Kevin and Madison Call Off Their Wedding | "The Adirondacks" with Chris Geere (516)

On today's episode of That Was Us, we are diving into season 5, episode 16, the Adirondacks. In this season 5 finale, as Kevin and Madison's wedding day arrives, Longberry doubts family truths and questions about what love really looks like come to the surface. While some relationships grow stronger, others are forced to confront whether love alone is really enough, I had everything about this, I was looking at my heart, I got to kick off the intro thinking that we were ready. I'm like, oh, God, this guy is, we just watched this episode. I watched it last night. It's season 5, season 5. It's very sad. Maybe the sadness is something that leaves people on the hook for to see this as us, enjoy your how you guess. Have a great summer. Have a good summer. We'll see you next fall. And here's the thing, the whole time I'm watching it because I know what's going to happen. And I'm sort of finding myself, I was like, could it have gone another way? Is there any way that this could have been? I think it had to be what it has to be, like drama requires conflict. And sometimes people would be like, oh, I wish they would just get along. And you say that, but they know it would be a boring show. It would be, you know, it would be. Then it just becomes, I don't know, HGTV. But there is something about, like, so we get some backstory in this episode and we'll go through it all in one time. But like, we have a couple of flashbacks from Madison, right? That sort of like, give her a bit of a, the bigger picture as to her relationship with her parents. Yeah, because there's a mom and a dad. And then there's also an ex-boyfriend. Yeah, we see the mom leaving in one flashback. See the mom leaving. We see the dad telling Madison, like, don't be picky with, you know, like going to the school dance, like, just go with whoever's, yeah, whoever wants to take you, go in that direction. And then the ex-boyfriend kind of breaking up with her and being like, we're really just meant to be friends with her feeling otherwise. It's just like rejection after rejection after rejection. Of like, and the story being, you are not good enough. You have no value to all three of these people. And this continues to be the story that I'm sure she tells herself. And it sort of coincides with her wedding day, with like, what should be the most, you know, important day of her life, thus far, minus probably having the children. And I think it's sort of illuminating the doubts, the deep-seated doubts that a lesser evolved human would probably not think to have. And it just made me not to, I mean, sorry, we're like taking off now with with all it, but like, it maybe really realize and think back to the evolution of this character in particular. And we even see in this particular episode. So the day this ex-boyfriend and this flashback breaks up with her, she immediately starts binging, going on like a binge. And then it sort of leads her into being in this recovery group for overeaters anonymous or whatever we're saying, where she ends at meeting Kate. And to think back on who that woman was when we first met her in the pilot, and how we all kind of like rolled her eyes as the collective in the room, like, what is this woman having a business doing in this room with us? To where she is in this particular episode is really astounding. And as a testament to Kate as an actress and the writing and where they've sort of allowed this character to grow that we all, you know, love her and are rooting for her. And by extension, are rooting for her and Kevin and their family to sort of see themselves into this next chapter of their lives. It's just like, wow, I'm not sure that Dan necessarily knew like where this character was going at the beginning of the show, but it's like, but we've all, we're all along for the ride. And I just think they've done such a, they did such a tremendous job of making us really care for and root for this woman and see ourselves through a certain extent in her as well. Agreed. Agreed. First of all, I'd love that, you know, Dan gave his wife something to do. Very cool. Hell yeah. And she like steps up to the plate in such a major way. She's so great in the show. She does does wonderfully in it. I just found myself sort of like experiencing the show from from her perspective, right? Because normally I'm with the piercings and what they're going through. And of course, there's, there's things that we will have to talk about there. And obviously, my brother, who I love and want to see, you know, flourish and rise, but like this was really her story because it was told from her perspective, I think. And appropriately so because we've been clocking this whole season, like anytime he talks about Madison, he talks about the love he has for the life that they've created for this family that they're building, for all these things, but it's never about her. Right. And that's what makes it so uncomfortable. Yeah, from the giga because we've already, we've seen it coming for the last few episodes. And like I said, I hated everything about this episode. At every turn, I'm just like, no, I did none of this. I don't like any of this. I don't like how any of this feels. Yeah. Literally none of this feel, usually in this is a, some, one of it feels good. Something feels good. And just nothing in this episode feels good. Now, I'm going through my purse, like an old grandmother looking for my energy. And the interesting part, we see, we see the episode is kicked off with with Justin practicing some kind of speech. Yeah. Right. In front of a mirror. And from the princess bride. Yeah. Maui. Yeah. Which I've, I've presided over exactly one wedding and did that bit. Did you really back in the early odds? I've done one wedding. But we see him him preparing this, this speech. And then early on in the episode, we also, we also see Madison saying, no movie quotes, no jokes. Yeah. Improv Kevin is not invited. Correct. Improv Kevin is not invited as they are beginning to plan this. So I was like, oh, he is defying, he's defying her, her wishes. He's going out on a limb. And it's also just to him keeping it, it clearly seems like he's keeping things at arm's length. Yeah. With, with comedy again. Sure. The same way it did in the previous episode when they asked about the, the, where, where they see each other. Yeah. Yeah. A trick question. Yeah. I never want to grow old. She knows that about me. She knows that about me because we are in love with the idea of a family. Yeah. Yeah. So okay, let's, let's, we'll just go right to the heart of it. We'll do Kevin Madison and then we'll backtrack through other things. Let me see. Jack putting the, that's not. Kevin is freaking out about all the wedding details. Sort of like the groomzilla. He wants everything to be perfect. Yeah. Uncle Nikki is there documenting everything with the iPad. He's ridiculous. With a full size iPad. It's like, you give the old man some technology. Yeah. He's like, stop. We have a videographer. And he's like, no, no, you're going to want this. Like every little detail. Exactly. I even love right. And that seemed to it. The very end of it. Madison sort of gives him a cute sea chance to like duck out. You know, she said, she says all the women in my family. And he's like, no, I'm sticking around. That sort of thing. I gave Rachel that chance. We had a conversation before we got married about like the real sea or was it like, no, it was real. It was real. It was, it was, it was, well, it was a real like, I have fully come to full terms with what the life of an actor is going to be like. Sure. And so if somebody else is going to participate in that, like, you need to be fully aware, fully aware, yeah, feast famine, yeah, ups, downs, in town, out of town, overtown, you know, all these things. And my wife took the only thing I remember saying to me, we were already married. No, no, we weren't too late. No, we weren't married. But she talked to me about alternate streams of income. Like she made it like after I had tested for five pilots. And I like, she's like, you may want to think about alternate streams of income. And I was like, what do you mean? And she's like, you know, you got to find a way to make money. I was like, I'm going to make money through acting. And she's like, yeah, but it doesn't seem like it's working out for you. I said, I just tested for five pilots. And she's like, yeah, but she didn't book any. And that's silver lining and a great cloud coming together to marry each other. Silver lining and a great cloud. It worked out. And so what did you do for money? I've never done anything other than knock. I've never done anything. I guess I'll just do movies. I mean, no choice. You mean, I guess I'll start a point. - That was super career. - They, uh, Sully and, and John made a joke. People have been asking about clips from the, the roast, what's I get it from the videographer, I'll try to put something out there, right? But he, the, one of the jokes that they made with me was that like, you know, they're supporting actors, they only refer, I only refer to them by their, their numbers, six and eight, et cetera. And they're like, you know, Sterling has no idea what that's like. Oh, it's, it's like the roles that you do in movies. That was a really good job. - That was a good job. (laughing) - You sure? (laughing) - For it's, it's a bit of inside baseball for those, for those who, who aren't in the industry to be, film and television are two totally different, can be two totally different worlds. - Yeah. - And, uh, and to be, to be a lead in, in both worlds is, which you are, of course. - I'm not, but I'm not. - You are, of one day. - No, you are. - What do you mean? - The joke, I mean, the joke, well, you're, but you're, let's put it this way. Your Oscar nomination was for supporting after. So, sit down. (laughing) - Anyway, anyway. - Let's keep going here. So, things aren't, you know, go, oh no. He's nervous. He just wants everything to go perfectly or what, have you? They wound up going to the venue. He bought the whole thing out. Uncle Nicky's like, how rich are you? He's like, it's easier this way in the middle of COVID. And it does make you wonder, how rich is this guy? He's doing well for himself, right? The family gets there, he can't have to do this for everyone. - I know, it's like you have to like get in there with everybody. It's all, our show is all connected. - Yeah, I wanna talk about any of it. (laughing) - Let's talk about something else. What are the shows we were talking about? (laughing) - You're