Killer Pretends He “Forgot” What He Did: The Case of Jackie Vandagriff

Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of True Crime with Kendall, right? Thank you so much for joining me today and if you're new to the show then welcome. I'm happy to have you here. So guys, today we're getting into a case that is, I feel like I say this pretty much every week. It's frustrating. It's frustrating for a different reason than it's normally frustrating in my opinion. And that's because I still just cannot wrap my head around why this happened. There was a motive established by the prosecution and for the most part, I agree with it. I just still wish I could understand more. It just makes no sense and I guess sometimes with some killers, there is no way to make sense of the things that they do that sometimes they are just pure evil and come out of deep rooted insecurities and just being a total freak if I'm being honest. And today we're going to be talking about the murder of 24 year old Jackie Vandegriff who clearly had her whole life ahead of her and she just sounded like a fantastic human but she is not the only victim in this case. There was also another young woman at the time her name is Caitlin Mathis and I think she very easily could have ended up in Jackie's shoes. I'm just so grateful that she wasn't, but it's devastating to think that the same can't be said for Jackie. It's a confusing one and I feel that there's a good chance you're going to be left just feeling a little bit confused the way I am where it still just doesn't make any sense. And with that, let's go ahead and get into this case. And as always, I want to start out by talking to you about today's victim, Jackie Vandegriff, who like I mentioned was so, so young when this occurred. Now her full name was Jacqueline Ray Vandegriff but like many Jacqueline, she liked to go by Jackie. She was born on March 4, 1992 in Carrollton, Texas to her parents Sonia and Ricky and she also had one sister whose name is Jenny. And when she was growing up, Jackie, of course, had lots of interests. And one of her first interests when she was a kid was the show Thomas the Tank Engine. I was born the year after Jackie and this show was so big when we were growing up and she loved it so much that she would even reenact different scenes on her own little train set. And then like a lot of toddlers, Jackie's next interest was gymnastics. And she has been described as having been a super high energy kid. And apparently she was doing some results before she could even walk. And eventually she managed to compete at level five in state competitions. Then when she was in middle school, she and her family moved just up the road to Frisco where she eventually went on to attend Wakeland high school. And I couldn't quite pinpoint where this began. I don't know if her family was this way or she was just always this way, but Jackie was a super patriotic person. And of course, she loved celebrating the 4th of July, Memorial Day, Veterans Day. And every year she would root for the Navy in the Army versus Navy football game. And when I was looking more into her background trying to get more of an idea of who she was, I looked at her Facebook account and I found one of her most recent posts. It was from July 4th of 2016 and she wrote, "It makes me sad that this is the last independence day we get to celebrate with Obama as our president." And you know a girl I was feeling the exact same on July 4th 2016, but anyway, I could also see from her Facebook that she worked as a cocktail waitress at San Buka 360 and that she got her a statistician's license from Paul Mitchell to school in Dallas. And I also learned that Jackie was very passionate about health and wellness and her loved ones say that she cared a lot about people caring about themselves and wanting to see everyone thrive. And that actually fueled her desire to go to school to study nutrition and food science with an emphasis and wellness, of course. And so Jackie started attending Texas Women's University in Denton, Texas and by the fall of 2016, she was 24 years old and entering her junior year. And it seems like she had to make this little about me style introduction video for one of her classes, which I am assuming probably was very uncomfortable, very awkward to film. I would have absolutely hated that. I know I am on camera all the time now, but back then, especially that would have just been too much. I would have had to take a million takes. But as soon as I saw this, I knew I wanted to share because it really just shows you a glimpse of Jackie. And it's so nice to hear her voice. Hello everyone. My name is Jacqueline Bandagriff, but friends call me Jackie. I am originally from the colony Texas, but I moved to Frisco when I was in elementary school and I graduated from Wakeland High School. I am currently a junior here at Texas Women's University and my major is nutrition with an emphasis in wellness. As far as my career aspirations go, right now, I'm most interested in corporate wellness. I think more and more companies are starting to recognize the need to provide health resources for their employees. So I think right now, that's where I'm wanting to go with my career. In this class, I hope to learn more about how to use the resources available to reach different individuals and to communicate effectively with the amount of diversity that we have in our community, as well as just building on my overall communications goals. So yeah, I'm guessing that was for some type of online class and yeah, it's weird to watch videos like that because it feels on one hand, it's really nice to have someone's memory and the way they speak and talk about themselves preserved in that way, but it's also just very eerie. And on that same note, I did some more digging and I found her YouTube channel and she is one video uploaded and it's an ultra beauty haul, which I couldn't help but relate to that. That's how I started on YouTube was making like beauty hauls and little makeup videos and stuff. And like I remember filming some of my earliest videos, they were very similar to how she did this one. Hi, everyone. So this is my first video and I am sitting on my floor. I was trying to decide if it would be more weird to do this sitting on my floor or standing in my bathroom and I decided to go with this because this way I didn't have to clean my bathroom and I think the lighting is a little bit better in here. So I'm really excited to be doing my first video. I've been meaning to start incorporating social media into what I do for work and my job and I haven't really been good about that, but I think today would be a good time to start because I just did a little haul at all time. So let's start with my favorite product of all time is the Serivate Femin facial cleanser and the PM facial moisturizing lotion. I've been using these for like seven years. If I've ever helped you with skin care stuff, I probably told you to buy them just because I've tried so many other things and I always go back