Khloé, Jen Atkin & the Stories You’ve Never Heard

And they always say like your hair stylist is like your therapist. What are you looking at on this side of my face? What do you have one piece of hair that's driving me nuts? Can I just say something? Jen, I've known you for decades at this point. You're so talented. How did you even know you can do the things you do? I studied people. So you don't have a license and I've let you cut my hair? How have we never talked about this? You guys were the first to ever, ever, ever shout out your glam team, because no one would even acknowledge that this is like hours and hours of a facade. I didn't really drink until I was much older. Then I've discovered gay men. Is this too short? Can you see my vagina? Jen was one of the people who lost her home in the Palisades Fire. Who offered for us to come and stay at your house. OK, well, that was ridiculously weird. You were that worried about me. Find a friend that can just dish it and take it, because it is just the best. How long is this? As long as it's good, peace begins with me. Peace begins with me. I love you. I love you. That's it. Can I go home? Yeah! Can I go home? Yeah! Can I go home? Yeah! Can I go home? Yeah! Can I go home? Yeah! This is what it takes to see you. I know. Or, drunk in behavior on Saturday night. Should we just make this episode about all the things that happened at your mom's birthday party? We really should. So, just for context, I know this is going to air in January, but we are still drunk. We're still drunk. We're still drunk. Our mom. My mom's birthday was. Our mom. Our mom's birthday was two days ago. She'll adopt you. So we're both older and we're still paying the price of. I'm going to tell you, I was. Okay, it was Saturday night. We're shooting this on Monday. I slept 10 hours yesterday. I had to get a night V-drip. It was a night of all nights. But you know what? Her Gatsby party was her 60th, yeah. And that's. You were there? No, but do you remember that party? Do you remember you at that party? Okay. Well, remember you on stage. I was fucked up at that party. You were the best. I still love the video that's online where me and Courtney are fighting over the game and the background of who was singing, Charlie Wilson and Romeo, and we're fighting in the background. Well, you just went on stage and you were like trying to take the mic from Charlie Wilson thing. I was at time. Well, I was very, very drunk. And that's because I was in the hospital with Lamar for like months and it was my first time free. Was it a staff infection time? Yeah, that was. Thank you. Oh my god. Wow. A lot of gems. You're drunk. Yeah. No, no, no. It's been a life. No point. I mean, years and years. And so thank you for gracing us with your presence on the pod. So the first time I worked with you was November 1st. No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. 12. No. How did you call that picture last night? Because I was just reminiscing and I was trying to remember like all the time with the first time I met you. I do. You were just telling me how bad your memory is. It was on an airplane and you were going to Miami to do Kim's hair for a Cosmo shoot. And I was on the plane traveling, too. Yes. And you had your glam squad with you, right? I don't remember. I just remember. I remember being in business class and being excited about it. And I remember seeing you. And I, I just never to understand you weren't that famous then. You were pseudo famous. Okay. Like I knew you when you were like broke. Yeah. You did. But I met you on that people magazine shoot that I forgot I did. Remember I, when you guys were the single ladies, when oh my god. I still remember that. And I did court. Oh, you did court. I don't remember that, but I remember the single ladies shoot and the Cosmo shoot. Okay. And I finished telling the story. So the Cosmo shoot. I was there. Did you Kim who I didn't know? Yeah. And I felt like I don't even know what got me there. I don't even know if I was like, I was maybe doing Sophia Vagara at the time. And so my agent was like, there's this Cosmo shoot. You have to like go in and out. And then we met and I just like loved you. And I really didn't even know you. But I was like, this bitch is funny. No, you and I together. And we connected. Yeah. And then you wrote me the sweetest note. Remember that? No. I have it. No, you don't. I'm kidding. But you wrote me the sweetest note. And you were like, I'm doing the single X factor. I'm going to be like my first hosting job. Oh. And I would be so honored. You said something. You were so sweet. You were really used to be. I used to be so sweet. And then my life, you know, got ruined. Yeah. It did. I was speaking of your life getting ruined. No. I do. I know you've told your story about, but I do think it's interesting to people because you're from you. Oh, you're from Hawaii. But then you are from Utah really. How did a Mormon girl from Utah end up in California doing the job that you do? Okay. So I go up very religious, but my parents were kind of cool. Like we'd watch SNL and so you were like, I was like, no, no, are you kidding me now? It's crazy. I didn't drink in high school. No one partied. It was very like Aussie and Harriet like, I don't know, little house in the prairie. Like we did not party. Not what your photos show. Well, then, okay, I've discovered gay men, yeah. And drugs. No, I'm just kidding. So I grew up kind of conservative and we were very like what I think about the Mormon church. I left it at 19 to come to LA with my best friend. But when I think about it, it gave me such strong morals. Like I really grew up doing volunteer service. You're constantly working on like yourself and your goals and you're just trying to like put good into the world. So I do appreciate that part of it. And I left the church. I left like a boyfriend I was supposed to get married to had $300 in a Honda Civic catchback and came to LA with my best friend. We slept on couches and I worked at a salon just to kind of like, I knew I wanted to do something creative. And I really like in high school would cut my own hair and cut my friend's hair. And