year. And by the way, the only quarterback you have in your contract for next year is Riley Leonard. So Daniel Jones, as much as we can argue what the value is, like we've seen Daniel Jones, they were seven and one with him a quarter back last year. He's still coming off the Achilles and you have him on the books for 38. Again, none of that's fully guaranteed. He's got like a 10.5 million dollar roster bonus that was injury guaranteed or a horse was based seller, whatever it is, 10.5. But unless it gets hurt, that doesn't even matter. So you just allowed the new GM to come in. At least it's not empty in the quarterback room. Then in turn, whatever that GM wants to do a quarterback, it's a lot easier to like have vision on your plans. If you're like, well, worst case, we'll just keep handing the ball off to Jonathan Taylor 400 times next year. I think those things all fit together. It also, you know, bears mentioning the four guys they traded were all contract year guys. And they were all again, you can go to the comp picks. It's like, they aren't probably going to get any comp picks because with 90 to a hundred million dollars in cap space, they're in all of that they're going to sign more free agents than they're going to lose the buckners of the world, the older guys, Keenan Allen, like their cap, their comp picks can't even be very high. Downs would have been like a fifth. Quentin Nelson, a best would have been a third. You get all the picks now, you lock them in. Again, optionality. Now the GM doesn't have to go, well, I better be careful with how many guys I'm telling you. No, you can do whatever you want. You're walking into a better situation. I don't know if, you know, if Ed Dodds will be there, we know that Carly Urse Gordon is going to be there. Whoever you're hiring, you want them to have the maximum flexibility possible and you preserve that by making the moves that they did. Yeah. That makes sense. That is like, we don't know who's going to be running the team in three to five months. And if we're going to get similar value for this guy, then it's not like we have to trade him right now. Let's let the future, you know, decision maker make that decision. So I get that. And with Daniel Jones also, it's like what kind of compensation were you going to get in the trade for Daniel Jones to at this point? It's not like you're, I don't think you're getting it. It's probably a pick. It's probably similar to what the percent trade was. Yeah, exactly. A couple of other trades from today before we get all the action on Monday. And there was a lot. The bills gain a money hooker. Don't sleep on this. That was the number one need they had. Was it safety? And Brandon Bean was calling all over the league about it. I got one question. I opened the chat at the sweep today just to let people, you know, debate stuff. And I'd pop in and out and answer a few questions like one of the questions was like, what is Brandon Bean doing? Because I think everybody just thinks he doesn't do anything. No, he swings big. And a lot of times it doesn't work out. Sometimes it doesn't. I'm like, he's calling everybody for DB help. But the problem is you need somebody willing to do it. The Titans has said no repeatedly on a money hooker. You had three, the last time we saw me had three interceptions in a game. But they end up getting a second round pick to kick back a fifth. That's like third round value. Basically, it's a good trade for a Titans team that listen, they're going to have their work cut out on defense. I don't envy Robert solid is trying to get through the rest of this season. But like a second round pick, that's gold as you're trying to rebuild it on top of the Jeff Simmons picks. I understood why Tennessee felt like this is too good to pass up. But that's a really good player shield now that goes to Buffalo. They need secondary help. Their defense played better. I don't know how much of it was Carson wins and how much of it was their defense. But you can make the case that it's trending a little bit in the right direction. So I'm always curious with safety in an in season trade. It's not the easiest position to just go in there and you can play right away. And I know this scheme. So they got to do a good job with their coaching staff. But yes, he's definitely talented enough to make an impact for them. He has 10 interceptions in the last three season. I also like he signed through 2028. So this isn't one of those trades that it's a rental for six weeks. So I see maybe where they got to that compensation. You get the fifth back. So I like that. I think bills fans would have been upset if they just didn't do anything. They'd be like, come on. Our offense is so good. And we have another chance to win it. It feels like every trade deadline. They make a little move like this to your point. Some of them work out. Some of them don't. But they invested in the right area of their team at least before they made the trade where they seriously in on either Jesse Bates or Brutabaker. They making kind of offers and didn't go anywhere. They definitely were in. I would just say on a lot of the safeties. I don't know specifically if they were in on baits. I mean, the price the Jaguar has paid in that trade was so high that I don't think they ever would have gone there. But they were absolutely big game hunting to try to fix the safety issue. DB in general was a big need for them. But you know, right now with what they're playing with their having released CJ Gardner Johnson like safety was the focus. And they got one of the better guys in the league with the money hooker than the Broncos. You know, any theme here, by the way, think of how many teams like we're checking almost every box like are you a contender? Did you make a trade in the last couple of weeks? Like almost everybody did something upgrade the roster. The Broncos get day on. Henley linebackers from the chargers. You remember we were talking about the chargers on Sunday night. And I mentioned like if they go through the tape, they're going to see some things they don't like. One of the things that jumped out at me and I'm not a scout. I'm not a coach. But day on Henley's pursuit on the case on booty touchdown. And it looked to me like he probably was good not catching up right there. I can't tell you if that played into the trade. I've interviewed day on a number of times. I'd love the guy like he's a fun dude to talk to. He's a really, really good player. And Denver had a linebacker need for a while like this is to me. This is instant impact. It's a trade within the division, which is really interesting. But it's also a guy who was in a contract year. He was headed to free agency. They hadn't shield made progress to get a deal done with them. So it's I think a fourth and 27 of 15, 20, 28 like the values there for Denver in this trade is there again trying to load up and make a run at this. This might be my favorite under the radar move. I think you know and I'm not trying to be football hipster here. But I remember a couple of years ago. I did an exercise where going into every season like ranked the top five guys at each position. And I don't know if Henley got in there. But he was on like the next list of this guy's played like really well. I think it was 2024. He had a monster season. And it's like this could be one of the up and coming really good young linebackers in the NFL. So he's 27 years old. You get a look at him and Vince Joseph system. If he plays well, he could be a long term piece for you. You