to them and they work really well. They work for a lot of different skin types. You could probably find some kind of face wash that would turn me into Beyoncé or something and I would still be like, "No, I'll take the Serivate." On time much I like it. I think that is it. Thank you for watching. This is the first of hopefully many videos. So if you have any ideas, anything you want to hear about, any questions that you would like me to address or just any comments, leave a comment below or send me a message on Twitter if you're watching this. You've probably followed me on Twitter, so just send me a message and thank you for watching. Yeah. Again, just tough to watch. It's just, she's so innocent and yeah, I don't know what to say. I mean, I don't often get to find clips like that and I feel very thankful when I do and I get that glimpse. But then yeah, there's something about it that's just really, really tough and uncomfortable to watch. So what makes it even more eerie to watch is that video was uploaded in February of 2016 and it's really hard to imagine, but in just a few short months after she uploaded that, Jackie would be gone. So that brings me to September 14th, 2016 and it was just before 6.30am when a 911 call was placed from Great Blind Lake to report a fire at Acorn Woods Park. And when first responders arrived, they were absolutely shocked to see that this was so much more than a fire because they're inside of a burnt up blue kitty pool was the dismembered remains of a body and the damage from this fire was so severe that at first they weren't even able to tell basic characteristics about the victims such as their age or even their gender, but fingerprint testing was completed the following day and it confirmed that these were the remains of 24 year old Jackie van der Griff. And when I tell you guys that not a single soul in her life could have seen this coming, I'm not joking. She didn't have some angry, scorned ex-boyfriend or really any problem with any of her friends. No enemies. This was completely out of the blue. Her friends and family just could not even begin to conceptualize who would have done something like this to Jackie, but investigators on the other hand, it thankfully did not take long for them to identify a suspect and that wasn't based on physical evidence. Because as far as the crime scene was concerned, there was actually very little evidence to point to who could have been responsible. Besides the 911 caller saying that they saw a guy standing over the fire who also drove away in a white-colored SUV? That was about the extent of their knowledge. However, when they traced Jackie's last known steps, someone stood out right away. Of course, one of the things that the investigators did right away was try to make a timeline leading up to her death and try to get a sense of her last known movements and they were able to track her down to a bar on the night of September 13th the night before. And this bar is called Fry Street Public House and she was there around 8 p.m. or so and she was actually there looking for a job but through surveillance video. Investigators could see that she ended up sitting at the bar and striking up a conversation with this older man who at times can be seen touching her arm and flirting with her. And when they cross reference to her social media, they saw that about 45 minutes later she tweeted, "I'm glad I decided to get off Tinder and walked to a bar." Which may an investigators think, "Hmm, maybe this tweet could be about the guy that we saw her at the bar with." Maybe this dude is the one who was responsible but it didn't stop there. So then around 9 p.m. Jackie and this guy and also the bar tender can be seen leaving Fry Street Public House and heading towards another bar. And they ended up just down the street at a place called Shots and Brew where once again, Han Jackie can be seen on surveillance. And they're actually seen speaking with a group of women and at one point this guy can be seen handing one of the women his business card. And so they track her down and once they did, they were able to identify him based on this card. And it turns out this guy was 30-year-old fitness instructor Charles Bryant. And that second bar actually wasn't the last time that they were seen together because after they left Shots and Brew, which was around 9.45 p.m., Jackie could be seen in the passenger seat of his car outside of a convenience store, which Charles was seen entering alone. He was raining, so investigators believe that he likely had offered her a ride. But after this, the next time Jackie was seen was early that next morning when first responders put out the fire that engulfed her body. And what is so creepy is that someone tweeted something from her account after she was killed because it was posted on September 15th. So obviously, it couldn't have been her and it said, never knew I could feel like this. And I'm not gonna spend much time speculating on what this means because it obviously wasn't written by Jackie, it was written by her killer. And I don't know what they meant by it or do I really care. So clearly, it doesn't take a genius here to put the pieces together and realize that Charles is likely the one responsible for Jackie's murder. And so investigators start looking into him, realizing that he's probably their guy. And when they initially look into him, like right off the bat, they realize that he has a restraining order against him and not from Jackie, from someone else, another college student named Caitlin Mathis. And the story of what happened to Caitlin is so closely linked to what happened to Jackie that I need to rewind back in time a little bit and fill you in on Caitlin's experience with Charles in order for you to understand how things happened with Jackie. And we don't have to go far back in time for that. Only three months at the time, Caitlin was 18 years old. And she was working at a restaurant as a server before starting college at the University of North Texas in the fall. And that's where she ended up meeting then 29 year old Charles Bryant. And it was actually the day after she graduated high school that this creep started making moves on her. And of course, he made himself out to be this great guy. He was a bartender at the Urban Cowboy, which is a gay bar in Fort Worth. And he was also a personal trainer and just take a look at this douchebag's mirror selfies. Oh my God, clearly he thought very highly of himself. And I'd like you to notice how every selfie he's standing like the same way. He's got his eyebrows slightly arched or majorly arched. And he always is doing some slight duck lip action. He really likes to push the lips up. I think he's going for like tough meets seductive. I don't know. But I hate everything about his selfies. And like we talked about recently, maybe last week or the week before I can't remember exactly, the age gap thing is really tough. 