Killed by Her Ex-Lover After Confrontation With New Boyfriend?! The Case of Alex Pennig

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of True Crime with Kendall Rae. Thank you so much for joining me. And if you're new to my show, then welcome. I'm happy to have you here. So you guys, today we are going to be talking about the wildly bizarre case of Alexandra Penig. And the reason I say it's bizarre is because I just can't wrap my mind around how things went downhill the night that this happened so quickly. It's one that I will be super curious to hear your opinion on because I know there are a lot of opinions out there on this case. There are a lot of people who believe that the jury got it wrong, and many others believe that justice was served. It all kind of depends on the person. It all kind of depends on, you know, which version of events you believe and if the evidence is compelling enough to you. And with that, let's go ahead and start talking about Alex's case, starting with how her story began. Alexandra Penig, or Alex as most people called her, was born on December 22nd, 1989 to her parents, Mary Jo and Jim. And she was living in Minnesota at the time of her death, specifically in St. Paul, although I wasn't able to get a lot of information from her. However, she was born on December 22nd, 1989 to her parents. as the baby and I bottle fed her, so I totally get it. She even had two cats of her own, Opie and Jax. Alex was also known for having every hair color in the book, truly, and for being incredibly feisty when she was growing up. She actually played ice hockey and her friends said that she was fire on ice. But I'd say her biggest strength, you know, what she was known best for was her passion for taking care of others. Her loved ones describe her as a really just nurturing type of person, which suited her well for working as a nurse, of course. And one of the main reasons why Alex ended up becoming a nurse is actually a big part of her case. Back when she was a young adult, like so many of us do, Alex struggled with depression and she also struggled with addiction, specifically to prescription pills. And she got to a very low point one day and she ended up taking a handful of pills in an attempt to cure her depression. And she ended up taking a handful of pills in an attempt to cure her depression. And she ended up taking a handful of pills in an attempt on her life. And she even texted her mom, letting her know what she was planning to do. It was very, very scary. However, thankfully, almost immediately after taking them, she made herself throw up because she realized that she wasn't ready to quit. And so after being rushed to the hospital and having her life saved, Alex realized that she wanted to become a nurse and help others the way that nurses and doctors helped her that night. So after getting her bachelor's degree in public health from Montana State University, Alex was able to get a job at a health center in She got her LPN degree from St. Paul College and then her RN degree from Alexandria Technical and Community College. And she was even asked to speak at graduation, where she truly spoke from her heart about getting to where she was. And it's very emotional to watch, especially with what ends up happening. By her parents' account, at this point in her life, at the time of her death, things were on a positive trajectory. In fact, on the evening of December 15th, 2022, she and her mom were texting. And her mom, Mary Jo, says everything seemed completely fine, nothing out of the ordinary. But in the early morning hours of the 16th, everything changed and everything went downhill, like I said, so fast. At 2.50 a.m., St. Paul police dispatchers responded to a 911 call from someone reporting that his friend, Alex Penig, had just shot herself in her apartment. I got a girl who shot herself in her head. Where's the gun? Where's the gun? The gun is right here. I have a, I have a, I can't see her and carry. Is she alive? Is she breathing? No. No. No. All units were immediately called. She was immediately sent to her building, and they were met and escorted to her apartment by Matthew Ecker. Now, Matthew was Alex's friend, and he led them from the lobby to the elevator and then finally to her bathroom, which was just to the right of the front door. Unfortunately, though, there was nothing that they could do to save her. Alex was found lying face up with her left hand covering a gun, which was resting on the left side of her shoulder area. She had suffered a gunshot wound to her left temple, and at first glance, it did appear as though her injury was self-inflicted. Neighbors were spoken to, and no one remembered hearing anything, which kind of blows my mind, especially in an apartment complex. But they had to go completely off Matthew's recollection of the events that night, and he gave them his version of events right there in the hallway of her building. And this conversation was captured on body cam, so you'll be able to see it for yourself. And at first, he appears to be too emotional to really explain what happened. But after catching his breath, Matthew started explaining. After that, and we went to a bar today. Yep. Um, what's the bar? Um, does that make sense? Yep. And her boyfriend confronted me. He punched me. Her boyfriend punched me. Okay. And he got kicked out. Okay. And we came back here after that. Like, everything was fine. Like you heard Matthew say, Alex was his girlfriend, or at least she had been his girlfriend for about two