Ken Robinson: The Element: How Finding Your Passion Changes Everything

[MUSIC] >> Hello, and welcome to the Moon Shots Podcast. It's episode 179. I'm your co-host, Mike Parsons, and as always, I'm joined by the man with a plan, Mr. Mark Pearson, Freeland. Good morning, Mark. >> Hey, good morning, Mike. I'm one exciting show we've got for you and I, the Moon Shots family and all of our listens today as we near the end of our current series on creativity. >> Can you believe it and just to kind of mess with everybody's head, Mark? We say this is the last episode on creativity, but it's going to be so much more, huh? >> This one is a huge one. If you thought that all of the episodes so far within creativity, including Walt Disney and Jim Kerry were big Hollywood powerhouses, well, actually, Mike, we're stepping out of the tinseltown and getting into education and insightful research with Mr. Well, should I say, in fact, Mike Sir, Ken Robinson, and his New York Times bestseller, The Element, how finding your passion changes everything. >> And what I think, I promise to you, our listeners today, is that you will see in this amazing way of clips that it really does change everything when you find your passion, what you were designed to do, your natural ability, the best version of yourself, whatever you want to call it. Today, we have a bunch of clips from Sir Ken Robinson, where he talks about the power of finding what comes naturally, what you're on this planet to do, how it can be expressed through creativity, purpose, it is so rich, it is way more than just an investigation of creativity. I think today is some mad combination of Elizabeth Gilbert's Simon Sinek, maybe a bit of Stephen Covey Throne in there, just to, like, jazz it up. It is going to be so much fun, right, Mike? >> Yeah, there is. There's a real blend of individuals and moonshotters within the work of Sir Ken, I believe. And as we go on this journey with you, our listeners, understanding and dissecting different ways of thinking and frameworks and approaches across all of our library of moonshotters, what you're really starting to see with Sir Ken Robinson is the combination of a lot of those elements, Mike. I mean, we're starting to, like you say, run into different theories and frameworks that perhaps we've seen and understood and now plugging it all together. We're kind of like inspectors, aren't we, detectives putting together the secret source behind finding your elements and passion? >> Oh, yeah. And it's going to be a one-hot spicy source today. You're so right. It's what we call the moonshots model, right? The model of the recurring patterns of what successful, great, amazing people do and we're just trying to bottle it up so we can learn how to do it, how we can learn out loud together with you, our listeners, so we can just really push it. We want to be the best version of ourselves. We're not going to just take the status quo. We're not going to have a fixed mindset. We're going to use people like Sir Ken Robinson and we're going to find our natural abilities. We're going to find our best version of ourselves. And, Mark, I don't think we want to give too much away, but we are going to lead with the clip of all clips. We are about to play a clip that will, well, I think we should have an advisory here, Mark. Be careful. Make sure you're sitting down. Make sure you're ready, because this first clip is a story that will knock your socks off, weren't it, Mark? >> Yeah, that's right. It's a great demonstration of Sir Ken's rice sense of human mic, but also demonstrating to us that I guess age and occupation and no barrier to going out and finding your passion. So let's hear without further ado from Sir Ken helping you and I and all others find their elements today. >> Our kids give us all kinds of signals about who they are and what they're disposed to and what engages them and sensible parents encourage it. Often well-meaning parents discourage it because it doesn't sit with the conception of who these, what these kids should be doing. Now I'm not arguing that we shouldn't do other things at school that we should only follow our bliss, that we should never do things that require effort that run against the grain, but part of our purpose is to become who we are. And we become our best when we discover what it is we can do. And we have created archetypical pathways for people, many of whom simply rattle against the walls or drop off altogether and think I'd want nothing to do with this. I mean look at the levels of disaffection, disengagement and despair that many people feel because they haven't found anything that resonates with who they are. But the other important thing about the bar story to me is this it illustrates something profound to me which is that life is not linear. Our education systems are but life is not. You know when I went to school the premise was if you worked hard and went to college and got a degree you'd get a job for life. That was kind of true. In the 70s if you had a degree you were guaranteed a job. The idea you wouldn't have a job with a college degree was ridiculous. I mean the only reason you wouldn't have a job if you had a degree but if you didn't want a job. And I left college in 1972 and I didn't want a job. I didn't. I wanted to find myself. You know you could do this in the 70s fairly easily. So I decided to go to India where I thought I might be. You know and I didn't get to India I got to London you know where there are a lot of Indian restaurants so I can go there. But I but we still have people on this path like the whole premise of our education system is you have to go to college. If you don't go to college your life is over and this is in the face of all the evidence of the country that some people never want to go to college. Some people go to college and don't know what to do with themselves now. Some people rattle around the walls and go back home again to carry on playing video games. Some people go to college and love it. And that you the whole system is designed for those few people really. Well let's be small group. This obsession with college is really important I think to get our headrand. I was in Danville recently doing a book signing. I was signing a book. I