Kind en gedrag: ADHD en autisme

This is the podcast "Verborgen taal". Communication with the subconscious. A podcast by the training institute for integral coaching and therapy by Yolanda Vleugel. We take you with us in the work of the subconscious and how conscious you can change your life here. A lot of listening pleasure. Welcome to the podcast "Verborgen taal". In this episode, Judith, Lenneke and I are going to talk about child and behaviour. And specifically about ADHD and autism in children. Because we received a lot of questions from you. So we thought it was important to make an episode about that. And we will look at this behaviour from a non-systemic perspective. So hello ladies. Nice that you are here again. We would like to start with an important statement we have. To discuss it. That is that behaviour and how behaviour is. And not who someone really is from within. That is also the behaviour that a child shows. It is behaviour and not who it is in essence. And the behaviour that a child shows is a reflection of something that can be played in the family. Or both parents. So we think it is very important to look at children. And not only at the sample, on the label or the diagnosis that a child has received. But to see it as information. Yes, that is very beautiful. And that is also the beautiful way we look at child and systemic work. What does the child show and what does the child say. And that you, with the therapy that we, or the coaching that we teach here, look at what is under it, what is behind it. And that is beautiful that we can look at child and systemic work with that. Because the child does not stop, like we often say, who stops the behaviour. But it does not stop because it likes to stop, but because it has a message. And so we then say, the detective is to find and trace what stops. And what it shows, what it mirrors. And so it actually ends up with all other diseases or symptoms that we have already mentioned. That is our conviction. It is a mirror, you want to show something. And that of course also applies to all the things that children do and where they get a label. Exactly, and then of course it is interesting to see who stops the behaviour the most. Or who stops it really, stops it at school, or stops it at a certain age. That is of course also very interesting. And also often where the message is intended. The one who is most irritated is mostly the message indeed. And that also applies to pupils. Yes, that is also possible. And it can also be that a child, for example, only goes to the father, or only goes to his mother, or an elderly person, so that is also all interesting information. Yes, I also recently had a question about students who used to say, Our child has angry children, so to speak. And we can actually handle it perfectly, with the family, with all of them. But a man who does not pull at all, who is really looking at who the message is for, for the father, then. So then there is something to look at with those genes. And that is possible to take the genes in with a lens that he is also allowed to look at. Yes, exactly. And of course we already had it in an earlier podcast with Nijverkinderen, about how important it is to look at what the child would like, instead of the one who stops it. So I think it's just right to dive into the labels and the diagnosis of ADHD. Yes, that is often mentioned, but when you look back, it also often has to do with high sensitivity, and high sensitivity, because those children are so sensitive, and they actually feel the whole situation. So they feel how mother feels, or how father feels, and they often speak. And that must also be lost somewhere, and then that hyperactivity comes, or not being able to concentrate, because you are actually full as a sponsor with the emotions of others, and indeed. Yes, because that is often used in ADHD, or ADD. The H is used less, the hyper, the H of the hyper. But is it about not being able to focus, dreaming a little away, and being autistic? So that is often what happens in the brain. I think that Gabor Maté always explains that there are a lot of fast ways through your brain, or in any case in the wrong way. There is chaos, so then there is actually the traffic regulation. So if you fall asleep in the traffic regulation, then chaos comes, and that's a bit like an ADD, or an ADD, if someone has experienced that. So he actually needs a bit of order again, and a traffic regulation that is sober, that can control traffic. Yes, and that has to do with the early phases of making progress very often. But you also see the behaviour of children who don't have that in the first few years. And then it is also often said, well, you have to test it once in a while on ADD. We have just changed a situation. I just made up with my son recently that you just can't concentrate on school anymore, and no longer sit still. And he was able to do that in the first two years of school, so the second two years of primary school in Germany, then not. And now he is in the new school, so he can concentrate well again. So it really had to do with the environment, and not be able to tell what is going on there. And if there is a chaos about that class, and then the adults have already passed away, giving the child the guilt, then the child just feels something is not right, and I just don't want to be here, I want to leave here. Yes, absolutely. Yes, and then they really