Kelly Hoey Wrote the Book on Networking...Seriously

Well, here we are in February, what a year January was, hey, yeah, it was a little bit cold, icy snowy, so we're many of us, I should say, a lot of people do like winter, but many of us are hoping for a little bit of a kinder, more comfortable, maybe, February, but you know how you can stay warm and cozy in this winter, that's still upon us, check out my first podcast sponsor, ReInvented Threads with Gabby Lynn. Gabby has a passion for the planet and for creativity, and she takes fabrics, items she finds at yard sales, consignment shops, and that she's often gifted and reinvents them into fabulous, handmade, one of a kind of eco-friendly fashion, like cashmere beanies, neck warmers, and if you're thinking, oh, the heck with winter, I want to think spring. Well, Gabby Lynn is busy at work. She is making all kinds of wonderful, unique, gorgeous handbags for the spring, bucket hats, and so much more. If you go to ReInventedThreads.com, you can look at Gabby Lynn's shop online, but you should also follow the website, not only to learn more about Gabby Lynn, but to follow her schedule, because once spring time and summer hits, she will be busy out and about at different artisan markets and all kinds of great opportunities, usually in the Lehigh Valley region, but sometimes in the Polkinoes and Philadelphia area as well. So be sure to follow ReInvented Threads on Facebook and on Instagram, and learn more about Gabby Lynn and her wonderful eco-friendly fashions on ReInventedThreads.com. Well, I mentioned looking ahead to the spring, and you know, it is nice to dream, it is nice to look forward to the, you know, warmer weather, gardening. I know I'm excited to see spring crocuses and daffodils pop up, hopefully in March, but it is important also to be in the moment, in the present. And my next podcast sponsor can certainly help with that. Healthy lifestyle management with Lisa Regal. Lisa is a lifestyle medicine practitioner. She has experienced as a, worked several years as a registered nurse. She is also a nutritionist, and she's primarily plant-based or plant-forward. And she has also been certified by Brown University as an instructor of mindfulness-based stress reduction. So if you're looking for some help, to improve your wellness, to improve your everyday experiences, to enrich your life, consider taking this eight-week course that's coming up. Lisa offers it. We'll be starting early March, but you can actually sign up now. And if you go to her website, and I will, of course, put this in the show notes as well, because it's a long website name. It is eatbreathemovelive.com. Go there. And if you sign up before February 17th, you can get $50 off this eight-week course. Now this does take place here in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Like I said, it's an eight-week course. Learn all the details on the website and to register there. But you know, if you're not in northeastern Pennsylvania, it's also a great idea to sign up for emails because you can learn not just health helpful, excuse me, information, but you can also join Lisa for a monthly free meditation course. And she does offer other coaching services that can be done in person or online. So if you're looking for some help getting the tools you need to practice wellness and improve your life, check out Healthy Lifestyle Management at eatbreathemovelive.com. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Uncorked with Funny Wine Girl. This is Funny Wine Girl, aka Janine Luby. I'm going to apologize right off the top because, well, that's what I do, and that's what a lot of women do, unfortunately. And I'm trying to work on that. Sorry, wait, I should apologize for apologizing, but I want to apologize for my voice. I've been struggling with a cold, so I will try my best not to clear my throat or do anything that's too annoying. But I am super excited. As you know, every week I say this, but it's true. I love having great conversations each week. And here we are in February already. And that darn groundhog, he apparently saw his shadow. So we've got six more weeks of winter, which kind of stinks, but that's okay. We're going to make it through and nothing could be, I don't think as tough as January. But we're going to have a warm conversation today. And as you know, from me, I like to say at the top of the podcast every week, how I know my guest or how I came to be introduced to them, because I am a person who believes in pushing past our comfort zone, getting out there, meeting people. I love to, I wouldn't say I love to socialize, but I do like to talk to people. I love to get out into the community. And I think it's great to be curious. I think it's great to get out there to events and introduce yourself to people, keep their business card, learn about them, be curious, see how you could help them and vice versa. So my guest this week, I was actually introduced to through two gentlemen that I know here in Northeast PA, Bob court, right? And Marty Wolf, who are really good at networking. In fact, you know, Bob has the Northeast NEPA networkers. I had known them from that. Of course, Marty from his business coaching. He had, you know, great reputation. And the two of them were leading this networking course. I think it's been two years now. And the book that we used as kind of like our guide was build your dream network. I'm holding up here for folks who go to YouTube, build your dream network, forging powerful relationships in a hyper connected world. And the author of that is, you'll see on the book, Jay Kelly Hoey, but we can go by Kelly Hoey. And I was grateful to Marty for connecting me with Kelly and said, you know, hey, can we kind of make a podcast episode work? So today, this week, my guest is author networking expert venture capitalist and many other things, Kelly Hoey, welcome Kelly to the show. I am so thrilled to be here. Now, I was sort of stifling a laugh when you had to start this podcast with, you know, saying, sorry, just being Canadian. Regardless of gender, we do like that word. We use sorry a lot. And then when you apologized about your voice, back in August, I was out doing a joint birthday celebration with my friend Melissa Gonzalez, who is just a retail experience. I want to say she's the guru. She is it, but she's also got a book called The Purpose Pivot. Anyway, we were out celebrating in a noisy location. And my voice has not been the same since. So we can both croak her way through this interview. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, that'll be good. It'll seem normal. Then throughout the conversations. This we're both talking the same way. A gravely, gravely sexy voice that women unite. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I'd like to start smoking so I could have that voice. No, I'm just kidding. I am so excited. I said to you before I hit the record button, I'm a little intimidated. I just see you, you know, you've been written about by Forbes, by Fast Company. That's impressive to me. And I'm sure to many others. And I just, I'm like, oh, I have so many questions I want to ask so many different things. I loved, you know, you have a second book coming out that we'll get to, but there were so many good nuggets in your first book. But before we get to all of that, I'd love to know a little bit more about you. Like, I just learned now I did not know that you were Canadian. So I, you know, I'm going to ask that's not about you, but it is kind of about you in the sense of your connection. I have to say I was reading some of your newsletter articles and some of your LinkedIn posts. And I love your sense of humor first off. And I love your use of gifts or gifts, depending on how you want to pronounce it from shits Creek. So I have to ask or say how sad that we lost Catherine O'Hara this past weekend. Yeah, there's a mess of whole. And I've been thinking about it. I got a lot of texts and things. I mean, I just love shits Creek because, you know, it's just damn funny. But I really thought about it after the head of alumni for alumni program for the University of British Columbia, where I'm a graduate. He's sort of based on Tario and he's sort of building on the alumni who are based outside of, you know, British Columbia. And he texted me and because he gets my newsletter and sees I always have bit of a Catherine O'Hara fan. And I think that that the whole of someone who clearly was choosing projects and aging and living her life on her own terms. And some of us know that she had success prior to shits Creek before home alone, before yelling, "Gavin!" You know, all of that, right? She had a long that there was a long career. And she sent someone who finally was getting the break and the massive recognition. And I love that it was coming in Hollywood without the plastic surgery, without any tampering