didn't go to Danville by the way to sign one book. I mean that would be pathetic. You know it wasn't wasn't like they rang from the public said quick somebody bought a book in Danville you know we'll keep him talking you know you get here fast. A throng of books were being sold. But I was on this guy he was in his late 30s I'd say and I said what do you do? And he said I'm a Feynman and I said how long have you been a Feynman? He said always. That's what I've always done. And I said and so when did you decide to be a Feynman? He said well always he said I want to be a Feynman since I got on to elementary school. He said actually it was a problem because in elementary school everybody wanted to be a Feynman. You know he said but I wanted to be a Feynman and he said so when I got to the upper second school and to high school in the junior and senior years it was a big issue because everyone was applying to college and the school was saying which college you're applying to everyone had to go to college. He said I didn't want to go to college. I wanted to join the Fire Service and he said I had this one teacher who ridiculed me in front of the whole class in the junior. He said you know you will never amount to anything if you're throwing your life away if this is all you're going to do to go and join the Fire Service. He said you could really do something you could you know make something of yourself. He said I was angry but also humiliated that that's what he thought. He said anyway I was thinking about it as you were speaking earlier he said because six months ago I saved his life. He was in a car wreck and our unit was called out and I pulled him out and I gave him CPR and I saved his wife's life as well. He said I think he thinks better of me now. But he said I'm saying that we are born with immense gift of diversity and imagination creativity but our particularly our educational systems have stereotyped it and stifled a great deal of it and this is a process we can't allow to endure. So when people talk about getting back to basics my argument is we should get really back to basics so well what is it to be a person what does it to be a human being what kind of life do you want what kind of life do you want for your kids what kind of life do you want I think that might in fact be the question that we're asking as well Mark do you know I mean it's a huge clip you know first of all let's just take a breath because what a charming speaker you know I think that great insight about life not being linear was a real hard hitting truth because a lot of us do expect our lives to follow a certain pattern and when we do step back from that you think well who who told me that should be the pattern why should it be the pattern for every single one of us but I think you're right Mike the big important question is that that that final one that we're often asked ourselves but maybe it's late at night maybe it's when we're doing our journals what kind of life do you want and I mean where do we start well the fact that you ask the question is already a great start isn't it you're right if you've got the awareness and the admission that it's something you can own and therefore you can control I think you're already slightly down that path of understanding it and figuring out on you because you're then putting yourself in the situation where you can start to a identify and maybe be actively action certain behaviors that drive you to uncovering that passion or that reason for being absolutely and I think what he goes on to do is tell one of the most powerful stories I have heard about listening to your heart, mind, your soul about what you are designed to do and pursuing that and I mean how incredibly poignant and touching that the man who told him you know you're crazy you're not going to amount to anything he ended up saving his life doing the very thing that teacher criticized and oh by the way saved his wife as well make something of yourself I mean it's probably probably regretted it by the end I think it's it's a really encouraging story isn't it because it makes for me when I think about passion finding a way identifying what kind of life you want to live not only as Ken would put it is it orientated perhaps or controlled by some of the lessons you learn at school and maybe it's influenced by your friends what are they doing therefore what should I be doing I think your ego comes into that a little bit as well and I think what's really reinforcing within that clip from Sir Ken just then about the firefighter instead of him following that path following his friends following the teachers and following that linear path that Sir Ken identified instead he's saying no I just do what I want I'm not going to be influenced by others and I think that's such a nice stoic demonstration of following the gifts that you believe you have and the life that you want to go and live and to then be in a situation where you do get not rewarded but you are utilizing the skills that you you've trained for and you end up saving someone's life isn't that a great reinforcement of making the right decision that's appropriate for you it really is and I think what we would encourage everyone to do when they hear that story is to listen to the feeling when either A you're doing something and get over the initial hardship kind of barriers but if you know something's really just not for you and on the other hand you know there are some things that come naturally some things that speak to you just enjoy almost a flow state you just feel like this just comes to me naturally and you're compelled and curious to it you think about it even when you're not doing it it's about listening to those signals interpreting them and having the capacity to say what's my purpose why am I here and how can I live today in line with that purpose and I think I think this is the book if you're if you want to listen to those signals inside of yourself if you want to pursue the question of purpose what you were born to do why you are here and having the courage to go down that path this is the book because I think for a lot of us we might not know the path is there and if we sense it that path looks rather dark and murky doesn't it yeah well