could end up signing him. But he should be a starting caliber quality player and upgrade for you right away on an already good defense. So I like it from their perspective. Um, man, I can't believe the chargers didn't trade more guys. Okay. That's what that was going to ask. I really can't opposite this trade. So they're oh and eight. Why are we surprised that they didn't make any more moves? Is it just stubbornness? Like why didn't you do it? Because it just it was they're just wasn't a lot of guys that they were willing to move. Like they just repeatedly were not interested in moving their core guys that they felt like we're going to be able to help them for the rest of the season and beyond. Like in the chargers minds, they're not that far away from being good again. Like they're not that far away. And forget wipe away 2026. It's more about like this needs to be the on ramp to get us going in 2027. We're not going to break up the ban. Now older veterans like Cleal Mac, Dante Jackson, you know, Cleal Mac didn't ask for a trade. He never said he didn't want to be there. He's really only wanted to be in LA in recent years. Maybe Cleal Mac just was kind of like guys, I'm good. I don't need this. He might like the bathroom. Maybe he's been to the bathrooms here. He or he has similar bathrooms wherever he's at. Is it, you know, is it a surprise? I'd say no because the reactions that they had every time people were calling about other players were the same, which is we're not trading these guys. We're not trading any of them. Again, I can't tell you that that play or Henley's performance in general against the Texans is the reason but that jumped out at me that as they're trying to get a we're all play still playing hard. If you see anything that you're like somebody might not still be on board. That's the type of guy that you end up moving on from again. I like day on Henley a lot. I think this is a cool move. The Denver media is going to love him, you know, great for him. He was on an O&A team and now he's on a Super Bowl contender. I mean, what did the next two months? Incredible. I like conspiracy Tom, maybe like a top five list of guys that played themselves off their former teams this week. Josh down. Yeah, I don't know who the rest of the rest of that list is. All right, we we also have a ton of action on Monday. So I want to take a break here because we've got everything the Jaguars did, the things the Eagles did, And one thing he goes tried to do until they didn't, so we'll do all that after this. 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This episode is brought to you by Nationwide. A football team is so much more than a set of players. It's a complete roster filled with depth and grit. It's offense and defense coming together to make something unstoppable. It's like how Nationwide is so much more than a great insurance company. They're one of America's largest financial services companies too. Insurance and financial services together, that's a whole team in and of itself. Team Nationwide. For your insurance and financial needs, Nationwide is on your side. Nationwide Investment Services Corporation, Member Finra, Columbus, Ohio. One of the things that you guys grilled me out at the end of the show on Sunday was like, "Is there going to be some blockbusters?" And I said, I know that there are certain teams like the Jaguars. They're pushing hard for a defensive tackle. I thought in my mind, like I can admit this, okay? I'm not too big, I know everything. There's always things that surprise all of us. But I thought after they acquired Jesse Bates, which was their other needed safety, and then traded for Devon Godshaw. I thought, that's it. They got it. And the Jaguars thought that might have been it. But they had pummeled all these teams with guys that didn't seem to be available. So they get Jesse Bates, that was a second-round pick in 2027 and a fifth in 2028 for a 30-year-old safety who's going to be a free agent in a couple of months. That is a huge offer. That is a huge deal. Devon Godshaw, late-round pick, I think it was a sixth. You get him. And then the blockbuster. Jordan Davis going from the Eagles to the Jaguars for a 2027 first-round pick in a 2029 second-round pick. Howie Roseman, if we can briefly touch on the Eagles angle to this before we get everything the Jaguars did, Howie Roseman now has 10 first or second-round picks in the next three drafts. Five firsts and five seconds. And he did it without trading any of the core players. A.J. Brown, the guard cam jargons, and a defensive tackle, Jordan Davis, netted you all that. Like, this is howie at his best shield. And you cover that team closely. You're in Philly. Like, this is as much as a deployment as the season has been. Like, if I'm an Eagles fan, I'm like, holy crap, we were equipped to rebuild this thing fast. It really is, I think, his best stage of GMing is when you have a season that goes poorly like a member Carson Wentz back in 2020. And he has to figure out, okay, this sucks, but what are we doing now? And he's able to maximize value and get draft capital. They don't have like two or three down years in a row. This is great value. We can talk more about the Jordan Davis trade in a second here. But Tom, do you remember, you know, we on our last pod. I was like, Tom, what about Moro Ojamo? And he was like, well, I think they want to sign Moro Ojamo. They're defensive tackling. I was like, I meant to ask the following. Well, if I wanted to say, you can't sign Moro Ojamo, Jordan Davis and Jalen Carter. That's three defensive tackles. We're going to make a lot of money. So that would mean they would have to trade somebody else. I didn't get it in, you know, I think because I was remote. You guys were here. I felt like I don't, you know, I don't want to just kind of talk. That's very impressive. He has all these sorts. I don't know if you're nervous or you don't want to. Yeah, maybe it was. Yeah, but I should have asked that question because I think that's a ripple effect of this. Now they can sign Moro Ojamo if they want to. He'll be a free agent. They got to figure out their defensive scheme next year. They got to figure out Jalen her tells you doing health wise. What's his future with the team? But optionality you mentioned earlier. Ten picks in the first two rounds over the next three seasons. I mean, you can do it. If you feel like you're close, you can use those to trade for veterans. If you feel like we need to get younger players on offense, you can do that. So, um, yeah, I think this worked out really well. And that's it, too, is again, you did that. So now you have ten first year segment picks the next three drafts while building around like there's other teams that do it, right? Strip it all the way down. You're seeing in Tennessee right now. Philly still building around. Safe one. Devante Smith. Jalen hurts if he comes back, where you know of all kinds of capital to do whatever you want to do at the quarter back. Position. They've still got Zach Bond. They've still got Cooper DeGine. Um, Quinion Mitchell, like a bunch of guys that they're going to pay on defense to like the parts are all there like they expect to get good fast. And they've got all this additional, um, capital on top of it. From the Jaguar's perspective, Billy, I'm just curious. You saw these trades trickling out yesterday. What was your reaction? Well, so I was going around it. I was like, let me see what the draft grades are on some of these things. Because I saw that this was somewhat