of who she was. And I just, I think I feel a real loss of a role model, a real loss of a role model today. Yeah. It was, it was incredibly sad to read that at first, you know, a friend text to me and said, "I hope this isn't true." Because, you know, there's so many times where it's, you know, not true. And I'm like, "Oh, it is so sad." I mean, I, I can, you know, it's interesting. I was reading, of course, because now I want to, like, learn more that I didn't know. And I did not realize that she actually was hired or asked to be on SNL. And she gave that up to go back to her sketch, SCTV in Canada, which I find that speaks volumes, too, because she, she went back to her people, like she said, her family. That was her comedy family. And I think that says a lot right there. Again, as you mentioned, her choices that she made. Yeah, you know, like, yeah, we all have choices. We all have, you know, the sort of the community, the network, and where you feel you need to be to thrive. And that's sort of an important thing. And you could have an opportunity outside of that. But maybe the one, I mean, sometimes our networks in our communities can keep us small. We need to listen, you know, kind of what's the advice we're getting. And other times to kind of go, I hold on a minute here. And, you know, the one I'm in is the one that is really, you know, boying me up. It is the one that is providing the opportunities that feel right in a fuller sense, not just in a visibility or paycheck or, you know, whatever. And here's where I can continue to be successful as opposed to or grow from on maybe in a different, you know, different rate, a slower burn, whatever you want to say. But just so many, so many lessons for her. And God, I mean, I hope I'm dancing and laughing. And, you know, at 71, you know, and beyond. But yeah, a real whole, real whole losing her. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, you know, I was watching a little clip of another podcast or another show that you were on about that idea of like staying somewhere that might keep you a little bit small, other people's expectations and that sort of thing. And it's, I think it's an interesting thing that I don't know that there's ever, I don't know if anyone can ever know 100%. That's why you go with your gut. I suppose it's like, do I venture out into this other, you know, thing? Or do I stay where I feel comfortable, where I believe I'm thriving? And I'm sure there's a host of things you could look at and the pros and cons and, you know, the different columns, because you're never going to know there's no short thing, right? But I guess you have to go with what aligns with your, your values and all these different things. But that's a hard, that's a hard thing to, to face. Like, do I stay here? Do I, do I take this other potentially better thing? You know, okay, is it just about the money or can I grow and can I learn? And that's, I think that's tough. It is. And, you know, you're hitting on some of the themes of, you know, haven't even talked the first book. Let's talk the second book, some of the themes in the second book, because who is your network and who you choose to surround yourself with? It matters to all of us, but it is particularly imperative that women take a hard look at what's the network we could rely on. And when you are someone who values those personal relationships, and if we want to make a gender kind of stereotype, but it plays out, you know, women do develop these deep relationships and that, and building relationships that have that depth is, you know, I'm say it's, you know, a super power, but it's also when I kill these heal. And in some cases, so you do need to take a hard look of who is that network surrounding me? What are, are they mirroring, right? Are they opening doors or because of their fears, their hesitations, whatever baggage they're bringing to the relationship, you know, they may be holding you back. And that's, you know, kind of that exercise of stepping back and saying, but what is, okay, what do I need? And let's pull out the socio-emotional, the personal, the person is going to make a cup of tea or pour you a glass of wine, you know, like whatever it is, like the person is going to like, let me take the kids, I'll do the laundry, you know, whatever it is, okay. So pull that out from saying, what is it I'm trying to pursue? What does that thing need? Right? Does that need more time to, you know, hone the craft? Does that need to be an environment that understands sort of a self-deprecating sense of humor, you know, go back and keep going back to Catherine O'Hara, you know, what does, what does my, what is the ambition need? Let's separate that from the emotional and the values. It was interesting when I was researching my second book, because it, it all started because of a piece of research on networking, but the more I delved into it, it was like, that's not the only factor that separates women who achieve their goals and their wildest ambitions, whatever those are personally to them, from equally qualified female peers who just don't quite hit the mark and values play a big role in that, which was self-care and values like who knew those were there. And I didn't mean to jump into your second book already, it's just that came up, but I want to say to go back to, I don't apologize if I'm going to jump around. So your first book, Build Your Dream Network, Forging Powerful Relationships in a hyper-connected world. As I said, that intentional networking group that I attended with Bob and Marty, we, we went through that each week and I, of course, it's funny, I pulled this out last night, sorry, not that I don't carry around with me every day, but I found it on my shelf and I was flipping through it and I'm like, okay, I made way too many notes, I'm not going to ask Kelly about every single one of these, but I will say some aha moments or, you know, I don't know, do we still say that anymore? One of the, some of the insights for myself, which I found interesting, a lot of the book, or I should say a big part that I took from it, the idea is that to be intentional, of course, to be, you know, what will help me reach my goals, like, and where, you know, where do I go for that? But it made me actually kind of stop and think even on a, before I even get to the networking, I think you kind of made the point you have to know what it is you want to do, what are the goals you want to achieve before you go out and make sure you're networking with the right people. And, you know, that is something like I made a note for myself, I'm like, hmm, do I even know if this is, you know, do I even have clarity around that? And maybe I need to get more clarity before I even go out there and, and say, is this the right network for me? Are these the right people to network with? And that's, that's important. Maybe many of us have some confusion or blurriness around that. So I wonder what holds people back? And I also just had to say, I love that we're bouncing around, because then everyone knows this is not a scripted podcast. This is like a natural conversation you can have with someone you're just meeting for the first time. So yeah, like what's sort of like what's the purpose? Because I think we get an idea, we get stuck as I like to say in the verb of networking, let me just go up there and do it. That's the most intimidating thing you could say to someone. Or we think that, okay, if we just go to this one meeting with this one group and we have the right, you know, icebreaker question and some business cards in our pocket that somehow magic is going to happen. So when we're doing that, I want to say that networking that you need to do because you're you're trying to get a job or you've got to get more customers or you're looking for some partnerships. The clarity on, okay, what is what is it I'm actually seeking? Because then you can aren't saying, I need to meet people who will where do those who show up? Because sometimes I think we get frustrated with this whole kind of performance and preparation and showing up is we're not meeting the right people. So let me give you an example. I was at a speaking event in Connecticut. It was for local small businesses. And one of the attendees, you know, after I'd done my kind of dog and pony or build your dream network stuff, one of the guys got up and I had asked everyone when you're going to ask a question, please say who you are and what your business is and then ask your question because I know from experience, if you do that, say hi, I'm Kelly Hoey, I'm the author of the Book Build Your Dream Network. My question for you is to a speaker, I've now not only kind of given this the the person asking the question, choose some contacts, I've now networked with everybody in the room. They now know who I am. They now know what my business is. You