I just didn't even know it could like actually be a career. But I was like, that's the only thing I really know how to do. And so I started out as a receptionist, a salon manager, weirdly like, Chris McMillan was like a really big deal. He had done like Jennifer Aniston's haircut. He was like the household name. Yeah. But there were no women for me to really like look up to like Sally Hershberger. Right. Really big career. And I'd like read about her and magazines. But I came here in 2000. So my God. That's crazy. Yeah. Almost 26 years ago. Like pre social media, you'd have to go in a lower magazine to like see what the cool salons were to go to. Right. So I would do that. And I would walk to those salons and try to get a job and they were like, you're such a loser. Get out of here. People don't do that anymore. No. No. But call me a loser. Yeah. Yeah. They do. But I really just wanted to learn about the business of hair. And so I worked as a manager. I saw all these amazing creative stylists who, oh my God. And at the time, I got to like feed bet midler's meter and like, when all the rider would come in. That many more. He would come in. I met Jessica Alba back then. And I was like, just a kid, new no one here. And I was like, if this is all I do, I'm done. This is amazing. And I'll go back to Utah and just live with my parents. And then I realized like so many of these creatives were not super responsible with their money. This is the time of like, I don't know, LA was just bustling and it was so fun to go out. And so I honestly growing up, I never like knew a Jewish person. I never knew like a black person. I never knew a gay person. It's very, very like culture shock little bubble. Yeah. So when I came to LA, I was like, oh my God. I learned so much about just people and cultures and art and music. And I really feel like I got to like wake up and was like, in my own skin finally, like I got to just like lose the judgment of other people and just really like dive into LA. It's gone by so fast. I remember getting booked to like assist people in the salon. And that was like so exciting to me. I got, I couldn't afford hair school. I couldn't afford it. I was like, how did you like, you're so talented. Well, I wasn't talented. I studied people. I like sat there and watched every salon, like hair cutter and all the colors. I'd watch everybody to see how they work. So you don't have a license and I've let you cut my hair at this old time. Right. No. So you're going to love this story. I'm scared. I just assumed you like went to school. I thought that you'd ask me any questions about myself over 13 years. And this is the next time. I'm like terrified. So I couldn't afford hair school. So I did an apprenticeship program at like an adult occupational center downtown LA. You don't know what that is. But it's like you go there and get like a license to be like a plumber. And they had a cosmology program. Okay. So I would go and work in the salon three days a week. I would go to school the other days and then I would work at night as a hostess at Luna Park, right? It happened to you. So many bartenders and energy. Oh my god. So fun. Sorry. We're never going to get through this podcast. So I would let's see what I did. I went to this this hair school adult occupational center and I got my license that way by like apprenticing. So I did get my license. Oh, good. And then I started assisting really great stylist on set. And then I got booked to do all the dancers on Madonna's tour and that was my first. That's like a major first. Yeah. I was a first time as 26 and I got to go all over the world. But what did your parents think? Because your parents are Mormon. still in Utah and what did they think when their daughter is now leaving to go to scary California? I mean so scared. Now as a mom, I can't believe they let me go. Were they mad that you stopped Mormonism? Yes, I mean it's a whole thing. Like, did you ever have Mormon friends? No, I've learned about being Mormon really on real housewives of Salt Lake City. I don't know much about it. No, I mean I know when you would joke about Mormon stuff and play, but that would really be it. I never had a lot of Mormon friends. Interesting. Yeah, I mean this is the thing. The Mormon Church teaches you that if you're not like obedient and worthy of like your temple recommend, which means like there's a lot of rules that you will not live with your family for all time and eternity in the celestial kingdom. Oh, yeah, that's a little bit of pressure. Yeah, so you know they were like scared for sure. I think they thought I was going to either be like a drug addict or like a prostitute and they didn't understand that like the world isn't as scary as we think it is. I mean it is now, but that was fun. No, seriously. Yeah, they were like, I think they were also really proud of me. I've always had, I'm similar to you. Like our dads were very similar and like we had to sign contracts very young. I always joke. I was like paying a mortgage by the time I was 12. Like I always had a job. I always had a purpose. I was always taught that you know the world didn't own me anything that I needed to work for the things that I really wanted. And I hated my parents for that at times because like I didn't get the cute cars that my friends got and you know it was hard in high school. But as an adult like I am so grateful for it. I feel the same. All the things that my dad was so strict about or like the bougie things like no, we didn't like all of our friends had like credit cards or like allowances. And my dad was like an allowance for what? Go get a job and that's your allowance. Like and I didn't understand it. Then I love that he did that for us. Like we had to work all the time and I loved it. I also think like don't you think you've been working forever? Yeah. Like I've been working since I was 16, 15, but it teaches you so much. So much. And I felt like adulthood didn't shock me. I didn't feel like. Yeah, I felt like oh this is just my next step. This is my next purpose. This is my next thing to do. And I made a bit Chloe. Honestly we worked so hard and we worked so hard for so long that