not popular. Some of these, especially the Jordan Davis move. And I don't want to, I don't want to betray anyone's trust here. I don't want to name names. I don't want to say anything. But when that Jordan Davis trade came through, there were a lot of hot takes being spun around out there in the bullpen. There's a lot of people there, but one person in particular, who you know is very impressed by bathrooms, had a lot of thoughts on, you know, on the moose of bream made in on James Gladstone overall in general as a general. manager and said, I'm happy to say what I think about this guy, who's James Gladstone's mentor, she'll less me. What is less need known for? FMP. Right. Although not all the time. Yes, it's cyclical. Yeah. And right now the Jaguars are in the cycle of F in the picture. Okay. So I understand being aggressive. I made it a verb that. I think this is an absurd trade by the Jaguars. I'm sorry. I now I can. Maybe I'll make the hype video. If they get to the Super Bowl, you can put this on there. I'm not against being aggressive. I think they're a Super Bowl contender. I had them in my top level of contender. You want to trade first round picks. You want to add to your team. Go for it. This was it. If you would have asked me last week, what could Jordan Davis get the Eagles back in the trade and you may have, I might be wrong about this. I'm sure Tom's that Tom's talk to other gems. I would have said maybe a third round pick. They will get if you get a really aggressive team. Maybe a second round pick a first and a second round pick. The reason I'm saying is Jordan Davis seems like a great guy. He's a very good run defending no second. He does not play on third down. Vic. Fangio has not when they when you know the other team is going to pass. He does not play. He's on the sideline. He's played 52% of their snaps. It's one and a half sacks this year. He's 60 second among defensive tackles in pressures this year. So this isn't like Jeffery Jeffery Simmons is another class of player compared to. And again, I'm not trying to be me. He's been a great like. Jordan Davis was beloved teammate captain in the community and fill it up. So I do feel mean saying all these things, but I judge every trade. And I'm wrong about a lot of them. But if I'm in the room and the GM brings this up, like if how we wrote this up, I would have been like, no one's off for in the first and second. For Jordan Davis, how I make another call, what you were prank if I'm in the room, you were praying. I'm serious. If I'm in the room with James Baston, he's like, we're thinking about trading a first and a second for Jordan Davis. I would have leaped over the table, grab this phone. I mean, no, we cannot do. Are you crazy? We cannot do this. Make some more calls. We can be aggressive, but find another deal. This is way too much to give up for a player who does not affect the passer. And only place 52% of the sand was anyone else in on Jordan Davis. Like did they get bit up or is it just like there was competition for him. Part of that is because, even though like the Eagles just paid Jordan Davidson March. Yeah. But the same reason that he was highly tradable is the same reason Cam Jordans was highly tradable, which is the Eagles use this unique option bonus structure. There's you get paid in the first year, but like it's a pretty modest race. Like I think Jordan Davis made an extra six million to sign that extension with the Eagles, that's all they paid him was extra six million. And now the Jaguar is taking a contract with these options, but it's like his cap number is super low. So they're taking on a highly team favorable contract and how he in a way just bought first and third round picks for six million dollars with Jordan Davis. And for the Jaguar, it boils down to this. You think you can win the Super Bowl right now. You're figuring that first round pick is going to be somewhere between 29 and 32 where that good. And if you were to take one more loss, remember they lost to bond Hamilton, they lost another detack early and he's like they were super thin. By adding Jordan Davis and Devon God show, you're protecting yourself, where if one of the other guys goes down, you're screwed. There aren't just defensive tackles out on the street. So basically it was we need a bunch of dudes here. And then if we take a hit or two. like we are fortified. We have a backup plan to be able just to strengthen. It's a ton to pick. There is no question about it. And every GMI talk to you said the same thing, which is like, this is an eye-popping type of a trade. But if you're Jacksonville, like you need players more than you need picks. Would you even, with the 29th to 32nd pick, would you be able to get a defensive tackle next year? With the 20, 29th, third? Like what are you getting with that? We'll take the players now. Maybe a year or two from now, their windows closing and James Gladstone goes into the mode, how he is now, which is take these negative assets, turn them into positive assets. But right now, they are absolutely going for it. And like, it's entertaining, Billy. But this is, if you love the trade action and you love the drama of like the contenders going all in, like no one is going all in like Jacksonville, except for maybe less needing the Rams early in the softies. - Well, I mean, it's almost like fantasy. They're running like a fantasy team here, right? We're like, I think I could win this year and you know what, I'll figure out next year next year. Like let's just make some crazy trades. I'll throw crazy offers, hopefully some invites. Brian Thomas, Jr. Was he not moved because they didn't get a good enough deal or is it could the line of thinking be, this is our window, why would we give him up? - That's it. - Is, why would we for, all right, let's say you get a second round pick for him. Like why would we give up a guy who can score touchdowns for a second round pick when we think we can win it all right now? That's, it's pretty simple calculus. I mean, other teams look at that. He's benched, his productions down. You know, he's, yeah, he's caught a couple of touchdowns. Like that's his only catch in the game. There's a lot of reasons people thought he'd end up being on the move, which was also maybe a factor in Kansas City getting Josh Downs like an hour before the deadline today, which is like, is there any chance? Can we maybe get Brian Thomas Jr. But like, I'll say this, the Jaguars were very consistent of like, ah, check back, but probably not. And they stuck to their guns. I mean, they're, like I said, they're all in on it. I mean, they do not have a lot of picks now. She's going in the next few years. They have depleted that to a certain degree. And I don't think they care. And I think if there had been another difference maker that they could have gotten, they would have traded for that one too, which again, I'm actually fine with that. I think that when teams get into trouble, it's they think they're a contender and they're not really a contender. I breathed like last year, the Colt, I'm like, all right, guys, settle down. This is crazy for Sawas Gardner. You might not be that close, even though the season has gone well. This isn't that situation. The Jaguars absolutely can win the Super Bowl. They have one of the most complete teams in the NFL. I have no issue with trading a first and a second round pick. It has to be, in my opinion, for the right player. And you can say, well, if they win the Super Bowl, who cares, it's worth it? But you don't know