Kesha: Serve C*nt & Prevail

-What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy, Daddy. -Casha, welcome to Call Her Daddy. -Thank you. I'm so excited. I am so excited. You are Grammy-nominated musician. You have put out truly some of the most popular songs of all time, and you have been in the public eye for almost two decades. You have had some incredibly high highs, some really low lows, and I feel like through it all, you have just been and be continued to become such an inspiration for women everywhere. And I'm a fan, so, like, so happy to be with you today, seriously. -Really happy to be here, too. -Is this true? I heard you're doing samurai training? Oh, yeah. I just did a samurai training, yes. How does one get into samurai training? Well, well, that is a long story, but let's just say there's a place called Samurai Island, and you can go and, like, really learn the wisdom of the samurai. Believe this gentleman is 64th generation samurai, and a huge thing I got out of taking the samurai class was you're not supposed to think with your head, you're not even supposed to think with your heart, you're actually supposed to think literally and listen to your body and your gut. The samurai training comes as one of the many things I do for healing. And, like, my healing journey has been mythological, but it's also been so fun. Like, it led me to samurai training. That makes so much sense, because I was, like, samurai training. Like, how did we get there? But it's actually crazy to even hear you explain that because I feel like as women, we can be so disconnected from our body understandably, so to have you doing something that is forcing you to be, like, in your body, leading with your body, and what's like the end goal of the samurai training? Well, my end goal is I actually ended up making up with the samurai's assistant. No, but that didn't mean to be my end goal. You're like, I want to kill all my enemies with my samurai, sorry. You're like, oh, just to get a good make out. I was just the goal in all of it, I think, is to live a joyful life in my body, in my power, presently, with gratitude, inauthenticity. That's the goal of everything I do these days, as you should. Before the samurai training, before being a musician, you were focused on school, and you plan to study religion at Barnard, which is like a top tier school in the United States. What do you think you would be doing right now, had you kept going with that direction? Well, it's so interesting because I actually have been considering going back to divinity school. You're so fucking interesting, I'm like, but I have been flirting with the idea of going to divinity school because I'm so fascinated with the structures of humanity and what makes people do the things that they do, and what do people believe in, and how to live a beautiful life in the light. I'm so fascinated with that. I used to have my mom drive me from church to church, and she's like, who's child are you? I just wanted to find community. I love community. I love creating community. I think community is really important. Of course. Do you have any daily rituals or practices that you engage in every day? Yes, I do. I wake up, and the first thing I do is listen to a gratitude meditation by Dr. Joe D'Spenza. I recommend. Then I got side, and I try to be naked in the sun for 20 minutes. Do you have a private backyard, or what's up? I don't know. Do I? You're like, wherever I can get the sun? Well, that's actually like being comfortable in my nudity is kind of an active resistance, too, because after being a pop star from 2009 to current present day, I have almost just started waging a war against my own body due to things I read about myself, and I just internalize this, like, all these external voices. So to then be in my body enough to just be like, fuck it. I'm going to be naked in my backyard, and I'm going to call my tour the tits out tour. Like, that is also an active resistance. Like, I don't hate my body anymore. I actually love my body, and I went to Italy, and I like ate a lot of pasta, and I love it. Like, it's so country to just like be in your body and love it, and it's so hard. It's so hard, and the world does not want you to do that. Isn't it so fucked up, though, that I feel like sometimes it takes us having such horrible shit happen to you as a woman, where you're pushed to the point of seeing that you can't win no matter what. You have been literally dragged through the mud in every direction, and then you're like, at some point, I think I got to just decide, like, I'm not going to have it, but like, it's so horrible that we, it takes us to the end of the earth essentially to be like, now I can stand outside in the sun and fucking naked and be like, oh, yeah, I'm fucking love my life. I'm like, I don't care if somebody can see who gives a shit. Who gives a shit? That's something I wish somebody told me. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Like, they might care for like a headline, but like, nobody actually cares. We all think everyone is so consumed with what we're doing. They're not. They don't care. I mean, I have been through so many things, and I like was walking around like, oh my god, everyone knows that you can probably Google a picture of my butthole. Probably. Like, so many of the things in my life are on the internet that should not be on the internet. Don't know how I got there. Don't like that it's there, but you could probably do it. So I'm walking around being like so much like embarrassment. Then I kind of realized like, nobody cares. Nobody cares. Okay, you had it's interesting upbringing in the sense that your mom chose to have you on her own. There was no man romantically involved in her life. When you got older, how did she talk to you about this? Well, I met, I've like met some of the people that may be my birth father. Okay, but she really wanted a Pisces. So here I am, triple Pisces. And so I have met some of the people that might be my birth father, and she was like, who do you look more like? And I was like, mom, no, stop, stop it. But so yeah, that's how. And can you explain your mother wanting a Pisces? What are some characteristics? Well, the Pisces, supposedly it's like the last in the cycle of the astrological signs. So like, we're the last, I've been told I'm in my last lifetime, multiple times. We're very emotional, we're very in touch with like all things spiritual. We're like one foot in the ether vibes. So you believe in past lives? Oh yeah, I have a song called Past Lives. What do you think you were doing back then? I think I was burned at the stake. I definitely was a man. And I like have, this is like a delusion that's helped me in a lot of ways, but I like to think that I am the reincarnation of Athena. So as you should, you know what, whatever works. You're like, you also can just decide what your past lives were. Whatever you think is like the countryest thing, that is who you fucking were in your past life, bitch. Okay, so you weren't necessarily raised by any male figures in your life. What did your mom teach you by being kind of this like single mother role about independence? I mean, it taught me so much. I'm so grateful. I saw a woman that just did it all. Like she wrote iconic songs. She wrote songs for Dolly Parton and Johnny Cash and like, she's so cool and she raised three kids all on her own. And she also is like really instrumental in like the positive, the power of looking at your life positively and deciding who you want to be and what you're going to do. She really always was like, don't say like, oh, maybe I'll be a pop star. She said like, I'm going to be a pop star like this. It's like a little delusional, but it also worked to really believe in yourself. Was she at all hesitant about you getting into this crazy industry? Um, I think she she always warned me that it was hard. Yeah. But