Kiki Iriafen on the Young, Tough, and Joyful Mystics

Welcome to the Wringer WNBA Show. I'm Sierid Sohee as always and I will be joined later by Kiki Iriuffin. We had a great time talking about the Washington Mystics and her rise. She's an amazing second year player. But before we get to that, I wanted to go through some WNBA topics this week and we're going to start with Stephanie White, predictably, Stephanie White. Look, sometimes you stare into the abyss and it answers back. That's basically the feedback loop that the WNBA has been existing in with the online space. The online has been impacting the offline all season and essentially every facet of the game whether it is the WNBA Rules Committee that should be meeting about things like refereeing is now having conversations about guidelines around transgender athletes being in the WNBA. There are no transgender women trying to enter the WNBA at least in good faith at this moment but because of some grifters that is now. A huge talking point that the WNBA now has to address Stephanie White and the Indiana fever. She has no actual, I mean look to the degree that any WNBA locker room has some issues. Yeah, there's probably some stuff but by and large the Indiana fever which are riding high right now they have the best offense in WNBA history. Average defense but I think that's the formula that a lot of people wanted out of out of Steph White who's defensive coach but she essentially came to her own defense and spoke out against the online narratives that have been plaguing this team basically since 2024 since Caitlin Clark entered the WNBA. I wrote about this at the start of the season I wrote an article called the Caitlin Clark effect is having an impact on Caitlin and there has just been a microscopic and distorted lens that has been turned on her that has been turned on everybody around her that has been turned on the WNBA as a whole and the biggest culprit to me of all of this like look all the content creators that are that that like to so discord that like to make something out of nothing every time there is a fever story they are a symptom. The cause is the algorithm. We live in a world where the algorithm rewards agreement it awards rewards rage bay it awards conspiracy so essentially for those content creators to get views they have to and they they they are incentivized to make something out of nothing and that's basically what they have been doing for three years. In this instance there was a lot of pushback after Dijonet Carrington fouled Sophie Cunningham Sophie Cunningham kind of came down hard it was clearly a flagrant to it was called a flagrant to in the moment the refs got it right Dijonet Carrington was suspended I'm sorry rather she was she was ejected from that game there was like the tweet fracas white privilege stuff all of that not that interested in getting to that aspect of it surely because like I said last time I just had culture war over stimulation but after the game Steph White who was coached Dijonet Carrington before basically said look Dijonet Carrington is a player who just goes forward she doesn't give up on defensive plays and she didn't think it was intentional um at the time Stephanie White had not seen the play in in replay and did not see essentially you know how I I guess you know how close Sophie Cunningham was to was to potentially getting hurt on that play um she said as much afterwards you know in this in this press conference that she that she had and in fact let's just play the clip here no I'm gonna start today um you know this isn't necessarily for those people that are in this room um this is more for an online community that's trying trying to create narratives that simply don't exist trying to create a fabrication or distortion of who I am of what I'm about our player success our players health and wellness our players safety is always a top priority for me one of the things I pride myself on is my relationships with players for those who have anything to say about the play in the last game I didn't see the play in real time I went straight to a press conference I thought the play got called right thankfully Sophie's okay was it egregious absolutely when you have a chance to watch that over and over and over on replay you can see that I didn't have that in real time whether I take personally any suggestions that I don't 100% always have my players back I ride with them 10 toes down all the time all the time they know that it's a shame that we can't have an opportunity to talk about what great basketball they're playing because they are playing the reality is with me I will always lead with love I will always lead with grace I will always lead with humility and I will always lead with integrity doesn't mean I'll always get it right I'm also human the hate the fear mongering the divisiveness the stuff that's trying to hijack our league will not win it won't win we are united we are connected we will not be divided every day these women put their on the line every day when they go low we go high love will win grace will win humility will win and kindness will win I stand by them I will always stand by them everybody else can go to hell so clearly she is incredibly upset and I think she's in a difficult spot because if she does speak up for her players which she did after the Caitlyn Clark Alyssa Thomas moment where she really took it to the league and the referees for not keeping games under control then she's accused of stoking racial slash culture war fires which she was after that game if she doesn't speak out against these plays then the story is that she doesn't have her players backs and honestly here's the thing I would imagine just giving the voltage of the discourse around the fever I would imagine that the players are probably happy to have a coach who doesn't take every opportunity in front of a podium to turn to temperature up but like I said in this algorithm driven content market a simple explanation is never enough there has to be some level of conspiracy going on early on in the season the conspiracy was at Stephanie White was deliberately sabotaging Caitlyn Clark not running pick and rolls for her not running the offense through her flash forward to now Caitlyn Clark is number one an assist number four in points and she runs more pick and roll than every player in the league that is not named Olivia Miles or Car the Late um what I wrote my story about the Caitlyn Clark you know distortion field as Howard McDonald has his very aptly called it it was because there were conspiracies that Caitlyn Clark was being punished after a interaction on the bench with Brianna January that this was actually a secret suspension when in reality she was just sitting out a game because she was coming back from this back injury and it had flared up that morning Caitlyn Clark after all of that was very visibly upset had a press conference where she said look like like what do you guys want to know what I ate for breakfast she was clearly coming back from an injury flash forward to now Clark is now listed as probable for every game so that the league doesn't so the league doesn't find uh or give the fever a warning for not appropriately reporting her injury status which they did at the time and she's feeling great the strategic management plan as Scott Agnes reported and then had his credentials mystifyingly revoked uh for for um this was clearly what they were doing they were doing load management and it worked she's feeling great right now and they're peaking and exactly the time that you want to be peaking your 10 games out of the playoffs and you have essentially a few things left to solve but this fever