that at the time you're making the trade. Like you could say, all right, well, they should have traded three first round picks and three second round picks if they win the Super Bowl. It would have been worth it. But like, you wouldn't do that. So I just, I was really surprised by that. I thought if the Eagles were going to trade a defensive tackle for a first and a second, if you would have asked me last week, I would have been like, that's Jalen Carter. He is. He plays 80% of the snaps. He can rush the passer. That's going to be the guy that gets moved. I'm just very surprised that Jordan Davis ended up being that player. But hey, his season, like who was the last guy? Day and end late, you know? Jordan Davis goes from a team that's out of contention. So now he's on a team that's going to be playing big games in January. Does that impact your tears at all? Ooh. Well, I had the Jaguars at the top. Yeah, I saw him out. Yeah, no. But are they in their own tier now? Well, they move in the hand. Where should we revisit the AFC tears? There's those bills and chiefs, I believe. I don't think I changed it. Along with the Jaguars. I pitched shield before you got here. When we were in the bullpen and trades were being made, I pitched and I go, you know, like, when we do this show, we're just going to do 60 straight minutes of trades. Or what should we maybe have like a thing? You want to maybe do your tears? Maybe you want to re-rank the trades that happened and tell us where the teams are? It's like, let's see how things play out. But sure enough, look, business picked up. And now we've had enough stuff. We do an entire show. And now we can revisit your AFC tears. Maybe at some point you're an AFC. I'm looking at the AFC ones. I don't think any of the trades moved me. Well, you can't move a team up from the first tier. So I built Jaguars. Unless there's a new tier. Yeah. The Jaguars. Yeah, I like that. I don't have them. The bills are right there with them. Would you swap the bills and the Jags in the first tier? I would not. If I had to pick a team right now to get to the Super Bowl from the AFC, it's still the bills. That impressed with their Monday night performance. I mean, I already had them there. It's not easy to beat the Vikings by two touchdowns. You know? It's like they hunted. It was last night. That's true. That was a lie. No, you could. They weren't good at school. And imagine they didn't have any that many yards. They're like getting the ball turned over. They didn't have to-- Yeah. Lions made another trade as well. Andres Cisco from the Jets. Safety. It's a 2028 6-round pick. That's pretty close to, like, at the low end of the trade thing. But for Sheila, a team that just-- as you say, like, what's the number one weakness with the Lions? It's the back end. They got Brian Branchback. They make it Kirby Joseph in the coming weeks. But Andres Cisco's played a lot of football. He'd kind of fallen out of favor. It seemed like in New York. But I like the-- this is a classic Brad Holmes trade. I know he had some other things cooking. They didn't materialize. But just get, like, the budget veteran that we can trust and plug them right in. Safety. Reliable. Don't make dumb plays that allow the opponent to pick up 50-yard touchdown. So yeah, I think with that Kirby Joseph injury situation, it doesn't feel like they can be certain of what they're getting there. It would be a great story for everyone. And Lions fans, specifically, if he comes back and he plays well, Brian Branch has come back and it's looked like a different defense. We need to get a bigger sample. But yeah, I think they need to add somebody in the secondary or reliable veteran. That wouldn't made sense to me. Any names out there that we didn't hear that didn't move-- I have a couple of specific ones. Real quick. Yeah. Did anybody call about Matthew Stafford? That you know? With this one, we didn't-- No, the Rams are just-- I think-- I mean, is it possible someone called? Sure. I don't think that's in the realm of possibility based on where they are. I know I had thought of other some other Rams guys, potentially, that you could move. Stafford was not one of those players. They still-- OK. I mean, they're going to need them now, because Puka went on to injured reserves, which is a whole other storyline here. But it's worth talking about here. The Rams were one team that at the end here stood Pat, which makes sense, because they kind of were out of picks. When I asked a couple of teams about if they called on this guy, I was like, with what? They don't have the first or a third next year. They've downpicked some of the following two drafts as well. And they got one of the more expensive rosters in the league. They're a little bit on a razor's edge at this point. But I thought maybe you go get a receiver. You know, I thought Keenan Allen potentially would be a fit there as well, returning to L.A. Didn't materialize, probably not super surprising. They're just in a weird spot with this nickel injury. When you look at, he does everything for their offense. They've underachieved. I'm trying to figure out the ways in which they're going to get back to being like, oh, they're definitely a contender. It could happen. They've got the coach. They've got the quarterback, Miles Garrett, was great last week. Maybe it happens. That was one. And the guy we've talked about maybe more sold than any other guy I think since we saw Max Crosby, where did we get anywhere? Or it doesn't sound like anything. It doesn't sound like anything materialized there. I mean, the only team I thought that would make sense would have been the 49ers. And I think you actually brought that up on the show the other night. That was the only team because of where they are, because they actually have the cap space to bring him on. It's a place that's not too far from Vegas, where Max lives. Like, you could see it, but he didn't want to leave. And especially with the ripple effects of training Kirk Cousins now, like, training your defensive leader as well, might be a little bit of an aftershock. I don't think that they were super motivated to do it. Now, if somebody had called and offered what they were offered by the Ravens, if not the Jeff Simmons package, I think they would have listened. I think they would have been open to it. But nobody was really outside of the trades they got done. No one was really in that bucket to go super big at the edge position. This is a rare year where our big trades were defensive tackles. They were downlined. - Well, I was just gonna ask. If you are a, you know, if you're on a Jaguar's group chat right now and you're just listening to a pot and you send a text out, would we have rather had Max Cousby for two ones or Jordan Davis for a first and a second? - I don't think Jay, Jay. - You're like, "Cousby Davis." - That's not your need. - I know, but he's still like that. That's a difference making. Oh, much more difference making Jordan Davis do it. - That's a nice way to notice. - Oh, it seems like a great guy. - He couched. - This is more on James Gladstone. - Okay, well, you're not a fan of his either. - Well, I mean, I don't know. I just feel like if you're having the conversation and I'm surprised that it got to this point where he made this big of a trade for this Pacific player. - Do I have any teams left at the altar that thought they were gonna make a big move or that any teams was like, okay, this is, we're gonna fix this and then end it up not making a move? - You know, I know the Steelers were calling on receivers. We talked about that. I don't think it was gonna be like a big swing type of a thing. They didn't end up doing it. They've got Roman Wilson coming back pretty soon. Pitman should be back pretty soon. So they're gonna get some reinforcements. They did explore. I mean, they were the other team that was calling everybody. The 49ers ended up getting one canned city gallon. Pittsburgh was the third team. They didn't end up getting there. They're just the running back market. We talked about Taylor. They just wasn't a big running back market this year. It was really like Minnesota, you know, maybe would have been open to doing something but it would have been a kind of a lower level again because they need to go get a quarterback and they wanna retain their picks with a new GM in place. You know, giants obviously were looking around. Denver kind of poked around, but I don't know how, you know, seriously, they were really gonna go especially with Joan of Coleman looking good. And then, no, I mean, there's again, their teams that called on edges. 