I like literally was yodeling by the age of three in the backyard. Like she would be like, you're so loud. Go yodeling the backyard. And so I'd be like wandering around the backyard yodeling. She's like, what is she going to do? Like I knew what I was supposed to do. I came out of the womb yodeling. Like that's do you still yodel? I mean like in TikTok that, oh, is like my weird spooky monster mash voice version. of a yodel, kind of. - So you brought it into your adult life, and into your music, just like in a little bit of a different way than when you were three. - Listen, I don't know. - Whatever that is, I did that. - We're not mad about it. - Okay, you blew up when you released the song, TikTok, back in 2009. I need you to know, I don't know what it was. It was some type of thing that you could submit a music video to, and then you could try to win. - I made one. - Are we gonna watch it? - No, no, no, I'm like, roll the clip. - But I made my dad take my best friend, Kristen and I to New York City, and we made a full TikTok music video. I actually was kind of good. - Spoiler. - I think we have to see it. - I didn't win. - I'll pull it up for you after. - Yeah, I'm gonna send it to you, 'cause it's not embarrassing, 'cause I know the type of person you are. You'd be like, like, we, yes. Like, get it bitch, brace face, love it. But I was a huge, like, I was in it. Like, I was there, I was loving it, and I just remember that era so clearly. So I wanna go through a couple, walk down memory lanes with you. There's some pictures next to your chair, reach down and pull them up. Okay, I want you to just tell me what you feel by looking at these pictures. And what do you remember? - Ah, I'm like so happy about it. I'm really happy about this. I'm like, yes, you know what? Fuck yeah. Like, I was having fun. And I like did not give one single fuck what anybody thought. - That was Jingle Ball 2009. I also think your makeup and just the hair and everything the outfits were so iconic. How did you come up with the glitter and the mascara? - Oh my gosh, okay, to be honest with you, I grew up like seeing my mom be this single parent and loving like punk music and rock and roll, like Bowie and Iggy Pop and the Stones and Alice Cooper. So this is like inspired by Alice Cooper and Bowie. And I just always remember thinking like, if a boy can do it, why can't I do it? And one of the first albums I listened to a lot was License to Ill, Beastie Boys, those produced by Rick Rubin, who I later got to work with. And like, I just remember really being attracted to people that were like, okay being like a silly fucking crazy goose. And I was like, I wanna be a silly crazy goose. I don't wanna be like, like I'd go to school and everyone like straight in their hair and I'd be like, I don't wanna, I wanna do it purple. And like, I don't know if that maybe psychologically is because there was like no man in the house, but like I was just, I wanted to like, be a silly fucking crazy goose. - Do you think? - Yeah. - Did you keep any of that style still? Like is anything in your closet that resembles that era? - I mean, there's like, I walked in here with heels and I was like, ma. - Throw all my fucking converse, I'm done with this shit. Okay, next one. Oh my god, that was my first Grammy's. - Interesting Bieber. That was like the, we came out basically in the same 12 month cycle. And I, yeah, I remember like, we would always be at the same jingle balls. I was in like a radio show in Europe somewhere and we would always see each other and he was just like the heartthrob of all heartthrob. - Yeah. - And, but I did remember being like, so insecure walking in this dress and heels. I felt like I looked like like a baby giraffe that was just born, like not in a cute way. - No way. - Like in a way where I was gonna topple over on the Grammy stage. - You look amazing. - Thank you. I actually do look amazing. I just remember being so terrified at like a lot of, when you're like launched into pop-starting, it's like so fun, but at least for me, it was terrifying. I don't know if other girls have this experience. - What were you scared about? - I was just like, it was just so intense. Like it was so intense. I came from like very, very humble beginnings in a very young and life and then Nashville and then like launched into this and it was just like, it was intense. It was like, you're being seen in such an intense way that it's just kind of intense. - Yeah, it's like going from that to then 2010, you're standing, you're presenting an award at the Grammys with the biggest star in the world. - In the world. - And you're like, hello. - And I'm walking in heels, which spoiler alert, I don't fuck with heels. Okay, I do it. If I'm on a red carpet, so my leg looks nice from this side, it's the only time I do it. I'm usually barefoot and naked, okay? And so then you have to like walk out on stage in these giant heels. - And those stages are hard to walk out. - Oh, hi, everyone's like, we're gonna give your shoes a seven out of 10. I'm like, why, and I can't walk? And like, it's just stressful. - Oh my God. No, you and Baby Bebes, they're really cute. Okay, next. - I'm so proud of him, by the way. I saw his, I wasn't at Coachella, but I'm so proud of what he just did. - Me too. - I just have to say that. - Yeah, I haven't seen him in forever, but like, very proud. - Incredible. - Amazing work. - Amazing. - Um, fun, fun. - High recommend. This is the show that I just put on last year. It was my first tour as a free woman. It's the biggest tour I've ever done, period. And I'm independent, period. - Congratulations. - Thank you. And it was like, that felt so fucking good. Not that you're like, even turning around to be like, looking at your past, being like, fuck you all, look what I'm able to do, but there must have been some feeling of just like, oh my God, I'm so happy that I've proven to myself and to the world, like, I'm still here, I still fucking got it. - What was like, after almost 10 years in a litigation, and you just, it's, you know, I was like, maybe, maybe that's, that's what it was. Maybe like, this part of my life, like, that was awesome. And like, but maybe that's part of the past. And like, I'm so grateful if I got to live that, like, who gets to say that? And then to go on this tour, it's gonna make me emotional for real. Oh, it's stopped, absolutely not, are makeup. No, it's okay, you can cry, but like the makeup, you know? To be able to like, go on stage and see like, tens of thousands of people that quite frankly like have seen some major ups and major downs, I still wanna show up. And, you know, just as like a person to like feel still worthy and lovable. And it like really did something for me this tour. I feel like I probably got way more emotionally out of this tour than anybody else. Like, I can walk through the world. I walk through the world in a different way because of all the people that showed up for me. And I hope that I also like was in service of them. That was my intention, but I think accidentally everybody that showed up for this tour did like this incredible act of healing for me. Well, even, and I know we don't need to get into the details today, but like, even when you say like nine years, nine years of your life, almost a decade of your life, you are locked into a legal battle where you are fighting for the right for your voice. Yeah. And then to get out of that and to look out into a crowd and see people there who are just waiting to see you again. Like, how do you feel when you look back at that time of your life to then know the tour eventually came and you didn't get free? Well, it was so interesting. I mean, just to give a little bit of context, I signed the record deal I was in when I was 18 years old. I got found when I was 17 and I signed the record deal at 18 years old. And this record deal signed away the