Kelly Wearstler: Interior Design’s Tastemaking Dynamo

My curiosity drives me and I am so grateful and blessed that I get to do what I do. It's all about seeing new things and delving into new avenues that make me continue to fall in love. And that's what life is about falling in love. Hi, I'm Dan Rubenstein and this is the Grand Tourist. I've been a design journalist for more than 20 years and this is my personalized guided tour to the world's fashion, art, architecture, food and travel. All the elements of a well-lived life. And welcome to the first episode of season 10. I can't believe it's already here and before we get started with today's guest, make sure you sign up for my newsletter, The Grand Tourist Curator at the link in my bio on Instagram, at Dan Rubenstein or on our website, TheGrandTourist.net. Almost 20 years ago, I was a young-ish assistant at Connie Nass' House in Garden for the January 2005 issue, an annual affair called The New Taste Makers. I wrote a few pieces on Young Interior Designers in New York, specifically the now legendary Stephen Gembrelle and Miles Red. But on the cover was the star, an upstart designer from Los Angeles named Kelly Worsler. I'll let the words of the magazine's "Angry to Brahmaelich," now it'll decor, by "Angrid," describe her best at the time. Quote, "She's decorating's bombshell. A woman so striking she had to invent a backdrop glamorous enough to do her justice." Kelly Worsler's ferels and tearers have made the LA designer the envy of colleagues coast to coast. On a bashfully theatrical, Worsler won't cover a ceiling with just one chandelier, she'll employ 20. As her book, Modern Glamour from Harper Collins, illustrates, "She loves unusual color combinations such as Jade and Chocobrown, 1970s Geometrics, and oversized animal figurines. When worn, she couldn't paint the corridors at the hotel, Maison 140 in Hollywood Black because it would be too depressing, Worsler went right ahead." End quote. Since then, Worsler has helped redefine the look and culture of Interior Design and the American Home. To say her vintage-fuel, textured, colorful, and oso-sexy aesthetic has been influential is an understatement. Not only has she broken out for being a local California designer, she's become the one woman powerhouse with a staff of dozens. Today, the label of Interior Designer seems reductive. She has numerous collections of fabric, furniture, and more, all with the top brands, has designed so many hotels around the country, notably for the hotel chain proper, and more. Her book, Modern Glamour, really was just the beginning of a best-selling career. Since then, she's done many, including Full Disclosure, Synchronicity, which came out this fall from Ritzoli, written by YoursTroey. Oh, and she's still a bombshell. Indeed, someone like her really could have rested on her laurels 100 times over. Instead, she keeps trying new things. It's why I admire her so much. A new gallery business that we'll get into numerous explorations into the power of AI and design, which we'll also discuss. And she was one of the first major designers to really wield the full power of Instagram, which in today's social media obsessed world, made her even more of a power player. I once described her in an article as a modern-day Walt Disney in Heels. And I think it's apt. I caught up with Kelly from her home in Los Angeles to discuss how she once interned for the legendary graphic designer Milton Glazer. Her explorations into new technologies, how she fits all of this into a life with a busy family, and still has time to be the most physically active person, I know. So your youth tell everybody who may not know your personal story, where your story begins? Well, I grew up in Burtle Beach, South Carolina. And it was an incredible childhood group on the beach. So my mom was super young. She had my sister at 17 and me at 18. And just was always around a ton of female energy. And my mom and both my grandmother's were very strong, independent women. And they all worked. I remember going over to my grandma's house after school. And she was just getting home from work. She worked very early hours. One of my grandmother, she worked at a factory. And another grandmother worked for an attorney. And my one grandmother on my mom's side, oh my god, she worked at a law firm for 50 years. So just always being around that female independence. And my mom was a really creative person. And she really fostered my curiosity and exposed me to the world of collecting. Because every weekend we were going to thrift stores and we were going to yard sales. And she loved fashion. And we would go to auctions. And so really being exposed to just all the world of design and books and furniture and art. And so just as I'm such a curious person, it just opened up kind of my exposure. It's such an early age. You know, some days I'm like, oh my god, we don't want to go. We want to stay home and play. And we would, you know, we would, you know, always be in tow with her. And it was really fun at the end of the day. But that's really exposed my first foray into kind of the world of design. And like, you know, after that, like when did you decide to go to school? Because I know you went to New York. You took some classes at SVA with this, you know, the school for design here in New York. And, you know, what was that decision making process like for you, you know, after high school? Well, during during, you know, the summers, I was always working. And actually I also at 13 years old, I had my first job like in Myrtle Beach. There were all these like little restaurants and cafes and, you know, because I was going to all these flea markets that my mom, I wanted to have my own money to buy things. And so I got a job in a little cafe. And I was making smoothies and milkshakes and, and actually working the grill with eggs. And then I worked there for probably three summers. And, you know, at the end of the day, I'm like counting money. And, you know, and I loved it. It was like really feeling like a sense of accomplishment and empowerment and having my own money and being able to, you know, collect