because it's possibly a path that's untrodden particularly when it comes to us in our lives you know the paths that are well-trodden are the ones that again our family maybe have gone down or our friends or well-known individuals in the media so it feels a little bit more achievable but you're right Mike when you start to think okay well maybe I'll lean towards something I haven't done before or that is murky territory it might be deep water you know be where the souls who go that way so I think it's just a fascinating and really encouraging story there or somebody taking ownership and trying to be that best version of themselves totally and before we play this next clip from Ken where he starts to break it down and we're just going to get into some serious learning together I think I tell you who's on the right path Mark I'll see who's on the right track who who is prepared to go down the murky path of being the best version of yourself and that is our members right yeah that's right our patreon members who all receive that lunar-powered dose of good calm and thanks as well as the achievement of going down that murky path and learning the best version of themselves includes Bob Niles John and Terry Nile and Modeling Ken the epma Tom and Mark Mojang Conner Rodrigo Yasmin Daniela Lisa Seared Mr. Bon Jua Maria Paul Berg and Kalman and net David Joe Crystal Evo Christie and Hurricane Brain and Samuel Aler I mean might every week it seems to get just that little bit longer and I get a little bit more breathless it really does and pretty soon you're going to have to take three breaths and we shouldn't forget that if you become a member you get access to our Munchel master series if you're a member if we hit 50 members I should be more of a growth mindset when we hit 50 members Mark we will launch our first merch I'm talking teas and posters and all that kind of good stuff but we got to get to 50 and I'm thinking we can do some cool stuff around the year of JFK's moonshot speech got some ideas there I got some I mean when you think about shooting for the moon and the galaxy you can imagine some cool stuff that you could do around that some nice gifts that you could give friends as well so we're at 30 we need 50 right Mark yeah we're not too far away it's going well and I think again just thanks to our current members and again big shout out to all of the listeners who want to take part not only in getting some good old merch and swag I certainly like I'm looking forward to getting a moonshot hoodie particularly a Sydney's getting that little bit chillier at this time of year yeah but I think getting a access to all of our master series is a pretty good exchange so do I so go on to moonshots.io click on the big members button join up I mean it's the cost of one cup of coffee a month and you can support us help us base and bills B you get a whole bonus show three you get us to the tipping point of swag I mean this is something you've got to do so head over to moonshots.io and unlock the element and unlock how you might find your passion and change everything but we can do that right now too and let's do that with Saken Robinson really breaking down the thinking behind the element the element was not intended to be a how to book it was a it's intention really was to to encourage a different type of conversation because I believe that this is a powerful important argument for what several reasons one of them is economic you know we I believe make scandalous misuse of people's abilities and we throw away and squander huge amounts of natural talent and passion and enthusiasm and you can see the evidence that everywhere people disengage detached disaffected but when people connect with who they really are the whole story shifts so it's also important for personal fulfillment for people living a life that means something I can't imagine why you would live a life if you could avoid it that didn't mean anything to you and yet many people do and it's also important for cultural reasons for health and strength of our communities so this book was about that and it has quite a few things to say about education and why it is that education wastes a lot of people's natural abilities and it does but also why people get lost in organizations and why we can't afford to do that anymore but naturally what people do say is this is great but how do I find my element so the new book is about that and I think it's it's two it's a two-way journey one of them is internal now in the end you have to spend time with yourself and listen to the the signals that you give yourself you know people know the things they're drawn to things they would like to do very often I don't mean they always do but very often there's things in our lives that we wish we'd tried and we've kind of turned away from it or we're encouraged not to go there there are obstacles or barriers that other people resent to us sometimes so part of it is living with yourself and listening to those voices and making a list of them more if you prefer a color issue some sort or but some audit of yourself and maybe that's a meditative process for some people but you can't avoid that inner journey but the second is an outer journey you need to try things because if you don't not if you don't try things you will never know many of the people I've talked to in the book might never have discovered their talents but for a mentor who pushed them or an opportunity that came their way which they took and a lot of us live in kind of encased habits of practice and thought and we can't break out them so the book is really an encouragement to break out of it and try it an encouragement to break out and try it as well as encourage the conversation to be starting great again breakdown mic of the element from Sir Ken I think I'm now really getting into the mindset that Sir Ken has around this book which is encouraging those new conversations those news ways of thinking in order to become that little bit more shall we say comfortable or confident in the path that you choose yeah so let's go insanely practical right now because we've heard that amazing story of the the firefighter who saved the life of the teacher that criticized him for wanting to be a firefighter and