know, leaving the auditorium or the venue, they may have a question for me. They may say that was a great question, yes, I had the same one, can we talk about? All right, so in a very passive way, you've networked with everyone. So anyway, this guy got up, he says he's got a local contracting business and he was absolutely clear. He didn't say, I want to make some more customers. Anyone got some more customers? For me, I'm a contractor. No, he said what type of business he was and he said specifically who his customer was. And before I could even jump in and give some sort of, you know, answer to him, one of the other attendees leapt up. She says, I know exactly where your customer is. I don't know exactly where you could meet them and it's at this charity event and I'm on the organizing committee and we could use your skill set as a contractor. Well, that was easy, but who would have thought, oh, networking by volunteering at a charity event will get me, well, guess what? Like, who is the person you need to talk to to get the outcome you want? That means how you engage with them is going to change. And that's why I'm always like, what are you trying to do? Like, what is it that you need? Right? So that's where the goal comes out. Right? I need some leads. I need whatever. Who's the right person to help you answer that? It may be going to an event. It may be sending an email to someone you used to work with. And then what, you know, in that sort of jumping ahead is like, who's the right person? And then what's the right way to engage with them? It's like jokingly safe. You could send an email or make a call and get your answer without having to, you know, do the foe schmooz at a, you know, networking event, like in the typical ones that give us all hives. You know, how easy is that? I mean, seriously, you can network from your coach. Wouldn't that be a great thing? Yeah. Yeah. And again, I'll say I am going to continue to kind of hop around because the whole idea of networking. So I'm going to kind of come back a little bit. I know a lot of people who are like scared of that word, don't like that word because of, as you mentioned, those places where you think of you get the hives, you walk in and like, I'm going to go by myself. I don't know anyone and, you know, how do I like into a conversation? What do I say? You know, and there's an idea. I think some people have, I've been to different events where people are just like, hi, I'm, you know, Tom Smith and I have a, you know, snow clearing business and they hand you a card. Now it's clear what they do and they're handing me a card, but I personally don't love that approach because then they move on to the next person. They're just handing out business cards and networking really is about building relationships. And I, you know, in your book, you said you're networking mantra, networking is every human interaction. Now when we look at that, I mean, there's a lot there really because there's maybe not this, you're not going to get the same thing from every single person. However, in every human interaction, there is potential or possibility, right? So it's like, how do people approach networking? Do they look at it? And, you know, the question, does everybody need to network? I mean, I say, I'd say yes, but I don't know. Because the answer to the question is, we all need human relationships. All right. And so we all need human relationships. Every single human is unique and different. Therefore, networking is a challenge because there's not a formula that fits this. So when you talk about someone who has sort of a formula that they do, you know, in every single networking context, I mean, that's about their communication preference, you know, maybe managing their own anxiety or, you know, maybe the, or maybe the way they look at human beings, you're just some sort of a tool that's useful in some transaction for me, but that's about them, right? As opposed to about you. And so that's why I'm always like, oh, right, what are your preferences? What are the ways you want people to engage with you, but also understand when you are looking to connect with meaningfully with somebody else? You have to think about them. What's their preference? What do they like to do? But the every human, you know, saying networking is every human interaction, that's why I'm like, how do you show up every day? Now, do you, you know, do you greet your colleagues? Do you lend a hand? Did you talk to the cashier? Do you chat with a, you know, fill in the blank? Because I think we've entered an era that, that old kind of networking that you had to sort of network up, right? Oh, trying to get the decision maker, like whatever. But now the decision maker, now the, the, the, the connector, now the person who is between you and whatever it is you're seeking, you know, it might not be that, you know, great Harold old fool who's got, you know, all the years of experience in the corner office. All that, you know, you mentioned venture capital before, you know, people are always like, oh my god, they're going to meet the head of the VC firm. Well, what you're ignoring is they're, you know, they're analysts who's the one running around at the networking events, who's actually the one who's feeding back the information to saying, here's the founder we should talk to. So sometimes it's, you know, you got to understand your industry, you got to understand the context, but if you start valuing humans for just being humans, just never know what's going to open up. You never know what's going to open up. Yeah, that's something that I had said that Marty kind of chuckled out when I was in that course. I'm like, how about just be a good human? Because I think part of being a good human is being a good listener or like, you know, taking five seconds for some small talk or, you know, whatever and, and just being kind and, and consider it, and a lot can be gained. Right. And my, and my guess is that, you know, if you look to say you looked on LinkedIn, you stand on LinkedIn and you're like, oh, I need to have so and so on the podcast, but gosh, we worked together 10 years ago. Okay, no, it is everyone's ego. It's nice to be asked, but it's also a commitment of time. So you never know, you know, how someone's ego is going to be stroked. But if you were like that good colleague, there is, I want to say, really good social science research that shows that those kind of warm feelings from someone reaching out. Like that is a faster rush to reconnecting than, you know, reaching out to strangers. So, you know, if you showed up and you were decent human being, chances are that other person is going to get this brush of endorphins and all feeling good saying, man, have we talked in ages? You've got a podcast now. I'd love to talk to you about it. Whereas if you were the person who was, you know, the unhelpful colleague in the self-centered narcissist at the office, chances are that's going to be a different analysis for someone on whether or not they want to engage with you. Yeah. Yeah. And that is true. Absolutely. I, so I do one of my things in my business. I do therapeutic laughter after yoga. So for a few years, I was going to do these conferences later. You need to lead with that. Because I mean, if anyone needed an ice breaker, like, hey, what do you do? I do laughter yoga. Like I would be all over. That needs to be your ice breaker in every situation where you don't know what to say. Because if someone is not interested in that, you do not want to talk to them. That's a good point. I will say when I do mention it, people go, well, so there's two different things. They go, oh, wow, that's interesting. And when I go, oh, it's like, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, they usually smile at the very least or laugh. Or they latch on to and this is my own business, you know, predicament through the years. They latch on to the yoga part, which it's not about that. But they go, oh, yeah, my daughter does yoga. And they think poses. They think, Matt, as opposed to the stress relieving thing that I do, which is the whole whole ha ha and the intentional laughter. But they also invites a conversation. Oh, your daughter does yoga. What type of yoga does she do? And why is she? Why does she like doing yoga? Now you get them talking. Well, this is the path I took, you know, this is my discipline of yoga, which is a little different than the hot yoga that your daughter is doing, right? It gives you a chance to turn something that, you know, go back to the example of the person is like, hi, I do this. Here's my business card. Move on to the next person. He's not interested, right? He's also not giving you anything that, you know, you're like a fish. You can get a hook in there. But someone immediately going off on a tangent with, oh, my daughter does yoga. What type hot yoga? How