feel this kind of insecurity. Yes, yes, yes. And it is also that it even goes together with other complaints, that children just use their life to not have to go there. And yes, it is really very bizarre where it all can lead to a behaviour. No longer can you concentrate at home on things you liked actually, because they are also done at school somewhere, reading or something like that, which is usually welcome. But then it is not ADHD, it is just behaviour. And for all people with ADHD, I would say, well, it is good news. You can also learn to read and use it, it is just a high sensitivity, that is really good. Yes, yes, and it often arises that then already in the, yes, if we look at it like that, but you are also going to explain it with systems, but in the pregnancy already, and that is already very decisive for how a child is dealing with those problems. Because it was very unsafe in the pregnancy, there was a lot of stress, or there were just a lot of issues with the parents, they have all picked up, but also just after the birth, or there have been complications in the birth, and of course he also often had it in the podcast, but that is really important, in that there are such complaints can arise, but that is really on that high sensitivity. Yes, and are you just after the birth available as parents, or did the children feel that they had available parents, or were they actually not, they thought they were, but emotionally maybe not available as parents, because those hearts, and it is mainly about ADHD, but also autism, they develop for the greater part after that birth, in those first few years of life, so otherwise it is very important to feel safety, but also really feel, and that they can really make contact with the parents through their eyes, and feel safety there, because you often hear people say, yes, my mother or father does say that I care about you or I see you, but it is not felt, and that is often what goes wrong, yes. And that has a big influence on the development of the little heart, which then, well, how do you say that, just the traffic controller, which develops then just that good, and that is what we then later really ADHD call, which is also physically acceptable, is that in the heart something does not work as well as with people who have had that, yes, so that is the big difference from, say, a biological perspective or a neurological perspective, and for the rest it all has to do with emotions that are not tangible, actually, and with stress that a child has experienced, and that is then the link to systemic work, this is a systemic issue, because it goes very often about the relationship of the parents, where the stress comes from, well, you are or, and only the parents who are stressed experience that they are alone, or you are in the stress because you have a relationship problem, that is super often forecoming, or you have other stressors around your work and around your own parents, but it does not start with the child who is stressed, so it starts somewhere in the lower or even further above, of course, yes, and so we also see in the systemic work that it comes very often, I would say at least 90% of the cases, that the children who show the ADHD behaviour just stand between the parents, we call that triangulation in the systemic work, and that means, actually, you are the blind guide between your parents, you are in between for the harmony, you are very harmonious, well, I have a brother who has also taken this place, he has a very harmonious relationship, and he also has the ADHD behaviour that he portrayed and cannot focus even as an adult, because he has just had a completely different childhood than my older brother and I, for example, in that phase there was more stress, and he is the one who is therefore sensitive to the harmony, and those children pick that up and make it visible, yes, actually very sad, if you look at it like that, yes, and so you see that you then come from the same family, but still have a different feeling that it was a different feeling, or that you have different parents. Yes, yes, that's what Gabomanteo also writes, that all children actually have different parents, because the situation is never the same, then the elderly may still feel a lot of love and relaxation, the parents may still be super good with each other, and three years later a second child comes, and there is stress because they have built a house with a light, and at the third child they are ready for the divorce, well, those three children have very different parents, and that is why they also show very different things, and they have very different conditions for their development and for their whole life. It's pretty unfair if you keep it that way. Yes, yes. Stella, you are an elder, and you hear this information for the first time, you become aware of it for the first time, is there anything else that you could do for your child who shows this behaviour, besides, for example, a nice session, or an exhibition, are there, for example, things that the child can tell, or that you can do at home, so that you don't have to show this behaviour anymore for the child? Yes, and what I often see is that adults who have missed something, that they have missed recognition and understanding in their sensitivity, so what I think, what adults can do, is really see the child, and feel that they really make a connection with the