things when I would go to auctions with my mom. I was like super into collecting scarves because my grandmother always had tons of scarves that she would wear to work. And they were graphic and they had color. And, you know, that's why I probably just love graphic design and color and pattern because I was exposed to that so early. And then it continued on like all through high school. I was working in restaurants, waiting tables. And my, my mom and step-to-ad, my step-to-ad had a restaurant that my mom kind of helped design. And I, you know, was working even, you know, in the weekends during the school year, I was waiting tables and just loved, you know, having, having, you know, money to kind of do, you know, what I want to do. So, it was really amazing. And, and then I decided that I wanted to leave Mertle Beach as soon as I graduated and go to college. And so, you know, when you came to New York, part of your, when the history of you that I remember is that you had maybe you worked a little or you had an internship for Milton Glazer, is that true? Yeah, so when I went to school, I actually went to Martha's Vineyard with my mom and step-dad. They loved it there a couple times. And I just loved Boston. And, and, you know, it was just a great place to go to school and tons of kids, international group of students. And so, I applied to Emerson and Massachusetts College of Art. And just because I was paying for school, I took classes during the first year, so I could be a state student. And then I enrolled full time. I was at Emerson and I was at the Massachusetts College of Art. And I was there for four years. And during, after I graduated, I went to New York. I took classes at SVA. And then I got an amazing internship at Milton Glazer Studio. And what was he like? Legendary, you know, legendary, legendary, legendary designers. Like, what was he like working in that studio? I was so nervous. Oh my god. Yes, I was. Because we studied about him in school. Because I took graphic design classes just because of like my fascination with my mom and my grandmom scarves and just love graphic design. And so, you know, of course, you know, reading about him in school, he created the I love New York logo. I was so excited when I got that kind of an apprenticeship because I was there for six months. So I remember going the first day. I was so nervous. And but everyone was like so warm. He had a townhouse was his studio. And it was on the is like Midtown kind of on the east. No, it was in the 30s on the east side like the few interns that were there. We worked on the ground floor. And Milton was on more of the parlor floor. There was the kitchen and it was a little more social. And we would go up there and see him. Like I think it was like every Wednesday. There was like lunch and we all kind of hung out and he was there every day and then he would come down to the ground floor where we were working and check in and But it was a great place to be exposed like he really was a multi-hyphenate because he did graphic design He also designed some restaurants He was doing so many different applications to his his creative voice and so it was a really Interesting just a visibility for me and like when you left, you know How did you go from there to sort of go first going to LA because that's sort of when the Your own kind of your own career journey kind of starts growing up in the South and just being surrounded by nature And like I love the ocean, you know really serves as a constant source of inspiration for me and and I wanted to live near The natural surroundings and and I love New York. I love the urban setting and everything that that city had to offer But I wanted to Really be near the ocean and experience all the energy from an urban hub and an LA was, you know, offered all the above Mm, and so what did you do was your first like kind of I think most people that have Tell memories of LA like they always have like their first their first year in LA is always a little bit Once upon a time in Hollywood like a little bit a little bit of a kind of an unusual like everyone has a kind of a kind of a neo-gothic Kind of experience. What was your kind of first couple of months and or year like living in LA? I had a boyfriend in Boston who Came to LA. He was in the music business and so he was the one person that I knew and Came to LA and really he was Just kind of harsh because it's so spread out and I was in Boston in New York and it's just really you know Everyone's walking around and you're in restaurants and you're meeting people in here It's definitely a little bit of a culture shock and had to find an apartment I lived with him actually for two months only his friends and And I found an apartment and decided that I'm gonna get a job Obviously at an architecture firm or a design firm and I wanted to really do my due diligence and figure out where I Want to live and what kind of design studio that I'd like to work in and so I got a job waiting tables at a restaurant for about four months and I ended up meeting someone who while I was there He said oh some friends of mine. He's a producer and he bought this really cool bungalow in Venice and him and his his girlfriend need help designing it and I was like sure that sounds so exciting and so I met them and I Ended up doing like one room in the house and then they loved it and then I ended up doing the entire project While I was still waiting on tables and figuring out you know where I'm gonna live and all that and And then they someone else saw that project of theirs and then I got another project and so I ended up Working unexpectedly kind of having my own little business going and And it just grew and then I got another project and I ended up hiring my first Assistant and he actually worked at one of the shops that I would you know curate things from and He became my my first assistant. It's like holy shit like now I have like my business and this is like so so exciting I remember waking up every morning and the sky was so blue and just like I feel like just living A dream like just it like just turned so it was just you know incredible and