rights to my voice and likeness in perpetuity in the universe. Okay. So things happened. It didn't feel appropriate for me to remain in the situation I was in. So I did spend nine years in litigation fighting for the rights to myself back. And it's just like spiritually and conceptually such a weird, it's like such a weird concept that somebody else can own something that's coming from inside of my body like that so weird. And it just never, I never like could understand it really like spiritually speaking. And then to really be fighting for the rights to my own voice. in my own face and my own, my me, to myself. Like, what are we talking about? And for it to go on and on and on and it was like nine years is a long time and there was a lot of support. And I'm like that support carried me through like one tweet could carry me through for months. Like one stranger in on Twitter that I should not be on Twitter. But I was and I saw them and like that would carry me for a really long time. Like little things would take me through because nine years is a long time. Like, it's a long time. It's a it's a fourth of my life. It's actually more than a fourth of my life. How did you keep yourself going through that time? Because I also am thinking about it. Like anyone listening to this. It's even when you put it that way. You're right. It's like it's from it's you. So like, I'm sure there were so many moments where you had to think like, what if this is so unjust? And like, what if I didn't win? Like, what if I didn't lose myself? Like, how did you like grapple with those emotions as a human? It was honestly, it was very hard. Like, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Like, I kind of I feel like I had to just hide because it was so hard. And I feel like I'm so synonymous with joy. And I love that. I love bringing people joy. But like, when I could not show up as that for others, because like, you can only give away what you have for yourself. And I would try like in this litigation, I would go out on tour and I would sing the hit songs. And I, I tried, but it was really difficult. It's a really, it was just a really difficult, complicated, really confusing for me even. Like, the emotions were so complicated. What do you think your dominant emotion was at that time? I was so lonely. And I was, I was so lonely in how anxious I was and how much fear I had because we're told to speak up and stand up for ourselves and say something, you know, and I had and I felt like why am I I'm getting like punished? Like, my medical records are on the internet. My therapy notes are on the internet. Every text message I've ever sent. It's on the internet. Every email I've ever sent. You know, I went to treatment for an eating disorder. Those notes that I went in to try to help save my own life. Like, those are on the internet. And I did that because I have nothing to hide. And, and I now can sit here and talk to you and realize that that's actually very freeing in a way. Some like, it kind of feels like sitting naked in my backyard, you know, where you're just like, it's, it's freedom now. But at the time, it was really like, it felt really just so bad. It felt like fucking hell. I also think this is so relatable for women. And something you just said is like, you're at a place in your life where you are radiating joy. Yeah. And you're choosing to live and joy. But the way that women can be painted is so angry when we try to stand up for ourselves. I written down a quote, you said, I grew up thinking women can be all of the things. But the one thing I really cannot be is an angry woman. Like, what did you think would happen if you allowed yourself publicly to show your anger towards this unfair situation? There was like a period right before I got treatment for my eating disorder, where Timber was a number one song in the world. And I was in my dazzled body suits with my dancers and my wig. And like, behind the scenes, I was not having fun. I was starving myself. And I like, I had this moment where I looked in the mirror and I told you, I grew up on like punk music. Like Iggy Pop. I have an Iggy pop tattoo like. And I like looked in the mirror and I'm like, what are we doing? What are we doing? What are we doing? And I canceled the rest of this tour. And I started a band called yeast infection. And I only played dive bars. Kesha, I love you. I'm pretty sure everyone was like, and she's lost her goddamn mind. And I'm sitting there thinking like, Papa Iggy Pop would be so proud of me. I'm burning it down. Fuck the man. I just, you know. And then shortly thereafter, like, I got help in treatment and trying to sort through the emotions. And like, to be honest with you, like anger is so interesting as a woman, isn't it? Like, nobody wants to see that. No, because we're hysterical and we're crazy. And it's like ugly. And I kind of like, I'm down to challenge that. Because I actually think it keeps us from being our most boundary and most powerful selves to keep us from anger because I can only speak for myself, but my anger indicates. And I feel it somatically in my body. I get anger and it means I need to make a boundary and someone is crossing a boundary. Every woman's like, you just described that better than I could have myself. Why are we not allowed to express that dominant emotion right there? That clearly, there's something underneath that you're so right where we're saying we're screaming for help. Yes. We're like, because I'm pretty sure anger is not a dominant emotion. It is a reaction to one of the emotions. We're hurt, we're in pain, we're sad. We're whatever it is that someone usually made us feel. And so I'm fucking pissed off. Yeah. And people like, no, no, no, no, no. It's just anger is just the top layer. That's ugly. And no one wants to see that. No, no one wants to see what happened. Why are you so angry? They're like, girl, that is a bad look on you. And it's like, do you want to ask why I'm pissed the fuck off? Never. No. Just be quiet. Sit down. Shut the fuck up. Well, I think that like I'm down. Well, so if I'm going to back it up, this is like why I love songwriting is because that is a safe place to go absolutely buck wild. Like, because I always think like, where is a safe place to be really fucking angry? Let me tell you where when you're screaming a song into a microphone and all your friends are like, oh my god, girls, that's great. And they're like cheering for you. Oh my god. This is why I write music. Right. Right. It's a little less like intense when it's music is like, oh, there's a Bob girl. You're like, little did you know? I'm actually fucking serious when I'm dead screaming, but like, that's the power of music. Girl. Okay, next next one. Okay, okay. I don't know what the fuck this relates to, but no. And this is where we're at. And here we are. Um, cult leader 101. Will you post this back in January? What, Kesha, what's happening here? Okay, let's what is happening. So I'm a Pisces and like statistically Pisces are great cult leaders. Okay, and we were going to Brazil and I haven't been to Brazil and forever. And I was thinking about how culture, the word culture, it's like culture. And then I was with my dancers and they were like, you're kind of our cult leader. And I'm like, what, like what's the cult? And I, my goal is to kind of create like queer church. When I was designing my show, I wanted it to feel like a pop church for all people, but specifically having had gone to church after church, have to church in my life, wanting to go to divinity school and being like part of the queer community and caring very deeply about the queer community. I wanted like one of my main goals. The last act of my show on this tour is called queer church because throughout my whole career, I would not, I wouldn't be shit if it weren't for the queer community. And as like a pop star, like I owe