like it's been a long time. It's been a long time but also it's the only way to like get all of these amazing like bussings in your life and totally. Yeah. At the time, like there weren't celebrity lines. Like there weren't people like it was still like Lori Ellen Revlon. Do you know what I mean? There's just like the big powerhouse companies. And then you branch out and you have the idea. I'm going to start my own hair product line. Like what gave you that confidence to do that? I think it sides me. Well, it was you. I was the hands and you were the loudmouth. That's why I have a career. I feel like we were all just in this moment of Instagram just kind of peaking because I met you in 2012 and that's when Instagram came out. That's what I mean. Like you weren't like you were famous, but you weren't like famous famous. What year did you start the show? Oh, seven. Oh shoot, you were more famous than I think you were. I don't care. Well, I you've never seen me for me. I've always just seen you for you. Okay, you guys know this about me. I'm a creature of habit. I love my routines. I love my rituals. And nothing makes me happier than starting my day with my Starbucks moment. 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Weight Watchers has supported tens of millions of members and it shows. This is your sign to join Weight Watchers.com today. Use Code Chloe for an extra 20% off your first month of membership. That's an extra 20% off your first month at Weight Watchers.com with Code Chloe. Offer applies to select plans. Restrictions apply. Offer ends May 31st, 2026. 2012. Instagram had just come out and I feel like we were all kind of in this moment of learning how to like use it for business and not just first. It definitely was like a Tumblr page. No one had there was no influencers. There was no aesthetic pages. You just posted like your cup. You posted this not you. Anyone would post the strangest of things. Or we would post like being in the beach on set in the office for the day. Like so stupid. I think that part of me felt like, oh my god, I've always loved marketing. Like always. I've just been obsessed with the way that like branding looks. I love like I'm such a pop culture junkie that I remember like what Hello Kitty made me feel like. I remember like the gap back in the day. I remember just like I loved branding. And so I felt at the time like I had no idea I was going to have a line. I mean I started thinking of the idea in 2014 when I was really working with you. I don't even know if you remember this. We were on set. And we, I think you were doing interviews. And I had a call with and there that team I think like I was pitching them the idea of a digitally connected haircare brand. And I was so excited about it. And like it's going to be the first of its kind where you really are talking to your customers. And like it hadn't happened yet. Glossier had launched that same year. And I was like I just think it'd be really good idea. And I remember being on the phone with him and you were telling me to hang up because he told me that's a great idea. You're not famous enough. And it's not going to work. Call us back in five years. See. Fuck you. RIP. And literally like we beat them. Like we were on the same shelf within three years that they were. And like we beat them in sales in probably five years. But I remember you telling me you were like. Well, yeah, I don't let people talk to us like that. Yeah, sorry. But that really put fuel like in my tank. I was like I'm going to prove them on. And I felt like we were all in a position where I mean you guys I say it all the time. And I won't cry talking about it. But like you guys were the first to ever ever ever shout out your glam team. Yes. We always get told that because no one would even acknowledge like you look at this certain way. And you're like so done. But everyone wanted the perception of I woke up like this. This is how I just naturally love. And we're like, yeah, this is like hours and hours of a facade. But it's fun. You know what? It's so crazy about that time. I feel like we were the best. No, we were all growing our brands. But it didn't feel like it. We were just kind of like living and having so much fun and being on Snapchat and doing funny filters and just like showing our life 'cause it was just fun. It was like a journal. - It was. - And it was so innocent, too, back then. - And I appreciate the time it was because now it's like influencer overload and like everything that someone's talking about, they're being paid to talk about, we're like when we were doing shit, you literally just did whatever you wanted. And if you were talking about something, you were just talking about it. - Thank God we all had each other 'cause I remember like Jess Alba was doing on his company at the time. - Yes. - My friend Emily Weiss was doing Glossier and you guys were launching all of your companies. Oh my God, how many amazing shoots did we do? - I mean, how many, but also I think it's so important to say is 'cause even close friends of mine are like, all you guys do is all these successful things. I'm like, do you know how many things we've done that have failed and tanked? And you are a testament to like, you have how many shoots have we done because we've done so much crap and it maybe had a little momentum and then it tanked like you have to kiss a bunch of frogs and then you find your prints and that's okay. We just do it on a larger scale. - I mean, no, I'm gonna shout you out. I'm interrupting you and shouting you out for this because I was there with you for a good like seven years of you not only navigating like your personal life that was complicated, helping everybody with all of their things, making sure everyone in your life was taking care of and you were traveling the world. We went all over the world together and you would just, no matter what was going on in your personal life would show up with such light and grace and it was cuckoo. I was like, how is this girl doing this? - We were just young. - I mean, Chloe, the energy we had, but speaking about that, we got to go to the fucking best, craziest places. And I feel like