child, really look at the child, or make a connection with the heart, but really see the child, not only in how he does it, or what he doesn't do well, but actually make a connection from within, that's what they're looking for. And then also learn to let go and distinguish what is from them and what is not from them. Because if there is stress experienced with a child and you see that, then the first step is to ask yourself, I see that you can't concentrate, has there been something, have you taken care, have you done something, what happened at school, what happened today, that they can think about it, what was it actually, then they often tell it already, and I'm just going to go outside with my children, in front of the door, and then they have to clean themselves up, and make a deep breath and let go of everything, and then it goes better. So it can be very simple, that they learn to make a distinction, what is really from me, what did I pick up, and from a systemic perspective, I would always say, "Send the child to responsibility and make it visible, send it out of the relationship conflict." You can say for example, "God, it's nice that you make it visible that there is tension, but this tension is from us, you can stay out of our relationship, you have nothing to do with our relationship problems, it's super annoying that you feel that too, but I am for you as a mother, and I am for you as a father." That's what you can do, and if you take responsibility for this conflict, then don't just say it, otherwise the child will keep showing it, it is very unsafe for children to feel that the parents have a relationship with each other. Yes, and maybe also look at yourself, if you see that the child shows something, that you can also look, "Okay, what does that say about me, or do I recognize that from when I was little?" Because that's what you often see, that the parents have felt the same way as a little child, so that you can look at your own pieces, and then you help the child again. It's not that the child doesn't have to change, but that you, as a mother or as a father, can look at that. Yes, that's fine, even if the parents can take responsibility for it. That's fine. And above all, the look of yourself, the child that shows it. And how does it work, because we have talked a lot about ADD, how does it all work for the diagnosis of autism? Well, autism is an approach from a systemic perspective. Well, yes, it is an approach. It is a sample, let's say, a label, of people who are looking for the wish-child. And a wish-child may be a nice sounding word, but that means that you are not actually free to come to the place where you were born, but you are wished, or you come for the wish of your parents. So your parents would like to be a mother or father, or they would like to be children, and there are certain conditions for that. You may have to become a boy, or a girl, or you have to do it right. You have to make the wish of your parents true. You may also have to become a father, as your grandfather was, or something like that. So there are conditions for that. And then you often see children who are in the autism spectrum. Well, I say spectrum, because it is about all possible forms of autism. So not only the autistic people, you know, the classic image of people who are almost unable to speak, and who have always been in high spirits, and who have been doing that all day, and so on. It is also about people who may have a bit of an autistic behaviour. And often there is the difference in the form of the wish that is on the spot, how big that is. For example, I know people who had to become a boy, who had to become a girl. And then you see the lighter forms of the wish. Because there are conditions on the spot. But if someone really has to make a big issue of the wish, then it is also often caused by the autistic behaviour. That is at least what we observe. So in practice with clients or people who are sitting there. And it is also interesting for people who may have a slightly autistic behaviour when they recognize themselves, you have to approach them once for yourself. You are on my spot in certain conditions. And if I answer that for myself, then I can say yes. Well, my mother would have liked to give support and support, a help. And she hoped to have a daughter who would become a sort of measure. So that is at my place. And I can sometimes also react super-autistic. Not in the label form, so to speak, that I have a loss of it. But if you look at the place that you get in a family, which is systemic, then it is very nice to also let go of old hardships and old prejudices. And to say, no, that's where I kick myself out. Because that's just a decision that you can give yourself. A freedom to decide that you give yourself a gift. No, I kick myself out of these prejudices. My life, my place is for me. And I take that. And what my parents have given me, I take that. And prejudices I leave with them. So we can always grow up with that. Yes, yes, I see that too, in my surroundings indeed. Someone who maybe should have been different. According to her mother. And therefore her whole life actually already against obscenity. Or against obscenity is not the right word. But yes, not to the expected level of how mother had actually seen it. And now she has her own children. I see that she really wants to do it. As she wanted to be raised herself. So an extra attention. Or