loving. - Widow's Bay. - Widow's Bay. - I mean, y'all gotta get on the train. - All right, we're getting on the Widow's Bay train. If, you know what, let's just stop doing this and watch the first episode. - Oh my God. - Honestly, I love her. Nothing more. - Stop saying that. (laughing) - What's your hot day, Chris? Go for it. - I'm just saying, I just don't-- - No, no, go with your hot day. - There's, I don't feel, I don't like, none of this makes me feel good. Every scene in this episode is like, no. And as we get to the end of this episode, it's just, we're getting too close to things being over. - Oh, is that maybe what it is? - It's part of it. - That is part of it. - There is, okay, hold on, there's a scene, there's a scene that makes me feel good. I'm gonna tell you about it, but it's not in this storyline. So I'm just gonna go through this. - It's probably not even in this episode. - It isn't this episode. - So the family-- - So the family. - The Pearson's Arrive from the East Coast. - Randall, that's the girls. - Yes, Miguel, well, you guys are already on the West Coast. - Yeah. - But we all get to the venue together. Kev's there, he's very excited for things to go a certain way. Mom and Randall have a little bit of something 'cause Mom wants to talk to Randall about his trip to New Orleans. Randall's like, anytime you want to talk about it, it's cool. But like, he's not rushing into it. And she's like, won't let him go on this particular. - In the last episode, Beth says, if you wanna know about his trip. - Just ask, just ask him, right? So we get to outside. - Because the altar is collapsed. - The altar has collapsed. The wedding planet comes in and we got a little bit of a problem. Now the altar was designed by Madison. This was sort of her thing. It's falling apart, they're trying to do what they can to fix it. So the boys coming through, you got Nikki, you got Miguel, you got Tobias, you got Randall. - Everyone's contributing in their own way. - Everyone's outside contributing to this thing. I thought this scene was cute. - It was cute. - Okay, 'cause-- - Not often do we get to see these five gentlemen together in this capacity, it's very nice. - You know, these days, and these days, the shooting of it was a lot of fun. 'Cause we ended up at these venues where they're beautiful and we're just hanging out in these beautiful places. - And it's Ken with his head in his hands. - Yeah. - Oh, how are we gonna do this? - So stressed out about everything. - Yeah, when he has ever seen Ken, his like, diagrams are just like stick figures. - Yeah, yeah, Ken. - He has like the shot list. - Yeah. - With like the stick figures, that's a cutest thing to know. - He's like a, he's like a second grader who's trying to coach NFL football. - Yeah, then you're gonna go here and then you'll go there. - Stick figure A with like arrows and axes and, yeah. - So we're out there doing this thing. We get two tombstone references, one in this one. And I can tell, these are usually my favorite things. Like, Randall had to do a rainman. - Yeah. - I was like, "I'm gonna watch rainman." Like, did you watch a little bit of tombstone? - I didn't need to. - You're good. - Because it lives in you. Tombstone, heat, get ready for this curve ball. The Lion King. - Oh, okay. - You don't know. Were the three movies in my like college apartment, room it's a four, that were just on a loop. - Wow. - Those three on a loop. - The Lion King was in the next two. - The Lion King got thrown in like pretty regularly. - Yeah, not a, 'cause I just can't wait to be king. (laughing) - But, tombstone, I used to be able to do that whole movie front to back, 'cause you're right. - So you didn't need to rewatch it for this particular scene. - I knew exactly. And a hot take, Val Kilmer, in tombstone, greatest film performance of all time by any actor. - That's a very hot take. - Yeah. - It's not true. - I haven't seen it, so I don't know. - No, no, no, you gotta see this one. This is one that you have to see because it's not even about pop culture, anything. He's right, it is a great performance. I will say greatest performance, that's impossible. For a long time, the one that inspired me to want to be an actor, if I could do what Richard Burton did, and who's afraid of a genuine wolf. - Oh yeah. - Then I was like, then I can have a career. - Well, that's the educated man's choice. - Val Kilmer, in tombstone, I'm your Huckleberry. - I'm not, yeah, Huckleberry. - He's great. - The college man's choice. - When he does this thing, 'cause there's people, everybody wants to challenge him, 'cause he's like the fastest guy in the West, and he's like Doc Holliday, but he's always drugged. What's his, is it opium? - He's drunk, he's high on opium, he's drunk. He's a famous doctor, and he is dying of leukemia. - He died of leukemia, so he's kind of won and pale, and he's always just sort of like, you know, - Sweat and everything. - One time he like, he takes like a cup, it's like a mug, and he starts like spinning it, like he's like about to fight. It's fucking awesome, you know. It's fucking awesome. - Wow. - So are you in now? - Amen. - I'm in. - More that was us, after these words from our sponsors. (gentle music) - So you're doing that, and you're asking about long distance relationships, because Kev has some experience with that, Kev's like, it didn't go great for me, wound up divorcing my wife, et cetera. So that's not good, he's like, okay, I won't bring it up now, because you don't get anything to deal with, even though you didn't. - That's something I'm going to talk to you about on your wedding day. - There's a little bit of tension between Miguel and Nikki, you know, because he's like, I know the higher people, to do the stuff that I was really good at. - Oh, when he was like, he's like, yeah, when I'm renovating my Nomadland trailer, I'll ask your advice, Nikki. - I mean, talk about a reference that 10 years from now, nobody's gonna understand. - Totally, and I love that Nikki was like, what's Nomadland? - That's the hottest movie that was out at that month. - Well, because it was, it was not. - It was not, yeah. - Of course. - And it involved in trailers. - A lot of people who lived in trailers. It was, - Interesting, it's very specific. - And he said, he's a specific reference, but it did work out. - Ken said so too. And he said, you'd actually find the movie quite funny, right? You find the joke funny. Randall comes running in, he's intent and keeping his brother from getting too much sun because he knows what can happen to white people. If they do, he's running around with his umbrella, et cetera. - Yeah. - Nikki had a gift for the-- - Kevin. - It was too Adirondoc here. - You're gonna talk about, and he's like, are you gonna have a U-Haul? Because there's the only way to get it back to your house. You're creating work for the people. - On their wedding day, he's like, oh, and can you tip the guys? 'Cause I don't have any cash. - Yeah, yeah, really good. - And Kevin was like, I need air. And they're like, you're outside, he's like, no, I need in there. - I need inside air, Randall quit following me. - Yeah, that was funny. - Things are not going according to plan, right? But like, that's the sort of the external manifestation of what's sort of happening internally from Madison because we already talked about the flashbacks. The dad, are the mom leaving? We didn't know her mom was British, sort of, to the manner born. And she's like, I simply can't deal with it anymore. I've tried everything that I can, and I'm sorry. - I hope you find a better man than I do. - I hope you find a better man than I did. - Okay, mom. - Right? Dad, the next thing we see from him is just saying, like, look, are you being picky about this whole prompt thing? Just be happy that you found somebody who wants to go with you. Just do your thing. And each time we cut back to this woman, in her wedding dress, contemplating this next huge step in her life, you're like, am I doing the right thing? - Filing through her core memories. - Yeah. - Then we go to the boyfriend who's like, listen, I don't see her going any further and she tries to sort of like get, and he's like, "Hey, after I said what I just said, "why would you even try?" Like, and I actually found that an act of generosity. - Yeah. - And a very strange way. He's like saying, I don't want to be with you. I don't see where it's going to go. And if you're going to keep filing-- Wasn't the. end of the conversation, which is the coldest shutdown I've seen in a long time. It is, but let me, it's like, wait a minute, why are we still talking? It was just like really, it was cold, but it also like there was a sort of, you know, generous spirit, of course, but it was like the WWE of like, no, no, I just broke up with you. Yeah. That's it. Okay. Here's a question to you from that thing, because I was thinking about this, I was watching it. Number one, have you broken up with someone? And if you've broken up with someone, do you feel like you did it in a kind way? Yes. And no. You've done both. Yeah. You've done both. Tell me the one that you thought was kind. Tell me what that entailed. I mean, I think I've talked about it on here where, where a girl that I was dating, we both kind of looked at each other, and we're like, at the same time, we're like, yeah. Right? We were both just like, we're just, are we just friends? And she was like, I think so. Okay. So it was mutual. It was. Okay. It was. I think that the, like, maybe two times I've done it in my life. It wasn't mutual, but I tried to do as much of the, this isn't personal. This is just a certain place I'm in in my life, like just trying to keep the onus on you. The optics on this are good. I do not like confrontation at all. So I'm like, can you do it in person? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Yeah. I don't know. No, I wasn't. Yes, Chris. I wasn't there. Have you got what we fight out? I was. Yeah. Here's the bed. Did you do it in person? No, Chris, I texted you. Hey, Chris, here's the better question. Have you ever been broken up with kindly? No. See, that's the thing. The experience of the person who's being broken up with that's what I'm trying to get to is like, yeah, I thought that I've been tried to be kind before, but I don't know if the person who was being broken up with experienced it that way. Yeah. I broke up. I tried to break up kindly with my, the last girlfriend I had in high school. I think it told you this, too, where I was like, you know, we're going off to college. Yeah. What are we going to, you know, yeah, let's stop. Let's break this off here while it's still, why we, while it's still good. And then we ended up going to the same college. They're like, well, showed up for, oh, you didn't know. Oh, hi. We didn't, nobody had accepted things yet. Like, we had, and it was like, okay. Same college. Well, cool. God's being good, love you. Oh, dear. All right. Four years. Four years, okay. Um, I, so I've been broken up with and I've broken up. And I think I've tried to be kind, but I don't know if it was ever received that way. And I think the time that I was broken up with like, it was a situation where the, the woman stopped talking to me, and I had to actually say like, I think you no longer interested in this relationship, but having a, a tough time articulating it and she goes, yeah. And I was like, I would rather you actually just said something than just withdrawing all your physical and emotional presence. So technically you broke up with you. Yeah. And I didn't like it. No, that's awful. I didn't like it. No. That sounds like the worst version. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. That was, that's just my quick tangent. I'm curious. So after that, and like you said, we see the segue into her meeting Kate going to overeaters, anonymous, et cetera. But I think that was the catalyst that sort of led her to go and confront her fiance. And she, she really just sits down and he's like, whoa, well, she comes into, oh, no, she comes into his room. Yeah. And he's like, am I supposed to be seeing you in your wedding dress? Yeah. She basically throws it down. Do you, are you in love with, are you in love with me? The distinction. We've talked about. Yeah. Right? Not do you love me? Not do you love the idea of this family? Yeah. And that's basically, he goes on to say all of the different equations. Yeah. He doesn't answer. Yeah. He kind of deflects and talks about how much he loves their family. Yeah. And she's like, you know, I have fallen in love with you. Yeah. I have fallen in love with you. And, you know, she also tells him that like somehow she's just gone through her life gratefully accepting whatever scraps that anybody wants to throw her away. Yes. It was a good line. She's gone through life gratefully accepting whatever scraps anyone would give her. Yeah. And basically how easy it would be because his family has given her the first like semblance of a family that she's ever really had in her life. Yeah. Yeah. And you can just tell where this is going. And the whole time I'm watching the scene, I'm going, I know he doesn't feel this way about her, but I was still hoping that he could find a way to do it. Yeah. I was still hoping that he could be like, that's crazy. Of course I'm in love with you. Yeah. Yeah. And he just couldn't and he was trying to explain it away and trying to rationalize how beautiful their life was and this family that they've made and he's like, it will grow. It can grow. And that's on the writers and putting that on the writers because they could have made him in love with her. Here's the thing. Damn it. Here's the thing. I know. But it's better. I'm going to say this. I guess. It's better that he's not. I guess. It is better in this particular case. I think about this with regards to truth and kindness and when those two things are in concert with one another and when they're not. Where truth means like there needs to be a certain cruelty that I actually found what he was saying to be the kindest, most truthful version. And I was very thankful that he didn't lie to get her to do something that she felt was not right. Yeah. That would have been the recipe for disaster, right? Yeah. Because I think back to this, we had a situation that you guys know about where someone in our circle from this show got, did not get married, but was going to. And I think about like how heartbreaking that was, but I was like, I'm so happy it happened before the vows were exchanged. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like it's, and it sucks and it's awful. And like even Cavassan, please don't do this like, I'll make it work. I will soldier my way through this thing. Don't make me say something that's not true, but like, I will find it, right? I've heard people say that the, that the, you know, whatever they say, that 50, 50% of marriages end in divorce and end within, you know, the first year of marriage, that those people know the minute they're walking down the aisle, that this isn't going to be well before. But it's too embarrassing. It's too inconvenient. Yeah. It's too scary to like, you've already invited people. You've heard what it booked things you've heard, like people are here. In this case, everyone's here. Yeah. But the, the bravery of this character, the bravery and I texted Kate as well. I was just like, you guys absolutely destroyed me in that scene. They both were so exceptional. It's such a special moment and like it was so simple. It was so present. And I think the juxtaposition of like wanting this for her and for him, for them, for their family. Yeah. Like not letting that override the truth of the moment, which you're right, was super generous of Kevin in a way of like, and he says as much to his mom after he's like, I couldn't lie to her. Right. I could not lie to her. And it's like, that's a standup human. Absolutely. And it's a standup human from her perspective is well going, not going through with it. Right. As she says as much like it could have been so easy just to walk into this life that like miraculously was sort of just laid in front of me. Yeah. And he's so easy to fall in love with. But she's like, basically, thank you. You were the one that has helped me realize my own value. There you go. And what I want and what I deserve. And I deserve for someone to be in love with me. And she does. And, you know, we do see next season, like she does eventually find that. We don't know their story. She says whatever, but like, she does end up somewhere with someone who clearly was in love with her, is in love with her. And she has that. And it's like, yes, that is truly what everybody deserves. I'm also in terms of the show, like I find none of us are in this boat and none of us hopefully never will be. I think co-parenting and not being in the same household seems like one of the trickiest things so daunting that exists in the world. Yeah. And I think that like, it's nice to see an example of like, I think these guys can pull it off successfully. There's love there. There's no bitterness underneath it or whatnot because the people that suffer in the situation are probably the kids more than anybody else. Yeah. Like, when I see it, when I see people have to do it, and there's apps that you have to use to make sure that, like, you know, the lawyers know that this, I said this on this day and out of that, it all gets recorded and switched over like, shit ain't easy. That doesn't sound fun at all. So I'm wishing them the best and I'm wishing all of us the best. - Yeah, that's not it anybody. - No, no, no, no. So that's the culmination of that, is Madison understanding and standing on business with regards to her own worth and saying, you know what, maybe this is not our path. We'll go back a little bit, let's go cutobie-wise. And they're getting ready to go to the wedding. It's all exciting. Toby's also excited to share some good news. - Got a job offer. - Got that motherfucking job offer. We've got to be gone 50% of the time. - Oh my god. - It was 60% three out of the five days, right? And there's a little bit of a pause on Kate's of being like, oh, you know, I'm not sure. And you're like, listen, I need the job. And you're like, we've been making it work, you know, we've been making it like, no, no, no, no. It's beyond just the money. - I need the job. - I need this job. - Yeah, I mean, I like our kids, but. (laughing) (laughing) - She was like, let me digest that for a second. I like our, I love our kids, but. - I mean our messed up children are fine and all, (laughing) but daddy needs some work-y time. If you catch my drift. - What's it tough for you having it come out of your mouth? - Yes. (laughing) - Especially as like a new, new parent. - Yeah, I was always hard to deliver it with a straight face. - I mean, I like our kids, but, you know. - Is it, is it, and I get that you have a specific- - Not a butt, it's an ant. - And, it's understandable. - Sure, sure. - 100%. - Kids are annoying and shit. - Stop! - You know what I mean. - No, that's not it. - You go what I mean. - You tell me, tell me, tell me what you call it. - Don't try to incriminate me on this topic. - This is what we're talking about. What we're talking about is, and Ryan and I have this conversation all the time. Both love being parents. Both love our children. - Yes. - And there are still other things that we wish to contribute to in life that give us fulfillment to God. - That's right, yeah. That's right, that's right. - That's right, that's right. - That's right. - That's all he was saying, Kate. (laughing) - It is important to honor that as well. - Yes, honor it. - It makes you a better person, and a better parent, and better everything. - Honor and cherish. - Yeah. - 'Til death do us heart, Kate. - It's the like direct eye contact into the camera that really gets me. - It's going, it's coming. - Just evil presents you to camera. - Yeah, definitely. - Kate. - At this point then, so she after this, she calls up Phillip and says like, I'm gonna withdraw my, well I'm gonna quit. My husband's about to take a job and we're gonna need daycare, gonna be at home, et cetera. And he's like, you know what? I really didn't want to hire you for this job, right? I was very much against it, but it turns out. - You're really good at it. - And the students love you, you're talented. - You know what I'm saying? And so you know what? My answer is no. - Yeah. - Resignation rejected. - And once in a while your jokes are kind of funny. - That's right. (laughing) - But can you really do that? Can you reject a resignation? - I've seen it on TV a couple of times. - On TV. (laughing) - TV loves it, TV loves it. - I'm like, is that a real thing? 