'Cause I know in some relationships it's completely fine. And some people function very well in age gap relationships. And it's not creepy, but in this case, I think it is. I think it's very disturbing when a 29 year old man is going after a woman who just turned 18 and just graduated high school as in just graduate like the day before. And you wanna go after her? Why is that? And listen, I totally get where Caitlin's coming from. At age 18, it would be very enticing when an older man takes interest in you at a bar. I don't blame her at all. Of course, I don't blame her. I blame him. But in fact, actually applaud Caitlin because after just a couple of weeks, she already started to see the red flags pop up about Charles and things did not last long with him at all. She could tell very quickly that he was super, super possessive. I think very insecure as well. And also just a narcissistic loser. He clearly thought the world of himself. And I know I also just said that he was insecure a moment ago. And I really think those two things can exist at the same time. I think people who portray themselves as obsessed with themselves who come across that way have deep rooted insecurities. And I think that is exactly who Charles is. And one of the main things that gives that away about him 'cause obviously I've never met the dude myself. Thank God. But he tried to pull this whole, you'll never find anyone better than me, kind of bullshit. And that's something that only the most insecure of men managed to find the audacity to say. So long story short, thankfully, in August of 2016, Caitlin sees right through this idiot, realizes she wants nothing to do with him that he's possessive and freaking all the things. And she ends up breaking up with him. And I know her mom had to have been happy about that. And speaking of her mom, she actually said that when Caitlin first showed her a picture of Charles, she thought that he looked evil. And it wasn't just because this nearly 30-year-old man was pursuing her 18-year-old daughter. I mean, that was definitely part of it, but it was also because to her, there was just something about the way that he looked that gave her a deep, chilling feeling in her bones. And I totally see what she's talking about. I mean, just look at those eyes. Something just screams not right. So clearly, her mom was not for this relationship at all, but she also knew that her youngest daughter was going to do what she wanted and wanted to be supportive. And she was an adult, so really, she can't force her to end things with him. But like I said, Caitlin quickly realized that he was a giant loser and ended things with him. (upbeat music) And I'm sure you'll be absolutely shocked to hear that this big, strong, insecure little bitch in his heart was very upset and didn't want to accept that Caitlin was ending things with him could not accept it. In fact, just one day after she dumped his sorry ass, he shows up at her mom's house and is begging her to take him back. And he made her a bunch of promises that he was going to change. He was going to be the best version of himself, blah, blah, blah, the usual bullshit. And at first, it worked because sometimes it does, but it didn't work for very long because Caitlin was only back together with him for like a week, literally a week. And she realized that he still sucks and dumped him. And this time when she dumped him, she told him, leave me alone. I am done with you. There's no more second chances. Get the fuck away from me. She was completely over it. And he definitely did not do that because in the early morning hours of August 24th, campus police ended up pulling him over because they thought that he may have been drunk driving. But he actually was below the legal limit so they had to let him go. He had some traffic violations that he hadn't paid yet, but it wasn't enough for anything to really be done about it. So he was allowed to leave. However, later that day, of course, Charles Loserass was back on campus. And this time he went straight for Caitlin's dorm room, which of course totally freaked her out because she never even told him which dorm she lived in Let Alone, which room was hers. And of course, Charles tried to make himself seem like less of a stalker by saying that, well, your name was written on the door. Her name was on the door. That's how I figured out where she lived. Okay, dude, what? So you went through every single room in the dorm until you found hers. And did you do that for every single dorm building? No, I think the most likely scenario is you were watching her. You were stalking her and following her. You figured out where she lived. That is pure speculation hasn't been confirmed, but I wouldn't put it past Charles. Okay, he's a freaky bitch. Of course, he's going to be doing things like that. But anyway, he shows a better door and sources say that the two of them had a conversation in the common area. And I don't know how long of a conversation this was, but apparently they spoke for a little bit. And during that interaction, he tried to kiss her and she pushed him away. And even still, he begged her to take him back. But she wasn't falling for his bullshit, so she told him to leave and never come back. And Caitlin's very smart. And when he finally did leave, she decided to go ahead and report this to the campus police. She basically explained to the Lieutenant Polk what was going on, which was what I've already told you. That she has this creepy ex-boyfriend who treated her really terribly. And now she was worried because he was showing up unannounced at her dorm. and huge shout out to this lieutenant, he is. awesome because he not only believed Caitlyn but he vowed to make sure that she was protected and he did his best. And I know just from cases that I've covered and my own lived experiences that a lot of campuses don't take things like this very seriously until there's repeated offenses or they feel like they have no other choice but they moved quickly. Lieutenant Polk I think is a hero because immediately he issued a no-trust passing order on Charles which banned him from even coming on the UNT campus. But would you be shocked if I told you that that did not stop Charles because of course it didn't. And just a week later his ass was back. On August 31st, this time he showed up at her new job at Buffalo Wild Wings. He went inside, handed her a note and then proceeded to ask someone at the bar if he could be sat in her section. And poor Caitlyn, she is so freaked out by this and she told him to leave but apparently he wouldn't and she even found out from a coworker that he had come in the day before and was asking about her. Which is so so so violating and creepy and just I think proves what I was saying earlier that he was stalking her and figured out where she lived because she definitely didn't tell him that she worked at Buffalo Wild Wings but he knew that she would be there that she'd just started working there and he knew what day she wouldn't be there so that he could go in and ask people about I don't know what he wanted to know when her shift was when she was going to be there. I