Like you know the avalan hotel was like a kind of a first big break for you And I think that sort of starts where you did you meet your husband around that time or Yeah, so I It was probably maybe four years later I and and this like this last hurrah waiting tables Job that I had in LA just like bared so much fruit because I met this girl who was an actress and She was from Chicago and I remember she's like oh my parents were setting me up with this guy and He's from Chicago and I remember going to her birthday party and and She was with this guy his name's Brad and I was there with my boyfriend at the time and And that's Brad my husband. So like you know sometimes there's things like I was like oh my god I got to wake tables again even though I loved it. It's it's like made me the best multi-tasker and Something so beautiful came came from that last hurrah waiting tables And like and so when you met your future husband that kind of connected to the avalan right so then so I had the the boyfriend And then he had him and and this girl maybe dated like a couple times and and then we became friends and he actually called Marcy this who is my friend and and said hey You know we're buying some really cool historic apartment buildings He's in the real estate business. He actually moved here maybe four years before I did and He said that he needs help with the designer doing like some renovations to the lobby and so I started working with him and at that point I think I had like two assistants and You know it was totally you know just a friendship and an agamist relationship and we start doing different projects and and Really working on some cool historic buildings in like West Hollywood and in Hollywood and At some point and actually I remember working He also bought some buildings in northern California and like this is where like hard work grit and determination really You know is is everything He was like you know obviously they had budgets and we would literally shop and get all of our stuff for the project put it in a large truck and Myself and actually it was my old boyfriend at the time We drove the truck of all the things for the installation ourselves There was obviously people on the other side that were helping to take everything off the truck But we were making it work within the budget Because I wanted to do an amazing job and that's how it was even with some other projects I worked on Early on like there's a budget. I want to have our you know these first projects look amazing I was actually painting myself and not charging them because it was like oh, you know We would you think about color? Oh, I think it would be great, but we can't afford to have paint or we can't have for it have any You know wall finishes and why was like if I do it will you let me paint myself and they're like yeah for sure and so you know that Just having that you really and I was also kind of experimenting and there yes, there were some disasters And I would be up maybe painting all night. They were out of town and I was like painting Make it look good before they got back and might like trusted assistance were Helping me as well and anyway, it was a really kind of fun time and like if you take me back to the Avalon and that first kind of hotel Like what was it like like if you could describe it so Brad ended up getting this hotel I had been working with his company for maybe two years at this point and and I was like I would love to do a hotel. I think it would be so amazing and he's like you know Hey, listen we have investors and it's not just my decision and So he has to you know go back and speak with him You know and he's like my biggest fan my biggest advocate and he and we were not going out at that point and But he knew like you know what a great job and you know, I was hard working and and you know everything we were doing for him And he said you can do he finally got you know an answer. I was Excited about he said you have to find a Architect has actually done a hotel before and you have to do a model room like every time you design a hotel You have to have a model room because you have to make sure it's Operational it's functional. It looks great before you you know design and order everything for all the all the rooms and We did the model room and everyone loved it huge success and then I was able to Find the architect that helped us with the project. It was Coney, Eisenberg There are great studios in Santa Monica and they had done the Mondrian with leap start and they were so great. I learned so much from them and And then the Avalon was born my first hotel project, which was really exciting and Like what was the if I walked into the Avalon in a time machine like what would it describe that that's that hotel to us? So it's a 1950s kind of California boomerang shaped building and all the rooms have little terraces that look onto the pool and has a little restaurant and Maryland and Ro actually live there in our early 20s It was like a place that people kind of apartments slash hotel in the 50s and Just so much like legacy and Hollywood history and it's in Beverly Hills to worser a word from our sponsor, Fulfiko. Found in Rome in 1772, the house of Fulfiko stands faithful to its motto, one of quality, the finest. In 1805, the founder of the house, Madame Clico, took the helm of her late husband's enterprise and became one of the first business women of modern times. Inspired by her legacy, every glass of Clico embodders a spirit of optimism, innovation, and excellence. This spring, the house unveils its newest QV, La Grande Dame Rose 2015. It's a tribute to the woman who founded it all. 