team is looking really really good and that's essentially what the story about the fever should be um instead you have the lieutenant governor of Indiana calling for Stephanie White's head saying that she's not protecting her players enough and I think if you're a coach I think that that things like that like really hit on a deeper level like if you're a coach like you spent so much of your career essentially You know, trying to uplift and help people become the best versions of themselves. And Sophie Cunningham, Caitlin Clark, or rather after that game against the Liberty spoke up and they were like, "Look, we have Steph's back. Steph has our back." Caitlin said that she was, you know, pretty upset to hear the fans booing Stephanie White in the pre-game introduction. Kelsey Mitchell said the same thing. They all have her back. And I think that in reality, when you're in a situation like this and a team actually does have discord, when something like this happens publicly, usually more stuff comes out after it because it becomes an opportunity for whoever has an issue to air out even more dirty laundry. And what we are essentially seeing is the opposite. So whatever issue, look, I'm not saying nobody can have any issues with Steph White without being a conspiracy theorist or certainly things that she could have done better earlier this season as a coach, I think that she's actually adapted quite a bit to the reality of what this team is. And you know, I said it after the last game, I think there's still certain things like you don't need to sub out defensive, you don't have to sub out Caitlin Clark for defensive possessions anymore with the level of defense she's been playing over the last 5 or 10 games or so. And she's a coach, she's like just somebody doing her job and she's not going to be perfect, but by and large, like she's done a pretty good job with this fever team. And she's really helped each member of the big three a lot with their personal development. In ways that fans have often taken issue with, like what was the biggest issue with Caitlin Clark? Like her development was that, oh, you shouldn't have her taking mid-range jumpers. That's going to take away her magic, we don't need to be doing stuff like that with her her ability to take mid-range jumpers off the dribble has opened up and improved every part of her game from her pick and roll play from her ability to just like hold her own space so she doesn't turn it over as much when she's trying to figure out what the reads are. It keeps defense is honest, it allows her to get to the rim, which then in turn goes and opens up her logo threes as well. Like her game just looks much more well-balanced as season and she's basically at this point having an MVP level season as a result of a lot of the development work that step white was a big part of. She wanted to Lea Boston to shoot more threes, Lea Boston is shooting 46% on three pointers this season. That's a better figure than any player in the WNBA, Kelsey Mitchell is sworn up and down over and over again that step white has been the most important coach in her career. So like the difference just between the reality of what happens in a WNBA locker room, what happens at WNBA games, I've said this before, that is the biggest PR problem that Lea has a difference between what is actually going on and people's perception of what is going on. But the problem is that the online world is not like just in this silo, it exists in the feedback with real world. That is why you have fans that are brewing Stephanie White because they have come to believe that she is truly sabotaging this team, that she is truly not having her players back. And that's that just feels like, look, from what they have actually said and the fact that they went out and won that game and they told her, look, there's no way, Caitlin said there's no way we were going to lose that game. We were going to win that game for step white. That just tells me that whatever narrative thread is being that is being weaved is just ultimately incorrect, and this dovetails with so many issues that the WNBA has in general just as far as its storytelling goes. And as much as I'd like to find somebody that could put responsible for all this, like, look, I have had no problem with holding Kathy and Angle Bird's feet to the fire. At this point, the experiment has just left the lab in a way that I don't even know that anybody could could could bring it in at this point. Like step white has spoken up, Caitlin Clark has spoken up multiple times. It doesn't really matter. It really never matters what anybody involved in these situations actually says. Like they get accused of being part of a cover up too, or like Caitlin gets accused of basically being like, you know, too nice, like too, too, too, too step white pill, and it's like, well, why don't we just actually take what the people that are actually involved in this, whose day-to-day lives, whose livelihoods are actually impacted by this coach into account? That's all on that. Actually it does dub till a little bit with another thing. So really unfortunate news coming out of the New York Liberty today. Christa Marco, in a press conference, shout out to Madeline Cany of the New York Post who asked this question, but Christa Marco told reporters at Satoos Abelie who had her injury designation change from concussion to head injury is going to be away from the team for an undisclosed period of time. He says it's her second significant head injury in the past 12 months. As with all of our players, health will always be the focus. We look forward to getting her back. She's just taking her time right now. Look, head injuries are absolutely no joke. I had a pretty gnarly concussion two years ago. I've had a few. They're awful. And when they compound, they really, really set you back physically and mentally. It's depressing because you can't do anything. You can't even really use your brain like forget the actual physical part of it, which also will make your head spin. It's just it's hard to do anything. There's I think a loss of identity aspect of it too, especially for anybody who's playing sports and so much of who they who they are is in what they are. I think it's just a very, very difficult injury to go through. And the first concussion that Satoos Abelie had was in the WNBA finals and people who are watching will remember how poorly handled that was by the Phoenix Mercury. At the time, they should have brought some sort of stretcher out for her, some sort of wheelchair or something. She basically had to, you know, be helped by Clea Copper and another member of the training staff to, like, to try to basically walk that concussion off on her own. And it was just a really, really bad look for the WNBA's health and protocol. And the concussion that she got that was after this was, was like, very closely timed to the Elicitomas Caitlyn Clark moment. And ultimately, look, that was obviously a very, very scary looking moment anytime somebody gets hit in the neck, especially Caitlyn Clark, that is, you know, going to draw attention in eyeballs. But at the same time, you had this second concussion happening right around then. And that one has had a huge impact on the Liberty. It has had a huge impact on Sawtooth, Sawtooth's season. Hopefully she is back. Well, honestly, forget hopefully being back, like, I hope that she's just doing okay because head injuries are absolutely no joke. Like, they can be life changing. And I just, you know, I'm sending all of my prayers, my patients, everything to Sawtooth usually in the hopes that she, you know, just continues to recover from this. But yeah, just, it speaks to