everything to the community. And I want to always make a safe space for all people. What do you think is the biggest misconception about you? Oh shit. Oh shit. I don't even like truly, it depends on what article you read, what era, like I don't even know. Like that's the craziest part about having everything in your life on the internet. Like truly. So it was like depends on who you ask. It depends on I have no idea. I literally don't know. And part of me is like, do I care? Because I'm so fucking solid. It's so good. I don't You know, it's so good. I like spent so much time, girl. After this litigation, I was like, not. I was truly so full of fear. Like it was in my bone marrow. And I spent so much time and energy focusing on trying to regulate myself and regulate my nervous system and heal and like, I am so fucking good with myself. And that is like a miracle. So I don't know, I don't know. People might think, I don't even know. You're like, and I don't care. I'm kind of curious, but it's kind of like going on Twitter. Like, do I want to know? You're like, what are these bitches fucking saying? What are they saying? You can put the cards down, those are perfect. Okay. I think that I want to talk about something that was very interesting and I know that, you know, you said to Monica Lewinsky and you said, during that time, you weren't able to have an orgasm because of the stress that you were under. Yeah. What has it been like reclaiming your sexuality? Oh my God, it's a miracle. It's a miracle. Do you know, should I say this? I probably should, I don't care. I'm free. I now mostly a celibate, you know, except for when you're in Italy. Like, I now, what did you just say about Italy? I'm, I'm celibate, except for when I'm in Italy. Okay. Oh, I like that. It's like, by country. Listen, whatever. Anyway, if you like the Italians, what did I say? But so now I actually like masturbate to gratitude meditations. You're, you're lying to me. I certainly am not. Kesha, they're like, breathe in and be grateful. Oh, it's, don't knock it till you try it. Honestly, everyone, let me just say, those downloads on the gratitude ones are going to go way up. Remember when I said I started every day with a gratitude meditation? Right. It's been amazing. Literally when I got my freedom, I was like, I think, you know, I'm pissed about a lot of stuff. But one of the things is that like, pleasure. I keep coming back to pleasure. Like, it is okay as a woman to feel pleasure in this world. When things, when you go through things, pleasure is not like the number one neural pathway that your brain always goes to when you have survived things. And I had to reprogram that and I do it every fucking day and I'm not even embarrassed about it. You shouldn't be. You absolutely shouldn't be. And I think especially as women, I relate to like, I think when we are stressed or we're going through something traumatic, the actual last thing that we can think about is sex and pleasure because our bodies are so frozen, we literally can't feel our bodies. Like, to lose that part of yourself and to shut down and then to be able to now be like, I connect this shit with gratitude, mother fucker. Totally. Wow. And this is why I am celibate is because I'm calling in a fucking king. Like, it's time for my king. You're manifesting. My pussy is manifesting with gratitude that my king is coming, okay? Because you have to, your body has to align with your reality before it shows up in your life. So like, are there kings in Italy? Like, what's going on over there? There's some fucking kings in Italy, I go. (laughing) It's really that different. Kind of love it. I know you also kind of mentioned like, going through this experience of not feeling right in your body, you know, being on the world stage, having people comment, there's the exploitation to the nth degree of people feeling like they are entitled to a woman's body is so disturbing. And I also think this impossible standards that were held to right, like be hot, but don't be slutty. Like, you know, be hot, but don't be fake. Like, there's so much that we have to be like, uh, where's the middle line? Like, how have you managed to get kind of rid of those expectations? 'Cause like, you are so confident now, and we need your wisdom of like, how have you just learned to just be comfortable with who you are? Huh, I mean, it's been like such a journey, right? From the beginning of my career, and I, you know, we've talked about this a bit, and it's been very public. Like, people have commented on my body. I internalize those comments. I make that the word of God. I try to adjust my body to somebody else's, like what they want me to be. I went through a horrible filler phase. God, that sucked. But because I was like, oh, that's what I should do. And then I'm like, I actually don't like the way that looks, but like, it's just like this constant dance with society on what it does mean to be a woman and what is acceptable. And like also, we're not supposed to age. Like trust me, I don't want to. But like, I don't know what else to do. Like I, so I just have, I try to have like, 'cause my body image can get very perfectionism me. That's like what came up when I was, you know, in the eating disorder, which has been a while ago now. So I like, it's interesting to talk about it 'cause I just really wanted to be loved. And in my healing process, since I got my freedom, I realized like wanting to be famous and wanting to be loved. All of that actually had to come from myself and it couldn't be fake self love. It could not be performative words from a stage. I had to sit with myself and really like treat myself with kindness and grace and gratitude. And I sat with my leg. I tore my ACL on stage and I fucking finished that show and I played another one. Like I'm so grateful. But I remember Kesha, wasn't it that after you did that, though the headlines where you were drunk on stage? Like things like that make your blood boil because I don't drink before I go on stage. Girl, I barely drink. Like that's the one LOL that's probably a huge misconception. But like I don't wanna have to defend myself. - Right. - Talk to me a little bit about that persona that you build 'cause I know everyone builds a form when you have to have this like public image, right? I feel like there was this very like wild child's party girl that you were bringing forth to the world and people loved it. But like how intentional was that? - I think that that is absolutely a part of where I was at. You know, I was in my early 20s. And I think people love a headline. We love the drama, the salacious. We love it. So it was a version of a thing I did sometimes just like everybody at that age. And it was fun. And it's funny to talk about. It's also probably more interesting to write a song about a night, a wild night than like getting a car wash. - Right. - Like I don't know, now I'm gonna challenge myself. - Yeah. - Go right after this and see. - At the time it was also, I write many, many, many songs for a record. Like I'm talking like 100 plus. So let's just say, I wanted to showcase other sides my personality with single choices, but like the party thing was working. - Right. - And so it became almost like a caricature of itself, which is not to say it was never like disingenient. I was having a great time and having fun and romping around the world. But I think the balance of that is also who I am, which didn't maybe get as much of a spotlight at the time because one thing was really working. And how much do you think that that public persona influenced the way people treated you? - Well, I think that there has been a level of, can write off a talent because there's auto tune or it's a silly song or it's a pop song or, like there's so many ways to try to discount kind of like what I've done. But the cool thing is is that I'm always like, all right, y'all go