years. He was married, and he and his wife had four kids. And yes, the two of them dated while he was married. And just like Alex, Matthew was also a nurse. The two of them had actually been married for about two years. And he and his wife had four kids. And yes, the two of them actually met in 2020 while working at the same walk-in clinic. And from what I was able to gather, it sounds like the two of them had broken up at some point, but chose to remain friends. So anyway, Matthew loosely explained their dynamic, and then he started to describe what had happened that night. He said they went to a bar called Camp, and then they ran into Alex's current boyfriend, who he says punched him. He then goes on to explain that the reason they were even together that night was because Alex called him, saying that she was afraid that her current boyfriend, Shane, would punch him. And he said, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And it's important to note that Matthew lived three hours away, and he was also headed into work when she called. But he cared so much for Alex, he decided to drop everything and wanted to be there for her because he wanted to, quote, help her feel safe. After coming home from the bar, though, Matthew says that she took his gun out of his suitcase, which, side note, he brought with him as protection. He then says she removes it from the holster, then proceeded to walk backwards towards the bathroom. He claims she told him not to come any closer or she would shoot, and then she locked herself inside the bathroom, which is where he says she fired the weapon. He then went on to say that he broke down the door to get to her when he heard the gun going off, but it was too late. Now, some context to this is important, okay? So, according to sources, Matthew did have his license to carry, and it wasn't unusual for him to carry his weapon. He had it on him a lot of the time, it sounds like. However, it was obvious to him when he got to Alex around 2 p.m., that she wasn't in immediate danger. Whatever fight that she had supposedly gotten into with Shane was over, and he was no longer there. But since he had already made the long drive, Matthew says they decided to continue to hang out, and eventually they ended up at camp, that bar, which is where they run into Shane. And Matthew was not lying about what happened at the bar. He certainly got punched by Shane. You can actually see security footage of it captured the entire interaction. Matthew and Alex can be seen entering together, but as they approach the bar, they end up separating. Matthew stays on one side of the bar, while Alex walks over to the other, which, by the way, was where her boyfriend Shane was sitting with another woman. And pretty soon, Shane gets up and walks over to Alex and strikes up a conversation. No idea what was said. This was followed by Matthew making his way over to that side of the bar, and then he sits on the other side of Alex, so she's sort of sandwiched between them. And then, after just a few seconds, Matthew stands up, faces Shane directly, and reaches his hand out, almost as if he's introducing himself. But within seconds, Shane punches Matthew, and the two of them tumble to the ground. Shane did get kicked out after this, and Matthew and Alex ended up staying at that bar for another 45 minutes or so. And when they got home is when he said Alex took his gun. So for a second, let's go back to that footage in the hallway of Matthew talking to police. He proceeds to explain what happened after the gun went off, which according to him, there was a short delay in calling 911 because he couldn't find his phone. And this is important. He said he absolutely touched her. And tried to render first aid because he's a nurse practitioner. And he also admitted to washing his hands. Holly, it said that you waited a little bit to call the police. No, I looked at her, I ran back out, and I couldn't find my phone. And I tried to find my phone. And then, did you touch her or move her? I did, yeah, absolutely. Where was she? She was laying where she was. Okay, so how did you move her? Like, where did you do it? I tried. And then, all this thing, it just, her whole, the whole, her hands, and she was trying to breathe. She was trying to breathe, and you were trying to stop the breathing, or the blood? Yeah, my hands. So how did you try to give first aid? I know, I know, I know, I know, um, I'm an MP. Okay. By working in an emergency department. And I started taking her. And I had a couple of just, like, chain-soaks breathing. Yeah. Like, I understood that this was just done. Mm-hmm. She just, I, I, I tried what I could. So, and I know that I just have to, because I have to have a medical examiner. Yeah, I get it. Like, I, I, I tried to do what I could. Okay. And then I washed my hands. And then you washed your hands? Correct. That's why I don't have anything. And then you, then you called the police? Yeah. And if you're listening to the audio-only version of this episode, it's really important to know that Matthew was totally clean in this footage. Not a drop of blood could be seen on him. And right there at the end, where he said he washed his hands, is also super important to remember. It's a very big part of this case. I mean, you'd think that even if he washed his hands, there would still potentially be some blood on him. At least on his clothes or something. Especially since he said he tried to stop her head from bleeding. Yet despite touching her bleeding wound, he was spotless. And