now we've kind of heard from Sir Ken like we need to reflect don't be sound on your natural talents so how do we do this like I'm just getting straight into it and I think I'm just going to throw some stuff at you and you tell me what you think is a great place to start I feel like you need to have you know some sort of checklist or assessment of where you are right now I think you have to have the ability just to like I don't know assess where you're at you know do you feel that you are resilient in the face of challenge do you are you surrounded by good people do you think positive thoughts do you feel in control of your life do you have do you feel confident that you're on the right track do you have clear goals that you can see you're making progress towards can you be grateful are you listening and learning are you taking on criticism and changing your behavior are you investing time not only in your work but your health family and friends these would be ways at which I would try and find out if I'm if I'm you know on the right track and then more specifically then I would get into some like Myers-Briggs skills analyzer that will get you more into you know what kind of person are you and and where might you find like a great fit in terms of a career or a lifestyle I don't know I'm just thinking like how do we actually embody what Sir Ken is talking about how do we work out where we're at and ask ourselves are we serving our natural talents are we pursuing our natural path or we sort of ignoring those signals what do you think I think you're you're on to you're definitely on the right path there Mike and you've stepped away from or maybe you're embracing the merceness but you've got a good head torch on because what I like about the checklist and the the mantras you were just going through is that it encourages an ongoing revisitation of those signposts let's let's continue the metaphor in order to see that progress because I think what Sir Ken's really calling out is you've got to listen to the internal concept that's voice that's reflection on yourself that's listening to yourself as well as that outer piece which is trying something new finding a mentor taking their advice and so on but I think if you take those in isolation so internal reflection an external stimulus let's say without being able to identify the journey that you've been on and where you were at point A which was let's say six months ago point B let's say that's where I am now you're not going to be able to therefore identify whether or not you're you found your element your passion or not because you've just changed some of the goalposts and I really like where you're going with that which I think is encouraging all of us to not only ask ourselves those questions but honestly answer them in the format of let's say a journal or yeah or maybe it's as practical as a physical checklist similar to the Mars Briggs or the personality tests actually marking something down on a point-based system is quite interesting as well because you can then try it maybe it's every quarter every three months that's right and how you're changing and there's a couple of frameworks around designing your life and whether you talk icky guy hedgehog they're all basically looking at an intersection between the following things so if you have got some curiosity on how finding your passion your natural talents can really really change your life I think the checklist kind of looks like this mark I think what what you want to be able to do is say what am I naturally good at okay what can I get paid for what do I really love doing and what are my what are the worlds needs in terms of the mission like what does the world actually need right so you might say that's the intersection between passion profession vocation and mission there's the icky guy model which is similar it's basically what we're talking about here is an intersection between what gives you natural energy what comes naturally what does the world naturally need and what can when you do so there is value in doing this from those around you without making it too simple I think this is if you find the things that speak to you this is why the pay off to Sir Ken's book is how finding your passion changes everything yeah exactly it does change everything and I think if you can find that piece of passion let's put it into a practical situation here if you can find something that you are good at and you therefore feel I mean for me Mike if I found something I was really good at in a work situation how does that make me feel well I feel confident I feel confident to talk to others to express my point of view to listen to others and to maybe be the best version of myself in that given situation and when I don't feel like I'm very good at something how do I feel well I feel insecure maybe I want to be a bit quieter maybe I'm going to be defensive or passive aggressive and that's not something that's going to be relevant or useful in a working situation isn't it and instead if you lean in towards the things that yeah I think as Ken was so Ken was saying in the first clip he's not discouraging us from trying something new in fact in that second clip he's saying I'm out and trying something new embrace that difficulty and see whether it works or not but once you do start to hone down into the thing that you're really good at imagine that feeling you're going to have imagine how efficient productive and pleasant you're going to be to work with because you're going to be in that best version of yourself in that work situation and so like following this line of thinking let's say we're using Sir Ken's inspiration here and we're trying to find our element and let's say you've got a hunch about things that kind of come naturally and things that you care about I say start small prototype do something on the weekend I think one of the common things people do is if they you know first of all people often don't pursue that curiosity I think that's the first one but the second one is if they do sometimes they take too big a jump they go all in and just like like any sort of health and exercise goal they set the first objective so big that it like crushes you because you've just taken on too much