long should you be doing it for? What are the benefits she's getting? Yeah, this is why people come to mind. They need this. And I don't get them in a downward dog. I'm trying to get them doubled over laughing. Yeah, whatever it is. Like now, now you're having a conversation is opposed to just introduction. But anyway, we digress. Yeah. Again, people, this is not scripted. I want to tell you, I appreciate that. And I think that goes to my own, I'll say character flaw, where I can be a little bit too rigid at times, where I'm like, oh, they don't get it. That's been my response. And now I thank you for off. I need to lean in and ask them, oh, and that's, hmm, I've been crazy that I've been missing that, but there it is. Who knew? Who knew who would have a little networking spot coaching on the podcast kids, but we are. Here we are. Yeah. Yeah. What I was going to say is I had gone to these conferences and one of the speakers who was a public speaker, some of them were nurses doing humor therapy and others were doing clowning in hospitals. But the one gentleman who was the speaker made the point that about, it's similar to he didn't maybe he didn't use the word networking, but about talking about your businesses that don't limit who you speak to or who you look at as a potential connector. He's like, you could be in your backyard and your neighbor's son is out cutting the grass, don't be like, oh, he's just a teenager or they're just whatever. Anyone you talk to and you know, and you have this engagement, something can come from that. And again, I want to preface that with you're not always looking for something, you know, obviously through people I know through the years, I help them as well. But yes, it's that don't, don't kind of limit or judge before you have this opportunity. All right, I think it's also hitting on the fact that we network with more than I'm going to say our mouths, right? When someone you see someone's body language, when you're sensing that what they're saying is, you know, like you're going to hold it very long, you know, they hesitate it. Why don't I ask them about that hesitation as opposed to being this, oh, hi, hi, you know, like, oh, how's it going? Going well, like, you know, that kind of, that that that that that failure that we as humans have in taking small talk from small talk to bigger talk, every time we have that, hey, how's the weather? Tired of the gray, right? And you're like, wow, it's really been weighing on you this year, right? We all have a chance to make a human connection. And so when I get actually really feisty when people say they hate small talk, I'm like, no, no, no, that's our failing to turn it into something. So we're like, oh, yeah, it's just the teenager next door mowing the lawn. Well, you don't know, you don't know who's having, he's having converse, you don't know who's out there lots. He's mowing, right? A friend of mine, the vital connection he needed came through his personal trainer. And the personal trainer asked a simple question, hey, how's it going to work? Or what's going on with work? You know, the answer could have easily been, oh, it's fine, usual busy markets up and down, right? But instead said, you know what? This is what I'm trying to do. And the personal trainer said, uh, I think one of my other clients is a member there. Why don't I make the, let me, let me confirm that, make the introduction. Like, sort of think about that, right? Like, oh, right, who else are these people interacting with? Sometimes we can make a really, we can, we can do so. We can, we can, you know, kind of constructive thinking and we can go, all right, let me figure this out. And other times, you know what? Just throw it. I mean, there was a founder who was in the women's health space, taking a cab, you know, in, in the Midwest and, you know, the cab Uber driver, you know, asked a question. And she started talking about her business, you know, women's health, talking about it with this guy. This woman's husband is in the back seat and he's rolling his eyes like, why are you bothering? Right? Like, this dude is even going to be interested, you know, in women's health issues below the waist, right? Like, literally, this is going through her husband's mind. And the cab driver said, "Oh, I should get," or the Uber driver said, "I should get your, um, I should get your heart. My wife's training to be a gynecologist." You never know. So why, you know, I mean, I mean, I remember one time, I made a glaring like assumption getting on a plane, you know, the person who was sort of too loud and too much space, you know, like, to get on the plane and it ends up, I was sitting next to him, first realized he was a fearful flyer. That's why he was chatty-cathy. I am not a chatty-cathy on the plane. He was a fearful flyer. He was also a roadie from Anthra. And he had just been working with Anthrax, Touring in South America. I had the most interesting flight for two and a half hours. Wow. Once I had dropped the assumptions about, like, chatty guy in a dirty t-shirt, then it was like, "Oh, this is just interesting." So anyway. Yeah. I agree. I like small talk. I love talking to people of fact. I'll give it. It's funny. It's a running gag. My friend, Kristen, who does not listen to this podcast. She only listens to two crime. I said, "What do I have to do? Commit a murder for you to listen?" I'll be the subject of a podcast. But she doesn't listen, Kristen. But when I'm with her, she's where the opposite. I'm the type that tells people things and we were at a con, or she was doing work in Pittsburgh. I was with her. I got to tag along. And the guy who's the valet or whatever the gentleman holding the door at the hotel. And I'm like, "Oh, well, I'm just going out for the, I'll be back." And she looks at me. She goes, "Do you think he cares?" But who is she always telling? Oh, no. This is what you say to her. It's my true crime move. Because guess what? We're here in a city we don't live in. If something happens to me, that guy's going to remember, you know? When a field of parole comes around to investigate my disappearance, Dormann's going to remember it. Like, I talk to my, I live in New York City. I talk to my Dormann all the time. I talk to other people's Dormann. Why? Why go missing? You know, I know that, you know, Miss Marple's not going to be around. So I need the doorbell. That's smart. Now I'm going to tell her that. She thinks I'm too chatty. But I get, I happen to like talking to people that way. Let me ask you. Do you think, well, I know the answer, but I want to ask, or I should say, your interpretation of how it's affected between COVID and, you know, so much going on with social media. How do you see how that has impacted this ability for people to connect? And I know that we, a lot of us have talked about this and say in real life, you cannot replace that in real life connecting. And I do understand there is a place for, you know, maybe people who are shy or they're homebound, things like that, absolutely. But it's, again, it's that slippery slope and tricky. And I feel like COVID kind of maybe dampen some social skills or whatever we want to say exactly. Right. I think we've been on a kind of a slip and slide. They're a date me slip and slide in terms of bad social behavior. I think the, because you can throw an AI on top of that. There are nuances with engaging with someone that you miss. You know, we all misinterpret an email. Right. We can all interpret an email correctly when we know the person. Right. Or we can look at the text and say, God, they're being rude. But then we're like, Oh, right. It's five o'clock. They're doing, you know, grocery shopping and they've just done school pickup and they've stepped off a train. No wonder I got you right. We can start putting it in the context of somebody's life, the digital, when we've known them, when we've paid attention to what's going on, when someone is transparent about their, their, their schedule or their life. And we lose that transparency on digital. People are throwing sort of the idealized version of themselves. You know, a lot of the time we don't, you know, maybe almost your celebrity. We don't want to hear all the problems like, you know, kind of save it. So I think there is definitely, you know, sort of a slide into making poorer connections, not using these tools in a way that can make us more human by either thinking about social media site as, Oh, what's the, what's the similar? Where's the in person that mimics this? Okay, this is the behavior I need to bring on this platform. You know, like I always say, LinkedIn feels like, you know, I was the lawyer in my first career. It feels like an American bar association conference for me. Like when I'm on LinkedIn, like that's, I sort of feel like I got to put the suit on. I got to be professional. You know, like all