this was something that officers noted right away and made them question if he was telling the full story. So they end up asking him to come into the station and give a formal statement, which he did willingly. Meanwhile, the scene continued to be processed. And that's where a few key things stood out. So for starters, investigators noticed that inside her apartment, there were six bottles of prescription medication, as well as some alcohol. Which at first glance confirmed what Matthew told them in the hallway about Alex having struggled with addiction. These pills included antidepressants, as well as amphetamines, all of which were prescribed to her. And this could have backed up what Matthew was saying, that she did this to herself. But only if you fail to look at the entire picture here. Because when you start looking at all the evidence and all the inconsistencies, you might agree with investigators that it looks like Alex was not responsible for this. Just while looking at the scene, police started noticing some glaring problems with Matthew's story. One of the biggest ones being the fact that the sink in the bathroom, the one that he said he washed his hands in, was bone dry. Now, according to Matthew, there was about a four-minute lag between the shooting and him calling 911 while he was looking for his phone. And even if that's true, which investigators believe more time had passed, and I think you will too, there's no way the sink would have dried that quickly. Plus, think about it, if his hands were bloody, the faucets would have had blood on them from when he turned them on, right? But those were completely clean. And I should also mention, the gun was completely clean too. It didn't appear to have blood on it, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you believe Matthew when he said that she put it to her own head. If Alex pulled the trigger, or she was holding the gun and it went off. Either way, there would be blood spatter on that gun, no doubt. And then, of course, there was blood around her body, and that already started to dry, which tells investigators that that gun went off a lot earlier than Matthew claimed. And then we also have to go over the fact that investigators noticed that the position of Alex's body did not match Matthew's story. And if you're watching this episode, you'll be able to see this visual here, which will really help. But for my audience, audio listeners, you really gotta try your best to picture this. Basically, what they found was that her legs were straddling either side of the door. And they believe that if Alex pulled the trigger and then Matthew busted open the door after that, like he claimed, then her legs would have been swept to one side, not one on each side. And in their minds, this suggested that the bathroom door was open when the weapon was fired. And I'll touch more on some other inconsistencies as we go on. here because there are quite a few, but I want to keep walking through the events as they unraveled. So Matthew gets brought into the station for further questioning. And meanwhile, additional officers went to speak to Shane because also while they were at Alex's apartment, they had observed two holes in the wall as if someone had punched them. And they were trying to get a clearer picture of the alleged domestic dispute that kicked off Matthew coming to town in the first place. They also, of course, wanted to know if he knew anything about what happened, but they didn't. But based on the body cam footage, and it's tough to watch, Shane was extremely shocked and very heartbroken. I have a witness that says you were with Matt, Matt Ecker. I don't even know who that is. Okay. And Alexandra, you know, Alex, Alex Penning. I know who Alex is. That's, I've been dating her. So it's not good news for her. And we have investigators downtown who would like to chat with you. About last night. It's not good news for her? Yeah. What do you mean? Is she okay? No. What do you mean? So the investigators wanted, so she was in a lot of trouble. She's in a lot of trouble? And the investigators want to chat with you about what you know of her. For some reason, they know that you were an ex-boyfriend or something, that you might have information about who she hangs out with. Potentially you were with them at a bar last night. Is she okay? She's passed away. No. Yeah. So that's why we need you to talk to the investigators. How? I can't, I can't share all. I don't have all the information. The investigators need to chat with you. No way. I'll, I'll, I'll explain it to you later. I'll, I'll explain it to you later. I'll explain it to you later. He explained that they had been dating for a few months and it had been going very well, so much so that they had planned on moving in together. No. I wouldn't, I wouldn't. You can not, you can not, you can not, you can not. I know it's, it's obviously as serious as it gets. Oh my God. Like that's, that's like we, like we're, we're, I was talking about like moving out of my place and like moving in with her. Like we, like we've been, like she's, she's been okay. Like. Have you been, you've dated in the past, you've just been kind of rekindling. We've been, we've been like. We've been like consistently like dating, like for the past, like three months. Oh. Okay. And after this, he voluntarily went to the station to answer more questions and he talked about their plans for the future. What's interesting though, is he described their relationship as a happy one. Yet Matthew painted