the things that get blown out of proportion and the things that don't get talked about enough. There's so much, there's so many layers of distraction and bullshit in this league. To be honest, before you can actually get to the root cause of a lot of the issues that are plaguing the league and so much of it has to do with protocol, so much of it has to do with resourcing on the most important things, whether that is medical staff, training staff, and refereeing staff, refereeing protocol accountability. And also just a lot of it has to do with refereeing, it has to do with protocol, it has to do with a league that is trying to grow, but not always thinking about ways that it can do it sustainably. It's about having a 44 game season packed into a schedule that originally had 38, 36 games in it. Hopefully once we get to 50 games in the actual length of the season increases, these things go away. But there are so many systemic process related problems in the WNBA and none of them actually get addressed because everyone is always focused on the culture wars. And it is just very frustrating, honestly. Alright, speaking of which, let's shift gears to basketball. Couple really good games coming up. The fever are taken on the wings on Friday. AZFUD is now missing her fifth straight game. She was her leader in plus minus and they have fallen off a cliff without her. She is out with a knee injury and just given her history with knee injuries, it's just definitely something that you want to keep an eye on. I don't really know exactly what it is. They started off saying it was kind of like an injury or a load management abundance of caution sort of situation. And that could still very much be the case. You know, she's somebody who has been playing basketball for 10 months straight now, we're 11, 10 months straight, yeah, since you know, the college season, she played up until the final four. So she hasn't really had a break at all. So it could still very much be that. But it has been some tough sledding for them since then. She is their best point of attack defender. They certainly miss her against Minnesota. Pagebackers had a great second half against the Toronto Temple who were continuing to do a great job of doing really great stuff while also losing games, continuing my tanking agenda. For them, but Dallas has an opportunity to leap the mystics for the seventh seed. The difference between them. between like the four to eight seed right now. It's just so miniscule. I think it's gonna be the story of the last 10 games of the season. We're just gonna be doing a bunch of musical chairs with every single one of these games here. But yeah, the wings are just kind of in a tough stretch right now. They have these moments where they're front court when Jose plays a lot of key queer. She can be a little bit up and down. She shows, she's been showing more flashes. Maddie Seagrist is I think somebody just makes things happen every time she's in the court. I hope that she gets more minutes as well. But obviously the big thing with that matchup is Paige Becker's versus Caitlin Clark. Caitlin's actually lead frog page from an efficiency standpoint. And with the exception of the comeback against Toronto page as kind of taking it back seat again as the scoring fourth quarter clutch demon. I hope we get to see that version of her back. But honestly, just hoping we get a great game out of that one. And then the other one, this is the one I'm really excited for. So Las Vegas played Minnesota last week and they're playing again this Sunday. This very much looks like it could be a title preview. Type of game, it's a clash of the Titans. Fee versus Asia, that rematch. The number one player in Winchairs in Asia Wilson versus Naphisa Collier, who is number two in Winchairs for 40. I am so impressed by how quickly Fee has reclaimed the mantle as a number two player in the league. And I'm really excited to see their matchup. I want to see how Asia Wilson responds after what was her worst offensive performance of the season this past weekend. It was her lowest scoring performance or we're shooting performance of the season. And it was also her lowest game score, which measures overall impact. And I went back and watched some of that game because I wanted to get, I wanted to really get an understanding of how it was that the Minnesota banks were able to stop a player who has been essentially unstoppable all season. So there are a couple of things that I noticed. A, Naphisa Collier's pickup points on Asia Wilson were very high. For most of the season, even though Asia has improved as a three point shooter and she's initiating a lot more offense behind the three point line, I think teams have been guarding her like they are okay with letting her be comfortable there. And the Minnesota links, whether it was Fee, whether it was Nyakoffee, whether it was Natasha Howard, they weren't really doing that. They were picking her up 30 feet out. There are a lot of pokeways, hedges making her uncomfortable in places that she's used to freely operating the ball denial from Naphisa Collier was incredible. And when Asia did catch the ball, look, the help was coming from everywhere. It was coming from both nails. You had auto doubles coming when she was on the same side as Steph Talbot, but you also had a lot of moments where Jackie Young, Chelsea, Gray, Joel Lloyd were open. Asia has improved a lot as a playmaker. She had fibosists in that game as well, but she had an opportunity to get even more. She left some moments on the table where her teammates were good three point shooters, were wide open. And look, ultimately, there's no formula to stopping Asia Wilson that doesn't include doubling her heavily. I think in this instance, this is something she's used to, but Minnesota has multiple athletic bodies who can keep up with her drives. They did a really good job of reducing her visibility. But I still think that I think as she, I'm just really interested to see how she watches that tape and how she adapts to that, because there are definitely some opportunities where there is like a skip pass available in the corner, things like that where Asia, her tendency in those moments, like she wants to score, right? But, and she can't shoot over a double. Like that's the other thing. Like it's not always the best option for her to make those passes, but I think the combination of how tricky Minnesota was and the fact that they were able to get multiple bodies on her like fee, howard, neocoffee, that played a huge, huge role. So, really, really interested in that aspect of it. And then, honestly, like just, I just wanna see who produces on the bench for both of these teams. Like Minnesota's starting lineup has been absolutely bonkers since the FISA Collier has been back. They have the best net rating of any starting lineup in the eight games that she's been back. There are plus 28 per 100 possessions, which is incredible. And the second best lineup in that time, at least that lineup's that have played more than, I think, 40 or 50 minutes, is the aces when they put jewel Lloyd in the game over Stephanie Talbot. When Stephanie Talbot, who is their defensive, like kind of supposed to be a 3 and D player, but doesn't really look like she even wants to shoot the ball anymore. She just hasn't been. But when she's in the lineup, they're a very, very average plus three. The Lloyd lineup didn't perform that well against Minnesota, but I do wonder how it would look if Asia was spraying the ball out. And I'm sure we'll see that. So I'm really interested in seeing how quickly Becky Hammond goes to that. And they also just have some really interesting players coming off the bench