'Cause can someone just come back and go, no, but I'm re-signing. - They can, but it does give her a moment. It does give her a moment. - How the world works now? - Well I never got a resignation. - It does give her a moment to reconsider. - Sure, of course that is the idea. - We're just basically all of that easy. - I unresign you. - You don't resign. - I'm resigned. - You don't resign until I say you resign. - So. - You know what else says that is, Justin Hartley. - That's yes. And yes. - It's one of the many things they have in common. (laughing) - Dad. - Oh, dad. - He doesn't have to watch you. Just the head, just the head. - Oh man. - You're watching, hope you're watching early on Hulu. - Come on. (laughing) - Daily on Hulu phone. - I know, I know, I know this used to be an audio format but get into 2026, we're on Bidjiya baby. (laughing) - I cannot, true, I cannot. - So then there is the conversation between the two of them. But is it precipitated before, this can't have a flashback? - Oh, she has a flashback to the wedding, right? - To your wedding and just sort of like the exchanging of bows. - Yeah. - And that sort of thing. - Are you with food poisoning? - Yeah. - Oh, I got that. - I'm a pale Toby in those scenes. I spent all day in the fetal position in my trailer. All right, you're up. It's in that suit, in that suit. - I'm unfurled. - Hot. - Do you remember what you ate? - I don't, I don't, it was something from the breakfast. - Okay. - From the breakfast truck. - Food poisoning is the worst. - Try it, try it in a fat suit. (laughing) - I get into the restroom real quick in a fat suit. - And a tuxedo. - And a tuxedo and in a trailer and in a canyon. - With no reception. - Yeah, with no reception, yeah. - I'm sorry, I'm sorry that happened. - He's a, it's not easy being green. - Not easy being green. - So then, so here's my quid list. They have the conversation saying like, you know, you say I'm gonna quit the job, right? You know, I don't wanna be away from my family and she says no. No, you need this, right? I see that you need this and you're gonna take that job. And I'm not gonna quit my job. - We're gonna figure it out. - And you're like, how's this gonna work? And you're like, you know, we figure this shit out, right? My question is like, as somebody's been married for 20 years and like, I have gone through distance in the relationship. When we were, I was doing army wives, working in Charleston, South Carolina, right now at the six week rule. And like through experience, I was like, too long. That's too long, right? You start to become too accustomed to being single people who are married, but that the married parts almost feels like it's in quotation marks and it's not, you know, sharing. - Rachel and I have lived apart for six weeks while being in the same house. You know what I mean? Marriage is hard. - I mean. (laughing) - Yes, yes. So I'm wondering like, as you guys, 'cause it's hard when you know the writings on the wall, right? Like where you, but I wonder how audience-- - These guys don't know that the writing is on the wall. - The couple doesn't. - Yeah. - I think the, yeah. - The couple, the audience does. - Well, the audience has an idea, but they don't know for sure. - No, that's true. That's true, that's true. - The only thing that we have seen is that you and the future showing up at my mother's house. - Without a wedding ring and without Kate. - Without Kate. - Yeah, maybe you did have a ring on it. - Without Kate, because the Thor is at the time. - The Thor is at the time. - The river in his bed by himself. - Yeah. - But what is it, random? I'll be right there. Wait, I just need to stop real quick for the bucket of sidewalk chalker. (laughing) Getting out of this bed is too low. (laughing) He's like four years older. That's why I said, when you first showed up to the house. I was like, "Hey, tell me you need to see." He's like, "Hey, Randall." I was like, "Hey, man, you can't be too much on it." No, no, no, no, no. I'm still talking like that. (laughing) - Hey, my friend. It's been a hard seven years. - Yeah, but we have seen in seven years. You clearly work out more than I do. Early on sets. - The acting peptides, what are you doing? - A osteoarthritis. - Oh my God. - Did you? - The sidewalk chalk really did me. You got me that light. - I'll be right there. I just need to do the sidewalk chalk. - His tears go gone gone. (laughing) - Oh man. - But there's a sense of optimism in that people are willing to work it out, right? That's what it is. - Yeah, there's a optimism. - And there's also, I mean, maybe me just knowing what's coming is just like just because all of these things are right, doesn't make it right, doesn't, you know what I mean? - That's what I was thinking in my head too. - Yeah, just like, just because, you know, well, she says, and then she goes, you know, he throws out another tombstone quote and she catches it, you know, where other people haven't been catching his quotes. She catches it. Oh, these two know each other really well. And she, and he says, I love you. And she says, I know the movie goes in. And he says, no, it's for many other reasons than that. And, and I think that that's the, that that is the compassionate part of this story that the, that Dan and the writers have decided to tell us that even if all of these things are true, it doesn't necessarily mean that this is the right place for them, right, you know. - That's what, I think that's what saddest of all. - Yeah. - That's why this episode is so terrible. - It's a much sadder story. Because when someone does something wrong, - Yeah. - It's pretty undeniable to, yeah, it's clean cut. It's easy to point at it and go, oh, okay, well, that's the rupture. And it's sad and that sucks, but it's understandable why, why two people would split and not stay together after. or something like that. But in this particular case, when you're like, there was so much good, and yet it still wasn't right, it still wasn't enough, is a scarier prospect. - Do you think if a different decision had been made, at any point do you think we are saying that it could have been salvaged if there was better planning, or are we saying that like these two people were meant for each other for this season in their lives, and that season is complete? - I think the latter, 'cause I love the optimism of both of them going like, no, I'm gonna still work, you're gonna take that job, and we're gonna figure it out. I mean, I feel like that's what I would do in that situation, it sounds daunting, and we have two kids, and living apart sounds impossible to wrap your brain around, and yet let's try it, and if it doesn't work, then we figure out what the next step is, so, well, no, we figure out. - You know what, you know what, make this work? You know, you keep your job. - I'll keep mine. - I'll keep my job, we just don't keep the marriage. (laughing) - Great. - Period. - Done, deal. - Let's go to the family now. - Okay. - So, with my family, my daughter feels like a test isn't a bit of a mood, not quite understanding why she's-- - That's been for a season in a half. - Has been for quite some time, right? - In Asia, we just find out that Malik got in the three or four schools in the Philadelphia area still waiting to hear about you pin. Later on in the episode, we find out that he got in the you pin, so it's four for four, and then Malik tells us it's actually five for five. - He got in two? - I applied to Harvard, and I got in the Harvard, and if we remember Malik's baby mama lives in Boston, right? I don't know if you guys caught that. - I don't remember that. - I didn't remember that. - She lives in Boston, and she'd been coming to visit the daughter, what not, but now he's gonna possibly be in Boston in close proximity to her. That's what you're reading on there. - That's the wicked question. - It's not just that he's gone, but he's gonna be with her. - Yeah, okay. - Over there. - That's what happens, they have it. We talk to tests sort of like the whole time, hanging out with grandparents, or grandparents are very cute, by the way, they need hugs, it gets a little weird, but it's also very, very funny. - It's gonna be that. - It's so dumb. It's so dumb. - Grandpa must have hugs. - But also, for a second, I was like, oh, this context is actually really helpful, right? This is grandpa. - Yeah, and these children have never known. - It's it, another grandpa. - Yeah. - That's correct, which is, you don't get to see him in that context, for real. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. We get to the wedding venue, the test is still sort of in a mood. She does, like, you see mom trying, like, you know, 'cause she mentioned Malik, and she also mentions Alex, who's the valedictorian of their class, and the test is like, yeah. - You're seeing if we can other is special, too. - Yeah, not just the one that got into U-Pen. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so they get to place it, and after just a couple of other beats, they're just seeing tests down and dumps, bath is like, sis, what's going on? What is happening? What can I do? She's like, I feel like everybody wants me to be this version of myself that I'm not, 'cause she's wearing the wedding dress. - Yeah, the wedding banner gave her like a bridesmaid dress that-- - That she's just not feeling. She's like, I don't want to wear this. It doesn't feel like me. And she's like, let's see if we can't fix it up. And we were talking about this off camera. - TV, TV, TV, TV, TV magic. - Wait a second. But wait, I have an idea. - Yeah. - And they look at each other. - Right now, Chris is holding Mandy's sweater. - They say no, 'cause they're watching on Hulu, they're early. Hmm, come with me. - And magically. - Magically. - She's like-- - A sewing machine has been procured. - And a montage. - We don't even have a montage at this time. - No, no, but it's a slip. - Yes. - Coming down Beth's forehead. She's working that song. ♪ Everyone's watching ♪ ♪ See what she will do ♪ - Yeah, through the sewing machines. - There's like scissors and like-- - And like fabric is just fabric is flying. - Why? (laughing) - Well, it's pretty much like that because whatever she's concocted for tests is an entirely different-- - Yeah, entirely different. - Like how? - It's got a black t-shirt top attached to it or what not. - Yeah, but suddenly the embroidered part from the dress is something down in the back. - Well, it's become like a poodle spray, I don't know. - Yeah, cool lots. (laughing) Isn't that what they call? - Stress what kids like these days. It's like, you know what, nobody will let me wear cool lots these days. - Oh, that's the right word. I don't wanna be saying something like that. - No, you're right. - It's cool. - I just wanna say the word as much as possible if you give me a second. - It's about, it's contemporary as a slip. - Just gotta get into a pair of cool lots. - Cool. - Oh, God. Mom. (laughing) - People just don't understand. - I don't want to be in a dress. (laughing) - I just wanna be in a very cool way. - It's definitely not cool lots though. - It's not cool. - 100% is just a skirt. - But that is gives her a sprints of satisfaction. - You know, I'd be so puffy that they come together in the middle. - This idea that I can express myself. - Naked palazzo pants. - Here's a simple palazzo I would accept. - Here's a tangent, and I'm curious where you guys are with this because I remember when Andrew was younger, we would sometimes buy two pairs of tennis shoes, the same tennis shoe, but he would like one would be a red pair and a green pair, and we would let him wear it. He wanted to wear one red and one green. - Hot. - And I was like, it's all good. - I love it. - But I'd go to St. Louis, and they'd be like, you let the boy wear mismatch shoes? I was like, yeah. And they're like, oh, you love him do whatever he wants? I was like, no. (laughing) - But he can wear the mismatch shoes. - But like I have no qualms with him wearing like these shoes. - So I was like, you let other people tell you how to raise your kids? - Nope. (laughing) - That's right. - That's right. It became a sort of thing. I'm curious if you guys have any sort of individualistic expression that's starting to come through with your kids and their style choices. - Bear is all about pink and rainbows. - I love it. - I love that too. - It wants to be covered in. - Okay. - And so, he wears rainbows. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, I love it. Yes. - Not anything yet. - Everybody's sort of like, where's what you want? - What I pick out for them. - The biggest argument is. - They're also, they're dressed. - Oh, that's me. - Are they asked how they got this? - They're starting to like want to dress themselves. - Okay. - Which is very cute. - Yeah. - And I can also tell when dad dresses. - When. - Oh. - Okay. - How can you tell? - How can you tell? - Oh, I could just, I'm like, that green and that green. - That's cool. - Don't go together. - Yeah, you can now wear open toes for the Palazzo. - With a Palazzo or a Kool-Aid. - Or a Kool-Aid. - Like, ooh, who put them in the Kool-Aids today? - Is that a mule heel? - You wanna hear argument day that happens about two or three times a year in the Brown House is picture day. Where mom picks all the clothes and they're like, - No. - Do we have to? And I like, I try to find like some middle ground to make everybody happy. - And the answer is bro, you have to. - Yeah, you have to. - Please, I have to go to sleep with this woman. - Yeah. - Please wear these clothes. And then as soon as you can bring another pair of clothes after the picture is done, they don't like collars. They don't like buttons. And she wants little soldiers. And now she's fine, with Andrew, she's finally sort of yielded, right? He's, he's almost 15 years old. - Yeah. - With a marist, like, 'cause he's still cute and anything. Like, she'll try, but he's starting to sort of like. - We're coming up on our annual struggle. - What's this now? - It's not picture day. Picture day, kindergarten, do what you're gonna do. But we go to see Rachel's family for Fourth of July. That's when the whole family gets together. - Yep. - And they always have like a couple hours one morning where like a professional photographer comes to the house or whatever. And the whole family does the Midwestern thing of. - Dressing like. - The coordinate. - Or in like a same color. - Like the three daughters will, will send out a color scheme. - Yep. - To all the families. - Totally. - And I'm from Midwest. - Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. And yeah, and it's like four people peaking around a tree or whatever, or whatever the photo is. You all have all seen the photo. - I've always seen the photos. And somebody listening to this podcast right now is looking up on the wall at a full five person family peaking around a big open. - They're in Orange Brown and Green. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And finding it's laughing. - Yeah. - And trying to get our two kids to do it is just like, we get really great photos from it. Because what you end up getting is like really candid like tumultuous, like brooding, like this photo. Like look at this photo. - Yeah, everyone. - Like this photo is Rachel consoling. - Like. - Consoling two children. - Just take a picture. - Who don't want to take a picture. But it's the best picture I've ever seen. - It's a good picture. - It's so good. (laughing) - But yeah, it will be a full like. - Yeah. - Full thing. - I don't know, how did I get to that one? I got to that by it from the show. - Oh, 'cause she was wearing her cool hats. - 'Cause she's wearing her cool hats, right? - No. - So she's not good. - Yeah, but it's the last part of that. - Whatever moves this thing along. - The last part of that is Rebecca and Randall. And mom wanting to speak to Randall about New Orleans. And he's like sure anytime. So she finally corners him. Oh, he's blindly making a rap song up down the hallways. - Just. - Alidely. - Just having man Randall all. - Randall P. - Rappened about his free time. That's what I was like this guy is bored. What's he going to get into? Right, but I'm on a tree time. So dumb. It's so dumb. It's so dumb and here's mom from around a big oak tree. I want to talk now. Is now a good time? Let's get a coffee and catch up. So I haven't cried yet today. Want to talk? Totally. It's such an interesting thing because man, I'm curious like from your perspective, because there's two things happening at the same time. We start talking about my birth mom and you know meeting New Orleans. Yeah, meeting high and everything and she's start sort of crying. And for Randall, it's like I like this isn't about you. This is me sharing story. Was this one of those moments where you were like disagreeing with what the character was doing? No, because I ultimately knew what it was rooted. Yeah, yeah. But as if you were, I was like, Jesus Christ. It's a white woman. I'm like, I'm like, let him have this moment, man. Yeah, yeah. You interrupted his brilliant rap for this. Jesus. Like as an audience member, not remembering where this episode went. I was just like, oh, not everything's about you. Yeah, yeah. Like a little, there was a little bit of that feeling of like, where is this going? Because I don't love that she's just like, he's showing her pictures and she immediately is crying. It's like, yeah. Well, that's not not fair. He gets love. I just want to hear about your trip. Oh, okay. Well, here's just a photo. It was. It was. He's like, oh, man. He gets saved by his best man, duties, calves, they got an emergency and then we go outside and the scene that we already talked about transpires. So Randall's outside, he's like putting decorations around a tree or something like that. And there she is again. Hey, sorry about that. I'm fine now. I'm fine. I just want to see why I was crying. This is also when you're talking about like this left me feeling cleansed. Yes. This thing fell there and I let you speak to it because I wrote down I was like, I wrote down like Mandy more, you better fucking act. Like that's yeah, that's what I wrote. Yeah. And she better dead. She did. She killed that shit. You're sweet. I forgot all about this scene. Yeah. The only thing I remember about I have two anecdotes. Well, I'll get to the other anecdote later. Okay. But I remember this shooting this part of the episode because it was when Gus visited one day and I have a picture of you holding Gus. Yes. I remember. Yeah. Which I'll have to show Gus. Because now he thinks that I just host a podcast, which no shame in that. Obviously. I mean, we all do jobs beyond that. Now on head gum. Now on head gum. And Hulu. But daily early. But he's very he's very interested now in what like who I work with. And so sometimes when we're listening to a podcast in the car or song or something, our podcast will come on like kind of afterwards. And he's like, is that sterling? Is that Chris? Like he's just anyway. So I think he'll be very excited to see a baby picture of him with you. Anyway. So I remember that. But this scene I totally forgot like I forgot about. And I as an audience member, it's I was like, Oh, this feels really good. Yeah. And really appropriate. And for an episode, which I think we can all admit feels a little uneven and clunky sometimes like, I know about that. Oh, I guess I'm alone in my hot take. That's not the same. And the bus. I'm I will stand behind saying there are parts of this episode that feel uncharacteristically kind of clunky. Agreed. Okay. This was a highlight for me as an audience member. Yes. Agreed. Seeing someone someone call it a lifesaver. A very necessary conversation to happen and transpire between these two people at a very important time. I mean, I think Rebecca is very aware of the ticking clock. And I think there is relief in her knowing that her this favorite human of hers got to have this experience, something that she knows she partially robbed from him. Yeah. And so this long overdue apology was really nice to witness. Yeah. She says I'm doing things like I never gave you a reason or I never I was that I never apologized or I never gave you a reason. Oh, I wrote so much down here. Tell me what you wrote down because I'm curious. Randall and Rebecca, I've never really given you an explanation. Have I? And then I said, Mandy Moore, you're so good. No. I never so sweet. And I don't know like I'm trying to remember what the record the the the reason is per an explanation is, but it was also in it. You're saying like at no point have I ever given you the space to actually talk about what's missing. Yes. Right? Like at one point in time. So the backdrop of this one, I guess we'll have to go through this too, is that mom and dad are arguing in the past. Oh, yeah. Over the dynasty episode, right? Like that Jack steeped over. An alley that he just blindly taped over. It was a silly marital spat, but it happened in front of the kids so much, though, that it sort of jolted them into like, are mom and dad okay? Are they going to get bored? Kids are standing there like children in the corn and like are you guys going to get divorced? And like, yeah, parents argue all the time, but we love each other very, very much. And then that devolves into another argument like while you're doing it, because he says something about a silly TV show and you're like silly. And so y'all need to get married like right now, right? And you do. We have like a sweet little family wedding. Yeah. Where we kind of like all marry each other, right? Like it just sweetly like we're going to be a family forever. It's not just mom and