these, these sites have different, you know, kind of cultures and personalities. I think we sort of have to sort of think about, all right, what am I stepping into? And, you know, for people who are like, out of practice, guess what? You know, in terms of meeting people and whatever. The only way to get over the fear, the hesitancy, the discomfort, you know, that might always not, you might always have a little bit of discomfort, but to get over that, the only way to do it is by practice. You know, you know, things you can do, you know, to kind of step in gently, right? So you're going to go to a conference in a month that's going to be in a big hotel and it's going to be one of these things, with like all sorts of people, right? Well, wherever you live, find a venue that has another conference going on, one that you're not attending, and just go sit in the lobby, watch all the other people coming and going and doing whatever, because then you can be like, okay, I'm going to be stepping into a scenario like this. Let me see how people are moving and grooving and, you know, what are they doing, right? This is where that go back to where we started. Like, why are you going in the first place? I am here too. Like, hey, you know, that's a great way to start a conversation. If it's your first time attending something, you know, going up to one of the organizers, this is my first time. Who do you think I should meet? This is my first time I chose to be here tonight to do X and Y. Can you give me some assistance? I mean, you know, for all the conference organizers and event organizers out there, you do have a responsibility. So there's like things like that, or you could volunteer, right, at any of these events, and you're handing out the name types, like, sort of start working that muscle and getting some practice. And then, you know, one of the things that one the exercises I always tell people to do is you gotta audit your own network and behavior, because you may be fearing meeting new people. Well, everyone, you know, doesn't call me back. Well, you know what? Maybe it's time to look in the mirror, look at your own pattern of behavior and say, what needs to shift in what I'm already doing? Because that may reveal, you know, why you're not having this success or why you find it frustrating. And some little tweaks there may, you know, you may not have to go and do all sorts of new networking, that old networking and doing this needs a little tweaking and fixing. And I love that example. Again, you're giving some gold here. That example of like sitting in the lobby and observing. I mean, that's something very tangible. Someone can do like, okay, I'm going to go just to get myself comfortable. I love that idea. I like to that you would, I'm sorry, I'm going to go back a little bit when you said about like, when you're sending the text, sometimes digitally, you don't know, they might be busy at five o'clock. It makes me think of the article I saw your post the other day. Again, I love your humor. You had a picture of operation, the game from the 70s, which I love, which I didn't have as a kid. I ended up buying later, many years later, when I was going to different events because I wanted it to be a fun thing for people to come over and look at at my table when I was promoting laughter yoga. But I love that you talked about the heart and the head with networking. And I think you brought up that example about like the the the head has the facts, but the heart has the empathy and the understanding why has someone not replied to your texture, your emails and it's like everything that's going on in the business, maybe it's budget time, maybe it's hiring time, maybe it's but oh, by the way, there's also their humans who have personal stuff going on. And I love because that's a really fair point. And I think I'm guilty of that sometimes where I sometimes also time I can't really understand it. I'm like, oh my god, it's been forever. And they didn't get back to me. And I'm like, well, okay. So it's really only been three days. Exactly. I mean, your head could be like, this is the perfect email. You know, and your head could be like, AI, this is the perfect email. And here's the things to send. And then your heart is like, yeah, no, because I'm a human being. And if someone sent me these communications, I would be either blocking them, putting them into spam or calling the police. Like, by one of these three options, right? So that's when you're like, your heart needs to come in, your experience, your gut, like, oh, when I was doing this job, here's the things that matter to me. Right? Or, oh, let me look and see what this is going on. Right? Like sometimes when people are planning business trips to New York City, where I live, I'm like, check the school schedules, both public and private, check when all the holidays are, because I'm going to tell you, this is when people aren't around. Yeah, that looks like a good week to come here because the airfares and the hotels are cheaper, but I'm going to tell you right now, let's you just want to go to Broadway shows. Know when you want to meet. It's going to be here. Like, these are the things, right? They sort of like recognizing these patterns, but or recognizing that you can get someone's attention by sending them an email early in the morning, but also understanding that they're on their commuting, they're on a train. Therefore, let me write my, you know, my networking communication with, you know, lots of white space and bullet points, because they're going to be scrolling on a phone. That's a heck of a lot different than looking at it on a computer screen. So some of these things, these are like, what's their context? And let me just, you know, kind of maneuver myself and recognize that, but I love that you love, I knew that you had operation. My friends, our friends have it. I remember the commercials, like really wanting it. And then friends got it. I'm like, it's kind of boring game. Yeah, there's not a hell of a lot to it, is there? I'm going to get that funny, bro. Yeah, I remember that. That was the big, yeah, oh my gosh, that takes me back to like light bright and everything else. All those other fun games. I want to ask you and again, the jumping around, we've already, I guess I should stop apologizing for that, because that's what we're doing. But you're new, you're new as well. You're not Canadian. I do love Canadians. I do sympathize with the Canadians. I think it's a great country. It looks beautiful. Yeah, just, you know, the positive, you know, the apologizing of it, you might just be Canadian signs. You might be Canadian. You apologize. You say sorry a lot, or you like playing Apple on the pizza. Anyway, we can, oh, I do. Oh, there we go. I just, I think we need to check your, your family tree here. I own a tube as well. So, I think, I think the prime minister of Canada is going to be sending you your citizen chip paper. Yes, excellent. Your newest book that, and I don't know if it's out yet, and we could talk about that, social billionaire, and I have the full name, but I'll allow you to, I'll, I should say, I'll let you say it. So I don't mess it up. I did get the sample, the sample, excuse me, the chapter two sample. And you had mentioned about audits. You just mentioned a few minutes ago. It's important to audit your network. And I love that in that chapter, that's, it, there's an exercise for you to do about, you know, auditing your network. And, and we go back to a point we talked about before, not judging. Oh, just, you know, oh, I don't have the right people. They're not, take a look at who is in your networks. And, and I love that taking the time we're looking at who's in your networks, but I also love the example you give this very great list of places that you might not think that you can network, like all these different places where you, again, it's about human connection and reminding people where they can do that. I love that. Do you want to speak to a little bit about that? I love that idea of the exercise of thinking about all the people you know, and I will take it back to your first book. And I remember one of the points you made, because we always talk about all, you know, it's about who you know. And I think your point was not about who you know, but who you know knows what you do. So, and I think that ties in as well. Yeah. So, yeah, so the second book, The Social Billionaire. So this is based on research around the network structure and certain networking behaviors, but network structure of highly successful women, or high achieving women. And it was a lot of the research, you know, after the first study I looked into and was asked to comment on, a lot of the studies were literally, they were comparing apples to apples, you know, like in a workplace or in management. So these are all people with, you