that could be X factors for them. They obviously, they had to part ways with Kennedy Carter and then decrease their bench scoring, but Dana Evans is back from injury. And then my Yamamoto has been really, really interesting coming off the bench. She just against the mystics. She had some really nice moments. She's great at driving to the lane and drawing fouls. She just utilizes a pump fake really well. I don't think that teams really have a scouting report against her yet. So I think she's using that to her advantage. She's been on the team for eight games. I actually don't know. She was a pick up right after the all-star break. And she's shown a lot of interesting stuff. So I'm just interested in the sort of marginal stuff as well, because these are two teams that the big matchups will obviously define who wins this game, but they're two teams that have title aspirations. So you really start to think about how the marginal stuff matters at a time like this. And then on the Minnesota end, they have averaged the least amount of points off the bench since he's been back. It was always at the bottom of the league, but it's so much worse now. Nia Coffee is just not playing as much. She hasn't been in a rhythm. Maya Caldwell has been a really nice spark for them off the bench, but other than that, I just don't feel like they're getting that much. I wonder if they can get Dorka Yuhaz into a rhythm. She came back with Fee as well, but she just hasn't really-- she hasn't really seemed to have her legs under her yet. But that's the kind of stuff that you're focused on with less than 10 games left to go in the season, even Becky Hamm. And she's given Tanaealats and looks. I think it's kind of at that place where coaches know what their teams are. They're just trying to tinker and find edges where they can. So really, really excited for that game. Last thing before I talk about the Mystics and Kiki, Tyler Parker had a great article on the wringer.com about Olivia Miles and how she is already taking over the WNBA. As you guys know, I'm obviously an Olivia Miles head. You might not know that I'm a big Tyler Parker headroll. So we're going to try to get him on the pod next week to talk about the article. He's great. He's one of the most unique sports writers that we have. He's just-- I mean, to call him a sports writer would be limiting. He's a novelist. He can write about anything. And he chose to write about Olivia Miles. So if you like basketball, you're going to like that article. It was truly a treat to have Tyler Parker write about the WNBA. I was awesome. I hope we see more of it. All right. So moving on. An interview with Kiki Eriefin. The mistakes were on a seven game winning streak prior to having to face the aces twice in a row. But honestly, I was super impressed with their ability to stay in the game. I think the mistakes are just a team that is surprising everybody. Right now, they're the youngest team in the league. They get 99% of their points from their players who are 26 years old or younger. They just added Benagelini Hamilton as a veteran addition. We talk about that. We talk about their youth. We talk about this identity that they're developing is like this team that is a combination of simultaneously joyful and tough. And they have these two young budding stars in Kiki Eriefin and Sonia Citron, who dominate by being purposeful. We talk with Kiki Eriefin about this idea of production over aesthetics. And that has been a defining quality of the Washington Mystic season. They are the second worst offensive team in the league, but they are a top two or top three defense. And they get it done that way at a time when everybody else in the league is becoming obsessed with offense. I'm very interested to see how that shakes out in the postseason. They're really fun to watch. They're only going to get better. And I just really enjoyed talking to Kiki, who I think is as good as any of the young bigs in the league. I think she suffers from not being incredibly overhyped as a college prospect. These things kind of tend to follow you. She goes a little bit under the radar. I think it's also because she's not the flashiest player. She had basically two game winners in a row in June. And it just-- it never really got picked up the way that it should have. I look, I think she's fine with that. But she's just someone who I think deserves a little bit more shine. And I had a really good time talking to her. So we'll take a break and that interview is coming up next. Welcome back to the Ringer WNBA show. I'm Seret Sohee as always. And I'm joined today by a wonderful guest, Kiki Okikeola, a Furio fan. She was the number four pick in the 2025 draft. She's a two-time all-star, one of the best young pigs in the game. In fact, one of the pigs that I think is pushing the position to a newer, more modern level. I love her game. It's simple. It's ferocious. It's purposeful. It's effective. And she is a cornerstone for the Washington Mystics where seven and one in their last eight games. And despite being one of the youngest teams in the league, maybe the youngest team in the league, they're also one of the toughest. So really excited to have this conversation. Kiki, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Thanks for being here. I appreciate it. How do I do with your name? Did I get it right? OK, great, that was great. OK, that's great. OK, so I actually wanted to start there. So I remember on draft night, it was really important to you to you made a point of going by Okikiyola, which is your full name on draft night. I was just wondering what went behind that. Yeah, so my full name Okikiyola means famous well. And it's in the language of Yoruba and Nigerian language. And my parents have always believed like you name your children something that you want them to become. Like you speak Latin to their future. But draft night was one of the biggest nights of my life. And I was like, this is how I'm going to be introduced to the W world in my professional world. So I want everyone to know my full name. And obviously, Kiki, you're going to hear that multiple times. But it's such a huge moment. I was also wearing an Nigerian traditional inspired dress. So it was just like, it made the perfect sense to go by Okikiyola and Kathy's that it perfectly, too. And it was super surreal. Super pure. For someone who-- because I watched you at Stanford, I watched you at USC for somebody who has perpetually had their name butchered. I'm glad that people finally are getting it right. That's fine. I have a name that gets butchered all the time, too. So I was like, I have to get this right. Yes, I'm going to. I read that. Your name is also traditionally one that's more masculine. But your parents gave it to you anyways. Is that a way of could I be reading into what their expectations were for you? Or just kind of like the expansive like the hope that they had for your future? I would say so name Okikiyola is traditionally a male name. But my dad was like, no matter what gender my first child is, they're going to be named Okikiyola. Yeah. And to be a girl. So I don't know what the name but it's so crazy to me because now I'm like, I can't even imagine a guy with that name. Like, Kiki Okikiyola just seems so girly. But I guess I'm transforming that and taking out the gender stereotypes and everything with that. I don't know if my parents were more masculine, but definitely the intention of famous wealth. We want her to be someone that this is something that could be in her future. I feel like on that path a little bit. So they did a good job with that for sure. Yeah, do you ever think about the fact that they kind of did manifest