49ers would have loved to add an edge in addition to a receive or shield, but the price has to match up and you're trying to not overextend yourself in different ways. So those are a few of the teams that were looking and didn't get anything done. The only other teams I'm looking at here, and I pull up the stand, - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Patriots didn't do anything at all, right? Is that just, hey, AJ Brown was our move in the off season and we're not sure which way. - I think about future first. - Yeah, okay, so they're just kind of standing pad in this. - But I mean, they're always calling. They're always like, I know that they checked in on a variety of different things, but never got the sense that anything was imminent with the Patriots, but you're right. That's one of the teams that did not actually end up making the trade. - And then Jerry, yeah. - Yeah. - You see, he talks a big thing. - We got him. - We got him. - We don't have to do anything. - He kept talking about, you know, we were probably not going to do anything unless we do. - Yeah. - We might, we might sell unless we don't. (laughing) - And we might buy the thing. - We can ignore those. Can you remind me next year to, you know, ignore when you say, you might do this. We might not ignore them altogether, but just the trade stuff. 'Cause this is, every time there's a microphone in front of his face, he says something about, we could trade for someone. - Or we could trade for someone. - All right, yeah, that's every team could do either of those two things. - It's like a rocking chair with no one in it. I understand the still. - That was Jerry. - Wow, that was what a treat in person, Jerry Jones impression. That was not, it never sounds right coming out of my mouth. - No, sounds great. - Sounds great. - That's been going out of my ears, you know. - We had other news. And you got on me for the FFF picks, thank you, John. - All right, we had other news around the NFL. We had other injuries. We had some quarterback stuff happen. You gonna be okay, Billy? - I'm good, I'm here. - All right, fantastic. We'll do that and look ahead to Thursday night football right after this. This episode is brought to you by Core Power Protein Shakes. In football, staying ready isn't just about what you do on game day. 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How much time do you wanna do on the Falcon's trading center, Ryan Newsiel to the Ravens for Andrew Vorys in the 2026? - Yeah, you don't see a lot of, oh, I'm in for alignment trades, that's my analysis. - Fairly got that one in, huh? - It's a priority. I just like that Ryan Newsiel and Andrew Vorys, let's get the two toughest names to pronounce, swap 'em for each other. That was the other with the deadline. We also had a trade that was happening until it didn't. Arnold Ebacati from the Eagles to the Bengals. She'll already love you, you explain what we know happened and what maybe happened. - Okay, so I think what we know happened is that they agreed to terms on a trade advocating to the Bengals for every sixth round picked. And then there's this guy, I think we should name him because he is the comp pick king on social media, Nick Corte, Nick Corte, sorry Nick, I don't know how to pronounce you last name. But I actually use, when I'm talking to college students, I'm like, find a niche where you can just be the master of one specific things where everyone has to go to you. He's done all this work on comp picks over the years because it's this mysterious formula. Tom probably knows it. We probably don't know it. How you get, how you actually get comp picks, the NFL doesn't just list it anywhere. - How often are you trying to college students? Like they bring you in to talk about comp picks? - Yeah, no, not to talk about comp picks. Billy, talk about working in sports. - Got you, got you, got you. - Comp picks, yeah, probably speaking to everybody who's like just getting here on this game. It's based on your free agent gains and losses for a specific window starting at the start of free agency. It's only understricted free agents. It's not guys who have been released. It's literally just the guys who are on somebody else's roster, those count as losses. And if you sign a UFA, that counts as a game. They offset each other. And then it's based on your performance level, your service time, your salary, and they come to the conclusion of what the picks are actually gonna be. So there are thoughts that after this trade is announced on social media, not official, but it's announced that it's expected to happen that Nick puts out this tweet that they're actually going to lose a third round comp pick because they had trade hundreds in leaving free agency. So they were getting I think a third round comp pick. But I don't know the exact details of it. 'Cause again, it's very mysterious. But basically, not only are you trading a six to the Eagles, but you're gonna lose a third round pick. Then we find out that the Bengals are like, no, no, no. Well, you don't wanna do that. We're not doing this deal. This deals on. So I don't know if those are the exact details of what happened, but it's possible that a tweet sent from the comp pick king on social media that the Bengals then saw and didn't realize initially forced them to back out of this trade 'cause they didn't wanna lose it. - And there's a little convoluted. Like, again, I'll admit, I didn't realize that if you traded your UFA signing, that actually took it off your cop books and put it on the other teams. - I didn't realize that. - If I had heard that before if I probably had it at some point, like it had receded into the deep recesses of my brain. I didn't remember that. But essentially, the Eagles thought they had a trade done. The Bengals who never trade for anybody, Billy, were going to do a trade and now it's off in the roll through the gap. - How do you just say never mind? After it's like, yeah, we agreed on this trade. I mean, barring like, you know, where you could play the games around the-- - No, there's actually a process. There are trade papers. Till both sides filed the trade papers, which if you remember once upon a time, the facts issue with Elvis Dumerville, where they didn't fax in the trade papers in time, or he didn't fax back his contract, whatever it was. There have been a couple occasions where like the trade papers didn't go through and it blew up. I think there was a, wasn't