dad. Yeah. But it's interesting because like you got we were watching or in the past you guys were watching the video, I think, and you say like at one point, I saw you looking at the video and like in my mind, I was wondering if he was thinking about his parents, like knowing that we are his parents, but his birth parents. And I still never questioned. I still never brought it up and I never allowed you this space to bring it up either. Right. Yeah. She explains why she did what she did and how she kept it from him. And you know, she also there's no real explanation and she's been let off the hook far too many times. Yeah. Talks about the family wedding looking back at Jack and Rebecca. And in her mind, she's like, I rationalized it because they were addicts. Yeah. And still I never gave you the forum to talk about it. A shame of how I hid things and the fact that it's way too late, but I need to say that I'm sorry because you were my entire world. And then I loved this. Like if I cry, it's because I know what I robbed from my favorite person, not because I'm jealous or hurt. Right. And I loved that. It was like because Randall is a rescuer as well. Yeah. And I think she's like, no, no, let me cry and know that no where my tears are emanating from. I'm not jealous or hurt when you talk about your mom and I'm crying up in the having coffee with you. Yeah. It's because I know how deeply wounded you are the trauma of robbing you from the experience of potentially knowing this person and knowing your father and that is on me. Right. And and so then she's like, so, so please tell me about your mother. Yeah. And he makes the distinction and says my birth mother, which I was like, yeah, that was good. It was good. And maybe. And then I mean, you can speak to this, but you start telling her about this trip and how it just unlocked a part of me that I didn't even know was there. Yeah, saying like, and I feel very similar to like having done skip gate show, finding your roots. And why not this, this, this connective thread. And sure, I could probably trace it back further as Randall could have probably traced things back further, but like knowing that your beginning doesn't start at the fire station, but I get there's actually something that's rooted, that's real, that like contributes in terms of nature and nurture, the nature part of me, like I have a more intimate understanding of, makes me feel like I know myself a little bit more. Totally. Right. So I think it's, it's pretty cool. Yeah. So that's, that's, I think that was a highlight. Man, you're a highlight. You're always a highlight. Not Namaste. And then we have the Pearson family coming together at the end, mom and her three kids and just sort of consoling Kev and sort of figuring out where they go from here. And yeah, I love this scene. I think this scene was a redemptive part of the episode for me as well. Yeah. I just, because I was like, oh, this is important. Like as we are buckling up for this last season, knowing that Rebecca does not have time on her side, the fact that like at the end of the day, it's still the four of them together, connected. And they need each other now more than ever. Yeah. I really loved, I, I again, that Kevin was like a couldn't lie. Yeah. And for what it's worth, I'd marry you. - Yeah. - It's very sweet. - Creepy. - It's very sweet. - I like it. - But I love that she admits like in these situations, like I used to be able to figure in your father so easily and what he would say and how he would fit in and what he would do, but it's getting harder in time, maybe with the disease, maybe with the fact that he's been gone for as long as he's been gone. - The kids try, man, he wouldn't leave you aside. He wouldn't leave cabbage. - And he wouldn't let you drink. - We'll let you drink and he lets folks know that that's, don't worry, I'm good. - Yeah, like I'm good. - Yeah. - And Kate also says you need to stay busy 'cause you're best when you're busy. - That's right. - And then Rebecca, this is the part that I loved. She was like, "I want you to build me that house, Kevin." Like the house that your father always wanted to build because the cabin was like so healing for me being there was like, that was my happy place essentially. And I think like that's what we're meant to be doing right now. Like let's build a house that we all can be in together. 'Cause what's more important than that? And he's like, I love that he so easily was like, okay. - That Kaleo song comes in hard. - It does. - It was like, this is it. - It's dramatic. - It's a dramatic song for our show. - We slam back to the beginning of where we were Kevin and the Tuxedo doing his whole marriage thing. Thinking of first that he was working on his vows. - Yeah. - But now it's like, but he didn't get married, yeah. And so he goes to like the next room and we see Madison and Beth and being like asking for-- - But first, but first we see-- - Uncle Nikki walked down the hallways like, sorry, how'd he get stockings for the wife? And you're like, the wife. - I think I missed either one to start, yes. - Oh, and we saw, we saw a picture of Randall in New York Magazine that said like a star is born. - Tamar. - And Justin Kevin says so much. Like, hey, nice article or whatever. - Yeah. - Just read your article and you make some cute little comment or whatever. But you're like, okay, so what? Definitely somewhere in the future. - What the, this is us, it's happening. - Not too distant future. They walk into this hotel room, the women make a fuss. Like, no, no, no, no, no, you gotta get out. You can't see-- - But it's Madison and Beth. - Yeah, so you're like, well, this is not their wedding. Obviously, they didn't get married. - Right. - So who's getting married? - No boys allowed. - We see Kate walk out in her wedding dress. You can do the job. - This is the last time I'm doing this. - That's right. And you're like, and you're like, this episode sucks. - And then Kevin leaves the room again and we see-- - We see Philip coming out of a bed. - And he goes, you know, mind if I make a few British jokes, you know, on your behalf or whatever. And Philip says, if you can't take the piss out of your new brother-in-law, who can you take the piss out of? - Right? That's what he says. - Yeah. - As the demon barber of Fleet Street. - Yeah. (laughing) - Go ahead. Get in. Go on, go. That's what he says. - If you're not watching this podcast, you're truly missing out on the most delightful. - At the end of the episode. And that's the end. - We were just going to leave an audience hanging. - It's not the end of this episode because now we're going to get a chance to talk. - To the demon, himself. - To the demon barber of Fleet Street. - To the demon barber of Fleet Street himself. We're going to have a visit from Chriskeer. - From Chriskeer. - The dear, the lovely Chriskeer. - The most delightful. - Stick around, we'll be right back. - So this week's episode ended with one of the biggest surprises of the entire series. A flash forward revealing that Kate eventually marries Philip. - It's crazy. - Crazy. - So we thought who better to talk to than the man himself. Today we're sitting down with actor Chriskeer to hear about his experience on this as us and bringing Philip to life. - Yeah, let's get into our conversation with Chris. - Is it gonna be a little tension? - It's gonna be a little tension. (laughing) - You know what, find out what it's like stepping into one of these shows in kind of the most unexpected of storylines. - Indeed, indeed. - Chriskeer, Chris, can you hear me? - Those. - Ah, you are slide devil, what's going on, baby? (laughing) - Well, this is lovely, isn't it? - Yeah. - Oh my goodness. It's good to see you. - Hi guys. - Hi Fred. - Hi. - Hi friends. - Oh, this is wonderful. Look at your setup. - Yeah, we got the whole thing, man. - The whole situation here. - This is, that was us. - Yeah. - Hey, it's gorgeous. Are you in LA though? - We are. - We're in LA, where are you right now? - I'm in, not so sunny Manchester. - Okay. - Ah. - Do you live in Manchester, you around? Like, is that, is that home right now? - We do, yeah, it's home at the moment. I'm hoping to go out soon, especially 'cause you've got the soccer world cup coming up. - That is true. Sterling's pumps. - I'm very excited. - You're speaking his language. - Very excited. - It is, it is gonna be crazy. I didn't realize, but it's gonna be on for like six weeks. - Yeah. - It's long. - I am either. - It's all over the country, right? And even a couple of games I believe in Mexico is where. - And Vancouver. - And Vancouver is where? - Yeah, so it's all North America. - Yeah. - You were in Los Angeles though, when did you go back to the UK? - We went back, we kind of made the decision when my son was about to start senior school. - Oh, okay. - So he's 13 now. So we were like, it's such a long commitment and we didn't know whether we were gonna be staying or going in everything. So to put him in a school in LA seemed a bit of a risk. So we came back and then I got a couple of jobs over here and that kind of just kept me here for a bit. - The social, the social and political climate here in the US wasn't inviting hookah. Didn't feel. - No, it's not much better, it's not much better here. - Fair enough, fair enough, fair enough, the world is burning collectively. - Yes, it is, good. - Okay, good, good, good, good to know. Can you ask that? - I was asked, before we get into your specifics with Philip and the show, with this is a micro and then we'll go back up to the macro. I remember talking to Chris, when we were going through the whole storyline of the dissolving of Katobe. - Yeah. - The beginnings of what do we call fate? Philip, K, I don't, you like that? - Faith. - You like that? - Faith. - As not too bad. You came up with that of the wedding scene, actually, because Kofilip didn't really ask for very good of it. - It doesn't flow quite in the same way. - Yeah, yeah. - But what, so I guess we're going to ask this question about what's it like stepping into this very unexpected storyline, what kind of feedback you got from folks. But I wanted to start with Chris because Chris, I remember having, there's a Sullivan, excuse me, 'cause you guys both knew, - Sully, Sully, I should say, was like things are weird. - It's tough. - It's tough for me. - Because it was a cross-fade, right? - Yeah. - Like it wasn't a clean break. It wasn't like our marriage ended and this new storyline started. - Yeah. - It was like because of the way our show works, bouncing through time. - Totally. - It was a cross-fade. - Yeah, do you know what