even though we were working, Jen and I have such a good relationship. We would, it's before kids, it's before any of that. So we had different energy, but we had so much fun in every place that we went and we've literally gone everywhere. - Australia, Dubai, London, same bar, it's Costa Rica. - Yes, oh my god. - And you're a million times everywhere. - Yeah, we hit the best time, but I really feel like I got to see so many versions of you. And what's interesting is, I would get a lot of shit, to be honest, about being friends with my clients. It was looked down upon that I was being friends with my clients and I'm like, I am with it. We've spent so much time together, Chloe. And it's so intimate, you know, being in someone's house, like outsiders. - Yeah, like people, I don't think they understanders, yeah. - Because how much, and when you get your glam done, whether like even if for someone to really do for just at the salon, getting your nails done or your hair done, they always say like, your hairstylist is like your therapist. When I'm seeing you, it's the most vulnerable time, you're in your home, it's like 5 a.m., you might have had a long night, your baby's been crying, your husband did something, whatever. You're the first person I see. Yes, I'm gonna award vomit all this stuff to you. - Oh my god, I had a transponer to your gate, to my gate, but that's the connection and it's so deep that of course you like fall in love with your glam teams and you guys, but like people become such good friends. So I think people don't know 'cause they're not in those intimate moments, but also we're traveling together, we're jet lag together, it's everything. - Yeah, I think the relatable thing to everybody though, is like no matter what you're doing and who you're working with, be a good person and don't be a user. And just like show up and protect the people you work with and don't be caddy and don't be dramatic and don't put your, whatever's going on with your life, especially as a hairstylist I have to say. I used to get so mad when people would come in and just dump on you, and you had to be so like front facing, forward facing and then you have to go and meet people. I mean the time you were, I don't know how you did it, but like you were meeting thousands of people and having one-on-one conversations and making every person feel seen and heard and I was exhausted just watching you do it. - It was a different time. - But like when I, when glam people would like not be like professional. - Professional. - Well, speaking of professionalism, it's always something like totally get you, there's evolutions and we all evolve and grow into different phases. When Jen worked with me, Jen was with me literally every day for like seven years, then she wanted to go and start way and I'll never forget how you handled this. You were like I'm gonna leave and start way when you talk to me about it and you said I'm going to train someone and leave you with someone. I'm not gonna leave until I know you're comfortable. And I have never been treated with such respect and I will say professionalism, although you and I were so close and you did exactly that. Like I've been told from people, oh well, make sure I do all this delicately or there'll be a smooth transition and it's never fucking happened. And with you, I've always used you, it's been like Jen, you set me up for success. I want you to go and be successful and do your thing and I'm supportive of you. But like also can this be like a win-win? I don't wanna be left high and dry as silly as that is but I still have to work too. And you did it like if anyone could teach a class in that and I don't get why more people don't do that 'cause it only makes that person like cheer you on more and be like, fuck yes, like I don't know what they make. It makes you feel that you're not being used and it wasn't just a stepping stone. And I will always respect you for how you handled that situation. - How I handled that breakup? - Yeah. - It wasn't a break up. - It was a shame. - I'm coupling. - Yes. - Before it existed. - Yes. - You know why I wasn't even a breakup, it was just. - That moment, like my business was starting to like take off and I was like, oh my god, I need to, I can't do it all. I'm a shell of myself, pre-kits by the way. And I remember being like, it's feeling so guilty. I felt so much guilt for like leaving this profession full time that had like brought me so many blessings and I was like, how am I gonna do this? And the crazy thing is Chloe, like it was the perfect time for me to step in and like really nurture the brand to get it to work. And I had at the time, 30 people who relied on me to not screw up and get canceled. And like, they're working really hard every day on this brand and I was like, I've gotta do this and I just felt in my heart, it was just the perfect timing. And like, you and I both have now collectively changed so many people's lives. And you've seen these girls go from assistance to now like, amazing hairstylist in there. Have amazing careers and they'll have amazing things happening in their life. - But you definitely paved the way for so many people. - So Jen was tragically one of the people who lost her Malibu home in the Palisades Fire. And how did that experience shape you? I remember speaking to you when it was happening. - You offered for us to come and stay at your house. - Okay, well that was ridiculous. - You were that worried about me. - I don't think I meant that. - That experience goes in just the file of hard things that people go through that, you know, my dad dying, you know, how horrible that is. I had a dog that we lost to a coyote tragically in front of me and that was just painful. I'm such a dog person. I know I wasn't, I am. She wasn't at all. - And losing the house has given me just like crazy empathy. The only thing that I've gained from it is just empathy. Like I realized in that moment, you know, it's been nine months and I feel like I'm just starting to like fill my own loss and our own loss of like our home because it's been just such a heavy loss for everybody. I also in that moment felt so held by our friends