the Browns trying to trade for a quarterback and the papers didn't get in. I'm like, going back, there's like, there's been a couple of these. But basically, until once you submit them, you can't, to my understanding, you can't withdraw them. - Well, there's a funny business of, oh, no, I didn't pass the physical, so never mind, this is off. - Well, here's what-- - But even then, they didn't have trade papers drawn up. They had an agreement to give Max Crosby a physical. - Yeah, pending physical. - But once you submit the papers, it's different. - So I didn't know this rule. You were saying you didn't. If you work for a front office, you probably should know it. But if you don't, here's what I want, here's what I want the Bengals to do. They need to be honest about this. This is the PR move. If they actually saw this tweet, and they were like, wait a minute, call the Eagles back, we're not doing the trade, they should be giving something to this guy. This guy saved them a third-round pick. That's like, think of how hesitant teams are to give up third-round picks. A one tweet, but it's crazy. It's actually crazy. If that's actually what happened, they saw the tweet, and they're like, we're not doing this anymore. At least send the guy something. Do you bring him into Cincinnati for a game, give him field passes, whatever, do something, because that's the right PR move, rather than just denying it and saying, we're not going to talk about it. - Do you even make the call and acknowledge, like, hey, you know what, never mind this trade is off. We saw something, or you're just like, - Yeah, let's talk about it. - That's not a change of heart, you know? - Really. - This is for like a rotational defense, the edge rusher, this isn't like, you know, this isn't a blockbuster trade. - Decent player, like I don't know how to go to the KD. - Yeah, I mean, he would have given him some good snaps, but you would never trade a third in a second. - Yeah. - We also had some drama today, if you were in full tankathon mode, which right now, I think it's fair to say, there are only six teams that you would say are in that bucket where like, you're clearly out, because there are two NFC divisions that are terrible, right? There's two NFC divisions that are really, really bad. The only team that's officially like wave the white flag on their season is the Eagles. We'll get to the commanders momentarily, if they play the Giants on Thursday night football and again, that's basically the save their season. Like the Eagles are done, right? They are out, they are making no bones about it. They're not trying to pretend they're done. AFC, I would say there are five teams. It's the Jets, the Colts, the Dolphins, the Titans, and the Chargers. Nobody's mathematically eliminated yet, but that's only six teams, which also could have fostered an environment where we had less trades that ended up getting done. Go ahead. - It's also five teams, right? Because the Jets have the Colts pick. So Colts are not gonna get the number one pick, and if they do, they send the Jets. So the Jets have two opportunities first round pick. - Also true. But six teams that realistically could be in there, and then yes, that pick would transfer over. One of those teams had a significant development on that front. And it's the Miami Dolphins. They're one in seven. They knew going in, this is gonna be a rough year. I give Jeff Hathley a ton of credit because every week, they're playing really good teams. You can't lie in this patch. We get like, they're playing everybody hard. And they held the lines to what? 19 points to think in that game. Like they're doing everything they can, but they're not good. Malik Willis had been playing, I was told, with a growing issue. If you saw the game last week, and I had a coordinator text me this day, he's like, yeah, he did not look right in that game. So he's like dragging around. Well, he had an additional MRI. They found out it would actually move in like an inner core muscle injury. So he has to rest, it's not a surgical thing right now. But Malik Willis is now shut down for at least four weeks, maybe longer, they don't think it's season ending. But Kyle McCord, who they traded for, at the cut down deadline in August, has never played an NFL snap in a regular season game, is now the starting quarterback for the Miami Dolphin Shield. Again, this is not a tank move. I want to be clear, he is hurt. But if you wanted the tank, this doesn't hurt your ability to potentially get the number one pick. Your biggest danger in that is again, They're still playing. hardener in these games that might steal a couple more. You know, Billy, you're probably watching them more than I am. I I've been in I feel like they've walked a nice fine line between. We're not trying to win 10 games this year, but we want guys to play hard. You're right. Time. I mean, they were in that Lions game. The week before they're in that Patriots game. They beat the jets the week before they lose to the Bengals by one possession. The Vikings by one possession was close. Yeah, season two. Yeah. So so I don't think they have the best bad team in the league. Yeah. Okay. They also lost sacks. So like they took some hits today. Right. And if you are a dolphins fan, like you could see this deadline and you're saying it's not intentional. I believe that it's not intentional. Right. But like some teams are trying to get really hurt. No, no, I believe that he's really turning. You've watched the game. Did he look like a healthy man? Well, I mean, he doesn't look good. I'll see them. But some teams are trying to get better. I think he's been okay. I think he's been not he's been a below average quarterback. Well, the jets game. They look to me like this guy can't start in the end. No. The dolphins goal is to do as best as they can in the draft. So this is the dolphins straight deadline. It was like this has increased their chances of getting a better pick in the draft. But the dolphins also. Not to be like an apologist or defender of the dolphins, but they're in such a bad spot with like the cat, the dead cat money that they have that this year and next year is basically just we need to get out of cap hell and we need to get out of the former players that were paying all of this money too. It's not like they're trying to be bad. They're not trying to tank. They just physically financially they can't do much better than they're doing because they owe so much money to so many players that are not playing on their team anymore. So they're trying. They're not. They don't want to be bad. What outcome are you rooting for in general? Like at this point, right? All right. You wanted to lose. That's the short version. I mean for like making the Sundays more entertaining. You like a win here and there. But when you're that close to the top. You're not going to pick. I wonder, right? Because you also have to believe that you're going to. We both just set up straight like. Hey. Well, no, because like you you want the number one pick, but also. You want to know that you're going to hit on the number one pick, right? And you. You don't have an Andrew Lock who you're like, we got a tent. Well, because it's not going to end up being that type of year all of a sudden, right? But it's also what position are you going for? Like are you going after a quarter back? Because you have Malik for the next, you know, this season next season, whatever. He's not the quarterback of the future. But. Is there a quarterback of the future for sure in