was really interesting? I watched your last episode where Philip comes in for the first time. - Yeah. - You said Sully at the time that both you and Chrissy knew what was gonna happen. - Yeah. - So in the audition, I didn't. - Oh yeah. - And Dan Fogelman had no idea that I was a super fan of the show. - Oh wow. - So when we were running the scenes and they would, Chrissy, or the first audition was just me and the casting director and then the recall, the kind of screen test effectively, was on the paramount a lot in the Pearson's house. - Wow. - Just outside, which was incredible, daunting, but incredible. And so Dan Fogelman and the casting director and Chrissy, and we were just reading the scenes from the school, doing the deaf school. So they had nothing to do with a romantic storyline whatsoever. - Yeah. - And we were doing those scenes. And I remember the dialogue was harsh. He was, Philip was being, like you said, a bit of a prick. - Yeah. - And I was like, he's not very nice this guy, is he? And Dan said, Dan said, you're not gonna like my next note. I want you to make him meaner. (laughing) And I was like, ah, come on. People are gonna hate, people are gonna hate this guy. And then Dan goes, you're gonna hate me even more now. He actually is partly during the break up of Katobi. And my inner actor, my inner actor, my inner actor was like, yeah, stay professional, just nod and go, yeah, see that's an interesting storyline. But the fan in me went, no! (laughing) - Cute. - And there was a tiny part of me, it was like, I can't be, I can't be a part of this. - This is a, oh, healing. And you know, this was the most kind of heralded relationship on TV, that's what I was like. And so to be a part of that, was crazy. And I thought, I thought, oh no, oh no, A, I'm gonna be hated. - Were you in it, what did you receive? What kind of feedback from the world did you get? Not nothing negative at all. Which is like a big which was really nice. Yeah, apart from my neighbor, who is also my neighbor in Manchester Who is a huge fan as well of the show? Yeah, and I hadn't seen I'd been in LA for probably six months and came back and I was greeted with Every morning as you leave the house So I hate this Philip guy. I was like, yeah, I'm trying to I'm trying to find ways to like him as well This is amazing. Okay, so this is I'm glad you got to share that that thing because I remember I remember it used to be in like There'd be times especially in the last season where we'd all be together. Yeah, I gathered for the wedding and like Sully was not there and it's like It is strain. Yeah, and I think did we meet in the makeup trailer? Maybe for the first time where we just kind of looked at each other and we're like, well, here we are Yeah, here we are and luckily you had your beautiful Sun with you at the time who was pretty young actually yeah, yeah, and That kind of broke the ice a little bit because I was meeting you, but I was also meeting him Yeah, so it was it was like hey buddy while slightly looking up and going Like everything well, this has to go well. He's not good. Nothing bad's gonna happen always holding up Exactly, but funnily enough that same day that I was in I wasn't I wasn't shooting. I was just having a a makeup test with Sully and I went in and the first thing Sully said was oh there is the new Miguel And I went what you mean she went well now you're the most hated Yeah, I have to I have to caveat this with the fact that everyone was so supportive with brilliant And do you know we had to you know Sully we had to do that photo shoot with you mean Chrissy yeah, yeah, that was Helpful. What was this? What's this? It was we were all gathered. I don't remember what it was for maybe entertainment Weekly kind of it was for your entertainment weekly, and it was the solo shots, but they wanted something fun with the three of us. Yeah, and I was looking looking for pockets of opportunity to break the ice with everything. Yeah, but it was really like that that photo shoot was like But like early early on I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah way before we started filming anything I think Chrissy felt more awkward than anybody. That's very Chrissy. This is this is like a Chrissy's energy takes on whatever and she can't hide anything Like she want to play poker with Chrissy because you know exactly where you stand Yeah, and she'll tell you firsthand. She's like I don't necessarily want to feel everything. I just can't help it But feel everything so like the dissolution of this the coming together that like it's not just like Kate that's going through it It's Chrissy. Yeah, she's feeling it all there. Yeah, sure. Totally. There wasn't there was a role there to play to be supportive to the situation. Yeah, as well as a do justice to the storyline because I think All of us I was relatively new, but all of us were super sad towards the end of the show anyway. Yeah, you had all those feelings Plus you had the huge storylines going on with Rebecca and and and this breakup. Yeah, and I said to Chrissy at one point that I said please talk to me about anything If you're feeling kind of weird about anything and she told me all the times you said I've got this Got this energy here this kind of bucket full of tears that are ready to come out. Yeah, and I don't know when they will and I said well I think you know everyone's feeling like that and it's okay if you if you want to have a cry Yeah, it was a super emotional time, but amazing. I mean that wedding that you were talking about selling with Everyone that everyone was there apart from Sully. Yeah Yeah, we were shot in I was not invited you well Well, and then we also shot their wedding. Uh-huh, Kate and Philip's wedding didn't that's what I'm talking about. Oh, I thought you were talking about Passa Robles. That wasn't Passa Robles. I thought it yeah. Oh gosh, yes, of course. Sorry. I was like mixing I get confused. There's too many weddings on the show. I understand. Yeah, we just watched Kevin's this is right wedding not near wedding not come to fruition. Correct. Correct. Also real quick. Just a The people who live there Call it Passa Robles. Oh, maybe it's Passa Robles And I think you're mispronouncing the name of your city. Well, I think it's Passa Robles Yeah, and there's sort of an angle sizing that happens. Yeah, give it give it the Robles I mean, I think it deserves the Robles. That's a very white history of taking the Spanish and the Native American names and saying Yeah, yeah, Passa Robles. Yeah, I'm just saying what was quite quite surreal about that If you remember, we all stayed in the hotel that we were filming. That is correct. So my My bedroom was literally you don't put up the balcony and you'd be on set If you're getting you go out for your morning coffee and get Mike's up at the same time Okay, so wait, let me go back a little bit because you talked about being a fan of the show which I did not know Like so you had been watching The whole time and and when the opportunity to come up on the show came to you You were like actively watching or you catch up once you got the audition sort of thing I had a meeting on the Paramount lot with the casting director when you guys were shooting season one Oh, wow wow really and I saw the signs Because Mandy and I had actually screen tested for something years and years ago and I was like oh wonderful What are we screen tests for? We screen tested for the family thing that you do with Sean Levy Oh Okay, a TV pilot TV pilot Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, and that was probably on the 12 years ago. Yeah, along and I thought this is ours and I'd read that Mandy was in it and I wondered whether I bump into her and then I was Um, and I was going oh, she probably won't remember me anyway Let's go and then the show came on TV my wife and I totally hooked from they won So we start watching that then I moved to America when I'm doing you're the worst and modern family at the same time yeah, and we moved to we moved to LA and It was it was just pre-COVID and I started doing this manifestation thing right which is I'm quite big on Anyway, yeah, it went really deep on it I listened to Mandy's back catalog hundreds of times. I had Try my best love I'm on repeat which is great either picture of a topless Justin Hartley on my fridge. Yeah, but that's all of us All of us this is a is a hunt. Yeah, and I started like hoping for this opportunity Then finally enough Just before the audition. I had I was doing an episode of hacks, you know, the yeah I was doing an episode of that which was on the paramount lot. Yeah, and um, I finished that day and then got the Email about the audition for this is us And so the following week I'd finished hacks and I went back to the lot to have the audition and it went from there Wow, and then I knew that because Philip was only in a couple of episodes since One season and then the fall next season right um It was such a whirlwind and just When you guys asked me on the show. I said I had a wonderful time kind of reminiscing about how it all came into place Yeah, just that's wonderful that is so cool well manifested. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good reminder to all of us Has it have you done that manifestation? Many other jobs in terms of just no Just reminded myself. I need to put more naked pictures right men on my fridge. Yeah, I'll send you some I'll send you some Any so from from the experience from beginning to end Tell me the things that stick out the most for you the jumping back in time was a really interesting thing to do yeah um because You have to make decisions really yeah About how you are in that point. I'd come from such a place of Philip was in was such a knob right that How could I then go from someone who would actually be a good partner To Kate yeah, what is it that makes him endearing whatsoever and I always trusted the writing because the writing was just insane Yeah, and I trusted and Dan said to me There's going to be an opportunity for Philip to redeem himself. Yeah In an episode and you don't hear it obviously, but the accent helps Yeah, I'm as much as much of a As you want to be there's there's so much forgiveness in in the American heart. Yeah for the short sense of a British - He's like, it can sting, and at the same time, it's like, well, he must know what he's talking about. - And tell me more. - I mean, you could see the redemption sort of begins in this last episode of season five, where he says, like, I didn't want you to have this job. Like, I was completely and totally against it. - Well, you're really good at it. - And you'd really good at it. So it's like, this sort of charming like, so I do not accept your resignation. - Yep. - Goodbye. - Yeah. - You know, it was just like, oh, okay. And she was sort of like, what? - And as you touched on as well, another kind of like, spoke in the wheel, as it were, was that I was behind a mask as well. - Yeah. - So you really got this much to convey all this stuff. - Yeah. - Um, that was frustrating. I mean, the whole, you don't like acting with a mask on? - Yeah. - Is that your favourite? - Oh my god. That was frustrating because my, as an actor, my first, first week or so is all about getting to know everyone and introducing yourself and all this. And we were, do you remember we were in little cups? - Yeah. - You didn't like your little Plexiglass, light size action figure box? - Yeah. - Right? And we're getting, we're getting calls to go and get swabbed at 6am and we may waive to each other before we go and do that. - Yeah. - It was just a bizarre time, but it was, it was, as soon as it kind of weaned off a bit and we got to pass the robles, as you say. - That was, that was brilliant. And I got to, I got to have an, I had an opportunity to, to have a one-on-one scene with you, Sully. - Yeah. - This was wonderful. - That was great. - And the one-on-one scene with you, Sterling, which I loved as well. So it was great. The rights is just, they'd just, now let's go in on. - Yeah, they nailed it. - Yeah, really. - But before all of this, before this is us, you had done what, five years on a, on a BBC show called Waterloo Road, is that correct? And, so you had already been established, and even going further back, we were, we were reading the bio. - Your first play. - The first play with the Royal Shakespeare Company. - All's well in that as well. - You did it, you did it. - With James. - James. - Come on, bro. - Yeah. - Come on, bro. - That was insane. I was lucky enough to do Steven Colbert a couple years ago. And he was, he was talking about his first theatre thing as well. And how nerve-wracking that is. Even though I had one line. So, you know, there's only so many ways that I can mess that up. - Almost worse though. - That's almost worse. - It's so much pressure. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - It is. - And the light is coming up. - It's coming up. - Here it comes. - It's coming up. - And you go, "I did a show, no, no, no, no, no, no, no." (all laughing) - Yeah, so, but having Judy there was a real, I was only 21, I think. So, I used to, I was the right swat. I used to go and sit in the wings and watch her. She was just magical. So, with that kind of thing, - Why not? - Yeah, it was a real kind of great start. I haven't actually done any theatre since. I was like, "Right, I'm out." (all laughing) - Stop it! - You've done one play? - Yeah. - One line and one play with Judy don't. - One line and one play. - Done. - So, I think I'm like, yeah, I'm like, go down that route again. 'Cause it is amazing. It's such a different discipline as that, too. - Yeah. - To the TV. - It's been ten years since my last play. And I feel myself itching to, maybe the two of you need to talk about something. - Yeah, let's get off the road. - But if you come to the West End, we'll do a two-hand. - Oh, what? - Let's do it. I'm down. I'm down. True West. - Love it. Two brothers. I've played brothers to white people before. I have no problem. (all laughing) - I'd watch that. - Yeah, incredible. - Oh, dude. Thank you. - No, no, no. This is very plastic. - This is easy. - Yeah, is there anything else that, like, when you think about your time on the show, like anything that sort of comes to mind, something that you loved or something, a funny story, like anything. I know we're sort of jumping in time to the sixth season 'cause that's really where you came alive. Your character sort of worked the most. - The onset stuff was so kind of powerful. I found myself getting quite emotional in scenes when Philip wouldn't and that was quite interesting because I could see the heartbreak in Kate and as an audience member and fan, I was like, I hate this. And quite often, I would be told to reign in the emotion, to kind of, you need to be more stoic here. This guy, don't be afraid to be like this. - The only time in the history of this is us. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Don't be emotional. - Don't be against it. - Yeah, don't be afraid to be unemotional. And that was really tricky. And a lot of the stuff was just Chrissy and I for a long time. So meeting everyone else was a real joy, actually. I love that. Do you remember, this is quite a funny story, but when we were doing the wedding stuff, it was someone's idea to do this dance. - Oh yeah. - Yeah, the TikTok stuff. - The viral? Yeah. - Yeah, the wobble. - Yeah. - We did the wobble. - Yeah. - We did the wobble. - Yeah. - And that was interesting because I remember doing the wide shots for the wedding scene and I wasn't saying anything at the time, but all I could think of was, is it left then right? - Yeah. - Or is it right, right, left. - The important thing. - That was probably one of our most viral things that we put out there. - Yeah. - I mean, it was pretty fun. - It was a lot of fun. - That was the best part I think of the show where those moments where we all could be together. - Yes. - There was just this collective energy that pulsated through all of us just sort of getting to be around one another and for a special occasion 'cause it was really reserved for holidays or a wedding, some sort of celebration or party or something. And it was just, it was always the best. - My favorite thing was always like, at Paso Robles, we were there with everybody else who was at the resort and they would see folks together and they get very excited or whatnot. And I always wanted to say, well, here's the guy who made the show 'cause Dan gets to move through - The world. - With like nobody seeing anything I was like, no, no, you guys want to give some love. Give it to this guy. - Give it to this dude right there, because. - And then Dan just pulls his hat down for her there. It's like, I, you know, I make some like self-deprecating girl. - All right, well that makes Kate's new husband. This is fresh. - Yeah, exactly. (laughing) - Gere, thank you for making time for us. Is there anything that people can catch you in coming up or that's out now where they can see, catch you on socials? - I have a couple of things that are soon to be released, that are not yet released, but keep an eye on the old socials. - Which are? - Yeah. - Yeah, what are you working with, Andy? - Which are at CWGear. - That's right. - CWGear. - G-E-R-E. - G-E-E-R-E, yeah. Follow me. - Oh, that's lovely. (laughing) - Oh, you're the best. - I miss you. - You're right, you're the best. - You're so good to see you. - The best to you. - Oh, you're the best, guys. - Thanks, Chris. - Thank you. - Thank you. - All the best to you. - Bye, guys. - Have a wonderful day. - You too, man. (upbeat music) - Dude, Gere's a good guy. - Yes. - Such a great guy. - Yes. - I know it must have been so strange for you because like, here's this person that is coming in to occupy the space that you have filled. - It was. - It was weird. I didn't expect it to be weird. - Yeah. - And then it was. - Yeah. - The same thing sort of happens to me or like, I heard Sue express this one time. When Randall was going through like the different versions of life with his therapist and she saw him with other women. - Yeah. - Like, Sue, okay. Why are you kissing his other woman? - Yeah. - Yeah. - She's like, you're one. - This is my space, you know what I'm saying? - Yeah, it was an interesting, interesting experience that I hadn't really thought about in a very long time. - That's the end of the season. - Yes. - I don't know if we have the end of the season five. - It's the end of the season five. - Which means we have one season left. 18 episodes about a being, about a boom. We know things are gonna be happening. We know that we're gonna see the disillusion of a marriage. - Yes. - Right? - Yes. I know that Mandy more directs her first episode. - Yes. - In season six. - I know you. - Me as well. - Christopher, also Christopher Joseph directs his first episode, but I was saying yours in particular because it focuses on the disillusion of Cotobi, right? - Yes. - So though, like I want, like as an audience member, a pure audience member, I want it to like, are you fascinated? Are you saddened? Are you like a little bit of both as you're waiting in this hiatus for season six because you know you're gonna see it, but you don't want to see it. Like all this stuff. - I felt like, yeah, like it was really buckling up to be brutal. - We also know, listen, it's also season six and we've been telling the audience for a long time. Even though people are probably silently hoping that it goes beyond, but we know. - This is the end. - So we also know that all the flash forwards that we've seen at this point in time, it's like, oh, this is, we're gonna see that as well. We have seen you in the bed, right? So we know basically that like that we are at Rebecca's death bed. So like I can only imagine, like there's one thing as a cast member knowing all this stuff, but like as the audience who is waiting and whatnot, you're waiting, I don't think there's hope that she's not gonna pass away. I think you know that part. - You've seen her in the bed. She's 122. - Yeah, it's also like this is just what life is. - Yeah, this is what life is. But what I like about what the show does is while it's, we're not afraid to deal in the dark parts of life, but we also don't keep the light out either. - That's right. - Do you know what I'm saying? I think the beauty of the show, and it's own sort of like-- - And it's like the beauty of Dan's ethos. - It really is, that's right. - Listen, you're on the land right now. I'm on Paradise right now. My man has created a post-apocalyptic world, but hope is still central to the show. Do you know what I mean? You're gonna deal with the NFL, and I'm sure it's gonna be gritty and like hitting the NFL completely that way. - But it's still Dan, and the heart of who he is is like constant, I think, in whatever he creates. - Yeah, yeah. - That would agree. So gang, so off we go. - Off we go, into the next season. - We'll see you guys in a little bit. Shall I say it, man, if you don't mind, please. That was us. That was us, his film that rabbit-grinned studios and produced by rabbit-grinned productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. - That was a hit-gum podcast.