don't who knows and so Caitlyn is totally stuck here. I mean she just started this new job and she tells her manager about the situation and that he was coming in and stalking her and just told him the whole story and the manager said that there was nothing they could do about it which there probably wasn't at that point in time because she didn't have a restraining order or a police report filed all that they had was the no trespass order on the campus. But this just shows you how truly scared Caitlyn was of Charles. She ended up quitting that job even though she had just started. She actually decided to go back to the restaurant that she was a server at earlier that summer instead and her mom even tried to convince her to move back home. But understandably Caitlyn wanted to stay on campus. I totally get that her experience shouldn't be ruined by Charles. That's so unfair. Caitlyn also did contact the police again to let them know that he had showed up at Buffalo Wild Wings and they ended up reaching out to him and straight up said that if he doesn't leave her alone they were going to arrest him. But Charles can't do that. He can't control himself. He is a stalker in his soul. So what does he do? He shows up again at her dorm room. This time it was a week later on September 6 which would have been their three-month anniversary. And let that just sink in for a second. It hasn't been that long at all. And he is this obsessed with her. They didn't even make it three months. But anyway this time when he shows up at the door she looks out the people. She sees his ugly ass and this time she's really afraid. Okay, there have been repeated instances. She's worried for her safety. So she goes and hides in her closet. And then in the closet she calls the police and she's whispering because she's worried that if he hears her voice that he will know she's inside and just break in or something. Either way though he knew that she was inside and I don't know if that was because he was watching her or if he just maybe he heard her or he assumed that she was in there. But he ended up saying something through the door along the lines of Caitlyn. I know you're in there just open up. I have something for you. Now eventually he did leave. Thankfully it didn't get worse than that. But when she went to the door she saw that he'd left flowers. Which I guess was something that he did a lot whenever he did something wrong. Of course. And he also left her a two-page letter. And I don't know what he had to say in that letter. But if I were to take a guess I'm sure it was some half-ast apology paired with some desperate plea to win her back and say how he can't live without her and all the typical bullshit. But Charles was not getting her back. That was not going to happen. The only thing that he was going to get it was arrested. Because the police showed up 10 minutes later and found him outside the dorm area in his running clothes. Of course he's not wearing a shirt. And they were able to arrest him for trespassing. Unfortunately though he was able to postpone and got released within just a few hours. Like I said Caitlyn is smart. And she knew that after he was arrested that wasn't going to be enough for him to actually stop trying to contact her. So she took all the precautions she could at that point in time and blocked his phone number, blocked his email, blocked all social media, blocked any way that he could contact her. But even after being arrested and being blocked on everything that wasn't enough for Charles he doesn't have the capacity to stop. He is a stalker. So he makes up a new email and emails her as soon as he's posted bail. And I don't have the full email and I'm honestly glad that I don't have to read that nonsense. But here is part of it that tells you everything you need to know about it. It says dot dot dot here I am heartbroken and with a criminal record for bringing the girl I love flowers. I don't know what type of melodramatic, sappy movie he was acting in his head but yeah he was the only character in that story. Caitlyn on the other hand as soon as she gets this email she's calling the police again. And she's feeling very threatened by his ridiculous unhinged behavior. And when lieutenant Polk heard about this he wasn't having it. He stepped things right on up and right away he helped Caitlyn get an emergency protective order and since Charles was still trying to get in contact with her he and other officers ended up going to his house on the 7th and they arrested him for stalking. And lieutenant Polk says that he told Charles that he was not going to stop arresting him and he planned to use every single one of his communications with Caitlyn to keep his ass behind bars but unfortunately he posted bond again and was free again. And following his arrest Caitlyn said that his friends Charles his friends he had friends apparently this guy and they're messaging her telling her to drop the charges because of course I mean according to Caitlyn she thinks that he fed them a bunch of bullshit saying that she was the problem probably along the lines of you know she's crazy she might psycho x something like this ruining my life and his friends fall for it and start coming to his defense. But there was no world where Caitlyn was going to drop these charges. So then like before things settle down for about a week. But back to september 14th that is the day that Jackie Vandagriff's body was found and her body was found in an area which not so coincidentally Caitlyn and Charles visited several times together while they were dating. It also didn't appear to be much of a coincidence that Charles was at fry street public house the night before. Apparently while they were still together Caitlyn told him this was an area she was excited to go meet new students. And all these were connections that the homicide investigators were able to make once they identified him as their suspect. And after they took a look at his record and saw that he had recently been arrested for stalking and that he had a restraining order against him. They got in contact with Lieutenant Jeremy Polk who happened to be in the middle of a race when he got the call. And he's so dedicated to his work that he stopped racing. He sat down on a bench mid run and was speechless when he found out that Charles was now at the center of a murder investigation. And I was so blown away by Lieutenant Polk. I mean talk about someone who truly loves what they do, who truly cares about the work they do because when he heard about the murder, he immediately calls Caitlyn just to ask if she was safe. And of course he wasn't able to say why he was calling, but Caitlyn already knew about the murder. She had heard about it. And she did say that she was safe. And thankfully Caitlyn was safe. Very happy to say that. But he didn't want to take any chances. And when he got the call that Charles might be their guy, he of course wanted to help bring him in. And it turns out that very morning after he had done what I'm about to go