very caring and very protective. It's almost a warning. Yes, and then you see that the children indeed also show their behaviour. What is actually worse than mother. It is also increasingly worse in the generations. Until it is really recognized or seen. Yes, it can also be a form of patronisation. What has started somewhere much earlier. It is not between parents and children. But between the overgrown parents and the grown-up parents where it has started. The ancestors. Because I see for example also a mother's family. That there has always been just as many boys born until finally a girl came. There is also something in man and woman. The light artistic behaviour of Asperger and such. What does it come before in this family? Special, right? I keep finding it very special. How people make it visible in sickness and behaviour. And we also see a rise in ADHD and autism since then. Children with handicaps can no longer be born. Because it is the same thing. For example Down syndrome or something like that. Often those children who are not born anymore. Unfortunately, because they are cute. And very beautiful lessons they bring with them. But if it can not be visible in that way by handicaps. Then it comes through a handicap in behavior. Which you can not see in the pregnancy. That is very smart actually of the system. Because then I have to make it so that it can no longer be measured during pregnancy. Like an echo in pregnancy or something. And what you just said about gender a little bit. You had to tell a boy or a girl. That is interesting. And a few people who know the autistic. Who are used to being with autism. And who also participate in that. And who worsen with that indeed. I am a boy, I am a girl or something like that. Self. Yes. I did not have a daughter who had to be a boy. But she herself has to talk about her own sexuality. And then I do not know how it is. Or there was a worsen of the elderly. Or if they liked it, I wish it was different. I do not know that. But while that autism is there. That you see the elderly in that. That they worsen with it. That you see that worsen in one generation. And if you look further up. That maybe someone has been there before. Who may not have been able to survive their sexuality. Or who had a desire for such a place. A preface. A great preface. And who could not let go of that. Who could not fight against that. Or could not get rid of that. Well then there will be a generation later. Or two generations later a whole bunch of children will show that. Until it is recognized. We see that systemically. Yes. Yes. Interesting. It remains to be found beautiful. That this is how the fate of our forefathers is going to be. Actually. And it's sad for the children. But if we look here consciously. And try to translate and read. Then we can learn so much about the fate of our forefathers. And their honour by doing everything themselves. And not to go into the process. And to be grateful for that they have lived through it. And that we can be free. That is also often what we use as a whole mind. You honor me if you take your freedom and you are not going to take it. And that is often what they also want. What do you want to be free of? Without knowing how strict they were in the system. But that is what your client often wishes. Yes. Yes. I think these children who show this behaviour. And above all the strict forms. Above all so strict. That they are the burden for the family. For the parents. The burden. That the rest has been pushed through. And that makes it visible. I think it's so strict. And so you turn those children around. You can honor it. And say thank you very much. That you have carried this. But it doesn't have to be anymore. How nice is that for those children. That they are recognized and recognized in it. That they don't have to do it anymore. But I think these children. For example what you just said. That you often don't go out of pregnancy anymore. And that you are born again. I think that too. Such a brave child. To go on like that. To live like that. Yes, they are also brave children. Really brave children. I know that. What is also very nice is that they really feel. That they are not from them. And that they don't understand. Why parents don't understand what they mean. It's actually very strict. That you also feel so incomprehensible. So that's the most important thing. Maybe as a message for parents. Try to move yourself in the situation of your child. And try to imagine. It's actually not about you. What you are here in the mirror. How would you feel? And how would you want that? An parent going around with you. But it's good to just go inside. I'm going to give it to those people who don't recognize themselves. In that wish piece. Because of course you often see that with wish children. Who have really come through IVF or something. That there is a pretext. We have paid a lot of money for you. You have to do it right. We have heard that. Sounds bad. But it has come before. But that people don't recognize. That it often has to do with old themes. About rules and limits. Because ADHD children. I'll just call them very short. Go over limits. And autism spectrum children. They need a lot of rules. From themselves. They need the structures. So it can only be that there was a pre-older. Who was completely limited. By the structures of the society. In which it could not break out. So it's always