right one, go ahead. All right one, see how easy this, like part of, I actually truly think this, we're talking about this. earlier, but joy is such an active resistance. A lot of times in my career, my joy has been written off as something that is not maybe that impressive because it's kind of silly, it's kind of fucking goofy, it's kind of just crazy, but I think to vibrate in the frequency of like silly goose shit is actually magical. It is because you don't give a fuck and that though can piss people off totally. Babe, I could have gone to Barnard, okay? I'm really fucking smart and I also can be really fun and silly and both things can exist, but you then refute, you're taking away my intellect because I'm having fun and I have an image and I'm leaning in and I'm doing all these fun things because that's what everyone wants, what to be able to put them in a box because we need to be able to fit them into a structure where we can make sense of it. I guess what, bitches, no. How about no? That's just not how life works with humans. I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna. I'm just not gonna like and trust me, they're mad at me. Live it, they're mad, but I'm not you're happy. Like no, I'm like killing it. I just sold out MSG. I'm chilling. So like they tried so hard to make me so sad. No. Can we also talk about this joy because you're right. We were talking up for the interview and the way you talk about it, it's so refreshing because like I just don't feel like as women and especially like if you're trying to forge a path for yourself and be successful, when you're smiling and you're enjoying your success, no one wants to see that. No. And it's like really disorienting to people and I just like don't know why. I'm like, I don't either. I think that what do I think? I don't know. I think that when you are, I think we're all mirrors for each other. And to some, you could be a massive inspiration. And to some, you can be a reflection of what they are not achieving in their life. I know, I mean, I just know that I feel like I have been projected upon a lot and kind of going back to the body stuff. It's like I tried to shape shift to make everybody happy. And at some point when you do that for literally almost 20 years, you start to be like, I'm going to Italy. I'm eating the pasta. See you guys later. Eat shit and die. You know? Eat shit and die. Everyone. Eat shit and die. Well, it's just like, what a what? I can't. Can we talk about these kings in Italy? Yeah. It's like your dating life. Oh god. Okay. Let's go. Okay. So your celibate except when you're in Italy, why me in like mostly. Yeah. Yeah. And that's just like celibate was like the goal. Yeah. Progress, not perfection. Got it. Are you single? Yes. Okay. Very single. Okay. I'm going to kind of well, first of all, you have a song called Red Flag. Yeah. Where you just like straight up admit to loving a red flag in a partner. Well, this is why I've been mostly celibate. Okay. And I'm going to remain very single on purpose. Yep. Because we have worked on this trait of mine. What were some toxic traits? We're not into anymore. But maybe in the past, we were a little like, huh? Did I think are hot? Yeah. Just like truly the funnier the story, the hotter like. Oh god. Oh god. I'd like just I have just dated people. I've no business dating. Just know I can't even call. There's like some stories I really want to tell but I don't want to call anybody out. But like one eye, which I think is hot. Yeah. He was cool. Okay. But like the line got drawn because he just smelled kind of like a subway sandwich that had been sitting in the back of your car for a couple of days. And like honestly, you better work. But it was just not a match. It was like a vibe because I'm actually secretly a hippie. But like, there's a line. Yeah. For me, you know. Oh god. Oh, wait. Then I'm going to give you some dating disasters. Oh, you tell me if any of this relates to you. Okay. Go ahead. Give me the story. What is the pettiest reason you've ever gotten dumped? I've only gotten dumped actually one time. And it's because the guy was dating. I kind of like thought he was probably a starfucker. And I was like, I'm just going to like test this theory. And so I went to the era. It's like after the tour, there's a little party. And I was just like, I'm going to pop in. Take my girlfriend. I'm not going to take the boyfriend. Just see how this goes. We were together for a year and a half. That dude came over the next day, dropped the keys off. And that was that. I was like, have you no shame? Like, couldn't you wait like 11 days or something? Him being like so angry with you. You're like tantrum. I mean, over if you're going to do it over anybody, Taylor. Honestly, I would have. But get it together. Okay. What's the time you completely misread the vibes? And you're like, wait, no, this is not how I felt. Oh, with a guy. Yeah. Misread the vibes. Well, let's just say most. Okay. Let's just say I had these two athletes. Two of them at the same time. And they were like, let's hang out. And I was like, I can't because I realized I forget there's a word for this. But if I don't like someone's brain, I can't deal with their penis. That's it. I miss apos actual. But I just like, I really like, I was excited because I got my orgasm back, you know, and I was like, I went on like, I'm going to like kind of have a ho phase. Like, what's that like? And I can't. No, no, no. So that's, yeah, the athletes. It sounds like a good idea. And then you get there and you're like, hmm. It was like a really cute flirtation. But I just like, I misread my own vibe in thinking that I could have a ho phase. I think I like just want a king. I just want like one. I just want to master a meditate. Okay. What is the time you found out you were potentially the other woman? Well, okay. I met this guy and I was really into his brain. And then we had a little kiki had a little make out. It's cute love. But then I found out he was polyamorous. So it's not really the other woman, but it's like an open situation. And so any time I'm met with like, I felt very judgmental, you know, it was like, oh, I'm judging the situation. I'm judging my part of being in the situation. And then I had a conversation and like it's a full blown life choice. They've been doing it for a very long time. His partner has a full blown other partner. And so I was like, I'm going to give this a try for a moment. And it turns out it just like was not for me. You just want a king to yourself. I think the most like devotion. Oh my god. Do you know that someone like built a pyramid for somebody, didn't they? I think so. Okay. So we're going to go with it. We're going to fucking go with it. Back check. Back check. In your mind. That's what you want. But like, what would you want someone to build you? Like, I want a fucking, I want a fucking cathedral full of cats and starbursts. I don't know. I just like want and like a river running through it. Oh, and like a weeping willow. Next to the dolphins. Obviously. Obviously. That's what every woman wants. You're like, clip this, send this, send this to him and it might get started. Yes. With a manicurist inside of my pyramid. I love where are the men like this? So a pyramid. I like this. I like this. What do you want, Bill? You know, I've never thought about it. But I don't think anything I could say would top what you just said. So I'll take what she's having on a visit. I'll take the cats and the starbursts and the weeping willow. What is the worst meet the parents interaction you've ever had? Oh, wow. I had won an Indiana. I'm not going to say his name. Okay. He knows who he is. He took me to Indiana. and I had only gone on like two dates and it just ended up being like, love Indiana, but like this particular meeting that parents after just a couple dates was like, wildly awkward, and then everyone