and our community and our neighbors. And we all were checking on one another and my husband stayed behind with some of our neighbors to help evacuate elderly people in our community. And you know, we never thought, I went to work that day. Texted my account and said, hey, there's some smoke near Topanga, 10 AM. Never thought 8 PM our house would be gone. - Right. - And I think if anything, I feel like the best thing you could do and the best thing I could do is tell people to be prepared. Like I had a fire box. We had a fire scare two months prior. So 3 AM, our power went out. Mike and I went around the house and gathered the letter from my dad, my grandma's jewelry. Anything that mattered to us, we put it in this big box and so we had it ready to go. - Something that I know I'm really spiritual. I never know where you stand on that 'cause you always go up and down. But when you went, so Jen also has, now it's her main home, but at the time it was her second home, she moved to Seattle. And I remember seeing you on social and you were going through belongings and you thought your grandma's jewelry got burned in the fire and then you found it later in one of those boxes. - I know. - Does that ignite your spirituality at all? Does that make you be like, oh my gosh. Like these are signs. She made sure this was with me 'cause when I saw that I got chills. - I know, it was so crazy. I, you know, you're in such fight or flight and then as a mom, you're like, okay, my kids have nothing right now. I need to like get supplies and then people, I had like so many people sending us just like toys and food and it was just very overwhelming. And I remember maybe two months later, I was like, oh my god, my grandma's, I had like this other stack of jewelry and I remember just being like, I didn't grab it. And I didn't think, Mike was calling me and saying, what else can I grab? Is there anything else? and I did not think we were gonna lose our house. I was like, there's no way at 2 p.m. when you're evacuating that we're gonna lose this house. - Yeah. - So anyways, I went to the garage in Seattle, we got all of our things. We had like one garage in Malibu that made it. It was like random things in there, but there was a couple of boxes. So we were kind of going to you and cleaning out all of this stuff. And there was a sun glass case, and I opened it up and my grandma's jewelry was in it. - How is that a coincidence? - Like how? - I have to believe and there's a deeper meaning. - My God. - Chloe, like, you know, we all, I know it's so cliche to be like after someone dies and there's your little thing that you remember. You know, when I see a rainbow is so basic, but I grew up in Hawaii. And my dad loved rainbows, but like, you know, there are so many moments like that where I fully feel like in the afterlife and you have to understand, the guilt I had leaving the Mormon church, thinking I'll never be with my family ever again, is so strong. But I've completely worked through all of that. And I understand like, I do feel like whether it's like, you're just like a part of a universe when you pass. Nobody knows, right? None of us know, but I do feel like my family's energy protecting us all the time. I think about it a lot. - I love that. I'm such a faith-based person. And I don't know. I just, I don't know how I would survive my days without just having that faith or that spirituality to lean on. - I mean, who's the first person that tells you to keep posting your Bible quotes? - You. - I know. - I love them. And it makes me feel like, and I need you to do it more because honestly, Chloe, like, I think the more information that we're given through just our phones all day, every day, I just feel like the best thing we can do is show up and be a light. We need more of it. We need more people just like taking care of each other. And like, I will tell you, the fire taught me, know your neighbors. - Right. - Get to know them on a personal level. Like I'd never had that in LA until we lived in Malibu. And it's just something that's so important to like, just got, we like send little baskets for holidays to all of our neighbors, just to like, so they know our phone number, so they know our kids. What our dog looks like, you know, it's just really important to like rely on neighbors. - That's a good tip. - It really is, especially I think in places like LA where so many people don't do that, I do think it is important to do that. - I've been thinking a lot about how much modern life quietly takes a toll on us. Even when I'm doing all the right things, I still notice where I feel bloated, low energy, or just not quite myself. That's what made me start looking for something that supports my body on a deeper level. And that's how I found armor colostrum. We live in a day and age of unprecedented access to information, innovation, and opportunity, but also one of environmental and societal stressors that our biology was never designed for. From microplastics to chronic digital exposure, endocrine disruptors, and industrialized food, modern life is hijacking our health at a cellular level, leading to sluggishness, bloating, and accelerated aging, and not feeling like yourself. 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Just head to Oli.com/wonderland. Tell them all about your dog and use code Wonderland to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe. And don't worry, they've got a happiness guarantee on that first box. So if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back. That's o-l-l-i-e.com/wonderland. And enter the code Wonderland to get 60% off your first box. If you're obsessed with your dogs, it's only fair to give them the best. Thanks so much to Oli for sponsoring this episode. What do you raise because Mike is Jewish? What do you raise your children with any belief system? So my husband is Jewish and I was raised Mormon. So neither of us are super practicing. He doesn't go to temple. I don't think that our kids, to be honest, I'm going to take in the church of Dr. Becky. I feel like we're going to navigate this in the way that we're breaking emotional and generational trauma as we're not gentle