starts more prototype experiment do something on the weekends or at night you maybe it's just a little hobby like pursue it I think more than anything I can't tell you Mark how many times in life things have grabbed my curiosity and I have not pursued them yeah right and and and so you know write it down don't let that at that that moment of curiosity go and make a commitment to coming back to it try it read something go an experiment investigate don't sort of don't be a zombie and just judge along and just do what you think everyone else expects of you find your element that's the called action isn't it Mark well it's funny the people that stand out the most for me when I've collaborated with people when I've met them socially the ones who I almost admire the most and I most interested I supposed to speak to are the ones who do something a little bit different so they might have unusual hobbies and I think to coin the word you were just using their might that curiosity and sometimes in our lives you're right we'll run into something that we're kind of curious about and we think oh that'll be really fun to do and then what happens well the business as usual kind of gets in the way and you almost forget about it or you deprioritize it you're right if you have the ownership around writing it down come back to it later or as I know that you do Mike we might put it in our to do it and put a time in our to do list to research it or maybe give it a go for half an hour on the weekend whatever it might be let's say it's swimming or running or just learning a new skill at work doing that just for that little piece of time will then give you the the confidence over time to pursue it more I mean like you say Mike with exercise whether it's running or swimming within the first either couple of K of running or within the first five or 10 minutes of swimming things get a little bit uncomfortable and you want to turn away from it but actually the truth is if you get past that little bit of a blocker you start to realize actually I I am enjoying this new habit or hobby or curiosity whatever you want to call it and I think that's that's a really interesting point of life if you can actually get past the blockers and actually start to live those experiences it can be a lot more can be a lot of fun totally so on that note I think it's time to get into the how to's with Sir Ken so let's have a listen to Sir Ken talking about creativity and how to make it a habit the first thing is imagination imagination to me is the key to everything it it is I believe what's distinctive about humanity we might talk about this and see if you agree but I put this to you imagination is the ability to step outside of your current space to bring to mind things that aren't present to our senses with imagination you can go backwards to the past in fact you have a past with imagination and not just one past but multiple possible past I mean the whole process of history is the reinterpretation revisiting the past and trying to see it differently if if it were just a catalog of dates and events there would be no discipline for history there just be bookkeepers but history is a contest isn't it for meaning but the discipline but you can also step outside your your immediate way of seeing things and enter somebody else's consciousness virtually you can empathize with people you can try and see things from their perspective and you can visit the future with imagination I don't think you can predict the future truthfully there are some things you can predict you can predict when Halley's comments coming back or when the next eclipse will be you can you can predict inanimate possibilities but you can't put it much in the human field for reasons that we'll come on to after the break imagination is the heart and soul of this whole thing if you if you have if you take a young child into the garden at night and point to the moon the child will look at the moon if you take your dog into the garden and point to the moon the dog will look at your finger won't they crisically like now what why do you keep doing this and the thing is that we are born as human beings with this expansive sense of reference with with imagination and it's why although we're probably evolving at the same rate biologically as every other form of life on earth I mean I can't imagine where nature's last word can you I mean I hope not really because there's some stuff that needs to be sorted out but biologically we're probably moving at the same rate but culturally we're in a different category from everything else on earth aren't we I mean if you have a dog you don't have to keep checking in with dogs do you to see what's new you know culturally what's what's happening with you people at the moment well pretty much the same stuff really that we've always done but with human beings there's always something new because we have these this power creativity is a step on as I see creativity is putting your imagination to work to be creative you have to do something you can be imaginative all day long and ever do anything but to be creative you do things it's a very practical process and it can be anything we'll come on to it so one shortwave defining creativity is applied imagination but let me be more specific I define it as the process of having original ideas that have value the process found original ideas have value and the three terms matter it's a process it's not an event and you can understand the manage the process it's about originality and it's about making critical judgments of whether this work is any good all creative processes are intermingled with value judgments and that's critically important because you have to know which values to apply and why to what sort of work and if you're helping children draw like five-year-old kids you have to apply relevant criteria to their drawings once that are relevant to their development you know it wouldn't be right would it take a five-year-old kid's drawing and drag him to the cysteine chapel and say this is okay you know but check this out you know really and don't waste my time you know you have to apply what's relevant so it's about process, originality and value innovation I think I was putting good ideas into