this draft? There's no Andrew look like you're saying. I mean, headed into the college, he's like, arch is the next big thing. And that season hasn't played out well for arch. So much so that we're talking about. Does arch go back to college next season? Maybe play for a different team that's not Texas. So I mean, yeah, you know what? You like the idea of the number one pick. By the way, fun, fun little feature on the sweep. You can listen to the sweep while you're driving. They say listen button on the sweep. You're breaking news to me. Yeah. Big breaking news days. Is that real? Yeah, it is. I listened to a while. So I was driving. Go to the sweep and you can listen to my column as Billy just informed. But it's not Tom's boy. I've been writing this for two months. No one told me that. Well, I also dictated that would save me a hell of a lot of time on Fridays. You probably could. If we're going to be honest, I would assume there's some sort of AI involved in this. It's probably not popular that it's there. But while you're driving, it's not your voice. It's not your voice. But it's safer to listen to Tom's article and Tom's column then to read it while you're driving. Don't be looking at your phone. Exactly. Unless you're in a self-driving car. But the point is, this is, this is, improves it all for chance of getting number one pick. It's a new GM. A new coach. You're not for sure knowing exactly what they're going to do and what they're thinking here. So yeah, it's exciting. You want to be the number one pick. Well, you also wanted to hit him. There's so many misses in this draft. The thing on Malik Willis is interesting because one of the reasons obviously, Jeff Haftley and John Eric Sullivan have been with him in green base. They knew him. Part of the reason they wanted to bring him, besides the fact that he played pretty good and very limited snaps and then throw the ball a ton was his like personality and the person could handle what was going to be a really difficult couple of years. So I don't think Malik Willis being on the roster in 2027 and signing guaranteed money next year is a hindrance to whatever you want to do. Even drafting a quarterback because you probably don't want to put the quarterback on the field in 2027. This is not even Fernando with the Raiders. Raiders have some pieces like they do have they can run the football and they do have some veterans on the team like Miami. It's going to be a it's really going to be a process here. 2028 is really what you're looking at for the dolphins to be competitive. So I think that the doors wide open. Are you going to go get Jeremiah Smith, a generational wide receiver? Let's say let's just say top five pick. We don't know who's number one right now. If you got a top five pick, do you go get the receiver? Do you take one of these quarterbacks? We don't know outside of a couple of them who's coming out because only you know Trinidad Shambles and maybe one or two other guys are out of out of eligibility under all the new rules here. So again for Miami like yeah, you do honestly. I would say if you actually asked the people who work in the dolphin turn office like they didn't want to go in 17 either. They want to get some wins because losing close gets old for the locker room and you're building a culture and you see that every week. Like two or three is probably enough. You know like let's make sure. Top five pick and again Kyle McCord, who people remember from his college days at Ohio State and then very productive once he got the Syracuse. First NFL start is going to be this week against of all teams, the Colts, who just traded away their wide receivers earlier today. That Colts pick that goes to the Jets right now would be the fourth overall pick in the draft. The chargers would have the first overall pick in the draft right now. If the season ended today, what are your, what are the odds that that stays that way that the chargers have the first overall pick in the draft like do you expect them to win? They have to win you by accident. You think it's something. I thought so by now. Well, you have to be within 20 points to win by accident and they've had, they've had some bad was they've had some decent moments along the way like in terms of being competitive. There was that stretch. Want to say I'm looking at the schedule is like, yeah week four week five week three even the bills, C.O.X. Brock was a tough stretch. But they were in all those games, but then they could do nothing against the chiefs. Nothing against the Rams. The Texans was, I mean, they did nothing against the Texans. Still the game was over the last three weeks on offense. It's been abysmal. Now they play the Ravens granted on Monday night. You all get to watch it with Jacobi were set making his debut. Then he got, he had the jets piece. Herbert's got the injury. Herbert is. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised knowing Herbert if he plays like he plays through everything. But it was not, it didn't look great in the game like he'd do have to to weigh that thing out. They're oh and eight. The Titans and the dolphins have one win a piece every other team has at least at least two wins. So man, that it is going to be an interesting top five. That is a storyline the rest of the way here. So Thursday night football. Commanders at Giants, Billy. This is the one you've been waiting for. I actually honestly, I am excited to watch this game. Yeah. Because it is closure from the first one. There's not. Yeah. We've been waiting. This is like when a rubber match is like in baseball when like it starts raining the fourth day. And they're like, that'll be made up as part of a split double header in August. Yeah. That's where I feel like we are. We're just resuming and starting all over again. It's compelling to me because I just said the dolphins are probably the best bad team in the league. The commanders might be the worst good team. I actually think that they have the talent to compete, especially in that division. But time and again, we've just seen baffling things happen, not the whole game. But critical moments and you just don't get the sense like they've got to handle on how to win. But if they somehow beat the Giants, which they were a field goal attempt from potentially doing about a month ago. If they win that game, they are two games back in the division with the tiebreaker over the Giants. Like they're not done. Jaden looks pretty good. Again, set aside the brainfarts in the fourth quarter. If they can go into the Giants and win, they're back in that division. If you lose, now you're on the death march. And we're talking about all the other ripple effects that that could have across the Washington organization. So the Giants are five, two and one. The commanders are two, five and one. The Giants are at home. And they are one and a half point favorites. That just tells you that there is not a lot separating despite the records. These are viewed basically means if they were that you get three points at home. Yeah, and now we're talking about one and a half points better than the Giants. Or at the very worst, I'm with you on Jaden Daniels. It's like even last week that annoyed me the end of that game. But if you watch him for the entire game, like there was a chance where the floor was going to be a lot lower for him than anyone thought it was going to be. That hasn't been the case. They have stretches of these games where you're like, this is a functional offense. He's running the offense. He's competent. He's