parenting, right? But we're breaking a lot of the things that maybe we wish we wouldn't have had passed on to us. And I think with religion, I kind of feel the same way. I want my kids to have a new version, a new form of spirituality. And I was just thinking about this last night. I actually go up praying with my grandparents. Like they prayed together every night on their knees, every night and just like prayed for family members, prayed for if they read in the news that there was like a fire or if there was like, you know, earthquake. And I remember going up around that and feeling so protected by that ritual. And I think I want to start doing that with the kids. And if it's not to like a certain God, it's even just to the universe. And like saying a prayer for people. And I think it'll teach them that like, you know, we're all just little ants on this planet. And I love that. I think that's a beautiful first step in you being saved. Just kidding. [LAUGHS] Well, I'm really proud of us for getting through this, by the way, and not just completely tearing each other apart. We're the kind of friends, by the way, that like we're sisters at this point where I can just say the worst thing to you and makes you laugh. Something about my mom's party. Oh my god, Jen and I were both like really fucked up. Yeah. And Jen was like, don't fucking hate you. And I'm like, I fucking hate you. Oh, we would be on set all the time. And people would look like, do they hate each other? Yes. You guys would love to find a friend that can just dish it and take it because it is the best. We just are just verbally assaulting one another. But we need to let it out somewhere. And like, we re-know it's safe. We're not canceling each other. But we will be right. We've never gotten offended either one of us. Never. We'll be like, you're so fucking ugly. She would literally be like, you're acting so adopted. Well, it's true sometimes. Do you remember your app? Like you would make me do the craziest things for that app. Well, okay. So you start working a lot. You don't have a lot of friends. So you were one of my besties on your channel, by the way, because I really love your podcast. I'm not just saying it. I really do. And I don't like podcast, but I like yours. I mean, you've told me four times. Why the fuck am I doing a podcast? And I was looking at like videos that you've posted. And you have a thumbnail of you and I. And it says, who's-- I think a few. Guess who's the best liar with my face next to it. It's you. Thank you. You are a great liar. Which era do you think had the best hair? I don't need like a big spiel about it. The '70s, because everyone had really big hair, really sexy dresses, like-- Everyone is just like selling sex in a really glamorous way. And also, everyone is on Kweiloods. So that's my favorite era for you. When, when? Yeah. I don't know why when I thought '70s, I was thinking '80s, because '80s was so. No, it was '74. It was like '74, Jerry Hall, just really gorgeousness. How many Barbies do you have? Oh my god. I'm going all over. Something happened. OK, you know that my first child was Barbie Birkin. Barbie Birkin. I love that Barbie. No, this Barbie. So Jenna, this Barbie Birkin, her own Instagram account, everything. And no one knew who ran the Instagram account at the time. It was like, what was it? One that was Norrie's black book. Yes, it was like that. But you don't want to pull back the curtain. I don't want to know who the wizard is and the wizard of Oz. Did you ever find out who that is? Yes, we had a lunch with her on keeping up and it's sort of like-- It's nobody we know? No, you must have thought it was me for a minute. We called you and asked if it was you. We thought it was like Jonathan or Joyce. We had so many people. That's so funny. I mean, you're witty enough for it to be. Well, thank you. You are. You know, I have probably over 50 Barbies now. But in COVID, I really like fell into a deep, dark place. I told you, I loved branding, OK? Barbie was the first thing I got kind of like hooked on. I'm going to say a few things to you, really. Oh, yeah, I have to switch gears. Felt the Barbies. We're going to talk about Ivar. Yup. We're going to talk about Hyde. We're going to talk about Nassia now. We're going to talk about the Mondrian. We're going to talk about-- No, what? Cherry? was that on Highland? No, Libri, there was a club cherry. You know this club, 'cause Paris used to go all the time. Anyways, were you just, we were living in a tent? - Who was, are my LAX? - LAX. - Joseph. - Who was? - Joseph's. Wait, can I just say, we needed to go off in the comments right now because I need all the millennials who are watching your podcast to know or listening to it. We need to know, like, who's bringing club culture back to like the millennial moms and dads who, like-- - Yes, well, at a much earlier time. - It needs to start at six, we're home by nine. - Yeah. - But I will check my phone at the door and I will throw down so hard. - I'll be the, if it does start at six, I'll be the first one there. - We need club culture back. - I know, it's not the same. It was so fun, but also there was no phones. - But even your mom's party, by the way, I came to your mom's party, really, because you said you were taking phones at the door. - Yeah. - Do you know how many people actually came because of that? So my mom had every name you could imagine in the phone book. Was that my mom's party? - Literally. - Literally. But so many people came because they knew there were no phones and people felt safe. They could put their guards down. And even just how connected people were, 'cause they weren't that awkwardly texting when it got a little quiet. - Or showing pictures. - They're just, yes. - It was so nice. People were making eye contact and having so much fun. - So nice. - But we need club culture back. And I think you and I are the ones to do it. - So you want us to open up a club? - I'm gonna be called club lead, lead don't. - Okay. - And it's gonna start at six. - Tell me the last time you did something selfish, just for fun. - What a question. - What have I done at selfish? Ooh, I was in Paris recently. This