practice it's the process of implementing original ideas I mean Mike that is a huge clip isn't it this is sir Ken breaking down the DNA of creativity which is obviously the series that we're in right now as well as giving us again that kind of call to action around imagination and fundamentally how to bring new ideas to life what a powerful interesting clip yeah and isn't it interesting that he specifically talks about imagination applied creativity done and it is and it's not naval gazing I can't stress how we are learning that it is whether you look at great athletes great artists great entrepreneurs they're biased to doing something every single day continuous refinement continuous execution said differently nobody is waiting to be zapped by an aha moment and they're perfect at that point it is hard work trump's talent every single time there's no like one moment it's all about continuous iterative processes to find to refine you know the best version of yourself like to me the pattern is very strong yeah I 100% agree whether it's somebody like a tom Brady or Michael Jordan they are not just waking up in the morning walking down to the court or the field and just naturally talented are they you know I think that natural talent might last for a beard it will take you so long but to be truly great and be that best version of yourself it is that process as Sir Ken's calling out a managed process of identifying or imagining a new way of doing things stepping outside as he was saying and creating something new that's something you could be a product could be a way of thinking or it could be a brand new move on the court whatever it is then into that application that execution actually bring it to life exactly like Walt Disney Mike you know we were hearing from Walt Disney just a couple of shows ago at the beginning of our creativity series of taking an idea and actually creating it bring it to life applying it and then into the third bucket or third strand of DNA from Sir Ken that judgment piece looking at it with a lens of value is it good is again just a natural bookend to creativity isn't it it's wonderful and I'll tell you a great way to express your creativity is with your pointing your thumbs up or perhaps even writing a review mark what do you think oh I mean talking about being in your element if listeners and members want to get into their element and help the moonshot show continue to educate and learn out loud ourselves as well as our listeners from around the world pop along listeners to your podcasting app of choice Spotify Apple podcasts and leave us a rating or review because Mike I mean we've spoken about it before but it's amazing how much of a difference that rating or review makes for the moonshot show getting out there isn't it yes so if you've been enjoying this show today or maybe you're a regular listener and you know if if you haven't have if you are yet to get shall we say to becoming a member maybe a first step is give us a rating or a review in your podcast app of choice we would deeply appreciate it would be very grateful because this is how we get the word out it was by doing this that we've gone from 50 to 50,000 listeners a month it's thanks to you sharing liking reviewing commenting the show it's a big part of how we can grow the audience we can find more moonshotters who want to learn out loud together and be the very best version of themselves so come on if you're listening on that app right now just flick the screen open go in hit the thumbs up maybe type in a little review if you're on Apple Podcast app we would so appreciate it and it fills me with goodwill maybe even a touch of love for you so it's only appropriate that we talk about love and talent from the book of Sir Ken Robinson the element and to do that we're going to listen to one of our absolute favorites which is Brian Johnson from Optimize the next is point of these two things what you love and what you're good at what you love and what you're good at right at that next is point if you love doing something so much maybe you'd even pay to do it and you're good at it you have a talent for it you put those two together you have passion you have the element Sir Ken's idea is look we all need to discover our element not only for our own personal fulfillment but for the world the world needs more people who have come alive by discovering this next is point of what we totally love to do and what we're really good at that's how we're going to be able to serve the world most profoundly now I like to add a third little circle here often and talk about what the world needs and what it will pay for so when we talk about how to discover our purpose I love to lean into Jim Collins's work who wrote good to great built to last a bunch of other great business books and he's talks about something called the hedgehog concept which is basically these three ideas what do you love to do again so much you'd pay to do it fires you up time evaporates it's just you doing what you absolutely did what are you good at and Collins says what are you so good at that you can in fact be among the best in the world at great businesses are focused on what they love to do and what they can think what they think they can be the best in the world at me Mike you were touching upon a couple of these frameworks that Brian Johnson's touching on in that clip a little bit earlier the hedgehog concept as well as ekie guy I think really what it's coming down to is that the element this passion this nextest point of good and enjoyment of your life is really about finding flow isn't it it's finally a bit of mehi Ching send me hi and the idea of being in your element your focus of doing something that you're pretty good at and doing it to the best of your ability and just being in that moment of flow isn't it oh my gosh so we are we're on to some of my favorite topics right now so so yeah it's flow where things where you're just in the zone right I think what Sir Ken Robinson is doing is going to the underlying conditions in order to get that and he's even going to the first principle of asking you know what are you born to do what is your natural talent what comes to you so naturally you know as Brian said what could you be the