thinks because I'm coming home, then we're getting married. And you had two dates. Yeah, but that was my bad. See, crazy, horny. I get horny for crazy. Like, if someone's like, I know, let's do this like, really? It's a bad idea. And I'm like, that sounds funny. I do it for fun. I do it for like the book. Let's go to Indiana and meet your parents. And I'm like, oh my god, I'm this bitch. This is the beginning of the most epic love story ever told. And then it's going to end with him building me a pyramid. And it never ended. Yeah, that fucking does. This is just why I mostly sell a bit. Okay, yeah. Now, I think definitely don't go meet the parents after two dates, right? That was my bad. It was a good story. Um, what is the biggest lie you ever caught someone in? Hmm. Okay. Okay. There. There was a guy. I did feel like a long time. Okay. And I don't know. If you ask my dancers, he may not have a home. Was he living with you? I don't want to answer that question. You're like, Alex, shut up. That's not it. That's not important. Okay. He may or may not have anything with me. And we never went to his place, but he always has an excuse. I was really busy. I was designing my tour. And then I was like literally hand designing everything. And it was like, I'll go see your place when I have time. And then one thing led to another. And then you never saw the place because I don't know if it exists. I know. You know, yeah. Yeah. No, I know the red flag thing. It's okay. But you're so self-aware right now. You're like, I know. Like, at least you recognize it. You know, but you'll always be on guard now. If they never are like, by the third time, like, want to come to mind, it has to be that I have to like, I need it. I'm just gonna, what do we do? Literally. It's women like, what do we do? Just try to you prevail. Okay. Like, I think you just like serve, kind of, and prevail. And like, just close a pussy app and call in kings. That's what I'm trying. That's like, we're working on it. But sometimes they don't have homes. And then you should like, definitely not let them move in with you unless you do a background check first. You'll get background checks, Kesha. I know. Let's get on that. I know. What is the most rogue first date you've ever been on? Your face. Well, for my birthday, someone sent me a yacht. Not like as a present, but like for me and like my whole crew, but they weren't even there. Oh, so that was kind of the first date. And it was my favorite one. Because he wasn't there. You're like, send me shit and don't come around. I feel like that's actually the kind of relationship I want. Give me all the good things, but I don't want to ever see. Okay. Don't annoy me. You're so fucking annoying. Send the yacht babe and build the pyramid. And I'll be in the pyramid all alone. Okay. What is the weirdest place you've ever hooked up with someone? Weirdest. Let me take a little walk down memory lane for a minute. Weirdest place I've ever hooked up with somebody. Like, I don't know. It's like planes trains and automobiles vibes like on a bus. In a bus, bathroom and a bunk on a bus. You're on tour. And like, I'm always on tour, which is like kind of the thing. So like at a sexy bathroom at the restaurant. Love that. I love like nature sex. Oh, it's the best. Yeah. In like the woods. Yeah. Okay. It's the best. Really with like the sticks. Oh, in the leaves, honey. And the barks. Yeah. And the worms. And that mud, honey. Like what just went in my vagina? Oh, that wasn't his tip. No, I'm like, okay, actually, maybe my favorite sex has been like body paint, like paint in the woods in the grass, but there's paint and there's a canvas and there's sexiness happening. I can picture it. I like it for real. Thank you. Are you the type of person that say he's friends with their acts? I do. If like, if you're like a real shit, I'm going to write a song about you and like, it is what it is. If you're not, if it's just like not a match, totally. Yeah. I like to me kind of realize now that I'm like free and independent and I'm sovereign and it's this whole energy of like, if you don't like fuck with me, then love that. But just it's like the guys that like have like, we're using me to get in the paparazzi pictures or lied to me about having a home like that is like deal breaker. So deal breaker. We got to cut it off standards. Have you ever been cheated on? I think they know that I'm a little crazy. You're like, they ended it before because they knew you don't, you don't want to do that. Like I collect human teeth. Let's talk about that. What's going on? So I've been collecting them for a while now. Okay. And I make art out of them. I have my cats had to get their little teeth taken out because they were, I don't know, they're a little kitty wisdom teeth. I collect those two. I'm like the tooth fairy. And didn't fans like you said you their teeth? Yeah. No, they still do. And did you ask for that? Yes. How did how did that come? I tweeted it. You said what? Do you send me your teeth? Just like send me your teeth. Good morning. Hit me up. Love you. And what did you want to do with the teeth? Also, I make art. I make jewelry. I've made a crown like a headdress. I made a belt. We the thing you're carrying isn't a tooth, right? Oh, no, that's my placenta. Wait. What? Where's that? Where did it go? Oh, I lost my placenta. Oh, my God. Where is your placenta? You were holding it. Maybe went down into the crevices. We'll get it after. What's in here? You were holding your placenta earlier. Yeah, I brought it in. So your placenta supposedly gives you second sight helps open your third eye. It's according to my mother. So she stuck it in the oven. She put it in a box and she found it when I was like 21 years old in the basement. We did to like fight for my placenta. My mom, they tried to take my placenta away from her at the hospital and she like fucking threw a conniption fit. And she fought for it. She fought for that. So now I carry it around. She put it in the oven, wrapped it up in a box, stuck it in the basement. We found it. Throw it in the blender, pop it in a necklace, work. Art. Oh, give us a little show to the camera. Okay. That's your placenta. And that's in there. Uh-huh. And do you travel with that everywhere? Yeah. What does it bring you? I just feel like it's like I love a good ritual, right? Like I'm a cult leader. We all saw in the photo. And I just like I love a ritual that reminds me of this like esoteric world I prefer to live in. Like down here on earth, boring. But like when I go up into like with my spirit guides and the whole realm of angels, like that's where I prefer to be. It's kind of fun. It's like the teeth. It just reminds me when I have like a little piece of the people I love what they're going to throw. Where do they put teeth? Anyways, what do you throw them in the toilet? Yeah. Where do you take your kids teeth? Tooth fairies out there. Yeah. Where do you put them? You send them to Kesha. You send them to me because like we're also going to put them in the trash. Have you ever gotten anyone that you're like, "Oh, I got to throw this one out." It's a little different. Oh, I've gotten crazy ones. And I live for it. I'm currently trying to like design a coffee table. And the center, I want to just be a bowl of all the teeth. So for real if people want to send it to me, this is actually like art I make out of it. I live for it. You're literally the tooth fairy. I know. I know you once broke off an engagement. I do. What led you to that decision? Because that must have been tough. It was really hard. It was during, I was in litigation. It was COVID. The legal bills are like coming in hot and like aggressively at a time where I could not tour. And I'm engaged to someone who is a beautiful person, but but quite frankly, I just didn't see us growing together. And I think to be honest with you, there have been many