never happens. I was by myself in Paris for a way. We did this huge activation. It was a dream come true. And I got like four hours to myself. And I was supposed to do some work. But I was like, you know, a laze of sleep. I'm gonna go and I went shopping. And I just took myself on a little shopping spree. And I went to the row and I bought bag. And I like had just like a fabulous afternoon. It was the best. - Okay, Kendall Jenner. - She, I know. Well, Kendall let me wear the row. Am I allowed? - Yes. - You're allowed. - What is the most surprising note in your notes app? Right now. - The most surprising. - Honey. - I'm scared of your notes. - Pictures of you. - Oh my god. - I was preparing for it today. And I was like trying to remember just all the things we've been through. Jen is someone who's the most prepared, even when it could be from going to work. She will show people, if you're like, I'm gonna do an updo. She'll have like 20 different updo images. - Yeah. - And she'll show you and like you pick one and Jen can actually recreate it, which is awesome. But you are the most prepared in whatever you do. Even with brands, with like all of the stuff you do if someone else's brand, you're still like, "Wait, it should look like this." And you have photos, it's wild. - I love it. - I'm such a nerd, Chloe. - No, I love that. - This is me. I love Google Docs, I love the note tap, I love Figma, I love like, I just love being organized and prepared. - If you think I know what Figma is, you're crazy. What is your can't live without glam product? - I mean, here's the thing. I do like, I don't really do hair anymore. - For yourself. - Oh, for myself? I would say, okay. I will tell you two things I can't live without. I just launched this amazing dry shampoo foam that's called Fresh Fluff. And it's like a mousse, but you work it into your hair and it makes your hair so clean and soft and amazing. - Oh, that's that. - I'm obsessed with me. - I gave you something that's coming out very soon. The double brush. - The double brush. - That's a travel brush. - That is my new obsession. - So my drawer hiding. - Yeah, it's gone for bed, I'll show it. - Like, please. - Do you ever miss the chaos of early glam years? Are you happy? - Oh God. - And there's two sets. - God. - So if I'm good at what I do. - Holy. - And there's two sets we came out with with Way. We came out with a visa in Santorini and I'm obsessed. We've worked on it for two years. - No, which is the one I love. - And we're taking you on vacation, baby. You love St. Bart's. - I love St. Bart's. - But like, Santorini is to die for it. - I love Santorini. - St. Bart's. - St. Bart's. - Oh. - No, but I love the Santorini. I know. You love Santorini. - I love it. - I've been obsessed with that. - It's insane. - You keep asking me for more. - Didn't you go to Santorini with us for filming? - No. - No, isn't me. - Sorry, wrong person. - Do you ever miss the chaos of early glam? Or do you, are you happy it slowed down? - Of early glam? What do you mean being there early? - No, you don't miss it. - Do I miss the commute to your house? - Being at your house? 'Cause you like to glam at 6 a.m.? - No, I don't. - The real thing. - I don't miss that Jen stopped working with me because Kendall got old enough. - Oh my god. And had her own house in Beverly Hills. So Jen was like, I'm gonna lie and say I quit. But I'm really just gonna move on with Kendall. But that's a whole other part of me. - Well, what Chloe isn't saying is this. So hung up my scissors and then Kendall moved to the city. And she's like my little sister. I had to take care of her and then Kylie just got so famous that I couldn't ignore her. - Exactly. - You know what I mean? Like she had this brand that was really taking off. - Right, you had to do it. - So I could drive out here for her. - Right, but I'd wave at you when I passed your house. - You would. You know what, it's fine. What is a song that takes you back to the early 2000s? (humming) - Oh my god. Wait, that came to you so quickly. 'Cause I was just dancing to it at your mom's party. - Oh my god, wow. - Or you're such a good singer. - Hey. - ♪ Hey, hey, hey, got you money ♪ - What hair trend do you never want to come back? You putting a blue crowned- - Crown prince. - Crown prince literally. - I did. An Olsen inspired crown braid on this girl. - I'm not an Olsenie 12. - An Olsenie 12. And it was so cute with your floral dress. And the picture wouldn't stop talking about it for five years. - No, how much I hated it. - You were so mad. - Well, first of all, I wish I was as cool as the Olsen sisters. I was also much chubbier this girl in front of me. Gives me a crown-fucking-brains. - It was boho chic. - I'm not boho. I was like-- - Oh my god, you ruined it. - You ruined boho braids for me for life. Okay, so I wanted to never come back. We never have to talk about it again. - Jen thought she was like so innovative and riveting. She put this Rita Hazan in my defense. - Spray paint in the part of my hair, which will plop up a picture of it. - Oh, I'll show you all the photos. - And it's a blue line. And you took a sharpie and drew down my part. And I thought it was great too, 'cause I wore it. - And then in hindsight-- - We were just trying things. - Hey, do you understand how much pressure was on me? We had, what was that website? - Hollywood life. - Hollywood life. - Hollywood life. - Hollywood life. - And we lived to be honest. - And Hollywood life would always shout out our glam, so we had pressured. - No, and we like if we were on it. - And it was like, you could like vote. We were just like, oh, we've made it. That was like vote. - That and pink is a new blog. - Yeah, we were on that. We made it. - What are you staring at over here? - That one piece is driving me. - What is it? - Can you see me staring at-- - What do you mean I'm not TV wonder, of course. I've never seen anything like this. - So sorry, it's just distracting to me. I need it to be like, it's better now. You had one little hair that was literally-- - Chloe, it's like, let me show you what it feels like to me. - You're talking, but the hair is just doing that. And it's so