best in the world at now all of whether it's the hedgehog concept or ekie guy these are just frameworks that help you get that out so definitely look at the hedgehog concept Jim Collins we've got lots of episodes on him check that out ekie guy fantastic book totally get that but and and framework as well so just search that up we'll have links to all of these in the show notes the other one is Kaizen it's also inspired from from Japan as the same as ekie guy there's obviously this idea of Zen but you know what's really interesting is that there are other philosophies from different countries like the Danes have this philosophy that's a bit ekie guy light which is called hege so you can go and check that out there's many good bodies of work that will give you checklists and frameworks really to find when you're in your element when you're experiencing flow one of the books that that I think can really help you that we've talked about and done a whole episode on is Delkan Ege is how to stop worrying and start living and he goes to this linearity of what we're expected to do it in life and how to overcome the challenges with that so there you go there are mark there are so many ways in that can unlock the best version of yourself I think once you're determined that you want to get in there and ask these questions what's the intersection between your passion your purpose what can you get paid for only good things can come of it don't you think that yeah I totally agree and in fact we are so passionate about this topic Mike that you and I and the moonshots family we've created a master series on this very topic which is available for those patreon members as well as subscribers and members on Spotify and Apple Podcast where if you want to go even deeper we've mentioned a few frameworks a few books there but if you want to hear from the likes of Sunson Egg Tim Tapashero run holiday as well as Mark Manson finding your purpose head on over to moonshots.io hit that subscribe button and you can access to episode eight which was a couple of shows ago on finding your purpose as well as all of the other I think we're up to 11 now Mike master series episodes where we go deep into topics just like this on purpose and the element wow wow wow so let's just do a quick recap on where we are right now we obviously we kicked it off with that epic firefighter story which I am just going to tell this like a hundred million times is such a great story and really it was a story of someone who found their element they pursued maybe that intersection between profession passion mission and vocation they did they found what they were designed to do in life and it's all about imagination applied and using these to expand on these to use these concepts like love and talent as well finding what you love finally what you naturally talented at and Mark we are just going to bring all of this home with this final clip why don't you set it up for us that's right I mean this is the perfect real bookend Mike because at the big very beginning we heard from sir kin reference the topics the focuses within this book the element and he touches upon the idea of education and how important it is that our schools embrace kids creativity the way that they approach things and rather than getting caught into that well-trained path like the college versus firefighter we need to be open so let's hear from Ken now bookend the show and close us out with a clip all about creativity and legacy my contention is all kids have tremendous talents and we squander them pretty ruthlessly I had a great story recently I love telling it of a little girl who was in a drawing lesson she was six and she was at the back drawing and the teacher said this little girl had ever paid attention and in this drawing lesson she did and the teacher was fascinated she went over to and she said what are you drawing and the girl said I'm drawing a picture of God and the teacher said but nobody knows what God looks like and the girl said they will in a minute kids will take a chance you know if they don't know they'll have a go am I right they're not frightened of being wrong now I don't mean to say that being wrong is the same thing as being creative what we do know is if you're not prepared to be wrong you will never come up with anything original if you're not prepared to be wrong and by the time they get to be adults most kids have lost that capacity they have become frightened of being wrong and we run our companies this by the way we stigmatize mistakes and we're now running national education systems where mistakes are the worst thing you can make and the result is that we are educating people out of their creative capacities if you think of it the whole system of public education around the world is a protracted process of university entrance and the consequences that many highly talented brilliant creative people think they're not because they think they were good at at school wasn't valued always actually stigmatized and I think we can't afford to go on that way Picasso once said this he said that all children are born artists the problem is to remain an artist as we grow up I believe this passionately that we don't grow into creativity we grow out of it or rather we get educated at it we have to be careful now that we use this gift wisely and the only way we'll do it is by seeing our creative capacities for the richness they are and seeing our children for the hope that they are and our task is to educate their whole being so they can face this future by the way we may not see this future but they will and our job is to help them make something of it wow wow I just like don't grow out of creativity and what's fascinating is we hear about the natural intuitive nature of kids and their minds and creativity but to go a little tangential do you remember we were doing a episode in our health series mark where we talked about stretching and there was I'm going to test you here do you remember the English chap that we studied who talked about the fact that we forget how to sit properly how kids are naturally very flexible and physically they can like put their legs behind their heads and do all this stuff but we kind of forget how to take care of our body