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As a leader and outdoor furniture for more than 45 years, Janice AC combines unparalleled levels of craft and engineering to create works by the world's best designers and architects. From Philippe Stark and Pelle Novone to Patrice Urquilla. But beyond the incredible products and designs, Janice AC provides a level of service and expertise that's always best in class. For the outdoor world, it all begins with great seating. But you don't always need to reach for the traditional, expected option. It's something our guest today, Kelly Wersler, knows a thing or two about. The Motone Collection by Janice AC brings a minimalistic modern aesthetic to your space with quick drawing, poster pieces that can be configured in a variety of ways. The brand's first fully-opposter collection comes in two neutral cover options. Pathway White Opal, a warm, inviting soft gray, and Pathway Shatake, a monochromatic, flax and beige. And this year, Motone is adding three highly functional tables to the collection, a freestanding laptop table, and two C-tables that fit the modular lounge pieces like a glove. The perfect addition for work or play. To learn more about this exciting collection of endless possibilities, make an appointment at your local Janice AC showroom or visit Janice AC dot com. That's J-A-N-U-S-E-T-C-I-E dot com. I remember your second book, called Domicilium Decoratus, and it really struck a chord with the industry because it had this like, it wasn't just a book of your work, but it also kind of like epinemized this new kind of look that you were bringing to LA that was-- and let's face it, LA, it was not necessarily a very well-designed city at the time when it comes to interiors. And you kind of brought a huge breath of fresh air. And where do you think that idea that that look came from and what was inspiring you at the time? Was it kind of like, how are people reacting to what you were doing back then? There-- so I remember in West Hollywood, I would drive around. I was kind of like living now at the time with Brad in his place that I actually designed when we weren't going out. Maybe it was kind of in between. Maybe we were dabbling. And my studio was like in West Hollywood, like Kings Road there. And so always driving around West Hollywood, there were all these like kind of just simple box, white box, architectural kind of cottages, homes. And they all had these like neoclassical facades kind of just like stuck on them. And I was like always so intrigued. And I was like, oh, how somebody can take some just super simple little architectural box and make it kind of like dynamic and cool. And it's this like theater. And I remember during the time that we were starting on the Amazon 140, it was one of these like a used to mean apartment building. And there were like 38 rooms in the hotel. And it was like just another box. And so we actually kind of-- I was inspired of taking these like neoclassical elements. And I love architecture and classic architecture. And so we really like resurrected Maison. And there was a lot of kind of French influences. And early kind of like a little Beverly Hills hotel vibe that was infused in this hotel. And it really opened me up to-- there's so many just homes and projects in LA because some of the architecture is really pair down of how you can create magic with some thing that's just a simple canvas. And the Maison 140 was really huge success. There was a tiny little bar there. There was a creative art agency was like around the corner from there. So people would come in and have drinks. And it turned out to be a really great place. It was right behind the peninsula hotel in Beverly Hills. And then during that time, my husband and I, Brad and I, and then Oliver, we moved to-- we ended up buying a house in Trusdale. And it was in 1954, Howe Levit. And incredible bones. We actually bought it from the original owners. And it was fabulous. And so starting to work and this was really kind of the first architectural, really beautiful home that we'd bought. And I wanted to make sure that it was restored with the integrity and leaving all the original elements that Howe had designed. And then just bringing in incredible furniture. And so that Domicillian Decauratus, that book was the second book. And then I had Elliot, my second baby, just moving, working. There was a lot going on. And I think during just that time, really reimagining what was going on. There was a lot of-- during that time, there was a lot of shabby chic. And I just really was not excited about it. And I loved color. And that's one of the things. As I stay true to what I believe in. And I really followed my heart. And I've done that through my whole life. I continue to do that. And not kind of listening to all the noise around me. And people loved it. Really, LA's not rooted in any sort of traditional architectural style. There's incredible architecture here. And it's kind of all over the place, which I love. There's a free spirit about it. And I think it was just kind of the right time when people just were like, yes, color, kind of a new voice. And so it was a really exciting time. Tell me, how was your studio set up today? Because when I speak to people about you and your business, they're always kind of surprised to know how large it is, and how wide-ranging your team has gotten. Explain to people what Kelly Worser HQ is like today. About 10 years ago, I grew out of the Kings Road location and ended up moving to a new space in a Craig L. Wood modern, beautiful building. And we have about 7,000 square feet. And I have about 55 team members. And it's an incredible studio. It's all open, very collaborative. We have dedicated teams to each section of the business, residential hospitality, brand activation, and experiences, industrial designer, which is comprised of furniture lighting, table top, and textiles. Also a gallery, digital and AI innovation team, graphic design. We have e-commerce department and also in-house PR marketing. And we also work with two outside agencies. And it's an open-air studio, tons of cross-pollination going on, which is amazing because we get many of our architectural projects, our collaborating with the graphic designers. And the furniture designers are collaborating with the interior designers. And it's really so inspirational. And the energy is just phenomenal. And how many residential projects do you work on at any given time on average? Say 10 to 12. And some of them are in their beginning concept phase. Some of them are in-- CA, schematic design, and being also installed. So they're