a much different picture, a picture of a relationship filled with abuse. Now whether or not you believe Shane is up to you, and I don't feel like we have enough information to believe him or not. But, but Shane completely denies all the allegations of abuse from Matthew. He did admit to punching the wall, the hole in the wall, which to me is very concerning, very questionable. But he said that he did it because they got into an argument about what was taking him so long to move in. And while I personally think that punching a wall is a big red flag, makes me worried, he claims that he never. laid a finger on her. He said that they fought like a married couple but things were good between them. There is no proof either way to confirm or deny his claims. And as for why he punched Matthew, which to me is also a big red flag, considering how quickly that happened, he said that he was just jealous that Alex was with another man. But these events aside, the nuances of his relationship don't entirely matter when it comes to the context of who actually pulled the trigger, because we know that it wasn't Shane. I mean, we flat out know he wasn't there that night. He's not on security cam footage. So investigators immediately didn't believe he was responsible and he got put off to the side. But I don't know. Their relationship, they could have had a horrible relationship for all we know, or it could have been a good one. I don't know. There's not enough information. And like I said, it doesn't really matter when it comes to the context of her actual death. This was between Matthew and Alex. So investigators dug deeper into their history, to see if they could uncover anything to explain what happened. As I explained earlier, Matthew and Alex met when they were co-workers at a clinic in 2020. And as far as the affair goes, each of their parents have sort of a different idea of what happened. His parents said that it was definitely a fair, whereas her parents only described him as someone that she worked with. And without Alex being able to give her side of things, I'm positive there's a lot to their dynamic that will never change. But I don't know. I don't think it's going to change. I don't think we'll ever truly understand. What I can say, though, at least from my research, is that unfortunately, Alex may have slipped back into a not-so-healthy pattern when it comes to drinking and pill usage. Several sources have reported that she was struggling to maintain a steady income because of inconsistencies when it comes to her showing up for work and just problems at her job. And that Matthew was helping her pay rent. I'm not able to confirm this. This is just what some sources say. I also learned that Matthew was doing something else for her. Remember how I said investigators found six bottles of prescription pills at her apartment? Well, guess who was prescribing them? Matthew. And to be clear, it wasn't illegal for Matthew to be prescribing her pills, but it is highly unethical. She was not his wife. Not his client. And he knew about her history with addiction. And from what I can tell, he was getting her deeper into something that was incredibly dangerous, given her past. And three days before the night of her death, she texted Matthew and said, I shut myself out to the world. I needed a mental health break. And I'm not very hopeful at the moment about life. And of course, these are very sad, concerning messages. And because of this, Matthew says it's obvious that she's not going to be able to get out of the hospital. She says that she was responsible for what happened, that she did this to herself. But her parents adamantly deny that she was in that kind of headspace at this time. Plus, they said that she didn't even like guns and had never shot one before, which I should point out is pivotal to this case. Earlier, I mentioned that the gunshot wound was to her left temple and that her left hand was placed on top of the gun. And there was even gunshot residue found on that same hand. But what's super important to note here is that Alex was right-handed. So you're telling me that she just picked up a gun when she had never used a gun before with her left hand, her non-dominant hand? Matthew even told investigators that he thought it was strange that she used her left hand, that he had noticed that because he knew that she was right-handed. And to me, and this is just my opinion, it almost seems like he was trying to get ahead of that part of the story because he knew that it didn't make any sense. But that's not even where the weirdness ends. Because remember how I said that the gun was clean and free of blood spatter? Well, so were her hands. There was residue from the gunpowder, but there was no blood. And this was an inconsistency that investigators, of course, brought up to Matthew when he was down at the station. To have her left hand completely clean. It was in her left hand. I can't explain that. Even if she did do it to herself, there would be blood on her hand, right? I would think so. Yeah. Yeah. And then if you say what you did and put it back on, there definitely, 100% should be blood on your hand, right? Yeah. Her hand is completely dry and clean. Okay. That's what my partner here is saying. Right now, all this evidence is not clear. This is not ad-hoc. I can't. I just want you to just think. I just want you to think about this and what you're- You're asking me to confess to something I didn't do. No, I'm not. I'm asking you just to think about it. I didn't do that. I'm