do you remember who that was I want to say Patrick McCown but I think he was all about oxygen let's see if if if this kind of inspiration Roger Frampton that's it that's it but isn't this fascinating Ken Robinson and Roger Frampton one takes something from the mind in the heart the other one takes something from the body to make the point of how perfect we are as little children and how we lose sight of our creativity how we lose our physical flexibility I was just struck as I was listening to that it's amazing how it's all about holding onto these gifts that we are born with well and I think this I love that connection to Roger Frampton and the flexible body book and I think you're totally right much like confidence I think this connection that so Ken is making to creativity so confidence I mean to try something new Roger Frampton to stay flexible so Ken's now connecting it with with creativity as well I think this is something as as he says that you you grow out if you fall into the easiest path and we spoken about this a lot on the show Mike haven't we you find the path of least resistance in life and it's it's quite hard to then get off it and I love this idea of almost reflecting as so Ken was saying at the very beginning of the show reflecting on what it is that kind of gets us moving Mike you said the word earlier that I want to come back to what gets us curious and if you can identify those who reflect on them and start to maybe lean towards them then maybe you do start to fall back into that pattern of being a curious and confident individual who's a little bit more invertecomers childlike and willing to go and take those risks totally totally and you know for me that holding on to your to that creativity you have as a kid to me that is just such a strong wake up call that we need to go back to this essence the I mean he can calls it the element this is where the truth is and it's like we just kind of strayed from it right and and what Ken's book does is it brings us back to it just like Eki guy just like Kaizen all those the hedgehog framework all of these things are means to get back to your essential element your essential self how powerful is that enormous and I think it's really in line with that key moonshots concept mantra way of thinking Mike which is to go out and give it a go challenge the status quo take ownership of what it is that you're going to do and for me that final clip there which is encouraging us to not grow out of curiosity and not be afraid to try something new kind of reminds me of some of the big people we've had that we've covered on the show including somebody like Elon Musk whereby unless you're willing to give it a go and maybe to be wrong you're never going to know whether that way of thinking is right or not so like the girl in that final story of drawing the picture of God hey great give it a go it does matter it's the first time that you've done it and again it reminds me of Elizabeth Gilbert with big magic no matter whether it's been done before or not it's going to be the first time that you've done it yeah really powerful isn't it so so much inside of this this this body of work almost wraps around a lot of the moonshots model the moonshots thinking it touches upon everything from purpose to creativity designing your life what a wonderful body of work from Sir Ken Robinson the element I think it was a perfect bookend to our creativity series he's really proven that you don't have to be in a particular part of your life you can be a child or you can be a little bit more mature you can be in any occupation creativity is something that as long as you have the ability to follow that process of imagination and application and judgment I mean it's kind of encouraging isn't it that's really what I'm taking mine yeah yeah and which which of the little nuggets that we discussed today have stuck most for you well you know what I think the firefighter story is just too good I think just that that classic insight that somebody has strayed away from the path giving it a go because they're passionate about it and hearing that it's been successful that for me is a kind of fist pumping moment almost what about you Mike which one is which nugget of you taking away from today I mean you know I love ikigai yeah kaisen and hedgehog but I am with you 100% Mark the firefighter clip was a bomb stormer I mean I almost you know just as a side note production meeting right now we should do like five clips from you know the 200 when we get to our 200th show or something we should do five clips that are the best five clips out of what would have been over a thousand and I think the firefighter one is right there oh yes I think I agree I think I agree maybe even coupled with a clip from Matty McConaughey I'm turning down the oh yes the jobs as well oh yes yes yes and maybe we maybe we do it live in in video so people have to put up with our ugly faces for one time out of 200 well there you go listen as yeah you're hearing us come up with with ideas on the fly so let us know if you agree all right Mark well listen thank you to you and thank you to you our listeners and our members because today was show 179 where together with Saken Robertson we looked at his book he's told the element what a book indeed and the story started with the clip of all clips the firefighter who followed his path despite all of the humiliation and ended up saving the life of one of the people the humiliated him wow wow wow and behind that is this idea from Saken Robertson that life is not fixed it is all about a growth mindset to find your element to find your passion and your purpose and the way you do that is imagination applied and as you go throughout that journey you can use all sorts of great tools to find your love and your talent ikigai hedgehog guys and you name it whatever it takes to find the intersection of what you do and what you love to unlock your talent and make sure that you go back to that inner creativity that you were born with as a child because they're in is the best version of yourself and we are all about learning out loud together how each and every one of us can find what we were born to do our essential talent that's it for the Munchucks podcast that's a wrap