not all happening at the same time, which keeps it really doable. And then when it comes to your hotels, how many hospitality, hotel and restaurant projects do you say you're working on at any given time? Two to three. Two to three. And then on top of that, you've got all the product. And so how many jurors count, how many skews that your studio is producing on a yearly basis or something like that? No, God, that's such a good question. But no, that would be actually really interesting to do because there's just a lot. And everything, like I love to see how I'll bring someone over from, say, the graphic designer and I'll have her come over and work with the team of a brand activation we're doing. And maybe I'll bring in the architect and there's just always so many interesting ideas and conversations that go on. And that's why I love having people at the studio every day. Like you just can't have new energy and evolve and have compelling projects. And you're phoning it in. It's just, you know, really hands on touching things, feeling things. It's like so important. And that's how we all learn. I mean, I learn every day. I have the most incredible team. I surround myself with people that, you know, really know a lot more than I do. And that's the beauty of what I do. I'm constantly evolving and learning. And that's what life's about. And like, you know, one of the things that struck me as we were working on the book and talking about all the different projects is you're sort of like encyclopedic knowledge of all the vintage. And when you say, you know, that you're inspired by, you know, trips to markets as a kid, like, you know, it really has stuck with you. Like you really do have a wealth of knowledge and just like an sort of a curiosity for all of the things you go out there and find. And they really do find their way into every project big and small or home or hotel. Like what is your like in a given month? Like, are you do you still hunt for these things yourself? Do you have a team that hunts for this kind of stuff? Like, what, what is that like? So yes, I have a team. I'm still like, and that's why like it's a boutique firm. And even though our output is amazing, it's still a boutique firm. I'm involved in every single thing. And of course, I have team members like the curation that goes on globally for all of our projects, the commissions that we do with artists like all of that's handled by, you know, incredible team members. And they obviously do like the majority of the work. But I also constantly am sourcing on the weekends. Whenever I have a free moment on my phone, I'm like at an auction. And so I definitely engage and participate in all the different things that go on. But there are obviously dedicated team members that are doing it like all day long. And then we all come together and, you know, I always make sure that when we have meetings with myself, obviously there are meetings that go on without me for projects. The creative team collaboration that goes on and we're all there together. We're all just learning. And I love to have the visibility even if it's an intern to junior designer meeting with some of the senior designers. I mean, that's how you learn. And, you know, we're bringing new energy and sitting around a table is when all that happens. And, you know, obviously it's hard in the industry. You know, you've become very sort of synonymous with Instagram, also too. And like this is such a big part of now when people think of you because that's sort of the window in which we view the design world now largely. And so we're all, I think if I could ask a question that I'm sure a lot of people are want me to ask who are listening to this is how do you do it? How are you actually like you do so much and you're doing like so many things and so many shoots and stuff or Instagram and stuff like that and they all look so amazing. Like, how do you do it? And why do you kind of because you were like an early adopter too, I kind of feel like you were the tip of the spear with that whole sort of new sort of social digital universe. So this, I guess it was maybe like when did Instagram start? Was it 10 years ago? Gosh, at least, at least. And I had a gal who is amazing. She was actually my first in-house PR director and she was like, oh, Instagram is launched and you have to do it. And I was like, you know, and I knew about it. And it was like super early on and I'm all about evolving and technology and new expressive ways to communicate your creative spirit. And so I was like, sure, like let's do it. And so we started with things like in the studio and showing different things that was going on and taking photos of, you know, materials out and meetings and then going to the flea market. And then it kind of reminded me of like I did this with, you know, what I did the modern glamour book. It feels very, and people love that just seeing, you know, what's going on in terms of design and the world of design and how you get to, you know, a finished product. And so it's all in real time like so much of it. Like if I'm, I always try and put like obviously what I'm doing in business and have opportunity to document it. So if I'm going to a fashion show in Paris, you know, I'm there for inspiration while I'm there, I'm going to galleries, I have meetings and meeting on different projects. And so really trying to use my time wisely and document kind of what's going on. And you know, I work a lot at, you know, in the evenings is like amazing creative time for me. Like when I put my baby, Crosby, my third little baby boy, you know, DeBed, I come up in my studio and I have like two hours of really like thoughtful time. And like why would you say like today what percentage of your businesses is like the products and the licensing. So I would say it's about 40% of our business because we have department heads in all of the different kind of creative outlets. And so there are, you know, right now I would say we have about 10 active licensing partnerships and it's continuing to grow. And you know, when you think about you try to visualize yourself and your business like in