over. Mr. I can't take a hint sent Caitlyn not one, not two, but five emails. And one of those emails included this picture of a tree from grapevine lake with text on it that reads, "First kiss under this tree once upon a time XXO." And the rest of the emails were the combination of please for her to drop the charges and asking if they could reconcile. Because nothing says I love you baby. I want you back then repeated stalking and harassment. I mean what a freak. But anyway, with all this communication, Charles was once again violating the restraining order, so they were able to easily bring him back in. He was arrested again. And like I said earlier, they didn't have any physical evidence tying him to the murder at this point, so they needed a way to bring him in that was legit. So this worked out quite well. So on September 18th, investigators were able to question him about Jackie. And no shock air at all, but he completely downplayed any connection to her at all. See for yourself. Obviously there's been some issues that you've had up in UNT. This is an ongoing issue, correct? Okay. That is not what I'm wanting to talk to you about. What I want to talk to you is another case. Okay. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to show you a picture of a female that like you to tell me if you recognize who she is. They started bar. Okay. What can you tell me about her? Is that it? I guess. So if you're listening to this episode and you didn't get to see that clip, you only got to hear it. When they show a picture of Jackie, the way that he cranes his head forward like he's confused and he's never seen Jackie in his life. It's so obvious that he's acting. And even when the investigator is pushing Charles tries to distance himself from her and made it seem like they hardly interacted, which is not true at all, take a look at this. I've found them and talked to some of them interact, any interaction with them, because the way you kind of make it sound to me right now is that you're kind of standing in one area and they're in the other area and you're just kind of watching. This would be the bar and that's like the village is here and they're over here. Okay, over here. So you're over here, they're over here, get between the two of you and that's all you recall. I'm just literally drinking from BSN. I know she's talking to Katie about times I don't know, I was I was very unsure. So anyway, as far as any direct conversation with this young lady that you had, I really just BSN, but nothing memorable. So I talked to a bunch of people that I think can. Oh God, the fact that you didn't even muster up this fake little laugh just makes me want to throw up. At some point though, they've kind of got to give up the act a little bit and be like, dude, listen, we know that you know more than you're telling us. It's very obvious. I mean, are you stupid? We literally have surveillance footage to prove it and his response, not the first person to use this. It's always amazing when people do this, but he just tried to say, I don't remember anything. Take a look. Controls, I feel confident you know more than what you're telling us on this. This is one of those things that this has happened already, okay? But the thing is you need to really get out in front of this because what kind of what kind of happens is that, you know, if there's charges that are followed against somebody who is committed such a terrible act, it's one of those things that the jury gets an opportunity to kind of hear and see what's going on, right? To see how this person reacted, maybe when contacted by law enforcement, is this something that we're more useful for, is this something that they're going to just completely continue to lie about it, you know. So what I'm doing right now, trolls, is I want to get to the truth. You telling me that you just saw her at a distance is not true. That's like, I have nowhere that's insane. It's like, okay, that's just what in my mind now, we have video from those bars at Trot Street that totally, it's different from what you're telling us and you're interaction with her, okay? So reconsider what you're telling us right now because every little lie that you tell us, it makes us doubt even the truth that you may want to come up with. It's so insane. I just remember nothing very convenient. So he basically goes on to say that he was black out drunk and doesn't remember anything that happened with her and what's interesting is before they told him that they knew about the murder, they had asked him how drunk he was that night and he said on a scale of 1 to 10, he was like a 6 or a 7. So I don't know if I'd really put that in black out drunk, don't remember the entire night category, right? That'd be more like a 9 or a 10. And not only that, his dumbass even said that he remembered when and how he got home. So you remember those details, but you don't even remember this person's face. You don't remember anything about being with her. You don't remember anything about the entire night. It's just washed from your memory. You know the amnesia for the night when it comes to Jackie. Okay, dude. So then eventually a new investigator came in and he called Charles out on all his bullshit. He explained to him that they were executing a search on his phone, his car and his home as they were speaking and they had already found a ton of evidence. Basically they told him, "Look dude, you're fucked. You better start talking." Because they also told him that they had surveillance footage of him at Walmart at 4am on the day that Jackie's body was found. Buying a literal shovel. Look at that. God, this guy could not get any more stupid. And in addition to that, there was footage of him at a gas station earlier that morning buying gasoline. Did he not realize that this was 2016 and that everything that you do, everything that you buy is on camera? That you're not going to be able to get away with something like this by being like, "I don't remember. I was so drunk. I don't remember anything." And not only that you guys, they also found her bag inside of his trash can, a military style knife, a hacksaw with hair on the blade. Several guns, a zip tie with visible blonde hairs wrapped around it, and a stun gun. Not to mention, they saw that there was a dead spot of grass in his backyard that looked like a kitty pool had once been there, but now that spot was magically empty. And his roommate even confirmed that there had been a little kitty pool there, but said it recently went missing. And his roommate also said that Charles had told him that he had dug some holes out there to make a coy pond. Yeah, he was really trying to convince his roommate that he was just doing a little fun project making a coy pond in the backyard. And not only that, they had already traced Jackie's phone records and saw that Jackie's phone had traveled to Charles's house that night after they left the bars, which lines up with the footage that they found of Jackie inside his car outside of the convenience store. In fact, her