asking you to think about it. I'm asking you to think about your wife and your four kids. Oh my God. Matthew was also confronted with the fact that the blood around Alex's body had already started to dry. The reason why we are asking about the timeline so much, and you know, you're a doctor, is because the blood in, around her, on the toilet, in the sink, it was dry already when the police got there. Okay. So we're wondering maybe, is the timeline maybe just a little bit off? Because, I mean, you know as a doctor that blood doesn't dry that quick and doesn't start flaking or anything. And by the time that the police officer arrived, they noticed that it was dried already. Yeah. I mean, I. It's. It's. It's possible that I got up and went out, and then came back, and then went out again. I mean, it was not long. Okay. Not long. I mean, do you think it was possibly maybe passed out at all? I don't think it would have been that long. Because the blood was starting to coagulate. It was. It was then. Okay. Yeah. I mean, like I said, I may have gone. It's possible that I went out to try to fight the phone and then came back, and I was doing stuff, and then went out to get the phone again. And I. I mean. I don't think I passed out at all. I remember. I'm pretty sure I didn't. But it wasn't long. Okay. It was not long. His whole story during questioning really started to fall apart. You could just tell he was trying to keep his story straight, that he was struggling. He knew it wasn't making sense, and the detectives just weren't having it. They're telling him, "Dude, this is not adding up." And eventually, they just decided they were going to leave the room, and they told him to think about everything one last time, and see if maybe he would change his story, that they would come back and ask him once again. And guess what? He did change his story. After almost two hours in questioning, Matthew admitted that he moved the gun, which is the only thing that makes sense, of course. And he stands by the fact that she was the shooter. But he now claimed that he panicked, and moved the gun after it all happened. Since the weapon belonged to him, Matthew said he was worried that he would get in trouble. And rather than leave the evidence as is, he said he moved it to his suitcase, only to panic again, and put it back in the bathroom on her shoulder. He swears he didn't clean the gun, though, which makes no sense, because it was clean, clean when it was found. Now, I just want to insert my own personal opinion. I don't know. I want to hear your personal thoughts here. I kind of think that he was planning on fleeing, because remember, they were drinking that night. I don't think he thought this through at all. I think he may have thought, "I'm going to put the gun in my bag, and I'm going to leave it. I'm going to clean it, then put it in my bag and leave." And then he all of a sudden remembered, "Wait, I'm on camera here at this apartment complex. I cannot get out of this. I was here." So then he decided to stage it. I can't really make sense of his story any other way, because it's so stupid. I don't know why anyone would stage a scene this way. And that's another reason why I describe this case as just bizarre. Everything about it to me is so bizarre, how this happened so quickly, Matthew's behavior. It's all just weird. So, the change that I have, and I was scared. I was scared. I was scared. I was scared. After this had happened and I maintained that the shot went off behind the holster, I was not in the bathroom when that came off. I will maintain that until the day I die. I did take the gun and I put it in my suitcase. I got scared for a second. I didn't know what was going on. I took the gun. I may have put it in the holster and I don't remember if I did or not. I put it in the suitcase, went back, looked at her, and said, "Yep." Went back to the suitcase, grabbed the gun, and put it back there. I don't know what my plan was there. I don't know what I was thinking. I got scared for a second, but that's what I do. Did you clean the gun off? I did not clean the gun off. So there's going to be blood inside the holster and blood inside the suitcase? There should be. If there was blood on the gun, there should be. Okay. That's all. I didn't clean the gun off. Your point of getting rid of the gun was why? I got scared. I got scared. But scared of what? I don't know. Getting in trouble. Because it was my gun. i got scared and then i knew it was wrong and put it back in there it was up here when i got it that must have took you a long time because by the time the officers got there the blood's dry the other blood's coagulated i freaked out i took the gun i put it in my case i brought it back i i put it on your chest i moved i i was yeah i believe you man i believe that you did that but things were good between us they were fine this morning though were they though yeah you just got punched by her ex-boyfriend i don't care about that but things are good yeah yeah you're saying that things are good you guys have been dating for two for two years and you have a wife and four children at home things weren't good things were good she wasn't happy with that and at some point he also recanted his part of the story where he said he attempted cpr and this many believe is critical to the case matthew now claimed he didn't know what to do so he didn't actually touch her yet at one point in his career he was an emergency room nurse so he definitely would have known how to help her and honestly