the next 10 years, like do you still want to be known as an interior designer or do you want to be known more as something different from that now that like, you know, you're doing, you're not just doing interiors anymore like you're doing, you're doing so much that like, you know, how do you view yourself? You know, that's a good question and interior design is obviously it's my where I started, but it's grown into so much more and so many more branches of my business and it all comes from really being so curious and open-minded and wanting to learn more and become better at my craft. And as looking back, you know, with Milton Glager, you know, he was a graphic designer, but he also was just kind of a designer. He was like kind of one of the first multi-hyphenate designers and, you know, I would say now I think it's just, you know, a designer, you know, a creative because there are so many mediums that we work on daily and, you know, I'm not about being kind of classified. I like just to keep it open and keep fresh perspective and so I would say designer. You know, well, you're doing so much and you teach yourself AI and you're running a huge business and you've got 60 people working for you. You know, tell me about like a typical day in the life of Kelly Worcester from the moment she opens her eyes to the moment she closes them. So I get up very early. How's the house? How early? 5.30. Okay. And I go to bed early. I love to have eight hours of sleep. I sleep so well. As soon as I hit the pillow, I'm like out and I have my aura ring. I'm like, I'm all about data. And so I'm going to go to bed early. So I really love to see how I slept. I get up in the morning. It's the first thing I do is check out my aura ring and I get up and go downstairs and have an espresso, a large glass of water. And I have, I go outside because the natural light and just being outside so good for you. And I really try and have 30 minutes to myself. And then I go and work out. And I work out for about an hour and 15 minutes. And and that consists of various things. And then I love to wake up, cross me, I love to wake up, cross me, my little baby. And then we hang out for a little bit. And then I go to work. I heard you're, I remember a while ago that you were a big tennis fan or you still like kind of doing tennis lessons and doing that kind of thing? Yes, I love rocket sports. And we actually about two years ago my family and I were in Brazil and we played paddle for the first time, which is actually a Mexican sport that was invented in the early 1960s. And we fell in love with it. We actually have a paddle court at our house. So I take lessons about three days a week and then we play on the weekends and it's a great social fun sport. And it's, I would say it's in between rock a ball and tennis. So it can be really rigorous and and there's a lot of strategy involved and it's really, really fun. I love it. Is it like pickle ball that everyone's talking about now? No, it's actually much more rigorous. Oh gosh. Yeah, because I like to have a hard workout. I, my, my bar is super high on everything I do, whether it's family, work, exercise, my wellness, like I just like to have the bar super high, make sure I give everything equal amount of love and all that. And you're a big surfer. So are you still surfing? Like what is your, like, or do you do set aside time in the year to kind of like, you know, make sure that you're, you're still doing that? Yeah, and I'm not like, I'm not like a great surfer. I have boys that are incredible surfers. And my husband and I surf and we are, we love it and have fun and we, we are obviously working on getting better. But just being in the water with the board, I mean, it reminds me of, of growing up in and I would say I'm definitely more intermediate, I'd say intermediate. I'm not riding like the big waves. (laughing) And I don't do it here because the water's so cold in L.A. And just having a wet suit on, like while I'm in the ocean, I wanna have my bikini on and feel the water, and I love going to warm places, Costa Rica, Hawaii, things like that for surfing, where it's warm. Where's the best place you've ever been on your surfing? - I would say the best place, I mean Hawaii is incredible. I mean, Pipeline, I mean, I love going and just watching those unbelievable surfers. And I got in Pipeline one afternoon and I got right back out. The waves are so big, it's crazy. - Before we return to Kelly Wurzler, a word from our sponsor, ICFF. Every May in New York, designers, architects, press and officials of all stripes converge on the city for an entire month of activities in the worlds of art and design. It all leads up to the big show, the International Contemporary Furniture Fair, or simply ICFF to those in the know. Taking place from May 19th to the 21st at the Javits Center on Manhattan's West Side, ICFF is a vibrant annual hub of design, innovation, culture and commerce. Their exhibitors from around the country and around the world will display all of their latest designs and connect with the community in a variety of ways. The fair recently underwent a massive redesign and is once again a jewel in the crown of New York's design calendar. Aside from the exhibitors, expect to find live interviews, panel discussions, including one with yours truly and British sensation Leigh Brum on the 21st at 1 p.m. as well as a dining lounge, created in collaboration with Be Original Americas. A new section devoted to bespoke levels of craft, a curated library from publisher Fiden and so much more. Will the grand tours see you there? Register today online to beat the lines at icff.com. That's icff.com. So you did a masterclass on interior design and I think you were like the first designer to sort of teach a course like that for masterclass. So tell me about that. - Yes, oh my God, so exciting. So in masterclass approached me to become their first interior design instructor. I was like nervous, honored, just blown away. I'd watched several of their classes and really loved what they were doing and they'd already featured so many my design heroes like Frank Erie, Annie Leibowitz, and