people that I've dated that have felt one way or another about what I do for a living. And it's like my fans are the love of my life. Like they really are. Like it's my longest relationship I've ever had. And we've grown up together. And they've shown up for me. They stood outside the fucking courthouse. Like my fans and my music, it's my life's work. And I've had not him so much, but like a little bit and other relationships that almost like will neg because maybe they are I don't know what they feel about it, but they feel a type of way about what I do. And I just realized, especially in my freedom and independent era and like sovereignty that like I only want a partner again, going back to like really wanting like a partnership that can visionary our life together. And I want them to be like, baby, be fucking bigger. Be even more. I want you to eat your healthy omega-3 fatty acids to feed your fucking gorgeous brain. Like that's the partner I want. Like take your magnesium, you sexy bitch. He just wants you to keep fucking climbing and taking over instead of being like a little wiener in the corner, being like, you're out shining me or you're getting too big. And you're like, you just can't have someone holding you back. But I think a lot of women feel like maybe I am too much. And I also think what's so admirable about that decision regardless of the person. I think a lot of people can relate like, when you get engaged, I think there's such a, it feels like it's such a first and beautiful time in your life. But there are a lot of people who recognize like, oh my god, almost making it more finalized made me realize maybe this isn't what I want. And there's so much fear I think of ending it whether like you already posted on Instagram that you're engaged. So like this is going to be so embarrassing if we call it off or people publicly know about it or the families or whatever. Like, how did you deal with the emotional weight of knowing you wanted to end something but also knowing optically? Like, there's so much also that comes with that type of fallout. Well, I think that like, since we're, speak for myself, since I was a little girl. Yeah. I have seen many movies, read many books, or many stories about how one of my life's greatest missions is to find my soulmate, my missing piece, the person that will complete me and really like give my whole life meaning. And I realized, you know, going from being not free and not sovereign to sovereign and free, that I'd really like to challenge that and feel whole and complete on my own. And ending something with someone is always difficult, especially if you love them, especially if you've integrated your life with their family. But I think kind of going back to the samurai piece, like your gut is going to tell you if you are with the right partner and my gut became unavoidable. And I had to weigh the option of honoring myself or doing something that is, it's horrible to break up with someone you love. It's so difficult. And I've so much love for him and his family. They're beautiful, beautiful people. It just, I just didn't feel like we were growing in the, in the same direction. And like, I'm wildly ambitious and, and he was more comfortable, he was more satisfied, which I'm not saying that one is better than the other. I actually sometimes wish I could just be more satisfied and chill. - It just didn't match. - It just didn't, it wasn't a match, like, at the end and it was really difficult, but we're still friends and I have so much love for him. He's a really good person. - I love that. And I think also just women listening, that's such a good testament to, to like, when you deny what you're feeling in your gut, it's never gonna go away. You can put band-aids on it. You can ignore it. But like, you're only just prolonging the pain more and more. And so although sometimes making a really, really hard decision in that moment can feel excruciating and uncomfortable, you're then already in the process of moving forward with what you know and you're got you're supposed to do. And the more that you avoid it, you're just gonna continue to live a life where like, you're not being authentic and honest yourself and that will eat you alive inside. And it's kind of not fair to the partner that you're with. They deserve to be with someone also that is wholeheartedly in it with them. And so sometimes it really is the selfless thing to do. As much as it feels selfish in the moment. - Well, it's interesting this idea of selfish versus selfless. And I think self-care really does include honoring yourself and your highest good because we each have that over ourselves. So to try to people please, to remain in relationship with someone, it is actually quite unfair to both of you and you have one life. Like you are born into this life with your one life. And I hope that everyone out there finds exactly what they want in this life. Like you deserve that. And if you go down a road like you can begin again every fucking second of every day. It is never too late. Like I am 39 years old and I just went on the biggest tour of my life, almost 20 years after my biggest song came out. Like and to get there my fucking God was that a road. It was a difficult road. But I had to honor my truth. I had to honor myself. I had to go through what I went through to get there. I had to break up with someone I love. I still love and I'm so grateful for. I had to have all my fucking medical records on the internet. I had to have the ugly filler phase. Like I had to have all these things that were so intolerably painful at the time. And I can sit here and talk to you and be so grateful I went through them because I feel so free. And I just I want that for like everyone. I want everyone to really feel in their authenticity and like connected to their highest version of themselves. I'm so happy for you. Like everything you've went through, that's why I think so many people love you. Not that you should have had to go through it. But like you sitting here, I mean, you've new music out, you're new single origami. Like I want to talk about it 'cause it's like what was the inspiration behind this song? - Yeah. I have a new song coming out called origami and it is, I am having a fun time immortalizing this reclaiming of my sexuality. It's the past year and a half, two years. I'm reclaiming myself. And part of that is my sexuality. And this is a song that's about, you know, bend me, twist me, how you want me, baby, make me. Oh, it gummed me. - In Italy. - You know, just in Italy now. - Just in Italy, is there an album that would be coming with this as well? - I'm trying to figure it out 'cause my God, there are a lot of songs. You said you always do like 100. - A lot of the songs are happening at all times. - You're writing. - I'm writing all the time. I mean my God. So like TBD, exactly what form it's gonna be in, but there is a new song that's like so conti. And it's really fun. And it's just like celebrating being in your body and quite frankly, like having so much fun again in my body at 39 years old. - Having gone through Hell and Back. And I'm having the best time. And I feel like I got to sing songs about it. - Absolutely. - Yeah. - You are going on the Freedom Tour this summer? - Yes. - What can fans expect from that? - Well, so I kind of was, I had all this, my story, my trauma was like trapped in my body. And I did a psychedelic assisted therapy that was really helpful for me in my anxiety. And I kind of was like, how can I tell the story? How can I ever get this all out of my body? And my body was like, bitch, you're playing the forum. What are you talking about? It's like, nobody can't say the whole parts of the story. Like I can't talk about it. And my leg was like, put it in the show. So I tell basically my life's story through my life's work. And that's why it's the Freedom Tour. - Wow. - 'Cause I go through like, I go through the story in the only way that I can through my life's work. And the goal is to create love for myself. love with my community and to really walk through this world in like freedom and sovereignty. So beautiful. Yeah. And it's like gay church. Let's go. It was the first time I've ever headlined MSG. Congratulations. Thank you. What did that feel like? Well, first of all, it was sold out. Girl, I can't. How did you feel just like chilling in your dressing room before hearing everyone screaming? Cassie Ventura sends me this massive bouquet of these beautiful pink roses. Before I go out on a sweet angel. I have chosen the right body talking about it. Oh, I know. And my whole family is there. And it is sold out. Oh my god. And I just can't tell you like feeling because Cassie was in the room when I recorded the song TikTok. Yeah. Oh, she's been there since day one. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Oh, wow. And then everything you guys have both individually been through with horrific, unimaginable situations to then now be on the other side of it and both be able to be together. I don't want to speak for you. But like I'm seeing you like smile and nod and all that. It's like, whoa, how emotional was that? Oh, like so and like she just had a baby. And she seems to be doing so well. And I'm so happy for her. It like feels so good to witness that. And I'm sure she feels the same about you. You know, it's just like such a moment. And it was like one of the special nights of my life because there's this like hard curfew at MSG. And if you go over one minute, it's like a very bad. It's a big, big trouble. And the crowd literally started cheering and like didn't stop for, I think it was like 10 or 11 minutes to the point where everyone's freaking out in my ears being like, you have to start the next song. You're going to get getting tackled off this day. You're fired from New York City forever. And I just was like, no, this is like I have waited for this kind I felt. I was like, I'm not stopping them. There's no fucking way. I sat alone in my house. And like truly questioned the point of living any longer for almost a decade. And I'm going to stop them cheering. Charge it to the card, baby. It's worth it. Oh, I can't even imagine. Did you feel in your body in that moment? I literally felt like my heart, people like say heart chakra. Whatever it was, I felt my little heart. It felt like someone was tearing the facial tissue apart. And I literally felt my heart open in a way that I don't think I've ever felt anything like in my entire life. And it was so, that's what I was saying to you earlier, like the fans. I hope had an amazing time this summer. But I don't think they're ever going to really be able to understand what that did for me. Like that night alone was, it was like a turning point in my life is one of the greatest nights of my entire life. I can't even imagine what's so beautiful about the industry because I know there's so much pain obviously that it's brought you. But for you to be able to do the thing that you love so much and that you're so passionate about, you're so talented. And do it and get so much fulfillment and healing out of it. But then also to simultaneously be giving such happiness also to your fans. Like you're being able to do both at the same time. Like what a beautiful gift that you're giving everyone and yourself included because you should put yourself first right now at this time. And you're like, but the fact that putting yourself first means you want to get on that stage. And that's your healing process. Like I can only imagine what your fans feel in the crowd. Like they must feel that from you. Well, I mean, God, they were there at the beginning and we were having fun. And then a bunch of shit happened. And it was like, was sad and hard. And like, now I'm like, now let's celebrate like that. We also have each other in this life. It might be an unusual form of community. But like, that's my community. I've been doing this for a long time. And half of the time, again, unfortunately, you shouldn't have to go through it. But when you go through harder shit, it brings you even closer to the people that you love because you can be like, it's that much sweeter that we get to stand here and say I'm free and we get to enjoy it that much more because we felt it almost be taken away. Yeah. And wow. And I do think that's like the art of writing a book. It's called the Alchemy of Pop. It's not going to be ready for a while. Okay. Well, we'll be waiting. But like, it's going to be great. But it's going to take me a while. Yeah. But it's all about alchemizing your experiences in this life. Anything that happens to you, like, I have found that I can take it and I try to alchemize it into something that can help someone else somehow. And like, to your point, like, that's what I've tried to do with my experiences in life. I try to put them into a song. It helps me. And then I really hope it helps other people. Last few questions. I feel like I could talk to you for nine hours. How would you describe this current era of your life that you are now in and continuing to like enter into? I think I'm just so for the first time in a long time, I feel so safe in my body and in the world. And I know that's maybe a crazy thing to say because the world is crazy. But it's the first time that I've ever felt this. And so I would like to create safe places for people. Whatever that means. So I'm just really open to the universe. I would love the universe to show me, like, what is the best way to do that for other people? Because it was like, yeah, to feel safe is everything. And I would love to help other people feel safe. So I'm like, open to what that means. But that's I'm in a place where I feel very grateful to be alive and to have lived through what I live through and to feel safe. And now I would like to help. Pay that forward. Wow. Yeah. For fans who have been with you since day one, what message would you want to leave them with today? I literally truly though you're actually the love of my life. Like I think about all these silly goose men come and go my animals. Like I'm so grateful and I'm sorry your mother has had lots of phases. You're like, girl, thank you for loving me through all of them. And I just I'm so I'm so lucky. I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful. And I'm just like very I'm just so fucking grateful. And I want to just continue to create safe spaces for you to come and be like authentically as fucking weird as you want to be. So if I else you want summer tour and like be weird, be so weird. I feel like I can speak for everyone when we say like we love you so much. And we are so happy that you are at a place where you do feel safe in your life because you deserve it more than anything. And I am so happy for you in your career, all that you've accomplished. We could have sat here for hours and talked about every single song you've ever released, every single tour you've been on, every single thing you've accomplished. Like there's too much. And it's so crazy. Like it's still going and it's still coming. And I'm just so happy for you. You're such a beautiful, interesting, intelligent person. And I'm so happy I got to sit down with you. Like I never know what to expect. Like this is why I love my job. I get to sit down. And I think I know from researching, but you're even more incredible than I could have ever imagined. So and thank you for your time. Because I know you haven't done a long form interview in a really long time. Yeah. I don't think I've done it since I got out of litigation. So thank you for making me feel safe. It was my absolute, absolute honor. Thank you. Well, creating a safe space allows us to be silly geese. And that is the goal, honey. Kesha, thank you for coming on Colour Daddy. Thanks for having me.