last phone ping was at a cell tower near his house. But yet with all of this, this dummy is still trying to pretend that he just doesn't remember any of it. Oh, and you're not going to believe this shit, but that night when he went to Walmart to buy the shovel, he ran into one of his neighbors. And I am not making this up. I could not make this up. He asked this neighbor how to get away with murder. And of course the neighbor's thinking, this is a joke. I'm going to joke back. So he said probably by burning it. I don't know. At the end of the day, I don't know what Charles was thinking, asking a neighbor that maybe the whole time he knew this is so bad, I am not going to get away with this might as well joke around because I don't, I don't know what he was thinking. He really thought denying all of this and he didn't remember was going to work. There's so much evidence here. Come on, man. We, we, we, we've laid it out for it. Okay, it's there. We're over there at your house. Okay, we have a video of you with this girl. You're at the bar. Her cell phone goes to your house. You're walking around Walmart at four o'clock in the morning, buying a shovel. She's found dead in a pool that came from your backyard. Okay. Yeah. You can't tell me. You can't tell me you don't remember. I don't know why. Come on, man. I'm giving you that. You're there. Obviously. You did all these things and there is no way in the world that a man can travel all the way from Haslet to Greatvine from Denton to Haslet to Greatvine and not remember. Stand up and man up and tell us what you did. Talk to me. Tell me the past hour and a half. I've been rocking my brain. There's no way, man. There's no way in the world that you do not remember this. There's no way. We'll go. I don't even remember taking her home. I thought it was home. She went to your house. Yeah, I don't remember taking her to my place, man. I don't. I thought I went home by myself. And you killed her. You killed her. And then you didn't just leave her there. You drove her to Greatvine. Tell me you don't remember that. Putting her in the car. Come on. God, unbelievable. And the way he's just nervously laughing, trying to act so casual, it's so sick. As you can hear, this guy is absolutely just going in on Charles listing out all of the things that he did, how there's just no way in hell that he doesn't remember this. Him trying to say that he is too drunk to remember just made no sense. And they just kept hammering it into him that they knew that he was lying. And I can see it in you. I can see in you that you want to stand up and you want to take I'm taking credit for it. I don't know how it happened. I don't I don't know why we end up in Greatvine. I don't know how I wake up and like not remember this. Because you come to Greatvine, you go to the park. I just thought I'd go to a place that I go, oh my God, so it makes no sense to me. Why would you leave her purse and your trash can at your house? Yeah, I don't know. I don't get it. Why would you leave zip ties from your car with her hair in it at your house? I don't know. Let's see you in the laugh. And this is probably like it's not laughing matter. It's literally you're in my face. I have nothing to do right now. It's like I'm not in your face. And as you can tell, the investigators are trying to use this whole buddy buddy act with him. Like we're friends, man, it's cool. Like just mess up. I can tell so badly that you want to stand up and be a man right now and tell the truth. Like they're playing hard ball, but at the same time they want to make them feel comfortable enough to just confess and make this easier for everybody involved. And as much As much as they're trying to do that, there is someone who is particularly known for being exceptionally good at doing this and that is Texas Ranger Jim Holland and this is when he was brought in and he is known specifically for his ability to get killers to confess, even serial killers. In fact, they call him the serial killer whisperer and that is really when there was a big shift because he really cranks up the were friends buddy buddy were comfortable were bonding to a whole new level and it works so well on this dumb fog and he gets a confession fast. Charles ends up saying that he had to have done it because that's what the evidence says but he says he still doesn't remember what happened so I guess in a way it's sort of a half confession if you will but take a listen. Tell me what's going on today, why are you wearing the Village people outfit? I don't remember me in this girl, it's like I met her at a public house and a public house. Turns out it was me. Dude, the nerve of this guy trying to paint himself like this is completely out of character for him. No it's not, no it's not. You had this and you were born this way. I just don't remember leaving with her it's like I'm taking it's like all of the insolent needs I just can't remember doing it but it's me, it's totally me, there's no doubt about it but I just want to go forward with it, I don't know where I'm going to go. So yeah, he can't just be a man and fully confess and own up to what he did to poor Jackie. Instead he wants to pretend like I'm the victim, I just did this I guess and I don't remember any of it, now I'm going to die in jail or maybe get the death penalty for me. But Jim is really good at what he does, he wants a better confession than that so he continues trying to establish more of a connection with Charles almost by sort of helping him to make excuses for what happens, sort of putting these words in his mouth so he'll just come out and admit to being fully conscious during the entire thing remembering it all and he's saying things like hey this could have happened in a moment of psychosis or this may have been self-defense, things to make Charles feel comfortable confiding more the details. How do we know that you weren't defending yourself and that you didn't freak out? I mean there's a bunch of things out there, we don't know but there could be some legitimacy in that, you know, the sexual stuff in the tax, I mean maybe she came on to you too strong, maybe she wasn't a 10, you didn't want to be with her, maybe she got mad. He is so great at his job, his ability to even transform into a douche like him to try to get on his level to say things like maybe she wasn't a 10 something like that that's going to make Charles feel like he's one of the bullies, he's one of the bros you know, he's so good, she's giving you all the signals and then cut you off, there could be all kinds of different things going on here, right, I mean, chicks, chicks man, chicks, he's good, all the law enforcement in this case were just excellent. And for a little while longer, Charles keeps up the same song and dance so you know, it has to have been me but I don't remember the same bullshit so finally Jim walks him through a memory exercise to help him remember, help jog that memory a little bit and suddenly it just, it works, it starts coming back to him, he said that he remembered