completing passes. He's making a play outside of structures running a little bit. And then you get to the end of these games and you're like, how is this still happening? I mean, the one last week, I know we discussed it. But it's just like it was a hook and ladder at the end of the game that they threw five yards. And your 32 yards, your 32 yards away, like there should be a play where you can get that ball in the end zone. I know they're thinking maybe they're going to blitz here or whatever. But for that to be happening, and then you had to four down right through the ball away was at the previous week or two weeks earlier. And then you had the big gap. It's just I don't understand how this keeps happening. And I do we haven't had a coach fired yet this season. I mean, I this it feels like a big spot for Dan Quinn where if you're national TV, you get embarrassed here. You're two six and one. And if you have a terrible ending or something, I mean, who knows? I was going to ask is it. I mean, is this then fallen coaching? Is it like Dan Quinn? I don't know who to blame when he keeps happening like this, honestly. Well, tough. It may not be his fault, but will he be the one that faces the repercussions of this? Most likely. And then he'd take David Blow with them. The offensive coordinator like between those two and Jaden. There's just. been gaps that have popped up, you know, even again, I go back to the not the last play in that game, but the second to last play. Like almost every coach would tell you, if not two shots to the endzone, on that second and 10 from the 31, like just running out and get 10 more yards, you can run a real play. Like even at the 31, you can run a real play not a throw the ball up. Like run just run a go ball to somebody, like give Stefan digs a chance, whatever it is. Instead of you run a what a post the digs in the middle of the field where it's going to be the game over. Like those are the things that would have been even worse if they completed that. It would have been it would have been yeah, exactly. But like the previous play was like what purpose would that have served you want to okay, yeah, gain some more yards. Great, but not in the middle of the field. It's just again, that that to me is Jayden. Like there's no way they're telling him, hey, throw throw the post, throw the scene, whatever it was to digs. It's a big spot for him. Jayden McCarthy of course got banged up. He went through all stages of Jay Jay McCarthy in that game where he's good. He's bad. He's hurt. He's back. Like that was every Jay Jay McCarthy game in one. And think about this for the Vikings too. Go ahead Billy. We didn't talk about Stefan digs didn't get move. Was any interest on him anyone calling on him? It sounded like it. Fanners were in a weird spot because they play Thursday night. And so like you're in the middle of the game plan week, then you trade your best receiver. Yeah, it would have been tough. Also digs is bounced around. There's some opinions out there. Like I've always liked Stefan. He practices really hard. He does get frustrated. There are times that boils over. I thought someone would make a play for digs, they did not. What I was going to say is I'm Minnesota. You think about the whole arc of their quarterback position in this off season. So going all the way back to March, you sign Kyler Murray to compete with Jay Jay McCarthy. Kyler beats him out. You then you also bring back Carson Wentz. You go into August before you eventually get the word. Okay, it's going to be Jay Jay. There's going to be Kyler rather. So now Jay Jay shuffle all the way to third string. You flip Jay Jay for a fifth round pick. Kyler gets hurt. You know up and down play. Good moments but bad moments gets hurt. Carson goes out there plays the worst game we've ever seen. Definitely this year. The worst quarterback game in the NFL. Now you trade a third for Kirk Cousins. If you go back in time, obviously the Vikings could have also just signed Kirk, but they weren't going to do it. But essentially it's you traded a third round pick and Jay Jay McCarthy for Kirk Cousins and a fifth round pick. I think most people would go, yeah, we made out okay. It's not how we not about how we got there. That part wasn't ideal. But the outcome ends up with a stable veteran now taking over with one of the best defense. And then interesting what if if they would have just kept Kirk Cousins years ago. I mean, that really is a fork in the road moment than Darnel. He doesn't tear his Achilles. Yeah. Green Bay. The last game to play with Minnesota. Now this week plays Green Bay in his return. He was playing probably the best football of his career under Kevin O'Connell in 2023. Tears of Achilles. I think it was in October gets that deal with the Falcons, but like he wasn't right. We talked about Daniel Jones. Like the first year off the Achilles. None of these guys are right. And then you know, he gets banned. He's got a foot that probably was related to Achilles. They put Michael Pennick's junior in like all these things. Like it's the big, it's the Charlie from always sunny board, right? We're like you're connecting it. So if Kirk Cousins hadn't torn the Achilles, he never would have gone to Atlanta, which then they wouldn't have drafted Michael Pennicks to be the replacement. They wouldn't have the pressure. So then Kirk only becomes available because the Raiders needed because they're drafted like and then Darnel to the Seahawks when the sea. Yeah. I mean, there's a walker. I mean, that's so much that could have happened. That's right. Are the bathrooms this night? Thanks. Does Kirk Cousins ever come back? If Daniel Jones doesn't turn down the Vikings that take basically the same offer with the Colts, who now keep Daniel Jones to make him not an option for the Vikings, who go and get Kirk Cousins back? I think we're going to leave it right there. What if Anthony Richardson never heard his eyeball? No. That. No. Sheesh. I think that would ship itself a little bit by that point. No sign somewhere. That's where you drew the line. Anthony Richardson could be the next, you know, whatever. Trey Lance guy was like, Oh, he's a very solid player. Revive his career. He could be Sam Darnel. We just guys barely played football in his career. We are out here all week. So we're doing another show. Yeah. Thursday post game, right? Uh, Thursday night football. Giants commanders think so. If it's a tie, I'm out. Oh, just if it's tie again, I think it's just you two. I think I'm just going to draw the line right there before I go. I'm just going straight, having a whiskey and then going to get on that red eye back. I think that's what's going to happen. Uh, the sweep will have more there. Uh, everything from trade deadline week, uh, throughout this week and again on Saturday as well. So thanks for the whole team. Thanks to whoever set up the bathrooms for shield. Yeah. Nice job by them. Real trade debt. If you're doing trade deadline winners and losers, make sure you get them in the winners. Uh, thanks to our junior Chris, the entire team out here. It's been been awesome so far in LA again, back with the new episode in a couple of days for Billy and Sheila and Tom. We'll see you. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas, star casino or 18 plus and present in DC or Wyoming gambling problem called 1 800 gambler or 1 800, my reset. Call 1 8 8 8 7 8 9 7 7 7 7 7 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. 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