i'm just guessing here but i think he realized he needed an explanation for why his clothes were clean and saying he didn't touch her would explain that and with his story flip-flopping like this the detectives definitely didn't shy away from calling him out plus investigators and many others don't believe that things were going as well as matthew said that they were between him and alex listen to this as the investigation goes on they end up finding more security footage and it was from alex's apartment complex like i mentioned a little bit ago and while they were viewing it they were able to track what time the two of them got home from the bar it was 2 0 5 a.m they entered her building and not long after they see something interesting because at 2 24 a.m both matthew and alex can be seen leaving her building together matthew is walking in front of alex and he noticeably doesn't hold the door for her and maybe it's reading too much into it but the body language there seems a little cold but anyway a few minutes later around 2 30 a.m they come back in and the energy has continued to shift now matthew claimed that they were just going to his car to grab his headphones which side note i think is kind of strange they both needed to go get his headphones and why did you need them that late at night maybe he used them when he's sleeping why would she go with you i guess she could have it just feels a little weird and that's the end of this video i hope you enjoyed it and i'll see you on the next one if you enjoyed this video make sure to hit the like button and share it with your friends and if you're new here i would love to hear from you guys in the comments Maybe he wasn't going to refill those, he told her he wasn't going to and she was mad at him for that and maybe threatening to expose the affair or expose him for prescribing her the medications. That's complete speculation. No evidence that that is the case. Were they just in an intoxicated argument and the affair got brought up? Maybe she was threatening to out him to his wife. I mean, who knows? The motive, super, super unclear here. It could have really been anything. And of course, without a strong motive, it does make it hard. And both sides were nervous about what the jury was going to ultimately do. In the end, of course, the defense wanted the jury to come to the conclusion that Matthew was not guilty, saying that because a medical examiner could not rule this a homicide, that they shouldn't either. But when all was said and done, that is exactly what they did. They found him guilty, of second degree murder in April of 2024. And he was sentenced to 30 years in prison. Like I said at the beginning of this episode, people are super torn on this verdict. And I don't, it's hard for me to say, I very much lean towards guilty. There is a part of me that thinks I can kind of see where there would be room for reasonable doubt. But I think ultimately, the evidence is strong enough. But don't get me wrong, it's tough. I had to think about, for a while, because it is just so weird. And during sentencing, several people gave victim impact statements on Alex's side, asking that the judge give Matthew a sentence that is reflective of his actions. Meanwhile, his parents also spoke and asked the judge for leniency. Matthew's family does not believe he is guilty. They are adamant that the jury got this one wrong. And he has tried to appeal. He filed an appeal in June, but the original conviction was upheld. I think despite the fact that Matthew is guilty, Matthew is not guilty. Matthew is not guilty. Matthew is not there being justice, though. Alex's loved ones are left with a lot of questions. And the big one being why? Why? And obviously, because there's not a straightforward motive, a lot of people struggle to believe he's guilty. I definitely want to hear what you guys think on this one, whether you think he's guilty or not. And either way, I'm curious to hear your thoughts, because this one has really bothered me. Before I go, I want to end with a few more notes about Alex. Since her passing, she has been deeply missed by all of her friends and family. Two of her friends and her parents actually get together often to tell stories and memories about her, which I think is a cool way to keep her memory alive. And her parents also built a chicken coop in their yard, and they call it Alex's coop, which I loved that. And I think she would have loved that, too. Not only because she had a deep love of animals, but I guess right after she died, her parents had found a rooster in their yard. To them, it was sort of like a sign. And so now they have about a dozen chickens, and raising them reminds them of her and helps them feel close to Alex at the end of the day. The cemetery where she was buried is also near their house, so they're able to visit her often. And Alex's case just makes me so sad, because she was so young, and she had so much life left to live and so many more people to help. She should absolutely still be here today. And it makes me sick thinking of all that her family and friends have had. That is going to be it for me today, guys. Thank you for joining me for another episode. And make sure you follow the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. It really does help me out. If you want to watch the video version of this show, you can find it on my YouTube channel, which will be linked, or you can just search Kendall Rae. I will be back with another episode soon. But until then, stay safe out there. you