distracting. - Wow, my next question is, are you type A or type B, but I think we know that answer. - Honey, anyways. - I'm close C.D. is what I am. - What's your favorite main product? - I feel like-- - Ooh, hot round brush for sure. - One is sold every seven seconds. - Shut up. - Where'd it go? - The one that I tried to use. - It's crazy. - That was like a tool I wanted to make for the moms. The moms that are rushed that are just our new look at themselves again in the mirror. - And we're like rich, rich. - Honey. - That's amazing for you. - That's not true. - I'm invested. Let's just say that. I love it. - I invest it. - Yeah. - Well, you're wealthy. - The hot round brush, baby. You can buy me-- - You can get it at Sephora. - No, it is a great brush. Because if I am literally not able to use even, like, I can't brush my hair. - Let's not talk about me trying to show you how to do your hair a million times. - Yeah, we have a video, we need to give them that video. So I was dating someone in Houston. And I remember saying to Jen, I can't bring glam. But like, who's gonna teach me how to curl my hair? Just like, oh my God, let's film it. And when you're in Houston, watch the video back. It is the most train wreck of a video. - But what's crazy is I've done that. I did it for Courtney and her bangs like two weeks ago. I've done it with Kendall. She's FaceTime me a million times to ask how to do it. They pick up on these things. And they do it. - I can't. - No, I am literally-- - You're my one student that just mentally-- - Doesn't wanna leave the mess. - No, I can't, and it's curling. Like, it's not that-- - Like, Chloe. - You know how many people know how to curl their hair now? You may TikTok videos there are. It's just-- - And I don't. I've literally tried to watch YouTube. I'm like, maybe it's a Jen problem. And you don't know how to teach. - Well, no, it's not. I've gone on YouTube. - I mean, I've taught you a million times. - It, no, I just can't compute it. And then to know that you do it a different way, each side, I'm like-- - Remember I did you keep the butt of the cord facing up and just change hands. - I can't handle it. - Well, you look beautiful. - Well, I didn't do my hair. - Thank God you've got a lot of people on speed dial. - At least it's job security. - Yeah, remember when you used to wear pink latex? - I loved that. - So fun story. - Yeah. - That was my finger, my knuckles are all bloody because I punched Lamar minutes, well, probably hours before. - You're lying. - That's when-- - In this pap shot? - Yes, 'cause that was Scott Disick's birthday in Vegas. And I remember right before is when I went to say goodbye to what I thought was Lamar that didn't have a phone and he's recovering from his overdose. And I walk in on him doing naughty things. And so I swung on him. And I punched him. - Do you know what's crazy? I can't even watch that episode where you, like, See him. Oh, it's wild. I can't I'll never watch it. I just too hard. I blocked out. Okay. That was your My bad experience. I'm gonna say about this part. Best I've ever looked. Chloe, mother, effing Kardashian has always been the most supportive human being on the face of the planet and the reason I'm here today. Oh, but like you did my very first main addicts before main the tools was main addicts, which is a digital platform magazine about hair. And you did our very first like digital cover. Yeah. And my picture of your lips in my home, which then Kylie copied. Thank you. And became the Kylie lip kit lip. What are the young kids do this? I don't know. All of it. No, but we did. We did the shoot at my house. Mary did my makeup. Yeah. You did my hair. Mike shot it. Yeah. At grandiose. So we just went to different white walls. I did my own styling. I mean, look at the hat. Obviously. Oh my god, but it was so fun. It was so fun. And we made it hurt. How cute are you? Do you have kids? No. We had so much fun and time. I would be doing this extra shit if I had kids. Can we just say a PSA for any. Do you have any girl for kids? Any girl out there who thinks that you've got it rough. Please sleep in. Please just go and hook up with as many people as possible. As many people. And honestly, just like live your best life. And yes, travel when we did fun. I have no regrets. Look at this. No regrets. Oh my god. That was on such a slut. That was RuPaul's Drag Race. Yeah. First of all, biggest fan obsessed with Rue. No one asked me to dress in a character. I'm willingly like, I'm going to be a sailor. Wait, how did that come to be? I don't fucking know what I chose to be a sailor. No, I look amazing. But the balls I had on the sailor one, I was like a leopard in the second episode. I don't know why. I thought I needed to dress like camping because we were just at the time. It was like camping. That's what you do if you show up to RuPaul's Drag Race. Can we discuss something? I guess. You're kind of annoying because you're so, you're always like, you've always got an aesthetic. I was just going through these pictures of a god. Your old house. You always had an aesthetic and a vibe which was what? But like, I don't understand how you have your shit together. I don't know. Like truly. How have you just always had your shit together? You've never fall apart. Why? I've never heard all the time. No, you don't. I have days. I don't have like months. But your grumpy is still like not as bad as like most people. You're pretty like in the light. It's annoying. True sex. It's annoying. True is upset. She goes, "Peace begins with me. Peace begins with. " No, who taught her that? I don't know. She'll just do that if she feels frustrated because like, she'll do so that she's like, "Stits always was peace begins with me." I was like, I'm fucking stealing that. Jen, thank you so much for coming on. I know how much you hate podcasts and you hate me. But I really appreciate you coming on. I am so happy to be here and I'm so proud of you and all the things that you do and all of the amazing light you put into the world and the podcast is just another outlet for you. And even though you're still drunk, you did a great job. You really did. Struggle. You're so drunk.