it like all of that has kind of come true for you and is coming true for you? Definitely my rookie year. I'm like, what is my life? There's so much that had happened and it happened so quickly. And I'm like, I can't believe where I'm at. And the things that you dream about, you're like, you're getting closer and they feel more real. You dream about it in college, in high school. But it's like, it's coming. And not stepping into a dream. And obviously, you have so many more goals that I want to achieve. But it's like, there's just that much closer. So like, an epiphany wake up like kind of a gratefulness moment in my rookie year. Just like, wow, I can't believe this is my life. Yeah, that's so cool. That's so cool. Especially like having a rookie season where you came in and you immediately made an impact too. And I remember, I remember feeling around the draft time that you were somebody that we had known for a long time. And I almost felt like your game was like, really analyze more through its flaws than your strengths when you were in college. And just from seeing how you are-- we obviously, this is the first time we're speaking, but you do seem like somebody who is very confident and grounded in who you are. But I was wondering if back when you were younger, that ever impacted you. Yes, it did. I can even just say, my senior year going into the draft. I heard everything, every comment, every opinion. So they're definitely doubt creeped in. I will give a shout out to my support system for always pouring into me and speaking life into me. But there was doubt, can I do this at the next level? And even my senior year, when I look back, I'm like, I average almost double double. I average 18 and 9. But in the moment, I'm like dang, I don't know if I'm not good. But I think, honestly, I'm grateful for that, because when you go to the polls, you're even on a bigger stage. You're even more than eyes. But because I was able to navigate that, now when it happens, I'm OK. I don't use Twitter at all. I don't read comments. I mean, I'm going to navigate things much easier. So I'm actually grateful for that time, because it has definitely prepared me for the influx of more eyeballs and opinions on level. That makes sense. Who was it in your support system? Or what did they say that really helped you around that time? Oh my gosh. My parents, they were amazing. And my mom is so-- she's like, this is my baby. I don't want anyone to say anything about my mom. It's going to happen. So you've got to just have to do what it is. But my parents are just really great about just speaking life into me. And they're like, you've worked so hard to get to this moment. One game, one play doesn't define who you are or your career. You have an opportunity to always rewrite your story. It's not set in stone. And then something that was really important for me, I've always spoken about this. Pretty often when I was at Stanford, but basketball for me is like 90, if not 99% mental, and 10, if not 1% physical. So my mind has been something that I've really invested in. So going into the W, my parents helped me find a mental performance coach. And at the Mystics, we have one that's on staff. But it was really important for me to have my own person. Any Becking call, I can call them, I can speak to them. So that was something that was really crucial for me before going to the W was just having a mental performance coach so that in those moments, sometimes games are high pressure. How may be able to be able to rise to the occasion. Sometimes the outside noise is getting too loud. How do I navigate that? So my circle really consists of like my parents, my close family and friends, and then my mental performance coach's name is David Alamey, and he's been great and just making sure my mind is in a great spot. What are some things that he's saying to you these days? What's resonating in your guys' talks? Yeah, the biggest thing is just presence. Being where my feet are, it's really easy to get caught up in the future. We're making a playoff push, but we're not in the playoffs right now. So it's like you were your feet are in this moment in the now. I had a problem of thinking about past mistakes and plays in the game, and he's like, that's only going to make you create more mistakes, because you're not focused on this present moment. So that's something that we work on a lot is just like, how can I recent your myself to be where my two feet are? And then we do a lot of breath work and imagery. And I feel like people think it's like, it's not a big thing, but breathing is so underrated. Like you can do that anytime, any place doesn't matter what's going on. You can always, like we're always breathing, but intentionally breathing, like that's such a great way to recenter yourself. And honestly, calm you down, when maybe you're a little frantic or kind of all over the place. It's absolutely huge. I was literally doing breath work last night, like it's huge. It's like, yeah, especially. I mean, you're, you spend a lot of time in California, and a lot of people think that like it's super woo, out here, but it's true. It works. It all works. That's great. So you had a couple of games this season where you have been amazing in high pressure moments. I remember in June, you had a go-ahead layup from a pass from Sonya Citron against the New York Liberty. And then I think just the game after you hit one of the biggest shots of the game, and you were actually, it was like, you were the one that was set up for it after the time out. You got to post up against the Minnesota links. After, you know, we don't have to get into it. If you don't want it, you want to. But it seemed like a living a mile's kind of riled you up there a little bit. Did that-- when you're in moments like that, are you actively recentering yourself? Are you thinking about the things that your mental performance coach said to you? Like, can I take me through those moments? Yeah, one, I want to clear the air. Live and I are cool. We talked about it at all start. I'm like, do we got beef? She's like, we got four beef, but amazing. She's playing so well in her rookie year, and I'm really excited and happy for her, but we are all good on our end. But in those moments, I think it's like, you remember, this is what you dream about. This is what you practice and prepare for. I am more than capable. I have more than prepared. So I wasn't thinking about, oh, do I miss it? Do I make it? It was like, this is the one objective. It just happens that it's kind of like an important moment of the game, like I've done this 100 million times. So kind of just, again, breathing. I know the play. My coaches have confidence in me. My teammates have confidence in me. This is what I get paid to do. So let me go and get a bug in the post. I would say the New York game was when I was like, OK, I can do this. I've had moments before, but it was like playing Stewie and JJ, who are going to be Hall of Famers. They're incredible. I don't think the mistakes we had be in the New York Liberty in years. So that was like a huge game for us, and that was my first game coming back from injury. So just a lot of emotions. And we really wanted to win. And I think that's the thing that you've seen with my team the whole season. Some games is me, some games are Sony. A lot of games just keep your eye out. - We have a lot of games to keep your eye out. We have Cody, we have so many people that are coming in and just taking over the game. So, that was my time, my moment, so I just want to have one opportunity. I love that. I love that. Who's a person on the team where, I know you are so effervescent, but nobody's like that every