know, sort of the same drive, same credentials. So you're not like, oh, these people were from Harvard and this person was from a community college or, you know, whatever. And when you sort of factored out some of the things that you could think of, even you can say, oh, well, there was, you know, bias or something else in that work environment, there were still women who achieved more than their equally talented peers. And it was like, what was the difference? Why were, why was this group, you know, more successful? And what was the difference between them gender wise versus the men who were highly successful? And it came down to a number of factors, but one of them was the network structure. And when I read this and then found that the pattern repeated itself beyond the initial research, I was like, okay, this needs, this needs to be out there. This information needs to be out there. This is like a recipe for success. And who doesn't want to have the recipe for success? So I'm glad you downloaded the second chapter, the sample chapter I gave away. The book will be out soon. It will be available on Amazon, publishing it that way for a variety of reasons. The main one, you know, ultimately being, it gave me control over the layout and the design of the book. Because this book is, yeah, you're going to have to do some naval gazing and some work. I mean, it was hinted at in Build Your Dream Network in terms of, like, here's some suggestions, but based on that kind of feedback. And then when I originally started writing the social billionaire, I was sort of writing it like a traditional book. And I thought, I'm going to bore myself, writing this, let alone handing this to someone. So it is the entire book other than, no, even in, I think, I mean, I have to look at the introduction. There may have even been an exercise at the end of the introduction. Yeah, there is. The entire book is like chapter two. Chapter two is the extreme, but every chapter has got exercises or reflections. Some of them like chapter two, I would say to people, you have to do that one. This is, this is like the baseline. But the others, you know, what I found was with these, with looking at the research, you bucket it under three levels. Why these women were more successful than their equally talented female peers. You know, one was focus. So your goals or opportunities, your values. The second was grit, your mindset, your time allocation, your self-care. And then the third was this unique network structure, right? Having an inner circle predominantly of other women, who come, you know, I say, are like-minded, so equally ambitious, and have diverse networks. And a lot of the times I find women who are like, oh, I've got my group of friends. We've been friends for 25 years. I'm like, yeah, and what do they do? Are they the right kind of personal board of directors that you need for what you're trying to achieve right now? As opposed to your personal board of directors you need for other reasons, right? So it like comes back to that. And then this sort of, let me say maybe the other piece of what we think about networking is when we're meeting new people. And that's where it comes down to like are the other second networks like are you locating yourself within the information flows within the industry or sector that you're in? That doesn't mean you have to go to every single networking event or belong to every single chamber of commerce or professional group, but you got to be aware of what's going on so that you're not, you know, a day late and a dollar short on getting information. Yeah, but the entire book is like, so I found with one of my advanced readers, she and she became one because she literally knew like across, like she just had to walk out of her office over the threshold across a small landing and there was the network she needed for this business idea she had and she couldn't understand why she wasn't making that step. And so under these, you know, kind of three pillars in this book, you know, focus grit networks. I'm like, yeah, you need to analyze that goal of yours. You say you really want this thing. You say you really want to start this new venture, but do you? Like because you've already recognized you're not taking the first step, which is knocking on the door that you don't even have to go outside. It's just across the landing three steps. You're not doing it. Why aren't you? And I'm like, here, I'm sending, I said, I'm sending you that chapter. And like, I'm sending you the book, but do that chapter because my guess is that's where you're stump like, oh, and behold, that was it. She needed to do that kind of journaling and reflection on why does this goal matter to me? And once she was able to do that, oh, I'm putting the door and crossing the landing was easy piece. It was, mm-hmm. Yeah, I love the other also in the chapter too, which I just found it amusing, but also truthful about, it was a mistake that an entrepreneur had made and reached out to you about this idea of why do so many of us kind of like wait for this night and shining armor kind of like where we're reaching out to strangers for things when we should be looking at who we like, who knows how good we are at what we're knows us and what are those networks instead of relying on like this stranger to just come along. And it's just, it's funny because I mean, I'm sure it could be a parallel to many things in our lives, like, you know, what we want to achieve, whether it's relationships or relationship with a family member or parents or our weight or money. I mean, really, I feel like if you kind of get these kind of, these kind of skills are useful probably in a lot of, they can apply in a lot of different areas of our lives. Well, think about how we met. I mean, you could have just reached out and said, you know, because, you know, my email address is on my LinkedIn profile. It's on my website. You know, you could have reached out and just said, "Hey, I've been a podcast. You know, I read your book. It's great." "Bah, blah, blah." You know, here's my calendar link. Could you get on my calendar? We could talk about it. You could have said that, right? And who knows? Depending on what's going on, like, how and when I would have answered it, right? I could have answered with like, "Well, that sounds interesting. Can you tell me more?" Like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I could have, you know, ponded off, you know what? You could have said, "Hey, thanks for reaching out, but I'm not doing podcasts right now." Like, who knows, right? But instead, you had Marty reach out. And Marty reached out to me before he made the introduction. And he's like, "Here's the deal." And all of a sudden, it's like, "Oh, Marty Wolff says I should meet this person. I know Marty Wolff. I have all the time, and Marty, if you're listening to this, I have all the time in the world for Marty. I had like, such profound respect for that man, right? And I know that he's not going to make an introduction that's going to be, you know, BS in a waste of my time." So all of a sudden, I'm like, "Oh, there's a huge trust bond here. If Marty thinks I should do this, because he's not going to send me an opportunity that he thinks is crap." And if he sort of thought something was sort of like, "Ah, I don't know about this, Kelly, but I thought I'd reach out anyway." He'd probably say that to me in the communication. And all of a sudden, it's like, boom, boom, done. When you want to schedule. Okay, let's go. That was easy. So there's why, like, looking at who you already know, and going back to that conversation, you know, earlier in our conversation, when you talk to the kid next door, mowing the lawn, that's why having those kind of, "Hey, what's going on, you know, what's happening?" Like, whatever. And you're like, "Hey, this is what I'm up to," as opposed to saying, "Oh, yeah, everything's great. How are you?" Right? Like, just taking that little further. Here's what's going on. Did you know I have a podcast? Yeah, I'm looking for some new guests that I really would love to find someone who does X, Y, or Z. Well, you don't know if they know someone who does X, Y, and Z. Oh, that sounds like my sister-in-law, or that sounds like, "Oh, my God. This is what I went to school." She said she's doing that now. You should talk to her. Like, who knows? And that trusted warm introduction, that's a fast track to getting a yes. That's a fast track to getting a yes. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And as you're talking, I'm thinking two of, well, not only am I analyzing as you the lovely point you made before about when they go, "Oh, my daughter does yoga." And I need to lean into that. But I also, I need to, I start to audit my conversations even in small talk. I go to Wegman yesterday morning. As soon as I walk in, I run into a woman. I know hug her, talk to her briefly because she's out the door. This other woman, we unfortunately, we were blocking people. We're checked because I hadn't seen her. And I've, and of course, the whole time, I'm like, "Sorry, excuse me. I felt bad." But we're talking. And it's like when people do say, "So what's new with you?" Or, "What's up?" I do find myself giving them the download. And depending on who it is, well, you know, dad's health issues. And I'm, you know, driving them both of my parents to appointments. I tend to lead with the heavier stuff instead of, "Hey, did you know I'm celebrating my five-year anniversary in my podcast?" And I've got some really exciting events I'm planning. And why don't I lead with that? Now, you're not a psychiatrist. So I'm sorry. I'm not actually going to be asking you, Kelly. But I'm not in my small talk, too. But also, too, it's, yeah, that's a good question. And maybe it's because, you know, the other person's going, "Oh, that's really too bad." And oh, we should get together. And I need, like, whatever, rather than saying, all right, let me look at them in a context outside of. I know they will empathize because they also have aging parents or they will empathize because they also have a teenager or they will empathize because they're also in the midst of a job search. You know, why not? Why not? Lead with, "Hey, here's what's going on." And guess what? You should come to one of my events for the podcast. All right. Yeah. Why not? Like, some of these people, like I said, you know, some of this, you just, you just never know what people's interests are. You don't know who they know, you know, we're also hesitant to get out of our own rut. You know, we're waiting for someone to invite us out of our rut. And, you know what? Maybe you can be that person. Maybe that little instigator to get them out of the rut. Yeah. I think sometimes I just, I'm too damn tired, but that, like, I don't want to put the energy into this. Well, there is that. But those are two. The fact that you had this conversation that you had to end because you were blocking, that's a great way to reach out to someone and say, you know what? I was so happy to see you. Like, sorry, we were annoying everyone else in Wegmans by blocking their way. But because we didn't get to talk further and, you know, I was, and I led with, you know, you know, the heavy Monday, you know, heavy and, you know, serious, but, you know, kind of mundane of life of, you know, doctor's appointments and aging and aches and pains, I didn't get to tell you any of the good stuff that's going on in my life. And I didn't ask, get to ask you about the good stuff. So, when are we going to meet in aisle three at Wegmans and not block everyone's way and have a conversation about the good, like, I don't know, which is the good island, you know, at, you know, probably the produce is wider. So maybe, I don't know, I'm thinking, you got to meet in front of, I don't know, the, the wine or the candy or anything. You go for produce, right? But, you know what? This way you could make some sort of joke and maybe you're like, okay, you know what? Maybe there's some other time and place that we could talk about, like, what the good stuff that's going on. Right? Or you could say, you know what? I'd love to hear, I'd love to hear what good stuff's going on in your life. And let me offer this up. I've got a really good thing. I've got a podcast. I've got an event. And here's the date and time. Put in your calendar now because I would love to see you there. Yeah. Why not? Yeah. Yeah. I will say in my own again, here's the apology defense. I did it. We did talk about the good stuff in her life because I do see her posting about her kids and how well they're doing. And I said, I see they're doing great things. So we did talk about that. I just didn't take the opportunity to share mine. But again, this isn't a therapy session. Sometimes, I mean, networking sometimes is there because you got to understand where's like, where's the blockage? Right? And sometimes people have, I want to say, a blockage because they're so fixated on the how, right? And like the right way to do it. I remember coaching a woman who charge of, I'm saying, partnership and events for the city of Albuquerque. And so they on any given night, she had five, six, seven, eight events because of their community of partners. And she was going and spending a lot of time at each of them because she thought in her mind, this is what you do when you're networking. And finally, literally, she wasn't getting home down for her kids without school or her stuff. I finally looked her and said, you're stuck in a rut about the right way to do it. How do you know that's the right way to do it? If you were there to meet the community partners. So who's the most important community partner? Like at a community partner event, who's the most important person? Well, this person or this person. I said, when do they get in the event? They get there to set up. Why don't you go and talk to them when they're setting up before they have chaos? Like, do you really need to talk to everybody else there? And all of a sudden breaking yourself out of the mindset and giving yourself guilt because she wasn't getting home to help her kids with homework, giving yourself guilt for not spend, you know, not going to these events and not having enough time with people she needed to talk to, right? Sort of the boredom and the tense kind of state she got in herself to because she felt she had to spend a significant amount of time at each of these events, chatting with a bunch of people that she didn't need to be chatting with. And it was like, what put you in that? Like, why did you lock yourself in that prison? Let's get you out of that one. And once she sort of freed herself from the right way to do it. All right, so I sometimes think like, you know, kind of advising on networking is like therapy. Yeah, I can see. And I didn't intend for all that. I'm like, so Kelly's like, oh, boy, she's got a lot to work on girl. But it's also, too. I think, you know, there is that element of, you know, like, that was the most important thing in your mind at the moment, but also to sort of say, all right, if that is the most important thing, like, where can I get some social, emotional support to just talk about that thing? So in other environments, that's not the one that's dominating. Yeah, that's a great point because I do find myself guilty of that. When I'm thinking, why don't I lead with, you know, five year anniversary of the podcast, 20 year anniversary of my business laugh to live like these are all good things. And then I think sometimes I suffer from this idea of they don't really care. But I, you know, I'm going to go back to the personal stuff. I feel like where, you know, where is the support you need on that? And that may be just the friend, the sibling, the spouse, the whomever that you just look at and you say, okay, set the timer. 15 minutes. I just need you to bear witness and I just need to go off on this part of my life. I just need to do a whole dump of the burden that I am carrying. I don't need you to fix it. I don't need solutions. I just need you to hear bear witness. When the alarm goes, I zip it and we move to another topic. I just need somewhere to go because I'm carrying it. Yeah. I like the idea of a timer. I think it should be okay. Let's put a limit on that. I think it's, I think with our, with our, you know, and it's the smallest part of my next book, the, the, the personal because there are so many really good books out there in terms of personal relationships or loneliness or finding friendships or making, you know, Dr. Ruth Westheimer's written with Alison Gilbert as her co-author of her last book on connecting. I mean, there's so many good books on making those like for those, for those personal reasons, but you know, sort of the acknowledging in the social billionaire that you need this category. And so I like to say give the right network the job to do. But I think with our personal relationships, in some cases, we need to tell it what job it needs. Like mom, I love you, but please stop criticizing like my choices on my career. What I really need you to do is see how tired I am and put the kettle on. All right? Like, this is what I need from you. I know you're scared and worried and frantic because I'm an entrepreneur and I've just left a really big paying job, you know, XYZ. But here's what would be really great right now. And I love that you're scared for me, but I'd love you more, you know, if we could just have a cup of tea and talk about what you're going to plant again, your garden after, you know, winter is over. I love that. I love that. Listen, I could talk to you forever and I want to be respectful of your time as we approach almost an hour here. I do want to, I