a wind tour and really just so enlightening. And so the prospect of reaching a wide audience and aspiring them was really exciting to me. And plus it was gonna be the first time that I was able to bring people inside my studio and show them like the layer of my process. So teaching this class was really such a collaborative experience that it afforded me the opportunity to reflect on my career and just everything that I've learned over the years from my team and a bunch of creative collaborators all across the board. So it was really exciting. - So you have a gallery now as part of your business, which is sort of like an extension of your role as not just as a designer, but also as a brand and you have your own furniture and accessories and so many different products. But now this gallery is sort of like a whole new phase for you. Tell me a little bit about that. - My practice is rooted in curation and artistic collaboration and each one of our projects, features a large number of commissions or custom works by talented artists and seeing a lot of different inquiries and questions of pieces that are at the different hotels that work collaborations with artists. Where can I get these? I love this, who's the artist. I wanted to really bring more of a spotlight on that and felt the need to have these special moments of collaboration come together and creating a small collection of works with these artists and also kind of being their megaphone and they're kind of putting out there their incredible talented artistry and there are many seeds for larger collections and starting a gallery just felt like the right step in my career. - And you started that about a year ago? How long has it been? - It's been about two years and really, it was about 20, I think it was like early 2021 is when I launched it in the gallery. For the team and I, it's kind of like a creative playground. I mean, working with these artists in lighten us, we enlighten them, we kind of push each other and these works are only these unique works that we come together to work on or only available on the gallery. And so in 2021, we did our first collaboration with Dutch Collective Rockins and Studio. We did that whole disco ball series and it was a huge success. And then we also worked with Felix Murhofer. He's from Austria, he does a lot of work with Trato and Stones and he's incredible. Also, Yee Rim Lee, she is from Joshua Tree and many others and we are doing about five to six drops a year and it's just been really fun and successful. - Let me ask you this, like you've had this incredibly successful career, you're gonna have another probably 30 years more in your career or more. But to many people, it looks like you've just gone from success to success. And so I'm wondering like, what was the biggest disaster professionally for you in your career? Was there ever a moment where you just big or small could be even tiny? Where you kind of felt like you got knocked down and or that really sticks out to you. Does Kelly Worcester have any failures in her memory that she kind of looks at you? - Yes, oh my God, oh my God. I mean there's a lot and you learn from them. I mean the probably the one big one that was like really tough to swallow was when I was in the fashion. business and I had a really good friend who was in the fashion business and she reps a lot of the you know really big brands and she was like you really should do some sort of fashion thing I think it would be great and she partnered with me and we worked on a collection and I actually launched a Bergerdorf Goodman and I opened up you know a flagship store in LA and it's like we did too much at one time and I kind of just like stepped into this business still doing interior design but set into this business like full throttle and literally just not knowing like kind of how to operate and what to do so many mistakes and like the passion was there and the excitement and just you know the team and I worked so so hard and straddling also both businesses and it just was like you know major money loser and so you know we ended up you know after three years kind of shutting that whole fashion side down and we actually had a dear friend who was like you guys should just be done because I know it was so so stressful and we really tried to make it work but it just you know you really have to obviously know what you're doing and it wasn't lack of passion it was just yeah so I would say that definitely hurt but you know at the bright side is like I never thought I would have a flagship store and we were selling like we were selling all amazing stores all over the world and you know and it was really exciting but then you know it just was you know just not the right thing to move forward with but I did learn you know about merchandising and cell throos and and marketing and you know in website and e-commerce and wholesale models and so walking away and just you know being better at what I do now but it definitely it definitely hurt so I heard that you've been working with some pretty you know new and innovative stuff with AI in your studio and it's coming from you know a very optimistic point of view even though many people are quite pessimistic about it can you tell us a little bit about AI in your studio and how you guys are using it? Well I think it's going to help just with data analytics and we're using it creatively in our studio but also we're going to use it also with analytics and how we move forward with all the data that we have and really being strategic on how to use it from a business side obviously from the creative standpoint like we're full throttle I've always been really fascinated I mean I read articles so at the end of 2022 when chat GPT was launched you know I began experimenting with the tool and really listening to a lot of podcasts and educating myself and I'm always looking to implement the latest technologies in the studio so we can be efficient and really help to ideate and tell different stories you know with that you know it can be challenging bringing in new technology but so in 2022 over the holidays just really kind of dug in