day. Who's a person on the team that is, if you're not in that type of mood, who brings you up? Honestly, I think all my teammates do a great job of just like, everybody, you can't really have a mad or bad day in that locker room. Like, someone's going to cheer you up, whether you like it or not. But I would say like, my little squad that we got drafted together, Georgia and Sonia, we spent a lot of time together, so I think we're really great at reading each other. You know, sometimes you're not having the greatest day, but you still show up because you have to show up for the team, but I'm always able to notice something's going on with Sonia or Georgia, and vice versa. They always know something's wrong with me, and you know, I still try to be that bubbly person for the team, that energizer bunny, which we need, but sometimes you do need a battery in your back. You need your cup, so I think those two do a great job of lifting me up. You guys do seem to have a lot of players who are of that ilk. Like, I look at you guys, obviously, you guys have your TikToks and stuff like you guys have, I mean, even Sydney Johnson is getting into it as well. I feel like you're cringing a little bit. What is that? What has that been like, just to have a coach who's like getting like, are you guys teaching him the dance? Is he coming and knowing them? Like, what is going on there? I always say this coach said is a dad coach, and that is not a negative term. I think it's a great thing. You know, we're, I think we have Laney now, so I don't know if we're still the youngest team, the league, but the youngest team in the league. So we're a lot of us are his daughter's age. He has a two daughter son. So it's like he's, he has his kid at home, and then he comes to work and he has more kids. Yeah. It really just feels like he's a dad coach. We do not teach him any of that stuff. I'm pretty sure it's his kids that have taught him. Okay. Bubas, the jump, like, he has a mind of his own. He's a grown man, but he really leans into this, and I think it's been great as a team like we're young, we're competing and, you know, we'll do anything for our coach. Like, you can really feel like one will do anything for each other. We'll run through a football ball, but like a coach like coach Sid, he makes so much life into all of us. He pours us. He wants to know who we are as people more than a basketball player. When you have a person like that, like he's still honest, but he loves and supports us so much, you're like, I'll do anything for him. So then to see him come in and be like, okay, y'all one, you do what we need it to do. Let me lighten the mood a little bit. Like, we always laugh and like cringe out a little bit, but yeah, we love it. I love that. Do you think he, do you think he like kind of in that very dad way does things on purpose to make you guys cringe sometimes? Sure, for sure. What's the time that he has, um, breathed life into you? Oh, honestly, I would say the biggest time has been when I was out for injury this season. Like, never in my life have I had to miss games for an injury, let alone in my professional career, and I'm thinking like, oh my gosh, like I can't believe I'm not going to play. But during my whole return to play process, like he was just like kiki, like you're more than capable. Like we're not worried at all. Like kind of, we're so confident in you. And then when I came back, he was like, exactly, we are so confident. Like, yeah, there's never a doubt in our mind. And even through ups and downs of the season, like it's my second year, people will scout, like they know who I am now. It's not like you are your surprise, like ups and downs of the season, like always talking to me. He's like, how are you doing? Like you are more than fine. Like some games, it looks great. Some games is a work in progress, but he has never given up on me regardless of what it's look like on the court. So just having a coach who like is like, no, like you are more than capable to play at this level. There's so much more that you can do. Like it allows me to play with a lot of freedom when I'm on the court too. That's awesome. That's awesome. You also have a great position coach in Barbara Turner as well. I was listening to an interview that you did. And I can't remember the interviewer's name. So make sure that I showed them out at the start of the show. But you talked about the idea of production over aesthetics that you guys talk about. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah. Shout out Barbara Turner. She has been amazing from the moment that I got to the mystics. She is really big on making the most out of any situation. So sometimes things are going to go your way. Sometimes things aren't. You can only control what you can control. And this is what I say about my second season is like, you're on the scouting report now. Like things are not going to be easy. You have to make adjustments. And sometimes you know, I want to do my flashy like turn around jumper side step. But the easy basket is go to the basket or maybe rebound and get an offensive board and get points that way. We have so many big hitters on our team who can anybody can peek over the game and score. So the ball's not always going to be in my hands. So like controlling what you can control. I am one of the best rebounders in the league. I know I can go get a rebound. I know I can get an offensive board. So doing that and maybe that's how I'm able to produce even though I'm not looking at the flashiest like you're still producing at a high level. So that's something that she really instilled in me this year. And she said it's going to take me very far. Like obviously I have dreams of playing on the Olympic team one day. And that's a team where it's a team of superstars. But sometimes you have to fit into a role. So just like you're like learning those things now is only going to help me for the rest of my career. But he has just been like sometimes the little things are more impactful than the flashy things. Yeah. Yeah. What are your highest impression? Like like what like, I'm sorry. Like what's what what are your highest aspirations as a basketball player? Like I know you mentioned sort of a visualization thing. Like do you think about like where you are and what you've achieved in five years? Oh, I feel like five years is tough because how far do you go? I guess with it. No, I think five, like it's tough. But like I think there's so much I can accomplish in five years. Like only in my second season. And I just feel like even going into next year, my jump is going to be huge. Like the player that I'm going to be going into next year because I've had two seasons under my belt. I've had an off seat. So I know exactly what I want. My off seat into look like it's only going to be better. You see our team right now people didn't think we're going to be like this is like, oh, maybe next year. And they're already doing we're on a quest for playoffs. We're going to make the playoffs. So then next year, I'm like, I want to win the championship. And it's my third year. And you might be like, but I really believe that we can do that. So for me, like my aspirations for my career is like, I want to be MVP one day. I want to be a world champion multiple world champions. I want to make the Olympic team for Team USA. I like anything you can think about, like, I want that. And the overarching thing for me is consistency. The way that you get to that is being consistent. And that happens in practice, like practice in the Olympics and practicing like an MVP versus like thinking about potential and like, oh, it's going to happen. Like, I got to start practicing