offering her ride home and eventually claimed that the two of them had consensual but kinky sex which is what he said led to her death. Charles said that she wanted to be choked up with a zip tie and something happened and of course in that moment he has to blame her for her own death. And as far as why he then didn't do anything to save her after he noticed she wasn't moving, all he says is that he freaked out and this is very disturbing but he even described how he dismembered her put her into trash bags and set her on fire to try and destroy evidence. So at that point, Jim continues with the act and suggests that maybe the motive could have been about Caitlin but Charles denied that. And like I said in the beginning, that's one of the most frustrating parts of this case is there is no super clear motive although that is what most people believe to be true that the motive really is about Caitlin. Maybe he saw this young pretty girl who in a dark bar somewhat resembled his ex and after a few drinks, he managed to get her into his car and at some point a struggling suit that resulted in her death or maybe he was taking out anger on her. And you guys heard the evidence, I don't know what else to believe. I think that's the closest thing to a motive we're going to get, I think that's the closest thing that makes sense but I guess we'll never truly know why Charles did this to Jackie. But anyways, after hours of interrogation, Charles was officially charged with her murder and they held him on a $1 million bond this time. Now this news was a major shock to so many people including Jackie's loved ones of course. They just could not understand how this happened or who could have done this to Jackie. But this also seemed to surprise some of the people who knew Charles, some people that were friends with him or had come in contact with him. There was this one woman named Christie who had actually met him through a dating app back in 2015 and I saw an interview where she explained that there wasn't really a connection between the two of them but she did continue to stay friends with him. And shock or alert, I guess he had come across super strong and she wasn't feeling the same way but apparently he told her that he loved her after she had ended things which really surprised her because they had never even kissed. Which sounds right on par for Charles. But anyways, she learned about what happened and she thought back to a conversation that they had had where he told her that he was abused as a kid. Which she said in her mind kind of made his attachment style make a little bit more sense. Of course, I don't think she's making excuses for him in any way. But he clearly craved female attachment and had horrible coping skills when things didn't work out or he was rejected. So when she learned that he had killed a girl that was really surprising to her because she actually felt like he was harmless little did she know though he was the complete opposite of that and as for Caitlin, she was also pretty shocked by the news. I mean, she knew that he was insane but murder was next level. She did not think he was actually capable of killing somebody and to make matters even crazier. When she went on Facebook to look up Jackie, she realized that they were already friends. She had gotten a friend request from her on September 17th, which if you haven't already done the math here, that's three days after the murder. Meaning Charles had used Jackie's phone after he killed her to friend Caitlin himself. Which makes sense because if you remember, he was clearly tweeting from her account too. And what just rakes my heart here is that Caitlin feels guilty for what happened. She has actually said that she wishes this happened to her and not Jackie and that's not something anyone should feel. Charles is the only person responsible for this horrific murder and nobody else. And the fact that she has to have those feelings, which I don't blame her for having feelings like that, I think it's only natural. I hope with time she's been able to understand that she had no fault in this and that she never could have seen this coming and that she did everything right in the position that she was in. Just it's heartbreaking thinking that she has to live with feelings like that. And that's why I said at the beginning that she's a victim in all of this too. But just from what she went through personally with Charles and the stalking, but also from this murder, I mean, it's had a massive effect on her. And how could it not? Of course, the emotional impact of Jackie's death has hit her really, really hard, taken a giant toll on her. And it's just so unfair. And my heart truly goes out to her and everyone else who knew and loved Jackie. And just it makes no sense. I think Charles is truly evil. Now Jackie's loved ones did hold a vigil for her shortly after all this. And nearly 100 people gathered to honor and celebrate her life. Her parents thanked law enforcement for their support and professionalism. And her mom specifically talked about her daughter's multiple hair colors over the years as an expression of her creativity. Her best friend Jackie also spoke and she told stories of their friendship and shared how they were the Jackie's and how Jackie Vandegriff had always been there for her no matter what. And ultimately, as you can imagine, everyone was just determined to see justice for Jackie. So Charles's trial began in April of 2018, and despite having made a confession of sorts, I guess, he still, of course, big shocker here pleaded not guilty. and his eyes. argument was that she died while they had kinky sex. And if he was guilty of anything, it would only be tampering with evidence. And his defense attorney from the interviews I've seen of this woman, she pisses me off. I know it's her job, but the smugness, I mean, she just has to know damn well that he did it. There's so much evidence, but she fully, I guess, commits to the act that she believes he's an innocent man and will do anything to defend him. Again, I know it's her job. I just sometimes have such trouble with certain defense attorneys. I know they're needed. I know. But how can you, how can you represent something, someone like him, something like him, really? He's really a thing. But how can you sit there and lie on his behalf? I'll never understand it. I could never do it. But yeah, she tried to argue that there was no direct evidence tying him to her murder, although the circumstantial evidence is obviously very hard to ignore. Because not only was Charles the last person to be seen with her, but her hair and blood were found on several of the items retrieved from his car and home. Not to mention the fact that her phone last panged near his house in a surveillance footage placed him buying a shovel and gasoline hours before her burnt remains were found in a park. And don't forget, this was a park that he was known to go to. And investigators found photos from his Facebook page, which he had posted a few days before Jackie's murder. That