had this kind of funny notion when I was like a planning for this. And I thought of like, how does one become, you know, an expert in networking and I kind of imagine a little Kelly going around her neighborhood looking at like lemonade stands and go and taking notes of who is the best entrepreneur, but then I realized I saw in your book that you're like, I've been called this, you know, an expert networker connector, but that is not at all what I set out to be. Listen, listen, relationships have always been important. I learned a lot about building relationships when I first started practicing law because, you know, province of Ontario, you don't advertise. It's all on relationships and word of mouth and all of that. So that kind of like, and how do you build relationships for the long time? And the long term can't really kind of gel there, but, you know, this is what I always say to people, stop and listen to your network. What are they telling you? Because, you know, they may be seeing more new than you see in yourself. You may say, why does everyone ask me from this? And then if you look at your behavior like, because you keep offering it up, the thing you don't want to do, you need to change your behavior rather than being angry at them, or that thing that you're like, you flip off and you do with ease, you know, the thing you think, well, doesn't everyone do it this way? Maybe not. And maybe that is your magic and that's the thing you should explore. And so, listen to your network as much as you're trying to talk to them, listen to them even more. While you're hitting on a lot of things, I'm like, oh, I should take a note of that too. The behavior, if I'm doing it, then that's why people are asking, yeah, I run into those issues with like, you know, a lot of nonprofits asking for things for either free or next to nothing. And I'm like, I'm getting angry at them, but what is my behavior? That's, wow, whoo, you're hitting on all the hits here. You know, when the next book is out, you know, get this podcast episode out in the world, you know, get a few more out there, you know, with some other people and then guess what? I'm happy to come back for another therapy session because this has been, this is one of the most enjoyable podcast conversations I've had. So I thank you and I thank Marty for that. So yeah, I'd come back and talk to you any day. I appreciate that truly because I always, I do want to be respectful of people's time, time, excuse me, but I would like, I mean, there's so many questions that I have that I, and I know you're what you're offering up is so I think insightful and useful. And I know it's not just to me, I know it will be to my listeners as well. So I do want to thank you for your time. Let's give a plug. I've mentioned the first book many times and of course in the show notes, I will put that in there, but do you have a release date for your your book coming out, Social Billionaires? The Social Billionaire that will be probably sometimes worth the end of this month. I'm just waiting on the, I have some just fabulous people who have said, yes, yes, they want to review and give me the advanced praise. And, you know, I like, in all good things, I have to ask people I know, as opposed to complete and utter strangers, and the people I know want to read what I've written. So I had to give them a little bit of time. That's completely understandable. That's fair. And so, so, so, but people, you know, you'll put this in the show notes, you'll, you know, have Builder Dream Network, you know, when they put the link to the the freebie chapter of the Social Billionaire, make sure you have that link. And if people follow me on LinkedIn or subscribe to, you know, any of my newsletters, whether it's the LinkedIn one or my personal newsletter that comes out twice a week, you'll know when the book's released, you'll know, you'll know. And I will put definitely put a link in for the the download. But I, I highly recommend that you definitely follow Kelly on, uh, on LinkedIn and subscribe to the newsletter. Because again, I love, I love the use of humor. Obviously, it makes things more fun and interesting to read and, uh, you know, I mean, the shits Creek gifts or gifs, I just love. So as soon as I saw those, I'm like, wow, she really is a fan of shits Creek. I love this. This is awesome. Listen, some of this week, you know, when you said at the beginning, you were like, oh my god. And, you know, kind of, you know, it was a nervous or whatever you were feeling when we were going to have this conversation. I'm like, I just wrote a book on networking. I'm a former lawyer. You know, I got two failed marriages. I'm not that impressive. I'm not negotiating pieces, you know, in some disgruntled part of the world. I'm not curing cancer. I haven't, you know, got the answer for childhood diabetes. So I think that's, that might also come with, you know, doing, you know, some, some sense of humor because, come on, let's, let's be serious here. Like we're, we're humans. We're ridiculous. Yeah, we are. We are absolutely. And before I do the final wrap up with the credits here, credits, listen to me, like, I'm going to roll credits. I don't know why the hell I said that. Real quick big baby. Let's think big. Let's think big credits are coming. I want to, I want to ask you your favorite episode of shits Creek. Do you have one or is it everything? Can you pinpoint one? I'm just curious. You know, I think, I don't know if I have, I think there's, there's some of it right at the beginning when the realizing like how, you know, how far, how far can you fall all that kind of stuff. But I think that ensemble cast and how they work together, I think they just brought, brought it all to, you know, to just such joy. I would hate to say that, you know, some people might say, Oh, they love the wedding. They love what, but then we knew this, this show was ending. So maybe it had to be an early, like early episode because then we knew there was like more to come and they weren't going to like stop this thing. But, you know, if you choose the wedding or, you know, David's wedding or one of those ones near the end, you know it's getting close to the final. And, you know, I never wanted that one to end because it was just, I mean, I wanted them to get out of the motel, but not really. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I could see, I will say, I love a comedy that can make you laugh, but it's tender as well and makes you cry. And that's why I don't know if you ever watch ghosts, the UK version of that show, which I absolutely adore because I think they're incredible at that at like making you laugh, but also having such a tenderness to the show. So the wedding for me is because of the sentimentality of it, but I will say I love the episode where they do cabaret my favorite moment with Catherine O'Hare is giving the pep talk to the character Stevie. It's just, again, it's, and it's not her being ridiculous at all, just being what I see is like real and just supportive and just a beautiful scene. Yeah, that was my favorite. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Kelly, for your time. Go Canada, go apologizing. Go sorry. So sorry, yeah. Sorry, sorry. I do want to thank you so much and shout out to Marty. I have to buy him another cup of coffee. He's another one. I love his dry sense of humor, but I want to thank Marty for connecting us and I really do appreciate that. I appreciate your time. And I will absolutely love to have you back in a couple of months when you have time. That would be wonderful. So thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you to my listeners. We're in February and I've got some other, of course, amazing women lined up. I'll be talking to a local entrepreneur here who was on a couple of years back about talking about her intuitive healing and raky. And now she's created. She's an entrepreneur. She has her own business. She's created cookies that are organic. They're gluten free. They're vegetarian because of her child's dietary needs. And she is really doing a great job of being out there in the community and getting the cookies out there where she sells them. I'm going to have her on. I'm going to have some other folks who are in the area that have their own business entrepreneurs. But as you know each week, I say if you would like to be a guest on this podcast, please reach out to me or if you know a woman that you think, wow, she's really interesting. Make sure she's cool with it first before you reach out. But have her reach out. You can reach out. If you would like to support conversations like this, please reach out to me because I do have a variety of sponsorship packages available that are affordable. So again, thank you so much. And as I say each week, I appreciate you from the bottom of my heart and the bottom of my wine glass.