like that now. And then it'll happen versus saying, like, oh, next year or the next year. So that's it for me. What are some things that you've picked up off of the best bigs in the league? Honestly, I will say in terms of like things I've picked up, it actually happened at Unrivaled with Kelsey Plum. And I know she's not a big. But one thing I love about Kelsey is how intentional she is about her work. Like, that's why she's one of the best of the best. She comes in like an hour before is working on her body, doing everything. Then we have practice. Then she stays after practice. She's shooting. And then she's working on her body. Like, that was something I learned that is super important just your body. Like, I want to have a long career. Like, my body's going to be my biggest investment. I think, you know, when you're young, like, I don't really want to stretch. I want to just get on the full and play practice. I'm like, okay, I want to go home. So all those like recovery things are things that I really took from KP. And she was the best player in our team. And she was the hardest worker. And she was there first and the last person to leave. So that kind of mindset is something that I took from her. And I was like, wow, like, to be the best, like, it takes a lot of work. And she was someone that was so great about, like, holding herself accountable. Like, she could have been, like, I'm Kelsey Plum. No, she was like, Keeks, what do you see? Like, is there something that you're not liking that I'm doing? Or am I not feeding? I'm like, oh, shoot. Dang. Like, yeah, you're going to sleep alone. Same way, like, who am I to be like, oh, you can't tell me? I'm like, no, like, I should be able to hold myself accountable and no matter the level that I play. Yeah, that's, that's amazing. Kelsey obviously was an LA for a while. So I watched her, I was mesmerized by her pregame routine. Like, all of the elastic band work, like the flexibility stretches. You can tell she's so deeply focused in what she's doing. It's really incredible. And it's great that you're doing that at such a young age. That's so awesome. What is, have you taken that? Because like, you are kind of like, you're only a second-year player, but you're also sort of a veteran leader on this team. Like, you guys had so many rookies come in, you're reunited with your former teammate, or in bed. I know you looked at me, like, oh, my God, I'm not a veteran leader. But like, in a way, you kind of are like, have you taken things like Kelsey was kind of helping you with or just even giving you that space to like tell her what what you need from her? Is that stuff that you're applying now? Yeah, I would say that whole team. So I'm right, but I was the youngest on the team. We had Natasha Cloud, Tiffany Hayes, Dana Evans, Lea Boston, and Kelsey Plum. So I was like, baby goes. That's what they call me on the team. And they pushed me to be vocal. They would ask me, what do you think, cakes? Like, what? And I'm like, oh, I thought I was just going to be here and be like, okay, I hear what you guys are saying. So I would say that experience really prepared me for now. Like, I was able to talk to these players and work on my leadership and just being vocal. So coming to the mistakes, I definitely was really adamant about that. And my coaches as well here at NDC, they're like, you're going to have have to be a leader this year. And leadership looks different for everybody, but they're like, we need to hear your voice. So that was something definitely in training camp. I was really working on using my voice, and now I feel like I've kind of gotten like, where I'm speaking, like we have Shakira, we have Makayla, now we have Laney as well. Tony, Georgia, there's so many voices that are really important, and it can be kind of overwhelming when everybody's like, on top of each other, talking to each other. I'm sorry, I've been on my pockets, my windows, so when I'm speaking largely to the group, and then also when it's a good idea to pull maybe people someone to the side and like, just talk through something. So it's been definitely a work in progress for me, but definitely making the right stride. - Okay, wait, I just realized your guy's this team huddle is probably like when the girls finally get together, like the group chat, like it's brunch or something. - A lot of voices. - Yeah, that's so funny. What if you're early impressions of Benagelini Hamilton, Ben? - She's amazing. I've always heard positive things about her in the league, and we haven't really played against each other 'cause we're different positions, but I've always heard great things about her. So when I heard that we got her, I was really excited because again, as we're making this playoff push, I think it's really important to have someone who has done it, someone who has been in those moments, and she's gonna be able to talk to us, and maybe calm us down and let us understand that, you know, maybe if this is the possession where we slow it down versus going super fast, and even like, she's been with those two three days, she's been amazing. Like yesterday was her first game with us, but the game before that, we played, ooh, I'm forgetting who we played, but we played at home. - Feelings? - Yes, feelings at home. - And she, those are our first day meeting her, and her voice was impactful. Like, everything that she's like, wow. Like, that makes a lot of sense. I think she's spinning right in, and was definitely a piece that we needed for this team, and I'm excited to get to know her more and play with her even more, but I'm really excited that we have her. - I love that she led your guys to huddle that game, despite the fact that she wasn't playing. What did she say? - She was just kind of talking about, we had to lead against Phoenix, and I think in the third quarter, like maybe 20 points or something, and we started to break away, and she was like, in playoffs, this might happen. And we have to be able to still do the right things, even though we have a large lead. Like, it's easy to be like, oh, we're up by 20. Let me start messing around, but she's like, no, like, this is important. So in this moment, we're learning how to keep a lead. Like, there's been games this season where we had a lead and we lost it. So she's like, these are the moments that, we need to hone down even more on the details and the right things, and we're obviously playing a lot of different mixes and lineups and people. So she's like, fun, like, take advantage of your opportunity, but too, like, think of everything as the bigger picture. Like, rather than like, okay. - Yeah. - Yeah, mine really quickly. We're up by 20, like, this is going to happen in the playoffs, and we want to make sure that the execution keep leads. - That's one thing I find so impressive about your team, like Sidney Johnson, has you guys obviously playing incredible defense, but you also go through so many different defensive schemes. In a game, like, I remember, I think it was maybe the Valkyrie's game. I can't remember which one, but you guys went from playing zone to then, like, playing a switching lineup immediately. And, like, you know, you guys are all very young. You are very important defensively to this team, especially, like, on the perimeter as a player who can, like, switch on to smaller matchups and things like that. What is the process of just being able to prepare for all the different things that he is going to throw at you, like? - I think that's an area that we've improved on, like, early on. There's all these schemes, and we're like, huh? Like, we can only tell you about one thing. - Right. - How you can see, like, he's very