showed that he went for a run at Grapevine Lake. And the path that he was on during that run would have taken him right by the area where Jackie's remains were later left. God, Charles is just such a moron. It's insane. And speaking of his Facebook, he also posted some super, super weird things on the night that he met Jackie, including a post at 11.56 p.m. on September 13th. That red teach you tricks that will blow your mind, which I don't know if that's really like freaky or creepy, but it's just like cringy. He's just so weird. And then there was another post on September 15th that red full moon. Let's see what trouble I can get into. So yeah, the prosecution had a pretty damn solid argument here, but what they didn't necessarily have was a motive. I mean, it's believed that Jackie's death was somehow related to the stalking of Caitlin, but during trial, the judge ended up ruling against Caitlin being allowed to testify. She was brought in one of the days and gave her testimony without the jury present, but the judge ended up ruling that it couldn't be used, which is so, so frustrating and honestly just really traumatizing for her because she had to face Charles again. She was actually asked to point him out in the courtroom to tell them what he was wearing. So she had to look at him and she said after she gave her testimony, she left the courtroom in tears and have to do all of that to have to look at him and him look back at her. All of that relive everything just for the judge to rule against her testimony being used had to have been devastating. And it did make it slightly harder for prosecutors, but again, this case is pretty rock solid. I mean, they had a pretty solid argument as to why the defense's argument was just bullshit. Plus, it's important to note that there was no evidence suggesting that Jackie had intercourse before she was killed. So for their whole argument, to be about how she died during sex, didn't really hold up. Did it? And luckily, the jury ultimately agreed. After a little over two hours of deliberation, they found Charles guilty of murder and tampering with evidence. Now, as for his sentencing, there is some disappointment there. Unfortunately, he was sentenced to life in prison, thankfully, but he unfortunately has the possibility of parole in 30 years with good behavior. There's a chance that he will walk free one day. Now, he did get an additional 20 years for tampering with evidence, but that doesn't really do much because that is to be served concurrently. And for Caitlin, the thought of that is terrifying. It's just torture. She feels like she will forever have to look over her shoulder because of what she knows her ex is capable of doing and because of the way that he stalked her leading up to this. And understandably, in my opinion, she honestly wished that he got the death penalty, but because he only committed one felony, the death penalty was off the table. So, I mean, yes, of course, people were happy and relieved that justice was served here that he didn't get away with this, but I get why they don't feel that life with the possibility of parole is enough. And I'm pretty sure in her shoes, I would feel the same way. What he did to Jackie after barely knowing her, spending a couple hours with her is unfathomably sick. He not only took her life, but the steps that he took afterwards that dismembering the burning someone like that does not ever deserve to see the light of day if you ask me. And I'm sure most of you will agree whether or not you believe he should get the death penalty. It's up for debate. And you know, that's when I've always struggled with. So I can't say for sure, but can't imagine how Caitlin feels. I mean, the thoughts that she must have had and must still have thinking about how it could have been her. It's horrible. It's just horrendous. And if this sicko cannot get any worse, he was also apparently found guilty of possession of CSAM or child sexual abuse material, but I wasn't able to find out much about when these charges came to be or anything about them. But from what I can tell though, it sounds like they found the material on his phone while they were searching it in connection with Jackie's death. So yeah, with that, that's really my final straw. I feel very confident in saying that this monster should never be set free. And I hope he isn't. I did want to leave you with one positive moment that happened after trial that I just thought was touching and thought you guys might agree. So the whole time since Jackie's death, the Caitlin's mom really wanted to reach out to her family, but just wasn't quite sure how it would be received. But after the trial, Jackie's grandma actually went up to Caitlin and told her that she had been super worried about her over the past two years. And Caitlin's mom said that this was just really emotional for her because, you know, she was technically the person who lost their loved when their granddaughter in such a horrific way. Yet it was her daughter that this woman was concerned about. And I think that really just speaks to the empathy that she had for Caitlin and how their family feels and how no one blames her for what happened. And I really hope that that moment helped Caitlin a lot. Jackie's whole family honestly just seems incredible and they've done some really great things in her honor. So when it takes some time to tell you about that. So they have established an endowment at Texas Women's University, which will help fund an internship through TWU's health and well-being initiative. This internship will be in Jackie's name and will be set aside for a food and nutrition science major. They've also encouraged people to make donations to Operation Kindness, which is a no-kill animal shelter in Texas. And that's because Jackie was a huge animal person in a lifelong vegetarian and saving animals was really, really important to her. Jackie's dad has said that it's been really difficult as time has gone on and he'll never forget the last time that he saw her. He was watching football and she came into the room and they chatted for a bit. And he said that he wishes he told her goodbye because he never ended up getting the chance. He did say it brings him comfort though that she is very close to their house so that he has a place that he can go visit her easily. Jackie was a caring, loving and compassionate young woman who should have had decades longer of spreading her joy in the world. And I just hope in some way her loved ones continue to feel that and that others continue to feel that. And I think with the things that they have done in her honor, they will. That is going to be it for me today guys. Thank you for joining me for another episode and make sure you follow the show on Spotify and Apple podcasts. It really does help me out. If you want to watch the video version of this show, you can find it on my YouTube channel, which will be linked or you can just search Kendall Ray. I will be back with another episode soon, but until then, stay safe out there.