and said to myself at the start of 2023 in the studio I'm going to implement AI and use it in very specific areas of the studio and so spoke to my creative director and a couple other team members that were really kind of interested and knowledgeable about it and began working on it you know maybe a few days a week on specific projects and it really has just been the most incredible tool and I'm super bullish on AI and what it can do creatively for example we're designing mill work on a project and we want to study different types of profiles and some sort of like detailing and also color and materiality and something that might take a junior designer intermediate designer you know several days to a week to render and and give the team options you know we can have this take place in a matter of an hour and there would be so vastly so many more options and like you know are you doing this for like residential projects or everything no we're doing it for everything and so started really with the architectural you cannot ask it to give you a full room because it's open source you just get so much stuff it's a gamble like when we first started we would go you know have three team members working on it for a full day and you kind of end up empty handed because like we were asking it to generate like these full spaces and you know we were kind of you know getting our hands dirty and figuring out exactly what's the proper way to use it to net out great ideation and so really having very specific you know specific prompting and and also now we're creating our own large language model so we're really very specific and it's been super successful for us. You know obviously a lot of people are super nervous about AI I know people can go into certain AI prompts and say you know show me a house in the style of architectural digest that has a polar bear in it and like it will create something very stylish um you know are you are you an optimist when it comes to AI or are you a doomsayer like what tell me a little bit about your what's your take on this. I'm totally optimistic and and love it super bullish you know I always look at you know the opportunity to experiment with new technology and just involve evolve my studio to be efficient you know obviously we're creative practice but you know we're you know the end of the day running a business so having a tool that enables us to be more creative in a shorter amount of time is like unbelievable because that's what as an artist you want to you know have more options and continue to push you know push the boundaries of creativity and so in 2021 I brought AI into the studio and is very specific about you know looking at what teams were you know really curious about it. We you know brought in you know AI models like chat GBT mid-journey, dolly, clawed and it's just increased our creative output and you know just you know it allows us to generate the abundance of ideas and iterations and it also helps to diversify our work and allow us to really push design in new ways. And are you you know have you actually had recent projects where you you use it in the sort of ideation stage. Oh yeah like we you know when we first are using it on a hotel project that we're doing in Lake Tahoe it's kind of a legacy you know historic project and we started playing around with it and trust me we wasted a lot of time not wasted a lot of time but you know it is a gamble on what you get back. You definitely have to have taste and and you know great knowledge of history in order to I think be successful on this using this tool and so we really started focusing on very specific requests like you know mill work details you know maybe in brutalist style 1970s and it would just start giving us you know 50 options within like 10 minutes and you know if we had a junior intermediate designer doing this it could take a week so you know it's unbelievable you know I'm really loving it and you know I can only speak about it you know in my studio and through a creative lens but it's it's unbelievable and right now we're in the midst of building our own LLM which is our own you know large language model and really putting in the time and investment to make it work even better for us and then I'm also working on some really special AR projects and have some investments that are in the works on some cool platforms that I can't wait to share in the future and you know do you ever worry that in the future designers such as yourself become obsolete because some developer will just kind of go go into some AI model in the future and say give me something that looks like Kelly Wersler and then they'll just hand it off to a contractor and then that's it no because it's all in the execution I mean you know it's just like now it's like you have a photo of something in a magazine like can you really hand it that over to your contract or have it built. No. And if people use it as a tool, then for their designs, they're never going to have a unique point of view. So they're never really going to stand out in the crowd of design, because it just looks like the same thing that you see. I mean, it happens now, whether it's on Pinterest, or you see things of social media, there's a lot of sameness. So you use it as a tool to push your creativity and get a lot of ideas that you can curate and move forward with. But as you know, like you have an idea, 80% is in the execution. All right, my last question. This will be more of a fun one. If I just say who is Kelly Worsler? I would say just some gal from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina who likes beautiful things. Thank you to our guest, Kelly Worsler, as well as to Bradley Calhagen for making this episode happen. The editor of the Grand Tourist is Stan Hall. To keep this going, don't forget to visit our website and sign up for our newsletter, the Grand Tourist Curator, at thegrantourist.net. And follow me on Instagram @danruvincene. And don't forget to follow the Grand Tourist on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen, and leave us a rating or comment. Every little bit helps. Until next time. [MUSIC PLAYING]