comfortable, like, okay, we're going to go zone. We're going to go switching one through four, then we're going to go hedging and then trap, like, and we're all ready for it. We're like, okay, yes, we can do it. There might be things that we didn't practice, and you can throw it in the game, and we feel comfortable to do it. So, I would say that's an area of growth that we've had this season, but something that we always talk about is, like, our defense is something that we can always rely on. There's days that our offense is all over the place, like, we don't know what we're doing, or we're kind of just not on the floor, or not hitting shots, but regardless, if our defense, if we travel with that, if we show up every day with defense, we always give ourself a chance, because I think we're maybe top three, and, like, half court defenses, like, we're really hard to play against in the half court. So, that's something that we have really honed in on, 'cause we can always rely on our defensive effort. - Yeah, that's, no, for sure. I mean, you guys are kind of zegging when the rest of the league is really focusing on offense, and I'm super curious to see how that plays out in the postseason, like, maybe teams just won't be, like, once, once, like, you guys kind of softened, like, maybe they won't be able to, like, stay in their identity, but you'll be in yours. I'm very curious to see how that goes. You've also, but on the offensive end, you've also expanded your range. I'm curious how that's opened up your game. - I think it's just the confidence to take threes now. Last season, I wouldn't even look at the basket. (laughs) Last season, it was, like, three, two, one. Shoot it. - Yeah. - But this year, it was definitely a point of ethicists, for me, with Coach Barb, in the offseason, was, like, half to shoot threes. Like, you have to at least take one and look at it. And we're not even talking about makes. It's just taking, and obviously, as we continue to get calm and prove, it's gonna be, okay, we need to make two a game. We need to make three. But that was something that she was like, if you have this, you know, these dreams for your career, you have to be able to stretch the four. Like, we see something like, Asia, like, I just played her last night, and she's hitting threes at a high clip. Alia Boston. - What do you do? (laughs) - I think Alia Boston is the leading 3.0 percentage. - Yeah, she is, yeah. - You have thought that, like, things like that, like, that's where the game is going. Like, you see all the bigs doing, like, doing that. So, I want to, you know, see success like they are, or like, I have these dreams, like, that's gonna be a part of the challenge, is like, stretching my game, making defenses, play honest, they can't sag off of me. And by that, it doesn't just help my game, it helps the whole team, 'cause they can't have paint. It gives me space for other post-players, it gives more space for guards to drive in. So, when I thought about it like that, I'm like, I'm gonna have to go through the growing pains this year. - Mm-hmm. - But, when I get on the other side, it's gonna be like, oh, I'm so glad I started working on this early in my career. - That's awesome. - My last thing I wanted to ask you about is I read that your major in college was design and mechanical engineering. - Wow. - As if majoring in basketball wasn't enough. And then you also did your masters in entrepreneurship and innovation. Where did that interest come from? - Well, I'm Nigerian. So, if you know anything about Africans, it's always lawyer, doctor, engineer. - You better get that education. - Yeah, I kind of instilled that into you. My parents didn't really have to force it 'cause I was always interested in STEM. I wanted to be a doctor. And then I was like, okay, I don't really know if I could take these classes. So then I was like, okay, let me do engineering. And I really fell in love with it. Like, since I was a kid, I always built random things. I would go on YouTube, search up stuff. And like, one time I build like a human size operation game. And I went to Home Depot and I bought all the wires and that. - Oh my God. - What? - And I would just do that for fun. So I always knew that was kind of in the back of my mind. And when I got to Stanford, I actually started computer science. But it just didn't work with like basketball on classes. So mechanical engineering had more options for me to do. So once I like to go my first class with design and mechanical, I was like, oh, this is so fun. I think about I can just build it. And I had great professors. And even to this day, like I'm so in touch with them, they come to my games when I play the Valkyries in the Bay. And I think that's super special. But it was something I'm glad it was like a major that I actually fell in love with. It wasn't something that I was forced into. But yeah, I think just thinking about something and being able to build it, like that's so cool. It's like, I can just build it if I wanted to. - That is so cool. Are you still doing anything like that? - No, like I don't really have time with stuff. But definitely in the offseason, like I want to use my degrees to some capacity. So even my masters and my undergrad, like I don't know what exactly I want to do. But down in the offseason, kind of taking steps towards that. - Yeah, that'd be cool. I'm excited to see what that brings out for you. - Yeah, wait, sorry. - Last last question, actually. I have to ask, you met Barack Obama. - What? - President Barack Obama, 44, like you said, you guys are both 44. What was that like? I don't even have words for you right now. - It was like, I'm never fan-girled over anybody and I was like, oh my gosh. And I knew we were gonna meet him. But the fact that he was actually there, I'm like, this is not real, it's a dream. And I'm like, this might be the only time I ever meet him, President Obama. So I want to say something to him greater than just like, hi, I'm Keke. And he's like, oh, hi, nice to meet you and move on. So I was thinking the whole time, like, okay, what can I say? I want him to remember something about me. Yeah, I thought I'm like, okay, I'm 44, he's number 44. So even if he doesn't remember my name, he's like, oh, this is the 44 girl. So I say it and he's like, oh, it's a great number. I'm like, I guess it is. And if you watch the video, I'm really quite I didn't think about this thing after that. I'm like, oh, he's getting like this, like, yes, one hand, I'm like. And I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh my, but that was, that was the highlight of All Star Weekend. That was like the highlight of my life. Like, he's so swaggy, so much aura. Like, he walks in, collar, pop, button, undone. Like, he's like, what's up, ladies? I'm like, wow, like you are, or at times one million. So, amazing, amazing. Oh my God, that shine just has to stay with you for a couple of days after that. So cool, so cool. Well, I mean, hey, you play in Washington. He obviously has some roots there. Maybe he'll come to a game at some point. On Griff Cross, that would be really cool. It would be cool. Kiki, thank you so much for making the time. Good luck with the final stretch of the season. I know you guys aren't technically a playoff team for sure yet, but I do wish you luck in your hopefully your first postseason. Really, really interested to see what kind of noise you guys can make. But yes, very much looking forward to it. And I loved having this conversation with you. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you to Kiki, you've been for making the time. Thank you to Stephane Anderson for producing. And we will be back next week. (upbeat music)