meaningful. To look at it systemically. Yes, that's nice. Yes, just study. What it was that played. And these are indeed a number of things. That could be. And what you often see is that. In this life you choose parents. Who also have the limits. Who find it very difficult to set limits. Because they are very limited themselves. That they then say yes everywhere. And then the children go so far. And throw a lot of football in the TV. Or a vase or so. So they still have to go far. And then we call it unsupportable behaviour. While actually. The one that is unsupportable. Is the limitlessness of the parents. And an important subject. If you look at ADD or ADD. Of course it is the use of medication. Like Ritalin. Now I know Ritalin. From my studies. Wherein I had med students. Who in three nights. And wrote a script. On Ritalin. And who had some problems in the background. And now I know. That children who use Ritalin. Can have problems. Of a feeling of being themselves. Of a flat feeling. How do you look at the use of Ritalin. And are there still. Alternative events. For children who are suffering from it. Yes. Sometimes it's also. A helping hand. If you like it. And it is sometimes. Advised by teachers. That they only want. That children use it. And that they only get in the classroom. For example. For a while. And sometimes you also hear. That they only use it at school. For example. Ritalin. Or concerta. Of course you have other things. And in the weekend. Not. But I do notice. I hear a story. When children get older. That they don't want it. That they don't like it. That they don't like it. Because they feel. Oh yeah. I'm no longer myself. What you just mentioned. So that is. Yes. Too bad. That happens. But there are also. Of course solutions. That you can use. You have the means. From Bach's blues. For example. So different. Combination is there. But also blues. Remedies. Or the Green Linda. Has there also means for it. And another known. Is. Simmerman. A brand. Which is also helpful. Instead of. A natural alternative. Actually. For Ritalin. Yes. That is also. No. I find it quite annoying. That we therefore expect. Of children. To be able to function. In our school system. Where we are still. Since the last 150 years. Still behind. A table. Have to sit. And have to listen. To the teacher. For a moment. Very black and white. I know. That there are a lot of teachers. Who do not work like that. So you feel. If you are not attacked. If you are a teacher. But there are of course. Still a lot of places. What it is. And of children. So. In a. Sort. Course. Should sit. Should fit. And so. Not himself. Can be. Not be able to show. What they feel. And if we then give Ritalin. Then they fit. But then they lose. The contact with themselves. And that is the consequence. And we also. Yes. Information. Read. Of. Researchers who have done. In America. About. The later follow-up. Of Ritalin. Whereby. Assured. That. A lot of people. A. Large number of people. Who have a chance. In their youth. That he later. Depressions. Have received. So. Actually. Is that a bit. Yes. A course. I don't want to. I don't want to. Ritalin. Then I have to. With the behavior. Yes. Live. And maybe not. In the class. And in the expectations. Of the. Environment. And if I do it. Then. Then I come to a secret. Right. Where I later. Follow-up. So our vision. On Ritalin. To answer. Is actually. Look at the behavior. And if the behavior. Can be recognized. Then. Has the environment. Suddenly. Can integrate. Then. Then it can be. And gets the attention. That it needs. And. Maybe. A special. A suitable environment. For. Why not. Why should everyone. In our way. Of learning. There are also other. Forms. Than. Washed words. I think. Yes. Too well prepared. To look at the alternatives. And a bit of effort. Yes. That we also. Must. Forget. That. Is it actually. If in the label. Yes. Of course it is also a label. But. That it is also very creative people. Are with a very creative brain. And that they are very. Yes. Free thinkers. In any case. Can do a lot. Have a lot of knowledge. Especially. Of specific subjects. If they are. Interested. And if they. Find something interesting. Then they go for it. And then they can. All. Deep. Only. If it's not interesting. Then. What else. But. Yes. That's nice. To get me in. I had the last interesting conversation with my brother. And of course I also have such old convictions. From. My. Fooding. And I think that everyone should know. And in any case. Can read and write. And he. Said to me. Why do you? Why should everyone be able to read and write? Because. He knows an author. My wife. He makes children books. And he thinks. Fantastic stories. And he makes. The. Plates for it. And. He said to me. Heartstick dyslexia. He can't just get it on paper. But he has a heart. Good. Lecture. He's going to write it all up for her. Why should she be able to read and write? Why can't we. Our talents. At all. Yes. Let grow. And let bloom. And. Yes. We don't have to be able to do anything. So that's maybe the message. Support there. Where the child is. And. Instead of focusing on what someone can't do. Yes. And never be able to finish it all. So. Yes. Everyone can actually find their own niche. Therein. Beautiful. Yes. Well, thank you. It's a conversation. And thank you to the listeners. And until next time. On a fun subject. Where you would like to know more. Let us know. Until next time.